Out of all the races and chapters who is the greatest close combat fighter in the galaxy?

For me its the swarmlord

This is hard to decide because there are many badasses.
Some like Mephiston and Draigo are able to make truly.... heavenly deeds with their close combat skills....

Commissar Yarrick come in you rip of gazgrull thrakas hand and cant die because all the Orks believe so hard he cant die. Thats just bad assery right their i mean really

I vote Drazahar: Master of Blades.

I ask what is more formidable than an Eldar who fought in melee and liked it (became an Exarch), started founding shrines and training other Exarches (became a Phoenix Lord), got tired of training folks who view combat as vile (vanished from the Craftworld scene) and finally made an appearance in Commorragh (by killing an ancient Hierarch without effort) and founding the Dark Eldar Incubi Shrines to train other folks who enjoy killing?

EDIT: Forgot to mention he fought for 17 continuous days against Karandras (his successor as Phoenix Lord).

I vote Drazahar: Master of Blades.

Back when GW was dropping hints that Drazahr could have been the missing Striking Scorpian Pheonix Lord, and back when Incubi funtctioned like evil Striking Scorpians I would have agreed. But now I may be inclined to actually go with Yarrick as well. I mean think about it - all it will take is for the Orks to somehow get it into their heads that he's also invincible in addition to being immortal and BAM! New Emperor right there! lol

Tycho wrote:

I vote Drazahar: Master of Blades.

Back when GW was dropping hints that Drazahr could have been the missing Striking Scorpian Pheonix Lord, and back when Incubi funtctioned like evil Striking Scorpians I would have agreed. But now I may be inclined to actually go with Yarrick as well. I mean think about it - all it will take is for the Orks to somehow get it into their heads that he's also invincible in addition to being immortal and BAM! New Emperor right there! lol

Lol, that would be amazing! but doesn't the ork psychic "i think I can" field have a "range" on it? So wouldnt Yarrick have to be constantly surrounded by multiple waaghs to have a effect that powerful? And what if the orks get bored and forget?!

Come on there is obviously only one winner here Kharn the betrayer

By showings, Kaldor Draigo. It isn't even close, IMHO.

Lol, that would be amazing! but doesn't the ork psychic "i think I can" field have a "range" on it? So wouldnt Yarrick have to be constantly surrounded by multiple waaghs to have a effect that powerful? And what if the orks get bored and forget?!

Well for the first part, you just convince them that the range on it is limitless. That's so "Orky" in it's logic that it HAS to work!lol IDK how you keep them fron distraction though ...

As far as Draigo - I could see that certainly. But I still think "Ork Emperor Yarrick" beats him every time! lol

Call me when Yarrick stops losing every fight he has with Ghazghkuull and starts romping through Khorne's Greater Daemons barehanded and in the Warp, lol.

Kharn.
Or Abaddon with his fancy sword and claw.

The Great Khan, trapped for thousands upon thousands of years as a gladiator in the dark eldar arenas has to count for something.

Kharn for me , or Yarrick

It obviously comes down to Kaldor Draigo and Mephiston. Seriously, where the hell are you guys fettng Yarrik and Kharn from? lol

Yeah Kinda has to be Kaldor Draigo, only none primarch\God being in there that is fighting off the forces of chaos single handedly... His fluff is just hilarious yet outrageous it automaticly goes to him

Drazahar is pretty badass and his fluff is legit.

I think Lukas the Trickster has everyone though. That bloodclaw battle lust topped with all his extra wargear makes him powerful, but in the case he does get bested his stasis bomb detonating and taking even the most powerful foes to the grave with him.

I think Kharn the Betrayer in the mythology of W40k, but on a game, I would say a Hive Tyrant or a Bloodthirster.

Tycho wrote:

I vote Drazahar: Master of Blades.

Back when GW was dropping hints that Drazahr could have been the missing Striking Scorpian Pheonix Lord, and back when Incubi funtctioned like evil Striking Scorpians I would have agreed. But now I may be inclined to actually go with Yarrick as well. I mean think about it - all it will take is for the Orks to somehow get it into their heads that he's also invincible in addition to being immortal and BAM! New Emperor right there! lol

They're still dropping hints that Drazhar is Arhra; read his rules sometime. Same statline as the Phoenix Lords, same set of generic rules, an 'Exarch weapon' and both 'Exarch powers' from the Incubi...

I'd vote Lelith, by the way; the only reason she can't shred anyone who ever lived in close combat is an unfortunate quirk of limited Strength and no Eternal Warrior to protect her from counterstrokes.

 Lord General Cheese wrote:
Commissar Yarrick come in you rip of gazgrull thrakas hand

When did Yarrick rip off Ghazghkull's hand? He ripped off the hand off an Ork Warboss, and has been destroyed by Ghazzy in every one of their single combat encounters. The only reason he's still alive is because he is let go for Ghazzy's own entertainment.

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned any of the Primarchs yet.

Ghazghkull of course.

Well all of the guys that are immensely better the Yarrick sure but he would just stand back up.

Swarmlord, 4 swords + Immortal and learns from his mitstakes.... kinda powerful

Since several Primarchs are either listed as missing or daemon princes.


I'm going with Angron.

I agree with MGS, Angron.

However, if primarch aren't allowed, the next best thing IMHO would be Kharn.

Horus - the only Primarch who could best Angron in hand-to-hand combat.

Ghazghkull is the true powerhouse of 40K.

No but seriously, Draigo beats down Primarchs and their guards single-handedly, and he does it without mountain-shattering physical might that is characteristic of a Primarch.

Kharn the Betrayer, or Ghazhgkull. But I may be biased

How would you even rank this? I hate questions like this.

The Red Terror.

St Celestine. The only reason she's sometimes dead at the end of a real game is time running out. Otherwise she'll just keep resurrecting and have another go at you.

Spetulhu wrote:
St Celestine. The only reason she's sometimes dead at the end of a real game is time running out. Otherwise she'll just keep resurrecting and have another go at you.

Having been reading up on Gaunt's Ghosts (just bought and read the omnibus The Saint among other non-Horus Heresy novels ) I bet Saint Sabbat would give her a good run for her money.

It is obviously Mephiston or Draigo.

Nah, its Garviel Loken. He took out Lucius with just a punch. Or Lion el'Jonson (who IMO is the most badass of the Primarchs) - he sucker punched Russ and left him out cold

EDIT: Hey, come to think of it, people just love sucker-punching Russ: first the Emperor, and then Lion

Khorne. /thread.

Lol. Nobody can defeat him. His axe will split a planet with one blow. Bye bye golden throne.

And yet he can't even manifest in reality

And yet mere splinters of him destroy entire solar systems.

Legion of Flame wrote:
And yet mere splinters of him destroy entire solar systems.

Aye, until the Grey Knights come and kick them back into the Warp. The Bloodtide in particular was quite ironic: Khorne's warriors defeated by blood magic-wielding Grey Knights, of all things

Legion of Flame wrote:
And yet mere splinters of him destroy entire solar systems.

Which one did this now?

Also, the Emperor made Khorne and all of his noisy siblings his bitch.

Gork and Mork are also more powerful.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Gork and Mork are also more powerful.

Seriously?

Twilight fanboys will go for Mephiston and Dante
Werewolves fans will go with Logan and Arjac
Ward -fanboys will go with Smurfgar and Draigo
Is there a being in the whole damn universe who can best Mary Sue ?

One word - Yriel

 Garvy wrote:
Twilight fanboys will go for Mephiston and Dante
Werewolves fans will go with Logan and Arjac
Ward -fanboys will go with Smurfgar and Draigo
Is there a being in the whole damn universe who can best Mary Sue ?

One word - Yriel

Garviel Loken

EDIT: Well, you didn't post anything about Horus Heresy era characters

 Garvy wrote:
Twilight fanboys will go for Mephiston and Dante
Werewolves fans will go with Logan and Arjac
Ward -fanboys will go with Smurfgar and Draigo
Is there a being in the whole damn universe who can best Mary Sue ?

One word - Yriel

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Or Lion el'Jonson (who IMO is the most badass of the Primarchs) - he sucker punched Russ and left him out

I feel that you've conveniently left out the context of this. Russ and the Lion fought a stalemate for over a week. And lion only knocked Russ out when Russ released how immature their fight was and started laughing at him.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Garvy wrote:
Twilight fanboys will go for Mephiston and Dante
Werewolves fans will go with Logan and Arjac
Ward -fanboys will go with Smurfgar and Draigo
Is there a being in the whole damn universe who can best Mary Sue ?

One word - Yriel

Garviel Loken

EDIT: Well, you didn't post anything about Horus Heresy era characters

Abaddadadabadon and Lucius (2nd duel) did smacked him hard...so sorry, but no...but he's a badass I' ll give you that...

 Garvy wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Garvy wrote:
Twilight fanboys will go for Mephiston and Dante
Werewolves fans will go with Logan and Arjac
Ward -fanboys will go with Smurfgar and Draigo
Is there a being in the whole damn universe who can best Mary Sue ?

One word - Yriel

Garviel Loken

EDIT: Well, you didn't post anything about Horus Heresy era characters

Abaddadadabadon and Lucius (2nd duel) did smacked him hard...so sorry, but no...but he's a badass I' ll give you that...

Did I mention surviving the hellish ruins of Istvaan III and becoming 'Cerberus'?

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Garvy wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Garvy wrote:
Twilight fanboys will go for Mephiston and Dante
Werewolves fans will go with Logan and Arjac
Ward -fanboys will go with Smurfgar and Draigo
Is there a being in the whole damn universe who can best Mary Sue ?

One word - Yriel

Garviel Loken

EDIT: Well, you didn't post anything about Horus Heresy era characters

Abaddadadabadon and Lucius (2nd duel) did smacked him hard...so sorry, but no...but he's a badass I' ll give you that...

Did I mention surviving the hellish ruins of Istvaan III and becoming 'Cerberus'?

From that moment on, he stopped being cool...IMHO

 Garvy wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Garvy wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Garvy wrote:
Twilight fanboys will go for Mephiston and Dante
Werewolves fans will go with Logan and Arjac
Ward -fanboys will go with Smurfgar and Draigo
Is there a being in the whole damn universe who can best Mary Sue ?

One word - Yriel

Garviel Loken

EDIT: Well, you didn't post anything about Horus Heresy era characters

Abaddadadabadon and Lucius (2nd duel) did smacked him hard...so sorry, but no...but he's a badass I' ll give you that...

Did I mention surviving the hellish ruins of Istvaan III and becoming 'Cerberus'?

From that moment on, he stopped being cool...IMHO

Ok...let's see...hmmm...how about...Lukas the Trickster, the only one who could have a heart ripped out by a Dark Eldar and actually laugh about it

Legion of Flame wrote:
Khorne. /thread.

Lol. Nobody can defeat him. His axe will split a planet with one blow. Bye bye golden throne.

If we are bringing up dieties now then Gork and Mork are the obvious winners.

His axe can split a planet in one blow, thats great for him, but he still cant hurt Gork and Mork who would laugh it off cause that hit wouldnt hurt them at all. Ork Codex says that a blow from any other god and the shrug it off. Yeah Khorne cant do anything then.

willhman wrote:

Legion of Flame wrote:
Khorne. /thread.

Lol. Nobody can defeat him. His axe will split a planet with one blow. Bye bye golden throne.

If we are bringing up dieties now then Gork and Mork are the obvious winners.

His axe can split a planet in one blow, thats great for him, but he still cant hurt Gork and Mork who would laugh it off cause that hit wouldnt hurt them at all. Ork Codex says that a blow from any other god and the shrug it off. Yeah Khorne cant do anything then.

They're that strong?

Lucius the Eternal. You kill him, but you become him. Either you lose, or you lose. Winning.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Lucius the Eternal. You kill him, but you become him. Either you lose, or you lose. Winning.

And if you don't have a soul/emotions/connection to the Warp ala Necrons?

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Lucius the Eternal. You kill him, but you become him. Either you lose, or you lose. Winning.

And if you don't have a soul/emotions/connection to the Warp ala Necrons?

Even fish people for that matter.

I'd go either Kharn(for sheer brutality) or Drazahar(for skill and finesse).

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

willhman wrote:

Legion of Flame wrote:
Khorne. /thread.

Lol. Nobody can defeat him. His axe will split a planet with one blow. Bye bye golden throne.

If we are bringing up dieties now then Gork and Mork are the obvious winners.

His axe can split a planet in one blow, thats great for him, but he still cant hurt Gork and Mork who would laugh it off cause that hit wouldnt hurt them at all. Ork Codex says that a blow from any other god and the shrug it off. Yeah Khorne cant do anything then.

They're that strong?

Yes there is another thread that was on here a couple of weeks ago that asked who was the strongest god out of all of them. Gork and Mork were the obvious winners.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Lucius the Eternal. You kill him, but you become him. Either you lose, or you lose. Winning.

