I challenged Reece (aka Reecius) to a game. I wanted to test out my Doom Scythe Wraithwing necrons against 1 of 2 builds - either Imperial Guards or Grey Knights. Even though the grey knights have not won a lot of the bigger tournaments, IMO, they are arguably the 2 top tournament armies in the game today. If necrons can hang with them, then I will have the confidence to say that the new necrons are definitely a very competitive army.

First off, this will only be my 2nd game with my Wraithwing using doom scythes. My first game with them was against the new Sisters of Battle (battle report here). In that game, my opponent didn't really have a lot of experience with the new Sisters of Battle and made a few mistakes, especially in deployment, which I took advantage of.

But since then, I've altered my list. The Destroyer Lord has always been just a temporary unit. My final TAC (Take-All-Comer's) necron list will have 2 Catacomb Command Barges, one piloted by my Overlord and the other by Anrakyr. This just makes sense in my army as it adds another very fast threat that my opponent will have to contend with. It also adds redundancy to my list. Also, while I am still taking 2 doom scythes, I will be using vendettas as proxies this time around as I believe the final model will be on the vendetta/stormraven flyer bases as opposed to the normal skimmer bases.

I believe my game with Reece will be a lot tougher game, both for me and for him. Reece recently took his IG army to a local 1500pt tournament and won the tournament with it. His IG army is somewhat unusual. You won't see vendettas or manticores in his army. As a matter of fact, you won't even see him spam chimeras. His list is based off of 6 leman russes backed by a whole lot of infantry. It is basically a foot-IG list backed by leman russ firepower and was designed as an anti-meta list. It was designed to make all those missile-spam, hive guard-spam, lance-spam and psyfleman-spam MSU lists irrelevant. You can check out his leman russ tactica here.

Both Reece and I are both necron and IG players so you can be sure we will know each other's strengths and weaknesses. We are both cunning generals and good tacticians so I think this will be a great match. Will Reece's IG have enough firepower to take out my numerous threats, or will my tactic of Maximum Threat Overload overrun his lines? Stay tuned.....


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2000 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs Reecius' Imperial Guards


2K Necrons (My list)



Anrakyr
Catacomb Command Barge
1x Cryptek - Harbinger of Destruction, Solar Pulse

Necron Overlord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Weave
Catacomb Command Barge
1x Cryptek - Harbinger of Destruction, Solar Pulse

5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors

10x Canoptek Scarabs
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster (Raveners)
5x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster (Raveners)

3x Canoptek Spyders - Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Doom Scythe (Vendetta)
Doom Scythe (Vendetta)


2K Imperial Guards



Lord Commissar - Camo Cloak, Power Fist

Platoon Command Squad - 4x Flamers
Infantry Squad - Lascannon, Power Weapon
Infantry Squad - Lascannon, Power Weapon
Infantry Squad - Lascannon, Power Weapon
Infantry Squad - Lascannon, Power Weapon
Infantry Squad - Lascannon, Power Weapon, Commissar w/Power Weapon
10x Penal Legions

10x Rough Riders - Power Weapon (Chaos Seekers)
2x Sentinels - 2x Autocannons, 2x Search lights

2x Leman Russ Demolisher - Hull Heavy Bolter
2x Leman Russ Executioner - Hull Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannon Sponsons
2x Leman Russ Russ - Hull Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons

I say the Guards are going to win lot more bllits flyingin your driecon

My list is a LOT different than you are used to seeing, but I love playing it!

I have been having success with it, so let's see if it can take Jim's Crons down?

From 1850, I added another platoon squad and a unit of Sentinels exactly to counter Scarab farm lists and for more anti-light mech (and because they are yet another unit you never see).

I would have added these to the list at 2K no matter who my opponent was, not just because it is Crons, so this isn't list Tailoring on my part, Sine Jim isn't running Imotekh, it wouldn't make that much of a difference, honestly.

I am excited to see how this plays out! No mater what, it will be a fun, challenging game as Jim and min always are.


IG 2000pts
Unit Description Size Cost
HQ
Lord Commissar Cloak, P.Fist 1 95

Troops
PCS Flamer x 4 5 50
Infantry Squad L.Cannon, P.Weapon 10 80
Infantry Squad L.Cannon, P.Weapon 10 80
Infantry Squad L.Cannon, Commissar, P.Weapon x 2 10 125
Infantry Squad L.Cannon, P.Weapon, Flamer 10 80
Infantry Squad L.Cannon, P.Weapon 10 80
Penal Legion 10 80

Elites

Fast Attack
Rough Riders P.Weapon 10 115
Sentinels A.Cannon x 2, Search Light x 2 2 82

Heavy Support
Demolisher H.H.Bolte 2 330
Executioner H.H.Bolter, P.Cannon Sponsons 2 460
Russ H.H.Bolter, Sponson H.Bolters x 2 2 340

Totals 84 1997

I'm betting on the Necrons here. With the Pulses, I don't expect more than one or two good turns of shooting for the Guard. If the CCB's and the Doomscythes aren't knocked out by then, those Russ are going to be hurting. The wraiths shouldn't have much trouble killing off the power-blob.

I'm gonna go the opposite way and say Guard. With Scout moving Sentinels and the attached Searchlights I foresee some early shooting on something important. That and the fact the Russes are not easy pickings, even with S10 AP1, you still need to roll a 4+ to damage them. The amount of S8+ on the guard side is also huge. Capable of insta-killing Wraiths, getting ordnance rolls vs AV13 and large blasts to rack up wounds on Scarabs...I think it's gonna be brutal.

My Analysis:

It will come down to who strikes first.

As so often happens with IG, the first roll to see who goes first is the most important. If I can strike him before he hits me, I will do massive damage.

With Searchlights on my Sentinels, I have a chance to cut through the Solar Pulse on one key unit per turn. So, we'll see!

This is obviously a unique IG list, means to spoil the meta game, but this will be a great test of its worth, as Scarab Farm lists tend to dominate IG (I play one myself!)

I think that so long as I can get my searchlights in place to take out key units early game, I will be fine. If not, it will be a tough battle. The Rough Riders will struggle with Wraiths, but they will be great for hunting down the little MSU scoring units.

If I can not cut through night fight, and Jim pulls off an alpha strike with his Night Scythes, and a charge with Wraiths and Scarabs, I am in deep $#!+!

Interested to see this one play out. Lucky for me, I got a front row seat haha.

Thanks, Reece, for your list and pre-game analysis. I will add your analysis here as well.


PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Necrons:
I don't think guards will stand a chance! My crons are going to rape them. I'm going to pull out so many shenanigan moves that his guardsmen won't be able to sit down for a week due to all the burt-hutt. Just kidding. Nothing like a good trash-talking to buildup our friendly rivalry.

Reece's guards is a most unusual army indeed. Then again, so are my necrons. In fact, we are both "anti-meta" armies in that both of our armies make most of the current pre-dominant AT useless.

But honestly, I think Reece will have his hands full. I've got 7 very fast threats waiting to alpha strike him - 2 lords on command barges, 2 doom scythes, 2 wraiths and my scarabs. Under the cover of 2 turns of Night-fight (3 counting Dawn of War deployment) and he won't be able to shoot me down in time. With only 1 searchlight, he may at most wipeout 1 unit a turn. That just isn't enough. He's going to have to count on tarpitting me with his super tarpit blob-squad, which I suspect is what he will do. However, if anything, I will tarpit his blob squad with my scarabs first, thus giving free reign to my wraiths to wreak havoc on the rest of his army.

My opponent will have an interesting dilemma. Should he spread out his tanks or castle them up? If he castles them up, he can screen them out with his blob squad. If he spreads them out, he won't be able to blob up to protect then. In that case, my guys will just go through his screening units like a hot knife through butter. I suspect he will spread them out to make me chase after them. But honestly, I'd probably just ignore them and go kill his troops.

Sentinels will deploy on the board with the rest of the army. It would be foolish to outflank them because I will already be on his units by Turn 2. The unit I really have to watch out for will be his rough riders. Those sneaky guys will be going after my weaker troops. Bah, let them. They will be able to kill 1 at most before I shoot them down with my other warriors.

To tell the truth, I think IG will be the underdog this game. They will only get 1 turn of good shooting before my crons are upon them. My army is just too fast and too many.

Now let's see if Reece can make me eat my own words come game day.


Imperial Guards: (by Reecius)
It will come down to who strikes first.

As so often happens with IG, the first roll to see who goes first is the most important. If I can strike him before he hits me, I will do massive damage.

With Searchlights on my Sentinels, I have a chance to cut through the Solar Pulse on one key unit per turn. So, we'll see!

This is obviously a unique IG list, means to spoil the meta game, but this will be a great test of its worth, as Scarab Farm lists tend to dominate IG (I play one myself!)

