I did not see this anywhere on here yet. And I thought everyone should know - Pretty excited about this one!

http://www.darkspacecorp.com/

Beyond the Gates of Anatres -Kickstarter

We’re launching our Kickstarter on 1st Jan 2013

We’re doing this so that we can see if you are interested in not only backing us to fund the project but also if you’re interested in helping us define the game rules, artwork, miniature range, tactical abilities, scenery, vehicles and everything else. We already know much of the initial design (well, it’s mostly in Rick’s head at the moment..) and we want to work with a unique set of people with the vision to fund it and help us make it the best wargame experience that exists.

Simply put: we NEED you!

More info: Once it launches will be releasing much more information on the game so stay tuned.

GET INVOLVED! You can already get involved by jumping into our forums and chatting to us and our new growing community

And about Dark Space Corp -


Dark Space Corp?

Dark Space Corp is a new company, founded by ex- Games Workshop stalwarts Rick Priestley & John Stallard, and a video games guy called Rik Alexander.

We’ve started a new company to solely focus on building Beyond the Gates of Antares for you and with you, and our mission is to make it the best wargame universe that has ever existed.

We have formed a partnership with Warlord Games who will help us produce and operate the game utilising their existing sales, warehousing and production infrastructure, so that we can focus on the game development, miniature design and community. Thanks to warlord we won’t have to worry too much about such things as production equipment, assembly lines and dispatch operations – we have all that covered already! The goal of Dark Space Corp is to bring the EPIC new Antarean universe to life WITH our community of backers at its heart.

We’ve managed to attract some of the best wargaming talent the world has to offer and we’re actively looking to recruit more passionate people right now, so get in touch!

Our game team so far:
Game Designers

Rick Priestley – This guy you probably know already, but just in case click here
YOU!

Modellers

Kev White is an acclaimed and hugely talented sculptor who we’re thrilled to bits to have on-board! You can see some of his work here
Bob Naismith is a multi-talented sculptor who created Game Workshop’s Space Marines! He has his own site here
YOU!

Artists

Opus Artz - We’re very proud to say that the staggeringly talented team at Opus are with us
Golum Painting Studios - Manchester based painters extraordinaire
Karol Rudyk – Slayer Sword winner Karol is with us, we’ll be showcasing some of his work very soon
Bruno Lavallée – Slayer Sword winner Bruno is also with us and we can’t wait to show you some of his work either!
YOU!

We’ve got the team, we’ve got the know-how, now all we need is YOU!

This is looking like it could be my first kickstarter of 2013.

Well after a quick scan through their site you can colour me very interested indeed.

The big question for me is: plastic or metal?

Well, that and the overall aesthetic.

Subscribed. I'm mostly interested in miniatures, and that alien guy looks awesome.

 Jeff Cope wrote:
The big question for me is: plastic or metal?

Well, that and the overall aesthetic.

The aesthetic is on their site (link in the OP), pretty nice looking, at a glance, will need to check it out tomorrow.

Not surprised by their partnership with WL, Rick is pretty connected to them. At least that will give a good head start

I'm a bit curious to know just how much sway the community will have on the design of this game

Hrm. Probably going to have to look closely at this...

I'm usually a big fan of far future settings. I must say I am quite underwhelmed by this; few factions, no distinct aesthetic style for the factions, and they are kickstarting this before they even know what the aliens look like. I would definitely not kickstart this game as is. Maybe in 6 months when they can show us some actual miniatues, artwork, rules, anything. Right now this is just a generic sci-fi universe with low diversity and almost zero information.

Actually I have to agree there. I thought the alien sculpt was one of theirs but it turns out it was just an idea and honestly I am not a huge fan of the sculpts of either Bob Naismith or Kev White, not to say that they have not done some amazing stuff, it is just that there are quite a lot that I don't like!

Will look closely at this as well... Darn you Kickstarter ;-)

We really need to have that intervention Mike...

I'm not seeing a scale for the models listed anywhere? Can some one point me in that direction? Or is it missing?

 ph34r wrote:
I'm usually a big fan of far future settings. I must say I am quite underwhelmed by this; few factions, no distinct aesthetic style for the factions, and they are kickstarting this before they even know what the aliens look like. I would definitely not kickstart this game as is. Maybe in 6 months when they can show us some actual miniatues, artwork, rules, anything. Right now this is just a generic sci-fi universe with low diversity and almost zero information.

Agreed with this... unfortunately for them the bar for Kickstarting has been set quite high as far as having a developed idea / universe / etc.

I think they should've waited until they had more to go off of...

The "real-time dynamic gaming universe" has the potential to be a very bad thing. It's pretty much the same thing that I hate so much about Warhammer 40,000: the idea that working well should be rewarded with more support, at the expense of things that actually need the help. It's an okay way to write your fiction, but sucks for rules development and model support.

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
I'm not seeing a scale for the models listed anywhere? Can some one point me in that direction? Or is it missing?

Probably assumed to be 28-32mm since it is by ex gw folks/WL, but again as others mentioned there is very little info

Its 28mm. Though that may be covered in the Forums, where they are trying to get people to log in and get involved.

The player feedback sounds interesting as it mentions using phone apps to report games. Or online. so games that you report might effect the background.....kinda like an ongoing campaign for the background story. If they can keep it from overwhelming any side that loses a whole bunch of games (still keep things balanced) but use it to drive the story (unlike GW worldwide campaigns) this could be interesting.

Also Rick has posted in the forums about it starting with 6 factions - 1 alien and 5 human types. With more to expand into as the game progresses- so as we basically explore the universe. The site just started coming up today I believe so a lot more will be added, but Rick and Booya (Rik Anderson I think) have already replied to a lot of the posts to answer further questions.

I'll be doing it, but if you are not sold yet, they still have almost 14 days to flesh it out for kickstarter. Also, they are going to preview the kickstarter rewards between Xmas and New Year's so lots more to come!

They would really need to have some way to confirm the games. There are some people who will submit false battle reports/results just so their chosen faction is the best. It is a lofty goal, and I wish them the best at it. I, personally, need a bit more before I buy into a game.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
They would really need to have some way to confirm the games. There are some people who will submit false battle reports/results just so their chosen faction is the best. It is a lofty goal, and I wish them the best at it. I, personally, need a bit more before I buy into a game.

Not to mention this is an assumption that people will play the game and not just get the models, or even realize theres a "world wide" thing going on. Maybe even just use the rules for other miniatures!

I mean if only 100 or so people in the world are into the "upload your battle thing" then it doenst really feel to involved. Though 100 people could be plenty depending on your perspective

The sales pitch is nice, but has zero substance. And judging by the people involved, this will turn into another 90s retro-clone game, and probably not even on purpose.

Do we really need yet another small skirmish game with pewter models? They are seriously a dime a dozen these days.

As much as I like Kev White's sculpts, he is not exactly the cutting edge of miniature sculpting and production. With digital sculpting and plastic production now so easily accessible that small companies like Wyrd and Soda Pop can go all-plastic, even for skirmish games where they can only expect to sell 1 of each model to a given customer, there really is no excuse for not going that route.

Where is Zweischneid when you need him?! Think he would love this - a concept that only exists in the creator's head (and what some heads!), and now needs funding, rather than something which was going to be made anyway but is just looking for a cash injection.

So I think what we are seeing here is a much more embyronic project, and I'm guessing something that will have a long KS period - personally, I'm extremely excited by the concept. This thing has some big names behind it, which have to have earned some trust with the kind of things they have made before.

Rick arguably helped make the whole SF wargaming industry take a big step forward with 40k - to me, it looks like he is trying to do the same thing again, there are some really interesting ideas here.

Will be watching with (extremely enthusiastic!) interest!

Not sure how I feel about this one. The structure (dynamic universe based on player feedback) seems a little shakey given how GW ran the Eye of Terror and Armageddon campaigns (I think Priestly was there for both, but not sure). Still, it will be the quality of the figures that make or break this for me. Looking forward to see what they produce.

Kev White is one of the sculptors? Sweeeeeeet!

 Pacific wrote:
Where is Zweischneid when you need him?! Think he would love this - a concept that only exists in the creator's head (and what some heads!), and now needs funding, rather than something which was going to be made anyway but is just looking for a cash injection.

So I think what we are seeing here is a much more embyronic project, and I'm guessing something that will have a long KS period - personally, I'm extremely excited by the concept. This thing has some big names behind it, which have to have earned some trust with the kind of things they have made before.

Rick arguably helped make the whole SF wargaming industry take a big step forward with 40k - to me, it looks like he is trying to do the same thing again, there are some really interesting ideas here.

Will be watching with (extremely enthusiastic!) interest!

This I have to agree with. Kickstarter was supposed to be a place where people/companies with great ideas could go to get the funding to make that idea a reality. Unfortunately it has been turned into nothing more than a pre-release shop, which is a real shame. I’m quite excited about the prospect of backing a project that is still in the development stage, a real chance to get involved and influence the game from the ground up, obviously this is dependent on what the rewards are.

A dynamic universe is a great idea, but is very vunerable to deliberate or accidental manipulation.....

Would they prevent a faction being wiped out ?

I could see it happening to a weaker less popular faction, especially if the others factions see it as a possibility and gang up on it

Alternativly if the factions are all too big to wipe out what is the point of the dynamic universe

The same if the results influence rule/model releases you get a warhammer codex situation only worse...

popularity means more stuff mean more popularity etc

less popular means less stuff, means weaker play means less popular...... your faction dissapears

I'm also a little conflicted. Some serious starpower behind this one, but there is relatively little content so far. The bar on kickstart content is pretty high, and this feels scarce so far. Maybe when the kickstart goes live on the 1st they'll reveal a lot more and wow us all. /hopehopehope

Combining minature gaming with an online presence has never ended well. You can most likely count me out for this project.

The concept seems interesting, but I can't get behind the information we know...

There are some images that are very dark and grimy, almost as if they are grimdark. Though looking at other art pieces, it's very bright and vibrant, and looks like it belongs on Infinity's website. The alien on the main page looks like an evolved 2 armed genestealer, and what I've read about the the background doesn't really grab me. I'll keep an eye out once it's done, but I probably won't back this. Best of luck to them

 lord_blackfang wrote:
. With digital sculpting and plastic production now so easily accessible that small companies like Wyrd and Soda Pop can go all-plastic, even for skirmish games where they can only expect to sell 1 of each model to a given customer, there really is no excuse for not going that route.

Remember though, these guys are in the UK and are partnered with Warlord

The only plastic option these people know is the Bottleneck known as Renedra

Unless they go "restic" of course like Mantic (who also have problems finding hard plastic options)

In short, the UK gaming industry, this particular initiative certainly included, is made up of hobbyists who essentially never moved beyond the "making some minis for my gaming group in my garage" stage.

So I just took a look at the site, and while I will defintley keep an eye out for this, I feel there's just not enough info yet. Hopefully they will work hard to get some of this stuff fleshed out before the KS actually starts. Here's hoping!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
In short, the UK gaming industry, this particular initiative certainly included, is made up of hobbyists who essentially never moved beyond the "making some minis for my gaming group in my garage" stage.

Yeah, as creative as the UK scene is, it's still stuck in the dinosaur age as far as production goes.

Meanwhile, you have companies like Wyrd quietly getting on with releasing dozens of hard plastic, completely slide-core-tooled, digital sculpts.

I'm not sure about this game, the name isn't exactly catchy and we're going to have to abbreviate it to BtGoA or something if it becomes popular.

As for the background of "hard sci-fi, 5 human factions, one alien faction, human expansionist" setting... Infinity anyone?

