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I'm going to say that they are critically low on meaty details right now. I know that this is all the prelude to the preorder for the preview sort of stage, but I read a large portion of the website and was not gripped with any sensation of what kind of game it was, let alone what my army would look like, cost like, play like or smell like (?).

I like the idea of more computerisation in games, but I don't think that I know much about Ex Illis that some people have mentioned. What was the score with that?

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I'm going to say that they are critically low on meaty details right now. I know that this is all the prelude to the preorder for the preview sort of stage, but I read a large portion of the website and was not gripped with any sensation of what kind of game it was, let alone what my army would look like, cost like, play like or smell like (?).

I like the idea of more computerisation in games, but I don't think that I know much about Ex Illis that some people have mentioned. What was the score with that?

Ex Illis basically had you do everything on a screen, then incidentally (and, TBH, quite optionally, aside from having to buy the minis to be able to register them) move about some minis on a table. All zone based etc, not distance.
This would seem to have you basically play a 'normal' TT wargame, then upload results and work some magic with that.
I wonder if they'd be fine with games being played over 'virtual' tabletops (what was that program called again? used for batreps as well...).

Anyway, this doesn't seem to go the Ex Illis route (which is good - as much as I like some of the Ex Illis models, that game should burn in the deepest pits of hell alongside it's designers ), but rather more try to augment the game with some added flavour via some centralized battle reporting system.
As long as the community remains relatively small, but active, this could be wickedly awesome.
I just hope they don't go the 'register your stuff online' bullgak route that EI did - I could probably live with it (and I really, really hope the aesthetic and gameplay are somewhat to my liking because I **want** to love this... really do ) but I wouldn't like it and it would turn a lot of folks off.
Still, can't imagine the likes of Priestly being that daft

A computer was mandatory for Ex Illis. According to it's official description " Ex illis is a miniature game like no other. Instead of playing with dice, rulers, and thick rulebooks, you'll use software on your iPod touch, Mac, PC or laptop to resolve battles. This combination of miniatures and software makes Ex illis a deep gameplay experience that's very easy to learn, yet a real challenge to master!"

BtGoA only involves computers if you want to report your battle reports. There is talk of having all the unit stats and an army builder of some sort on the website to allow the forces to all evolve over time based upon the events or when they add new units or FAQs. They seem very keen on avoiding the power creep that we know and... love? in 40K so there is also talk that point values will be higher than the likes of Hordes/warmachine to allow them the ability to fine tune new units properly. There was an interesting post from Rick about how games systems and new units should work together and be driven by the games developer, not a marketing department... sound familiar?

As for scale of the games, Rick has posted on the forums so far, BtGoA is designed to be about the same sort of scale battle as the original 40k, i.e. a couple of units and maybe one vehicle.... so up to about 40 models per side.

Prometheus, Avatar, etc. as they are being discussed in this thread?

Off topic!

Please endeavor to keep this thread on topic - thanks!

 endtransmission wrote:
There was an interesting post from Rick about how games systems and new units should work together and be driven by the games developer, not a marketing department... sound familiar?

As for scale of the games, Rick has posted on the forums so far, BtGoA is designed to be about the same sort of scale battle as the original 40k, i.e. a couple of units and maybe one vehicle.... so up to about 40 models per side.

Call me a cynic, but that first point sounds like an attempt to appeal to some of the anti-GW sentiment in the online crowd - which is the biggest backer/marketing pool for a project like this. Still, as long as the attempt is there it'd be a good thing (and who could be against using actual benefits for marketing )
Second point, yay! that would mean that the GBP125 tier would either get you enough for a full-on army, or two smaller armies so for GBP125/EUR150/USD200 you'd have a complete game, rulebook, models, everything.
Heck, the way I read it now maybe just an additional GBP65 pledge and you'd have two full-size armies.

...now just hope the actual models and game are worth something

On the website where they describe the pledge levels they gave an example of an army list of 240 credits which contained 10 models. Though I'm not sure if that's the average in both points or models I would love the game to be about 15-30 models with an odd vehicle or two thrown in.

I think in the same post they also give a few examples of troop names and what not

It's good to note that they fully intend to add permanent extras to the core box as well as extend the number of credits with stretch goals so the forces will become larger than 10 models. I'm sure I read somewhere that one of the permanent extras to the starter box was a vehicle, but I can't remember where that was now.

Cant remember where I read it but the guys over on the website were saying they intend it to go from a small skirmish level (a squad), to a larger skirmish level with no power creeps and also some form of RPG. I'm sure I read it somewhere but I may have been dreaming it lol.

overtyrant wrote:
Cant remember where I read it but the guys over on the website were saying they intend it to go from a small skirmish level (a squad), to a larger skirmish level with no power creeps and also some form of RPG. I'm sure I read it somewhere but I may have been dreaming it lol.