I think that so long as I can get my searchlights in place to take out key units early game, I will be fine. If not, it will be a tough battle. The Rough Riders will struggle with Wraiths, but they will be great for hunting down the little MSU scoring units.

If I can not cut through night fight, and Jim pulls off an alpha strike with his Night Scythes, and a charge with Wraiths and Scarabs, I am in deep $#!+!


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Mission: Kill Points (My very 1st KP game with my necrons!)

Deployment: Pitched Battle

Initiative: Necrons


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Here is a link to the video battle report on Reece's blog. It's got more in-depth commentary and thoughts on the game. Check it out!


http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/12/30/video-battle-report-threat-overload-necrons-jy2-vs-imperial-guard-leman-russ-list-reecius/


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Deployment:

Map of the terrain.


My deployment. Anrakyr to the left and Overlord to the right. I leave 3 units of warriors (what Reece would call the "grot squads") in reserves.


1 unit of warriors with both crypteks hide behind the ruins.


Reece's deployment. He blobs up all his infantry and join the Lord Commissar to them. Penal Legions will be outflanking.

Now this is a curious deployment, not at all what I thought he would do. I thought he would spread them out, with demolishers in the middle and the other 2 squadrons on the flanks. Castling up in the corner is just, as 1 poster put it in my other battle report (against Sisters of Battle), "it was his (necron's) whole armies wet dream in fact lol."

But Reece's reason for deploying as such is twofold. First, we are not playing objectives so he doesn't really need to advance at all.

Secondly, he was playing a refused flank strategy. Basically deploy to one flank and I will lose movement and shooting from the opposite flank. It buys him a little time to focus his entire army on my left flank while my right flank tries to catch up. He also deploys away from Anrakyr so I couldn't make his tanks fire at his own units....at least not for 1 or 2 turns.

Anyways, I think it is a big gamble on his part to deploy in such a fashion.


His rough riders (BTW they are cavalry) deploy near the middle.


Imperial Guards try to steal the initiative but fail.


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Necrons 1

Overlord moves flat-out. Spyders spawn 3 scarabs and one of the spyders take 1W.


One doom scythe (on my left) moves 12" and prepares to fire. The other doom scythe (to my right) moves 36" to prepare for a Turn 2 Death ray. The rest of my army advances.


Anrakyr moves flat-out as well. Necrons run.

My only shooting is 1 Death ray. I roll 9" for it but that is out of range of any of the IG units.


Imperial Guards 1
My cryptek envokes his Solar Pulse. It is now Night-fighting.


Rough riders advance.


Demolishers and sentinels move.


His blob squad fires 5 lascannons at my Overlord's command barge. Only 1 hits and then he rolls a 1 to penentrate its armor.

His sentinels use their searchlights and fire 4 autocannon shots at my doom scythe that had just fired (thus no cover). He fails to do anything to it.

His demolishers and normal russes fire at my wraiths as they both successfully pass their Night-fight tests. One of the battle cannon shots (or was it demolisher?) scatters onto my doom scythe (the one his sentinels failed to take out) and wrecks it. I lose 1 wraith and another wraith takes 1W I believe to his heavy bolters (and maybe 1 executioner plasma cannon scatter).

IG: 1, Necrons: 0


He then fires his plasmacutioners at my wraiths (once again, he sees them) and ends up killing 1 wraith. His plasma cannons also hit my scarabs 12 times. Basically, each save I fail will kill 2 scarab bases. Out of 12 hits, 8 wounds....and I only fail 1 3+ cover, thus only killing 2 scarabs.

Wow...not a good shooting phase for Reece at all.


Rough riders then charge my unit of 4 wraiths.


I do lose 1 wraith but send them packing after I kill 5 riders.

IG: 1, Necrons: 0


Necrons 2

2 units of warriors come in from reserves. They come in from the middle of my deployment zone and move into the crater.


Warriors with crypteks move up to the top level. (My converted crypteks are still waiting for the deathmark heads.)


Spyders spawn another 3 scarabs and the whole army advances.


Command barge cruises over one of the sentinels and back. Its sweeping attack explodes one of the sentinels. Overlord disembarks.


Wraiths get ready to pounce and my doom scythe gets ready to put the smackdown on his 3 tanks nicely lined up.


Anrakyr's barge only moves 12". He tries to commandeer one of the demolishers but fails his test to control it (rolled a 1).

I make a mistake here, which I didn't realize until writing this report. I fire my Tachyon Arrow at his demolisher and blow it up. However, this is illegal as passengers inside a transport cannot fire if the transport moves faster than combat speed.

So Reece, I apologize for this mistake.


Ok, here comes the real hurt....the doom scythe! Its Death ray goes through 3 tanks and glances all 3 of them. His regular russ makes its cover, so I immobilize 1 executioner, which then becomes a wreck as it is a squadron, and weapon destroy the other.


Finally, wraiths assault the sentinels and my Overlord his executioner.


I kill his sentinel....

IG: 1, Necrons: 1


....and wreck his executioner.

IG: 1, Necrons: 2


Imperial Guards 2

Overview of the bottom of Turn 2.


Penal legionnaires come in. BTW, they get rending and +1A.


Rough riders run off the board. PCS (platoon command squad) hides behind the demolisher.

IG: 1, Necrons: 3


Blob squad moves forwards.


Demolisher fires at my doom scythe. He also places the large blast such that it covers 2 wraiths. He immobilizes my doom scythe but fails to kill a wraith.

2 leman russes then also fire at doom scythe, covering 4 wraiths as well. Both are direct hits, but he only gets 2 weapon destroyed results! The doom scythe still lives! Also, my wraiths pass all 4 saves against his insta-killing battle cannon shots.

Reece just cannot get a break with his shooting.


A pistol shot puts 1W on a wraith.


Legionnaires charge my Overlord. He actually passes his mindshackle test, but only manages to put 1 rending wound on my Overlord, of which I successfully save against. I then whiff against his unit and only kill 1. He passes morale.


Now for the bloodbath.


Guardsmen beat my wraiths in combat. I kill 6 guardsmen and insta-gib his Lord Commissar. He kills 5 wraiths (though 2 of them only had 1W each).

Actually, I won combat. I forgot to factor in his 3-Wound HQ into combat resolution. Oh well. Fortunately, wraiths pass their No Retreat saves.

IG: 1, Necrons: 4


Guardsmen pile in.


Necrons 3

Last unit of warriors come in from reserves.


Spyders spawn another 3 scarabs. They get ready to assault the blob squad.


Anrakyr moves 24" and flies over his demolisher. I sweep attack and explode it. The explosion kills 1 from his platoon command squad.

IG: 1, Necrons: 5

I forget to use Anrakyr's Mind Over Machine power to take control his leman russ.

I've got no shooting this turn.


Scarabs assault. Tarpit versus tarpit. They both probably will stay locked in combat for the rest of the game.


1 legionnaire kills himself after getting mindshackled, and my Overlord kills another 2 legionnaires. They stay locked in combat.

IG: 1, Necrons: 5


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Right now, I've got a sizeable lead in Kill Points (5-1), with several more coming up (his PCS, the legionnaires and his leman russes). At best, he'll probably kill my 2 squads of wraiths and the immobilized, weaponless doom scythe for another 3 KP's. He can't win so my opponent decides to concede this game.




Victory to the Metallic Dead - Necrons!!!


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POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

Necrons:
For the most part, the game turned out kind of how I expected. I was able to apply a huge amount of pressure and I could tell during Reece's deployment that he was affected by it. I was expecting him to spread out, which was why I put my really fast units - my 2 barge lords and the 2 doom scythes - on the outside to threaten his flanking units (and also because they could react the fastest should he castle up to one flank). IMO, him deploying to my left flank actually benefitted me, as I really didn't have any shooting. This also prevented him from firing at my weaker troop units as I believe the terrain would have blocked his LOS. And then I think I surprised him when my far doom scythe went supersonic, moving 36" to take away his deployment advantage. Overall, his deployment really didn't do anything for him as I was still able to threaten him with my entire army on Turn 2 as I had originally planned.

What made this game different was, once again, the dice. While I don't think Reece rolled too poorly (IMO he rolled about average for the most part), I was rolling well for my armor/cover saves and also on the damage charts when I hurt his tanks. Overall, that helped to speed up the end of the game greatly. Otherwise, I think Reece would still be in the game and fighting til Turn 5 and maybe even beyond.

Once again, the doom scythes are proving their worth. Although I did lose 1 doom scythe because it failed to hit his tanks on Turn 1, the 2nd scythe helped to make up for this by basically disabling both executioners (which my Overlord then finished off). Dying was to be expected as long as they got something back in return, but the threat that they presented made them a positive net contribution overall. They are definitely proving that they belong in my Maximum Threat Overload strategy, even after just 2 games.