I assume he avoids Necrons like the plague.

If you ignore Primarchs ,who can apparently destroy entire armies barehanded and make stars explode with their mind, then I say Ghazghkull. A 20 foot tall Ork in Mega Armor who also happens to be the Prophet of Gork & Mork.

Commander Boreale

 Lord General Cheese wrote:
Commissar Yarrick come in you rip of gazgrull thrakas hand and cant die because all the Orks believe so hard he cant die. Thats just bad assery right their i mean really

Ghaz still has both hands IIRC.

Yarrick has an ork Power Klaw, but i'm pretty sure it isn't Ghazzy's

He is bad-ass though Ghaz keeps him around (even after capturing him) so he'll have someone worth fighting when he comes back.

****

I checked - The power Klaw was from Warboss Ugulhard. Ugulhard snipped off his hand with the claw, then Yarrick chainsawed the klaw off and kept it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spetulhu wrote:
St Celestine. The only reason she's sometimes dead at the end of a real game is time running out. Otherwise she'll just keep resurrecting and have another go at you.

Kind if the ultimate stalker ex-girlfriend.

No matter what you do, she still keeps coming back...

Of course incarcerating her instead of killing her, and then just leaving her there might work better..

 Ascalam wrote:
Yarrick has an ork Power Klaw, but i'm pretty sure it isn't Ghazzy's

He is bad-ass though Ghaz keeps him around (even after capturing him) so he'll have someone worth fighting when he comes back.

On that note, the growing Kult of Yarrick among the Orks might eventually make him a contender for this. The more they respect his fighting prowess and believe him to be nigh-unkillable...

The power claw Yarrick carries was carried by Warboss Ugulhard, before Yarrick killed him 1-1. That feat alone makes Yarrick a good contender for 'Best Fighter'.

I want to say St. Celestine becasue she never truely dies, she was a sister repentia, Led assaults and was severly wounded, went back to fight front lines next day. got mortally wounded, ressurected as the living saint. Yarrick is a badass too, even having a freaking laser eye on top of the Power Klaw

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
The power claw Yarrick carries was carried by Warboss Ugulhard, before Yarrick killed him 1-1. That feat alone makes Yarrick a good contender for 'Best Fighter'.

Killing a random Warboss makes you the best fighter in the setting?

How interesting.

My snakebite grotherder is now officially the biggest badass in the setting then..oh wait, he's not

I had a grot take kharns last wound does that make him the best fighter?

I don't think st celestine should be considered just because she never dies. If she was the best she never would of taken fatal wounds in the first place

Jayo'r wrote:
I don't think st celestine should be considered just because she never dies. If she was the best she never would of taken fatal wounds in the first place

If she never dies, they're not fatal wounds then, are they?

Since we are arguing 'best close combat fighter', I prefer to look at skill at arms being more important than any odd special abilities.

My humble opinion is that Yarrick wouldn't make the final cut. He's good! Any ork worth his salt will agree he knows how ta fight, even Ghazghkull considers him his 'friend/favorite enemy' (orks use the same glyph for those two concepts). But just look how they behave now: Yarrick is enraged and wants Ghazghkull's head at all costs, whereas the big G beat him already, knows how to fight the commissar and lets him go to have a good challenge ahead - that's the behavior of a fighter that's already won in spirit. Also the only time Yarrick ever beat Ghazzy was as a commander when throwing armies at each other, remember, we're checking who's the best close combat fighter! My conclusion: Ghazzy is better.

The ork's psychic resonance (believing Yarrick is tough) won't change that, it does not bend reality enough to make Yarrick invincible or such. The orks believe they're ultimate fighters and survivors, yet they die and lose battles still, hm? Ork psychic resonance is a relatively minor effect, gives a bit of luck here, piece of engine will hold together a tinge better if the trukk is painted red, it makes a shoota a bit more reliable... Won't stop a bullet, or make a tube and springs act like a gun. (Orks are good engineers actually, just uncaring about things looking neat)

Now for another contender, I give kudos to those that named Garviel Loken. I'm also a fan of the guy and the novels where we saw him... But again I must humbly vote against him: He beat Lucius once, then Lucius simply got -better-. Much better, beat-Loken-in-10-seconds better. And strictly in the sense of combat skill, Lucius never stopped improving and seeking the greatest battles to test his swordsmanship, and he's done that since before the Horus Heresy! I name him as a definite contender for 'best fighter' (outside the divine category) as he is arguably the best swordsman in the Horus Heresy epoch - back when space marines came in legions of many thousands and primarchs roamed the stars! I'm not even -considering- his odd chaos blessing, just considering his merit on pure skill with a sword. If Lucius were to face the likes of Draigo, (in fiction, not on tabletop) my money would be on Lucius winning due to sheer breadth of experience.

Now Kudos to who mentioned Drazahar: Master of Blades. Yes, an Eldar phoenix lord of blades that earned his title after a 17-day duel and hundreds of years of fighting -does- sound like the sort of close combat master that could face the likes of Lucius and... I'm not sure who else deserves a spot in such exalted company, even Ghazghkull and most marine big names would likely just be danced around by the likes of them... Kharn maybe?

If were talking about skills then it is Lelith. No special armour, no special weapons, no drugs, just pure skill.

 Spacecat wrote:
The orks believe they're ultimate fighters and survivors, yet they die and lose battles still, hm? Ork psychic resonance is a relatively minor effect, gives a bit of luck here, piece of engine will hold together a tinge better if the trukk is painted red, it makes a shoota a bit more reliable... Won't stop a bullet, or make a tube and springs act like a gun. (Orks are good engineers actually, just uncaring about things looking neat)

Ummmm... the orks dont think they are ultimate fighters... they just thinking they are dead stompy and they try to prove to everyone that they are da best.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
The power claw Yarrick carries was carried by Warboss Ugulhard, before Yarrick killed him 1-1. That feat alone makes Yarrick a good contender for 'Best Fighter'.

Killing a random Warboss makes you the best fighter in the setting?

How interesting.

Well there're several things about the context that are worth mentioning; firstly, at the start of the Second War for Armageddon, Yarrick was an aging Commissar due to retire, posted to Hades Hive out of antagonism by Von Strab, the Governor of Armageddon who decided that Armageddon could deal with the approaching Ork threat. When the Orks invaded the Imperials lost ground until the Orks reached Hades Hive, where Yarrick was bringing the garrison & Imperial forces up to scratch, inspiring them, training them & preparing them. At Hades Hive they achieved the first major victory of the Second War. During that battle this aging Commissar fought the Warboss Ugulhard 1:1. Ork Warbosses aren't just some pansy opponent to kill. They're the biggest, strongest, toughest, meanest, most capable fighter of all the Orks in their warband and amongst the most powerful in the Waaaaaaaghh!. Ugulhard cut off Yarricks arm with the Power Claw but using a chainsword, and despite that major wound he'd taken and all the others in the defence of Hades Hive, he killed the Warboss. This isn't some Space Marine who performed that feat, but an old human Commissar.

When you put it into context like that, do you still just think that he did a 'meh' feat?

For a basic human, an old man, not an augmented super-human or xenos, he's a pretty good contender I think considering the benefits every other non-human or super-human example has to start with.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:


When you put it into context like that, do you still just think that he did a 'meh' feat?

For a basic human, an old man, not an augmented super-human or xenos, he's a pretty good contender I think considering the benefits every other non-human or super-human example has to start with.

Bah! Malcador the Sigillite endured the torments of the Golden Throne, and even stood up after getting sent flying by Lorgar during the Burning of Monarchia

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
firstly, at the start of the Second War for Armageddon, Yarrick was an aging Commissar

He still is, it's not like he's in better physical shape now than he was during the 2nd War.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
When the Orks invaded the Imperials lost ground until the Orks reached Hades Hive, where Yarrick was bringing the garrison & Imperial forces up to scratch, inspiring them, training them & preparing them.

What does this have to do with his close combat prowess? This merely shows that he is a good commander.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
During that battle this aging Commissar fought the Warboss Ugulhard 1:1. Ork Warbosses aren't just some pansy opponent to kill. They're the biggest, strongest, toughest, meanest, most capable fighter of all the Orks in their warband and amongst the most powerful in the Waaaaaaaghh!. Ugulhard cut off Yarricks arm with the Power Claw but using a chainsword, and despite that major wound he'd taken and all the others in the defence of Hades Hive, he killed the Warboss.

How many other people in the entirity of 40k have killed warbosses? Yes they're pretty tough, but killing one isn't a unique achievement and doesn't make you the best fighter in 40k.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
This isn't some Space Marine who performed that feat, but an old human Commissar.

When you put it into context like that, do you still just think that he did a 'meh' feat?

For a basic human, an old man, not an augmented super-human or xenos, he's a pretty good contender I think considering the benefits every other non-human or super-human example has to start with.

No, it's not a 'meh' achievement when you put it into context. But we're not looking for the most surprising victory in all of 40k, we're looking for the best fighter in all of 40k. If an armless grot kicks a Space Marine to death, does that make it the greatest fighter in all of 40k because of the context?

I haven't said he is the best fighter, just a possible from the human race. If you want we can throw Marbo in as well.

The Yarrick killing the Ork warboss is one example we have of Yarrick handing out the Emperor's Justice to an Ork Warboss 1:1 which even an Astartes would have had trouble doing. Point is he's old & he's kept on kicking backside. Can you think of a better contender from the Imperial human side of things? Or should it just be candidates from the Xenos & superhumans and screw regular humans because they're obviously too weak?

 Rampage wrote:

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
When the Orks invaded the Imperials lost ground until the Orks reached Hades Hive, where Yarrick was bringing the garrison & Imperial forces up to scratch, inspiring them, training them & preparing them.

What does this have to do with his close combat prowess? This merely shows that he is a good commander.

Err, context as to what was going on? Not everyone has read the background on the Wars of Armageddon you know.

I am so happy that not once was Chuck Norris ever referred to in this thread before I mentioned him.

Well, as most fighters have their redeeming traits and every technique has its own strengths and weaknesses, why don't we break down into some categorizations right?

For sheer brutality:
Angron takes this guys, there's no contest. Sure, Kharn is good but the boss literally wrote the book on being brutally killy.

Psyker/Fighter skills:
Mephiston. Draigo is an overpowered, grey-colored ultrasmurf, gay loving virgin servant of the Ecclesiarchy, blessed by the pen of he-who-must-not-write-another-40k-codex who fails to remember the fact that if he just passed through the Eye of Terror he could finally go home. Dumbass. Mephiston on the other hand is suffering the Blood Angel's Flaw and still finds the time to be ultra-killy. S10 hits!!!

Shooting:
Gundam Wing Angel with Double Buster Rifles. What do you mean there's no such thing as the Gundam Codex? Aren't Zakus the same as Space Marines?

Being the best in all a fighter could be:
The Emperor. The Swarmlord may be the best of all the Tyranids in everything but the Emperor will squish him flat and wait in front of a Hive Queen just so he can kill the Swarmlord again. Squish. Nids are for Kids.

The Adeptus Custodes can take on all enemies. They're so strong they just sit down staring at each other until someone comes to fight them. They then move a pinky and the enemy dies. Or was that the Emperor?

It's kind of impossible to rate things like this. If a daemon was the best fighter in the galaxy, but was beaten by a Grey Knight because of the advantage Grey Knights have over daemons, then that Grey Knight was killed by a Dark Eldar, that wouldn't necessarilly make the Dark Eldar a better fighter than the daemon.

 Durza wrote:
It's kind of impossible to rate things like this. If a daemon was the best fighter in the galaxy, but was beaten by a Grey Knight because of the advantage Grey Knights have over daemons, then that Grey Knight was killed by a Dark Eldar, that wouldn't necessarilly make the Dark Eldar a better fighter than the daemon.

Then that Dark Eldar falls off his Ravager and gets killed by a rock

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Durza wrote:
It's kind of impossible to rate things like this. If a daemon was the best fighter in the galaxy, but was beaten by a Grey Knight because of the advantage Grey Knights have over daemons, then that Grey Knight was killed by a Dark Eldar, that wouldn't necessarilly make the Dark Eldar a better fighter than the daemon.

Then that Dark Eldar falls off his Ravager and gets killed by a rock

Or he kills Lucius and becomes Lucius himself

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
I haven't said he is the best fighter, just a possible from the human race. If you want we can throw Marbo in as well.

The Yarrick killing the Ork warboss is one example we have of Yarrick handing out the Emperor's Justice to an Ork Warboss 1:1 which even an Astartes would have had trouble doing. Point is he's old & he's kept on kicking backside. Can you think of a better contender from the Imperial human side of things? Or should it just be candidates from the Xenos & superhumans and screw regular humans because they're obviously too weak?

Seeing as this thread is about 'who is the best fighter in all of 40k?' What is the point in throwing in someone who you yourself admit isn't the best fighter? You keep bringing up context, and yes, what Yarrick did was pretty badass, but we're not looking for 'the most surprising kill given the circumstances' we're looking for the best fighter.

