Unfortunately, I was unable to obtain any pictures because I was in a hurry to get on the road Friday as it was a 13 hour drive to Indianapolis.(note: driving on low sleep for 13 hours by yourself is not recommended and you probably should never do it. ).

So going into this tournament I had slept 8 hours in the past 96 hours. I didn't care what was gonna happen I was gonna have fun and enjoy the weekend regardless. Well without further adue here is the list I had decided on. Half of you hated the prince, a fourth of you loved it, and the last fourth didnt give a :bleep. lol.

Pictures of some of the tables:


(THE UGLY MISFITS) (Yes, they did manage a 5 painting score )
HQ:
1 Destroyer Lord, 160 pts = (Sempiternal Weave + Mindshackle Scarabs)

Troops:
5 Warriors, 65 pts
1 Night Scythe, 100 pts

5 Warriors, 65 pts
1 Night Scythe, 100 pts

5 Warriors, 65 pts
1 Night Scythe, 100 pts

5 Warriors, 65 pts

Fast Attack:
5 Canoptek Wraiths, 175 pts

Heavy Support:
1 Annihilation Barge, Tesla/Tesla 90 pts

1 Annihilation Barge, Tesla/Tesla 90 pts

1 Annihilation Barge, Tesla/Tesla 90 pts

HQ: Daemon Prince
1 Daemon Prince (HQ) [Chaos], 365 pts = (Power Armour + Wings + Increase Mastery Level x3 + Daemon of Tzeentch+ Gift of Mutation+Spell Familiar)
1 The Black Mace [Chaos]

Troops:
9 Chaos Cultists (Troops) [Chaos], 50 pts
1 Cultist Champion

Fast Attack:
Heldrake (170 pts) (baleflamer)

1750pts



GAME ONE:

Opponent: Chris out of Virginia
His army: Generic Space Marines

HQ:
PA Librarion (Null Zone, Gate of Infinity) 100pts

Elite:
10 Sternguard (2x combi melta, 8x combi plasma) in Drop pod 335pts
5 Assault Terminators (TH/SS) with dedicated lanraider 460pts

Troops:
10 sniper scouts 170pts
10 tactical squad (ML; melta gun) 175pts

Fast Attack:
Storm Talon Gunship (AC; ML) 155pts
Storm Talon Gunship (AC; ML) 155pts

Heavy support:
Thunderfire Cannon 100pts
Thunderfire Cannon 100pts

Total List cost: 1750

Mission: One (Crusade (5 pre-placed OBJ; Table Quarters)
Deployment: Dawn of War
Daemon Prince boon: +1 WS; Powers TZ: Detonate, BIO: warp speed; smite
I believe he won the roll of and had me deploy first

What are your thoughts on the match-up and how do you think this game will end? I am happy I didnt bring guard those thunderfire cannons are hell to deal with.

You got SACKED Tomb Spanker!

Mizzouri wrote:
You got SACKED Tomb Spanker!

Lol, well I dunno if that was the case in this one. My wraiths were pretty hot.

ROUND 1:
Mission: One (Crusade (5 pre-placed OBJ; Table Quarters)
Deployment: Dawn of War
Daemon Prince boon: +1 WS; Powers TZ: Detonate, BIO: warp speed; smite
I believe he won the roll of and had me deploy first


Rare picture of me on the right in the black sweater. This is pre-game and just shows what are table looked like from a distance.

I deploy in my table quarter with 5 wraiths Destroyer lord, 3 anni barges, and the prince. He decides to deep strike his terminators and combat squads his scouts and tactical squads. The landraiders starts on the board and the librarian with 5 of the tactical squad elect to use it when the game starts. He deploys both scouts to either of my flanks in area terrain. Both of his thunderfire cannons sit next to the ML half of his tactical squad in area terrain in his corner.

CSM/Necron Turn 1: The daemon prince vectors his scouts on the right flank and kills 4 of them. His shooting attacks fail to finish him off. Two of my annihilation barges take aim at a thunderfire cannon but he makes all of his saves. The remaining barge turbo's to block the others some for the ensuring drop pod. The wraiths move up 12" and run forward a little to put the Dlord up front to maximize his 2+ save. His one remaining scout flee's.

SM turn1: His librarian cast nullzone and jumps in the raider. both thunderfires shoot into the wraiths. The ML also shoots into the wraiths. All of the dakka coming in see's one wraith die. His scout on the right flank auto rally's but fails to do any damage. His drop pod comes in and the strenguard combat squad. He explodes one barge and does 2 hull points to another.

CSM/Necron Turn 2: The heldrake and one cultist squad come in. The heldrake vectors one of the sternguard squads and kills the remaining ones with his bale flamer. The two remaining barges kill off the other 5 man sternguard squad. My daemon prince cast warp speed and charges a thunderfire cannon killing all that oppose him. He does take a wound from snap fire though. The wraiths move towards the scouts on the left flank and manage to charge in and kill them. My cultist hide behind a hill on an objective.

SM turn 2: He moves the landraider back a little. He rolls for reserves and gets both of his storm talons but terminators dont make it on. Both storm talons come on and manage to kill the heldrake. His landraider moves up some and he shoots my wraiths but they make all their saves. The daemon prince takes another wound from shooting. No real other damage is taken.

CSM/Necron Turn 3: All 3 scythe show up and he makes a ton of saves on his storm talons but finally one is vector locked and the other shot down. The daemon prince jumps over and kill his land raider. The wraiths multi-charge the last thunderfire cannon and his 5 warriors. MY annihilation barge in the middle turns and kills his lone scout.

SM turn 3: His terminators deep strike on my side of the board but find themselves surrounded. He shoots and kills my Daemon Prince with the libby tactical squad. At this point though we come to the conclusion that winning is impossible for him and we call the game as I still had all my troops and was capable of taking every objectives at the beginning of the next turn and had the models to win quarters easilly enough.



ROUND 2:
Opponent: Calvin Smarr
His army: Orks/IG
Mission: Two (Scouring, Purge the Alien)
Deployment: Dawn of War
Daemon Prince boon: +1 Toughness; Powers TZ: Breath, BIO: Endurance; Enfeeble
I believe he won the roll of and had me deploy first

His list:
HQ:
Ghazghkull Thraka 225pts

Company Command Squad [IG] 70pts (las cannon)

Elite:
7 PBS [IG] 70pts

Troops:
24 boyz 159
24 boyz 159
11 gretchin 40pts
4 meganobz PK,Skorcha kombi weapon (battlewagon) 240pts

Infantry Platoon:
PCS 4x flamer
Inf Squad with autocannon sgt w. power axe (commissar)
Inf Squad with autocannon sgt w. power axe
Inf Squad with autocannon sgt w. power axe

Fast Attack:
Vendetta [IG] 130pts

Heavy Support:
Big Guns Lobba 84pts
Big Guns Lobba 84pts
Big Guns Lobba 84pts

Pre-game: This is the second game in a row that I think my guard would of had trouble with. Those loota's are nasty. The daemon prince getting toughness 6 make him so much better. The plan is to get him into one of those ork squads and to enfeeble/black mace them to oblivion. I have to avoid Ghazghkull until after he uses up his waaagh! The only issue is he can do it practically whenever. It is getting late here and I am still lacking sufficient sleep. I will let you guys guess the outcome and comment.
I make the exact same deployment as last game. He deploys his big Inf squad behind his aegis. He places his battle wagon on the right flank behind the wall. His loota's are placed one in the middle and one on either flank behind a hill or ruin. His CCS deploys far left behind a hill but with the las up top. He elects not to seize.