I'm really liking Anrakyr, especially for the threat that he represents. He just has so many ways to kill tanks - sweeping attack with his barge and disembark, use Mind Over Machine to control another tank to fire upon their own, fire his Tachyon Arrow and then assault. Under ideal conditions, he could potentially take out 3 tanks in 1 turn! I think he fits in really well in my list.

My necrons are tough, however, they have yet to face Reece's toughest army....his Bjorn missile-wolves. Perhaps sometime in the future, along with a rematch of his guards now that he's personally experienced playing against my army.


Imperial Guards: (by Reecius)
Haha, the luck was nowhere near even! Jim made 11/12 saves on his Scarabs that would have killed 2 bases per shot. In the first few rounds of combat, he literally failed nearly no saves. I either missed, or he made a save, it was very frustrating.

And my night fight roles didn't have to be good, Jim advanced to within the average distance I needed to spot him. The average night fight roll is 21", we were closer than that in nearly every case.

With Jim rolling as hot with his saves as he was, there wasn't much I could do. Had I spread out, it may have gone better, but I assumed with averages, I would have been able to fight back, giving as good as I got. I assumed I would have been able to take out several of his units in this first turn, but it was just painful to see the dice go against me every single roll! Haha

My plan was to take out as many easy kill points as I could and rely on the resilience of my Blob to tie up some of his units. It just didn't work out that way, unfortunately.

But hey, it's a dice game.

Congratz to you, Jim! I look forward to a rematch.

Demolisher H.H.Bolter, Sponson P.Cannons x 2 2 460
Executioner H.H.Bolter 2 330

I take it that there's a typing error here between the types of LRs and their respective point cost.


Anyway, hurry up guys. All your fans are eagerly awaiting!!

I twas indeed! Haha, thanks for pointing that out.

RustyKnight wrote:I'm betting on the Necrons here. With the Pulses, I don't expect more than one or two good turns of shooting for the Guard. If the CCB's and the Doomscythes aren't knocked out by then, those Russ are going to be hurting. The wraiths shouldn't have much trouble killing off the power-blob.

Don't under-estimate his blob squad. 51 stubborn guys with LD10 and re-rolling morale means I won't break them any time soon. As a matter of fact, the only way for me to kill them is to assault with both units of wraiths and my scarabs. Otherwise, I'd probably be stuck there for a while and then his tanks and rough riders can go necron troop hunting.

MarshallDin wrote:

Demolisher H.H.Bolter, Sponson P.Cannons x 2 2 460
Executioner H.H.Bolter 2 330

I take it that there's a typing error here between the types of LRs and their respective point cost.


Anyway, hurry up guys. All your fans are eagerly awaiting!!

I believe it should be the executioners with the plasma sponsoons. The demolishers should be naked. Probably a bad copy and paste job?


@Reece:

Also, your list adds up to 1947 only.

I seem to be getting a habit on betting against Jy2 (no offense) He actually reminds me of my usual opponent who also plays draigowing with above average dice rolls.

The scarabs are difficult to kill before they manage to tarpit something, but it can be done with that much high strenght shooting.

I'm gonna have to go with necrons (just because I've had terrible luck vs them with my IG but then again I only played IG like a few weeks and run them like space marines lol >.<

jy2 wrote: We are both cunning generals and good tacticians

And humble too...

My money is on 'crons.

I gotta say crons looking at the lists, but I would say the IG list could be nasty against a less experianced opponent.

Since Necrons have the mobility I think they will win as they can use this to avoid Bad "Pie plates" and get into position to attack rear and side armor of Leman Russ. Rough Riders IMO should be taken out as early as possible as they can quickly threaten key elements, and hinder the flow of movement.

jy2 wrote: @Reece:

Also, your list adds up to 1947 only.

Oh, nevermind. I forgot to add in your PCS unit.

Vasara wrote:I seem to be getting a habit on betting against Jy2 (no offense) He actually reminds me of my usual opponent who also plays draigowing with above average dice rolls.

The scarabs are difficult to kill before they manage to tarpit something, but it can be done with that much high strenght shooting.

Executioners will be the bane of my scarabs. Double-wound insta-kills from 10 blast markers isn't going to be fun.

whitespirit wrote:Since Necrons have the mobility I think they will win as they can use this to avoid Bad "Pie plates" and get into position to attack rear and side armor of Leman Russ. Rough Riders IMO should be taken out as early as possible as they can quickly threaten key elements, and hinder the flow of movement.

Indeed. One of my tactics is to deny him his leman russ shots, and I'm not just talking about night-fight. You will see how I am going to do so in the report....maybe.

Regarding the rough riders, I'd probably ignore them until they get a little closer. I see them only as a threat to my warriors....who will probably be in reserves anyways.

This will be a very interesting to see! Wish it was Thursday now!

Looks like we are going to get spoiled for choice, with another written AND video battle report!

Can't say who I think will win it. Both lists are good, and both Generals are great. It'll probably come down to the dice rolls.

I'm sure we are in for a treat!

I'm going to go for the Guardsmen here, as a treadhead myself I can see that those blasts are going to give the Scarabs a bit of a run for their money, although the Solar Pulses could counteract this. I have to ask though, why are you taking a Gloom Prism when he has no psychic capabilities at all? Can't wait for the report though

Valkyrie wrote:I'm going to go for the Guardsmen here, as a treadhead myself I can see that those blasts are going to give the Scarabs a bit of a run for their money, although the Solar Pulses could counteract this. I have to ask though, why are you taking a Gloom Prism when he has no psychic capabilities at all? Can't wait for the report though

For wound allocation purposes, and because this is an all-comer's list.

Totally looking forward to this fight! i'm a close friend of the IG and will always support them to the bitter end! (unless Chaos has something better then just loyalty of course )

Anywayz, i see the executioners causin a bit of trouble for those scarabs and other things metal.

BTW i really do enjoy the fact these armies aren't like the many cookie-cutter armies out there like meltavet IG and such, things tend to get stale when everyone plays the samething and people tend to forget that other things can work as well.

Huh? The game hasn't been played yet?

Wow, jy, couldn't you just wait til Monday to post the entire thing at once?

I don't see how the IG could lose this one, but Jy2's opponents seem to find some cursed dice when they play him so it could go either way.

@ jy2 - I think you are a solid player so this matchup is very interesting to me. I hope you will also do a batrep versus a more conventional IG army to test the Necron mettle. About your list - I don't like min squads of Warriors for your core troops as I think there is a lot of cool stuff you can do with Necron troops - that said I'm certain your selection is based upon your wisdom. : )

Looking forward to the match !! Make sure to take lots of photos. I wanna see Reecius' army.

Vasara wrote:I seem to be getting a habit on betting against Jy2 (no offense) He actually reminds me of my usual opponent who also plays draigowing with above average dice rolls.

The scarabs are difficult to kill before they manage to tarpit something, but it can be done with that much high strenght shooting.

I can't be lucky all the time. Who knows, maybe today will be the day my dice deserts me. Doh!!!....Mustn't.....jinx....self.

CT GAMER wrote:

jy2 wrote: We are both cunning generals and good tacticians

And humble too...

My money is on 'crons.

Humble is my middle name! And "Awesomesauce God of War" is my nickname.

That's just to let the voters know that on generalship, we are about even.

metalgear1313 wrote:Totally looking forward to this fight! i'm a close friend of the IG and will always support them to the bitter end! (unless Chaos has something better then just loyalty of course )

Anywayz, i see the executioners causin a bit of trouble for those scarabs and other things metal.

BTW i really do enjoy the fact these armies aren't like the many cookie-cutter armies out there like meltavet IG and such, things tend to get stale when everyone plays the samething and people tend to forget that other things can work as well.

Honestly? I'm not too concerned with the executioners, though I probably should be. What I'm more concerned about are the tanks that will insta-gib my wraiths.

Kwi wrote:Huh? The game hasn't been played yet?

Wow, jy, couldn't you just wait til Monday to post the entire thing at once?

Lol. Honestly, as a fan and a writer, I am just as anxious to post this report (and play it) as you guys probably are to read it.

This time I also wanted to do something a little different. Whereas my usual batreps are done post-game with the results already known (to me), this time I wanted to share my anticipation pre-game along with the readers, sort of a vicarious experience if you will.

It's just something a little different that I wanted to try out.

Dok wrote:I don't see how the IG could lose this one, but Jy2's opponents seem to find some cursed dice when they play him so it could go either way.

Lol. It's not that bad...is it? But as I seem to recall in my battle against Reece last time, the dice was crazy for both of us. I'm hoping this time the dice will be a little more sane.

-666- wrote:@ jy2 - I think you are a solid player so this matchup is very interesting to me. I hope you will also do a batrep versus a more conventional IG army to test the Necron mettle. About your list - I don't like min squads of Warriors for your core troops as I think there is a lot of cool stuff you can do with Necron troops - that said I'm certain your selection is based upon your wisdom. : )

Looking forward to the match !! Make sure to take lots of photos. I wanna see Reecius' army.

