Well it's finally official now but space marines are getting the storm raven!

I'm totally adding one with my vulcan list and some little birds (storm talons) as escorts. I love those things lol.

(see GW main page)

Wonder if GK will get the storm talon? I'd love to try one of those with psybolts and assault cannon+heavy bolters on the cheap.

Does not look like the talon is being opened up like the raven is, its a shame becasue I would quite like to take one in gk's to, it would fill a useful rule, I guess thats what allies are for

And now they cost 8 bucks more than a landraider...

Sigh

Yah, everyone gets something that is supposed to be unique to BA and GK while BA and GK get diddly in return.

So exciting.

I'm trying to think what I'm gonna call my missiles for my salamanders army. Fire strike missiles seem too tame and normal. I'm thinking firedrake melta missiles or flameforged death strikes or firehammer lizard missiles!

But in all seriousness I'm so pumped to be able to get a storm raven for my vanilla marines and not have to ally them in. As anti flyer as I have been this whole time since 6th Ed. Dropped I can already feel it changing! Time to start learning how to use them and not just fight against them.

I cant wait to put some sternguard in it.

Chancetragedy wrote:
I'm trying to think what I'm gonna call my missiles for my salamanders army. Fire strike missiles seem too tame and normal. I'm thinking firedrake melta missiles or flameforged death strikes or firehammer lizard missiles!

But in all seriousness I'm so pumped to be able to get a storm raven for my vanilla marines and not have to ally them in. As anti flyer as I have been this whole time since 6th Ed. Dropped I can already feel it changing! Time to start learning how to use them and not just fight against them.

Magma strike missiles.

That's actually not half bad!

Edit:I'm totally modelling mine as lizard warheads as well. Gotta keep that oot theme.

It's going to be nice to play the only power armor army in the entire game that can't get flyers without allies.

I wish I knew point costs and upgrades, my thoughts:
5 Sword Brethren Assault Termies, with Furious charge
1 Master of Sanctity, artificer armor, PF and LC
EC, AACNMTO
1 Chaplain Dreadnought with either 2 DCCWs or a flamestorm cannon...

It's probably a bazillion points and will get shot down as it enters..., but if it makes it I think tears of joy will pour down my face!

 Ma55ter_fett wrote:
And now they cost 8 bucks more than a landraider...

Sigh

What? they have been the same price for a long time.. Like at least 6 months, probably longer

Anyway my Carcharodons will be getting a couple, if only to paint up and sit on the display shelf.

Chancetragedy wrote:
I'm trying to think what I'm gonna call my missiles for my salamanders army. Fire strike missiles seem too tame and normal. I'm thinking firedrake melta missiles or flameforged death strikes or firehammer lizard missiles!

But in all seriousness I'm so pumped to be able to get a storm raven for my vanilla marines and not have to ally them in. As anti flyer as I have been this whole time since 6th Ed. Dropped I can already feel it changing! Time to start learning how to use them and not just fight against them.

Does the name Flamestrike already exist for something?

Too bad they aren't available to Dark Angels. The Dark Talon is pretty meh.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
It's going to be nice to play the only power armor army in the entire game that can't get flyers without allies.

Not until the Sisters get a flying cathedral.

whoadirty wrote:

Chancetragedy wrote:
I'm trying to think what I'm gonna call my missiles for my salamanders army. Fire strike missiles seem too tame and normal. I'm thinking firedrake melta missiles or flameforged death strikes or firehammer lizard missiles!

But in all seriousness I'm so pumped to be able to get a storm raven for my vanilla marines and not have to ally them in. As anti flyer as I have been this whole time since 6th Ed. Dropped I can already feel it changing! Time to start learning how to use them and not just fight against them.

Does the name Flamestrike already exist for something?

I don't think so. I know their is a flame storm.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:It's going to be nice to play the only power armor army in the entire game that can't get flyers without allies.

Yeah, "storm ravens for all!" indeed. Two chapters still seem to lack them. Not very "all" is it? Not to mention SW still not having anything to deal with flyers, their own or Flakk is perplexing. I get them being more CC focused but if I've to expect flyers in every competitive game I... Oh right, ally with IG. Forgot.

whoadirty wrote:
Does the name Flamestrike already exist for something?

