Dreads
They will not get bogged down e.g. like what they did with the BA dreads.

What does this mean, how will they not get "bogged down"?

Anyone else getting the vibe of 2 different kinds of GKT? Im picturing the regular GKT box (now in plastic) with options to make the "Templars". After all, if they are some kind of uber GKT they will likely have something that distinguishes them from regular GKT.

Maybe they will be a release all their own, but Im picturing upgrade bits for the new GKT.

I want there to be NFW and SS-armed TDA GK. That'd be cool.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

they havent changed that much in my opinion

*clears throat*

Vanguard.
Sternguard.
Thunderfire Cannons.
Land Speeder Storm.
Land Raider Redeemer.
Librarian Dreads.
Stormraven Gunships.
Sanguinary Guard.
The mother fething Sanguinor.
Psyker Battle Squads.
Leman Russ Eradicator.
Leman Russ Punisher.
Devil Dog.
Bane Wolf.
Colossus (not matter how similar it is to the Bombard, it's still not a Bombard).
Vendetta Gunship
Harpies.
Venomthropes.
Hive Guard.
Pyrovores.
Mawlocs.
Tervigons.
Tyrannofexes.
The Swarmlord (and the changes to the fluff that see Calgar getting munted by the guy, even though in previous fluff Calgar was up in space leading his fleet against Hive Fleet Behemoth)
The Doom of Malan'tai
Parasite of Mortrex
Lone Wolves.
God-damned Thunderwolf Cavalry (and Canis Wolfborn as well).
Wracks*.
Cronos Parasite Engine*.
Razorwing Jetfighters*.
Voidraven Bombers*.


None of these things existed until they were retconned into the fluff (with the exception of the Harpie, but it's description says 'Flying Trygon' and not 'Flying Warrior', so that's open for debate). And these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. GW adds and takes away from the fluff whatever they need to pretty much push new kits. To claim that the fluff is sacred and that once its written it can never be changed is quite simply ignorant. All one needs to do is look at the above list to see how malleable the fluff (and therefore the rules) are. This will happen again with Codex Grey Knights. We already know about the Dreadknight from various reports, and that won't be the last change, we can be assured of that.


*I temper my statements about the Dark Eldar somewhat as they completely redesigned the race from the ground up, something that I'm sure most people feel was necessary.

Those (mostly) are just new units, which is different than realy changing an old unit with lots of fluff.

Gitzbitah wrote:Aren't there already apocalypse formations for Assassin squads?

I'd have thought that, given their insular and secretive nature, that any target that upset the Inquisition enough to summon the Grey Knights would probably already have been targeted for assassination by several Inquisitors. If that means that 3 or 4 Eversors wind up after the same guy at the same time, well, the kill goes to the first one to find him!

Honestly, given the existing fluff, that's much easier to swallow than armies of Grey Knights attacking anything but Daemonworlds or heretical Space Marine chapters.

You send assassins instead of GK because sending in an army of 8ft tall psychic supermen is overplaying your hand just a touch. Also it's often easier to defend against an army than one highly trained, appearance shifting/expert sniper/neural shredding super ninja.

Also I had noticed the Nikaea issue myself recently while looking up info on the Heresy. It seemed counterproductive to outlaw all psykers, as not only would it invalidate astropaths and librarians, but also the Imperium itself! The Emperor feeds on the souls of a thousand specially trained psykers every day to keep the Astronomicon functioning. Without psykers, there are no Black Ships. No Black Ships means no Chorus. No Chorus means no Emperor, which means no Psychic beacon for navigation, which means no more interstellar navigation. How long could the Empire last as individual worlds against the darkness between worlds?

vaatbak wrote:

Those (mostly) are just new units, which is different than realy changing an old unit with lots of fluff.

One word: Lamentors.

BaronIveagh wrote:

vaatbak wrote:

Those (mostly) are just new units, which is different than realy changing an old unit with lots of fluff.

One word: Lamentors.

Touché

H.B.M.C. wrote:

they havent changed that much in my opinion

*clears throat*

Vanguard.
Sternguard.
Thunderfire Cannons.
Land Speeder Storm.
Land Raider Redeemer.
Librarian Dreads.
Stormraven Gunships.
Sanguinary Guard.
The mother fething Sanguinor.
Psyker Battle Squads.
Leman Russ Eradicator.
Leman Russ Punisher.
Devil Dog.
Bane Wolf.
Colossus (not matter how similar it is to the Bombard, it's still not a Bombard).
Vendetta Gunship
Harpies.
Venomthropes.
Hive Guard.
Pyrovores.
Mawlocs.
Tervigons.
Tyrannofexes.
The Swarmlord (and the changes to the fluff that see Calgar getting munted by the guy, even though in previous fluff Calgar was up in space leading his fleet against Hive Fleet Behemoth)
The Doom of Malan'tai
Parasite of Mortrex
Lone Wolves.
God-damned Thunderwolf Cavalry (and Canis Wolfborn as well).
Wracks*.
Cronos Parasite Engine*.
Razorwing Jetfighters*.
Voidraven Bombers*.


None of these things existed until they were retconned into the fluff (with the exception of the Harpie, but it's description says 'Flying Trygon' and not 'Flying Warrior', so that's open for debate). And these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. GW adds and takes away from the fluff whatever they need to pretty much push new kits. To claim that the fluff is sacred and that once its written it can never be changed is quite simply ignorant. All one needs to do is look at the above list to see how malleable the fluff (and therefore the rules) are. This will happen again with Codex Grey Knights. We already know about the Dreadknight from various reports, and that won't be the last change, we can be assured of that.


*I temper my statements about the Dark Eldar somewhat as they completely redesigned the race from the ground up, something that I'm sure most people feel was necessary.

well maybe you need too reread what i posted. i said not much is different (so there is somethings different) and they added somethings. well a lot of things but i think you can scrap the tyranid stuff because acordding too nid fluff they evolve into newer and deadlier speciemens. i do agree with the magnus stuff thats whacked.
and the IG stuff i believe they just invented some new tanks like a lot of nations do first you had the panzer and now the abrahams tank. its just a natrual order too make new tanks and stuff. and if GW didnt add units and dropped units we wouldnt need too buy a lot of models now do we? and we dont need a new codex they lose money and GW go's broke and where left with nothing but what we have and we get bored and stop playing and they world will never know GW excisted and then there is gonna be a huge explosion and tyranids get real and we dodnt know the tactics too beat them o god emperor save our butts. o wait you died also becuase nobody bought space marines which allowed you to buy a golden throne. that thing is F ing expensive

Except for maybe the Thunderfire Cannon and maybe one or two others, all of those units are just extensions of bits of fluff. Even the Thunderwolf Cavalry.

Except that they're not. They're new things slotted into the existing fluff. Added to the history. Made to be as if they were always already there. So few of them are listed as 'new' in the fluff.

And my point stands - the fluff is not sacred, and will be changed as much as GW requires it to be changed to fit with whatever their new vision (or model requirements) are.

Thunderwolves are not new. They've been in the Space Wolf fluff for as long as I can remember.

Space Wolves riding them is new, however.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Except that they're not. They're new things slotted into the existing fluff. Added to the history. Made to be as if they were always already there. So few of them are listed as 'new' in the fluff.

And my point stands - the fluff is not sacred, and will be changed as much as GW requires it to be changed to fit with whatever their new vision (or model requirements) are.

He speaks the truth. Stuff is constanly retconned. Thunderwolf cavalry was introduced "as if it was always there".

GW does mess with the fluff a lot - Ultramarines who are said to be ultrazealous regarding Codex Astartes, yet had the Tyranic War Veterans.

Captain Chenkov was a lot different in 2nd Edition I.G. Codex - none of that "tyrant" stuff he's got going on now. The Librarian Dreadnought. In fact, the Blood Angels changed a lot. It wasn't so much a case of fluff expansion, it was retconning. There was never a Sanguinary Guard, there was no Sanguinor.

So we can't really say that Assassins can't work in groups - previous codex incarnations said that they were used sparingly, but there are rare occasions where they are sent in groups.

Destrado wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Except that they're not. They're new things slotted into the existing fluff. Added to the history. Made to be as if they were always already there. So few of them are listed as 'new' in the fluff.

And my point stands - the fluff is not sacred, and will be changed as much as GW requires it to be changed to fit with whatever their new vision (or model requirements) are.

He speaks the truth. Stuff is constanly retconned. Thunderwolf cavalry was introduced "as if it was always there".

And again:
Thunderwolves have always been a part of Fenrisian lore. The Fenrisian Wolves have pretty much always been described as being "able to grow to the size of Rhino APCs, with fangs and claws able to tear clean through armor". The "Ragnar Blackmane" books from Bill King made mentions of things like that.

The only "retcon" is that they're now being ridden by some of the more savage members of the Wolves.

GW does mess with the fluff a lot - Ultramarines who are said to be ultrazealous regarding Codex Astartes, yet had the Tyranic War Veterans.

Which still actually followed the Codex Astartes. They were members of the other companies, who were elevated to the First Company after the Tyrannic Wars. They use the standard Veteran squad insignias, color signifiers, etc. The only difference is that these particular veterans are highly experienced in fighting one type of enemy, and one type of enemy only.

Is it a petty difference? Yeah. But, still. They were within the Codex Astartes.

Captain Chenkov was a lot different in 2nd Edition I.G. Codex - none of that "tyrant" stuff he's got going on now.

Uh, I'm pretty sure he still was tossing bodies at the problem even back then.

The Librarian Dreadnought. In fact, the Blood Angels changed a lot. It wasn't so much a case of fluff expansion, it was retconning. There was never a Sanguinary Guard, there was no Sanguinor.

Fairly certain there was a "Sanguinary Guard", in the "Honor Guard" units that could accompany Sanguinary Priests and the like.

Librarian Dreadnoughts...ehhhh. We never saw them, but we also never saw anything that didn't suggest they couldn't exist.

So we can't really say that Assassins can't work in groups - previous codex incarnations said that they were used sparingly, but there are rare occasions where they are sent in groups.

Biggest problem I have with the "Assassin Squads" is simply that the Assassins are supposed to be highly trained individuals who work alone. Maybe having more than one type of Assassin on the field should provide some kind of synergistic effect, but they can't operate within the same radius of each other without an "animosity" styled effect?

Like: A Vindicare and Eversor are on the field at the same time. The Vindicare being on the field provides the Eversor with a more "precise" deep strike ability, while the Eversor in turn provides the Vindicare some kind of reroll or more 'precision' shooting ability.

Just spitballing here. That kind of thing is too in depth for GW these days.

Kanluwen wrote:Thunderwolves have always been a part of Fenrisian lore. The Fenrisian Wolves have pretty much always been described as being "able to grow to the size of Rhino APCs, with fangs and claws able to tear clean through armor". The "Ragnar Blackmane" books from Bill King made mentions of things like that.

First off, I know Thunderwolves have been in the fluff since the 2nd edition codex, but they weren't being used as mounts. Clearly some WOW influence there But anyway, that's a very different interpretation, as they never were cavalry. That was the difference.
So we're basically in agreement here.

Which still actually followed the Codex Astartes. They were members of the other companies, who were elevated to the First Company after the Tyrannic Wars. They use the standard Veteran squad insignias, color signifiers, etc. The only difference is that these particular veterans are highly experienced in fighting one type of enemy, and one type of enemy only.

Which I remember reading, was against the core principles of the Codex: over-specialization against one enemy. Not that I can pinpoint the particular place where I've seen it, but it was something of an offense to nearly the rest of the Chapter. Marneus Calgar, however, took no attitude. There was no schism with the Ultras like that before, they were introduced in later and eventually got sort of joined with Death Watch Marines and turned into Sternguard. Sometimes Games Developers needlessly complicate stuff with rules in order to bring the fluff to the battlefield, and this doesn't work too well.

Uh, I'm pretty sure he still was tossing bodies at the problem even back then.

Not like he is now, is fluff was nothing like that. We can consider it was expanded, but nothing before even alluded to this. Not that I think it's bad.

Fairly certain there was a "Sanguinary Guard", in the "Honor Guard" units that could accompany Sanguinary Priests and the like.

Librarian Dreadnoughts...ehhhh. We never saw them, but we also never saw anything that didn't suggest they couldn't exist.

Well... Sanguinary Guard started (probably) when someone used Commander Dante's scheme over normal P.A., but there never was any "Sanguinary Guard" as said. But this is what the discussion is all about; things that weren't there or even alluded to, suddenly are brought into existence, and are made as if they were always there. Though in the S.G.'s case, it's just giving another name to Honour Guard.

In the case of the Assassins, there was precedent (even if it was just the bit about the group sent to kill Abby's Chosen).

Biggest problem I have with the "Assassin Squads" is simply that the Assassins are supposed to be highly trained individuals who work alone. Maybe having more than one type of Assassin on the field should provide some kind of synergistic effect, but they can't operate within the same radius of each other without an "animosity" styled effect?

Like: A Vindicare and Eversor are on the field at the same time. The Vindicare being on the field provides the Eversor with a more "precise" deep strike ability, while the Eversor in turn provides the Vindicare some kind of reroll or more 'precision' shooting ability.

Just spitballing here. That kind of thing is too in depth for GW these days.

Well.. I wouldn't exclude that (I didn't believe Power from Pain would be nearly army-wide rule), but it was there. As for the animosity... I'd bet we're more likely to see this with Inquisitors (the different factions do have a lot of conflicts with each others).

BTW, new avatar - Didn't immediately recognize you.

Destrado wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Thunderwolves have always been a part of Fenrisian lore. The Fenrisian Wolves have pretty much always been described as being "able to grow to the size of Rhino APCs, with fangs and claws able to tear clean through armor". The "Ragnar Blackmane" books from Bill King made mentions of things like that.

First off, I know Thunderwolves have been in the fluff since the 2nd edition codex, but they weren't being used as mounts. Clearly some WOW influence there But anyway, that's a very different interpretation, as they never were cavalry. That was the difference.
So we're basically in agreement here.

I don't know if it's WoW influence or them deciding "Well, let's have Space Wolves with a signature unit! I know...they're barbarians, right? So barbarians ride animals. What do we have in the line-up Smith?"
"Well...they have big honkin' wolves on their homeworld..."
"Smith, you're due a raise! Wolves riding wolves! GENIUS!".

At least that's how I like to imagine it.

Which still actually followed the Codex Astartes. They were members of the other companies, who were elevated to the First Company after the Tyrannic Wars. They use the standard Veteran squad insignias, color signifiers, etc. The only difference is that these particular veterans are highly experienced in fighting one type of enemy, and one type of enemy only.

