So Ihave not read a ton of fluff about different factions just blood angels for the most part seeing as thats the army I play. But, anyway here is my question: What do space marine do in thier off time. I know in the codex is says that the blood angels pretty much sleep and recover untill next needed somewhere. But do they like have a life outside of constant war? Or are they just kept up like animal untill needed?
I don't know why i thought of this but i was just wondering like do they have hobbies OR something outside of battle?
tltr: Do space marines do anything outside of fighting?
Most of their "peacetime" is probably while they're in transit from one warzone to another or doing guard duty on their Chapter Homeworld, but even then they only have about 15 minutes of free time a day.
One of the older codexes had a breakdown of a marine's day. I think they may have had a luxurious half hour or so of personal time that wasn't spent training, weapon maintenance/etc.
I think most of them spent that doing more training, or in meditation. Remember, Space Marines are warrior monks. (for the most part)
Man sounds like a crappy life. Your a super human fighting machine bad*ss. Not even enough time to get a little tail from an admiring female. Come on emporer let your men have some fun.
Omfgorzzz wrote: Man sounds like a crappy life. Your a super human fighting machine bad*ss. Not even enough time to get a little tail from an admiring female. Come on emporer let your men have some fun.
Most astartes would not appriciate such offerings of "tail". Seing how many Chapters make sure their marines are incapebal of sproting the hard equipment for tailgating. And fun? That is when you get Noise Marines
Depends on the chapter - a lot of it is praying, training. Some roles like techmarine and apothecary have other duties - techmarines might work on making artificer armor or master crafted weapons whereas apothecaries might research things.
Yeah I just wonder how they live so long with constantly always moving/training/other physical things all day long and only sleeping four hours a day. You would think that eventually it would break them down or hender thier bodies after a long long time of doing this. (Maybe Im just comparing the human body to the space marine body to closely).
Omfgorzzz wrote: Yeah I just wonder how they live so long with constantly always moving/training/other physical things all day long and only sleeping four hours a day. You would think that eventually it would break them down or hender thier bodies after a long long time of doing this. (Maybe Im just comparing the human body to the space marine body to closely).
Yeah you are comparing them too closely. Space marines were bred to be able to function under said conditions, in fact it's possibly the most efficient way that they can operate. Also don;t forget that they can go without proper sleep for many days at a time due to one of their implants (can't ever remember their names). Blood Angels tend to spend it painting/other pursuits of artistic slant, it's all part of their search for perfection in an existence that they know is otherwise flawed.
It's a different kind of life, plain and simple. Being warrior monks, their one and only purpose in life is to fight the Emperor's wars.
Even the 15 minutes of spare time that the Codex Astartes recommends to be used "contemplating the glory of duty in silent meditation" is seen as an "unbecoming luxury" by a number of Space Marine Chapters, and thus abolished.
The Space Wolves are pretty much the only exception from the above. Apparently someone felt that the standard Space Marine lifestyle is too boring, and beer and parties are cool.
As far as the effect on the body is concerned, they have ready access to the chemicals necessary to keep their organs running in balance, and with sufficient training and indoctrination the mind can be conditioned to adapt. Some real world militaries have or still do employ practices to train the efficiency of its troops under similarly stressed conditions - the Space Marines of 40k just dial that up to 11 to make it an everyday occasion.
03:50: Morning Call to Prayer: Initiates awaken their respective Neophytes from their comfortable slumber on bare stone floors. This often involves buckets of ice water, vox-casters playing hymns with the volume control knob broken off, or a power armor shod foot up the ass depending on the Initiate in question. Complaints that this awakening occurred ten minutes prior to scheduled reveille are met with readmistration of the waking aid.
04:00: Morning Prayer: Neophytes are berated for their perceived failings by their responsible Initiates, who are in turn berated by their superiors, up to the Marshal who berates the entire Fleet then swears a solemn vow to an icon of the Emperor that they will do better and prove themselves worthy by stabbing heretics in the throat with their swords. Tactics may also be discussed and orders of battle issued, assuming they involve rushing headlong at the enemy.
05:00: Morning Firing Rites: The Initiates school their apprentices on the art of shooting xenos in the face while simultaneously swinging a chainsword. This shooting preferably occurs while rushing across the active firing range in order to close with the target and hit it with the bolt pistol if possible.
07:00: Battle Practice: Initiates inform their neophytes that if they are done being cowardly whelps they may now avail themselves of a sword with which to stab gak.
12:00: Midday Prayer: Neophytes are told how poorly they did during the morning exercises, any sense of pride or joy is rooted out. The Marshal leads the Fleet in prayer and promises the Emperor they will kill more things even more righteously this afternoon.
13:00: Midday Meal: The chapter serfs provide cold cuts for the Brothers' enjoyment. Lunchmeat is usually collected by the serfs following each battle and stored in the ships' freezers. Naturally, Neophytes do not get something to eat yet as the Initiates insult them for even assuming they get to eat. The Neophytes soon learn that the Emperor has a sense of humor when the Initiates are informed that only Sword Brethren on up are allowed to eat.
13:15: Tactical Indoctrination: Locations of the vital organs and blood vessels of xenos species that may be encountered on the current Crusade are reviewed, occasionally an Initiate will cuff his Neophyte on the back of the head and reiterate "Yes that, you stab that slow." Other tactics may also be discussed as long as they involve inserting blades into things.
14:00: Battle Practice: Initiates attempt to kill their Neophyte with a powersword. If the Neophyte is not dead in four hours he passes muster.
18:00: Evening Firing Rites: Neophytes are instructed in how to operate heavy and specialty weaponry dropped by their responsible Initiate when he abandons it so that he may swing his sword with both hands to better kill gak or is eaten by a monstrous creature which he bravely(read:stupidly) tried to face hit in CQC.
20:00: Evening Prayer: After sort session of critique and berating, the Emperors' Champion leads a sermon about how awesome the Emprah is and how much He wants them to flay the current heretics/muties/xenos they are fighting with power weapons.
21:00: Evening Meal: A feast is served by the chapter serfs. Alcohol and anything that has a pleasant taste will not be consumed as the Emperor looks down on those that enjoy life. No hamburger, no cheeseburgers, no french fries, no milkshakes, no potato chips; you will drink water distilled from the Fleet's waste/reactor AND LIKE IT!
21:30: Night-fighting/zero-gravity Exercises: Initiates instruct their charges on stabbing things by the glow of a powersword and how to fight in a zero-gravity environment without thrusters (stab foe, use corpse as a spring board to assault another foe, repeat).
23:15: Sharpen your gak you incompetent, the Emperor reserves great disdain for those that kill heretics with dull blades.
23:45: Free time: The Initiate is free to challenge his Neophyte to a short duel. Wounds heal better during sleep anyway.
Note that this constitutes a day off for a Black Templar. A working day will involve 23 hours of rushing monstrous creatures with melee weapons. Neophytes are expected to pull bullet sponge duty so the Initiate is not distracted by little things like enemy gunfire.
DAILY RITUALS OF THE DARK ANGELS
04:00-Morning Prayer: The Dark Angels are roused from their cells to begin prayer at the leadership of the Interrogator-Chaplain. Prayer is extra long than in most other Chapters due to the existence of the Fallen THE DARK ANGELS BEING SO LOYAL THAT THEY WANT TO SHOW THEIR DEVOTION TO THE EMPEROR AND THE LION.