I see the Heldrake and all that Tesla having a field day against this list. His lone BW is easy pickins for side shots since you are so mobile. I am not seeing any lootas in his list though. He's at a disadvantage in that the lone Vendetta can't possibly slow down that many fliers. After facing this list in our Vassal game I knew this one was better that the other ones you had posted (possibly the IG/SW list could have been close but not nearly as fun).

Do you really need that deamonprince to be that expensive, i have seen him played before at 265 (just wing, armour mace, tzeentch).
If you dont have iron arm is it worth all the additional points?

 Valek wrote:
Do you really need that deamonprince to be that expensive, i have seen him played before at 265 (just wing, armour mace, tzeentch).
If you dont have iron arm is it worth all the additional points?

Ya know, when TombKing pitched the idea to me a while back I scoffed as well.

Mizzouri wrote:I see the Heldrake and all that Tesla having a field day against this list. His lone BW is easy pickins for side shots since you are so mobile. I am not seeing any lootas in his list though. He's at a disadvantage in that the lone Vendetta can't possibly slow down that many fliers. After facing this list in our Vassal game I knew this one was better that the other ones you had posted (possibly the IG/SW list could have been close but not nearly as fun).

I meant lobba's. He had 3 units of them and my IG would of hated all that indirect fire with re-rolls. Yea the IG/SW would of been kind of hysterical at times if I managed to get enfeeble on 4 psykers. Though that list did have some hard counters and both relic missions would of given me fits.

Valek wrote:Do you really need that deamonprince to be that expensive, i have seen him played before at 265 (just wing, armour mace, tzeentch).
If you dont have iron arm is it worth all the additional points?

Iron army, Enfeeble, Endurance, and Life leach all work pretty well for him. Hell I dont even mind warp speed. The only power I don't want is Hamaerrage. IMHO he is a threat without the powers. With the powers he is a wrecking ball waiting to smash into my opponents lines. Even in games where he didnt do much he was still able to dictate what my opponent was doing. He cant be ignored. In every one of my games he was target priority number one and rightfully so. However, this allowed the rest of my army to move and dictate how I wanted to engage him.

Mizzouri wrote:

 Valek wrote:
Do you really need that deamonprince to be that expensive, i have seen him played before at 265 (just wing, armour mace, tzeentch).
If you dont have iron arm is it worth all the additional points?

Ya know, when TombKing pitched the idea to me a while back I scoffed as well.

Ah yes... but then I showed you the error in your ways... illumination if you will.

Well lets get on with it. Battle Report Updated within the hour with results.

LOL! Illumination eh Dr. Henry Jones?

I see other points though, you basically have made him a one man death star which means he is over kill in most situations and has to recoup his costs through more attrition.

I am not nay saying him though, if he works he works All units have cons after all.

Can we get an army pic at least btw?

ROUND 2:
Opponent: Calvin Smarr
His army: Orks/IG
Mission: Two (Scouring, Purge the Alien)
Deployment: Dawn of War
Daemon Prince boon: +1 Toughness; Powers TZ: Breath, BIO: Endurance; Enfeeble
I believe he won the roll of and had me deploy first

His list:
HQ:
Ghazghkull Thraka 225pts

Company Command Squad [IG] 70pts (las cannon)

Elite:
7 PBS [IG] 70pts

Troops:
24 boyz 159
24 boyz 159
11 gretchin 40pts
4 meganobz PK,Skorcha kombi weapon (battlewagon) 240pts

Infantry Platoon:
PCS 4x flamer
Inf Squad with autocannon sgt w. power axe (commissar)
Inf Squad with autocannon sgt w. power axe
Inf Squad with autocannon sgt w. power axe

Fast Attack:
Vendetta [IG] 130pts

Heavy Support:
Big Guns Lobba 84pts
Big Guns Lobba 84pts
Big Guns Lobba 84pts

Pre-game: This is the second game in a row that I think my guard would of had trouble with. Those lobba's are nasty. The daemon prince getting toughness 6 make him so much better. The plan is to get him into one of those ork squads and to enfeeble/black mace them to oblivion. I have to avoid Ghazghkull until after he uses up his waaagh! The only issue is he can do it practically whenever. It is getting late here and I am still lacking sufficient sleep. I will let you guys guess the outcome and comment.
I make the exact same deployment as last game. He deploys his big Inf squad behind his aegis. He places his battle wagon on the right flank behind the wall. His lobba's are placed one in the middle and one on either flank behind a hill or ruin. His CCS deploys far left behind a hill but with the las up top. One unit of boyz deploys next to his blob squad and the other in a ruins to my right. I believe I have a picture of his deployment at the end of my turn 1. Its the only picture I have of the event but it shows my general tactics on my first move.


NECRON/CSM TURN 1:
I cast endurance on my prince and move him up to the ruins on the right side. Trying to avoid being seen by the majority of his ork boyz who would love to dakka me out of the sky. My barges move out and attempt some side shots on his battlewagon but do to lack of pen results and my opponent making some nice 4+ saves I am unable to do much to it. On the left flank my Battle barge moves up and shoots his CCS killing all but the commander as he was behind the hill. Was an early attempt at first blood.

Orks/IG Turn 1: He contemplates moving the battle wagon out and throwing the nobz+Thraka at me but elects not to as I am barely out of good odds for a charge. As seen in the picture above he moves a few of the boyz out of the ruins and takes some pot shots at my prince. He manages to get through and cause 1 wound. I roll a 2 for the save and then fail my FnP. The odds of a 16% X 16% X 16% with a further 66% of that happening (less then 1%) without calculating that he had 8 shots of course. Luckily the prince stays in the air. He fires with his blob at the prince as well and manages to cause another wound. FnP isnt helping me stay alive in this one. It seems like 2's are the bane of my prince throughout the event. Again compensating for this the prince remains in the air. His lobba's all target my wraiths but dont cause too much damage. I think I lose a wound or two.


NECRON/CSM TURN 2: I roll reserves and manage to get my heldrake, cultist, and 1 DS. The DS decides to go for his Company commander to ensure I get first blood. The Heldrake seeing the blob bunched up decides to go for 8 to 10 guardsman. The cultist run in the back left corner of my spawn and stay hidden and hoping to avoid IDF. I decide to go bold this turn. With the prince wounded twice I cant continue forward into the middle of his lines. So I give him FnP again and enfeeble the orks in the ruins. I move to the far right behind the ruins to charge an ork in the open. This keeps his lobba's and a bunch of orks inbetween me and Thraka. My wraiths advance up the center and I make up my mind to charge the blob. I am pretty sure I will get counter charged by his orks in their but I am hoping to do enough damage for it not to matter. All 3 barge's target his battle wagon again but my opponent is content with a 4+ save and I only manage to do 1 more hull point. My DS kills off his CCS earning me first blood. The heldrake uses daemonforge but it isnt needed as I roll no ones. He kills 9 guardman including a sgt or two. The Daemon prince charges into the orks and their snap shots manage to cause a wound, again a 2 to save, and a failed FnP. . My prince is gonna die before doing anything at this rate. Luckily he survives combat and kills a lot of orks... including the nob, with the combo of 9 attacks and then black mace. My wraiths hit his blob in full force and manage to reduce it to 5 or 6 models and I take no damage in return as my lord eats saves.

