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Agreed they need to clearly state that the miniatures shown do not represent the game miniatures in anyway they are just examples of the sculptors work

The human trooper by Kevin White is a Hasslefree miniature - Bergil and is available from their store

http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=bergil~hfa090&category=miniatures~modern-adventurers

The Alien couldn't be used even if they want to as it contains GW parts - both the right claw and left hand.

I backed this last night at Feeder level when it went live I'm willing to sit back and see how it develops and have a little faith in the development team Rick Priestley has designed some of my favorite games and Kev White did a lot of the Sedition Wars stuff (He has sculpted all of the Colonial Vangaurd range including the new Samaritans. He also sculpted a couple of Firebrand Minis - the T.H.I. Carapace and Vokker Dargu) so he knows how to do Sci-Fi troops, but if there's no sign of any coherent rules or miniature greens by day 57 I'll have to reconsider - 2 months is plenty of time for them to get this right.

agustin wrote:

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:

@augustin

Seems to me that the reading capabilities of quite some are more in need of organization.

No, the KS page really is a mess.

Yes. Of course. It would *never* be your fault.

You do realize there's only so much that can be done with a KS project page, right? it's actually **quite** obvious -- if you take the time to actually read, instead of just skimming the sidebar.
And really, that digital version? It's not an issue to most folks. Not because they wouldn't use it - simply because noone in their right mind is going to feel guilty over using a "pirated" PDF of a book they have right on their bookshelf anyway...

Kinda of interested in this project, its pretty cool being able to help create the races/universe, I would love the idea of designing some aliens, always wanted to take a stab at that and the chance, even if its slim for them to be included in the game in some fashion or another is just amazing to me.

Better break out the sketchbook and sculpting tools for this one.

Aha! Model sketches! Wait, is that General Kale from Tim Burton's Nightmare Before The Planet Of The Apes? And some kind of Werewolf? That sketch isn't even up to Blanche standards of detail. Close tab.

Actually as far as early concepts go those sketchs are fine, when you create early concepts you aim to establish the overall form and "idea" in a simple effective manner, you do not focus on details and making the design/image "pretty" as it were, just saying.

Then get out there and register on those forums! Really got the impression they actually listen

Ok ok I will, I just need to finsh off my current projects (I'm sculpting tyranids and Tau girls) and I'll get straight to it captain.

Out of question hows the commuitiy for this project so far, any .... issues?

Not that I know of. I've yet to really dive in myself, though

It's going to be interesting to see how they handle the "faction which wins the most games gets bonuses and new weapons to use and gets new models sculpted first" thing.

Won't that make the faction which is already the most overpowered, even more overpowered?

Or possibly lead to widespread BS'ing of the battle reporting from players who want to see their faction get the new shinies first?

I don't think it'll be quite like that. Although, I do see a concern for, I guess you could call it the 'Space Marine' effect.

Ruleswise, I wouldn't be too concerned, communities have shown that, providing the designers listen, the internet can avoid the biggest bs things.

And I suppose new weapons etc won't be a huge deal providing the game is well balanced.

 scarletsquig wrote:
It's going to be interesting to see how they handle the "faction which wins the most games gets bonuses and new weapons to use and gets new models sculpted first" thing.

Won't that make the faction which is already the most overpowered, even more overpowered?

Or possibly lead to widespread BS'ing of the battle reporting from players who want to see their faction get the new shinies first?

That's exactly one of my biggest concerns regarding the whole battle-reporting thing, the "Space Marine effect" as Compel calls it. I don't really see any way to avoid this kind of thing, unless of course the players don't actually have as much input as they claim.

i think they went over in the ks comments that they are going to have a 3 part verification system where both players have to be registered in order to log results. I guess in theory it could still be open to abuse just not as easily... but if i guy has to fake results it is probably the last thing he has in his life to hold on to so give him that much lol

i do like being able to access the files for play testing and giving active feed back. You can be the best play testing group but when you open up to a thousand or so eyes you can catch things you didn't see before.

The fact that they have 10% raised already with 57 days left to go is probably a good sign that they'll get it (I hope). I'm probably sitting this kickstarter out, waiting for the Warpath one, but if some actual sculpts for this game start showing up on there I may change my mind. I'm only saying no until I see a bunch of models that I like (that alien is amazing though!) for this specific game.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Personally Bob, I don't blame you for not being interested since they really don't have anything to show yet (I'm disappointed in the lack of actual models to show off...yes, even me, an evil gamer hell bent on killing your fun and your hobby), but seriously, did a gamer kick your fething dog or something? There are plenty of other games out there that cater to modelers/fluffers, 40k being one of them, and I don't think the world will end if one sci-fi wargame hits the market that actually has some thought put into the damn rules.

I don't even see why you're making all these assumptions anyway, nothing I've seen so far tells me that this will be any better-balanced than any other game.

I'm not sure where you think I said I was upset at gamers or Antares. I simply said I wished them well, but that I wasn't interested since they didn't have a lot of info on the models. They had information on how models are designed, which is just as much ass-blown smoke as describing how you need to have magic rules in a fantasy rpg KS, but nothing to make me want their models. Sure, they have great talent. Lots of Kickstarters do. But that doesn't mean that I want to back them. Heck, if there were a nice GBP20 level pledge for just some drones, that would be much, much more tempting. So far, every KS I've pledged in has found a way to sell me on models that don't exist yet.