If I was going with sci-fi skirmish, I'd go with Infinity* over something like this, which seems like another pet "throw at at the wall and see if it sticks" project, much like Fanticide, where a similar strategy of "pimp the fact that people who were big names and did great stuff 20 years ago are involved" was used.

I much prefer sales pitches to take the form of "This is going to be awesome and this is why", rather than assuming I'll go weak at the knees because a wargaming celebrity is involved.

Background of humans evolving into different species in the distant future is interesting, but has the potential to just end up right back at "post-apoc mutants" if not handled well.

*Infinity does high-concept sci-fi really well. Technological singularity resulting in a benevolent AI to aid humanity. Immortality via conciousness uploads.. I love how it uses actual futurist predictions to add flavour to its fantasy.

I played a demo game of Infinity a month or two ago. The rules seemed really very detailed - to the point of being closer to RPG rules than most miniature wargames rules. I'm not sure if I'd have the patience to learn/memorise infinity these days...

I know these guys have been gravitating to simpler rules over the years, in order to get up and playing faster.

 scipio.au wrote:
I played a demo game of Infinity a month or two ago. The rules seemed really very detailed - to the point of being closer to RPG rules than most miniature wargames rules. I'm not sure if I'd have the patience to learn/memorise infinity these days...

I know these guys have been gravitating to simpler rules over the years, in order to get up and playing faster.

Mate if I could give you one piece of advice ever (and I hope my occasional badgering of you on the forums over some time has gained me some credibility! ) it would be to persevere with that game. By far (and I mean far) the best designed game I have ever played. Give it a shot

looks interesting i am going to check out the kickstarter when it is up as i love collecting rulebooks for games. Have to wait and see though to make any real judgement on the game.

on Infinity such a great game it seems complex and having a smart phone can help greatly to reduce any confusion by going on the wiki site.

Lots more information has been posted up. Also Rick has posted several other things in the forums, very interesting things about semi-independent planets/areas and the possibilities for things like feline races, nano-sculpting, and even something like bioware as fashion.

Keep an eye out for more!

 Pacific wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:
I played a demo game of Infinity a month or two ago. The rules seemed really very detailed - to the point of being closer to RPG rules than most miniature wargames rules. I'm not sure if I'd have the patience to learn/memorise infinity these days...

I know these guys have been gravitating to simpler rules over the years, in order to get up and playing faster.

Mate if I could give you one piece of advice ever (and I hope my occasional badgering of you on the forums over some time has gained me some credibility! ) it would be to persevere with that game. By far (and I mean far) the best designed game I have ever played. Give it a shot

Yeah, it's on the list. It's just not a very high priority (ie: after playing things I already own). It also seems like it's really the kind of game that you need a regular group for, rather than pick up and casual play. It also seems like you need someone who knows it well to teach/guide/gm you while you learn the ropes...

A bit of news from Rick Priestley:

We are keeping an open mind about that because so much depends on the kickstarter - but our plan is to produce a plastic set of WarDrones and then other models will be in resin or metal. It is easier to do more in plastic these days because the technology has moved on - it is still an expensive business though compared to making metal models in rubber moulds. The more we can raise on kickstarter the more we can do with plastic kits - and we have a few planned including vehicles of differnt sizes.

I can't help but feel that this will become the next Ex Illis...

 Chowderhead wrote:
I can't help but feel that this will become the next Ex Illis...

Thats exactly what I was thinking.

Not sure if i feel the same way Chowderhead Ex Illis relied on apps/computer for just about everything. Where as the way i'm reading this game it is more of a global campaign that is ongoing.

I know that some card games namely Legend of the 5 rings used to write the winner and their faction into the history slightly altering the fluff depending on who won their biggest running tournament.

I see it also as a direct jab to gw/40k where the story never changes it is set in stone and there isn't much advance. I would hope that the armies that are "explored" are polled to see what players would like to see made.

But all of this is just writing till we see the kickstarter and confirm everything...

Infinity is definitely worth persevering with. I don't think it's much more complex than 40K, really, but it does take some getting used to for someone coming from 40K. But once you know how to play, you can get a decent game in in an hour or so -- plays much faster AND more tactically than 40K.

I'll keep an open mind on the Antares project. I don't really like the idea of a game designed by committee. I want a game where the creators have a powerful, unique vision, and then they PLAYTEST it extensively (maybe through Kickstarter, sure). I'm not really getting that feeling from this. Seems more like, if you buy in at the start, your ideas will make it into the game -- however terrible those ideas are. That doesn't bode well for consistency, or for the final product actually being hard SF.

cerealkiller195 wrote:


I see it also as a direct jab to gw/40k where the story never changes it is set in stone and there isn't much advance. I would hope that the armies that are "explored" are polled to see what players would like to see made.

I want to beleive but...

...we'll see just how much real change is allowed to take place via 'worldwide campaigns' and 'player input'.

Creators are a picky bunch, and often have a place where they want to take their creations.

I like the idea, even if not easy, and if the models look as good as that one alien zombie looking fellow, I will back this for sure.

I like the concepts prevented so far for ByGoA (name needs shortening) and the sheer variety that the universe could present on the table top. Rick also seems really quick to answer any queries posted up on the forums and is actively pursuing methods of engaging the community which is a fantastic start. Obviously without models to show proof of concept for now we're all somewhat dependant on our own imagination as to what the team will come up with over time, but with some big names attached I have high hopes for the project. As for the computer part of the game I am hoping it will be a supporting mechanism and not a full intergrated, vital to play a game mechanism.

I am optimistic that they are starting a kickstarter early when the project is in its birthing stages, while more information would have been nice this feels like something that needs a kickstarter as opposed to pre-sales for other systems. I'm sure in time we'll find out alot more and can make better judgements then but for now I'm in the optimistic camp.

At first I was very skeptical, but since someone told me Priestley was behind Hail Caesar and Bolt Action, both highly regarded games, I think this one might be successful, too. Of course, all I really care about are the models and the background, so I'll just have to see how things develop.

I can't help but laugh when anyone uses the term "hard science fiction" to describe Antares, though. You so silly.

I think it's to differentiate between other types of sci-fi - compare something like Infinity for instance, which is a more plausible future history in terms of how the designers have extrapolated from current world technologies and cultures, to something like 40k which has about as much chance of coming true as god and the devil joining forces (and is therefore more of a 'sci-fantasy'.

So I'm guessing this will go for more of the former rather than the latter, sounds a lot like the kind of thing that someone like Peter F Hamilton would come up with.

Very interested in this. Black Powder/Hail Caesar are just fantastic rulesets, I love Warmaster, and I've heard great things about Bolt Action. I've also heard that Warlord Games is buying their own plastic injection tools in order to facilitate producing Bolt Action stuff at a faster rate because it's apparently been wildly successful... and if that's the case, this game could have tons of plastic too. Definitely backing this Kickstarter mainly because of Priestley.

Just another note on this: The first kickstarter pledge information is supposed to go up between Xmas day and New Years. They are going to preview information on the website, prior to the kickstarter, so you can have some ideas of what will be available.

I do agree that some info on minis (maybe at least some preview art) will be great to see. I think of the avatar type armies for Revers (lots of cool toys, but on the whole just basic humans.) Can get very slick, but Rick mentioned a feline race on the forums, and I would love to see a set of models for that! And they are already contemplating some vehicles (of different sizes).

But starting right after Xmas we'll be able to see some more info on pledging at least.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
We really need to have that intervention Mike...

HA! I think I'm ok. 10 KS's ever (admittedly since May 2012)
Most of the backers have WAY more than that.

There was someone with over 1000 backs!! That's a problem ;-)

 Makaleth wrote:
HA! I think I'm ok. 10 KS's ever (admittedly since May 2012)
Most of the backers have WAY more than that.

There was someone with over 1000 backs!! That's a problem ;-)

Next you'll be telling me that you can quit whenever you want...

They have announced two of the kickstarter levels and so far it's looking ok for entry level access.

£1 gets you access to the PDF alpha and beta rules
£25 nets you the alpha/beta access, a hardback copy of the final rules and is exclusive miniature.

Postage looks to be from the uk as the second level says add £2 for postage outside the UK.

Both levels also get you access to the rule/fluff development forums to take part in the ongoing, open development process

Recently announced GoA's next level kickstarter pledge, for £65 you get:

Starter Box Kit - which contains:
Getting Started Printed Rulebook
Digital download full colour Rulebook
20 x WarDrones
24 Credit Custom Army
Dice (D10s)
Game Markers

+ Hansa - Exclusive Kickstarter Figure
+ Big Bang Reward Tier
Est Delivery: Dec 2013

I'm really happy with the concept of personalised force in the starter kit at this stage, it gives a great opportunity to really individualise a force based on personal taste in the models as they come out and ensures that no two players are likely to line up the same force even out of the box.

Any pics of the war drones yet? They're the plastic unit, right?

Is there a pledge just for them?

Currently this is the first pledge level to include the war drones (I think), and yes they are the first models to be done in plastic whilst a number of other mediums are being considered for other kits (metal, resin). There may be further intermediate pledge levels revealed before the kickstarter goes live but for now this is the first to include drones.

While it's possible that they'll come up with some models worth buying at some point, the Kickstarter seems like a bad deal. Paying a year in advance for models from an untested manufacturer based on fluid miniature concepts sounds like a recipe for disappointment.

Alex is sometimes a bit of a Debbie Downer but here I find myself agreeing with him.

On the plus side, I guess these long lead times mean more people will meet or beat their projected ship dates?

i know that in some kick starter projects they put a very long ship date simply not to disappoint people if they run into any "unexpected delays". In the same token if they finish things ahead of time they can start sending pledges out early and people will be pleasantly surprised.

i would hope that when the kickstarter is over people who pledged would have a rough draft of rules and army lists. Since i thought i saw something about play testing. Giving the rules/concepts over to players opens up the rules to hundreds if not thousands of people who can offer critique and catch anything that may have fallen through the cracks.

I also hope that when the kickstarter is live they have plenty of art/concepts to show everyone..

cerealkiller195 wrote:
i would hope that when the kickstarter is over people who pledged would have a rough draft of rules and army lists. Since i thought i saw something about play testing. Giving the rules/concepts over to players opens up the rules to hundreds if not thousands of people who can offer critique and catch anything that may have fallen through the cracks.

Sadly not. The Alpha rulebook is currently aiming for April, with the Beta in September... so that's a fair while after the end of the kickstarter. I think it would have been a bit better if these dates were slightly closer to the end of the campaign. At this point in time everything seems very handwavy, but it will certainly be interesting to see how it progresses

Definitely going to pledge for this - it's got an element of 'old rockers supergroup' about it, guys coming back together years after that iconic rock album 20 years previously (something like Audioslave springs to mind? ) - yes maybe things have moved on a little, new songs with new artists, but in the back of your mind, there is just that small belief that they will hit that awesome riff and vocals again and blow your socks off as they did before!

So I think definitely worth the 25GBP for a stab at what will probably be a nice rulebook at the very least, and perhaps even more importantly a chance to chat with one of the Rock Gods on their forums

lol nice way to look at it Pacific! the army deal doesn't look too bad, i usually average $100-150 as an average pledge of kick starter. The concept that you can "create" your own army as part of your pledge is doubly appealing. From whats written so far anyone have any favorites?

 endtransmission wrote:

cerealkiller195 wrote:
i would hope that when the kickstarter is over people who pledged would have a rough draft of rules and army lists. Since i thought i saw something about play testing. Giving the rules/concepts over to players opens up the rules to hundreds if not thousands of people who can offer critique and catch anything that may have fallen through the cracks.