Orks/IG turn 2: His vendetta shows up and immediately sets an attack vector for the heldrake. He didn't shoot it down but caused damage including taking off the flamer. His PBS arrives from reserves and weaken resolves my cultist. Fortunately his lobba's that are in range scatter too far and I dont even have to roll the save. Thraka gets out of the battle wagon and attempts to move around the lobba's to charge my prince. He rolls a 7 and fails the charge as he was saving his wagh. As expected he moved the orks in the middle to counter charge my wraiths. MY Dlord had consolidated towards his battle wagon in the combat as I expected a possible charge from the nobz but my opponent elected not to deal with MSS scarabs and the possibility of instant killing his own squad. He charged my wraiths but I somehow make 12 straight saves and fail to take a single wound from the orks. The wraiths in response finish off the blob and take out several of the orks. On the right flank I slaughter some more orks and he declares a wagh to keep them from fleeing but so many died that we are unable to keep the combat. I consolidate with the prince, and he consolidates with his 5 remaining orks.


NECRON/CSM TURN 3: I roll and get both night scythe's in and they line up to kill his newly arrived vendetta. All 3 scythes are set to kill it. My prince wishing to do nothing with thraka is planning to fly to the middle and kill the lobba's group there. Seeing all of this and his lines practically broken my opponent concedes the game.





GAME 3 PRE-GAME:
ROUND 3:
Opponent: Philip Dubbe (Minnesota I believe)
His army: GK/IG
Mission: Three (Relic, Modified Emperors will(one in each deployment zone+one in other players deployment zone 4 total only 2 you can control))
Deployment: Dawn of War
Daemon Prince boon: No effect; Powers TZ: Breath, BIO: Hamerrage, Warp Speed
The game starts out with night fighting.
We roll off to go first and he wins the roll and elects to go first.

His list: (didnt manage to get a copy but roughly the following)
Coteaz
Lord Commissar [IG]

2x10 man Shrike squad w/ psyycannons and psybolt ammo
IG BLOB 4x Infantry squad with auto cannons
2x5 acolyte squads in rhino with plasma

Vendetta with pcs inside
Stormraven

Manticore

Aegis defense line with quadgun

1750pts

Deployment: He places the AGL a little bit in front of his lines and has his IG Blob back some deployed in the open behind it but with some stretching around to wrap up his manticore which is sitting sideways behind some ruins out of LOS for the most part. He places an acolyte squad on each flank with their plasma's in support. He sets up coteaz with a shrilke squad ready to run up to the quad gun. He places one shrike in the stormraven in reserve and the pcs in the vendetta in reserve. The commissar lord joins the blob. I deploy the same but back a little more to make sure I stay over 36" away from his manticore and a safe distance. I set my prince up on the right flank to see if there is a way to get to his manticore. My wraiths are in the left center as well as 2 of my barges. Essentially my army is in an echelon left formation respecting the range of the manticore turn 1.

Pre-game analysis: The manticore is actually a significant threat to my army. It cant take on my barge's pretty easilly and it can instant kill all of my hammers if I fail the saves. It goes without saying that it is a priority target. I already started this game off rough not getitng a boon and rolling the crappiest combination of powers for the army I was facing. Put this on top of going second and I am in a tough spot. Coteaz gets foreboding and prescience making me eventually having to fight them even less desirable. The stormraven is a secondary threat for my prince. I will need to stay in the air when it comes in or I could risk losing him to perils.

Thoughts and predictions??? I will post results tomorrow... time dependent

I agree with your assessment in that the Manticore and Stormraven are strong threats. I'll add that Coteaz wielding a Quadgun with Prescience could hit those Night Scythes hard. Unless that Manticore is completely hidden I see it getting off 1, maybe 2 shots before you are rid of it. Aggressive use of the DP might be necessary.

I think you'll take game #3. It's going to be brutal once you get your DP into that blob squad.

GAME 3 PRE-GAME:
ROUND 3:
Opponent: Philip Dubbe (Minnesota I believe)
His army: GK/IG
Mission: Three (Relic, Modified Emperors will(one in each deployment zone+one in other players deployment zone 4 total only 2 you can control))
Deployment: Dawn of War
Daemon Prince boon: No effect; Powers TZ: Detonate, BIO: Hamerrage, Warp Speed
The game starts out with night fighting.
We roll off to go first and he wins the roll and elects to go first.

His list:


Coteaz: 100

Strike Squad(10): Psycannons x2 and Psybolt Ammo 240
Henchmen(5): 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino 80
Henchmen(5): 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino 80

Purifiers(10): Psycannons x4, Halberds x5, and Daemon Hammer 295

Storm Raven: Twin-Linked Multi-Melta and Twin-Linked Lascannon 205

Lord Commissar: 70

Platoon Command Squad(5): 4x Flamers 50
4x Infantry Squad: Autocannon 240

Vendetta: 130

Manticore: 160

Aegis Line: Quadgun 100

Deployment: He places the AGL a little bit in front of his lines and has his IG Blob back some deployed in the open behind it but with some stretching around to wrap up his manticore which is sitting sideways behind some ruins out of LOS for the most part. He places an acolyte squad on each flank with their plasma's in support. He sets up coteaz with a shrike squad ready to run up to the quad gun. He places one shrike in the stormraven in reserve and the pcs in the vendetta in reserve. The commissar lord joins the blob. I deploy the same but back a little more to make sure I stay over 36" away from his manticore and a safe distance. I set my prince up on the right flank to see if there is a way to get to his manticore. My wraiths are in the left center as well as 2 of my barges. Essentially my army is in an echelon left formation respecting the range of the manticore turn 1.

Opponent Pregame Analysis: My thoughts going in to this was hoping to get first turn with no night fighting. I wanted to hopefully get at least two rounds of shooting with the manticore before you were in my lines. I kept the purifiers in the raven to avoid being flamed by the dragon and hoping that the raven would come in soon enough to add their support where they were needed. I knew this was going to be rough off the bat due to my lack of anything higher then Strength 7 to starting on the board to punch through your barges. I wanted the strikes to head towards the relic depending on how things went with the prince and wraiths.

My Pre-game analysis: The manticore is actually a significant threat to my army. It cant take on my barge's pretty easilly and it can instant kill all of my hammers if I fail the saves. It goes without saying that it is a priority target. I already started this game off rough not getting a boon and rolling the crappiest combination of powers for the army I was facing. Put this on top of going second and I am in a tough spot. Coteaz gets foreboding and prescience making me eventually having to fight them even less desirable. The stormraven is a secondary threat for my prince. I will need to stay in the air when it comes in or I could risk losing him to perils. I fail to seize...

GK/IG Turn 1: My deployment keeps me safe for the time being and he pops off a few shots at my barge's but no real damage due to night fight.

