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BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

Chancetragedy wrote:
BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

The problem being that those are 3 elite choices and a fast attack. Baal's are neat, but not great. All the others are crowded in elites.
Blender dread going to AP3 nerfed it pretty hard. Dread Psyker is good, but why not just take psyker and a dread? You don't save many points in taking them combined.
Blood Angels lose some option codex marines have; I'd really like a thunderfire cannon, or better special characters, cheaper hammernaters...

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Chancetragedy wrote:
BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

The problem being that those are 3 elite choices and a fast attack. Baal's are neat, but not great. All the others are crowded in elites.
Blender dread going to AP3 nerfed it pretty hard. Dread Psyker is good, but why not just take psyker and a dread? You don't save many points in taking them combined.
Blood Angels lose some option codex marines have; I'd really like a thunderfire cannon, or better special characters, cheaper hammernaters...

-Matt

The next codex will go against all established fluff and we will get death company bikers and terminators.

Eldercaveman wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Chancetragedy wrote:
BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

The problem being that those are 3 elite choices and a fast attack. Baal's are neat, but not great. All the others are crowded in elites.
Blender dread going to AP3 nerfed it pretty hard. Dread Psyker is good, but why not just take psyker and a dread? You don't save many points in taking them combined.
Blood Angels lose some option codex marines have; I'd really like a thunderfire cannon, or better special characters, cheaper hammernaters...

-Matt

The next codex will go against all established fluff and we will get death company bikers and terminators.

and devastators

 Exergy wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Chancetragedy wrote:
BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

The problem being that those are 3 elite choices and a fast attack. Baal's are neat, but not great. All the others are crowded in elites.
Blender dread going to AP3 nerfed it pretty hard. Dread Psyker is good, but why not just take psyker and a dread? You don't save many points in taking them combined.
Blood Angels lose some option codex marines have; I'd really like a thunderfire cannon, or better special characters, cheaper hammernaters...

-Matt

The next codex will go against all established fluff and we will get death company bikers and terminators.

and devastators

With split fire, because they are too rage filled to shoot at the same target.

 Ross74H wrote:
About the only reason I can now see to run my force as BA anymore is because I want Baal Predators!

If I could find a way to get a vanilla force with Baals without allies I would do it.

Question now is - what are GW going to do (if anything!) to make BA more unique again? Another tank or something?

Personally I would have liked to see the Talon become available to BA, I dont use the Ravens at the moment, id rather have the option of the Talons for BA.

There's always the Forgeworld variety of Baals that Vanilla Marines can take.

Crazyterran wrote:

 Ross74H wrote:
About the only reason I can now see to run my force as BA anymore is because I want Baal Predators!

If I could find a way to get a vanilla force with Baals without allies I would do it.

Question now is - what are GW going to do (if anything!) to make BA more unique again? Another tank or something?

Personally I would have liked to see the Talon become available to BA, I dont use the Ravens at the moment, id rather have the option of the Talons for BA.

There's always the Forgeworld variety of Baals that Vanilla Marines can take.

Who? What? Where? When? And why?

All seriousness what are these, don't think I've ever seen them, do you know there actual name?

Also talking of forgeworld, people could have always took a storm eagle, before the storm raven.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Predator_Executioner.pdf

That''s a mad piece of gear, may be tempted.... damn you



Edit: Nope just looked at it, that's an ugly looking Predator, I'll stick with my Baals (beware auto type on that one)

HawaiiMatt wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Predator_Executioner.pdf

crazy good when you compare it to a plasma Forgefiend that costs almost twice as much, has lower front armor, less range, and worse BS. Of course its plasma is +1 str and you get the 5++ but it isnt worth the cost.

I'm a little angry with C:SM getting the stormraven. This is only because I have 3 talons and every time I bought 1, I wished I could use a raven instead. Now I get to spend more money, great.

This is apparently the dev's meeting

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Chancetragedy wrote:
BA have psyker dreadnoughts that can fly... They have potential for army wide apothecaries. They have Baal preds. They have blendernoughts. I'm pretty sure they are still unique after losing 1 fricken thing that wasn't even unique to them.