Off the top of my head on the Imperial Human side of things, yes I can actually, Iron Hand Straken, but that is irrelevant as I can't reasonably claim that he's the single greatest close combat fighter in 40k.

No, it shouldn't mean that we should exclude all humans just because they're human, but if there are many Superhumans and Xenos that are better close combat fighters than the rest of bog-standard humanity has to offer, why should characters like Yarrick and Straken be included as candidates, the best Xenos and Superhuman fighters are clearly far better.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
When the Orks invaded the Imperials lost ground until the Orks reached Hades Hive, where Yarrick was bringing the garrison & Imperial forces up to scratch, inspiring them, training them & preparing them.

What does this have to do with his close combat prowess? This merely shows that he is a good commander.

Err, context as to what was going on? Not everyone has read the background on the Wars of Armageddon you know.

And what part of that quoted context shows or backs up the assertion that Yarrick is the best fighter in 40k? I also seriously doubt that there will be more than a handful of people on this forum that have no idea what the Wars for Armageddon were.

The Emperor rocks 1 on 1 battles! Energy bolts that erase you not only from the living world but also from the Warp!

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Durza wrote:
It's kind of impossible to rate things like this. If a daemon was the best fighter in the galaxy, but was beaten by a Grey Knight because of the advantage Grey Knights have over daemons, then that Grey Knight was killed by a Dark Eldar, that wouldn't necessarilly make the Dark Eldar a better fighter than the daemon.

Then that Dark Eldar falls off his Ravager and gets killed by a rock

Or he kills Lucius and becomes Lucius himself

I would still pick the rock over Lucius

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Durza wrote:
It's kind of impossible to rate things like this. If a daemon was the best fighter in the galaxy, but was beaten by a Grey Knight because of the advantage Grey Knights have over daemons, then that Grey Knight was killed by a Dark Eldar, that wouldn't necessarilly make the Dark Eldar a better fighter than the daemon.

Then that Dark Eldar falls off his Ravager and gets killed by a rock

Or he kills Lucius and becomes Lucius himself

Lucius was blessed by Slaanesh. That should be enough to kick him out of the running. Blood for the Blood God!!!

The problems with questions like is the're not defined to "in game" or "fluff" or even for the sake of argument how much GW charges you to buy their models. i.e Titans and greater demons
In Fluff terms: Draigo
In Game: Lysander

 Rampage wrote:
Seeing as this thread is about 'who is the best fighter in all of 40k?' What is the point in throwing in someone who you yourself admit isn't the best fighter? You keep bringing up context, and yes, what Yarrick did was pretty badass, but we're not looking for 'the most surprising kill given the circumstances' we're looking for the best fighter.

Off the top of my head on the Imperial Human side of things, yes I can actually, Iron Hand Straken, but that is irrelevant as I can't reasonably claim that he's the single greatest close combat fighter in 40k.

No, it shouldn't mean that we should exclude all humans just because they're human, but if there are many Superhumans and Xenos that are better close combat fighters than the rest of bog-standard humanity has to offer, why should characters like Yarrick and Straken be included as candidates, the best Xenos and Superhuman fighters are clearly far better.

Yes Straken was an example I thought of later on, but Marbo just popped into my mind earlier.

Angron or a Necron who has yet to rise.

If we're not talking rules, and just on merits of bad-ass'itude, Kayvaan Shrikes pretty awesome.
His thunderhawk goes down and instead of crying about he and his squad lead a two year campaign behind enemy lines crippling a huge Ork Waaagh.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

 Rampage wrote:
Seeing as this thread is about 'who is the best fighter in all of 40k?' What is the point in throwing in someone who you yourself admit isn't the best fighter? You keep bringing up context, and yes, what Yarrick did was pretty badass, but we're not looking for 'the most surprising kill given the circumstances' we're looking for the best fighter.

Off the top of my head on the Imperial Human side of things, yes I can actually, Iron Hand Straken, but that is irrelevant as I can't reasonably claim that he's the single greatest close combat fighter in 40k.

No, it shouldn't mean that we should exclude all humans just because they're human, but if there are many Superhumans and Xenos that are better close combat fighters than the rest of bog-standard humanity has to offer, why should characters like Yarrick and Straken be included as candidates, the best Xenos and Superhuman fighters are clearly far better.

Yes Straken was an example I thought of later on, but Marbo just popped into my mind earlier. I like seeing basic human possibilities rather than just Astartes or Xenos - as humans are one of the weakest races in 40k I have far more interest in them & their capabilities than some, I'd say boring myself, Xenos or super-human, so I will naturally look towards the humans first. Just my views, my opinion, that is all.

And you are entitled to it. If this was a thread about, 'who is the greatest fighter in the Imperial Guard' I'd think that you were on the money.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

 Rampage wrote:
And what part of that quoted context shows or backs up the assertion that Yarrick is the best fighter in 40k? I also seriously doubt that there will be more than a handful of people on this forum that have no idea what the Wars for Armageddon were.

It says nothing about him being a great fighter & I didn't say it did, I just threw it in there for context as to what was going on & as a tiny piece of narrative - don't like narrative, then I'm sorry, I like putting it in my posts so deal with it. And yes there are people who don't know about the Wars for Armageddon in the same way I know almost nothing about the new Horus Heresy stuff.

This entire thread is about who is the greatest fighter, if it has nothing to do with Yarrick's fighting capabilities then does it really fit in with the thread. I like narrative, if I didn't I wouldn't be in the 40k Background Forum. However, I wasn't sure that it was relevant to the thread hence my confusion.

Anyway, this is getting more off topic now, so I'm going to leave this here. Feel free to reply if you'd like but I won't be responding to it.

Aun'va will mess you up...

A Bloodthirster has got to be up there.

Well, it's obviously a Tau Gun Drone

Hmm.. the best fighter... Well, Khorne is the God of Murder and war...

I still maintain it's the swarmlord. He's a giant monster so that makes him harder to fight against. He's got 4 swords embued with magical power from outside of the galaxy which he is extremely skilled with

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Well, it's obviously a Tau Gun Drone

Hmm.. the best fighter... Well, Khorne is the God of Murder and war...

Who has nothing on Gork or Mork...

The most powerful figure in 40k is me, I can literally smash any force apart with my bare hands.

Sanguinius, or Angron / Kharn...

MarsNZ wrote:
The most powerful figure in 40k is me, I can literally smash any force apart with my bare hands.

Despite how bothered I am by this, this is the most truthful thing I've read on this thread so far.

Well when it comes to draigo I always assumed his warp adventures had a lot to do with being in a place without rules. He's a match for demon princes in reality but he needs something reality warping to fight off infinite bloodthirsters as far as I can figure.

I remember C'Tan used to be pretty bad ass. I wonder where the fluff puts them these days. Eating stars is a neat trick.

It really is too bad how seriously they made chaos suck in the fluff. Humanity's greatest threat my behind. Apparently gork and mork, who everyone seems pretty unconcerned with, are the scariest of nasty powers in the universe. I always get sick of hearing that myself. It just seems like a dumb trope.


Can we assume that the cabal have been working on some super warrior?

 Void__Dragon wrote:
No but seriously, Draigo beats down Primarchs and their guards single-handedly, and he does it without mountain-shattering physical might that is characteristic of a Primarch.

Unless he has never actually done any of those things and its all in his mind because Tzeentch loves fething around with people.

This is so easy its not even funny, its obviously Gaunt ...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but on a more serious note, i think swarmlord is pretty good bet or Abaddon (might be a tiny bit biased)

 Galdos wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
No but seriously, Draigo beats down Primarchs and their guards single-handedly, and he does it without mountain-shattering physical might that is characteristic of a Primarch.

Unless he has never actually done any of those things and its all in his mind because Tzeentch loves fething around with people.

Draigo is simply over-fluffed by he-who-must-not-be-allowed-to-make-more-crazy-fluff. You have to remember that Draigo specializes in anti-daemon fighting. The Primarchs you mention that he can beat are all Daemons which means his style is tailor made against them. If these Primarchs didn't have said disadvantage they'd kick Draigo in the nuts. The cost of power giving birth to new weaknesses is an endless cycle. Just look at Pokemon.

Draigo won't fare well against MC units like the Swarmlord, Avatar, or Mephiston. And, yes, Mephiston IS an MC. Try fielding Draigo against Dante. With the Death Mask of Sanguinius Draigo loses his effectivity by having the same initiative as a regular marine. Squish.

Mephiston is way better. Psyker Emo Vampire Gothic Rocker with wings.

No one cares about tabletop stats. lol

BlaxicanX wrote:
No one cares about tabletop stats. lol

I only made a reference to the stats as a way of showing how Draigo fairs against beings that are not Daemons or Chaotic in nature. He's nothing but a battle crazed maniac who could have just torn out Mortarion's heart instead of doodling his lover's name all over it. He's so stupid he doesn't even make himself useful by hunting Abaddong or going through the Eye of Terror so he can finally go home. All his fighting and tearing apart of Daemons just fuels Khorn's power.

On a side note he's probably a great fighter but not the greatest as the greatest fighters do not suffer from hubris but rather turn their hubris into a new power. Besides he's only at his best when he's against Daemons. Mephiston ftw.

Blood for the Blood G... Chalice! I was gonna say Chalice! Blood for the Blood Chalice!!!

Mephiston and Draigo are Mary Sues and a real wusses compared to any serious power in 40k (deamon and living primarch, top tier aliens, and chaptermasters)...so your obvious bias is boring and irritating....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hanith wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
The most powerful figure in 40k is me, I can literally smash any force apart with my bare hands.

Despite how bothered I am by this, this is the most truthful thing I've read on this thread so far.

Yep, agree at least he isn't biased by his pathetic SM chapter like most of the fanboys....

 Garvy wrote:
Mephiston and Draigo are Mary Sues and a real wusses compared to any serios power in 40k (deamon and living primarch, top tier aliens, and chaptermasters)...so your obvious bias is boring and irritating....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hanith wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
The most powerful figure in 40k is me, I can literally smash any force apart with my bare hands.

Despite how bothered I am by this, this is the most truthful thing I've read on this thread so far.

Yep, agree at least he isn't biased by his pathetic SM chapter like most of the fanboys....

Everyone is entitled to be biased towards their armies. If it irritates you just keep scrolling down, no need to be snippy. Read back though as I personally put Angron as the best pure fighter and the Emperor (Pre-Heresy) as the best overall.

I apologize for flaming on him but Draigo is a fluff-powered-little-female-dog. Can't help it.

 Garvy wrote:
Draigo are Mary Sues and a real wusses compared to any serios power in 40k (deamon and living primarch

Yes I agree that it's over the top, but in the (albeit bad) fluff that we have for Draigo right now, he beats down Daemon Primarch Mortarion.

 Rampage wrote:

 Garvy wrote:
Draigo are Mary Sues and a real wusses compared to any serios power in 40k (deamon and living primarch

Yes I agree that it's over the top, but in the (albeit bad) fluff that we have for Draigo right now, he beats down Daemon Primarch Mortarion.

Mortarion was probably tired from killing Draigo's predecessor, the Supreme Grand Master Geronitan. Sure, he's a Daemon Primarch, but the Daemons can only use so much energy while manifesting in physical space. The amount of energy necessary to beat a Grey Knight, and the Supreme Grand Master at that, must have been exhaustive as Grey Knights are tailor made to beat down Daemons and were probably designed by the Emperor to counter the Daemon Primarchs specifically as the Loyalist Primarchs are either dead, wounded, or trolling across the universe.

@enooNaMI Ability-wise, Daemon Primarchs outclass regular Primarchs, but the former have the Daemons' weakness regarding their energy limitation. The regular Primarchs don't. In the long-run, they have the advantage - they just have to wear down the opposition and wait for the chance to strike.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
@enooNaMI Ability-wise, Daemon Primarchs outclass regular Primarchs, but the former have the Daemons' weakness regarding their energy limitation. The regular Primarchs don't. In the long-run, they have the advantage - they just have to wear down the opposition and wait for the chance to strike.

Dude, that's what I said, albeit I said it a way that its a comparison between the Daemon Primarchs and the Grey Knights. I also pointed out that the Grey Knights were made so the Imperium still has a counter measure against the Daemon Primarchs and other Daemon Princes since, as I pointed out before, the Loyalist Primarchs are either dead, wounded, or trolling around the galaxy.

Pointed out how this is the reason why Draigo managed to beat Mortarion as the Daemon Primarch had, logically, expended his energies in slaying Draigo's predecessor, Supreme Grand Master Geronitan.

Super off topic.

@topic
Nope, Draigo still sucks against non-Daemon enemies. Angron is still the best fighter.