06:00-Morning Firing Rites: The Dark Angels take to the ranges to begin firing practice.
0 07:00-Battle Practice: The Dark Angels descend to the Battle Cages to practice in close-combat. Members of the Ravenwing will practice with their bikes and land speeders, while members of the Deathwing will practice counter-Fallen scenarios ENGAGEMENTS WITH THE ENEMIES OF THE EMPEROR, WHICH MOST CERTAINLY DO NO INCLUDE ANY OF THE SONS OF LION EL'JONSON.
12:00-Midday Meal: A light meal is prepared by the Chapter Serfs.
12:30-Tactical Indoctrination: The Dark Angels will engage in tactical briefings on opponents they will be facing in the future. Members of the Inner Circle will determine targets such as traitors from the First Legion THE NINE TRAITOR LEGIONS WHICH REBELLED AGAINST THE EMPEROR, BECAUSE THERE ARE ONLY NINE TRAITOR LEGIONS.
At this point a battle-brother may visit the Apothecary, while Interrogator-Chaplains will interrogate Fallen Angels they have been assigned to HERETICS WHO ARE AIDING THE EMPEROR'S ENEMIES, ALL FROM DIFFERENT LEGIONS AND CHAPTERS. 16:00-Evening Fire Rites: The Dark Angels take to the ranges to begin firing practice.
17:00-Evening Prayer: The Dark Angels assemble for prayer under the Interrogator-Chaplains, who have just finished torturing Fallen Angels SHOWING THEIR UNDENIABLE DEVOTION TO THE EMPEROR WHICH TAKES MANY FORMS.
19:00-Evening Meal: A feast is prepared by the Chapter serfs.
20:00-Maintenance Rituals: The Dark Angels will tend to the maintenance of their wargear, while also washing their robes. Members of the Ravenwing will perform maintenance of their attack bikes and land speeders.
00:00-The Dark Angels will retire to their cells for sleep.
RITUALS OF THE SPACE WOLVES
1300 - Wake Up from Hangover - The Space Wolf awakens from his booze/drug-induced coma and begins the day. Headaches abound. Aspirin is consumed by the ton.
1310 - Morning Piss - The Space Wolf empties the alcohol that has accumulated in his bladder in the Sacred Alcohol Excretion Grounds.
1315 - Morning Piss Ends - The Space Wolves have finally finished urinating.
1330 - Ritual Intake of Alcoholic Beverages - The Space Wolf now cracks open his first cold one of the day. The first of many. Cheerios may be consumed as well.
1345 - Firing Drills - The Space Wolf consumes another litre of alcohol before going out back and shooting empty beer bottles with his bolter. This takes place far away from the Alcohol Excretion Grounds, after that one time Brother Brynjolf accidentally lit his own piss on fire, and had to end up in sickbay until his beard grew back and he was thus fit to be seen in public again.
1400 - Freeze your Gonads - The Space Wolf sheds his armor and most of his clothing to wander around Asaheim for an hour.
1500 - Feeding of the Land Raiders - Space Wolf observes a feast with his brothers in honour of the chapter's revered battle machines. Blood Claws are still wandering around outside naked in the snow.
1530 - Boozing of the Land Raiders - No feast is complete without shittons of liquor. Ale and beer are poured and scrubbed all over the most honoured of the chapter's war machines. Many still have bullet holes, sometimes allowing beer to get into the exhaust ports and make for kickass explosions later. Blood Claws are still wandering around outside naked in the snow.
1600 - Wolf your Wolf - Grey Hunters and older Space Wolves take this time to play with their favourite 4-legged companions. Blood Claws are still wandering around outside naked in the snow.
1630 - Save the Blood Claws - Blood Claws are brought in from the cold. Most are frozen blue or black - and hungry for more.
1700 - Evening feast - Eat. Drink. Start brawls. The usual non-warzone Space Wolf thing.
1800 - Try to wake up Bjorn.
1810 - Give up, try to find something fun on the in the Vox Saga.
1900 - Night gakker break.
2000 - Night firing drills - Much to the Iron Priest's dismay, the Space Wolf has used up the last bolter shell in the Chapter's stock of ammunition.
2100 - Ritual Intake of Narcotics and Purging of Testicles - Bitches and blow.
0500 - Daily Rest - The Space Wolf passes out.
(A few of the more popular chapters have these on 1d4chan)
03:50: Morning Call to Prayer: Initiates awaken their respective Neophytes from their comfortable slumber on bare stone floors. This often involves buckets of ice water, vox-casters playing hymns with the volume control knob broken off, or a power armor shod foot up the ass depending on the Initiate in question. Complaints that this awakening occurred ten minutes prior to scheduled reveille are met with readmistration of the waking aid.
04:00: Morning Prayer: Neophytes are berated for their perceived failings by their responsible Initiates, who are in turn berated by their superiors, up to the Marshal who berates the entire Fleet then swears a solemn vow to an icon of the Emperor that they will do better and prove themselves worthy by stabbing heretics in the throat with their swords. Tactics may also be discussed and orders of battle issued, assuming they involve rushing headlong at the enemy.
05:00: Morning Firing Rites: The Initiates school their apprentices on the art of shooting xenos in the face while simultaneously swinging a chainsword. This shooting preferably occurs while rushing across the active firing range in order to close with the target and hit it with the bolt pistol if possible.
07:00: Battle Practice: Initiates inform their neophytes that if they are done being cowardly whelps they may now avail themselves of a sword with which to stab gak.
12:00: Midday Prayer: Neophytes are told how poorly they did during the morning exercises, any sense of pride or joy is rooted out. The Marshal leads the Fleet in prayer and promises the Emperor they will kill more things even more righteously this afternoon.
13:00: Midday Meal: The chapter serfs provide cold cuts for the Brothers' enjoyment. Lunchmeat is usually collected by the serfs following each battle and stored in the ships' freezers. Naturally, Neophytes do not get something to eat yet as the Initiates insult them for even assuming they get to eat. The Neophytes soon learn that the Emperor has a sense of humor when the Initiates are informed that only Sword Brethren on up are allowed to eat.
13:15: Tactical Indoctrination: Locations of the vital organs and blood vessels of xenos species that may be encountered on the current Crusade are reviewed, occasionally an Initiate will cuff his Neophyte on the back of the head and reiterate "Yes that, you stab that slow." Other tactics may also be discussed as long as they involve inserting blades into things.
14:00: Battle Practice: Initiates attempt to kill their Neophyte with a powersword. If the Neophyte is not dead in four hours he passes muster.
18:00: Evening Firing Rites: Neophytes are instructed in how to operate heavy and specialty weaponry dropped by their responsible Initiate when he abandons it so that he may swing his sword with both hands to better kill gak or is eaten by a monstrous creature which he bravely(read:stupidly) tried to face hit in CQC.
20:00: Evening Prayer: After sort session of critique and berating, the Emperors' Champion leads a sermon about how awesome the Emprah is and how much He wants them to flay the current heretics/muties/xenos they are fighting with power weapons.
21:00: Evening Meal: A feast is served by the chapter serfs. Alcohol and anything that has a pleasant taste will not be consumed as the Emperor looks down on those that enjoy life. No hamburger, no cheeseburgers, no french fries, no milkshakes, no potato chips; you will drink water distilled from the Fleet's waste/reactor AND LIKE IT!
