GW just released a new expansion today. check GW for more details, but in short it involves ammasing an airforce from your army and fighting for ariel domination. Don't fear SM players - you can now field the stormraven too.
thenoobbomb wrote: Horrible.
What's next? Death Company for the Ultramarines? And Sanguinary Guard for all chapters?
love your enthusiasm for the cheesy future
I do however agree with you that the stormraven will cheeze this out. It should be marked up in points or diluted a bit. Orks also have an unfair advantage with the dakkajet too. Not thatI'm complaining...
Lets hope GW have thought this one through. If they have, then it will be an amazing expansion.
I refuse to buy this product from GW. I think its a load of crap, and the only thing it appears to have truly done is give C:SM and BT 2 fliers. That's it. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong on that account, but every single other flyer has rules in other codex's. Why should I spend 30+ bucks on this item? Maybe, just maybe, if I were to be able to look at a copy at my LGS and it had some good stuff in it, I'd consider it. Since its direct from GW only, looks like nobody will get to see it unless they pay for it. Maybe it'll have some new rules in it, but who gives a crap? Are you going to tell me I need to have this book to ever use a flyer(even if its in my dex) in my 40K games? I want to know what this book has to offer, and as the consumer, what advantages are there to buying it? So far I see none.
Then they create these new "releases" on their website and sell me a bunch of crap at no discount. Again, why? Oh how convenient, I only have to click a button once...to save zero money. Screw that, I'll keep ordering from other retailers.
I'm not one to complain about GW(as there seem to be hundreds of threads dedicated to that alone), but they are certainly shooting themselves in the foot with this one. I hope the community sees this is a BS stunt to make extra money that doesn't help them as a player, and boycotts this product by not purchasing it.
I'm interested in what is in there, but upset that a full rule book that came out less than a year ago now requires a $33 expansion instead of providing an FAQ through the website. Not cool GW. We've all purchased the BRB, DV or at least a second hand mini rule book, plus the fliers and now there is another book to buy, only available through the company website. Also, I that liked BA and Grey Knights having the Stormraven market cornered, if only because I play BA.
I have to agree. The only reason I've ever bought any of the supplements to the main game (Cities of Death, Planetstrike, Apocalypse) was because my local game shop was able to sell it to me. I can't even go into the local Games-Workshop and buy this off the shelf.
I wonder if they are going to give the storm talon to the other chapters.
I also wonder if they are going to share the same slot, or can you bring 3 storm talons and 3 storm ravens.
I refuse to buy this product from GW. I think its a load of crap, and the only thing it appears to have truly done is give C:SM and BT 2 fliers. That's it. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong on that account, but every single other flyer has rules in other codex's. Why should I spend 30+ bucks on this item? Maybe, just maybe, if I were to be able to look at a copy at my LGS and it had some good stuff in it, I'd consider it. Since its direct from GW only, looks like nobody will get to see it unless they pay for it. Maybe it'll have some new rules in it, but who gives a crap? Are you going to tell me I need to have this book to ever use a flyer(even if its in my dex) in my 40K games? I want to know what this book has to offer, and as the consumer, what advantages are there to buying it? So far I see none.
Then they create these new "releases" on their website and sell me a bunch of crap at no discount. Again, why? Oh how convenient, I only have to click a button once...to save zero money. Screw that, I'll keep ordering from other retailers.
I'm not one to complain about GW(as there seem to be hundreds of threads dedicated to that alone), but they are certainly shooting themselves in the foot with this one. I hope the community sees this is a BS stunt to make extra money that doesn't help them as a player, and boycotts this product by not purchasing it.
Ditto. It's horrible. We already have Planetstrike, Cities of Death, Battle Missions, Apocalypse and now this crap for expansions. Instead of filling pages with 'pretty' pictures and useless banter about how some guy at GW made a 'pretty' army they should try and bundle all of these into one book, save everyone the pain.
The main thing I see is the scenarios and special rules, which they could put in a WD, and the 'specialist' Dogfighting rules, which is so much . I mean, what's next are we going to have a completely revamped "Knife to the Chest" where you basically fight out one combat between three guys and you get 'special' rules in close combat. Or maybe its "Tread Combat" where you get special rules for tank to tank shooting. Oh my gods. I think I'll finish my current project and then quit buying stuff except my codex and the BRB.
personally i think the storm talon makes a better unit for all the Sm chapeters than the raven, well because its in C:SM already and the raven is in over dex's that dont get the baby flyer
also isnt the 'talon a FA slot and the raven HS?
so taht tehre is a chance of 3 of each hitting the board
washout77 wrote: Did they ever actually say that this book is the only way to get the rules for the fliers now?
If so, that's BS.
Basically they did in the new FAQ's.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From the Ork FAQ "White Dwarf June 2012 (WD390)
Updated rules for the Ork Dakkajet, Burna-bommer and Blitza- bommer can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium."
washout77 wrote: Did they ever actually say that this book is the only way to get the rules for the fliers now?
If so, that's BS.
Basically they did in the new FAQ's.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From the Ork FAQ "White Dwarf June 2012 (WD390)
Updated rules for the Ork Dakkajet, Burna-bommer and Blitza- bommer can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium."
Ya know every once in a while I think "why did I quit GW again?", and then stuff like this happens and it helps me remember why I got out of dodge early and fled to historicals hahaha
Maybe if I win the lottery or something, I'll try picking my IG back up again
So does this mean I can no longer use the rules for my doom scythe from Codex Necrons? Do I have to buy this book to see if the rules or points values have changed? In the necron faq it just says that the fliers lose deep strike. Does anyone actually have this book yet?
washout77 wrote: Did they ever actually say that this book is the only way to get the rules for the fliers now?
The FAQs say to use the new book for the storm talon and Ork flyers instead of the WD. Which is basically saying you have to buy your FAQ now.
Personally I hate this book. Because this and CoF came out only months apart and still less than a year from the release of the BRB. Why do I need an expansion on the basic game when I'm still waiting for most armies to get up to date?
And personally I can't wait to see C:SM start to absorb non-astartes units. Codex Space marine Infantry platoons lead by Ultramarine commisars. Ultramarine Harlequins. Ultramarine Crisis suits and Broadsides.
Complete and utter waste of time and money which should have been a free pdf instead of an expensive piece of manure.
I wouldn't be suprised if at least some Ork and Spacemarine players find erm, "alternative" ways to get the rules for their flyers or altogether alternative gamesystems.