My list.
1. Yarrick
2. Gazgrull Thraka
3. Logan Grimnar and Every other Wolf Guard Space marines
4. Entire chapter of Angry Marines

 enooNaMI wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

 Garvy wrote:
Draigo are Mary Sues and a real wusses compared to any serios power in 40k (deamon and living primarch

Yes I agree that it's over the top, but in the (albeit bad) fluff that we have for Draigo right now, he beats down Daemon Primarch Mortarion.

Mortarion was probably tired from killing Draigo's predecessor, the Supreme Grand Master Geronitan. Sure, he's a Daemon Primarch, but the Daemons can only use so much energy while manifesting in physical space. The amount of energy necessary to beat a Grey Knight, and the Supreme Grand Master at that, must have been exhaustive as Grey Knights are tailor made to beat down Daemons and were probably designed by the Emperor to counter the Daemon Primarchs specifically as the Loyalist Primarchs are either dead, wounded, or trolling across the universe.

He must have been pretty tired if him at full strength makes his defeater look like a real wuss.

 Lord General Cheese wrote:
My list.
1. Yarrick
2. Gazgrull Thraka
3. Logan Grimnar and Every other Wolf Guard Space marines
4. Entire chapter of Angry Marines

This^ and I will add Yriel and BJORN...

Lukas the Trickster - nothing beats brawn and brains.

 Rampage wrote:

 enooNaMI wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

 Garvy wrote:
Draigo are Mary Sues and a real wusses compared to any serios power in 40k (deamon and living primarch

Yes I agree that it's over the top, but in the (albeit bad) fluff that we have for Draigo right now, he beats down Daemon Primarch Mortarion.

Mortarion was probably tired from killing Draigo's predecessor, the Supreme Grand Master Geronitan. Sure, he's a Daemon Primarch, but the Daemons can only use so much energy while manifesting in physical space. The amount of energy necessary to beat a Grey Knight, and the Supreme Grand Master at that, must have been exhaustive as Grey Knights are tailor made to beat down Daemons and were probably designed by the Emperor to counter the Daemon Primarchs specifically as the Loyalist Primarchs are either dead, wounded, or trolling across the universe.

He must have been pretty tired if him at full strength makes his defeater look like a real wuss.

As you yourself said, the fluff surrounding Draigo is pretty bad. Logically, no fighter is truly at a hundred percent right after a battle. Even more so if he/she was fighting an opponent tailor made to beat him down. Mortarion just killed a Supreme Grand Master (wow I've said this more than 5 times throughout this hijacked thread I'm using to boost my post count), the best of the Grey Knights armed with stuff dipped in awesome sauce (if you believe their fluff). Grey Knights were made to specifically combat the agents of Chaos who have battery packs that last as much as a gaming laptop does unplugged.

So, do I think Mortarion and his retinue weren't at their best when Draigo assailed them? Yes, I believe so because its logical in terms of the current fluff.

Do I think Mortarion could have won against Draigo considering the circumstances? Yes, agents of Nurgle have FnP which, though nerfed this 6th Ed, is still awesome. He probably forgot to roll this...

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Lukas the Trickster - nothing beats brawn and brains.

and stasis bomb

 DarthMarko wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Lukas the Trickster - nothing beats brawn and brains.

and stasis bomb

Naturally

The problem with threads like this is that it all depends on how big you are willing to think:

Mt top 3 contesters for best fighter in the 40K setting would be:

3 A whole C'tan
2 Khorn (the warp entity)
1 The hive mind

While I might not know 100% for shure about the C'tan I am pretty shure that both Khorn and the Hive mind would be abel to take on every other entry sugested so far.

Gork ....aaand we're done


Non-Deity level it's more of a toss-up

I highly doubt that the Ork god would be stronger then Khorn the god of war and killing unending. It would be funn to see Gork vs the whole might of the hivemind however. That would be some funn houers to watch if it was possible to get a good vantage point to watch from.

He is

The ork gods are divine powerhouses, which the other Gods can't even hurt

That would be an awesome fight

It would be ab awesome fight, we agree on that. :-)

Gork or Mork would be a better opponent for Khorne as he is cunningly brutal. Mork or Gork is brutally cunning which would be a better match against Tzeentch.

The Hive Mind, as I read it, is a disembodied entity that exists only in the minds of the Tyranids. If it has a body of its own, it might be in a different galaxy altogether. That, or it manifests itself as the Swarmlord. The Swarmlord is very, very killy and shreddy though most of its opponents will probably have a hard time engaging it in combat as it regards the entire battle as more important than challenges of honor.

I think we have interepeted the hive mind a bit differently enoo.

Eather if the hive mind is a singel entety that controls the tyranids or it is a consiusnes made out of the tyranids, in my opinion, the tyranids act as his avatar. All of them combines. But that is what you get when you meet an alien entety.

If you where going up 1 vs 1 against the hive mind you would be fighting all the tyranids in the galaxy and the once that are innbound. Good luck Mephiston or what-not.

 enooNaMI wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

 enooNaMI wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

 Garvy wrote:
Draigo are Mary Sues and a real wusses compared to any serios power in 40k (deamon and living primarch

Yes I agree that it's over the top, but in the (albeit bad) fluff that we have for Draigo right now, he beats down Daemon Primarch Mortarion.

Mortarion was probably tired from killing Draigo's predecessor, the Supreme Grand Master Geronitan. Sure, he's a Daemon Primarch, but the Daemons can only use so much energy while manifesting in physical space. The amount of energy necessary to beat a Grey Knight, and the Supreme Grand Master at that, must have been exhaustive as Grey Knights are tailor made to beat down Daemons and were probably designed by the Emperor to counter the Daemon Primarchs specifically as the Loyalist Primarchs are either dead, wounded, or trolling across the universe.

He must have been pretty tired if him at full strength makes his defeater look like a real wuss.

As you yourself said, the fluff surrounding Draigo is pretty bad. Logically, no fighter is truly at a hundred percent right after a battle. Even more so if he/she was fighting an opponent tailor made to beat him down. Mortarion just killed a Supreme Grand Master (wow I've said this more than 5 times throughout this hijacked thread I'm using to boost my post count), the best of the Grey Knights armed with stuff dipped in awesome sauce (if you believe their fluff). Grey Knights were made to specifically combat the agents of Chaos who have battery packs that last as much as a gaming laptop does unplugged.

So, do I think Mortarion and his retinue weren't at their best when Draigo assailed them? Yes, I believe so because its logical in terms of the current fluff.

Do I think Mortarion could have won against Draigo considering the circumstances? Yes, agents of Nurgle have FnP which, though nerfed this 6th Ed, is still awesome. He probably forgot to roll this...

I wouldn't call it hijacked, we're debating the validity of Draigo filling the roll as best fighter. I still think that Mortarion probably should have destroyed Draigo even after fighting the Grand Master, especially considering that Draigo was younger and less experienced at the time. Off topic, I wouldn't say that FNP has been nerfed in 6th, yes the roll is lower but at least you get it pretty much all of the time now.

@Rampage
Quoting you will just make the post longer.
I think what happened was like Pokemon situations where you manage to beat a Pokemon you're weak to and then find out there's another one like it at full health and you don't have recovery items.

 enooNaMI wrote:
@Rampage
Quoting you will just make the post longer.
I think what happened was like Pokemon situations where you manage to beat a Pokemon you're weak to and then find out there's another one like it at full health and you don't have recovery items.

Yeah, I think this one is safe to quote. I think that it all comes down to how weak the GK Grand Master made Mortarion. I just find it hard to believe that he made him so weak that Draigo could beat him down. Although, bad fluff.

 Rampage wrote:

 enooNaMI wrote:
@Rampage
Quoting you will just make the post longer.
I think what happened was like Pokemon situations where you manage to beat a Pokemon you're weak to and then find out there's another one like it at full health and you don't have recovery items.

Yeah, I think this one is safe to quote. I think that it all comes down to how weak the GK Grand Master made Mortarion. I just find it hard to believe that he made him so weak that Draigo could beat him down. Although, bad fluff.

Since we have to consider amount of damage inflicted by the GK SGM and the amount of energy it took for Mortarion to bring him down compared to the power limit Daemons have in the physical realm, we can logically deduce that Mortarion was probably at 30-40%. I'm really irked by the fluff surrounding this. Draigo is so stupid to have wasted time doodling on a Daemon Primarch of Nurgle's heart. Tear it off and Mortarion wouldn't be back for a thousand years. Angry Marines would have stomped Mortarion to bits with Power Feet.

Angron! Blood for the Blood... Chalice?

 Niiai wrote:
I highly doubt that the Ork god would be stronger then Khorn the god of war and killing unending.

They are. Think of it this way. Khorn hits Gork, Gork starts to laugh. thats what would happen. Gork hits Khorne, Khrone armor is bent. just a tiny scratch. They keep doing this. In the end Gork is kinda hurt, Khorn is badly hurt. Khorne is a big god but compared to Gork he isnt close. Would I like to see the fight. Absoulutly Cant even spell it! but I cant I really wish I could

Where is the sorcer material backing this up abaut the Ork gods?

From what I've read, it's more Khorne hits Gork/Mork, and slightly damages his armour, Gork/Mork Laughs then hits Khorne, same amount of damage, but instead of laughing,
Khorne gets angry.

It's not strength, but how they take hits. Gork/Mork don't give a feth, Khorne does.

You are just making this up.

 Niiai wrote:
Where is the sorcer material backing this up abaut the Ork gods?

Ork codex, Pg 15

Box entitled 'the ork gods'

Is it largely orks that believe their god is the best? I understand that they are hard to break but maybe not hard to defeat. I heard something about all emotion fueling the chaos gods and not just human, for instance, the birth of the purple one and it's constant attempt to feed on as many eldar as possible.

I'd assume all the rage you can get out of an ork is sorta interesting to say, a blood god?

Quote says they are divine powerhouses that can never be truly defeated IIRC They laugh off the attacks of other gods.

Orks fuel the Ork Gods.

I'm sure eldar also fueled their gods but they're still the source of at least one of the chaos gods and have to be utterly devoted to safeguarding themselves from feeding them. I'm pretty sure chaos isn't just limited to umies.

I'm going to have to read up more on gork and mork because all I've heard so far is that orks believe they can't ever be truly defeated and always come back raring for a fight, they also don't seem to take too much of an agenda upon themselves except in terms of giving ghazkull hints.


On another note I realized how Draigo killed Mortarion! In 6th Princes lost their Eternal Warrior! He must have just gotten a wound through with his force sword! If Mortarion had known about this BS I'm sure he would have stayed a primarch and skipped all this prince business.

The Eldar gods were explicitly starved during the time of the Fall, all the energy that normally powered them was powering the incubating Slaanesh.

On the topic of Draigo...

Lol. Draigo was physically present when the SGM was killed, and had been fighting in the battle. The whole "Mortarion was tired D: " argument (That relies on an assumption not present in the text) applies to Draigo as well as Mortarion, and frankly, I will not assume he was barely clinging to the materium when nowhere does the text indicate this was the case.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Draigo's fluff is good. It's bad. He gallavants throughout the Warp ragehulking his way through armies of Chaos singlehandedly, and no amount of GK shenanigans could compensate for the sheer skill his feats require.

He's the best fighter, bar none, when speaking of mortals. Sad as it is to say that.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Draigo's fluff is good. It's bad. He gallavants throughout the Warp ragehulking his way through armies of Chaos singlehandedly, and no amount of GK shenanigans could compensate for the sheer skill his feats require.

It's good to me...I don't know about the 5th Edition Necrons, but I like his portrayal of Space Marines in general, and the Grey Knights and the Ultramarines in particular

Interesting.

What do you like about Draigo, specifically?

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Interesting.

What do you like about Draigo, specifically?

Nothing in particular, but to me Draigo, Calgar, and the Grey Knight/Ultramarines SCs symbolize that the promise of the Great Crusade isn't fully lost, and the Imperium still has hope against its enemies: whether the darkness of Chaos, the endless xenos hordes, or even the Imperium's own crumbling edifice.

Calgar I can get, I don't think he truly fails as a character nor is he infallible (Swarmlord lol), but Draigo? He stretches my willing suspension of disbelief in a setting that by its very nature should rupture it. This is compounded by the fact that he honestly has nothing even vaguely resembling personal characteristics (While he is hampered by only appearing in a single codex, at least most characters have something detailing or implying something about them to make them personally unique, Draigo is just a Grey Knight that happens to be powerful enough to gallavant through the Warp like one of those dudes in Awesome Reach).

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Calgar I can get, I don't think he truly fails as a character nor is he infallible (Swarmlord lol), but Draigo? He stretches my willing suspension of disbelief in a setting that by its very nature should rupture it. This is compounded by the fact that he honestly has nothing even vaguely resembling personal characteristics (While he is hampered by only appearing in a single codex, at least most characters have something detailing or implying something about them to make them personally unique, Draigo is just a Grey Knight that happens to be powerful enough to gallavant through the Warp like one of those dudes in Awesome Reach).

He cannot leave the Warp though, not until the end.

See, herein lies the truth of the matter: He is much more effective at doing his job (Fighting Daemons) while there, than he ever was in the materium.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
See, herein lies the truth of the matter: He is much more effective at doing his job (Fighting Daemons) while there, than he ever was in the materium.

Which is, of course, the whole point

Ok so I've just gone through 5 pages of this, and I've seen Yarrick mentioned more times than I care to think about, and Sanguinor mentioned only once, that guy put away Ka'Bandha, that's the same guy that Sanguinor himself, struggled against. You're not getting a better fighter than that /thread

Wasn't Sigismund a badass in the Heresy days? I think even Kharn feared his skill.

MadMuzza wrote:
Wasn't Sigismund a badass in the Heresy days? I think even Kharn feared his skill.

I believe he and Kharn were sparring partners pre-heresy

Eldercaveman wrote:
Ok so I've just gone through 5 pages of this, and I've seen Yarrick mentioned more times than I care to think about...

Well speaking personally, as I'm one of the main defendants, it seems, of Yarrick as a candidate, an outside chance, a longshot in a pitch black night with an unloaded rifle whilst standing in a bucket of cod chance, he wasn't actually my choice (in fact I haven't actually put down who mine is - I just fought the corner for a human character). In fact I don't have a real choice of who is the best, best, best of the absolute best, no returns etc, etc. Too many to choose from with different strengths & backgrounds.

 Lucre wrote:
I'm sure eldar also fueled their gods but they're still the source of at least one of the chaos gods and have to be utterly devoted to safeguarding themselves from feeding them. I'm pretty sure chaos isn't just limited to umies.

I'm going to have to read up more on gork and mork because all I've heard so far is that orks believe they can't ever be truly defeated and always come back raring for a fight, they also don't seem to take too much of an agenda upon themselves except in terms of giving ghazkull hints.


On another note I realized how Draigo killed Mortarion! In 6th Princes lost their Eternal Warrior! He must have just gotten a wound through with his force sword! If Mortarion had known about this BS I'm sure he would have stayed a primarch and skipped all this prince business.

If the orks strengthened a chaos god, it would not be khorne it would be slaanesh. Orks rarely fight in rage or anger. They fight cause it is fun. Khorne is god of war in name. Just because the orks go to war alot doesnt mean that khorne gets fat off of them. Orks are known to get fat off of their riches, once again slaanesh. There favorite fun time is fighting, which thhey do alot. Orks indulge themselves in what they like to do the most wich is fighting.

If the chaos fed off the orks as much as they fed off humans then probably Slaanesh would be strongest. The race that uses hate the most when they are fighting is of course humans. Besides I really doubt that Gork and Mork would let the chaos gods feed off of therre followers.

Bloodthirster
Avatar
Daemon Prince Angron (and only the DP version)

If you're not WS10, you're not under consideration.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
See, herein lies the truth of the matter: He is much more effective at doing his job (Fighting Daemons) while there, than he ever was in the materium.

Well, as I understand it when you kill a Daemon in the Materium, you banish it back to the Warp, and it is stuck there for an indeterminate amount of time.

If you kill a Daemon while in the Warp, I don't believe there are any penalties? It just re-spawns almost instantly? So no, I wouldn't say he's much more effective while in there.

Also, if some random chump Captain of the Grey Knights can take down Angron, by himself, in hand to hand combat, I have no trouble believing Draigo can drop Mortarion, hack the heart from his lifeless body and desecrate it as some kind of lasting insult to the Daemon.

And the whole 'stuck in the Warp' thing only works if we assume the Chaos Gods have molded the Warp to suit him. It only works if we assume they want him to be there. The Warp after all, is not like the Materium. It has no gravity, no air, no cause and effect, no physics. No reality. If Draigo were in the Warp and willed his arm to move, he's just as likely to explode into a ball of glitter as he is to actually move his arm. The only way there could be a 'ground' for him to walk on, and 'air' for him to move through, the only way there could be an 'up' and a 'down' and so on and so forth, is if the Chaos Gods built it for him that way.

And think about it from their timeless, infinite perspective. Crushing an annoying insect who wandered into their home is easy, but the fun is over instantly. How much more fun to make him run through a maze, over and over, repeating the same tasks, over and over, to see how long it takes this 'incorruptible' man to become corrupt? One century? Two? Ten? Twenty? Two hundred? The only thing that is certain is that even the most steadfast of Grey Knights could only take that punishment for so long.

Besides, the whole thing is hardly unprecedented. Remember the squad of Blood Angels trekking across a Daemon planet in Warhammer Monthly? I'll be the first to admit that a Daemon planet is not the same as the Warp Proper, but it does set an example.

 Garvy wrote:
Twilight fanboys will go for Mephiston and Dante
Werewolves fans will go with Logan and Arjac
Ward -fanboys will go with Smurfgar and Draigo
Is there a being in the whole damn universe who can best Mary Sue ?

One word - Yriel

Elves are lame.

Anyway, choosing Draigo isn't so much a case of fanboyism (I'm pretty sure most people mentioning him so far loathe Ward's attempts at composition), but just the examples of feats we are given. The dude beats up ephemeral manifestations of war and battle incarnate with his bare hands on their home turf.

Skarbrand, I mean come on, he dented Khorne's armour, got thrown for 8 days, killed millions whilst flying through the air, when he finally landed, he survived, then he continues to lay worlds to waste.

Either him or

Old One Eye. That guy is brutal.

Good shout, I'd forgotten about Skarbrand. That's reminded me of An'ggrath though, who is like the uber version of Skarbrand http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/An%27ggrath#.UME30tlKSaQ. This even states that An'ggrath is greater than Skarbrand in almost every respect.

You forgot about Skarbrand?

This An'ggrath fellow sounds awesome though.

I mean even the Inquisition fear him?

Grey Knights fear him?


That is amazing!

It's even more embarrassing considering that I'm a Daemon player.

Void__Dragon wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Lucius the Eternal. You kill him, but you become him. Either you lose, or you lose. Winning.

I assume he avoids Necrons like the plague.

Tyranids as well.

Can't think of a 'best fighter'. The setting is too diverse. For pure martial skill probably daemon Angron.

 Rampage wrote:
It's even more embarrassing considering that I'm a Daemon player.

tut tut tut.

I'll put my 2 cents on Orikan the Diviner *Empowered* of course, he becomes a supper beatstick that ignores armor saves at St7, hes T7 with a 3+ invul and W4!!!

This guy is insane

 Kaldor wrote:
Well, as I understand it when you kill a Daemon in the Materium, you banish it back to the Warp, and it is stuck there for an indeterminate amount of time.

True.

If you kill a Daemon while in the Warp, I don't believe there are any penalties? It just re-spawns almost instantly? So no, I wouldn't say he's much more effective while in there.

Speculation.

Also: Nurgle's garden did not grow back instantly, nor did those infesting it. It took a deal of time, directly implying that, no, they aren't respawned almost instantly.

Also, if some random chump Captain of the Grey Knights can take down Angron, by himself, in hand to hand combat, I have no trouble believing Draigo can drop Mortarion, hack the heart from his lifeless body and desecrate it as some kind of lasting insult to the Daemon.

Jesus Christ. The grossest part about this statement is that I know for a fact that you at least claim to have read the Emperor's Gift. So either you lied about that, or you are being intellectually dishonest.

A. Random chump captain? Hur. Taremar Aurellian in TEG is explicitly said to have a level of prestige and standing on par with grandmasters of their order, and is in fact a legendary figure among the Grey Knights.

B. By himself? Are you ignoring the dozens of Grey Knights Angron butchered in the melee? Are you ignoring the telekine fields casted by GKs to protect their force? Are you ignoring when Hyperion, bolstered by the psychic power of his fellows, shattered the Black Blade? Are you ignoring all remaining Grey Knights projecting their psychic power at Angron, a blast of such power it stunned him and he struggled to retain his grip on the materium, allowing the wounded Taremar to banish Angron, only to succumb to his injuries and die immediately after?

C. Draigo didn't just "defeat" Mortarion. He knocked him over after smashing through his retinue, held him down, and drew on his heart, and did this all by himself. Taremar's feat was one of great heroism and sacrifice. Draigo went "RAWR Draigo SMASH!!!" and easily curbed a Daemon Primarch.

And the whole 'stuck in the Warp' thing only works if we assume the Chaos Gods have molded the Warp to suit him. It only works if we assume they want him to be there. The Warp after all, is not like the Materium. It has no gravity, no air, no cause and effect, no physics. No reality. If Draigo were in the Warp and willed his arm to move, he's just as likely to explode into a ball of glitter as he is to actually move his arm. The only way there could be a 'ground' for him to walk on, and 'air' for him to move through, the only way there could be an 'up' and a 'down' and so on and so forth, is if the Chaos Gods built it for him that way.

"That anything could exist in the Realm of Chaos, yet be utterly immune to the will of the Chaos Gods, was a fresh impossibility in a domain riven with the impossible. Yet if the Dark Gods could not vanquish Draigo, neither could Draigo win any meaningful victory."

Oh, and looking this up told me something else:

"The daemons he slew inevitably returned in new bodies..."

Implying it isn't instant at all.

And think about it from their timeless, infinite perspective. Crushing an annoying insect who wandered into their home is easy, but the fun is over instantly. How much more fun to make him run through a maze, over and over, repeating the same tasks, over and over, to see how long it takes this 'incorruptible' man to become corrupt? One century? Two? Ten? Twenty? Two hundred? The only thing that is certain is that even the most steadfast of Grey Knights could only take that punishment for so long.

I always find it amusing that people really think Ward thought this deeply into it.

Sorry but no, the text directly states that he is immune to their will, and they can't vanquish him.

Besides, the whole thing is hardly unprecedented. Remember the squad of Blood Angels trekking across a Daemon planet in Warhammer Monthly? I'll be the first to admit that a Daemon planet is not the same as the Warp Proper, but it does set an example.

Frankly no, I do not, but as you said, it isn't the same, and I highly doubt they have the same ludicrously over the top feats as Draigo. Any of them beat a Bloodthirster by punching the gak out of him?

 Void__Dragon wrote:
A. Random chump captain? Hur. Taremar Aurellian in TEG is explicitly said to have a level of prestige and standing on par with grandmasters of their order, and is in fact a legendary figure among the Grey Knights.

B. By himself? Are you ignoring the dozens of Grey Knights Angron butchered in the melee? Are you ignoring the telekine fields casted by GKs to protect their force? Are you ignoring when Hyperion, bolstered by the psychic power of his fellows, shattered the Black Blade? Are you ignoring all remaining Grey Knights projecting their psychic power at Angron, a blast of such power it stunned him and he struggled to retain his grip on the materium, allowing the wounded Taremar to banish Angron, only to succumb to his injuries and die immediately after?

C. Draigo didn't just "defeat" Mortarion. He knocked him over after smashing through his retinue, held him down, and drew on his heart, and did this all by himself. Taremar's feat was one of great heroism and sacrifice. Draigo went "RAWR Draigo SMASH!!!" and easily curbed a Daemon Primarch.

I thought that would get a bite.

No, I'm not ignoring any of that. That's entirely the point. Some Captain who, despite his actions, didn't even warrant naming in the Grey Knights codex, took down Angron man-to-man, one-on-one.

All that other stuff happened before he took him down.

Now, let's look at Draigo and Mortation. What happened there? We don't know. But it's safe to assume a battle of a similar narrative occurred. After all, Geronitan and Draigo were hardly out gallivanting around by themselves. And it's hardly fair to assume that Mortarion and the Deathshroud were just going for a stroll, leaving the rest of the plague hordes at home watching TV.

No, this was a massive conflict between a significant concentration of Grey Knights, and a Daemon Primarch and his cohorts. Geronitan attempted to pull of a 'Taremar' and got his but whupped. It's safe to say at this point that Mortarion is not doing too well. Draigo then stepped in, and performed a lesser feat than Taremar did, and yet gets years of derision and hate for it.

"That anything could exist in the Realm of Chaos, yet be utterly immune to the will of the Chaos Gods, was a fresh impossibility in a domain riven with the impossible. Yet if the Dark Gods could not vanquish Draigo, neither could Draigo win any meaningful victory."

An egg is immune to my will. I can still smash it if I want. Like I said, there is no ground, no air, no reality in the warp. There can only be ground for him to walk on, air for him to breath, and laws of physics to enable him to exist like he would in the Materium, if the Chaos Gods willed it. The fact that they can't just turn him into a pumpkin, because he's no from the Warp (which is what 'immune to their will' means) doesn't mean he just gets to do whatever he wants.

So they create a world for him, and populate it with tests. So what if he passes them? As you said, he can achieve no meaningful victory.

Frankly no, I do not, but as you said, it isn't the same, and I highly doubt they have the same ludicrously over the top feats as Draigo. Any of them beat a Bloodthirster by punching the gak out of him?

They took down a Warlord Titan with krak grenades. Does that count?

 Kaldor wrote:


No, I'm not ignoring any of that. That's entirely the point. Some Captain who, despite his actions, didn't even warrant naming in the Grey Knights codex, took down Angron man-to-man, one-on-one.

Considering that TEG came out over a year after the codex, I'm not sure why you would think that a character who didn't exist until May 2012 would be in a book that came out in April 2011.

The book literally states that he is a legendary Grey Knight within the order. Trying to lowball him by pointing out that he's not mentioned in a book that came out a year before his conception doesn't make sense. Please stop, Kaldor. Don't do this.

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:


No, I'm not ignoring any of that. That's entirely the point. Some Captain who, despite his actions, didn't even warrant naming in the Grey Knights codex, took down Angron man-to-man, one-on-one.

Considering that TEG came out over a year after the codex, I'm not sure why you would think that a character who didn't exist until May 2012 would be in a book that came out in April 2011.

The book literally states that he is a legendary Grey Knight within the order. Trying to lowball him by pointing out that he's not mentioned in a book that came out a year before his conception doesn't make sense. Please stop, Kaldor. Don't do this.

Even before TEG came out, someone had to be responsible for delivering the 'death blow' to Angron. And while he may have been a cool dude, he wasn't a Grandmaster.

Draigo didn't even pull off a trick as good as Taremar, yet when he defeats Mortarion he's derided for it.

 Kaldor wrote:


Even before TEG came out, someone had to be responsible for delivering the 'death blow' to Angron. And while he may have been a cool dude, he wasn't a Grandmaster.

Draigo didn't even pull off a trick as good as Taremar, yet when he defeats Mortarion he's derided for it.

Yeah. That dude was Taremar.

Also, not it isn't safe to assume a similar battle took place. The codex gives the whole thing, what, half of a sentence? Hell, we don't even know if Mortarion actually died. All it says is that Draigo carved the name on the heart. Nothing about anyone, except for the Supreme Grand Master, dying.

kharn, or THE EMPRA if he counts...

Kaldor is trolling again, I see.

Speaking of TEG, ADB posted his lamentations over the GK codex, how he had to scrap a lot of his original plot points because of Ward's mess.

I'm telling you guys those gk guys just got some attack through the invulnerable save of the prince and they failed their leadership test and got ID'd. It's really too bad about DPs losing eternal warrior but I could see a lucky draigo (or similar bro) really going to town on a nurgle or khorne DP. Have to be pretty lucky though.

 Kaldor wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:


No, I'm not ignoring any of that. That's entirely the point. Some Captain who, despite his actions, didn't even warrant naming in the Grey Knights codex, took down Angron man-to-man, one-on-one.

Considering that TEG came out over a year after the codex, I'm not sure why you would think that a character who didn't exist until May 2012 would be in a book that came out in April 2011.

The book literally states that he is a legendary Grey Knight within the order. Trying to lowball him by pointing out that he's not mentioned in a book that came out a year before his conception doesn't make sense. Please stop, Kaldor. Don't do this.

Even before TEG came out, someone had to be responsible for delivering the 'death blow' to Angron. And while he may have been a cool dude, he wasn't a Grandmaster.

Draigo didn't even pull off a trick as good as Taremar, yet when he defeats Mortarion he's derided for it.

Probably because Angron was banished following an epic battle thanks to great sacrifice, while Mortarion was curbstomped with no more note than an 'oh, and then this happened too.'

 Kaldor wrote:
I thought that would get a bite.

No, I'm not ignoring any of that.

Yes you are.

That's entirely the point.

You have no legitimate point.

Some Captain who, despite his actions, didn't even warrant naming in the Grey Knights codex, took down Angron man-to-man, one-on-one.

It is impressive that you manage to stick to your lies after it becomes woefully apparent that you're wrong.

Taremar is explicitly attributed a level of status, prestige, and prowess worthy of any Grandmaster.

Also, Ward probably had no idea who the feth Taremar Aurellian is. That Ward might not have seen cause to include him in his codex means exactly dick.

All that other stuff happened before he took him down.

Hurrr. I hope you're trolling me. The alternative is far more unflattering towards you.

Taremar happened to strike the final blow, he didn't beat Angron one on one with no aid. Unlike Kaldor "Alone and unaided" Draigo.

Now, let's look at Draigo and Mortation. What happened there? We don't know. But it's safe to assume a battle of a similar narrative occurred. After all, Geronitan and Draigo were hardly out gallivanting around by themselves. And it's hardly fair to assume that Mortarion and the Deathshroud were just going for a stroll, leaving the rest of the plague hordes at home watching TV.

Sure, and hey? How about we assume that Leman Russ and the Khan jumped through a Warp Rift to cut Mortarion's arms and legs off first? Why don't we assume that Draigo in fact managed to get so close to Mortarion without dying by lifting the skirt of his power armour and giving him a peek of his goods?

No, this was a massive conflict between a significant concentration of Grey Knights, and a Daemon Primarch and his cohorts. Geronitan attempted to pull of a 'Taremar' and got his but whupped. It's safe to say at this point that Mortarion is not doing too well. Draigo then stepped in, and performed a lesser feat than Taremar did, and yet gets years of derision and hate for it.

Such a massive concentration in fact that we get a three or so line segment dedicated to describing it.

You have no idea how many Grey Knights are there, nor how well this sole Grey Knight did against Mortarion. Cease this mummer's farce.

An egg is immune to my will. I can still smash it if I want.

Look up the definition of "vanquish" and get back to me.

Like I said, there is no ground, no air, no reality in the warp. There can only be ground for him to walk on, air for him to breath, and laws of physics to enable him to exist like he would in the Materium, if the Chaos Gods willed it. The fact that they can't just turn him into a pumpkin, because he's no from the Warp (which is what 'immune to their will' means) doesn't mean he just gets to do whatever he wants.

The Chaos Gods did not will that Draigo could survive there. The pen of Sir Matthew Ward did.

You don't need to press how little sense and how horrible the fluff is, I already know that.

So they create a world for him, and populate it with tests. So what if he passes them? As you said, he can achieve no meaningful victory.

They didn't create a world to test him. He's romping through the Warp burning down their houses.

They took down a Warlord Titan with krak grenades. Does that count?

Quite possibly actually, but I'd have to read the passage myself. Which issue?

Also, Draigo's exploit is bad, as Durza said, because while Taremar's was detailed as an epic battle showcasing incredible heroism and sacrifice (Both the wider conflict written by Dembski-Bowden, and the earlier written rendition of Taremar and Angron fighting themselves by McNeill), Draigo's reads off as a schoolyard bully pushing down the awkward goth kid and scribbling on him.

Wait wow... there are actual books to the first Armageddon war? What are the titles?

The Emperor's Gift is a fairly recent book by Aaron Dembski-Bowden.

A good read, but the last third or so of the book was pretty balls.

Wait a minute, are we talking about the best fighter 'fluff wise'? Or best fighter in the the game itself?

Thanks V_D much obliged I'll look into it!

Oh, and more information is detailed in White Dwarf 279, Codicium Imperialis: The First Battle for Armageddon, by Graham McNeill and Andy Hoare. This details Taremar's fight with Angron a bit more closely.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

No, this was a massive conflict between a significant concentration of Grey Knights, and a Daemon Primarch and his cohorts. Geronitan attempted to pull of a 'Taremar' and got his but whupped. It's safe to say at this point that Mortarion is not doing too well. Draigo then stepped in, and performed a lesser feat than Taremar did, and yet gets years of derision and hate for it.

Such a massive concentration in fact that we get a three or so line segment dedicated to describing it.

You have no idea how many Grey Knights are there, nor how well this sole Grey Knight did against Mortarion. Cease this mummer's farce.

So complain about it being short. Only a moron would assume that the named combatants were the only combatants. Don't complain about Draigo dropping a Primarch on the one hand, but laud Taremar for dropping a Primarch on the other.

And yes, Taremar did it alone, and unaided. Unless you're going for a very obscure definition of 'unaided'. Sure, Angron was weakened by previous events in the battle, but why would you assume that Mortarion was not? Because it's not explicitly mentioned? That says a lot, really.

 Kaldor wrote:
So complain about it being short. Only a moron would assume that the named combatants were the only combatants. Don't complain about Draigo dropping a Primarch on the one hand, but laud Taremar for dropping a Primarch on the other.

And yes, Taremar did it alone, and unaided. Unless you're going for a very obscure definition of 'unaided'. Sure, Angron was weakened by previous events in the battle, but why would you assume that Mortarion was not? Because it's not explicitly mentioned? That says a lot, really.

I accept your concessions, first off.

Taremar needed to have the remaining Grey Knights focus all of their psychic power at Angron to stun him, keeping him from moving, let alone fighting back.

He wasn't alone, nor was he unaided.

Try harder, sorry but you lose.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Try harder, sorry but you lose.

lol.

Nice try, son.

Was anyone else physically confronting Angron at the time Taremar was? No. He was alone. No one else was fighting Angron. He was unaided.

TEG explicitly mentions Taremar facing Angron alone.

Your problem with Draigo shouldn't be that he took down a Primarch. There's precedent for it. If anything, your problem should be that more page-space wasn't devoted to detailing the act.

I'm not going to tell you it's a wonderful piece of background, but it's certainly no worse than the overwhelming majority of the background, and insisting that it's so awful and terrible says a lot more about you than it says about the story itself.

Hyperion passed out before Taremar confronted Angron.

What we do know is that every single Grey Knight poured their psychic power at Angron, stunning him so Taremar could land a killing blow.

And nowhere have I said that Draigo banishing a Daemon Primarch in general is bad, it was always the presentation. Notice how I illustrated that while Taremar's exploit was a trial of hardship, heroism, and sacrifice, Draigo sort of just pushed him over and beat him up.

You should really work on your reading comprehension.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
And nowhere have I said that Draigo banishing a Daemon Primarch in general is bad

I accept your concession.

Do you need tissues for your issues Kaldor?

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Do you need tissues for your issues Kaldor?

Fry.jpg

 Kaldor wrote:

I'm not going to tell you it's a wonderful piece of background, but it's certainly no worse than the overwhelming majority of the background, and insisting that it's so awful and terrible says a lot more about you than it says about the story itself.

Except that it is, much, much worse. A daemon primarch actively jobs like a bitch. Then one guy travels through the warp totally immune to the power of chaos and bullies the chaos gods, burning down their gardens and killing their followers? One guy is outdoing the godamn Emperor.

I'm sorry but you're objectively wrong here. This is not a matter of opinion, this is inconsistant with the rest of the universe, it's bad fluff, some of the worst, and there's no defending it.

ScreamPaste wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:

I'm not going to tell you it's a wonderful piece of background, but it's certainly no worse than the overwhelming majority of the background, and insisting that it's so awful and terrible says a lot more about you than it says about the story itself.

Except that it is, much, much worse. A daemon primarch actively jobs like a bitch. Then one guy travels through the warp totally immune to the power of chaos and bullies the chaos gods, burning down their gardens and killing their followers? One guy is outdoing the godamn Emperor.

I'm sorry but you're objectively wrong here. This is not a matter of opinion, this is inconsistant with the rest of the universe, it's bad fluff, some of the worst, and there's no defending it.

Oh please. Have you read anything about the Warp?

 Kaldor wrote:

ScreamPaste wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:

I'm not going to tell you it's a wonderful piece of background, but it's certainly no worse than the overwhelming majority of the background, and insisting that it's so awful and terrible says a lot more about you than it says about the story itself.

Except that it is, much, much worse. A daemon primarch actively jobs like a bitch. Then one guy travels through the warp totally immune to the power of chaos and bullies the chaos gods, burning down their gardens and killing their followers? One guy is outdoing the godamn Emperor.

I'm sorry but you're objectively wrong here. This is not a matter of opinion, this is inconsistant with the rest of the universe, it's bad fluff, some of the worst, and there's no defending it.

Oh please. Have you read anything about the Warp?

Just three editions worth of chaos fluff. How about responding to the part where my post outlines why you're wrong and conceding that yes, that is terrible, terrible fluff, instead of asking for imaginary credentials? <3

ScreamPaste wrote:
Just three editions worth of chaos fluff.

Well then, you'll be fully aware that the Warp cannot sustain mortal life.

Golly, I wonder how Draigo manages to live there then?

Kaldor wrote:

ScreamPaste wrote:
Just three editions worth of chaos fluff.

Well then, you'll be fully aware that the Warp cannot sustain mortal life.

Golly, I wonder how Draigo manages to live there then?

I already covered this in my post, see here:

ScreamPaste wrote:This is not a matter of opinion, this is inconsistant with the rest of the universe, it's bad fluff, some of the worst, and there's no defending it.

This is the part where you realize 'hey, he's right!'. You know, if you feel like being logical.

ScreamPaste wrote:
This is the part where you realize 'hey, he's right!'. You know, if you feel like being logical.