Necron/CSM Turn 1: I move conservatively on turn 1 making sure to avoid the manticore's wrath with the wraiths. They move up towards the left flank and the Dlord places himself on the inside ready to take the damage from the shrike squad in the middle. The daemon prince takes a more direct method. I have him move up the right flank a full 24" placing him in the rear armor of the manticore for a possible detonate shot while also denying los for the rest of the army via the ruins placed on that flank(wanted to minimize his autocannons and quadgun shooting at me, see above picture for the look of duplicate ruins per table). The barge on the left flank moves up and wrecks his rhino on the left flank claiming first blood. The other two barges try to hit the quadgun as I am relatively sure I dont want that shooting my doomscythe's. I fire the detonate at the manticore and it hits and pens . However, my opponent does have stealth via night fight. He rolls a . That sucks. Well We will see if I go down and eat a manticore round to the face.

GK/IG Turn 2: His vendetta comes in and luckily only does one wound to the prince. He starts off with trying to down the prince with his henchman squad in the rhino on the right flank. I take a plasma wound but the battered prince stays in flight. With my prince out of line of sight to most of his army he decides to focus on the wraiths. Coteaz passed both his powers and they unleash what seems like a momentous amount of firepower into the wraiths. It didnt seem like he would ever stop rolling and he hit nearly 100%. With the Dlord up front he took a good number of the saves but had to bounce to the squad. Between this fire and the manticore I lose 3 of my 5 wraiths, one wraith holds one wound and the dlord has taken 2 wounds. His autocannons shoot at my wraiths as well but I make the saves.

Mid-Game Analysis: Okay, I have a little more respect for coteaz and his shrike buddies. I am in a bit of a tight spot here because if I charge them with the wraiths they fire at normal bs and are twin linked. It would be suicide, but I also have no way of absorbing that amount of dakka again. I conteplate sending the prince at them but he is a little far. The prince is also eye balling the manticore but my opponent has done an awesome job bubble wrapping it with his guard. I really need my reserves to come in here or this could get ugly quick. That vendetta has to go.... its a priority threat as well as it can really damage my barge's, any of my fliers, and/or my prince.


Necron/CSM Turn 2: I roll for reserves and get 3 scythe's, a cultist squad, and the heldrake(sorely needed). I decide to do a multitude of things here. His shrike squad is in a great formation for me to get 6 to 7 with the baleflamer so I move him up to deal with that threat. One scythe moves up to try and get a shot at the manticore and the other scythe moves to the center just past the relic to block a possible charge from his shrike squad. I disembark these warriors and grab the relic in the middle terrain they have pretty decent cover by the cliff like terrain. The daemon prince see's a golden opportunity of 40 some odd guardsman in a congo line and a possible raven coming in next turn I elect to land on the objective placed in the ruins and charge the guard blob(even if I get locked for the game I cancel out a large majority of his shooting and contest an objective in the process. The wraiths on the left flank move up to charge his henchman that are now in the open. The dlord seperates though and joins the warriors in the middle to take hits for them if need be(I place him just before the guy with the actual relic).

He intercepts my heldrake and gets a pen and a glance. I save neither and he takes off my only weapon... the baleflamer . I really needed that damn thing. I shoot two barges into his strike squad and manage to take 3 down but that isnt nearly enough. I fire at his manticore with two of my newly arrived scythes. He gets a 4+ cover so mitigates some of the damage on the shots that manage to do any. I do remove a weapon but unfortunately its only the hull weapon. . One scythe on the right flank shoots the vendetta but it stays alive. My barge on the right flank shoots his vendetta and this time it comes crashing to the ground... all of the pcs die except one flamer and he falls back never to rally. The daemon prince charges the blob and issues a challenge. He kills a sgt and several guard die from the mace... so begins the battle of attrition.

GK/IG Turn 3: My opponents storm raven fails to come in again(this is huge). Again coteaz cast both powers and they move over to get most of the guys los to the middle. He leaves the quadgun to do this as he cant fire it either way. They fire at the warriors in the middle again to devastating affect. I go to ground to get a +1 to my cover and manage to save a majority of them... all but 2 and the lord die. His manticore takes a shot at them next and kills one more warrior and the dlord makes a save. With the scythe in the way he cant charge. On the right flank he moves the rhino up a little. I make reanimation protocols in the middle and 3 of the 4 warriors that died get back up. The combat between the prince repeats itself another sgt dies and the mace eats some more guardsman... the commissar still keeps the combat locked.


Necron/CSM Turn 3: The warriors arrive from reserve and join the cultist on the left flank to ge the two objectives I have place there. The heldrake vectors his manticore and it finally dies. With his storm raven off the board still I make moves to acquire his quadgun for the next turn. I place the last 2 wraiths in-between his shrikes and warriors with the relic and prep for a 4" run move to get the quadgun. The warriors pull back. Two of the scythes line up for shots on Coteaz and company and one leaves the board. One barge shoots his right rhino and takes it out of the fight. The two barges in the middle advance and one goes 12" ready to turbo to his quadgun if the wraiths fail their run move. My doom scythe fires into Shrikes and the shot arcs into the quad gun killing it. My opponent at my misfortune and I joking state, "Fine the flat out barge will just shoot at you then." I then proceed to roll 3 's with top gun and 1 with the bottom gun. Effectively putting out the most damage all day with a vehicle that needed 's to even hit. It was quite silly but we both had a good laugh at the turn of events. After all my barge's and scythes shoot and the smoke clears not even Coteaz is left standing.

Late game Analysis: With the prince eating more guardsman and the blob dwindling the game is practically decided. We play to see if he can gets some points in the fight.

GK/IG Turn 4: His storm raven shows up and moves to deny one of my objectives on the left flank. He fires into the warriors with the relic but I dont take much damage.

We quickly sim just heldrake vectoring the storm raven and it becomes vector locked and loses two hull points with the barge's and scythe's still left to shoot at it. We call the game here as the game is all but over.


Results:

Good job on that one. It was curious you got so aggressive with the wraiths and DLord before you had the Heldrake on the board. Knowing you, the terrain layout played a huge part in that decision.

jy2 wrote:I think you'll take game #3. It's going to be brutal once you get your DP into that blob squad.

Yea it proved to be his undoing as the prince gradually killed off the entire squad. I was fortunate to also land on an objective to initiate the fight just in case I became locked in that combat.

Mizzouri wrote:Good job on that one. It was curious you got so aggressive with the wraiths and DLord before you had the Heldrake on the board. Knowing you, the terrain layout played a huge part in that decision.

The wraiths were decimated before they could get there with enough strength to kill anything. I had them on the left of the middle piece of terrain and was hoping he wouldnt focus on them but his target priority was spot on and I nearly went bankrupt. Being able to secure the relic on turn 2 was crucial IMHO it put the nail in the coffin in this one.


Sorry for the longish reports I can space them out more if needed. Not sure if people are wanting the detailed report or just the meat and the potatoes of each turn. I can present the report with my reasoning for doing things or just state what happened and when. Let me know.

Well so it continues:

ROUND 4:
Opponent: Michael Cogswell (I believe an Indy local)
His army: Eldar/GK
Mission: 4 (Big guns never tire objectives being terrain, purge the alien)
Deployment: Vanguard Strike
Daemon Prince boon: +1 Init; Powers TZ: Boon, BIO: Life Leach, Warp Speed
The game starts out with night fighting.
We roll off to go first and I win the roll to go first.