A spell in Ultima Online?

KaryudoDS wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:It's going to be nice to play the only power armor army in the entire game that can't get flyers without allies.

Yeah, "storm ravens for all!" indeed. Two chapters still seem to lack them. Not very "all" is it? Not to mention SW still not having anything to deal with flyers, their own or Flakk is perplexing. I get them being more CC focused but if I've to expect flyers in every competitive game I... Oh right, ally with IG. Forgot.

whoadirty wrote:
Does the name Flamestrike already exist for something?

A spell in Ultima Online?

Eh, you're not missing anything. The big flyers these days laugh at stormravens. Vendettas blow them away, and Heldrakes shrug off their shots.

 Happygrunt wrote:
Yah, everyone gets something that is supposed to be unique to BA and GK while BA and GK get diddly in return.

So exciting.

I know your pain man, dont know why all chapters dont get talons if the vanillas get them... maybe not GK coz they're rather specialised and dont have many things other marine dexs have.
But hey, i guess we have to roll with it

The real question.

"Did they change the point values of the flyers?"

 sudojoe wrote:
Well it's finally official now but space marines are getting the storm raven!

I'm totally adding one with my vulcan list and some little birds (storm talons) as escorts. I love those things lol.

(see GW main page)

Wonder if GK will get the storm talon? I'd love to try one of those with psybolts and assault cannon+heavy bolters on the cheap.

Well, you don't know what slot the storm raven will be in. Its its in the FA section then you wont be able to bring 6 flyers.


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 Happygrunt wrote:
Yah, everyone gets something that is supposed to be unique to BA and GK while BA and GK get diddly in return.

So exciting.

They might be the ability to take the storm talon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:
Too bad they aren't available to Dark Angels. The Dark Talon is pretty meh.

Yea, DA got the shaft on flyers.

They just sit there looking out the window at the helldrake and letting out one big sigh...

I also note that the stormtalon just picked up Hover as well. Will this make much diference, considering they already had hover strike?

Do you have a copy of the book? If so, did they change the cost of any of the flyers?

Seriously...I don't play in tournies. I just enjoy playing. GW can perform an anotomically impossible act while I just proxy stuff.

ender502

 labmouse42 wrote:
Do you have a copy of the book? If so, did they change the cost of any of the flyers?

I don't have the book but the main rulebook FAQ has been updated to change the unit type to flyer, hover.


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I would have thought that if the points costs were being modified it would be included in the faqs as there are a bunch of other rules changes added, like valkyries losing scout and most of the other flyers losing deep strike as these are no longer legal deployments

Yea, I saw that, thanks for pointing out the new FAQs

I'm suprised that the talon did not get passed back to the GK/BA codex's.
It gives a solid boost to C:SM and BTs. C:SM is actually becoming more and more competitive now.
I can really see someone brining a C:SM list with 6 flyers (assuming the stormravens are in HS) That could be a real challange to deal with.

@Labmouse - I think the raven going to C:SM puts the codex into the upper middle tier possibly lower top tier. I thought they were super competitive in 6th before this addition and can't wait to see what it actually does for the codex. The only thing I think could improve the codex more and really put it up there is if our Libby's got access to divination psychic powers.

I seen on the gw site its listed in the hs section for vanilla marines, so 6 flyers it is......

I can see people bringing this..

3 stormtalons w/TL ACs and Skyhammer MLs
3 stormravens w/TL MM, TL AC, Hurricane bolters

This will set your army back 1125 points. It gives you strong air superiority, with the following firepower
24 STR 6 AP 4 rending AC shots
3 STR 8 AP 1 melta shots
9 STR 7 AP 4 shots
36 bolter shots
every round.....
Oh, and 12 STR 8 AP 1 missiles
And you can transport 3 dreads and 3 squads.

I see this being a hard counter to hell drake and daemon lists

I see that being a hard counter to almost any list lol. Add an ADL with comms relay and you'll be a pretty scary army.

Except if they manage to table you turn 1

Mythantor wrote:
Except if they manage to table you turn 1

Thats why you start with 20 scouts. Just have them go to ground when shot at. That's very hard to have them dislodged at range before turn 2.