Its not really an expansion, its flyer rules from the 6ed book, optional flyer rules from that limited ed. campaign that came out around christmas, plus updated stats for already released flyers...
It's not an expansion. And I while I would certainly like it to be cheaper and/or a free download; I can't understand the anger here. People complained that new comers to the hobby are hamstrung because to get rules for some of their flyers they had to track down an old White Dwarf that was hard to get. Now GW puts the rules for everything out in one book and people complain they have to buy that book. Yes, buying a WD was cheaper than this book but not by much and this has more than just three flyers rules in it. And it's not limited edition. And they updated the FAQ's and Errata for those people with already existing flyer entries in their codex. Unless I'm missing something this is just an optional purchase for those people who want the WD rules for their flyers and missed it the first time 'round.
chaos0xomega wrote: Its not really an expansion, its flyer rules from the 6ed book, optional flyer rules from that limited ed. campaign that came out around christmas, plus updated stats for already released flyers...
I call it an expansion because it states in the FAQ that you need to use the Death from the Skies book to use the Storm Talon and Dakka Jet.
Here's a break down.
Flyer rules- Had it from the BRB campaign/optional flyer rules- Nobody wanted it and nobody purchased it. Changing the cover won't change that.
Stats for already released flyers and whatever changes- Could/should have been covered in an FAQ/Errata.
Again, it just seems like they want people to pay them large amounts of money for a glorified FAQ. The old content was already covered in the BRB or something that nobody wanted after they were able to GLOSS OVER IT IN THE STORE. Now they're making you purchase a book with no user review or detailed summary other than their generic description of "Super fun time happy book give you long fun time super deal, you buy now"
What really bothers me is they apparently invalidated the WD books from the way I read it. So instead of just issuing another WD, they make us buy this crap.
Never buying it.
Bad enough i had to buy an expensive as hell book that really only justifies the cost by making it hardback (for no reason and is more annoying than good cuz hardbacks arent as easy to quickflip through) and having MORE THAN HALF OF IT be complete fluff and high-quality images that i dont give a damn about.
And with the new DA codex, theyre showing theyre doing the same trend with codexes to jack the price up. Not gonna be surprised when/if orks get a new codex i'll be chucking out another 60+ dollars for it, not to mention new units.
GW is definately alienating new players. Its already expensive to get the army much less the rule books to even ATTEMPT to play. You cant justify how an army plays till 1k-2k pt games, and in some cases not even till 1.5k-2k. Thats expensive to get that many points and be viable.
I think crying that how losing the Stormraven as a BT/BA only vehicle irresponsibly dilutes those Chapters is a bit too much of a reaction. I mean, c'mon.
I do think the supplement is a dumb way of charging for a FAQ/Errata document. At least the old Chapter Approved books were full of fun stuff reprinted from White Dwarf that was intended for spicing up "for fun" games, like Feral Orcs,, Cursed Founding Chapters, or the extra Psychic power tables.
They weren't intended to be required rules material to play the game. The Errata they contained for the various Codex books were later put right into those books' reprints anyway.
Not cool GW. We've all purchased the BRB, DV or at least a second hand mini rule book, plus the fliers and now there is another book to buy, only available through the company website
A very good point. But I haven't even bought the 6th edition rulebook yet because of the EXTREME cost of the rulebook in Australia, death from the skies in just exacerbating the problem. Anyway without turning this into a discussion about GW pricing, I won't be buying the book.
Pox Apostle wrote: People complained that new comers to the hobby are hamstrung because to get rules for some of their flyers they had to track down an old White Dwarf that was hard to get. Now GW puts the rules for everything out in one book and people complain they have to buy that book.
People wanted an easily available PDF so people can use the WD flyer rules, an errata to bring flyers to balance for 6th, and a flyer wave so that the other armies can field AA. Instead people are forced to buy an expensive book at more than triple the cost of a WD for the exact same content, adding in that C:SM get their second flyer release while SW, SoB, Tau, and Eldar are left in the dust.
Yes, buying a WD was cheaper than this book but not by much and this has more than just three flyers rules in it. And it's not limited edition. And they updated the FAQ's and Errata for those people with already existing flyer entries in their codex. Unless I'm missing something this is just an optional purchase for those people who want the WD rules for their flyers and missed it the first time 'round.
Triple the cost of the original WD, limited because it's only available through the site and in only one language, and the FAQs say to refer to the Death from the Skies book.
Pox Apostle wrote: People complained that new comers to the hobby are hamstrung because to get rules for some of their flyers they had to track down an old White Dwarf that was hard to get. Now GW puts the rules for everything out in one book and people complain they have to buy that book.
People wanted an easily available PDF so people can use the WD flyer rules, an errata to bring flyers to balance for 6th, and a flyer wave so that the other armies can field AA. Instead people are forced to buy an expensive book at more than triple the cost of a WD for the exact same content, adding in that C:SM get their second flyer release while SW, SoB, Tau, and Eldar are left in the dust.
Yes, buying a WD was cheaper than this book but not by much and this has more than just three flyers rules in it. And it's not limited edition. And they updated the FAQ's and Errata for those people with already existing flyer entries in their codex. Unless I'm missing something this is just an optional purchase for those people who want the WD rules for their flyers and missed it the first time 'round.
Triple the cost of the original WD, limited because it's only available through the site and in only one language, and the FAQs say to refer to the Death from the Skies book.
Let's be honest, SoB, Tau and Eldar are left in the dust in a lot of other ways as well. Not saying you're not right, just that I'd rather new codex's instead of some quickly tossed together flyer rules at this point. And you're right about the FAQ saying to refer to the compendium, which I didn't see before and I have to say is a gakky move. It should not be required to play the game. However, at this point I've given up on GW making decisions that make sense. I'm happy the rules are available, even if slightly more expensive than I would have liked. I dislike that people are required to buy this book in addition to all else just to play their armies. It should not be that way.
I play Orks and I honestly will not be getting this..30 bucks for 3 pages of info I already have? Why bother. Even if they did change something about the ork flyers(which from what I gather they havent) whats the point?
This is the worst money grab product from GW ever! It is forcing some armys (SM/orks) to buy 2 books to play their army in a base 6th edition setting.
Let's rewind back to previous GW supplment releases; Battle Missions is solely used as new maps types. There are no new rules to 5th ed so you can play either with or without it.
Apoc has new specific rules for some units (baneblade/stompa for IG/Orks). But becuase it is a supplment game, you don't need to buy it to play 5th ed. You do need to buy it if you want to play an Apoc game, in which case all Apoc players will need to buy or share the book.