Sadly not. The Alpha rulebook is currently aiming for April, with the Beta in September... so that's a fair while after the end of the kickstarter. I think it would have been a bit better if these dates were slightly closer to the end of the campaign. At this point in time everything seems very handwavy, but it will certainly be interesting to see how it progresses

See this is one of my biggest issues, if the Alpha rules are what I think they are that is the rules as they pretty much stand now before any player/backer input then I think a month(ish) wait for the rules after the KS finishes is needlessly long wait for such a thing IMO.

I won't back a Kickstarter unless the rules for the game or atleast a quick start ruleset is included with thte kickstarter before it ends.

Well, it's fair to note that there will be lots of rules/background discussions available in the backer's forum to help guide the alpha rules before the kickstarter ends. There are also numerous rulesets currently in existence from these guys that all prove they know exactly what they are doing, so I woudn't worry overly.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Today they have announced a £70 limited tier

Singularity Reward Tier – Limited to 2300

Collectors Edition Backers Rulebook. (limited edition, numbered and signed by Rick) Est delivery Jan 2014

This will be the ultimate backers’ collectors edition of the rulebook and we’ll involve those people that buy it in its creation. It will have a “Those that helped us create Beyond the Gates of Antares” section where we print every single one of the backer’s names, and a ‘Roll of Honour’ section for those that pledge at the Feeder Hansa level or above.
At a minimum it’ll be a full colour rulebook, printed on the finest parchment, individually numbered and signed by Rick, containing universe map, incorporating the art of GoA book and bound by virgins (ok, maybe not that). We’re thinking a beast of a book with solid metal corners, thick debossed star worn leather covers and metal DSC & GoA logos. Let your imaginations run wild with suggestions.

+ Hansa the Exclusive Kickstarter Figure – Hansa Niroba (full name) is the exclusive Kickstarter miniature, available only to backers of our Kickstarter campaign. He’ll have special game abilities and you can help us define these so we don’t instantly make him banned from games as a disrupter! Est delivery Dec 2014.

+ Big Bang Reward Tier

Some more snippets of information form the forums. Postage is only £2 extra if you are outside the UK or USA, so we know they have already planned how to get around import duties for Europe and the USA.

They have also upgraded the credits in the last tier from 24 to 240; 1-5 in the old examples have become 10-50. I can only imagine this was to allow for greater flexibility in costing out new units by aligning it roughly to prices

Looking forward to this one

Aaaaaand the £125 level has been announced. There is also a limited number (50) of these at £120

Feeder (shipping £2 outside UK & USA)
The full box - Literally EVERYTHING you want to play GoA - full army with tactical options galore!
In the box we will have:
Hardback Rulebook
Digital rulebook (DRM free)
Hansa - Exclusive Kickstarter Figure
40 x WarDrones
500 Credit Custom Army (see Dark Energy Reward tier on how this works)
Dice!
Game Markers!

This box will increase in size as we hit various stretch Goals, with extra stuff (technical term) 'feeding' into this box like the vehicles, new models, scenery etc

+ Big Bang!
Est Delivery: Dec 2013

Hmm, ~$200 is on the high side for a 'sweet spot' pledge level for a system with no significant current following (as opposed to KD where the intl. price is similar - but that has a great reputation already!) so I'm curious to see if it won't bite them in the face.

Really though, a few more 'close' looks at actual models might be nice, by now. I really can't make out even a basic style yet :S

I'd agree with the above points, the Dark Energy tier is reasonable to me for a punt on something that could be fantastic, but without any real sign of concept art, modelling greens or a basic rule system it is currently entirely faith based with 4 days to go until the kick starter goes live. I'm hoping that when the kick starter goes up they will reveal what the team have currently developed beyond the background we've been given already.

This has the potential to be something fantastic but I could never invest over £100 on something purely that goes on faith.

The campaign hasn't even started yet, so I would imagine pictures will start appearing with the actual campaign.

Looking through the forum there are a few more tiers.

At £240 you can get two copies of the Feeder Tier

All these kickstarter miniature games are looking more and more like cookie-cutter nerd-baiting cash-cow milking pointlessness with every iteration.

Surely everybody has at least one "I was there at the beginning" sig banner or avatar now?

 Davylove21 wrote:
All these kickstarter miniature games are looking more and more like cookie-cutter nerd-baiting cash-cow milking pointlessness with every iteration.

Surely everybody has at least one "I was there at the beginning" sig banner or avatar now?

Hey now, let's wait until we see the actual minis before calling it...

 Bolognesus wrote:


Hey now, let's wait until we see the actual minis before calling it...

Hopefully there would be some minis

And I do agree a bit that $200 is a tad high for that KS "Get your free Stretchgoals" sweetspot. Some reasoning that this might not be the most ideal (imo anyways)

1. Most KS havent been that high for a starter pledge
2. As said so far this appears to be extremely bare and very malleable game. So its high for something that so far has not much set in stone
3. It is a new year and the christmas/holiday spending season is over. Most people might be trying to scale back on spending, especially if you have backed any of the large KS from late 2012 from sedition wars to dreadball to even the ongoing KoD. And thats just the TT Gaming ones.

yeah,
For new game systems I'm not sure it's a good idea to have Kickstarter only models.
Sure it might drive up kickstarter pledges.
But in the long run I imagine new people might be turned off joining a game system that has unavailable playable characters.

I've never tried to play type 1 MTG because I can't afford to buy a 'black lotus' card, or any of the other power 9.
If I buy into the kickstarter, I would not want be seen as an elite type 1 player with access to minitures and rules that are beyond new players grasp!

I can see the demo at a games convention;
Beyond player : ' dude check this game out!'
Newplayer : 'oh Hi... this looks great... that guy looks cool!'
Beyond player : ' he's amazing and he has all these neat rules that gamers decided on during the beta phase'
Newplayer : 'sweet, I'm gonna get one!'
Beyond player : ' you can't have one sorry, I got him as a promo for being apart of the beta ...'
Nonplayer : 'oh didn't realise it was like that, I'm gona go check out the FW stall see ya!'

Panic...

So, let's review. Little to no artwork with some background material which is muddy and generic. On the real world side, we have no sculpts, a sweet spot with a high buy in price, no rules release until months after the campaign is over, and a campaign exclusive figure with unique rules. And all of this is going to be shaped "by the fans?" Count me out. It's one thing to back a game which you don't know much about. It's entirely different to back a game that its own creator doesn't know much about either. I hate to be a downer, but they seem to want us to put up real cash for a product which is still entirely imaginary.

cerealkiller195 wrote:
i know that in some kick starter projects they put a very long ship date simply not to disappoint people if they run into any "unexpected delays". In the same token if they finish things ahead of time they can start sending pledges out early and people will be pleasantly surprised.

I think we're going to start seeing more and more of this as creators learn to "work the system" more and more. Just like Relic Knights introduced the "early bird" deals, which many other KS have taken on board as well since then.

It is a good way to jump start a campaign, and establish 'momentum' which might lead to bigger things (Kingdom Death) or might not (Wyrd).

Jury's still out on whether or not it is a good path to true success!

i can understand everyone's opinions but it seems some people pick and choose when exactly to object to kickstarter projects. While some people complain that kick starter has become a pre order/store front other people do not like to fund a concept which is what kick starter was originally for right?

i want to believe this kick starter will work but for now it is anyone's guess. when it goes live and we get a bigger picture of whats going on then ill support if i think the project has potential or take my money else where if i think it is lame.

i know that a lot of people have been burned before by smaller companies (i still miss playing Vor!). Also that the internet has become a place of cynics but i rather have some optimism for a project and give it the benefit of the doubt.

Oh my gosh, a game system/format where my games are relavent. This isn't going to be one of those half online/half wargames things is it, or is it just going to involve telling them about the results of my games?

 Melcavuk wrote:

This has the potential to be something fantastic but I could never invest over £100 on something purely that goes on faith.

Daveylove21 wrote:All these kickstarter miniature games are looking more and more like cookie-cutter nerd-baiting cash-cow milking pointlessness with every iteration.

Surely everybody has at least one "I was there at the beginning" sig banner or avatar now?

Both of you guys have a picture of a Space Marine as your avatar.

You know who was one of the primary people responsible for making that design right, and creating the first gaming worlds for them to fight each other in? The very same person who is making this new game.

If you ever are ever to have faith (to use Melcavuk's term) on someone making something good, in the same way that you trust Ridley Scott or James Cameron not to make a stinker, then this is it! There are some big names on that design roster - the wargaming industry, Games Workshop, everything, would not be the same without them. I think that has to have earned some brownie points for them to cash in.

 Pacific wrote:
If you ever are ever to have faith (to use Melcavuk's term) on someone making something good, in the same way that you trust Ridley Scott or James Cameron not to make a stinker, then this is it!

*cough*Prometheus*cough*

TechMarine1 wrote:
Oh my gosh, a game system/format where my games are relavent. This isn't going to be one of those half online/half wargames things is it, or is it just going to involve telling them about the results of my games?

Their concept is that if you report your games it counts towards the ongoing online campaigns; if you don't... it doesn't. There's no reliance upon computers or the online element in your normal games

 Pacific wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:

This has the potential to be something fantastic but I could never invest over £100 on something purely that goes on faith.

Daveylove21 wrote:All these kickstarter miniature games are looking more and more like cookie-cutter nerd-baiting cash-cow milking pointlessness with every iteration.

Surely everybody has at least one "I was there at the beginning" sig banner or avatar now?

Both of you guys have a picture of a Space Marine as your avatar.

You know who was one of the primary people responsible for making that design right, and creating the first gaming worlds for them to fight each other in? The very same person who is making this new game.

If you ever are ever to have faith (to use Melcavuk's term) on someone making something good, in the same way that you trust Ridley Scott or James Cameron not to make a stinker, then this is it! There are some big names on that design roster - the wargaming industry, Games Workshop, everything, would not be the same without them. I think that has to have earned some brownie points for them to cash in.

OK since you felt the need to target me on this one I felt the need to respond. I have been incredibly positive on GoA since its rumours came up and try to contribute constructively on their forums, I also said that for what they have so far it looks fantastic. I merely suggested that while I would put down around 50 on faith I wouldnt go over 100 without proof of a great concept. As for the names attached... without a concept they are literally names at this stage, they have done some fantastic things in the past but it isnt their collective works being kickstartered it is GoA, therefore proof of concept of GoA is what will provide funding.

As for my avatar, yes it is a marine. It is a marine kit I looked at, assessed if it was something I liked and then purchased. It is not a marine I was told someone famous was making and slapped down money blindly to purchase.

Tldr: I like the looks of GoA, would like more information, yes its a marine.

OK sorry dude, didn't mean it to sound like I was 'targeting' you if that's how it came across!

AlexHolker - haha yes right (although I would probably have mentioned American Gangster )

np. Sorry about that new baby and lack of sleep doesn't conduct itself too well over the internet. I think we started off making the same point that this is potentially an amazing game that it would be nice to get more information on.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
If you ever are ever to have faith (to use Melcavuk's term) on someone making something good, in the same way that you trust Ridley Scott or James Cameron not to make a stinker, then this is it!

*cough*Prometheus*cough*

Prometheus wasn't that bad, it just wasn't good. Hey, I've seen Avatar - don't tell me to trust a guy like that *ever* again

@Melcavuk
I wouldn't call it "potentially an amazing game" quite yet - at this stage it seems to be more like "potentially a game"

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
If you ever are ever to have faith (to use Melcavuk's term) on someone making something good, in the same way that you trust Ridley Scott or James Cameron not to make a stinker, then this is it!

*cough*Prometheus*cough*

I happen to quite like Prometheus. Different strokes for different folks i suppose.

Well, I've thoroughly enjoyed reading through everyone's posts - lots of valid points, and some that perhaps are not...

At this stage I haven't checked out the website and therefore - apart from information gleaned from this thread - have sweet FA in regards to knowledge and, consequently, opinions on this matter.

I'll be checking it out when I get home tonight.

I am intrigued...

I mightbr interested in this one.

Number one, for the pedigree and caliber of Ricks work.

Second, I wouldn't mind putting together a new race that people could play as a faction for the game. I have several that people haven't thought of yet.

Melcavuk wrote:np. Sorry about that new baby and lack of sleep doesn't conduct itself too well over the internet. I think we started off making the same point that this is potentially an amazing game that it would be nice to get more information on.

No problem mate, I'm in no position to be critical at all as I'm often terrible for making pre-coffee posts! Yes I completely agree, any more information at this point is going to help them out a great deal - even the smallest whiff of something tasty at this point would be great!

overtyrant wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
If you ever are ever to have faith (to use Melcavuk's term) on someone making something good, in the same way that you trust Ridley Scott or James Cameron not to make a stinker, then this is it!

*cough*Prometheus*cough*

I happen to quite like Prometheus. Different strokes for different folks i suppose.

Haha right, I like those films too but perhaps those Directors weren't the best choice!
Trying to think of a director that hasn't been divisive .. erm, Terrence Malik? Although then everyone will be telling me they don't want a game that plays like Tree of Life?

 Bolognesus wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
If you ever are ever to have faith (to use Melcavuk's term) on someone making something good, in the same way that you trust Ridley Scott or James Cameron not to make a stinker, then this is it!

*cough*Prometheus*cough*

Prometheus wasn't that bad, it just wasn't good. Hey, I've seen Avatar - don't tell me to trust a guy like that *ever* again

@Melcavuk
I wouldn't call it "potentially an amazing game" quite yet - at this stage it seems to be more like "potentially a game"

And I saw Avatar three times and quite enjoyed it Avatar certaintly has mass-appeal (to the tune of over a billion in ticket sales), like 40k (to the tune of a hundred million a year). Sounds like a good comparison to me

I'm going to say that they are critically low on meaty details right now. I know that this is all the prelude to the preorder for the preview sort of stage, but I read a large portion of the website and was not gripped with any sensation of what kind of game it was, let alone what my army would look like, cost like, play like or smell like (?).

I like the idea of more computerisation in games, but I don't think that I know much about Ex Illis that some people have mentioned. What was the score with that?

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I'm going to say that they are critically low on meaty details right now. I know that this is all the prelude to the preorder for the preview sort of stage, but I read a large portion of the website and was not gripped with any sensation of what kind of game it was, let alone what my army would look like, cost like, play like or smell like (?).

I like the idea of more computerisation in games, but I don't think that I know much about Ex Illis that some people have mentioned. What was the score with that?

Ex Illis basically had you do everything on a screen, then incidentally (and, TBH, quite optionally, aside from having to buy the minis to be able to register them) move about some minis on a table. All zone based etc, not distance.
This would seem to have you basically play a 'normal' TT wargame, then upload results and work some magic with that.
I wonder if they'd be fine with games being played over 'virtual' tabletops (what was that program called again? used for batreps as well...).

Anyway, this doesn't seem to go the Ex Illis route (which is good - as much as I like some of the Ex Illis models, that game should burn in the deepest pits of hell alongside it's designers ), but rather more try to augment the game with some added flavour via some centralized battle reporting system.
As long as the community remains relatively small, but active, this could be wickedly awesome.
I just hope they don't go the 'register your stuff online' bullgak route that EI did - I could probably live with it (and I really, really hope the aesthetic and gameplay are somewhat to my liking because I **want** to love this... really do ) but I wouldn't like it and it would turn a lot of folks off.
Still, can't imagine the likes of Priestly being that daft

A computer was mandatory for Ex Illis. According to it's official description " Ex illis is a miniature game like no other. Instead of playing with dice, rulers, and thick rulebooks, you'll use software on your iPod touch, Mac, PC or laptop to resolve battles. This combination of miniatures and software makes Ex illis a deep gameplay experience that's very easy to learn, yet a real challenge to master!"

BtGoA only involves computers if you want to report your battle reports. There is talk of having all the unit stats and an army builder of some sort on the website to allow the forces to all evolve over time based upon the events or when they add new units or FAQs. They seem very keen on avoiding the power creep that we know and... love? in 40K so there is also talk that point values will be higher than the likes of Hordes/warmachine to allow them the ability to fine tune new units properly. There was an interesting post from Rick about how games systems and new units should work together and be driven by the games developer, not a marketing department... sound familiar?

As for scale of the games, Rick has posted on the forums so far, BtGoA is designed to be about the same sort of scale battle as the original 40k, i.e. a couple of units and maybe one vehicle.... so up to about 40 models per side.

Prometheus, Avatar, etc. as they are being discussed in this thread?

Off topic!

Please endeavor to keep this thread on topic - thanks!

 endtransmission wrote:
There was an interesting post from Rick about how games systems and new units should work together and be driven by the games developer, not a marketing department... sound familiar?

As for scale of the games, Rick has posted on the forums so far, BtGoA is designed to be about the same sort of scale battle as the original 40k, i.e. a couple of units and maybe one vehicle.... so up to about 40 models per side.

Call me a cynic, but that first point sounds like an attempt to appeal to some of the anti-GW sentiment in the online crowd - which is the biggest backer/marketing pool for a project like this. Still, as long as the attempt is there it'd be a good thing (and who could be against using actual benefits for marketing )
Second point, yay! that would mean that the GBP125 tier would either get you enough for a full-on army, or two smaller armies so for GBP125/EUR150/USD200 you'd have a complete game, rulebook, models, everything.
Heck, the way I read it now maybe just an additional GBP65 pledge and you'd have two full-size armies.

...now just hope the actual models and game are worth something

On the website where they describe the pledge levels they gave an example of an army list of 240 credits which contained 10 models. Though I'm not sure if that's the average in both points or models I would love the game to be about 15-30 models with an odd vehicle or two thrown in.

I think in the same post they also give a few examples of troop names and what not

It's good to note that they fully intend to add permanent extras to the core box as well as extend the number of credits with stretch goals so the forces will become larger than 10 models. I'm sure I read somewhere that one of the permanent extras to the starter box was a vehicle, but I can't remember where that was now.

Cant remember where I read it but the guys over on the website were saying they intend it to go from a small skirmish level (a squad), to a larger skirmish level with no power creeps and also some form of RPG. I'm sure I read it somewhere but I may have been dreaming it lol.

overtyrant wrote:
Cant remember where I read it but the guys over on the website were saying they intend it to go from a small skirmish level (a squad), to a larger skirmish level with no power creeps and also some form of RPG. I'm sure I read it somewhere but I may have been dreaming it lol.

Yeah, I read that too (at least I definitely remember Rick mentioning a possible RPG). I like the sound of an RPG at some point, but that's probably getting just a little ahead of ourselves...

Still, I've read all the stuff on the website now and have joined the forums. Sounds like an interesting project and one I'd like to get involved with. Who knows what will happen over the next 12 months...

Booyaa wrote:

ogretyrant wrote:Also, I'm assuming the wardrones wont be monopose as that will lead to some very boring 20 miniatures.



we've yet to decide exactly what the WarDrones sprues will have in them but rest assured that it will have lots of customisation options!

on the BtGoA forum. good to hear.

 endtransmission wrote:
A computer was mandatory for Ex Illis. According to it's official description " Ex illis is a miniature game like no other. Instead of playing with dice, rulers, and thick rulebooks, you'll use software on your iPod touch, Mac, PC or laptop to resolve battles. This combination of miniatures and software makes Ex illis a deep gameplay experience that's very easy to learn, yet a real challenge to master!"

Sounds.... odd. I think that perhaps we don't like sufficiently in the future for that.

I agree that ex-GW players are likely a key market for this, which does worry me a bit. I find that ex-GW players can often be tiresome and argumentative, as they feel the need to explain why they don't play, so I wouldn't be interested in a community built around that as a keystone. That said, a skirmish game on the scale of RT/40k 2nd ed could be neat. I do like the idea of a couple squads of guys and a random tank as a force. But they will have to really impress when it comes to the kickstarter and selling the core game concepts and the universe, I think.

I always wonder if introducing vehicals into small skirmish games is sensible

they usually end up overpowered compared to troops (so why bother with troops),

or so weak most troops can knock them out (so why bother with vehicals).... and if your troops weapons are strong enough to smash an armoured vehical why should they not be even more dangerous to people

(ok a bit of exageration above, but still.....)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I always wonder if introducing vehicals into small skirmish games is sensible

they usually end up overpowered compared to troops (so why bother with troops),

or so weak most troops can knock them out (so why bother with vehicals).... and if your troops weapons are strong enough to smash an armoured vehical why should they not be even more dangerous to people

(ok a bit of exageration above, but still.....)

I see your point. On the other hand it can be awesome on a table with a high terrain density. Think vehicles in an urban environment scenario. sure, they're pretty damn powerful but they need infantry for protection etc...
It's a whole extra dimension onto the game. Of course, it's still true that they will draw quite a bit of attention and define what a lot of that game is about...

regarding vehicles, as long as there is no Main Battle Tank analog (or only in larger games), IFV and APC (and Technicals) vehicles certainly have a place in skrimish level. They're hard enough to ignore standard rifle fire but can be taken out with infantry-carried antitank weapons. They're great for providing advancing mobile cover, area saturation on dense terrain (like a Bradley's 25mm peppering a building until it becomes swiss cheese), and quick evacuation - if the system has a campaign or casualty system where it would be necessary to get demoralized or casualties off the table, etc.

yeah,
I always thought the 33AV max total rule worked quite well for skirmish games in 40k (add up the total armour front, side and rear and it must be 33 or under)
so you could have rhinos and kans but not land raiders etc...

Panic...

 chilledmonkeybrains wrote:

overtyrant wrote:
Cant remember where I read it but the guys over on the website were saying they intend it to go from a small skirmish level (a squad), to a larger skirmish level with no power creeps and also some form of RPG. I'm sure I read it somewhere but I may have been dreaming it lol.

Yeah, I read that too (at least I definitely remember Rick mentioning a possible RPG). I like the sound of an RPG at some point, but that's probably getting just a little ahead of ourselves...

Rick said he would like to develop one of each possible game system for this universe, from board game to skirmish, mass combat system, RPG and space combat. I *think* he said he wants to try and make it work so that the the stats work in multiple systems, but that the systems themselves will be different to cope with the different power levels

I think this has the potential to be mind-bendingly awesome. But - I feel that Mr Priestly et al have set themselves a lot of busy evenings over the next ten years if this is to achieve its potential.

Three more goals have been announced. These are the start of the high end offers...





The Feeder box mentioned in each of these is :

Hardback Rulebook
Digital rulebook (DRM free)
Hansa - Exclusive Kickstarter Figure
40 x WarDrones
500 Credit Custom Army (see Feeder Reward Tier for details)
Dice!
Game Markers
This box will increase in size as we hit various stretch Goals, with extra stuff (technical term) 'feeding' into this box like the vehicles, new models, scenery etc

The Alpha and Beta things mentioned are days out to the GoA offices in Nottingham to play through a series of games using either the Alpha or Beta rule sets with the developers and other backers at that level, plus food and drink

This afternoon Rick has confirmed that there are some commissioned greens that will be shown through the course of the Kickstarter campaign. they are just holding those back until it actually gets going. I would assume the first of these would be the Wardrones, given that they are included in every box set

 endtransmission wrote:
This afternoon Rick has confirmed that there are some commissioned greens that will be shown through the course of the Kickstarter campaign. they are just holding those back until it actually gets going. I would assume the first of these would be the Wardrones, given that they are included in every box set

Looking forward to seeing them, it's also nice that the shipping is so low / non existent for the pledges, shipping seems to add up real fast on other Kickstarters I've looked at especially compared to the initial pledge. Just makes the £125 package seem even better value to me.