The gamer thing comes in from the fact that they talk a lot about what will make this game different and revolutionary, but nothing on what makes the models look unique. They have targeted their market, and they will probably do quite well. As someone who is interested in miniatures and solid fluff but can't play the game, I think this KS is seriously lacking. At first, it just looked like a naked cashgrab, even. The background is nice, but it's nothing that couldn't be thrown together from recent space opera (and 2001's Grand Central Station stargate junction) in about an hour. It's very clear that most of the thought and effort put into this game was put into the game mechanics.

If I sound defensive now, it's because I can't believe how much flack I'm getting for wanting to actually see something I'm interested in before plunking down money. Is Antares entitled to my cash just because Jesus Priestley hath spoken for them? Man, what will you do when you find out I didn't back Felix Panigua's Indiegogo because I didn't think it provided sufficient value for money? The thread's going to look like the end of a Cormac McCarthy novel...


EDIT: Rolt, I get that. I know how the design process works. I just find it ...if not unprofessional, then at least a little disheartening that that is all they have to show us. It might be nice to see a few completed prototype sculpts, or some fleshed out sketches that indicate a style they are aiming for or something. When Mantic threw up a bunch of napkin-doodle designs, they at least had a) an established portfolio of completed models for use to use as a basis for judgement, and b) the plausible excuse that they never imagined they would hit $300,000 or whatever, and had run out of fresh material. I just don't believe that Anatres needed to drop this KS so fast that they didn't have time to do more sketches or plan out a better presentation. Hell, they could have just waited a month more and gotten the rest of their ducks in a row, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 Sidstyler wrote:
That's exactly one of my biggest concerns regarding the whole battle-reporting thing, the "Space Marine effect" as Compel calls it. I don't really see any way to avoid this kind of thing, unless of course the players don't actually have as much input as they claim.

The way to avoid it is to make the battle-reporting affect the flavour and not the quantity or quality of the support. Maybe winning a bunch of games gets Faction A a new tank commander special character to represent a hero of the successful campaign, while Faction B gets a new unit of tank hunters.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The gamer thing comes in from the fact that they talk a lot about what will make this game different and revolutionary, but nothing on what makes the models look unique. They have targeted their market, and they will probably do quite well. As someone who is interested in miniatures and solid fluff but can't play the game, I think this KS is seriously lacking. At first, it just looked like a naked cashgrab, even. The background is nice, but it's nothing that couldn't be thrown together from recent space opera (and 2001's Grand Central Station stargate junction) in about an hour. It's very clear that most of the thought and effort put into this game was put into the game mechanics.

I still think it's silly to crap on a game designer for putting thought and effort into game mechanics...like he should be. Other than that I agree with you and I wouldn't put money down on it, either, not until they have greens to show at least. I want a well-written game but I'm not interested in wasting money on ugly models, or paying for a product when I have no idea what the finished product will actually look like.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
That's exactly one of my biggest concerns regarding the whole battle-reporting thing, the "Space Marine effect" as Compel calls it. I don't really see any way to avoid this kind of thing, unless of course the players don't actually have as much input as they claim.

The way to avoid it is to make the battle-reporting affect the flavour and not the quantity or quality of the support. Maybe winning a bunch of games gets Faction A a new tank commander special character to represent a hero of the successful campaign, while Faction B gets a new unit of tank hunters.

Actually, the whole "living, breathing universe" thing can be used to prevent just that: while a dominant faction might get the 'big' toys - a smaller faction would get meaner, nastier guerilla stuff; all in an game which changes often, as opposed to a "codex every five years - if you're lucky" model.

£430 to get your name printed in the rulebook? Man, I got that for a lot less with Mantic.

@Bob

One of the discussions on the forum (which is very friendly and creative so far*) is about designing the models to be as flexible as possible for those of us more interested in the modelling side of things than the gaming side. There is already talk of trying to make the non-robotic models have separate heads and space for additional gear to be added so they can look at doing add on packs like desert gear, winter gear and hazardous wasteland gear that provide new heads, packs and equipment.

The universe is also set up so that everything is open to interpretation by the modeller. The Rever faction consists of a loose band of different planets, each will have evolved differently so they look different; The NuHu faction use masses of implants which can change how they look; genetic fiddling or evolution on individual planets can give people vastly different looks to the extent that there could, if a gamer/modeller felt like it, they could have a race of cat people. There are also a multitude of unknown alien species out there in the galaxy so you can always do a counts-as force without getting told you can't.


*possibly with the exception of the poor guy who suggested Space Rats as a new race and proceeded to detail something that was almost an exact description of Skaven

I do currently understand peoples apprehension, especially those who are modellers first given that they essentially havent been shown anything they can "work with", obviously for people interested in background we have a loose angle, some game mechanics hints but without a true show of what the artistic and modelling style will be it may be harder to get excited.

What I would say however that as a modeller I am excited by this project purely because of being able to have an input at the early stages, I feel like I can try and steer the team into making models that interest me, that are cross compatible and convertible and in a universe where I can take my own artistic inspirations and create something truly unique.

As the project unfolds we should get more ideas as to the art and modelling style the teams has in mind but its a great time to contribute on the GoA forums with your own personal modelling ideas.

I'm going to lock this thread as we now have an 'official' thread run by company representatives, so please take your commentary over there:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/497777.page


And as always, even if you hate something, please remember to express your feelings politely!