To really secure your spot, add a bastion and stick some guys inside. AV 14 is extremely hard to crack at range, and it provides a platform for the comm-relay.

So 1245 for ADL and flyers. At 2k I can take 3 tacticals with rhinos and ML'S or MM and flamers and rhinos for like 615 so we have 1860 leaving 140 for an HQ. probably a Libby with SS/force axe. That's 3 rhinos and 31 models starting on the board with more than 50% chance of night fighting. Probably hiding in cover, that'll be stupid hard to table turn 1.

And you can even combat squad the marines, so you can put 3 squads in storm ravens so you can drop them on objectives late game. That way your not just relying upon wiping your opponent.

Ill take that over a french-flying-bakery list any day of the week.

That's what I'm saying!! Now with that said there is no way in hell I'm spending 400$+ USD for 3 storm ravens and 3 talons(the talons are still one of the ugliest models IMO) to run that list. But that is still scary as hell. I intend on buying a raven and seeing how I like it and really how the meta will shift with this release. Then if need be ill buy another raven or try and figure out a way to make the talon look good(buy a nephillim maybe).

Hahaha something I just thought about can the talons escort the ravens getting 2 flyers per role?

I like the idea of clumping your reserves.

Still, an comm-relay is the real key. Changing the chance of successful reserves from 2/3 to 8/9 is huge.
I also really like the bastion. One unit inside a bastion is extremely hard to dislodge. You need to land a squad of flamers to burn them out -- thats about the only thing that can do it.
If you have another squad on top, then that does not even work to get tabled.

The other thing is the bastion replaces the cost of 1-2 rhinos, so its extremely cheap. In this list you would not need an ADL. It would hamper your army more than help it.

Maybe Hydra Flak Tanks will become usefull.. Nice.

OK then, storm ravens for some, miniature American flags for others.

I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

Good boost to C:SM's though, I think they're really shaping up this edition.

 More Dakka wrote:


I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

When has fluff gotten in the way of the SW codex?

Touche!

 Griddlelol wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:


I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

When has fluff gotten in the way of the SW codex?

When their terminators don't have the option to teleport in, and need to be put in a drop-pod if they want to deep-strike.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I can see people bringing this..

3 stormtalons w/TL ACs and Skyhammer MLs
3 stormravens w/TL MM, TL AC, Hurricane bolters

This will set your army back 1125 points. It gives you strong air superiority, with the following firepower
24 STR 6 AP 4 rending AC shots
3 STR 8 AP 1 melta shots
9 STR 7 AP 4 shots
36 bolter shots
every round.....
Oh, and 12 STR 8 AP 1 missiles
And you can transport 3 dreads and 3 squads.

I see this being a hard counter to hell drake and daemon lists

Yeah its all fun and games until you play that one guy with the 9 vendettas and all your flyers come in first...

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:


I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

When has fluff gotten in the way of the SW codex?

When their terminators don't have the option to teleport in, and need to be put in a drop-pod if they want to deep-strike.

Yet, they have the strongest psykers in the Imperium (even though they distrust and hate psykers), and their battle doctrine is supposed to be close-combat oriented, but their dedicated assault unit is considered one of the worst and their heavy weapon squads (definately not close combat oriented) are considered the best.

 Flinty wrote:
I also note that the stormtalon just picked up Hover as well. Will this make much diference, considering they already had hover strike?

I'm willing to bet they dropped Hover Strike for Hover Mode and Strafing Run.

EDIT: Dropping 5 40pt Assault Terminators and either a Chaplain/Libriarian/Lysander/Calgar out of a Stormraven with a Contemptor/Ironclad hanging off the ass seems like a good time.

 More Dakka wrote:
OK then, storm ravens for some, miniature American flags for others.

I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

Good boost to C:SM's though, I think they're really shaping up this edition.

I'm cool with them being ground bound in a fight but seriously... they couldn't even get Wolf Rocks with Sky Fire to throw at them or something? Just seems like if GW were to single them out at least give them a built in defense. Beyond limited fortification options that aren't very Space Wolfy.