His army:
HQ:
Farseer (runes of witnessing; singing spear; spirit stone; powers: doom, guide, & Fortune)
Fuegan The Burning Lance

Troops:
3 guardian jetbike
3 guardian jetbike
8 harlequins (shadowseer; 2x fusion pistol; harlequins kiss)

Heavy:
3x Warwalkers (2x Scatter Lasers)
WraithLord (dual flamer; shurikan cannon)

Allied GK:

Coteaz (really begining to hate this guy )

Troops:
10 Strike Squad (2x psycannon and psybolt ammo)
10 Strike Squad (2x psycannon and psybolt ammo)

Heavy:
Nemesis Dreadknight (Heavy Incinerator)


I will leave you all with some time to comment on the possible outcome and perhaps how you want the report delivered. I need to eat and shower as I am covered in dirt and grime from a 12 hour field exercise in windy dust bowl like conditions.

Hey Tomb King this is Philip your 3rd round opponent. That DP getting into the blob was definitely what started the unravelling of that game. If I would have been able to ground him with the vendetta it would have been a closer game but it still would have been an uphill battle for me. Are you thinking your going to take a similar list to that to Adepticon?

Remedy4389 wrote:
Hey Tomb King this is Philip your 3rd round opponent. That DP getting into the blob was definitely what started the unravelling of that game. If I would have been able to ground him with the vendetta it would have been a closer game but it still would have been an uphill battle for me. Are you thinking your going to take a similar list to that to Adepticon?

Hey whats up man. Yea your vendetta had me worried. I was just hoping if you wounded three times I would love to save at least one of them. I managed to escape the whole turn only losing two wounds which was pretty nice. Also would it be possible to get your list for the report? Looking through them all you army list was the only one I failed to keep a copy of haha.

As for Adepticon.. It is really hard to say. I dont currently have a slot for the 40k champs this year but then again that didn't stop me last year. What might stop me is my training. I have a course slotted from 8-19 April that might keep me from participating. However, if I can make it I will most likely be running a variant of that list at Adepticon. I liked how fast the army plays and the list is almost unnaturally resilient. Will have to see how much I like the new daemon codex. Random is fun... but can it also be competitive... haha!

Side note: If you had a game or a pre-game analysis you wanna add to the 3rd round report I will throw it in there. Sometimes the people reading like to see the battlefield from both points of view.

Absolutley here was the run down of my list:

Coteaz: 100

Strike Squad(10): Psycannons x2 and Psybolt Ammo 240
Henchmen(5): 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino 80
Henchmen(5): 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino 80

Purifiers(10): Psycannons x4, Halberds x5, and Daemon Hammer 295

Storm Raven: Twin-Linked Multi-Melta and Twin-Linked Lascannon 205

Lord Commissar: 70

Platoon Command Squad(5): 4x Flamers 50
4x Infantry Squad: Autocannon 240

Vendetta: 130

Manticore: 160

Aegis Line: Quadgun 100

My thoughts going in to this was hoping to get first turn with no night fighting. I wanted to hopefully get at least two rounds of shooting with the manticore before you were in my lines. I kept the purifiers in the raven to avoid being flamed by the dragon and hoping that the raven would come in soon enough to add their support where they were needed. I knew this was going to be rough off the bat due to my lack of anything higher then Strength 7 to starting on the board to punch through your barges. I wanted the strikes to head towards the relic depending on how things went with the prince and wraiths.

In hind sight though once I had secured first turn I should have gone balls to the wall with the purifiers on the board. This would have let me put out more fire power initially but would have caused more issues trying to contest your objectives.

Well hopefully you go to adepticon because I'm gonna be looking for a rematch! Daemons look like they could be interesting. They are so fast they will be on your side of the table at the end of their first turn.

Remedy4389 wrote:
Absolutley here was the run down of my list:

Coteaz: 100

Strike Squad(10): Psycannons x2 and Psybolt Ammo 240
Henchmen(5): 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino 80
Henchmen(5): 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino 80

Purifiers(10): Psycannons x4, Halberds x5, and Daemon Hammer 295

Storm Raven: Twin-Linked Multi-Melta and Twin-Linked Lascannon 205

Lord Commissar: 70

Platoon Command Squad(5): 4x Flamers 50
4x Infantry Squad: Autocannon 240

Vendetta: 130

Manticore: 160

Aegis Line: Quadgun 100

My thoughts going in to this was hoping to get first turn with no night fighting. I wanted to hopefully get at least two rounds of shooting with the manticore before you were in my lines. I kept the purifiers in the raven to avoid being flamed by the dragon and hoping that the raven would come in soon enough to add their support where they were needed. I knew this was going to be rough off the bat due to my lack of anything higher then Strength 7 to starting on the board to punch through your barges. I wanted the strikes to head towards the relic depending on how things went with the prince and wraiths.

In hind sight though once I had secured first turn I should have gone balls to the wall with the purifiers on the board. This would have let me put out more fire power initially but would have caused more issues trying to contest your objectives.

Well hopefully you go to adepticon because I'm gonna be looking for a rematch! Daemons look like they could be interesting. They are so fast they will be on your side of the table at the end of their first turn.

Yea having a full 500 points of your army off the board until turn 4 is pretty rough. I never have been a fan of the storm raven. That has been only increased by the auto-reserve requirement. IMO they are just simply too expensive for what they bring. Add that to the fact that they might not show up until turn 4 and your missing something you most likely needed 2 turns ago. They can be powerful and very useful but I have seen the situation you had to endure too many times. Most of the time facing storm ravens my opponent doesn't get them in until late.

Another wonky list, your 4th round opponent. His lack of mobility may hurt him. I predict that you target and kill off all his troops to win it.

BTW, the harlequins are not troops....unless he gets the scoring Warlord trait and his Warlord is with the harlequins.

 jy2 wrote:
Another wonky list, your 4th round opponent. His lack of mobility may hurt him. I predict that you target and kill off all his troops to win it.

BTW, the harlequins are not troops....unless he gets the scoring Warlord trait and his Warlord is with the harlequins.

I thought as much as well when I saw that. I was like wow I didn't know they were troops. That seems very survivable. Matter of fact I knew they weren't scoring because I have eldar. Maybe I just didnt realize because I hadn't slept in 30+ hours. The issue with killing his troops is the game is big guns never tire. His troops include a dreadknight and a wraithlord. In addition, I was playing against him thinking harlequins were troops for that game. I will try to get the report up tonight. Havent heard back on which style people are wanting.

ROUND 4:
Opponent: Michael Cogswell (I believe an Indy local)
His army: Eldar/GK
Mission: 4 (Big guns never tire objectives being terrain, purge the alien)
Deployment: Vanguard Strike
Daemon Prince boon: +1 Init; Powers TZ: Boon, BIO: Life Leach, Warp Speed
The game starts out with night fighting.
We roll off to go first and I win the roll to go first.

