Hey everyone, I figured it would be a good idea to collect all the legitimate questions you find in the new Chaos Daemons codex together into one thread. so they can be sent to tournament organizers and/or GW for use in making their FAQs.

So if you see arguments/discussions about rules questions in other threads, then please post the pertinent question (along with any relevant rules information) into this this thread.

But most importantly: PLEASE DO NOT ACTUALLY DISCUSS/ARGUE THE RULES IN THIS THREAD. If you think a particular question has an easy answer that was missed by the person adding it into the thread, then posting about it ONCE is fine (and appreciated), but please do not engage in a back and forth discussion about a rule...start another thread on the topic if you need to do that.


Thanks!


I'll get the ball rolling with some of the questions I've seen posted in his forum so far:


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Army Special Rules
• Can Feel No Pain be used against wounds caused by Daemonic Instability?
• Is a Chaos Space Marine unit with the Daemon special rule and the suitable Mark of one of the 4 gods considered "Daemons of the same alignment" for the purpose of attaching Chaos Daemon Independent Characters? e.g, could a Herald of Slaanesh join a unit of Warp Talons with the Mark of Slaanesh?
• If 'Punished by the Gods' manages to kill a character that is riding on a Burning Chariot of Tzeentch or Seeker/Exalted Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh is the Chariot also removed? If not, can another Herald (with the appropriate dedication) now embark onto the rider-less chariot?
• Do you decide which type of unit is arriving via 'Summoned From the Warp' before or after rolling to see how many models are in the unit?
• Can any of the Warp Storm results that inflict hits (Rot, Glorious Rot, etc) cause damage to a zooming Flyer or swooping Monstrous Creature?
• When resolving the Warp Storm table results that attack every unengaged enemy unit, do you roll for enemy units that are embarked on vehicles or in enclosed buildings? If yes, how exactly do you resolve the results that involve placing a blast directly over one model in the affected unit?
• Does the 'Daemonic Possession' Warp Storm result affect enemy psykers that are currently embarked on vehicles or in enclosed buildings? If so, exactly where is the created Herald placed in these cases?
• Does the 'Daemonic Possession' Warp Storm result affect enemy psykers that are also swooping Monstrous Creatures?


Weapons, Wargear & Gifts
• If a model that has a Mutating Warpblade kills an enemy Character or Monstrous Creature with a ranged attack, does the 'Warp Mutation' rule still apply? Or is it only from combat attacks made using the Warpblade (like the Staff of Change)?
• For weapons that trigger an ability when the bearer kills a specific model (such as a Staff of Change or Mutating Warpblade), how do you determine who actually killed the enemy model if several different models are all striking at the same Initiative step when the enemy model is killed?
• If Necron Mindshackle Scarabs force a character a model with a Mutating Warpblade to kill himself, does the Warp Mutation special rule still trigger (as an enemy character has not technically been slain)?
• If Necron Mindshackle Scarabs force a model with Burning Blood to cause unsaved wounds on himself, who, if anyone do the D3 Burning Blood hits get applied onto?
• If a weapon inflicts Instant Death on a 'to wound' roll of 6 (like the Axe of Khorne, for example), does the attacking model still need to have the possibility of wounding the target in order to benefit from this ability? For example, say a S4 model is attacking a T8 opponent, does he still inflict Instant Death on rolls of '6'?
• What happens if the Doomstone lowers St. Celestine's Ld down to '0'? If she resurrects does she immediately die again because she still has a Ld of '0', or does she ignore the effects of the Doomstone when she returns?
• Can an Icon of Chaos be used to reduce (or eliminate) scatter on the same turn the unit arrives from reserve? In other words, if unit A Deep Strikes onto the table and in the same turn unit B Deep Strikes within 6" of unit A (and meets all the necessary criteria) does unit B benefit from unit A's Icon to reduce or eliminate their scatter?
• Do you roll to see if a Portalglyph creates a new unit at the end of the same Movement phase that it is placed?
• Do you declare which type of Daemons are being created by a Portalglyph before or after rolling the D6 to see how many models are in the arriving unit?
• How tall roughly should the Portalglyph have to be modeled?
• Does the Blade of Blood still grant the bearer 'Rampage' even if a different weapon is used to attack in that round of combat?
• If a Tzeentch Herald on a Chariot has the Warp Tether reward, and is killed in close combat when the Chariot is immobilized, what happens? Is the immobilize rule ignored the turn the Chariot arrives from reserve? Or does the Herald have to walk back onto the table off the Chariot? Or are both the Herald and the Chariot just stuck in Reserve for the rest of the game?
• When a model suffers an unsaved wound from a Witstealer Sword/Plague Flail and then suffers an additional unsaved wound from failing its Initiative/Toughness test (respectively), does the model then have to take a further Initiative/Toughness test, and so on? Or does each model only suffer a maximum of one 'bonus' wound this way for each 'standard' wound inflicted?
• If a model already has a 3+ armor save and rolls the 'Unbreakable Hide' Greater Reward, does this count as a duplicate result (meaning it must be re-rolled) or not?


Psychic Powers
• Is the Feel No Pain +1 bonus provided by Warpflame cumulative throughout the course of a game? For example, can a unit that starts the game with Feel No Pain (5+) have it improved up to (3+) after passing its Toughness test against Warpflame wounds in two separate shooting phases? If so, can a unit have its Feel No Pain improved to a (1+) and does this mean it automatically passes its Feel No Pain rolls?
• If a unit joined by Mad Dok Grotsnik (who has Dok's Tools that grants the unit Feel No Pain 5+) passes a toughness test for Warpflame, does their FNP improve to 4+? If Grotsnik later leaves the unit, does their FNP revert back to being a 6+, or does the unit lose FNP all together and Grotsnik keep the FNP 4+ to pass onto the next unit he joins?
• Does the +1 Strength bonus from the Exalted Locus of Conjuration apply to ancillary hits caused by their psychic powers, such as the bonus Soul Blaze hits or hits caused by a vehicle they manage to explode?
• What happens if a multi-wound model fails its Ld test for Pavane of Slaanesh or its Toughness test for Rancid Visitations, but is not slain (only suffers one wound or that wound is ignored due to Feel No Pain, etc)? Do you keep making further tests against the same model?
• What happens when a Cacophonic Choir 2D6-Ld roll results in a negative number?


HQ
• Are the Masque and the Blue Scribes really not supposed to be considered Heralds (for the purpose of taking up to 4 Heralds as a single HQ choice)?
• Is Fateweaver considered to be 1 or 2 psykers for things like the Culexus Assassin? If a special rule affects psykers does this affect Fateweaver twice (such as having to pass two Ld tests against a Crucible of Malediction that is activated within range, for example)?
• Does Fateweaver's Staff of Tomorrow allow him to re-roll a D6 that an opponent originally rolled?
• Can Fateweaver's Staff of Tomorrow be used to re-roll either the random game length roll or the Night Fighting rolls on turns 5+? If so, does it matter which player originally makes the roll (i.e. if the opponent happened to roll the random game length die, can it still be re-rolled)?
• When the Masque performs the Dance of Caging, should you roll a single D3 and apply that to all moves the target unit tries to make, or roll a separate D3 each time the unit tries to move?
• Should the Masque's Dance of Caging movement limitation apply to a Bike/Jetbike unit's Turbo-boost movement and/or the Thrust Move for a Jet Pak unit?


Troops
• When a unit of Pink Horrors is resolving a psychic shooting attack, does every model in the unit with the 'Brotherhood of Sorcerers' special rule count as firing a weapon? Or does the firing player pick one such model in the unit to count as 'firing' that psychic shooting attack (thereby allowing the possibility for an Iridescent Horror in the unit with a ranged attack via a Lessser/Greater Reward to use it at the same time the unit uses its psychic shooting attack)?


Elites
• Is the -1 Ld penalty for a Fiend's 'Disruptive Song' cumulative? If so, is this calculated per Fiend model or per unit? For example, if a psyker is within 12" of 4 Fiend models (all part of the same unit) would he have a -4 Ld penalty? Or if the psyker was within 12" of two Fiend units, would he have a -2 Ld penalty (regardless of how many Fiend models from each unit were within 12")?