What missiles are the vannila and Templars getting with their ravens.

Well, they have access to prescience and crazy amounts of S8 with split firing Longfangs. Plus, with the exception of Cron Air and IG Air Cav flyers haven't really proven to be completely game changing (maybe 3x Helldrakes fall into this category too, haven't run up against them more than once now). Scoring objectives is way more crucial in my experience.

 More Dakka wrote:
Well, they have access to prescience and crazy amounts of S8 with split firing Longfangs. Plus, with the exception of Cron Air and IG Air Cav flyers haven't really proven to be completely game changing (maybe 3x Helldrakes fall into this category too, haven't run up against them more than once now). Scoring objectives is way more crucial in my experience.

3 drakes really isn't that great I played them at 1k, and destroyed them both before they did any real damage.

I wonder if gk stormraven shifted to heavy support. IT shows so in the gw page which i hope is a mistake.

 Warp Angels wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
Yah, everyone gets something that is supposed to be unique to BA and GK while BA and GK get diddly in return.

So exciting.

I know your pain man, dont know why all chapters dont get talons if the vanillas get them... maybe not GK coz they're rather specialised and dont have many things other marine dexs have.
But hey, i guess we have to roll with it

Considering that everyone got BT's Crusader, everyone got DA's rifledreads (mortis dreads), and FoC change (Yes this WAS specific to just chaos and DA)

I hope not, but if they do, what happens then? I dont plan on buying this so I can just use it as Fast, but someone who buys this makes there ones heavy support?

Unless I am mistaken, this is not an official expansion to the rules that everyone needs a copy of is it?

I will always play mine as fast until the next codex is released.

Anyone seen the rules yet? No Gw by me

Flyers? We don't need no stinking flyers!

How I wish this whole Stormraven debacle would turn out:

GW: Stormravens for all

Us: Boo!

GW: Very well, Stormravens for none!

Us: Boo!

GW: Hmm, Stormravens for some, free flak missile upgrades for others!

Us: Yay!

KaryudoDS wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
OK then, storm ravens for some, miniature American flags for others.

I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

Good boost to C:SM's though, I think they're really shaping up this edition.

I'm cool with them being ground bound in a fight but seriously... they couldn't even get Wolf Rocks with Sky Fire to throw at them or something? Just seems like if GW were to single them out at least give them a built in defense. Beyond limited fortification options that aren't very Space Wolfy.

quit whining, as a tau player, (no skyfire, no flyer outside of forgeworld) its pretty much the same thing, i have to rely on allies, or imperium fortications (also very un-tau-y) for good anti-flyer, broad sides work ok but i would rather kill tanks with them than have to shoot down 120 pt doom machines)

Eldercaveman wrote:
What missiles are the vannila and Templars getting with their ravens.

This.

What missiles are they getting? Bloodstrike missiles? Anyone care to share please.

Vanillastrike and Blackstrike missiles, obviously or maybe Ultrastrike?

Vanillastrike sounds a bit like a ben and jerrys flavour though...

The GW site description refers to a "Stormstrike" Missle now on the Stormraven along with Mindstrike and Bloodstrike.

Yay, GW just killed my last reason to play blood angels. I'm so happy I haven't started painting them yet.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Yay, GW just killed my last reason to play blood angels. I'm so happy I haven't started painting them yet.

-Matt

BA is a terribly flawed codex anyways. Probably just ahead of BT as far as marine codices go. Too bad because they have some of the best fluff and models out there for Marines.

About the only reason I can now see to run my force as BA anymore is because I want Baal Predators!

If I could find a way to get a vanilla force with Baals without allies I would do it.

Question now is - what are GW going to do (if anything!) to make BA more unique again? Another tank or something?

Personally I would have liked to see the Talon become available to BA, I dont use the Ravens at the moment, id rather have the option of the Talons for BA.

BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

Chancetragedy wrote:
BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

The problem being that those are 3 elite choices and a fast attack. Baal's are neat, but not great. All the others are crowded in elites.
Blender dread going to AP3 nerfed it pretty hard. Dread Psyker is good, but why not just take psyker and a dread? You don't save many points in taking them combined.
Blood Angels lose some option codex marines have; I'd really like a thunderfire cannon, or better special characters, cheaper hammernaters...

