I recently visited GW Leicester and noticed the store was a great deal smaller despite being in the same location - When i asked what had happened I was told a partition wall had been introduced to "create a convenient storage area downstairs " and free play gaming tables have been reduced to just one !

This week i found out that Wakefield GW store is also "downsizing" and will have 3 intro tables NO painting table and NO free play tables , the excuse given is " this allows us to concentrate our efforts on new gamers and help them into the hobby "

I throw this open to the gaming community - Is this becoming a trend of GW stores ?

My two cents worth - what is the point of bringing new gamers into "the hobby" if you then cut them off with what is to me an attitude of "take your stuff and get the hell out of our store" - i see GW in danger of becoming the " unfriendly local gaming store "

Your thoughts

Apologies to mods if this is in the wrong section

In Atlanta, GA USA they opened a new GW store not too long ago and it's exactly like you described.

Two demo tables with the starter sets from Warhammer & 40k on them, a small painting station in the corner (used mostly by employees) and they focus on getting new people into the hobby.

They do demo games of 500 points only.

Is that the Games Workshop City Walk store? I keep meaning to visit and check it out, just haven't gotten a chance yet.

I did visit the one in Mall of Georgia a million years ago, and thought it was pretty small; then again, it was in a mall, so I'm sure rents must have exorbitant.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
Is that the Games Workshop City Walk store? I keep meaning to visit and check it out, just haven't gotten a chance yet.

I did visit the one in Mall of Georgia a million years ago, and thought it was pretty small; then again, it was in a mall, so I'm sure rents must have exorbitant.

It is, the owner is a guy named Kenny and he's a great guy. It's just a really small store. A lot of people play at Giga-Bites Cafe in Marietta since they have 12 tables set up for table top gaming. At Giga, Wednesday is 40K and Thursday is Fantasy usually with pick up games on the weekends.

Is this Greystorms?

If you go in and use the free tables/paints a lot it will be worse,

If you go in and buy stuff the store having a stock area will be better as they are far more likely to be able to supply what you want

(and I suspect it may mean they can have fewer staff to supervise a 'smaller store')

As for new players I've always found GW stores are far more receptive to geniune newbies than FLGS which are far more likely to have an established clique who know the owner and clog up the tables (may not be the same everywhere, but that's been my experience)

From what I've seen of the recently opened GW shop in Kansas City, and what's been insinuated by the operators, the small intro stores are to basically gauge market saturation and drum up interest in under served regions. My guess is that if they generate revenue they either stay or upsize at the end of the lease, or if they don't they move out.

Where is the problem with this? Cutting down on loitering is what a lot of stores do. And businesses calculate how much money they make per square foot. There is no requirement for them to have excessive amounts of gaming space for people who complain about the prices and buy online, now is there?

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


As for new players I've always found GW stores are far more receptive to geniune newbies than FLGS which are far more likely to have an established clique who know the owner and clog up the tables (may not be the same everywhere, but that's been my experience)

If like me you can't get to our local gaming club (work nights) and we have no independent within 30+ miles (that i know of) i only have the GW store to game in and this new " noob only " policy is a killer

There was a store opened up in the suburbs, a few years ago, when they were semi-interested in doing business in French. They found out that parents would just dump their kids there with no money and come pick them up hours later.

Smart parents, finding free babysitters.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Where is the problem with this? Cutting down on loitering is what a lot of stores do. And businesses calculate how much money they make per square foot. There is no requirement for them to have excessive amounts of gaming space for people who complain about the prices and buy online, now is there?

Is that what the OP was complaining about - a lack of space to loiter and complain about GW while in a GW store?

Probably not...

He might be upset that his "FLGS" just got a bit unfriendly, and maybe he's short of gaming space now?

Who knows...

I believe that any store that is not battle bunker size will either be shut down or if possible, downsized to these this mini store concept.

Reason: Profitability by reduction of staffing, less store hours, less use of utilities, etc. Besides raising prices to obscene levels in June, how else are you going to make profit with your declining customer base?

Looks good on the bottom line when you do your quarterly financial reports. And that is what share holders thinks.

The point is that a GW store is purely there to show the hobby to new customers. It's not to provide a gaming club or loitering space.
The idea is that a GW introduces new people to the games, shows them how to get started and takes them through to becoming an independant gamer. At which point they're encouraged to join/create a local gaming club or school club. That way the store can get on with finding more new players.

 darkangels_rule wrote:
I recently visited GW Leicester and noticed the store was a great deal smaller despite being in the same location - When i asked what had happened I was told a partition wall had been introduced to "create a convenient storage area downstairs " and free play gaming tables have been reduced to just one !

This week i found out that Wakefield GW store is also "downsizing" and will have 3 intro tables NO painting table and NO free play tables , the excuse given is " this allows us to concentrate our efforts on new gamers and help them into the hobby "

I throw this open to the gaming community - Is this becoming a trend of GW stores ?

My two cents worth - what is the point of bringing new gamers into "the hobby" if you then cut them off with what is to me an attitude of "take your stuff and get the hell out of our store" - i see GW in danger of becoming the " unfriendly local gaming store "

Your thoughts

Apologies to mods if this is in the wrong section

The purpose is, the exposure in advertisement.
Sure the customer will no doubt never contribute to THAT store directly, but they'll just buy it online.

And with the constant GW price increase? You can bet they already took that into account,
now buying even at 25% off is no different than purchasing from full price 1-2 years ago.

Thats the direction GW is going.

Which is odd because you need someone somewhere to offer you space for "normal" games,

 Symbio Joe wrote:
Which is odd because you need someone somewhere to offer you space for "normal" games,

Why would it be odd? it fits in their sales model of "catering to new customers."
Isnt it more than a coincidence everything they have been doing the past 5 years fits that?

New customers
New shinny things
No one to complain about prices because they havn't been in the game long enough
No need to cater to vets because " we dont make much profit off them anyways".

Its like factory assembly, just keep feeding the new ones, throw out the old and stale.

I think there might be a slight problem with introducing someone to a hobby and then sending them on their way. If you go to another store that has more room and the same stuff as GW then why ever go back to GW? Plus all the other games that will be at an independent store that might take sales away from GW in the long run.

Rotgut wrote:
I think there might be a slight problem with introducing someone to a hobby and then sending them on their way. If you go to another store that has more room and the same stuff as GW then why ever go back to GW? Plus all the other games that will be at an independent store that might take sales away from GW in the long run.

Another store? As in another store that carries GW products?
You know GW have the confidence they ARE THE $**t ?
Thus even if people play and buy GW at Indie stores, GW IS STILL MAKING MONEY.

Think of GW mini stores as billboards.
They hit you OOMF with the product image, entices you to get it ,
do they fill in the rest with product info and which mall to purchase it in?

Nope, not necessary nor does it fulfill the purpose

Downsizing is never a marketing decision. However, that garbage spin they gave you was.

Best check their financial information and see if anything indicates that they're downsizing for that much, much more plausible reason.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Where is the problem with this? Cutting down on loitering is what a lot of stores do. And businesses calculate how much money they make per square foot. There is no requirement for them to have excessive amounts of gaming space for people who complain about the prices and buy online, now is there?

What do you think the problem is. Maybe the OP wanted to have gaming space and now he's losing that gaming space? He didn't say it was a problem from GW's perspective, he said it was a problem from his perspective. Get a grip. People see things from their perspective and they calculate benefits based on what they get out of it, not by how a bunch of corporate accountants see things.

The new GW in our city only has 2 tables and is pretty crammed. It is a small store in a strip mall with just enough wall space to place all their merch.

GW's are really not "game stores", they are stores that sell a game.

This isn't new news. This was talked about years ago already. One other factor with the reduced footage, a lot of malls in the US charge you based on both sales an square footage. The local GameStop pulled out of the mall near me despite being being next to a major university with 30,000+ students. It was the only video game store in a 5 mile radius and was normally packed at any major launch. Talking with one of the employees who had been reassigned to another store, the large square footage multiplied with high sales factored rent caused the rent to become astronomical.

Lets get people into a game and then give them nowhere to play it. Better yet, lets make it so they don't play in our shops, but play in wargaming clubs where they'll be introduced to other systems. New gamers are quite open, so I would suppose that if they were introduced to another game early on that was cheaper and had the same gamer base they'd take it up instead. The purpose of tables in GW stores was to prevent this, but now they're essentially giving up their monopoly over the younger gamers (ie the infamous day care center of GW shops).

To follow on with this I would note that my local GW's gotten a policy that you have to book a table hours in advance to play on it. In addition to this you're only alloud to watch a game if all parties have agreed to this. The later point doesn't sound so bad, but I was rather rudely told to "feth off" essentially by a pair of gamers when I happened to look over at their game whilst shopping (and the staff agreed with them). Meh, if it brings more people to clubs that isn't an issue I guess, at least there the guys with their heads up their butts are mildly told to grow up or leave. =P

Years ago, GW stores didn't have tables at all. The trend to have gaming table in stores has been growing for some time, both in GW stores and independents. It's much more prevalent in the US now, where all retailers discuss the value of OP (organized play) and how to set up programs. It's strange that GW is getting away from that in their own stores.

silent25 wrote:
This isn't new news. This was talked about years ago already. One other factor with the reduced footage, a lot of malls in the US charge you based on both sales an square footage. The local GameStop pulled out of the mall near me despite being being next to a major university with 30,000+ students. It was the only video game store in a 5 mile radius and was normally packed at any major launch. Talking with one of the employees who had been reassigned to another store, the large square footage multiplied with high sales factored rent caused the rent to become astronomical.