Fast Attack
• Does a Screamer's Lamprey Bite replace all bonus attacks the model has as (such as the +1 attack for charging, for example), or just its base attacks?
• Are cover saves allowed from a Screamer's Slashing Attack and if so, is the determination of whether or not a model is in cover calculated from the final position of the Screamers similar to a shooting attack?


Heavy Support
• Does the Burning Chariot of Tzeentch really need to remain stationary to fire the Blue or Pink Fire of Tzeentch as non-snap shots (as they are a Heavy weapon and the Exalted Flamer is an embarked Infantry model)?


Misc
• (basic rulebook question) What happens in close combat if a model has an Initiative of 0 (as can happen due to a Fiend's 'Soporific Musk', for example)? Do they not make an Initiative Step Pile-in and not attack?
• (basic rulebook question) When a model has a characteristic lowered to 0 via modifiers, does it now automatically fail a characteristic test (on that characteristic), or does this rule only apply to models that naturally have a '0' or '-' characteristic (not including any modifiers)?
• (basic rulebook question) When a unit containing one or more psykers with randomly generated psychic powers is created mid-game (such as Pink Horrors via the 'Summoned From the Warp' special rule or from a Portalglyph) do you generate powers for the unit at that point during the game, or does the unit just not have any psychic powers?
• (basic rulebook question) When a unit containing one or more psykers is created mid-turn (such as Pink Horrors via the 'Summoned From the Warp' special rule or from a Portalglyph) do they immediately generate their warp charge, or do they have to wait for the start of the next turn to do so?

What happens when a model's Initiative would be modified to '0' or less (e.g, via the Fiends' Soporific Musk)?

 Janthkin wrote:
What happens when a model's Initiative would be modified to '0' or less (e.g, via the Fiends' Soporific Musk)?

I'm assuming that is a question for close combat specifically? Because Characteristic tests (at least) say that they fail if the model has a '0' value. And the basic characteristic rules don't allow characteristics below 0, so I don't think that is a question.

But being in combat with an Initiative of 0 is definitely a good one, I think.

 yakface wrote:

 Janthkin wrote:
What happens when a model's Initiative would be modified to '0' or less (e.g, via the Fiends' Soporific Musk)?

I'm assuming that is a question for close combat specifically? Because Characteristic tests (at least) say that they fail if the model has a '0' value. And the basic characteristic rules don't allow characteristics below 0, so I don't think that is a question.

But being in combat with an Initiative of 0 is definitely a good one, I think.

See also the Witstealer sword, which forces Init tests to avoid bonus wounds.

Another fun artifact: the combat rules only allow for fighting between I10 and I1 (p.22); if you can get reduced to I0, I don't think you get to fight.

 Janthkin wrote:
See also the Witstealer sword, which forces Init tests to avoid bonus wounds.

Another fun artifact: the combat rules only allow for fighting between I10 and I1 (p.22); if you can get reduced to I0, I don't think you get to fight.

Agreed about combat for sure. I added that to the first post collection.

I think the characteristic test question is covered on pg 7 of the rulebook though (it says 0 characteristics auto-fail characteristic tests).

When the Masque performs the Dance of Caging, should you roll a single D3 and apply that to all moves the target unit tries to make, or roll a separate D3 each time the unit tries to move?

Is it intended that Bikes/Jetbikes can turbo-boost at full speed while affected by the Masque's Dance of Caging?

Is a Chaos Space Marine unit with the Daemon special rule and the suitable Mark of one of the 4 gods considered "Daemons of the same alignment" for the purpose of attaching Chaos Daemon Independent Characters? e.g, could a Herald of Slaanesh join a unit of Warp Talons with the Mark of Slaanesh?

If a character with a Mutating Warpblade is affected by a Necron model's Mind Shackle Scarabs and slays itself can it transform into a Chaos Spawn?

 Drunkspleen wrote:

If a character with a Mutating Warpblade is affected by a Necron model's Mind Shackle Scarabs and slays itself can it transform into a Chaos Spawn?

Great questions overall!

Can I ask why this one is even debatable (can you give me more info on why anyone would think it wouldn't work)?

Clarification underlined, just in case:

 yakface wrote:
• Does the Burning Chariot of Tzeentch really need to remain stationary to fire the Blue or Pink Fire of Tzeentch as non-snap shots (since the weapons are carried by an Infantry model, and they are a Heavy weapon)?

 yakface wrote:

 Drunkspleen wrote:

If a character with a Mutating Warpblade is affected by a Necron model's Mind Shackle Scarabs and slays itself can it transform into a Chaos Spawn?

Great questions overall!

Can I ask why this one is even debatable (can you give me more info on why anyone would think it wouldn't work)?

The issue at hand is the weapon says "If the bearer slays an enemy Character..." I feel the way it's written does give a clear way to resolve it given he is not actually an enemy model, however I also feel it's possible that the intention is for us to treat friendly units as enemies when striking with MSS or utilizing associated special rules.

I can't think of any other weapon attached special rules that specify that they only apply to enemies in this way, and as such I think it's the first time the situation has been encountered, although I could be wrong.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

The issue at hand is the weapon says "If the bearer slays an enemy Character..." I feel the way it's written does give a clear way to resolve it given he is not actually an enemy model, however I also feel it's possible that the intention is for us to treat friendly units as enemies when striking with MSS or utilizing associated special rules.

I can't think of any other weapon attached special rules that specify that they only apply to enemies in this way, and as such I think it's the first time the situation has been encountered, although I could be wrong.

Yep, that makes sense to me now. It also doesn't apply to Staff of Change either (as I thought it would) as that one doesn't mention 'enemy' in its rule.

The one that some people have been contesting - that Banners that allow a unit deepstriking within 6" of it to not have to scatter...it does not specifically state if the banner can come in the same turn it is used (DS a unit with the Banner, roll scatter, place - and then place all other similar god units within six that came in this turn from reserves)...this has lead to some interesting arguments.

As for the FnP from the ability - it states that it increases FnP by +1 if the unit already has the rule - it does not designate otherwise. I never thought about it becomming 1+

What happens if you roll for a 3+ save as a greater gift on a model that already has a 3+ save?

Are Deamons Heralds limited to 1 per HQ when taken has allies by CSM?

Or can be taken up to 4 Per Primary Detachment( because it doesn't say that it is a Deamon Primary detachment).

If a bloodthirster is carrying the blade of blood does he get rampage even if he attacks with another weapon? blade of blood says: "The bearer of the blade gains rampager(+D3 attacks)" it doesn't actually specify you need to attack with it.

Can Plague flies nominate their hammer of wrath attack to be their instakill attack with the venom stinger upgrade? Also do hammer of wrath attacks benefit from poisoned weapons?

What is the vertical profile of the Portaglyph? The same as a 3" blast template?

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Are Deamons Heralds limited to 1 per HQ when taken has allies by CSM?

Or can be taken up to 4 Per Primary Detachment( because it doesn't say that it is a Deamon Primary detachment).

So you're literally asking if you can take Heralds as part of your primary detachment when your primary detachment is chosen from a codex that is not the Daemons codex?

No offense intended, but that is pretty much a complete nonsense question.

(along the same lines of my earlier Mutating Warpblade question, "Burning Blood: Whenever the Daemon suffers an unsaved Wound in close combat, the enemy unit that caused the Wound...")
If a model is forced to attack a friendly unit with the Burning Blood Daemonic Reward and inflicts a wound does the attacking model suffer the retaliatory hits?

Can Cleaving Strike attacks benefit from strength bonuses on weapons, or do you just use twice the Daemon's Strength characteristic to resolve them without further modifiers?

A number of rules have the potential to spawn new Pink Horror units. Can such units generate a psychic power when they are created despite the fact generating psychic powers is normally done prior to deployment?

What happens to a unit of Daemons created through a Portalglyph if they cannot disembark due to impassable terrain and/or enemy models surrounding the marker?

edit: Removing the Icon question since it's already covered

 yakface wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Are Deamons Heralds limited to 1 per HQ when taken has allies by CSM?

Or can be taken up to 4 Per Primary Detachment( because it doesn't say that it is a Deamon Primary detachment).

So you're literally asking if you can take Heralds as part of your primary detachment when your primary detachment is chosen from codex that is not the Daemons codex?

No offense intended, but that is pretty much a complete nonsense question.

That is not what he is asking - this is actually in YMDC - I can't find the list. Yes - this needs an FAQ to be ABSOLUTELY postive-

What he is wanting to know is: How many Heralds can you take in the allied HQ slot when you take Chaos Deamons as allies.

General understanding is 1 per slot as allies, 4 as a single choice, but you can only take 4 heralds max (stil need offical FAQ)

Can horrors or any demon use both codex and BRB powers at the same time. For instant a mastery level 3 herald switch out one power for prescience and keep the codex ones as well?

 Centurian99 wrote:
What happens if you roll for a 3+ save as a greater gift on a model that already has a 3+ save?

To be more specific: What happens if you roll "unbreakable hide" on a model that already has a 3+ save, through Warp Forged Armor.

P66 - "Each reward . . . can only be taken once per model (even if the reward is included in the model's army list entry)."
P66 - "Unbreakable Hide: The Daemon has an armour save of 3+."
P63 - "Warp-Forged Armour - This grants an armour save of 3+."

chewielight wrote:
Can horrors or any demon use both codex and BRB powers at the same time. For instant a mastery level 3 herald switch out one power for prescience and keep the codex ones as well?

Yes, C:CD psykers may take up to half (rounded up) from the codex. The rest come from BRB as described (prescience for Tzeentch Herald, etc.)

chewielight wrote:
Can horrors or any demon use both codex and BRB powers at the same time. For instant a mastery level 3 herald switch out one power for prescience and keep the codex ones as well?

They must be able to, in the Daemons codex it clearly says that only "up to half" of a models powers can come from the god specific disciplines.

also, the core rules tell you "Note that second and subsequent psychic powers do not have to be generated from the same psychic discipline as the Psyker's first power."

 Amaraxis wrote:

That is not what he is asking - this is actually in YMDC - I can't find the list. Yes - this needs an FAQ to be ABSOLUTELY postive-

What he is wanting to know is: How many Heralds can you take in the allied HQ slot when you take Chaos Deamons as allies.

General understanding is 1 per slot as allies, 4 as a single choice, but you can only take 4 heralds max (stil need offical FAQ)

I don't want to turn this into a discussion, so I won't be answering any reply you give on the subject, but that *IS* what he is saying.

The codex is explicit that the 4 Heralds per HQ choice is for your Primary Detachment only. So if Daemons are taken as an allied detachment there is no logical way that an allied HQ slot can contain more than a single Herald.

Therefore, the only possible argument (the one he is making) is that since the Daemon codex doesn't specify in that rule that the 4-for-1 rule applies only to Primary Detachments taken from Chaos Daemons, then by the RAW you're allowed to take 4-for-1 Heralds as part of your Primary detachment...so taking Imperial Guard as your primary detachment, for example, and then using one of those two HQ choices to take up to 4 Heralds...so the Heralds are literally part of your Primary IG Detachment.

It is frankly an absurd question that ignores quite a few of the basic structural mechanisms of constructing an army. There is literally no way that a tournament organizer would ever even consider this answering this question any other way than the way the rules plainly state, so it is pointless to add as a question to a FAQ.

You know I have never really thought about this before because Daemons weren't psykers before and the only other Army that had chariots were Necrons.

If a Herald on a Chariot casts a Nova or Beam shooting attack is the distanced measured from the base of the chariot like other area of effect rules, i.e. banners and invul bubbles?

Normally shooting attacks are measured from the weapon but in this case the pkykers is the weapon but on a chariot.

From a game I played against them the other day.

The roll on the Warp Storm chart that causes the (don't know the real name) thing that is a lot like the stormlords lightning thing(?), how does this interact with flyers and FMC's?

Note. Someone more involved in the inner workings of the rules probably has a simple answer for this one, also if anyone wishes to edit my question with the actual names of the rules, and word it better once the rules names are in place, feel free to do so, so as that if it does require FAQing, it can just be copy and pasted.

40k-noob wrote:
You know I have never really thought about this before because Daemons weren't psykers before and the only other Army that had chariots were Necrons.

If a Herald on a Chariot casts a Nova or Beam shooting attack is the distanced measured from the base of the chariot like other area of effect rules, i.e. banners and invul bubbles?

Normally shooting attacks are measured from the weapon but in this case the pkykers is the weapon but on a chariot.

Passenger weapons are measured from the firepoint, which for an open topped vehicle is anywhere on the hull. So you'd measure from somewhere on the hull. Fun times now is defining where the hull is.

Hull is clearly defined in the rulebook.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Hull is clearly defined in the rulebook.

Yeah, but chariots are rough. Is the creature pulling the chariot part of the hull? If not, it's not valid to shoot at it, either.

Are the Screamers pulling the chariot hull? I can't actually check what the definition of hull is at the moment, but when it's put like that it starts looking like a stretch.

Also,

Does an Aegis Defense Line grant a cover save to the SoulGrinder

Eldercaveman wrote:
Also,

Does an Aegis Defense Line grant a cover save to the SoulGrinder

How long is a piece of string?

This, like your question is impossible to answer correctly without seeing the situation.

If the SoulGrinder is 25% or more obscured by the ADL then it gets a cover save, if it is not 25% or more obscured by the ADL then it does not get a cover save.

Check if any of the firing models can not see 75.01% of it, if they can not then it will get a cover save, just like any other model.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Also,

Does an Aegis Defense Line grant a cover save to the SoulGrinder

How long is a piece of string?

This, like your question is impossible to answer correctly without seeing the situation.

If the SoulGrinder is 25% or more obscured by the ADL then it gets a cover save, if it is not 25% or more obscured by the ADL then it does not get a cover save.

Check if any of the firing models can not see 75.01% of it, if they can not then it will get a cover save, just like any other model.

Obviously as stated in the OP I'm not going to begin a discussion on this, as they are discussions taking place elsewhere, but just to clarify my point, if you measure the height of the soulgrinder, 25% of the model is covered by the aegis, however the soulgrinder has about 90% of ... hmmm.... 'plastic' (for want of a better word) which is not in it's legs.

In which case it's not really a Daemon specific FAQ. It's a BRB FAQ as to whether they mean 25% of height, width, weight, mass, facing area, volume or some other metric you'd like to argue. The most obvious one that works consistently is facing area, which unfortunately suffers from being nigh impossible to calculate on the fly without detracting from the game.

Warp storm: does the demon player place all blasts, even those that hit his own units? Do all barrage blasts count as indirect shots (as there is no firer, per se, nor is there a BS involved) and thus always scatter the full amount, or can they actually "hit?"

abbazabba1920 wrote:
Warp storm: does the demon player place all blasts, even those that hit his own units? Do all barrage blasts count as indirect shots (as there is no firer, per se, nor is there a BS involved) and thus always scatter the full amount, or can they actually "hit?"

Just want to point out a few things regarding these questions:

1) The Warp Storm rules are written from the point of view of the Daemon player, so there's no suggestion that anyone besides the Daemon player is involved with resolving their effects. The results that include a blast marker say that you 'place it centered directly over any model in the unit', so its pretty clear that you're able to put it over the least deadly spot for you.

2) The scatter rules (in the front of the rulebook) actually specify that a 'hit' is always a hit and that otherwise they scatter 2D6". As you point out, since there's no firer's BS, there's no BS to deduct.


So I think, the rules are pretty crystal clear on all those points.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

Can Cleaving Strike attacks benefit from strength bonuses on weapons, or do you just use twice the Daemon's Strength characteristic to resolve them without further modifiers?

Just wondering why exactly this situation is ambiguous given the normal rules for multiple modifiers?

magicafiend wrote:

Can Plague flies nominate their hammer of wrath attack to be their instakill attack with the venom stinger upgrade? Also do hammer of wrath attacks benefit from poisoned weapons?

FYI, I think these are both pretty clearly covered by GW's rulebook FAQ.

 yakface wrote:

 Drunkspleen wrote:

Can Cleaving Strike attacks benefit from strength bonuses on weapons, or do you just use twice the Daemon's Strength characteristic to resolve them without further modifiers?

Just wondering why exactly this situation is ambiguous given the normal rules for multiple modifiers?

It specifically says "the attack is resolved at double the model's Strength Characteristic" (or something to that effect).

If I was going to play that RAW, I would say, it gives you a specific value to resolve at so you use that value in resolving the attack, regardless of how your weapons might modify your strength.

But I get the feeling that might not be RAI.

Why are Chaos Furies 35pts for 5 (7 points each) and then 6 pts each for 1-15 more.

They are the only unit (unless I missed one) where the base group is more expensive than the expansion.

"For weapons that trigger an ability when the bearer kills a specific model (such as a Staff of Change or Mutating Warpblade), how do you determine who actually killed the enemy model if several different models are all striking at the same Initiative step when the enemy model is killed?
"

As they have different rules, and wound allocation is one wound at a time from each wound group *separated by different rules*, this one is fairly obvious, no?

If you have 3 wounds from the blade, and 8 other identical wounds, then you choose to either resolve the blade wounds first or the other wounds first. You can then determine, with 100% precision, what caused what models death

Scrolls of Sorcery: (pg. 43 Codex Daemons)
When manifesting powers with The Blue Scribes, it says to choose a psychic discipline at the start of each friendly turn. No problem there, but when i roll a D6 and get a wichfire power, so is the power resolved immediately, or in the shooting phase? It only says that it can be automatically manifested without a psychic test. It does not state the phase in which the power happens.

Can models with Dæmonic Instability go to ground?

When using the Portalglyph or results on Warp Storm Table used to create Horrors or Herald of Tzeentch, how are the psychic powers generated? Non-upgraded Heralds and Horrors are Psykers with Mastery Level 1.

 Kingsley wrote:
Can models with Dæmonic Instability go to ground?

They arent fearless, so why couldnt they?

masquerade81 wrote:
Scrolls of Sorcery: (pg. 43 Codex Daemons)
When manifesting powers with The Blue Scribes, it says to choose a psychic discipline at the start of each friendly turn. No problem there, but when i roll a D6 and get a wichfire power, so is the power resolved immediately, or in the shooting phase? It only says that it can be automatically manifested without a psychic test. It does not state the phase in which the power happens.

No question here. You generate the power at the start of the turn; you can use the power, or not, at your choice & at the appropriate time (as nothing in the wording changes the timing of use of psychic powers - only how they get it, and that they don't need a test to cast it).

Can Kairos Fateweaver use the Staff of Tomorrow to re-roll the dice result when checking for end of game as a result of the random game length rule?

Edit: Can the Grimoire of True Names be used more than once in a movement phase? (Can you use it on the same target more than once, or can you use it on two or more separate targets?)

Edit2: If a unit with a Painboy (grants FnP 5+ to a unit) passes a toughness test for Warpflame, does it's FnP become 4+? If the pain boy dies, does it revert to FnP 6+, does it lose FnP all together, or does it keep FnP 4+?

Edit3: If a Tzeentch Herald on a Chariot has the Warp Tether reward, and the Herald is killed in close combat while the Chariot is immobilized, is the Herald still able to come back on from on-going reserves? (The Chariot can't physically move onto the board)

Edit 4: Do wounds from Soul Blaze as a result of Flickering Fire of Tzeentch benefit from the +1S due to the Exalted Locus of Conjuration?

 loreweaver wrote:
Can Kairos Fateweaver use the Staff of Tomorrow to re-roll the dice result when checking for end of game as a result of the random game length rule?

Oh, now that would be interesting.

Is the Eternal Dance by the Masque (which must be chosen at the start of the Shooting Phase) her shooting action, or could she do a regular action in the Shooting Phase too (most notably run)?

 Janthkin wrote:

masquerade81 wrote:
Scrolls of Sorcery: (pg. 43 Codex Daemons)
When manifesting powers with The Blue Scribes, it says to choose a psychic discipline at the start of each friendly turn. No problem there, but when i roll a D6 and get a wichfire power, so is the power resolved immediately, or in the shooting phase? It only says that it can be automatically manifested without a psychic test. It does not state the phase in which the power happens.

No question here. You generate the power at the start of the turn; you can use the power, or not, at your choice & at the appropriate time (as nothing in the wording changes the timing of use of psychic powers - only how they get it, and that they don't need a test to cast it).

This would be actually really good, because i testplayed it today, and got some weird witchfire nove a couple of times that i did not see any point in using. Now i can go 12" and blow up near enemies with the nova ability for example

 yakface wrote:



Army Special Rules
• Is a Chaos Space Marine unit with the Daemon special rule and the suitable Mark of one of the 4 gods considered "Daemons of the same alignment" for the purpose of attaching Chaos Daemon Independent Characters? e.g, could a Herald of Slaanesh join a unit of Warp Talons with the Mark of Slaanesh?



Psychic Powers
• Is the Feel No Pain +1 bonus provided by Warpflame cumulative throughout the course of a game? For example, can a unit that starts the game with Feel No Pain (5+) have it improved up to (3+) after passing its Toughness test against Warpflame wounds in two separate shooting phases? If so, can a unit have its Feel No Pain improved to a (1+) and does this mean it automatically passes its Feel No Pain rolls?

1) IIRC the prohibition to join squads is on the Daemonic Instability rule not actually the daemon rule. Since models on the CSM does not have Daemonic Instability they can't join.

2) The FnP should stack through the game not sure about 40k (it clearly does on fantasy so probably is the same), but even if you get to FnP 1 remember a roll of 1 always fails.

Can Fateweaver's reroll be used to re-roll things like, say, ending the game? (I.e. at the end of turn 5, can I reroll the dice to see if the game ends?)

Can it be used for other such rerolls - Nightfighting on turn 5, seizing the initiative, etc?

My gut impression is no, because these things technically happen "out of turn", but I'd like to be clear on it.

 Fxeni wrote:
Can Fateweaver's reroll be used to re-roll things like, say, ending the game? (I.e. at the end of turn 5, can I reroll the dice to see if the game ends?)

Can it be used for other such rerolls - Nightfighting on turn 5, seizing the initiative, etc?

My gut impression is no, because these things technically happen "out of turn", but I'd like to be clear on it.

I like these questions.
I would probably agree with no as the answer, just as Carbulo's rule can't be used to roll for things like deployment.

The roll to continue happens after game turn 5, but before game turn 6. So no reroll possible

"At the end of game turn 5,... "

The end of something is not after it, is it?

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
Can models with Dæmonic Instability go to ground?

They arent fearless, so why couldnt they?

RAW they can. RAI, not so sure.

 Shandara wrote:
"At the end of game turn 5,... "

The end of something is not after it, is it?

Good point.

nosferatu1001 wrote:"For weapons that trigger an ability when the bearer kills a specific model (such as a Staff of Change or Mutating Warpblade), how do you determine who actually killed the enemy model if several different models are all striking at the same Initiative step when the enemy model is killed?
"

As they have different rules, and wound allocation is one wound at a time from each wound group *separated by different rules*, this one is fairly obvious, no?

If you have 3 wounds from the blade, and 8 other identical wounds, then you choose to either resolve the blade wounds first or the other wounds first. You can then determine, with 100% precision, what caused what models death

Like you say, RAW it does all work, but it can make the weapon's effect rather difficult to pull off if attacking at the same Initiative step as other friendly model attacks. Because let's say you've caused 20 wounds with lesser guys and 2 wounds with the Mutating Warpblade (on a 3 wound enemy character). You know if you resolve the Mutating Warpblade first then by the strict RAW you're not going to get the mutation effect, but if you resolve the 20 wounds from lesser guys first, then invariably you're going to also not likely to get the mutation effect either (as the 20 wounds will likely kill the enemy).

In previous codexes, like the Dark Eldar, they had FAQ'd these types of things to work so long as the bearer of the weapon inflicted as least one unsaved wound in the same Initiative step the enemy model was killed, to make it a little easier for these effects to occur, but looking through the current GW Dark Eldar FAQ I'm not seeing those updates anymore, so I guess they removed them.

I also thought that some other 6th edition codexes had introduced similar mechanics but had again specified that it applied similar to the previous DE FAQ rulings...but I can't think of any of those types of abilities in the last few codexes (if anyone can, please help me out).

So yeah, maybe this one gets crossed off the list.

Lord Yayula wrote:
1) IIRC the prohibition to join squads is on the Daemonic Instability rule not actually the daemon rule. Since models on the CSM does not have Daemonic Instability they can't join.

2) The FnP should stack through the game not sure about 40k (it clearly does on fantasy so probably is the same), but even if you get to FnP 1 remember a roll of 1 always fails.

1) No, the question is about Daemon ICs joining CSM units, which is not covered by the Instability rules.

2) Saving throws say that they always fail on the roll of a '1', but I can't find anything that would apply that to FNP. If you can, please let me know a page #.

Characteristic tests specify that they always fail on 1 and succeed on 6. (Page 7, "Automatic Pass and Fail".

Fnp is a 'special Feel No Pain roll' not a test. Is FnP (X+) a characteristic of a model?

 yakface wrote:

Lord Yayula wrote:
1) IIRC the prohibition to join squads is on the Daemonic Instability rule not actually the daemon rule. Since models on the CSM does not have Daemonic Instability they can't join.

2) The FnP should stack through the game not sure about 40k (it clearly does on fantasy so probably is the same), but even if you get to FnP 1 remember a roll of 1 always fails.

1) No, the question is about Daemon ICs joining CSM units, which is not covered by the Instability rules.

2) Saving throws say that they always fail on the roll of a '1', but I can't find anything that would apply that to FNP. If you can, please let me know a page #.

Yah, 2) doesn't say anything regarding the roll of 1 on FnP, was under the impression it did.

For 1), Daemon ICs are units of 1 model with Daemonic Instability which can join other units with Daemonic Instability (if you consider ICs as not being units there are several rules which won't work on ICs if you think they aren't units), therefore the Instability rules do cover them.

Pg 3. BRB

"UNITS

Warriors tend to band together to fight in squads, teams,
sections or similarly named groups - individuals do not
normally go wandering off on their own for obvious reasons !
In Warhammer 40,000, we represent this by grouping models
together into units. A unit usually consists of several models
that have banded together, but a single, powerful model, such as
a lone character, a tank, a war engine or a rampaging monster, is
also considered to be a unit in its own right."

 Lord Yayula wrote:

For 1), Daemon ICs are units of 1 model with Daemonic Instability which can join other units with Daemonic Instability (if you consider ICs as not being units there are several rules which won't work on ICs if you think they aren't units), therefore the Instability rules do cover them.

Daemonic Instability says nothing about a unit with it joining another unit. I know (think) you're trying to say that when a character joins a unit he (his unit) is also being joined by the unit he is joining, but that is not the way most people understand that wording to mean, so at the very least it is still a valid question for that reason.

For example, if I have a motorcyle gang that includes just myself and then I go and join the Hells Angels, people do not understand that to mean that the Hells Angels have also joined my gang. If you think that is the case, that is fine, but that is not a common enough interpretation to stop this from being a valid question to include IMHO.

Does the rending ability of the 'deamon of slaanesh' rule confer to lash of despair? Since Lash of Despair's strength is 'user' can it benefit from stat enhancement by ironarm?

 Shandara wrote:
Characteristic tests specify that they always fail on 1 and succeed on 6. (Page 7, "Automatic Pass and Fail".

Fnp is a 'special Feel No Pain roll' not a test. Is FnP (X+) a characteristic of a model?

Other way around,1 is always a succes and 6 is always a Fail.

But yeah FnP is a rule, not a caracteristic, so no auto succed on 1.

Can a Herald of Tzeentch in possession of both a Mutating Warp Blade (greater reward) and Etherblade (lesser reward) gain the benefit of the Warp Mutation rule when attacking with the Etherblade?

A model with both weapons would recieve +1 attack for having two specialist weapons, rerolls from Etherblades mastercrafted and AP2. The Warp Mutation specifies that it comes into effect when the Bearer kills a character, and unlike Warpdoom (staff of change) it doesn't specify it has to be an attack from the original weapon.

Seems like it would take effect by wording (Herald is still the bearer of Mutating Warpblade even if attacking with Etherblade), and would be an effective character slayer.

 Melcavuk wrote:
Can a Herald of Tzeentch in possession of both a Mutating Warp Blade (greater reward) and Etherblade (lesser reward) gain the benefit of the Warp Mutation rule when attacking with the Etherblade?

A model with both weapons would recieve +1 attack for having two specialist weapons, rerolls from Etherblades mastercrafted and AP2. The Warp Mutation specifies that it comes into effect when the Bearer kills a character, and unlike Warpdoom (staff of change) it doesn't specify it has to be an attack from the original weapon.

Seems like it would take effect by wording (Herald is still the bearer of Mutating Warpblade even if attacking with Etherblade), and would be an effective character slayer.

No, the BRB is very clear about having more than one weapon.
You must choose which weapon you are striking with and use only the benefits of that weapon.

See more than one weapon section of the BRB page 51

Except for Great Swords, which you just have to "have" in order to benefit from.

Good to know, forgot the BRB bit when reading up on daemon book, teaches me to cross check I guess.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except for Great Swords, which you just have to "have" in order to benefit from.

All the Tyranid biomorphs use similar "model which has" language, too.

I had this in another thread, but I guess I could add it here.

If the Pink Horrors suffer a double-1 or double-6 for the psychic test while there is a herald in the unit, does the herald take the perils wound? I'd argue he does, as he's a character in the unit. Might make it worth the 5pts to put an Iridescent horror in the unit o_O.

Also, does the whole unit count as firing a weapon? If the Iridescent horror rolls on the greater rewards table and get the lance weapon, can it shoot it while the pink horrors are firing off their witchfire power?

For the second one - it tells you to nominate a single model as firing the power, doesnt it? So only that model has "shot"

Can the Spell Syphon power of the Blue Scribes increase the Pink Horrors Warp Charges beyond 3 and if so, do you add additional D6 to the roll?

Flickering Flame has a cap. Warp charges are listed 1-3.

Now Syphon on Fateweaver. If he can get the buffs, he can buff 2 units, fire two witchfire powers, last one being Flickering Flame.

Does a weapon destroyed result on a vehicle destroy a demonic gift, as it is not a weapon, per se, or does it immobilize the vehicle?

??? I don't see what gives any model in the book an invulnerable save. They aren't allocated except where specially mentioned. So does that mean my models got no saves? I don't see the Daemonic special rule. Just Daemon of XXXXXX and Daemonic Instability. Please tell me I am mistaken.

 Tomb King wrote:
??? I don't see what gives any model in the book an invulnerable save. They aren't allocated except where specially mentioned. So does that mean my models got no saves? I don't see the Daemonic special rule. Just Daemon of Khorne and Daemonic Instability. Please tell me I am mistaken.

You are mistaken. All of the 'Daemon of X' rules give the model the daemon special rule (from the rulebook), which gives them a 5+ invulnerable save and the fear special rule.

 yakface wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
??? I don't see what gives any model in the book an invulnerable save. They aren't allocated except where specially mentioned. So does that mean my models got no saves? I don't see the Daemonic special rule. Just Daemon of Khorne and Daemonic Instability. Please tell me I am mistaken.

