My friends, my fellow humans, in terms of history we're lucky to live in a relatively accepting time. People of other races intermingle. Crime is met with compassion rather than death. Even in social terms, formerly "weird" hobbies like video gaming are becoming more accepted.

Our hobby, however, still seems to rank somewhere between naked dance parties with members of the same gender and Khorne worship. (or his real world copycat, Stan or whatever). As a fairly average dude living without parental assistance since I left for college and working a steady part time job, I've always resented the low-to middlin' level of flak I get whenever the hobby comes up or god forbid I'm "caught" at a game store playing with a friend of mine. Through careful observation, I've looked into how other people at my FLGS respond to similar situations.

Response 1: the "man caught with illegal substances": "Oh hey, babe, I didn't know you'd be in the mall today. What? Oh, this. Mae I just came in here to check it out, I'm just standing in for some dude I sorta know from work. I think these are 'magic cards'. Check out these funky six sided things. Wild, huh?"

Response 2: the pre-emptive defensive blitz. "Yeah, yeah it's WARHAMMER, ok? Yeah, I guess I'm just a dork and you should give me a wedgie, you f----- Neanderthal b----!!! Go wathch your sports games and be a worthless corporate cog all your life, a------!

... God, moms, am I right?"

so my question to you, dakkaites, is... Have you found a more reasonable approach that, you know, works? Or should I just try and accept that despite my incredibly average circumstances I'm doomed to be ignoring people who think I'm some kind of social pariah for my chosen method of hanging with friends and relaxing in the evenings?

How to solve this problem:

1) Start attending more naked dance parties with members of the same gender.

2) Stop spending time around people who judge you for your hobbies.

Just play it cool. I always accepted its kind of dorky and if someone has a problem with it its their problem. Dont get defensive about it. Just claim it as it is and be proud.

Downplay it.

Don't wear WAAAAGH t-shirts to church.

Don't wear WS4 tshirts on a first date.

People that accept you don't give a crap about your "silly" hobbies.

People that do are people you shouldn't accept.

Graduated with the best possible result, got an active social life and two jobs - feth those guys if they wanna talk me down

You shouldn't show your mini collection to your crush though. It's not...that impressive.

I'm 32, I'm ok with being seen in public playing the game and such. I mean I have a job, I can use my money on what I want and not feel ashamed!

My only issue is when I go to GW stores to play a game or chat with people and I'm surrounded by 13 year olds and the look from parents thinking I'm some kind of pedophile.

Not enough larger comic type stores to play in around me (at least none that I know of) so I'm stuck going to GW stores.

I'm 6'4 and was 325lbs at my heaviest.

In highschool people didn't mock me for my interests.

The first time someone did I trolled him before "trolling" was a popculture phrase.

He lost his cool and took a swing. Then he spat on me. Then he snatched my glasses from my face.

3 strikes.

Next thing I see... His face. With my thumbs knuckle deep under his chin. His feet 18inches off the ground.

"Whoops, a little too angry" I think to myself. So I threw him about 10 feet into the football teams locker room.

If I hadn't regained control of myself I probably would have followed through with a few rib-breaking kicks.

After that incident, which happened infront of 2 classes of fellow students, no one made fun of my hobbies again.

I also got my first girlfriend shortly afterwards.

Violence, apparently, solves everything.

 Sigvatr wrote:
You shouldn't show your mini collection to your crush though. It's not...that impressive.

Of course you should. You're going to have to do it anyway, so you might as well filter out the people who would have a problem with it before you get too involved with them.

 DeffDred wrote:

Violence, apparently, solves everything.

This. Seriously. Had a similar problem at elementary...was overweight and people mocked me until I got fed up and broke one child's nose with a punch to the face. From this day on, people suddenly respected me.

Hooray for some good ol' bloody beating!

Don't go overboard talking about your hobby, but don't try to hide it either.

I've actually found that alot of people think its super cool, including hot women

Of course I'm going to a school on the fairly nerdy end of the spectrum so the demographic is probably favorable.

i like option one for some reason.....??? Oddly decadent.

Post 2012/09/26 17:33:48 Subject: Re:How do you approach the prejudice?
How to solve this problem:

1) Start attending more naked dance parties with members of the same gender.

2) Stop spending time around people who judge you for your hobbies.

This however, does bother me:

My only issue is when I go to GW stores to play a game or chat with people and I'm surrounded by 13 year olds and the look from parents thinking I'm some kind of pedophile.

having hit the 30 mark and just really getting into TT, I hate this look. Yeah I'm divorced and ride a motorcycle, play with toys, but I honestly don't want anything to do with your kids, unless they brought an army then I will crush them!

On being accused of bieng a 'nerd!'

If using my intelegence and imagination to take flight to fantastic worlds full of wonder and despair is being a nerd.
If experiancing the blood icing panic of close combat, and sheer exuberence of surviving makes me a nerd.
Knowing the soul crushing wieght of total victory AND total defeat makes me a nerd.
If finding a mirriad of ways to explore the human condition in depth and detail you have not the imagination to understand makes me a nerd.

Then in your eyes I am a nerd.But it pales in comparision to the pity I feel for your shallow existance.

(Round of applause from fellow gamers , and the slow and embarrased withdraw of the acuser.)

Rah rah rah

See, I'm not disconsolately wailing about why my misunderstood brilliance isn't thought of as the art that it truly is. My objective is, when approached with the question of "so where do you go every Sunday afternoon" how I can phrase "I bring my hand painted collection of small plastic men to a store and collaboratively imagine them battling with another person aided by six sided plastic cubes" in such a way that I get the default response of "oh." This response is the norm when you say things like "I put on tight pants and a helmet and hit other similarly clad men while trying to carry a melon across a line painted in the grass" and "I introduce mild depressants into my bloodstream until walking is difficult".

However, in my experience a large number of people respond to my explanation of my hobby with the blank stare usually reserved for "I don a felt suit depicting a cartoon animal and make sweet love to strangers"

How can I avoid this, is my real question.

"I enjoy hanging out and playing board games with friends."

the_scotsman wrote:
My objective is, when approached with the question of "so where do you go every Sunday afternoon" how I can phrase "I bring my hand painted collection of small plastic men to a store and collaboratively imagine them battling with another person aided by six sided plastic cubes" in such a way that I get the default response of "oh."

I play games. Like chess, but with more skulls.

That's more than enough to cover any kind of situation where you have to participate in the conversation (work, for example), and if you're looking for an excuse with your friends, well, you need to get some new friends.

This response is the norm when you say things like "I put on tight pants and a helmet and hit other similarly clad men while trying to carry a melon across a line painted in the grass"

See, here's the problem. Your response should be "I take off my tight pants and helmet and wrestle with a bunch of similarly non-clad men while attempting to "carry a melon across a line"". Which, now that I think about it, would be a much more entertaining sport...

However, in my experience a large number of people respond to my explanation of my hobby with the blank stare usually reserved for "I don a felt suit depicting a cartoon animal and make sweet love to strangers"

And, seriously this time, this is your problem. As soon as you start looking at your hobby as something to be ashamed of people will notice and agree with you that it's something to be ashamed of. On the other hand, if your answer is "I HAVE AWESOME FURRY SEX YOU LOSERS YOU JUST WISH YOU WERE AS COOL AS ME" then it's just another hobby.

Stop caring. Anyone who thinks your deal is weird probably has their own dirty little secrets or are incredibly boring. Tell them to FO and find new friends.

As my generation put it, let your freak flag fly.

I fail to see how any reasonable person would equate naked/lingerie football with playing with toy soldiers

I don't really care what people think of my gobies really. I have fun with them. Someone mentioned the t-shirts, I love them but it's even more funny because most people don't get them. My wife hates it when she doesn't get the joke. On a side not be carful were you wear mini wargamings "I'm primed in black shirt". It can be taken wrong. Had some lady rave at me for 5min about being racist. Told her it was a model t-shirt joke but she still didn't believe me, o well.

Generally i'm just honest, i have a fair few ammounts of friends, the kinds that go to gigs and clubs and wear cool tshirts and have lots of followers on Tumblr, and i'm similar, kinda indie go to gigs and whatnot

So when they find out i like to collect, model and paint warhammer, some can be a little bit weird about it, but i just explain that i find it really engaging, the painting is really relaxing and i enjoyed it as a kid so like the nostalga and most of them are like, fair enough. and the ones that arn't i don't care ha

 Grey Templar wrote:
I fail to see how any reasonable person would equate naked/lingerie football with playing with toy soldiers

Clearly you're not playing 40k correctly.

 DeffDred wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I fail to see how any reasonable person would equate naked/lingerie football with playing with toy soldiers

Clearly you're not playing 40k correctly.

obviously not.

From now on I shall play 40k and all wargames while dressed in either my Gollum or Elmo suit(I do the voices quite well actually)

 Grey Templar wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I fail to see how any reasonable person would equate naked/lingerie football with playing with toy soldiers

Clearly you're not playing 40k correctly.

obviously not.

From now on I shall play 40k and all wargames while dressed in either my Gollum or Elmo suit(I do the voices quite well actually)

I do a great Meatwad.

Also, as a side note, if you're going to put stats on a tshirt why would you only give yourself WS4? Besides, that stat means hardly anything in Warhammer!

Maybe the people who'd judge you for that are merely worried that you're advertising that you have a 2/3 chance of punching them.