Exactly. And devoting a lot of floor space to open game tables for loitering is sometimes not an option, evem for the Godzilla of game companies...

The retail business equivalent of reconnaissance forces? Seems like a good idea.

This is happening all over Australia.

It started with all stores (except the main hub city store) being closed on their two 'laziest' days. Now a good majority of stores are moving out of the shopping centres (due to rising rents and Westfield's ridiculous terms and conditions) and downsizing into small 1-2 man stores with the exception of the very busiest ones (of which there may be a handful at most.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Where is the problem with this? Cutting down on loitering is what a lot of stores do. And businesses calculate how much money they make per square foot. There is no requirement for them to have excessive amounts of gaming space for people who complain about the prices and buy online, now is there?

well the problem i see is this. with few tables that means few players= less incentive to buy into a hobby that is already hard to get into if you dont know a community of players. the only example i can give is the local one that works like so

GW recently opened a store in OK, which has 2 tables (from what im told, haven't felt the need to visit myself) and the same if not lesser selection from our FLGS that has been in business for a long time. now GW is aggressive in salesmanship, but the FLGS doesnt even need that kind of sales tactic. with so many players regularly hanging out there, many will try to sell you models just to get you to come and play with us. so the players become the salesman, and when someone walks in looking to buy GW products, its more encouraging to see players playing on one of the many tables (we have 6 preset with 2 more if tournament turnouts are good) knowing that there is a thriving community of sorts to play with.

 d-usa wrote:
The new GW in our city only has 2 tables and is pretty crammed. It is a small store in a strip mall with just enough wall space to place all their merch.

GW's are really not "game stores", they are stores that sell a game.

Yes right, they haven't been the former for many years. These latest changes are just pushing things further along that path.

If you are serious about gaming, and want the best playing environment, GW should be further along the list of choices some way after a club/FLGS or your own garage or basement.

My local store had got cut down to a one-man store - two out of three of the employees were transferred to another store. Also my local store is closed on Mondays and Tuesdays.

Over the years I've seen people excuse GW prices in part because they provide a game centre and support the local gaming area and allow people to use their equipment and table space. Though I can't stand the idea of playing in a GW store myself.

I guess that argument is dying a bit if they don't even try to support gaming, the tables being there only to sell to new customers. What purpose does a GW store achieve now in the hobby? Many independents now have greater floorspace and gaming areas, gone are the days when the local hobby shop was a pokey, cluttered little shop the size of my bedroom.

If you increasingly can't game at GW stores why would there be customer loyalty to actually buy from GW stores, and why would anyone still feel the necessity to be GW pure? As you only need to jump through that hoop if you want to play in their stores which they don't want any more.

Sure GW, get people into the game, sell them a box and send them away. Then they can go to a proper store and buy a load of other models and play some real games.

agree totally with Howard on this.

also if you guys want another report of downsizing, Bedford was downsized in store size in the spring. reduced tables from 2 6x4 + 1 4x4 plus 4x4 intro table split in 2 for 40k, fantasy. to 1 of each and the intro board

Lol. I gotta say that demanding that GW provides gaming space is kind of unreasonable. Does the grocery store provide a place to cook and eat your food? Does sporting goods stores provide a place to work out?

I've played more or less once a week for the last few years, but I've never played at a GW store. In fact, the thought of playing at a GW store is somewhat unpleasant. All those ADHD 10 year olds in there, watching the game and touching my models. I've almost never been in a GW store without there being a bunch of kids in there, playing or arguing at the tops of their voices, and the noise level is almost unbearable.

No, I'd never go to GW to play, unless they had some 18 yr old age restriction. What I did was build my own collapsible gaming table, which I could bring with me, and with that in the car, it never happens that we can't find some place that's available for a game.

I understand that some people seem to think it is GWs responsibility to provide gaming space and I understand that it is not but for me it comes down to this:

As a company I think they have made some gakky decisions that very clearly say 'we don't care about people that have been in the hobby for a while, we are only interested in the new kids and their parents wallets'. I am happy to overlook that and will actually pay store prices for things if I can then hang out and get a game or two in. If not then why the hell should I buy direct when I can get it for 25% off online or 15% off at my FLGS?

It is by no means their responsibility to provide a place for me to play but at the same time they have to give me an incentive to actually buy their products at the prices they want.

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
Lol. I gotta say that demanding that GW provides gaming space is kind of unreasonable.

Complaining when a service that has been provided for a heck of a long time now is removed isn't really that unreasonable. Sure, there is no specific requirement for a store to have gaming space. But when the store has been providing gaming space for a decade and then takes it away, it shouldn't be too surprising that people who made use of that space will complain about it.

 insaniak wrote:

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
Lol. I gotta say that demanding that GW provides gaming space is kind of unreasonable.

Complaining when a service that has been provided for a heck of a long time now is removed isn't really that unreasonable. Sure, there is no specific requirement for a store to have gaming space. But when the store has been providing gaming space for a decade and then takes it away, it shouldn't be too surprising that people who made use of that space will complain about it.

It's not really unreasonable, they can do what they like. But it's a bit of a change in approach, they have tried to distinguish themselves from other companies based on their 'hobby centres' being able to offer more than products off the shelf, but support in gaming and modelling. Now there will be less hobby going on in their shops and just selling stuff off the shelves. But as they have been increasingly concentrating on younger customers that only last a year or so, it's a wonder they didn't do this sooner. There's just more money to be made in pushing starter boxes than fostering a community of long term customers.

Of course, it also flies in the face of GW's primary objection to online retailers.

Mark Wells' letter to those who complained about the EUvsRest of the World embargo stated that online stores are evil because they don't provide support to the hobby, as they can't provide space to game in... Well, neither do GW stores any more.

Hi there. Just to confirm, GW Hemel Hempstead has just been relocated to a smaller premises, and gaming tables need to be booked in advance. Shame, my growing Ork force will need a few games under their belt soon. Better than a store closure though. It was apparently one of the larger GW stores in the area from what I heard, though still a bit pokey compared to the old GW Luton.

Chatting to my local manger he says that GW want to create "independant hobbyists". It's meant to be part of a manager's responsibility to support the local gaming community by getting local & school clubs started and getting them registered with the GCN & GW's school league community.

It's not a case of grabbing new customers and then dumping them.

All my local GWs still have a regular gaming night for vet gamers as well as allocated times for those new to the game.
I've never had a problem over the past 10+ years gaming in GW stores- nromally get a game in a week on a gaming night.

 Lorizael wrote:
Chatting to my local manger he says that GW want to create "independant hobbyists". It's meant to be part of a manager's responsibility to support the local gaming community by getting local & school clubs started and getting them registered with the GCN & GW's school league community.

When I talked to the manager at the brand new GW in Oklahoma City she actually said something similar. We were talking about the two independent stores that are on the opposite side of the city and her words were basically this:

"We are in a good location, but we can't compete with the space the other stores have. We can be more competitive with inventory though and have a better selection for the most part. Our goal is to make sure that the other stores have healthy leagues and communities so that more people play the game since more people playing means more sales."

The GW has better inventory than Game HQ here in town, but New World Comics has probably almost the same amount of inventory. New World gives me a 10% discount though, although it is a 30 minute drive. So for my usual purchase I will probably just skip the 30 minute drive and not save $4, so for people living on the north side of town it is probably the same.

 reiner wrote:
From what I've seen of the recently opened GW shop in Kansas City, and what's been insinuated by the operators, the small intro stores are to basically gauge market saturation and drum up interest in under served regions. My guess is that if they generate revenue they either stay or upsize at the end of the lease, or if they don't they move out.

It's actually quite the opposite. GW are downsizing their stores, moving to smaller locations and shifting their focus from being a place for veterans to come and play to being a place to draw new players into their wargames.

Just proves GW doesnt know how to run a gaming store.

If you cant play the game you dont spend money on the games. Not everyone has the space for a 6x4 table, or the time to use it.

If you bring in guys and make them feel welcome and respected they will return to you for repeat business. GW on the other hand seems to be at war with its customers and doing everything they can to alienate and cut off avenues of support.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Just proves GW doesnt know how to run a gaming store.

If you cant play the game you dont spend money on the games. Not everyone has the space for a 6x4 table, or the time to use it.

If you bring in guys and make them feel welcome and respected they will return to you for repeat business. GW on the other hand seems to be at war with its customers and doing everything they can to alienate and cut off avenues of support.

Some folk like to game in stores, I don't, and would happily impulse buy in store even if I didn't game in it

actually a store stuffed with tables can be a lot harder to browse in, especially if they allow folk to eat in it too (stale takeaway + gamer funk = nasty)

Quite unfortunate. Sucking in new people is the easiest way to make money. I'm sure MTG makes more money off the starter decks/sets than anything else, much like how D&D makes most of their money off the three core books (or nine ). I can't think of a large-scale example at the moment, but the concept is universal.

I guess GW just works for their shareholders, and what their shareholders want is PROFITS, not a good company.

Keep in mind that GW's policy is to make less money then it can as admitted at a conference recently. So driving away regular customers makes sense given this policy.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Just proves GW doesnt know how to run a gaming store.

If you cant play the game you dont spend money on the games. Not everyone has the space for a 6x4 table, or the time to use it.

If you bring in guys and make them feel welcome and respected they will return to you for repeat business. GW on the other hand seems to be at war with its customers and doing everything they can to alienate and cut off avenues of support.

Some folk like to game in stores, I don't, and would happily impulse buy in store even if I didn't game in it

Yeah, but when they're trying to hook new gamers, the best thing possible is to have people playing the game. Not demo tables, because a parent might not want to wait 30 minutes while their kid plays this strange game in a strange store with a strange grownup, but actual games being played. Someone walks in and sees a 1500pt game going between two painted armies, and if they're interested at all, it'll hook them.

