Okay so I'm new to this. Well all of if. 40k, modeling, painting, assembling mini's and most of all scratch building
to a set scale. However I've been lurking on Dakka on and off since last September and have discovered some amazing things.
So I decided to pull up my belt and tuck into some of the ideas that have been floating through my head.

First I thought to start LARGE! A full 122mm X 183mm city game board!

... yea well when one has no money...

... So Small it is! I started with a stop in at my local dollar store after work yesterday and stocked up on a few things to get me
started. Since I have no idea how far I will go or how good things might turn out.

So with a piece of cork tile, some cheapo paint, wire, bristle board and brushes I headed home.
[Sorry ahead of time for the fuzzy photos. Will work on that.]


Today's goal is to build a small section of wall to act as cover to infantry. One of my friends and the man who actually got me
into wanting to explore 40k told me about the cork and what great concrete it makes.

I started by measuring the height of one of my fire-warriors (Approximately 30mm) and then drawing a line and cutting the board.



Then taking a marker I sketched out a rough explosion mark and cut it out (don't be to careful the rougher the better!)


At this point I knew for sure that one thickness wouldn't be enough so I used the first cut as a rough guide to make a second
layer. This made a thought I had for later easier to achieve. Remember to save the cut out piece for rubble placing it near the
explosion should hopefully make it more realistic.


The two pieces side by side with fire-warrior heading through!


They don't have to line up perfectly because it was an explosion after all!

Now onto painting it's just going to be grey at the moment for a base coat but will hopefully weather it up before done.


Now it should be dry after typing this all up!
Please give me feedback, comments and constructive criticism!
And sorry again all for the fuzzy photos...

Wow, nice effect, Im subscribed!

MaximusPrime - Thanks! Encouraged me to run back and do some more.

While I was waiting around I had some thoughts about more pieces to go together with the walls that will be made.
A plain Timmy's cup (Canadian coffee shop for those who have no idea what Timmy's is.) to me turned into a possible
watch tower (or at least the template for one). The bottom rim is the perfect height for a railing.


I was looking at it all excited (it's one of their new XL sized cups and almost a liter in volume. As well as the first one I've
gotten). It seams the perfect height off the ground for vantage without being so high as to be unrealistic to me. So I
chopped the rim off of it and walla!
... It looked like an upside down cup..
A grey cup but a cup non the less. So looking at it and my fire-warrior lying next to it in a pile of cut up match sticks I
thought that a match stick looked about right for the height of a room or doorway. So I cut out a template and started a
frame to hold it together as glue would work then set it aside while paint dried.



Now back to the actual wall and the reason that I was excited about having to set two pieces of cork board together.
RE-BAR! A crumbly stone wall is cool but it's not very imperial. Is it? Needs to be more mechanical, grungy and well
just beat up. Bent metal sticking out of bombed concrete sounded perfect to me.But the problem that I soon encountered
was that wire (which I had hoped to not have to paint) is way to shinny and new looking. So I painted up two pieces
one boltgun metal and the other chainmail. Boltgun looked best in my opinion so I painted up some cards with boltgun
to try out rust effects.

So today back at the section of the wall. I started by setting out some painted and bent sections of wire to act as rebar
that would be sandwiched between the two boards but when I tried this it didn't work so well as the wire wouldn't let the
boards dry together. So I removed them and set the boards to dry.


As those were drying I decided to work on the vantage point tower. The cup wasn't what I was aiming for so I decided to
try from scratch a boxier construction which I started framing with pieces of match sticks. Here you can see the bottom and
slightly smaller top plate as well as a piece of the bottom reinforcing block sitting next to it. I have also cut some blocks that
will be used to create a doorway into the tower.


Going back to the wall still slightly disappointed that the rebar wouldn't stay on I decided to try another approach. So taking
a pair of pliers and the now dry wall I proceeded to stick the wire sections in a what seemed to be a realistic method, and
here are some shots of the work so far.




That's it for today. More tomorrow!
Please leave any suggestions, comments and thoughts that you have to help make it all better!

Nice stuff, show us some more!

Welcome to the madness that is scenery making.

Commencing EVIL LAUGH in 3...






2...






1...




BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Welcome to the pit of madness and (occassional) depair that is the creation of scenery... Enjoy the ride.

On a more serious note check out http://www.terragenesis.co.uk/ for some extremely helpful hints, and tutorials on terrain building...

Cave_Dweller - Thanks!

Briancj - Thanks! I'm looking forward to this and improving by pushing myself to get better.

Galorn - Mwahahhaaha!!!!! *looks around* Thanks for the link! Looks to be useful!!


Okay so update time!

I don't know what to think of this. Stupid camera doesn't want to focus on such small details such as the bent rebar.


This one has some rubble/scraps in the foreground from a com satellite that I'm attempting to make to attach to
the tower to turn it into a guard strongpoint/game objective.


And here is the tower with the last of the upright braces attached and drying.


As always any suggestions or ideas are welcome!
Any thoughts of better lighting or camera tips for focusing!

FYI...

Sometimes your pictures will be removed from the gallery. They do this to ensure that only good-quality images get posted, but you won't get a notification. They're working on that, but as they have hundreds of pix to go through a DAY by hand, it is hard.

So, in future...

Use a camera, as opposed to a cellphone.

Set up good lighting, the more light, the better picture quality. Multiple light sources are good, but brightness counts.

Take shots against a neutral or dark background, it'll help remove the 'flash bloom'.

Here's a GREAT Dakka Article on the subject: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Debunking_the_Myths_of_Miniature_Photography

I hope this helps, and please don't be discouraged!

--Brian.

Brian - Thanks for the suggestions! I have been using a digital camera and experimenting with settings as I go.
I went through the article on photos that you linked (Thanks by the way!) and realized how lucky I am to have
bought that bristol board at the start of the project. My only problems are lighting (don't have any good lights in
my apartment), the camera I'm using doesn't have a manual white balance (borrowing a better camera from
parents today), and I don't have a tripod (although I found one at a source in a nearby mall But I have to wait on
getting a tripod or lights until the current bus strike is over to go get the lights or tripod.

[edit] But I am going to try a stack of books, the dinning room table and a sheet of bristol board since that is what
I have! I know how crappy pictures repel people.


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So my parents camera arrived and I finished a quick setup of a photo station in the dinning room.
So I took a new picture of the wall that I've been working on as well as a snapshot of my tau's 'squad'
leader that my friend converted for me at my directions. I think that he did an excellent job with it!

Okay so I didn't disapear.
Nope I didn't just stalking the fourms and thinking up new ideas to try.
The old projects on just on hold for a little while.

And as the title now says I am starting a Malcador Tank.
I have bought a small amount of plasticard finaly.
Way over priced...



Well here I am starting..





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Any comments would be loved!

OOooo excited to see how this one turns out!

gonna follow this lovely thread!

Dude I love the Malcador. It's design and feel, it's awesome. Good luck... Subbed.

Nice work on the wall, so simple but looks great!

ok... i say... in short we deploy the whole league on your thread... that should put you in the recent threads for the next decade

love your stuff... you seem to have a natrual talent mate! why has it taken you so long

the cork burst wall looks very promising... seems i have to try that out too... cork is cheap and sturdy and good looking...why i havent found tiles worth of it yet is a mystery to me... i use ikea pads for pots atm^^

one thing tho... if a project like the big cup is not hitting off right away... don´t get frustrated... later on you might hit the point where everything works out fine... so just put it on that big shelves of things still unfinished...we (the league know of that one by heart )

the watchtower you then started looks very good already, this will look very detailed...and detail is everything here^^

wish you all the fun and good luck in your works mate!

definatly want to see more of that all!!!

cheers, vik


oh and i defiantly want to see more of that new shiney malcador tank of yours^^


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oh and two spartan... your avatar is so damn funny!

@ max - I completely agree! I think that it has a much better
feel then some of the tanks I've seen. It seems balanced and
heavy. As if a bullet wouldn't actually knock it over.



I have no idea what sort of weapons I should make for it tho...!
A parts thinking to make it like that forgeworlds battle
cannon version another to make it like their annihilator
version and yet another is yelling to attempt my own complete
design. In which case I would be completely lost.