That will probably be in the future. My next matchup will be against either my Crowe-Puriifers or Draigowing army.

But my army is an unconventional one as well, which may throw a lot of people off. Maybe it does take another unconventional list to deal with an unconventional list?

There are 2 main types of lists that I see for necrons. One that is troopcentric (such as Reece's own phalanx crons) which integrates them into the offense and buffs them up. The other is the more traditional 4th edition style in which the offense is focused on the other FOC's, with min-sized troop choices just for scoring purposes. Usually this type of list will just have the absolute minimum - 2 5-man troops. At least mine has 4 troops to increase resiliency. Then the rest of my army just focuses on applying a huge amount of pressure on my opponent.

it's Thursday ....

Clay Williams wrote:it's Thursday ....

I'm about to head out to Reece's shop. It's about an hour away.

Remember he is on West Coast time!

I need my battle reports NOW!!! =)

Clay Williams wrote:I need my battle reports NOW!!! =)

we're all on bat-rap-crack unfortunately. Don't hold out on us man! *weep weep*

Looking forward to the outcome on this one, but not going to bother with a prediction. Even with the skill level involved on both sides, I'm pretty sure as reecius mentioned a huge portion of the outcome will be dictated by who wins the roll to go first. Even with night fighting Reece's got a couple of nasty indirect fire templates, and some spotlights. Conversely, jy2 getting the charge after only eating one turn of shooting, and only indirect fire at that, is gonna hurt the guard blob, regardless of what Marvell says ("Nothing hurts the Bloooooooooooobbbbb!").

IG always win haha

Yeah this is batrep crack big time. Really good stuff.

: )

Feel sorry for me then - its already friday for me so your a day late!

Ok, I'm back. Working on battle report now.

jy2 wrote:Ok, I'm back. Working on battle report now.

Huzzah! This will be an interesting read as I'll be testing my 'Crons against IG here on Saturday...

Zid wrote:
Huzzah! This will be an interesting read as I'll be testing my 'Crons against IG here on Saturday...

I think you should be able to take his army no problem barring any extreme dice. Wraiths just don't care about those tl-lascannons.

The video report won't be ready until tomorrow, sorry guys. Still being edited.

No prob. Thanks for the game, Reece.

We'll do it again next time.

My written report will be out tonight, but also check out Reece's video batrep. It's got more in-depth commentary on the game.

jy2 wrote:

Zid wrote:
Huzzah! This will be an interesting read as I'll be testing my 'Crons against IG here on Saturday...

I think you should be able to take his army no problem barring any extreme dice. Wraiths just don't care about those tl-lascannons.

Its not the TL-Las that I worry about; its those vets with Demo charges! They'll make short work of my wraiths if he hits and wounds them all :( then lascannons can clean them up. I think it'll come down to how well my Teks can do silencing the guns early

Written battle report completed.

Stay tuned for Reecius' Video batrep coming up tomorrow.

Awesome report man, congrats on the win. I did think the IG would've done a better, but thems the breaks.
And as always; thanks for posting up a written report so I can read it at work, lol.

Dang once again I vote 'Crons and they win! I haven't voted against them yet and they continue to show that they can win! Either I am learning more about 40k or when I hit the vote button it magically bestows a win by that outcome.... I think I'm just learning Congrats on another Necron win Jy! And dang Reece, you keep giving him a run for his money! Keep up the good work guys! Now I just need to get a working Tau list and start putting up my own bat reps!

Congrats for the win. I was surprised that rouhg riders only managed to kill one wraith with their charge and then running of the board.

Good report, congratulations. I expected to see more decimation from the IG end of things but some bad dice rolls on Reece's part made sure that didn't happen. Tough break, but a well fought game none the less.

Jy2, I'm curious - Your deployment (centered, as you won the roll to go first) had Anrakyr on one flank of your line. Did you intend for Reece to refuse flank on the left because that side of the board would favor your army rather than his? Just a bit of tactics there, regardless of the intent it worked out for you.

Doesn't the doom scythe only have two guns, and a vehicle that is immobilized and has all of it's weapons destroyed a wreck, or is that only if the scythe suffers another weapon destroyed/immobilized?

Thanks for the report; was very interested in the outcome.

I play IG and honestly couldn't see this game going any other way than what happened, especially after seeing the deployment. I would have been tempted to spread out along the table edge with the tanks (with their rears against the edge) with a fair distance between them to prevent multi-charges, then blob up in-front with the infantry. Have RR/SS on the flanks (as that would be where the Scythes would want to be to get a decent Death Ray shot off). Harder to surround and multi-charge than corner-castle but harder to protect those expensive tanks with a thinly stretched line.

There is, like you say, too many threats to deal with in the Necron list- all of which are fast and lethal against the tanks. The IG list has too many points spent on the tanks, not enough on the supporting units. The IG list was looking at maybe 2 or 3 damage results against vehicles/equivalent a turn, that's not good. Especially when you have so many points spent in anti-infantry (executioners, battle tanks and arguably demolishers are all primarily anti-infantry) leaving just the BS3 lascannons and a couple of BS3 autocannons to do some heavy lifting.

I think lack of a CCS really hurt this list and the Lord Commissar is a rubbish choice over a standard infantry commissar - many more points and the enemy can snipe him in combat (not hard to do).
No real point in having him over a CCS if you're not going to use his aura for buffing heavy weapon squads IMO. The CCS twin-linking the lascannons could have made a difference.

Also, knowing about the CCB sweep attack, why not try and spread that blob out to make it nearly impossible to fly over any tanks? Surely there's enough bodies there to do it, even with the tanks spread out to mitigate death-ray damage (speculation on my part – I’ve not played against CCB/sweep attacks yet but that would be my first thought).

Night Fighting is a real kick in the teeth for the IG, especially against your list. That alone tilts the balance massively in your favour; although with how close most of your units got, there probably wasn't that much chance of not spotting anything (plus all the tanks & Sentinels have search lights).

Anyway, I didn't mean all the above as a criticism of your opponent, who did better than I thought, as I think the result here was never in doubt. It’s an alright Guard list against certain opponents like, Long Fang spam or GK Psyfleman-spam or whatever, but totally boned against your list. Ironically, I think a standard mech-vet/av12 spam list would have been much more effective against your Necrons – more targets, can spread out, more mobile so harder to CC, lots of special/heavy weapons & templates for the scarabs. I still think your list would take it, but there wouldn’t be a lot left afterwards.

Anyway, thanks for the report(s) – I will be sure to check out the video report when it’s done and I’m not elbow-deep in baby excrement.

I wonder which blunt bloke made that wet dream comment jy2?

How did you keep a straight face during his deployment that is my main question? Next week you guys should come play on my coffee table its 2' x 2' so it has more then enough room I new the result as soon as he deployed. I think that guard list seems better in theory then it is in play. The low KP structure also means he can't target many threats. With Reecius' abysmal rolling I think he should stick to armies with loads of fire and target saturation ha ha.

Very interesting... I figured the Russ-spam would have done a bit more damage! Sadly the game was decided after 2 turns :(

Zid wrote:Very interesting... I figured the Russ-spam would have done a bit more damage! Sadly the game was decided after 2 turns :(

Well victory in 40k is determined in the movement phase (my opinion anyway), so when one list remains in an immobile clump it's pretty easy to figure out who will win.

Great report. I know it is a hard habit to break, but castling up against an army that has a line of doom is probably a bad idea.

As well, blobs are for bubble wrap. That lord should not have been able to charge the russ line because there should have been a big line of stubborn dudes between him and them.

I think if you're going to do foot guard with russ support, you need to put more butts on the ground.


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Red Corsair wrote:

Zid wrote:Very interesting... I figured the Russ-spam would have done a bit more damage! Sadly the game was decided after 2 turns :(

Well victory in 40k is determined in the movement phase (my opinion anyway), so when one list remains in an immobile clump it's pretty easy to figure out who will win.

Yeah, he should have been at least doing the bumped shuffle over there.

Red Corsair wrote:

Zid wrote:Very interesting... I figured the Russ-spam would have done a bit more damage! Sadly the game was decided after 2 turns :(

Well victory in 40k is determined in the movement phase (my opinion anyway), so when one list remains in an immobile clump it's pretty easy to figure out who will win.

In some games, yes. In others, not so much... I really think the shooting phase is probably more decisive in many matches. But in this case, deployment it was basically decided lol

I think the luck was pretty even.

Good night fight rolls on reeces side while there were good saves on jy's side. Just about how I expected this to play out. The crons + night fight + fast movers really does kill the crap outa guard.

Video Battle Report:

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/12/30/video-battle-report-threat-overload-necrons-jy2-vs-imperial-guard-leman-russ-list-reecius/

Haha, the luck was nowhere near even! Jim made 11/12 saves on his Scarabs that would have killed 2 bases per shot. In the first few rounds of combat, he literally failed nearly no saves. I either missed, or he made a save, it was very frustrating.