This Death from the Skies book however breaks the trend. You need to buy this book for a Normal game of 6th ed. its starting to force players to buy additional rules in addition to the models piecemeal.
GW should release rules to the general public for new products that can't make it to the print run, such as the case for SM and Ork flyers. becuase all GW players should be able with play their armys with just the rulebook and codex.
If GW can get away this time with the flyers book it is a loss for all GW players. Think of what they can do in the future! That new Wall of Martyrs we got during Christmas? How would you like to purchase a new $40CAD supplement to tell you the new rules for it? What? You think its a ripoff and not worth it? Well... one of the rules is that the bunker is AV15 all around and re-rolls to damage chart (fake rules for emphsis), I'm sure your friend/oppoinent is buying the book, would you like to play at an disadvantage?...
Personally all I care about for myself is the official access to ST&SR for BT, and SR for C:SM. I don't need the book itself, so no will be spent on it. Of course those that play at GW stores and strict tournaments that require you to have all the books relevant to your army/units are not as fortunate.
I also play orks and wont be buying. All I really need is the ork stats and rules. Everything else is usless in my area. 30 dallors for a few rules isnt worth it. I already payed 80 for the rulebook. If your gunna make twikes they should be free faqs otherwise save it for the next edition.
I'm a parent which means I've developed infinite pacience. I can wait for the next ork codex. My only real concern is since they went to all the trouble to do this that they wont put the flyer information in the next dex and force us to buy the compendium with it.
I personally will not be buying it. Fliers are almost non-existent in my gaming club and I have only played one game ever which included one. The changes will (should) be in the 6th edition codices anyway when they come out so this is just a money grabbing move by GW. I'm not going to waste my money.
I must admit im kinda miffed by this. I play a Blood Angels Success or Chapter (the Blood Paladins) and while I only started playing them today I was thinking about adding a couple of storm ravens to my list eventually along with some assault termies death company a furioso dread couple of baal preds death company dread. HOWEVER now the fact that Codex Space Marines and Black Templars can take both the storm talon and storm ravens means im going to be in for a nightmare. Btw can anyone who can access the FAQ tell me if I need to purchase this book to use a Storm Raven in my Blood Paladins army?
I'm not sure why people are complaining, all the codex have stolen something, like everyone did steal twin linked AC dread from the Mortis dread (originally DA), the land raider crusader (BT), and the ability to swap FoC (DA)
I can see why they're reprinting stuff from WD (even if it is dickish to charge people for it), but why are they reprinting rules for Vendettas/Valkries? Unless they're changing the rules or statlines for them, in which case you have two contradictory rules versions.
I think the book is silly. But opening up the stormraven is good, I think it should be a staple choice in any marine codex, including CSM, like the rhino and land raider.
Yeah, CSM got their own flyer, but so did space marines allready. More options, is never a bad thing in my mind.
I couldn't care less one way or another on the StormRaven. What gets me is that they could have released a new Tau Flier, a new Eldar Flier, given SW and BT each a unique flier (don't even need a kit for these, just rules) and maybe a named Ork pilot. Instead it's just an FAQ. No thanks.
All I can see here is GW noticing that people are getting hacked off with them, and not buying as much, but not realising why they are annoying pepole, and then doing completely the wrong thing about it.
This probably is a desperate money grab, and I am taking this as a sign that GW are now straining themselves to keep up the production on all their "improvements" while new customers are getting priced out of the system, and old players are realizing what GW is trying to do.
So long as people can make sure GW's sales go down for the next few months, we might just see a change in GW's attitude.
If not, then GW's gonna die.
As a new player I am still getting the feel for how GW works. This is unsettling but I am not too upset yet. I will be watching closely to see where the flier meta goes before committing. If anyone has buddies you can always pitch in money to buy a "community" copy to see the rules, unfortunately I have no other players I could pitch in with myself.
Just had a lookie around the site, and there are box sets of multiple flyers at no cost reduction.
Added to that, the site describes the majority of the £20GBP rulebook as being pretty pictures and "detailed accounts" of battles (which are things I never use because I hate overwriting published fluff by not having the battle turn out the way it is reported).
I'm looking forward to the new "Space's Aces" supplement where your aerial squadron leader cinematically challenges another fighter in one-on-one dogfight action before continuing his strafing run!
amanita wrote: I'm looking forward to the new "Space's Aces" supplement where your aerial squadron leader cinematically challenges another fighter in one-on-one dogfight action before continuing his strafing run!
Or not.
I get the feeling that this may actually be GW's thinking.
"How do we get our customers back? MOAR CONTENT!"
6th ed needs more simplified and streamlined gameplay for larger games, not a plethora of additional mini-games...
As a Templar, i'm interested in seeing what this brings me Considering i'm still a 4th ed codex. And while I understand some concerns about things like the Storm Raven.. I came into the Game as a Templar player and my codex is all about landing troopers or quick fly by assault drops..i have nothing but pods and this is upset..so..Bring on the Ravens and Talons, The Templars are back in town!!
What I want to know is when GW will published the SM's codex for the 6th ed, does it will give the rules of the Storme raven ant talon in the new codex.... if yes, I can wait... if not, I will play tyranid and csm.
I'm hoping that people don't get the book and then I can claim that GK got storm talons and use them (I actually like the storm talon model... as I liked the storm raven from before too >_> I already own them from back near release but never bought the talon cause my codex can't use it, I may get some if GK get to use them sometime in the future)
OK lets be honest here. We are not FORCED to buy anything. IMO dont buy it. I sure as heck wont. I didn't buy the WD either. No ones really asked to see my copy of the rules. They pretty much know what my dakkajet does. I'm talking Tourney play as well. But my FLGS keeps stuff like that in case someone brings up the question.
If all it has are flyer rules than I feel there is no need to buy what I already have access to. Owning my codex and having a copy of the FAQ is really what i need to bring in case.
here is a thought GW why not update all of the Codexs? Hell i can't tell you the last time the SoB got a codex. I think a lot of people would prefer to buy a new complete codex then just another 3 or 4 page book.
Personally i would like the rules but i really just can't justify the cost especaiily since i don't play that often and my SM codex is getting very thick with amendments.
With the limited info we all know its going to have this shouldnt have been a book at all, let alone a 33dollar one that once again is probably 90% fluff and fancy pictures that noone cares about.
Want to play SM/Orks? Cool, after you chucked out oodles of money for the models and the rule book, buy this too!