Right. A little bit more information for those of you worried about models/rules etc.

The kickstarter campaign is going to be run for 58 days, which means it ends at the end of February. They plan on having daily updates (we'll see how well that pans out) that include peeks into the rules as they currently stand, bits of expanded background, concept art, model previews and videos.

So far, the forum is very friendly with loads of ideas and open conversations happening between potential backers and the developers. If the campaign is run as openly, it should be a pleasure to see this grow. To get the project off the ground, however, they are looking for an initial goal of £300,000; which is a fair old chunk of change.

 Pacific wrote:


If you ever are ever to have faith (to use Melcavuk's term) on someone making something good, in the same way that you trust Ridley Scott or James Cameron not to make a stinker, then this is it!

trust Ridley Scott... not to make a stinker

trust Ridley Scott

Have you seen any of his movies recently? You are defeating your own point.

Honestly, I find the whole idea of supporting someone who is already a superstar in the field just because of his fame to be a bit silly. Most creative artists blow their creative energy on the projects that make them known and then tend to coast if no one has the guts to hold their feet to the fire. Look at George Lucas, Ridley Scott (Prometheus), Peter Jackson (King Kong), Stephen King (Dreamcatcher, Dark Tower 6 and 7, and everything after that), Laurell K. Hamilton, David Weber, Dan Abnett (last 5 GG novels...or more), whoever is designing things at GW now, etc.

Now, if this project had some decent information available, something concrete to get excited about, then I would be a lot more excited. As it is, I have to wonder if the creative team got together and said, "Our next project should be Kickstarter. But what do we want to put up?"

At the moment, the best thing this Kickstarter has going for it is an army of combat robots with the custom choices used to add human NCOs. Anything else has to wait until they've got more than one plastic kit.

Rules teasers and discussions have started to appear on the GoA development forums. So far we've got why they have chosen to use D10 instead of D6 and unit status and activations.

Just wanted to let people know that the kickstarter is now live with some concept art included, great first few minutes with pledges funding in but momentum needs to keep up to hit that goal!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2037958218/beyond-the-gates-of-antares

Only 50 early feeder levels...
Those will be gone quick

Also, when (staying positive here ) we get past the 300K GBP the first two stretch goals simply add credits to the GBP65 and GBP125 boxes - so you get to pick which extra models you want. Good thing - less useless crap you get stuck with.
also there's a GBP24 "20 extra wardrones" add-on so basically, at ~GBP150 you're going to get a complete game with two large armies, if their target of max ~40models/side is going to be about right (feeder and 20 extra drones would give you ~80 models depending on credits picks before stretches).

In at the £25 level for now for the exclusive fig. If it passes the 350k mark I'll probably up to at least the starter level. Kind of excited to see how this develops.

Jumped on an early feeder. 300k is going to be a tough bridge to cross without stretch goals to keep momentum building.

In for 190!

Great stuff, and very glad to see they have taken the 60 day route! Hopefully this should build and build, and I'm hoping they will have made at least enough starter material (in the form of concept designs, maybe even a few basic sculpts) to help whet the appetite of potential backers.

And I'm so excited about this player-input and developing universe idea. Arguably Ex-Illis went too far, and history might judge it as a game ahead of its time, but perhaps this game will strike the right balance between a standard and fun wargaming experience, but also make use of new technologies that enhance the experience. IMO, and I hope I don't sound a bit OTT to say this, some of the concepts being talked about for Gates of Antares are what this hobby needs if it is going to continue to compete for the money of youngsters, and therefore going to continue to thrive as an industry. So on that basis it's something I am going to support wholeheartedly, and of course the chance to have a chat with one of the 'gaming greats' on their forums is pretty cool too

This is a really long kickstarter-- almost two months. And £300,000 is quite ambitious.

I'll be watching this, but it's too early to dive in for me.

ADB is in it seems!

https://twitter.com/adembskibowden/status/286071664373030912

Maybe they can poach him for fluff

Nice. Lets hope he starts chiming in on the forums with ideas

It was ADB's link on Facebook that made me aware of this
I'm so in....

For once I think a long KS is a smart move, as the project is in it's infancy compared with many the extra time will give it time to grow and solidify some of it's concepts

Yes I think so as well, in some ways its a true reflection of what KS was originally intended for - a way of financing developers who have some great ideas, but need the capital to help push it forward. Contrast that with releasing a product through KS which was going to be released anyway, but with the KS as a way of adding some content (although really I guess you could say that both approaches are perfectly reasonable).

Having someone like ADB support it is great for the project - of course there should be a great deal of support from GW-game players, simply because Rick was the 'Patriarch' of so many of GW's greatest (and still most popular) games and is thought of so fondly. But, they will also need to try and connect this project with that massive potential fanbase - I think doing so, and attracting the fancy of those players, could well determine the level of success of this game.

I'm a little bit iffy about it to be honest...

Ok, it's potentially awesome, but... The price points are rather large. £65 for the basic starter set. And £125 for the 'main' pledge level.

As someone how is interested purely for some nice miniatures, I will have to pass so far. I don't really care how many robot silhouettes I get or how many points I receive to buy an army that does not yet exist. The whole project seems rushed in this aspect. Limited edition model? The one just for backers? Yeah, they have no idea whatsoever of what it will look like... Take the drones for example, one colour drawing without multiple angles or anything a sculptor could make a start with. They may use the excuse that they want the communities input but is strikes me as laziness on their part at the moment.

I will be back in a month or so to see any significant progress has been made in that area. Until then, no money for them!

Hmmm, I really don't know. I'm a bit "kickstartered out", and so have to be a lot more selective now.

Spending lots of money now on "credits" for models there aren't even greens of, or in many cases, aren't even concept art of... just isn't a safe enough bet for me. It actually reminds me a bit of Blue Table Painting's KS where you were pledging for painting credits... not for me.

The stretch goals so far aren't very inspiring either. When they hit $500,000 they're going to add... a single one part model to the $100 pledge.

Backed for the 190 feeder collectors edition. Can always reduce or increase later if needed but for now, happy to have a limited edition slot.

The guys involved have a good pedigree, I'll give them a shot.

Needs more concept art and info.

I just spent 5 minutes skim-reading the page and still have no idea what material the miniatures are made out of.

There's a lot of marketing speil and not a lot of cutting to the point on the KS page.

First, they bang on for 10 paragraphs about the online aspect of the gaming, then go on to ramble on about the kickstarter exclusive mini for a while.

*Then* we get to some actual info.

- Four game factions are Humans, Cyborgs, Monkeys and Reavers.

Then, some stuff about Fluid combat systems I don't understand, *yet more* pimping of the online real-time element, and finally this nugget of info:

- Game uses d10s and d100s.

That's good, I like d10's.

Then, a MASSIVE section banging on about the new company called Dark Space Corp and all of its numerous employees and their numerous achievements.

Then, some confusing stuff about their Credits system for the KS.

Then, finally, right at the bottom, all the concept art of the new minis that I actually want to see.

A few lessons in being succinct would serve them well.

EDIT: Eh, some of these pledge levels are a bit crappy. £70 for a rulebook and a single miniature? Even GW isn't that bad!

£125 for 90 single-piece minis? OR 40 single-piece and 25 multi-piece minis? No thankyou. I'd like a lot more variety than just 40 Wardrones in the basic kit.

@ScarletSquig
The wardrones are hard plastic, supposedly multi-part, multi-pose etc; production/logistics will be done by warlord games on everything; the credits models will probably be metal.

Game sounds like it uses either alternate unit activation or something like infinity's ARO system or some combination of such elements - but maybe it'll go more the 2nd ed 40k overwatch route.

I've tried to ask about the wardrones but most they can confirm is they'll post some greens before the end of the project and they'll *try* to have the wardrones amongst those.

I'm in for feeder level but I'll say it's a bit of a gamble as far as I'm concerned; they REALLY have to show some more stuff before the end...

 Bolognesus wrote:
@ScarletSquig
The wardrones are hard plastic, supposedly multi-part, multi-pose etc; production/logistics will be done by warlord games on everything; the credits models will probably be metal.

I don't understand this last part... some models plastic, but the "credits models" (the ones you're pledging for?) will be metal?

This whole idea if pledging for "credits" for models without even art is a step even further up the chain than any Kickstarter I can really think of...

Not touching this til I see a good range of miniature concepts at the very least, preferably at least dozen actual sculpts. At the very least they should have had the wardrones sorted as they are the fixed miniature component for the starters.

Nono, you get either 20 or 40 wardrones in the 65 ad 125 levels respectively, and either 240 or 500 credits on top of that.
Those credits are used to pick models besides the 'basic' troopers (wardrones).

You basically get the core models and pick the flavour yourself.
I kind of like it - keeps the cookie-cutter level down a bit and will allow me to avoid models which I might not like.
To each his own, though!

 scarletsquig wrote:


EDIT: Eh, some of these pledge levels are a bit crappy. £70 for a rulebook and a single miniature? Even GW isn't that bad!

Umm.. rulebook (270 pages full colour) + mini is only £25,-

Same price as GW's 90 page full-colour Crusade of Fire, no mini, or what Mantic charges for their thin 144 page Kings of War rulebook, also no mini.

AlexHolker wrote:The stretch goals so far aren't very inspiring either. When they hit $500,000 they're going to add... a single one part model to the $100 pledge.

I believe I read a comment by Rick that the bonuses are just bare bones at present - as new concept art/rules notes are released and the game starts to take shape, these are going to be padded out into something more comprehensive. So, I guess it's a case of 'watch this space'!

Bolognesus wrote:@ScarletSquig

Game sounds like it uses either alternate unit activation or something like infinity's ARO system or some combination of such elements - but maybe it'll go more the 2nd ed 40k overwatch route.

I'm in for feeder level but I'll say it's a bit of a gamble as far as I'm concerned; they REALLY have to show some more stuff before the end...

Again from what I've read the alternative-activation sequence will be a bit more involved than overwatch/countercharge or whatever. Rick commented on their boards said that he's conscious about confusing the turn sequence, but is very keen to have a reaction type turn mechanic - although to be honest has there been a game designed in the past decade that hasn't used this system at some point?

Thanks for explaining that, Bolognesus! It's pretty confusing on the page...

@Bolognesus: Yeah, they need a ton more concept art, and soon... from the sounds of it they want the community to design the miniatures as it mentions that they will use art sent in by the backer development community?

It's looking a bit bare at the moment, it wouldn't have killed them to do concept art for all minis and 1 or 2 greens (resin cast and painted) in advance.

If they're going to charge full retail and offer no or minimal rewards with their KS, then there needs to be a basic level of stuff already done, otherwise it gives off the impression that the creators don't have a lot of faith in the project themselves.
High-ticket video game Kickstarters often need a complete alpha build or gameplay video in place before anyone takes them seriously.

There's a bit too much "I am Rick Priestly, therefore this will be awesome" (the first paragraph even states "this is all in Rick's head at the moment") and not enough of the stuff that matters.

Hell, there is a Fighting Fantasy Kickstarter going at the moment (with a goal of £15k!), where a £500 pledge gets you lunch with Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone, founders of GW.

That's a nice, modest use of celebrity status compared to this, which has a lot hanging on the "this will rock because Rick" factor.

It'll be interesting to see if this pans out. They need £5k (~$8k) per day in pledges on average on each and every day for this to work out.

 RiTides wrote:
Thanks for explaining that, Bolognesus! It's pretty confusing on the page...