Obviously not completely lost. You can and are building the tank.....



If you can do one thing with plasticard, You must be able to build anything you want. That's my mantra, anyway.............


Point is, the card is cheap in the grand scheme of things...

best advise I have for you, and my wifey gave it to me, is that you shouldn't worry about the amount of material it takes or the time it takes you, just do it and do it again until it is right. Only then will you be happy with it........









Did I mention my wife is more CDO than me?

Huh....



That makes me feel better...
I'm a person that really feels that I have to have it right the first time or it's worthless and have to give up...


And that isn't a good way to be.

No, it isn't.....


Plasticard is not the be all end all of the world....



Until the rivets start going on it.....

(deep booming Mechanical voice)
League of Extraordinary Riveters Dropship In bound in: 3


2


1


IMPACT!!!

/end thematic bit

Nice start there on the Malc.

The wall doesn't look too bad either.

You digging on the League, again, Galorn..






League Inquiaition inbound in3....





2.....




1........




BOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!

mxwllmdr wrote:You digging on the League, again, Galorn..






League Inquiaition inbound in3....





2.....




1........




BOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!

Digging on, no. just digging.

The wall is looking good if your after inspiration to start your gaming board I suggest checking out ( madmartykmf's) blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/259854.page

(Terraformer) http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/user/23050-Terraformer.html

And (neil101) http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/user/34119-neil101.html

Or my own city blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/350034.page.

Looking forward to seeing more of the malcador.

SilverHayabusa wrote:Huh....

CDO stands for obsessive compulsive disorder. I am just unable to not alphabetize the letters. Sorry, should ahave spelled it out......

Oh I understood that just amazed that you think I'm not lost.
Completely...

Thanks for all the links Paranoia_Agent I'll check them out...

Remeber dude that I had never even built an out of the box when i started doing this a year and ahalf ago. So just stay off your duff and keep going. you will do fine.

I'm loving this stuff....



Plasticard is so nice to work with it basically does what I want it to do when I think it.


Or maybe I'm just a psyker....



They're comming for me....








.... I can hear them....


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But I digress...


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As is often the case...


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By the way Vik I'm reading through that tank thread that you sent me the other day and I thought that I was the first to think of tanks as sentinal replacements....


Guess not...


But I did design one and I am planning on building a couple after having made a few scratch modles so that I can get used to building....

shaso has some amazing stuff going on in his thread! sure enough!

and max...:

Did I mention my wife is more CDO than me?

bloody bigamist you are...

and galorn...love the dropship meme you just created!!!

Okay so glue touched plasticard tonight!

This is what is done so far more to follow tomorrow.




Let me know what you think...

looks great so far, seems like its coming together

ok... you sem to go rather for the templates for paper stuff that are out there... which is also a good way... makes it maybe even sturdier... lots of effort mate! good luck and have fun!

Well this being my first modle I wanted something with a templete and this was a model that I really wanted and thankfully it was one of the only ones with a scale chart on it.



I love it when drafters make designs...


So wonderfull to follow.


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And!



OMG!!! I never thought that this thread would actually make it to page two...

Yes, templates are nice but you are going to find that when you go to fold or crease the plasticard it will tear and break. WHen using a paper template it is best to cut the template out and then seperate each template into all the pieces it encompasses.

i.e. :



I am sure that is not how that piece folds but you understand.....


Unless the piece in question is curved, rather than on a sharp angle, you are going to have problems with vertices on the shape not lining up....


Also, when bending the PC, and trust me on this one (I know), you have to bend it further than the angle you actually need it at. THis is becuase of the elasticity of the PC, it will just 'unbend' itself a little. If there is any pressure on the uncut vertices it will put a warp in the entire shape of the object you are building. when you glue the edges down.....


If you look at my Khorne Warhound build you see a lot of curved edges, but no part of the model has any folded PC. Remember folded, as opposed to bent or curved, puts a lot os stress of the card. Creasing it is even harder and anywhere there should be a crease, or definite edge, should be two pieces cut seperatly and glued together.....



Lastly, remember that the paper templates were most likely made to be used with paper..... PC is much thicker. This necessitates a very large adjustment of the sizes and shapes of some of the pieces in order to get them all to line up properly.....

Paper templates worked fine on 1/4in Foam Core board, however, because you can bevel the edges of the board and leave the paper on the outside to be the bend, almost like a hinge effect......

Good luck....

*in a deep and sinister voice*

"oh.... fear not... this will go for a long time^^ this wont be over in a hurry"




oh and i second the warnings of max here... i had this happening to me too...then i learned it the hard time ...that was before joining the think tank that dakka is...

Thanks Max! I thought for alittle while while cutting that i would be able to just score the card, bend it and then have it done. But when it came time to glue I realised that it would be much easier to just cut off the pieces and glue them together.


But! That means at least that their will be alot less complicated cuts to do with my rusty knife!!!



Always love to hear what you have to say.
It always makes everything clearer or makes me feel good that I'm on the right track...

It's looking good so far.

When you separate all the pieces of plasticard, it's also a good idea to make little triangular wedges to use to strengthen and support the different pieces. Using bits of scrap like this offers you more surface area to glue pieces to and makes lining things up neatly much simpler.

Best of luck with the rest of it!

^^ that too, or when you purchase your tubing and rod also buy some PS angle sticks. It comes in five or six sizes and is perfect for making sure that your PC pieces are edge to edge and at a 90 degree angle. That is, of course, assuming that you need them at 90 degrees. If not it gets complicated......

Those both sound like great ideas.
I'll use some cuttings untill I can get to the store again and buy some angled pieces...


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So I didn't think that I would have a chance to work on this guy tonight...

... But I did! yay...


About 30 minutes and I came up with this....





Let me know what you all think about work so far and any suggestions on things that will help the process!
I'm going to finish the model before cleaning up all the contact cement that I have managed to get all over the place.
.. Including myself...

And some of the pieces that didn't fit quite right will get a filling with some sort of putty before all is said and done with this guy.




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The contact cement looks worse on the photos then in person...


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And the track guards are hella anoying to cut out...



And to get the template to cut and not rip...



I think that I might just come up with something on my own that will work out easier.......

Very nice start, looking forward too seeing it finished.

i think you are on a good road already with that stuff... sure it needs some filing later on but i think the most basic of tech you have mastered...making small cuts like with the trackguards... and yep i know that this is a hell of lot work...tried myself with a landraider once...never completed it tho... but the guards was very intense work and it looks good what you did...!!!

Thanks Vik! Need to get a file to angle the track guards and then have to cut out the smaller piece...

The smaller ones the real bitch (So it didn't sensor....) to deal with...

But still having so much fun with it even when it gets tedious..

Love detail....


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Can't wait to be doing rivets and strapping on this guy...

Yes, looks good. Did you say you are using contact cement? You should be using a plastic cement of some sort.


My glue of choice is Testors red tube plastic cement. Some use the liquid, PLastruc apparantly has a fantastic plastic cement, but its hard to get. Citadel seems to take freaking forever to set. I think the key is when the cement you are using is fully cured, will you be able to sand or file it?

If it can be then cool, you will be able to finish up all the lines and edges. I do a lot of finishing cleanup but because of the glue I use it is simiply a file away from (near) perfection......

I have not thought that far...

The only reason that I'm using the contact cement is that it was $1.25 from the dollar store...

And bing tight on money thats a help...


However it holds really suprisingly well and when I get home I'm going to see how well it files down..

Would be nice if the cheapo glue works well all around....

yep...it would truly be a nice and new one if it would hold even tho it is cheap... we do get lucky sometimes... so i cross my fingers....

by the way... try something for me...

snapp a glued piece off...use a seperate piece...any piece at all... just to be on the safe side here... i do glue tests and material tests always to be on the safe side... it really helps you later on to know more about the properties of your materials...

and here is a new thought... what will you plan to do with the tracks? will you get some already made ones or will you do your own tracks?... on a related thought here... dont do that thin band of plasticcard and then straps of thicker plasticccard as tracks stuff... i think that could ruin the look...try to come up with a good design by yourself... sure this will make you go insane by having to massproduce so many small items... but there are ways around that... you could use a holepunch to make nie patterns... if you are interested look in my gallery... "imperial armor"... there i did two version out of cardboard or foam... could be done with plasticcard too...

