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 Shandara wrote:
Being a psyker makes you better at everything obviously, even pressing buttons to fire missiles.

They're not psychically firing missiles, they're making missiles of psychic energy to fire with the actual missiles cause they're awesome.

That's Telekinesis, Kyle.

This entire stunt with Skies of Death really has me at a position so awkward it's almost killed my desire to play the game. I know right now I have some totally dramatic RIP sticker in my sig right now, but the truth is, I'm still considering going down to my local GW store and breaking out my Orks just for fun. For the record, I don't have any fliers, and while I think it would be nice to have some (note: 1 is more than enough for me), the Skies of Death rule pack has been presented in such a manner, it almost seems to be condescending. No, in reality, it's entirely condescending. As a customer, we're given two choices: Pay $30 for these extra rules, or you're not able to play with your fliers legally according to the rules.
I've already picked up a box of CoO for Hordes, and I'm still considering if I want to go to GW or a different gamestore, which doesn't have 40k players.

For the record, I don't hate GW. I'm extremely disappointed in their business practices, as their actions in the last two years have shown very little regard to the casual gamer, and almost absolute vitriol for their competitive customers. I'm not getting on the soap box and shouting doom and gloom for GW; they appear to be doing a fine enough job at doing it themselves.

The Storm Talon/Raven makes my DA flyers want to commit seppuku out of shame for how much worse they are in comparison

Maybe this is a test of a new way to market FAQ and errata's. Next FAQ and errata set will be a $20 digital download. If you don't buy, you can't use your army. Check, mate GW.

Looking at GW's box set flyers, and what they normally do with box sets, wouldn't all of them give you fewer "Bitz" than buying the fliers separately?
That would mean that not only do you get no discount, you also get cheated out of two card boxes, and a pile of spare plastic...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
Maybe this is a test of a new way to market FAQ and errata's. Next FAQ and errata set will be a $20 digital download. If you don't buy, you can't use your army. Check, mate GW.

If that happens, my entire 28mm 40k army will go up on ebay, and my only 40k wargame will be Epic Armageddon (as I only really play to kill stuff).

 Furyou Miko wrote:
That's Telekinesis, Kyle.

Add +1 to damage chart against Gaks at 200"

Mythantor wrote:
The Storm Talon/Raven makes my DA flyers want to commit seppuku out of shame for how much worse they are in comparison

Not as bad as all those other army lists who don't have any flyers at all.........

and of course Tryanids - no allies, no ADL.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Tryanids - no allies, no ADL.

I think you mean no allies, no Quad-gun/Icarus.

 pretre wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Tryanids - no allies, no ADL.

I think you mean no allies, no Quad-gun/Icarus.

yep - sorry.

I wish my group would switch to Warmachine already.

GW is killing themselves. I'm embarrassed for them.

For the same price as this book, you can get a Warmachine starter set from an online store (it even comes with rules!). You know you can buy Warmachine from stores online, right? Amazing concept.

GW makes great models, and had great background... but it has sloppy rules and the company seems to be run by morons only after short term profits.

I hope they wake up.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Is there finally an official pic of the Voidraven out?

I think I'll wait for my next ork codex. No sense in spending 40$ on 3 pages of rules. I'll stick with ignoring flyers during games.

If GW teamed up with Walmart and McDonalds... They may just take over the world.

I don't mind the fact that the publication is mostly recycled content, I just won't buy it if that's what reviewers say. The real problem I have is that if it was a publication that I wanted, I would not be able to support my local store.

 Che-Vito wrote:
I've been keeping an eye on this thread.

Death from the Skies came out to be exactly what I'd thought it'd be...another short sale to drag more money out of players.
Do you know how many BT and SM players that I will ask to show their book to play a Stormraven? Zero.

I get the feeling that I'm not the only one on that.

QFT...I used to play Black Templars and I would regularly field a Thunderfire cannon and other such vehicles that were not a part of their codex...if the opposing players had a problem I would certainly play without them, but they all felt so sorry for the Black Templars that they didn't dare complain.

 Chipperwig wrote:
If GW teamed up with Walmart and McDonalds... They may just take over the world.

Not quite, both Walmart and McDonals, while just as soulless as GW, usualy refrain from antagonising their customers. GW hasn't learned this yet, perhaps they still think that there is no competition.