The problem being that those are 3 elite choices and a fast attack. Baal's are neat, but not great. All the others are crowded in elites.
Blender dread going to AP3 nerfed it pretty hard. Dread Psyker is good, but why not just take psyker and a dread? You don't save many points in taking them combined.
Blood Angels lose some option codex marines have; I'd really like a thunderfire cannon, or better special characters, cheaper hammernaters...

-Matt

so wait, first you complain that they took away what makes the ba codex unique, then you say that the ba codex should have what makes c:sm unique?

 Ross74H wrote:
About the only reason I can now see to run my force as BA anymore is because I want Baal Predators!

If I could find a way to get a vanilla force with Baals without allies I would do it.

Question now is - what are GW going to do (if anything!) to make BA more unique again? Another tank or something?

Personally I would have liked to see the Talon become available to BA, I dont use the Ravens at the moment, id rather have the option of the Talons for BA.

Thunderangel Cavalry, clearly.

 thehod wrote:
This is apparently the dev's meeting

I lol'd quite heartily at that one. Maybe it's GW's making up for everyone's complaints about SW being OP. What's the easiest way to nuke them? Give every army flyers and make sure SW don't get any anti air without getting extra stuff.

Oh so its Stormravens that make BA unique.. I always thought it was Red Thirst, Black Rage, Baal Preds, Death Company, Sanguinary Priests, Sanguinary Guard, Descent of Angels, Assault Marines as Troops, etc.

Seriously if you were just playing BA for the stormraven then you probably should have been playing GK.

 Commander_Nightflier wrote:

KaryudoDS wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
OK then, storm ravens for some, miniature American flags for others.

I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

Good boost to C:SM's though, I think they're really shaping up this edition.

I'm cool with them being ground bound in a fight but seriously... they couldn't even get Wolf Rocks with Sky Fire to throw at them or something? Just seems like if GW were to single them out at least give them a built in defense. Beyond limited fortification options that aren't very Space Wolfy.

quit whining, as a tau player, (no skyfire, no flyer outside of forgeworld) its pretty much the same thing, i have to rely on allies, or imperium fortications (also very un-tau-y) for good anti-flyer, broad sides work ok but i would rather kill tanks with them than have to shoot down 120 pt doom machines)

Convert your own fortifications. There are some great looking Tau fort pictures online. Use Burst Cannons on longer barrels for a Quad Gun, and a bunch of semicircles for the Aegis.

Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:


I lol'd quite heartily at that one. Maybe it's GW's making up for everyone's complaints about SW being OP. What's the easiest way to nuke them? Give every army flyers and make sure SW don't get any anti air without getting extra stuff.

Well, not that extra. Fortifications are in the BRB and a couple IG/SM(or DA just for fun!) are all perfectly useable in a game if with a slightly different style. Of course it does beg the question of how SW deal with those big things in the sky trying to nuke them because by their Codex alone they're out of luck without holding hands with someone. On the other hand I have a feeling BT got it to keep the remaining BT audience holding on with SM being the primary audiences go-to. May as well make it easy for them to get mommy to spend money I guess. Really sort of odd leaving SW and DA out of it though...

Roll BA into C:SM

Baal Predators are the bomb. Especially the damn flame storm (?) (S6 AP3) template one. I hates it, precious!

HawaiiMatt wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Predator_Executioner.pdf

If this were actually a fast vehicle with scout, you'd have a point.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Roll BA into C:SM

They might as well at this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as far as I'm concerned, the other chapters are welcome to have this thing. I hope they all make the mistake of actually using the transport capacity. They can call in my BA to squeegee up all their body parts off the battlefield after the thing get shot down with all their precious stuff in it. The Stormraven, to me, is just a flyer tax on my army and sucks big time compared to the vendetta.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Seriously if you were just playing BA for the stormraven then you probably should have been playing GK."

Nah, GKs are for people that like to win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and poor SW, how will they get along without the stormraven? They'll just have to make due with that allied vendetta squadron. So they'll have some IG guys shoot down fliers before they whip everyone's asses in HTH after being assaulted.

Martel732 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and poor SW, how will they get along without the stormraven? They'll just have to make due with that allied vendetta squadron. So they'll have some IG guys shoot down fliers before they whip everyone's asses in HTH after being assaulted.

Just like literally every other army bar Nids get to do too. The point SW players are making is that to get that Vendetta, they need to go out and buy a bunch of other stuff just to get a flyer as opposed to everyone else just going out and buying the flyer for their army and not dealing with the allied detachment taking points away from their main army.

If I were really competitive, I'd be doing that with the BA already. The Vendetta is that much better than the Stormraven.

Martel732 wrote:
If I were really competitive, I'd be doing that with the BA already. The Vendetta is that much better than the Stormraven.

Honestly, the Stormraven's better than the Vendetta (twin-linked Multi-melta + Bloodstrikes + turret AC/PC/LC that can fire at 2 different targets, are useful vs both infantry and vehicles and with a higher BS beats 3 TLLC imho), the Vendetta is only better in that it is a far cheaper investment. However, buying a Stormraven is cheaper than buying CCS + Veteran Squad + Vendetta, especially if you want the additional units to contribute. That said, they're not a bad investment, but the point is that you're going to be spending ~400+pts on allies in order to get that flyer.

For the points, the Vendetta makes the Stormraven look stupid as hell. That''s what matters. I never get stormraven without paying for it.

Plus, I'd have to mathhammer it, but for what I want fliers for (to shoot other fliers) 3 48" TL BS 3 skyfire lascannons are pretty hard to beat. That stacks up well against a TL MM, TL lascannon, and some one-off STR 8 missiles. After the Stormraven has expended its missiles, it's firepower is pretty pedestrian, and horrible for the points.

I'm pretty sure those IG squds can pack in quite a few weapons, so it's not like they are a real burden on the list. And SW infantry are already crazy efficient. How many tac marines does it take to beat up a squad of grey hunters? I don't even want to know.

...enough to kill a wolf lord, right Andilus? lol, good times

I think you're forgetting how dangerous the AP1 weapons are on the stormraven and not giving them enough credit. Vendettas are cheese mostly in how cheap they are, as was pointed out, as well as in a small part their high output for firepower, but the stormraven has quite a few nasty tricks up its sleeve and more importantly, it doesn't need to protect the rear nearly as much.

 Exergy wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Predator_Executioner.pdf

crazy good when you compare it to a plasma Forgefiend that costs almost twice as much, has lower front armor, less range, and worse BS. Of course its plasma is +1 str and you get the 5++ but it isnt worth the cost.

That heavy conversion beamer is amazing. S10 AP1, 5" blast. That's gotta chafe. 140 pts seems good for that price - it's fire power is a bit like 2 zoanthropes but with the range. 200 pts for the lascannons as well makes it pricey, but something to think about.

Agree the model looks a bit strange, but the MKIVC has a real cool turret. Scratch build a new weapon for the front and there you go.

Can anyone confirm that the Storm Raven is a heavy support for GK now? Because that would just be terrible
Not only do we now loose the ability to take the combination of multiple Storm Ravens/DK and Psyfuldreads but we loose our best fast attack while Vanilla gain the ability to take 6 flyers?! WTF

Martel732 wrote:
For the points, the Vendetta makes the Stormraven look stupid as hell. That''s what matters. I never get stormraven without paying for it.

You have a bad case of 'grass is greener' man. I strongly suggest running your BA as either counts-as for C:SM or SW. One of the perks of playing marines is that you can swap between the main marine codex'es with just a little work. Just keep your stuff WYSIWYG and noone will give you problems in person.

Martel732 wrote:
For the points, the Vendetta makes the Stormraven look stupid as hell. That''s what matters. I never get stormraven without paying for it.

Plus, I'd have to mathhammer it, but for what I want fliers for (to shoot other fliers) 3 48" TL BS 3 skyfire lascannons are pretty hard to beat. That stacks up well against a TL MM, TL lascannon, and some one-off STR 8 missiles. After the Stormraven has expended its missiles, it's firepower is pretty pedestrian, and horrible for the points.

So is Death from the Skies official 40k rules cover to cover? I know some people will choose not to use some rules for whatever butthurt reasons, but in my area we play up to date offical rules. Are the dog fight rules no longer optional?