21:30: Night-fighting/zero-gravity Exercises: Initiates instruct their charges on stabbing things by the glow of a powersword and how to fight in a zero-gravity environment without thrusters (stab foe, use corpse as a spring board to assault another foe, repeat).
23:15: Sharpen your gak you incompetent, the Emperor reserves great disdain for those that kill heretics with dull blades.
23:45: Free time: The Initiate is free to challenge his Neophyte to a short duel. Wounds heal better during sleep anyway.
Note that this constitutes a day off for a Black Templar. A working day will involve 23 hours of rushing monstrous creatures with melee weapons. Neophytes are expected to pull bullet sponge duty so the Initiate is not distracted by little things like enemy gunfire.
DAILY RITUALS OF THE DARK ANGELS
04:00-Morning Prayer: The Dark Angels are roused from their cells to begin prayer at the leadership of the Interrogator-Chaplain. Prayer is extra long than in most other Chapters due to the existence of the Fallen THE DARK ANGELS BEING SO LOYAL THAT THEY WANT TO SHOW THEIR DEVOTION TO THE EMPEROR AND THE LION.
06:00-Morning Firing Rites: The Dark Angels take to the ranges to begin firing practice.
0 07:00-Battle Practice: The Dark Angels descend to the Battle Cages to practice in close-combat. Members of the Ravenwing will practice with their bikes and land speeders, while members of the Deathwing will practice counter-Fallen scenarios ENGAGEMENTS WITH THE ENEMIES OF THE EMPEROR, WHICH MOST CERTAINLY DO NO INCLUDE ANY OF THE SONS OF LION EL'JONSON.
12:00-Midday Meal: A light meal is prepared by the Chapter Serfs.
12:30-Tactical Indoctrination: The Dark Angels will engage in tactical briefings on opponents they will be facing in the future. Members of the Inner Circle will determine targets such as traitors from the First Legion THE NINE TRAITOR LEGIONS WHICH REBELLED AGAINST THE EMPEROR, BECAUSE THERE ARE ONLY NINE TRAITOR LEGIONS.
At this point a battle-brother may visit the Apothecary, while Interrogator-Chaplains will interrogate Fallen Angels they have been assigned to HERETICS WHO ARE AIDING THE EMPEROR'S ENEMIES, ALL FROM DIFFERENT LEGIONS AND CHAPTERS. 16:00-Evening Fire Rites: The Dark Angels take to the ranges to begin firing practice.
17:00-Evening Prayer: The Dark Angels assemble for prayer under the Interrogator-Chaplains, who have just finished torturing Fallen Angels SHOWING THEIR UNDENIABLE DEVOTION TO THE EMPEROR WHICH TAKES MANY FORMS.
19:00-Evening Meal: A feast is prepared by the Chapter serfs.
20:00-Maintenance Rituals: The Dark Angels will tend to the maintenance of their wargear, while also washing their robes. Members of the Ravenwing will perform maintenance of their attack bikes and land speeders.
00:00-The Dark Angels will retire to their cells for sleep.
RITUALS OF THE SPACE WOLVES
1300 - Wake Up from Hangover - The Space Wolf awakens from his booze/drug-induced coma and begins the day. Headaches abound. Aspirin is consumed by the ton.
1310 - Morning Piss - The Space Wolf empties the alcohol that has accumulated in his bladder in the Sacred Alcohol Excretion Grounds.
1315 - Morning Piss Ends - The Space Wolves have finally finished urinating.
1330 - Ritual Intake of Alcoholic Beverages - The Space Wolf now cracks open his first cold one of the day. The first of many. Cheerios may be consumed as well.
1345 - Firing Drills - The Space Wolf consumes another litre of alcohol before going out back and shooting empty beer bottles with his bolter. This takes place far away from the Alcohol Excretion Grounds, after that one time Brother Brynjolf accidentally lit his own piss on fire, and had to end up in sickbay until his beard grew back and he was thus fit to be seen in public again.
1400 - Freeze your Gonads - The Space Wolf sheds his armor and most of his clothing to wander around Asaheim for an hour.
1500 - Feeding of the Land Raiders - Space Wolf observes a feast with his brothers in honour of the chapter's revered battle machines. Blood Claws are still wandering around outside naked in the snow.
1530 - Boozing of the Land Raiders - No feast is complete without shittons of liquor. Ale and beer are poured and scrubbed all over the most honoured of the chapter's war machines. Many still have bullet holes, sometimes allowing beer to get into the exhaust ports and make for kickass explosions later. Blood Claws are still wandering around outside naked in the snow.
1600 - Wolf your Wolf - Grey Hunters and older Space Wolves take this time to play with their favourite 4-legged companions. Blood Claws are still wandering around outside naked in the snow.
1630 - Save the Blood Claws - Blood Claws are brought in from the cold. Most are frozen blue or black - and hungry for more.
1700 - Evening feast - Eat. Drink. Start brawls. The usual non-warzone Space Wolf thing.
1800 - Try to wake up Bjorn.
1810 - Give up, try to find something fun on the in the Vox Saga.
1900 - Night gakker break.
2000 - Night firing drills - Much to the Iron Priest's dismay, the Space Wolf has used up the last bolter shell in the Chapter's stock of ammunition.
2100 - Ritual Intake of Narcotics and Purging of Testicles - Bitches and blow.
0500 - Daily Rest - The Space Wolf passes out.
(A few of the more popular chapters have these on 1d4chan)
I thought both blood angels and salamanders spent a lot of time being doing arts and crafts to make their bolters look nicer to whichever unfortunate xeno/heretic/demon is staring down the barrel befor BLAM
1300 - Wake Up from Hangover - The Space Wolf awakens from his booze/drug-induced coma and begins the day. Headaches abound. Aspirin is consumed by the ton.
1310 - Morning Piss - The Space Wolf empties the alcohol that has accumulated in his bladder in the Sacred Alcohol Excretion Grounds.
1315 - Morning Piss Ends - The Space Wolves have finally finished urinating.
1330 - Ritual Intake of Alcoholic Beverages - The Space Wolf now cracks open his first cold one of the day. The first of many. Cheerios may be consumed as well.
1345 - Firing Drills - The Space Wolf consumes another litre of alcohol before going out back and shooting empty beer bottles with his bolter. This takes place far away from the Alcohol Excretion Grounds, after that one time Brother Brynjolf accidentally lit his own piss on fire, and had to end up in sickbay until his beard grew back and he was thus fit to be seen in public again.
1400 - Freeze your Gonads - The Space Wolf sheds his armor and most of his clothing to wander around Asaheim for an hour.
1500 - Feeding of the Land Raiders - Space Wolf observes a feast with his brothers in honour of the chapter's revered battle machines. Blood Claws are still wandering around outside naked in the snow.
1530 - Boozing of the Land Raiders - No feast is complete without shittons of liquor. Ale and beer are poured and scrubbed all over the most honoured of the chapter's war machines. Many still have bullet holes, sometimes allowing beer to get into the exhaust ports and make for kickass explosions later. Blood Claws are still wandering around outside naked in the snow.
1600 - Wolf your Wolf - Grey Hunters and older Space Wolves take this time to play with their favourite 4-legged companions. Blood Claws are still wandering around outside naked in the snow.
1630 - Save the Blood Claws - Blood Claws are brought in from the cold. Most are frozen blue or black - and hungry for more.