The plain that I got didn't come with a track design so I thought that I would have a go at designing a system from scratch. Maybe making a set similar to a watch strap that I used to have.

I did break off a piece... Although not for the reason that you stated. I see the marrit in it now tho. The glue was still alittle gueie, but had more hold then I thought that it would. Seems a pretty good deal for a dollar and a bit..

Do you have any track designs in your gallery? Or pictures that I should/could look at for help?

ok...here are some assorted pics of two seperate tank projects of mine...note... the one tank is made by foam and cardboard...the other one entirely by cardboard...






and end result


--------

end trackshoes for that tank....




differnet try same project...


on the track supporting body...


primed




and end result:

Sweet Vik!


I like those a lot.


A lot, a lot.


I think I will experiment with something similar to both!

I think I will experiment with something similar to both

key phrase...


experimenting is they way!

Oh it really is!


First try was lopsided... But it was only a first try anyway!


So that just means that I get to keep trying!

And thats 90% of the fun!

aye! all thumbs up for that... it is all in the hobby! if you loose that spirit...it begins to look like work...and won´t be fun anymore!

For sure! Just uploading a few picture as we speak!


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Okay so another picture update.

I've continued to assemble the main body of the tank. As well and started to file the
tread guards. Having only a nail file for the moment it is tedious and rather ineffective
at it's job.




As well I have a thought for what the tank tracks may look like and would like
comments on how to make them better. If they have to be redone from scratch that
is okay. Because I've only made two so that I could see what you all think.

it is shaping up all right i think...

as for the nailfile... i think it is a good tool... fine grit...and good grip while sanding the edges... and i use one too atm... one of these cardboard looking ones...the stuff you throw away after three or four times... and it has to sides with different grits so i think it is a good tool^^

hell, yes...show us your thoughts and tries...and make it quick as i need to hit the hay^^


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ah now i see them...

they look good... brutal and menacing... like my smaller tank tracks too...

but mark my words here... are you up to the task to do that around a 200 times over and over again? that will be most likley the amount of trackshoes you need for both sides together...

that is quite a feat!

Oh I can do that. And I know that that will mean 400 pieces with this design. It will take a while but I think that if it makes it nicer looking then that is what it takes and what needs to be done.

yep...you do the job that is in front of ye! ...i like that spirit^^

have a good night!

wow this tank is looking great.. and im sure that in the near future your going to be drawing quite alot of attention from the =][_,=!

OH! That reminds me to say that I started cutting rivets!

No idea how many so far....

But alot more to make and still a while until it's time for them.


Night Vik! Thanks for the input!


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That and I wish Vik were still on to see the next two photos...


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Okies last for tonight...

Time to do some dishes and fall down.


Start of the track guards being set on...

that looks really good! its taking shape really fast!

Thanks RW!

Trying to go fast but not to fast that it losses quality...
Then again it's the first one of a few that I have planed and I plan to learn all the lessons that I can from this one to make the others easier.

ahh... i still am here^^

see what you did there...and i like it^^

that looks like a tank to me^^

And the good thing is that it can only get better from here on in!

And then onto my sentinel tank variant that I've designed...

And then onto the warhound that I want to build...

And then....


....


Well I'll finish this first.

sentinel tank variant... you have me intregued sir...

Well then RW I shall see if I can get the sketch scanned and posted up here so that you may take a look at it.

awww thaaaaaank you

Okay... Didn't want to frig with the scanner so I just snapped a shot of the sketch sheet...



And another of a close-up of the one that I liked best.


So what do you think guys?


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It's #6 if no one can tell...

i like it alot, number 8 and the one below are interesting too.. looking foward to these guys as well as the current tank

I liked #8 as well...

Also toyed with the idea of making a rocket launcher variant...
However my buddy told me that I should limit myself to one for my army so that I don't end up confusing people trying to keep track of variants...

So I thought that #6 was best...

What is your favorite on the sheet?

in practical terms, i feel that the shape of 6 would have worked best if it was real, compared to 8, witch i just think looks cool.. and i say, rocket varient wont be bad, but just keep the same body

Maybe a blend between 6 and 8 would be cool...

They're already rather close so it wouldn't take to much to make something that possessed the qualities of them both.


And I do agree that whatever body that I end up making would just have optional designs for rocket launchers...

2 is definatly my favorite, just has a sleek, light scout tank, kind of look. Love the 'boat shaped' underhull if thats what it is with the faint lines behind and the ariel harkens back to images in my head of ww2 german halftracks. Just to me looks the most 'scout like' Low profile hull (which 6 shares) but I like the combination of a wider style treads. It looks sleek while still having a rugged shape. I just like the turret to hull being more forward than the sleeker shape of 6, but this is of course my take on it, wouldn't mind seeing a combination of the two but to me you have a winner in 2.

Thanks Lunarstudio!

And welcome to dakka!

Love your input on it.


They all have been my favorites so no answers are wrong and they're peoples opinions so they can't be wrong!


I think that 6 is more scout-like and streamlined but I like the driver hatch and exhaust from 2 as well as the treads from 8....



Okay! Tomorrow I make a new design incorporating these!

And I'll see what else is said firstly...

No problem and thankies for the welcome ^^.

I just too love the forward aspect of 2 in relation to the position of the turret. I mean yes if the driver is right up front does make his space a little more cramped but I think it also helps with the size imo. the positioning on 6, looks almost as if its like a scaled down medium tank as opposed to what I see with 2 is the kind of 'scout armored car' aspect a little more.

i like the sentinal tank idea... one thing you should think about tho is that with the malcador you are currently building you are using a very old, established look... i would work with that look too... namely the track design... there is a certain shape to it which you should use throughout all your tankvariants... well i am a bit biased as this is my favorite shape for tracks^^... modern tanks lack this characterful shape sadly...

oh and by all means sketch more^^ i wish i coudl sketch at all... if i do...my stuff looks like that produced by my kids... and they are 4 and 6 years old...

Vik just to let you know that when anyone starts sketching thats what it tends to look like...


The problem is that in most cases it's enough of a disapointment that the person stops sketching.....



I'm lucky in that I whent to school for art. However compared to most in that class I sucked and that stopped me from sketching for a few years....



Then I realised what I was good at. (not organic stuff) and now I can imbrase my love of vehicals and buildings...


One tip if you try to sketch something. Start with a lot of small thumbnail sketches. At the largest 1"x1" in size do a handfull and then take your favorite and do it alittle large a nother handfull of times. Repeat this and soon you'll have a decent sketch of something and it's more likely to look like whats in your head.

yep... i do know that practise makes püerfect but well you have to get back in the sadle... that´s sometimes the hardest part...

and when the next sketch raises his ugly head for me (my sketches are meant^^) than i will have to remember your way of tackling the sketch dilemma... i think your way sounds good enough for me to try even^^

Thanks Vik! That is a complement indeed!
Sketching out some ideas as we speak but won't be able to upload them until later today when I get home.

that is the best part of sketching... there are no limitations to it... you can do it everywhere and almost in any circumstances...


looking forward to your update then^^

Okay I was looking in my oversized file of tanks and pulled out this beauty. I think that my sentinal variant will look similar to the Russian T60



It wouldn't be an armoured car. Instead the designs are ment to be light tanks or tankette's.


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Just instead of the small cannon it would have a lascannon or rocket launcher....

hmmm... will this malcador tank be more of a try out version for yoiur army or does that tank show the direction the style of your army is heading? if the later then i think you should look more into mark V tanks... or for that matter british tanks... their design is similar to the malcador... of course you can mix as you see fit...

My goal for the far distnt future is to build a death krops army....

... Far future...


I think that the malcador is definatly going to be in my army two or three of them if I like how it finishes up...

I think that the T60 would fit into the army because everything I've seen other than that picture (Chosen because it was the nicest side view I have) are very angular....


Which in my mind bodes well for rivets and strapping to beef it up. Hopefully without making it look stronger then it is. I have to remember that these little guys won't be much better then a guard with a lascannon. Just a heck of a lot cooler.