The tables are advertising space, and now they're not using them to their best effect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Harriticus wrote:
Keep in mind that GW's policy is to make less money then it can as admitted at a conference recently. So driving away regular customers makes sense given this policy.

*sigh*

The point is for a gradual increase, not random spikes. This is the worst thing the trolls have latched onto, honestly.

The Gw in Belfast has gone from 2 4x4s and 1 2x1 40k into, to 2x1 for 40k intro and a 6x4, to the current 4x4 table with a 4x4 for intros. The LotRs and Fantasy have seperate tables that were never used for gaming.

They have also introduced a recommended 1500pts or under and 2hr limits. This is to help keep the games small, get more people in the small store, make it easier for the staff. Bet they'll introduce a 1-way system too.

There is a thread somewhere about it, but one of my 2 local stores (GW Poole) used to still have it's own bunker with about 16 off tables. They've now dropped this to 7 (better than many i admit) but with a max of 2 hours to be booked at a time - from open case to tidy away, people are saying it's hard to have a decent game

I still think it's unreasonable to demand that the store I buy goods in, should also provide space for me to use those goods. Being able to play for free somewhere is a privilege, not a human right.

I won't defend GW directly, I'd never defend a corporation, but in the face of all this bitterness I have to say what I mean. From my experience with my "local" GW store, at least half the people in there aren't there to buy anything. They're there to use free paints and equipment, or they're there to play games for free. I think this is way above and beyond what could be reasonably expected of a store.

When I stepped into a GW store the first time, I was extremely surprised that they had tables where people could play for free. I'm a cynical bastard, and I'd never even considered that a corporation would give something away for free. Which is what GW does when they allow you to use their stuff to play with. It's floor-space which they pay for, which is not getting used to stock the goods that they sell. I've never used their in-store tables to play a single game, not even when I started with the hobby, and not even for a demo game. I've always thought of it as a service to little kids who might not have anywhere else to play, because little kids are all I see using those tables.

Saying that not everyone has space to store a 6x4 table would have been fine, if there weren't simple ways to make the table into smaller sections. But I guess creativity doesn't come naturally to everyone. I have a 7'x4' table, weighing around 30 pounds, stored in three pieces in the trunk/boot of my car (which is a lot smaller than 7x4 I might add) and it takes up about 15 cm from the floor of the boot/trunk to the top of the table. And It doesn't even affect negatively how I use that space for other things, because the table is flatter than the floor of the boot/trunk, so it's actually easier to get things in there with the table stored there. And with a table this mobile, there's never been any problem finding a place to play. We can play at my house, my opponent's house, at my workshop, and we've even played in the corridor at a local "communal" workshop place without any problems whatsoever. All we need is a small table on which the center piece of my collapsible table will fit, and hey presto, we have a place to play.

To end this, I have to say that if I couldn't provide a space to engage in my hobby myself, I would never have taken up that hobby in the first place. I would never have depended on the charity of a corporation to engage in what I love to do. Depending on a corporation to do anything other than lining their own pockets with piles and piles of money, is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

It wouldn't be a problem, at least here in the UK at any rate, if there were any FLGS to fall back on but due to high rental costs, GW business practise and cramped, tiny retail units there really isn't an alternative for a lot of people. Places like the US are somewhat spoilt for choice; at least you have the option of a FLGS over a GW - for most gamers here in the UK, their local GW is the place they go for gaming and has long been this way. It is not unreasonable for GW to remove this facility; it is their train set after all, but you can hardly expect people to be happy about the removal of the option after such a long time. Whether people should expect GW to provide such facilities is another question entirely.

I think SgtSixkilla is painting a far too optimistic view of the "anyone can have a gaming table" issue. I will not elaborate on my own situation, but what he's describing is completely utopian and unreachable for me.

And that "I guess creativity doesn't come naturally to everyone" snark was uncalled for and mean-spirited. But I guess basic civility and a helpful attitude just doesn't come naturally to some people.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I think SgtSixkilla is painting a far too optimistic view of the "anyone can have a gaming table" issue. I will not elaborate on my own situation, but what he's describing is completely utopian and unreachable for me.

Of course, I don't know what your situation is like, but if you have access to a table (almost any size), which I expect most people do unless they're homeless (not meant in a disrespectful way, I've been there), and a wall to lean 2'x4'x15" of mdf (which isn't very big), then you have a place to play and store the table.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
And that "I guess creativity doesn't come naturally to everyone" snark was uncalled for and mean-spirited. But I guess basic civility and a helpful attitude just doesn't come naturally to some people.

It is true, though, even if it may seem snarky and mean. Not everyone is a creative person. I know several people in this hobby who are definitively not creative people, they're more theoretically minded (number people). Just as your comment on civility and helpfulness is completely and utterly true.

The snarkiness of my comment was borne off the fact that some people here are unreasonably bitter towards GW for no longer giving them free stuff. (Even though most GW stores STILL gives away free stuff.)

 Reaver83 wrote:
There is a thread somewhere about it, but one of my 2 local stores (GW Poole) used to still have it's own bunker with about 16 off tables. They've now dropped this to 7 (better than many i admit) but with a max of 2 hours to be booked at a time - from open case to tidy away, people are saying it's hard to have a decent game

They are also closed Monday and Tuesday now as well as closing an hour earlier on the gaming night. This means for those in employment there is generally only 7 two hour slots useable. This was a gaming night that used to regularly attract 40 gamers, now can only realistically accommodate 14.

I certainly can't disagree with those that believe in a reduction of custom with a reduction of service. Personally I'm going to start heading over to Christchurch to start playing infinity again and maybe get started on malifaux as I will have the option to play alternate games there. From exclusively spending about £3-4000 a year in GW Poole that's gone down to about £4-500 this year mostly due to reduced motivation towards playing those games as the community has been diminished and doesn't inspire me as it once did.

 -Loki- wrote:
The point is for a gradual increase, not random spikes. This is the worst thing the trolls have latched onto, honestly.

Gradual decline to be precise, at least in sales and customers.

And IF the target customer is the teen, not all have room for 4x6 feet gaming tables plus money for terrain.
If a random person sees a bottle of milk, they know how to use it. If they see a plastic or resin miniature, they don't. Downsizing the meager remnants of marketing GW has, might free more money for the shareholders, but hurts GW sales.

 SgtSixkilla wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I think SgtSixkilla is painting a far too optimistic view of the "anyone can have a gaming table" issue. I will not elaborate on my own situation, but what he's describing is completely utopian and unreachable for me.

Of course, I don't know what your situation is like, but if you have access to a table (almost any size), which I expect most people do unless they're homeless (not meant in a disrespectful way, I've been there), and a wall to lean 2'x4'x15" of mdf (which isn't very big), then you have a place to play and store the table.

You also need opponents, I don't know about the rest of you but I'd get pretty bored playing the same 2 friends over and over.
Having a FLGS that actually has gaming space means you can go down and simply meet someone and play, where as the only real option if you can't play there is to try and start a club, which means finding (and paying for) space and then people to fill it *or* inviting randoms you meet at your gaming store home for a game.

Games workshop newcastle has closed its upstairs gaming area saying they cant supervise it and the shop at the same time

to be honest....why complain , there a buisness , they have to maximise retail space , there is no law for them to provide a gaming space.

Lets face it , GW is not aimed at anyone other than 10-14 yr old kids now, we are hooked then , then we grow up and form opinions , get mortgages etc , but still equate our games playing to when we were kids and 'better times'.

Find a online retailer (most of the worlds commerce is going that way) , find a church hall with a gaming group...enjoy 'the hobby' that way.

I did (and discovered more than 40k)...

 Synthetik wrote:

Find a online retailer (most of the worlds commerce is going that way) , find a church hall with a gaming group...enjoy 'the hobby' that way.

I did (and discovered more than 40k)...

Lol. This makes it sound like you caught religion.

Shops will be getting smaller because they're not making money. There's no 'grand plan,' all that talk of restructuring the customer approach is front of shop bumpf to conceal downsizing due to losses - something which is anathema to retail chains, for some reason. Running a shop in high street retail is massively expensive, and is growing more and more so in the UK. Having the kind of floor space required to host gaming tables costs a fortune. People are buying online more and more, whether from GW or 3rd parties, so the shops sales are going to look worse and worse when compared to their overheads. When you get this situation in retail, a company will do three things: reduce range, reduce staffing, and reduce floorspace.

Can GW afford to subsidise large shops to run at a loss? Maybe, I don't know, I haven't seen their finances. As it stands, they've clearly decided that it's not viable. It's a real shame, and something to get upset about, but it's just the reality of high street retail today. A lot of trades are going to be going away from brick and mortar.

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
Saying that not everyone has space to store a 6x4 table would have been fine, if there weren't simple ways to make the table into smaller sections. But I guess creativity doesn't come naturally to everyone.

So how small a set of sections would I have to make a table to fit where I live then?

To get a job I have had to move 150 miles or so away from the property that I own and in which my 84 year old mother is living. To get close to my job I am renting a place within walking distance, but that place is a converted garage no more than about 8 feet wide by 12 feet long. Inside that area is a shower, wash basin, toilet, fridge, microwave, my PC, a small chair to sit and watch the TV and a 3" by 3" table for the TV, my PS2, computer keyboard and mouse. There is a small collapsible chair for use when I am at the table. There is just enough space left on the table for me to do a bit of modelling providing I don't use too many paints at a time, or eat something. My 'bedroom' is above this in the apex of the roof and has enough space for a matress on the floor, a small table where I put a few models, a light, and a small portable DVD player as entertainment up there. My clothes are stored upstairs, along with anything I don't immediately need. (finished models, any model projects I am not immediately working on, etc)

I have lived this way for over 18 months and I will continue to do so as long as it ensures I have a roof over my head, my mother does not need to worry about having to leave her friends, and the both of us can eat enough. I cannot have my own gaming table under these circumstances, so my options are somewhat limited. Yes, I could probably store your 2'x4'x15" MDF table, but what would be the point when I definately do not have the space to make use of it?