1700 - Evening feast - Eat. Drink. Start brawls. The usual non-warzone Space Wolf thing.
1800 - Try to wake up Bjorn.
1810 - Give up, try to find something fun on the in the Vox Saga.
1900 - Night gakker break.
2000 - Night firing drills - Much to the Iron Priest's dismay, the Space Wolf has used up the last bolter shell in the Chapter's stock of ammunition.
2100 - Ritual Intake of Narcotics and Purging of Testicles - Bitches and blow.
0500 - Daily Rest - The Space Wolf passes out.
Omfgorzzz wrote: Man sounds like a crappy life. Your a super human fighting machine bad*ss. Not even enough time to get a little tail from an admiring female. Come on emporer let your men have some fun.
This is why everyone joins the Red Corsairs. Its a known fact that Huron's forces now rival the Legions of old, and while this has been a point of contention for many players, it ultimately comes down to the fact that the ladies are totally down with pirates. And since Huron captured the Wolf of Fenris, the renegade Space Wolves have set up some of the loosest pubs and clubs this side of Segmentum Ultima.
Grey Templar wrote:That said, a marine is still going to be fully functional. But its as if the wiring has just been cut.
Source?
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I find it too amusing how Marines absolutely have to have fully working penises when the alternative is much more likely. Apparently, without a dick, they'd suddenly be "unmanly"?
BlaxicanX wrote: They do the same thing off-duty that Sororitas do.
So your claim is based on personal opinion. You should point that out when you make a post like that.
My personal opinion is that in a setting where people plug in tubes in their heads to interface with cybernetic machinery, it would be far more efficient for Astartes to simply have a "plug" down there with which they can interface with their power armour's waste recycler directly rather than having to fumble with an alternate means of connection. Also eliminates chafing and waste of space in the lower armour section. And that's before we touch upon the potential effects of their completely imbalanced body chemistry (see: atrophied genitalia for real life body builders) and the Emperor's lack of reason for why he should let them keep such useless equipment in a working condition. You said it yourself, "if something can restart the sex drive the Marine can function" - sounds like an obvious safety risk to me, considering the one and only purpose of Astartes is to make war. Then again, I have subscribed to the school of thought that the Emperor view the Space Marines as a temporary measure which was supposed to be phased out after the conclusion of the Great Crusade, rather than creating a potential replacement for normal humans, so of course that has affected my position as well.
But hey, if you need your Marines to have working wangs (the very fact you even pointed this out when the topic was not about Marine dicks at all probably means it has some importance?), go ahead - we all pull our own interpretations and neither of us can be wrong. I'm merely cautioning about making them sound like facts that other people have to pick up.
Omfgorzzz wrote: Man sounds like a crappy life. Your a super human fighting machine bad*ss. Not even enough time to get a little tail from an admiring female. Come on emporer let your men have some fun.
There would be no point; Space Marines are not actually capable of that anyway.
Space Marines WERE normal human males. Who hadn't hit puberty yet I should note.
They are not human any more. The process that makes a space marine changes their body, genetics, and mindset too much for htemi to be considered human.
Space Marines are more divergent from humanity than Ogryns and Ratlings. In-universe, neither of them are considered human either.
You forget that it states that Salamanders are known to spend lots of time in their original villages. Many are even part of their respective village High Councils.
DarthMarko wrote: SM have acid in their balls probably but here is a better one - Do SoB have sex? Just don't tell me that crap "they are brides of the Emperor "...
P.S.
sorry for the bad language...
In the dreams of 12 year olds having fantasies of Chaos Sisters of battle that wear no armor, yeah.
Which one? That ogryns and ratlings aren't human, or that Space Marines are divergent from humanity?
For the former, it's in the latest rulebook. Ogryns and Ratlings are not classified as Homo Sapiens Sapiens; instead, they're classified as Homo Sapiens Gigantis and etc-- they are a different subspecies from humans. Other subspecies include Homo Sapiens Hirsuitus (aka Felinids, which amused me to no end), for example. Keep in mind that there is nowhere near enough difference between modern human races to have any of them classified as subspecies-- the genetic difference between an Ogryn and a Human is far bigger than the genetic difference between a "pure" Caucasian and a "pure" African, for example.
For the latter, it's in every rulebook since second. The creation of a space marine article as well. The genetic implants adjust the genes of the recipient-- the occulobe, for example, adjusts the genetic code of the eye to make it more suited for optic therapy from the apothecaries. And none of them work without the proper chemical therapy to change the genetic structure of the recipient anyway. This chemical therapy is intensive and, itself, can kill the recipient of the implants. The end result is that a Space Marine after the implantation process either cannot or does not become interested in procreation (even IF the appropriate organs still exist and still actually function, which is something that is both unproven and illogical) without some outside influence such as Chaos.
Space Marines, chemically and hormonally, have no sexual desire, making this entire discussion pointless.
I know from reading Horus Heresy novels that during that time, Loken and most of the others from Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, were training, sleeping, or polishing/repairing their armor. I can't even tell you how many times in 3 books that he is depicted with lapping powder and a cloth, polishing various pieces.
Aren't there some statements in the Space Wolves codex that describe them as having the sex every once and awhile? I'm aware that normal Space Marines don't have intercourse.
DarthMarko wrote: If anyone from SM had sex it's the EC...Like in novel "Fulgrim" there is a mild erotic scene,which was kind of refreshing in the sea of bolter porn...
If I want to read, I prefer bolterporn over normal porn
DarthMarko wrote: If anyone from SM had sex it's the EC...Like in novel "Fulgrim" there is a mild erotic scene,which was kind of refreshing in the sea of bolter porn...
If I want to read, I prefer bolterporn over normal porn
Yeah,but it's always the same...I' prefer a little story with dose of bolterporn....
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BlaxicanX wrote: Aren't there some statements in the Space Wolves codex that describe them as having the sex every once and awhile? I'm aware that normal Space Marines don't have intercourse.
Brokksamson wrote: I know from reading Horus Heresy novels that during that time, Loken and most of the others from Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, were training, sleeping, or polishing/repairing their armor. I can't even tell you how many times in 3 books that he is depicted with lapping powder and a cloth, polishing various pieces.
The Horus Heresy is the most homoerotic time in the entire galaxy.
BlaxicanX wrote: Aren't there some statements in the Space Wolves codex that describe them as having the sex every once and awhile? I'm aware that normal Space Marines don't have intercourse.
There's one reference to the 'trickster' (i can't remember his name) having intercourse before his transformation into a Space Marine. There is zero mention of the Space Wolves doing it.
Brokksamson wrote: I know from reading Horus Heresy novels that during that time, Loken and most of the others from Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, were training, sleeping, or polishing/repairing their armor. I can't even tell you how many times in 3 books that he is depicted with lapping powder and a cloth, polishing various pieces.
The Horus Heresy is the most homoerotic time in the entire galaxy.
BlaxicanX wrote: Aren't there some statements in the Space Wolves codex that describe them as having the sex every once and awhile? I'm aware that normal Space Marines don't have intercourse.
There's one reference to the 'trickster' (i can't remember his name) having intercourse before his transformation into a Space Marine. There is zero mention of the Space Wolves doing it.
BlaxicanX wrote: Aren't there some statements in the Space Wolves codex that describe them as having the sex every once and awhile?
It doesn't actually say that they have any form of intercourse, the closest that the codex describes is flirting IIRC, and that probably has more to do with their planet's culture than anything else.
It's kinda hard to remember anything from the SW codex, mind you, what with every third word being "wolf", and "claw" or "fang" as every fourth.
BlaxicanX wrote: Aren't there some statements in the Space Wolves codex that describe them as having the sex every once and awhile?
It doesn't actually say that they have any form of intercourse, the closest that the codex describes is flirting IIRC, and that probably has more to do with their planet's culture than anything else.
It's kinda hard to remember anything from the SW codex, mind you, what with every third word being "wolf", and "claw" or "fang" as every fourth.
Then, the wolfs made fang love to the wolf woman. It was like a claw.
thenoobbomb wrote: Enough marines have hit puberty. They are not castrated or so. They just don't want/need to have sex. Easy.
This is the most realistic assumption.
Castration doesn't really make sense, as it upsets the natural balances that the human male has, and the process of creating Space Marines relies heavily on these balances as far as we understand.
However, with the kinds of heavy psychological condition and the rigorous training regimen and, ultimately, the almost complete segregation from women that Space Marines have for the bulk of their formative years, it makes sense that the sex drives of Space Marines would be completely subdued.
The other important thing to mention is that it's also really never been stated that this is so. Games Workshop just consciously chooses to forbid the mention of overt sexuality in any of their works. Even Slaanesh, the Chaos God of Raping gak, never actually rapes anybody, lol. Space Marines have never been mentioned as having sex because, well, almost nobody in 40K has ever been mentioned as having sex, at least that I can remember, aside from a handful of times where it's been inferred, but not explicitly stated.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Castration doesn't really make sense, as it upsets the natural balances that the human male has, and the process of creating Space Marines relies heavily on these balances as far as we understand.
As per the Index Astartes article on Space Marine creation, the "natural balance" is already destroyed by the augmentation process.
"This chemical treatment is reduced after completion of the initiation process, but it never ends. Marines undergo periodic treatment for the rest of their lives in order to maintain a stable metabolism. This is why their power armour suits contain monitoring equipment and drug dispensers."
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Games Workshop just consciously chooses to forbid the mention of overt sexuality in any of their works.
And it's the most intelligent thing to do for them, from a company point of view.
If they'd say "Space Marines have sex" it'd destroy the warrior monk theme they have going on, and if they'd say "they can't have sex" it'd upset the people feeling it would make them "less manly", lol.
For what 40k is about, it's just a non-issue.
There are bits of sexuality in 40k fluff here and there, though I feel as if it has gotten fewer over the past couple years, because apparently nowaday violence is awesome but sex is a no-no. Off the top of my head I remember the 2E SoB Codex mentioning Schola orphans being sold as sex slaves during the Age of Apostasy. In contrast, nowadays they even designed the Daemonettes because the old version had naked breasts. Naughty!
Brokksamson wrote: I know from reading Horus Heresy novels that during that time, Loken and most of the others from Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, were training, sleeping, or polishing/repairing their armor.
That's pretty much what they do in all of the HH and other stories when they describe down time.
Ooo, people can crap 14 pages 4sure...Next thread "Sex life of the first founding chapters","how do Iron hands please themselves and why did Magnus often climb up to Ahriman's room...But let stick to the OP-s first question...
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Brokksamson wrote: I know from reading Horus Heresy novels that during that time, Loken and most of the others from Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, were training, sleeping, or polishing/repairing their armor. I can't even tell you how many times in 3 books that he is depicted with lapping powder and a cloth, polishing various pieces.
Loken liked to read, some of the SM ornated bolter rounds,SW did drink,brawl,hunt and tell sagas...WE had fighting pits,EC enjoyed making art and listening music...
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Castration doesn't really make sense, as it upsets the natural balances that the human male has, and the process of creating Space Marines relies heavily on these balances as far as we understand.
As per the Index Astartes article on Space Marine creation, the "natural balance" is already destroyed by the augmentation process.
"This chemical treatment is reduced after completion of the initiation process, but it never ends. Marines undergo periodic treatment for the rest of their lives in order to maintain a stable metabolism. This is why their power armour suits contain monitoring equipment and drug dispensers."
Right, which is why you don't mess with the formula even more with unnecessary procedures that would further throw off their physiology, lol.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Right, which is why you don't mess with the formula even more with unnecessary procedures that would further throw off their physiology, lol.
Basically, don't create more work for yourself.
And the reason why that formula would not take this into consideration by default is ...?
I for one would not exactly call it an unnecessary procedure if it lowers the risks for unintentional exposure to redundant and distracting sensations, reduces the potential for chafing during battle in a suit of powered armour, and makes interfacing with the suit's waste recycler a whole lot easier. Or would you prefer to insert a cathether in there each time you don it? This is 40k. Tubes are the way to go.
So, to me, that's three good reasons - and considering the wide array of organs and modifications that "might maybe someday be useful but aren't exactly necessary for day-to-day activities" (acid saliva when wearing a helmet? sweat that cocoons you in a vacuum-proof shell when you wear fully sealed power armour?), I don't see why Emps should cheap out on this when his techs went to such great lengths to incorporate any possible modification that may possibly be of value to their fighting capabilities and efficiency. I can't think of one good reason.
But as I said, this is clearly a matter of interpretation. So if it's that important for your vision of the Space Marines, keep it.
thenoobbomb wrote: Enough marines have hit puberty. They are not castrated or so. They just don't want/need to have sex. Easy.
This is the most realistic assumption.
Castration doesn't really make sense, as it upsets the natural balances that the human male has, and the process of creating Space Marines relies heavily on these balances as far as we understand.
However, with the kinds of heavy psychological condition and the rigorous training regimen and, ultimately, the almost complete segregation from women that Space Marines have for the bulk of their formative years, it makes sense that the sex drives of Space Marines would be completely subdued.
The other important thing to mention is that it's also really never been stated that this is so. Games Workshop just consciously chooses to forbid the mention of overt sexuality in any of their works. Even Slaanesh, the Chaos God of Raping gak, never actually rapes anybody, lol. Space Marines have never been mentioned as having sex because, well, almost nobody in 40K has ever been mentioned as having sex, at least that I can remember, aside from a handful of times where it's been inferred, but not explicitly stated.
There's one reference to the 'trickster' (i can't remember his name) having intercourse before his transformation into a Space Marine. There is zero mention of the Space Wolves doing it.
That would be Lukas the Trickster. Before he was a marine he was a famous lothario who shared beds with what appeared to be half a village full of women in one night (there's more detail in the codex - not THAT sort of detail , but IIRC there are some numbers for the amount of women.) But that was before he was a marine. I don't know of any references where space marines go off with women.
Athough 'orgiastic pleasure' was a phrase the emperors children taught me...
Lynata wrote:So if it's that important for your vision of the Space Marines, keep it.
You know, you keep saying that, in a very self-satisfied tone, but you seem to be pretty invested in your own vision, as if castrated Space Marines is some kind of weird feminist victory or something.
I'd take a few looks in the mirror before you get all winky.
I'm just saying that I don't see the point. Is it maybe easier if they just have a pee plug? I guess. But, at the same time, given Space Marine physiology, and the fact that the suit regulates everything else, perhaps disposing of liquid waste isn't as big of a deal. Their system could be far more efficient and the need for traditional urination far less often. It isn't about Space Marines needing junk to be more manly, it's just that the "annoyance factor" of liquid waste disposal seems like a strange tradeoff for removal of the body's most important source of male hormones. I mean, a catheter is such an archaic instrument anyway, even by modern standards. If they can harness fusion in man portable weapons systems, I'm fairly sure they can devise an efficient means of collecting Space Marine pee.
I would have never brought it up in the first place, were it not for some posters claiming these things as if they were facts in every thread where this discussion appears. So I am clarifying before anyone gets misled by such statements, and I am offering a counter-opinion which, in my own opinion, sounds somewhat more likely, given all the factors involved, including the Imperium's propensity for body modification.
*I* will also not deny a certain bias, though. It goes back chiefly to my belief in "narrative balance", and that each advantageous perk needs to be balanced with something, which translates to Space Marines in that the more awesome they get, the more they are removed from the very same humanity they have sworn to protect - culturally as well as physically. It's why I like some of the more conventional Marine Chapters but have issues with how the Space Wolves are supposed to fit into the setting. And expanding on this, to me, surgery sets a far stronger sign here than some fans' "yeah they've got everything, they just don't use it" approach.
It may also be that, in addition to the above, I am "lashing out" against what I perceive as a self-opinionated, even arrogant streak amongst a segment of Marine fans (which actually caused my own fondness of the Astartes to dwindle quite a bit over the years, in what almost seems like an allergic reaction to this behaviour). In extension, I find it confusing that it is apparently even necessary to talk about this topic, so I am perhaps tempted to chime in and hit on what seems to be a "weak spot" that is easy to ridicule. What can I say, I am a flawed human being. But at least I am aware of that.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Right, which is why you don't mess with the formula even more with unnecessary procedures that would further throw off their physiology, lol. Basically, don't create more work for yourself.
And the reason why that formula would not take this into consideration by default is ...?
I for one would not exactly call it an unnecessary procedure if it lowers the risks for unintentional exposure to redundant and distracting sensations, reduces the potential for chafing during battle in a suit of powered armour, and makes interfacing with the suit's waste recycler a whole lot easier. Or would you prefer to insert a cathether in there each time you don it? This is 40k. Tubes are the way to go.
So, to me, that's three good reasons - and considering the wide array of organs and modifications that "might maybe someday be useful but aren't exactly necessary for day-to-day activities" (acid saliva when wearing a helmet? sweat that cocoons you in a vacuum-proof shell when you wear fully sealed power armour?), I don't see why Emps should cheap out on this when his techs went to such great lengths to incorporate any possible modification that may possibly be of value to their fighting capabilities and efficiency. I can't think of one good reason.
But as I said, this is clearly a matter of interpretation. So if it's that important for your vision of the Space Marines, keep it.
Apparently according to some people, if the Marines don't have a dick, they aren't really warriors.
It's kinda disturbing when one thinks about it really.
Some marines keep nice hair too, or in the case of the wolves great beards and shaggy manes. One would think they'd remove it all permanently, except maybe the eyebrows. Sweating and hair is a nasty combination for people that can go days or weeks inside power armor.
But I guess it's rule of cool over what makes sense.
Lynata wrote: So I am clarifying before anyone gets misled by such statements, and I am offering a counter-opinion which, in my own opinion, sounds somewhat more likely, given all the factors involved, including the Imperium's propensity for body modification.
Because you're making a positive claim (that Marines are castrated), the burden of proof is on you to provide conclusive evidence. This means that you would need a piece of fluff that explicitly states that Marines are castrated. Until then, the statement that the Imperium has a propensity for body modification doesn't constitute evidence, because it doesn't mention Marines, and is altogether too vague. The best assumption to make then, is that Marines aren't castrated, because there is no evidence to that tune.
By that logic, Space Marines also still have all their sex drive then and are perfectly capable of making babies anytime they choose. After all, there is nothing in the books that says otherwise.
I'm not trying to prove anything - if I wanted to do so, I'd have already posted the non-existent quotes. Hence I also need no evidence. My opinion still is as good as anyone's, and whether you want to adopt it or not depends entirely on your own perception of the Astartes and the Imperium as a whole.
We clearly disagree on what the "best assumption" is. You have named your reasons, I have named mine. And that about wraps it up.
Lynata wrote: By that logic, Space Marines also still have all their sex drive then and are perfectly capable of making babies anytime they choose. After all, there is nothing in the books that says otherwise.
They are post human - women don't find them attractive and they don't find women attractive - Read the interchanges between Loken and Mersadie in the heresy (IIRC-although I can't remember which of the first three books it is).
I think space marine nether regions should be treated like sex ed in the 80's. Lets not talk about it - they can find out for themselves
And back onto marines off time - are there any more of those marine daily task lists anywhere? I liked what I've read
Lynata wrote: So your claim is based on personal opinion. You should point that out when you make a post like that.
My personal opinion is that in a setting where people plug in tubes in their heads to interface with cybernetic machinery, it would be far more efficient for Astartes to simply have a "plug" down there with which they can interface with their power armour's waste recycler directly rather than having to fumble with an alternate means of connection. Also eliminates chafing and waste of space in the lower armour section. And that's before we touch upon the potential effects of their completely imbalanced body chemistry (see: atrophied genitalia for real life body builders) and the Emperor's lack of reason for why he should let them keep such useless equipment in a working condition. You said it yourself, "if something can restart the sex drive the Marine can function" - sounds like an obvious safety risk to me, considering the one and only purpose of Astartes is to make war. Then again, I have subscribed to the school of thought that the Emperor view the Space Marines as a temporary measure which was supposed to be phased out after the conclusion of the Great Crusade, rather than creating a potential replacement for normal humans, so of course that has affected my position as well.
But hey, if you need your Marines to have working wangs (the very fact you even pointed this out when the topic was not about Marine dicks at all probably means it has some importance?), go ahead - we all pull our own interpretations and neither of us can be wrong. I'm merely cautioning about making them sound like facts that other people have to pick up.
Supposedly, The Emperor's Gift states that Grey Knights do have penises (and the person who notes it is apparently surprised). Whether or not they work is up to each individual player.
DarthMarko wrote: SM have acid in their balls probably, but here is a better one - Do SoB have sex? Just don't tell me that crap "they are brides of the Emperor "...
P.S.
sorry for the bad language...
They call themselves "Daughters of the Emperor" these days.
They can have sex (and even get married), but in practice it rarely happens, because their duty comes first (some even take vows of chastity).
Personally, I'm convinced that Saint Celestine and Justicar Thawn are secret ****buddies. It just makes perfect sense, on both a serious and humorous level. If you were an immortal saint of the God-Emperor (the immortal incorruptible superhuman psyker obsessed with fighting Chaos), how could you not be attracted to another immortal incorruptible superhuman psyker obsessed with fighting Chaos (created from the very gene seed of the God-Emperor, no less)? And if you were an immortal incorruptible superhuman psyker obsessed with fighting Chaos who has to execute or mind-wipe anyone they meet, how could you not be attracted to the one woman in the galaxy who is in the same boat as you and can't be executed or mind-wiped because she rises from the dead and disappears at the end of the mission?
If there is one romantic relationship that makes sense in 40k, this is it.
DarthMarko wrote: SM have acid in their balls probably, but here is a better one - Do SoB have sex? Just don't tell me that crap "they are brides of the Emperor "...
P.S.
sorry for the bad language...
They call themselves "Daughters of the Emperor" these days.