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Chancetragedy wrote:
BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

The problem being that those are 3 elite choices and a fast attack. Baal's are neat, but not great. All the others are crowded in elites.
Blender dread going to AP3 nerfed it pretty hard. Dread Psyker is good, but why not just take psyker and a dread? You don't save many points in taking them combined.
Blood Angels lose some option codex marines have; I'd really like a thunderfire cannon, or better special characters, cheaper hammernaters...

-Matt

The next codex will go against all established fluff and we will get death company bikers and terminators.

Eldercaveman wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Chancetragedy wrote:
BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

The problem being that those are 3 elite choices and a fast attack. Baal's are neat, but not great. All the others are crowded in elites.
Blender dread going to AP3 nerfed it pretty hard. Dread Psyker is good, but why not just take psyker and a dread? You don't save many points in taking them combined.
Blood Angels lose some option codex marines have; I'd really like a thunderfire cannon, or better special characters, cheaper hammernaters...

-Matt

The next codex will go against all established fluff and we will get death company bikers and terminators.

and devastators

 Exergy wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Chancetragedy wrote:
BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

The problem being that those are 3 elite choices and a fast attack. Baal's are neat, but not great. All the others are crowded in elites.
Blender dread going to AP3 nerfed it pretty hard. Dread Psyker is good, but why not just take psyker and a dread? You don't save many points in taking them combined.
Blood Angels lose some option codex marines have; I'd really like a thunderfire cannon, or better special characters, cheaper hammernaters...

-Matt

The next codex will go against all established fluff and we will get death company bikers and terminators.

and devastators

With split fire, because they are too rage filled to shoot at the same target.

 Ross74H wrote:
About the only reason I can now see to run my force as BA anymore is because I want Baal Predators!

If I could find a way to get a vanilla force with Baals without allies I would do it.

Question now is - what are GW going to do (if anything!) to make BA more unique again? Another tank or something?

Personally I would have liked to see the Talon become available to BA, I dont use the Ravens at the moment, id rather have the option of the Talons for BA.

There's always the Forgeworld variety of Baals that Vanilla Marines can take.

Crazyterran wrote:

 Ross74H wrote:
About the only reason I can now see to run my force as BA anymore is because I want Baal Predators!

If I could find a way to get a vanilla force with Baals without allies I would do it.

Question now is - what are GW going to do (if anything!) to make BA more unique again? Another tank or something?

Personally I would have liked to see the Talon become available to BA, I dont use the Ravens at the moment, id rather have the option of the Talons for BA.

There's always the Forgeworld variety of Baals that Vanilla Marines can take.

Who? What? Where? When? And why?

All seriousness what are these, don't think I've ever seen them, do you know there actual name?

Also talking of forgeworld, people could have always took a storm eagle, before the storm raven.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Predator_Executioner.pdf

That''s a mad piece of gear, may be tempted.... damn you



Edit: Nope just looked at it, that's an ugly looking Predator, I'll stick with my Baals (beware auto type on that one)

HawaiiMatt wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Predator_Executioner.pdf

crazy good when you compare it to a plasma Forgefiend that costs almost twice as much, has lower front armor, less range, and worse BS. Of course its plasma is +1 str and you get the 5++ but it isnt worth the cost.

I'm a little angry with C:SM getting the stormraven. This is only because I have 3 talons and every time I bought 1, I wished I could use a raven instead. Now I get to spend more money, great.

This is apparently the dev's meeting

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Chancetragedy wrote:
BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

The problem being that those are 3 elite choices and a fast attack. Baal's are neat, but not great. All the others are crowded in elites.
Blender dread going to AP3 nerfed it pretty hard. Dread Psyker is good, but why not just take psyker and a dread? You don't save many points in taking them combined.
Blood Angels lose some option codex marines have; I'd really like a thunderfire cannon, or better special characters, cheaper hammernaters...

-Matt

so wait, first you complain that they took away what makes the ba codex unique, then you say that the ba codex should have what makes c:sm unique?

 Ross74H wrote:
About the only reason I can now see to run my force as BA anymore is because I want Baal Predators!