You are mistaken. All of the 'Daemon of X' rules give the model the daemon special rule (from the rulebook), which gives them a 5+ invulnerable save and the fear special rule.

I knew I saw it somewhere... just had a complete... sigh its been a long week.

nosferatu1001 wrote:For the second one - it tells you to nominate a single model as firing the power, doesnt it? So only that model has "shot"

Does it say that anywhere? I think I saw someone else mention that fact as well, but for the life of me I can not find the rules reference. I only have the digital codex so I'm wondering if some text got left out? The Brotherhood of Sorcerer rules only specify how the unit takes psychic tests and is affected by Perils, but nothing about how they actually cast a power. And the unit rules for Horrors themselves don't seem to say anything either. So can anyone point me in the right direction here?

abbazabba1920 wrote:Does a weapon destroyed result on a vehicle destroy a demonic gift, as it is not a weapon, per se, or does it immobilize the vehicle?

Daemonic Gifts can still be ranged and/or melee weapons per the codex. They are all categorized as such in the codex (within the Daemonic Gifts section they specify 'ranged weapons' and 'melee weapons').

Adding to your Masque and Blue Scribes are not heralds, are they really not supposed to be Independent Characters either?

Being a (nearly) Mono Slaanesh player i know the masque never had IC rule in previous codex either which makes me think for some reason this was done intentionally... The reasoning behind it eludes me however.

 keltikhoa wrote:
Adding to your Masque and Blue Scribes are not heralds, are they really not supposed to be Independent Characters either?

Being a (nearly) Mono Slaanesh player i know the masque never had IC rule in previous codex either which makes me think for some reason this was done intentionally... The reasoning behind it eludes however.

I think because the Masque must dance...forever alone.

If your going to quote fluff at me then at least say it right, "She must dance forever more."

Also farther in the fluff for her it says, So powerful is the lure of the masque's display that all who see it feel compelled to join in the performance.

and yet she cant join a unit of daemonettes even if they are compelled to join her?

I was quoting fluff (at least not intentionally, I don't own the new codex). Forever alone is an internet meme.

If the masque could join units no one would not take her for the points cost, as she stands now it's a case of take her in the spare HQ slot, drop her on an icon and cross your fingers that she survives to do her horrible thing, if not then at least there's probably a decent amount of overkill fired at her which isn't going somewhere else.

Ok The Masque is a dirty dirty girl. mkay.

Another question then.

Lord of _____ - DP from this codex with the Daemon of ____ upgrade are HS choices rather than HQ choices.

Can you still take a DP with that mark as your 2nd HQ or are you only allowed to take them as HS?

You can only take them as HS. If it said they can be taken as HS then it would be HQ or HS.

no, the rule very clearly states that the Deamon Princes in question are heavy support, there's nothing optional about it, it's the same for most characters who move things on the FOC these days.

For example, if you take Azrael with Dark Angels, once your 6 Troops slots are full you cannot take Deathwing Terminator squads or Ravenwing Attack Squads.

 Drunkspleen wrote:
no, the rule very clearly states that the Deamon Princes in question are heavy support, there's nothing optional about it, it's the same for most characters who move things on the FOC these days.

For example, if you take Azrael with Dark Angels, once your 6 Troops slots are full you cannot take Deathwing Terminator squads or Ravenwing Attack Squads.

You can however, take daemon prince of khorne as heavy support but a daemon prince with a different mark as an hq. etc...

 loreweaver wrote:
I had this in another thread, but I guess I could add it here.

If the Pink Horrors suffer a double-1 or double-6 for the psychic test while there is a herald in the unit, does the herald take the perils wound? I'd argue he does, as he's a character in the unit. Might make it worth the 5pts to put an Iridescent horror in the unit o_O.

Also, does the whole unit count as firing a weapon? If the Iridescent horror rolls on the greater rewards table and get the lance weapon, can it shoot it while the pink horrors are firing off their witchfire power?

The Brotherhood of Sorcerers rule states that independent character joined to the unit can't have the perils allocated to them, it's either a character that's part of the unit or a random guy if there is no character.

The portaglyph is a 1 hullpoint immobilised vehicle. Does that mean that, similar to a drop pod, it loses a hullpoint when deployed ue to being immobilised and therefore counts as destroyed? Is there a difference between being an immobilised vehicle and being a vehicle that suffered an immobilised result?

thanatos67 wrote:
The portaglyph is a 1 hullpoint immobilised vehicle. Does that mean that, similar to a drop pod, it loses a hullpoint when deployed ue to being immobilised and therefore counts as destroyed? Is there a difference between being an immobilised vehicle and being a vehicle that suffered an immobilised result?

That question will definitely be discussed for the Adepticon FAQ because of the Drop Pod ruling they currently have, but assuming that ruling stays, I don't think its completely similar situation.

The Drop Pod rules say that they 'count in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an immobilised damage result'.

This is MUCH more specific than the Portalglyph, which just says it: 'is treated as an immobilised vehicle.'


So in other words, I think the drop pod rule is different enough to have a different interpretation of how it should be played.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but...

Do the Masque's dances count as "firing a weapon"? Or can it, for example, select the dance at the beginning of the Shooting phase and still run in that phase? The Dances seem to conform to the rules for normal shooting in some ways (LOS required, range, unengaged enemy unit, etc.), but it's not explicit.

1. Can a psyker in a transport be possessed by the 11 roll on the warpstorm table?
2. Does a farseer get a ghosthelm save against it (as that is what this piece of wargear is meant to be for in the fluff)?
3. If the psyker possessed was in a vehicle, does the herald get placed within 6" of the vehicle (as it obviously can't be placed inside where the psyker was)?

When will my bloodcrushers get back the 3+ armour save and toughness 5 they should never have lost

Can a banner from a unit that has arrived via deep strike be used by units that arrive from deep strike in the same turn?

Teleport homers and such have wording that says they have to be on the table at the start of the turn. Banners seem to be lacking this.

rohansoldier wrote:
1. Can a psyker in a transport be possessed by the 11 roll on the warpstorm table?
2. Does a farseer get a ghosthelm save against it (as that is what this piece of wargear is meant to be for in the fluff)?
3. If the psyker possessed was in a vehicle, does the herald get placed within 6" of the vehicle (as it obviously can't be placed inside where the psyker was)?

Yes, they are a psyker in play
No, as it is not a perils of the warp
Yes, as it is a distance involving measuring to the unit embarked

 loreweaver wrote:
Can Kairos Fateweaver use the Staff of Tomorrow to re-roll the dice result when checking for end of game as a result of the random game length rule?

I wouldn't think so because although you can literally roll the dice its not really your roll if you know what i mean. It really is a roll from the both of you or from the invisible independent man of invisible Independence.

So does that mean that if you reserve Ahriman you can't infiltrate D3 units? Serious question.

A reminder: this thread isn't for discussion of potential rules issues, but for submission of questions for potential FAQ submission. If you have specific topics you want to discuss, please take them elsewhere.

For wargear that targets psychers specifically, such as the crucible of malediction, is Kairos counted as one psycher, or two due the Two Heads of Fate rule?

 gorgon wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but...

Do the Masque's dances count as "firing a weapon"? Or can it, for example, select the dance at the beginning of the Shooting phase and still run in that phase? The Dances seem to conform to the rules for normal shooting in some ways (LOS required, range, unengaged enemy unit, etc.), but it's not explicit.

Can I ask, why does this matter? She doesn't have a shooting weapon (to my knowledge) and she can't join another unit...so is this basically whether or not she has to charge the unit she chose as the dance target?

I really don't see why people are assuming this counts as her firing a weapon just because it shares some similarities with the process of shooting, though.

Or, as he mentioned in his example, so she could dance and run (maybe to contest - I'm not familiar with what it does now).

Can warp storm results hit a flyer or flying monstrous creature?

 Fxeni wrote:
Can warp storm results hit a flyer or flying monstrous creature?

They can if it's Hovering; but not if it's Zooming.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Fxeni wrote:
Can warp storm results hit a flyer or flying monstrous creature?

They can if it's Hovering; but not if it's Zooming.