They can have sex (and even get married), but in practice it rarely happens, because their duty comes first (some even take vows of chastity).
Personally, I'm convinced that Saint Celestine and Justicar Thawn are secret ****buddies. It just makes perfect sense, on both a serious and humorous level. If you were an immortal saint of the God-Emperor (the immortal incorruptible superhuman psyker obsessed with fighting Chaos), how could you not be attracted to another immortal incorruptible superhuman psyker obsessed with fighting Chaos (created from the very gene seed of the God-Emperor, no less)? And if you were an immortal incorruptible superhuman psyker obsessed with fighting Chaos who has to execute or mind-wipe anyone they meet, how could you not be attracted to the one woman in the galaxy who is in the same boat as you and can't be executed or mind-wiped because she rises from the dead and disappears at the end of the mission?
If there is one romantic relationship that makes sense in 40k, this is it.
If these two got busy, chaos will be fethed up. Imagine mini-emperors that can come back from the dead. Daemon will be banish just by the sight of them.
reaper with no name wrote:Supposedly, The Emperor's Gift states that Grey Knights do have penises (and the person who notes it is apparently surprised).
You are referring to the shower scene where the girl looks at the nude Hyperion and says "what a waste"?
It kind of sounds like the opposite of what you say the book "supposedly" states, though I have a hard time believing that any Black Library novel would openly talk about penises, anyways.
Not that it would have much relevance... GW is GW and Black Library novels are Black Library novels. Let's keep in mind that 40k does not have a "canon" like other, more organised franchises do.
reaper with no name wrote:They can have sex (and even get married) [...]
I'm going to assume this comes from some Black Library novel as well, for GW's own fluff is fairly clear on that question:
"Part of the puritan lifestyle of the Sisterhood is its isolation, and it is generally only the Canoness and her most experienced Sister Superiors who will have dealings with outsiders - even Sisters of another Order. The Sisters are utterly dedicated to one task or discipline, and brook no distraction from their studies." - 2E C:SoB
"It is our creed that the purpose of life is to suffer, for in this way we become one with the Emperor's eternal suffering. Have you not heard that those who suffer are blessed?" - 3E Rulebook (Canoness dialogue, amongst SoB fans also known as "the barbed pen story")
"Their pious, rigid way of life allows the Battle Sisters no room for pleasure, there is only prayer and war." - WD #211
PredaKhaine wrote:They are post human - women don't find them attractive and they don't find women attractive - Read the interchanges between Loken and Mersadie in the heresy
Sounds like it would conflict with the "what a waste" comment from that novel the reaper mentioned.
But potential continuity problems between the various HH books aside, this is another good example for how a BL novel may evoke a conflicting perception when compared to GW fluff ... for in the current Space Wolf Codex there is a story about some SW by the name of Svengar "making a casual pass at one of their women" (direct quote), referring to a bunch of "tall, fair people" they encounter on an unknown world. Said people eventually transform into something inhuman and these particular SW are never heard of again, but it still goes to show that apparently the Marines can still appreciate human beauty, even if - and here we delve into theoryland again - their interaction is borne out of nothing but cultural habit rather than actual sex drive.
And it makes sense, I think. Why would they stop finding a certain type of female human beautiful when they have lived amongst them until the age of puberty? They also will not stop to appreciate local customs, and this is how most Marine Chapters tend to adopt the culture of their recruits - for better or for worse (see: excommunication of the Sons of Malice). Even through all the hypno-indoctrination, they will not just forget completely who they were before being recruited. And old habits die hard. Though I suppose it could be a Chapter-specific thing, too. Even moreso as we're talking about the Space Wolves here, the special snowflakes amongst the Astartes.
I actually remember this story because it is often mentioned by a certain subset of Marine fans as "proof" that Space Marines can and will have sex, though my interpretation is obviously somewhat different.
I do agree about simply not talking about it being the best solution (as we can see, the debate does not really move into any direction due to lack of clarification by GW), though obviously this is a topic that comes up time and time again, and once the cat is out of the bag we may as well pour all our opinions on it.
In a way, it reminds me of all those fans who used to firmly believe that Marines are immune to death by old age, even though GW never said that anywhere. A lot of stuff just gets assumed because it sounds cool, I suppose. And again I say that there's nothing wrong with assumptions, as long as they are clearly labeled as such so as to not mislead the reader.
PredaKhaine wrote:And back onto marines off time - are there any more of those marine daily task lists anywhere? I liked what I've read
Not in this detail, at least to my knowledge. The timetable (I vaguely remember it being from the 3E Codex Space Marines - the first Codex I ever purchased ) was the most detailed thing on the topic that I have seen. However, you may want to take a look at the various Index Astartes articles that GW has published over the years. They contain lots of write-ups on the individual Chapters, and sometimes also mention their unique traditions.
Lynata wrote: Let's keep in mind that 40k does not have a "canon" like other, more organised franchises do.
Of course it does. It is simply deliberately self-contradicting, thereby allowing us to each have our own interpretation of it, which may contradict another person's interpretation while still being canon.
"Their pious, rigid way of life allows the Battle Sisters no room for pleasure, there is only prayer and war." - WD #211
Which also conflicts with one of the Caiphus Cain novels ...one of the sisters in that quite definitely has room for pleasure...
(Although it is only a Cain novel...)
I'd not thought about separating Black Library books from GW books with regard to canon - I always just took it as Black Library couldn't release something GW weren't happy with.
I'd forgotton about the space wolves dex and the wolves who are never heard of again - good point
I'll check the emperor's gift when I get in unless someone can stick the relevant quotes up?
The Inquisiton War books are old, old enough that there are Squats. One squat helping Inquisitor Jaq Draco actually asks the Space Marine that's joined them about marines and sex (can't quite recall how the question was phrased but pretty crude IIRC). The marine replies that he doesn't let such base needs distract him from his duty.
No one dares have a look in his pants to see if the equipment is there, but there's also no comments about anything looking odd when the marine is clad in simple tunic and loincloth. edit: Or rather they're concerned the tunic doesn't cover the Black Carapace well enough.
reaper with no name wrote:Of course it does. It is simply deliberately self-contradicting, thereby allowing us to each have our own interpretation of it, which may contradict another person's interpretation while still being canon.
Well ... that's one way of putting it. Guess it depends on what the term "canon" means for the individual reader - from my experience, most people (including myself) equate it to "consistency", as in = all being part of a larger world, where the material needs to fit in. On the other hand, the term canon may also just mean that something is part of a range of officially licensed products. From the various blogs and comments I usually quote when the question of canonicity comes up, the people who actually write the stuff we're reading seem to be part of the former group, too.
Also see ADB's (whose novel was mentioned here) posts on the subject here on dakka:
Dead Blue Clown wrote: "It's all true and none of it's true" means, at its core: "There is no canon. There's a variety of sources, many of which conflict, but every single one is a lens through which we can see the 40K setting."
(do check out the full quote and his other posts in the thread, though - I fear the issue may be too complicated to "condense" it in a single sentence)
Anyhow, I think our positions are not that far apart from one another, after all. As long as we realise that there are deliberate contradictions rather than a single uniform depiction, it does not matter much whether we call it canon or not. As you say, it comes down to interpretations. I keep repeating that term like a mantra these days whenever fluff is discussed...
PredaKhaine wrote:Which also conflicts with one of the Caiphus Cain novels ...one of the sisters in that quite definitely has room for pleasure...