His army:
HQ:
Farseer (runes of witnessing; singing spear; spirit stone; powers: doom, guide, & Fortune)
Fuegan The Burning Lance

Troops:
3 guardian jetbike
3 guardian jetbike
8 harlequins (shadowseer; 2x fusion pistol; harlequins kiss)

Heavy:
3x Warwalkers (2x Scatter Lasers)
WraithLord (dual flamer; shurikan cannon)

Allied GK:

Coteaz (really begining to hate this guy )

Troops:
10 Strike Squad (2x psycannon and psybolt ammo)
10 Strike Squad (2x psycannon and psybolt ammo)

Heavy:
Nemesis Dreadknight (Heavy Incinerator)

Pregame analysis: Alright this is a mission I think I am comfortable doing. I have 3 scoring AV13 AB's and my opponents anti-mech isnt too great. I consider his biggest threats to be the dreadknight and the strike squads. I would also like to see his warwalkers taken out before they have a chance to bring down my fliers. If I can get first blood and keep my 3 AB's alive for the duration of the game I should be able to pull this one out.

Deployment: I deploy the same as I have all tournament except we are diagonal. My opponent surprises me with his deployment. He castles in the corner as he is trying to negate my armies fire power for a turn or two. It makes sense my army does have a decent amount of dakka but with only three barges to start on the board it is going to allow me to get my fliers in and hit him all at once. He deploys both characters with the harlequins in area terrain. He places both strike squad units on the board combat squading one. Coteaz joins the 10 man strike squad. He out flanks the warwalkers, and reserves the wraithlord, jetbikesx2, and the dreadknight which is going to deep strike.

He rolls to seize and fails to seize the initiative.

Necron/CSM Turn 1:

Eldar/GK Turn 1:
Necron/CSM Turn 2:

Eldar/GK Turn 2:

Necron/CSM Turn 3:

Eldar/GK Turn 3:

Mid-Game Analysis:

Necron/CSM Turn 4:

Eldar/GK Turn 4:

Necron/CSM Turn 5:

Eldar/GK Turn 5:

Turn 6:


Results:

I like this format of battle report. Was this the easiest battle so far, because his list looks to be the least threatening to you?

Mizzouri wrote:
I like this format of battle report. Was this the easiest battle so far, because his list looks to be the least threatening to you?

Wont lie, I was looking over at JY2's and liked breaking it up more then one block of text so I elected to join the spoiler club. I would have to say of the armies I had the face I felt his was the least prepared to deal with mine. He did have the two strike squads and the psycannons were a threat but once they were taken out I could move around without fear of heavy weaponry coming to bare.

Suppose if I want to ever finish this GT report I should get a move on it.


Round 5:
Opponent: Will Loy
His army: SW/IG
Mission: 5 (Crusade, & purge the alien)
Deployment: Dawm of War
Daemon Prince boon: I think it was +1 AS ; Powers TZ: Detonate Bio: Iron Arm, Warp Speed
We roll off to go first and I win the roll to go first.


His army:
HQ:
Rune Priest in Power Armor

Elite:
3 Wolf Guard terminator pack (power-axe/Combi-Melta)

Troops:
10 Grey Hunters (Mark of the Wulfen, 2x melta gun, 1x power axe)
10 Grey Hunters (Mark of the Wulfen, 2x melta gun, 1x power axe)
10 Grey Hunters (Mark of the Wulfen, 2x melta gun, 1x power axe)

Heavy Support:
6 Long Fangs (5x ML)
6 Long Fangs (5x ML)
6 Long Fangs (5x ML)

Allies:

HQ:
CCS (4x Melta; Chimera)

Troops:
Infantry Platoon
--PCS (4x Flamer)
---Infantry Squad (AC; Chimera)
---Infantry Squad (AC)

Fast Attack:
1 Vendetta

Total 1749pts

Pre-game Analysis: I finally got iron arm on game 5. However, he has a rune priest and can shut me down pretty reliably so it is kind of bitter sweet. The rune priest well definitely be a priority target. In addition, all of his long fangs can make pretty short work of my daemon prince if I am not careful. With or without iron arm. In addition, 15 missle launchers can really take down some barge's with weight of dice. It only takes one penetrate to reduce my armor to 11. TBH this is a match-up I am not looking forward to playing. It will most likely be a close one. I cant remember if my boon was +1 AS on the prince. I think it was which gave my prince a good boost form the missle launchers but he still has at least 13 melta guns in his army.

What are your alls predictions and thoughts.

Lots of foot sloggers in his list and a lot of mobility in yours. I favor you in this matchup as he really has nothing to deal with the Heldrake and DLord with wraiths. Your DP can't be ignored and that seems just fine as that will leave your gunboats free to shoot at will.

Game #5 is going to be a tough call. If your opponent is as skilled as some of the players who have ran this type of list before (Tony Kopach, Alan Bajramovich), you are going to be in trouble. However, you may be able to overcome someone less adept. My prediction is that you lose your daemon prince but you manage to pull it off by the skin of your nose in a tight, closely-contested game.

I think you have this one. Your opponent has a lot of boots on the ground, but he skimped on flyer defense and this will be a major weakness against your list. Ultimately, I think this style of list is very "early 6th" and has not adapted well to later releases and metagame developments.

jy2 wrote:Game #5 is going to be a tough call. If your opponent is as skilled as some of the players who have ran this type of list before (Tony Kopach, Alan Bajramovich), you are going to be in trouble. However, you may be able to overcome someone less adept. My prediction is that you lose your daemon prince but you manage to pull it off by the skin of your nose in a tight, closely-contested game.

Even with iron arm and a 2+ armor save you still dont have any faith in the prince. We will have to see. I actually managed to acquire two pictures from this game via the interwebs. I will try to get this report done up either tomorrow night or most likely wednesday night. Getting hammered on the work load this week.

Kingsley wrote:I think you have this one. Your opponent has a lot of boots on the ground, but he skimped on flyer defense and this will be a major weakness against your list. Ultimately, I think this style of list is very "early 6th" and has not adapted well to later releases and metagame developments.

Not every list has to deal with fliers. Some list are designed to just ignore the fliers as a whole such as my current daemons build. However, even if he is snap firing he still posses 15 missile launchers and a couple of auto cannons that can really do a number on my night scythe's.

Meh, a list with 4 overpowered fliers and one flying MCs against lists with no or very little reliable anti-flier. The outcomes of these battles was pretty obvious as soon as I saw the lists. Just shows how imbalanced fliers are right now. Anyway, good job on winning.

Also, why did the SM player deepstrike his termies vs a crapton of shooting? Was he drunk, or just a noob? xD Anyway, his list sucked and he would've lost even if he had killed all of your wraiths.

EDIT: I have no idea why lots of people are like "this game is gonna be a tough call". xD

GJ Tomb King, the Daemon Prince is ridiculous and i'm glad he worked out for you. My regards that a certain blue-blogger is out their critiquing you from behind his desk..

I apologize for the slightly OTT, but I wonder why that certain blue-blogger hasn't made any comments about the BAO winner?

 Giganthrax wrote:
Meh, a list with 4 overpowered fliers and one flying MCs against lists with no or very little reliable anti-flier. The outcomes of these battles was pretty obvious as soon as I saw the lists. Just shows how imbalanced fliers are right now. Anyway, good job on winning.

I disagree. Fliers are good, but most of the lists have fliers to counter fliers.

I think a lot of the lists can beat him, it is just that the players lack the know-how.