EDIT: Yea, people would rather buy a new codex. GW isnt people though, theyre money-hungry donkey-caves. Why would they release a new codex for 30-40 bucks with several small tweaks, making new players only needing 1 book, when they could keep the current 30-40dollar codex and release another book the same cost so new players gotta pay that price TWICE!
GW seriously needs to stop with this greedy bit. Their game is already stupid popular and makes a ton of money. Its no where near dead, so why are they trying to milk it? You stretch every possibility to make money when a product is showing signs of fading off - its only fading off because of GW's bullcrap.
Lets see, space marines get another unit from another codex for no reason? check
Black Templars get an update of some sort? Okay I can live with that
A bunch of 5e fliers lost deep strike and/or other USR's? Uhh.. unless the point costs changed, you put out an FAQ for them anyway
Tyranids still don't have a model/useful rules for the harpy? Lets see... when did C:T come out? uuhh... was it jJan 2010?
Given this information I will never be getting one because the three times I've direct ordered something it took like 4 months to get to me, and all that's on my area is a single FLGS whom I ordered through to avoid shipping.
Thanks GW... oh wait I mean
Oh, and instead of releasing the likely already completed harpy model and/or models for other armies who have holes in their codex... GW releases flier bundels!!! Complete with a 0% discount!!
This will be just as if not more disappointing than the 'Crusade of Fire' supplement. (I stupidly bought it.)
'Fool me once shame on you GW, fool me twice shame on me and my entire family.'
We have a club and I bought the CoF campaign book. We have been running the campaign since the start of January. We come to the end of phase 1 on the 1st march.
It is what you make it. I put a lot in to it, created a players booklet, special missions, reinforcement rules and am running a blog for challenges and results etc. we as a club enjoy it but not because GW have created a working campaign. Because I have toiled to finish what they should have done.
It wasn't a stupid buy, if you want pm me and I'll link you my resources, it might help. Check the blog too.
As for the fliers book, I want a crimson fist raven! If the only way to do this is to buy the book, then I guess I will have to. Unless I find that some copyright thief has uploaded a scanned one that is.
Plus is there really a need to deep strike when you can go 36" and still shoot? Hard to find a target that 36" of movement doesn't get you into weapons range of. Except maybe in massive Apoc games.
There was no information of use for any of my armies in the fliers expansion. I also have no desire to play 40K scale dogfights. If I want an air to air styled game, I'll play Star Wars (I know they use space ships, but I hope you get my point).
FAQs updated the fliers, so I've got all the information I need to play against them.
Its a shame that, as noted elsewhere the book was not more correctly titled
"F U non marine players". but then maybe that should be the title of 5th Ed 40k?
Even the Orks get screwed as they can't use the previously published rules as per the FAQ, so rather than trying to track down OOP White Dwarfs now need to buy a £20 book.....awesome.
I do have several Marine armies but also like to play other armies
Another golden opportuity missed - it could have been a great book full of lfyers for all armies and updating any issues - but apparently its not.
Glad they expanded a few of the marine flyers in to other forces (and provided a non-electronic, non-OOPWD method of getting flyer rules), disappointed that they decided not to actually balance any of them for the new edition. That was a big, missed opportunity for this thing. I doubt I'll be grabbing it.
Pox Apostle wrote: It's not an expansion. And I while I would certainly like it to be cheaper and/or a free download; I can't understand the anger here. People complained that new comers to the hobby are hamstrung because to get rules for some of their flyers they had to track down an old White Dwarf that was hard to get. Now GW puts the rules for everything out in one book and people complain they have to buy that book. Yes, buying a WD was cheaper than this book but not by much and this has more than just three flyers rules in it. And it's not limited edition. And they updated the FAQ's and Errata for those people with already existing flyer entries in their codex. Unless I'm missing something this is just an optional purchase for those people who want the WD rules for their flyers and missed it the first time 'round.
The problem is that they're selling, at an extremely high price, what every other company in the industry would put out for free, especially if they want people to buy the models. On top of that, they make it direct order only, cutting local retail out of the value chain, depriving what is many people's primary play areas of sales to keep the place going. And on top of that, most retailers found out about this release from customers, GW told them nothing, and it's a fairly critical release for product they sell.
It's optionality is primarily driven by three factors, if you either A: already had the flyer rules from WD, B: don't care about them and don't feel the need to know their rules in case you end up playing against them, or C: you don't mind pirating. If any of these aren't true, it's sort of a critical purchase for a 40k player in 6th edition. If they are true, which admittedly will be for many players (especially option C), then yes, it's not such a big thing, but for many it is, and it's a disastrous thing for retail relationships.
tvih wrote: Did anyone ever deep strike flyers anyway? Never seen anyone do it, myself.
I did it a lot, actually. It was a way of getting good positioning that is otherwise not possible when you have to fly straight up the table, especially in Hammer and Anvil deployment. Also, in the GK book, being able to pinpoint drop with servo skulls in the mix was a pretty solid way of getting a power CC unit in close, as long as you lived with Hover Mode the next turn. It wasn't a major loss, but its still one less tool in the toolbox. I think the main reason they dumped it was to avoid confusion over the mandatory 18" move or crash vs the no move if you DS thing, which there was some debate over at first. Also, they want people flying over enemy armies in one predictable direction, hence the removal of Scout from the IG flyiers as well.
Holey Cow someone who isn't going to dog on GW be Warned: I like the concept and would prefer GW do things like this "compendium" to update the rule book as opposed to releasing a new one every 4 years. However I don't like the limited release frame but at 33$ I will be buying this.
Guys WHO CARES , vanilla SM and BT get ravens , good for them . If they field it it just means 200 something less points from something else and BT players needed something ANYTHING as they are still running a 4th edition codex .
The new rules are FAQed so you don't even need the book if you don't want it.
mk2 wrote: Guys WHO CARES , vanilla SM and BT get ravens , good for them . If they field it it just means 200 something less points from something else and BT players needed something ANYTHING as they are still running a 4th edition codex .
The new rules are FAQed so you don't even need the book if you don't want it.
It's mostly irrelevant, imo. In casual play, just ignore them. Play by the rules you have access to and enjoy your game. If yoou want to play tournament, as the To to rule on it before the tourney, most have FAQs of their own anyways.
After blood in the badlands, and then Crusader of Fire, i wont be buying any more of these.. side projects
I've ordered the new Book. Only because I can now legally field Storm Ravens. Will it be worth £20 ..... prob not.