Which I remember reading, was against the core principles of the Codex: over-specialization against one enemy. Not that I can pinpoint the particular place where I've seen it, but it was something of an offense to nearly the rest of the Chapter. Marneus Calgar, however, took no attitude. There was no schism with the Ultras like that before, they were introduced in later and eventually got sort of joined with Death Watch Marines and turned into Sternguard. Sometimes Games Developers needlessly complicate stuff with rules in order to bring the fluff to the battlefield, and this doesn't work too well.

I don't really remember there being anything about "overspecialization against one enemy", unless it really affects how they perform against another.

In this case, it didn't happen that way. They were the same ol' veterans, just with experience fighting Tyranids.

I do remember there being a blurb later on about them also later on that hinted towards the Tyrannic War Veterans being seconded to other Chapters and the Deathwatch to train Marines to deal with the Tyranid threat.
I think it was in a White Dwarf, but not sure which.

Uh, I'm pretty sure he still was tossing bodies at the problem even back then.

Not like he is now, is fluff was nothing like that. We can consider it was expanded, but nothing before even alluded to this. Not that I think it's bad.

Fairly certain there was a "Sanguinary Guard", in the "Honor Guard" units that could accompany Sanguinary Priests and the like.

Librarian Dreadnoughts...ehhhh. We never saw them, but we also never saw anything that didn't suggest they couldn't exist.

Well... Sanguinary Guard started (probably) when someone used Commander Dante's scheme over normal P.A., but there never was any "Sanguinary Guard" as said. But this is what the discussion is all about; things that weren't there or even alluded to, suddenly are brought into existence, and are made as if they were always there. Though in the S.G.'s case, it's just giving another name to Honour Guard.

Fair enough. I'm still willing to give Sanguinary Guard a bit of a benefit of the doubt, simply because they seem like it was someone taking the idea of an "Honor Guard" unit for a high ranking Blood Angel and then changing it to mirror the way the old Ultramarine Honor Guard squad was set up.

In the case of the Assassins, there was precedent (even if it was just the bit about the group sent to kill Abby's Chosen).

Well yeah, but with the assassins we don't know if it was just a group of them that were, overall, tasked to eliminate them or if they actually cooperated together to bring the Chosen down one at a time.

My bet is on the first, personally. If there's one thing that screams "We are the Imperium of Man!" it's people competing over the dumbest things

Biggest problem I have with the "Assassin Squads" is simply that the Assassins are supposed to be highly trained individuals who work alone. Maybe having more than one type of Assassin on the field should provide some kind of synergistic effect, but they can't operate within the same radius of each other without an "animosity" styled effect?

Like: A Vindicare and Eversor are on the field at the same time. The Vindicare being on the field provides the Eversor with a more "precise" deep strike ability, while the Eversor in turn provides the Vindicare some kind of reroll or more 'precision' shooting ability.

Just spitballing here. That kind of thing is too in depth for GW these days.

Well.. I wouldn't exclude that (I didn't believe Power from Pain would be nearly army-wide rule), but it was there. As for the animosity... I'd bet we're more likely to see this with Inquisitors (the different factions do have a lot of conflicts with each others).

I do like that idea, with radical Inquisitors and non-radical Inquisitors during bigger games with allied players taking issue.

BTW, new avatar - Didn't immediately recognize you.

Yeah, the new Stormtrooper icon for Retribution was too nice to pass up. I changed it from Alith-Anar, then wanted to change it to the Guardsman but Brook already took it

Well, I'm against the Space Wolves' signature unit :p Space Marines riding giant wolves? It's just ridiculous from every level. Rough Riders, I can understand to a point. But this... They already had a lot of unique troops, they didn't need that.

Funniest thing is that they put out what seems to be a good unit (except IMO, concept-wise) and then totally fail to deliver new miniatures for them.

The point about Tyrannic WV... I'll have to look it up.

I really think it's the models that bring it down. The riding part, not so much. I can live with that. It separates them from the Codex Chapters; which let's face it is something the Space Wolves are all about

But if it were me, I probably would have had the Thunderwolves as an attachment to a unit of Wulfen.

The model for Wolfy McWolfy is just terrible. Which sadly detracts even more from a unit that was already dubious.

At least they're not Half-Marine Half-Wolf "Centaurs".


Yet.

(let's just grab a couple of beers and walk out before this gets even more off-topic)

Destrado wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Except that they're not. They're new things slotted into the existing fluff. Added to the history. Made to be as if they were always already there. So few of them are listed as 'new' in the fluff.

And my point stands - the fluff is not sacred, and will be changed as much as GW requires it to be changed to fit with whatever their new vision (or model requirements) are.

He speaks the truth. Stuff is constanly retconned. Thunderwolf cavalry was introduced "as if it was always there".

GW does mess with the fluff a lot - Ultramarines who are said to be ultrazealous regarding Codex Astartes, yet had the Tyranic War Veterans.

Captain Chenkov was a lot different in 2nd Edition I.G. Codex - none of that "tyrant" stuff he's got going on now. The Librarian Dreadnought. In fact, the Blood Angels changed a lot. It wasn't so much a case of fluff expansion, it was retconning. There was never a Sanguinary Guard, there was no Sanguinor.

So we can't really say that Assassins can't work in groups - previous codex incarnations said that they were used sparingly, but there are rare occasions where they are sent in groups.

I'm not saying they don't want to sell models, but it is kind of difficult to add new ideas onto fluff that's stuck in M41. All I'm saying is that if I had to work there making rules, I'd probably do a little bit of the same if I had to.

my problem with multiple assassins is why? why would they send more then 1 assassin too kill an important men? if they didnt believe in the skills of that assassin why would they use him? Thats my motivation behind it

h.b.m.c. i never said fluff was sacred and they do change but thats neccercary see my funny but true explanation in my previous post.

Well what about the ability to field one of each Assassin but link it to a Special Character Inquisitor? It would give a new option to Inquisition-pure armies. It would fit the Strike Force theme.

Make it that the special character is a Lord Inquisitor; whom is usually in situations that require many targets to be taking care of; and that one single Assassin would not be enough.

fatty wrote:my problem with multiple assassins is why? why would they send more then 1 assassin too kill an important men? if they didnt believe in the skills of that assassin why would they use him?

Because there's a difference between confidence and hubris. You send more than one assassin because you believe the job might need more than one assassin.

I find it odd that stormtroopers are only BS3. Guard ST's are bs 4 and they aren't as well trained as inquisition troops. I understand why, since this is the "Grey Knight" codex, not the DH codex. But I am still disappointed.

At a plague marine cost GK's are spammable, but without melta I wonder how good they will be at killing tanks and MC's?

On a positive note, I hope the plastic models are as good as the metals! And it's nice to see assassins get scary again.

Pyriel- wrote:

Dreads
They will not get bogged down e.g. like what they did with the BA dreads.

What does this mean, how will they not get "bogged down"?

e.g. They will have some way to kill thngs is CC not have 2 atack kill two preceed to sit in cc with 15+ guys for the rest of the game

Mr Hyena wrote:Well what about the ability to field one of each Assassin but link it to a Special Character Inquisitor? It would give a new option to Inquisition-pure armies. It would fit the Strike Force theme.

Make it that the special character is a Lord Inquisitor; whom is usually in situations that require many targets to be taking care of; and that one single Assassin would not be enough.

how big is the chance that multipule high importance targets there are on one battle field?

@AlexHolker- you trust that your assassin is trained proparly. and if your not confident in your assassin why send him? when do you need more assassins?

I find it odd that stormtroopers are only BS3. Guard ST's are bs 4 and they aren't as well trained as inquisition troops. I understand why, since this is the "Grey Knight" codex, not the DH codex. But I am still disappointed.

Maybe because they are mindwiped every monday morning and thus the life long training IG stormtroopers receive is not atainable for troops that get mindwiped every time they see action against the daemonic and thus need to relearn everything on a pretty regular basis.

At a plague marine cost GK's are spammable, but without melta I wonder how good they will be at killing tanks and MC's?

If they cant counter everything by themselves (like tanks) becuase their weapon loadouts are to limited then they are not spammable at all.

e.g. They will have some way to kill thngs is CC not have 2 atack kill two preceed to sit in cc with 15+ guys for the rest of the game

Hmm, a dread that can handle being tied up by gaunts, I like that.
I still fear the GK dreads will end up just as worthless as the current ones are, they will probably increase in point cost towards the 170-ish mark and still be as dead when facing a missile launcher guardsman or a monstrous creature like all dreads are.

Are we sure that the 0-3 assassins thing actually relates to the big four and not a group of Death Cult assassins?

how big is the chance that multipule high importance targets there are on one battle field?

Say its a world unbelieveably tainted with chaos; there would be loads of targets wouldn't there?

[Mod Edit - We're on it.]

Guess someone watched one too many a Simpson intro.

Obvious troll is obvious. Mods alerted.

Thats more than obvious...

Since this is happening on every thread, isn't it likely Petelee's account got hacked or something? Especially since I read in another post that he was writing normal posts previously. Well, all the more reason to protect your info.

Or hes Possed by a Daemon and in his last minutes of self control came to a GK thread to get it purged. But i also wear tin foil hats so...

DA's Forever wrote:Or hes Possed by a Daemon and in his last minutes of self control came to a GK thread to get it purged. But i also wear tin foil hats so...

Be careful of saying that out loud: if Lady Gaga reads these threads, she might think it would be a cool new costume. Especially since she makes an appearance in certain other outdated books in our hobby

timetowaste85 wrote:

DA's Forever wrote:Or hes Possed by a Daemon and in his last minutes of self control came to a GK thread to get it purged. But i also wear tin foil hats so...

Be careful of saying that out loud: if Lady Gaga reads these threads, she might think it would be a cool new costume. Especially since she makes an appearance in certain other outdated books in our hobby

Canoness Gaga is a respected member of the order of the slowed uniform!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GK are actually going to be so BAMF, I cannot wait another second. So excited.


Grey Knights, bringing back the grimdark

After a bit of discussion of the quality of Robin Cruddace's rulemaking ability (seeing as most assume he'll be writing the codex), reds8n dropped this:

Assuming it is Mr. Cruddace writing it anyway eh?

Very early rumors had Phil Kelly writing the rules after he finished with Space Wolves...

bhsman wrote:After a bit of discussion of the quality of Robin Cruddace's rulemaking ability (seeing as most assume he'll be writing the codex), reds8n dropped this:

Assuming it is Mr. Cruddace writing it anyway eh?

Very early rumors had Phil Kelly writing the rules after he finished with Space Wolves...

I could only wish. I have a feeling Kelly is probably starting to eye Eldar again.

That wouldn't be so bad, either. I wonder if it'll be someone we haven't heard of, yet. Maybe one of the Fantasy writers will have taken this up.

I'm eagerly awaiting any further leaked images and news... nothing new so far other than the confirmation of the StormRaven.


Grrr.

wolfshadow wrote:I'm eagerly awaiting any further leaked images and news... nothing new so far other than the confirmation of the StormRaven.


Grrr.

Don't worry, the thread will have 15 more pages of garbage to sift through for actual information by the time you get back!

Phill Kelly ya say? Wouldn't that be nice.

But uhh... no. It ain't him either.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Phill Kelly ya say? Wouldn't that be nice.

But uhh... no. It ain't him either.

fair enough...
WHO?!
Nah, I get it, you can't say or your body will be found in a ditch in cornwall tomorrow morning...
anyone good (in your opinion?)

H.B.M.C. wrote:Phill Kelly ya say? Wouldn't that be nice.

But uhh... no. It ain't him either.

Jervis?

I hear Chambers is writing again...

Yeah but for FFG, not for GW.

And it ain't Jervis either. But that's all I'm saying. I can hear the black helicopters starting already...

Chambers would be a god-send. Even if I'm not balacing good/bad in writing terms, he had a lot to do with shaping the 40k universe, but didn't go the biased route of Pete Haines.

I thought he was likeable, and more in touch with the gamers than most Games Developers.

Adam Troke.

Oh yeah, he was also on the studio team, kinda forgot about him. What was he up to again?

I'm hella pumped for this!

So, with terminators being able to be selected as troop choices GK's can form a Deathwing style army?

Tyras wrote:So, with terminators being able to be selected as troop choices GK's can form a Deathwing style army?

You answered your own question, if that even was a question.

Vhalyar wrote:

Tyras wrote:So, with terminators being able to be selected as troop choices GK's can form a Deathwing style army?

You answered your own question, if that even was a question.

I guess it was more of a complaint. Given that the Deathwing and Ravenwing style armies were what really set the Dark Angels apart from codex chapters and now neither are unique (Semi unique for the Ravenwing seeing that the White Scars could do it too). I just hope an updated codex is in the works and something good is in store for the Emperor's First Legion.

With Termi's being able to be selected as Troops is a good representation of their fluff. When GK's are sent out to battle an Daemonic Incursion, they aren't sent out with an entire army's worth. Just a dedicated strike team. Termi's as Troops just represents the GK's sending some of their best into the fray.

I understand where you are coming from in your "complaint", but who gives a dam really. I will just be happy when I get my hands on some new plastic models and a codex fresh from the shipping boxes.

Has anyone thought that maybe its a brand new guy?

I though Robin Cruddace was writing it. Read the rumour somewhere.

Kroothawk wrote:I though Robin Cruddace was writing it. Read the rumour somewhere.

Yeah, but as far as I can tell it's not a rumor from a source, but from a process of elimination.
Ward - Necrons
Kelly - Sisters
Cruddace - ??? Must be him!

Turns out it might not be, if you believe Red.

bhsman wrote:Adam Troke.

Writes for the web team and/or WD. To the best of my knowledge he doesn't write codices or army books any more. As lead writer anyway, I'm sure he, as all the Design Studio do, will have chipped in with ideas and suggestions.

Tyras wrote:
I guess it was more of a complaint. Given that the Deathwing and Ravenwing style armies were what really set the Dark Angels apart from codex chapters and now neither are unique (Semi unique for the Ravenwing seeing that the White Scars could do it too). I just hope an updated codex is in the works and something good is in store for the Emperor's First Legion.

See: Rules for Logan Grimnar

DA Hasn't been the Termi-Troop exclusive army for the past few years, so this would be nothing new. Infact, when its all said and done, I could see BA and Necrons being the only MEQ lists that CAN'T have 2+ Armor troops.

I'm looking forward to having my wolves, my sons and my kabal rip these kids up! At the same time, I have quite the large amount of pity being felt for the Tyranid and Daemons players in my group, but luckily they both have MEQ lists that just got shiny new SSs/Apothacarys/POTMS (DA for Nid player BT for Daemons).