Yeah, I know. Try telling that to the guys running it though - doesn't exactly get through their skulls, it seems. Shame - I think this and the lack of a few models (something they *really* could have done easily with those folks involved...) to show will really hamper this project to the tune of somewhere in the six figures...

@ScarletSquig
I'd be surprised if these were the retail prices, though.
Breaking down feeder through the add-on prices we get 2xGBP24=GBP48 for the 40 wardrones (GBP1,20/mini is pretty reasonable - above mantic levels but still quite competitive) and GBP25 for the rulebook - a total of 73 quid. total price is 125quid and that includes shipping within the UK - let's say GBP5 (I know for sure this thing will cost more than GBP7 to ship to me in NL already - let alone the US so this is actually a lowball estimate). That means you pay 47 quid (let's say 50) for the 500 credits and get the 'KS exclusive' model free.

GBP 1,- for 10 credits means you either get 'basic' metal models for GBP 1 each or really complex stuff, models on bikes etc for GBP 5. Really, that doesn't scream 'full retail pricing' to me - not even for warlord!
Most likely, you'll get a bunch of the 10 cred models and a few higher-up things - 20 or so models, and as you can see the stretch goals beyond the 300K are only 25 K apart for the first few - the chance of this getting over 300K, but only barely, is slim so it'll probably meet a couple of those, adding more stuff. Maybe not insanely much but an extra model here and there which, unlike most KS projects, you get to essentially choose out of the entire range (therefore providing a hell of a lot more 'value' in use - I love my bunch of KoW pledges but even with, at that point, 4 or 5 armies I'm going to have to trade a craptonne of stuff I have no use whatsoever for away...), will make it concretely nicer for everyone with every stretch.

Not seeing how you make this out to be paying full retail?
Okay, the GBP65 level is distinctly less awesome but even that, I think, is *probably* below MSRP

The best thing about the kickstarter is that there will be electronic versions of the rules. The strange thing is that the higher pledge levels gain the physical copy and lose the PDF. They should just give everyone who pledges for a physical rulebook a copy of the electronic one as well. Some behind the times thinking there.

 agustin wrote:
The strange thing is that the higher pledge levels gain the physical copy and lose the PDF.

...which levels would that be? The first level containing the regular rulebook is Feeder and since that Feeder box is included in, I believe, all higher pledge levels, and contains 'access' to the digital rulebook - I think every higher-level pledge gets the digital copy. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. It's been known to happen

Big Bang! is included in higher tiers, but not The Beginning!. Big Bang! has the alpha and beta PDF, but not the 270p final PDF. Only The Beginning! pledge has the PDF of the rulebook and none of the higher tier rewards include The Beginning! as part of them.

Check the pledge descriptions again. the feeder box is explicitly described as containing the digital download.
All higher pledge levels contain that Feeder box.

Which high pledge levels do not contain the digital download, according to you?

Managed to snag one of the £120 pledges in the early hours, I've got high hopes for this one, looking forward to seeing the concepts solidifying, me and the other half are already deciding which faction to snag.

Maybe it's just me but I can't see this hitting 300k pounds. That's a huge goal, especially with so little info and no tempting stretch goals

I just can't get past the fact that they're asking for £300,000 ($487,000) and expecting the people paying the money to design a lot of their figures, rules and artwork, it just seems like a crazy business model to me. I wish them luck, but I can't buy into vapourware, no matter who will eventually be making it. This Kickstarter feels like it's being done at least a year earlier than it should be.

darrkespur wrote:
I just can't get past the fact that they're asking for £300,000 ($487,000) and expecting the people paying the money to design a lot of their figures, rules and artwork, it just seems like a crazy business model to me. I wish them luck, but I can't buy into vapourware, no matter who will eventually be making it. This Kickstarter feels like it's being done at least a year earlier than it should be.

See. I'm sat on the other side of this fence. I think the kickstarter is great and love the idea of getting involved this early in the process as it means I've actually got a say in how the universe and models pan out. We've seen with Sedition wars that they didn't seem to actually want feedback on the sketches and greens they showed; this project on the other hand really does. Yes, the production costs are high, but there have been higher goals... if it doesn't reach it, then you've not lost anything by backing it. If it does... the rules discussed so far on the forum seem like a great concept and the models don't seem particularly pricy for what you are getting.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Which high pledge levels do not contain the digital download, according to you?

To be pedantic, the new Collectors Singularity Hansa level at £305 doesn't, but anything that mentions Feeder in it's description certainly does.

 scarletsquig wrote:
@Bolognesus: Yeah, they need a ton more concept art, and soon... from the sounds of it they want the community to design the miniatures as it mentions that they will use art sent in by the backer development community?

It's looking a bit bare at the moment, it wouldn't have killed them to do concept art for all minis and 1 or 2 greens (resin cast and painted) in advance.
.

Yes, although the whole purpose of this KS is that it will be very much 'for the people, by the people', it's not just as simple as knocking up some random greens and saying "ok give us money", and to do so would kind of defeat the purpose - using the guys they have on board for design (and they have some real talent involved here) we should be seeing some concept sketches soon, and then these will either get a 'yay' or 'nay' in terms of community consensus and whether people might want to play or use that race, perhaps with some alterations. Presumably then we will be less likely to get something like the 'Skinnies' from Starship troopers (or Squats - ho ho ho ) or some other race that most people will have no interest in. So, possibly the best of both worlds in that regard, although the price to pay is that it needs some community involvement. I suppose the truth will tell whether this gets enough backers, and hindsight will indicate if it was overly ambitious and doomed to failure, or an astute move!

One thing's for sure and that is it's already getting a lot of interest and topics being posted on their forums, a lot of enthusiasm, and a lot of ideas being thrown about. At the time of writing it's hit £22,000 which isn't bad for the first day - be interesting to see if that is sustained over the next week or so, and whether this KS has endurance. I'm guessing though we are going to be getting a lot more stretch goals and a lot more details soon?

This is one of the few Kickstarters where it actually feels like it's really funding a business model instead of a glorified preorder system. We are the crowdfunding (instead of a bank) and we've been pitched an idea. Everyone's gotten used to the last year's worth of "this is already coming out anyway but if you pay now then we'll give you a pile of extra junk oh and it'll probably ship really late too".

^^This^^!

Really, I love KS projects like SW, Bones, DB et al (KoW is a bit of an odd one out in the sense that they really, really did a lot of stuff they never anticipated doing this way but would have done over the next year or two,three anyway) where we just get a fethton of goodies for paying early and having a little faith -- but this has it's own kind of appeal.
Now many of us (me included ) can't draw worth gak but getting on a forum and discussing pretty pictures is something we can all do - and really, for that GBP122 I think I'm going to have a whole lot of fun with this even before anything ships or one game is played

Still people need to remember it's early days yet we've got 58 days to go where they can put a lot more out there, they're probably counting on Rick being a major factor in the first few days of draw at least. Then they can start really pumping out the info, I doubt with the people involved they'd allow it to flop. Plus it's hardly just Rick that's a big name here, John Stallard is the CEO of warlord games and an ex-CEO at Games Workshop. Kevin White is the owner of Hasslefree Miniatures, Bob Naismith created a huge chunk of Space Marines, and Tim Prow has a great catalogue of miniatures including some of my favourites from Reaper as well as a lot of the heroclix range.

I certainly don't mean to come across too much like I've been supping the kool-aid though, there are always going to be things people don't like about a project. I personally like that they've left things free to be changed by the backers, they really do seem passionate about making this as much about us as them. Anyway I don't want to keep rambling on, a little nugget to show they really are listening and adjusting on the fly already:

Hi Backers!
We're somewhat overwhelmed by the support you guys have given us, so thank you very much for backing us! We're bringing in the new year with a bang!

Yet again a number of you have contacted us wanting us to split out our offerings in a new tier, this time is was collectors rather than players, so we've added a new reward tier just for you:

Collectors Singularity Hansa - £305 - Limited to 10 = Collectors Edition Backers Rulebook + Custom Painted Hansa + Roll of Honour + Big Bang Reward Tier (Graphic coming soon!) (Free Shipping)

We have a more 'normal' update coming later this evening once we've gotten ahead a little!

Have a great 2013!

GoA Team

If they keep up that speed of update and do keep listening to us then I'll be sticking with it regardless, I've been tremendously disappointed by for example the current Wyrd kickstarter where they've shown what verges on disdain for the backers.

 endtransmission wrote:
See. I'm sat on the other side of this fence. I think the kickstarter is great and love the idea of getting involved this early in the process as it means I've actually got a say in how the universe and models pan out. We've seen with Sedition wars that they didn't seem to actually want feedback on the sketches and greens they showed; this project on the other hand really does. Yes, the production costs are high, but there have been higher goals... if it doesn't reach it, then you've not lost anything by backing it. If it does... the rules discussed so far on the forum seem like a great concept and the models don't seem particularly pricy for what you are getting.

I wouldn't object to the group effort if they weren't asking for money before things were finalised. You think you've got a say in how the universe and models pan out, I think not-me has a say in how the models I've (hypothetically) already paid for pan out. I don't want to give them a few hundred bucks only to see the masses talk them out of making anything I want to own.

OTOH this involves the same folks who will actually be paying.
To each his own, I guess.

Ok..So Rick Priestly has been roped in too help a company go Head to Head with GW but dont want to risk their own cash so want us to pay for it.

Im pretty sure Mantic already do a alternative Sci Fi tabletop game.

Keep your cash folks all you will be doing is funding their little project for a couple of years then they will can it or it will die a slow painful death.

GBDarkAngel wrote:
Ok..So Rick Priestly has been roped in too help a company go Head to Head with GW but dont want to risk their own cash so want us to pay for it.

Im pretty sure Mantic already do a alternative Sci Fi tabletop game.

Keep your cash folks all you will be doing is funding their little project for a couple of years then they will can it or it will die a slow painful death.

What point are your trying to make here? Yes, Kickstarter is a way to have the public fund an idea instead of a bank. Do you need more information about how it works?

While I'm still rather unsure of this. I don't think it's fair to say that Rick Priestley has been 'roped in' as some sort of 'celebrity' endorsement.

From some of the stories I've heard, the concept is something quite close to Priestley's heart.

GBDarkAngel wrote:
Ok..So Rick Priestly has been roped in too help a company go Head to Head with GW but dont want to risk their own cash so want us to pay for it.

Im pretty sure Mantic already do a alternative Sci Fi tabletop game.

Keep your cash folks all you will be doing is funding their little project for a couple of years then they will can it or it will die a slow painful death.

I think this is going for a *maximum* 40-50 minis each side - while warpath might be at that point now, it certainly isn't intended to stay that way after a decent kickstarter with plenty of hard plastic models etc...
Besides, the way this game is said to use active/reactive model mechanics the way they're hinting at gives it a whole other, more 'detailed' smaller scale skirmish feel entirely!

Keep our cash? Why? If I have fun with stuff costing me ~150-180 pounds for a year or two, three - that's called quite good value per hour of fun, where I'm from
Also, since I'll probably get two complete well-playable sides just from the KS without *ever* having to buy anything again - I effectively have a self-contained game I could pick up 20 years from now even if it bombs. Sure, the online component will be gone but the battles are independent from that, so what's there to worry? It's fethin Rick Priestly and Warlord Games - they'll deliver on the game and the models; anything after that is a bonus.

...And besides, plenty of games keep a small, but active, player base long after they're gone from FLGSs and webstores. You just gotta know where to look!

 Compel wrote:
While I'm still rather unsure of this. I don't think it's fair to say that Rick Priestley has been 'roped in' as some sort of 'celebrity' endorsement.

From some of the stories I've heard, the concept is something quite close to Priestley's heart.

Yes I believe he is the head designer. I'm guessing that the set-up is something like the one of the team that made 40k; Rick with some of the other game design 'cabal' (I believe even some of the guys who helped make 40k), but this time of course the communication/feedback between the designers and the people who are commenting on the forum - something that was obviously not possible 25 years ago.

GBDarkAngel - you need to read the rest of the Kickstarter info. Actually, even a paragraph or two, to realise what this game is about before dismissing it out of hand mate.

It sounds like it is very much designed for gamers first and modellers/fluff..ers? second. I wish them the best of luck and hope you all get what you want, but I can't see anything to get excited about here.

Wake me up when they have some designs for the drones. Good designs, I mean.

Possibly problem with having the community design the things is that the people with the loudest shouts get the most to say and could keep others from seriously chipping in, like with those other plastic Guard stand-ins that were very much moulded by a small group of people who made sure nobody else could get input in on the final designs.

...What plastic guard stand-ins were that?
We'll see - I think these guys know they'll have to moderate the debate to make sure such a thing doesn't happen and really, the best way to prevent it from happening is jumping into, not staying out of, the fray

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It sounds like it is very much designed for gamers first and modellers/fluff..ers? second. .

I don't mean to sound rude by saying this mate but you really need to read the opening preamble on the kickstarters page. One of the central tenets of this project is that, rather than already having firm ideas in mind for the model and game concepts, it is molded partly with input from the community that want to take part in it.

There is lots to be excited about with this project - again if you read on through the admittedly long-winded KS opening page, the whole ideas of this community shaped game universe and game mechanics, with real-time updates and progression of the universe (that utilises the communication/feedback technologies made possible only in the past few years), makes me think this has the potential to be something quite special and unlike anything we have seen before*. Although 'potential' is the operative word here. (and also why it's important that as many people as possible back this project! )

* I say 'unlike anything we have seen before' in the sense that it could create a new and fun way to play - not just some new miniature that has 15 legs, body appendages or whatever

Went for Feeder.

Why?

Cause no game Rick designed in the last 30 years and he was allowed to pour his heartblood into ever let me down. Even today most of them are fun to play.

And GoA is a work of love by Rick and other GW-veterans. The game they wanted to do but due to several reasons never were able to do. Until now.

And don´t worry about the loudest having the say where the game goes... in the end the designer decides and Rick rather goes for good design suggestions than most vocal shouts.

Also in for a Feeder special, it has the potential to be something amazing and I'm happy to go on faith with what Rick has been posting up on the forums. They've got the team together and while they've set a high target that is what they consider neccessary to make this a success rather than just half hearting it.

As for the designs being public centred, it'll likely help alot with brainstorming but having the proper creative team able to pick and choose concepts prevents it descending into idiocy.

 Pacific wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It sounds like it is very much designed for gamers first and modellers/fluff..ers? second. .

I don't mean to sound rude by saying this mate but you really need to read the opening preamble on the kickstarters page. One of the central tenets of this project is that, rather than already having firm ideas in mind for the model and game concepts, it is molded partly with input from the community that want to take part in it.

I did read it. Or, I started to and then my eyes glazed over because it was talking about stuff that doesn't interest me. So I skipped to the next paragraph.
And the next.
And the next.
...Something about D10s...
Some biographical info...
Aha! Model sketches! Wait, is that General Kale from Tim Burton's Nightmare Before The Planet Of The Apes? And some kind of Werewolf? That sketch isn't even up to Blanche standards of detail.
Close tab.


And if I want to take part in designing a model, I'll design it myself and print it from shapeways or something. What you're describing is the Liberty and Union League all over again. How did their sci-fi soldiers turn out, again?

There is lots to be excited about with this project - again if you read on through the admittedly long-winded KS opening page,

No. Assimilation Host and Dreamforge had long-winded opening pages, in an admittedly adorable way. This opening page would make Proust twirl his fingers with impatience.

the whole ideas of this community shaped game universe and game mechanics,

Sounds great for gamers. My point stands.

with real-time updates and progression of the universe

Sounds great for gamers. Again, what's this got to do with me?

(that utilises the communication/feedback technologies made possible only in the past few years),

This sounds like trouble in the making. For gamers.

makes me think this has the potential to be something quite special and unlike anything we have seen before*. Although 'potential' is the operative word here. (and also why it's important that as many people as possible back this project! )

* I say 'unlike anything we have seen before' in the sense that it could create a new and fun way to play - not just some new miniature that has 15 legs, body appendages or whatever

Let me get this straight: I say, "Sounds great for gamers. I am not a gamer." And you respond, "No, you're wrong. It will be lots of fun to play and have gaming things for gamers who game and maybe a model for gamers." Is that where we are now?

 kenshin620 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
. With digital sculpting and plastic production now so easily accessible that small companies like Wyrd and Soda Pop can go all-plastic, even for skirmish games where they can only expect to sell 1 of each model to a given customer, there really is no excuse for not going that route.

Remember though, these guys are in the UK and are partnered with Warlord

The only plastic option these people know is the Bottleneck known as Renedra

Unless they go "restic" of course like Mantic (who also have problems finding hard plastic options)

Warlord make hard plastic kits....

JamieisOOP wrote:

 kenshin620 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
. With digital sculpting and plastic production now so easily accessible that small companies like Wyrd and Soda Pop can go all-plastic, even for skirmish games where they can only expect to sell 1 of each model to a given customer, there really is no excuse for not going that route.

Remember though, these guys are in the UK and are partnered with Warlord

The only plastic option these people know is the Bottleneck known as Renedra

Unless they go "restic" of course like Mantic (who also have problems finding hard plastic options)

Warlord make hard plastic kits....

From Rendra.

I'm guessing they might just have arranged for a reserved spot in advance
also, with renedra booked that full so consistently I can't imagine they're not looking to expand...

 Cyporiean wrote:

JamieisOOP wrote:

 kenshin620 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
. With digital sculpting and plastic production now so easily accessible that small companies like Wyrd and Soda Pop can go all-plastic, even for skirmish games where they can only expect to sell 1 of each model to a given customer, there really is no excuse for not going that route.

Remember though, these guys are in the UK and are partnered with Warlord

The only plastic option these people know is the Bottleneck known as Renedra

Unless they go "restic" of course like Mantic (who also have problems finding hard plastic options)

Warlord make hard plastic kits....

From Rendra.

Are you sure? I know Renedra make plastic tents, fences and other scenery, but I though Warlord was responsible for the plastic figures. Renedra may do the tooling and injection molding but Warlord seems to have Warlord on the packaging, but keeps the Renedra name on the scenery items. I have Warlord Zulus and Brits and they are great figures. Warlord offer a ton of plastics. If Renedra is a bottleneck I don't see how Warlord can have so many new releases and stock and sell the volume they do...

I'm guessing Warlord is one of the bigger reasons Renedra is so packed of late

What a fantastic response we've had from our early-bird backers!

When we set up our Kickstarter we realised we were asking a lot from gamers, especially because we were starting a brand new project from scratch, and because it's a new project we didn't have much to offer you all except for dreams and enthusiasm. This is - of course - what Kickstarter was created for - but we know that many other successful miniatures Kickstarters have begun with existing ranges and games behind them.

So, yes, we are asking you guys to take a leap of faith on the strength of the team we have lined up, and naturally some folks said it couldn't be done. Well - I guess now at least we know it can be done!

So thank you everyone who has pledged their support and enthusiasm – thank you very much! Both Rik (that’s the other one), John and I have been overwhelmed by your response; we never imagined our project would get off to such a great start!

And yes it is a start – there’s still loads to do and we need you help to do it too. Beyond the Gates of Antares is something I've been wanting to do for longer than I care to admit - and it's only now with the advent of globally accessible information that it's become possible. What I'm aiming to create is a living universe that is not only inhabited by the players but where the players take part in the development of the back-story is a way that has never been realised before. Here then is the ambition - to build a universe that is infinitely and indefinitely expandable - a universe ripe for adventure and battle - and ultimately a universe that will encompass all that is best in science-fiction gaming.

Here’s to 2013 and Beyond the Gates of Antares! Happy New Year everyone.
Rick Priestley

Help us spread the word
We need to make sure everybody knows about us, so we've made some facilitatory artwork to help spread the word. GoA is all about involving you guys right at the start and our first job is to get us funded!

So get creative on it, anything you can think of to spread the word from wandering around your home town with a robot WarDrone suit on (ok, so we haven’t actually made any but a simple cardboard box with the words “I’m a WarDrone – Pledge NOW or my IMTel nano-drones will infect you” will probably work!) to downloading this PDF (http://www.darkspacecorp.com/ks-flyer/), emailing it to your friends and relatives, printing it out and handing it out to literally everyone you come across, you can even get some blu-tack and stick it on the foreheads of shop owners if you like! (apologies if you are actually a shop owner… stick it to a customer’s forehead perhaps? )

Anyway, the point is: If you tell as many people as possible there’s a much better chance of us first: hitting first our funding target, and second: hitting some of our stretch goals and ultimately giving you even more cool stuff to play with.

CptJake wrote:

From Rendra.

Are you sure? I know Renedra make plastic tents, fences and other scenery, but I though Warlord was responsible for the plastic figures. Renedra may do the tooling and injection molding but Warlord seems to have Warlord on the packaging, but keeps the Renedra name on the scenery items. I have Warlord Zulus and Brits and they are great figures. Warlord offer a ton of plastics. If Renedra is a bottleneck I don't see how Warlord can have so many new releases and stock and sell the volume they do...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


*snip*

Ah right, I initially read your post as a general 'nothing new to see here - move along'. Sorry for the that, although I'm honoured by the multiple quotes and post dissection

Regarding the models/miniatures specifically it looks like they've got some extremely talented sculptors on board for the project - in the same way that 40k initially provided a melting pot of miniature and concept design talent, perhaps there is the possibility of that happening again here?

For the War Drones in particular, only confirmation I have read over on the forums so far is that they will be multi-part and customisable plastics (which I guess was always going to be a bit of a no brainer!)

++EDIT++ Pledges are now above £25,000 and with more than 200 backers, not bad for the first day.

 Bolognesus wrote:
Check the pledge descriptions again. the feeder box is explicitly described as containing the digital download.
All higher pledge levels contain that Feeder box.

Which high pledge levels do not contain the digital download, according to you?

EDIT: Finally found it, and yep, there's a little image of a digital rulebook in feeder.

I still think the ones between The Beginning! and Feeder! should come with the digital rulebook. It doesn't cost Warlord any extra to send out a digital file to some mroe email addresses and they are pledging more than the The Beginning! The 25, 60 and 70 pound levels don't contain the digital download, but do have printed rules.

Feeder is the sweet spot on this one, but this whole KS looks like a mess right now. Hopefully they'll get it straightened out, put up some more actual content and not just have multiple blacked out silhouettes instead of miniatures.

And the demony things with unicorn head spikes. Ugh.

@Warlord

Or you buy your own injection moulding equipment.

@Bob

You really need to read the text below the pictures and not only scan over everything quickly.

@augustin

Seems to me that the reading capabilities of quite some are more in need of organization.

Sidebar and central collumn do not contradict each other. But naturally there´s not that much space in the sidebar to list everything in detail.

Personally Bob, I don't blame you for not being interested since they really don't have anything to show yet (I'm disappointed in the lack of actual models to show off...yes, even me, an evil gamer hell bent on killing your fun and your hobby), but seriously, did a gamer kick your fething dog or something? There are plenty of other games out there that cater to modelers/fluffers, 40k being one of them, and I don't think the world will end if one sci-fi wargame hits the market that actually has some thought put into the damn rules.