Well I've been told two different answers for this now.

The updated Psyker app allows you to create and assign powers to units of pink horrors and heralds mid-game, so I assume it's allowed.

 yakface wrote:

thanatos67 wrote:
The portaglyph is a 1 hullpoint immobilised vehicle. Does that mean that, similar to a drop pod, it loses a hullpoint when deployed ue to being immobilised and therefore counts as destroyed? Is there a difference between being an immobilised vehicle and being a vehicle that suffered an immobilised result?

That question will definitely be discussed for the Adepticon FAQ because of the Drop Pod ruling they currently have, but assuming that ruling stays, I don't think its completely similar situation.

The Drop Pod rules say that they 'count in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an immobilised damage result'.

This is MUCH more specific than the Portalglyph, which just says it: 'is treated as an immobilised vehicle.'


So in other words, I think the drop pod rule is different enough to have a different interpretation of how it should be played.

No where in the immobilized damage result does it say you take a hull point. The only things that cause the vehicle to take a hull point are glancing/penetrating hits and the fail of a dangerous terrain test by a vehicle. So no the portal glyph, nor a drop pod, take a hull point when the deep strike in. They simply can not move once deployed. Please feel free to search, and post the page number in the BRB where it says you take a hull point for being immobile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jake Hartley wrote:

 loreweaver wrote:
Can Kairos Fateweaver use the Staff of Tomorrow to re-roll the dice result when checking for end of game as a result of the random game length rule?

I wouldn't think so because although you can literally roll the dice its not really your roll if you know what i mean. It really is a roll from the both of you or from the invisible independent man of invisible Independence.

The BRB says you roll at the end of turn 5, since this is technically still turn 5 then he can re-roll it. BUT this may be bad wording, and not the intention in the BRB. Maybe they mean after the conclusion of turn 5, which could very well be possible. So it will need a clarification.

 WolvesForTheWolfGod wrote:
No where in the immobilized damage result does it say you take a hull point. The only things that cause the vehicle to take a hull point are glancing/penetrating hits and the fail of a dangerous terrain test by a vehicle. So no the portal glyph, nor a drop pod, take a hull point when the deep strike in. They simply can not move once deployed. Please feel free to search, and post the page number in the BRB where it says you take a hull point for being immobile.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/499023.page
Feel free to read that thread and start a new one if you disagree.

Disagree with what? I read the rule book, and I listed the 3 instances in which a hull point is inflicted. So no the portal glyph does not take a hull point when it deep strikes in. I would gladly debate the topic if there was actually something to debate, but until someone shows where you take a hull point for being an immobile vehicle by default there is nothing to debate. If you pen, and then immobilize the portal glyph, then it will take 2 hull points, but since it only has 1 hull point that is kind of irrelevant.

I guess a better way to go about is ask yourself this:
Did my portal glyph suffer a glancing hit?
Did my portal glyph suffer a penetrating hit?
Did my portal glyph fail a dangerous terrain test?

If your answer is no to all 3 of these questions, then your portal glyph did not take a hull point.

See the Drop Pod FAQ. It adds another instance

Take it elsewhere, folks.

rigeld2 wrote:
Or, as he mentioned in his example, so she could dance and run (maybe to contest - I'm not familiar with what it does now).

Yes, that's it exactly. Can she, for instance, deep strike, put the whammy on a unit at the beginning of the Shooting phase, and then run to a much-needed spot out of LOS? Maybe that's not a crucial issue, but I think it's a valid question, especially considering how much run distance Slaaneshi daemons can rack up following a DS. I think that movement is a key advantage for Slaaneshi infantry that deep strikes. And I can almost guarantee that someone's going to question it the first time I try it. *shrug*

There is nothing to indicate it is a shooting attack, as no language such as "instead of firing...." or "instead of running...."

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Fxeni wrote:
Can warp storm results hit a flyer or flying monstrous creature?

They can if it's Hovering; but not if it's Zooming.

NVM - not the place to discuss the rules.

When you have a unit of Pink Horrors with multiple witchfire attacks, does anything prevent you from designating different models as 'shooting' their Brotherhood of Psykers attacks to actually use the multiple powers they have available? (referring to the one witchfire attack per turn limitation)

Does having an Iridescent Horror included allow you to do this if the answer is no otherwise?

Emperor awfulness wrote:
When you have a unit of Pink Horrors with multiple witchfire attacks, does anything prevent you from designating different models as 'shooting' their Brotherhood of Psykers attacks to actually use the multiple powers they have available? (referring to the one witchfire attack per turn limitation)

Does having an Iridescent Horror included allow you to do this if the answer is no otherwise?

Read the Brotherhood of Sorcerers USR. The entire unit (including the Iridescent Horror) is a Mastery Level 1 Psyker (potentially with multiple WC). They can use only one psychic power.

If a unit of Pink Horrors comes into play via the Portalglyph.
Does it have a warp charge to begin with?

The unit technically does not exist prior to being generated by the Portalglyph so it is not around at the beginning of the turn, when Warp Charges are generated.

Not sure if they are intended to start with 1 Warp Charge or not.

 loreweaver wrote:
The updated Psyker app allows you to create and assign powers to units of pink horrors and heralds mid-game, so I assume it's allowed.

Just for my own information, does that app also automatically generate warp charge for the unit when it is created mid-turn as well?

If I have paid for WarpForged Armour and roll Unbreakable Hide (Both providing a 3+), does this count as a duplicated reward, forcing me to reroll the result until I get something else?

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
If I have paid for WarpForged Armour and roll Unbreakable Hide (Both providing a 3+), does this count as a duplicated reward, forcing me to reroll the result until I get something else?

They provide the same benefit, but they are called two different things, so I'd say no.

 yakface wrote:

 loreweaver wrote:
The updated Psyker app allows you to create and assign powers to units of pink horrors and heralds mid-game, so I assume it's allowed.

Just for my own information, does that app also automatically generate warp charge for the unit when it is created mid-turn as well?

Yes it does. It allows you to select powers and generates warp charges. However, this is true for adding any psyker mid-game and not unique to Pink Horrors.

Can special rules granted by Daemonic Rewards be cancelled by Dark Excommunication

Can Hellforged Artefacts be cancelled by ark Excommunication (on the basis that models pre-armed with hellfored artefact don't have them listed under daemonic gifts)

Daemonic Reward != Daemonic Gift. That one has an answer

Daemonic Instability: When making a daemonic instability test, is the leadership of the daemon unit modified by the amount it lost the assault by?

It appears to me RAW that no, it is not modified, but the intent is unclear. The test happens at the same time as moral checks, but it is not a morale check.

If you don't roll double 1s or 6s it is modified by the combat resolution.

Read the last paragraph of the rule, page 26.
"... taking into account modifiers, including any from the combat result."

No, a vehicle such as a drop pod that is immobilized on landing does not lose an additional hull point, it is only subsequent immobilized results that remove an additional hull point.

 Endriu Death Coy wrote:
No, a vehicle such as a drop pod that is immobilized on landing does not lose an additional hull point, it is only subsequent immobilized results that remove an additional hull point.

Why are you posting that in this thread?

Please re-read the original post in this thread (about not arguing rules in this thread). There are no Drop Pods in the Chaos Daemons codex and therefore there is no need to respond to what anyone else is saying about Drop Pods in this thread.

Here's another bunch::
1) Can the blasted standard be used to overwatch, if the horrors can't otherwise shoot because they're only armed with a psychic power?
2) Do the shots from the blasted standard benefit from the locus of conjuration?
3) May a herald of tzeentch on a chariot take the blue horror crew upgrade?
4) Do the -1 modifier from blue horror crew stack if there are multiple burning chariots within range?
5) Does a herald's locus apply to any chariot he/she is riding?
6) Can a herald in a chariot join a chariot squadron?
7) Does a soul grinder which ignores a crew shaken/stunned result also ignore the loss of a hull point?

chewielight wrote:
Can horrors or any demon use both codex and BRB powers at the same time. For instant a mastery level 3 herald switch out one power for prescience and keep the codex ones as well?