You know, you shouldn't interrupt when the grown-ups are talking.

You have nothing to counter, nothing to add. Concession accepted.

ScreamPaste wrote:
You have nothing to counter, nothing to add. Concession accepted.

As far as your argument is concerned, there is nothing to counter. Better luck next time, kid.

ScreamPaste wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:

I'm not going to tell you it's a wonderful piece of background, but it's certainly no worse than the overwhelming majority of the background, and insisting that it's so awful and terrible says a lot more about you than it says about the story itself.

Except that it is, much, much worse. A daemon primarch actively jobs like a bitch. Then one guy travels through the warp totally immune to the power of chaos and bullies the chaos gods, burning down their gardens and killing their followers? One guy is outdoing the godamn Emperor.

I'm sorry but you're objectively wrong here. This is not a matter of opinion, this is inconsistant with the rest of the universe, it's bad fluff, some of the worst, and there's no defending it.

Figured I'd bring this back to your exceedingly fleeting and oh-so-pretentious attention, Kaldor. Man, you might as well have named yourself Marty Stu before trying to argue that the Draigo incident is anything less than an unadulterated rape of 40k fluff.

Counter, contribute, or concede and gtfo. I don't have time to waste logic on someone whose only attempt at discussion is a series of moot, condescending attempts at getting the last word in.

willhman wrote:
Wait wow... there are actual books to the first Armageddon war? What are the titles?

last third of the "Emperors gift" was great...or not( if you have Magnus as avatar, because it stongly favors the wolves)...


@Kaldor - you are putting too much depth into Ward mistakes ( trying to rationalize bad writing ),I'm sorry but simple fact is that he did a poor job...
No offense, this is just my opinion....

 Garvy wrote:


@Kaldor - you are putting too much depth into Ward mistakes ( trying to rationalize bad writing ),I'm sorry but simple fact is that he did a poor job...
No offense, this is just my opinion....

What's so bad about it? I really like the way he portrayed Astartes in general and the Ultramarines and the Grey Knights in particular.

ScreamPaste wrote:
Counter, contribute, or concede and gtfo

Like I said, kid. Don't interrupt when the adults are talking.

Kaldor and ScreamPaste, calm down before the MODs come and shut the party down. Although I have to disagree with you, Mr. ScreamPaste - Draigo isn't outdoing the Emperor. I don't recall anything saying the man laying waste to the Warp itself, or completely obliterating his opponents.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Garvy wrote:


@Kaldor - you are putting too much depth into Ward mistakes ( trying to rationalize bad writing ),I'm sorry but simple fact is that he did a poor job...
No offense, this is just my opinion....

What's so bad about it? I really like the way he portrayed Astartes in general and the Ultramarines and the Grey Knights in particular.

if it is ok by you, then it is ok by me...:-)start with 1d4chan, though he is little too much pissed, he has most of the facts straight...IMHO

 Garvy wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Garvy wrote:


@Kaldor - you are putting too much depth into Ward mistakes ( trying to rationalize bad writing ),I'm sorry but simple fact is that he did a poor job...
No offense, this is just my opinion....

What's so bad about it? I really like the way he portrayed Astartes in general and the Ultramarines and the Grey Knights in particular.

if it is ok by you, then it is ok by me...:-)start with 1d4chan, though he is little too much pissed, he has most of the facts straight...IMHO

I have...and TBH, I think most of the authors there ought to be flogged/keel-hauled

I'm going to ask again, because there appears to be two conversations (I'm not including the one where users are blatantly having a flame war... Wow, did I just say flame war? Been a long time since I said that) The two conversations are that of fluff, and that of the game, what I mean is, in the fluff, for example, a carnifex is an unstoppable killing machine, yet in the rules, if you know how to, you can kill it with ease. So, I think there needs to be a two separate threads, one for the people arguing who is the best fighter according to the stories or who is the best fighter according to in game stats.

Please and I ask this on behalf of the many people who wish to use this site for furthering their knowledge or giving out ideas about Warhammer 40k, take your bickering elsewhere. In my experience, people who act cordially tend to learn more and are less brash.

Well, if its one-on-one, there's too many to count. Lelith, Draigo, Dante, Mephiston, etc.

Kaldor wrote:

ScreamPaste wrote:
Counter, contribute, or concede and gtfo

Like I said, kid. Don't interrupt when the adults are talking.

Concession accepted. Your lack of anything in the form of a true response has shown me exactly what any of your posts on this forum will be worth. I can get pretentious drivel anywhere on the internet, thanks for the surplus, though. You're going on ignore now.

Admiral Valerian wrote:Kaldor and ScreamPaste, calm down before the MODs come and shut the party down. Although I have to disagree with you, Mr. ScreamPaste - Draigo isn't outdoing the Emperor. I don't recall anything saying the man laying waste to the Warp itself, or completely obliterating his opponents.

I don't take well to people who behave condescendingly with no substance behind their posts, is all. He's on ignore, now, though.

As for the outdoing the Emperor thing, IIRC it was the Emperor's crusade that was laying waste to the warp and weakening the chaos gods. He did not do this alone, or even personally.

Kaldor basically wanders the warp and bullies the chaos gods because Ward thought it would be a good idea. :p Might be wrong though.

ScreamPaste wrote:

I don't take well to people who behave condescendingly with no substance behind their posts, is all. He's on ignore, now, though.

No offense, but that's kinda petty.

As for the outdoing the Emperor thing, IIRC it was the Emperor's crusade that was laying waste to the warp and weakening the chaos gods. He did not do this alone, or even personally.

Kaldor basically wanders the warp and bullies the chaos gods because Ward thought it would be a good idea. :p Might be wrong though.

Fair enough (although I prefer to see that it wasn't the Great Crusade itself laying waste to the Warp, but the Emperor unleashing his psychic might without fear of being challenged by the Chaos Powers and their servants thanks to his legions) but Draigo hasn't obliterated anyone ala Horus.

ScreamPaste wrote:
You're going on ignore now.

Well we're talking about who the best fighter is. Draigo's feats may be impressive but they're all against one enemy: Chaos. Sure you can argue that its Chaos, the very threat that can devour the entire galaxy(though I doubt this'll happen this edition) but, considering that Draigo is a Grey Knight, we can conclude that he IS the BEST FIGHTER against CHAOS.

Against Orkz? Sure he may be effective but he won't be as cheesy as Yarrick.
Necrons? They won't even bother. Imhotek might cut his hand off.
Tau? Who cares about these guys in a fight?
Eldar? An Avatar might beat him.
Dark Eldar? Vect would black-hole-in-a-box his ass.
Imperium? Angry Marines will OWN his ass. Dante will Death Mask of Sanguinius him to death. Calgar will beat him up. Lorgar would sit on him. Mephiston will rage hump him. Yarrick will ask Ghazgul to beat him up because they're BFFs. And an IG Commisar will shoot him just because they can.

Against Chaos he's great. Not so much everything else.

Draigo got to rest before he fought Mortarion. You can't be elevated to Grand Master without ll the other incumbent Grand Masters present and, if we believe the fluff, they have tons of ceremonies and stuff you need to read and learn because SGMs of the Grey Knights have so many new toys and powers. Mortarion probably forgot to erect monuments to Nurgle so he could recharge. He probably forgot to make his FnP rolls as well.

 Garvy wrote:
last third of the "Emperors gift" was great...or not( if you have Magnus as avatar, because it stongly favors the wolves)...

What happened at Prospero is really no reason to hate on the Wolves given the new timeline. They are a tool like any other, and they did the job they were set to. Now in the Index Astartes timeline, where Russ convinced the Emperor that Horus was a mighty fine fellow and Magnus a corrupt traitor, sure you can hold them accountable (although even then, Horus was considered unrivaled and unparalleled, while Magnus was always the spooky magician that frightened the ignorant).

Thankfully, if you're inclined to hate on the Wolves, the HH timeline gives you plenty of reasons, including the events of "The Emperor's Gift".

@Kaldor - you are putting too much depth into Ward mistakes ( trying to rationalize bad writing ),I'm sorry but simple fact is that he did a poor job...
No offense, this is just my opinion....

Basically.

 Garvy wrote:
last third of the "Emperors gift" was great...or not( if you have Magnus as avatar, because it stongly favors the wolves)...

Contrary to what you may think, I don't as a rule hate the Space Wolves. I liked their portrayal in Prospero Burns for the most part (Their portrayal in their own codex though is gakky, that codex sucks), but no, I don't care for their extra-thick plot armour either. And the last third was stupid as hell.

And I see you're still sore after the sound thrashing I gave you a few months ago. This is good. Let it fester.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ScreamPaste wrote:
As for the outdoing the Emperor thing, IIRC it was the Emperor's crusade that was laying waste to the warp and weakening the chaos gods. He did not do this alone, or even personally.

This is wrong. It was his incredible psychic power which was devastating the Realm of Chaos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 enooNaMI wrote:
Well we're talking about who the best fighter is. Draigo's feats may be impressive but they're all against one enemy: Chaos. Sure you can argue that its Chaos, the very threat that can devour the entire galaxy(though I doubt this'll happen this edition) but, considering that Draigo is a Grey Knight, we can conclude that he IS the BEST FIGHTER against CHAOS.

Against Orkz? Sure he may be effective but he won't be as cheesy as Yarrick.
Necrons? They won't even bother. Imhotek might cut his hand off.
Tau? Who cares about these guys in a fight?
Eldar? An Avatar might beat him.
Dark Eldar? Vect would black-hole-in-a-box his ass.
Imperium? Angry Marines will OWN his ass. Dante will Death Mask of Sanguinius him to death. Calgar will beat him up. Lorgar would sit on him. Mephiston will rage hump him. Yarrick will ask Ghazgul to beat him up because they're BFFs. And an IG Commisar will shoot him just because they can.

Against Chaos he's great. Not so much everything else.

Draigo got to rest before he fought Mortarion. You can't be elevated to Grand Master without ll the other incumbent Grand Masters present and, if we believe the fluff, they have tons of ceremonies and stuff you need to read and learn because SGMs of the Grey Knights have so many new toys and powers. Mortarion probably forgot to erect monuments to Nurgle so he could recharge. He probably forgot to make his FnP rolls as well.

Draigo's beaten up a Bloodthirster in fisticuffs, lol.

 Void__Dragon wrote:


And I see you're still sore after the sound thrashing I gave you a few months ago. This is good. Let it fester.

Ha? I wish you to get well soon...seriously, man...

 Kaldor wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Try harder, sorry but you lose.

lol.

Nice try, son.

Was anyone else physically confronting Angron at the time Taremar was? No. He was alone. No one else was fighting Angron. He was unaided.

That's... not actually the definition of alone or unaided, you know. He was clearly aided by the psychic powers of the other Grey Knights, and though he physically confronted Angron alone, it wasn't in the same sense that Ward intended with Draigo against Mortarion. And of course, Taremar had the decency to die afterwards rather than romp through the Warp.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Contrary to what you may think, I don't as a rule hate the Space Wolves. I liked their portrayal in Prospero Burns for the most part (Their portrayal in their own codex though is gakky, that codex sucks), but no, I don't care for their extra-thick plot armour either. And the last third was stupid as hell.

Well most of the 5th Edition Codexes were pretty bad especially the Space Marines and their counterparts but the SW and the BA still retained some modicum of awesomeness. The Vanilla Smurfs? Nope.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

This is wrong. It was his incredible psychic power which was devastating the Realm of Chaos.

By eliminating fear, superstition, religion, and magic, the Emperor meant to starve the Chaos Gods by withholding from them the sustenance they gleaned from worship, knowing and unknowing, that the minds of humanity poured into the Warp. If all he needed was his own psyker powers then he could have just went to the Eye of Chaos and kicked the Chaos Gods in the ass. Well, maybe not Nurgle and Tzeentch as Nurgle embodies life and its decay while Tzeentch embodies change which is necessary for order.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 enooNaMI wrote:
Well we're talking about who the best fighter is. Draigo's feats may be impressive but they're all against one enemy: Chaos. Sure you can argue that its Chaos, the very threat that can devour the entire galaxy(though I doubt this'll happen this edition) but, considering that Draigo is a Grey Knight, we can conclude that he IS the BEST FIGHTER against CHAOS.

Against Orkz? Sure he may be effective but he won't be as cheesy as Yarrick.
Necrons? They won't even bother. Imhotek might cut his hand off.
Tau? Who cares about these guys in a fight?
Eldar? An Avatar might beat him.
Dark Eldar? Vect would black-hole-in-a-box his ass.
Imperium? Angry Marines will OWN his ass. Dante will Death Mask of Sanguinius him to death. Calgar will beat him up. Lorgar would sit on him. Mephiston will rage hump him. Yarrick will ask Ghazgul to beat him up because they're BFFs. And an IG Commisar will shoot him just because they can.