Yeah I know, I've been nerdraging a lot about how I feel the Sisters' image from GW's own books is "violated" there.
PredaKhaine wrote:I'd not thought about separating Black Library books from GW books with regard to canon - I always just took it as Black Library couldn't release something GW weren't happy with.
Sort of. Gav Thorpe talked a bit about that on his blog, implying that there is a certain degree of artistic license granted to the various authors - though they do jump in if an idea gets too whacky. For example, someone could not just do a 40k novel where the leader of the Imperium is not the Emperor. It's all about catching the "look and feel" of the universe, so to say. Needless to say, however, the individual editors at Black Libary (who ultimately decide which story to publish and which not), all have their own ideas on what would work and what would not. Also explains how C.S. Goto's infamous Multilaser Marines were able to "slip through".
Also see Zweischneid's post here, or more specifically the video interview where Dan Abnett briefly talks about why Black Library was set up in the first place, rather than publishing all novels directly under the GW label just like the codices.
PS: The Inquisition War books were awesome. Granted, I only read the "Inquisitor" one, but I really liked the characters and the overall story.
I think that was my first 40k novel ever, even before I first played the tabletop! Guess it may have played a role in awakening my interest for the setting. Never got around to read the other ones, though. I should probably do that some day ... are they as good as the first one?
I imagine the Sisters are more akin to early Catholic monastic orders.
While in practice they were mostly chaste, there were no actual prohibitions against it. And some members did get married and, in co-ed orders, with other members often enough.
Thats how I imagine the Sisters being. They are traditionally chaste and most members have no interest, but it isn't explicitly forbidden. So it leaves wiggle room for exceptions.
The Codex and thus GW pretty much rule it out*, but of course anyone is free to prefer their own idea or that of some Black Library novel. Same for Space Marines marrying. With both organisations being monastic orders dedicated entirely to their various duties, personally I do not see it feasible, but we will all have our own interpretations there - especially seeing as how our opinions are all coloured differently from reading contradicting fluff from various different sources.
The same goes for their isolation as a whole - in GW fluff, the Sisters are separated from males of their age right from the start, as the Schola Progenium is gender-segregated and, as mentioned earlier, the Sisters' convents generally do not allow anyone else inside.
The gender-segregation in the Schola is something where the Cain novels differ from Codex fluff, too, by the way, so there's another example.
(*: here's another bit o' fluff I found
"The Adepta Sororitas are a penitent organisation where constant hardship, deprivation and arduous work are part of an unrelenting devotional regime. The slightest deviation from approved stricture results in the severest chastisement." - 2E Codex Imperialis)
"The Adepta Sororitas are a penitent organisation where constant hardship, deprivation and arduous work are part of an unrelenting devotional regime. The slightest deviation from approved stricture results in the severest chastisement." - 2E Codex Imperialis)
Lynata wrote: By that logic, Space Marines also still have all their sex drive then and are perfectly capable of making babies anytime they choose. After all, there is nothing in the books that says otherwise.
Actually, IIRC a number of editions ago (I think it was during 2nd ed) GW expressly stated in the fluff somewhere (don't you love how I cite sources? Well, I'm at school atm and don't have my stack of old codecii with me right now...) that the genetic modifications that make a SM a SM can not be transferred via impregnation of a woman (I think the exact words were "conventional reproductive methods") which made gene implantation after birth the only viable way to make a SM. This is the closest GW has come to saying whether or not SM can have sex. It implies that intercourse is possible but that nothing would come of it. Since sex has exactly two purposes (reproduction and recreation), and since the former doesn't work and the latter is actively discouraged among chapters that aren't the Emperor's Children, it makes sense to assume that SM are capable, but don't partake because it serves no purpose in their life of war. And if that 3rd ed daily schedule is anythign to go by, most SM don't do anything except wage war or spend their every other moment preparing to wage war.
Frankly, I always thought of the generic SM as being much like the Zentraedi from Macross (or the first third of Robotech, if that's how you roll)... a gender-segregated clone race bred entirely for war, with a culture dedicated solely to blowing gak up, and so focused on said war, that they consider the opposite sex of their own species to be as alien as the things they spend their time exploderizing. A SM wouldn't stick his dangly bits in an Ork or a Necron, why would he stick them in a human female? They're just so... different.
Back onto the OP; what a marine does in his down time depends entirely on the personality of his chapter. Black Templars are always angry and have no sense of humor. They exist to stab things or club them with firearms. Their daily schedule reflects that (that's the one from the 3rd ed codex). I expect the Ultras would spend time administering to their domain of Ultramar (filling paperwork ftw!) and the Blood Angels would spend time doing art and contemplating the futility of their own existence. The Space Wolves would get drunk and swap bullgak stories of their own prowess, just like the vikings they are modelled after. So the answer to the question "what does a marine do in his spare time?" is: "Whatever you want him to; it's your bloody chapter."
This got off topic but if a space marine did have sex wouldn't the person just die from the marines strength, speed and stamina. That would be awkward.
LumbarGibbon wrote: This got off topic but if a space marine did have sex wouldn't the person just die from the marines strength, speed and stamina. That would be awkward.
You mean "Superman vs Lois Lane" example....it's like SM would likely ejaculate with lethal power & velocity, since all of his muscles are 10x stronger than a human's and cause internal bleeding in any SPACE chick...or man (UM)
BlaxicanX wrote: Aren't there some statements in the Space Wolves codex that describe them as having the sex every once and awhile? I'm aware that normal Space Marines don't have intercourse.
The other important thing to mention is that it's also really never been stated that this is so. Games Workshop just consciously chooses to forbid the mention of overt sexuality in any of their works. Even Slaanesh, the Chaos God of Raping gak, never actually rapes anybody, lol. Space Marines have never been mentioned as having sex because, well, almost nobody in 40K has ever been mentioned as having sex, at least that I can remember, aside from a handful of times where it's been inferred, but not explicitly stated.
I've always just believed that the indoctrination and hypnosis rendered a SM's sex drive non existent, whilst the chemo and radiotherapies rendered him sterile, which I feel makes quite a lot of sense since that's what'd happen in the real world, we've all held the metal plate over our junk getting an x-ray gents. I also highly doubt that castration or a penectomy would happen, purely for basic reasons; marines are chosen at a certain age to ensure that the marine's body develops naturally too, the implants basically make puberty a few hundred times more violent, and the hormones coming from the testicles (i.e testosterone) are going to be a major factor in this. As for the penis, it's going to pretty difficult to urinate without one when not in armour, many men who have them removed die of infection due to constantly inserting a catheter and cutting the skin, allowing urea to enter the blood, surely it's easier for the marine to simply attach a condom like tube in the suit, rather than be constantly switching cathaters?
As for virgin Primarchs, I think it's highly likely that at least a few had consorts, wives, even entire harems, just that it's left out of the history books, take away the humanity and watch the god appear. Plus they live a very long time, chances are a few are widowers already.
And finally, OT, like people have said, SM's pray, target practice, eat a little, hit stuff. It depends on the chapter, they'll all do it differently, I guess it's up to personal interpretation.
It's more implied than explicitly stated, isn't it? It's a while since I read Legion.
From legion:
Spoiler:
The sex had been exceptional. A page later:
+You have taken a wrong step, John Grammaticus. The intimite bond you have made with this female is impairing your mission+
nice find.