... IMHO....


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Here I tossed up a few of the more angular pictures...


Don't get me wrong I'm not going to use the T60/70 as it is. But do a complete redesign and just use the size and proportions of the original.

Good job so far, It really looks great! And with the trackpieces on there it really starts to take shape Keep it up!!

And BTW... Damn you guys and all your scratchbuilding threads!

I can't wait to get hold of some plastic card and start my basilisk convertion!

I just might have to start that project sooner than later... :/

Viktor von Domm wrote:that is the best part of sketching... there are no limitations to it...

like a giant rivetter community on a giant titan?

DiDDe I know what you mean.. It's only recently that I've gotten my hands on some plasictcard...


And this is my first time.... Scratch building that is....


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RW... No... A giant riveter community on a giant riveted titan aboard and gargantuan riveted space ship....


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.... on its way to the riveting forgeworld of Vikdom?

SilverHayabusa wrote:A giant riveter community on a giant riveted titan aboard and gargantuan riveted space ship....

standing on a giant riveted landingpad.... no..? too much

.... on its way to the riveting forgeworld of Vikdom?


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Okay so I did some more sketches today...

Give me ideas and comments and I'm hitting the hay...


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I forgot to put them in...

i think some of your recent sketches actually go into this direction...it is a renault old WWI tank:



i think your major concern should be the footprint of that tank count as sentinal... to make your army still as legal as possible... also height should be with this fella a bit easier...

from a just good looking perspective i somehow like version 4 of your recent sketches... it looks rather fast! and i think that is a feature that describes the sentinel quite good... fast in movement and fast in dieing^^

oh and Didde, RW and silver... you totally forgot that everything rests on a totally riveted deathstar... can´t get bigger than that, now can we?

4? okay..


I do like the renault..

well it was my first thought of a count as sentinel tank...it is/was rather one of the smallest tanks out there..

For sure! I think that something between the renault and the t60 would be nice..


And any design that ends up being made will be the size of a sentenal base..

They're all scetched to scale to fit on the 60mm base.

for referrence you can always search for grotz tanks as well... they would give you a general feel of the scale i think...

have you yet looked into shasolenzabi´s thread? he has some tractor tanks made from scratch as well...

Oh Vik I thought that you would love this haveing looked throught the oddball thread.


I found this a month or so ago and decided that I wanted one in my army.


So I am going to build a Bridging Tank at some point. It fits perfectly into the game board that I want to make....

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2008/06/road-to-hell.htm


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I have looked and like!

yeah... i talked shaso already too into making one of these^^

so what will your board be? trenches? or more cityscape?

Ohhohoho!!! The grand scyme is that it's going to be a city board...


This hive city section has been under attack bombardment for a while and is the last stand spot..

Going to be 2 2'x8' boards with a 2' river running through the middle (for easy mini movement) and only having one real vehical bridge. So one main objective is to hold the bridge...

At one end of the first half there is a Mecanicus Temple sidding the river and italian styled shops crammed into the other with a small park/ graveyard/ courtyard in the middle ish...


While the other side is higher buildings (mostly distroyed by shelling) with another park section..


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I have a few sketches of it so far...


And it is designed to be changable so that the configeration doesn't have to be the same...

sounds cool already... when you are back home (?) be sure to share some pics of your sketches... one day i have to make my own board too...hopefully it will be then a trench system...tho a city board would be awsome too...hck you seem to go even for both... specially love the mission objective to the bridge... will give plenty of needs to fight over that!

For sure! No one have have any real amount of back-up with out that bridge...

There will be one or two foot bridges. Althought I think that they'll only really be useful as vantage points against the large bridge..


Thats why I think that the bridging tank would be useful in this senario...

It would give another way across the river...

yup... tho couldn´t it be considered cheating ? i mean against what army will you usually fight on that board...? will they have similar options?

True..

I'm hoping that it might inspire one of my friends to build something. Bridging tanks are just cool as hell...


But the other thing is that once it's down I don't see why they couldn't use the bridge as well?


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The other thing it's otherwise rather useless....

And could easily be destroyed on it's way to location or while setting up me think...

But the other thing is that once it's down I don't see why they couldn't use the bridge as well?

true...but you get a good headsstart before him...so there is your gain...also i expect you wouldn´t leave a bridge tank stay unprotected?

Oh for sure I would not do that....

>.>

<.<


I would never get distracted and leave it alone...



At least I hope that would never happen.


And before playing with anyone I would have to make sure that they were cool with it being in play since there arn't actually any rules on them for the game. At least not that I'm aware of...

i would look for FW rules... i think they have some for those extra tanks... or fail that..*points to shaso* he might have made them already...

Okies... Just asked him the question. Lets hope that there is a good awnser....

i cross fingers for you^^

I have an Engineer buddy here at the base what wants a bridge layer closer to modern, though....

Closeer to the Wolverine:

But... Back to the sentinals...


They are defenatly going to die quickly...

They're not truing to be Leman Russ'.

Just little buggers with lascannons and maybe hunter killer missels that piss everyone off so that they forget the big guys...


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Max that is AWESOME...

I love that step-by-step...

I think that mine will be between yours and

mxwllmdr wrote:I have an Engineer buddy here at the base what wants a bridge layer closer to modern, though....

Closeer to the Wolverine:

if someone could build that tank and have it fully functioning...that would be great!!!

Just little buggers with lascannons and maybe hunter killer missels that piss everyone off so that they forget the big guys...

LOL...but in essence yep!

But I think that the one I want to build will be based off of the chimera chassy


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I would love to build it as a working model...
I was just saying that to my buddy...

The wolverine is built and fielded in the US Army. It rocks. It is roughly the size of an M1A1 Abrams but it is cool. We also have several real bridge layers from the forties and 60's just sitting around on base here. Would you like some photos?

are you just asking silver??? hell yes!!!

and sliver...i think such a thing would be better on a bigger chassis...

I would addore any photos that you could give me Max!
I would be annoying and be the 3D modeler that I am and ask for as many as you could from as many angles.....

I could thearetically model it working in 3D...


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Bigger as in longer? Or as in Wider or both?

both i think... you have to imagine the extra weight and pull such a pontaloon bridge would bring with it... so you have a counter weight in the tank...at least that is what i think it would work like...

True... But at the same time I kinda like the concrete blocks straped to the back..

That really screams 40k to me...


"Sir it's over balanced!

Than strap something heavy to the back of it! ....yeash..."

ok...with the strapped on concrete blocks i am with you! beside thats how cranes work in the real world too so i think that would be convincing...heck...one could make xtra rules for such a detail...like hit it at the straps and the tank collapes...

Maybe the huge blocks would add a armour save to the back of the beast?

that perhaps too...

About the Sentinel scout tanks i think something like this could be cool


But with alot more rivets ofcourse!

And about the bridgelayer...

You could make it a peice of the terrain on the board.. And by that i mean that noone controls it, and noone can kill it.. And the purpose of it is that it moves every turn, and when like 3-4 turns has passed and the bridge that's already there is infested with corpses and exploded tanks the bridgelayer makes a new bridge and, Voila! Now the players have 2 bridges too hold.. That imho seems lika a really cool idea!

PLUS! Why don't you just make an insanely large bridge?

Like this one right here ^^,

DiDDe wrote:About the Sentinel scout tanks i think something like this could be cool


But with alot more rivets ofcourse!

And about the bridgelayer...

You could make it a peice of the terrain on the board.. And by that i mean that noone controls it, and noone can kill it.. And the purpose of it is that it moves every turn, and when like 3-4 turns has passed and the bridge that's already there is infested with corpses and exploded tanks the bridgelayer makes a new bridge and, Voila! Now the players have 2 bridges too hold.. That imho seems lika a really cool idea!

PLUS! Why don't you just make an insanely large bridge?

Like this one right here ^^,

the T 18 would work also as a sentinel stand in just like the renault tank... both share some features i think...



and your idea concerning the bridge sounds quite good! and would be million times easier to build than an actuall working tank witha bridge ontop...