I do think though that BA should have got access to the Storm Talon. Saying that if a BA player was to field one I wouldn't have any objections. At the end of the day its a game. The day I take it to seriously is the day I stop playing.
I have a feeling the reason why Eldar and Tau didn't get a flyer is because they will definitely be getting a new codex this year . Take a look at the below link:
Advocacy of piracy or other criminal activity is a violation of the Dakka rules, which you agreed to in return for making an account. Please don't do this. -Mannahnin
i still say its a waste of effort. and money. and with the way GW has been pricing their stuff, i have to REALLY consider and be careful how i spend my hobby $. no longer can i take 50 bucks and get a kit plus glue or paint - now that 50 might get me close to a kit i need, but more likley im still 20-30 bucks shy. and god forbid if i want any of the terrain sets or a nice big tank/vehicle/flier.
im not sure what they are trying to acomplish with these "cash grab" releases...
mk2 wrote: BT players needed something ANYTHING as they are still running a 4th edition codex .
Lots of races have an ancient codex....Orks are also 4th wtf edition is SOB anyway Tau are pretty old etc etc.
Even if they changed dakkajet rules (which from what i hear, they didnt) i wouldnt buy this because i rarely use dakkajets anyway...im on the fence of calling them useless as pt for pt lootas are WAY better and only have the advantage of not being pi-plated....but pi plates that reach that far are rarer than the dakkajet actually surviving random fire from blowing it up since its av10 for some stupid reason.
I do think though that BA should have got access to the Storm Talon. Saying that if a BA player was to field one I wouldn't have any objections. At the end of the day its a game. The day I take it to seriously is the day I stop playing.
So do the Space Wolves have any fliers at present?
DA got their own type BA had theirs and now BT and SM got the Storm Raven as well.
So do they get the SkyWolf or something?
Vineheart01 wrote: Even if they changed dakkajet rules (which from what i hear, they didnt) i wouldnt buy this because i rarely use dakkajets anyway...im on the fence of calling them useless as pt for pt lootas are WAY better and only have the advantage of not being pi-plated....but pi plates that reach that far are rarer than the dakkajet actually surviving random fire from blowing it up since its av10 for some stupid reason.
For the points I'm not sure more than AV10 would be warranted, really. As it is, 18 twin-linked S6 shots when waaaaghing can be pretty damn nasty. Good luck surviving that against your Vindicator's or Predator's side armor, for example - which isn't always feasible to avoid, either. On average it needs 4+ to hit and thus hits what, 13-14 shots? Needs 5+ to glance, so 4-5 glances or penetrations. Bye bye tank, and points earned back easily. Admittedly against other fliers it is not superb, as it needs 5+ to hit and so only hits with 10 shots, with 5+ to glance AV11 resulting in ~3 glances or penetrations of which one on average gets jinked/invul saved, or against AV12 only 1-2 glances.
Sarigar wrote: There was no information of use for any of my armies in the fliers expansion. I also have no desire to play 40K scale dogfights. If I want an air to air styled game, I'll play Star Wars (I know they use space ships, but I hope you get my point).quote]
Pity you live in the states i've always wanted to play against someone but there are no players in my area.
For all the whining we do here at Dakka, GW website (Canada) just informed that the Death from the Skies book recieved huge success and is sold ouf of stock! a new print run is currently in progress for those people who were late to order.
I have now come to accept the fact that us 'hardcore' players who acturally own hundreds of models, are avivd players, loves the game so much that we post here to complain rules/prices/finecast is only a small, small minority and not GW's target audiences.
either that, or the old wisdom of a "fool and his money are soon parted" is GW's motto, and they boldface the "fool" and "money" sections as key items in their marketing strategy and target demographics.
Well, it's as if GW Inc are trying to **** me off even more about the whole mess.
I came to terms with BA (and GK...) not being allowed the Storm Talon, cause well, frankly, that's just typical of GW corporate.
I had held on for some hope at least Forge World would throw us a bone. After all, forge world are models may by hobbyists to sell by hobbyists, right?
Apparently not.
Forge World wrote:Storm Eagles aren't available to Blood Angels. There's a price for refusing to reveal STC data.
So, they are apparently citing 'the background' as the reason and yet 'the background' is changed by GW on a whim to allow Codex Marines to get Storm Ravens.
This is then later followed up with:
Forge World wrote:The point is, Blood Angels and Grey Knights do not have access to Storm Eagles.
I'm happy to see the rules in a book available since I didn't get the relevent WDs. I'm ok with them changing who gets access to them. I'm fine with GW charging money for a book of rules...
I'm peeved that the GW rep told my FLGS that this didn't exist the morning before. I'm angry that my FLGS was told they can't order it! As others have said, no retail is no sale.
I am new to the game. I play CSM, and I have about 1500 points in boxes and being built. I think the BRB is already confusing enough. I buy my models on eBay, so I get them cheaper already. I think this sounds really stupid, and a way for GW to try to make even more money than they already do.
On the one hand, I'm glad everyone is getting a flier patch and that the flier WD supplement is no longer an OoS nightmare. On the other, this feels like a really cludgy patch. It doesn't really feel like a massive money grab to me since 40k really did need an update like this but it does feel quite messy. The direct order nonsense is, well, GW being GW I guess. Same with the insufficient number of copies; I didn't find out about the release until it was gone.
If they make a suitably large print run for the next wave and send it out to retailers I might get a copy, but I've (mostly) sworn off buying things from the GW website. After learning that ordering from the website and having it shipped to a GW store doesn't even count as a sale for the store, meh, what's the point? It doesn't support the store, and it doesn't get me a discount... it's the worst of online and retail shopping combined. Then again, they're now in a race to get more copies in stock before the digital release, so who knows.
A patch that does no real balancing or fixing of issues. Just removes some older terminology, changes the availability of some of the existing stuff to different armies, and that's that.
It's not even a patch.
If it had bumped Vendetta cost to 150 points, given Dark Eldar flyers Vector Dancer or the Ork Flyers their own version of the Ramshackle table, it would be a patch.
If it had brought new flyers for Tau and Eldar, it would be a supplement.
As it is? Glorified, overpriced little FAQ wit pretty pictures.
Bought it and I'm sure it will be fine, just like all of GW's other books. I don't even bother paying attention to the haters anymore, as it seems no matter what GW does they are "wrecking" the hobby.
Samurai_Eduh wrote: Bought it and I'm sure it will be fine, just like all of GW's other books. I don't even bother paying attention to the haters anymore, as it seems no matter what GW does they are "wrecking" the hobby.
A patch that does no real balancing or fixing of issues. Just removes some older terminology, changes the availability of some of the existing stuff to different armies, and that's that.
It's not even a patch.
If it had bumped Vendetta cost to 150 points, given Dark Eldar flyers Vector Dancer or the Ork Flyers their own version of the Ramshackle table, it would be a patch.
If it had brought new flyers for Tau and Eldar, it would be a supplement.
As it is? Glorified, overpriced little FAQ wit pretty pictures.
You don't want to buy it? I'm pretty sure that your LGS will have a copy just for the costumers. Even some costumers may have it and I'm pretty sure you can peek. Hell, in a couple of months, every LGS that uses fliers will know the rules without checking it.
Is the LGS a GW? Here I am even more sure that they will have a copy for you to check.
You don't have to buy it. You can blame GW for the expensive FAQ, but not about the rules themselves as being "useless", mainly because is one of the few times that GW release all his stuff about something together, and not leaving something without updating.
You can blame the point cost of the vendetta, though.
So, Death From The Skies just turned up this morning.
I had bought it due to having the Storm Talon...
Part 1
AT £20, the book is 72 pages long. Softcover, reminiscent of the old Campaign book covers (EG Black Crusade)
The back cover is just a load of pictures of the flyers for sale.
Page 5 - 20: "The Battle of Cadrim" - This looks like a slightly extended version of the section in White Dwarf when the storm talon came out. It includes the same pictures of the White Scars armies etc.
Page 23 - 29: Air War Missions.
Mission 1: Deadly Bridgehead: Space Marines with Necron[i] allies, against Orks.
Mission 2: Scramble; Space Marines V Orks
Mission 3: Aerial Assault: Necrons V orks with Space Marine allies
Mission 4: Death from the Skies: Necrons V Marines
Page 32 - 40: Burning Skies - Looks like a reprint of the Crusade of Fire rules
Page 40 - 55: Gallery pictures
Now we're coming to the important bit
Page 56: StormRaven Beastiary: It includes the FAQ updates. EG, a Dreadnaught taking s10 hits if the flyer explodes and is zooming. The important note is [i]Blood Angels and Grey Knights armies use the rules printed here though their storm ravens have additional wargear options and rules - see the army list for details. Also, new piece of artwork. An ultrasmurf storm raven.
DakotaBlue - you'd think that, but no. It's direct only, so your only chance of seeing a copy EVER is if someone you know bought it from the GW website.
Furyou Miko wrote: DakotaBlue - you'd think that, but no. It's direct only, so your only chance of seeing a copy EVER is if someone you know bought it from the GW website.
And? At the GW where I play the manager and the staff have bought it, they have it there with their armies and let the customers check them, not as GW staff, as players themselves.
The other gaming stores have bought it too just to let the customers check it.
Also the tournaments organisers in my zone have bought a pair of them for the tournaments, the same way they print the FAQs.
If your zone really wants to get the things done, they will do this, because for them, it's not a waste of money, it's an investment.
Edit: Even more, a friend of my just bought 2 ravens just because he checked the rules from the staff guy DFS book.
Page 57: Storm Talon: Still 2 HP. It now has the Strafing Run rules. Type (Flyer, Hover). Escort craft rules looks to be clarified to avoid anything BS-ey. Can't escort anything using Outflank / Deepstriking. Plus other stuff. NO supersonic rules
Page 58: Valkyrie/Vendetta: Exactly the same as the IG codex, but with HP's added in - Same as rulebook. Also the Grav Chute Insertion rules have been updated with the FAQ rules
Page 59: VoidRaven/Razorwing: I'm assuming these are the same? Razorwing Armour 10, VoidRaven Armour 11. Night Vision/Supersonic rules
Page 60: DoomScythe: Looks the same as before
Page 61: NightScythe: Broadly the same as before. They clarify the embarked unit doesn't take damage when destroyed. Also they enter through normal reserves? No mention of rembarking on a night scythe... However. "If a night scythe has moved more than 24", the disembarking unit may only fire snap shots."
Page 62: Dakkajet: No Hover. However, Strafing run, supersonic. Fighta Ace upgrade has been renamed to 'flyboss' - it basically gives him Strafing Run against things you don't get strafing run against.... Aside from that, same as before.
Page 63: Burna Bomber, Blitza Bomber: Seems the same as before, with obvious changes. No hover. Supersonic, waaagh plane! Edit: Yep, points costs and upgrades are identical to White Dwarf.
Page 64: Wargear. A burna bomb is a bomb... Death Ray looks like it has rules changes... It hurts friendly models too. It can't hurt zooming flyers or flying monstrous creatures.
Page 65: Wargear. Everything looks the same.
Page 66: StormStrike Missiles: I dunno what to say, they actually seem to kick rear end... S8, AP2, concussive...
Page 68: Army List:
Storm Raven: Heavy Support: Yup, marines and templars get storm raven. Nothing for space puppies. Grey Knights and Blood Angels don't get stormstrike missiles. The rest looks broadly similar
Storm Talon: Marines/Black Templars only (typical). Fast Attack. A lot cheaper in points. The most expensive version is 10 points cheaper than before.
Page 69: Army List:
Valkyrie And Vendetta: Identical to earlier rules
Page 70:
Razorwing, Voidraven, Doom Scythe, Night Scythe:
I think these are identical to their normal rules
Page 71: The Ork Flyers: In all honesty, they seem the same as the white dwarf. I think someone with more of an ork brain will need to pick out the diffferences.
Page 72: Summary Page.
------------------
So, there you go. That's what your getting for your £20, and that's what the FLGS' are losing out on.
[i]Edit: So, in summary, it seems only Black Templars and Codex Marines players really need to buy it.
Well, thanks for all of your opinions Dakka. Seems like GW made a grat mistake.
Again.
so it's another bolter round into GW's coffin - Too bad it's clad in terminator armour, paired with the fact that no - one is actually in the coffin too. Looks like GW know no fear in the face of their angry customers - they march us like grots through minefields and still expect us to pay the painboy.
Next year, GW releases a book that gives guardsman power armour and more and more blood angels cheeses.
That was sarcastic. But being Gw it will probably come true.
Just got a look at DftS myself, and once again it feels like GW is just out of touch with it's customers. The disparity among flyers is set to remain until, potentially, a 6th edition codex is released for every army. Oh well, back to painting that Quad-Gun.
So what do I think about this overpriced piece of errata?
The pilots of the Grey Knights are gifted beyond the abilities of any other Space Marine pilot. A potent psyker in his own right, the pilot is as likely to fire mind bullets as he is missiles at his enemies.
I think the writer has to calm down or it might fall off.
You don't have to buy it. You can blame GW for the expensive FAQ, but not about the rules themselves as being "useless", mainly because is one of the few times that GW release all his stuff about something together, and not leaving something without updating.
You can blame the point cost of the vendetta, though.
you kind of a have to buy it if you want to use a SR or have a vendetta or a dakka jet in your army., just like you have to own a codex to legaly play the game . no opponent will care that everyone knows that a vendetta is 130pts , if you dont have the book he will call a judge .
Furyou Miko wrote: DakotaBlue - you'd think that, but no. It's direct only, so your only chance of seeing a copy EVER is if someone you know bought it from the GW website.
Except that direct only products aren't, shockingly enough, direct only, since stores can order - even if not necessarily preorder - them. So you can indeed see a copy without another customer having ordered it from the GW website.
This entire stunt with Skies of Death really has me at a position so awkward it's almost killed my desire to play the game. I know right now I have some totally dramatic RIP sticker in my sig right now, but the truth is, I'm still considering going down to my local GW store and breaking out my Orks just for fun. For the record, I don't have any fliers, and while I think it would be nice to have some (note: 1 is more than enough for me), the Skies of Death rule pack has been presented in such a manner, it almost seems to be condescending. No, in reality, it's entirely condescending. As a customer, we're given two choices: Pay $30 for these extra rules, or you're not able to play with your fliers legally according to the rules.
I've already picked up a box of CoO for Hordes, and I'm still considering if I want to go to GW or a different gamestore, which doesn't have 40k players.
For the record, I don't hate GW. I'm extremely disappointed in their business practices, as their actions in the last two years have shown very little regard to the casual gamer, and almost absolute vitriol for their competitive customers. I'm not getting on the soap box and shouting doom and gloom for GW; they appear to be doing a fine enough job at doing it themselves.
Maybe this is a test of a new way to market FAQ and errata's. Next FAQ and errata set will be a $20 digital download. If you don't buy, you can't use your army. Check, mate GW.
Looking at GW's box set flyers, and what they normally do with box sets, wouldn't all of them give you fewer "Bitz" than buying the fliers separately?
That would mean that not only do you get no discount, you also get cheated out of two card boxes, and a pile of spare plastic...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheLionOfTheForest wrote: Maybe this is a test of a new way to market FAQ and errata's. Next FAQ and errata set will be a $20 digital download. If you don't buy, you can't use your army. Check, mate GW.
If that happens, my entire 28mm 40k army will go up on ebay, and my only 40k wargame will be Epic Armageddon (as I only really play to kill stuff).
I wish my group would switch to Warmachine already.
GW is killing themselves. I'm embarrassed for them.
For the same price as this book, you can get a Warmachine starter set from an online store (it even comes with rules!). You know you can buy Warmachine from stores online, right? Amazing concept.
GW makes great models, and had great background... but it has sloppy rules and the company seems to be run by morons only after short term profits.
I don't mind the fact that the publication is mostly recycled content, I just won't buy it if that's what reviewers say. The real problem I have is that if it was a publication that I wanted, I would not be able to support my local store.
Death from the Skies came out to be exactly what I'd thought it'd be...another short sale to drag more money out of players.
Do you know how many BT and SM players that I will ask to show their book to play a Stormraven? Zero.
I get the feeling that I'm not the only one on that.
QFT...I used to play Black Templars and I would regularly field a Thunderfire cannon and other such vehicles that were not a part of their codex...if the opposing players had a problem I would certainly play without them, but they all felt so sorry for the Black Templars that they didn't dare complain.
Chipperwig wrote: If GW teamed up with Walmart and McDonalds... They may just take over the world.
Not quite, both Walmart and McDonals, while just as soulless as GW, usualy refrain from antagonising their customers. GW hasn't learned this yet, perhaps they still think that there is no competition.
TheLionOfTheForest wrote: Maybe this is a test of a new way to market FAQ and errata's. Next FAQ and errata set will be a $20 digital download. If you don't buy, you can't use your army. Check, mate GW.
If that happens, my entire 28mm 40k army will go up on ebay, and my only 40k wargame will be Epic Armageddon (as I only really play to kill stuff).
Or just play without the FAQs with friends. Outside of playing at an actual GW store (of all the stuff I hear about them, not sure why one would want to) it's not like GW can come up to you and break your legs if you aren't using all the books and FAQs and crap. I've played four matches with C:SM and two with Orks, and I don't even have either Codex. Checking the occasional tidbit from the store copy or asking other players has always carried the day if something's been unclear.
In other words GW can huff and puff all they want, they can't force me to pay for anything I don't want to pay for while I can still play the game just fine.
TheLionOfTheForest wrote: Maybe this is a test of a new way to market FAQ and errata's. Next FAQ and errata set will be a $20 digital download. If you don't buy, you can't use your army. Check, mate GW.
If that happens, my entire 28mm 40k army will go up on ebay, and my only 40k wargame will be Epic Armageddon (as I only really play to kill stuff).
Or just play without the FAQs with friends. Outside of playing at an actual GW store (of all the stuff I hear about them, not sure why one would want to) it's not like GW can come up to you and break your legs if you aren't using all the books and FAQs and crap. I've played four matches with C:SM and two with Orks, and I don't even have either Codex. Checking the occasional tidbit from the store copy or asking other players has always carried the day if something's been unclear.
In other words GW can huff and puff all they want, they can't force me to pay for anything I don't want to pay for while I can still play the game just fine.
The thing is, though, I currently have two people I can game with outside of a GW store, one of whom completely refuses to play without the most recent, up-to-date GW rules, and can't stand house ruling.
The other is at about my level of "STFU GW" on the 28mm 40k side of things, and would like to use EA for some epic tank battles
EDIT: Additional info: My rule-loving friend is also incapable of accepting a game of 40k under 2k points, and the fact that GW has poorly written rules, combined with his inability to house rule makes that single game take upwards of 6-8 hours.
I think we as consumers are missing the point of this thread.
We have almost all heard that it's just a compendium of WD, FAQ+6e HP and Crusade of Fire stuff, and that GW is asking everyone to pay for stuff they may have already paid for in its various forms simply to have their armies by GW-tournament legal (which is silly, because we all know GW doesn't have tournaments anymore).
