Can exposure to chaos corrupt the new more emotional necrons in the new fluff?

Sure they are machines but look at the dark mechanicum.

Hell, even a completely inanimate object like a bolt gun can be chaosified or possessed by a daemon.

Take an extreme example: Say a slumbering Necron ship or tomb world is sucked into the warp or completely engulfed in heavy warp storms for a long period of time. Any anti chaos technology sabotaged by a rival Lord.

Or perhaps an obliterator scrap code scenario. In the novel storm of iron even a tyranid ship was able to be corrupted when cut off from the hive mind.

Thoughts?

Short answer = Nope.

Some of the Black Crusade, Death Watch and other FFG games's fluff effective says that the Necrons give Chaos Taint the finger and Chaos hates them for it.

I dont think the Necrons have a warp prescence, like the Tau.

^Yup none at all.

Why not the Dark Mechanicus use nano tech to wage a war in the microscopic scale on the slumbering tomb of a Necron world. The Necrons have been sleeping for 60 million years and the Chaos gods have had tens of thousands of years to work out a plan. This would not rely on any kind of warp presence.

Over thousands or years the nano tech could slowly subvert the tomb defenses then the simple minds of the tomb keepers, finally corrupting and accessing the minds of the overlords as they sleep.
Maybe the Chaos gods saw the tomb world was about to enter a thousand year seismic period. They wait patiently biding their time waiting until the immense mass of the very planet cracked the tomb world open. This distracted the tomb guardians giving the Dark Mechanicus time to maneuver.

There are so many ways for the chaos gods to indirectly manipulate the material universe over the immense time periods of 40K.


I say go for it. You would have a very unique army.
Hope this helps, Vim

Because Necron technology is millions of years ahead of even the Eldar. A completely psychic race that at the height of its power commanded all the powers of the Warp at will. If the Necrons could fight such a race (and even wipe out an even more powerful race like the Old Ones), Chaos is practically nothing.

Yeah that was when they were all awake and undamaged from 60 million years or their local star systems and the galactic game of ‘Let’s blow stuff up’. They have been sleeping for 60 million years with auto defenses and Barely sentient guardians protecting the tombs. In all this time I am sure there has been more than enough opportunity for a very careful, unimaginably discrete game of subversion. The kind of games a god might play.

60 million years!

 HerbaciousT wrote:
I dont think the Necrons have a warp prescence, like the Tau.

Necrons have no presence, like a psychic blank. Tau have such an insignificant presence the gods don't even notice them.

As such, Necrons cannot be mentally corrupt. But, I believe they may be physically corrupt, though the necrodermis would just repair whatever anomaly befalls them.

IMO

You don't need a warp presence to be corrupted - I don't think rock has a warp presence (?) but it can be turned into a screaming living entity dripping corruption.

Necrons are material and so can potentially be corrupted - its not easy but no reason to say they can't given the right circumstances.

People say the same about Tau being incoruptable and thats even more wrong

Rocks don't have a presence, though they don't actively repel the warp like Necrons do.

p17 of the currrent Necon Codex confirms that the Necrons are not immune to the powers of the Warp and must in fact use Null Fields to protect them and their Tomb Worlds.

Newcrons are emotional, feeling creatures but still have no warp signature to be corrupted. Though granted in an effort to greatly simplify their lore (which was Wards goal), their lack of warp presence isn't touched upon much.

You do not need a warp signature to be corrupted physically.........

Necrons are immune to warp corruption, they employ Null Field Matrices to cut a psyker's connection to the warp because they're not immune to the aforementioned pskyer's lightning frying their circuits.
Or just simply: Chaos Necron = Chaos Grey Knight = Female Space Marine

Please state the reference for Necrons immunity to any and all forms of Corruption?

No.

Tzeentch explicitly despises them above all other races for this, among other reasons.

Tome of Fate answers the question rather well.

"They have no souls to corrupt, their every action is ordered and logical to the point of impossibility, and their living metal bodies are entirely immune to the mutating effects of the Warp."
- Tome of Fate, page 107

Necron codex pg. 17 Null Field Matrices first paragraph.

 Cyrax wrote:
Necrons are immune to warp corruption, they employ Null Field Matrices to cut a psyker's connection to the warp because they're not immune to the aforementioned pskyer's lightning frying their circuits.
Or just simply: Chaos Necron = Chaos Grey Knight = Female Space Marine

Chaos Grey Knight is possible. I converted one. Anything is possible.

Anything is not possible, you read too much new age mumbo jumbo.

 Cyrax wrote:
Necron codex pg. 17 Null Field Matrices first paragraph.

Nope that says they can't USE the warp -"to any great degree" and states they can't be corrupted by attempting to use its power as they don't have psykers - says nothing about physcial corruption - like for instance the Bloodtide that apparently was a threat to Grey Knights in exactly the same way?

What is Tomb of Fate - Google is not helping ?

another snippet from the Necron Codex:

p85 refering to the Necron use of pocket dimensions etc - "To the Demons of the Warp, such technological conjurings are merely another flavour of existance to be corrupted and devoured."

Hmm, I remember living metal having something against physical corruption but I'm not sure.

now its just Semi-sentient and capable of incredable feats of self repair.

The Old Necrons were I agree far less vulnerable having no desires or emotions but now they are just the WFB Undead - diffcult for Chaos to corrupt but possible

Tome of Fate is a supplement for the Black Crusade game line that came out last year.

It dictates that Necrons are entirely immune to mental or physical corruption.

1. I get the feeling that Necrons would be immune to indirect corruption. Necrons would never "fall to Chaos" the way humans would.

2. They are highly resistant but, as the Codex said, vulnerable to direct mutation assaults.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
No.

Tzeentch explicitly despises them above all other races for this, among other reasons.

Tome of Fate answers the question rather well.

"They have no souls to corrupt, their every action is ordered and logical to the point of impossibility, and their living metal bodies are entirely immune to the mutating effects of the Warp."
- Tome of Fate, page 107

Just to piggy back this. Tome of Fate also has an uncorrupted Tomb World in the Screaming Vortex. Known as The Pillars of Eternity.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
No.

Tzeentch explicitly despises them above all other races for this, among other reasons.

Tome of Fate answers the question rather well.

"They have no souls to corrupt, their every action is ordered and logical to the point of impossibility, and their living metal bodies are entirely immune to the mutating effects of the Warp."
- Tome of Fate, page 107

This is the answer to the thread. Anything contrary is wrong.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Tome of Fate is a supplement for the Black Crusade game line that came out last year.

It dictates that Necrons are entirely immune to mental or physical corruption.

It's also material from a non-GW source for a game that is not published by GW, that has been shown to have glaring inconsistencies with GW-published material in other areas. It has about as much relevance as a Black Library novel does for the table-top wargame.

 Psienesis wrote:
It's also material from a non-GW source for a game that is not published by GW, that has been shown to have glaring inconsistencies with GW-published material in other areas. It has about as much relevance as a Black Library novel does for the table-top wargame.

You seem a bit confused.

I think what you meant was:

"It is also material from a non-GW source and, like most non-GW sources, makes the fluff in the codices seem even more pathetic and terrible than it already is, and being fully licensed by GW, according to every statement on canonicity, it is just as valid as the codices, and due to the vastly superior quality contained with in, it is arguably even more valid."

But humor me: What are these glaring inconsistencies?

 Psienesis wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Tome of Fate is a supplement for the Black Crusade game line that came out last year.

It dictates that Necrons are entirely immune to mental or physical corruption.

It's also material from a non-GW source for a game that is not published by GW, that has been shown to have glaring inconsistencies with GW-published material in other areas. It has about as much relevance as a Black Library novel does for the table-top wargame.

...What?

Necrons are immune to the Warp.
The Necrontyr were uplifted by the C'Tan to combat the Old Ones, who were a thoroughly psyker based society. The Necrons and the C'Tan are responsible for the Pariah gene and its spread throughout humanity. The Necrons are also responsible for the Cadian Gate, an area where the Warp is not just stable but mingles harmlessly with real space.

This is not new material.
Necrons cannot be corrupted, physically or mentally. Anyone telling you otherwise is running a fanfic.

The Necron's are an unchanging tide of metal. They have no souls, and most of their personality is reserved to the upper regions of their hierarchy. They can rust, rot and kill, but they can't feel true pleasure and change. They are an ordered race, which shuns chaos and anarchy. They are the anti-Chaos of the universe, they couldn't serve Chaos. It's not physically possible for them to do so.

No souls, no chaos, I always wondered if the tau were necron creations due to their mutual lack of souls

Dark Mechanicus nano tech. Who needs to corrupt a soul?

 vim_the_good wrote:
Dark Mechanicus nano tech. Who needs to corrupt a soul?