Yeah, I read that too (at least I definitely remember Rick mentioning a possible RPG). I like the sound of an RPG at some point, but that's probably getting just a little ahead of ourselves...

Still, I've read all the stuff on the website now and have joined the forums. Sounds like an interesting project and one I'd like to get involved with. Who knows what will happen over the next 12 months...

Booyaa wrote:

ogretyrant wrote:Also, I'm assuming the wardrones wont be monopose as that will lead to some very boring 20 miniatures.



we've yet to decide exactly what the WarDrones sprues will have in them but rest assured that it will have lots of customisation options!

on the BtGoA forum. good to hear.

 endtransmission wrote:
A computer was mandatory for Ex Illis. According to it's official description " Ex illis is a miniature game like no other. Instead of playing with dice, rulers, and thick rulebooks, you'll use software on your iPod touch, Mac, PC or laptop to resolve battles. This combination of miniatures and software makes Ex illis a deep gameplay experience that's very easy to learn, yet a real challenge to master!"

Sounds.... odd. I think that perhaps we don't like sufficiently in the future for that.

I agree that ex-GW players are likely a key market for this, which does worry me a bit. I find that ex-GW players can often be tiresome and argumentative, as they feel the need to explain why they don't play, so I wouldn't be interested in a community built around that as a keystone. That said, a skirmish game on the scale of RT/40k 2nd ed could be neat. I do like the idea of a couple squads of guys and a random tank as a force. But they will have to really impress when it comes to the kickstarter and selling the core game concepts and the universe, I think.

I always wonder if introducing vehicals into small skirmish games is sensible

they usually end up overpowered compared to troops (so why bother with troops),

or so weak most troops can knock them out (so why bother with vehicals).... and if your troops weapons are strong enough to smash an armoured vehical why should they not be even more dangerous to people

(ok a bit of exageration above, but still.....)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I always wonder if introducing vehicals into small skirmish games is sensible

they usually end up overpowered compared to troops (so why bother with troops),

or so weak most troops can knock them out (so why bother with vehicals).... and if your troops weapons are strong enough to smash an armoured vehical why should they not be even more dangerous to people

(ok a bit of exageration above, but still.....)

I see your point. On the other hand it can be awesome on a table with a high terrain density. Think vehicles in an urban environment scenario. sure, they're pretty damn powerful but they need infantry for protection etc...
It's a whole extra dimension onto the game. Of course, it's still true that they will draw quite a bit of attention and define what a lot of that game is about...

regarding vehicles, as long as there is no Main Battle Tank analog (or only in larger games), IFV and APC (and Technicals) vehicles certainly have a place in skrimish level. They're hard enough to ignore standard rifle fire but can be taken out with infantry-carried antitank weapons. They're great for providing advancing mobile cover, area saturation on dense terrain (like a Bradley's 25mm peppering a building until it becomes swiss cheese), and quick evacuation - if the system has a campaign or casualty system where it would be necessary to get demoralized or casualties off the table, etc.

yeah,
I always thought the 33AV max total rule worked quite well for skirmish games in 40k (add up the total armour front, side and rear and it must be 33 or under)
so you could have rhinos and kans but not land raiders etc...

Panic...

 chilledmonkeybrains wrote:

overtyrant wrote:
Cant remember where I read it but the guys over on the website were saying they intend it to go from a small skirmish level (a squad), to a larger skirmish level with no power creeps and also some form of RPG. I'm sure I read it somewhere but I may have been dreaming it lol.

Yeah, I read that too (at least I definitely remember Rick mentioning a possible RPG). I like the sound of an RPG at some point, but that's probably getting just a little ahead of ourselves...

Rick said he would like to develop one of each possible game system for this universe, from board game to skirmish, mass combat system, RPG and space combat. I *think* he said he wants to try and make it work so that the the stats work in multiple systems, but that the systems themselves will be different to cope with the different power levels

I think this has the potential to be mind-bendingly awesome. But - I feel that Mr Priestly et al have set themselves a lot of busy evenings over the next ten years if this is to achieve its potential.

Three more goals have been announced. These are the start of the high end offers...