For example: Game #1 why deepstrike the terminaters? He is rushing forward with a Demon Prince and Wraiths so he needs to keep his army together and counter-attack with the termintors assaulting out of the land raider. Game #3 why put the purifiers in reserve? He is going second so that is several turns that they could be shooting. Yes the heldrake can fry some, but his flyers should take it down.

 jy2 wrote:
I apologize for the slightly OTT, but I wonder why that certain blue-blogger hasn't made any comments about the BAO winner?

I'm sure it will come, lol.

If you don't have the ability to deal with 2 AV12 flyers or 5 AV11 flyers in a list then you're not building your list correctly. Bear in mind that dealing with can include ignoring.

As for Tombking's list it's not 100% optomized but it leaves space for him to adjust as needed. Most good lists are like this though his relies a little to much on pre-game dice for me I can see how it works.

 Tomb King wrote:

Kingsley wrote:I think you have this one. Your opponent has a lot of boots on the ground, but he skimped on flyer defense and this will be a major weakness against your list. Ultimately, I think this style of list is very "early 6th" and has not adapted well to later releases and metagame developments.

Not every list has to deal with fliers. Some list are designed to just ignore the fliers as a whole such as my current daemons build. However, even if he is snap firing he still posses 15 missile launchers and a couple of auto cannons that can really do a number on my night scythe's.

The problem is that if he attempts to deal with your fliers, he has no game against your Wraiths and Barges. If he attempts to deal with your Wraiths and Barges, your Heldrake and Scythes will rip him up. I think you have just too many threats for him to deal with, even with Split Fire.

 Kingsley wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:

Kingsley wrote:I think you have this one. Your opponent has a lot of boots on the ground, but he skimped on flyer defense and this will be a major weakness against your list. Ultimately, I think this style of list is very "early 6th" and has not adapted well to later releases and metagame developments.

Not every list has to deal with fliers. Some list are designed to just ignore the fliers as a whole such as my current daemons build. However, even if he is snap firing he still posses 15 missile launchers and a couple of auto cannons that can really do a number on my night scythe's.

The problem is that if he attempts to deal with your fliers, he has no game against your Wraiths and Barges. If he attempts to deal with your Wraiths and Barges, your Heldrake and Scythes will rip him up. I think you have just too many threats for him to deal with, even with Split Fire.

You have managed to see the strength of the list where others see a lack luster list. That is precisely why the list does so well. On paper the list may look like crap. However, it is hard to target prioritize against because of the amount of units that can reliably threaten the enemy. Often people pick either the wraiths or the daemon prince on turn one and shoot everything they got at him. This usually leaves the counter-part unhindered as well as my dakka platforms. There is no real right answer. If my opponent has an off shooting phase turn 1 and fails to do any real damage then I am on him turn two with at least one charge possibly three. All the while my AB's are picking off their troops in the open or medium to light armor. This isnt even considering what reserves I get turn 2. The list hits like a truck and has a lot of impetuous even after initial contact.

For those criticizing the list. I respect your comments and I will let you know that I am taking the list to Adepticon if I am able to attend. The only addition to the list is one more night scythe for the foot slogging warriors. You are welcome to take a crack at it. In addition, I am curious... What would be your target priority and why?

To people reading report. I am trying to get time for game 5 but I am a stifling work load this week. So it may be delayed until as late as Friday. My apologies!

 jy2 wrote:
I apologize for the slightly OTT, but I wonder why that certain blue-blogger hasn't made any comments about the BAO winner?

He hates Forge World, didn't plan to attend and as far as I know he doesn't normally comment on tournaments. In all likelihood he won't say anything about it, even when it's a good example of FW being widely used. I don't really get what he's been ranting about against 6th either but I live in the UK so it's very different here. Basically, he hasn't before and probably never will comment on the BAO.

As for Tomb Kings army, I'm still not sold on the Daemon Prince but the results speak for themselves. It's certainly an impressive win and I'd be interested to see if such an army survives with Sabre platforms around. Looking forwards to seeing the rest of the reports!

 Tomb King wrote:

You have managed to see the strength of the list where others see a lack luster list. That is precisely why the list does so well. On paper the list may look like crap. However, it is hard to target prioritize against because of the amount of units that can reliably threaten the enemy. Often people pick either the wraiths or the daemon prince on turn one and shoot everything they got at him. This usually leaves the counter-part unhindered as well as my dakka platforms. There is no real right answer. If my opponent has an off shooting phase turn 1 and fails to do any real damage then I am on him turn two with at least one charge possibly three. All the while my AB's are picking off their troops in the open or medium to light armor. This isnt even considering what reserves I get turn 2. The list hits like a truck and has a lot of impetuous even after initial contact.

For those criticizing the list. I respect your comments and I will let you know that I am taking the list to Adepticon if I am able to attend. The only addition to the list is one more night scythe for the foot slogging warriors. You are welcome to take a crack at it. In addition, I am curious... What would be your target priority and why?

To people reading report. I am trying to get time for game 5 but I am a stifling work load this week. So it may be delayed until as late as Friday. My apologies!

Your army is very solid. It plays somewhat very similar to my pure necrons:

Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, ResOrb
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, ResOrb

5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors

6x Canoptek Wraiths - 2x Whip Coils
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 1x Whip Coils

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Doom Scythe


I've got a double threat in 2 fast wraithwing deathstars and a specialized flyer - the doom scythe - to take on mech and tough infantry. You've got a double threat in a wraithstar and your DP as well as a specialized flyer - the heldrake - to take on normal infantry. Both lists play similarly and does require a little finesse. You need to bide your time and wait for Turn 2 when you hit your opponent with the full force of your army. Few armies can handle that type of pressure. I can definitely see this type of army winning tournaments. The DP can survive as long as you play him with care (i.e. you basically need to hide him until support arrives).

Very well done so far.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eyjio wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I apologize for the slightly OTT, but I wonder why that certain blue-blogger hasn't made any comments about the BAO winner?

He hates Forge World, didn't plan to attend and as far as I know he doesn't normally comment on tournaments. In all likelihood he won't say anything about it, even when it's a good example of FW being widely used. I don't really get what he's been ranting about against 6th either but I live in the UK so it's very different here. Basically, he hasn't before and probably never will comment on the BAO.

As for Tomb Kings army, I'm still not sold on the Daemon Prince but the results speak for themselves. It's certainly an impressive win and I'd be interested to see if such an army survives with Sabre platforms around. Looking forwards to seeing the rest of the reports!

He will if someone brings it up. I'm surprised no one there has brought it up.

The DP is actually a support character and as long as you can take the heat off of him (i.e. support him with the rest of your army), then he can actually excel as we have seen so far in Tomb King's games. The trick is to keep him out of LOS from the enemy shooting (or to minimize it at least) so that he has a chance to make it into combat. As long as his 2 wrecking squads can survive until his flyers come in, then he's in very good shape. The flyers and annihilation barges actually do the majority of the damage in many cases. Tesla-destructor-spam is a very under-rated necron secret. Most people focus in on the wraiths, but it is their shooting that will wear you down in the long haul.

Well I hit a snap on the opord so I am taking a break. I will at least try to get the ball rolling on round 5. As requested I am gonna try and forge a little more of a narrative in the reports. Let me know what you all think of the change.