And my night fight roles didn't have to be good, Jim advanced to within the average distance I needed to spot him. The average night fight roll is 21", we were closer than that in nearly every case.

With Jim rolling as hot with his saves as he was, there wasn't much I could do. Had I spread out, it may have gone better, but I assumed with averages, I would have been able to fight back, giving as good as I got. I assumed I would have been able to take out several of his units in this first turn, but it was just painful to see the dice go against me every single roll! Haha

My plan was to take out as many easy kill points as I could and rely on the resilience of my Blob to tie up some of his units. It just didn't work out that way, unfortunately.

But hey, it's a dice game.

Congratz to you, Jim! I look forward to a rematch.

Post-game Analysis and video batrep now up on p.1.


--------------------------------------------------------


@Reecius:

Thanks Reece. I've integrated your batrep link into my batrep on p.1 and your comments into my Post-game Analysis as well.

jy2 has a golden horse shoe shoved up his arse.


Automatically Ape-O-Matic Mode:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:IG always win haha

Not this time.

Yeah the video did help clear up a bit more of what was going on with the dice.

I have to say though that deployment was a blunder. If your strat dependeds on one turn of defense you are taking a huge gamble that he wouldnt roll well on saves. I play guard a good bit and yeah its mostly leaf blower. When I go against armies that want to close the gap I always ALWAYS spread my forces.

I noticed Reecius takes some crazy gambles on deployment that has cost him some games. Too aggressive for his own good sometimes. He really made it easy for the Necrons after the gambit failed.

I think for a rematch you need to play against a tried and tested list like his Bjorn wolves or something. Or maybe Franky's Nurgle army, I think your necron list is very solid and deserves a more Tourney resilient list.

Dash2021 wrote:Even with night fighting Reece's got a couple of nasty indirect fire templates, and some spotlights.

I don't believe he had any indirect fire weappons, not that it really mattered in the game.

Benamint wrote:Dang once again I vote 'Crons and they win! I haven't voted against them yet and they continue to show that they can win! Either I am learning more about 40k or when I hit the vote button it magically bestows a win by that outcome.... I think I'm just learning Congrats on another Necron win Jy! And dang Reece, you keep giving him a run for his money! Keep up the good work guys! Now I just need to get a working Tau list and start putting up my own bat reps!

If you like the Tau, you should check out some of my batreps against Gus' and SabrX's Tau. IMO, Tau are still a formidable codex and very worthy adversary despite their age.


2000pts The Greater Knights vs the Greater Good

2000pts The Greater Knights vs the Greater Good Part II

2000pts - 5-Dread Purifier Grey Knights vs 9-Broadside Tau

2500pts Ard Boyz Preliminaries - Grey Knights (on p. 4 vs Gus' Tau)

2500 Jy2's Ard Boyz Semi-finals Thread (on p. 4 vs SabrX's Tau)

Vasara wrote:Congrats for the win. I was surprised that rouhg riders only managed to kill one wraith with their charge and then running of the board.

I'm not. With 3++ invuln's, whip coils and wound allocation, I didn't expect them to make much of a dent to my wraiths at all. Though if my saves were more average, I probably should have taken another wound on my wraiths.

tetrisphreak wrote:Good report, congratulations. I expected to see more decimation from the IG end of things but some bad dice rolls on Reece's part made sure that didn't happen. Tough break, but a well fought game none the less.

Jy2, I'm curious - Your deployment (centered, as you won the roll to go first) had Anrakyr on one flank of your line. Did you intend for Reece to refuse flank on the left because that side of the board would favor your army rather than his? Just a bit of tactics there, regardless of the intent it worked out for you.

I was expecting Reece to spread out his army. That was why I spread out my army. I put my fastest units on the ends so that I could still hit him had he decided to flank his tanks on the 2 opposite corners. They also had the speed to react had he decided to deploy all in 1 flank as well.

The placement of Anrakyr was arbitrary. I didn't really do it to "encourage" my opponent to deploy on 1 flank, though it certainly did ended up that way. Honestly, I wasn't expecting him to castle in the corner like he did, but was pleasantly surprised when he did so.

ofstatic wrote:Doesn't the doom scythe only have two guns, and a vehicle that is immobilized and has all of it's weapons destroyed a wreck, or is that only if the scythe suffers another weapon destroyed/immobilized?

It doesn't automatically become a wreck after it gets immobilized and loses all of its guns. It would take 1 more weapon destroy or immobilized result to wreck it.

@-666-
I do take big gambles in games frequently, I find it makes games more interesting! As we like to say, "you have to risk it to get the biscuit!"

This time, I didn't get the biscuit! Hahaha.

Seriously though, most games I lose is for that exact reason. I take a risk on a game winning move that back fires. I am OK with it though, as when it works out, it is so much fun.

@Thread
Perhaps spreading out would have been the better call. It would have allowed me to spread Jim out a bit and go for easier kill points as his Grot Squads came on the board.

My plan was to deny him a turn of shooting (which worked) and then essentially Alpha Strike him with my entire army hoping to do enough damage to then be able to tie up his key units with the Blob squad and win.

That didn't work out so well! Hahaha.

I was surprised the Rough Riders didn't hold. I should have killed more of the Wraiths from shooting, but Jim didn't fail a single ID save on them from all my templates. I charged in such a way to minimize the Whip Coil impact, but Jim passed 6 of 8 saves and I failed 4 of 4.

Had we both rolled average, it would have been a tie combat (which is what I was assuming) and that combat would have been in the way of his Scarabs and Wraiths, buying me another turn to shoot.

That didn't work out, either! hahaha

Plus, Jim was killing tanks with a single shot every time he did something to them, apart from once. It was painful.

In retrospect, bubble wrapping the tanks may have been a smart play but I wanted to retain some mobility with both the blob and the tanks. That turned out to not help me in this case, that that may have been a big mistake.

But in the end, it was a fun game (frustrating for me due to the stupid dice!) but I don't mind losing. I like to experiment and play good players, both of which mean I am going to lose form time to time. I think you learn more from a loss often.

I look forward to our next match, Jim!

evilbishop wrote:Thanks for the report; was very interested in the outcome.

I play IG and honestly couldn't see this game going any other way than what happened, especially after seeing the deployment. I would have been tempted to spread out along the table edge with the tanks (with their rears against the edge) with a fair distance between them to prevent multi-charges, then blob up in-front with the infantry. Have RR/SS on the flanks (as that would be where the Scythes would want to be to get a decent Death Ray shot off). Harder to surround and multi-charge than corner-castle but harder to protect those expensive tanks with a thinly stretched line.

There is, like you say, too many threats to deal with in the Necron list- all of which are fast and lethal against the tanks. The IG list has too many points spent on the tanks, not enough on the supporting units. The IG list was looking at maybe 2 or 3 damage results against vehicles/equivalent a turn, that's not good. Especially when you have so many points spent in anti-infantry (executioners, battle tanks and arguably demolishers are all primarily anti-infantry) leaving just the BS3 lascannons and a couple of BS3 autocannons to do some heavy lifting.

I think lack of a CCS really hurt this list and the Lord Commissar is a rubbish choice over a standard infantry commissar - many more points and the enemy can snipe him in combat (not hard to do).
No real point in having him over a CCS if you're not going to use his aura for buffing heavy weapon squads IMO. The CCS twin-linking the lascannons could have made a difference.

Honestly, no deployment is foolproof. Whether castling or spreading out, each deployment strategy has its pros and cons. I think that spreading out may have worked out a little better than castling against my army, but that is not a guarantee that he would have done better. In this case, he took a gamble with his deployment but it just didn't pan out, especially when I was making my saves.

He didn't really have a whole lot of ranged AT, but against my army, that was actually ok. That's because I don't run a mech-heavy necron list. Honestly, I wished he had brought more autos and lascannons as I felt his blast markers were much more dangerous to my army than his AT.

I can see why he chose the Lord Commissar for his army and I think it does fit his list, especially if he decides not to blob up. I myself use CCS but that is just my preference.

evilbishop wrote:Also, knowing about the CCB sweep attack, why not try and spread that blob out to make it nearly impossible to fly over any tanks? Surely there's enough bodies there to do it, even with the tanks spread out to mitigate death-ray damage (speculation on my part – I’ve not played against CCB/sweep attacks yet but that would be my first thought).

Night Fighting is a real kick in the teeth for the IG, especially against your list. That alone tilts the balance massively in your favour; although with how close most of your units got, there probably wasn't that much chance of not spotting anything (plus all the tanks & Sentinels have search lights).

I guess one of the reasons why he didn't screen out his tanks was because he wanted cover for his infantry. He was concerned about Anrakyr's Mind Over Machine power. I could've potentially controlled his plasmacutioner and have it fire on his own infantry. If they were out of cover, 5 plasma cannon shots would've killed a lot of them.

The Deathray potentially had a 27"-42" range. Move 12", pick a point 12" away and then roll 3D6" for the distance fired. If I get close enough, his blob squad wouldn't have been able to stop my death ray from hitting his tanks, though it may have minimized the damage I could've done with my command barges.

Night-fighting wasn't too big an issue. As I was advancing aggressively towards his lines, that meant he had a good chance to see my wraiths. Average night-fight is about 21.5" and my wraiths were about 15"-18" away, though it would've been an issue had he tried to fire at anything other than my wraiths.

evilbishop wrote:Anyway, I didn't mean all the above as a criticism of your opponent, who did better than I thought, as I think the result here was never in doubt. It’s an alright Guard list against certain opponents like, Long Fang spam or GK Psyfleman-spam or whatever, but totally boned against your list. Ironically, I think a standard mech-vet/av12 spam list would have been much more effective against your Necrons – more targets, can spread out, more mobile so harder to CC, lots of special/heavy weapons & templates for the scarabs. I still think your list would take it, but there wouldn’t be a lot left afterwards.

Totally agree. I think I would also match up well against chimelta/vendetta-spam, though I am concerned about manticores. That may be perhaps the best single unit in the guard codex to deal with my army.



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Red Corsair wrote:I wonder which blunt bloke made that wet dream comment jy2?

How did you keep a straight face during his deployment that is my main question? Next week you guys should come play on my coffee table its 2' x 2' so it has more then enough room I new the result as soon as he deployed. I think that guard list seems better in theory then it is in play. The low KP structure also means he can't target many threats. With Reecius' abysmal rolling I think he should stick to armies with loads of fire and target saturation ha ha.

Not really. It wasn't until after his first turn of shooting did I find that my face was starting to twitch somewhat.

Reece's list works against many of the more common and typical tournament builds. My list was anything but common or typical. You could say that we both played oddball lists that "went-against-the-tournament-grain".

Red Corsair wrote:
Well victory in 40k is determined in the movement phase (my opinion anyway), so when one list remains in an immobile clump it's pretty easy to figure out who will win.

That's true in any mission but Annihilation. But after playing less mobile armies for a while (grey knights and shooty nids), I'm loving the mobility of my wraithwing crons. It's going to be hard to go back to those slower armies now.



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pretre wrote:Yeah, he should have been at least doing the bumped shuffle over there.

Doing so would have lost him 5 lascannon shots per turn as well as reduced his range to 12". Heavy weapon guards is just not a mobile army no matter how you put it. It's just a style one has to accept when playing them.

Zid wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:

Zid wrote:Very interesting... I figured the Russ-spam would have done a bit more damage! Sadly the game was decided after 2 turns :(

Well victory in 40k is determined in the movement phase (my opinion anyway), so when one list remains in an immobile clump it's pretty easy to figure out who will win.

In some games, yes. In others, not so much... I really think the shooting phase is probably more decisive in many matches. But in this case, deployment it was basically decided lol

It really depends on the army build. Some armies inherently weak in 1 phase compensates by being strong in another. Guards give up assault and some mobility for high firepower. My Draigowing gives up mobility for decent shooty and dangerous assault. My MTO necrons are highly mobile and decent in assault at the expense of almost no shooting. It is a balancing act that each general always need to take into account when running his particular army. It's just the price that must be paid if you want to run a certain build and the general truly needs to know his army's strengths and limitations.

Clay Williams wrote:I think the luck was pretty even.

Good night fight rolls on reeces side while there were good saves on jy's side. Just about how I expected this to play out. The crons + night fight + fast movers really does kill the crap outa guard.

While I don't think Reece's luck was too bad (compared to my Draigowing-vs-mechdar match), my luck was definitely above-average. Even though he passed all his Night-fight rolls, he still couldn't do enough damage to me thanks to my superb saves.

-666- wrote:jy2 has a golden horse shoe shoved up his arse.

Didn't you know that I sh*t nuggets?

Red Corsair wrote:I think for a rematch you need to play against a tried and tested list like his Bjorn wolves or something. Or maybe Franky's Nurgle army, I think your necron list is very solid and deserves a more Tourney resilient list.

Reece' Bjorn wolves would have definitely been a challenge, but no offense to Frankie, my crons would've killed his Nurgle army IMO. Kill the princes with wraiths, tarpit his troops with scarabs for the rest of the game and pick out his oblits with my CCB lords and doom scythes.

@Jy2- Thanks! I really have been having a hard time finding some good Tau bat reps. All the ones I've been seeing the Tau get steam rolled...... Repeatedly...... Soon enough I will be having my own battles vs. GK and SW mainly. I'm very grateful of your helps seeing as I need tactical tips and list ideas. I personally think any army can be a tough opponent (at least in friendly games) under the right general.

Reecius wrote:@-666-
I do take big gambles in games frequently, I find it makes games more interesting! As we like to say, "you have to risk it to get the biscuit!"

This time, I didn't get the biscuit! Hahaha.

Seriously though, most games I lose is for that exact reason. I take a risk on a game winning move that back fires. I am OK with it though, as when it works out, it is so much fun.

I think that is a sign of a truly good player. You need to know when to play it safe and when to take risks. In the case when you're overmatched, IMO you have to take the gamble.

Several case in points, my "unoptimized" necrons (with something like 35 gauss immortals and only 1 CCB, 1 unit of wraiths, 1 unit of destroyers and 1 unit of 3 spyders+10 scarabs) versus Ghazzies' battlewagon orks. I was overmatched there but took a big risk when I took the fight to him. If I hadn't taken the risk and played aggressively against a much more aggressive army, he would've overran me.

Then there was the Ard Boyz practice game between my Crowe-Purifiers against a 12 cyclone ML, 45+ Assault terminator Deathwing army. Again, I took a huge gamble and took the fight to him when most people would've probably hung back and tried to shoot them to death. Had I not done that, I wouldn't have been in position to claim the objectives.

Then there was the time my nids went up against my friend's paladin army. I was thoroughly dominating him until he decided to take a big gamble and assaulted his dreadknight into my lines. He ended up going through 2 tervigons, my tyrannofex and 1 unit of hive guards for 4KP's and the win.

Sometimes, when you don't "go against the grain" in terms of strategy against a superior army,. you won't be able to win. In these types of matchups, you need to take a gamble just to have a reasonable chance for victory. Not to be more cliched or nothing, but sometimes you have to take a gamble because the juice is worth the squeeze, at least if you want to win.




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Benamint wrote:@Jy2- Thanks! I really have been having a hard time finding some good Tau bat reps. All the ones I've been seeing the Tau get steam rolled...... Repeatedly...... Soon enough I will be having my own battles vs. GK and SW mainly. I'm very grateful of your helps seeing as I need tactical tips and list ideas. I personally think any army can be a tough opponent (at least in friendly games) under the right general.

No prob. Both of my opponents - Gus and SabrX - are great Tau generals. SabrX his designed a seriously good Tau list with lots of kroots. I really like his army.

@Jy2- So I see! Guess it isn't so odd for me to have 80 Kroot then... Now I need 1 more FW and suits/ Rail heads! Oh and 2 more Piranhas

@Evilbishop
I agree with a lot of your points, but I intentionally took a weird IG list. It is built to beat the current meta lists (and I recently won a tournament with them).

Jim wanted to try his crons against my list just to have some fun and see how it would go.

I have won several tournaments and a GT with my IG, so I do know how to build a "normal" IG list, no problem. I just like to try new things.

Had my gambit paid off with my deployment, I would have bought myself 2-3 turns of shooting, and it would have looked a lot different.

However, it didn't. My risk didn't pan out and I got smashed! Haha, that is the way it goes sometimes.

A CCS would be great, no question, and in this game would have been a lot better. However, I don't change my list for my opponent as you can't do that in a tournament. I played the list I played to win the RTT I brought it to.

There, the Commissar lord is awesome as he makes the blob basically invincible for all intents and purposes, and he adds a lot of punch in HtH, and is a much harder KP to get.

This was just a really bad match-up for that particular unit.

Like I said, I don't mind losing when I am trying out new ideas. I don't like it at all, but that is the price you pay when trying to innovate.

When it works, it is great! Everyone said Bjorn was terrible, and then I got 4th place at Adepticon with a Bjorn list, and won several GTs and all of a sudden people were using Bjorn lists all over the place! That is cool to me, to see a "common sense" notion turned on its head, and then for people to have fun playing something different.

If it wins big people will copy it. I would like to see a rematch.

Very interesting list. I'm surprised how few kps Reece got since this army won a recent tournament. My wraith list is a little different and it's only 1750. I'm running 18 wraiths some praetorians and a couple doom scythes with imotek. I plan to fight reecius tier wolves in a test run very soon

Defeatmyarmy wrote:Very interesting list. I'm surprised how few kps Reece got since this army won a recent tournament. My wraith list is a little different and it's only 1750. I'm running 18 wraiths some praetorians and a couple doom scythes with imotek. I plan to fight reecius tier wolves in a test run very soon

Honestly, in my opinion, I don't think Immotehk adds a whole lot to a wraithwing list. You'll close in on the enemy too fast to really make use of more than 1 turn of night fight and Immo's lightning storm is too unreliable to use. Praetorians just aren't a very good unit and their shooting is made void by the wraiths getting into combat too quickly.

If you want, you can post your list here or PM me and I will critique it. But no matter what you bring to support your wraiths, it'll still be interesting to see how 18 wraiths backed up my 2 doom scythes will do. My guess is that they will carry the majority of the offensive load.

Congrats winning jy2. Your dice are hot! Solar Pulse gives assault-oriented Necrons a fighting chance against shooty-heavy armies.

Awesome list reecius, you'll vanquish the xenos scum next time with better dice and deployment.

Got to ask, have you considered running the tanks in mixed squadrons?

SabrX wrote:Congrats winning jy2. Your dice are hot! Solar Pulse gives assault-oriented Necrons a fighting chance against shooty-heavy armies.

Yeah, IMO Solar Pulse is a necessity in any non-Immotehk lists.

I have a bad taste in my mouth that is getting worse by the minute as more and more reports seem to support that Necrons are better suited for assault then shooting. Call me old school but this just doesn't seem right. Now I am scared to see where they take the Tau lol. Most mobile force in 40k perhaps? Best psykers, anything can happen at this point.

I was ready to put the Grey Knights away for good as I think they can be a bit over the top, but this type of Necron list means I can't. The Grey Knights have enough str 6 weapons to decimate the Scarabs while all the instant death CCW will be able to handle the Wraiths.

Ah sooooooo disappointed! :( I thought of all people Reecius would be able to put up a good fight against the crons with his IG. I had the IG winning it until I saw the deployment, I would have favored a more spread deployment like the other said. I could see reccius deployment pulling off if he had been a little less unlucky, still the right idea to try and hide the vehicles. Oh well, a shame a little more luck didn't go reecius way in this one. It was a nice rep still, showed that the crons have more than the scarab farm in their arsenal

Red Corsair wrote:I have a bad taste in my mouth that is getting worse by the minute as more and more reports seem to support that Necrons are better suited for assault then shooting. Call me old school but this just doesn't seem right.

Necrons are still effective as a shooty army, but they are formidable built for assault.

Now I am scared to see where they take the Tau lol. Most mobile force in 40k perhaps? Best psykers, anything can happen at this point.

Not if the rumors of cruddace writing the Tau codex turns out to be true.

DarthDiggler wrote:I was ready to put the Grey Knights away for good as I think they can be a bit over the top, but this type of Necron list means I can't. The Grey Knights have enough str 6 weapons to decimate the Scarabs while all the instant death CCW will be able to handle the Wraiths.

Yeah, I think Grey Knights have the best chance against the new Necrons be it shooty or wraith-wing and/or scarab swarm. Tyranids still have a good chance, as Janthkin has already proven. There's also Daemons of Chaos (fate-weaver), Ork horde, and heavy Terminator lists to consider.

darkcloud92 wrote:Ah sooooooo disappointed! :( I thought of all people Reecius would be able to put up a good fight against the crons with his IG. I had the IG winning it until I saw the deployment, I would have favored a more spread deployment like the other said. I could see reccius deployment pulling off if he had been a little less unlucky, still the right idea to try and hide the vehicles. Oh well, a shame a little more luck didn't go reecius way in this one. It was a nice rep still, showed that the crons have more than the scarab farm in their arsenal

Even Reecius isn't immune to bad luck. Perhaps it's bad karma from his foot-dar versus Dark Angels game.

SabrX wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:I have a bad taste in my mouth that is getting worse by the minute as more and more reports seem to support that Necrons are better suited for assault then shooting. Call me old school but this just doesn't seem right.

Necrons are still effective as a shooty army, but they are formidable built for assault.

Lack of low AP long range weaponry and the undercosted scarabs, wraiths AND meta altering solar pulses in the mix would suggest otherwise.



I think Cruddace will do better on the Tau as he has taken soooooo much flack for his past work plus in't Kelley working on it as well?

Red Corsair wrote:
Lack of low AP long range weaponry and the undercosted scarabs, wraiths AND meta altering solar pulses in the mix would suggest otherwise.

Let's face it, unless you are IG (and even they can put together fairly scary assault blobs), a codex needs to have solid assault capability in today's game. We don't have the turboboosting, 36" triple shot AP3 gauss cannons anymore, but there are a lot of new tools available and necrons can be built just as shooty as ever. They just need to be employed differently than they were before.

Yeah, Shooty Space Wolves and Assaulting Necrons! Haha, what is the world coming to?

It wasn't just bad luck that cost me the game, Jim had the better list and he played smart.

I still like the IG list, and would gladly take it to another tournament. This was probably my worst match-up, but it is good to play through bad match-ups to see how best to play them.

@Almarine
No, I have not considered mixed squadrons, actually. I like to keep like weapons firing together so that I don't find myself in a situation where Some of the guns can't hurt what you shoot at.

Just wait till someone puts together a good necron list with TombBlades. Thats just like the necrons though, slow but implacable troops distract you and box you in, then lightning fast and powerful vehicles/constructs kill you before you know they're there.

Red Corsair wrote:I have a bad taste in my mouth that is getting worse by the minute as more and more reports seem to support that Necrons are better suited for assault then shooting. Call me old school but this just doesn't seem right. Now I am scared to see where they take the Tau lol. Most mobile force in 40k perhaps? Best psykers, anything can happen at this point.

I think that GW nerfed the crons just by making their gauss blasters rapid-fire. If only they had left them at assault 2 (they wouldn't even need tesla carbines), I'd be happy to play shooty crons. But alas, GW made the best units in the codex non-necron units (without Reanimation Protocols).

DarthDiggler wrote:I was ready to put the Grey Knights away for good as I think they can be a bit over the top, but this type of Necron list means I can't. The Grey Knights have enough str 6 weapons to decimate the Scarabs while all the instant death CCW will be able to handle the Wraiths.

IMO the GK's are still top dog. They match up well against necrons. It should be a tough battle even for my Maximum Threat Overload crons against a balanced GK list (or Draigowing) run by a competent general.

SabrX wrote:Yeah, I think Grey Knights have the best chance against the new Necrons be it shooty or wraith-wing and/or scarab swarm. Tyranids still have a good chance, as Janthkin has already proven. There's also Daemons of Chaos (fate-weaver), Ork horde, and heavy Terminator lists to consider.

Grey Knights just have the tools to handle almost every build out there. I think nids and daemons also match up well against necrons in general, though they may have a little trouble against my MTO crons. Horde orks will give almost any non-purifier-spam lists problems. Finally, necrons will have problems in general against 2+ armies that can insta-gib their wraiths and scarabs.

Red Corsair wrote:
Lack of low AP long range weaponry and the undercosted scarabs, wraiths AND meta altering solar pulses in the mix would suggest otherwise.

What I think really hurts necron is the loss of assault gauss blasters. Immortals are good, but just to make them viable you need to have a phaeron lord with them. Teslas are no where near as good as the older edition's gauss blasters. If only GW didn't change the gauss blaster, I think you will see more immortal lists and hence, more shooty necrons.

As it is, I don't think you will see many shooty necron builds winning major tournaments. They just don't have what it takes.

I have to say I disagree with that last statement of yours jy2. I run pure shooty crons and have had nothing but success so far. Admittedly I haven't played that many games yet but the ones I have played are vs the local tournament champion. He's been running DE and I have won all the games so far. Admittedly luck in some cases has been a factor, but in my opinion they are more than capable of competing at the top level.

Maelstrom808 wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:
Lack of low AP long range weaponry and the undercosted scarabs, wraiths AND meta altering solar pulses in the mix would suggest otherwise.

Let's face it, unless you are IG (and even they can put together fairly scary assault blobs), a codex needs to have solid assault capability in today's game. We don't have the turboboosting, 36" triple shot AP3 gauss cannons anymore, but there are a lot of new tools available and necrons can be built just as shooty as ever. They just need to be employed differently than they were before.

With regards to assault, not necessarily true. Some of the more competitive lists out there are MSU-shooty builds with little assault. Long-fang-spam space wolves, AV13+razor-spam BA, venom-spam DE, GK psyfleman-henchman razor-spam, mechguards....all are successful builds without relying on assault as a major factort in their lists. Also, Tau is another army that can do fairly well under a competent general without relying on any assault. It all has to do with the proper use of screening units and vehicles.

Necrons, on the other hand, do need to rely on assault to open up tanks. Otherwise, the most they will do is stunlock enemy vehicles. Doom scythes and doomsday arks just aren't enough.

Exalted Pariah wrote:Just wait till someone puts together a good necron list with TombBlades. Thats just like the necrons though, slow but implacable troops distract you and box you in, then lightning fast and powerful vehicles/constructs kill you before you know they're there.

That's an interesting unit that I must try out one of these days.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lukus83 wrote:I have to say I disagree with that last statement of yours jy2. I run pure shooty crons and have had nothing but success so far. Admittedly I haven't played that many games yet but the ones I have played are vs the local tournament champion. He's been running DE and I have won all the games so far. Admittedly luck in some cases has been a factor, but in my opinion they are more than capable of competing at the top level.

I am not saying that shooty crons aren't competitive. They can still win. However, the way that the codex was designed, shooting is not the primary strength of the army. They cannot and will not outshoot other shooty armies, especially the MSU builds, nor do they have the shooting to handle FNP armies as well as 2+ armies. In order to compete with the top-tier lists, they need units such as wraiths and scarabs, who are their best assault, tarpit and also anti-tank units as well.

Also, IMO DE is a favorable matchup for tesla-destructor crons. You have the mobility to match theirs, and the flaws of a S7 AP- are overshadowed by the flaws of AV10 open-topped transports.

Again I disagree. If you take Wraiths you still struggle to deal with 2+ saves and FnP. Yes they are great all rounders but they still aren't S8 and will struggle vs fast moving vehicles. While we may not be able to field that many Crypteks they at least bring some S8 and can be put into units so they are hidden and can be screened very easily with other vehicles or cheaper Scarabs. They are also cheaper than Wraiths. Night Scythes also give them a degree of mobility and even safety that can get them out of unfavorable situations since they go back into reserve if the transport gets destroyed. Vs other mechanized builds I believe that night fight can be used to great effect to knock out sections of your opponents army at a time.

Take purifiers for example. Their dreadnoughts can be effectively neutered for 2 turns while you use your entire army to crack open a couple of transports and deal with the contents. After that it becomes a very one sided fight.

jy2 wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:
Lack of low AP long range weaponry and the undercosted scarabs, wraiths AND meta altering solar pulses in the mix would suggest otherwise.

Let's face it, unless you are IG (and even they can put together fairly scary assault blobs), a codex needs to have solid assault capability in today's game. We don't have the turboboosting, 36" triple shot AP3 gauss cannons anymore, but there are a lot of new tools available and necrons can be built just as shooty as ever. They just need to be employed differently than they were before.

With regards to assault, not necessarily true. Some of the more competitive lists out there are MSU-shooty builds with little assault. Long-fang-spam space wolves, AV13+razor-spam BA, venom-spam DE, GK psyfleman-henchman razor-spam, mechguards....all are successful builds without relying on assault as a major factort in their lists. Also, Tau is another army that can do fairly well under a competent general without relying on any assault. It all has to do with the proper use of screening units and vehicles.

Necrons, on the other hand, do need to rely on assault to open up tanks. Otherwise, the most they will do is stunlock enemy vehicles. Doom scythes and doomsday arks just aren't enough.

I agree completely, which is why I said a codex needs it, and not a list. Within a gaming circle, if you run that same list over and over again, eventually someone is going to come up to the table with a direct counter. You need the option to be able to switch it up. All of those lists (I think the Tau one is kind of a bad example as while they can certainly do well, as really any army can, they are generally near the bottom of the food chain) have the option of integrating a pretty dedicated, fairly plug and play assault unit, just in case. It's something I have to account for in almost every matchup..and the ones that I don't have to account for it (playing against a tau player, or playing against someone who I know just loves to shoot things to bits) always seem to make for an easier game for me. That's just basing it on my experience within a group of players, and is not representative of everyone's experience, but I think that outside the tournament scene, it will be representative of more people than not.

Then again, it could just be me

Lukus83 wrote:Again I disagree. If you take Wraiths you still struggle to deal with 2+ saves and FnP. Yes they are great all rounders but they still aren't S8 and will struggle vs fast moving vehicles. While we may not be able to field that many Crypteks they at least bring some S8 and can be put into units so they are hidden and can be screened very easily with other vehicles or cheaper Scarabs. They are also cheaper than Wraiths. Night Scythes also give them a degree of mobility and even safety that can get them out of unfavorable situations since they go back into reserve if the transport gets destroyed. Vs other mechanized builds I believe that night fight can be used to great effect to knock out sections of your opponents army at a time.

Take purifiers for example. Their dreadnoughts can be effectively neutered for 2 turns while you use your entire army to crack open a couple of transports and deal with the contents. After that it becomes a very one sided fight.

It'll probably require more playtesting and who knows....maybe you'll even prove me wrong. There's just really not enough data on shooty necrons. But judging from your experimental fast and shooty necron list, I just don't feel that they have what it takes to compete with some of the top tournament lists. You should try a test game against your own (or your friend's) grey knights.

Maelstrom808 wrote:
I agree completely, which is why I said a codex needs it, and not a list. Within a gaming circle, if you run that same list over and over again, eventually someone is going to come up to the table with a direct counter. You need the option to be able to switch it up. All of those lists (I think the Tau one is kind of a bad example as while they can certainly do well, as really any army can, they are generally near the bottom of the food chain) have the option of integrating a pretty dedicated, fairly plug and play assault unit, just in case. It's something I have to account for in almost every matchup..and the ones that I don't have to account for it (playing against a tau player, or playing against someone who I know just loves to shoot things to bits) always seem to make for an easier game for me. That's just basing it on my experience within a group of players, and is not representative of everyone's experience, but I think that outside the tournament scene, it will be representative of more people than not.

Then again, it could just be me

Yeah, flexibility is good. It makes for a much funner and more robust codex.

I do plan on playing vs a friends GK's. Only thing is he went back to the states for a month. So at the moment I'm just getting in games VS who is available, not that that's a bad thing mind.

Yeah, I know. Mark actually wanted to come up to northern California to play against me, but I don't think he was able to fit it into his schedule.

jy2 wrote:

I am not saying that shooty crons aren't competitive. They can still win. However, the way that the codex was designed, shooting is not the primary strength of the army. They cannot and will not outshoot other shooty armies, especially the MSU builds, nor do they have the shooting to handle FNP armies as well as 2+ armies. In order to compete with the top-tier lists, they need units such as wraiths and scarabs, who are their best assault, tarpit and also anti-tank units as well.

I think changes in 6th edition to how rapid fire weapons work will give a strong boost to Necron Immortal shooting.

jy2 wrote:Yeah, I know. Mark actually wanted to come up to northern California to play against me, but I don't think he was able to fit it into his schedule.

I wasn't aware he had taken his army/armies out with him. Shame he doesn't have the time, his stuff is beautifully painted and his lists are great to play against.

@Maelstrom808- Having one or two options that can be classified as assault units doesn't matter at all. Plug and play? How do you consider having an assault option from every slot plug and play? MS scarabs makes HQ/troop leaders effective in assault. Then there are flayed ones, scarabs, wraiths and tomb spyders. Oh sorry AND Lych guard/Praetorians. This isn't just a couple things they can default to, this is most of their infantry. Without vehicles it's hard to even consider shooting.

I am eager to see how those tomb blades work in a competitive environment, heck any environment! For 30pts you get a t5 jetbike with a st6 blast weapon....yes please!

I find it ironic that this unit is a scarab swarms kryptonite as well lol.

@-666- Until any concrete rumors are heard in respect to 6th I wouldn't hold my breathe. Besides any boost they would gain from rapid fire is moot as it helps MEQ across the board as well.

Necrons cannot lose. I voted for a necron win before I read the report.

Lukus83 wrote:

jy2 wrote:Yeah, I know. Mark actually wanted to come up to northern California to play against me, but I don't think he was able to fit it into his schedule.

I wasn't aware he had taken his army/armies out with him. Shame he doesn't have the time, his stuff is beautifully painted and his lists are great to play against.

No he didn't, but I offered to let him use mine (+ some proxies if necessary depending on his list).

Red Corsair wrote:
I am eager to see how those tomb blades work in a competitive environment, heck any environment! For 30pts you get a t5 jetbike with a st6 blast weapon....yes please!

So am I. I think tomb blades are a very good unit, just like the doom scythes. When I "retire" my MTO crons from casual play, and that will be real soon, I am going to try out other necron units like tomb blades and even the expensive Royalstar.

Red Corsair wrote:
I find it ironic that this unit is a scarab swarms kryptonite as well lol.

Worse than them are wraiths! At least scarabs will most likely get 3+ cover against tomb blades. Yes, wraiths IMO are better scarab killers, and they have no armor for scarabs to eat through!

Yea wraiths do handle scarabs well. I think it will be important from now on not only to field search lights but maybe even more importantly to bring some sort of scarab countering unit to at least tar pit them if not get rid of them.