~DAR

Eh BAs can take Sanguinary Guard as troops with Dante if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway, more stuff needs to be leaked...or it just needs to be march so my GW store can get their black box and I can empty my wallet on preorders. I've had money set aside for months for this.

There was also a rumour C.S. Goto is writing it

TBD wrote:There was also a rumour C.S. Goto is writing it

AgeOfEgos wrote:

bhsman wrote:After a bit of discussion of the quality of Robin Cruddace's rulemaking ability (seeing as most assume he'll be writing the codex), reds8n dropped this:

Assuming it is Mr. Cruddace writing it anyway eh?

Very early rumors had Phil Kelly writing the rules after he finished with Space Wolves...

I could only wish. I have a feeling Kelly is probably starting to eye Eldar again.

propably not. jess goodwin said he had sculpeted enough eldar for a while. but he does want too make them but not right now.

fatty wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

bhsman wrote:After a bit of discussion of the quality of Robin Cruddace's rulemaking ability (seeing as most assume he'll be writing the codex), reds8n dropped this:

Assuming it is Mr. Cruddace writing it anyway eh?

Very early rumors had Phil Kelly writing the rules after he finished with Space Wolves...

I could only wish. I have a feeling Kelly is probably starting to eye Eldar again.

propably not. jess goodwin said he had sculpeted enough eldar for a while. but he does want too make them but not right now.

That's a let down. I wonder what assignment Kelly got? Last I read it was;

Cruddace = Grey Knights
Ward = Necrons



Kelly = Tau? Their background/fluff/rules are rubbish imo and Kelly is their star...so maybe he got that assignment (Like the breath of fresh air in the DE)?

Or, like so many rising stars before him, Kelly has been given the green light on some sort of super secret pet project that he kept safe deep within the cockles of his heart. And a year from now, we will all be wondering what it will be like to play the survival horror 40k game- Aspect Warrior. Where you and a band of your friends must defend the craftworld against all threats with your chosen aspect warrior!

Or the murder mystery miniatures game, hybrid! Where your killteam of guardsmen must figure out who among you is actually xenos scum!

For that matter, it may be something even wackier, like Grot Tank- the game where you race your friends to build a tank by balancing and connecting various pieces of scrap while avoiding the watchful (?) eyes of the mek and the ever hungry squigs! Sabotage, salvage, and sneak your way into the cockpit when the machine fires up, preferably while eliminating the competition.

I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned before that Kelly is, supposedly, working on Sisters with Goodwin.

Any ideas on when advance orders are due. (Sorry if I may have missed this)

Most likely middle of March. For Preorders.

wolfshadow wrote:I'm eagerly awaiting any further leaked images and news...

I would figure something popping up soon, say early Feb. Prob not much, but at least a teaser or two. The real goods probably wont be popping up until we are less than 30 days away.

Are releases typically early, mid or late month? I don't recall seeing a specific day, just stated April.

Normally early month.....

Normally, new releases from GW are the first Saturday in the month, then again 2 weeks later.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned before that Kelly is, supposedly, working on Sisters with Goodwin.

Goodwin did say he had some problems with robe sculpting for plastic kits. and they are a great team. and i so want the mamma's back on board in plastic. metal models are way to expensieve man

God, I just want one or two new options for a Inquisition-pure army. Maybe two cool troops. or support.

So it's been 23 days since the last update? Maybe I'm just being a pessimist but what happened to the 'news' aspect of this?

All we've had of late is that the Storm Raven WILL be available and we pretty much knew that already.

wolfshadow wrote:Normally early month.....

I would figure so. April starts quarter 2 in the business world. They will want to release it as early as possible so they can gauge how the rest of the quarter will go.

Just Dave wrote:So it's been 23 days since the last update? Maybe I'm just being a pessimist but what happened to the 'news' aspect of this?

All we've had of late is that the Storm Raven WILL be available and we pretty much knew that already.

Well, I've been cruising the usual sites...just no new information for several days now. I'm assuming the NDA is pretty tight right now.

Looks like we might have spoken too soon, as Blood of Kittens plans to release new rumors in 24 hours:

This is a notice from the group 'Rumors Sweet Little Rumors':

"Check back in with Blood of Kittens in the next 24 hours for some more Grey Knight Rumors..."


To view this group log in and follow the link below:
http://bloodofkittens.com/groups/grey-knight-rumors/

As anyone tracked BoK's rumors on this from start to (now) and noted how much things have changed?

Alpharius wrote:As anyone tracked BoK's rumors on this from start to (now) and noted how much things have changed?

Very little if any between the two posts thus far. Interestingly enough, when I went back to read the second batch Tasty claimed it would be an April release - a little less than a week before the Incoming! email went out.

fatty wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned before that Kelly is, supposedly, working on Sisters with Goodwin.

Goodwin did say he had some problems with robe sculpting for plastic kits. and they are a great team. and i so want the mamma's back on board in plastic. metal models are way to expensieve man

You think they're going to cut us a break on prices just because they are cheaper for them to produce now? Very doubtful.

VoidAngel wrote:

fatty wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned before that Kelly is, supposedly, working on Sisters with Goodwin.

Goodwin did say he had some problems with robe sculpting for plastic kits. and they are a great team. and i so want the mamma's back on board in plastic. metal models are way to expensieve man

You think they're going to cut us a break on prices just because they are cheaper for them to produce now? Very doubtful.

I think he was saying that the Sisters are expensive now; but will be less expensive overall as plastics.

One can hope. I just pray the fix the faith points rules (like...by eliminating them). No pun intended.

bhsman wrote:Looks like we might have spoken too soon, as Blood of Kittens plans to release new rumors in 24 hours:

This is a notice from the group 'Rumors Sweet Little Rumors':

"Check back in with Blood of Kittens in the next 24 hours for some more Grey Knight Rumors..."


To view this group log in and follow the link below:
http://bloodofkittens.com/groups/grey-knight-rumors/

Hey, good catch! As soon as some news breaks I'll update the front and credit BoK.

New rumours hey?

Well, guess it's time to see which ones he got right...

VoidAngel wrote:You think they're going to cut us a break on prices just because they are cheaper for them to produce now? Very doubtful.

There's tons of precedent for GW having lowered prices for plastic versions of formerly metal-only models.

Not recently. Not a single one I can think of (doesn't mean they don't exist - but they couldn't have been very impressive).

Bloodcrushers

VoidAngel wrote:Not recently. Not a single one I can think of (doesn't mean they don't exist - but they couldn't have been very impressive).

Bloodcrushers, White Lions, Boar Boyz, Chaos Knights, O+G Trolls, Killa Kanz, Seekers of Slaanesh, Phoenix Guard, Horrors, etc.

Raveners. Killer Kans.

But for every box of Bloodcrushers, there's a box of Goldswords.

H.B.M.C. wrote:But for every box of Bloodcrushers, there's a box of Goldswords.

Like what? I can't really think of a kit that ended up being more expensive, unless it comes with a ton of options that the metal versions never did - ie, the Venerable Dreadnought kit. And even that was still a couple of bucks cheaper than the old metal version.

VoidAngel wrote:You think they're going to cut us a break on prices just because they are cheaper for them to produce now? Very doubtful.

You underestimate how expensive Battle Sisters are right now. Think $75 for 10. Bring them in line with units like the Dark Eldar Wyches, and you're talking about a 68% reduction.

The dread is good example. What was the cost to produce a metal one vs. plastic? What's the difference in price point? There you go... ;-)

VoidAngel wrote:One can hope. I just pray the fix the faith points rules (like...by eliminating them). No pun intended.

Isn't that what made Sisters unique?

No, it's what made them a broken horror. Un-freakin-beatable and enormously frustrating to play in these parts.

Oh yeah, take Faith points from sisters, so they will just be bunch of space marines with T, S and I 3, no terminators, land speeders or land riders...

Not a thread about Sisters! So please drop it, or take it elsewhere.

The blood soaked kitten folks are about to share some new rumours with us, and I for one am interested to see what they got right.

So how 'bout we all hold ourselves back from screaming about nuns with guns and wait for that instead, ok?

How's Blood of Kittens track record thus far, HBMC?

Lets hope these rumours have pictures or are accurate. Otherwise its nothing exciting.

Pictures! Yes. I really want to know what the Dreadknight looks like. We've been hearing about it for too long - it's time to SEE it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Pictures! Yes. I really want to know what the Dreadknight looks like. We've been hearing about it for too long - it's time to SEE it.

Or at least get a decent idea of what it really is. Rehashed dread or penitent engine or something totally new?

Yeah. Honestly I have no idea how the whole GK monstrous creature thing is going to not look terrible.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Not a thread about Sisters! So please drop it, or take it elsewhere.

The blood soaked kitten folks are about to share some new rumours with us, and I for one am interested to see what they got right.

So how 'bout we all hold ourselves back from screaming about nuns with guns and wait for that instead, ok?

hypocryte you yourself added too the discussion about the cost reduction which is also not a topic thats ment to be here. but you do make a point. and too add too your list STEAMTANK! from 100 euro's to 45 euro's. and greatswords

I think he was talking about the change for Grey Knights from metal and $70 you need 10 guys for a full squad of pa $35 for the 5 man box and another 30 for the blisters to fill it out and $60 for the terminators.

From BoK:

"With the Grey Knights incoming in April (predicted here first). I think it is about time we get some more information out there. Just use your magic mouse to see…

The Grey Knights are getting a new unit or they are getting an upgrade that causes an automatic hit to any enemy model in base-to-base with them. This hit wounds on a 4+ regardless of enemies toughness with normal saves allowed and occurs before ALL attacks (think old mandiblasters), but still adds to combat resolution at the end of combat.

Besides the latest rumor I would like to announce that just like when the Dark Eldar codex release their will be a “codex release party” where you can get a sneak peek at the latest and greatest the GK have to offer as well ask any questions. More details to be announced in the future. In the meantime sign up for the Blood of Kittens Network if you haven’t already (its free and easy) and you get emails when the latest rumors or contests are announced."

Well that was a bit of a dissapointment :(

Agreed on the disappointment. To me, it sounds like a reasonable modification to Holocaust- it hits faster, but it would have to hit fewer models than it does now.

Blood of Kittens reminds me of an episode of "Crossing Over with John Edwards".

"I see a unit...no wait, an upgrade! Er, uh maybe both! And it will do something neat!"

Hey, if I want to be lectured - I'll go stick my head in a meeting or something, OK? It's a discussion, they wander sometimes. Relax, Commissar Vertigo.

Was that the update they were bragging about having; while trying to get people to sign up?

If so...that was a big disappointment.

I was kinda expecting one of those big awesome lists with unit names and rough points values.

well, I appreciate any source that does it's best to provide rumours but this latest thing from BOK sounds like digital weapons which already exist in the current daemonhunters codex. off the top of my head, it works in the same way but attacks at an effective initiative value of +2. And currently only inquisitors are allowed to take them for, I think, 15 points.

so what does this suggest? it either points to inquisitorial units getting a revamp and confirming their presence in the new codex or it means that wargear previously only available to the inquisition are now army wide. Unless it's very expensive wargear, I can't see this being more that someone getting a look at a small part of the wargear section of the new codex and putting it up on the net.

I could see digital weapons being more widely available, but this supposed ability sounds more like holocaust to me.

That was rather GW of BoK, wasn't it?

Alpharius wrote:That was rather GW of BoK, wasn't it?

That is the best way to describe it yes

Updated rumor page thanks to Blood of Kittens.


Regarding the latest rumor, as pointed out on Seer....this could be annoying to large creatures that rely on high T and WS......more than low saves to survive. Big bugs, Wraithlords, DPs, etc will be pretty annoyed to get auto-hit...and wounded on 4+ when they only have a 3+ save to fall back on.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Regarding the latest rumor, as pointed out on Seer....this could be annoying to large creatures that rely on high T and WS......more than low saves to survive. Big bugs, Wraithlords, DPs, etc will be pretty annoyed to get auto-hit...and wounded on 4+ when they only have a 3+ save to fall back on.

Actually, I'd say it's much better against hordes (surely the GK's 2nd largest problem? Other than Mech). a 4+ then a 3+ against a monstrous creature isn't that impressive IMHO, particularly considering it would only be once per turn. In fact, I can't imagine that being at all a problem.

Against hordes and some of the more fragile dedicated assault troops (particularly high initiative) such as Banshees, Wyches, Genestealers etc. it could prove to be very nasty however...

Just Dave wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:Regarding the latest rumor, as pointed out on Seer....this could be annoying to large creatures that rely on high T and WS......more than low saves to survive. Big bugs, Wraithlords, DPs, etc will be pretty annoyed to get auto-hit...and wounded on 4+ when they only have a 3+ save to fall back on.

Actually, I'd say it's much better against hordes (surely the GK's 2nd largest problem? Other than Mech). a 4+ then a 3+ against a monstrous creature isn't that impressive IMHO, particularly considering it would only be once per turn. In fact, I can't imagine that being at all a problem.

Against hordes and some of the more fragile dedicated assault troops (particularly high initiative) such as Banshees, Wyches, Genestealers etc. it could prove to be very nasty however...

*Shrug*, 10 GKs will only kill...what 4ish Orcs with that upgrade? 4 removed from the rear...by way of comparison, they would wound a Wraithlord 2ish times....

If I was a wraithlord/carnifex, I would much more hate plasma weapons compared to these things...htis on 3's, wounds on 4's/5's (IIRC) and no armour saves.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Regarding the latest rumor, as pointed out on Seer....this could be annoying to large creatures that rely on high T and WS......more than low saves to survive. Big bugs, Wraithlords, DPs, etc will be pretty annoyed to get auto-hit...and wounded on 4+ when they only have a 3+ save to fall back on.

Don't all recent armies have special rules to squat Tyranid monsters on the fly? Seems pretty standard nowadays

shrike wrote:If I was a wraithlord/carnifex, I would much more hate plasma weapons compared to these things...htis on 3's, wounds on 4's/5's (IIRC) and no armour saves.

Yeah....and they would fear Str. 10 Force Weapons even more...but that doesn't take away from a plasma gun though....just like a plasma gun doesn't take away from this power/ability .

So whats the latest rumour from Blood of Kittens? the OP doesn't really point it out.

I can neither confirm nor deny the latest rumour because... it's so very vague.

The vaguer you are, the more likely your guess source is right!

I am not sure the baby cats who are covered in their own blood, as all cats should be, can be trusted.

Sure, id love even a psychic power to be like that, itd be awesome if it stacked too, like if your in BTB with 2 GK you take double the hits, but its just not credible. and its so very vague, and they hyped it so much. I smell the smell of suspicious doings.

Jaon wrote:I am not sure the baby cats who are covered in their own blood, as all cats should be

hey no cruelty towards animal's as an animale care taker i cant allow it!
but if you want to be cruel to something take a french canadian or French bloke they dont mind they speak french

hey no cruelty towards animal's as an animale care taker i cant allow it!
but if you want to be cruel to something take a french canadian or French bloke they dont mind they speak french

lol Best post so far this decade

Blood of kittens is a decent site but by jupiter what a gakky name. It rather stinks of attentionwhoring.
I mean they could change the "kittens" part to somehting more suitable to be cruel towards like uh, I dont know, PLEASE DON'T SAY NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT EVERYONE FROM ANY GIVEN COUNTRY?

Please don't post thngs like this. Thank you.

And the thread takes a turn for the worse...

No Inquisitoral stormtroopers?! Why?! :(
They were the only reason I was thnking about playing GK!

This thread is in serious jeopardy now - STAY on topic or it gets closed up, and the people who cause it to be closed by ignoring this warning receive the appropriate discipline.

Thanks!

loner wrote:No Inquisitoral stormtroopers?! Why?! :(
They were the only reason I was thnking about playing GK!

I don't think they've been confirmed or denied. There's really fethall for concrete rumors on GK aside from "Coming in April" and with "plastic kits because that's the norm."

sorry :(
but with the lack of updates we are forced too rely on cheesy comments.

on what can we speculate some more? who will design the models? i hope Juan hiss latest skave models are so smooth.

Well, the plot thickens. According to Katie Drake on Heresy;

We're getting closer to release, so I'll talk about what I heard.

The power mentioned is (I think) the new Holocaust. How I was told that it works is as follows:

Lets say we have a unit of 20 Gaunts charging some Grey Knights. One of the Knights has the Holocaust power. After assault moves are done but before attacks are resolved, the Grey Knight passes his psychic test to use Holocaust. Each model in the enemy unit is hit once by an attack that always wounds on a 4+ and allows normal armor saves.

What that basically means is that before anyone gets to swing, the Knights can blow through half of a unit that has a poor armor save. In the above example, we're looking at 9 dead Gaunts most likely - and that's before the Knights attack.

That's much more powerful against hordes! Imagine Ork Boyz....13ish dead before anything happens? Yikes.


Even more info from Katie;

Ha, I didn't mean to open myself up to questions, but what the hell.

Yeah, I've heard stuff about Hammerhand. Basically, it's cast in the assault phase, and the casting unit gains +1S until the end of the turn which is awfully nice when everyone's packing a force weapon.

what they are downgrading hammerhand? i doubt that.

plus what that Katty said is already said

Wonder how GW will solve the force weapon-in-squads mechanics.
They are after all supposed to simple down the games and rules.

Imagine 10 knights with 2 attacks each whacking away at an enemy squad that consists of multi wound creatures.
For example 10 GKs charge 10 DE grotesques.
Lets say they make 8 wounds on the grotesques.

1: Now how do we know what knight makes what wound, for all we know only 4 knights could make those 8 wounds.
2: How will the instant death rolls be solved, will GW allow the GK player to roll the same amount of Ld tests as the amount of wounds the squad made?
3: Will it only be one force weapon Ld test for the justicar?

I mean force weapon squads will bog down the game with heaps of rolls etc if the weapons are supposed to work like individual force weapons.

Also what is the differance between PAGKs and TAGKs if now PAGKs get 2+ armour saves. Even if they retain their 3+ saves the weapon loadout is exactly the same and only thing differeing the squads apart is one armour save, they both have force weapons.

Oddly enough, no one has been able to confirm if the new GK will be silver. Maybe they will be pink. Who knows?

And I think BoK has been pretty par for the course when it comes to rumors.

Pyriel- wrote:Also what is the differance between PAGKs and TAGKs if now PAGKs get 2+ armour saves.

A 5+ Ward Save for the TAGK?

Pyriel- wrote:Wonder how GW will solve the force weapon-in-squads mechanics.
They are after all supposed to simple down the games and rules.

Imagine 10 knights with 2 attacks each whacking away at an enemy squad that consists of multi wound creatures.
For example 10 GKs charge 10 DE grotesques.
Lets say they make 8 wounds on the grotesques.

1: Now how do we know what knight makes what wound, for all we know only 4 knights could make those 8 wounds.
2: How will the instant death rolls be solved, will GW allow the GK player to roll the same amount of Ld tests as the amount of wounds the squad made?
3: Will it only be one force weapon Ld test for the justicar?

I mean force weapon squads will bog down the game with heaps of rolls etc if the weapons are supposed to work like individual force weapons.

Also what is the differance between PAGKs and TAGKs if now PAGKs get 2+ armour saves. Even if they retain their 3+ saves the weapon loadout is exactly the same and only thing differeing the squads apart is one armour save, they both have force weapons.

Last question first: Termies have a 5+ Inv save apart from the 2+ AS. Artificer armor is only 2+.

An earlier rumor suggested that on the FW front the unit would roll one LD test. If it went off, they worked as FW, if not they didn't (and possibly a Perils test?). As for how it will work against units of multi wound models, does this not already come up? Are there not instances of multiple powerfists/high strength attacks striking multiwound units? What happens when Autocannons or AC's or Ion Cannons hit T3 multiwound units? I don't see the answer to these questions being much different to the one you posed.

also terminators gain relentless

but can't sweeping advance.

So going to collect new grey knights.

Wonder how GW will translate "Holocaust power" into German

I actually lol'ed. Very well played Kroot!

reading germans, then holocaust, then justdave's post count of 1939...

So, anything about Inquisitorial Stormtroopers or the Inquisition side? I haven't heard the blood of kittens rumours as they havent been posted in this thread.

AgeOfEgos wrote:
*Shrug*, 10 GKs will only kill...what 4ish Orcs with that upgrade? 4 removed from the rear...

That right there is one of the higher on the list of my many issues with 40k rules. My sword, fist, etc didnt hit the guy at the back of the horde...it hit the one right in front of me. That the one that should be removed. Period.

The whole game is a bit of an abstraction though.

It isn't a 'true' skirmish ruleset, so you have to take the good with the bad... and the fuzzy and blurry...

Kroothawk wrote:Wonder how GW will translate "Holocaust power" into German

how have they for the past 10 years? the power exists in the current codex and i thought there was a german version of it...

warboss wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Wonder how GW will translate "Holocaust power" into German

how have they for the past 10 years? the power exists in the current codex and i thought there was a german version of it...

"Inferno" ?
Could be wrong.

warboss wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Wonder how GW will translate "Holocaust power" into German

how have they for the past 10 years? the power exists in the current codex and i thought there was a german version of it...

I think it was more a joke than anything . . . i know right . . . a German with a sense of humor, lol.








JK Kroothawk

Happygrunt wrote:Oddly enough, no one has been able to confirm if the new GK will be silver. Maybe they will be pink. Who knows?

There was a picture of a Stormraven painted in Grey Knight colors (even down to the black, white, and red heraldry on the side much like their Land Raiders) that I posted earlier in the thread if you don't mind delving into my post history. Looks like they'll be keeping the silvery paint scheme.

Kroothawk wrote:Wonder how GW will translate "Holocaust power" into German

The word 'Holocaust' isn't a German one, so it probably stayed the same? If you access the German website for the Daemonhunters .pdf you can probably check for yourself.

bhsman wrote:

The word 'Holocaust' isn't a German one, so it probably stayed the same? If you access the German website for the Daemonhunters .pdf you can probably check for yourself.

I think he was referring to the hypersensitivity to the subject that most Germans display. When I was in Germany, I had two different people apologize for the actions of their country in WW2. It was somewhat surreal.

Mr Hyena wrote:So, anything about Inquisitorial Stormtroopers or the Inquisition side? I haven't heard the blood of kittens rumours as they havent been posted in this thread.

Apparently they've dropped to BS3. O.o

Kroothawk wrote:Wonder how GW will translate "Holocaust power" into German

Roughly, "Power-that-kills-a-great-many-but-has-nothing-to-do-with-historical-events-or-our-national-identity-and-really-almost-all-those-responsible-are-dead-and-we-modern-Germans-aren't-them-anymore-than-you-Americans-are-slave-owners-so-let's-alls-remember-our-predecessor's-mistakes-but-not-dwell-on-them-eh?"

I think - but my German was never that good. I may be a word or two off.

VoidAngel wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Wonder how GW will translate "Holocaust power" into German

Roughly, "Power-that-kills-a-great-many-but-has-nothing-to-do-with-historical-events-or-our-national-identity-and-really-almost-all-those-responsible-are-dead-and-we-modern-Germans-aren't-them-anymore-than-you-Americans-are-slave-owners-so-let's-alls-remember-our-predecessor's-mistakes-but-not-dwell-on-them-eh?"

I think - but my German was never that good. I may be a word or two off.

I would be forced to buy the army just to use that power.

Anavrin wrote:

VoidAngel wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Wonder how GW will translate "Holocaust power" into German

Roughly, "Power-that-kills-a-great-many-but-has-nothing-to-do-with-historical-events-or-our-national-identity-and-really-almost-all-those-responsible-are-dead-and-we-modern-Germans-aren't-them-anymore-than-you-Americans-are-slave-owners-so-let's-alls-remember-our-predecessor's-mistakes-but-not-dwell-on-them-eh?"

I think - but my German was never that good. I may be a word or two off.

I would be forced to buy the army just to use that power.

I would get a 2000 point army, and every single unit would have the power. And I would use its full title every time I said it.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

bhsman wrote:

The word 'Holocaust' isn't a German one, so it probably stayed the same? If you access the German website for the Daemonhunters .pdf you can probably check for yourself.

I think he was referring to the hypersensitivity to the subject that most Germans display. When I was in Germany, I had two different people apologize for the actions of their country in WW2. It was somewhat surreal.

i don't know if its really hypersensitivity when some of the victims as well as perpetrators are still alive regarding an event as widespread and evil as the holocaust. we're not talking about some slaughter of barbarian villagers during the pax romana; the event is still a part of the living memory of millions.

As it rightly should be. However, it should not shape the lives of the innocent; at least not past understanding what happened well enough to make sure it can't again.

Quick rundown of psychic powers in DH:

- Verbannung
- Dämonenbann
- Hammerfaust
- Inferno
- Bannkreis
- Vernichtung
- Wort des Imperators

Only Heroes of the GK could choose, GKT squads could have Inferno.

Go pick your "holocaust".

I'd like to see every GK having access to psychic powers.
And I'd welcome a change from "template" powers to hit the whole enemy unit.Without a possible backlash..


Just remember: indoctrinating people and wondering when it gets "surreal" ...... some actions come right back to you.

I have 3 swquads of 9 stormtroops in rhionos. I hope I can still use them in some way, I dont want to have to repaint them so they fit in with my guard army. I left 1 space per squad to include a sergeant with each if I ever needed to include them with my guard

I am really doubting ISTs are 100% gone. Sure theres a chance the whole codex has simply gone power armor, but surely they would leave some unpowerarmoured humans in there?

1hadhq wrote:Go pick your "holocaust".

I'd rather pass, thank you!

Back on topic: Rumours said that there are IST somewhere in the Codex, even if only with a special character or as special retinue.

Yeah. To play a non-GK army you will require a Special Char.

i am really getting anoyed by GW that if you want too play a style you will have too get a SC. but i doubt the storm troppers will be out the list. where highly specialiset and low in numbers but hey i found this complete army.

I agree, I'd also rather there was less emphasis on SC's.

However, we still don't actually know if this will be the case with the Grey Knight Codex. We have no real evidence...

Almost every Codex since the Dark Angels has included special chars that shape your army. Why would the GK Codex be any different?

Stormies will only be fieldable as an army via unlocking. Mark my words.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Almost every Codex since the Dark Angels has included special chars that shape your army. Why would the GK Codex be any different?

Stormies will only be fieldable as an army via unlocking. Mark my words.

I'm not denying this, not at all.

However, I don't feel you should start 'complaining' about Special Characters restricting such and such within the GK Codex until you have actual evidence.
Particularly as, for example, you may have someone come along, see someone on the internet() say that Storm Troopers WILL require a special character then claim the world is going to end and whatnot.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, but it's not a case of they WILL. It's a case of I THINK they will.

I know, I know, it's just semantics, but I don't feel it's right to pass judgement without any 'evidence' per se.


Personally, for what it's worth, I feel that they will require a Inquisitor HQ choice, but not a special character.

Not really sure what the problem with special characters is to be honest.

I'm sure there'd be precisely the same amount of complaints if they weren't available at all.

Personally, for me I don't mind Storm Troopers for example requiring an Inquisitor Lord to have as troops.
However, I WOULD NOT like a special character to force me into such a case. Special Characters in these cases can almost force the player to field them and therefore limit the personal aspect of their army as it were...

I've not explained it very well I admit, but I think the Space Marine Biker Captain is a much better mechanic than having to take, for example, Sammael.

I think requiring a Special Character is fine for some of the more 'off the wall' builds, such as all Wolf Guard, or scoring Stern-guard.
But for something as fundamental as Storm Troopers, I'd say it's a bit much.

Obviously that's just my personal opinion and speculation too.

Marked.

GK codex follows the design of 5th ed codices. Why should it be different?

The only confirmed kit is the StormRaven.
The name seems to imply its a Grey Knights codex.
The Inquisition moves back into the shadows....

Mr Mystery wrote:Not really sure what the problem with special characters is to be honest.

I'm sure there'd be precisely the same amount of complaints if they weren't available at all.

You're really good at missing the mark and once again have jumped into debate against something no one has actually said. No one has said Special Chars shouldn't be available, so please get a clue the next time you try and post something like this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just Dave wrote:However, I don't feel you should start 'complaining' about Special Characters restricting such and such within the GK Codex until you have actual evidence.

...

Personally, for what it's worth, I feel that they will require a Inquisitor HQ choice, but not a special character.

Just because you don't have evidence does not mean that I don't have evidence. Remember that.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Just Dave wrote:However, I don't feel you should start 'complaining' about Special Characters restricting such and such within the GK Codex until you have actual evidence.

...

Personally, for what it's worth, I feel that they will require a Inquisitor HQ choice, but not a special character.

Just because you don't have evidence does not mean that I don't have evidence. Remember that.

If you have evidence then it's a perfectly reasonable criticism. Admittedly, you still haven't done more than imply that you do have evidence...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:Not really sure what the problem with special characters is to be honest.

I'm sure there'd be precisely the same amount of complaints if they weren't available at all.

You're really good at missing the mark and once again have jumped into debate against something no one has actually said. No one has said Special Chars shouldn't be available, so please get a clue the next time you try and post something like this.

I think Mr.M meant if ISTs weren't available, not SCs.

No, I'm fairly sure he's talking about Special Characters.

Anyway... part of the problem is that many people don't like fielding SC's to unlock certain elements because you're then 'forced' into whatever advantages/disadvantages/wargear/etc. of that SC to be able to play the army you want to play.

A better example is from the SM Codex.

You want to field bikes as troops?

Just field a SM Captain on a bike! Arm him however you want, you're good to go!

If you had to field a SC to do that, it would be much more limiting, restrictive, etc.

This is even MORE so if you have to field a SC in order to 'unlock' Stormtroopers as troops - something many of us have from the last codex.

But, as Just Dave mentioned, we don't know this sure.

Odds are it will be the case, but, who knows?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:Not really sure what the problem with special characters is to be honest.

I'm sure there'd be precisely the same amount of complaints if they weren't available at all.

You're really good at missing the mark and once again have jumped into debate against something no one has actually said. No one has said Special Chars shouldn't be available, so please get a clue the next time you try and post something like this.

You're really good at missing the mark and once again have jumped into debate against something no one has actually said , so please get a clue the next time you try and post something like this. too say it with your own words he didnt talked about the Gk SC but he asked what my problem was against SC. [Mod Edit - Please, no.]

and mr Mystery my problem against SC is that is want to make my ow character and play a perticualar force and not being forced too use a sc just because i want too field a full terminator army. so i dont have a problem with sc but the rules they are given in order for me too field a special army

Last question first: Termies have a 5+ Inv save apart from the 2+ AS. Artificer armor is only 2+.

An earlier rumor suggested that on the FW front the unit would roll one LD test. If it went off, they worked as FW, if not they didn't (and possibly a Perils test?). As for how it will work against units of multi wound models, does this not already come up? Are there not instances of multiple powerfists/high strength attacks striking multiwound units? What happens when Autocannons or AC's or Ion Cannons hit T3 multiwound units? I don't see the answer to these questions being much different to the one you posed.

So why exactly will I ever want to pay 20-ish points more per model just for the added 5+ inv save?

And a S10 weapon wounding multi wound models doesnt work like a force weapon.
If a S10 weapon causes 8 wounds on a grotesque squad then 8 models are removed, simple as that.

What if a force weapon wielding squad causes 8 wounds on a grotesque squad, should there be 8 separate Ld rolls for the force weapon effect per wound? One Ld test for all or will the squad simply instantkill one measly model?

The best way to make it fair for those who want to play Demon Hunters will be to make Inquisitorial Stormtroopers require an Inquisitor or Inquisitor Lord.

Fair and simple and you aren't as locked into one army as a SC would do.

fatty wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:Not really sure what the problem with special characters is to be honest.

I'm sure there'd be precisely the same amount of complaints if they weren't available at all.

You're really good at missing the mark and once again have jumped into debate against something no one has actually said. No one has said Special Chars shouldn't be available, so please get a clue the next time you try and post something like this.

You're really good at missing the mark and once again have jumped into debate against something no one has actually said , so please get a clue the next time you try and post something like this. too say it with your own words he didnt talked about the Gk SC but he asked what my problem was against SC.

and mr Mystery my problem against SC is that is want to make my ow character and play a perticualar force and not being forced too use a sc just because i want too field a full terminator army. so i dont have a problem with sc but the rules they are given in order for me too field a special army

Mr Hyena wrote:The best way to make it fair for those who want to play Demon Hunters will be to make Inquisitorial Stormtroopers require an Inquisitor or Inquisitor Lord.

Fair and simple and you aren't as locked into one army as a SC would do.

This, it also makes more sense from a fluff standpoint. I imagine they'll be elites, and an inq. makes them either troops or scoring.

S_P

I don't really mind the special character thing anymore.

I suspect it will become more and more normal as the years/codex releases go on.

fatty wrote:You're really good at missing the mark and once again have jumped into debate against something no one has actually said , so please get a clue the next time you try and post something like this. too say it with your own words he didnt talked about the Gk SC but he asked what my problem was against SC. [Mod Edit - Please, no.]

and mr Mystery my problem against SC is that is want to make my ow character and play a perticualar force and not being forced too use a sc just because i want too field a full terminator army. so i dont have a problem with sc but the rules they are given in order for me too field a special army

I love how you can tell where you've copypasta'd my words and where you've typed your own, because you don't seem to know where the shift key on your keyboard is.

warboss wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

bhsman wrote:

The word 'Holocaust' isn't a German one, so it probably stayed the same? If you access the German website for the Daemonhunters .pdf you can probably check for yourself.

I think he was referring to the hypersensitivity to the subject that most Germans display. When I was in Germany, I had two different people apologize for the actions of their country in WW2. It was somewhat surreal.

i don't know if its really hypersensitivity when some of the victims as well as perpetrators are still alive regarding an event as widespread and evil as the holocaust. we're not talking about some slaughter of barbarian villagers during the pax romana; the event is still a part of the living memory of millions.

And one that neo-nazi groups around the world look to for inspiration and would do again if they could.

It's far from dead history.

If there were skinhead gangs modeling themselves on Roman Legions and looking to put the Hun to a sword we might look at Roman history differently too.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
If there were skinhead gangs modeling themselves on Roman Legions and looking to put the Hun to a sword we might look at Roman history differently too.

Hrm...

Pyriel- wrote:

Last question first: Termies have a 5+ Inv save apart from the 2+ AS. Artificer armor is only 2+.

An earlier rumor suggested that on the FW front the unit would roll one LD test. If it went off, they worked as FW, if not they didn't (and possibly a Perils test?). As for how it will work against units of multi wound models, does this not already come up? Are there not instances of multiple powerfists/high strength attacks striking multiwound units? What happens when Autocannons or AC's or Ion Cannons hit T3 multiwound units? I don't see the answer to these questions being much different to the one you posed.

So why exactly will I ever want to pay 20-ish points more per model just for the added 5+ inv save?

And a S10 weapon wounding multi wound models doesnt work like a force weapon.
If a S10 weapon causes 8 wounds on a grotesque squad then 8 models are removed, simple as that.

What if a force weapon wielding squad causes 8 wounds on a grotesque squad, should there be 8 separate Ld rolls for the force weapon effect per wound? One Ld test for all or will the squad simply instantkill one measly model?

As to the first matter, well I would say you are largely correct, though the exact nature of wargear and points comparisons has yet to be seen, so I will with hold judgment on that matter until the book comes out.

And is instakill really so different in effect from forceweapons that they would not remove models in exactly the same fashion?

Your third question was answered. An early rumor believes that the unit makes one LD test, and if passed, all attacks in the unit will act as FW.

Alpharius wrote:No, I'm fairly sure he's talking about Special Characters.

Anyway... part of the problem is that many people don't like fielding SC's to unlock certain elements because you're then 'forced' into whatever advantages/disadvantages/wargear/etc. of that SC to be able to play the army you want to play.

Yeah, but at the same time it's a way to impose a bit of "balance" that might otherwise not be possible with these variant lists, don't you think? If I could take a Commander in Terminator Armor and a Captain with a Jump Pack to unlock Jump and Terminators as Troops, don't you think that might be a bit excessive?

By tying them with special characters, who have a fixed points cost and fixed equipment, you can at least control what is unlocking those things as Troops and affecting the army-wide special rules, etc.

A better example is from the SM Codex.

You want to field bikes as troops?
Just field a SM Captain on a bike! Arm him however you want, you're good to go!

I've yet to understand why the bloody SM book can do this, but not the Dark Angels. But that's neither here nor there.

If it were me writing the Codex for Grey Knights?
Taking a group of 'standard' Inquisitors as an Elite choice 'unlocks' 1-4 Inquisitorial Stormtrooper units as Troops. Standard Stormtrooper stats and armament applies, as does the points cost.
But if you take an Inquisitor Lord(including any potential Inquisitor Lord special characters) as an HQ choice, he further allows for you to upgrade those Stormtroopers to 'Veteran Inquisitorial Stormtroopers' allowing for some nastier weaponry and skills at a minor points bump.

Although, frankly, I'd do something similar for every Codex where you get benefits for taking 'themed' armies and things of that nature.

If you had to field a SC to do that, it would be much more limiting, restrictive, etc.
This is even MORE so if you have to field a SC in order to 'unlock' Stormtroopers as troops - something many of us have from the last codex.
But, as Just Dave mentioned, we don't know this sure.
Odds are it will be the case, but, who knows?

Bleh. The Daemonhunters/Witchhunters Codices were just a mess in how everything was slammed together. The only real 'restriction' we saw was that an army with Daemonhosts couldn't take Grey Knights, but could still take pretty much every other nasty bit of the army and then added in Space Marine support.

But that just goes back to the whole "where does the Inquisition really belong?" aspect that I've harped on over and over again. They're trying to strike a balance between the Inquisition and the Grey Knights and likely they'll miss that balance and overcompensate in trying to lock out the Inquisition and block some of the nastier combos that we used to see.

warboss wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

bhsman wrote:

The word 'Holocaust' isn't a German one, so it probably stayed the same? If you access the German website for the Daemonhunters .pdf you can probably check for yourself.

I think he was referring to the hypersensitivity to the subject that most Germans display. When I was in Germany, I had two different people apologize for the actions of their country in WW2. It was somewhat surreal.

i don't know if its really hypersensitivity when some of the victims as well as perpetrators are still alive regarding an event as widespread and evil as the holocaust. we're not talking about some slaughter of barbarian villagers during the pax romana; the event is still a part of the living memory of millions.

I certainly wasn't belittling the holocaust, however nor do I feel I need an apology from Germans born in the 1970s for the actions of their earlier countrymen. Anyways....back to our regularly scheduled rumors...

If it were me writing the Codex for Grey Knights?
Taking a group of 'standard' Inquisitors as an Elite choice 'unlocks' 1-4 Inquisitorial Stormtrooper units as Troops. Standard Stormtrooper stats and armament applies, as does the points cost.
But if you take an Inquisitor Lord(including any potential Inquisitor Lord special characters) as an HQ choice, he further allows for you to upgrade those Stormtroopers to 'Veteran Inquisitorial Stormtroopers' allowing for some nastier weaponry and skills at a minor points bump.

This seems the fairest to me; as long as the SC isn't too costly.

Just Dave wrote:Personally, for me I don't mind Storm Troopers for example requiring an Inquisitor Lord to have as troops.
However, I WOULD NOT like a special character to force me into such a case. Special Characters in these cases can almost force the player to field them and therefore limit the personal aspect of their army as it were...

I've not explained it very well I admit, but I think the Space Marine Biker Captain is a much better mechanic than having to take, for example, Sammael.

I think requiring a Special Character is fine for some of the more 'off the wall' builds, such as all Wolf Guard, or scoring Stern-guard.
But for something as fundamental as Storm Troopers, I'd say it's a bit much.

Obviously that's just my personal opinion and speculation too.

One of the problems I've noticed has been that GW has been creating codexes for very specific chapters and armies, for example the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and recently the Grey Knights. It doesn't allow the openness and creativity of a generalized codex like Codex: (C)SM, or Codex: Dark Eldar, it wants you to be a part of something that's already there, rather than create your own.

I do think that IF it did require a Special Character to make Stormies troops, that wouldn't make much sense or actually fit that well with GW's apparent design ethos.

I mean, Special Characters typically (except for the DA, but admittedly, they're an old Codex) allow certain units to be taken as troops to allow more 'off the wall' or unique armies; no special character that I can recall (baring DA, again) has restricted such a fundemental part of the army.
For example, Dante allows Sanguinary Guard to be taken as troops, then there's Logan/Wolf Guard, Canis/Fenrisian Wolves, Baron/Helions, Pedro/Sternguard... All these aren't conventional builds and as such it's KIND OF fitting that it requires a special character.

However, Storm Troopers were such an extensive and core part of many peoples Daemon Hunter armies, that it wouldn't make sense for it to require a special character. Requiring an Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord I could understand and agree with, but I don't think a Special Character is fair or fitting with their current methodology.

Of course, we don't know anything for sure yet...

Maybe the SC will unlock new Inquisitorial elite forces? I mean, they must have more than Stormtroopers, Rhinos and Chimeras.

What would people think on an SC that unlocks an Inquisitorial Leman Russ and one that unlocks an Inquisitorial Predator? or possibly a completely new tank? It could be possible since it was rumoured that there was alot of SC characters in this right? I'd like to see something like this. They can keep Storms an open force. I cant see reason in restricting them. They're hardly broken.

I would assume that what we'll be seeing in terms of vehicles, we've seen in IA7.

Razorbacks, with the option to take Psycannons.
Rhinos, Chimeras, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and we'll probably see the Valkyrie/Vendetta and the Stormraven. Of course.

I see little premise for the introduction of psycannon razorbacks or the GKLR:R into regular rules.

However I am looking forward to having the option for all forms of the LR, though now that I think about it, the main reason I ever did take LR was for the Crusader simply so I could assault into cover (which will of course be sovled by all PAGK gaining frag grenades and possibly Termies...but I am somewhat skeptical of the idea still).

It would be nice to have psycannon razorbacks, but I simply don't see GW going out of their way to produce a psycannon/incinerator upgrade sprue for the Razorback/Land Raider, given that a GK Redeemer is capable of ripping marines apart on a 2+ as well as anything with a 3+ save or worse.

One thing that would point me to Psycannons/Flamestorm Incinerators for GK vehicles would have been Psycannons in the Storm Raven kit, but alas...

Ehsteve wrote:I see little premise for the introduction of psycannon razorbacks or the GKLR:R into regular rules.

However I am looking forward to having the option for all forms of the LR, though now that I think about it, the main reason I ever did take LR was for the Crusader simply so I could assault into cover (which will of course be sovled by all PAGK gaining frag grenades and possibly Termies...but I am somewhat skeptical of the idea still).

It would be nice to have psycannon razorbacks, but I simply don't see GW going out of their way to produce a psycannon/incinerator upgrade sprue for the Razorback/Land Raider, given that a GK Redeemer is capable of ripping marines apart on a 2+ as well as anything with a 3+ save or worse.

One thing that would point me to Psycannons/Flamestorm Incinerators for GK vehicles would have been Psycannons in the Storm Raven kit, but alas...

I hate to break it to you, but just because there's no Psycannon or Incinerator in the Stormraven kit doesn't mean there won't be Psycannon Razorbacks in the book.

If that were true, then there's no such thing as being able to make a Dreadnought with Dark Angels insignia as a full plastic kit.

Begs to differ that point.

There's precedent for them doing these kinds of things where the parts aren't included directly in the kit, but are assumed to be able to be kitbashed using spare parts already in your collection.

There's nothing to suggest that the GKs will suddenly be given access to Rhinos and Rhino-based vehicles beyond my own cynicism that they will get them because it means GK players will have more to buy. I also point out (again) that although GK’s do not have Rhinos/etc. in the fluff right now, that can (and will) change it means being able to sell more kits.

As for unlocking...

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, but at the same time it's a way to impose a bit of "balance" that might otherwise not be possible with these variant lists, don't you think? If I could take a Commander in Terminator Armor and a Captain with a Jump Pack to unlock Jump and Terminators as Troops, don't you think that might be a bit excessive?

Why? It would allow people to play their armies without patching ‘counts as’ over everything. Why must Terminator formations be limited to Dark Angels and the Space Wolves and only then when a specific guy shows up with them. The Ultramarines (and I’m certain they aren’t alone here) have fielded all Terminator formations. The Blood Angels have. Why shouldn’t a Librarian or Chaplain be able to lead a Deathwing force? Why must Belial always be there?

Kanluwen wrote:By tying them with special characters, who have a fixed points cost and fixed equipment, you can at least control what is unlocking those things as Troops and affecting the army-wide special rules, etc.

An imagined problem (one might even go so far as to call that a ‘false dilemma’ Kan). Did Dark Angel players find there was a problem with their Ravenwing and Deathwing forces before the introduction of Belial and Sammael? Would Wolf Guard as Troops be such a big deal without Logan? No I like some special chars opening different options as they represent the types of army that type of character fields (Calgar brings lots of Honour Guard – that’s fine, ditto for Logan that matter). But when generic army types (like ISTs) suddenly enter the realm of ‘Special Character Needed’ rather than just ‘Take an Inquisitor as your HQ’, then that’s a problem.

I don’t want to have to take Coteaz (or whoever it might be) to take an IST army. I don’t like Coteaz, and I don’t want to do a ‘Counts As’. My Inquisitorial leaders range from sword-wielding firebrands at the forefront of combat to snivelling aristocrats who like to hide inside ranks of bodyguards. Torqmeda is neither of these two things.

Just Dave wrote:I do think that IF it did require a Special Character to make Stormies troops, that wouldn't make much sense or actually fit that well with GW's apparent design ethos.

Well, you’re half right. It wouldn’t make sense – no other Inquisitor fields Storm Troopers in any sort of significant number? – but it would fit with GW’s current design ethos.

Just Dave wrote:However, Storm Troopers were such an extensive and core part of many peoples Daemon Hunter armies, that it wouldn't make sense for it to require a special character. Requiring an Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord I could understand and agree with, but I don't think a Special Character is fair or fitting with their current methodology.

I could live with it requiring an Inquisitor (generic and special) as well, but not only a special.

Just Dave wrote:Of course, we don't know anything for sure yet...

Yup (although I do allow a 0.01% possibility of me being wrong).

H.B.M.C. wrote:There's nothing to suggest that the GKs will suddenly be given access to Rhinos and Rhino-based vehicles beyond my own cynicism that they will get them because it means GK players will have more to buy. I also point out (again) that although GK’s do not have Rhinos/etc. in the fluff right now, that can (and will) change it means being able to sell more kits.

Where did I say, anywhere at all, that "the GKs will suddenly be given access to Rhinos and Rhino-based vehicles"?
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers fielded the Rhinos and Razorbacks that were used on Vraks. The Grey Knights at most had a few Land Raiders and some Thunderhawks.

As for unlocking...

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, but at the same time it's a way to impose a bit of "balance" that might otherwise not be possible with these variant lists, don't you think? If I could take a Commander in Terminator Armor and a Captain with a Jump Pack to unlock Jump and Terminators as Troops, don't you think that might be a bit excessive?

Why? It would allow people to play their armies without patching ‘counts as’ over everything. Why must Terminator formations be limited to Dark Angels and the Space Wolves and only then when a specific guy shows up with them. The Ultramarines (and I’m certain they aren’t alone here) have fielded all Terminator formations. The Blood Angels have. Why shouldn’t a Librarian or Chaplain be able to lead a Deathwing force? Why must Belial always be there?

What's the big deal about "counts as" when you've got characters like Belial with multiple weapon options? He's as bland and generic as special characters come, quite frankly. Plus Librarians and Chaplains don't really "lead" anything in the Dark Angels. They're secondary characters, advisors almost exclusively except in extraordinary circumstances.

As for the rest: It's probably because they're trying to distinguish specific themes, rather than just "If Dave wears Terminator Armor, he can bring all his Terminator buddies to brunch!".

And for the record? The Ultramarines have fielded all Terminator formations once or twice at best. The battle for the planetary shield generators in the northern polar regions on Macragge is the only one that immediately springs to mind. The Blood Angels have seemingly only fielded all Terminator forces when they're clearing Space Hulks, not really when fighting on the ground. It's that daggone "exceptional circumstances" idea cropping up again.

Kanluwen wrote:By tying them with special characters, who have a fixed points cost and fixed equipment, you can at least control what is unlocking those things as Troops and affecting the army-wide special rules, etc.

An imagined problem (one might even go so far as to call that a ‘false dilemma’ Kan). Did Dark Angel players find there was a problem with their Ravenwing and Deathwing forces before the introduction of Belial and Sammael? Would Wolf Guard as Troops be such a big deal without Logan? No I like some special chars opening different options as they represent the types of army that type of character fields (Calgar brings lots of Honour Guard – that’s fine, ditto for Logan that matter). But when generic army types (like ISTs) suddenly enter the realm of ‘Special Character Needed’ rather than just ‘Take an Inquisitor as your HQ’, then that’s a problem.

We're agreed on that matter then. Except I, personally, feel that it shouldn't just be "take an Inquisitor as your HQ". Having any Inquisitor, even a relatively "minor" Inquisitor(like the rumoured "Inquisitor" unit that was supposed to be an elite choice ala Tech-Priests that didn't really take up a slot, but still cost points, etc) should allow for fielding Stormtrooper units equal to the number of Inquisitors fielded.

Having an Inquisitor Lord present should net your Inquisitorial Stormtroopers huge bonuses, simply by dint of them being representative of the better quality available to an Inquisitorial Lord's status.

I don’t want to have to take Coteaz (or whoever it might be) to take an IST army. I don’t like Coteaz, and I don’t want to do a ‘Counts As’. My Inquisitorial leaders range from sword-wielding firebrands at the forefront of combat to snivelling aristocrats who like to hide inside ranks of bodyguards. Torqmeda is neither of these two things.

Please calm down the doomsaying.
We don't know that you have to take Coteaz or some named Inquisitor Lord to take an IST army. In fact, we've basically got no information on the Inquisition side of the Grey Knights book.

Outside of "Oh, they're there."

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I do think that IF it did require a Special Character to make Stormies troops, that wouldn't make much sense or actually fit that well with GW's apparent design ethos.

Well, you’re half right. It wouldn’t make sense – no other Inquisitor fields Storm Troopers in any sort of significant number? – but it would fit with GW’s current design ethos.

Just Dave wrote:However, Storm Troopers were such an extensive and core part of many peoples Daemon Hunter armies, that it wouldn't make sense for it to require a special character. Requiring an Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord I could understand and agree with, but I don't think a Special Character is fair or fitting with their current methodology.

I could live with it requiring an Inquisitor (generic and special) as well, but not only a special.

I would be really surprised if the only way Inquisitorial Stormtroopers as Troop choices happens is from a special character.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Of course, we don't know anything for sure yet...

Yup (although I do allow a 0.01% possibility of me being wrong).

I'll give you the same margin I give notable rumour posters.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

warboss wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

bhsman wrote:


And one that neo-nazi groups around the world look to for inspiration and would do again if they could.

It's far from dead history.

If there were skinhead gangs modeling themselves on Roman Legions and looking to put the Hun to a sword we might look at Roman history differently too.

I think you'll note that no one implied it was. However, it's unjust to recriminate someone born after the fact for something the people from their country did before they were alive.

On topic:
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers should quite naturally require an...inquisitor. This is a no-brainer.

Reply by: crazypsyko666 - click to view full reply 

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Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 03:30:30

Post by: crazypsyko666

Just Dave wrote:I do think that IF it did require a Special Character to make Stormies troops, that wouldn't make much sense or actually fit that well with GW's apparent design ethos.

I mean, Special Characters typically (except for the DA, but admittedly, they're an old Codex) allow certain units to be taken as troops to allow more 'off the wall' or unique armies; no special character that I can recall (baring DA, again) has restricted such a fundemental part of the army.
For example, Dante allows Sanguinary Guard to be taken as troops, then there's Logan/Wolf Guard, Canis/Fenrisian Wolves, Baron/Helions, Pedro/Sternguard... All these aren't conventional builds and as such it's KIND OF fitting that it requires a special character.

However, Storm Troopers were such an extensive and core part of many peoples Daemon Hunter armies, that it wouldn't make sense for it to require a special character. Requiring an Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord I could understand and agree with, but I don't think a Special Character is fair or fitting with their current methodology.

Of course, we don't know anything for sure yet...

Yes, but there is a fundamental Duality to the Daemonhunters codex as it stands. The first is the Grey Knights, an independent fighting force of Space Marines loyal to the Inquisition, and secondly, the Inquisition itself, which relies on guile and resourcefulness to prevent the destruction of planets, then requisitions ANY Imperial Force to fight for them. I'm completely playing Devil's Advocate here, but it would not surprise me if an IC, not necessarily an SC (which it probably will) unlocks a certain set of units or something in that gauge.

Reply by: Brother SRM - click to view full reply 

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Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 03:40:40

Post by: Brother SRM

crazypsyko666 wrote:One of the problems I've noticed has been that GW has been creating codexes for very specific chapters and armies, for example the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and recently the Grey Knights. It doesn't allow the openness and creativity of a generalized codex like Codex: (C)SM, or Codex: Dark Eldar, it wants you to be a part of something that's already there, rather than create your own.

These codexes they've been creating have been in circulation since the mid 90's with Codex: Angels of Death and Codex: Space Wolves. These are absolutely nothing new.

Reply by: Nausadun - click to view full reply 

38779

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 03:57:44

Post by: Nausadun

"If Dave wears Terminator Armor, he can bring all his Terminator buddies to brunch!" -Hilarious.

But really, there is all this talk on IST's and Inquisitors, out of curiosity is their any word at all on Daemon-hosts? I'd imagine them and radicals thrown out for a Grey Knight codex.

Personally, my only and favorite army won't be needing the crutch of the Inquisition to purge Daemonic filth But more options are always nice.

Reply by: H.B.M.C. - click to view full reply 

494

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 05:20:23

Post by: H.B.M.C.

Heh. We'll be lucky if Daemonhosts even exist in the new Codex. Or maybe they'll do a 'Chaos' on us and split Daemonhosts into a new Codex. Codex: Daemonhosts. It'll just be various flavours of Daemonhost.

Reply by: Jaon - click to view full reply 

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Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 05:31:37

Post by: Jaon

H.B.M.C. wrote:Heh. We'll be lucky if Daemonhosts even exist in the new Codex. Or maybe they'll do a 'Chaos' on us and split Daemonhosts into a new Codex. Codex: Daemonhosts. It'll just be various flavours of Daemonhost.

You seem to have had a very tough childhood HBMC


Ok new topic, we are all sick of the SC arguement. Doesnt anyone find it more than a tad unrealistic to expect all NFW to be FW? Like seriously, its useless against daemons anyway, unless it purposely ignores daemon EW (hence "nemesis"). Other than that, its useless a lot of the time anyway, I mean how many multiwounded squads are their? Less than 1 per codex is how many. And it would be SO overpowered against tyranids, I mean 5 GK could EASILY kill a trygon if all 5 of them had FW, it makes 0 sense and I dont buy it for a second. It will be something different.


Mark my words.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To add to that, here are the possibilitys:


Furious Charge (very unlikely, to much like BA)
2+ str ( Why would they take that out? I know its rumoured to be gone, but seriously?)
1 or 2+ INI (I see this happening with halberds at least)
Rending (that wouldnt be so bad, still useless against daemons)
Power weapon (how is that balanced at all...still useless against daemons)

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

17155

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 06:30:10

Post by: bhsman

One of the early-early-early rumors was that NFW were just power weapons that wounded models with the Psyker and Daemon rule on a 2+, which became Force Weapons in the hands of GK Terminators.

I think the only person to shoot that down was Stickmonkey, and, well...

Reply by: fatty - click to view full reply 

28141

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 17:20:01

Post by: fatty

H.B.M.C. wrote:There's nothing to suggest that the GKs will suddenly be given access to Rhinos and Rhino-based vehicles beyond my own cynicism that they will get them because it means GK players will have more to buy. I also point out (again) that although GK’s do not have Rhinos/etc. in the fluff right now, that can (and will) change it means being able to sell more kits.

As for unlocking...

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, but at the same time it's a way to impose a bit of "balance" that might otherwise not be possible with these variant lists, don't you think? If I could take a Commander in Terminator Armor and a Captain with a Jump Pack to unlock Jump and Terminators as Troops, don't you think that might be a bit excessive?

Why? It would allow people to play their armies without patching ‘counts as’ over everything. Why must Terminator formations be limited to Dark Angels and the Space Wolves and only then when a specific guy shows up with them. The Ultramarines (and I’m certain they aren’t alone here) have fielded all Terminator formations. The Blood Angels have. Why shouldn’t a Librarian or Chaplain be able to lead a Deathwing force? Why must Belial always be there?

Kanluwen wrote:By tying them with special characters, who have a fixed points cost and fixed equipment, you can at least control what is unlocking those things as Troops and affecting the army-wide special rules, etc.

An imagined problem (one might even go so far as to call that a ‘false dilemma’ Kan). Did Dark Angel players find there was a problem with their Ravenwing and Deathwing forces before the introduction of Belial and Sammael? Would Wolf Guard as Troops be such a big deal without Logan? No I like some special chars opening different options as they represent the types of army that type of character fields (Calgar brings lots of Honour Guard – that’s fine, ditto for Logan that matter). But when generic army types (like ISTs) suddenly enter the realm of ‘Special Character Needed’ rather than just ‘Take an Inquisitor as your HQ’, then that’s a problem.

I don’t want to have to take Coteaz (or whoever it might be) to take an IST army. I don’t like Coteaz, and I don’t want to do a ‘Counts As’. My Inquisitorial leaders range from sword-wielding firebrands at the forefront of combat to snivelling aristocrats who like to hide inside ranks of bodyguards. Torqmeda is neither of these two things.