Round 5:
Opponent: Will Loy
His army: SW/IG
Mission: 5 (Crusade, & purge the alien)
Deployment: Dawm of War
Daemon Prince boon: I think it was +1 AS ; Powers TZ: Detonate Bio: Iron Arm, Warp Speed
We roll off to go first and I win the roll to go first.


His army:
HQ:
Rune Priest in Power Armor

Elite:
3 Wolf Guard terminator pack (power-axe/Combi-Melta)

Troops:
10 Grey Hunters (Mark of the Wulfen, 2x melta gun, 1x power axe)
10 Grey Hunters (Mark of the Wulfen, 2x melta gun, 1x power axe)
10 Grey Hunters (Mark of the Wulfen, 2x melta gun, 1x power axe)

Heavy Support:
6 Long Fangs (5x ML)
6 Long Fangs (5x ML)
6 Long Fangs (5x ML)

Allies:

HQ:
CCS (4x Melta; Chimera)

Troops:
Infantry Platoon
--PCS (4x Flamer)
---Infantry Squad (AC; Chimera)
---Infantry Squad (AC)

Fast Attack:
1 Vendetta

Total 1749pts

Pre-game Analysis: I finally got iron arm on game 5. However, he has a rune priest and can shut me down pretty reliably so it is kind of bitter sweet. The rune priest well definitely be a priority target. In addition, all of his long fangs can make pretty short work of my daemon prince if I am not careful. With or without iron arm. In addition, 15 missle launchers can really take down some barge's with weight of dice. It only takes one penetrate to reduce my armor to 11. TBH this is a match-up I am not looking forward to playing. It will most likely be a close one. I cant remember if my boon was +1 AS on the prince. I think it was which gave my prince a good boost form the missle launchers but he still has at least 13 melta guns in his army.

Deployment: As usual I deploy the 3 barges. 2 Center left, 1 center right. Holding the center are the Wraiths + Dlord and the prince is behind them. He deploys two of his long fangs in the rune on the left utilizing the cover and the elevation to get good line of sight. He places all 3 grey hunter squads in the center with a Terminator Wolf Guard at the front of each. His rune priest joins the middle of the three grey hunter squads. Both of his chimera are placed on the center left. The one infantry squad is placed in the floor of the ruins on the left. Finally his 3rd Long Fangs squad is deployed in area terrain on the right flank.

Necron/CSM Turn 1:

Space Wolves Turn 1:


Necron/CSM Turn 2:

Space Wolves Turn 2:

Mid Game Analysis:

Necron/CSM Turn 3:
Space Wolves Turn 3:

Necron/CSM Turn 4:

Space Wolves Turn 4:

Results:

Post Game analysis:

 Blackmoor wrote:
I disagree. Fliers are good, but most of the lists have fliers to counter fliers.

I think a lot of the lists can beat him, it is just that the players lack the know-how.

For example: Game #1 why deepstrike the terminaters? He is rushing forward with a Demon Prince and Wraiths so he needs to keep his army together and counter-attack with the termintors assaulting out of the land raider. Game #3 why put the purifiers in reserve? He is going second so that is several turns that they could be shooting. Yes the heldrake can fry some, but his flyers should take it down.

You've obviously never played against mass necron fliers/heldrakes with a balanced list (ie. one that has 1-2 fliers and is designed to fight all-comers) if you think it's all about the "know-how".

Short of insane luck, that SM player would've stood no chance against that list even if he was the best player in the world.

I disagree that there was no way for the first opponent to win his game. I can see a couple of options and missed opportunities from the SM player. No knock on him or Brett but saying he had no chance is a little silly.

I stand with Blackmoor on this one. Massed necron flyers/heldrakes can be handled by most lists. I run a general all-comers list with only a single squadron of 2 vendetta's as my flyers and haven't had a single issue with flyer heavy armies (read 5+ AV11 or 2-3 AV12). Anecdotal but since it's been the same with all of my lists I think it stands.

Game 5 finished!

Honestly I'd say that list games 4 and 5 were the one's where there was a slight chance you opponent could pull out a win, the other 3 list had no chance respectfully.
Your list deffiniely reminds me of Jy2's list; plays the same way too. Both you and Jy2's list composition of two death stars made up with the tesla shooting support platform is really tough to counter outside that of coming up against something like draigowing, a really good Nid player that knows how to tarpit, FNP, and MSU armies that are really fast; and even then it's still really tough Nice generalship over your army throughout the games. All I can say is don't play this army all the time otherwise you'll start to really alot of people off as many armies/list don't have the ability to counter such a list affectively while being well rounded. You don't want to become TFG, and it's not even because your a bad person but because it will be so frustrating to come against a list with such an uphill battle. All in All, great battle reports and hope you make some more

Very well played for game 5. Your opponent must be a good player to have gotten that far. Iron Arm and a 2+ armor save really took your army over the top.

Dominating Game #5 performance.

One thing I don't understand is why would your opponent put his RP with the grey hunters? He belongs with the mob squad. ATSKNF is probably the best thing you can give to the blob. Get assaulted by your DP or wraiths, lose, fall back and next turn light them up with the shooting of your entire army (and with Prescience!). That's why I didn't think your DP would survive.

Oh well...his loss, your gain.

Dezstiny wrote: Honestly I'd say that list games 4 and 5 were the one's where there was a slight chance you opponent could pull out a win, the other 3 list had no chance respectfully.
Your list deffiniely reminds me of Jy2's list; plays the same way too. Both you and Jy2's list composition of two death stars made up with the tesla shooting support platform is really tough to counter outside that of coming up against something like draigowing, a really good Nid player that knows how to tarpit, FNP, and MSU armies that are really fast; and even then it's still really tough Nice generalship over your army throughout the games. All I can say is don't play this army all the time otherwise you'll start to really alot of people off as many armies/list don't have the ability to counter such a list affectively while being well rounded. You don't want to become TFG, and it's not even because your a bad person but because it will be so frustrating to come against a list with such an uphill battle. All in All, great battle reports and hope you make some more

QFT! It is definitely a GT only army. If I do run it I make it very clear before hand that I am running an army in preparation for a GT and would like my opponent to bring his nastiest list he can think of. I usually run more conventional fun list at the FLGS. I am a very strong believer that with the right general you can win with just about any list. However, some are more adept to deal with others. My list is designed to hit you on turn 2. Your success or failures on turn 1 dictate how hard it is going to hit. As for making some more I should be able to finish out the report this weekend.

Dozer Blades wrote:Very well played for game 5. Your opponent must be a good player to have gotten that far. Iron Arm and a 2+ armor save really took your army over the top.

When i rolled both of those I couldn't believe my fortune. The missile launchers were a serious threat to my prince and both of those rolls directly countered that threat.

jy2 wrote:Dominating Game #5 performance.

One thing I don't understand is why would your opponent put his RP with the grey hunters? He belongs with the mob squad. ATSKNF is probably the best thing you can give to the blob. Get assaulted by your DP or wraiths, lose, fall back and next turn light them up with the shooting of your entire army (and with Prescience!). That's why I didn't think your DP would survive.

Oh well...his loss, your gain.

He didn't have them in a blob. The pcs was in the vendetta and one of the infantry squads was in that middle chimera in the picture. