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Mythantor wrote:
Except if they manage to table you turn 1

Thats why you start with 20 scouts. Just have them go to ground when shot at. That's very hard to have them dislodged at range before turn 2.

To really secure your spot, add a bastion and stick some guys inside. AV 14 is extremely hard to crack at range, and it provides a platform for the comm-relay.

So 1245 for ADL and flyers. At 2k I can take 3 tacticals with rhinos and ML'S or MM and flamers and rhinos for like 615 so we have 1860 leaving 140 for an HQ. probably a Libby with SS/force axe. That's 3 rhinos and 31 models starting on the board with more than 50% chance of night fighting. Probably hiding in cover, that'll be stupid hard to table turn 1.

And you can even combat squad the marines, so you can put 3 squads in storm ravens so you can drop them on objectives late game. That way your not just relying upon wiping your opponent.

Ill take that over a french-flying-bakery list any day of the week.

That's what I'm saying!! Now with that said there is no way in hell I'm spending 400$+ USD for 3 storm ravens and 3 talons(the talons are still one of the ugliest models IMO) to run that list. But that is still scary as hell. I intend on buying a raven and seeing how I like it and really how the meta will shift with this release. Then if need be ill buy another raven or try and figure out a way to make the talon look good(buy a nephillim maybe).

Hahaha something I just thought about can the talons escort the ravens getting 2 flyers per role?

I like the idea of clumping your reserves.

Still, an comm-relay is the real key. Changing the chance of successful reserves from 2/3 to 8/9 is huge.
I also really like the bastion. One unit inside a bastion is extremely hard to dislodge. You need to land a squad of flamers to burn them out -- thats about the only thing that can do it.
If you have another squad on top, then that does not even work to get tabled.

The other thing is the bastion replaces the cost of 1-2 rhinos, so its extremely cheap. In this list you would not need an ADL. It would hamper your army more than help it.

Maybe Hydra Flak Tanks will become usefull.. Nice.

OK then, storm ravens for some, miniature American flags for others.

I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

Good boost to C:SM's though, I think they're really shaping up this edition.

 More Dakka wrote:


I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

When has fluff gotten in the way of the SW codex?

Touche!

 Griddlelol wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:


I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

When has fluff gotten in the way of the SW codex?

When their terminators don't have the option to teleport in, and need to be put in a drop-pod if they want to deep-strike.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I can see people bringing this..

3 stormtalons w/TL ACs and Skyhammer MLs
3 stormravens w/TL MM, TL AC, Hurricane bolters

This will set your army back 1125 points. It gives you strong air superiority, with the following firepower
24 STR 6 AP 4 rending AC shots
3 STR 8 AP 1 melta shots
9 STR 7 AP 4 shots
36 bolter shots
every round.....
Oh, and 12 STR 8 AP 1 missiles
And you can transport 3 dreads and 3 squads.

I see this being a hard counter to hell drake and daemon lists

Yeah its all fun and games until you play that one guy with the 9 vendettas and all your flyers come in first...

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:


I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

When has fluff gotten in the way of the SW codex?

When their terminators don't have the option to teleport in, and need to be put in a drop-pod if they want to deep-strike.

Yet, they have the strongest psykers in the Imperium (even though they distrust and hate psykers), and their battle doctrine is supposed to be close-combat oriented, but their dedicated assault unit is considered one of the worst and their heavy weapon squads (definately not close combat oriented) are considered the best.

 Flinty wrote:
I also note that the stormtalon just picked up Hover as well. Will this make much diference, considering they already had hover strike?

I'm willing to bet they dropped Hover Strike for Hover Mode and Strafing Run.

EDIT: Dropping 5 40pt Assault Terminators and either a Chaplain/Libriarian/Lysander/Calgar out of a Stormraven with a Contemptor/Ironclad hanging off the ass seems like a good time.

 More Dakka wrote:
OK then, storm ravens for some, miniature American flags for others.

I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

Good boost to C:SM's though, I think they're really shaping up this edition.

I'm cool with them being ground bound in a fight but seriously... they couldn't even get Wolf Rocks with Sky Fire to throw at them or something? Just seems like if GW were to single them out at least give them a built in defense. Beyond limited fortification options that aren't very Space Wolfy.