Against Chaos he's great. Not so much everything else.

Draigo got to rest before he fought Mortarion. You can't be elevated to Grand Master without ll the other incumbent Grand Masters present and, if we believe the fluff, they have tons of ceremonies and stuff you need to read and learn because SGMs of the Grey Knights have so many new toys and powers. Mortarion probably forgot to erect monuments to Nurgle so he could recharge. He probably forgot to make his FnP rolls as well.

Draigo's beaten up a Bloodthirster in fisticuffs, lol.

Any Grey Knight can do that provided he's not tired and he has enough energy left. Bloodthirsters are Khorne's babies and as I said Grey Knights OWN Chaos' ass.

 Durza wrote:
he physically confronted Angron alone, it wasn't in the same sense that Ward intended with Draigo against Mortarion.

How do you know? Of course there were other Grey Knights there. It was a battle after all. Draigo and Geronitan didn't just take a Strike Cruiser for a spin to go and confront a Daemon Primarch with no back-up.

My god void dragon you wine and claim your right on every thread it's very tiresome. You are utterly wrong about the emperor using his psychic powers to destroy the realm of chaos. Please in future read up on your fluff before posting.

 enooNaMI wrote:

By eliminating fear, superstition, religion, and magic, the Emperor meant to starve the Chaos Gods by withholding from them the sustenance they gleaned from worship, knowing and unknowing, that the minds of humanity poured into the Warp. If all he needed was his own psyker powers then he could have just went to the Eye of Chaos and kicked the Chaos Gods in the ass. Well, maybe not Nurgle and Tzeentch as Nurgle embodies life and its decay while Tzeentch embodies change which is necessary for order.

This oft-repeated theory sounds like so much nonsense to me. The Chaos Powers didn't need active worship to achieve sentience, nor to continue existing. They gain power from our actions, and violence, ambition, desire and despair are all ingrained into the human soul and there's no getting rid of it. They certainly wouldn't starve, although the Emperor's plans would likely marginalized their ability to influence the material realm (no cultists to summon them, no errant psykers to possess, and the Webway would keep warp exposure to a minimum).

 Omegus wrote:

 enooNaMI wrote:

By eliminating fear, superstition, religion, and magic, the Emperor meant to starve the Chaos Gods by withholding from them the sustenance they gleaned from worship, knowing and unknowing, that the minds of humanity poured into the Warp. If all he needed was his own psyker powers then he could have just went to the Eye of Chaos and kicked the Chaos Gods in the ass. Well, maybe not Nurgle and Tzeentch as Nurgle embodies life and its decay while Tzeentch embodies change which is necessary for order.

This oft-repeated theory sounds like so much nonsense to me. The Chaos Powers didn't need active worship to achieve sentience, nor to continue existing. They gain power from our actions, and violence, ambition, desire and despair are all ingrained into the human soul and there's no getting rid of it. They certainly wouldn't starve, although the Emperor's plans would likely marginalized their ability to influence the material realm (no cultists to summon them, no errant psykers to possess, and the Webway would keep warp exposure to a minimum).

But fanatism (40k religion) brings wars and other chaos fueling mumbo jumbo,wouldn't you agree?

That fanaticism is the only thing that allows the Imperium to endure. Emperor was simply wrong in thinking that sunshine and rainbows could keep humanity united. Lorgar was right.

 Omegus wrote:
That fanaticism is the only thing that allows the Imperium to endure. Emperor was simply wrong in thinking that sunshine and rainbows could keep humanity united. Lorgar was right.

Well I see you play the chaos card - ok, but I'm sticking to opinion that IoM in 40k is stagnating due that fantism ,which is worse then death, because it is a slow death (Angel exterminatus)...
I'm pragmatic btw - and for me deamon = creature of the warp, abomination, it can die
Imagine if 40k was full of hippies, Khorne is toast...

Slaanesh would be ascendant with all that weed and free love, though.

LOL^ but Fulgrim has bloody Woodstocks all the time...I was amazed how far he went with partying, damn even every marine has designated worshipers who flatter them all the time...
Just imagine Perturabos face and the IW when king was coming in equerry of groupies and lunatics...

 enooNaMI wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Contrary to what you may think, I don't as a rule hate the Space Wolves. I liked their portrayal in Prospero Burns for the most part (Their portrayal in their own codex though is gakky, that codex sucks), but no, I don't care for their extra-thick plot armour either. And the last third was stupid as hell.

Well most of the 5th Edition Codexes were pretty bad especially the Space Marines and their counterparts but the SW and the BA still retained some modicum of awesomeness. The Vanilla Smurfs? Nope.

We'll have to disagree on that - the Ultramarines and their descendants still hold true to the promise of the Great Crusade.

Eldar? An Avatar might beat him.him.

Technically, an Avatar is a Daemon, so no.

 enooNaMI wrote:
Well most of the 5th Edition Codexes were pretty bad especially the Space Marines and their counterparts but the SW and the BA still retained some modicum of awesomeness. The Vanilla Smurfs? Nope.

I'd agree to an extent with the Blood Angels, but the Space Wolves was IMHO worse fluffwise than the vanilla Marine codex.

By eliminating fear, superstition, religion, and magic, the Emperor meant to starve the Chaos Gods by withholding from them the sustenance they gleaned from worship, knowing and unknowing, that the minds of humanity poured into the Warp. If all he needed was his own psyker powers then he could have just went to the Eye of Chaos and kicked the Chaos Gods in the ass. Well, maybe not Nurgle and Tzeentch as Nurgle embodies life and its decay while Tzeentch embodies change which is necessary for order.

That isn't how the Chaos Gods derive power though. And the Emperor, despite his power, is still bound to a mortal vessel.

Give me a little bit to find and download Collected Visions, which has the quote.

Any Grey Knight can do that provided he's not tired and he has enough energy left. Bloodthirsters are Khorne's babies and as I said Grey Knights OWN Chaos' ass.

That's not true at all.

In The Emperor's Gift, a full squad of Grey Knights fights the weakest tier of Bloodthirster, and a Grey Knight is ripped apart and nearly has his corpse eaten.

Punching a Bloodthirster to death within the Warp is an impossibly impressive feat, even for a Grey Knight. Particularly so if you consider fluff from Eye of Terror (the book), where Bloodthirsters in the Warp are big enough to accidentally destroy planets by flying through them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BaconUprising wrote:
My god void dragon you wine and claim your right on every thread it's very tiresome. You are utterly wrong about the emperor using his psychic powers to destroy the realm of chaos. Please in future read up on your fluff before posting.

*whine

*you're


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"'We desire only the Emperor.His psychic might is destroying our realm. Even now he retires to his dungeon to work his selfish plot. He cares not for you or your warriors. He will put weak men above you. If the Emperor were to be sacrificed to us we would haven no interest in your worlds. You would be a just and rightful ruler of the galaxy. We give you the gift of mankind to do with as you will.'"

- The Horus Heresy: Collected Vision, page 54

It was too long to quote....

void_dragon when quoting please add the name of the speaker and the name of the person spoken to. Quotes without these things are often misread and taken out of context. Obviously said quote was given by Chaos to entice Horus(?). Whether it is true or not remains to be interpreted.

Ingethel says similarly to... I think it was Lorgar? Maybe Argel Tal. Or it might have been Erebus who said it.

I'm not checking that many books for one line regardless though.

It was Argel Tal

Ghazzy mah boy! Tear the rest of the galaxy apart!

The new CC Tau battle suit coming out of course

Are we talking actual playable characters, which would be either the swarmlord or abbadon, or is it anyone in the background stories,cos that could be like khorne the chaos god

Can not believe this post is still going on. Last I checked it had 4 pages now it's got 8 and it's gone waaay off topic. When I created it I should of specified some things. No gods no primarchs no emperor. Just based on skill with a hand weapon no supernatural abilities either. Basically everyone and everything is thrown in a pit with they're usually armour but all have the same sword

Draigo. I dont mean to be a fanboy or anything of the sorts but he is single handedly going around the warp and trolling the gods.

Vect, as he does not need to fight you. He has all ready planned a thousand years ago for a truck to hit you or something.........

Planning 1 Fighting 0

Jayo'r wrote:
Can not believe this post is still going on. Last I checked it had 4 pages now it's got 8 and it's gone waaay off topic. When I created it I should of specified some things. No gods no primarchs no emperor. Just based on skill with a hand weapon no supernatural abilities either. Basically everyone and everything is thrown in a pit with they're usually armour but all have the same sword

Well if that were the case the following guys are the ones in the running:

Kharn (he's awesome), Mephiston (even without psyker powers he's badass), Ghazgull, or that giant squiggoth.

The thread got off topic because of he-who-must-not-write-another-codex's fluff trolling with the GK.

Mephiston has the physical might of a Daemon Prince, which is what enables him to achieve feats like ripping Carnifexes to pieces. What opponents above his level has he defeated with nothing more than skill of arms?

Dante on the other hand has killed Skarbrand.

 Rampage wrote:
Good shout, I'd forgotten about Skarbrand. That's reminded me of An'ggrath though, who is like the uber version of Skarbrand http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/An%27ggrath#.UME30tlKSaQ. This even states that An'ggrath is greater than Skarbrand in almost every respect.

He doesn't get out after heresy much...Anyway, deamon primarchs (even Lorgar) and living ones are still more powerful....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 enooNaMI wrote:


Well if that were the case the following guys are the ones in the running:

Kharn (he's awesome), Mephiston (even without psyker powers he's badass), Ghazgull, or that giant squiggoth.

The thread got off topic because of he-who-must-not-write-another-codex's fluff trolling with the GK.

that guy wroted funny 12 year old stuff about Blood Angels,you know that ???

If you think lower, and compare guys from the chapters - Logan beheaded GK grand master Joros before dude could even react (+ few of the justicars (just for kicks))
- Calgar smashed avatar (fu W)
- Draigo trolled the warp (fu Wx2)

So this is another pissing contest and like the op said it's time to /thread

 Kaldor wrote:

 Durza wrote:
he physically confronted Angron alone, it wasn't in the same sense that Ward intended with Draigo against Mortarion.

How do you know? Of course there were other Grey Knights there. It was a battle after all. Draigo and Geronitan didn't just take a Strike Cruiser for a spin to go and confront a Daemon Primarch with no back-up.

Other Grey Knights were present, but it was made clear that they didn't help Draigo against Mortarion, while it was made clear that those present did aid in the banishing of Angron.

Ooo @Durza,why did you started "magic circle" again ???

 DarthMarko wrote:

that guy wroted funny 12 year old stuff about Blood Angels,you know that ???

He wasn't responsible for Mephiston. Mephiston was there and was that strong before he-who-must-not-be-let-loose-on-a-codex made the Blood Angels vain beautiful blood seeking Necron huggers though he did add more unreasonable fluff on Mephiston.

Outside of the Imperium and as the topic starter said, no psyker and supernatural powers, Imohtek is pretty badass. He'll beat you up then cut off your hand as a reminder.

And later run like the wind from angry marines...anyway, thread is about weapon skill, not pp :-)

Angry Marines can't be beat. The only guy who can control them is Commissar Badasious.
Imhotek.

Angron

Ghazghkull.
An Ork who leads the biggest WAAAGH! in existence, and lets an Imperial Guard Commissar live for the sole purpose of beating him again.

pretty sure the beast led the biggest waaaagh!!! Ghazzy had the biggest ork fleet I believe. I dont know WH40k fluff is weirdwh40k.

lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Beast#.UM5o9Kxu5KE

An'ggrath the Unbound

 enooNaMI wrote:

 DarthMarko wrote:

that guy wroted funny 12 year old stuff about Blood Angels,you know that ???

He wasn't responsible for Mephiston. Mephiston was there and was that strong before he-who-must-not-be-let-loose-on-a-codex made the Blood Angels vain beautiful blood seeking Necron huggers though he did add more unreasonable fluff on Mephiston.

Outside of the Imperium and as the topic starter said, no psyker and supernatural powers, Imohtek is pretty badass. He'll beat you up then cut off your hand as a reminder.

Mephiston was always there, but Ward turned him up to 11, like with everything he does. I'm sure the Dark Angels codex will be all kinds of silly.

 DarthMarko wrote:

 Rampage wrote:
Good shout, I'd forgotten about Skarbrand. That's reminded me of An'ggrath though, who is like the uber version of Skarbrand http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/An%27ggrath#.UME30tlKSaQ. This even states that An'ggrath is greater than Skarbrand in almost every respect.

He doesn't get out after heresy much

Doesn't mean he's not badass.

Best fighter in my opinion (not including chaos gods) is swarmlord with his 4 bone sabres he can chop up failbaddon with ease

 King Pariah wrote:
The Great Khan, trapped for thousands upon thousands of years as a gladiator in the dark eldar arenas has to count for something.

This is great!

IMO it's Scarbrand. But it depends on point of view and the author of the book they're in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me upgrade that to An'ggrath.