The Feeder box mentioned in each of these is :

Hardback Rulebook
Digital rulebook (DRM free)
Hansa - Exclusive Kickstarter Figure
40 x WarDrones
500 Credit Custom Army (see Feeder Reward Tier for details)
Dice!
Game Markers
This box will increase in size as we hit various stretch Goals, with extra stuff (technical term) 'feeding' into this box like the vehicles, new models, scenery etc

The Alpha and Beta things mentioned are days out to the GoA offices in Nottingham to play through a series of games using either the Alpha or Beta rule sets with the developers and other backers at that level, plus food and drink

This afternoon Rick has confirmed that there are some commissioned greens that will be shown through the course of the Kickstarter campaign. they are just holding those back until it actually gets going. I would assume the first of these would be the Wardrones, given that they are included in every box set

 endtransmission wrote:
This afternoon Rick has confirmed that there are some commissioned greens that will be shown through the course of the Kickstarter campaign. they are just holding those back until it actually gets going. I would assume the first of these would be the Wardrones, given that they are included in every box set

Looking forward to seeing them, it's also nice that the shipping is so low / non existent for the pledges, shipping seems to add up real fast on other Kickstarters I've looked at especially compared to the initial pledge. Just makes the £125 package seem even better value to me.

Right. A little bit more information for those of you worried about models/rules etc.

The kickstarter campaign is going to be run for 58 days, which means it ends at the end of February. They plan on having daily updates (we'll see how well that pans out) that include peeks into the rules as they currently stand, bits of expanded background, concept art, model previews and videos.

So far, the forum is very friendly with loads of ideas and open conversations happening between potential backers and the developers. If the campaign is run as openly, it should be a pleasure to see this grow. To get the project off the ground, however, they are looking for an initial goal of £300,000; which is a fair old chunk of change.

 Pacific wrote:


If you ever are ever to have faith (to use Melcavuk's term) on someone making something good, in the same way that you trust Ridley Scott or James Cameron not to make a stinker, then this is it!

trust Ridley Scott... not to make a stinker

trust Ridley Scott

Have you seen any of his movies recently? You are defeating your own point.

Honestly, I find the whole idea of supporting someone who is already a superstar in the field just because of his fame to be a bit silly. Most creative artists blow their creative energy on the projects that make them known and then tend to coast if no one has the guts to hold their feet to the fire. Look at George Lucas, Ridley Scott (Prometheus), Peter Jackson (King Kong), Stephen King (Dreamcatcher, Dark Tower 6 and 7, and everything after that), Laurell K. Hamilton, David Weber, Dan Abnett (last 5 GG novels...or more), whoever is designing things at GW now, etc.

Now, if this project had some decent information available, something concrete to get excited about, then I would be a lot more excited. As it is, I have to wonder if the creative team got together and said, "Our next project should be Kickstarter. But what do we want to put up?"

At the moment, the best thing this Kickstarter has going for it is an army of combat robots with the custom choices used to add human NCOs. Anything else has to wait until they've got more than one plastic kit.

Rules teasers and discussions have started to appear on the GoA development forums. So far we've got why they have chosen to use D10 instead of D6 and unit status and activations.

Just wanted to let people know that the kickstarter is now live with some concept art included, great first few minutes with pledges funding in but momentum needs to keep up to hit that goal!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2037958218/beyond-the-gates-of-antares

Only 50 early feeder levels...
Those will be gone quick

Also, when (staying positive here ) we get past the 300K GBP the first two stretch goals simply add credits to the GBP65 and GBP125 boxes - so you get to pick which extra models you want. Good thing - less useless crap you get stuck with.
also there's a GBP24 "20 extra wardrones" add-on so basically, at ~GBP150 you're going to get a complete game with two large armies, if their target of max ~40models/side is going to be about right (feeder and 20 extra drones would give you ~80 models depending on credits picks before stretches).

In at the £25 level for now for the exclusive fig. If it passes the 350k mark I'll probably up to at least the starter level. Kind of excited to see how this develops.

Jumped on an early feeder. 300k is going to be a tough bridge to cross without stretch goals to keep momentum building.

In for 190!

Great stuff, and very glad to see they have taken the 60 day route! Hopefully this should build and build, and I'm hoping they will have made at least enough starter material (in the form of concept designs, maybe even a few basic sculpts) to help whet the appetite of potential backers.

And I'm so excited about this player-input and developing universe idea. Arguably Ex-Illis went too far, and history might judge it as a game ahead of its time, but perhaps this game will strike the right balance between a standard and fun wargaming experience, but also make use of new technologies that enhance the experience. IMO, and I hope I don't sound a bit OTT to say this, some of the concepts being talked about for Gates of Antares are what this hobby needs if it is going to continue to compete for the money of youngsters, and therefore going to continue to thrive as an industry. So on that basis it's something I am going to support wholeheartedly, and of course the chance to have a chat with one of the 'gaming greats' on their forums is pretty cool too