What missiles are the vannila and Templars getting with their ravens.

Well, they have access to prescience and crazy amounts of S8 with split firing Longfangs. Plus, with the exception of Cron Air and IG Air Cav flyers haven't really proven to be completely game changing (maybe 3x Helldrakes fall into this category too, haven't run up against them more than once now). Scoring objectives is way more crucial in my experience.

 More Dakka wrote:
Well, they have access to prescience and crazy amounts of S8 with split firing Longfangs. Plus, with the exception of Cron Air and IG Air Cav flyers haven't really proven to be completely game changing (maybe 3x Helldrakes fall into this category too, haven't run up against them more than once now). Scoring objectives is way more crucial in my experience.

3 drakes really isn't that great I played them at 1k, and destroyed them both before they did any real damage.

I wonder if gk stormraven shifted to heavy support. IT shows so in the gw page which i hope is a mistake.

 Warp Angels wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
Yah, everyone gets something that is supposed to be unique to BA and GK while BA and GK get diddly in return.

So exciting.

I know your pain man, dont know why all chapters dont get talons if the vanillas get them... maybe not GK coz they're rather specialised and dont have many things other marine dexs have.
But hey, i guess we have to roll with it

Considering that everyone got BT's Crusader, everyone got DA's rifledreads (mortis dreads), and FoC change (Yes this WAS specific to just chaos and DA)

I hope not, but if they do, what happens then? I dont plan on buying this so I can just use it as Fast, but someone who buys this makes there ones heavy support?

Unless I am mistaken, this is not an official expansion to the rules that everyone needs a copy of is it?

I will always play mine as fast until the next codex is released.

Anyone seen the rules yet? No Gw by me

Flyers? We don't need no stinking flyers!

How I wish this whole Stormraven debacle would turn out:

GW: Stormravens for all

Us: Boo!

GW: Very well, Stormravens for none!

Us: Boo!

GW: Hmm, Stormravens for some, free flak missile upgrades for others!

Us: Yay!

KaryudoDS wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
OK then, storm ravens for some, miniature American flags for others.

I'm glad SW don't get the raven, it fits their fluff and as a player who will eventually be putting together a SW army (seriously, it's all on sprues in a box) I appreciate that they don't have the "crutch" of the flier to consider.

Good boost to C:SM's though, I think they're really shaping up this edition.

I'm cool with them being ground bound in a fight but seriously... they couldn't even get Wolf Rocks with Sky Fire to throw at them or something? Just seems like if GW were to single them out at least give them a built in defense. Beyond limited fortification options that aren't very Space Wolfy.

quit whining, as a tau player, (no skyfire, no flyer outside of forgeworld) its pretty much the same thing, i have to rely on allies, or imperium fortications (also very un-tau-y) for good anti-flyer, broad sides work ok but i would rather kill tanks with them than have to shoot down 120 pt doom machines)

Eldercaveman wrote:
What missiles are the vannila and Templars getting with their ravens.

This.

What missiles are they getting? Bloodstrike missiles? Anyone care to share please.

Vanillastrike and Blackstrike missiles, obviously or maybe Ultrastrike?

Vanillastrike sounds a bit like a ben and jerrys flavour though...

The GW site description refers to a "Stormstrike" Missle now on the Stormraven along with Mindstrike and Bloodstrike.

Yay, GW just killed my last reason to play blood angels. I'm so happy I haven't started painting them yet.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Yay, GW just killed my last reason to play blood angels. I'm so happy I haven't started painting them yet.

-Matt

BA is a terribly flawed codex anyways. Probably just ahead of BT as far as marine codices go. Too bad because they have some of the best fluff and models out there for Marines.

About the only reason I can now see to run my force as BA anymore is because I want Baal Predators!

If I could find a way to get a vanilla force with Baals without allies I would do it.

Question now is - what are GW going to do (if anything!) to make BA more unique again? Another tank or something?

Personally I would have liked to see the Talon become available to BA, I dont use the Ravens at the moment, id rather have the option of the Talons for BA.