I don't really tell anybody about it, though I don't really hide it either. Though I'm probably still insecure about it so I kind of down play it a little.

For example, if someone asks me about it I will tell them about it. I kind of describe it in vague way though.

I agree violence works the Emprah prove sit so
and really WS 4 you need to make a WS8 shirt or a tau shirt saying You wanna see my greater wood
or a rubric t-shirt
or more slaneeshi parties

if people ask I talk about it I simply tell them about the hobby, I even had a 4 hour chat with a priest once about warhammer he was keen to learn about it.
I honestly don't think I have ever got a bad response from anyone I respected about it. who is asking you these questions ?

Considering this hobby generally attracts people with bad hygine and poor social skills I shrug my shoulders and say "Yeah its pretty dorky" and keep playing (with my nose covered)

I get stick nearly every day from the guys at my work, barring the fact that some are ignorant morons, the others aren't actually bad people but still enjoy ribbing me for it.

I simply ignore them or join in, either way it doesn't really bother me, the way I see it I could do a lot stupider or weirder things with my time.

At least I've got the guts to not hide what I do and take pride in it.

I just dont care. Like right now i'm in the student union building, where the magic players and yu-gi-oh player have settledown and play games all day long.
I dont get judged when i pull out a 40k book, sme if i go to the library and start watching paint vids.
Where i am we are accepting, I have noticed that anyone who really insults you is
1: A family Member
2: Trying to get a rise out of me
3: Sad and drinks alot.

Part of me wants to say (in a friendly, well meaning tone of voice, of course) "Page 5. grow a pair. stand up for yourself, and for what you enjoy doing. because you know what? you're doing nothing wrong. you've got nothing to be ashamed of, or to apologise for."

but to answer your question properly, i find my irish accent helps. only thing that beats having an irish accent is having morgan freeman narrate your daily routine. (and even then, if he could do it in an irish accent, we would all be elevated to a plane of existence best described as pure awesomeness)

but seriously. im a 27 year old guy. tall. well built. fit. you know, a relatively normal guy, with relatively normal interests? People tend to like me. most importantly, Im socially comfortable, and socially capable.

People ask what that stuff is in the corner of my room, or they ask about all the paint stains, and knife marks on my table, and i shrug and tell them. "Yeah, its a hobby of mine". Strangely enough, here in the UK, most people have heard of it, know someone who plays/played it, or have played/play it themselves. or do something similar. so its not all that strange. Quite often, you might even get the comeback "yeah, well i play space wolves" or something to those lines. Even if they dont play it, most folks are actually quite curious about it, or at the very worst, will respect your appreciation of it, even if they dont "get" it. So yeah, if that happens and they show interest, give the discovery channel answer, dont spend three hours discussing the merits, flaws and gme mechanics, otherwise you're date is gonna run, and leave you with the bill.

So yeah, im open and honest about my hobbies (and most people have something odd that they enjoy). Its fine to be a wargamer. whats not fine is only being capable of taking about wargaming. you know, broaden you're interests, broaden your horizons and all that. strangely, it tends to fit in well with this thing called "life".

as to "predjudice". wrong word. Predjudice is what the blacks had to deal with in the 50s and 60s (and still do, in many places). "predjudice" with regard to 40k is elevating a reaction to a hobby to a level it does not deserve, in the grand scheme of things. "predjudice" is reserved for a far harsher shade of life's goings on. if someone has issues with me because i play games, then that is more of a black mark on them, than on me. there is so many worse things i could be, and be involved it, that getting into a huff over wargames is actually, kinda sad.

I just say it's advanced chess with custom pieces and people go "oooohh, ok".

evilsponge wrote:
Considering this hobby generally attracts people with bad hygine and poor social skills I shrug my shoulders and say "Yeah its pretty dorky" and keep playing (with my nose covered)

This must depend on where you play, because I've only had this experience a couple of times. Most of the people that play at the FLGS are pretty normal dudes, with decent hygiene. Their social skills also seem relatively normal (as far as "normal" goes that is), though the subject matter that they're discussing is obviously fairly nerdy.

Militarized wrote:
I just say it's advanced chess with custom pieces and people go "oooohh, ok".

LOL!

I have used this explanation as well.

I have a professionally painted Warhound Titan in my office. I field questions all the time from all sorts of ignorant turds about the "toy" on my desk.

It can't be any worse than the Ferraris and Masers that decorate others workplaces.

Now, imagine the respect I'd get when it came time to park my real Warhound... I'd always get the coveted spot near the door then by god!

 DeffDred wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I fail to see how any reasonable person would equate naked/lingerie football with playing with toy soldiers

Clearly you're not playing 40k correctly.

obviously not.

From now on I shall play 40k and all wargames while dressed in either my Gollum or Elmo suit(I do the voices quite well actually)

I do a great Meatwad.

Clearly that last part did not come out quite as intended...?

Post pic of models on Facebook, wait till girl tells you they're badass (had it happen), realise girl lives in another province, weep­.

 Peregrine wrote:
How to solve this problem:

1) Start attending more naked dance parties with members of the same gender.

Perhaps more naked dance parties with members of the opposite gender?

In all seriousness, if you can afford to play, then you are doing better then some. Let them continue to burn brain cells on watching the latest Jersey Shore, or pretending that their hobbies are better. It does not matter one wit.

Militarized wrote:
I just say it's advanced chess with custom pieces and people go "oooohh, ok".

Works pretty well. My short explanation is "visually attractive chess with dice".

When I am unsure of how someone will respond to my hobby I play down the geeky aspect of the game and play up the intelectual side of it. "I go to a local store and use my little plastic space vikings to beat up little plastic space comunists" will elicit a very different responce then "I go play a miniature war game against other players. Its like chess but each side has slighly different rules so the game can be compleatly dofferent depending on who you play." One says I play with toys, while the other makes it seem like a mental exercise. (not exactly how I want that second part to sound but it gets the point across) Both are true but its all about how you sell it to the other person.

Whenever someone tells me I'm a nerd for playing 40K I tell them to "Come over to the nerd side" in my best emperor palpatine voice.

From my experience, the 'stigma' attached to wargaming comes far more from gamers than from everyone else. I've encountered far more non-gamers who thought my collection was cool, or who thought it was a little strange but no more so than many other hobbies, than who actually looked down on it.

It's the gamers themselves who tend to be embarrassed about it. And if you're getting people sneering at you because of that, it's not the gaming specifically that they're having a go at... they're just picking up the fact they you're embarrassed about it, and that makes it a target.

I'm not the most socially-comfortable guy in the room... but I've never tried to hide my gaming or acted embarrassed about how I spend my free time... and the reaction to my hobby has always been pretty universally positive.

prophet102 wrote:Just play it cool. I always accepted its kind of dorky and if someone has a problem with it its their problem. Dont get defensive about it. Just claim it as it is and be proud.

Amen to this. Of course it's a little about finding the right balance between your honest enthusiasm and some shy attempt to dodge the subject, too. Don't punch it into people's face, just ... don't hide it either. It's part of who you are and nothing to be ashamed of.

Personally, I even found that being proud to be a nerd ultimately leads to a happier life. Some people may regard you as weird, but those are the ones you probably wouldn't feel comfortable around anyways. Good friends do not necessarily have to share your interest for "the geeky stuff", but they'll still accept you for who you are and recognise your personal strengths instead of limiting your persona to that of some cliché in their prejudiced heads. It's a coming out of sorts, and it is liberating. I can wear a "mask" when I have to, but in general you'll have much more fun if you embrace a little bit of craziness. After all, the world already is a serious-enough place, and humour is the best way to fight depression.

Of course, in my case people already generally get to know me as "weird" before learning of my interest in 40k, so it generally doesn't really surprise anyone.

Peregrine wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:You shouldn't show your mini collection to your crush though. It's not...that impressive.

Of course you should. You're going to have to do it anyway, so you might as well filter out the people who would have a problem with it before you get too involved with them.

Peregrine has a good point. What applies to good friends applies to lovers, too. Perhaps even moreso.

Maybe I'm picky, but imho a relationship requires trust and respect for one another, and this extends to one's hobbies as well. Having a boy- or girlfriend with whom you actually share a hobby is the best thing in the world, but even if you're not as lucky - don't surprise your future wife or husband with an expensive pastime that a whole lot of people might see as childish. "You spent $200 on that?!"

Just don't mention it in public. If it slips out, play it off as a video game. If someone sees the models, say your selling them on ebay to pay for a class or something

I usually just give a short synopsis of what I do.

Only I have full confidence when I say it

Never had a problem and some people even like to hear a little more about it.

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
Just don't mention it in public. If it slips out, play it off as a video game. If someone sees the models, say your selling them on ebay to pay for a class or something

Yeah, the best thing to do is lie about your hobbies. I'm sure that won't cause you any problems, and nobody will ever realize that you're lying out of embarrassment and identify that as a target for future teasing.

Or you could just stop spending time with people who would judge you for your hobbies.

Maybe I'm picky, but imho a relationship requires trust and respect for one another, and this extends to one's hobbies as well. Having a boy- or girlfriend with whom you actually share a hobby is the best thing in the world, but even if you're not as lucky - don't surprise your future wife or husband with an expensive pastime that a whole lot of people might see as childish. "You spent $200 on that?!"

Exactly. Even ignoring the practical "you spent HOW MUCH??" problem, how much respect can you really have for your partner if you're going to lie about trivial stuff like that? If you really think that's ok you need to go buy a realdoll instead and spare your potential partner the trouble of having to deal with you.

(And for the record, I never tried to hide my geeky hobbies from my girlfriend. She thought it was cool before I officially met her, and she still likes my painting even though she doesn't have any interest in playing herself. And yet somehow I still have a nice happy relationship.)

Like a wedding I attended. Both were bronies and invited a lot of us from the local fandom.

They had to tell nothing, we all knew already that it was not okay to show up with pony shirts or cosplay (and you'd be surprised at how well dressed/behaved the younger ones were).

The bride had a pony plushie with her later that caused some silly photos, but that was all.

If someone asked me if I knew what it was, I'd say yes. If someone asked me if I actually watched that show, I'd say yes.

Same with say, Warhammer, I wouldn't have gone with a WAAAAAAGH t-shirt neither.

I am 6foot 2 do a lot of cardio work out a little weights and kickbox, I cant say many people would say I am a geek, but I am and proud of it, without being a geek i wouldnt have done well when i worked for quite a few multi nationals nor be able to do what I do now for work, as far as hobbies go there are far worse out there and I have had some worse ones before.

I do get the mick taking out of me by some members of my family but I can give as good as I can get so it doesnt bother me, admittedly I dont advertise the fact I play with toy soldiers but dont hide it either

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
Just don't mention it in public. If it slips out, play it off as a video game. If someone sees the models, say your selling them on ebay to pay for a class or something

and nobody will ever realize that you're lying out of embarrassment

Thats the point of lying... Nobody ever realizes

47 years old, wife, two sons, three dogs, a house in the suburbs. You can play wargames and be perfectly normal.

If one actively hides it (and worse if it's with lies) people will assume that it's something to be ashamed for and will act accordingly.

As long at it's nothing actually bad, be proud of what you like; just don't shove it though other's throats all the time.

"- So you play with those miniatures?"

"- Yes, I hang around with friends and throw a game or two, we prefer it over sitting in front of a pc"

I've always described it as chess and risk mixed together, and "it's just a hobby".

 TheAngrySquig wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
Just don't mention it in public. If it slips out, play it off as a video game. If someone sees the models, say your selling them on ebay to pay for a class or something

and nobody will ever realize that you're lying out of embarrassment

Thats the point of lying... Nobody ever realizes

Just like how it's totally convincing when someone gets caught with a porn magazine and says they have it for the articles?

I havent had to deal with prejudice. I find people like the fact that people have hobbies that dont involve illegal substances, alchohol, or that are debasing or morality.

That, and for anyone who is mildly artistic, they can appreciate the minis at least! haha

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheAngrySquig wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
Just don't mention it in public. If it slips out, play it off as a video game. If someone sees the models, say your selling them on ebay to pay for a class or something

and nobody will ever realize that you're lying out of embarrassment

Thats the point of lying... Nobody ever realizes

Just like how it's totally convincing when someone gets caught with a porn magazine and says they have it for the articles?

No. You come up with a good lie. Say you are painting them for your younger sibling and then hide them better

"Oh what are they?"

"It's warhammer. Fantasy stuff, kind of like Lord of the Rings. Let's go have sex"

"Okay"

Seriously. No one cares.

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
No. You come up with a good lie. Say you are painting them for your younger sibling and then hide them better

Except people aren't stupid. Nobody believes you bought that furry porn magazine "for the articles", and nobody believes you that you're painting them "for your younger brother". They're going to see exactly what's going on, that you're ashamed of your hobby and have to lie about it. And guess what, if you consider it something to be ashamed of they are going to treat it as something to be ashamed of and shame you for it.

The alternative is to just openly say "yeah, I play that game" and stop wasting time on people who would judge you for it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
No. You come up with a good lie. Say you are painting them for your younger sibling and then hide them better

Except people aren't stupid. Nobody believes you bought that furry porn magazine "for the articles", and nobody believes you that you're painting them "for your younger brother". They're going to see exactly what's going on, that you're ashamed of your hobby and have to lie about it. And guess what, if you consider it something to be ashamed of they are going to treat it as something to be ashamed of and shame you for it.

The alternative is to just openly say "yeah, I play that game" and stop wasting time on people who would judge you for it.

You are giving people to much credit. I had that excuse work on a girl whos been family friends with me for a while and I don't have a little brother

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
You are giving people to much credit. I had that excuse work on a girl whos been family friends with me for a while and I don't have a little brother

Well, I'm sorry that your standards are low enough that you'd settle for someone that stupid.

And even if the lie does work, it still doesn't change the fact that you're lying. Grow up and have some pride.

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
You are giving people to much credit. I had that excuse work on a girl whos been family friends with me for a while and I don't have a little brother

Well, I'm sorry that your standards are low enough that you'd settle for someone that stupid.

And even if the lie does work, it still doesn't change the fact that you're lying. Grow up and have some pride.

I would never settle for anyone smarter. Grow up and learn to hide massive swathes of yourself for sexual pleasure

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
I would never settle for anyone smarter. Grow up and learn to hide massive swathes of yourself for sexual pleasure

Right. So a mature adult is defined as someone who has to lie about themselves to get sex. Just to put this in context, how old are you?


PS: there are plenty of us having lots of sexual pleasure without hiding anything. It's called not being 15 anymore.

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
I would never settle for anyone smarter. Grow up and learn to hide massive swathes of yourself for sexual pleasure

how old are you?


15

Right

Then you might find once you actually finish puberty that your perspective changes somewhat.

So how about we leave the discussion on the merits of lying to get girls for a more appropriate venue...

See, here's the problem. Your response should be "I take off my tight pants and helmet and wrestle with a bunch of similarly non-clad men while attempting to "carry a melon across a line"". Which, now that I think about it, would be a much more entertaining sport...

So.... Rugby?

Its your life. live how you want to. feth anyone who judges you for doing it differently than them.

Everyone I met that balks at me for being a gamer is always bored with nothing to do, while I'm struggling to find time to do anything more than I already am. Between collecting, painting, and playing, I have little time to do anything else other than work and spend time with the kiddos.

As for relationships, I met the love of my life through gaming. I would encourage showing off what you do. If they roll their eyes at you, you know its not going far. (It gets damn annoying after the first 300 or so when you start talking stats). But its great when you can carry on a conversation about what you love with someone you love.

The short of it: Its what you love. So what if it isn't the norm for others.

Doesnt matter in the end as long you make a good buck out of it . People stop judging you when your hobby generates an avarge for country income and your age 16+. Girlfriend finds hobby wierd , buy her and yourself a trip full expanses paid out of your painting job or take her with you when Orgs pay you a hotel for being a judge at a big tournament . Parents nagging , pay for water/gas/interent/rent they will never nagg again. Money fixes everything.

 Lynata wrote:
Peregrine has a good point. What applies to good friends applies to lovers, too. Perhaps even moreso.P

Wasn't specific enough. I was talking about 40k not going to help you getting to first base. I told my gf about it of course, but not on the first date...I don't think saying you play with little plastic miniatures is a good way to getting laid.

Seperate your life. I have gaming buddies, drinking buddies, co-workers, and assorted crazed women in my life. I keep them all seperate. makes damage control easy and when one pisses me off i have three other options to explore. It also helps that my work includes a side arm and everyone knows it.
Get a revolver and ask people to go to the range with you. Its a real tactful way of saying "I have a gun" with out making a threat or having to resort to a good ol beat down. Yes going Skinny white boy ape s--t is a good way to make an example of someone, but there is the whole "pressing charges" and "Civil lawsuit" angle now that we are adults.

Most women will think its weird that we nerd out... Most of us will think its weird they pee in groups. Just because they think it is nerdy DOES NOT mean they look down on you for it.

And next time try saying this: "oh hea -insert name here-. looks like you caught me nerding out. wanna grab some dinner later?

If they are a D-bag about it invite them to the gun range.

How do I approah the prejudice? By flipping people the bird and saying "I could be drinking myself stupid every night, cheering for sports teams that don't care I exist." And which is worse, being able to spout endless sports statistics or knowing what planets different Space Marines came from? In reality, neither.

Everyone has their "geek", and those who say they don't are just lying to themselves.

Like everyone else here man, My advise to you is a life lesson. You will find value in things others will not; if you are then judged for it you must ask yourself why that is happening and if its playful or borderline serious. If It's passive aggressive attacks at you then you need to tell them how it is and say you won't be changing that about youself. If you can't be comfortable around people having your own hobbies how can you expect to take conversations about it?

40k or any culture for that matter will always have people who patronize you for a simple interest. I just shrug and continue to play and enjoy the conversations and discussions I have with like-minded people (most of the time >.&gt

You are in charge of your life and your money is yours to spend how you want... they might have good advise tho... 40k isn't cheap lol.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Peregrine has a good point. What applies to good friends applies to lovers, too. Perhaps even moreso.P

Wasn't specific enough. I was talking about 40k not going to help you getting to first base. I told my gf about it of course, but not on the first date...I don't think saying you play with little plastic miniatures is a good way to getting laid.

this is wrong btw, an emergent culture of hottie gamer chicks now roam the roleplaying and wargaming wastelands looking for the echo mating calls of virgins passed. Like the keen opportunist hunter "Man" is he now must adapt to survive these change conditions and learn where now to hunt for his prey. The older males will continue to follow tradition until supplies dry out and they are reduced to mere marriages to survive; yet the keen alpha males having demonstrated where best to stalk for these bounties shall emerge victorious and thus survival of the fittest continues in it's still purest form.

 wowsmash wrote:
I don't really care what people think of my gobies really. I have fun with them. Someone mentioned the t-shirts, I love them but it's even more funny because most people don't get them. My wife hates it when she doesn't get the joke. On a side not be carful were you wear mini wargamings "I'm primed in black shirt". It can be taken wrong. Had some lady rave at me for 5min about being racist. Told her it was a model t-shirt joke but she still didn't believe me, o well.

While living in a smaller town with no hobby stores that sold GW I had to get my warhammer fix by ordering 40k titles from the local bookstore

so I walk in there one day and ask the lady behind the counter if she could look up new titles from the Black Library, so a lady...probably around 50-55 was very impressed with my diverse cultural tastes and was espousing Black authors and how great they were...(note this town was the whitest of white so I was a little amused) so she was very happy until I had to explain to her that the Black Library is the publisher for novels based on a war game...then she became a little grumpy...ah well! = P

Wargaming now a days is rather mainstream. I dont know anyone nor have met anyone recently that did not know a little about it.

No female I have ever been with has ever batted an eyelid at it whether I mentioned it first date, second etc. If anything they have been rather open to the cool factor or even showed an interest in learning about it.

Anyone that hides what they do be it wargaming or whatever get over it. If you hide what makes you, you then what are you......

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
You shouldn't show your mini collection to your crush though. It's not...that impressive.

Of course you should. You're going to have to do it anyway, so you might as well filter out the people who would have a problem with it before you get too involved with them.

I fully agree with this and all other comments made by Peregrine in this thread. I've advised my son to use our hobby as a jerk filter. Don't throw it in people's faces, but don't hide it. People that have a serious problem with it are people he shouldn't be hanging around with.

When he meets a new girl, he knows she's a keeper when she sees his models and doesn't run screaming.

this means he gets a smaller pool of girls to pick from , that is without starting to judge , if those runing away are or arent better , then those that stay . Such a selection is a negative one and most of the time will not leave a pool of women one would desire to pick from. hiding anything against women doesnt make sense of course , but one should not use hobbies as test. If a women accepts a hobby then either the hobby isnt a hobby or the women are second sort . When picking out friends or girlfriends it is way better to point out how the hobby is mirroring your financial status or your ability to aquire goods. a 2000$ army may get you killed by your wife . But telling your future girlfriend that you spent 2k$ on your hobby from money you earned yourself and your like 15-16 is a total winer . Only thing better is money and being a profesional sportsman at the same time

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:


this is wrong btw, an emergent culture of hottie gamer chicks now roam the roleplaying and wargaming wastelands looking for the echo mating calls of virgins passed. Like the keen opportunist hunter "Man" is he now must adapt to survive these change conditions and learn where now to hunt for his prey. The older males will continue to follow tradition until supplies dry out and they are reduced to mere marriages to survive; yet the keen alpha males having demonstrated where best to stalk for these bounties shall emerge victorious and thus survival of the fittest continues in it's still purest form.

Well sorry gals, I'm not available

I don't let prejudice against my wargaming hobbies affect me. If people make fun of you for playing the game, just make them look like an idiot. It's what I do.

People who call people "nerds" in a negative manner are immature bastards that need to grow up.

To the younger generation:

So you play with little soldiers, why aren't you doing something cooler like playing computer games?
So you play computer games, whay aren't you outside getting some fresh air?
So you're outside, why aren't you inside making less noise and pursuiing a creative hobby?
So you aren't going to please everyone, do what you enjoy doing.

I tend not to get any flak for playing games but then again I have several degrees and occasionally teach at universities and colleges so I am allowed to be a little "eccentric" as long as I wear my tweed jacket and smoke my pipe thoughtfully.

I’ve found the best response is simply not giving a f@#k.
The people who really matter in your life, family, true friends, partners etc won't care what you’re into as long as you’re happy. The rest are just numbers mate.

I think someone summed it up fantastically earlier, use it as a way of filtering out people who are just not worth it.

I just created a safe haven:

I'm 30 something, married, two children, own my own medium to large house, have a good job (not great, I teach, so not a lot of money there), and a Master's Degree in something other than education.

I also am 6'4", 240 lbs, played college sports, and have a fairly solid self-esteem and confidence.

About 4 years ago, I started an after school table top gaming club. Its grown to just shy of 20 members. We have our own tables, terrain, fortifications, rulebooks etc. I encourage parents to come and even participate, and I let my students come after they've graduated. I've got around 20K in figures (CSM, SM, BT, DA, Tau, Ork, IG). We have SW, Eldar, Nid, and Cron players who are at the 2k+ level.

The point being, go make a safe place if you can't find one. Grow your club, link with FLGS, and don't be ashamed of it. If you act like it something to be ashamed of, people think you're wierd and see you as a mark. If you're open about it, people accept it and move on. You might get some light ribbing and some little jabs, but you can't be a raging, mouthbreathing, neckbeard about it. Accept the joke, invite them to come play some time, and blow it off. Bullying ends when there's no reaction.

My students are athletes, have girlfriends, and are leaders. I also have some that are socially awkward. They all mingle freely and play the game. I'm not loud and proud about it, but I don't tolerate bullying or the like.

If *you* think there's something wrong with it or explain it in a way that you believe there is something wrong with playing 40k, then whoever you talk to will get that impression.

It's a game. Like chess or monopoly. You have little things you push around a board and somebody wins. Everyone plays games, imagine how many grandma's played Angry Birds at it's height. Some people get really into chess others the latest Halo game, again, not much different.

People will like you if you are likable and fun to be around. In part this means being interesting AND showing genuine interest in them and their hobbies.

Some people like sitting on their butt for 4 hours watching a football/soccer game every Sunday, building stuff in their garage or talking about dog breeding. This isn't any different and certainly has a social aspect.

However, if you go around yelling "Blood for the Blood God!" or some stupid crap then yeah, you'll be relegated to that class of nerd from which you can only escape from with time and distance.

Where is this prejudice people keep talking about?

I'm more deprecating toward my hobbies than "outsiders" are. My coworkers all know about what I do, hell, I have two painted space marines on my desk in plain sight. They've admitted they wished that they had the time and money to get involved themselves.

I think part of the trick is in how YOU present it (and yourself). Moderation is always the trick. If you try to hide it or act like there's something wrong with you for liking it, well, that's probably what you're going to get. Likewise, if you're running around in a Space Marine helmet screaming "for the emprah" in public, well, you're going to get what's coming to you.

Be calm, be natural, and if anyone asks, show them as much as they're interested. I got a "holy gak, you really painted those? That's amazing!" and that's it. Occasionally, they show interest, asking when the next tournament is, or how well I did, if there was one recently.

It's possible to be both human and a nerd at the same time.

the_scotsman wrote:
so my question to you, dakkaites, is... Have you found a more reasonable approach that, you know, works? Or should I just try and accept that despite my incredibly average circumstances I'm doomed to be ignoring people who think I'm some kind of social pariah for my chosen method of hanging with friends and relaxing in the evenings?

The easiest way to deal with such things is to not care one bit about what other people think about your hobbies. Works fine for me. An insult easily answered with a "whatever" has no power at all. Who cares if you have to ignore someone who thinks you are a social pariah? It isn't like you want to spend time with such shallow people anyway. Never understood why gamers get upset when non-gamers won't give them the time of day because of their hobbies. I have no interest in spending my social time with people who denigrate me and insult me because of something I enjoy. It isn't like you are hanging nude art photos of Ernest Borgnine around your family room for all to see. THAT would be a hobby worth being embarrassed about. I'll spend my time with the people who embrace my hobbies or take the attitude of "not for me, but if you like it more power to you".

I wouldn't consider it being doomed. I would consider it not hanging out with close minded twits...

Skriker

Where is this prejudice people keep talking about?

paying a lot of money for plastic toys when your a grown up man is viewed as stupid in mild and crazy in more hardcore cases , by the general population . There are two things you can do . You can do stuff that gets money or that gets status[which is money too in a way] . Hobbies that show how rich you are are viewed as good . Cars for example or golf. here it makes no sense .there is no tradition of golf playing . but it is showing of status . Plastic toys , do not come under the same category .

It's possible to be both human and a nerd at the same time.

the west is a strange place , sometimes the need for so much psychotherapy does become much clearer to me . Acceptance of strange behaviors must have its source somewhere.

Motograter wrote:
Anyone that hides what they do be it wargaming or whatever get over it. If you hide what makes you, you then what are you......

Agreed. If you are ashamed enough of your hobby that you have to hide it from people then you really do deserve to be ridculed about it. Man up. Own who you are and enjoy your life. No other way to be.

Skriker

 Peregrine wrote:

Right. So a mature adult is defined as someone who has to lie about themselves to get sex.

Yep

Makumba wrote:

Where is this prejudice people keep talking about?

paying a lot of money for plastic toys when your a grown up man is viewed as stupid in mild and crazy in more hardcore cases , by the general population . There are two things you can do . You can do stuff that gets money or that gets status[which is money too in a way] . Hobbies that show how rich you are are viewed as good . Cars for example or golf. here it makes no sense .there is no tradition of golf playing . but it is showing of status . Plastic toys , do not come under the same category .

Hmm. Perhaps I'm so far removed from reality that I don't really encounter anyone who thinks this. The guy that sits next to me spends all his disposable income enterprise level computer and network equipment he doesn't actually need so that he can 'stay sharp'. A lady I work with buys crazy expensive ingredients to cook gourmet quality food at home. Still another guy spends most of his money on parts to build his own musical accessories (guitar pedals and the like). I'm surrounded by people who create

It may be that I'm just that far removed from the "idle consumers" of the land.

It's possible to be both human and a nerd at the same time.

the west is a strange place , sometimes the need for so much psychotherapy does become much clearer to me . Acceptance of strange behaviors must have its source somewhere.

I'm not certain what exactly you mean by this.

I just shrug and explain it in the briefest possible way. I assume other people aren't that interested in my crap. If someone expresses more interest I will explain a little more. I don't worry at all if someone sees me playing, I just say "Yeah, this is what I like to do with my free time."

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Peregrine has a good point. What applies to good friends applies to lovers, too. Perhaps even moreso.P

Wasn't specific enough. I was talking about 40k not going to help you getting to first base. I told my gf about it of course, but not on the first date...I don't think saying you play with little plastic miniatures is a good way to getting laid.

You just hang out with the wrong women. Seriously, 40k actually helps my marriage.

I treat the hobby like it's nothing abnormal. People get used to it after a while.

Then again, the fact that I'm a student of game design and hang out with the nerdiest people imaginable probably helps my case...

 Ratbarf wrote:

See, here's the problem. Your response should be "I take off my tight pants and helmet and wrestle with a bunch of similarly non-clad men while attempting to "carry a melon across a line"". Which, now that I think about it, would be a much more entertaining sport...

So.... Rugby?

Nope, Naked Rugby! The man's game

Makumba wrote:
paying a lot of money for plastic toys when your a grown up man is viewed as stupid in mild and crazy in more hardcore cases , by the general population .

No, it's not.

It's viewed that way by gamers. The 'general population' is well aware of the fact that hobbies can be expensive. Go walk into a fishing tackle shop and check out the prices of lures some time.

 Skriker wrote:

Motograter wrote:
Anyone that hides what they do be it wargaming or whatever get over it. If you hide what makes you, you then what are you......

Agreed. If you are ashamed enough of your hobby that you have to hide it from people then you really do deserve to be ridculed about it. Man up. Own who you are and enjoy your life. No other way to be.

Skriker

What if you're not ashamed of it.
I wasn't but I didn't mention it. The moment someone found out I said "yes, it's a hobby it happens to be enjoyable"
The next day I was ridiculed by the entire school just because I had a hobby that didn't involve drugs or smoking.

Now I refuse to mention it because I'm incredibly paranoid.

What if that happens?

Sorry if I came off rude.

Sir Bushwookie

 insaniak wrote:

Makumba wrote:
paying a lot of money for plastic toys when your a grown up man is viewed as stupid in mild and crazy in more hardcore cases , by the general population .

No, it's not.

It's viewed that way by gamers. The 'general population' is well aware of the fact that hobbies can be expensive. Go walk into a fishing tackle shop and check out the prices of lures some time.

It's not just gamers despite the poor stereotyping your attempting here, you can find within each hobby that wonders why they are paying for that stuff and how can it be fun, and don't they see that my hobby is better and more worthwhile to pursue.

You'll find sports players that think spending money on sports that isn't their own is a worthless waste of money and time, and you'll even find on here Wargamers that hate other Wargames and wonder why people still play them instead of that wonderful game they are playing now.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
It's not just gamers despite the poor stereotyping your attempting here, you can find within each hobby that wonders why they are paying for that and how can it be fun, and don't they see that my hobby is better and more worthwhile to pursue?

Yeah, but it's still internal to the hobby. The guy paying $100/hour in gas for his airplane isn't thinking "why does someone pay $100 for toy soldiers that's stupid"*, he's probably barely aware that 40k exists and has no idea how much it costs. The only way anyone is going to know or care about the cost of your hobby is if you tell them it in a way that sounds like you're ashamed of paying that much.


*Picking up that hobby sure put the cost of 40k in perspective...

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
It's not just gamers despite the poor stereotyping your attempting here, you can find within each hobby that wonders why they are paying for that stuff and how can it be fun, and don't they see that my hobby is better and more worthwhile to pursue.

You'll find sports players that think spending money on sports that isn't their own is a worthless waste of money and time, and you'll even find on here Wargamers that hate other Wargames and wonder why people still play them instead of that wonderful game they are playing now.

Sorry, I'm missing how your response has anything to do with what I said.

My point was the same as I made earlier in the thread. It's not about stereotyping... it's simply that, from my experience, gamers tend to look down on their own hobby far more than everyone else does. Not all gamers... but the more insecure amongst us certainly.

Out in the real world, (meaning outside the hallowed halls of high school, and into the generally grown-up adult world) the vast majority of people won't care in the slightest how you spend your spare time or your money, and while people often don't completely understand those pursuits seen as a bit nerdy, they generallly don't actually have a problem with them.

I just own it and make jokes first, then, when people start giving me grief about it, I just pull out the iphone and start showing them pictures of my models like they are my babies...which they are...then I ask them 'see, how much cooler are these than looking at more baby photo's right?'

If you defuse someones attempt to annoy you before they can, they just end up looking stupid for trying to get a rise out of you for something you clearly love!

t's viewed that way by gamers. The 'general population' is well aware of the fact that hobbies can be expensive. Go walk into a fishing tackle shop and check out the prices of lures some time.

It has absolutly nothing to do with the gamer vs casual thing .

am not sure what is your grasp on human psychology , but women view all types of spending that do not rise status or are not linked to making women life easier as at best not needed . And that is half the population . Then you have to count stuff like for example . cultural stuff , grown man dont play with toys for example . Economy based stuff ,when a half a decant army costs almost twice what the avarge income of a grown up is .
Religious stuff , chaos "gods" ??? etc . Hobbies the type of hobby modeling , are "accepted" in the west and even there it is seen as a mild form of being crazy , one step away from hoarding etc. Ah in the west large parts of the population ignore or dont accept wargaming as a viable hobby , not because of the stuff I listed before , but because wargaming is not efficient . Plastic models look cheap . No matter what most people think about GW or non GW models they look like toys . they look goofy ,just take a look at the new chaos chaplain . A toys make you like a child and not a grown up . There is nothing bad in that by the way . The problem is that when for outsiders a grown man is doing stuff that children do , this creates a disonans and is not accepted . Even in western sociaties.

Hmm. Perhaps I'm so far removed from reality that I don't really encounter anyone who thinks this. The guy that sits next to me spends all his disposable income enterprise level computer and network equipment he doesn't actually need so that he can 'stay sharp'. A lady I work with buys crazy expensive ingredients to cook gourmet quality food at home. Still another guy spends most of his money on parts to build his own musical accessories (guitar pedals and the like). I'm surrounded by people who create

you should never draw conclusions about what is avarge for any sociaty including your own on stuff that is in your nearest enviroment . Plus one should not forget that unless forced , people tend to end up in groups that mirror their abilities/incomes/likes/dislikes.

I'm not certain what exactly you mean by this.

you have a very dichotomic sociaty . on one hand you have the do what you want , you can be what you want thing . But then one checks the actual statistics on actual income , actual chance to finish a good/very good school without being a sportsman , medi care and the data doesnt add up. When you add the knowladge about the human psych and how it works on picking partners/friends/work/school etc it becomes even more strange.
I rather like a sociaty when it is clear that we have it easier , while the dudes under us do not . That there are better and worse people just by birth . then trying to live a lie , and finding out anew every generation that most of the wealth is/was/will always be controled by 10% or less of the population. being sure of how things are generates less stress , even if the things are bad.

Makumba wrote:
but women view all types of spending that do not rise status or are not linked to making women life easier as at best not needed . And that is half the population

Could you stereotype any more?

Then you have to count stuff like for example . cultural stuff , grown man dont play with toys for example . Economy based stuff ,when a half a decant army costs almost twice what the avarge income of a grown up is .

You mean like all the other grown men playing with various expensive toys that cost WAY more than a 40k army?

not because of the stuff I listed before , but because wargaming is not efficient . Plastic models look cheap . No matter what most people think about GW or non GW models they look like toys . they look goofy ,just take a look at the new chaos chaplain . A toys make you like a child and not a grown up . There is nothing bad in that by the way . The problem is that when for outsiders a grown man is doing stuff that children do , this creates a disonans and is not accepted . Even in western sociaties.

Most people have absolutely no clue what a GW model looks like. If you tell them "I play wargames on sundays, it's like chess but with dice and you build your own models" that's all they're going to know about it.

When my friend came over and saw my painted Menoth models she got curious. I told her what was going on and she became interested. It ended with me giving her the Khador force from the starter set and now I have a regular painting buddy. A girl no less

Normally I clean models and paints off my desk when people are coming over. Not because I'm ashamed, but because I don't want to get my teeth kicked in. But she just showed up without warning, and it turned out brilliantly.

So it is a dilemma...

 insaniak wrote:
It's viewed that way by gamers. The 'general population' is well aware of the fact that hobbies can be expensive. Go walk into a fishing tackle shop and check out the prices of lures some time.

Hobbies speak to people differently. Let's step outside gaming first in an example: Some people if they see a man with a dozen motorcylces will usually think,"Wow he must like motorcycles." Meanwhile they see someone who has a dozen guns and enjoys the shooting sports and think, "There must be something wrong with him to *need* a dozen guns. He must be afraid, weird or wanting to hurt people." In this situation it is just as likely that the shooter is a perfect and well adjusted person who doesn't have any emotional issues and just enjoys his hobby, while the guy with the motorcycles is trying desperately to convince himself and those around him that he is much cooler and younger than he believes himself to be.

People's preconceived notions impact their opinions every day. In many corners there are people who see people spending money on or playing wargames and their immediate thought is "Immature, childish, needs to grow up." Yet at the same time they think it is cool when the insecure guy in accounting buys himself a $60k status car to make up for his perceived shortcomings in his manhood as it were. So it all depends on who is looking and who's opinion you care about.

Yes people in general are aware that hobbies can be expensive, but that doesn't mean they give the same creedence and acceptance to every hobby either. Even those of us who sign over our organs to GW on a regular basis know people who have hobbies that in the back of our heads we think "Who in their right mind would spend money on that stuff?" It is just the nature of humanity. The key is not worrying about other people's issues about your hobbies and just getting on with enjoying yourself.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sir Bushwookie wrote:
What if you're not ashamed of it.
I wasn't but I didn't mention it. The moment someone found out I said "yes, it's a hobby it happens to be enjoyable"
The next day I was ridiculed by the entire school just because I had a hobby that didn't involve drugs or smoking.

Now I refuse to mention it because I'm incredibly paranoid.

What if that happens?

Sorry if I came off rude.

Sir Bushwookie

Sure sounds like you are ashamed of it now. What I said still applies. Just because people are ridiculing you over your hobby doesn't mean you have to care that they are doing so. Of course in school, where the biggest desire is the fit in, sticking out can sometimes make you feel terrible. Being true to yourself is no less important now than any other time in your life. Those who are ridiculing you are doing so because they don't have the strength or capability to be themselves in such an environment. Sadly such comfort with self comes much later in life for most people. I used to be really paranoid about what people thought about me in Junior High. By high school I knew who I was and just didn't care anymore what anyone else thought. Made high school a much more enjoyable experience.

If the worst someone can say about you is that you are a gamer in some negative fashion, that is actually a pretty good place to be in life in my book.

Skriker

the_scotsman wrote:
Our hobby, however, still seems to rank somewhere between naked dance parties with members of the same gender and Khorne worship.

First of all, as I expect this topic to get a lot of negative reactions - I think the OP makes a good point. It's just true & we should talk about it.

But I think for a good discussion we have to seperate between two issues:
1. What is intrinsicly bad looking about the hobby? Thus (ignoring the painting for a sec) playing large scale board games with plastic models from a fantasy/science fiction universe.

2. What is bad looking about the 'total package', which includes the 'nerd' way of being and behaving, the gameshop envrionment and all it's stereotypes, the time and money spend on it, etc.

-------------------------
1. I think playing boardgames in itself should be seen as respectable, and if not it's simply the wrong crown who judges and just not the kind o people you want to be friends with. Nobody should look down on...say.. risk. And this game is better than that, less abstact also. But then another layer is the little plastic models, which remind of toys. I can see how girls do not like it when you spend a lot o time investing in an object, but that goes for any object, including cars, footballs, shoes (of course they do it themselves but that's cultural gender division for you). The thing is mini's have less status than cars. On the other hand... there is skill to the painting of it. Yet in general I think what hurts most is looking like you are 'into' it, thus spending a lot of time, etc. In that regard it is no different than MMO's.

While I don't have any direct solution (I stress it being a casual hobby, that's its something of one eve a week, and...well I expect them to not judge that. ). Another idea is to let those people get involved, and try it themselves, it might change their judgement. Especially if they 'catch' you in the store. Also getting one other guy in your social group involved will prolly break the stigma with the rest, as it becomes something 'those guys like to do now & then, but it must be ok as we know both of them'.

2. This is a bigger problem. My observation is that many people simply are very nerdy in bad ways. By that I mean smelly, overly 'into' it (As in not knowing when to stop talking about it), being rude/sexist to woman (this looks bad yo), or just very pale looking. Now I do not [I typed 'do not' motherf*cker who's gonna quote me] judge sheltered people for finding a retreat in this hobby. That's great & you should have the freedom to do so & I'll join you in it. But I think there is just a bit of... PR management work to do for us as a whole.

Starting with giving up this defensive position the OP talks about. I have noticed how a lot o people who appear to 'not care' still enbark in very negative self talk about it: 'it's playing with puppers, w're all nerds, don't think your not one, so what I'm a lowlife, blabla". At the same time denying and affirming every stereotype. Not caring is often a bluff, as they then enbark on rants dissing what I would call... hunks/babes/sport people; which fails because unless u'r very very smalltown that's not the 'other' group. Those people are on the other end of the spectrum & insecure in their own way, it's the middle group you have to convince. Dissin another group doesn't help.

I'd say it's hard to make something you are...obsesivly into look good. But you prolly don't care too much at that point, and if you do..well make the choice to expand into other things. As for as the 'casual' hobby goes, I say spread it's good properties (nothing disrespectfull about boardgames & model-building right?) & try to be a bit tactical in how you represent yourself to the outside world.

So, I read the first page and the last page (skipping the argument) and here's my tuppence:

In school, people will rip on you for anything if you let them. Most of what you need is confidence, but violence helps too, sadly. I got so much less hassle than most people throughout school thanks to being so bored with first year of high-school that I joined in with the 'who's toughest' tournament amongst the first year guys, kicked a guy in the nuts about 5 times, got my nose broken by someone's big brother, never got bullied or had a fight again for the rest of school. Sad but true.

however, being a brit, post-school when people mock me for the hobby, it's usually because they know something about it... and talk to me about it... and within about 20 minutes my female friends hate me, because their 'cool' new boyfriend has a raging boner for boltguns for the first time in ten years.

Getting back to the confidence point, an old housemate of mine was so confident in how cool nerdy gak is, he used to chat up girls by talking about comic books. They found his sense of humour, charm, and confidence attractive - the subject matter didn't mean jack.

And me personally? I just make sure it's not the only thing people know about me, and I say it's like crack, once you're hooked you can't stop because it's too awesome. I use the Brass Thief from Ravenor Returned to blow people's minds with the awesome of 40k.

And now I live in the Balkans, where pretty much nobody's heard of it anyway. Except one guy - the best-looking, biggest man-whore I know, who in his mid-twenties is heading speedily toward a century of one-night-stands. Who once, when there wasn't any hot girls within earshot, asked me 'have you heard of Warhammer?'...

Makumba wrote:
am not sure what is your grasp on human psychology , but women view all types of spending that do not rise status or are not linked to making women life easier as at best not needed .

The one woman in my life whose opinion matters to me (my wife) actively encourages me to spend money on my hobby. It doesn't make her life 'easier' or 'increase her status'... it makes me happy, and so she views it as a Good Thing.

Makumba wrote:

I'm not certain what exactly you mean by this.

you have a very dichotomic sociaty . on one hand you have the do what you want , you can be what you want thing . But then one checks the actual statistics on actual income , actual chance to finish a good/very good school without being a sportsman , medi care and the data doesnt add up. When you add the knowladge about the human psych and how it works on picking partners/friends/work/school etc it becomes even more strange.

Well, that's the thing. I mean, you CAN do anything you want here. I could invent the next iToy and become a billionaire. I probably won't (especially at the rate patent/copyright regulation is going) but I could. The potential exists. There is a long trend of millionaires here that were college dropouts. Not to say every one does it.

I rather like a sociaty when it is clear that we have it easier , while the dudes under us do not . That there are better and worse people just by birth . then trying to live a lie , and finding out anew every generation that most of the wealth is/was/will always be controled by 10% or less of the population. being sure of how things are generates less stress , even if the things are bad.

I believe you're speaking of what one might call a 'caste system'. I guess that's great for knowing your place, and it certainly depicts the differences between the two of our cultures, but the fundamental difference that you highlight above stops being an issue for us the moment we stop worrying about it also. People only live lies because they choose to. It's commonly referred to as the 'rat race' or 'keeping up with the Joneses". Not everyone here subscribes to that though. I'm sure there are lots of people who do, and lots of women who are as you believe they are with your "rising status" comment, but for the most part, the vast majority of people just try to get by.

Hell, the most aberrant part of our hobby is probably the fact that we can afford it. There's a LOT of people in the country that live paycheck to paycheck with no expensive and frivolous hobbies to show for it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've never met a single adult here that resembles anything claiming to be American that you have seen on the television.

Here's what I say.

"Oh, this is a kind of stupid game called Warhammer. Basically, I build little guys, paint them and then make them kill eachother. Yeah, I'll admit its kind of dumb, buts it's still fun to play."

Makumba wrote:
[
I rather like a sociaty when it is clear that we have it easier , while the dudes under us do not . That there are better and worse people just by birth . then trying to live a lie , and finding out anew every generation that most of the wealth is/was/will always be controled by 10% or less of the population. being sure of how things are generates less stress , even if the things are bad.

मेरे दोस्त, मुझे डर है कि अगर आप को पता चला है कि एक समाज की तरह है कि वास्तविक जीवन में अस्तित्व में है, और एक हद तक है कि सामाजिक मानसिकता अभी भी कुछ क्षेत्रों में मौजूद है, तो आप एक बहुत कम वहाँ रहने के बारे में उत्साहित होगा हूँ.

40K is a nerd hobby and if you play it you're a nerd. Just accept it and don't assume it has a negative connotation. There's nothing wrong with being a nerd.

Not giving a crap what other people thing is the single most freeing and liberating thing in any aspect of life, hobbying or otherwise. The only person who should judge you is you.

Phazael wrote:Not giving a crap what other people thing is the single most freeing and liberating thing in any aspect of life, hobbying or otherwise. The only person who should judge you is you.

For some reason that quote is a lot harder to take seriously when you imagine it coming from Hitler's mouth.

Most people at my college are impressed by the paintjobs on my models. Every single person that has walked into my dorm, including frat guys, a few hot girls among others, have all been genuinely impressed on the skill it took to paint them. Even a cop who was there since my roommate was suspected to have weed on him, the first thing the cop said to me was a compliment of my Blood Ravens. Then he asked me to leave while they searched the room, but still.

I can't hide my hobby (it'd be tough since I'm in a dorm room) so I just leave my projects on my desk. I don't talk about it much, but happily field questions about it.

I've not really got a problem with prejudice. Most people who aren't in the hobby acknowledge that it's a hobby, not a cult. I don't think I've met anyone who says that it's a bad thing, thinking about it...

How do I deal with the prejudice?

I ignore it.

In all honesty, I've got way too many models to paint up to bother worrying about it.

I geuss I'm lucky, random people don't guess that I play 40k, and my family supported my hobby because it got me creating things. (It's also very very cold where I live, so sitting at a table painting next to a fire listening to tunes or a book is somewhat romantic )

I'm so into 40k that I flakkin' wrote to the BL to get some books published - people are actually impressed when I tell them that lol. They'd be a whole lot more impressed if the BL actually took interest in what I was doing - and I'd be either more confident spreading the love of 40k, or just turn into a egotistical megalomaniac that stalks the boards of the censor-less internet crushing the hopes and dreams of all other aspiring authors and would be creationists. Possibly a good thing that I got the muzzle instead.

never had a problem playing 40k in public so to speak but have had quite a bit of greaf playing d@d in public. I was part of a party that played in the function room of a pub for ages but we had to move so started playing in pubs around london and trying to play d@d in a weatherspoons at 9pm is not a good idea if you want to leave with a sence of dignity in tact even though our party had two women in it and three of us are married the amount of bile and such given to us was silly.

 GimbleMuggernaught wrote:

evilsponge wrote:
Considering this hobby generally attracts people with bad hygine and poor social skills I shrug my shoulders and say "Yeah its pretty dorky" and keep playing (with my nose covered)

This must depend on where you play, because I've only had this experience a couple of times. Most of the people that play at the FLGS are pretty normal dudes, with decent hygiene. Their social skills also seem relatively normal (as far as "normal" goes that is), though the subject matter that they're discussing is obviously fairly nerdy.

Most of the stores I've played in are usually inhabited by awkward teenagers who don't understand they need to shower every day because they haven't discovered some of the more unpleasant side effects of puberty yet.

I never thought I would end up writing a personal life story post on dakka. So, this is for every lonely nerd who struggles with the fact that the skeletons in his closet are 8 foot tall and wear power armor. I honestly think a lot of gamers are very smart people, who are very insecure and cope with it by finding a small nerdy clique that has equivalent social issues. And I believe this is true, because its what me and most of my gamer friends lived for a long time, and a lot of them, sadly, still do.

This is something I struggled with a lot when I younger. Most all of my friends were directly related to gaming, and I was very nerdy. I literally had to learn social skills from the ground up, and devoted all my intellect for the better part of a year at learning how to be well mannered. Naturally my hobby was something I was very insecure about when I was in high school, and I handled that by broadcasting it loudly. This got very negative feedback, and in hindsight I can completely understand why. I should note, dont feel bad about teenagers judging you for this. Between the ages of 13 and 17 or so, almost everyone is a dill weed. Its just how the world works. Anyways, then came college, and I decided I needed to expand my social circle, and thus joined a fraternity. I think its safe to say that most of my friends now are not nerdy, and quite a few come from the top of the college social life food chain. If you believe that the gamer social life can be judgemental, and it is, you should hang out with sorority girls. Some of these women are absolutely nuts. Of course, some of them are amazing, and I have met more hardworking intelligent college students in greek life than outside of it.

I think that Trex makes a good point, and I will address this as he described.


1. What is intrinsicly bad looking about the hobby? Thus (ignoring the painting for a sec) playing large scale board games with plastic models from a fantasy/science fiction universe.

Absolutely nothing is wrong with this.

2. What is bad looking about the 'total package', which includes the 'nerd' way of being and behaving, the gameshop envrionment and all it's stereotypes, the time and money spend on it, etc.

This is where you get almost all the bad stereotypes from. The general stereotype about gamers is that they are obnoxious, socially awkward, and generally possess poor hygiene. While this is not true for a majority, the numbers it is relevant to are still much higher than it is for the general population. And for the love of god, dont judge people for not gaming. Often times I hear 'well, at least I am not going out and getting drunk with those losers.' 'Least I dont sit on my ass and watch sports games for a few hours straight.' 'What I do is a much smarter more refined hobby.' Yeah, ok, I have had more intellectual conversation at bars than at the game store, maybe you just arent drinking or watching sports with the right people. Being judgemental can go both ways.

So, how to handle people finding out about your dirty gaming secret? It has absolutely nothing to do with gaming itself, and everything to do with who you are as a person.

Present yourself well. Be an alpha male and have good social skills. When you first meet someone, treat that social interaction like a job interview. I am trying to think of a way to put this without sounding like a judgemental prick. If you are that stereotypical obese, smelly, awkward guy who plays games, people will just lump that in with 'more weird gak that guy does'. If you carry yourself well, if you are confident, and can play personal quirks off, 90% of the 'normal' population cant give 2 gaks. The other 10% dont like you anyways, and haters gonna hate. Have lots of friends who arent gamers, because a well rounded social life is something worth pursuing.

Have other hobbies, do things other than gaming. It sets off a huge amount of warning lights in people if all you do is play games. If you work out, if you have a regular social life, if you work, etc etc, than its no big deal. Nobody cares that you have a nerdy hobby, but if thats your life, then its something that people will judge you for. Just be an all around excellent person. Dont judge other people for not having your hobbies. Often times nerds respond to people not sharing their interests in a negative fashion.

I guess the best way to put this is that there are 2 kinds of nerds. Neckbeards, and normal people with nerdy tendencies. Be the latter option here. I have shown up to tournaments off 3 hours and sleep and hungover due to too much partying the night before. Theres nothing wrong with this at all. I could care less if you spent your Friday night watching anime movies, and I think most people feel the same way.

Be an all around well rounded and accepting person. Treat yourself and others well, but dont take yourself too seriously. This is a lesson that I only learned recently, and wish I had applied sooner.

Here is, I guess, an anecdote relating to this subject. The fabled 'girl finding out' about miniatures moment. I was hanging out with a girl, and was driving her around when the subject of gaming came up. She mentioned her brother played magic the gathering, and I tried to play it off. "oh, isnt that like pokemon, I think I have heard of it before." Hour or so later, she asked me to put something in the trunk of my car for her. I open it up, and oops, theres 4000 points of 40k models sitting right there. I ended up explaining this by saying that it was something I did since I was 12. I enjoyed the intellectual challenge of playing, as well as having a hobby that was largely passive and doesnt have a risk of getting me in trouble, and explained the 'nerds vs neckbeards' thing. It also helps to be good at what you do. I was making enough money off tournament winnings that I basically paid nothing for entry fee, gas, and food to go play. When you can say you got $500 of models for a total $90 investment, it looks good. It was never an issue. But, I think, if I had shown up that night wearing an ork t shirt and talking about my awesome grey knights, she probably wouldnt have called me back.

If you have that much insecurity about it that you are terrified of people finding out, there is probably a real problem there. And its not with the other people, its with you. You might play too much, or just be a little too awkward in general, and your insecurity manifests itself by worrying about people finding out about the one thing you are comfortable with. And this point you should expand your horizons. Work out, join some kind of social group or club that has no base in nerd culture, and improve who you are overall.

You also have to hit a point where you are comfortable with yourself, and know that you are awesome. Right now I am sitting on my balcony in China, 12,000 miles from home. I am wearing a brooks brothers sweater, khaki pants, and smoking a cigar. If anyone has an issue with me playing with plastic man dollies, they can feth right off, because I am awesome.

And thats my 2 cents.

We all sound like we are in agreement here, honestly man you sound young and impressionable still; this isn't a bad thing it's good it means you are still not forced to comply with social standards and are your own individual. You must understand though that all crafts, hobbies and activities are subjected to the simple fracture causing actions of ignorance and ridicule.

For example a coal miner isn't "good enough" to marry my daughter

A professor of IT will say football or sports is beneath him.