Just Dave wrote:I do think that IF it did require a Special Character to make Stormies troops, that wouldn't make much sense or actually fit that well with GW's apparent design ethos.

Well, you’re half right. It wouldn’t make sense – no other Inquisitor fields Storm Troopers in any sort of significant number? – but it would fit with GW’s current design ethos.

Just Dave wrote:However, Storm Troopers were such an extensive and core part of many peoples Daemon Hunter armies, that it wouldn't make sense for it to require a special character. Requiring an Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord I could understand and agree with, but I don't think a Special Character is fair or fitting with their current methodology.

I could live with it requiring an Inquisitor (generic and special) as well, but not only a special.

Just Dave wrote:Of course, we don't know anything for sure yet...

Yup (although I do allow a 0.01% possibility of me being wrong).

Wow the first time I really agree with you. But yeah I would dig it if Inquistors made ST troop just like the heamonoculus does with wracks.
On the Rhino thing didnt the old codex had Rhino's in them?

greets Fatty

PS yes I know where my shift button is but I choose not to use it just like I choos not too include SC in my forces but specialy for you I did it this one time

Reply by: crazypsyko666 - click to view full reply 

17072

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 19:12:47

Post by: crazypsyko666

Brother SRM wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:One of the problems I've noticed has been that GW has been creating codexes for very specific chapters and armies, for example the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and recently the Grey Knights. It doesn't allow the openness and creativity of a generalized codex like Codex: (C)SM, or Codex: Dark Eldar, it wants you to be a part of something that's already there, rather than create your own.

These codexes they've been creating have been in circulation since the mid 90's with Codex: Angels of Death and Codex: Space Wolves. These are absolutely nothing new.

Well, you see, I'm still considerably new, given the vast ranks of veterans on this site.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jaon wrote:Ok new topic, we are all sick of the SC arguement. Doesnt anyone find it more than a tad unrealistic to expect all NFW to be FW? Like seriously, its useless against daemons anyway, unless it purposely ignores daemon EW (hence "nemesis"). Other than that, its useless a lot of the time anyway, I mean how many multiwounded squads are their? Less than 1 per codex is how many. And it would be SO overpowered against tyranids, I mean 5 GK could EASILY kill a trygon if all 5 of them had FW, it makes 0 sense and I dont buy it for a second. It will be something different.


Mark my words.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To add to that, here are the possibilitys:


Furious Charge (very unlikely, to much like BA)
2+ str ( Why would they take that out? I know its rumoured to be gone, but seriously?)
1 or 2+ INI (I see this happening with halberds at least)
Rending (that wouldnt be so bad, still useless against daemons)
Power weapon (how is that balanced at all...still useless against daemons)

Well, there was a rumor that all GK squads would have psychic powers that enhanced them in some passive way, or something along those lines. It's still possible that Force Weapons for troops would be a (expensive) psychic power. The power weapons thing doesn't surprise me, though. Bloodletters have proven that an army can let entire squads take PW in the Troop section, albeit fragile ones. All I'm saying is it's within the realm of possibility. I sincerely doubt that it would be standard, but it's definitely possible.

Reply by: Alpharius - click to view full reply 

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Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 19:24:53

Post by: Alpharius

fatty wrote:
Wow the first time I really agree with you. But yeah I would dig it if Inquistors made ST troop just like the heamonoculus does with wracks.
On the Rhino thing didnt the old codex had Rhino's in them?

The old codex did indeed have Rhinos in them, just NOT for use as dedicated transports for Grey Knights.

H.B.M.C. is saying, I think, that we shouldn't be surprised IF they are given that option now, as it would sell more models, especially in the mechanized world we currently live in...

Reply by: Grundz - click to view full reply 

19377

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 19:40:46

Post by: Grundz

Jaon wrote:Furious Charge (very unlikely, to much like BA)
2+ str ( Why would they take that out? I know its rumoured to be gone, but seriously?)
1 or 2+ INI (I see this happening with halberds at least)
Rending (that wouldnt be so bad, still useless against daemons)
Power weapon (how is that balanced at all...still useless against daemons)

Like I said earlier, its highly unlikely all these upgrades can be taken as a whole (the ones with everything are likely the 90pt each super terminators) but are probably judicar only, or as an expensive squad upgrade.
I really dont think the 25pt grey knights were that far off with stormbolters and 6str WS5 swords, its just that the judicars and upgradeds were way too much and it snowballed on them.

Reply by: kronk - click to view full reply 

18698

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 19:51:52

Post by: kronk

Alpharius wrote:

The old codex did indeed have Rhinos in them, just NOT for use as dedicated transports for Grey Knights.

H.B.M.C. is saying, I think, that we shouldn't be surprised IF they are given that option now, as it would sell more models, especially in the mechanized world we currently live in...

Yep. I can see these guys trotting out in Rhinos and Razorbacks, to go with their Landraiders and Storm Ravens. Are people having problems with that? An astartes-sized squad will need a larger metal box to ride in than a squad of IG, right?

Reply by: BrassScorpion - click to view full reply 

13937

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 19:53:07

Post by: BrassScorpion

we shouldn't be surprised IF they are given that (rhino) option now

Speaking of transports, Grey Knights in Rhinos and Drop Pods might be something we see in April. Glad I have a few of both kits waiting for the next project where they are needed.

Reply by: reds8n - click to view full reply 

5394

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 19:57:27

Post by: reds8n

fatty wrote: I choose not to use it just like I choose not too include SC in my forces

Then, alas, I would you suggest you won't be fielding (m)any Inquisitorial storm trooper units with the new codex.

Reply by: VoidAngel - click to view full reply 

38857

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 20:10:25

Post by: VoidAngel

Special characters can fetch +25-50% or more of the price of other current single models; therefore, there will be special characters required to do things that most people will want to do.

Reply by: Balance - click to view full reply 

207

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 20:26:48

Post by: Balance

BrassScorpion wrote:

we shouldn't be surprised IF they are given that (rhino) option now

Speaking of transports, Grey Knights in Rhinos and Drop Pods might be something we see in April. Glad I have a few of both kits waiting for the next project where they are needed.

As long as it's not Rhinos and Drop Pods at the same time this doesn't bother me, personally. Teleporting is 'iconic' but I don't think, considering how unreliable it seems to be in the 40k setting, that Grey Knights would completely abandon the Rhino, which is a pretty non-descript vehicle option. It's a comparatively cheap and easy vehicle to acquire in setting, The Chimera is probably more common, but the Rhino is built to support Space Marines.

The Rhino is a lot more convenient when it comes to going down to the store, or even going to/from the front and rear of battlefield lines.

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

17155

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 20:30:26

Post by: bhsman

reds8n wrote:

fatty wrote: I choose not to use it just like I choose not too include SC in my forces

Then, alas, I would you suggest you won't be fielding (m)any Inquisitorial storm trooper units with the new codex.

Yay, ISTs as Troops.

EDIT: As in, it'll be the only one or will it be like Ko'Sarro Khan in which he can make Bikers Troops, but so can a regular Bike Captain?

Reply by: fatty - click to view full reply 

28141

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 22:17:06

Post by: fatty

luckly i play walker ork so no need for a sc.. but i do want too field the mad dok for the cybork gretchin... but back on topic.
ok i get it now on the Rhino thing.
and about the transport whice loyal power armour wearing codex doesnt include a drop pod for everyone? maybe they will get crazy and make a drop pod for landraiders its gw you never know

Reply by: H.B.M.C. - click to view full reply 

494

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 22:42:07

Post by: H.B.M.C.

bhsman wrote:Yay, ISTs as Troops.

EDIT: As in, it'll be the only one or will it be like Ko'Sarro Khan in which he can make Bikers Troops, but so can a regular Bike Captain?

With a named character.

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

17155

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 22:53:34

Post by: bhsman

H.B.M.C. wrote:

bhsman wrote:Yay, ISTs as Troops.

EDIT: As in, it'll be the only one or will it be like Ko'Sarro Khan in which he can make Bikers Troops, but so can a regular Bike Captain?

With a named character.

Supposed as much, but I thought I might as well ask. I don't suppose it'll be a certain chrome dome, eh?

Reply by: Jaon - click to view full reply 

30356

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 22:54:24

Post by: Jaon

fatty wrote:luckly i play walker ork so no need for a sc.. but i do want too field the mad dok for the cybork gretchin... but back on topic.
ok i get it now on the Rhino thing.
and about the transport whice loyal power armour wearing codex doesnt include a drop pod for everyone? maybe they will get crazy and make a drop pod for landraiders its gw you never know

You are very hard to understand fatty, I got a headache from just trying to read that. Please try to type with more sense and punctuation in the future, it would be much appreciated

I honestly think it will be troops with power weapons that wound psykers and daemons on a 2+.

Bye bye avatar!

Reply by: H.B.M.C. - click to view full reply 

494

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 23:03:07

Post by: H.B.M.C.

bhsman wrote:Supposed as much, but I thought I might as well ask. I don't suppose it'll be a certain chrome dome, eh?

Get your Daemon Hammers ready...

Reply by: Kanluwen - click to view full reply 

722

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 23:06:42

Post by: Kanluwen

Not believing it until I see it in person. Makes no sense, especially not with the Haemonculi in Dark Eldar allowing for something so similar.

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

17155

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 23:08:32

Post by: bhsman

H.B.M.C. wrote:Get your Daemon Hammers ready...

It's funny, I expected to be more upset but my brain's already churning out kitbash ideas, starting with the plastic Thunder Hammer from the Death Company kit...

Reply by: Jaon - click to view full reply 

30356

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/01/31 23:19:59

Post by: Jaon

H.B.M.C. wrote:

bhsman wrote:Supposed as much, but I thought I might as well ask. I don't suppose it'll be a certain chrome dome, eh?

Get your Daemon Hammers ready...

At the ready!

Reply by: youbedead - click to view full reply 

7926

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 00:45:25

Post by: youbedead

Jaon wrote:

fatty wrote:luckly i play walker ork so no need for a sc.. but i do want too field the mad dok for the cybork gretchin... but back on topic.
ok i get it now on the Rhino thing.
and about the transport whice loyal power armour wearing codex doesnt include a drop pod for everyone? maybe they will get crazy and make a drop pod for landraiders its gw you never know

You are very hard to understand fatty, I got a headache from just trying to read that. Please try to type with more sense and punctuation in the future, it would be much appreciated

I honestly think it will be troops with power weapons that wound psykers and daemons on a 2+.

Bye bye avatar!

If they do get FW all of them would automatically have power weapons anyways.

Reply by: H.B.M.C. - click to view full reply 

494

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 01:07:11

Post by: H.B.M.C.

Kanluwen wrote:Not believing it until I see it in person. Makes no sense, especially not with the Haemonculi in Dark Eldar allowing for something so similar.

Ok, well, let's all remember this exact conversation come April.

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

17155

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 02:24:10

Post by: bhsman

The only thing that I'm confused about is that there were rumors that Henchmen (which supposedly Coteaz turns into Troops) also includes Daemonhosts? Or maybe that was an old rumor.

Reply by: Jaon - click to view full reply 

30356

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 06:12:54

Post by: Jaon

youbedead wrote:

Jaon wrote:

fatty wrote:luckly i play walker ork so no need for a sc.. but i do want too field the mad dok for the cybork gretchin... but back on topic.
ok i get it now on the Rhino thing.
and about the transport whice loyal power armour wearing codex doesnt include a drop pod for everyone? maybe they will get crazy and make a drop pod for landraiders its gw you never know

You are very hard to understand fatty, I got a headache from just trying to read that. Please try to type with more sense and punctuation in the future, it would be much appreciated

I honestly think it will be troops with power weapons that wound psykers and daemons on a 2+.

Bye bye avatar!

If they do get FW all of them would automatically have power weapons anyways.

You make an excellent point. maybe they are downpowered ones that you can take armour saves against?

Reply by: fatty - click to view full reply 

28141

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 07:23:09

Post by: fatty

sorry Jaon my grammer is a little (way off). I will try to make some more readable posts in the future.

@kan why wouldt they get it just because de have something similar? since when did that stop GW? he we have got 4 space marine codexis already lets make another one

Reply by: shrike - click to view full reply 

10470

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 08:21:37

Post by: shrike

fatty wrote:sorry Jaon my grammer is a little (way off). I will try to make some more readable posts in the future.

@kan why wouldt they get it just because de have something similar? since when did that stop GW? he we have got 4 space marine codexis already lets make another one

lol you spelt grammar wrong...

Reply by: Puscifer - click to view full reply 

36303

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 09:48:40

Post by: Puscifer

When is the release for GK's?

If it is really soon, I might wait and not bother with the Death Company Army I have planned.

Reply by: fatty - click to view full reply 

28141

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 11:32:47

Post by: fatty

shrike wrote:

fatty wrote:sorry Jaon my grammer is a little (way off). I will try to make some more readable posts in the future.

@kan why wouldt they get it just because de have something similar? since when did that stop GW? he we have got 4 space marine codexis already lets make another one

lol you spelt grammar wrong...

and my spelling.. I hate dyslexia.......
does anybody know when there will be any new rumors? or are we out of rumors

Reply by: H.B.M.C. - click to view full reply 

494

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 12:38:43

Post by: H.B.M.C.

There are plenty more bits of information - concrete 100% real information - but whether or not that information can be posted is a different question.

Reply by: UltraPrime - click to view full reply 

8230

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 13:34:53

Post by: UltraPrime

H.B.M.C. wrote:There are plenty more bits of information - concrete 100% real information - but whether or not that information can be posted is a different question.

Hmmm...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yes, saying "I know something you don't know!" is very annoying, but I haven't really got a sense

H.B.M.C. wrote:coming to N&R and saying 'I know something you don't know' isn't at all helpful.

H.B.M.C. wrote:When did this go from being the 'News & Rumour' forum to the 'I know something you don't'

H.B.M.C. wrote:playing the 'I know something you don't know' line on you. Always funny when they do

H.B.M.C. wrote:and rumours, and not a place to go "I know something you don't know!".

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

17155

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 13:40:40

Post by: bhsman

Zing.

Reply by: Brother SRM - click to view full reply 

15115

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 13:44:14

Post by: Brother SRM

Puscifer wrote:When is the release for GK's?

If it is really soon, I might wait and not bother with the Death Company Army I have planned.

April. Confirmed by GW on their website.

Reply by: vaatbak - click to view full reply 

37504

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 18:19:47

Post by: vaatbak

UltraPrime wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:There are plenty more bits of information - concrete 100% real information - but whether or not that information can be posted is a different question.

Hmmm...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yes, saying "I know something you don't know!" is very annoying, but I haven't really got a sense

H.B.M.C. wrote:coming to N&R and saying 'I know something you don't know' isn't at all helpful.

H.B.M.C. wrote:When did this go from being the 'News & Rumour' forum to the 'I know something you don't'

H.B.M.C. wrote:playing the 'I know something you don't know' line on you. Always funny when they do

H.B.M.C. wrote:and rumours, and not a place to go "I know something you don't know!".

Snap....

Reply by: shrike - click to view full reply 

10470

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 18:40:15

Post by: shrike

can someone post every rumour that's confirmed, then a list of every rumour that's likely, then every rumour that's unlikely?

Reply by: warboss - click to view full reply 

1478

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 18:42:18

Post by: warboss

shrike wrote:can someone post every rumour that's confirmed, then a list of every rumour that's likely, then every rumour that's unlikely?

for the confirmed, see below.

Brother SRM wrote:

Puscifer wrote:When is the release for GK's?

If it is really soon, I might wait and not bother with the Death Company Army I have planned.

April. Confirmed by GW on their website.

Reply by: Kroothawk - click to view full reply 

24567

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 18:51:02

Post by: Kroothawk

I start with the complete list of confirmed rumours:

Grey Knights will get a new Codex and miniatures in April.

Reply by: BrassScorpion - click to view full reply 

13937

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 18:53:45

Post by: BrassScorpion

Also confirmed:

The Stormraven has Grey Knights badges on the sprue and is portrayed in Grey Knights livery on the back of the box.

Reply by: fatty - click to view full reply 

28141

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 18:53:52

Post by: fatty

Brother SRM wrote:

Puscifer wrote:When is the release for GK's?

If it is really soon, I might wait and not bother with the Death Company Army I have planned.

April. Confirmed by GW on their website.

we know thi i posted the conformation some 20 pages back... but its always helpfull to say it again i guess

Reply by: reds8n - click to view full reply 

5394

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 19:05:13

Post by: reds8n

Kroothawk wrote:I start with the complete list of confirmed rumours:

Grey Knights will get a new Codex and miniatures in April.

Dreadknight is comfirmed too.

Reply by: H.B.M.C. - click to view full reply 

494

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 19:16:21

Post by: H.B.M.C.

UltraPrime wrote:Hmmm...

Jesus... obsessive much? How long did it take you to dredge up all those posts?

And yeah, it's annoying, something I'm only just learning about. Believe you me I'd much rather be able to give our rumours.

Reply by: UltraPrime - click to view full reply 

8230

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 19:29:06

Post by: UltraPrime

H.B.M.C. wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:Hmmm...

Jesus... obsessive much? How long did it take you to dredge up all those posts?

About 15 seconds

Reply by: Vhalyar - click to view full reply 

17901

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 19:29:51

Post by: Vhalyar

reds8n wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:I start with the complete list of confirmed rumours:

Grey Knights will get a new Codex and miniatures in April.

Dreadknight is comfirmed too.

Confirmed or "confirmed"?

Reply by: shrike - click to view full reply 

10470

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 19:32:16

Post by: shrike

I mean confirmed by reliable sources.
so confirmed:
stormraven
ISTs only for henchmen
ISTs fully unlocked with Coteaz
power weapons
dreadknight
stern
2++ invul upgrade

Reply by: Magister187 - click to view full reply 

34172

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 19:35:52

Post by: Magister187

None of those things are really confirmed, you are basically just choosing the rumours you like and posting them as confirmed. Even correct information can be wrong without context; just chill on the "confirmed" moniker until, I don't know, its confirmed by the release of the codex (or at least some verifiable hands on accounts).

Edit: Sorry, Storm Raven is confirmed. Stern is essentially confirmed. Other things, not really.

Reply by: pretre - click to view full reply 

20774

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 19:40:53

Post by: pretre

UltraPrime wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:Hmmm...

Jesus... obsessive much? How long did it take you to dredge up all those posts?

About 15 seconds

Search through all posts by user for "I know something you don't know"

Reply by: H.B.M.C. - click to view full reply 

494

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 19:40:54

Post by: H.B.M.C.

I'm fairly certain the Storm Raven is confirmed. I mean, it has GK icons in there.

Reply by: ThatMG - click to view full reply 

31501

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 20:09:33

Post by: ThatMG

Only these

GK getting a codex
New plastics (see below)
New units (Hurp Derp every codex does this)
It has the Silver toasterplane (AKA the Stormraven for Gray Knights)

Reply by: ThunderfireMac - click to view full reply 

37447

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 20:19:24

Post by: ThunderfireMac

Will Stern get a new model?

Reply by: Puscifer - click to view full reply 

36303

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 20:21:59

Post by: Puscifer

Brother SRM wrote:

Puscifer wrote:When is the release for GK's?

If it is really soon, I might wait and not bother with the Death Company Army I have planned.

April. Confirmed by GW on their website.

Nah - I won't be jumping on the band wagon for this.

DC all the way.

Reply by: reds8n - click to view full reply 

5394

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 20:29:46

Post by: reds8n

Vhalyar wrote:

reds8n wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:I start with the complete list of confirmed rumours:

Grey Knights will get a new Codex and miniatures in April.

Dreadknight is comfirmed too.

Confirmed or "confirmed"?

In this instance, it is indeed sans quotation marks.

Reply by: Jaon - click to view full reply 

30356

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 22:54:43

Post by: Jaon

Since when was the DK confirmed? At all? Gw have said nothing, its just a credible rumour. Unless theres like a picture of in in the codex or something, it may as well just be a person making up some really cool really viable rumours. Dreadknight isnt even its real name! Its an internet name it adopted at warseer! aararrarara!

Reply by: Noir - click to view full reply 

33816

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/01 23:07:28

Post by: Noir

Jaon wrote:Since when was the DK confirmed? At all? Gw have said nothing, its just a credible rumour. Unless theres like a picture of in in the codex or something, it may as well just be a person making up some really cool really viable rumours. Dreadknight isnt even its real name! Its an internet name it adopted at warseer! aararrarara!

I been think about this, the DK said to be like MC big right. Isn't there a small Tatin the "Knight" something or other. GW been pushing more models and bigger models this edtion. So what are the odds with there over the top sytle they been doing latey, of it being the mini Tatin.

Reply by: Jaon - click to view full reply 

30356

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 00:25:45

Post by: Jaon

Can anyone translate?
Yeah I dont think its meant to symbolise a mini ta..titan*

Reply by: boreas - click to view full reply 

1165

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 00:48:03

Post by: boreas

A tatin is an inverted pie, usually apple. A small tatin is this:




While delicious, I'm pretty sure it's not in the Codex: GK.

Phil

Reply by: Jon Touchdown - click to view full reply 

8748

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 00:57:46

Post by: Jon Touchdown

boreas wrote:A tatin is an inverted pie, usually apple. A small tatin is this:




While delicious, I'm pretty sure it's not in the Codex: GK.

Phil

Delicious

Lol some people in here need to calm down.

Last time I checked rumor was defined as:

"a story or statement in general circulation without confirmation or certainty as to facts"

Reply by: Jaon - click to view full reply 

30356

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 00:58:16

Post by: Jaon

BAHAHAHAH! LOOLLLLLLLLL!

Made my day

Reply by: Rbb - click to view full reply 

5773

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 01:13:55

Post by: Rbb

I'm way more interested in this inside out pie than I am Gk now. Why have I not heard of this? This a Canadian pastry? I like pie.

Reply by: dkellyj - click to view full reply 

31886

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 02:56:29

Post by: dkellyj

With Vanilla ice cream.

Reply by: Jaon - click to view full reply 

30356

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 03:12:54

Post by: Jaon

I smell a lock guys, enough about the pie!

*lassoo's thread*

How much do we speculate the terminators will be?

What about the super terminators?

Reply by: JohnHwangDD - click to view full reply 

5421

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 03:21:37

Post by: JohnHwangDD

reds8n wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:I start with the complete list of confirmed rumours:

Grey Knights will get a new Codex and miniatures in April.

Dreadknight is comfirmed too.

Oh, awesome!

We *totally* needed another Space Marine Dreadnought, after the Fury, Ironclad, Venerable, basic, and AoBR ones.

Is he armed with a "Knight Fist"?


Anyhow, I simply can't wait to see the Black Templars Dread next year to go with their Codex, along with a Dark Angels "Rifleman" the year after that, and maybe a Woof Dread after that.

Then, after all of those, perhaps Chaos can get a basic Dread.

Awesome!

Reply by: AgeOfEgos - click to view full reply 

2764

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 03:23:45

Post by: AgeOfEgos

JohnHwangDD wrote:

reds8n wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:I start with the complete list of confirmed rumours:

Grey Knights will get a new Codex and miniatures in April.

Dreadknight is comfirmed too.

Oh, awesome!

We *totally* needed another Space Marine Dreadnought, after the Fury, Ironclad, Venerable, basic, and AoBR ones.

Is he armed with a "Knight Fist"?


Anyhow, I simply can't wait to see the Black Templars Dread next year to go with their Codex, along with a Dark Angels "Rifleman" the year after that, and maybe a Woof Dread after that.

Then, after all of those, perhaps Chaos can get a basic Dread.

Awesome!

Chaos has a dread;



And what a beauty at that!



Honestly, the best chaos players can hope for is that Phil Kelly is currently working on the Legions book. The SW codex is a more tinker inclusive/chaos player codex right now....than the chaos codex.

Reply by: JohnHwangDD - click to view full reply 

5421

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 03:24:51

Post by: JohnHwangDD

Heh, the last of the metal Dreads...

Reply by: Jaon - click to view full reply 

30356

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 03:52:30

Post by: Jaon

JohnHwangDD wrote:Heh, the last of the metal Dreads...

May they never rest in peace.

Reply by: Nausadun - click to view full reply 

38779

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 04:08:38

Post by: Nausadun

Jaon wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Heh, the last of the metal Dreads...

May they never rest in peace.

Indeed. To the earlier comment, Termies will be plastic and overpriced at somewhere around $45-50. Cause we all have to feed the GW beast eventually...

Reply by: H.B.M.C. - click to view full reply 

494

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 04:15:42

Post by: H.B.M.C.

JohnHwangDD wrote:We *totally* needed another Space Marine Dreadnought, after the Fury, Ironclad, Venerable, basic, and AoBR ones.

Is he armed with a "Knight Fist"?

It's not really a Dread.

Reply by: VoidAngel - click to view full reply 

38857

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 05:16:38

Post by: VoidAngel

Whoa - I REALLY like the idea of a 40K scale Knight-class titan! I didn't even think of that. I have an Armorcast Towering Destroyer Knight for my Eldar, and it's "only" about twice the size of a Wraithlord. If that is what they are doing, to bring Imperials up to scale with Tyranid Trygons and such...that would be freaking awesome. I'd actually buy that.

Reply by: H.B.M.C. - click to view full reply 

494

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 05:21:57

Post by: H.B.M.C.

It's not a 'Titan' either.

Reply by: CrazyBones - click to view full reply 

10368

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 05:28:08

Post by: CrazyBones

I see a lot of rumors regarding rules and the codex but not much chatter on the new models.

Any rumors on if we will see full plastic units of Terminators and Grey Knights in PA? New Inquisitor models?

Personally, I would love to see a new Inquisitor Lord in Terminator armor and an easier way to get retinue figures!

Reply by: warboss - click to view full reply 

1478

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 05:31:17

Post by: warboss

Jaon wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Heh, the last of the metal Dreads...

May they never rest in peace.

they're dreads... they never get to rest in peace! 40k tech-necromancy FTW!

Reply by: H.B.M.C. - click to view full reply 

494

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 05:36:58

Post by: H.B.M.C.

CrazyBones wrote:... and an easier way to get retinue figures!

How about a way to get Retinue figures.

Ages ago, back when GW had a Bitz service, they had this (admittedly expensive) pack that contained all the Inquisitorial Henchmen models, plus a few others like the various Ministorum Priests and whatnot. It was awesome. They should do that again as a Direct Only thing.

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

17155

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 05:42:20

Post by: bhsman

The best description of the new walker is that it's like a Marine, in Terminator armor, and also using this to pilot an exosuit a la Avatar or Aliens.

Which sounds incredibly dumb in concept. :(

Reply by: Brother SRM - click to view full reply 

15115

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 05:59:17

Post by: Brother SRM

CrazyBones wrote:I see a lot of rumors regarding rules and the codex but not much chatter on the new models.

Any rumors on if we will see full plastic units of Terminators and Grey Knights in PA? New Inquisitor models?

Personally, I would love to see a new Inquisitor Lord in Terminator armor and an easier way to get retinue figures!

Why wouldn't they? Considering GW's shift to "as much plastic as possible" there's no reason they wouldn't make the basic troops for the army plastic. Back in the day when GK were released it was different, but it's safe to say there will be plastic here. Each codex release has been getting 3 plastic kits and 3 blisters, so expect Terminators, PAGK, and a third kit, possibly the Dreadknight thing.

Reply by: VoidAngel - click to view full reply 

38857

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 07:38:36

Post by: VoidAngel

An 'exoskeleton' thing seems stupid and out of character...until you think about those (terrible) penitent engines. It just doesn't seem like the kind of thing a Space Marine would climb into. I guess we'll see, or not see.
A small titan would definitely be cooler, though if it has wounds...that isn't what this thing is going to be. Who knows with GW anymore. Maybe it'll transform into a Landraider, too. Inquisi-bots - roll out!

Reply by: Jaon - click to view full reply 

30356

Grey Knight Compiled Rumors (Updated Jan. 28th) @ 2011/02/02 07:42:19

Post by: Jaon

CrazyBones wrote:I see a lot of rumors regarding rules and the codex but not much chatter on the new models.

Any rumors on if we will see full plastic units of Terminators and Grey Knights in PA? New Inquisitor models?

Personally, I would love to see a new Inquisitor Lord in Terminator armor and an easier way to get retinue figures!

Amen! I tip my hat to you sir! That is a wonderful prospect. I am truly giddy for new plastics, my favourite part is making the models in awesome posses

bhsman wrote:The best description of the new walker is that it's like a Marine, in Terminator armor, and also using this to pilot an exosuit a la Avatar or Aliens.

Which sounds incredibly dumb in concept. :(

And to you my friend I say No! Exosuits with power are not wholly stupid! Check it. Although its not insanely awesome, it IS a cool concept (YMMV) Imagine a terminator strapped into a massive walker ...it COULD be cool. Lets just hope we dont get a chibi-walker / walking toaster yeah?






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(note this is NOT a dreadknight, it is art by a random)

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