Daemons do not have the limitations of CSM psykers....CSM psyker must choose at least 1 power or up to half their powers (rounding up) from the chart of the appropriate Chaos god. But Daemons, for example a Mastery Level 3 Great Unclean One, could choose all 3 of its powers from Biomancy (which is truly an awesome thing to use!)

 Lord Krungharr wrote:

chewielight wrote:
Can horrors or any demon use both codex and BRB powers at the same time. For instant a mastery level 3 herald switch out one power for prescience and keep the codex ones as well?

Daemons do not have the limitations of CSM psykers....CSM psyker must choose at least 1 power or up to half their powers (rounding up) from the chart of the appropriate Chaos god. But Daemons, for example a Mastery Level 3 Great Unclean One, could choose all 3 of its powers from Biomancy (which is truly an awesome thing to use!)

Yeah, that doesnt match the actual rules. Page 69

nosferatu1001 wrote:

rohansoldier wrote:
1. Can a psyker in a transport be possessed by the 11 roll on the warpstorm table?
2. Does a farseer get a ghosthelm save against it (as that is what this piece of wargear is meant to be for in the fluff)?
3. If the psyker possessed was in a vehicle, does the herald get placed within 6" of the vehicle (as it obviously can't be placed inside where the psyker was)?

Yes, they are a psyker in play
No, as it is not a perils of the warp
Yes, as it is a distance involving measuring to the unit embarked

Nope, in the faq it says units in vehicles ignore all leadership checks or something along those lines, so the 3d6 test will not affect a psyker in a transport, looked this up on Sunday

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Yeah, that doesnt match the actual rules. Page 69

Yes it does. They may roll up to half of their mastery level in their gods' disciplines, but they are not required to.

MarkyMark wrote:

Nope, in the faq it says units in vehicles ignore all leadership checks or something along those lines, so the 3d6 test will not affect a psyker in a transport, looked this up on Sunday

Not that I can find. PLease post page and paragraph

Embarked units are Fearless, which means you pass morale and pinning checks, not ALL leadership checks.


Lou - apologies, managed to misread the post I quoted.

Q:Can psychic powers or other ef ects that cause a Leadership
test,for example the Tyranids’ Psychic Scream, affect vehicles
or units embarked upon transports? (p76 / p78)
A: No.

BRB FAQ page 6.

Pretty sure this will apply as it is a leadership check on 3d6.

 Centurian99 wrote:
Here's another bunch::
1) Can the blasted standard be used to overwatch, if the horrors can't otherwise shoot because they're only armed with a psychic power?
2) Do the shots from the blasted standard benefit from the locus of conjuration?
3) May a herald of tzeentch on a chariot take the blue horror crew upgrade?
4) Do the -1 modifier from blue horror crew stack if there are multiple burning chariots within range?
5) Does a herald's locus apply to any chariot he/she is riding?
6) Can a herald in a chariot join a chariot squadron?
7) Does a soul grinder which ignores a crew shaken/stunned result also ignore the loss of a hull point?

1. No, because the Blasted Standard only does hits if the unit's other shooting hits previously. Since no previous shooting was done in that Assault phase (stupid witchfire), no Standard.
2. No, the Locus only buffs psychic powers; the Standard is not a psychic power (although it can still be denied, in a roundabout way: declare Standard before taking Psychic test, and if DtW works, you've wasted your standard.) (Stupid witchfire.)
3. Yes, the Herald profile simply replaces the Flamer profile; chariot upgrades are still possible. (Although the Herald might not get Blue/Pink fire, since those weapons are on the Flamer, and the Herald replaced the Flamer).
4. No, read the upgrade on p41: "...units within 6" of one or more...."
5. None of the Tzeentch Loci can have any effect on chariots.
6. No. Vehicles do not have the IC rule. Only vehicles that are purchased as a squadron can be considered one unit. (There might be some strange FW stuff of which I'm unaware).
-----------------------------
***7. Ie. is a hull point tied directly to a result on the Damage Table? Good question.

***Add another: If a Herald replaces an Exalted Flamer on a Burning Chariot, does the Herald gain the shooting attacks Blue Fire and Pink Fire?

Ignoring the damage result does not ignore that a penetrating hit was taken, and it is the penetrating hit which causes a HP loss.

Does the Herald have those rules? Any rule saying they gain those rules?

There is no mention of the Herald gaining those guns, nor does he have them. RAW is clear: no cool guns for Herald. However, the Burning Chariot is broken enough as is that perhaps they intended the weapons to transfer over and forgot to mention it. It's worth clarifying.

I seem to recall some Necron vehicle that ignores stuns and also ignores losing an HP. This might've been intended to work the same way, but was worded poorly. Again, worth clarifying.

It says on the flamer profile daemonic gifts (exalted flamer only): blue fire and pink fire, it is pretty clear the herald does not get these

MarkyMark wrote:
It says on the flamer profile daemonic gifts (exalted flamer only): blue fire and pink fire, it is pretty clear the herald does not get these

And its that required wording right there that pretty much broke the burning chariot. They had to word it in such a way so that it was known that the weapons were lost when a herald was on the chariot, but they chose a poor way of doing it, so now the entire unit is busted.

Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Centurian99 wrote:
Here's another bunch::
1) Can the blasted standard be used to overwatch, if the horrors can't otherwise shoot because they're only armed with a psychic

1. No, because the Blasted Standard only does hits if the unit's other shooting hits previously. Since no previous shooting was done in that Assault phase (stupid witchfire), no Standard.

The blasted standard can be used for overwatch: see page 64 of the codex.

"... This is done immediately before the unit makes a shooting attack (including overwatch) or attempts to manifest..."


My questions:

1. If a unit with Daemonic Instability becomes Fearless, does it still need to test for instability?

2. Since walkers don't become i1 when using unwieldy weapons, why would you pay 25pts for a warpsword?

3. Isn't the +1 BS on pyrocasters largely useless.

---

I'm not sure if 2 and 3 should fall under faqs but they do seem like an oversight.

1mperator wrote:

Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Centurian99 wrote:
Here's another bunch::
1) Can the blasted standard be used to overwatch, if the horrors can't otherwise shoot because they're only armed with a psychic

1. No, because the Blasted Standard only does hits if the unit's other shooting hits previously. Since no previous shooting was done in that Assault phase (stupid witchfire), no Standard.

The blasted standard can be used for overwatch: see page 64 of the codex.

My questions:

1. If a unit with Daemonic Instability becomes Fearless, does it still need to test for instability?

2. Since walkers don't become i1 when using unwieldy weapons, why would you pay 25pts for a warpsword?

3. Isn't the +1 BS on pyrocasters largely useless.

---

"... This is done immediately before the unit makes a shooting attack (including overwatch) or attempts to manifest..."

Sure, you can use it on Overwatch. But it only generates any hits if at least one of the original attacks hit. Horrors can't fire anything in Overwatch, so they will never hit anything, so the Blasted Standard will never generate any hits on Overwatch for Horrors. You can use it, but it would be a total waste.

As for your questions:

1. No, it automatically the test in combat, which would override Daemonic Instability.
2. To get an extra attack for having two CCWs.
3. Some of the Daemonic Gifts are shooting attacks, so the Pyrocaster can potentially get a non-template weapon to fire.

1) Incorrect Chrysis. Have a look at the rules for DI. It states "At the Check Morale" stage you must take a Leadership Test. Fearless does not automatically pass Leadership Tests, just Morale, Pinning, Fear etc. So you must still take it. THis is clear in the rules

YOu're also forgetting that you can get a Lesser Reward that is a ranged weapon, meaning there ARE occasions when you can fire overwatch and then use the blasted standard.

This thread is NOT for discussing rules issues. Bunch of posts removed.

Just because I am curious on GWs ruling (if they make one):

What constitutes Daemonic Gifts for the purposes of Dark Excommunication?

I do realize that atm everything except for special rules are currently tagged as Daemonic Gifts.