Someone who wants to do negative activities like smoke weed or make out at all points in time might see your activities as dumb or downright questionable.

Here is the thing though, all crafts, all enjoyment even certain loves are not meant to be universal. We're all different and its only mutual activities or reactions to stimuli that forge a narrative between people to have similarities. Thus cultures like "nerds" are born ect. This is a invention of people who don't want to take the time to understand people on a personal level. it helps them try to understand you at a glance which ... honestly isn't a bad thing sometimes. I would rather people who don't like me just make a judgement call and move out out of my life. Now If they make fun of me for something they'll quickly learn I don't stand for it at this age I am at, but if you are as young as I'm thinking just be dismissive of that person. Do you know how many stupid things pour of the mouths of teens on a daily basis?

if you like the idea of 40k please don't let the herd influence your decision. You will learn it isn't peer pressure that makes you who you are it's your own choices and to provide reasons for them. I would say you are best informed to not be violent toward others but just to enjoy your game and if you still have anger learn to find an outlit like exercise or martial arts it helps vent your anger immensely.

either way i hope you choose to stick with this and realize this is just a game it doesn't make you different for playing it and anyone too dense to grasp that concept is probably not a indepth thinker enough to understand the rest of you at all. Enjoy and happy trails.

My typical response to twits that make a comment is 'Yeah, I'm also a firefighter, and your wife, mother and daughter would like to sleep with me'. For the less aggressive or condescending folks, I just say chess doesn't have enough guns for me.

If you are happy in yourself, and enjoy your life, it really doesn't matter a toss what random strangers think.

I just talk enthusiastically about my hobby. Even at work I'll go to lunch announcing to everyone that I'm off to buy some toy soldiers, and leave happy on a Friday saying how I'm happy it's game club night.

If someone is being condesending or making insulting comments I show them my hobby. Pictures on my phone, my flickr page, and talk incessantly about it. Oh, and I can, I'll go off on a tangent too and talk about 1970's sci-fi like Blakes 7 or Space 1999. The bully wants to win, but I'm not walking away, I make them the one that walks away. Geek win

 kronk wrote:
Downplay it.

Don't wear WAAAAGH t-shirts to church.

Don't wear WS4 tshirts on a first date.

People that accept you don't give a crap about your "silly" hobbies.

People that do are people you shouldn't accept.

Alternatively, recognise that there's no such thing as a "silly" hobby, unless all hobbies are "silly", and that what other people think about your particular passtime matters about as much as a dry fart in the desert.

As for t-shirts, wear what you like and hang anyone who objects; if some vacant jock can wander about in a "Space Invaders" branded t-shirt because some cretinous celebutard wore one or it has a certain label inside the collar, you can wear a WAAAAAGH t-shirt if you bleeding well feel like it

And never, NEVER downplay it, that simply reinforces the idea that it's an acceptable topic for ridicule - if you're really enthusiastic about it, then be enthusiastic, nobody gets pissy when one of their friends burbles on obsessively about absolutely irrelevant sporting factoids, or whatever their particular interest is, so sod 'em.

yes, its a fun hobby, why hide it!
if people think its nerdy, its most of the time because they have seen some stereotype nerd play the game.

most people dont expect i play this game, and when they see some miniatures, their reaction is something like ''ah thats where a lot of your spare time goes''

 Eidolon wrote:
Present yourself well. Be an alpha male and have good social skills. When you first meet someone, treat that social interaction like a job interview. I am trying to think of a way to put this without sounding like a judgemental prick. If you are that stereotypical obese, smelly, awkward guy who plays games, people will just lump that in with 'more weird gak that guy does'. If you carry yourself well, if you are confident, and can play personal quirks off, 90% of the 'normal' population cant give 2 gaks. The other 10% dont like you anyways, and haters gonna hate. Have lots of friends who arent gamers, because a well rounded social life is something worth pursuing.

First, what do you mean by alpha male really? If that's the know-it-all boss type spewing one-liners, that's actualy something I try hard not to be despite strong tendencies. Sure the majority of women like it but doing things because it is what majority of women want/ desire/ expect is more a puberty thing than 40k imo and a sign of not only low or clouded intelect but also possibly soon to be broken moral compass.

Second, I just might have found the first reason to say I'm a nerd (40k, pc games, rpgs, ccgs are not, those are just a good idea to spend time and the culture might switch them to cool any time) that I might prefer talking to an stereotypical obese, awkward guy who plays games than anyone who treats the first talk (I'm assuming not at the proffesional level) with me like a job interview. Either I'm a nerd then or you transmutated your rather standard nerd into some kind of ultimate amway nerd, the type possible only in the country of the free and the brave I guess. Auto presentation and normality geek that's a new one really.

btw I'm not giving much weight into "nerd" term, I'm discussing it at the stereotyping level but after I heard there are "footbal geeks" as well I'm not sure how anyone can treat it serious anymore. One is more psychical gifted or oriented, the other is more intelectual and people have different levels of sensibility, that's it, I meet "nerdy" people in environments consider perfectly normal who are well respected there, comes from a fact that they were at the right place and time with their predispositions. As for ADD, bipolar, OCD, Aspergers etc those people obviosly seek something to keep their mind busy and that might be anything, tabletop games, drugs, TV or golf.

 Eidolon wrote:
Have other hobbies, do things other than gaming. It sets off a huge amount of warning lights in people if all you do is play games. If you work out, if you have a regular social life, if you work, etc etc, than its no big deal. Nobody cares that you have a nerdy hobby, but if thats your life, then its something that people will judge you for. Just be an all around excellent person. Dont judge other people for not having your hobbies. Often times nerds respond to people not sharing their interests in a negative fashion.

That instantly reminds me of a scene in Iron Man 2 where the main guy, already a playboy and millionare builds a quick particle accelerator at his place and you can observe his elaborate arm muscles in the process. I almost choked of laughter really.

Serious now, that's rare and hard and for most of general population you talk about unachievable, so reaching that high you might end up negativly judged, vilified etc even more than a helpless nerd. Just a hint at how humanity works.

 Eidolon wrote:
I guess the best way to put this is that there are 2 kinds of nerds. Neckbeards, and normal people with nerdy tendencies. Be the latter option here. I have shown up to tournaments off 3 hours and sleep and hungover due to too much partying the night before. Theres nothing wrong with this at all. I could care less if you spent your Friday night watching anime movies, and I think most people feel the same way.

My friend who fits every nerdy stereotype in the world including anime shows that 15 people total have ever seen loves to party, drink etc, btw If going to tournament is nerdy, isn't going there after 3 hours of sleep and hangovered even nerdier? I mean normal guy would just stay home and sleep or call his girlfriend to help survive, as would probably even a moderate nerd do.

 Eidolon wrote:
Here is, I guess, an anecdote relating to this subject. The fabled 'girl finding out' about miniatures moment. I was hanging out with a girl, and was driving her around when the subject of gaming came up. She mentioned her brother played magic the gathering, and I tried to play it off. "oh, isnt that like pokemon, I think I have heard of it before." Hour or so later, she asked me to put something in the trunk of my car for her. I open it up, and oops, theres 4000 points of 40k models sitting right there. I ended up explaining this by saying that it was something I did since I was 12. I enjoyed the intellectual challenge of playing, as well as having a hobby that was largely passive and doesnt have a risk of getting me in trouble, and explained the 'nerds vs neckbeards' thing. It also helps to be good at what you do. I was making enough money off tournament winnings that I basically paid nothing for entry fee, gas, and food to go play. When you can say you got $500 of models for a total $90 investment, it looks good. It was never an issue. But, I think, if I had shown up that night wearing an ork t shirt and talking about my awesome grey knights, she probably wouldnt have called me back.

What's wrong with supposed ork tshirt, as auto irony or a big "don't like it, f**k off" it would be imo better than straight lies that you don't know what mtg is, finding elaborate excuses for playing 40k or pointing the other players as "they're pathetic, not me". If you speak to a standard bum he has always an example of and embarrasing story about someone who is in currently a worse alcoholic than him btw.

 Eidolon wrote:
You also have to hit a point where you are comfortable with yourself, and know that you are awesome. Right now I am sitting on my balcony in China, 12,000 miles from home. I am wearing a brooks brothers sweater, khaki pants, and smoking a cigar. If anyone has an issue with me playing with plastic man dollies, they can feth right off, because I am awesome.

And thats my 2 cents.

I know only one person smoking a cigar and he is actualy the universaly hated and I don't mean nerds I mean general population. He thinks he's awesome for sure, takes one look at him to know. Not that you are like that, I don't know, just saying.

Fortunately, being just 5'4", quite underweight, bleached hair, and dressing in mostly three piece suits or chinos and tweed, I tend to get away with the eccentric young man who talks too fast, works too hard and has many strange hobbies that can be over looked, 40k being one of them.
A friend of mine, who is covered in tattoos, and is very stereotypically 'metal' just passes it off as "it's a 'goff' thing"

Whoever said show them page 5 has a point.

Also, if people are making fun of you for your hobby, they tend to be one of two groups:

1. Friends who are just giving you crap

2. holes who don't deserve your attention


And to the person who said that their school made fun of them for not having a hobby involving drugs/smoking, they sound like donkey-caves-then again, you're not into drugs, so chances are you won't be ing a dealer to pay for your hobby