Selym wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
Maybe this is a test of a new way to market FAQ and errata's. Next FAQ and errata set will be a $20 digital download. If you don't buy, you can't use your army. Check, mate GW.

If that happens, my entire 28mm 40k army will go up on ebay, and my only 40k wargame will be Epic Armageddon (as I only really play to kill stuff).

Or just play without the FAQs with friends. Outside of playing at an actual GW store (of all the stuff I hear about them, not sure why one would want to) it's not like GW can come up to you and break your legs if you aren't using all the books and FAQs and crap. I've played four matches with C:SM and two with Orks, and I don't even have either Codex. Checking the occasional tidbit from the store copy or asking other players has always carried the day if something's been unclear.

In other words GW can huff and puff all they want, they can't force me to pay for anything I don't want to pay for while I can still play the game just fine.

 tvih wrote:

Selym wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
Maybe this is a test of a new way to market FAQ and errata's. Next FAQ and errata set will be a $20 digital download. If you don't buy, you can't use your army. Check, mate GW.

If that happens, my entire 28mm 40k army will go up on ebay, and my only 40k wargame will be Epic Armageddon (as I only really play to kill stuff).

Or just play without the FAQs with friends. Outside of playing at an actual GW store (of all the stuff I hear about them, not sure why one would want to) it's not like GW can come up to you and break your legs if you aren't using all the books and FAQs and crap. I've played four matches with C:SM and two with Orks, and I don't even have either Codex. Checking the occasional tidbit from the store copy or asking other players has always carried the day if something's been unclear.

In other words GW can huff and puff all they want, they can't force me to pay for anything I don't want to pay for while I can still play the game just fine.

The thing is, though, I currently have two people I can game with outside of a GW store, one of whom completely refuses to play without the most recent, up-to-date GW rules, and can't stand house ruling.
The other is at about my level of "STFU GW" on the 28mm 40k side of things, and would like to use EA for some epic tank battles

EDIT: Additional info: My rule-loving friend is also incapable of accepting a game of 40k under 2k points, and the fact that GW has poorly written rules, combined with his inability to house rule makes that single game take upwards of 6-8 hours.

I think we as consumers are missing the point of this thread.

We have almost all heard that it's just a compendium of WD, FAQ+6e HP and Crusade of Fire stuff, and that GW is asking everyone to pay for stuff they may have already paid for in its various forms simply to have their armies by GW-tournament legal (which is silly, because we all know GW doesn't have tournaments anymore).

We also have almost all heard that this is a money-grabbing scheme instead of a real move to improve or progress the hobby.

So, let's get off that tirade for a bit, because that horse has been beaten to a pulp, and move onto the question at hand.

Death from the Skies... without saying "All those rules came out before!," and "this 'paying for FAQs is bs!," what are your opinions of it as an expansion to 6e.

I don't wanna talk business practices, or where GW is taking the hobby... I wanna talk the content of the book in context to 6e rules and fluff.

Reason for edit: People either don't know about, or don't agree with, the perceived general opinion of Death from the Skies. My bad.

I don't know that we can be said to 'all know and generally agree' on those points.

Matney X wrote:
I think we as consumers are missing the point of this thread.

We all know (and generally agree) that it's just a compendium of WD, FAQ+6e HP and Crusade of Fire stuff, and that GW is asking everyone to pay for stuff they may have already paid for in its various forms simply to have their armies by GW-tournament legal (which is silly, because we all know GW doesn't have tournaments anymore).

We also all know (and generally agree) that this is a money-grabbing scheme instead of a real move to improve or progress the hobby.

So, let's get off that tirade for a bit, because that horse has been beaten to a pulp, and move onto the question at hand.

Death from the Skies... without saying "All those rules came out before!," and "this 'paying for FAQs is bs!," what are your opinions of it as an expansion to 6e.

I don't wanna talk business practices, or where GW is taking the hobby... I wanna talk the content of the book in context to 6e rules and fluff.

If it were simply an expansion, that'd be fine, and I'm sure the only people complaining about it would be the independent retailers that got the shaft from GW's actions. But this book is not an expansion, they are rules for a specific type of units. It's essentially an Forgeworld book full of Apocalypse units, but as fliers are clearly a part of GW's company (as opposed to Forge World), this is really a terrible practice to ask a customer to buy the rules to go along with their armybook. My first thought, in the mindset assuming I were a new customer, would be "Well, if I already bought the rulebook, why do I need to buy this book, too?"
I would love it if GW made some really neat rules for fliers as an -expansion- Basically do to fliers what Spearhead did to Tanks. But it's not. All other rules are obsolete. Pay $30 to continue using your $40-$75(?) kits.

Matney X wrote:
I think we as consumers are missing the point of this thread.

We have almost all heard that it's just a compendium of WD, FAQ+6e HP and Crusade of Fire stuff, and that GW is asking everyone to pay for stuff they may have already paid for in its various forms simply to have their armies by GW-tournament legal (which is silly, because we all know GW doesn't have tournaments anymore).

We also have almost all heard that this is a money-grabbing scheme instead of a real move to improve or progress the hobby.

So, let's get off that tirade for a bit, because that horse has been beaten to a pulp, and move onto the question at hand.

Death from the Skies... without saying "All those rules came out before!," and "this 'paying for FAQs is bs!," what are your opinions of it as an expansion to 6e.

I don't wanna talk business practices, or where GW is taking the hobby... I wanna talk the content of the book in context to 6e rules and fluff.

Reason for edit: People either don't know about, or don't agree with, the perceived general opinion of Death from the Skies. My bad.

Hmm...

 Sephyr wrote:

A patch that does no real balancing or fixing of issues. Just removes some older terminology, changes the availability of some of the existing stuff to different armies, and that's that.

It's not even a patch.

If it had bumped Vendetta cost to 150 points, given Dark Eldar flyers Vector Dancer or the Ork Flyers their own version of the Ramshackle table, it would be a patch.

If it had brought new flyers for Tau and Eldar, it would be a supplement.

As it is? Glorified, overpriced little FAQ wit pretty pictures.

This is my opinion on the book as an "Expansion". It's not one.
Sorry to be chucking us back in the argument, but this really is a fool's idea.

Selym wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:

A patch that does no real balancing or fixing of issues. Just removes some older terminology, changes the availability of some of the existing stuff to different armies, and that's that.

It's not even a patch.

If it had bumped Vendetta cost to 150 points, given Dark Eldar flyers Vector Dancer or the Ork Flyers their own version of the Ramshackle table, it would be a patch.

If it had brought new flyers for Tau and Eldar, it would be a supplement.

As it is? Glorified, overpriced little FAQ wit pretty pictures.

This is my opinion on the book as an "Expansion". It's not one.
Sorry to be chucking us back in the argument, but this really is a fool's idea.

Sorry, in all the ranting in this thread (my own included) I missed this. Thanks -- that's really what I wanted.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=7900020-gws

on this page I read this blurb excitedly

There are even special manoeuvres that can be taken by pilots, such as the brutal Dark Eldar slash attack, the Necron firing protocols or the aptly named 'Smash 'em' for the Orks, which essentially results in a mid-air collision.

Why is there no talk about what this is?! Did it not make it into the book in the end and the blog team weren't told?

davou wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=7900020-gws

on this page I read this blurb excitedly

There are even special manoeuvres that can be taken by pilots, such as the brutal Dark Eldar slash attack, the Necron firing protocols or the aptly named 'Smash 'em' for the Orks, which essentially results in a mid-air collision.

Why is there no talk about what this is?! Did it not make it into the book in the end and the blog team weren't told?

Somebody did post a breakdown of the book's main sections, but I'm not sure where in the thread that is, and the overall result is that if you have a codex with a flyre written into it, there's no new info, and if you didn't it's not worth buying as it didn't add any. (Except for those damn prissy little ultrasmurfs).

EDIT: Added:

Also, bear in mind that while GW employees are master wordsmiths (except when writing rules), their things rarely live up to expectation.

Most of the flyer ace stuff was already previously published in Crusade of Fire so I didn't go into much detail on it.

It works as a supplement for me, mainly because I don't get WD, and I refuse to buy a crypad.
Printed rules look better on the bookshelf too.

The one good thing about this being direct from GW Online only is that I'll never have to see if when I go to play in my local GW, and therefore can completely forget it exists. Skies of Death? What Skies of Death?