Which runs on the warp, something Necrons would negate, being blanks.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Tome of Fate is a supplement for the Black Crusade game line that came out last year.

It dictates that Necrons are entirely immune to mental or physical corruption.

It's also material from a non-GW source for a game that is not published by GW, that has been shown to have glaring inconsistencies with GW-published material in other areas. It has about as much relevance as a Black Library novel does for the table-top wargame.

...What?

Necrons are immune to the Warp.
The Necrontyr were uplifted by the C'Tan to combat the Old Ones, who were a thoroughly psyker based society. The Necrons and the C'Tan are responsible for the Pariah gene and its spread throughout humanity. The Necrons are also responsible for the Cadian Gate, an area where the Warp is not just stable but mingles harmlessly with real space.

This is not new material.
Necrons cannot be corrupted, physically or mentally. Anyone telling you otherwise is running a fanfic.

or reading the actual codex.

another quote to back it up:

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

So its obvious that Necrons - or at least the rank and file are subject to the ravages or age and are in all repects physcial - consequenlty it stands to reasn that this form can be physically corrupted.

Again people are mixing up things - physicall corruption does not mean Chaos worshipping - it means that the physical form can suffer the effects of warp taint - if the Necrons can be affected by phsyical means they can suffer physical corruption - same as Grey Knights - as shown in the Blood Tide story (much asI dislike it).

Thanks for the source on Tome of Fate - it does seem to contradict some of the information in the Codex so its a chocie as to which GW source you use.........

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:
No souls, no chaos, I always wondered if the tau were necron creations due to their mutual lack of souls

Tau are Blunt NOT blanks - they have a slight but not non existant presence in the warp - they are not at all immune - just likely to be overlooked and hard to corrupt.

The Necrons, being basically mindless (like the Tyranids) would be subject to the lure of Chaos... meaning that they could never "fall".

However, the Warp is more than just the home of four really pissed of daemons who are all butt-hurt about the Emprah being ... well just plain more of a badass than them,

It's also a sort of reality in itself. Just like Gravity, Time, and certain other constants exist in the real world, certain other constants exist in the warp. It affects anything and everything that it comes in contact with. I person does not have to "fall" to chaos to be afflicted by one of Nurlge's plagues, or to feel the bite of a Chainaxe from Khorne...

Necrons, just like any other physical entity, could, and would be "corrupted" by exposure to the warp. What type of corruption is unknown. Just like a good portion of the Soul Drinkers were afflicted, they remain (questionably) loyal to the human cause. And like them, Necrons who are affected would most like suffer similar mutations... their "living metal" may mutate or assume unusual shapes, grow the proverbial tentacle, or even gain some other atypical power.

It may also be that the exposure to the warp may weaken them... it could adversely affect the bio-oils that sustain the living metal, or cause it to mutate... who knows.

They can't be mentally corrupted, nor physically, as the Necrodermis would just repair any mutations that occur.

Again read the actual codex they suffer damage and corrosion - mutation and corruption would work in the same way - in fact it is the same thing if its Nurgle.

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

Oldcrons = No. They are static machines with the faint imprint of of the Necrontyr. Anathema to the Warp and bound to the will of the C'Tan.

Newcrons = Due to the poor quality of the fluff its anyone's guess.

Overall the Necrons have no soul to corrupt, they offer nothing to the Chaos Gods and can't be tempted into service. While the Lord's can think and feel, in truth that is only the echos of their past experiences.

Alright, how about this.

You know why Orkz aren't really susceptible to chaos? Because other boyz just smack 'em back into shape fer bein' un orky. If a Necron started to get warped by chaos, Canoptek Scarabs would scurry over and reshape the warrior to purge the corruption. Right?

Two different topics which are being mixed up

Can they physcially corrupted - obviously yes given the entry from the codex above - their (or at least the warriors) bodies are subject to the normal ravages or age and corrosion.

Can they be tempted in worshiping Chaos - less clear and only potentially possible I feel with the sentient rulers - and then highly unlikely, Chaos can offer them things - Some Necrons want a biological form again - p17 Blood Vats of Zantragora

Totally different things.

Also even the Silent K|ing thinks that the fate of his race is madness... (p37)

 xSPYXEx wrote:
Alright, how about this.

You know why Orkz aren't really susceptible to chaos? Because other boyz just smack 'em back into shape fer bein' un orky. If a Necron started to get warped by chaos, Canoptek Scarabs would scurry over and reshape the warrior to purge the corruption. Right?

Yes thats highly likely - unless they have also succumbed to the same thing - like the Flayer virus which worries even the most powerful of Necron Lords - Necrons are not invulnerable.

 blood reaper wrote:

 vim_the_good wrote:
Dark Mechanicus nano tech. Who needs to corrupt a soul?

Which runs on the warp, something Necrons would negate, being blanks.

What runs on the warp?

Maybe the Necrons none existent (suppressed) soul is of no interest to the Chaos gods but their advanced tech and surely is. In the eyes or eye of any self respecting Chaos god the Necrons are a weapon to be wielded to further their goals.

Set aside for a moment any idea of the Necrons being a source of soul food for the Chaos gods and look at them more as a means to an end, a tool if you like. Then they become interesting to the Chaos gods. This is not beyond the arrogance or tactical thinking of the Chaos gods.

Then

Consider through the eyes or eye of the Chaos god. You can not snare them like you would the soul of a weak human. Instead you have to attack on a tangent. Attack to control their physical form. Use a third party. Now add in to this. 60 million years of Necron stasis!... 60 million years in a galactic empire. Wait there did I say galactic... That's big by the way.
The opportunities for a specific tomb world to become trapped, corrupted, enslaved, open.

There is plenty of room in the fluff for this.

Cheers Vim

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It's also material from a non-GW source for a game that is not published by GW, that has been shown to have glaring inconsistencies with GW-published material in other areas. It has about as much relevance as a Black Library novel does for the table-top wargame.

You seem a bit confused.

I think what you meant was:

"It is also material from a non-GW source and, like most non-GW sources, makes the fluff in the codices seem even more pathetic and terrible than it already is, and being fully licensed by GW, according to every statement on canonicity, it is just as valid as the codices, and due to the vastly superior quality contained with in, it is arguably even more valid."

But humor me: What are these glaring inconsistencies?

Not what I meant at all. If you want FFG's RPG to be *your* canon, knock yourself out, but don't pretend that it is, in anyway, more valid than any other external source as 40K "canon". It's not licensed by GW any more than the Space Marine movie was, or the Dawn of War video game series. All the license does is permit a company to produce a product in the 40K setting, using the various 40K concepts and trademarks.

In DH vs DW, Astartes Power Armor, as well as their bolt-guns, is superior in every way to that carried by the Adeptus Sororitas, despite the various Codices related to the Sororitas stating that their equipment is equivalent to that of the Astartes.

The "civilian model" of bolt-weapons present throughout Dark Heresy. There is no such thing according to every other source. A Heavy Bolter is a Heavy Bolter, whether carried by a Space Marine, mounted on a tank, or lugged about by a team of Guardsmen. Same with the bolt-gun and bolt-pistol.

The abysmally poor combat statistics of daemons, especially the Khornate daemons. A moderately athletic teenager in Dark Heresy could kick a Bloodletter's ass.

The rather considerable range of melta weapons. While I'm not expecting exact comparison to the table-top rules, meltas are, in every source, described as "short range" weapons of impressive destructive potential. The meltas in all of the FFG books are... not that.

Storm Troopers being a class, available to characters during the path of Ascension, despite normally being recruited from the Schola Progenium, where the PCs have *not* been spending the last 16-20 years of their lives.

Joining one of a pair of Ordo Assassinorum Temples because you, or your Inquisitor, asked nicely.

... and that's just a few off the top of my head.

Necrons are immune to the Warp.
The Necrontyr were uplifted by the C'Tan to combat the Old Ones, who were a thoroughly psyker based society. The Necrons and the C'Tan are responsible for the Pariah gene and its spread throughout humanity. The Necrons are also responsible for the Cadian Gate, an area where the Warp is not just stable but mingles harmlessly with real space.

Because of their pylons and other tickey-tock gubbinz, not some inherent trait of their species. Their Tomb Worlds are likewise shielded with such technologies because, otherwise, Daemons tear open their Dolmen Gates and other hyper-phasic, dimension-hopping widgets and decide to get a little iron in their diets... or maybe just roll up and start snacking on sleeping Crons like they were mother-fething bon bons. Yes, the C'Tan raised up the Necrontyr to fight the Old Ones. Guess what? The Necrons died by the billions. This is what lead to Bio-Transference, the need to continue the war.

Cadia was also recently wrecked. Adeptus Mechanicus experts believe that this was caused by a cascade failure in the ancient systems responsible for the planet checking itself. The gibbering hordes of Chaos on the surface of Cadia sure don't seem to give a single feth about the pylons now.

Last but not least, as has been mentioned a few times in this thread now, the Necrons are subject to wear and tear of time. The Warriors, especially, as the lowest-rung of Necron society (such as it is) are practically falling apart. This is entropy at its most basic form, the failure of material in the face of time. Where there is entropy, there is change. Where there is change, there is Chaos.

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:
No souls, no chaos, I always wondered if the tau were necron creations due to their mutual lack of souls

Tau have souls, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

or reading the actual codex.

another quote to back it up:

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

So its obvious that Necrons - or at least the rank and file are subject to the ravages or age and are in all repects physcial - consequenlty it stands to reasn that this form can be physically corrupted.

Again people are mixing up things - physicall corruption does not mean Chaos worshipping - it means that the physical form can suffer the effects of warp taint - if the Necrons can be affected by phsyical means they can suffer physical corruption - same as Grey Knights - as shown in the Blood Tide story (much asI dislike it).

Thanks for the source on Tome of Fate - it does seem to contradict some of the information in the Codex so its a chocie as to which GW source you use.........

Blanks can age and die. They are also immune to the corruption of Chaos.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:
No souls, no chaos, I always wondered if the tau were necron creations due to their mutual lack of souls

Tau have souls, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

or reading the actual codex.

another quote to back it up:

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

So its obvious that Necrons - or at least the rank and file are subject to the ravages or age and are in all repects physcial - consequenlty it stands to reasn that this form can be physically corrupted.

Again people are mixing up things - physicall corruption does not mean Chaos worshipping - it means that the physical form can suffer the effects of warp taint - if the Necrons can be affected by phsyical means they can suffer physical corruption - same as Grey Knights - as shown in the Blood Tide story (much asI dislike it).

Thanks for the source on Tome of Fate - it does seem to contradict some of the information in the Codex so its a chocie as to which GW source you use.........

Blanks can age and die. They are also immune to the corruption of Chaos.

Necrons are not blanks! There has never been stated to be any such connection. Infact even in the old codex it was required for the "Pariahs" to be the most warp immune. Which required actual blanks to do so.

Necrons are not immune to "Physical Corruption" They can and will be mutated, corrupted, rusted by nurgles rot, but at the same time it will count them as destroyed, where they will be returned to the tomb, which with its null fields will cancel out the mutations, allowing for proper self-repair.

It's the same principle on why warp magic will rip and tear them apart, aside from their technology they are not "Immune"

It is so cute to see people argue from ignorance after I cited a source outright stating they are immune to physical corruption.

The Warp can destroy or incapacitate them. It can't make them grow an arm from their crotch.

Oh, and I wasn't saying they were Blanks, I was highlighting how abominably bad the logic behind bringing up how they happen to be capable of rusting means that the Warp can corrupt their bodies.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
It is so cute to see people argue from ignorance after I cited a source outright stating they are immune to physical corruption.

The Warp can destroy or incapacitate them. It can't make them grow an arm from their crotch.

Oh, and I wasn't saying they were Blanks, I was highlighting how abominably bad the logic behind bringing up how they happen to be capable of rusting means that the Warp can corrupt their bodies.

The thing is, as much as I love the Black Crusade series (I do, I have tome of blood and I wish they'd release the slaanesh and nurgle one's already)

The funny thing is, despite saying they are physically immune to corruption..They can be corrupted by the rules! They have no stats or traits that physically prevent warp corruption.

With the From Beyond, they cannot be affected by Mental psyker attacks, with Undying, it cannot be affected by poisons/toxins/diseases, but nothing prevents something like the Psyker Power Storm of Change from actually granting it a "A random gift of the gods." They would need to be near a Spyder and its gloom ability to be protected, or wielding a "Shadow Ankh". Which is technology that prevents powers from the warp from harming them.

Unless I'm reading something off, I'm basing it off the "Necron Lords" stats. Page 114.

 Psienesis wrote:
Not what I meant at all. If you want FFG's RPG to be *your* canon, knock yourself out, but don't pretend that it is, in anyway, more valid than any other external source as 40K "canon". It's not licensed by GW any more than the Space Marine movie was, or the Dawn of War video game series. All the license does is permit a company to produce a product in the 40K setting, using the various 40K concepts and trademarks.

Which according to GW is just as valid as any of the codices. Glad you agree.

In DH vs DW, Astartes Power Armor, as well as their bolt-guns, is superior in every way to that carried by the Adeptus Sororitas, despite the various Codices related to the Sororitas stating that their equipment is equivalent to that of the Astartes.

I'll give you this one, Sororitas Power Armour should be AP 8.

The "civilian model" of bolt-weapons present throughout Dark Heresy. There is no such thing according to every other source. A Heavy Bolter is a Heavy Bolter, whether carried by a Space Marine, mounted on a tank, or lugged about by a team of Guardsmen. Same with the bolt-gun and bolt-pistol.

The absence of evidence is not, in fact, evidence of absence.

There are, in fact, varying forms of bolters in the fluff, the Sisters of Battle happening to use the Godwyn-De'az.

The abysmally poor combat statistics of daemons, especially the Khornate daemons. A moderately athletic teenager in Dark Heresy could kick a Bloodletter's ass.

A. No they couldn't, certainly not most of the time.

B. Rectified by future gamelines.

The rather considerable range of melta weapons. While I'm not expecting exact comparison to the table-top rules, meltas are, in every source, described as "short range" weapons of impressive destructive potential. The meltas in all of the FFG books are... not that.

They uh, they have an effective range of like twenty meters. Does this sound impressive to you, lol?

An AK-47 has an effective range of about 550 meters. By all rights, most or all firearms in the games should have far more range than listed.

Twenty meters is a very short ranged firearm

Storm Troopers being a class, available to characters during the path of Ascension, despite normally being recruited from the Schola Progenium, where the PCs have *not* been spending the last 16-20 years of their lives.

The existence of Kasrkin and Grenadiers dictate that despite "normally" being recruited from the Schola Progenium, to achieve soldiers of this ability and prowess it is not mandatory.

Joining one of a pair of Ordo Assassinorum Temples because you, or your Inquisitor, asked nicely.

I'll go ahead and not argue this because I know little of the Officio Assassinorum.

Didn't the Inquisitor Rulebook dictate that they work closely with the Inquisition though?

"They have no souls to corrupt, their every action is ordered and logical to the point of impossibility, and their living metal bodies are entirely immune to the mutating effects of the Warp."
- Tome of Fate, page 107

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/04 18:10:54

Actually, my tome says "Entirely Resistant" to the mutating effects, not immune.

I didn't copy and paste, I typed it. No one is perfect.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
I didn't copy and paste, I typed it. No one is perfect.

True enough I suppose, however I am still looking for an answer to my "Non-resistant to warp mutation Necron lord" In case that one pops up during gameplay.

Mainly because I feel something is off If I can mutate necrons despite the fluff saying against it, usually FFG is more on the ball about that.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Again read the actual codex they suffer damage and corrosion - mutation and corruption would work in the same way - in fact it is the same thing if its Nurgle.

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

Then you damage that warrior and where it is repaired it is shiney and new. Reference Hellforged.

So say you try rotting it with Nurgle. The Warrior degrades untill it reaches the point where its repair protocals kicks in and its new again. You turn that warrior into a spawn and it starts repairing itself untill it is no longer a spawn.

Since when has a Necron been immune to physical corruption??
If you shoot it with a laser it blows up. Sure it’s parts then return to the tomb but still. To say the Necrons are immune to corruption or to put it another way. Physical change, is wrong.

It’s 40K. Do what you want

Here I even attached a picture of a Necron corrupted by Chaos

 Stonerhino wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Again read the actual codex they suffer damage and corrosion - mutation and corruption would work in the same way - in fact it is the same thing if its Nurgle.

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

Then you damage that warrior and where it is repaired it is shiney and new. Reference Hellforged.

So say you try rotting it with Nurgle. The Warrior degrades untill it reaches the point where its repair protocals kicks in and its new again. You turn that warrior into a spawn and it starts repairing itself untill it is no longer a spawn.

Except thats obviously not what happens - the repair protocols for the rank and file are not perfect and as noted above and in other parts of the Codex can leave them at a less than optimal state - on occassions have bits missing.

If its "rotted" to the point of a spawn it should have either been teleported home before then to try and be repaired (and hopefully avoid infecting other machines) or is simply lost in the same way as a Necron warrior that is vapourised is gone.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
It is so cute to see people argue from ignorance after I cited a source outright stating they are immune to physical corruption. The Warp can destroy or incapacitate them. It can't make them grow an arm from their crotch.Oh, and I wasn't saying they were Blanks, I was highlighting how abominably bad the logic behind bringing up how they happen to be capable of rusting means that the Warp can corrupt their bodies.

No you specifically brought up blanks and said although they age they are immune to physical corruption by the warp and then made this line of discussion irrelvant be confirming that necrons are not in fact blanks.

Why can the Warp not make them grow an arm - As we now know from your misquote earlier, the Necron material is resistant but not immune to damage/change.

Another important question was Tome of Fate written before or after the new Necron Codex? Some of the FFG material on Dark Eldar for instance is out of date in adventures published before the new Codex.

You don't seem to know what the word "entirely" means.

When you learn the definition of "entirely", then you can rejoin this thread.

Not that this matters, since page 110 outright states they can't be corrupted or mutated.

It came out after the Necron codex, and prior sourcebooks, like Hand of Corruption, incorporate information like C'tan Shards (You can fight one) into the fluff.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Again read the actual codex they suffer damage and corrosion - mutation and corruption would work in the same way - in fact it is the same thing if its Nurgle.

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

Then you damage that warrior and where it is repaired it is shiney and new. Reference Hellforged.

So say you try rotting it with Nurgle. The Warrior degrades untill it reaches the point where its repair protocals kicks in and its new again. You turn that warrior into a spawn and it starts repairing itself untill it is no longer a spawn.

Except thats obviously not what happens - the repair protocols for the rank and file are not perfect and as noted above and in other parts of the Codex can leave them at a less than optimal state - on occassions have bits missing.

If its "rotted" to the point of a spawn it should have either been teleported home before then to try and be repaired (and hopefully avoid infecting other machines) or is simply lost in the same way as a Necron warrior that is vapourised is gone.

I will forgive you because it doesn't sound like you have read Hellforged as I referenced. There is a scene where there are "Aged" Necron Warriors advancing towards the Soul Drinkers. The Soul Drinkers open up and the Warriors start dropping. Then to everyone's horror the Warriors start standing back up. They are still "Aged" except were they took damage. The repaired areas are chrome.

The repair protocals of the Necrons, even warriors is insane. To the point that it will even repair Chaos mutations. Simple decay does not matter untill it reaches the point that the repair protocals become active.

That said an inactive Necron is basically a hunk of metal and can degrade to dust. But if at any point it becomes active. It will begin repairing itself. So you launch a bunch of Dark Mech nanobots into an inactive tomb and they go to work. Everything they do will be undone if the tomb becomes active. Using "Scrapcode" would be like trying to take on modern super computers with a virus designed for a commodore 64.

... unless the scrap-code rewrites the hexadecimal encoding of the Resurrection Protocols.

Chaos, and its effects, are not bound by laws of physical restraint, because it's magic, plain and simple.

Are Necrons immune to having their Corrupted, shiny, metal arses grow hooves, horns and tentacles? No. Why? Because magic. How did it happen? A wizard did it.

 Psienesis wrote:
... unless the scrap-code rewrites the hexadecimal encoding of the Resurrection Protocols.

Chaos, and its effects, are not bound by laws of physical restraint, because it's magic, plain and simple.

Are Necrons immune to having their Corrupted, shiny, metal arses grow hooves, horns and tentacles? No. Why? Because magic. How did it happen? A wizard did it.

Necrons are immune to it though, because they cause it to wither and die. Such mutations require a soul, Necron's lack said soul meaning that the mutation would not occur.

All you need to do now is provide an example of a Necron being mutated.

Necrons are the most notable race in terms of telling silly Warp magic to sit the feth down and have a time out, their "hexadecimal encoding" could very well be Warp-proof.

Pretty much as others have said, they have no souls, even the personality higher ranked Necrons have are part of their programming, their neural patterns installed in a metal shell. As for their physical forms, the metals and and alloys are specifically designed to be warp resistant. The only reason they employ Null Fields against the warp is to protect themselves from warp storms which is more of a natural hazard than any focused attempted at corrupting them.

 Psienesis wrote:
Are Necrons immune to having their Corrupted, shiny, metal arses grow hooves, horns and tentacles?

Short answer = Yes they are. Because the fluff tells us so.

The first thing that every Cryptekh learns is how to give physics the finger. The second thing they learn is how to give magic the finger.

The Dolmen Gates are a perfect example of Necron technology overcoming "Magic". Why is it so hard to believe that they can do in other areas as well... Especially when we have fluff saying that is exactly what they do.

Because people get upset when Necrons give Chaos the finger. It has always been that way.

And technology can't be corrupted, ever? We know that to be patently false.

If the Necron entity itself, the Warrior, the Scarab, the Cryptek, the Destroyer, the Necron Lord, the Monolith, were immune to Chaos, they wouldn't need to build Null Field Generators around their Tombs, or equip them on certain other devices. However, because this is what the Necrons do, we must assume that they find the effects of the Warp to be a threat, otherwise why would they bother?

There is even a specific Chaos Power (not of the Great Four) that has such things as part of its portfolio. Yuvassin, the Undoer, is the Chaos God of Murphy's Law, basically. What Tzeentch plans, Yuvassin throws into disarray. Into what mortals design and build, Yuvassin puts flaws and weaknesses. Yuvassin is the bug in the code that leaves it ripe for exploitation, the overlooked flaw that brings a castle crashing down, the unforeseen complication that destroys the most carefully-laid plans.

As the Necrons were mortal (and, technically, may still be mortal, for all of their body-swapping and mind-transferring shenanigans), they are no more immune to the predations of the Warp than any other. While a Blank may be immune to direct Warp attacks, nothing stops a telekine from dropping a piano on his head.

 Psienesis wrote:
And technology can't be corrupted, ever? We know that to be patently false.

Except that fluff tells us the Necron Tech can't. The are multiple examples of Necron Tech flat out overcoming warp tech. Do you think this is by accident??? Maybe it has something to do with fighting a war that some sources say lasted millions of years against a race that was the primier warp using race (Old Ones). At a time when the warp was safe.

As it is Chaos and the those who use it are more limited then the psykers during the War in Heaven. An example of this is when the Voidbringer fights Varro Tigurius in Fall of Damnos. Tigurius starts doing his psychic stuff, the Voidbringer beats him down calling him a crap. For the Voidbringer to view Tigurius' abilites so bad means that he has had to have faced psykers much stronger. Stronger then one of the most powerfull Librarians, likely in orders of magnitude stronger.

Imagine fighting an army of Ahrimans who have the ability to tap into the warp without fear of anything bad happening. Then compare that to 40k where you might have a lone psyker or two trying to corrupt you. When you have technology designed to defend against the former, it makes the latter a bug on the windshield.

It is the same as saying "My rifle can shoot through a modern main battle tank because it can shoot through the metal of a car door".

Another thing to consider is that the Dark Mech could not even corrupt the Blackstone Fortresses and Abbadon needed an ancient artifact called the "Heart of Darkness" to gain control of them. Chaos + Chaos Tech can do a lot. But when faced with tech and warp tech that is created by others that understand the warp better then those trying to corrupt it. Those trying to corrupt that tech don't really stand a chance.

Ok we know that necrons are 100% not immune to the effects of the warp, this is proven by the fact that psy powers work on them.

Are they immune to damages suffered by the taint of the warp? Again no, they more than likely have a greater resistance to it, but eventually they will start to show symptoms of the exposure, drop a necron in the warp and see what happens.

Are they immune to corruption from warp entities? Again no, they have greater resistance to them, I'm talking physical not spiritual, as the big 4 have nothing to offer the run of the mill necrons, if they were immune totally, then there would be no need to go through the trouble of building tech to protect them from it. And of course on the tt they would be immune to all chaos powers. We also have a necron head.on a pole, so I assume the warp must in some way disrupt the.phase out of the necrons or prolonged exposure stops the body from regenerating.

Imagine fighting an army of Ahrimans who have the ability to tap into the warp without fear of anything bad happening. Then compare that to 40k where you might have a lone psyker or two trying to corrupt you. When you have technology designed to defend against the former, it makes the latter a bug on the windshield.

That's what I'm getting at. The Necrons may have the technology to shield themselves against Chaos, and that's fine, but they are not, themselves, without their Null Fields and such, immune to Chaos.

 Psienesis wrote:

Imagine fighting an army of Ahrimans who have the ability to tap into the warp without fear of anything bad happening. Then compare that to 40k where you might have a lone psyker or two trying to corrupt you. When you have technology designed to defend against the former, it makes the latter a bug on the windshield.

That's what I'm getting at. The Necrons may have the technology to shield themselves against Chaos, and that's fine, but they are not, themselves, without their Null Fields and such, immune to Chaos.

Do you have any examples of Necrons being mutated by chaos?

there is a reason that the necrons physically cannot travel through the webway which is why they cant be even affected by chaos and as a matter of fact once the emprah dies and chaos goes shooting out of everywhere like a baby boom on steroids times Matt Ward the necrons are gonna just roll over and say "oh boy time to kill some gods again" (starts to reassemble C'tan shards) remember that they literally killed the creators of everything its like the whole apprentice becoming the master thing but toss in a bit of we conquer the universe and create science that is equal to or better then and more reliable then magic then go to sleep because were bored and not stupid like the eldar and dont want to rip a giant butt crack in the universe

Do you have any examples of Space Marines going to the bathroom? No? Well, then we must assume that Space Marines never poop, or have lost the ability in the 10,000 years since the Heresy, and the waste-recyclers in their armor are just relics from a bygone era, included because the Mechanicus considers them holy relics.

...

There is a decidedly limited amount of fluff for all of the non-Imperial factions, so expecting BL or FFG to have published a resource containing this specific situation is a pretty tall order.

Seriously, though, if the Necrons thought it prudent to build shields around their Tombs to ward away the Warp, then there must have been a purpose behind it, no? To quote Richard B. Riddick, "You don't prep your emergency ship unless there's a f***ing emergency."

ya there was a reason to build null fields ^^^^

for things like warp storms so that their planet doesnt blow up during the storm also to quote Adam Savage, "there's no such thing as overkill." and if the eldar decide to peep their heads in then a farseer cant just be all gung ho and colapse the place all stealthily

also, when they went to sleep they were preping for the worst of anything that could occur

A Warp Storm that blows up the planet is just going to leave a Null Shielded Tomb drifting about in space, letting sleeping Necrons just drift about like glitter... in space. The Null Fields around the Tombs cover just the Tomb-complex, in most cases. Other worlds, like Cadia, have more extensive networks of pylons, though this is a bit of creative ret-conning, because the Cadian Gate has been a thing in 40K far longer than the Necrons and their Pylons have been, if memory serves.

The Null Shield also is kind of obvious to a Psyker. It's like a big, blank spot where you're expecting background landmass on a radar sweep. You don't know what's there, but there's *something* there blocking your signal. Also, the Eldar of that era weren't stealthy, they didn't need to be, as there were a *lot* of Eldar in those days. If they detected a Tomb, they had plasma torpedoes that would utterly obliterate it in a couple salvos. They still have these torps, incidentally, and they are *very* nice.

Immunity to corruption doesn't protect you from having your Tomb World destroyed by a mod of Bloodletters and Bloodthirsters.

 Psienesis wrote:
Do you have any examples of Space Marines going to the bathroom? No? Well, then we must assume that Space Marines never poop, or have lost the ability in the 10,000 years since the Heresy, and the waste-recyclers in their armor are just relics from a bygone era, included because the Mechanicus considers them holy relics.

...

There is a decidedly limited amount of fluff for all of the non-Imperial factions, so expecting BL or FFG to have published a resource containing this specific situation is a pretty tall order.

Seriously, though, if the Necrons thought it prudent to build shields around their Tombs to ward away the Warp, then there must have been a purpose behind it, no? To quote Richard B. Riddick, "You don't prep your emergency ship unless there's a f***ing emergency."

So, you have nothing that says they can be mutated, and no examples of it happening. While we have a clear GW 40k licensed game supplement, that says they can't be mutated/corrupted.

I guess when you have some actual evidence to support your claims, you can come back, but at this point it's clear you have nothing to stand on.

Immunity to corruption doesn't protect you from having your Tomb World destroyed by a mod of Bloodletters and Bloodthirsters.

Exactly.

The Flayer virus mutates Necrons - although its thought this is via a C'tan "Curse" in the Codex IIRC.

I'll have a look through the various books over the weekend and see if anything specific comes up...........of course the sources could end up being contradictory

Also a number of people seem to be confusing the Necrons and the C'tan in terms of their powers and abilities and how the war against the Old Ones was won and the one against the Eldar lost..........

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Immunity to corruption doesn't protect you from having your Tomb World destroyed by a mod of Bloodletters and Bloodthirsters.

I can't imagine that being sucked into a warpstorm would be good for you either. It might not corrupt you or taint you, being a Necron, but it is raw energy after all and can still obliterate what ever crosses its path.

The Flayer virus mutates Necrons - although its thought this is via a C'tan "Curse" in the Codex IIRC.

It's not "Thought" it's outright stated to be from the destruction of the The Flayer.

Also a number of people seem to be confusing the Necrons and the C'tan in terms of their powers and abilities and how the war against the Old Ones was won and the one against the Eldar lost..........

Necrons went to war with the Old Ones, and the Eldar at the same time, During the War in Heaven. They never fought a War against just the Eldar, as they went into Hibernation shortly after destroying the C'tan and eradicating the Old Ones.

Sorry you are correct re the Flayer being the cause of the Curse, I had misremembered which bit of the Legend was thought and which bit was stated. Checked the book and you are absolutely right.

I do think its interesting that with regard to mutation and transformation the Flayer virus does the following:

"Physical changes occur shortly thereafter, wracking and twisting the afflicted Necron's form into something as warped in body as it is in protocol and function."

Its also confirmed on the very first page that the Necron self repair system can be overwhelmed, which results in retreat to Tome World for repair or self destruction. This is (to me at least) the likely result of a Necron suffering warping of its form by sorcery or Daemonic taint etc.

The Necrons become powerful servants of the C'tan to defeat of the Old Ones and only when the war is won do they backstab them with their own technologies to avoid being slain / enslaved themselves. This act shatters their own power and is its clear to the Silent King they are then no match for the Eldar - hence the retreat, hide and sleep protocol.

 Psienesis wrote:
Do you have any examples of Space Marines going to the bathroom?

Your move, show a Necron mutated by chaos.

The Necrons become powerful servants of the C'tan to defeat of the Old Ones and only when the war is won do they backstab them with their own technologies to avoid being slain / enslaved themselves. This act shatters their own power and is its clear to the Silent King they are then no match for the Eldar - hence the retreat, hide and sleep protocol.

Which is not the same as loosing a War to the Eldar.

 Sasori wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Do you have any examples of Space Marines going to the bathroom? No? Well, then we must assume that Space Marines never poop, or have lost the ability in the 10,000 years since the Heresy, and the waste-recyclers in their armor are just relics from a bygone era, included because the Mechanicus considers them holy relics.

...

There is a decidedly limited amount of fluff for all of the non-Imperial factions, so expecting BL or FFG to have published a resource containing this specific situation is a pretty tall order.

Seriously, though, if the Necrons thought it prudent to build shields around their Tombs to ward away the Warp, then there must have been a purpose behind it, no? To quote Richard B. Riddick, "You don't prep your emergency ship unless there's a f***ing emergency."

So, you have nothing that says they can be mutated, and no examples of it happening. While we have a clear GW 40k licensed game supplement, that says they can't be mutated/corrupted.

I guess when you have some actual evidence to support your claims, you can come back, but at this point it's clear you have nothing to stand on.

Immunity to corruption doesn't protect you from having your Tomb World destroyed by a mod of Bloodletters and Bloodthirsters.

Exactly.

Are Necrons, in any edition of their Codices, immune to the Chaos Psychic Powers "Gift of Chaos", "Bolt of Change", or "Tzeentch's Firestorm"? No? FFG can make their RPG work in one way, the table-top game (actually written and published by GW) works another.

Cop-out answer with gameplay mechanics ftw right?

You have no fluffy source that has an example of a Necron being corrupted by Chaos, however there is a source which explicitly states they cannot.

If you'd like I could get you a stool, because you have no legs to stand on.

 Sasori wrote:

The Necrons become powerful servants of the C'tan to defeat of the Old Ones and only when the war is won do they backstab them with their own technologies to avoid being slain / enslaved themselves. This act shatters their own power and is its clear to the Silent King they are then no match for the Eldar - hence the retreat, hide and sleep protocol.

Which is not the same as loosing a War to the Eldar.

Well I guess you could argue they lost that war by default but enough survived to wage a new one - which they seem likely to win now that the Eldar are but a shadow of their former self

I believe it is Craftworld Altaioc that is the only surviving Craftworld that really remembers their original mission, that of destroying the Necron, and has been fighting a Long War that puts the Traitor Legions to shame.

 Psienesis wrote:
Are Necrons, in any edition of their Codices, immune to the Chaos Psychic Powers "Gift of Chaos", "Bolt of Change", or "Tzeentch's Firestorm"? No? FFG can make their RPG work in one way, the table-top game (actually written and published by GW) works another.

It is for the same reason that they were not immune to the poison of a needle sniper rifle. Its just game balance. And if you didn't have a spawn model in 5th a Necron got his RPs against Gift of Chaos.

Your argument is flawed because you using a game mechanic that is not representative of the fluff but an attempt at game balance.

 Psienesis wrote:
Are Necrons, in any edition of their Codices, immune to the Chaos Psychic Powers "Gift of Chaos", "Bolt of Change", or "Tzeentch's Firestorm"? No? FFG can make their RPG work in one way, the table-top game (actually written and published by GW) works another.

Space Marines are often depicted as unkillable war machines that can raze a world with as few as a hundred men, but every game I play they get killed in one shot. What? Fluff and gameplay don't add up!? WTF!

Space Marines are often depicted as unkillable war machines that can raze a world with as few as a hundred men, but every game I play they get killed in one shot. What? Fluff and gameplay don't add up!? WTF!

And in some fluff, Space Marines are 10 feet tall. In some BL sources, including the "declared 'canonical'" (whatever that is supposed to mean) Horus Heresy novels, a Space Marine is worth only 10 Imperial Guardsmen. In yet others, they get beaten to death by unarmored cultists wielding sticks and rocks (literally).

The fluff itself is not consistent.

It is for the same reason that they were not immune to the poison of a needle sniper rifle. Its just game balance. And if you didn't have a spawn model in 5th a Necron got his RPs against Gift of Chaos.

Your argument is flawed because you using a game mechanic that is not representative of the fluff but an attempt at game balance.

Balance? This is 40K we're talking about. If "balance" were in the Top 10 things that the writers of the Codices were concerned with, we'd not have anywhere near the amount of posts regarding the Space Wolves or the Grey Knights that we do. There are also other Armies who receive immunity, specifically, from Special Rules carried by other Armies. Is that "balanced"? No, it's just an effect of the rule. Trazyn's Superior Tactics rule fails, automatically, against any Ork army. Is this grossly unbalancing in favor of the Orks? Not really, but it does set the precedent that, had it been intended, an Army can have its codex written in such a way that an immunity, resistance, or other special effect is granted against another Army's Special Rule. As the Necron Codex grants no immunity to Warp-Based attacks... I am lead to conclude that the Necron, by itself, is not immune to being Warped by Chaos. Can its RP fix those tentacles? Maybe. RP fails against purely physical damage, requiring a Scarab Tow-Truck to go drag its shiny, metal arse back to the Tomb.

IMO, Codices (written by GW, published by GW, and for the original game that all other 40K fluff descends from) trumps any BL/FFG source when it comes to statements of what is/is not "canon", insofar as this setting can be said to have a canon. If a Codex says nothing one way or another about a subject, then that's open to whatever BL or FFG or off-the-internet-fandex you want to choose, because on a subject that GW has said absolutely nothing on, any one opinion is as valid as any other. As the Codices have set the precedent that an army with an automatic immunity to some form of attack, power, special rule, whatever, will have it listed in the rules for that Army, and that neither Codex: Necron or Codex: Chaos Space Marines lists the Necrons being immune to psychic attacks, Chaos Psychic Attacks, Eldar psychic powers, Shokk Attack Gunz, JotWW, or any other psychic shooting attack you care to name, *all* of which make use of the energy of the Warp... I can only conclude that, no, Necrons are not automatically immune to the effects of the Warp.

ok yes lets make a race that is completely immune to psykers and poison and anything of the like and while were at it why not make them able to take warp field generators so that any daemon army can not DS any of their units or have them on the board in any way and anything that has anything to do with the warp is completely nullified and all gauss weapons instantly causs a wound to simulate it stripping the atoms of the target and no armour saves can be taken against it

and also why not have phase shifters have the option to instantly be invulnerable to any and all attacks of any kind and may not be targeted for a charge and may move inside of terrain if they want to until they choose to turn it off

ah and while were at it why not give the orks the good ol' animosity rule so that they can all kill each other before they even get out of a trukk

you see how balanced things would be with every piece of fluff? certain armies wouldnt be able to even fight others while certain armies would absolutely slaughter others

Psienesis, you continue to confuse actual physical mutation and corruption with gak like attacks that trap you in the Earth, or send you to the Warp, or blow you up, or whatever.

No one claimed they are immune to that.

But the only source dealing with the matter explicitly states they are entirely resistant to physical corruption.

You on the other hand, would rather use gameplay mechanics.

Fluff trumps gameplay, evidence trumps assumption.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
But the only source dealing with the matter explicitly states they are entirely resistant to physical corruption.

What about mental corruption then? That's often how Chaos starts on you, after all. Probably not much of an issue for the less intelligent Necrons that only live to serve, but could Overlords and such be corrupted through their desires?

Well they don't have souls, nor even minds in the human sense, so not really no lol.

I mean, in terms of direct mental influencing. I mean, I guess you could manipulate a Necron Overlord in the mundane fashion, sure.

I think all of the new style Necron Overlords and above have minds and often complex emotions - some of them are even somewhat insane - a fate that the Silent King believes is the eventual fate of all of his unaging bretherin.

Again its part of the whole new "Tomb Kings in space" vibe that they are mainly ancient warrior kings trapped in undying but unfeeling shells........... We know from the Codex that there are Necrons continually trying to achieve this return to flesh.

Consequently I also think the possibility is also there for Chaos (in one form or another) to try and attempt to corrupt those Necrons who seek a return to flesh - although not surprisingly the Necrons do have Trust issues after the C'tan finished with them!

Chaos can't help them and so can offer them nothing to corrupt them. Anything that Chaos does to restore them to flesh, their living metal will just repair. Then there is the whole "No souls to corrupt" thing.

Nope not true - Living Metal has its limits of self repair then it normally self destructs if unable to telport or repair - first page of the Necron codex.

You don't need a soul to be physically corrupted - rock and concreate can be physically corrupted - alot depends on if the Necrons are Blanks or not?

Rocks and concrete are not in themselves resistant to corruption like living mental.

Old or new fluff the Necrons are the worst thing GW ever added to 40K imo. Tomb Kings in Space... Lets make them invincible to everything and they never die but if they die they can get back up and psychic stuff won't hurt them et al, sounds like they used a kindergarten as a focus group when they designed the whole race.

Everything you said is false, except the get back up and Tomb Kings in space thing.

 Stonerhino wrote:
Rocks and concrete are not in themselves resistant to corruption like living mental.

Which has its limits at repair - as noted in the Codex usingly resulting in teleportation or self destruction.......

So your argument is "If they can be damaged to the point of being combat ineffective and thus self destruct or get teleported away. They are therefore able to be corrupted"???

But if it makes you feel better. Sure you could do "Something" to a Necron using the warp to cause them to be teleported back to the tomb where a Tomb spider cuts off the "Corrupted" parts, repairs the damage and then teleports that Necron back to the fighting. Just as they would with a Necron Damaged beyond it's repair ability.

However that is not the same "Corrupting the Necron" which the fluff says does not work.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Everything you said is false, except the get back up and Tomb Kings in space thing.

lol, so <50% of what I posted as fact is wrong, the rest being opinion which you can't refute.

They don't die, they resurrect, the warp doesn't hurt them/cant corrupt them. What part was wrong again or did you just get a bit flustered that I dissed your krew.

 Stonerhino wrote:
So your argument is "If they can be damaged to the point of being combat ineffective and thus self destruct or get teleported away. They are therefore able to be corrupted"???

But if it makes you feel better. Sure you could do "Something" to a Necron using the warp to cause them to be teleported back to the tomb where a Tomb spider cuts off the "Corrupted" parts, repairs the damage and then teleports that Necron back to the fighting. Just as they would with a Necron Damaged beyond it's repair ability.

However that is not the same "Corrupting the Necron" which the fluff says does not work.

Actually I thought that was the argument, and the counter-argument was they would not be affected at all by those sorts of corruptions at all, no matter what.

MarsNZ wrote:
Lets make them invincible to everything

Prove this statement.

and they never die

Prove this statement.

but if they die they can get back up

Obviously, but they can also die for good.

and psychic stuff won't hurt them et al,

Prove this statement.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Actually I thought that was the argument, and the counter-argument was they would not be affected at all by those sorts of corruptions at all, no matter what.

Needing extra 'Repairing" is not the same as being corrupted. You wouldn't call a human burned by warp fire "Corrupted" by that warp fire. Of course excluding you using warp fire on an already corrupted human. It is the same with the Necrons. Sure you can do direct effect spells on them and they have the desired effect untill the Necron repairs what that effect was. It would be no different then anything else that "Damages" them.

Perfect example being a Necron being affected by Gift of Chaos (5th ed, have not had this come up in 6th). They would turn into a spawn if a spawn model was available. If not then they were mutated to the point of being a casualty and then could self repair.

The new fluff just says that eventually that Necron turned Spawn would return (self repair) to its prespawn condition at some later point.

Edit: Desided on a different approach.

The Necrons are not immune to the effects of psychic powers. They are however "Entirely resistant" to being corrupted. The best way I can put it would be to liken the "Corruption" to any other form of damage. At least to the point of view of the Necron's repair protocals. The living metal would attempt to repair a limb becoming a tentical the same as it would a limb being smashed by a large rock. Can a limb be mutated to a tentical??? Yes the same as it can be smashed by a large enough rock hitting it. Repairing the damage is no different.

and they never die

Actually I can understand this sentiment when it comes to reading necron (both old and new) You can melt one beyond slagging with five minutes of melta, it'll still teleport back and repair, you destroy a tomb world. Those inside will teleport to a new one. So it seems like they never can really lose or die in combat and everything you throw at them is pretty much worthless unless you can blow up every single tomb world at once.

Though I'm not to sure on the teleporting anymore, since that was oldcron fluff. I might be mixing them a bit.

The new fluff just says that eventually that Necron turned Spawn would return (self repair) to its prespawn condition at some later point.

Yes but the argument was could be they affected at all by said spell. Or would it do nothing and they'd just blast you, so theoretically if you could stop the repair/teleport they'd stay a spawn, thus they could be corrupted and that's the crux of the debate. Could it work at All.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Yes but the argument was could be they affected at all by said spell. Or would it do nothing and they'd just blast you, so theoretically if you could stop the repair/teleport they'd stay a spawn, thus they could be corrupted and that's the crux of the debate. Could it work at All.

Long term no it does not work at all. The duration of a game of 40k sure but that is pretty limited view of how the necron resistance works.


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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Actually I can understand this sentiment when it comes to reading necron (both old and new) You can melt one beyond slagging with five minutes of melta, it'll still teleport back and repair, you destroy a tomb world. Those inside will teleport to a new one. So it seems like they never can really lose or die in combat and everything you throw at them is pretty much worthless unless you can blow up every single tomb world at once.

This was actually the best thing the Newcron's codex did. It made the Necrons defeatable. Still a near impossible feat but still there is the tinest of chances that the Dynasties don't start reforming into a united race again. When the threat reaches a level that they would need to.

The older fluff just had everyone screwed.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

and they never die

Actually I can understand this sentiment when it comes to reading necron (both old and new) You can melt one beyond slagging with five minutes of melta, it'll still teleport back and repair, you destroy a tomb world. Those inside will teleport to a new one. So it seems like they never can really lose or die in combat and everything you throw at them is pretty much worthless unless you can blow up every single tomb world at once.

Though I'm not to sure on the teleporting anymore, since that was oldcron fluff. I might be mixing them a bit.

The new fluff just says that eventually that Necron turned Spawn would return (self repair) to its prespawn condition at some later point.

Yes but the argument was could be they affected at all by said spell. Or would it do nothing and they'd just blast you, so theoretically if you could stop the repair/teleport they'd stay a spawn, thus they could be corrupted and that's the crux of the debate. Could it work at All.

Actually no, the new Codex is very clear on this - IF the Necron is damaged beyond repair it will either be teleported home OR if it is unable to be teleported or too damaged (or equally it would follow mutated) it will self destruct. It would also seem possible that the self destruct could in turn fail - highly unlikely but possible..........

Tomb Worlds and their inhabitants are utterely destroyed in a number of places in the Necron Codex, indeed some of these come about due to the machinations of the Necrons character who can travel in time. He gets away with it because all the Necrons he was acting on behalf are destroyed and gone.

Also the new fluff makes it so that with the Necron Overlords etc fighting each other - again another Tomb Kings thing - they can;t just port into each others Tomb Worlds at will - or if they do there will be conseqencies.

Actually no, the new Codex is very clear on this - IF the Necron is damaged beyond repair it will either be teleported home OR if it is unable to be teleported or too damaged (or equally it would follow mutated) it will self destruct. It would also seem possible that the self destruct could in turn fail - highly unlikely but possible..........

In that scenario, that would be successful corruption of the necrodermis. Whether its self-destruct protocols engage or not is entirely irrelevant.

No argument from me there

 Psienesis wrote:
In that scenario, that would be successful corruption of the necrodermis. Whether its self-destruct protocols engage or not is entirely irrelevant.

No it isn't.

Stop equating physical damage with being corrupted or mutated by Chaos. They are not the same, no matter how much you desperately wish it were the case.

What is the difference between physical mutation and physcial corruption?

In terms of Chaos?

There isn't one, really.

 Mr Morden wrote:
What is the difference between physical mutation and physcial corruption?

Huh? Check average baal mutant and average plague marine...

So, here we go... in handy, text-based-flow-chart design.

We have a Necron and a Chaos Sorcerer.

Chaos Sorcerer casts Tentacle-for-a-Face at the Necron.

1.) Does the spell affect the Necron?

Yes? The Necrodermis is subject to mutation by the Warp. The Necron grows a tentacle where its face was. Go to 2.

No? The Necrodermis is immune to the Warp, and thus should also not be affected by any Psychic power, because the Warp is the Warp is the Warp, what the appearance of its influences in the physical world are is pretty much irrelevant. Warp Effects to which the Necron is simply a secondary concern would still work normally (ie, opening a tentacle-and-fang-lined crevasse in the earth that eats anything standing on, above or around it). End.

2) Does the Necron get engage its self-repair systems, RP or Phase Out?
Doesn't matter. Whether the Necron permanently has a tentacle for a face or only has a tentacle for a face for a few minutes is besides the point. The Necrodermis has been shown to be mutable by Chaos.

Now all you need to do is cite a source backing your point, and then you'll have contributed as much to this thread as me, rather than attempting to speculate your way out of this.

The Throne-damned game.

Gameplay mechanics is not and never has been an argument.

 Psienesis wrote:
So, here we go... in handy, text-based-flow-chart design.

We have a Necron and a Chaos Sorcerer.

Chaos Sorcerer casts Tentacle-for-a-Face at the Necron.

1.) Does the spell affect the Necron?

Yes? The Necrodermis is subject to mutation by the Warp. The Necron grows a tentacle where its face was. Go to 2.

No? The Necrodermis is immune to the Warp, and thus should also not be affected by any Psychic power, because the Warp is the Warp is the Warp, what the appearance of its influences in the physical world are is pretty much irrelevant. Warp Effects to which the Necron is simply a secondary concern would still work normally (ie, opening a tentacle-and-fang-lined crevasse in the earth that eats anything standing on, above or around it). End.

2) Does the Necron get engage its self-repair systems, RP or Phase Out?
Doesn't matter. Whether the Necron permanently has a tentacle for a face or only has a tentacle for a face for a few minutes is besides the point. The Necrodermis has been shown to be mutable by Chaos.

Your misunderstanding what's being said. A Necron can literally swim around in the warp because it will repair any mutation faster then the mutation can do anything. So it is 100% resistant to the mutating effects of the warp. Even then, that is assuming that the warp can even mutate living metal in the first place.

That is different then using a direct effect "Spell" on a Necron which would just be repaired like any other damage. And is entirely different then being "Corrupted" or "Mutated by the warp". It is just damaged living metal which then gets repaired.

Lets say just for the sake of argument that a Darkmech priest found an active Ghost Ark with no driver. He can't get the vehicle to work so he draws a bunch of symbles on it, sacrafices 100 virgens while chanting the name of a Neverborn. The Neverborn shows up and hops into it's new ride. But rather then becoming a "Possessed Ghost Ark". The living metal would "Repair" the daemon out of it.

 Stonerhino wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
So, here we go... in handy, text-based-flow-chart design.

We have a Necron and a Chaos Sorcerer.

Chaos Sorcerer casts Tentacle-for-a-Face at the Necron.

1.) Does the spell affect the Necron?

Yes? The Necrodermis is subject to mutation by the Warp. The Necron grows a tentacle where its face was. Go to 2.

No? The Necrodermis is immune to the Warp, and thus should also not be affected by any Psychic power, because the Warp is the Warp is the Warp, what the appearance of its influences in the physical world are is pretty much irrelevant. Warp Effects to which the Necron is simply a secondary concern would still work normally (ie, opening a tentacle-and-fang-lined crevasse in the earth that eats anything standing on, above or around it). End.

2) Does the Necron get engage its self-repair systems, RP or Phase Out?
Doesn't matter. Whether the Necron permanently has a tentacle for a face or only has a tentacle for a face for a few minutes is besides the point. The Necrodermis has been shown to be mutable by Chaos.

Your misunderstanding what's being said. A Necron can literally swim around in the warp because it will repair any mutation faster then the mutation can do anything. So it is 100% resistant to the mutating effects of the warp. Even then, that is assuming that the warp can even mutate living metal in the first place.

That is different then using a direct effect "Spell" on a Necron which would just be repaired like any other damage. And is entirely different then being "Corrupted" or "Mutated by the warp". It is just damaged living metal which then gets repaired.

Lets say just for the sake of argument that a Darkmech priest found an active Ghost Ark with no driver. He can't get the vehicle to work so he draws a bunch of symbles on it, sacrafices 100 virgens while chanting the name of a Neverborn. The Neverborn shows up and hops into it's new ride. But rather then becoming a "Possessed Ghost Ark". The living metal would "Repair" the daemon out of it.

The question is if the Necron Living Metal is in effect the same as a Blank - why is it effected by any form of Psychic power? Surely it would not be - whether it be attempts ot mutate or warp lightning?

Also Living Metal does not repair any and all damage or effects. It degrades steadily over time and if overwhelmed and unable to cope tries to port out and if fails - destroys itself. It is no way infallible or indestructible as you seem to think as noted throughout the Codex. Remember even the vaunted Cadian Gate pylons began to disintegrate and fracture under the assault of the warp (p11 Codex: Eye of Terror)

So is the idea that the Living Metal Shell is actually a Blank as a result of the Necron soul removal or something else entirely ?

I'm making it an argument. Fluff is fluff, the recounting of a tale by the victors, layered in mythic imagery and religious devotion to the protagonists of the tales, building events into legends and repeating as gospel hearsay and rumors of events that transpired light-years and centuries, if not millennia, away. That Marneus Calgar held a pass against an entire Ork Waaaagh for three days (or a week, or a month, or a year) is not at question... that he did it single-handedly, with nothing but a broken chainsword and a pointy stick, *that* is the stuff of legends. A Space Marine's Power Armor stops, as we are told, up to 85% of the damage of incoming fire that is capable of piercing Power Armor. There's a whole lot of weapons on the battlefield that can get through PA. So a single Marine falling to a horde of grots is possible. Not likely, but possible (made moreso because half these fools don't even wear a Throne-damned helmet, but I digress...).

Even the Grey Knights, who have never had a member fall to Chaos, can have their bodies corrupted by the Warp. That their souls remain pure and loyal is besides the fact (and, at times, requires certain arcane rituals and preparations in order to make it so. It's not automatic) that their flesh can fall.

So, too, is it with the Necrons. While their minds... or, rather, the personality engrams (such as they are) that pass for their personalities (inasmuch as a given Necron can be said to have personality) that constitute an individual Necron's sense of self (if any) may be essentially untouchable by Chaos (in that it either has no sense of self or exists in a tetradecimal format that the various meme-viruses and scrap-codes of the Dark Mechanicus has yet to crack), that does not mean that the Necrodermis cannot be made to forcefully undergo transformation, either in whole or in part. We have seen that the C'Tan, and later the Eldar, are capable of creating and deploying a code-virus that forces permanent changes to the Necrodermis, as well as a fundamental corruption of its operating protocols. The C'Tan are powerful, to be sure, but they are, in essence, the equivalents of the Great Four in the material universe (being that the Warp is utterly anathema to them). Why, then, should we be surprised that the Necrons, by all accounts an inferior species to the C'Tan but crafty enough to destroy these beings when they were at their weakest, are subject to energies that were inimical to their own gods?

Except the Living Metal of their bodies is directly stated to be entirely resistant to mutation... Of Chaos.

What the C'tan did and are is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

Still waiting for you to cite that source.

I'm not accepting of a third-party company's take on the matter. End of story.

That's cool, as long as you understand that is solely your prerogative, and that you have no evidence to contradict it.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Also Living Metal does not repair any and all damage or effects. It degrades steadily over time and if overwhelmed and unable to cope tries to port out and if fails - destroys itself. It is no way infallible or indestructible as you seem to think as noted throughout the Codex. Remember even the vaunted Cadian Gate pylons began to disintegrate and fracture under the assault of the warp (p11 Codex: Eye of Terror)

No, you are underestemating its repair abilities. Holding onto the fail safe of the fail safe for their repair protocals does not limit living metal's abilities. But rather shows that the Necrons have planned for events that are the extreme of what you can imagine to defeat them.

There have been fluff quotes demonstrating that the corrupting effects warp has no effect on living metal. Untill you can actually provide any proof other then "The Necrons have layers of fail safes that sometimes can come into play". Your argument is entirely baseless.

There is a single quote from the FFG book that states this which I had not theard before this thread - which does not invalidate it at all but just raised more questions for me about why its vulnerable to direct damage but not mutation caused by Psykers. Again how does the Necron material work against direct Psyker based effects?

Your keep misreading the information in the actual codex where its very clear that Living Metal is not infaliable at all.

FACT- It degrades steadily over time
FACT It can only cope with a specific amount of damage before its overwhelmed and either destroyed, sefl destructs or is teleported back to been repaired or reduced to energy to provide raw materials.

 Mr Morden wrote:
There is a single quote from the FFG book that states this which I had not theard before this thread - which does not invalidate it at all but just raised more questions for me about why its vulnerable to direct damage but not mutation caused by Psykers. Again how does the Necron material work against direct Psyker based effects?

Your keep misreading the information in the actual codex where its very clear that Living Metal is not infaliable at all.

FACT- It degrades steadily over time
FACT It can only cope with a specific amount of damage before its overwhelmed and either destroyed, sefl destructs or is teleported back to been repaired or reduced to energy to provide raw materials.

Because there is a difference between being unscathed from a bolt of lightning or remaining completely intact from a telekinetic bullet, than there is actually trying to merge the essence of the Warp with it and mutate it. This isn't exactly rocket science, nor is there a contradiction, but hey keep pretending there is.

Neither of those two facts are evidence that the Warp can mutate Living Metal, but hey, go ahead and keep pretending they are.

I have misread nothing, I understand perfectly.

I was actually responding to Stonerhino who I feel overstimates the awesomeness of Necrons repair ability.

What I was asking was if the quote is correct what is it about Necron material that makes it so impervious to Choas influence but not direct psychic assault when a Blank would be immune to both? Does the FFG book go into any more detail about this and how it works?

 Mr Morden wrote:
I was actually responding to Stonerhino who I feel overstimates the awesomeness of Necrons repair ability.

What I was asking was if the quote is correct what is it about Necron material that makes it so impervious to Choas influence but not direct psychic assault when a Blank would be immune to both? Does the FFG book go into any more detail about this and how it works?

Not really, even by its base mechanics and stats for it's own necrons they are still able to be corrupted and mutated somehow.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I was actually responding to Stonerhino who I feel overstimates the awesomeness of Necrons repair ability.

Not at all. According to Black Crusade Necrons will eventually heal any type of damage unless it is slain. Even then there is an optional rule that allows them to stand back up even if slain. With very few exceptions they get teleported away instead. It is only when they are 1 slain, 2 fail to teleport and 3 are at risk of being captured by the enemy do they self destruct per the codex.

 Mr Morden wrote:
What I was asking was if the quote is correct what is it about Necron material that makes it so impervious to Choas influence but not direct psychic assault when a Blank would be immune to both? Does the FFG book go into any more detail about this and how it works?

Its really just an effect of hand waving saying that "Necron technology is advanced beyond what we can imagine". I think its easiest to just lump it together with their repair protocals. In that that corruption would be seen as damage and repaired away. At the very worst teleported to a stasis chamber untill the resources could be allocated to repair it.






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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Not really, even by its base mechanics and stats for it's own necrons they are still able to be corrupted and mutated somehow.

Not really. In Death Watch the Outer Reach. There is a story of the "Bloody Prince" who becomes a destroyer. His body reshapes to fit this new role. The Flayer curse likely works the same. The body changes to match the mind controlling it.

Not really. In Death Watch the Outer Reach. There is a story of the "Bloody Prince" who becomes a destroyer. His body reshapes to fit this new role. The Flayer curse likely works the same. The body changes to match the mind controlling it.

By mechanics I mean actual gameplay from within Black Crusade's supplement The Tome Of Fate.

The necrons have nothing that prevent corruption or mutation.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
Lets make them invincible to everything

Prove this statement.

and they never die

Prove this statement.

but if they die they can get back up

Obviously, but they can also die for good.

and psychic stuff won't hurt them et al,

Prove this statement.

This entire thread is the proof of these statements.

I am totally down with an undead robot army in 40k, I like the idea. But why can't they just be incredibly hard to destroy and have a strong resistance to the warp while still being able to be destroyed and corrupted? Sure, they're tough and that makes them a huge threat, just as all the Xenos are potentially the final threat to the Imperium. But why do so many in this thread feel the need for them to be able to repair everything?