We also have almost all heard that this is a money-grabbing scheme instead of a real move to improve or progress the hobby.
So, let's get off that tirade for a bit, because that horse has been beaten to a pulp, and move onto the question at hand.
Death from the Skies... without saying "All those rules came out before!," and "this 'paying for FAQs is bs!," what are your opinions of it as an expansion to 6e.
I don't wanna talk business practices, or where GW is taking the hobby... I wanna talk the content of the book in context to 6e rules and fluff.
Reason for edit: People either don't know about, or don't agree with, the perceived general opinion of Death from the Skies. My bad.
Matney X wrote: I think we as consumers are missing the point of this thread.
We all know (and generally agree) that it's just a compendium of WD, FAQ+6e HP and Crusade of Fire stuff, and that GW is asking everyone to pay for stuff they may have already paid for in its various forms simply to have their armies by GW-tournament legal (which is silly, because we all know GW doesn't have tournaments anymore).
We also all know (and generally agree) that this is a money-grabbing scheme instead of a real move to improve or progress the hobby.
So, let's get off that tirade for a bit, because that horse has been beaten to a pulp, and move onto the question at hand.
Death from the Skies... without saying "All those rules came out before!," and "this 'paying for FAQs is bs!," what are your opinions of it as an expansion to 6e.
I don't wanna talk business practices, or where GW is taking the hobby... I wanna talk the content of the book in context to 6e rules and fluff.
If it were simply an expansion, that'd be fine, and I'm sure the only people complaining about it would be the independent retailers that got the shaft from GW's actions. But this book is not an expansion, they are rules for a specific type of units. It's essentially an Forgeworld book full of Apocalypse units, but as fliers are clearly a part of GW's company (as opposed to Forge World), this is really a terrible practice to ask a customer to buy the rules to go along with their armybook. My first thought, in the mindset assuming I were a new customer, would be "Well, if I already bought the rulebook, why do I need to buy this book, too?"
I would love it if GW made some really neat rules for fliers as an -expansion- Basically do to fliers what Spearhead did to Tanks. But it's not. All other rules are obsolete. Pay $30 to continue using your $40-$75(?) kits.
Matney X wrote: I think we as consumers are missing the point of this thread.
We have almost all heard that it's just a compendium of WD, FAQ+6e HP and Crusade of Fire stuff, and that GW is asking everyone to pay for stuff they may have already paid for in its various forms simply to have their armies by GW-tournament legal (which is silly, because we all know GW doesn't have tournaments anymore).
We also have almost all heard that this is a money-grabbing scheme instead of a real move to improve or progress the hobby.
So, let's get off that tirade for a bit, because that horse has been beaten to a pulp, and move onto the question at hand.
Death from the Skies... without saying "All those rules came out before!," and "this 'paying for FAQs is bs!," what are your opinions of it as an expansion to 6e.
I don't wanna talk business practices, or where GW is taking the hobby... I wanna talk the content of the book in context to 6e rules and fluff.
Reason for edit: People either don't know about, or don't agree with, the perceived general opinion of Death from the Skies. My bad.
A patch that does no real balancing or fixing of issues. Just removes some older terminology, changes the availability of some of the existing stuff to different armies, and that's that.
It's not even a patch.
If it had bumped Vendetta cost to 150 points, given Dark Eldar flyers Vector Dancer or the Ork Flyers their own version of the Ramshackle table, it would be a patch.
If it had brought new flyers for Tau and Eldar, it would be a supplement.
As it is? Glorified, overpriced little FAQ wit pretty pictures.
This is my opinion on the book as an "Expansion". It's not one.
Sorry to be chucking us back in the argument, but this really is a fool's idea.
A patch that does no real balancing or fixing of issues. Just removes some older terminology, changes the availability of some of the existing stuff to different armies, and that's that.
It's not even a patch.
If it had bumped Vendetta cost to 150 points, given Dark Eldar flyers Vector Dancer or the Ork Flyers their own version of the Ramshackle table, it would be a patch.
If it had brought new flyers for Tau and Eldar, it would be a supplement.
As it is? Glorified, overpriced little FAQ wit pretty pictures.
This is my opinion on the book as an "Expansion". It's not one.
Sorry to be chucking us back in the argument, but this really is a fool's idea.
Sorry, in all the ranting in this thread (my own included) I missed this. Thanks -- that's really what I wanted.
There are even special manoeuvres that can be taken by pilots, such as the brutal Dark Eldar slash attack, the Necron firing protocols or the aptly named 'Smash 'em' for the Orks, which essentially results in a mid-air collision.
Why is there no talk about what this is?! Did it not make it into the book in the end and the blog team weren't told?
There are even special manoeuvres that can be taken by pilots, such as the brutal Dark Eldar slash attack, the Necron firing protocols or the aptly named 'Smash 'em' for the Orks, which essentially results in a mid-air collision.
Why is there no talk about what this is?! Did it not make it into the book in the end and the blog team weren't told?
Somebody did post a breakdown of the book's main sections, but I'm not sure where in the thread that is, and the overall result is that if you have a codex with a flyre written into it, there's no new info, and if you didn't it's not worth buying as it didn't add any. (Except for those damn prissy little ultrasmurfs).
EDIT: Added:
Also, bear in mind that while GW employees are master wordsmiths (except when writing rules), their things rarely live up to expectation.
The one good thing about this being direct from GW Online only is that I'll never have to see if when I go to play in my local GW, and therefore can completely forget it exists. Skies of Death? What Skies of Death?
Even though I have an Ork list based around 3 Dakkajets, I just simply can't afford to keep up with all the updates GW is doing anymore, I don't want to buy the book, and hopefully when I play people outside of my gaming group they will understand that I don't have the new rules for my one unit because I have to spend £20+ on them, I'm never going to use the rest of the book anyway, so what's the point?
AlmightyWalrus wrote: How are GK and BT players supposed to know what the Locator Beacon on the Stormraven does?
Buy a copy of C:SM? All kidding aside, you guys don't have them in your codexes? Odd. Hopefully they FAQ the rules into your codex or DftS. It's a fairly major oversight to include new options without the rules.
Not saying you're not right, just that I'd rather new codex's instead of some quickly tossed together flyer rules at this point. And you're right about the 
(I actually like the storm talon model... as I liked the storm raven from before too >_> I already own them from back near release but never bought the talon cause my codex can't use it, I may get some if 
. Take a look at the below link:
