Great Libby Gits! The old school head looks so much more intimidating for some reason, love it.

I go away for a few days, now I've got 6 pages to catch up on! You work fast!

UG

Shoulder
Pads.

That is one BA (not blood angels lol) looking Terminator Librarian

Wow had a busy week myself with two flight tests and a motorbike theory exam so didn't pop on for a couple of days and I'm 7 or so pages behind! Good work Gits! I like the retro libby, I have that model myself but haven't decided how to use him. The shield looks good, where did you get it from? I like the wheelie biker too.

The shoulder pads and sheild fit very well with that generation of model! I love the old termies!

Always a pleasure seeing what you do with the old classics

Agreed, shield and shoulders are the best parts. it all looks great though

Thanks everyone. I must admit that I'm inordinately proud of the way it turned out. It's a real mish-mosh of bits as graven pointed out earlier. The libby is a very early version of a terminator libby. The shield and should pads are Chapterhouse... the axe is from God-only-knows-where... but it's resin and beautifully made. The little bits are all GW from various kits (not that I ever buy a whole kit... but I'm a duck for bits merchants). The base is Dragon Forge... I think.


So, since we're spending all day tomorrow with my wife's Father for father's day, today is my father's day. So I slept in 'til 6 and have spent the day modeling and goofing off a little bit with the kids. Offered to take the family out on the boat but the wife is feeling poorly so we skipped that. As a result, I have the second dozer blade bits cleaned up, modified and primed & ready for painting. Helped Thing 1 build 6 assault terminators which is LONG overdue in his army, added a special bit to the termie libby and built the last scout biker for this squad. So without further adieu...


Please ignore the paint job on the bike, that'll get painted over.

And the whole squad together...


Sorry the photo appears so small, it's plenty big... so feel free to zoom in on it in the gallery


As always, thanks for your kind comments and thanks for reading!

They look great Gits, really characterful unit right there.

Lol, i love "i got to sleep in till 6". Either that was 6 in the afternoon or you've got a very strange concept of 'early'.

Unfortunately... 6 am. But that's sleeping in for me! ;-)

6am is sleeping in?! I call getting up at 6am insomnia

I really like how your Terminator libr. looks, and your painting's very nice. Well done!

2 boys? 6 am would be a gift of a lie in. Great squad pic!

They look great together How're the Doom Eagles coming?

Just updated the thread... go look!

Oh Gits,
After some troubles at work recently, I finally got my pay through today so I'll ship that your Thunder Baron next week

Libby looks great gits! Creative use of bits as always!

Great news DE, looking forward to it!

@CCain: Thanks! I do my best with the bits I have available. I'm getting the painting bug now though... Might have a little time tomorrow for such things. At the least I'd like to get the other dozer blade painted, the libby and bikes primed, and the foot scouts painted green.

The jet bikes are looking good! Are your going to strip the painted one, or is it thin enough to just go over?

The axe looks like on of the ones that come with the honor guard for the Red Scorpion Libby.

Nah, the paint is very thin on it so I'll just paint over. I can use an acetone cotton swab on any parts I'm worried about. Wherever the axe came from, it's a real beauty.

It's definitely one of the Red Scorpion honour guard ones. Probably one of the nicest all round kits I've had from GW

O.K. Finished up the second dozer blade. Went smoother and cleaner than the first (though the first is fine). I backed off on the highlight shade a bit and I like it better. The new blade is on the left.

So here they are, the 397 and the 705 with their brand new dozer blades! (Man I can't way to get my light box set up again...)

Yeah, i much prefer the yellow on the 2nd.

Still both look great!

I wish Gits did commissions lol, I would love to have my stormturkeys and dreads painted this awesomely.

I also prefer the newer blade, though as mentioned theyre both great

Gitsplitta wrote:Just because it fits with the conversation... this is actually the first photo I uploaded to dakka. My old jump pack libby... he got a bit of an upgrade to his paint job a year or so ago & I still use him all the time (the bolt pistol dates him). I'd like to selectively strip his chest eagle and re-paint it... but I'm not sure I want to risk having the acetone wander all over the figure & ruin it.

Im loving the helmet with the wires running over it...
i wouldnt use acetone, well it is metal you dont really have to worry about it... but if its plastic it will bite through and ruin the details...
you could try stripping it entirely by dipping it in pure dettol for 12-24 hours, then giving it a gentle scrub with a tooth brush and it will even strip the primer... then you can redo the paintjob and unleash all your new awesome skills on him...
the model is amazing! i really think there should be more jump pack libbies

I am ashamed to say that I never noticed the amazing detail on the axe before

DijnsK wrote:

Gitsplitta wrote:Just because it fits with the conversation... this is actually the first photo I uploaded to dakka. My old jump pack libby... he got a bit of an upgrade to his paint job a year or so ago & I still use him all the time (the bolt pistol dates him). I'd like to selectively strip his chest eagle and re-paint it... but I'm not sure I want to risk having the acetone wander all over the figure & ruin it.

Im loving the helmet with the wires running over it...
i wouldnt use acetone, well it is metal you dont really have to worry about it... but if its plastic it will bite through and ruin the details...
you could try stripping it entirely by dipping it in pure dettol for 12-24 hours, then giving it a gentle scrub with a tooth brush and it will even strip the primer... then you can redo the paintjob and unleash all your new awesome skills on him...
the model is amazing! i really think there should be more jump pack libbies

Yes, there should be more jump pack libbys!

On topic: Those scout (Jet) bikers are looking great gits!, oh, and the termi libby, and the razors and, well the rest!

Agreed

@Vit: Thanks!

@Alf: No thanks!

@BoA: Thank you too sir! Glad we're all in accord on this.

@DijnsK: I don't intend to repaint the whole figure, I'm far too lazy for that. Just want to have another whack at the chest eagle which means selectively stripping it.

@BoA: That was part of the re-paint. I was experimenting with some power weapon techniques described in one of the white dwarfs. Unfortunately I think I lost the issue since then.


Progress for tonight. Scout squads for the LS storms are almost completely painted. Finished pics tomorrow night.

Gits, did you post a reply?
It just that it keeps on saying you've posted something new but when I go to check, it comes up with Boa Racoon's post.


Edit: hit by the page roll over... Again

The irony is my own jump pack Libby is that same model - it was such a perfect pose for it really. The newer ones just don't have the momentum!

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Gits, did you post a reply?
It just that it keeps on saying you've posted something new but when I go to check, it comes up with Boa Racoon's post.

That's 'cause I'm a god. Deal with it

That's "page roll-over". Every 30 posts the page rolls over but there's this period of a few posts in transition that get's lost until you get enough posts on the new page. It's very annoying and something that I believe admin is looking at addressing.

Seems annoying enough, though I haven't had any problems with it yet

Yeah, the only time I really see page rollover issues is with Gits' thread, as his seems to be the only one to work faster than the server

I think its the size of the thing. To my knowledge, there is only 1 bigger thread, and no one noticed the rollover on that one.

And he says he's not one of the greats

I appreciate that BoA, but you're giving me too much credit. My huge blog is the product of a lot of work on my part, combined with a cadre' of readers who, for whatever reason... have become invested in the overall project and contribute a lot of their own time and energy to make it successful. Yes, I'm a decent modeler & painter... but not great by any stretch. I'm fine with that. I'm constantly learning and improving, and will try damn near anything... but "great" I am not. I say this not out of false humility, but because there are true greats that have been on Dakka for years and who's work is world class. Have you ever seen Yakface paint?? Holy crap he's good. Never knew that did you? He's just the admin after all. Go through that list I posted a few days back and you'll see some of the true greats. And even then not all of them. That list is biased because of my interests... I'm sure there are some fantastic guard or dark eldar threads out there that I just haven't seen because they aren't my thing.

I think the main reason I'm somewhat "famous" is that unlike most normal people, I haven't had the sense to break this project up into smaller blogs, but kept it as one huge thread... which in and of itself becomes an attraction. Look at Pyriel's Salamander images in his gallery. If only he'd have published those in a single blog rather than multiple smaller ones... The same is true for many other of the finest painters and modelers on dakka. I don't know, perhaps I'm more approachable than some because my work is good but not great, it's still well within the realm of what most people can accomplish if they put their mind to it. I've always had a knack for teaching... perhaps those aspects of my personality come through in the blog and compensate for my lack of prowess. In the end... who knows? Like everyone else, you do what you do and hope enough other people find value in it to make it worth the effort.

I do appreciate and am very flattered by your opinion of me, but the true greats our out there on Dakka for you to yet discover. Go find 'em!

Just consider me a Dakka gate-way drug.

Gitsplitta wrote:I do appreciate and am very flattered by your opinion of me, but the true greats our out there on Dakka for you to yet discover. Go find 'em!

Just consider me a Dakka gate-way drug.

Hah.

I've already started rounding up my cadre of things I follow. And surprised I got folks following my sporadic self. (I think sporadic is putting it easy. I don't know that many people who bounce around half as much as I do.)

All in all, this blog is still worth a read. It's retro. It's got some very crafty conversions and yes, we the readers influence it happily. Just because feedback is important and always good.

I just need to paint more lol, hopefully I can put the finishing touches on an assault marine and honor guard tonight

Dakka-fame is not something I think I can achieve lol.

Well damn Gits I didn't realize I offended you And yes I know Yakface is the admin and a god >.<

Didn't offend me at all BoA! (just gave me a bit too much credit is all.)

I'm really happy with the way the scouts are turning out. I picked them up used because I really liked the way they were put together and they had a decent paint job. I'm just changing a bit of the uniform color on them to match (which is complicated enough) and adding a bit of war gear to the sergeants. So don't get too worked up about some visible mold lines, etc... for what I'm using them for it's just not worth the effort at this point to clean them up (as it would require an over-all re-paint... which is exactly what I didn't want to do). At table-top viewing distance... they'll look just fine. Better actually because the poses are really nice.

I now have the desire to paint my own scouts.

Of course, should I do the 5 plastic snipers, the 5 old metals or the 3 retro-scouts!

Yes, I have 3 unpainted retroscouts.

Take it you're using the more modern chaps?

Yeah, these are plastic scouts but either they're converted from guardsmen or they're an older plastic scout. The torso is certainly from a "marine" model as most have the Imperial Eagle splashed across the front, but instead of having the big trapezoidal body armor, it's more normally marine-shaped (hell, it could even be a marine torso) with all kinds of cool gear for backpacks. that's one of the things that attracted me to them in the first place... they really looked like they had real gear they were carrying around. Medical kits, tents, grappling hooks and cable, communications gear... the works! They're actually really neat figures and dynamically posed... just the wrong color (which I can easily fix) and the odd mold line (which I won't fix, not at this time and for this purpose anyway).

I think they look great. Wish I knew who built them... someone at our FLGS, but I don't ever remember seeing them at any of our tournaments before. In any case, they're a welcome addition to my army where scouts will figure prominently. And they didn't take much effort to convert over. So much the better!

Gitsplitta wrote:Medical kits, tents, grappling hooks and cable, communications gear...

Sounds like IG to me

I need to get me some scouts once I'm done my two tactical squads. I believe it's (almost) next on my list.

What! Scouts actually carrying likely stuff? I think you may have the wrong game, Git

I like the pics of the bladed razors, partially because the use of the sand terrain with a blue sky background really makes them come a little bit more alive to me.

Finally, don't sell yourself short, Gits. What you've put into this blog easily beats a lot of the other blogs out there, in sheer continuing of it as well as getting fellow users involved in it, aiding it its fame around these parts of the internet.

I have spoken. Kaesar II out.

Scouts are done. Again, please be kind... these are just a quick paint-over to get the squad up and running.

Combiweapons are care of Chapterhouse. Went together very easily though you do have to drill out the magnet hole in the lower part of the gun to get the magnet to seat correctly. Neat thing is you can then swap out the single-shot accessory at will. So... in case it's not obvious, one sergeant has a combi-melta and melta bomb, the other a combi-plasma and teleport homer. I will put squad markings on the shoulders... WHEN exactly that happens is up in the air.


Love the modeling job on these figures... wish I knew who did it. These have, in essence... marine torso's and arms without shoulder pads, and either scout or guard legs (not sure). Heads I don't know... some space wolfy lookin' ones to be sure, but by-and-large in pretty good proportion.. so maybe guard?

I like how you edited your own post several times before any one had responded Git.

On another note, I do agree with you on the scouts. Its a very simple kit bash but it works well. A nice quick and easy 200 points worth of guys to add to your growing mantis horde.

Well let's see, first I forgot to add the pic, then I forgot the comment on the modeling... then I misspelled something I think.

... being me is NOT easy. I mess up a lot.

I reckon that's Catachan legs with 0 guard heads involved. Those are pretty cool scouts, though, besides that I'd be inclined to wonder about weight concerns with that upper body armour.

SM Torsos, arms and heads.
Catachan legs.
Backpack bits from Cadians, Catachans and Battlefield obstacle sprues!

yup, just like darkstarsabre says, catachan legs, SM everything else.

They look pretty cool, I'm amazed the bodies don't love over powering when on those small legs, it works though, cool stuff.

Hi gits soz haven't kept up to date..Plog look grate (Espasiclly the scouts)...

For a repaint it looks very nice!
As everyone mentioned, the legs are catachan

@Kaz: Hey man, good to have you check in again!

@DSS: Thanks for sorting that out... I'm not really up on IG stuff.

@Sage: Hi Sage, been a bit... how've you been?

@HAZ: Cheers Haz! Thanks!

@BoA: Thank you sir!

Thanks all. I appreciate the comments on what is obviously a table-top project rather than my usual effort. I did take it very easy on the re-paint. Since my green is normally airbrushed, I used the same Vallejo Air paint & brushed it on. It's a very thin paint, so the highlights you see are actually the original white of the figure showing through. Then I washed with Thrakka Green. So the added layers are both very thin. I did re-paint the shoulder pads with some pretty heavy white (to get it to cover), but due to the nature of the pad shape, they handled it just fine. As I mentioned before, I'll add squad markings to each and will probably change the color of the sergeants' pads to help identify them in the crowd.

I kind of like the idea of full marine body armor as it makes more sense to me than having separate armor for scouts and marines. When they get to this stage, they're already partly augmented... makes sense that you'd give them their torso armor which gives them the best protection around their vital organs while not burdening them with all the other pieces which they may not be strong enough to bear yet. This way they begin to form an attachment to "their" armor as scouts, rather than starting when they become full marines.

I managed to get primer on the scout bikes and my libby this morning. Have a boy scout thing with Thing 1 tonight, but if I can I'll try to get the airbrushing done on something... probably the librarian since I'll be short on time. At this point, I'm just trying to get a basic paint job down on the bikes and libby for the game on Saturday... then I can take my time and properly detail them afterwards.

Gitsplitta wrote:

Seams like a pretty simple yet effective conversion: SM head, chest/back (no backpack-probably shaved the knob off for which the back pack sits). The arms are just bare SM arms (no shoulder pads). Legs are Catachan IG. ALot of the bits around the watse are SM accessories. AT first I thought the back packs were from a third party source like:

Maxmini: http://www.maxmini.eu/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=19
Pig Iron: http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/eq1-backpack-and-pouches-p-31.html
GW: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440253a&prodId=prod40008a

However, upon closer inspection that doesn't seam to be the case

1. One of them looks to have a Catachan vox caster
2. The melta sarge has an bit from a 3rd edition attack bike (box with bedroll - I did the same thing with my SW seargeant ages ago) with a melta bomb attached to the top.
3. One of them has a canteen from a Rhino kit attached to his back
4. That bed roll may be from the IG tank assesory sprue

Edit: Oops...Dark Star already pointed most of this out...at 1:00am

I added the melta bomb... it's kind of out of place up there but at least it's visible from my opponent. I'll probably pop it and magnetize it so it can be added or removed as necessary.

Love those Maxmini pouches and packs... very nice!


So, I've decided that the teleport homer doesn't actually do me any good with the scouts. Originally, I was going to use it as an alternate point for the pods to come down on... but that isn't right, pods don't teleport. THEN I was going to use it as a point for my libby to "Gate" to... but again, I don't think that's teleporting either... even though it does use the deep strike rules.

So, I'm thinking of dropping the useless homer and the melta bomb and buying a 4th scout biker, which would give that squad an ablative wound to protect the 3 grenade launchers.

Thoughts?

As someone that has gone backpacking, I like the meltabomb scout. Keep the most important gear on top where it can be easily accessed in an emergency .

Gitsplitta wrote:So, I've decided that the teleport homer doesn't actually do me any good with the scouts. Originally, I was going to use it as an alternate point for the pods to come down on... but that isn't right, pods don't teleport. THEN I was going to use it as a point for my libby to "Gate" to... but again, I don't think that's teleporting either... even though it does use the deep strike rules.

So, I'm thinking of dropping the useless homer and the melta bomb and buying a 4th scout biker, which would give that squad an ablative wound to protect the 3 grenade launchers.

Thoughts?

Very valid point. The homer won't be much use til you decide to start including Terminators in the army. And even then you can always buy a locator beacon for one of the Drop Pods for less, which might be more beneficial (more support for the Dreads!) - as the Pods reduce their scatter so they don't land on Impassable Terrain or friends or enemy - just be careful around table edges! In addition the extra wound for the Scout Bikes is good as you can allocate an armour ignoring wound to it and save a bike!

Alfndrate wrote:As someone that has gone backpacking, I like the meltabomb scout. Keep the most important gear on top where it can be easily accessed in an emergency .

Yes.... just in case the LS Storm borne scouts get "surprised" by a Lehman Russ or something.

DarkStarSabre wrote:Very valid point. The homer won't be much use til you decide to start including Terminators in the army. And even then you can always buy a locator beacon for one of the Drop Pods for less, which might be more beneficial (more support for the Dreads!) - as the Pods reduce their scatter so they don't land on Impassable Terrain or friends or enemy - just be careful around table edges! In addition the extra wound for the Scout Bikes is good as you can allocate an armour ignoring wound to it and save a bike!

Actually I already have a Homing Beacon with the scout bikers. It's their job to get into position before turn 1 so that my "drop pod assault" comes down exactly where I want it. Only works when I have first turn, but given the advantages of going last (depending on scenario), I think I have a better-than-even chance to go first in most games.

Fighting the page rollover I am.

Ah, indeed. The scout bikers ! I'd say scrap the homer then. The meltabomb can be useful but the teleport homer...not so.

Besides, the beacon's useful all round whereas the teleport homer isn't! If anything drop it and get the extra bike.

Zip the Scout bikes forward (where the extra bike wound is so much more important!), drop the pods in front of them and then use them as a mobile Terminator delivery system.

Wow, accidental highlighting. That's pro



Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarkStarSabre wrote: Terminator delivery system.

DarkStarSabre wrote:Fighting the page rollover I am.

Ah, indeed. The scout bikers ! I'd say scrap the homer then. The meltabomb can be useful but the teleport homer...not so.

Besides, the beacon's useful all round whereas the teleport homer isn't! If anything drop it and get the extra bike.

Zip the Scout bikes forward (where the extra bike wound is so much more important!), drop the pods in front of them and then use them as a mobile Terminator delivery system.

Good idea. Unfortunately there are no terminators in this particular build, but there will be eventually. They can either run interference to prevent my drop podded troops from being assaulted the turn they come down, or the LS Storm scouts can do that and the bikes can take off to where they can use their grenade launchers to better effect.

they aren't too bad. at present however, they look like mentors. I think it's the white shoulders....decals would help

Imperial Monkey wrote:they aren't too bad. at present however, they look like mentors. I think it's the white shoulders....decals would help

Thats it!
I was wondering what they reminded me of, Thank you ImpMonkey!

They do look good Gits, great kitbashes.

I was thinking of painting their shoulder pads yellow (to match the other main color in the MW heraldry). Kind of why I painted them white, so that I could go with a yellow over the top and get a clean color. But for the time being, the white seemed to work OK. They'll be with the rest of my army so their chapter affiliation won't be in question.

In any case, there are no MW decals so I'm on my own there. I've decided not to paint chapter symbols on their shoulders, in part due to the complexity and in part to suggest that they haven't earned the right to bear the chapter badge yet. Squad markings are another matter & I might have decals for that (unless I go free-form).

MW decals:

There is a kind of paper (the blue ones from decals) that you can buy at walmart or other stores of the sort. APparently they're super expensive so watch out. there are two kinds, depending on your printer type so make sure you get the right kind. Then you can make the decals on photoshop, paint or whatever else and print them on this paper. Look it up, there are some pretty good tutorials about it


Automatically Appended Next Post:
MW decals:

There is a kind of paper (the blue ones from decals) that you can buy at walmart or other stores of the sort. APparently they're super expensive so watch out. there are two kinds, depending on your printer type so make sure you get the right kind. Then you can make the decals on photoshop, paint or whatever else and print them on this paper. Look it up, there are some pretty good tutorials about it

I've gone the decal route before BoA. You weren't around then... but I wasted a lot of time trying to make DIY decals work. No thanks. I can print of self-adhesive clear stickers for larger, flat areas just fine (see wings of vanguard), or even print on paper and attach that (see mantis badge on drop pods)... but I'm done with the whole decal thing. If I can't paint it or it's not produced commercially... it ain't goin' on.

Ahahah sorreh


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was excited for having contributed something useful

You're fine BoA. I appreciate the effort!

Yeah i am alittle intimidated with decals. I really need to put them on my crimson fists but dont want to have them not come out right.

Well, decals are fine... they just take a light touch. It's the DIY one's that gave me fits. Personally, I think dry transfers are far superior to decals, both in look and ease of use.

I'm with you on this one git. I have had such trouble that any decal type thing i now hand painted on my minis. Probably why they don't have a lot, lol.

For those fans of BLACKHAND... he's just posted a pic of the progress on his kit bashed Dread Knight for his Red Knight's. It's very cool, go check it out. And make sure you comment on how much the lower abdominal armor and ball joints for the legs look like a giant phallic symbol!

Blackhands "Rude" Knight

Shhhhhh! (don't tell him who sent you!)

Gitsplitta wrote:For those fans of BLACKHAND... he's just posted a pic of the progress on his kit bashed Dread Knight for his Red Knight's. It's very cool, go check it out. And make sure you comment on how much the lower abdominal armor and ball joints for the legs look like a giant phallic symbol!

Blackhands "Rude" Knight

Shhhhhh! (don't tell him who sent you!)

You're an evil man Gits

Meh, he'll read this blog eventually and see it... but it would b be fun to load up his thread with a bunch of comments on his little Freudian construct. LOL

Gitsplitta wrote:For those fans of BLACKHAND... he's just posted a pic of the progress on his kit bashed Dread Knight for his Red Knight's. It's very cool, go check it out. And make sure you comment on how much the lower abdominal armor and ball joints for the legs look like a giant phallic symbol!

Blackhands "Rude" Knight

Shhhhhh! (don't tell him who sent you!)

Now thats just mean! At this rate I may just send it to the guy who bought it and let him deal with the DreadKnight and his "Doom Crotch"


Oh and the rumours for 6th edition is that deepstriking troops don't scatter if they are 18 inches or more away from an enemy, so teleport homers may not be as important as before......

@BLACKHAND: Isn't it your bed time or something??

Actually, whomever bought them should model little erections on all the models & come up with a stylized symbol for the chapter badge ... "olo" ... for example. After all, in ancient culture it was considered a symbol of male virility and power (AKA The Rude Man of Pern). Besides, there isn't much of a slide between "Red Knights" and "Rude Knights"!

Hmmm... interesting... first actual rumor I've heard about 6th... do tell. You know anything more?

Dude...there is an entire thread both here and...

I can't believe you don't read my Madison 40K posts...

*Goes to his bed and cries into his pillow*


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/377248.page

You only need to read the first post

Sorry wyfox... Madison 40k is only viewable from home or my phone, neither of which is very convenient. I'll check out the dakka post though. Thanks.

edit:
Your link is broken.

Gitsplitta wrote:Sorry wyfox... Madison 40k is only viewable from home or my phone, neither of which is very convenient. I'll check out the dakka post though. Thanks.

edit:
Your link is broken.

Its broken for me too.....
EDIT:I've posted a thread to see why its broken.
@Gits: Its in News and Rumours, although there is a lot of speculation as to whether its real or not.

Gitsplitta wrote:Well, decals are fine... they just take a light touch. It's the DIY one's that gave me fits. Personally, I think dry transfers are far superior to decals, both in look and ease of use.

You're not the person who needs to get the Decals on and then paint further details onto them!

I need to do that for both my Imperial Paladins and my Extinction Angels.

OK, I found the thread. Interesting. No idea how much truth there is to it, but to be honest I can roll with anything. I cut my teeth on 1st edition where the rules were only a rough sketch and each individual group of gamers had to make up the rest in house rules. So having a bit more complicated system, especially of the complex parts add to the variety of the gaming experience sounds fine to me.

I remain skeptical however.

@wyomingfox, theres a full stop at the end of the link you posted (which is why it comes up as broken) fyi

You mean I placed an extra period at the end . Fixed!

Ghost 21 said a fair bit of the rumors meshed with what he had seen so far. Taste Taste (BOK) also said some of the info alligned with what he had heard from his sources as well.

wyomingfox wrote:You mean I placed an extra period at the end . Fixed!

Well...... benefit of the doubt and all that

I'll read up on that

Gitsplitta wrote:@BLACKHAND: Isn't it your bed time or something??

Actually, whomever bought them should model little erections on all the models & come up with a stylized symbol for the chapter badge ... "olo" ... for example. After all, in ancient culture it was considered a symbol of male virility and power (AKA The Rude Man of Pern). Besides, there isn't much of a slide between "Red Knights" and "Rude Knights"!

Hmmm... interesting... first actual rumor I've heard about 6th... do tell. You know anything more?

I was actually posting before work...and am now posting during my break

And if they guy who bought the "Rude Knights" wishes to model little GS erections on all the knights I both am terribly impressed by his dedication and more than a little worried about his mindset

Damn! Now I"M calling the Rude Knights!

My word you dont check this for a few day and you have 5 pages to catch up on. Gonna have to start watching this more. But everything I have seen I like. That Army pic was awesome to see the fore togeather like that.

OK, I admit it... I bought Blackhand's Red Knights. I was hoping to debut them with a pic but I've been so crammed with other projects that I haven't had time to repair the minor shipping damage.

They're beautiful, and I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to own a little more of Blackhand's work! I'll post pics of their progress as I go. In the mean time I have to figure out how to model tiny little weiners.

(man I love dakka, makes eating dinner alone at the pub much more interesting!)

Wow, quite an announcement!

looking forward to the phalluses....

That's quite an announcement of your own there Vitruvian

Lol, that came out wrong!!

Them's quoting words Vitruvian

[Jaw Drops]
YOU bought them?!
YOU?!
WHY GITS WHY?!
YOU were the one who first commented on it showing it bits!
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?


Wait, I owe you don't I?

Ok, I take all that back.
We're now equal

Oh... Vit. You're in for it now... :-)


LOL! Matt... Look before you leap my friend.

Great to hear they went to some one known to us, the Red Knights will be a great ally to the Mantis Warriors!

Matt.Kingsley wrote:[Jaw Drops]
YOU bought them?!
YOU?!
WHY GITS WHY?!
YOU were the one who first commented on it showing it bits!
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?


Wait, I owe you don't I?

Ok, I take all that back.
We're now equal

In Shawnese "The gun is good. The...ermmm...phalic is evil."

-totally uninterested in the Red Knights-

This isn't about the Red Knights...
It's about Gits buying the the Rude Dreadknight

Wow, im shocked! But very enthusiastic at seeing them side by side with the MWs!

That's because they aren't yours! Mine... all mine. Thbbbbbbt!

Gits has gotten crazed with the RudeKnight

Pleaaaase enlarge his dong

Is this to be the fate of this blog?
After 160something pages to turn into the realms of homosexuality?
Everyone! Become Sane!

170 some*

And I am not gay

What!
170something already!
slow down I need to catch up and make my blog get the same number of pages

Insta sane now in an easysqueeze bottle, no more mess! no more stains! just squeeze and leave!!

We shall no schlonger discuss the gravity of the naughty bits of my knights, thank you. I have enough inferiority issues as it is. Suffice to say I am delighted to have accepted the responsibility of finishing the Red Knights and will do so with all of the care and skill I give my own Mantis Warriors.

First off, no one was saying were were gay BoA..stop being so defensive

....though you were the first to drop all innuendo and just blurt out that my DK has a, well, dick..so um yeah.

And frankly the fact that Git's blog has lasted this long without descending into infantile humour is a miracle, and he only has himslef to blame

I'm kinda proud that my model is the thing started it all actually

I think it would be wise to post stuff about the knights in spoilers.

THE WARDENS OF XMAS!!!!! (red and green, come on srsly?)

down hill.

I was GOING to say something else but Gits said not to speak about the topic so, I said that instead.

Like the spoiler suggestion, and yes, I did start it. Pretty sure the blog will survive.

First off: Git said Schlonger. lul EDIT:

Git wrote: We shall no schlonger

Second off: Blackhand, I LITTERALLY laughed out loud (and I still am)

Blackd-err-hand wrote:you were the first to drop all innuendo and just blurt out that my DK has a, well, dick..

EDIT:

Instead of being immature on this blog, you thought about being immature on BLACKHAND's blog, didn't you?

erm, whats happened here?

Acually, don't tell me...

Terrible things Maddy.....
Check ou BLACKHAND's blog for the full 'story'

Yeah, look there.
Gits won't let us speak about it here

Hrm, it seems all of this rudeness has initiated a page rolllover bump! Let the hobby commence


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I always get ganked by the auto append :(

Not just you, me as well!

As I missed 2 pages of junk jokes (bu dum chi), I need to simply add that I am amazed that anyone else has seen the movie WF has referenced.

wyomingfox wrote:

In Shawnese "The gun is good. The...ermmm...phalic is evil."

A giant red bandolier clad cookie for you sir. Though from your avatar, I shouldnt be surprised.

That is really cool that you picked up the RK Gits. Before you get all crazy on the slips, maybe we should ask Rapeman2000 about it...

Hey, you got to do it last page, in the few hours I was away from dakka I had 2 pages to read. I do find your current title quite appropriate. What is a Junkatrukk anyways?

Got no idea.
Some sort of ork vehicle

You know what else is an ork vehicle?


Okay, okay.. I'm done

P.S. do you guys like the addition to my signature? That's staying

Probably a little rough BoA. This is a family show after all. Inuendo is fine, blatant profanity I try to steer away from on my blog anyway because I know there are 10-year-olds who frequent it. But... it's your sig, do what you'd like.

I would like to get the blog back on track. I posted one parting shot on BH's blog, but after that I'd like to let things get back to normal. It's late, storms are rolling through but I'll try to get some work done tonight. I plan on airbrushing the libby... which will be interesting as I've never used blue through my airbrush so I'm not sure what to expect. I'll also prime the last scout bike. Depending on how I feel, I may or may not try to airbrush them.

More later. And thanks in advance for not letting things get too far out of control.

Yea, you got it
Curious to see blue airbrushed..

can't wait to see!

Well you better get some practise airbrushing blue, you have a lot of blue Nemesis force weapons to paint....

Yeah... I'm thinking of doing to librarian's weapon some other color... perhaps orange... something to set it apart from my power weapons which are always blue and your force weapons which are the same... but.... perhaps not quite the same as the weapon in the hands of an epistolary librarian. Get where I'm going BH?

or

Yes... something like that. Thanks BoA.

Yep. Cattafish posted a really good tutorial somewhere. I'll dig it up real quick


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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/359397.page

yeah its been a while, but im lurking, just got some work since i got home for the summer.
Great to see this blog still growing!

Get what you mean Gits, I reckon its a good idea, all force weapons can't be created equal

I agree power and force weapons shouldnt all look the same...did my salamanders power weapon a mix of blood red and shining gold to make him stand out from the others.....plus i didnt have many other colors to begin with :p

Well, got the last biker primed, the Libby air brushed and his base mostly painted. Can't show you a pic though as it's raining and the stupid satellite is down. Maybe tomorrow.

Argh, playing catch-up! Great work mate. It's funny though - I was trying to work out if the scheme I had in my head for me Mentor Legion scouts would work and Lo! You have answered it for me. Cheers mate

I just caught up too. I think I missed something. I'm not sure I want to know!

Cheers graven! Glad you like them!

@DSS: You didn't miss much, just foolishness.


OK, as I mentioned before, in spite of the late night (Thing 1 got his first Boy Scout badges & achievements.) and the storms... I got some painting done. The airbrushing of the librarian is now done save whatever I decide to do with his axe/halberd. I also painted the base a bit, mainly so the WIP shots looked a little better. Not sure how far I'll get before my game on Saturday. I have to get to this stage with 4 jet bikes at the least, but we'll see.



Next step is a wash with somewhat diluted blue wash. That I'll do for sure. The figure is directionally shaded from top to bottom. Unfortunately from the side angle, all you're really seeing are the mid-tones. If you look at the shield though, I blended all the colors used on the model on the shield, so you can see the range of colors there.

Now that blue has come out somewhat nice looking. He almost seems to be shimmering a bit.

indded, almost... immaterial

Are those chapterhouse shoulderpads I see there?

Yep, shield is theirs too.

nice to see them on a model, I accidentally bought 10 of them recently and was wondering whether to get a squad of termies to put them on. I say accidentally as I thought I purchased the marine tech pads for my stealth squad.

On an unrelated side note I was super impressed with their customer service when I contacted them (on a Saturday monring) they had a set packaged up and ready to be sent in Monday's post.

Hopefully they will be here quick enough to be included in this months mini of the month competition after all it is WIP's

Looking good Gits, that blue is something else! I'll be upset if Darstarsabre likes yours enough to lick though! i'd be jealous! :-) but it does look tasty!

Very nice Gits! I just got caught up on the past 10 pages, looking forward to watching the termi go to completion!

UG

That blue is wicked. very nice, Can't wait to see it finished.

This blog has just stopped me from revising property offences and Fraud for my exam tommorow... no motivation except for the pub visit post exam :(

Epistolary looks great Gits!
I still cant get over the helmet though, every time i look at it it looks like he is gonna bash my head in with his axe

Hey Asylum, I picked up a number of those tech pads myself... they just look really clean and nice. Kind of old school with a twist.

Glad you guys like him so far... really this is just the base coat, but the gradients from the airbrushing make him look further along than he actually is. I think the sparkle is from the lighting... my regular light box isn't set up so my light and camera settings are kind of bollixed up at the moment. In some of the pics I took, you can really see "spatter" from the airbrush, but when you look at the mini closely it's just not there. I think it's the way the lights I have (without the diffusing effect of the light box) reflecting off of a thousand little irregularities in the casting or the spray passes.



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Ninja'd !!

@Unluckyguardsman: Thanks for taking the time... yeah, the pages have really piled up... especially with a couple of pages of goofing off added in. But I have been busy over the last couple of weeks. Getting the dozer blades and scouts done were significant steps forward, even though they don't amount to much points-wise.

@Matrim: So... if I ever complain about lawyers... or law officers(?), I'll know it's MY fault eh? I can live with that. Have a porter for me, will you? Cheers!

@Reiko: He is.... ;-)

Gits, Libby seems to be coming along nicely, but I have two questions.
1.) Are you keeping his shield blue? I don't have any objections to that, just curious.
2.) You had mentioned recent storms in your area. Does weather, particularly humidity, affect your airbrush the same way it could affect spray paint? Or does the compresser do a good enough job of keeping it nice and even throughout?

Hey Moltar,

1. I'm glad you mentioned the shield. I have been formulating an opinion on storm shields. IF a shield was actually going to give you a save vs. a blow or shot that would normally kill you outright, it could not simply be a made out of a piece of metal or ceramite... it would have to be something extraordinary that utilized some other method of defense.

I intend to interpret that.. as a "power shield", as in "power weapon". Thus I will be painting some part of all of my storm shields with the same type of glow as my power weapons. With this shield, I'm actually going to repaint it so it goes from darker blue near the crux to blue/white near the rim (or perhaps visa-versa). then once the rest of the shield is painted, I'll add the osl for the glow (or perhaps I'll reverse the whole process... but you get the general idea).

2. No, storms just make life interesting. We're in a tornado prone part of the country though the placement of our home and the hills around us make us pretty safe from direct disaster. By the same token though we are prone to flash floods that again, won't hurt our house but have cut our driveway in half or even our road... and there's always the possibility of huge hail stones damaging our cars or the roof of our house, or 70-80 mph in-line winds knocking the hell out of everything. So when bad weather rolls through, assuming we don't lose power... there's still plenty of other things to consider that keep me away from the painting desk, especially with two little kids to look after.

Oh, as to your last point. Our house is air conditioned so even though my studio gets less of it than anywhere else in the house, humidity never really comes into play.

Ah, well thanks for the quick reply, bud. I like where you're going with the storm shield. I agree with you, that no plain metal disc is going to stop a hail of bolter fire. I look forward to seeing you class it up with some force weapon effects. I've spent some time in Milwaukee, both in the summer and winter and know the extremes you face. I also grew up in the mid west so I'm well aware of the hail and tornadoes that tear through there. I'm not sure if Madison gets quite the amount of humidity that Milwaukee does, but it can't be too far off, since you're still relatively close in proximity. But, as long as your indoors, then it shouldn't matter. Just keep that room ventilated. We don't need a passed out Gits, face down in spikey bits. Thanks again, bud.

So Git, your Libby there he's got a Captain America thing going on.... That shield is Awesome really high detail. I also agree with your point about why would it have to
be super force fieldy thing on or in a sheild, why not a just a rare element instead.

Or even for a libby like him why not a mentally projected shield i.e.


As an example of what I mean, clear resin or clear setting glue of somekind modled over a of curve in a jaged pattern with it's edges airbrushed.

Gitsplitta wrote:
2. No, storms just make life interesting. We're in a tornado prone part of the country though the placement of our home and the hills around us make us pretty safe from direct disaster. By the same token though we are prone to flash floods that again, won't hurt our house but have cut our driveway in half or even our road... and there's always the possibility of huge hail stones damaging our cars or the roof of our house, or 70-80 mph in-line winds knocking the hell out of everything. So when bad weather rolls through, assuming we don't lose power... there's still plenty of other things to consider that keep me away from the painting desk, especially with two little kids to look after.

Jeesh you make WI sound like a natural disaster zone Gits . WI is actually a pretty safe area to live in actually. While we do get a few tornadoes every year, the scale and ammount of tornadoes pales in comparison to the plain states or the South East (Tropical Storm spawned tornadoes). We do get some flooding, but again, not on the scale of other states that lie along the major river deltas. No huricanes, ice storms, little earthquake activity, and very few fires. Worst you have to deal with is being barried in snow 3 months out of the year (and even that has only been in the past 4 years - we had a long stretch of mild winters prior to that ).

As for humidity, most Wisconsinites are very much a fan of air conditioning which provides a nice humiddity buffer within the home and keeps it pretty dry all season long (infact, in many cases you need to add humidity -- via a humidifier -- in order to keep your home's woodwork from cracking ). If I recall corectly, Gits workshop is indoors, so changing weather shouldn't factor in much. Same reason I do all my priming indoors in the basement.

@Moltar: Studio has lots of windows and an exhaust fan in the ceiling. I'm good.

@Santobell: Nice idea & I understand (even though your link is broken). Doesn't Wonder Woman do that kind of thing? Anyway, I'm going to leave this particular libby the way he is... I like him!

@WyFox: Wisconsin is where the gods of sky and earth do battle, and hapless millions suffer in the wake of the red swathes they cut across the landscape. Abandon hope all ye who enter here... for your souls are forfeit, and your bodies will be but chaff in the winds of rage that play across this desolate wasteland!

I'm also looking forward t your take on the Shield/Power weapon.

If you are doing OSL - would it not clash?

I'd also be afraid of too many 'bright' colours - i.e the Blue of the librarian may not necessarily fit well with a green glowing shield...

The glow of the shield will also be blue, but it'll go a little farther towards white than the libby (actually quite a bit farther) and it'll have OSL over the gold rim. I think that should set it off enough look convincing.

Axe blade will be orange... because I LIKE blue and orange... very orky.

ah sweet. Looking forward to it!

On a sidenote: kill me now. Law and morality is taking its toll.

Is that a class title? .... God help you.

Got to worry when there is more than one subject in a class' title...like BioPhysicalChemistry

Gitsplitta wrote:Is that a class title? .... God help you.

Luckily it isn't! Just a possible essay question. along with "Liability and Fault" and "Judicial Creativity". Oh, I also have to apply one of the following : Theft, Burglary, Robbery, Criminal Damage, Blackmail, Fraud by false representation and Obtaining services dishonestly.


Tomorrow I use a paintbrush for the first time since may!

Best of luck then! And welcome back to the grey and faceless ranks of the brush slaves...

Cheers!

I don't mind painting though! Probably because i don't play, so i tend to paint things that i want to at the time.
(fancy getting that trade back up btw?)

Would love to Matrim but I'm still several trades (say... 4) behind the point where I'd feel good about taking on another. I'll keep working through them though & we'll get squared away eventually.

1 day of absence on this thread = 2 pages
I did manage to see the libby however, and he looks awesome. Can't wait to see what you do with him

Gitsplitta wrote:Would love to Matrim but I'm still several trades (say... 4) behind the point where I'd feel good about taking on another. I'll keep working through them though & we'll get squared away eventually.

No worries Gits.
Get that librarian painted more importantly!

wyomingfox wrote:Got to worry when there is more than one subject in a class' title...like BioPhysicalChemistry

Or the word 'Advanced' (such as Advanced Analytical Chemistry *shudders in remembered pain*

Or classes that are so infamous you don't even need to spell out the words completely... like "P-chem".

Discreet Math comes to mind......

Gitsplitta wrote:Or classes that are so infamous you don't even need to spell out the words completely... like "P-chem".

O GOD!!!!

*curls up in the foetal position crying and rocking*

I'm and English education major, the worst I have is "History of the English Language"... Well, that and "Teaching Reading in the Middle Grades"

I take... French

-dun dun duuuuuuun-

On topic: I like the idea of the power-shield, and I was thinking of making mine look like a storm cloud on the inner area and putting lightning jutting out around the edges.

More progress than I thought and all before midnight.

- washed libby and made some more progress on base.
- airbrushed and washed bikes, painted some metal bits, base coat on base

At this point I can relax a bit. Just need to do the power weapons and the rest is gravy before Saturday.

The base puts my volcanic Chaplain to shame! Did you use bits of sprue for the crystal-y bits jutting out?

It may be the lighting, but it already looks like the libby is glowing.. is that just me?

@Alfndrate - don't you go knocking' History of English Language! Now just do what I did and fall asleep in your final...

@gits: Am liking where this going. Is it your lighting, or are you playing with a zenithal paintjob on the libby?

I believe I got the base from Dragon Forge. It's not actually lava... just cracked earth with a rock and some crystals jutting out. I still have to figure out how to paint the crystals... need to stare at some of pyriel-'s work for a while.


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Yeah graven, all these figures are fully blended light to dark.


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Dang it! My reply must be caught in page rollover... well, guess it's time for bed anyway.

I meant my lava base


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Ohh, so that's page rollover

Yeah... PITA.

Looking Good Gits, the airbrushing is really showing its worth :thumbsup

Yeah Reiko, I would never have gotten these figures to this stage in two days without them. I mean the blending effects are very nice with an airbrush, but the real payoff is the time savings in the early stages of the project and being able to paint large, flat surfaces like vehicle hulls without any obvious brush strokes.

I'm glad I got them to this stage as I'm a bit unsure about how much time I have left to paint between now and the game on Saturday. I have to go to an open house tonight as the electric company is running a new, huge set of power lines and one of the possible routes is literally through my back yard. That would be a disaster for us financially and emotionally. I'm off Friday but want to take my boat out and run it through it's paces again. Parents are coming in on Saturday afternoon and I thought an evening on the boat would be nice but I have a lot of cleaning and prep work to do to get it ready. (It's just a little fishing boat, but it's been sitting outside for a couple of weeks and will require a good deal of cleaning).

So, lots going on besides painting minis. With the time I have, I'm torn between trying to focus on one thing (probably the libby) and get it finished by Saturday, or just keep working on both so they are all more done by game time (but nothing is completed).

Any thoughts on the matter?

I think, as a person that you should finish one of them completely and utterly amayzingleh, however; for someone who was to play you on Saturday, I think having as much of your army done as possible looks better than a squad of bikes with the first (few?) coat(s).

If that made any sense at all :headscratch:

I can see how the time saving would be a God send, and it does do great zenithal lighting/blending as well.

Ouch, sucks about the cable! Hope you get that sorted (read: not in your back yard!)

Personally, knowing how you like to do one thing at a time (not a bad philosophy by any means), i would say finish off the Libby if you can manage it. Then later you can spend bit more time making each of the bikers truly unique with paint as well as with modelling.
Just my $0.02

Gitsplitta wrote:Rebuilding the Mantis Warriors one marine a month"..... er.... "one marine at a time

I think you answer your own question in your sig

Ha,I just love the libarain when it was sprayed the first time,It just looks like some sourt of alumious bule ailen thing!

Gits, I'd go with the Libby, theres nothing wrong with putting some WIP pieces on the board, but if the scouts look like they might be in the MW chapter, go with the libby, finishing him off will add a nice starkness (especially if he's finished) to the green wave .


As for the power line issue, would it hurt your family financially because it lowers the value of the house? and I guess I don't see it affecting people emotionally, but then again I live in a densely populated city, so I don't get fancy nature.

@Alf: As to the power lines.... we live out in the country in the woods. Pretty much spent our life savings on a country house, in the woods... so you know... we could be in the woods... in the country. The new lines could (I stress could) go through our property down it's entire length, and the resulting clear cut and land grab would essentially eliminate most of the property we own, and because of the terrain, give us a perfect view of 130' (guessing) giant power transmission towers & lines beyond a chain linked fence. What was left of our property would be virtually worthless because of it's proximity to the power lines, and the things we currently do on our property (which is the reason we bought it in the first place), hunting , hiking, foraging, getting wood for winter, & just being around nature... would of course no longer be possible.

My wife and I are both biologists... so we're into that kind of thing.

Kind of a kick in the crotch.

Mind you, it might go somewhere else, if not just pretend your the emperor and scare them away.

Well, that's why we're going to the open house and any meetings on the subject. I'll try to get the whole neighborhood involved as there are a whole bunch of us who's lives will be equally affected.

Gitsplitta wrote:@Alf: As to the power lines.... we live out in the country in the woods. Pretty much spent our life savings on a country house, in the woods... so you know... we could be in the woods... in the country. The new lines could (I stress could) go through our property down it's entire length, and the resulting clear cut and land grab would essentially eliminate most of the property we own, and because of the terrain, give us a perfect view of 130' (guessing) giant power transmission towers & lines beyond a chain linked fence. What was left of our property would be virtually worthless because of it's proximity to the power lines, and the things we currently do on our property (which is the reason we bought it in the first place), hunting , hiking, foraging, getting wood for winter, & just being around nature... would of course no longer be possible.

My wife and I are both biologists... so we're into that kind of thing.

Hunting!I thought that was ileagl...Or rear at least!

Gitsplitta wrote:@Alf: As to the power lines.... we live out in the country in the woods. Pretty much spent our life savings on a country house, in the woods... so you know... we could be in the woods... in the country. The new lines could (I stress could) go through our property down it's entire length, and the resulting clear cut and land grab would essentially eliminate most of the property we own, and because of the terrain, give us a perfect view of 130' (guessing) giant power transmission towers & lines beyond a chain linked fence. What was left of our property would be virtually worthless because of it's proximity to the power lines, and the things we currently do on our property (which is the reason we bought it in the first place), hunting , hiking, foraging, getting wood for winter, & just being around nature... would of course no longer be possible.

My wife and I are both biologists... so we're into that kind of thing.

Makes sense... Fight the Power (lines) then

In America Hazzer, hunting is largely legal (though many species you can only hunt during particular months of the year).

Its a wide spread myth that we're all cowboys...a lie purpetrated by the French. In reality, all Americans are coonskin cap wearing, squirel sniping, family fueding, deer eating, fur trapping, hillbillies.

In fact, here's a pic of me as a child hanging out at the family cabin:

ESPECIALLY Wisconsin folks... we're toothless, barefoot, musket totin', cousin marryin', Packer rootin' hill folk!

*grin*

However hunting and fishing are very big out here, and yes... both are legal. Actually the hunting is necessary for managing the deer population, especially with population aggravated diseases like tuberculosis and chronic wasting disease becoming more prominent.


That's a great pic WyFox.... :-)

The only hunting and killing I have ever done was spiders, I dont think that counts, its not really big thing in the UK

I wish Ohio would jump on the deer population control. We've got areas that are terribly filled with them and Ohio's Bow season is long (about 5 months I think) but our gun season is 2 weeks lol, and we're still only allowed a certain number... I think its like 1 doe a year, and as many bucks as you can buy tags for... Its been years since I've been involved with hunting.

Gitsplitta wrote:Actually the hunting is necessary for managing the deer population

I hear that Nothern WI is starting to get some wolves moving in from that der place called Can-A-da .

Because Wisconsin was trying to decrease it's deer population, we had just the opposite, as many does as you could shoot, and you had to shoot a doe before you could "earn" a buck tag. We had a flood locally a few years back that pretty much wiped out our local deer population and this is the first year that I see them in the numbers they were in before the flood... but in the intervening years, I've had to pass on a couple of nice bucks because I didn't have my doe.

I'm NOT a good hunter by-the-way... I just love sitting in a tree in the woods being as quiet and immobile as possible because you see things you'd NEVER see otherwise. But, I have no issue with hunting & if I get a shot at some venison I'm more than happy to take it. So far though, my only deer was a doe that had been hit by a car and had dragged herself onto our property to slowly die, so I put her out of her misery. I have had two fawns stick their heads into my hunting blind though (like a little tent). That was really exciting. They were too young to know that I was something to be avoided & were just investigating. ... and no, I did not shoot them OR their mother. Unfortunately I think the flood got them.

@WyFox: Yes, Northern WI is developing a pretty healthy wolf population. We even get the occasional wolf down here following the river courses. Folks in the area are certain some of the drop in deer population is due to wolf predation (though I think it's stray individuals rather than a pack).

Gitsplitta wrote:
My wife and I are both biologists...

Oh.

Gitsplitta wrote:... we're toothless, barefoot, musket totin', cousin marryin', Packer rootin' hill folk!

Wait...

Alfndrate wrote:I wish Ohio would jump on the deer population control. We've got areas that are terribly filled with them and Ohio's Bow season is long (about 5 months I think) but our gun season is 2 weeks lol, and we're still only allowed a certain number... I think its like 1 doe a year, and as many bucks as you can buy tags for... Its been years since I've been involved with hunting.

And we are a shotgun only state, which makes it even harder. I believe its 2 or 3 does and 1 buck per person now. I dont really go "hunting", I have a friend with a farmers kill permit with my name on it (literally), so if I want some venison, I take advantage of that.

Gitsplitta wrote:I'm NOT a good hunter by-the-way...

I tried deer hunting many years ago. I was up in our woods on the ground next to a few hay bales when a does walked in front of me. She was 5 feet away. I drew my gun up and shot...under neath her...at 5 feet away. I figured at that point, deer hunting was not my calling. I do love me some venison state, though, especially sliced up thin and grilled on a skillet in some olive oil with some salt, pepper, and flour for seasoning

*Orc YUM Face*.

Ohio Regs:

1: Hunters are not required to buy a Deer Permit before purchasing any Anterless Deer Permits.
2: Antlerless Deer Permits ($15) may only be purchased until November 27, 2011.
3: A hunter may harvest no more than one (1) antlered deer during the 2011-2012 season regardless of where or how it is taken.
4: All deer hunters must possess a valid Ohio Hunting License.
5: Deer taken in Urban Units and during Controlled Hunts do not count against a hunter's Deer Zone bag limit.
6: Deer Zone bag limits are separate and do not impact deer hunting in other Deer Zones.

and then there are specific areas where you're allowed to shoot more or less deer.

You may want to check into it Gits, but in Ohio you can also get free tags and do not need a permit to hunt on your own property if you own more then a set number of aches.

Also, you better paint some stuff asap, we seem to be getting OT at the drop of a hat lately.

Wisconsin has that, but we don't quite have enough... need 1.5 more acres I think.

"better paint some stuff"??? Have you seen how much I've gotten done recently??? let me review... in roughly 7 days I've done:

These combi-plasmas...


These dozer blades...


These scouts...


These scout jet bike conversions...


And this terminator epistolary conversion!


I think that's pretty damn good for one week...

You seem to accomplish in a week what I am happy if I get done in 6 months...

Anyone have a good way to paint African/American skin tones?? Doesn't have to be African/American... could be African/European or whatever... just mixed skin tones that you'd typically find in people of African decent but several generations off-continent.

If I could get the heads, arms and legs of my bikers done they'd be very close to looking complete & then I could put the rest of my efforts towards finishing up my Librarian.

It's absurd how GW practically refuses to paint anything in this category and there's very little info out there on the subject, but this CMoN article is probably the best, at least as a start:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/articles/1310

Thanks Moltar, I'll take any help I can get. I don't even think there are any colors in the range that are even close.

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That does kind of beg the question... is there an neo-nazi undertone at GW?

Here we are with a huge galaxy of humanity over thousands (millions)of worlds... and everybody's white? It's difficult not to draw a similarity between Hitler's "master race" and the space marines... the anglo, fanatical, super human protectors of humanity. There are the Salamanders... but they're BLACK black... not negro. Maybe some mongol influence in the White Scars.... that's about it for mixed races in 40k. No arabs, no asians, no africans, no south americans... I realize the game started with a bunch of blokes in the UK but after 20 years you'd think things besides the height of a space marine would have evolved a bit.

Never really thought about it before but it does bear considering. Is there more out there that I'm unaware of?

My older brother did an African-inspired SM army:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/372407.page

If that's the kind of skin tone you're looking for I'm sure you could shoot him a PM and he'd be kind enough to tell you what he used to achieve it.

Man your brother is a very talented painter! Woof! Very nice skin tone, kind of a chestnut brown.

I may well do that. Let me go through that article first & then we'll see where I stand.

Thanks Moltar!

Anytime, Gits!

Gits!
Progress has been made, I have finally packaged your two minis, ready for shipping tomorrow (hurrah!).

I think they'll be alright, it looks as if I've taken my inspiration more from Fort Hood than Fort Knox. Dear oh dear.

Anywhos, liking the progress so far, and I have to say, I've been turned around by those bikers, in a group they work quite well!

Disjointed.

Cool DE, thank you! Looking forward to them!

Yeah, the bikers were kind of a leap of faith, but I think they're turning out OK.

bah, deer hunting is easy!

Try shooting a running rabbit at 50 yards with grandads .22 rifle!


...gits, i had 4 pints and a Jaegerbomb for you... and going out later.
FREEDOM tastes so good.

Outstanding Matrim! Cheers mate!

Gitsplitta wrote:Thanks Moltar, I'll take any help I can get. I don't even think there are any colors in the range that are even close.

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That does kind of beg the question... is there an neo-nazi undertone at GW?

Here we are with a huge galaxy of humanity over thousands (millions)of worlds... and everybody's white? It's difficult not to draw a similarity between Hitler's "master race" and the space marines... the anglo, fanatical, super human protectors of humanity. There are the Salamanders... but they're BLACK black... not negro. Maybe some mongol influence in the White Scars.... that's about it for mixed races in 40k. No arabs, no asians, no africans, no south americans... I realize the game started with a bunch of blokes in the UK but after 20 years you'd think things besides the height of a space marine would have evolved a bit.

Never really thought about it before but it does bear considering. Is there more out there that I'm unaware of?

There are others, IIRC that there is an IG regiment based off of the arabs.

Yeah there are the Tallarn Desert Raiders and in fairness, after years and years (40,000 or so) mankind would all just be a mix of all the races into one mish mash of a race, but probably wouldn't all look quite so caucasian.

I would say it has a lot to do with what the chapters are based on as well.

UM = roman = white
DA = german = white
BA = Slavic = white
SW = Swedes = white
BT = well, I'll give ya that one, but who plays them anyways

I think some of the other chapters lend themselves to other cultures though. Crimson Fists are all Hispanic names. Iron Fists I have often seen a B;ack, and salamanders used to be, before gw retconed them into being Jet Black. White Scars are (ironically) asian. RG are all pasty and stuff.

Again with IG, but I'd think they would be more mixed (Im going to spell these wrong):
Cadain = Modern armies (US, Europe) = still usually seen as white (high % of officers are vs. enlisted is more diverse)
Catachan = Vietnam Army = see above
Pretorians = Prussians = white
Talarians = Middle Eastern
Vostrins = Russian = white
Elysians = Modern SF = COD (or any other shooter) White main characters
DKoK = Can't see any flesh anyways

Now if they were portraying all the CSM as ethnic groups, I'd give it to ya.

Reasonable, but it doesn't really invalidate my original observation, and as to the Crimson Fists... the origin of Hispanic is Spain = also white. I'm curious if the Talarans are actually middle eastern, or just Caucasians in middle eastern clothing (I honestly don't know).

As to the blending of the races... perfectly logical, but the resulting skin tone would be significantly darker than that typically depicted in 40k artwork or GW painted figures as Moltar suggests.

The reason why I think the majority of the Imperium is "white" is because if you look at plenty of the worlds, while they get sunlight, there are also just as many cities that never see the light of day (i.e. hive planets) The lack of sunlight and vitamin D would lead to paler and paler skin tones.

Also, if you read Blood Gorgons, I believe the natives of the planet in the book are closer to an Arab skin tone and culture than anything else I've seen."

I think, don't quote me on this, it is mainly because the white tone is easier to create with the paint types that GW make. It may just be an easier skin tone to create full stop.
I did achieve a vaguely Japanese tone on one guardsman...

Not a great pic, but you get the idea...
of course, if you're talking about skin tone...then why are all troopers in the 40k universe identical heights??

I want to apologize for any insult that may be taken from this post (i can see it happening). I don't see any other way of putting it...

@Alfndrate- indeed, take us Scots as an example...

No, i see it, and I bet that GW makes many of the skins white because they are catering to their audience, I am positive that there are people of every race, creed, religion, sex, sexual orientation and whatever you can think of that play this game, but I would be willing to bet that the majority of GW's customers are white young/middle aged males. GW wants to appeal to as much of its customer base as possible, and most white, young/middle aged males want to see white, strong and powerful looking soldiers in their army. Not trying to be racist if this post was taken that way, just stating my opinion on why i think GW has the color schemes it does.


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Also, i think they are all the same heights because it gives the army a sense of order and uniformity

Good points all. And IM... don't sweat it, I at least, found nothing to be offended by in your comments... and besides this little distraction was my idea to begin with.

I'm not trying to troll for controversy, just was genuinely curious and the *apparent* lack of diversity amongst the Imperium's finest. Everyone's made great points along the way and handled a pretty gritty topic very professionally.

My hat's off to you all.


One thing that no one's mentioned... at least with the space marines... aren't they all direct genetic decedents of the Emperor (gene-seed wise I mean) through the primarchs? Since he is always depicted as Caucasian, it might hold that once the gene seed is integrated into a new marine the marines natural appearance becomes tempered somewhat by the uber-genes of the Emperor. I'm not totally up on the current meta-fluff so I'm not sure on this.

well, the darkest skin tone in 40k is the salamanders, and that comes in when they are inducted into the salamanders...which only serves to dig GWs hole deeper with the idea that it requires genetic modification to make you dark skinned....

Well... obviously somebody left the salamander's gene seed in the toaster a bit too long.

Gitsplitta wrote:Well... obviously somebody left the salamander's gene seed in the toaster a bit too long.

lol

Gitsplitta wrote:One thing that no one's mentioned... at least with the space marines... aren't they all direct genetic decedents of the Emperor (gene-seed wise I mean) through the primarchs? Since he is always depicted as Caucasian, it might hold that once the gene seed is integrated into a new marine the marines natural appearance becomes tempered somewhat by the uber-genes of the Emperor. I'm not totally up on the current meta-fluff so I'm not sure on this.

Two things about the gene-seeds (in relation to fluff I know)

You could attribute the "same-ness" due to coming from the Emprah, but as a BA player, All blood angels taken off of the Baal planets are not the pretty boys they turn out to be, being in their stasis chamber as the Gene-seed does its work makes them look more like Sanguinius. So something might happen with other chapters.

Imperial Monkey wrote:well, the darkest skin tone in 40k is the salamanders, and that comes in when they are inducted into the salamanders...which only serves to dig GWs hole deeper with the idea that it requires genetic modification to make you dark skinned....

The White Scars ideally should have darker tones more akin to the Mongols.

And if you really want to do it right?

Dark Angels done as Native Americans thank you very much. After all, one of their recruitment worlds was based on that approach.

Really, the skin tone issue I suspect has more to do with paint tones readily produced.

But even the SMs should have some variation - White Scars are mongol based, Dark Angels recruit from varied worlds, Night Lords and Raptors are much paler skinned and I believe the HH books point out the differences in skin tones in the pre-heresy legions - native Cthonians were much darker in hair and tone than Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus from Terra.

My $0.02:

I believe the 'all Caucasian' thing dates back to the beginning, where, really, all the races came out of "classical European fantasy", followed quickly by "classical European fantasy...IN SPACE". Just not a lot of skin tine variation there.

I wonder if Japanese players paint their skin tones differently, or if they follow the 'norm'.

TO THE INTERNET!

The salamanders color is from the large amount of radiation on noctune mutating the gene seed the glowing red eyes too but the natives are also dark skinned from my understanding of the salamander books

Skin colours across the whole of the Imperium wouldn't be completely mixed 100%, just as it is in our world. This, however, is where the idea of what sorts of planets exist in the galaxy comes into question. What are they like? Are they truly so distinctive, like the chilly, craggy surface of Macragge, or are there a lot of out there just like ours, with highly varied climates, thereby making for highly varied skin colours in response to these climates?

Space Marines are one thing, as they are technically descended from the Emperor, who is depicted as being white/ tan, but Imperial Guard really need a lot of variation, and even just in planetary regiments.

My 177.6 pesos (no idea how much that actually comes out to). Kaesar II

In other news, the airbrushing effect on that librarian is looking very spiffy.

I agree with all the comments above, and as for your question Gits, the Tallarn are SUPPOSED to have Arabic skin tones as well as clothing, I think a lot of people just don't bother.

Also, (not intended to be rude etc etc) but different cultures and different races have slightly different features, ex: black people are commonly portrayed as having flaring nostrils and large lips and small ears (No offense, again). I think that then for modeling the mini's it could be a problem. Also, this factors into the height question, I just think that they can't be bothered to make different heights. I completely agree with the idea that it comes (mostly) from the emprah, also that it was a local UK game, but still, as Gits said they should have changed it. Also, this;

"classical European fantasy", followed quickly by "classical European fantasy...IN SPACE".

I think a large part of the Imp Guard is down to the subconscious of the painter. I suppose if you live in a largely Caucasian community and you yourself are Caucasian, you'll subconsciously end up painting a fair chunk of them the same.

Oh and Gits, your mini is in the post!


Bloody double post!

Very interesting stuff guys. Thanks for adding to the discussion... lots to ponder there.

Well, didn't get any painting done last night. I have today off but have a list as long as your arm of things to do. I will take some time to paint but I suspect the overall progress will me minimal (probably try to get the power/force weapons done so at least the war gear is painted & visible). However far I get I'll post a pic tonight.

Cheers!

g'luck

Gitsplitta wrote:I have today off but have a list as long as your arm of things to do.

Gits doesn't wanna measure by his own arm, because it would mean more work for him

No, it's 'cause it would add to his list

"Transmission: Major Tokagi Kim, Mantis Warrior Flag Ship, Green Menace:"

*crackle*

"Captain Blackhand's Red Knights have been reassigned to duty within our sector. The Mantis Warriors are proud to have our brethren from the far side of the known universe join us in our endless crusade to bring The Emperor's justice to the far corners of space and enforce his will."

*hissss...*

"Kim out."

those=sweet

Awww man, you are such a lucky man Gits!!

-quiet sobbing-

Be a fair amount of work before they're fully complete... I want to get custom bases for them all, need to paint *all* the force weapons & there's a lot of work to be done on the vehicles... but really once the last two bits come in they can be played at any time, so I can start practicing with them.

Nice to see Blackhand's Red Knights are going to stay on dakka and supporting the Mantis Warriors no less, may their enemy's shake in fear.

It's a good thing and I am happy.

So happy.

Glad everyone approves!

Here's my army for Saturday's game. My two old land speeders are standing in for two LS storms. Didn't get much done painting wise today. Hand blended the force axe & painted a couple of bits of war gear so they're identifiable.

Love the group shot the army looks great as do the dynamics of how you set them up

Wow, that is an amazing board those are displayed on!


p.s. its awesome that you've got the red knights as well. You should take a couple close ups so we can better admire the redness.

So glad to see the Red Knights staying within the dakkasphere!

I'll do close-ups of the Red Knights as I finish them. I'll probably start with the low-hanging fruit. The big infantry squads really only need to be re-based and have their power weapons painted.

In the mean time, here's a link to the Red Knight page in BLACKHAND's gallery. He's got pics of most everything there. If you want to see something specific, let me know and I'll take a pic.

I'm pretty happy with this particular build. Remains to be seen if it'll work well or not, but it will take a number of outings to determine that. I think it'll look fine once I finish painting all the elements though.

Awesome, will be fun to see the Knights get done! They going to get the same base style as the MW? Would be a good way to tie them all together.

Ps, i do hope you'll rebase the scouts, the diff. colour is really jumping out.

Quick update:

I drew the battle with the Red Scorpions, though I was pretty happy with the performance over all. Initial gambit of moving the bikes with the homing beacon into position during the scout move, as well as both scout squads in their LS Storms worked well, as did then dropping both the Iron Clad and the Sternguard right where I wanted them (near the bikes). Initial shooting went very well. We only got through turn 3... and my opponent was slowly gaining ground, but I was still happy with the way things were going and had a trick up my sleeve if we'd have been able to play the game to it's finish. I really like the scout bikes & scouts + LS Storms in combination... very effective.

So, while we drew the two major objectives I earned two bonus points for our campaign team... I'll take that with a smile. :-) Fun game, great opponent!

Sorry, no pics. More later, off to dinner with the grandparents!

Hey Gits.
Finally got myself back from China in the early hours, darn about 10-12 pages to catch up on.

I hope this helps with regards to skin colours, maybe not. I took pics from an old wd article. All pics (19 in total) are in my gallery but the damned thing keep putting them in random order, so instead of clogging your thread if you want more info look there. They did a more detailed faces redux article where they did other skin colours in more detail i believe but i cant find it in my magazines or their website.

Anyways hope the pics help:

Thanks Dantay, that looks like it's going to be very helpful. I'll take a look!

Good luck with those red knights Gits, can't wait to see you breaking out your basing skills on them!

Also Danty_XV, which WD is that from?

Hey perplexiti, its in the UK WD issue 350, with the lizardman cover.

UK WD 362 has the monstrous faces masterclass for ogres trolls etc..

Nice to hear of the draw in the Red Scorps game Gits, I never really thought of using scouts that way.. well done!

Oh and good luck with the half finished Knights, I can't wait to see what you do with them.

Thanks Dantay! I'll have to have a look at home, I forget which issue was the last straw for me...

So, I thought I’d go into a little bit more detail about my army list as I know there are at least a few of you that play and might be interested in my tactical experiment.

My 1850 list from last weekend was as follows:

HQ: terminator libby w/ SS, gate, null zone
Elite: Iron Clad in pod w/ HF, assault launchers & 1 HK missile
Elite: 8-man sternguard squad in pod w/full combi-weapons, PF, in pod
Elite: Rifleman in pod
Troop: 5-man tac squad in las/plas razorback, power sword
Troop: 5-man tac squad in las/plas razorback, power sword
Troop: 5-man assault scout squad, combi plas
Troop: 5-man assault scout squad, combi melta
FA: 4-man scout bikes w 3x grenade launchers, homing beacon, power sword
FA: LS Storm w/ MM
FA: LS Storm w/ MM
Hvy: 5-man dev squad w/ 4x ML

This is essentially building and additional 850 pts onto my Adepticon 1000 point army… mainly because I had more practice with that build than any other I’ve ever done, so it seemed like the best starting point. The big problems with that build were a) no assault capability, and b) too many kill points to give away. This 1850 build doesn’t really address either of those issues. The assault scouts might help a little but let’s face it… it’s two groups of 5 scouts… not two groups of Khorne berserkers. And with 17 KP this list is God-awful in KP missions that award victory on total kill points, though it has an advantage in missions that require a percentage of kill points to claim victory (usually over half).

Anyway, I decided that I couldn’t “fix” the problems with my original army without completely changing it’s character, or painting up a bunch of figures and there simply wasn’t’ time for that, so I adopted another approach. I looked at my strategy for Adepticon… crippling strike with the pods on turn 1 with long-range mobile fire power from the razorbacks and rifleman in support, and thought about what I could do to make that more effective. In essence, maximizing my strengths, rather than addressing my weaknesses. So, what were the problems with my Adepticon strategy (i.e. the weaknesses of my strength)? First, it was the fact that the pods scatter, and could not be relied upon to land where I needed them. Second, it was that the troops that podded in couldn’t assault that turn, making them subject to being charged the following turn, so even with an assault oriented thing like the Iron Clad… it never really got to do what it was intended for. Third, there just wasn’t enough in my “alpha-strike” to get the job done. Lastly, once my pods came down, I was effectively reduced to foot-slogging, so while my army was highly mobile in turn one… it had low mobility from that point on *if* I wanted to fire my weapons.

So, having a number of weaknesses to address, and looking at the figures I had readily available, I came up with the following:
- Increase the size of the sternguard squad & give everyone a 5 point combiweapon. At that cost you just can’t argue with it and the increase in numbers and firepower makes the sternguard much “harder”
- Run the terminator epistolary libby with the sternguard. This gives them one good invulnerable if they need it. It also means that he can null zone particularly tough opponents (like termies) or demons and minimize the efficacy of the combi-weapons. His “gate” ability also makes the squad mobile *after* it pods down, so once they accomplish their primary mission, they can gate elsewhere and continue the fight. He also helps if they get into CC and the psychic hood can be very useful.
- The scout bikes give me a homing beacon on the table that can infiltrate and scout move *before* turn one, allowing the pods a precise drop. The 6 missile shots from them *while still being able to move* makes them fairly scary.
- The two scout squads in the LS Storms w/ MM give me two more units that, with the bikes, can infiltrate and scout move (and they, unlike the podded troops, can charge on turn 1). With the combi-weapons of the sergeants, that amounts to a decent amount of fire power delivered on turn 1 (MM+melta or MM+plas) that is highly mobile and scoring.
- The addition of the dozer blades to the razorback’s makes them just a bit more reliably mobile (and it looks neat).
- Added one HK missile to the Iron Clad to increase his initial fire output on drop.
- The dev squad gives me some nice, long range fire power (and once again proved to be very effective), yet is not overly threatening so people don’t make it a priority to destroy.

So, while still having the same basic problems as my Adepticon build, it has some major improvements.
- I can precisely deliver the scout bikers, LS Storms with scouts, my Iron Clad, Sternguard and Librarian to nearly any position on the board in turn 1.
- My army’s mobility is retained beyond turn 1 (until things are destroyed of course)
- I’ve doubled the number of scoring units and they’re all highly mobile (12” movement or better)
- I’ve increased the viability of many units by increasing their size or adding war gear such as power swords (which can make a difference)
- I’ve added a decent amount of long-range fire support in the form of the devs.
- This army takes advantage of the fact that most tables do not have enough terrain (even by GW standards), as that increases the likelyhood that all of it’s elements can come into play appropriately.
- It is often an advantage in objective games to go second. Should my opponent choose to give me first turn, they are giving me quite an advantage as it allows the best use of my alpha-strike tactics.

All for the good… but some issues remain.
- How do I use this army well when I don’t get the first turn? What’s a good alternate strategies for doing something like putting the bikes and speeders into an outflanking maneuver?
- How do I deal with things like massed orks or nids, where getting close to them is tantamount to suicide? Can I use my mobile firepower to play keep-a-way effectively? (don’t know honestly)

So, while I think this list is a decent one and a major step in the right direction… it still has a lot of weaknesses and vulnerabilities. The Iron Clad had a tendency to underperform offensively, but it’s such a scary target that it usually absorbs a tremendous amount of fire power before it gets immobilized (after which it’s generally useless), which makes room for my sternguard to act. My devs continue to perform well and be well worth their points. They took out the Red Scorpion’s dreadnought and 3 terminators before being knocked down to 2 marines by incoming fire (they were still in good order though & would have kept fighting). I think I’ve done a good job balancing the list so that everything is scary to a degree, but nothing (aside perhaps or the Iron Clad) is so scary that it attracts untoward attention. The advantage being that no matter what you shoot at, what’s left can shoot back pretty effectively. One possible variation is to drop the Iron Clad and it’s pod, and instead take a second scout bike unit. That way I could run each bike unit in tandem with a LS Storm & I’d have two homing beacons on the table, allowing some uncertainty as to where the sternguard would actually be dropping. Don’t’ know… have to experiment a bit I guess.

Thanks for suffering the wall-of-text. I realize this isn't really the forum for such discussions but I'd just get shredded over there so I'd rather have any discussion here where the shredding is likely to be a little less vitriolic.
Gits

I think it would be a great idea to replace the Iron Clad with more scout bikes. 1) They look cool and 2) they're fast and useful.

samwellfrm, I was expecting "fast and..." FURIOUS

Actually, maybe against hordes you should try out a few combi-flamers in your squads?
2 in the Sternguards, one in each Scout squad, and in the Tac squads too? It could be pretty terrifying to some (and, honestly, do you expect one combi-plasma to win you the day? Don't get me wrong - I love all plasma weaponry, but I am more a modeller than a player anyway, and I know what "artistic" choices seem bad compared to "gaming" ones)

@samwellfrm: I have enough of the old jet bikes to make up a second squad, so it's in the long-term plan. Might have to move it up in priority.

@Yggs: That would be a good option if I knew I was facing a hoard army. Most of the time I'm seriously playing... it's in a tournament where I don't know who my opponent is going to be. With the current rules slanted so far towards vehicles, it's hard to justify going away from meltas for an all-comers build. A few plasmas salted around are for the occasional terminator and/or light vehicle duty. Their AP 2 and 2 shots at close ranged gives me a of opportunity to kill my own guys with overheating that I would have normally.

That being said... flamers can be very useful. I just started experimenting with Chapterhouse's combi-weapons & modeled my first one that's actually interchangable. As I get more confidence with them I may start experimenting with different applications of the varying options as they'll be quite easy to switch out.

It's worth bearing in mind, also, that 90% of the time you'll be using one of the standard ammos on your Sternguard. CFs fill a niche; you have other things to fill the anti-tank/anti-MC role of melta/plas.

Point well taken. I could cut one plas & melta from the sternguard for flamers. Giving them to the tac sergeants is a matter of points and modeling... and opportunity as usually those tac squads just ride around in their boxes providing supporting fire for the advanced units. I'll have to think about it.

Besides the Kill Point issue, I like the new list. I can see you having a lot of issues with fast close combat armies. You have plenty of little units but no little beef to slow them down. Once they get in close combat with you, you may run into some serious issues. Then again small units means they will charge and kill your unit giving you a turn to fire at them in retaliation. Then again there is no one answer to any army, the armies that win are the ones that do one thing and do it really well. I like what you're working with. I would also stick with the meltas and plasmas. Flamers are great on hordes but useless against nearly every tank. Meltas and Plasmas can kill anything.

You ever think about adding another drop pod unit of some kind?

What you really need to do is take a week off from work and drive down to Indy so we can play test.

I do like the narrative it teams up well with the army cohesion that your working towards (a hit them early, lots of light units and heavy hits with meltas etc)

On top of that there is top notch painting and converting

I feel that there really isn't any room, in 5th edition, to truly maneuver. Increased model count and overall increased speed has made the 4x6 table just too tiny.

Briancj wrote:I feel that there really isn't any room, in 5th edition, to truly maneuver. Increased model count and overall increased speed has made the 4x6 table just too tiny.

i agree very little room to move aroundand with weapon ranges constantly increasing (my railguns for instance) theres not much moving needed in the first place....but back to topic agree that asault armies would be your bane and hordes would just have to pick your targets otherwise the bikes/speeder rush would be devastating and very intimidating from a tau point of view


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Then again i play a very static tau force besides the 3-4 suit teams i run

inmygravenimage wrote:It's worth bearing in mind, also, that 90% of the time you'll be using one of the standard ammos on your Sternguard. CFs fill a niche; you have other things to fill the anti-tank/anti-MC role of melta/plas.

Gitsplitta wrote:Point well taken. I could cut one plas & melta from the sternguard for flamers. Giving them to the tac sergeants is a matter of points and modeling... and opportunity as usually those tac squads just ride around in their boxes providing supporting fire for the advanced units. I'll have to think about it.

Thanks for the support graven, that was what I had in mind : you already have a lot of meltas & lascannons for AT duty, but nearly nothing for anti-horde... 2-4 flamer shots won't save the day, sure, but they might help, with a little "cost" on your AT-capacity.

Also, one thing that you could try is a 10-strong Sternguard squad, that can combat-squad when they get out out their DPs... Which means you could split your melta shots between 2 vehicles, or crack open a transport then incinerate its passengers, or target a DE Ravager AND the large Wyches mob nearby... You "just" have to find points for a further 2 Sternguards...

Gits, I like that list... Like its been said already, there are issues with all lists, my DoA list has the distinct risk that I'm hoping to be able to deep strike within 6 inches of a drop pod that hopefully doesn't mishap, and then I'm stuck out in the open (for the most part).

But I like the idea of the scouts (might have to get some GMS trades for some scout bikers )


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Curses! Foiled by the page rollover again!

Yggdrasil wrote:Thanks for the support graven, that was what I had in mind : you already have a lot of meltas & lascannons for AT duty, but nearly nothing for anti-horde... 2-4 flamer shots won't save the day, sure, but they might help, with a little "cost" on your AT-capacity.

Actually you're forgetting the scout bikes and the devs which between them can deliver 10 frag blasts a turn. Not an overwhelming amount of anti-horde but better than "nearly nothing".

Also, one thing that you could try is a 10-strong Sternguard squad, that can combat-squad when they get out out their DPs... Which means you could split your melta shots between 2 vehicles, or crack open a transport then incinerate its passengers, or target a DE Ravager AND the large Wyches mob nearby... You "just" have to find points for a further 2 Sternguards...

Interesting idea, but I wasn't aware that you could do that. You aren't allowed to carry more than one squad in a transport and a combat squadded unit counts as two separate squads. Can you declare them combat squadded after they've left the transport? I'm not too sure about that.

Alfndrate wrote:Gits, I like that list... Like its been said already, there are issues with all lists, my DoA list has the distinct risk that I'm hoping to be able to deep strike within 6 inches of a drop pod that hopefully doesn't mishap, and then I'm stuck out in the open (for the most part). But I like the idea of the scouts (might have to get some GMS trades for some scout bikers )

I really like mine. I mean more than half of it for me is the modeling and painting of course... but for once the figures I like are actually useful!! Not sure how to take that really...

Curses! Foiled by the page rollover again!

You and me both brother. 180 pages though.... do I get a prize??

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I've toyed with a couple of variants to address some of the points that Yggs made as well as some feedback I've gotten from other quarters and the fact that offensively, the Iron Clad has never accomplished much of anything in all the times I've played this list.

Option 1 removes the Iron Clad and one of the scout units + it's LS Storm and adds a second bike unit and a second dev unit. So while I give up the fear factor of the Iron Clad & a highly mobile scoring unit w/ a couple of meltas, I gain 10 more ML shots per turn, 6 of which are highly mobile. That's 20 ML shots total.

Option 2 removes the same, plus changes the terminator libby to a normal libby, adds a second bike squad *and* two vindicators. So I still get the 6, highly mobile missile shots as well as two AV-13, S10 pie plates that can move and fire. My assault elements then become two bike squads, one scout squad in LS Storm and the pod full of sternguard + libby, so a bit weaker but still threatening. The support element however gets much stronger with the addition of the vindis (two vindicators, two razorbacks, the rifleman & the devastators). This should be enough template action (2 pie plates, 16 small blast) to keep a hoard at bay, and the pie plates give me some kind of attack vs. death star units such as nob bikers, khorne riders or paladins.

I like Option 2 best out of all 3 versions (counting my current one) as it seems to be the most complete. The two elements are well balanced and there are a lot of "equal threats" throughout. If I can scavenge another 15 points out of it, I'll upgrade one of the MLs in the dev squad to a las cannon... but other than that I think it's pretty darn good. I still have the outflanking option for all of the scout elements too, and the sternguard can always start the game deployed & take advantage of their long ranged ammo. So it seems both versatile and flexible. Be a bit of painting to get from here to there, but I'm OK with that.

Thoughts?

I like the terminator libby, if nothing more than for his survivability against attacks that will shred his power armor version. I do like the Vindicators too though... :(

Gitsplitta wrote:
Interesting idea, but I wasn't aware that you could do that. You aren't allowed to carry more than one squad in a transport and a combat squadded unit counts as two separate squads. Can you declare them combat squadded after they've left the transport? I'm not too sure about that.

Yeah you can. It's right there in the combat squad rule.

Might want to check that again MSP. They recently clarified on the DA FAQ I know for sure, I assume to bring it in line with other books.
From the FAQ:
Q: If I split a Space Marine squad into two combat squads,
can both embark into or be deployed in the same
dedicated transport? (p23)
A: No. They are no longer the same unit and a transport
vehicle can only carry a single infantry squad.

Both options sound good, I personally like the one you had listed as Option 1, but that is just because i am a big fan of the missile launcher. Especially with 20 total, you could do some heavy damage on basically anything-a LR or another 14AV, plus you can switch to frag for crowd control. The thing i didn't like about Option 2 was the vindicators, but that is just me, never been a huge fan. I see the value they bring and how they can with that S10 blast, i just dont like the range, but they are very good at taking out those AV14 as you stated(this has happened to my LR many a time). So for me it all comes down to your play style.

Yeah, well... it's a trade off. The terminator libby can actually engage with confidence, the power armored libby is there strictly as a support element for his psychic abilities. The sternguard is a shooting unit however, so if he runs with them, he might never get into hand-to-hand. And the whole point of his "gate" is to be able to keep them shooting. Now... he's cheap, and without the loss of terminator armor there is no second vindicator. I won't run just one vindi as they're too easy to pop by themselves and the scatter makes one shot far from reliable. A pair however, is an entirely different story.

I will miss fielding the terminator libby though... as I hope to make it a truly special figure.

@dajobe: Well, to be honest, I'm not a big vindicator fan either... but I think most people make the mistake of running them singly where they're too easy to kill and their scatter makes them unreliable as weapons. I'm thinking that running a pair together with the razorbacks in support might increase their utility as well as giving me a way to deal with units that I currently have no answer for (death stars). It will also become a major focus for my opponent, which should take pressure off of my assault elements. That's the theory anyway.

But even though the Sternguard are a shooting unit, they will draw fire, especially on turns before you pop their combi weapons. So adding a 2 wound model with a 2+/3++ gives you a nice addition for wound allocation (especially if you're prone to rolling lots of 2s, but not lots of 1s (I'm the opposite sadly).

Brb, gotta go check army builder... I have an idea

I run a normal libby as well, and you are correct, scary units such as vindicators, MC's, or anything else pretty good are excellent at drawing fire that would have otherwise been given to other parts of my army. Thats why in a 2000+ point game, i death star my land raider, it usually eats up a ton of shots and doesnt die unless i am facing some tau with all of their cursed rail cannons, or some of the other random s9 and s10 weapons which there are generally few of on the field


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im in your boat alfrndate, i role 1's like its my job. but if its not a 1, its usually a 456

whalemusic360 wrote:Might want to check that again MSP. They recently clarified on the DA FAQ I know for sure, I assume to bring it in line with other books.
From the FAQ:
Q: If I split a Space Marine squad into two combat squads,
can both embark into or be deployed in the same
dedicated transport? (p23)
A: No. They are no longer the same unit and a transport
vehicle can only carry a single infantry squad.

Read your codex.

oh yeah, i forgot to comment on that, i really dont think that you can split to combat squad and put both in drop pod(can you?). because that has to be declared at beginning of game and a drop pod can only hold 1 squad.
correct me if im wrong.

Space Marines FAQ Ver. 1.1 wrote:Q: If I split a Space Marine squad into two combat squads,
can both embark into or be deployed in the same
dedicated transport? (p23)
A: No. They are no longer the same unit and a transport
vehicle can only carry a single infantry squad.

You can't combat squad them and place them in the same transport, BUT under the combat squad rules on page 51 it says that you can combat squad them when they disembark from a drop pod


ALSO: I'm currently trying to fit vindicators + Devs + Terminator Libby into the same list (need to fill about a hundred points lol).

You can. It's literally right there in the rule. Page 51.

I just said that...

FAQ overrules codex. I'm at work, so dont have the book with me

yeah, dont have my rules on me, so...sorry for partyin


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also, i will do that from now on, because that is sweet

Alf, you posted about 20 seconds before I did. :p

Whale, no. That FAQ is about having two squads in a transport, like a Rhino or Land Raider. There are never two units in the Drop Pod - the two halves separate after disembarking.

I've searched the "you make da call" forum and didn't find anything so I asked... we'll see what people come up with. The reason I'm skeptical MSP is that I often play guys who are really, really good (not just locally) and I've never seen anyone do it. You'd have thought *someone* would have done it once in a game somewhere along the line if it were legal... there are just too many advantages to the tactic no to. But, we'll see.

Guess that makes sense, there's no other way to deploy both halves at the same time really.

Essentially because you can't re-embark into a Drop Pod where you can a Rhino or Land Raider.

I believe the Combat Squadding with the Drop Pod is a specific situation which led to confusion in other situations. I also happen to have my codex on me.

'The one exception to this is a unit that arrives by Drop Pod. The player can choose to split such a unit into combat squads when it disembarks from the Drop Pod.'

So far, the early results say "yes"... but it's only for drop pods, not other transports. Hmmmm.... that does change things a bit. I could, for example... segregate my combimeltas and my combiflamers and plasmas... so the melta squad could crack open the vehicle and the plas/flamer squad could clean up the squishy bits inside (as Yggs suggested). Hmmmm....

really wish i had my rulebook...

Gitsplitta wrote:So far, the early results say "yes"... but it's only for drop pods, not other transports. Hmmmm.... that does change things a bit. I could, for example... segregate my combimeltas and my combiflamers and plasmas... so the melta squad could crack open the vehicle and the plas/flamer squad could clean up the squishy bits inside (as Yggs suggested). Hmmmm....

The reason why you didn't see anything in YMDC is that it's explicitly written out in the codex - there's nothing to question, really.

Yeah. it only works in Drop Pods. I've seen people split them just that way.

Gits, I've been thinking about your 2 options (and some of the discussion surrounding it... I need to double check this against the codex (but my Army Builder hasn't been wrong before on C:SM).

HQ: Terminator Libby w/SS, Gate, Null Zone
Elite: 10 Man Sternguard Squad w/ Full Combi-Melta and Combi plas (5 each), Power Fist (Also you can still attach the librarian to this, because standard SM drop pods can carry 12 models)
Elite: Rifleman Dread in pod
Troop: 5 Man Tac Squad w/Razorback las/plas, Power Sword
Troop: 5 Man Tac Squad w/Razorback las/plas, Power Sword
Troop: 5 Man Scout Squad, Combi-Weapon (I marked plas, but melta is the same)
FA: 4 Man Scout Bikes w/ 3 grenade launchers, locator beacon, power sword
FA: LS Storm w/MM
Heavy: 5 Man Dev Squad w/ 4 ML
Heavy: Vindicator
Heavy: Vindicator

There are enough points that you could still drop in an Iron clad (but the rifleman wouldn't be able to drop in)

Or you could split the meltas up so you could potentially take out two targets on the drop... even deploying the squads off of different parts of the pod to increase your threat range.

Holy crap this has potential...

Thanks for pointing this out Yggs and MGS... I'd totally missed that.

The joys of drop podding. Sternguard are nasty as they can be tailored for so many different roles and can work in harmony with eachother. Worse still, with Kantor they count as scoring units so can threaten objectives.

Truly the nastiest unit is C:SM

And they're pretty! (most important part)

OK, so now I have to figure out how to work two more sternguard into my list. Not easy... they're pricey.

If you take the list I have above, you can add in another LS storm with MM and an additional scout squad (sadly no combi-weapon) and have 1850 points on the nose

Edit (More Tinkerings): OR you can ignore the second storm and scout squad and take 2 Land speeders with multi-meltas and heavy flamers

Remember you need to add 15 points for a homing beacon on the scout bike srg (absolute must)... a power weapon & melta bomb would also increase the utility of that squad. You could drop the combi-weapon for the scout srg (in the LSS) and just give him a melta bomb, they way if they had the opportunity for a turn 1 charge into a vehicle they would stand a good chance of doing something. Saves 5 pts!