If I could find a way to get a vanilla force with Baals without allies I would do it.

Question now is - what are GW going to do (if anything!) to make BA more unique again? Another tank or something?

Personally I would have liked to see the Talon become available to BA, I dont use the Ravens at the moment, id rather have the option of the Talons for BA.

Thunderangel Cavalry, clearly.

 thehod wrote:
This is apparently the dev's meeting

I lol'd quite heartily at that one. Maybe it's GW's making up for everyone's complaints about SW being OP. What's the easiest way to nuke them? Give every army flyers and make sure SW don't get any anti air without getting extra stuff.

Oh so its Stormravens that make BA unique.. I always thought it was Red Thirst, Black Rage, Baal Preds, Death Company, Sanguinary Priests, Sanguinary Guard, Descent of Angels, Assault Marines as Troops, etc.

Seriously if you were just playing BA for the stormraven then you probably should have been playing GK.

 Commander_Nightflier wrote:

KaryudoDS wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
OK then, storm ravens for some, miniature American flags for others.

I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

Good boost to C:SM's though, I think they're really shaping up this edition.

I'm cool with them being ground bound in a fight but seriously... they couldn't even get Wolf Rocks with Sky Fire to throw at them or something? Just seems like if GW were to single them out at least give them a built in defense. Beyond limited fortification options that aren't very Space Wolfy.

quit whining, as a tau player, (no skyfire, no flyer outside of forgeworld) its pretty much the same thing, i have to rely on allies, or imperium fortications (also very un-tau-y) for good anti-flyer, broad sides work ok but i would rather kill tanks with them than have to shoot down 120 pt doom machines)

Convert your own fortifications. There are some great looking Tau fort pictures online. Use Burst Cannons on longer barrels for a Quad Gun, and a bunch of semicircles for the Aegis.

Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:


I lol'd quite heartily at that one. Maybe it's GW's making up for everyone's complaints about SW being OP. What's the easiest way to nuke them? Give every army flyers and make sure SW don't get any anti air without getting extra stuff.

Well, not that extra. Fortifications are in the BRB and a couple IG/SM(or DA just for fun!) are all perfectly useable in a game if with a slightly different style. Of course it does beg the question of how SW deal with those big things in the sky trying to nuke them because by their Codex alone they're out of luck without holding hands with someone. On the other hand I have a feeling BT got it to keep the remaining BT audience holding on with SM being the primary audiences go-to. May as well make it easy for them to get mommy to spend money I guess. Really sort of odd leaving SW and DA out of it though...

Roll BA into C:SM

Baal Predators are the bomb. Especially the damn flame storm (?) (S6 AP3) template one. I hates it, precious!

HawaiiMatt wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Predator_Executioner.pdf

If this were actually a fast vehicle with scout, you'd have a point.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Roll BA into C:SM

They might as well at this point.


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And as far as I'm concerned, the other chapters are welcome to have this thing. I hope they all make the mistake of actually using the transport capacity. They can call in my BA to squeegee up all their body parts off the battlefield after the thing get shot down with all their precious stuff in it. The Stormraven, to me, is just a flyer tax on my army and sucks big time compared to the vendetta.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Seriously if you were just playing BA for the stormraven then you probably should have been playing GK."

Nah, GKs are for people that like to win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and poor SW, how will they get along without the stormraven? They'll just have to make due with that allied vendetta squadron. So they'll have some IG guys shoot down fliers before they whip everyone's asses in HTH after being assaulted.

Martel732 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and poor SW, how will they get along without the stormraven? They'll just have to make due with that allied vendetta squadron. So they'll have some IG guys shoot down fliers before they whip everyone's asses in HTH after being assaulted.

Just like literally every other army bar Nids get to do too. The point SW players are making is that to get that Vendetta, they need to go out and buy a bunch of other stuff just to get a flyer as opposed to everyone else just going out and buying the flyer for their army and not dealing with the allied detachment taking points away from their main army.

If I were really competitive, I'd be doing that with the BA already. The Vendetta is that much better than the Stormraven.

Martel732 wrote:
If I were really competitive, I'd be doing that with the BA already. The Vendetta is that much better than the Stormraven.