I don't even see why you're making all these assumptions anyway, nothing I've seen so far tells me that this will be any better-balanced than any other game.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:

@augustin

Seems to me that the reading capabilities of quite some are more in need of organization.

No, the KS page really is a mess. And it still sucks that you can pledge 70 pounds and not get a zero cost to the publisher digital download.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And this is not sci-fi:


That's more GW style grimdark space fantasy nonsense.

Agustin, I took this comment from the forum as it's not immediately obvious on the KS page (and in fact, someone needs to tell the GoA admin guys that this is causing confusion):

(Regarding Bruno Lavallee's sculpts)

Bruno is another one of our collaborators and has some amazing work to show off - Again, please note that these miniatures are NOT part of the GoA universe - though they may be at some point!

So, they are there to show the ability of the sculptors and also the design/production process, rather than necessarily the actual miniatures for use in the game (although I'm guessing at least a couple of them might be applicable!). But yet this needs to be indicated more clearly.

I'll make a comment about this on their forum page, and also your comment about the £70 pledge not getting the digital download - I completely agree with you about that point.

Agreed they need to clearly state that the miniatures shown do not represent the game miniatures in anyway they are just examples of the sculptors work

The human trooper by Kevin White is a Hasslefree miniature - Bergil and is available from their store

http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=bergil~hfa090&category=miniatures~modern-adventurers

The Alien couldn't be used even if they want to as it contains GW parts - both the right claw and left hand.

I backed this last night at Feeder level when it went live I'm willing to sit back and see how it develops and have a little faith in the development team Rick Priestley has designed some of my favorite games and Kev White did a lot of the Sedition Wars stuff (He has sculpted all of the Colonial Vangaurd range including the new Samaritans. He also sculpted a couple of Firebrand Minis - the T.H.I. Carapace and Vokker Dargu) so he knows how to do Sci-Fi troops, but if there's no sign of any coherent rules or miniature greens by day 57 I'll have to reconsider - 2 months is plenty of time for them to get this right.

agustin wrote:

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:

@augustin

Seems to me that the reading capabilities of quite some are more in need of organization.

No, the KS page really is a mess.

Yes. Of course. It would *never* be your fault.

You do realize there's only so much that can be done with a KS project page, right? it's actually **quite** obvious -- if you take the time to actually read, instead of just skimming the sidebar.
And really, that digital version? It's not an issue to most folks. Not because they wouldn't use it - simply because noone in their right mind is going to feel guilty over using a "pirated" PDF of a book they have right on their bookshelf anyway...

Kinda of interested in this project, its pretty cool being able to help create the races/universe, I would love the idea of designing some aliens, always wanted to take a stab at that and the chance, even if its slim for them to be included in the game in some fashion or another is just amazing to me.

Better break out the sketchbook and sculpting tools for this one.

Aha! Model sketches! Wait, is that General Kale from Tim Burton's Nightmare Before The Planet Of The Apes? And some kind of Werewolf? That sketch isn't even up to Blanche standards of detail. Close tab.

Actually as far as early concepts go those sketchs are fine, when you create early concepts you aim to establish the overall form and "idea" in a simple effective manner, you do not focus on details and making the design/image "pretty" as it were, just saying.

Then get out there and register on those forums! Really got the impression they actually listen

Ok ok I will, I just need to finsh off my current projects (I'm sculpting tyranids and Tau girls) and I'll get straight to it captain.

Out of question hows the commuitiy for this project so far, any .... issues?

Not that I know of. I've yet to really dive in myself, though

It's going to be interesting to see how they handle the "faction which wins the most games gets bonuses and new weapons to use and gets new models sculpted first" thing.

Won't that make the faction which is already the most overpowered, even more overpowered?

Or possibly lead to widespread BS'ing of the battle reporting from players who want to see their faction get the new shinies first?

I don't think it'll be quite like that. Although, I do see a concern for, I guess you could call it the 'Space Marine' effect.

Ruleswise, I wouldn't be too concerned, communities have shown that, providing the designers listen, the internet can avoid the biggest bs things.

And I suppose new weapons etc won't be a huge deal providing the game is well balanced.

 scarletsquig wrote:
It's going to be interesting to see how they handle the "faction which wins the most games gets bonuses and new weapons to use and gets new models sculpted first" thing.

Won't that make the faction which is already the most overpowered, even more overpowered?

Or possibly lead to widespread BS'ing of the battle reporting from players who want to see their faction get the new shinies first?

That's exactly one of my biggest concerns regarding the whole battle-reporting thing, the "Space Marine effect" as Compel calls it. I don't really see any way to avoid this kind of thing, unless of course the players don't actually have as much input as they claim.

i think they went over in the ks comments that they are going to have a 3 part verification system where both players have to be registered in order to log results. I guess in theory it could still be open to abuse just not as easily... but if i guy has to fake results it is probably the last thing he has in his life to hold on to so give him that much lol

i do like being able to access the files for play testing and giving active feed back. You can be the best play testing group but when you open up to a thousand or so eyes you can catch things you didn't see before.

The fact that they have 10% raised already with 57 days left to go is probably a good sign that they'll get it (I hope). I'm probably sitting this kickstarter out, waiting for the Warpath one, but if some actual sculpts for this game start showing up on there I may change my mind. I'm only saying no until I see a bunch of models that I like (that alien is amazing though!) for this specific game.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Personally Bob, I don't blame you for not being interested since they really don't have anything to show yet (I'm disappointed in the lack of actual models to show off...yes, even me, an evil gamer hell bent on killing your fun and your hobby), but seriously, did a gamer kick your fething dog or something? There are plenty of other games out there that cater to modelers/fluffers, 40k being one of them, and I don't think the world will end if one sci-fi wargame hits the market that actually has some thought put into the damn rules.

I don't even see why you're making all these assumptions anyway, nothing I've seen so far tells me that this will be any better-balanced than any other game.

I'm not sure where you think I said I was upset at gamers or Antares. I simply said I wished them well, but that I wasn't interested since they didn't have a lot of info on the models. They had information on how models are designed, which is just as much ass-blown smoke as describing how you need to have magic rules in a fantasy rpg KS, but nothing to make me want their models. Sure, they have great talent. Lots of Kickstarters do. But that doesn't mean that I want to back them. Heck, if there were a nice GBP20 level pledge for just some drones, that would be much, much more tempting. So far, every KS I've pledged in has found a way to sell me on models that don't exist yet.

The gamer thing comes in from the fact that they talk a lot about what will make this game different and revolutionary, but nothing on what makes the models look unique. They have targeted their market, and they will probably do quite well. As someone who is interested in miniatures and solid fluff but can't play the game, I think this KS is seriously lacking. At first, it just looked like a naked cashgrab, even. The background is nice, but it's nothing that couldn't be thrown together from recent space opera (and 2001's Grand Central Station stargate junction) in about an hour. It's very clear that most of the thought and effort put into this game was put into the game mechanics.

If I sound defensive now, it's because I can't believe how much flack I'm getting for wanting to actually see something I'm interested in before plunking down money. Is Antares entitled to my cash just because Jesus Priestley hath spoken for them? Man, what will you do when you find out I didn't back Felix Panigua's Indiegogo because I didn't think it provided sufficient value for money? The thread's going to look like the end of a Cormac McCarthy novel...


EDIT: Rolt, I get that. I know how the design process works. I just find it ...if not unprofessional, then at least a little disheartening that that is all they have to show us. It might be nice to see a few completed prototype sculpts, or some fleshed out sketches that indicate a style they are aiming for or something. When Mantic threw up a bunch of napkin-doodle designs, they at least had a) an established portfolio of completed models for use to use as a basis for judgement, and b) the plausible excuse that they never imagined they would hit $300,000 or whatever, and had run out of fresh material. I just don't believe that Anatres needed to drop this KS so fast that they didn't have time to do more sketches or plan out a better presentation. Hell, they could have just waited a month more and gotten the rest of their ducks in a row, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 Sidstyler wrote:
That's exactly one of my biggest concerns regarding the whole battle-reporting thing, the "Space Marine effect" as Compel calls it. I don't really see any way to avoid this kind of thing, unless of course the players don't actually have as much input as they claim.

The way to avoid it is to make the battle-reporting affect the flavour and not the quantity or quality of the support. Maybe winning a bunch of games gets Faction A a new tank commander special character to represent a hero of the successful campaign, while Faction B gets a new unit of tank hunters.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The gamer thing comes in from the fact that they talk a lot about what will make this game different and revolutionary, but nothing on what makes the models look unique. They have targeted their market, and they will probably do quite well. As someone who is interested in miniatures and solid fluff but can't play the game, I think this KS is seriously lacking. At first, it just looked like a naked cashgrab, even. The background is nice, but it's nothing that couldn't be thrown together from recent space opera (and 2001's Grand Central Station stargate junction) in about an hour. It's very clear that most of the thought and effort put into this game was put into the game mechanics.

I still think it's silly to crap on a game designer for putting thought and effort into game mechanics...like he should be. Other than that I agree with you and I wouldn't put money down on it, either, not until they have greens to show at least. I want a well-written game but I'm not interested in wasting money on ugly models, or paying for a product when I have no idea what the finished product will actually look like.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
That's exactly one of my biggest concerns regarding the whole battle-reporting thing, the "Space Marine effect" as Compel calls it. I don't really see any way to avoid this kind of thing, unless of course the players don't actually have as much input as they claim.

The way to avoid it is to make the battle-reporting affect the flavour and not the quantity or quality of the support. Maybe winning a bunch of games gets Faction A a new tank commander special character to represent a hero of the successful campaign, while Faction B gets a new unit of tank hunters.

Actually, the whole "living, breathing universe" thing can be used to prevent just that: while a dominant faction might get the 'big' toys - a smaller faction would get meaner, nastier guerilla stuff; all in an game which changes often, as opposed to a "codex every five years - if you're lucky" model.

£430 to get your name printed in the rulebook? Man, I got that for a lot less with Mantic.

@Bob

One of the discussions on the forum (which is very friendly and creative so far*) is about designing the models to be as flexible as possible for those of us more interested in the modelling side of things than the gaming side. There is already talk of trying to make the non-robotic models have separate heads and space for additional gear to be added so they can look at doing add on packs like desert gear, winter gear and hazardous wasteland gear that provide new heads, packs and equipment.

The universe is also set up so that everything is open to interpretation by the modeller. The Rever faction consists of a loose band of different planets, each will have evolved differently so they look different; The NuHu faction use masses of implants which can change how they look; genetic fiddling or evolution on individual planets can give people vastly different looks to the extent that there could, if a gamer/modeller felt like it, they could have a race of cat people. There are also a multitude of unknown alien species out there in the galaxy so you can always do a counts-as force without getting told you can't.


*possibly with the exception of the poor guy who suggested Space Rats as a new race and proceeded to detail something that was almost an exact description of Skaven

I do currently understand peoples apprehension, especially those who are modellers first given that they essentially havent been shown anything they can "work with", obviously for people interested in background we have a loose angle, some game mechanics hints but without a true show of what the artistic and modelling style will be it may be harder to get excited.

What I would say however that as a modeller I am excited by this project purely because of being able to have an input at the early stages, I feel like I can try and steer the team into making models that interest me, that are cross compatible and convertible and in a universe where I can take my own artistic inspirations and create something truly unique.

As the project unfolds we should get more ideas as to the art and modelling style the teams has in mind but its a great time to contribute on the GoA forums with your own personal modelling ideas.

I'm going to lock this thread as we now have an 'official' thread run by company representatives, so please take your commentary over there:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/497777.page


And as always, even if you hate something, please remember to express your feelings politely!