Ok, I will get a bunch of photos this weekend. i think all told we have thirty five armored vehicles, several military boats and four or five bridge layers. Not to mention 2 ton, 2.5 ton, 4 ton and 5 ton trucks that are all apporved for public consumption. I think that the collection of these photos would be a valuable tool for some modelers.....

and again...this could make an excellent start for a tank related article or thread... just pointing that out as it would keep the heap of information neatly together...

But!

Where is the fun in easy?


Are we in this hobby for it's ease?

Nuuu... (I'm in it cause it's creaped and more time consuming....)


I am working out ideas for not only building the model but making it work....


@ DiDDe - I however bow to the double hinged bridge...


I must make that! ...


Maybe even a 3 hinge... Because having a 4 6" folds is more 'realistic' in the game then a foot long tank...


P.S. thats awesome...


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Thanks Max! All those photos will be emensly helpful!

Where is the fun in easy?

be careful...sanity id crossing and getting outa the house if you follow this road^^

but yeah in essence we are beyond easy...we are here to make our life a misery by making tiny things ourselves that other want to seel us^^ so yep...easy is for others... because we like that special kind of misery that we coined fun^^


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oh and the folded bridge will be way better and better looking even too! how many folded parts tho i am at a loss here...

Thats a great idea for the article. Include all that stuff as reference materials.....

yup... those who have the knowing should share it...

So you guys would want me to make one?


Or you mean someone else?

i think the tank article should be done my max for now... tho no one says that others couldn´t contribute as much as they want...well actually this article should be done by shaso... because he is really devoted to tanks...hmmm... i am at a loss here...

No, I agree, Shaso is a shoe in for the Tanks. I can provide all the photos but he should write it....

uff....thanks ...i hope i havne´t stepped on your toes by that...

Not at all, Vik. Not at all....


It's called colaborative effort for a reason....

colaborative

you and your elaborate vocabulary...man...if i don´t watch it i get educated by you...

but yep...you are right!

lots of nice ideas, i would like to see a 40k wolverine cause that would be cool.. and interested in seeing what you do for you city table (speaking of which, have any of you seen the BlueTablePainting trench board? )

@ Rogue - I haven't seen that. You wouldn't have a link would you?

Any Ideas or suggestions?

while i go look it up, here is one blog that i (and im sure some of the riveteers) enjoyed alot!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/398449.page


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http://bluetablepainting.blogspot.com/2010/02/trenchworks.html


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good cities of death- http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1830/259854.page#4089832

I read through zebra's thread before I joined and loved what he was doing. It's to bad what happened when painting and I'm sad that he stopped....

His work was what sparked my thoughts for my board design...

Oh my that bluetable trenchworks is mind numbing...
$1500 - $2000.....

didnt know they where selling it, i only oogled at how i thought it looked cool.. and it is a shame what happened to zebra, because it was the most realistic buildings ive seen (looked like it poped out of a wwII movie!)

For sure! I loved the detail! He put gutters on it...! Like... wow...

And I don't know if they're selling that one...


It said if someone wants a board like that one it would be about that...

yeo

It all makes me want to go to the hardware store and buy styreen sheet insulation....


And build lots of buildings....

Huh I could build a really kickass trench board for WAY less than that If someone wanted to buy it... Hell I did

just had a look...amazing is the understatement of the day...

Well... I donn't have the vocabulary to express what it truely is....

So I just say Wow and pick up my jaw from the floor....

yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose...


er...man... i think someone is delibertly making me write such akward stuff...

Viktor von Domm wrote:yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose...

Sigged, Vik. Classic.......

oh noooes...


but by the way...

never did i achieve a hattrick ...i have been quoted three times now in your sig...man... famous is for geeks... now i am infamous...

Sigged!

... famous is for geeks... now i am infamous...

ok... i seem to do something right... tho i haven´t got an idea as to why... if so i would probably do it wrong anyways...

Or you do it so wrong that it's right?

Didn't know what to say?

Or you put your tail in your mouth? (So to say)

the circle aspect of the pic is what i meant... going so far as to see ones own back of the head...^^

Oh I see...


Going to upload some photos...

better make that quick...i am about to go offline... need to get the kids back from nursery...

Okay guys the haul is together and all I have to do is attacheh the outter tread guard, add tread, weapons and rivets....

I didn't think it was much until I typed it out...






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As always the phots make things look like crap...

naaawwww... don´t get that bad mojo on yourself...there is still lots of things to do... so we atm only see the substructure anyway... many hours of shaping work still to come...

by the way... will you do the weapons by yourself or use bitz?


what about fluff? this will determine the insignia and other stuff... will this be true to the 40k universe tanks or will you make up your own stuff? all these things have to be considered soon...

I'm going to have to build the weapons myself...

My friend londed me some heavy weapon bitz to use as referance since I don't own anything 40k other then a handfull of Tau....

I'm going to see about moulding some copies that I can modify...


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I'm planning on designing a variation of the Death Korps...
I want to keep things as close to 40k as I can...


To make them as realistic as possible and to give them a uniqe feeling...

Just remember, Layer - layer - layer....


This means detail is best and looks most realistic when layered for depth. Also, gaze at the real models for a bit, collect a bunch of photogs of them in a folder on your computer to refer to. You don't have to copy it exact just use it as guidelines as to what youcan do.....

And lastly, now that you are nearing the detailing phase of the build. You need to have in mind what you are going to have as finished product so that everything you do works to that goal. Not to say that goal won't change 10,000 times before you finish it but it does help.....


-mental note to self- that was good advise for the article.

That was very good advice Max!

Thanks for it.

I presonally love referance. I just always end up forgetting about it when building....

I presonally love referance. I just always end up forgetting about it when building....

yep... i know that feeling...^^

and have you yet looked into RSJakes thread of the female military leader? he made some very good looking gasmasked heads... maybe you could use them for your work? as a counts as DKOK army they would dp very well... he has a shop by the way...

I have not read that thread!

Just finished Dave's so I could use another to read...

After almost 150 pages plus max's almost 50. I feel like I know you guys. Then I realise you have no idea who I am and that I probably freak you all out....

Which I'm used to btw...


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Oh yea.. Got a link to that thread?

Holy Crap Silver! This is Kick-Ass!

Not at all dude! -This is the one place on earth where we can all share like-minded interests, and like-minded people naturally feel at-home together. We are glad to have you!
-Make yourself at home, beers are in the cooler and steaks are cookin up over there!

mom...and mate... it takes quite a lot to freak us out...


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/338802.page


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/394917.page

bith filled with extra ordinary good stuff...and i am choosy! i really am!^^

also you should for inspiration look into some other riveters threads... there is lots of cool and useful stuff around...

Thanks Dave!

I'm also looking at "Eye for Detail"


I have a large block of modeling clay laying about. (untouched for almost a year) and I'm thinking that I should attempt to design and cast my own army to go with the tanks. Althought they wouldn't be near the level of me being willing to let people see them so that kinda stops that....

YES! This is one hell of a talent pool for sure! -You would be surprised who you attract with plastic-fu!

Shasolenzabi has the Biggest armored company I have ever seen, and is also a scratch-builder, check it out
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/326377.page

hey... you have to start with something... maybe i can show you tomorrow my first stab at actually making my own mini...out of FIMO... it was a job done while my kids worked with putty... more fun than actually getting somewhere... i show you tomorrow... and it looks like a cartoon mini... so don´t be too harsh on yourself!


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dsteingass wrote:YES! This is one hell of a talent pool for sure! -You would be surprised who you attract with plastic-fu!

Shasolenzabi has the Biggest armored company I have ever seen, and is also a scratch-builder, check it out
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/326377.page

did that already^^ lol

Yea... Sorry Dave. Red that one as well...


Wow... I've red alot this week...

yep...that is true... i call that very motivated!!! hat is off to you sir!

You should go rivet something, it will relax you!

lol....

I did stick about 5 rivets on the malcador just for learning sake!...

See? You feel better already, probably smiling at your computer screen

probably smiling at your computer screen

after that i sure did!^^

I is smiling very much and my wife probably thinks I'm crazy...

I should remind her that I am.

Has Vik Given you RSJake's sculpting thread? -This guy is a volcano of talent
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/394917.page

MadMarty is a terrain guy that I look up to!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/259854.page

PDH is an Amazing British Hobby Ninja
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/320489.page
And of course from him, you will discover Baiyuan and his lot
Dakka is full of rabbit holes to endlessly fall deeper into

PSH's is new to me! Thank you!

And Dave would you have any suggestions on how to go about making my own mini's?

Oh no, I'm NOOO sculpter! Not my thing, sorry, but RSJake is the Expert on that.

Any suggestions on what I should get to make molds and copies of some heavy weapons? I think I might go to Micheals on sunday and direction would be loved....

I have not tried any mold-making stuff Michaels sells. I don't know much about that half of the forbidden art.

Well it was worth the question anyways..

Any thoughts on the Malcador?

If I were you, I'd add proper GW weapon bitz rather than scratch-building them, or are you a purist?
What weapons will this one carry?

Purist?

This ones going to be a defender with the heavy bolters and the demolisher canon.

I'm also planning on making another one as an annihilator next.
(Although might build my counts as sentinel first)


And then I want to make my dream of an infernus.
(Working up to this one)...

Viktor von Domm wrote:

but by the way...

never did i achieve a hattrick ...i have been quoted three times now in your sig...man... famous is for geeks... now i am infamous...

woh woh woh.. i have 5 quotes from you in my sig! how dare you overlook the great quote hoarder that is me



but to more serious things that tank is really coming together, nice one!

Thanks Rouge appreciate it!

I liked the T-72 bridge layer, a tri-sectioned-bridge!

Now for the Malcador, I scratch built the Bolter housing on my conversion of a French Char-1B bis and used tube stock to make them swivel. I also added smaller walls for the sections the tubes were set in. You may want to look into doing that for your Malcador.

I also gave it Las-cannons for the sponsons, making it a definite all rounder.

As for the main tread parts, when I scratch build my big tanks, I made a design template for the tread-section, like what you have on the Malcador already, and this allowed me to make the track sections with some sort of uniformity.

Are the Lascannons legal?
Because that would be cool. Really make it hold it's own all round...


Any thoughts on how to tackle the treads?
They're making me dread this thing. And we can't have that..
Can we?

SilverHayabusa wrote:Are the Lascannons legal?
Because that would be cool. Really make it hold it's own all round...


Any thoughts on how to tackle the treads?
They're making me dread this thing. And we can't have that..
Can we?

Yes, they cost a few points, but yes, they are part of the info for the Malcadors, I have the Vraks campaign, all three books!

Okay, my way was to use sprue sections, at just the right parts(Using thread sections) to get the right depth,m and allow the treads to rise past, and that is how the T-300 tread sections were made in my scratchbuilt monster. (Helped that I had spare treads)

I have some Heavy Bolter bitz I could part with if you are interested.

I would love some bits that would make it alot better looking then scratch IMO...

Another nice thing about Dakka, Folks willing to help you finish a project with stuff they themselves are not using!

This place is great!


All the help, suggestions and inspiration...

It'll bring a rivet to your eye...


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... I mean tear...

We leaguers only cry rivets!

Sadly I'm not proven enough (yet) to be a member....

So they only pop out occasionally...

Hey, the others have to agree on it. One alone does not make the decisions

LOL

Other than Vik...


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He is big brother after all...

SilverHayabusa wrote:Any suggestions on what I should get to make molds and copies of some heavy weapons? I think I might go to Micheals on sunday and direction would be loved....

Not sure If yours will have it but the product you are looking for is EITHER OOMOO by smooth-on or Mold Star 25 from Smooth-on. Both are easy to use extra low viscosity (to avoid bubble retention) RTV silicone products.

SilverHayabusa wrote:LOL

Other than Vik...


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He is big brother after all...

Grandfather Vik

@ Galorn - Thanks! I'll look into those this weekend!


The overlord... All hail...

Rogue Wolves wrote:

Viktor von Domm wrote:

but by the way...

never did i achieve a hattrick ...i have been quoted three times now in your sig...man... famous is for geeks... now i am infamous...

woh woh woh.. i have 5 quotes from you in my sig! how dare you overlook the great quote hoarder that is me



but to more serious things that tank is really coming together, nice one!

upsy...*ducks...*


and granfather???? next thing someone says aabout me is grandma....
well...i´d settle for godfather...


and silver...you tear rivets??? i would consult your optician...sounds like it might be hurting...

It's okay. He said to add them to my model.

whut? LOL

Uggg... I tried to start a sculpt of a mini today.

Utter fail...


I would post pictures but it didn't get far enough to be worth it...

hammered it into smitherin bits right after looking at it? lol...i know that^^

No.. Just draped a wet cloth over it and cried on the inside...


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It's to bad to show.. Might break the camera...


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I know HOW to sculpt.. I just can't..

actually then show it...by all means... what i have seen here develop over the time...you sure get good helpful comments... actually i seldom saw any trolls here , so have faith... in you...in rivtes and the empress...(my fluff has an empress ...a rotting lady queen victoria^^)

SilverHayabusa wrote:No.. Just draped a wet cloth over it and cried on the inside...

thats what happend the last time i had a female over


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btw... color shapers.. A-fething-MAZING when it comes to miniature sculpting..

thats what happend the last time i had a female over

OMG... grouphug...

colour shapes???

colorshapers... originally invented for smooth blending of paints...now often used for sculpting work, specially for sculpting with sticky GS and such materials... silicontips that dont stick to GS...very good for smoothing and shaping the material...

http://www.dickblick.com/products/colour-shaper-mini-sets/

where i got mine! cheap too

And here I am just licking my sculpting aids to avoid the stickiness.

Oh! I know them as modeling rakes!
Yes I have a bunch of those! ^^



@ shaso - Eh. I just use alittle water.

@Silver, Okay, if you are using a actual camera, do a pre-clickl, it will auto-focus for you. If that is a camera phone, check the focus if it will let you.

I don't really know... But something tells me he did those pictures blurry for a reason.

It's ok silver! You don't have to be afraid.. Now please show us the non-blurry ones and be a good boy!

aw.... I didn't think that you guys would notice the blur behind the crapiness..

And I didn't want to break your monitors..
I can't afford to replace them all...

well... i can sue you now across the ocean...no problem^^

i think the minis looks promising! the stick like wire puppet is hsowing lots of ways where this might go,
and the already sculpted mini form (?) looks a little stocky but if you try to make a mini like an ogre or troll you are already halfway there... no point in dragging you down... well i surly would do it way worse...my hand and eye coordination is so lacking it isn´t really there at all^^

so more and next time better focused pics please! you can afford it^^

I actually really tried to get them in focus...
I don't know what the problem is...
I did the pre shot...
Lots of lighting.. and then less lighting to see the differance...

I set the camera on some books to avoid hand shake...

They just always seem blurry and it's a good camera....

did you use the setting of the little flower?

^that and try to get a simple background... flat white.,.. that wont draw away the focus to other stuff... sometimes the cpu of your cam might do that...

Right....

I thought it was set.

... but probably not....


..opps...


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Sorry guys...

Thats what I get for squeezing photos in before running to the bus....

I love this about dakka...

I mean, if you have a problem. People will instantly try to help you get better on it no matter what it is.. i've seen that alot here.

Like painting, building, cameras and stuff. I've even seen people help with stuff like carproblems... o.O



...hmm...

..maybe...

...hey guys, you wouldn't know how to rob a bank without getting caught now do you?

I do but it involves a transporter and a fusion reactor...

Both of which I can't seem to get working right...


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And I agree about dakka being full of awesome people willing to teach others!

Like Vik, Max and Dave! My hat (if I wore one) is off to you guys! And all the other riveters! You're a great bunch!

I have been a federal cop for twenty two years. I could rob a bank and get away with it. The problem doesn't arrive with getting away with it. it derives from being able to use the money.....




BTW, I would never rob a bank......

Neather would I..


I think I'm more likely to try and mold money.


And we all know that wouldn't work...


So I'll stick with trying to learn to scratch build....

It's better that way.

Ah scratch building, For when you want a cheaper alternative to play with!

For when their are no funds avalable. And then you learn and desire an army that no one else will ever have. It's all yours! ^^

HAHA, and scratching for others has paid for my Chaos Army......

Well, I can only hope that eventually, scratch-building, and then make parts of the models set for molds to make my own resin casts may work one day.

My only problem with scratch building is my friends wouldn't pay even the price of the plasitcard..

And the one that would have decided that it would be better for him to just build his own...

SilverHayabusa wrote:
I think I'm more likely to try and mold money.

You said it!!

Now I need to order some GS.. or alot of it.. And then it's just a matter of creating some coins

...Hmm, On the other hand that might just now go around...

I think i'll just continue work hard and spend what little i get on the little plastic men I work on..




Also, I wanna scratch build too!!

but I think i'm gonna buy and build a FW lucius pattern warhound first.
maybe make some exrta rivets on it too?

Like max said.. "it lasts longer with rivets"

Lasts longer and looks better!


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Ta da! I am incompatent!



But it still looks like crud..
And dried out. I don't think clay was a good idea...

mxwllmdr wrote:I have been a federal cop for twenty two years. I could rob a bank and get away with it. The problem doesn't arrive with getting away with it. it derives from being able to use the money.....




BTW, I would never rob a bank......

use the money??? you give it to me! just cause...that´s how it works!

That looked like the kind of clay that needed to be baked in a Kiln. If you can get Green stuff, or Gray stuff it will hold better.
http://www.flamesofwar.com/gf9online_store.aspx?CategoryID=13168

It's air dry clay.. You can remositen it... I hope it will at least....

Free the inner stickman!

Does greenstuff dry out?
Or greystuff?

yup...they cure next to rock solid... well GS up to a point ...it still feels like a solid chewing gum...but grey stuff should be much harder iirc...and liliput gets like ceramics...

Ah... So theirs no reworking with it?

oh...well GS i would not recommend to sanding...cutting tho works fine... the other stuff i head can be drilled sanded and filed to your hearts desire...

So... Both have their pro's and con's....


Damn life and it's two sidedness...

and to make it even further complicated... from what i´ve heard you can mix them up too...to different effects...

Well, the mix of how nuch o fthe parts helps make it harden faster, or slower. Or maintain pliancy like a cloak. Gray stuff allows more time to go back and make improvements if you mess it up, like an hour or two to harden as opposed to Green stuff which usually will harden in 30minutes if you allow it, so tear off what amount you need(less of the two to make one mass of both) and sculpt!

Smoothing with files will make it look rough. But I drill the hardened product and add bits to it.


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I have yet to try mixing grey to blue, black to yellow,

mxwllmdr wrote:I have been a federal cop for twenty two years. I could rob a bank and get away with it. The problem doesn't arrive with getting away with it. it derives from being able to use the money.....




BTW, I would never rob a bank......

so how exactly WOULD you rob a bank and get away with it
*pulls out pen and paper*
be specific now would you

so how exactly WOULD you rob a bank and get away with it
*pulls out pen and paper*
be specific now would you

Simple, as you seize the money, you erase the bank from time itself with the right chronometric resonator.

damn.. i knew it.. but hey your a dragon wouldnt you just eat/burn everyone?

Rogue Wolves wrote:damn.. i knew it.. but hey your a dragon wouldnt you just eat/burn everyone?

Now where is the challenge in that?

i see your point... and i raise you .. um.. i suck at poker

Rogue Wolves wrote:i see your point... and i raise you .. um.. i suck at poker

Gotta know when to show up, know when to fold up, and walk away.

i just bluff everytime and go all in.. its a good stratagey .001/1000000000000000000000000000000 times

If you bluff all the time then I always know that your bluffing.

I think that some greystuff will have to be on my list for my next outting..

So that's:

Greystuff.
Modle saw.
Mini hand drill.
Plasticard tubing.
Talent.

Am I missing anything?

SilverHayabusa wrote:If you bluff all the time then I always know that your bluffing.

I think that some greystuff will have to be on my list for my next outting..

So that's:

Greystuff.
Modle saw.
Mini hand drill.
Plasticard tubing.
Talent.

Am I missing anything?

Boobs. and possibly beer (personal preferences pending of course. )

boobs, yes.. but also if your serious about GS, then get colorshapers, i keep saying it because they are unimagionaley amazing... seriously and they are cheap on the site i posted here too

Rouge I have some colour shapers....
Never heard them called that like I said...

I posted a picture of all of them around the bottom of page 7 if you would like a lookskies...

And I'm nicely married so I got the boobie thing covered. ^^
And theirs an eight pack in the fridge..
Always is. ^^

Silver, Sorry, I didn't read every post, but I did look at all the pretty pictures. There are a lot of threads that I just skim....like Vik's...I don't have that kind of time.

Anyway....

Your scratch built vehicles are great! Really awesome stuff! And I really appreciate your help with mine so far! I will need more help, so stick around!

Your sculpting needs practice. That's all. Don't think I didn't do a LOT of practicing! Actually, if you look at the start of my sculpting blog, I think I needed a bit more practice before starting something that complicated, but it came out alright in the end, but only with lots of help.

The color shapers that have been mentioned are wonderfull. I didn't see any in your photo, they are soft rubber-tipped "paint brush" like tools. I recomend them, but they are not mandatory. I didn't get any until very recently. The right sculpting material though is very important. A 2-part epoxy like Kneadatite (Green Stuff) or ProCreate (Gray Stuff) is what I would recommend. Other people use other stuff, and that's fine, but Green Stuff and Gray Stuff is pretty forgiving, and no baking is required, and it doesn't shrink or crack. And if you make a mistake, it is soft enought to cut the bad parts out and re-do it. And after it has cured for a couple of days it is hard enough to file and sand it smooth. I would wait that long, or you will get a build-up of the material in your files and sanding sticks.

Also....and this is very important....don't try to do the whole model in one go. A little at a time. and then just add to it. If you try it all in one go, you will leave fingerprints in the stuff that is still soft and you will deform a part that you already had done, while you are working on the next part. Trust me.

Just dont' give up because the first, or fifteenth one doesn't look exactly like you want it to. Keep at it!

Thanks Jake!
I thought that the colour shapers were just detail rakes....
I guess I missed that one.
I know some stuff about sculpting but only on a larger scale then this...
The advice and encouragement really makes me want to keep going at these projects. Although I don't think that I'm going to keep the last figure...
I have thought of a few knowledgeable tips from working with larger figures that I want to employ on a new model as soon as I can...
But first I think that I'll find some greystuff....
Love your comment and currently working my way through your female military thread..
(Reading every post because I don't want to miss anything!)

SilverHayabusa wrote:
(Reading every post because I don't want to miss anything!)

You're a better man than me!

My only artistic experience before this was drawing, so you are actually ahead of the curve compared to me! It's just learning to work on such a freaking small scale!

Are there any interesting games out there with say...70mm scale models?

so.....jake you are now into deep......skimming by thread... are we...? well...ah...heck you now i can´t boykott your thread...darn...

well...any way...this:

Just dont' give up because the first, or fifteenth one doesn't look exactly like you want it to. Keep at it

is what should always keep you from getting too frustrated... because one day...it will come to you...and then you will be all golden...i promise!!!

Yeah, I have to skim some threads, just too much talk. I know a lot of it is good, and funny, but there is a lot of randomness (like: tossing a wax sculpture of Sean Connery over ones shoulder? I think you know what I mean), and I only have time to get on here at work, and I am supposed to be working after all..

But I do read most of the things....just not all.


And since this thread is still in the double digits, I will go back and actually read the whole thing.

Sorry Vik, I still skim some of yours. Especially when LDD starts posting pics of large naked men.

One other nice thing to do if your getting into sculpting (Im still not that good myself mind you) is when you go to your dentists or just make a trip by one, stop in and ask if they have any old and broken tools. Usually they have afew that they were otherwise going to put into waste, of course they do keep them sterile and would before they gave them out, just explain to them you would like to use them for sculpting if they dont mind parting with them. You get alot of useful tools with alot of useful tips and even the broken ones, work great for effects, each one winds up being different.

hey lunar... i always ment to do just that...but everytime when i am done there i forget or better want to leave really quickly so i never did that LOL...

but one day i really should pluck up some courage to stay longer than necessary^^


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and I am supposed to be working after all..

er... quite understandable^^

Especially when LDD starts posting pics of large naked men.

what was it again with sleeping lions and such^^

Eh work is overrated...