Honestly, the Stormraven's better than the Vendetta (twin-linked Multi-melta + Bloodstrikes + turret AC/PC/LC that can fire at 2 different targets, are useful vs both infantry and vehicles and with a higher BS beats 3 TLLC imho), the Vendetta is only better in that it is a far cheaper investment. However, buying a Stormraven is cheaper than buying CCS + Veteran Squad + Vendetta, especially if you want the additional units to contribute. That said, they're not a bad investment, but the point is that you're going to be spending ~400+pts on allies in order to get that flyer.

For the points, the Vendetta makes the Stormraven look stupid as hell. That''s what matters. I never get stormraven without paying for it.

Plus, I'd have to mathhammer it, but for what I want fliers for (to shoot other fliers) 3 48" TL BS 3 skyfire lascannons are pretty hard to beat. That stacks up well against a TL MM, TL lascannon, and some one-off STR 8 missiles. After the Stormraven has expended its missiles, it's firepower is pretty pedestrian, and horrible for the points.

I'm pretty sure those IG squds can pack in quite a few weapons, so it's not like they are a real burden on the list. And SW infantry are already crazy efficient. How many tac marines does it take to beat up a squad of grey hunters? I don't even want to know.

...enough to kill a wolf lord, right Andilus? lol, good times

I think you're forgetting how dangerous the AP1 weapons are on the stormraven and not giving them enough credit. Vendettas are cheese mostly in how cheap they are, as was pointed out, as well as in a small part their high output for firepower, but the stormraven has quite a few nasty tricks up its sleeve and more importantly, it doesn't need to protect the rear nearly as much.

 Exergy wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Predator_Executioner.pdf

crazy good when you compare it to a plasma Forgefiend that costs almost twice as much, has lower front armor, less range, and worse BS. Of course its plasma is +1 str and you get the 5++ but it isnt worth the cost.

That heavy conversion beamer is amazing. S10 AP1, 5" blast. That's gotta chafe. 140 pts seems good for that price - it's fire power is a bit like 2 zoanthropes but with the range. 200 pts for the lascannons as well makes it pricey, but something to think about.

Agree the model looks a bit strange, but the MKIVC has a real cool turret. Scratch build a new weapon for the front and there you go.

Can anyone confirm that the Storm Raven is a heavy support for GK now? Because that would just be terrible
Not only do we now loose the ability to take the combination of multiple Storm Ravens/DK and Psyfuldreads but we loose our best fast attack while Vanilla gain the ability to take 6 flyers?! WTF

Martel732 wrote:
For the points, the Vendetta makes the Stormraven look stupid as hell. That''s what matters. I never get stormraven without paying for it.

You have a bad case of 'grass is greener' man. I strongly suggest running your BA as either counts-as for C:SM or SW. One of the perks of playing marines is that you can swap between the main marine codex'es with just a little work. Just keep your stuff WYSIWYG and noone will give you problems in person.

Martel732 wrote:
For the points, the Vendetta makes the Stormraven look stupid as hell. That''s what matters. I never get stormraven without paying for it.

Plus, I'd have to mathhammer it, but for what I want fliers for (to shoot other fliers) 3 48" TL BS 3 skyfire lascannons are pretty hard to beat. That stacks up well against a TL MM, TL lascannon, and some one-off STR 8 missiles. After the Stormraven has expended its missiles, it's firepower is pretty pedestrian, and horrible for the points.

So is Death from the Skies official 40k rules cover to cover? I know some people will choose not to use some rules for whatever butthurt reasons, but in my area we play up to date offical rules. Are the dog fight rules no longer optional?

 Goat wrote:
So is Death from the Skies official 40k rules cover to cover? I know some people will choose not to use some rules for whatever butthurt reasons, but in my area we play up to date offical rules. Are the dog fight rules no longer optional?

No one has the book. No one can answer what in the book is optional and what isn't, yet.

Also comparing to the vendetta is a moot point. Everyone knows the vendetta is total bs for its points and nothing going forward is likely to be that bs anymore.

Also it is pointless to compare it to a vendetta unless you are considering taking a vendetta.