So YES, not EVERYONE has the space to store a table, and there is no point storing a table if you don't have the space to USE IT! So there are more people than in your philosophy that rely more on GW tables than you need to. I don't want to feel like a leech asking friends to let me play at their house all the time, and whilst GW had tables to play on, yes I used them. Not a heck of a lot, but I did use them. Now with the prevalent GW attitude, and the reduction of thier store's utility to me, I might as well do whatever painting and modelling I want to do where I live, so there is less pressure on me to spend on GW products. (And having discovered "Dreamforge Games", I don't think I am going to miss them either!)

This is the problem companies wanting to impress the shareholders don't seem to understand. Many companies in trouble cut their advertising budget and their R&D budget, as they can see large amounts of money going into these departments and not a lot coming out. The problem is, if you cut your Research and Developement, you don't have the next generation product that everyone else is going to bring out - you've shot yourself in the foot. If you cut your advertising budget, then you don't bring in as many new customers, your old customers moan that they could have spent more money with you if only you'd told them that "New Product 'X' " was coming out.

By cutting down on the things GW have supplied for years, they are slowly cutting their own throats. They may think they are too big to be affected much, but the recent problems with "Comet" here in the UK, and the loss of the high street staple "Woolworth" a few years ago, ought to be giving them second thoughts. Too many companies are currently concentrating too much on gaining new customers without keeping hold of the ones they have. Customer loyalty is no longer a win situation for the customer, so they are learning to swap at the drop of a hat, and the individuals will be the only ones to win that game.

 htj wrote:
Shops will be getting smaller because they're not making money. There's no 'grand plan,' all that talk of restructuring the customer approach is front of shop bumpf to conceal downsizing due to losses - something which is anathema to retail chains, for some reason. Running a shop in high street retail is massively expensive, and is growing more and more so in the UK. Having the kind of floor space required to host gaming tables costs a fortune. People are buying online more and more, whether from GW or 3rd parties, so the shops sales are going to look worse and worse when compared to their overheads. When you get this situation in retail, a company will do three things: reduce range, reduce staffing, and reduce floorspace.

Can GW afford to subsidise large shops to run at a loss? Maybe, I don't know, I haven't seen their finances. As it stands, they've clearly decided that it's not viable. It's a real shame, and something to get upset about, but it's just the reality of high street retail today. A lot of trades are going to be going away from brick and mortar.

And yet GW are still opening stores almost every month in the UK and around the world.
They can't be doing that bad in the retail chain if they're expanding.
Going to 5 day opening must be more than just cutting costs too. I'm sure it does cut costs (bills & staff, not rent..) but also I'd imagine there would be a small loss of revenue too.

 Lorizael wrote:

 htj wrote:
Shops will be getting smaller because they're not making money. There's no 'grand plan,' all that talk of restructuring the customer approach is front of shop bumpf to conceal downsizing due to losses - something which is anathema to retail chains, for some reason. Running a shop in high street retail is massively expensive, and is growing more and more so in the UK. Having the kind of floor space required to host gaming tables costs a fortune. People are buying online more and more, whether from GW or 3rd parties, so the shops sales are going to look worse and worse when compared to their overheads. When you get this situation in retail, a company will do three things: reduce range, reduce staffing, and reduce floorspace.

Can GW afford to subsidise large shops to run at a loss? Maybe, I don't know, I haven't seen their finances. As it stands, they've clearly decided that it's not viable. It's a real shame, and something to get upset about, but it's just the reality of high street retail today. A lot of trades are going to be going away from brick and mortar.

And yet GW are still opening stores almost every month in the UK and around the world.
They can't be doing that bad in the retail chain if they're expanding.
Going to 5 day opening must be more than just cutting costs too. I'm sure it does cut costs (bills & staff, not rent..) but also I'd imagine there would be a small loss of revenue too.

No, that's not necessarily the case. Opening mini stores like this is a significantly smaller financial burden, and most likely sees them yield a positive return on their investment. The larger shops would be the ones losing them money, in the main, and smaller shops like this may well retain profitability.

Staffing costs are by a long, long way the greatest costs in retail. Generally speaking, when you have a declining sales situation in a shop you're better off closing certain days that are generally non-profitable, early mid-week days are normally the culprits, and save considerable on staffing costs. Sure, there's sometimes a hit in the revenue, but generally your customers will adapt and just remember to not come in on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, for example.

Finally, it's worth noting that they may well not be announcing closures, and only openings. That's just a stray thought though, I don't read WD so I don't know.

I like this. GW stores become the retail space, independent retailers and garage clubs can become the heart of the weekly game play.

We don't have a "GW" store within 150 miles (driving distance) and yet have a thriving and strong 40k community, many of us with multiple armies and having to choose which club to attend every week instead of trying to find a place to play.

Conrad..
Comet and woolworths went out of buisness as they couldnt adapt and survive in the modern age in competing with internet sellers.

Woolworths died because of Amazon , no bricks n mortar costs , meant prices could be kept down by the sellers , and not needing rates/rent etc.

GW arent in the position like them , but they need to make sure there buisness going forwards maximises profit , its there legal duty to do so for there shareholders/owners.

They will survive , they are the market leaders and the nature of this industry is unlike Comet or Woolworths , its selling one narrow line of consumer items ie rulebooks and toy figures , it doesnt have a natural competitor.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SgtSixkilla wrote:

 Synthetik wrote:

Find a online retailer (most of the worlds commerce is going that way) , find a church hall with a gaming group...enjoy 'the hobby' that way.

I did (and discovered more than 40k)...

Lol. This makes it sound like you caught religion.

Praise the Emporer

I'm not too terribly upset by this. Since they decided to take the Forge World IA's out of the G.W. stores I only ever go there to buy Finecast. And that's just so i can open in up in the store, then have to dig through four more boxes.

I don't see my local shop pushing people out. In fact, although small, they've been trying to encourage return customers via painting competition and hosting player run leagues. I don't get the feeling my local GW is trying to exclude anyone, especially since some of the best salesmen are other players.

GW stores have never been great places to play. During store hours it's full of "regulars", who are always dicks, and during the game nights the tables are too small.

Ah, not completely true! Go back 15+ years and they were absolutely awesome - may not have sold anything like the amount of goods, when mums coming into the store were put off by the death metal playing and the long-haired types eyeing them suspiciously from the dark recesses in the corner, but the were an incredibly cool place to be. But, that was some time before company directives started arriving asking staff to tuck their shirts into their pants..

 Pacific wrote:
Ah, not completely true! Go back 15+ years and they were absolutely awesome - may not have sold anything like the amount of goods, when mums coming into the store were put off by the death metal playing and the long-haired types eyeing them suspiciously from the dark recesses in the corner, but the were an incredibly cool place to be. But, that was some time before company directives started arriving asking staff to tuck their shirts into their pants..

Those were the best days when you were encouraged to bring in you armies and play, they even sold off cheap blister packs on the gaming nights sometimes.

Then 4 or so years later the regulars were told they were no longer aloud to play in the shops in our area, so we all stopped playing....

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
There was a store opened up in the suburbs, a few years ago, when they were semi-interested in doing business in French. They found out that parents would just dump their kids there with no money and come pick them up hours later.

Smart parents, finding free babysitters.

We had this issue in the states at the GW store where I play at. Its not much of an issue now, but we all knew what was going on. Parents think of it as free babysitters. Honestly, I wouldnt leave my 7 year old with a store full of adults in their mid 20's for 7 hours, but thats just me...

Also, our store is still as big as it was a few years ago(roughly 4 gaming tables and 1 demo table, painting area was halved). Only open 40ish hours or so a week now that our staff went from three down to one, but its still a pretty good place.

 Dannygee wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
There was a store opened up in the suburbs, a few years ago, when they were semi-interested in doing business in French. They found out that parents would just dump their kids there with no money and come pick them up hours later.

Smart parents, finding free babysitters.

We had this issue in the states at the GW store where I play at. Its not much of an issue now, but we all knew what was going on. Parents think of it as free babysitters.

This is by no means exclusive to GW stores. I used to work in a large toystore where people would do the same thing... drop the kids, and then go and do their shopping in the big mall across the road.

If the kids were there for longer than an hour or so, we used to just call the police to come and collect them.

I would never do that to my kids,
What Incentive does the 20yr old player have from stopping your kid from sticking his tongue in the Electrical Socket?
But if i owned a store, any kid that would get dropped off would get free Red Bull until the parents Arrived.

Giving unsupervised gamestore kids Red Bull is NOT a good idea

Indeed. Just give them a red bull shot on the way out

 Kroothawk wrote:
Giving unsupervised gamestore kids Red Bull is NOT a good idea

Advertising that you will could be though.

Given how paranoid some parents are about how 'hyper' their kids get if they are given any sugary drinks or sweets, how about advertising a Red Bull/Lucozade cocktail and plenty of Jelly Babies. Parents wouldn't dare leave their unattended kids in your store then. And the few that do, give the little darlings a handful of Flying Saucers on the way out.

Small heads up: the local 1-man-GW stores in the two cities I play in now removed all gaming tables and replaced them with 1 testplay table for each system.

When asked about it, one of them told me that they'd try to get more people in the hobby in order to "create more diversity" among the frequent gamers. I told him that I'd rather go in a store with a bunch of people playing, similar to choosing the restaurant where more people would be having dinner and received the answer that they'd still host tournaments for the "older" players.

feth you GW. Seriously.

It'll be good for the hobby in the end. Resulting in more independent stores starting up, and people playing there or in their own homes, and thus not having to only play GW games / with GW models.

LULZ

That is all.

I love this!

As an American, I don't think this is a big deal. Most people have their enough space to play.

If they tried to do this in Asia (Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan) where people tend to have smaller apartments and at least in Japan I know there is a bit of a weirdness about inviting people to one's place, it could well kill the hobby.

But the people who should really worry are not the players, but the shareholders. This move, unless it's accompanied by big changes we haven't heard about yet, is directly at odds with what GW's stores are supposedly intended for. I would be suspicious of the company's immediate financial health if they have to walk back their claims about what their stores are for. I'd also be worried about their long-term financial health, because without making their stores a place that new people feel comfortable to be long-term, how are they going to advertise?

Oh, and as a teacher, I totally support students having a model club or a gaming club, but the moment a company like GW approached my school to create a Warhammer club, I'd recommend their products be banned from the school. There's something very nefarious with trying to tie such a nakedly money-grubbing company into education, and any game that requires students to plonk down hundreds of dollars before they can even play is not a game that deserves an endorsement by teachers.

I think the intent of their stores is to introduce folks to the hobby- so not having space to game at beyond an intro game seems to fit with their current plans (whether they are wise or not, remains to be seen, I think).

I find it weird to see a gaming stores practices compared to a grocery store! kind of...completely different...

To me, I have nowhere to play. I don't have the space for a table, the local store doesn't stock anything GW nor does it have tables to play it
the one back home did...but no one round there played, Magic was the big thing
so I gotta go to Toronto, but if it was one of those tiny stores, then I'm out of a hobby
I don't get involved in groups and I am not in school, I go to the GW's to play, I had a sort of loyalty to them once upon a time...
If I was a newbie right now, and bought a starter set and couldn't play in the store, it would be a total waste of money, and I'd just sell it for Magic cards.
A game like this, you need intensive to buy it, its not like food where you need to buy it
such a high priced, specialty thing like this, especially with a game attached (and you're in it for said game) why should I buy it?!
Not everyone has the good fortune of a club or FLGS, sometimes GW is all you have...

Why doesnt GW go the other Miniature makers policy. Close their stores and focus on selling in Independents.

I'm almost 40, I used to play when Rogue Trader was new, had a big group of friends that played together. I took a 20 year break. I don't talk to my friends from back then, the ones that are still alive. Part of the reason I got back into the game is that there's a GW store close to me, that has a large group of guys who play there regularly. If it wasn't for that store, I would have no one to play with.

Luckily for me, there's also a Bunker store 20 minutes up the road, where I can play if I need to.

 Testify wrote:
GW stores have never been great places to play. During store hours it's full of "regulars", who are always dicks, and during the game nights the tables are too small.

The GW stores in my area are the only place to play, and from what I can see, are actually good places to play. The store I play at with my sons has 6 tables, plenty of terrain and a great community.

As much as I hate to defend GW, I can see why they are doing it. They are a store and business therefore the shops are there to sell their products, end of. As for people saying they have no where to play, would you buy a video game if you had no console to play it on? Same principal really, why buy a game that needs a certain amount of space to play if you don't have access to anywhere big enough?

Mick

The game designers have left the building.... Now the only thing left are Yes Men and Shills.

The reason behind this is so the beancounters can save money in rent, closing fees, and wasted stock by being proactive.

Then when the inevitable "Stock dividend" comes up, they just have to pack a van with a couple of boxes and pay out in closed store profits. No muss no fuss. No reason to develop a community when they are only interested in profits now.




It's been working for them for years, why not streamline the process?


GW as a game company is dead, they just don't know it yet. Now they are "The HHHobby"

Between the bang up job with the pycho price hikes/ gouges, the low quality products, and this- GW is done. Only thing keeping them afloat is thier past, and peoples gullability that they will get thier head out of thier fourth point and start making games again.


If they tell you it's raining enough times, you might even believe it.

GW is offering a shrewd strategy here.

Cutting payroll, expenses, "focusing on their core businesses" are all signs they are looking to maximize profits.

For them, that may be a good thing as it means more money to add more boutique stores around the country.

And its a rather clever strategy to let LFGS and independent retailers house the games that people are supposed to play as it means their retailers can focus on selling and demonstrating rather than playing.

They've been systematically trying to destroy their own hobby for years, like their big push in the late 90s/early 00s to open stores right across from independent retailers, drive them out of business, then close their own store and leave the local community sifting through the ashes.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Why doesnt GW go the other Miniature makers policy. Close their stores and focus on selling in Independents.

Because if they jump straight from 'Having our own stores is the best way of bringing new people into the hobby!' to 'Our stores are unprofitable! We must close them down for the good of the hobby!' the shareholders might get restless...

 WarOne wrote:

And its a rather clever strategy to let LFGS and independent retailers house the games that people are supposed to play as it means their retailers can focus on selling and demonstrating rather than playing.

Uhm, if people play at their FLGS that often offer a discout on GW stuff, why would they buy at GW?

 Sigvatr wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

And its a rather clever strategy to let LFGS and independent retailers house the games that people are supposed to play as it means their retailers can focus on selling and demonstrating rather than playing.

Uhm, if people play at their FLGS that often offer a discout on GW stuff, why would they buy at GW?

To quote the GW manager at the store 5 miles down from my house:

"We often have a better selection and we are closer to people in this side of the city. They can drive 5 minutes and get what they want right now instead of having to drive 30 minutes or waiting to order things online."

 d-usa wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

And its a rather clever strategy to let LFGS and independent retailers house the games that people are supposed to play as it means their retailers can focus on selling and demonstrating rather than playing.

Uhm, if people play at their FLGS that often offer a discout on GW stuff, why would they buy at GW?

To quote the GW manager at the store 5 miles down from my house:

"We often have a better selection and we are closer to people in this side of the city. They can drive 5 minutes and get what they want right now instead of having to drive 30 minutes or waiting to order things online."

Those people (assuming they exist) are either...not...so...thoughtful...or, at the very least, responsible for why GW became such a huge, steaming pile of hot dogs...auce.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

And its a rather clever strategy to let LFGS and independent retailers house the games that people are supposed to play as it means their retailers can focus on selling and demonstrating rather than playing.

Uhm, if people play at their FLGS that often offer a discout on GW stuff, why would they buy at GW?

To quote the GW manager at the store 5 miles down from my house:

"We often have a better selection and we are closer to people in this side of the city. They can drive 5 minutes and get what they want right now instead of having to drive 30 minutes or waiting to order things online."

Those people (assuming they exist) are either...not...so...thoughtful...or, at the very least, responsible for why GW became such a huge, steaming pile of hot dogs...auce.

Really?

"Have more inventory closer to your house" is the reason why GW became such a huge, steaming pile of hot dogs...auce?

I admit she has a point with that reasoning.

I could drive 30 minutes to either of my FLGS and get what I want for maybe 10% less. So if I am picking up a $40 box I save $4. It's a 46 mile round trip, so I will use up 1.5 gallons of gas at $3/gallon, so now I am spending an extra $0.50 on the same box, and I am spending 60 minutes in a car instead of 10. Of course if I get to my FLGS and they don't have the box in stock then I am just out of luck.

Or I could order online, save 20-25% (small part of those savings are cancelled by shipping) and get my stuff 3-4 days later. So lets say I take the same $40 box, save 20% ($8) and pay shipping ($5) and I end up saving a whole $3.

Or I could get in my car, and be back at my house in 15 minutes holding the box I wanted that I got at the GW that is 5 miles from my house. Because they decided to put a store in the busiest shopping district in Central Oklahoma, on the opposite side of town of the two established stores.

There have been plenty of times when I was putting something together or painting something and I realized "dang, I need this" and had to waste over an hour of my time to drive to the opposite side of town. This will be the time that GW will be the better choice for me. If I plan on making a big order I will turn to the Warstore. If I play I will play in my garage or at either of the two stores with tables in my city, and I don't have to worry about having somebody breathe down my neck trying to sell me something.

Use a bike?

I fully agree with you about that "dang!" experience, had that too sometimes.

I don't blame you or anyone doing so...it's your choice after all and I don't want to limit anyone in his or her choices. I just wanted to say that if you do so, you lose any valid reason to criticize for GW's current policy. Buying is a binary process and as long as GW makes a profit, they have the absolute legimitation to do whatever they want.

 Sigvatr wrote:

I don't blame you or anyone doing so...it's your choice after all and I don't want to limit anyone in his or her choices. I just wanted to say that if you do so, you lose any valid reason to criticize for GW's current policy. Buying is a binary process and as long as GW makes a profit, they have the absolute legimitation to do whatever they want.

So the store doesn't have anything to do with it then. Because no matter where you buy your GW product from (even second hand) at some point GW made money because buying is a binary process and they make a profit?

Ignoring the fact that you can buy stuff from a company and still be critical of them.

Not to beat this drum, but just to say it once: that's why, if their policies really bother you, vote with your wallet and support other companies.

I agree with d-usa, that it doesn't really matter where you buy their stuff, if you're buying their stuff.

Since I no longer own a single GW model, and won't be buying any, I am voting with my wallet supporting any other company I can get my hands on useful stuff from: Dreamforge, Trollforged, Kingdom Death, On The Lamb, Privateer Press, and tons of bits companies.

There's an ocean out there, folks. If you don't like the fish in one spot, try somewhere else

The most interesting thing about current trends is that GW is actually accelerating this process. By ending prize support for tournaments, and down-sizing stores, the incentive to use "all GW models" is drastically less than it was (in contrast to Privateer Press, for example). Add in the Kickstarter phenomenon, and you've got a tidal wave of new miniatures options hitting, and it will definitely be cutting into GW's bottom line.

The other fascinating thing about this time period, though, is that The Hobbit bubble is going to strongly mask this effect. Meaning, GW corporate might not even realize (or admit to shareholders) or take action until 4-5 years from now to reverse the trend. And by then, it will be too late!

I will link to this post at that time and brag to myself (although I know noone else will care, and many people are seeing this writing on the wall).

Change is coming, and what's more, accelerated by GW's own policies with their stores and tournaments! It's going to be good for miniature gaming, I think, and I am very much looking forward to it.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Use a bike?

I believe he just mentioned a 46 mile round trip. that's 74km. Now I like cycling as much as the next guy but that's (1) an exercise which will take 5 hours, instead of <1 and (2) something to only do in just the right weather.
And really? spending half a day to save $3? Good heavens man, I'm a student and my time is **cheap** to me, but that goes a wee bit too far even for my tastes

Same thing in Melbourne, they closed down 2 stores and moved them to smaller locations in more remote places. For the most part, I just go to private retailers for my wares, I find them more convenient and more cheaper. Win, win, win.

A reduction in playing space will hurt GW imho. Players are more likley to pay out the big money directly to GW, at no discount, if they play and congregate at stores that do not allow surrogate models and have excellent terrain.

Let's not forget if people game in the store they are there longer and are more likely to impulsively buy something.

This move is excellent for independent gaming stores and I therefore entirely approve.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Let's not forget if people game in the store they are there longer and are more likely to impulsively buy something.

I suspect that really isn't true, or that they buy so little as to make it not worth the extra space and staff time it takes to have and monitor a game area.

CptJake wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Let's not forget if people game in the store they are there longer and are more likely to impulsively buy something.

I suspect that really isn't true, or that they buy so little as to make it not worth the extra space and staff time it takes to have and monitor a game area.

Having worked for GW it is definately true, people that pop in to make a purchase get what they came for and leave with what they came for and generally nothing else. It's far easier to tip someone into splashing out on a new unit or army when they are actively engaged in gaming or painting instore.

 d-usa wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

I don't blame you or anyone doing so...it's your choice after all and I don't want to limit anyone in his or her choices. I just wanted to say that if you do so, you lose any valid reason to criticize for GW's current policy. Buying is a binary process and as long as GW makes a profit, they have the absolute legimitation to do whatever they want.

So the store doesn't have anything to do with it then. Because no matter where you buy your GW product from (even second hand) at some point GW made money because buying is a binary process and they make a profit?

Ignoring the fact that you can buy stuff from a company and still be critical of them.

The profit GW makes from second hand buying is precisely 0,00€ / $.

Sure, you can be critical of a company despite buying their stuff...as stated before, that's your basic right. The thing is that GW just does not give a flying cra....nberry about your opinion then. You buy, you like it. That's what gets up to them. That's what they get out of it. If your sentence would be "I buy it, but..." they stop after reading "I buy it".

I do not want to invalidate your opinion. I do not want to and I cannot do so either. It's your valid opinion. It's just that GW doesn't care.

Vote with your wallet. There's nothing else.

And thinking that GW gets 0,00€ / $ from second hand purchases is being delusional.

 d-usa wrote:
And thinking that GW gets 0,00€ / $ from second hand purchases is being delusional.

Tell me how they make any profit of second hand sales.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
And thinking that GW gets 0,00€ / $ from second hand purchases is being delusional.

Tell me how they make any profit of second hand sales.

I believe it may be due to the potential whatever cash the seller gets from selling an army on eBay for example will be used to buy GW products first hand.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
And thinking that GW gets 0,00€ / $ from second hand purchases is being delusional.

Tell me how they make any profit of second hand sales.

I believe it may be due to the potential whatever cash the seller gets from selling an army on eBay for example will be used to buy GW products first hand.

That's an assumption. I'm being fully rational here. What if someone just quit the hobby and wants to make a few bucks? What if he decided to pick up another system? All at least equally valid assumptions...and I am not arguing based on assumptions.

Even if someone would do so, GW still does not make any profit of the trade itself. Let's look at another example.

Someone sells his collection of beer bottles on ebay and uses the money he therefore makes to buy GW miniatures. Has GW then made a profit of those beer bottles?

I get his point. It's just that it's based on uncertain assumptions and, if you're precise about it, it's not correct.

And yours is based on the uncertain assumptions that the person you are giving your money to when buying second hand is not going to turn around and pass the money on to GW which he wouldn't have been able to do if you didn't buy the old stuff.

If you want to boycot the evil GW, then boycot them. Don't play their rules or models at all. For all you know some poor soul sees you enjoying a game and then spends his hard earned money on GW...

Edit: This whole discussion about "spending money on anything other than 2nd hand GW products only encourages the evil corporate monster" is pretty off-topic and has nothing to do with this thread, so I'm going to wrap it up.

GW opened a new store in Putney, but its closed whenever I've walked past so haven't really been in there.

Bit strange opening one in Putney when they closed the Richmond store a couple of years ago. Same thing happened just over the river - Hammersmith was closed, then they opened one up in Chiswick.

Still not sure what the moral outrage is supposed to be about. GW is looking to cut some overhead costs. Since sacrifickng production or distribution is out of the question, why not downsize the stores? Less staff, less rent, and fewer loiterers in the store making them unfriendly places smelling vaguely of cheese and BO?

Raise entry costs + lower support -> more profit for shareholders this year and maybe next!

What support? Every employee of GW is clearly at most a corporate raider and at least a complete idiot. According to page after page of threads, they are unfriendly places where models are carefully weighed for GW content. What is the point of worrying since GW stores are universally reviled by everyone?

 d-usa wrote:
And yours is based on the uncertain assumptions that the person you are giving your money to when buying second hand is not going to turn around and pass the money on to GW which he wouldn't have been able to do if you didn't buy the old stuff.

If you want to boycot the evil GW, then boycot them. Don't play their rules or models at all. For all you know some poor soul sees you enjoying a game and then spends his hard earned money on GW...

Edit: This whole discussion about "spending money on anything other than 2nd hand GW products only encourages the evil corporate monster" is pretty off-topic and has nothing to do with this thread, so I'm going to wrap it up.

Incorrect and furthermore, you're jumping to (false) conclusions. Where exactly did I say that I assume what the person who sells stuff on ebay is going to do? I merely pointed out your logical flaw. I am fully rational here.

Person sells his / her miniatures at ebay. Person gains money. GW makes no profit.

That is the only correct logical conclusion here. Everything else, especially what might happen with the profit, is fully open to speculation and not as logical as you claim it to be.

Furthermore, from a mod, I'd expect you not to "wrap it up" by mocking the other user. It's highly unprofessional and rude. I do agree, though, that we should not elaborate on this further. I keep my rational point of view, you keep your point of view, we agree to disagree. Move on.

Regarding the original topic:

Again, you miss my point by jumping to wrong conclusions. There's nothing like an "evil corporate monster". I fully believe in capitalism. I do not blame GW for anything. They do seem to develop a very customer-unfriendly attitude when it comes to long-time players - e.g. the downsizing of stores / removing the ability to play in a "hobby centre". Keep in mind they still call it "hobby centres", not "(retail) stores". But they still make a profit. Seemingly, still people buy their stuff. Thus there is no reason to do anything else. Everything that GW does is the customer's fault as they / we keep buying GW products. The only thing a company will react to are sinking / bad sales. As this is not the case, GW is free of any guilt. If downsizing stores raises their profit - do it. Let's see how it turns out. If profit stays the same / increases, it was the right decision and people embrace the move. If it lowers, GW might reconsider their decision. Either way, everyone wins.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Furthermore, from a mod, I'd expect you not to "wrap it up" by mocking the other user. It's highly unprofessional and rude.

Who's the mod? And I don't think I was being mocking. If it sounded like that it was not my intention.

 d-usa wrote:

If you want to boycot the evil GW, then boycot them. Don't play their rules or models at all.

This. Unless you are buying from someone that is dumping his army, never to return to the folds of GW, you're still supporting GW.

I'm fine with the mini stores. I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've been in an actual GW store (3 times). An FLGS? That many in the past month, and I don't play in stores.

However, their policy of no longer supporting FLGS that run tournaments with prize support and their complete dismissal of their own tournaments is a huge failure on their part. Why would you spite the game stores that are drawing crowd to play your game? That's completely asinine.

Edit: DCM is not MOD.

What attracted myself and one of my Family intitially , and was responsible in the main for the fairly large amount of money spent by the two of us on GW was the older system of having gaming tables , a regular clientele of fellow gamers , and multiple enthusiastic staff .
It used to be exciting and a buzz ( notwithstanding the occasion jerks ) and encouraged multiple army / system collecting .

We are very much Post -GW for some time , and if we were to freshly discover GW now , things would be so different ,

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Still not sure what the moral outrage is supposed to be about.

You appear to have posted in the wrong thread, because there is no 'moral outrage' in this one.

 d-usa wrote:
If you want to boycot the evil GW, then boycot them. Don't play their rules or models at all. For all you know some poor soul sees you enjoying a game and then spends his hard earned money on GW...

Again with this nonsense. Why does disliking GW mean you have to stop playing? Not using the stuff you already own is akin to cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I was just replying with hyperbole to the idea that I can't be critical of GW as long as I buy anything except second-hand GW parts.

A few posts before that there should be a post where I say that you can play and buy and still be critical of their actions and decisions which is my stand on things.

 d-usa wrote:
A few posts before that there should be a post where I say that you can play and buy and still be critical of their actions and decisions which is my stand on things.

Fair enough. Conceeded. I only saw the quoted text.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Raise entry costs + lower support -> more profit for shareholders this year and maybe next!

there is no raised entry cost. i see it as cheap compared to how it used to be.

back in the mid-late 90s (when i was a kid starting out) if you wanted assault marines they came in a blister pack of i think it was 1 model for 9-11 bucks? (they counted the marine and the jump pack as a seperate minis)

if you wanted death company they came in a box of 10, all metal for 50 bucks. jump packs not included, they were sold in blister packs of three for 9 bucks, do the math.

you were forced to build squads from metal blister packs, 2 models per blister for 10 bucks. same for fantasy, bretonnia men at arms came 2 per blister, there was no plastics for most stuff. have fun building a huge block of infantry at those prices. 65 dollar metal dragon anyone?

i think you get my point. nowadays i could buy an awesome space marine army online for 300 bucks. the models come with OPTIONS, and the models are generally SO much better.

the hobby only gets expensive if you want like 5000+ points with tons of forgeworld.

yeah I started just after that sort of stuff was going away, things were still pricy but it was easier in some ways to make an army
infantry boxes were $32 (on average, sometimes a little less)
codexes were 20, 15 for the marine little ones (30 for the 3.5 chaos one)
i remember jump packs were sold in these weird bags, command was always separate from the metal boxes
and the starter set came with a full sized rule book, and the whole thing was 120 (i never bought it lol)
most terrain was home made, I think GW had a few things, mostly trees, every store's terrain looked vastly different, and I liked that
oh how times change...

it was kind of horrible. a single metal infantry block in fantasy could run you 100-200 dollars.

i dont understand all this price whining. these kids are spoiled nowadays lol.

yes, the hobbit is a rip off. dont buy it. move on.

Whenever i see threads like this i am thankful i only live 20 mins drive away from Warhammer World.

I have only played a couple of games in my local GW store (Derby). last i checked though they still do a games night every Thursday with 3 or 4 games tables out.

on normal days though i think they just have 2 demo tables and a painting station.



On the issue pf price, some things are better now. I had a necron army before the new 'dex came out. Back then you could only get Immortals in blisters at £6 each. So the current price for a set of 5 is actualyl pretty good when you factor in the time and effort you save with not havign to work with metal.

kb305 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Raise entry costs + lower support -> more profit for shareholders this year and maybe next!

there is no raised entry cost. i see it as cheap compared to how it used to be.
back in the mid-late 90s (when i was a kid starting out) if you wanted assault marines they came in a blister pack of i think it was 1 model for 9-11 bucks? (they counted the marine and the jump pack as a seperate minis)
if you wanted death company they came in a box of 10, all metal for 50 bucks. jump packs not included, they were sold in blister packs of three for 9 bucks, do the math.
you were forced to build squads from metal blister packs, 2 models per blister for 10 bucks. same for fantasy, bretonnia men at arms came 2 per blister, there was no plastics for most stuff. have fun building a huge block of infantry at those prices. 65 dollar metal dragon anyone?
i think you get my point. nowadays i could buy an awesome space marine army online for 300 bucks. the models come with OPTIONS, and the models are generally SO much better.
the hobby only gets expensive if you want like 5000+ points with tons of forgeworld.

I wasn't playing that long ago: when I started, most core units were plastic already. I started in 2000. But looking at the 2004 catalog on Stuff Of Legends a pack of 3 special models (High Elf Swordmasters) were about $9, a box of 10 was $35. I remember this being an increase over the previous year when you had to guy them in sets of 3 only (now $35 for 10 instead of $36 for 12). And now they are $66 for 10, in finecast. Multiply that by 3 if you want a unit that is worth putting on the table. This is for models made in 1997.

There may have been a time when all the most common units were in metal and the change to plastic made it cheaper... but in the 13 years I've been playing, everything has gooten almost uniformly more expensive.

Especially real 'entry level' products. Codex, Rulebook, Battleforce.. have all gotten more expensive. The codex in 2004 was $20, now its $33, and soon to be $50. Its better quality, sure; but its getting to be like Ferraris: no matter how much better it is than my Lancer, it doesn't matter because its out of the price range. $50 for a rulebook is beyond what other companies are asking for the same thing.

true. Luckily both of my armies and the main rulebook hasve been updated in the last few months, so hopefully i am set for rulebooks for at least 3 years.


until the next IA book comes out with Necrons......

Local GW doesn't have veterans night anymore. Good for our newish club though!

You would think that with more people in the store playing, it would make it more likely they would buy something. Newcomers get to see games in action, and speak with the gamers there.

Let's get back to topic though aka GW's current policy of alienating actual gamers

From a marketing point of view, I am pretty torn in between whether it's a good idea or not.

On the one hand

Uhm. Wait, it actually, is as pretty dumb idea. The only advantage I can see or have seen in this thread is the relatively close proximity to GW's customers. If you're right next to a store and just want to get one box or something similar, you are more likely to quickly jump in and buy it.

a) The thing is that people will be a lot more likely to actually buy stuff at GW if they also play there. It's how our mind works. Reciprocal thinking. If one person does you a favor, you feel obligated to return that favor. Works in marketing too, all those guys trying to give you "gifts" use this exact mechanism...you got something, you feel like giving something back. Wham. You go to a GW store and play, you feel like giving something back. Buy a new box of miniatures, a new character model...anything.

b) You are just strolling through the city and pass a GW store. The current 1-man stores now offer the awesome sight of 2 people sitting on a table, painting stuff. Exciting, I know.

Imagine 2x2 people actually playing - moving their miniatures across the battlefield, raising fists, wild gestures...imagine seeing people actually having fun.

What would suck you more in?

c) What is the point of GW stores now, proximity argument left aside?

Want to know what you army might be missing? Ask on dakkadakka, warseer.com etc. and get 100x better advice than any GW employee might give you. Ye know, the same employee that counceled me to buy a few boxes of FO because "they'd smash terminator squads". Really.

Not sure on what army to start? Ask the internet.

Want to make a sizeable order? Online stores offer savings up to 30%.

While GW is well-known for knowing nothing about marketing, the development still makes me wonder what they're up to. GW pretty much shows what an effective monopoly can do.

On the other hand, I don't blame them. They seem to make a good profit and thus most customers appear to agree with their decisions - regarding the votes with their wallets because those matter, opinions just bounce off GW's thick skin.

The sad thing is that I'd be fine with even starting another army. I really like GW's work. Most models look really well and the rules are good too despite some short fallings, but in a WAAC-free environment, they work just fine. The huge and disproportional price increases along with the terrible customer policy, however, keep me from doing so. Maybe, in a few years, if I am still interested in tabletops, GW might have changed and I'll gladly go for another army. But as of now, I got my 1850 tournament Necron army. Not more, not less. And until then, GW gets 0$ from me...not because I boycot them. Just because I don't need to get more.

For alot of people a GW is the only way to get games in, personally I like that I can go down spend some money and work on a couple things while I wait to get a game in. The best part is that I can do this anytime I have free time and nearly get a game in nearly 100% of the time. I own a table but getting the boyz together isnt always possible.

GW dont seem to understand themselves, the mall stores were for recruiting and training noobs and the vets were directed towards bunkers. When they switched to desination 1 man stores they didnt lower their recruitment expectations and got pissy how they became "club houses".
All evidence Ive experienced from both working in a comic shop and for GW is that a good group of regulars is what keeps you afloat, because as long as they are happy they spend money, tell them they cant play or paint anymore and subject them to constant harassment is only going to embitter them and make them want to find other places to go. As it turns out some people dont have that option and just turn to simpler and less taxing games like MTG and Videogames.

They dont know who they are selling to anymore, the recruiter stores were obviously pointed at kids but now with no foot traffic and no reason to go in what the hell is the point of going?

Y'know, I have to say something. The club vibe can be very scary for many people. I was scared of going to 40k night for the longest time because everyone there knew everyone. Same when i started RPGs. They are right to tone down the vibe to let other people in.

There is a difference between "tone down" and nuke. If you dont have a place to play, you dont play. People shouldnt struggle to get a game in, basically this is GW unknowingly cutting into the amount a person can actually game, any day of the week I could go to a GW store and probably get a game in with a huge variety of people, now they are telling me that I schedule meetings and arrange game nights with the same couple people and do that much more work in order to enjoy the game. If I have to wait so goddamn long between games I have no reason to support or buy minis from a GW store.

 Ravenous D wrote:
There is a difference between "tone down" and nuke. If you dont have a place to play, you dont play. People shouldnt struggle to get a game in, basically this is GW unknowly cutting into the amount a person can actually game, any day of the week I could go to a GW store and probably get a game in with a huge variety of people, now they are telling me that I schedule meetings and arrange game nights with the same couple people and do that much more work in order to enjoy the game. If I have to wait so goddamn long between games I have no reason to support or buy minis from a GW store.

Good point. It all boils down to "Buy where you play" and if GW wants us to play at home...well...do the math!

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
There is a difference between "tone down" and nuke. If you dont have a place to play, you dont play. People shouldnt struggle to get a game in, basically this is GW unknowly cutting into the amount a person can actually game, any day of the week I could go to a GW store and probably get a game in with a huge variety of people, now they are telling me that I schedule meetings and arrange game nights with the same couple people and do that much more work in order to enjoy the game. If I have to wait so goddamn long between games I have no reason to support or buy minis from a GW store.

Good point. It all boils down to "Buy where you play" and if GW wants us to play at home...well...do the math!

Yep, I used to buy a bunch at my local GW despite the stupid prices because I was there and it was there and I am weak like that. Since the local GW became a closet where you can only get a <1500 game on a 4x4 table I barely get down there and instead buy from the FLGS which I get down to much more often (because full sized tables are nice) or from ebay.

kb305 wrote:
if you wanted death company they came in a box of 10, all metal for 50 bucks.

As opposed to the Death Company who are now available at the bargain price of $55 per five man box?

GW was the only way to get games in for me as they pretty much killed off most independant stores here. Now that the store has been reduced down to one man and there is a booking system in place for tables at vets night, I don't see much point going down there anymore... the store looks empty most of the time.

 d-usa wrote:
The new GW in our city only has 2 tables and is pretty crammed. It is a small store in a strip mall with just enough wall space to place all their merch.

GW's are really not "game stores", they are stores that sell a game.

Pretty much it. The very first time my friends got me to buy some 40K and get me into the hobby we went to a GW store. Good lord...How to say this:

You should have seen the look on the guy face when he realised all 4 of us where total news in the hobby, in to buy our very first stuff.
We ended up buying our stuff. What we had in mind before entering the store. If we had listened to the seller, instead of 500 pts forces, we would have ended with 1500 pts + a white dwarf each, our codexs, primer, green stuff. As soon as we paid, nothing. As if we didnt existed. He vanished in his backstore with a cold goodbye.

We never entered a GW store since that day. Avoiding them like the plague. And now your telling me these ''gaming stores'' are getting into mini stores? There's no hope... Seriously, who's going to buy in a GW store when almost any store will get you at least 5% off GW prices + a place to play + getting in touch with people who actually like the hobby and dont try to sell you any crap they can? And I dont even speak of ebay and online stores....

Mini new stores? I say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE! Please stop this folly.

I personally don't find the downsizing a problem as the closest gw store to me is at least 200miles away and that is a 3 and a half hour car trip.

The argument of playing at your house or at your opponents house IMHO is kinda BS as Everyone I know that plays is at least 50miles away from me. Plus the game gets stale and unfun very fast if you play the same army vs army each week.

I support the FLGS when I am there and can but it is also 50-60 miles away. So basically I don't usually buy anything from GW unless I really feel like supporting my store otherwise I will get it cheaper on the internet. I mean it's kinda sad when I can buy 60 models for the price of 20 on the internet. So what if I have to wait a week for my models to get here, I don't think it will kill me to not be able to get the model right there on the spot for the huge difference.

 Ravenous D wrote:
it turns out some people dont have that option and just turn to simpler and less taxing games like MTG and Videogames.

I wouldn't describe Mtg as 'simpler and less taxing' than Warhammer at all. It's very different and games are a lot shorter, but a night of gaming is fairly intensive. It actually requires quite a lot of thought both on deck building and playing the game. It's not top trumps and its not like a computer game. It also helps a lot to have a venue to play with a large pool of gamers, because it quickly gets repetitive if you're playing with the same tiny group if people. Wargames are often played successfully within a small pool of players.

Though I do find it odd to see someone describing people leaving Warhammer to go to less taxing games, when I first started on rogue trader and 2nd edition. I already see current Warhammer as being a lot less of a challenge aside from the practicality of having much larger numbers of figures people have to field. How would these gamers have managed 20 years ago?

 Kaldor wrote:

kb305 wrote:
if you wanted death company they came in a box of 10, all metal for 50 bucks.

As opposed to the Death Company who are now available at the bargain price of $55 per five man box?

And I thought it was only americans that thought there was only one curency...

In the UK gaming in store is not the norm at all, which is odd given that we have some of the smallest house sizes in the world. Much smaller than the US and anywhere in the EU.

baxta182 wrote:
Games workshop newcastle has closed its upstairs gaming area saying they cant supervise it and the shop at the same time

I also remember hearing that you can only play for an hour on the tables downstairs as well...

Someone made a FB page as well about the topic that was cool to see...

Glad I play at my FLGS at seaham now...

 Florintine Mallorean wrote:
I personally don't find the downsizing a problem as the closest gw store to me is at least 200miles away and that is a 3 and a half hour car trip.

The argument of playing at your house or at your opponents house IMHO is kinda BS as Everyone I know that plays is at least 50miles away from me. Plus the game gets stale and unfun very fast if you play the same army vs army each week.

I support the FLGS when I am there and can but it is also 50-60 miles away. So basically I don't usually buy anything from GW unless I really feel like supporting my store otherwise I will get it cheaper on the internet. I mean it's kinda sad when I can buy 60 models for the price of 20 on the internet. So what if I have to wait a week for my models to get here, I don't think it will kill me to not be able to get the model right there on the spot for the huge difference.

So how many games do you get in a month?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
it turns out some people dont have that option and just turn to simpler and less taxing games like MTG and Videogames.

I wouldn't describe Mtg as 'simpler and less taxing' than Warhammer at all. It's very different and games are a lot shorter, but a night of gaming is fairly intensive. It actually requires quite a lot of thought both on deck building and playing the game. It's not top trumps and its not like a computer game. It also helps a lot to have a venue to play with a large pool of gamers, because it quickly gets repetitive if you're playing with the same tiny group if people. Wargames are often played successfully within a small pool of players.

Though I do find it odd to see someone describing people leaving Warhammer to go to less taxing games, when I first started on rogue trader and 2nd edition. I already see current Warhammer as being a lot less of a challenge aside from the practicality of having much larger numbers of figures people have to field. How would these gamers have managed 20 years ago?

Less taxing in the sense that I dont need to put in 100 hours of labour in to build a deck, not to mention that MTG cards are actually worth something.

To be honest, I don't know why GW has its own stores anyway. Indies offer much greater service at the same price. I host painting classes at the local store just because I love the game. We've made several new players just by playing and letting them look at the game as it is being played. Made several MTG players swap games The only bad local shops are the ones that have closed because the owners were just not very nice. Most of the help at the local store are volunteers, and they work great. They genuinely love the games at the store and are always more than happy to show new players the ropes, as well as the local players being more than happy to help people get started playing.

Seeing this topic again is odd - I was just grabbing something from my local GW (not my usual place to buy anything, but I was given a gift certificate for Christmas exactly covering a box of Black Knights), and they mentioned a new store I already saw opening in the same area. They're moving out of the expensive mall, and onto the main street.

Going from a closet to a battle bunker. So I'll assume this isn't a worldwide, all bunkers going to closets trend, since my local is doing the exact opposite.

However, I have to say it's utterly hilarious. They're moving into walking distance of my FLGS. Which has about 5x the gaming space (in fact, a dedicated gaming hall) than the bunker will have. They stock a great range of GW products at a discount, as well as PP, Corvus Belli, Battlefront, Spartan Games, Mantic as well as 'boutique' ranges like Maxmini, Iron Halo, MAS, AoW, Raging Heroes etc. It has a dedicated group of while not anti-GW, pro err... 'choice'? gamers who play aa huge array of games. The owner is really good at encouraging and supporting tournaments, leagues and huge group games.

It's going to be interesting seeing what happens. Since it's walking distance, I'm going to bet my FLGS picks up GW customers rather than GW picking up my FLGS's customers, if only because they will get it cheaper than GW.

 -Loki- wrote:
Seeing this topic again is odd - I was just grabbing something from my local GW (not my usual place to buy anything, but I was given a gift certificate for Christmas exactly covering a box of Black Knights), and they mentioned a new store I already saw opening in the same area. They're moving out of the expensive mall, and onto the main street.

Going from a closet to a battle bunker. So I'll assume this isn't a worldwide, all bunkers going to closets trend, since my local is doing the exact opposite.

However, I have to say it's utterly hilarious. They're moving into walking distance of my FLGS. .

One of the GW stores in my home town is right on the opposite of the street. I mean, really. You can look at the other guys playing if you look out of the window.

 Sigvatr wrote:

One of the GW stores in my home town is right on the opposite of the street. I mean, really. You can look at the other guys playing if you look out of the window.

And I know of a Home Depot that shares a parking lot with a Lowes, just a Pet Smart between them... They both seem to do decent business somehow.

 -Loki- wrote:


It's going to be interesting seeing what happens. Since it's walking distance, I'm going to bet my FLGS picks up GW customers rather than GW picking up my FLGS's customers, if only because they will get it cheaper than GW.

Or the GW recruits new players into the hobby, sells them starter sets and teaches them how to paint and play- then in 6-12 months they move to the LGS to buy and play.
Which is pretty much the way GW want it to work...

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Florintine Mallorean wrote:
I personally don't find the downsizing a problem as the closest gw store to me is at least 200miles away and that is a 3 and a half hour car trip.

The argument of playing at your house or at your opponents house IMHO is kinda BS as Everyone I know that plays is at least 50miles away from me. Plus the game gets stale and unfun very fast if you play the same army vs army each week.

I support the FLGS when I am there and can but it is also 50-60 miles away. So basically I don't usually buy anything from GW unless I really feel like supporting my store otherwise I will get it cheaper on the internet. I mean it's kinda sad when I can buy 60 models for the price of 20 on the internet. So what if I have to wait a week for my models to get here, I don't think it will kill me to not be able to get the model right there on the spot for the huge difference.

So how many games do you get in a month?

I used to be able to get at least a game a week on game night but the group has declined in members due to the growing dislike for GW
In the last 6 months I have gotten in about 7 games and 6 of those being 2 tournaments.