Half the time I'm talking on her I'm in class and supposed to be doing work...

Vik and you guys are just to interesting...

At Jake - I've seen some of your sketches and think that they're alot better then what I can do...
And I may know some stuff about sculpting and modeling and what not... But most of it is just theory that I've learned in past gaming college or whatnot, and have little to no practical experience..

Right, sorry....sleeping lions....wait, what? Oh....riiiight!!!




Sorry.



Silver, whatever experience you have, you just need practice. Drawing didn't help me with picturing the female form, so that's like your theory. Just need to start doing it, and see what happens. You saw my first attempts. 'Nuff said.

I (while failing at tomorrow's math assignment) came up with what I'm going to use all the clay that I got on!

Wootz! Go me... The chepo clay is good. Just not for the 28mm scale. So I'm going to design and sculpt a "Mini" steampunkish space marine head!
And I've got an idea for what to do with it if it turns out like I want..

So help me get going on it with any ideas or suggestions.
I'm going to look for an example to post!

http://www.dickblick.com/products/colour-shaper-mini-sets/

^ color shapers!
those metal ones you have are good too (as i have similar) especialy for carving or stabbing, but those color shapers... man i could talk for hours about em!

I think that I'm going to do my take on the Mk III helm...

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOooo do it

Starting sletckes now and will be at it within a half hour!

Figured larger scale practice would help...
And who wouldn't love a SM paperweight on their desk??


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Okay! I got about an hour tonight and started on the helmet!





Tell me what you think!
It's only a rough out of the main features but any thought and comments are welcome.
I am an adult and can take what you think. Just don't say it suck unless you can tell me why so I can get better!

Nope, it sucks. Start again.......

















I am, of course, kidding. Keep going, you....

SilverHayabusa wrote:Starting sletckes now and will be at it within a half hour!

Figured larger scale practice would help...
And who wouldn't love a SM paperweight on their desk??


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Okay! I got about an hour tonight and started on the helmet!





Tell me what you think!
It's only a rough out of the main features but any thought and comments are welcome.
I am an adult and can take what you think. Just don't say it suck unless you can tell me why so I can get better!

That looks like a very solid base to work up from.

i think its looking nice so far, i would just pull the head down a bit more, as it is a tad rounded when the helm is more square

Ah helmet sculpting! a nice past-time.

ok...granted... the MK III helemt is one of the cooler variants of the SM helmet design...but...the beaky is always my favorite!!! can´t beat that!
tho on second thought it gots no rivets on...hmm...

you started a good job! will you sand later on the rough spots? or how will you move on from that? and how will you add the other details? nice project...and welcome to the club of peeps that start too many projects^^...

oh and how will you do the rivets on that helmet? perhaps some cut up rods?...and how big is that hemlet anyway?...

mxwllmdr wrote:Nope, it sucks. Start again.......

















I am, of course, kidding. Keep going, you....

Damn...
*Tosses out*

Well take two!


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I didn't see the bottom of that post...


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Viktor von Domm wrote:ok...granted... the MK III helemt is one of the cooler variants of the SM helmet design...but...the beaky is always my favorite!!! can´t beat that!
tho on second thought it gots no rivets on...hmm...

you started a good job! will you sand later on the rough spots? or how will you move on from that? and how will you add the other details? nice project...and welcome to the club of peeps that start too many projects^^...

oh and how will you do the rivets on that helmet? perhaps some cut up rods?...and how big is that hemlet anyway?...

I never actually liked beaky....
I thought that the Mk III although not my actual favorite offered alot to work from as a base.
It's made out of clay so I'm keeping it draped with a damp cloth. That stops it from hardening. It'll firm up before tonight so that I can smooth alittle. But I can still all detail and even out the sides more...

And it a "Knight Helm" and WILL be coated in rivets..
Within reason....

Maybe dunk head in glue and then in a bowl of rivets???

That wouldn't ruin it would it???


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Rogue Wolves wrote:i think its looking nice so far, i would just pull the head down a bit more, as it is a tad rounded when the helm is more square

How do you mean? More forward like?
Like he's looking more down then this position?

Sculpting is an entirely different skillset than building. Michelangelo (and others) have said "just look at the raw material and visualize your sculpture and bring it out" - I don't get that myself.

Oh, I use that approach to make my scratchbuilt tanks and other crazy ideas, I visualize the the plastic, or GS and let my hands work instinctively.

I can visualise what I want to make..
The problem tends to me letting it flow.
So thats what I'm working on now..
Who cares if I make a complete flop out of it I'm learning to let it out and hopefully if I'm lucky it'll work.

It looks good so far!

I haven't worked with clay since ruining an ashtray and a mug in Highschool! I hated it. Horrid stuff. Dried my hands out so bad they cracked and bled. But you can obviously do more with it than I can, so good job! The only part that I don't like so far is the curve in the face plate below the eyes. But it's not done yet, so I will wait to see how it progresses.

Don't get me wrong, I can "see" what I want it to look like, but it rarely ever turns out that way in the end.

made out of clay so I'm keeping it draped with a damp cloth. That stops it from hardening. It'll firm up before tonight so that I can smooth alittle. But I can still all detail and even out the sides more...

good idea!!! never thought about doing it that way...but that is the best thing to do!!!


oh and ...make the rivets but don´t roll´em on... sounds like a new version of riveting...but i am afraid with this bakery version you wont stand a chance in the league...lol...

Viktor von Domm wrote:ok...granted... the MK III helemt is one of the cooler variants of the SM helmet design...but...the beaky is always my favorite!!! can´t beat that!
tho on second thought it gots no rivets on...hmm...

Beaky is THE coolest of all the helmets ever made imo.. But as you said.. It lacks rivets.. :/



Nice work on the helm there! looks great!

can you slice a rod of GS without crimping the ends?

my favorite helm is the mark IV armor one

SilverHayabusa wrote:I can visualise what I want to make..
The problem tends to me letting it flow.
So thats what I'm working on now..
Who cares if I make a complete flop out of it I'm learning to let it out and hopefully if I'm lucky it'll work.

Excellent! That is the spirit!

@Dave. Well to be fair and honest, the original ideas I had for the tanks changed as the tanks sort of worked themselves out as it were.

Okay so was busy yesturday setting up for a huge presentation that was this morning so I'm am sorry that their was no updates...
But I'm home now and have done some work to the head!
I raised it so that it nolonger looks like he's looking off into space..

Looking good! I like the eyes!

Can you get a shot with a ruler or something for scale?

So Big! Nice! The vents are looking good!

One side of the head looks good!
I can never get things to line up right...

Oh well. I will keep at it...

I wanted to use up some of the mass amounts of clay that I have... However this only used like 2% of it....

I might have to make a larger one....?

No, that will be a cool size. you will just have to make the rest of the Marine when you get the helmet done!


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Can you imagine the size of the table these guys would have to play on?

Oh my... That would be huge....
Like 40' x 60'...

That would make me cry to try and build...
But it would be AWESOME!!!

Nah...with "heroic" proportions, he'd only be around 16" tall or so. It would be AWESOME!

Oh, the table...yeah, maybe 40 to 60'. You still should do it!

You wouldn't need to "build" the table, we'd play outside! REAL terrain!

OKAY so with this head as a 'base' I would have to make him...
How tall?

And this being that I want the marines to be art scale.. (Or whatever it's called)
Ohhh... *Drool* This would be EPIC

I want to do this....

Ok, this is really rough as I don't know these things very well, so if someone has better info, please correct me.

Let's say a space marine's helmet is 10 inches from top to neck. Your sculpture looks to be about 1-1/2 inches, for a scale factor of 1 to 6.7 roughly.

A "True/Art Scale" Space Marine is what, 7'6" (90 inches) tall? So, your's will have to be about 13.4 inches (or around 340 mm) to the top of his head. If I did the maths right.

Holy crapperz in a ....

My thought thus is...
Where would I store my army???

Just think of adding in a dreadnought... That would be massive... no wonder gamesworkshop whent with 28mm....