 Leth wrote:
Also comparing to the vendetta is a moot point. Everyone knows the vendetta is total bs for its points and nothing going forward is likely to be that bs anymore.

Also it is pointless to compare it to a vendetta unless you are considering taking a vendetta.

This. If you compare anything to a Vendetta it looks crap, whether it's a flier or a ground unit. "Man I'm not gonna take this Tri-LC pred, it's more expensive and less durable than a Vendetta."

Judge units on their own merits, not by comparing them to overpowered or undercosted units. The Stormraven is a decent flier, it's got a lot of weapons for blowing fliers out the sky, and PotMS means you can damage two fliers per turn (or more often, shoot hurricane bolters at an infantry unit).

The transport isn't great...but throwing a small bolter scout unit in there might not be a terrible idea. Cheap scoring unit that's relatively safe, to jump out onto an objective late game.

I understand your counterpoint, but its really hard and frankly a bit humiliating when everyone raves about the Stormraven, and when I run them, they just get fragged by Vendettas. There are now 4 vendetta spam lists at my local game store, and 5 or 6 more people that have them attached as allies. It only takes two of them to wreck a stormraven in a single turn. They are literally impossible to ignore.

It's also frustrating that the IG can actually take advantage of the transport capacity. The vanilla marines or BT might be willing to as well, but I feel that with BA, my model count is so low that I simply can't take the chance.

I've considered leaving the Stormraven out of my TAC lists, but I need the anti-flier against Orks and CSM. Yes, I actually see the bombas pretty frequently.


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 Messy0 wrote:
Can anyone confirm that the Storm Raven is a heavy support for GK now? Because that would just be terrible
Not only do we now loose the ability to take the combination of multiple Storm Ravens/DK and Psyfuldreads but we loose our best fast attack while Vanilla gain the ability to take 6 flyers?! WTF

Sorry, I have no sympathy at all for anything that happens to the GK. I thought it was garbage they got the Stormraven to begin with.

 Messy0 wrote:
Can anyone confirm that the Storm Raven is a heavy support for GK now? Because that would just be terrible
Not only do we now loose the ability to take the combination of multiple Storm Ravens/DK and Psyfuldreads but we loose our best fast attack while Vanilla gain the ability to take 6 flyers?! WTF

The FAQ covers this.

 kronk wrote:

 Messy0 wrote:
Can anyone confirm that the Storm Raven is a heavy support for GK now? Because that would just be terrible
Not only do we now loose the ability to take the combination of multiple Storm Ravens/DK and Psyfuldreads but we loose our best fast attack while Vanilla gain the ability to take 6 flyers?! WTF

The FAQ covers this.

I'm sorry I'm a little slow, but that means they haven't changed in codex GK? That they'd always be fast attack? Instead of being like the C:SM one and being in heavy support right?

Based on the FAQ it sure seems that way.

They stayed in their normal slot, no change on that front. Storm Ravens really didnt change other than losing deep strike in the rules department.

Chancetragedy wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Messy0 wrote:
Can anyone confirm that the Storm Raven is a heavy support for GK now? Because that would just be terrible
Not only do we now loose the ability to take the combination of multiple Storm Ravens/DK and Psyfuldreads but we loose our best fast attack while Vanilla gain the ability to take 6 flyers?! WTF

The FAQ covers this.

I'm sorry I'm a little slow, but that means they haven't changed in codex GK? That they'd always be fast attack? Instead of being like the C:SM one and being in heavy support right?

Correct. The Death from the Skies book (apparently) erroneously moved the GK Storm Raven to Heavy Support, like everyone else. This FAQ moves the SR back to Fast Attack, as it is in the GK codex.

Is this book actually out? I'm worried about a stormraven price increase.

Martel732 wrote:
Is this book actually out? I'm worried about a stormraven price increase.

it will never go above the price of two land raiders, dont worry

Not very comforting, lol.

THere are three threads in news and rumors covering this. All of the questions raised here have been answered there.

There has been a change to the Storm Raven price.

Thread concerning retailers reaction to the Flier book.

Thread containing discussion around the FAQ's that the flier book created.

Actual discussion about the release.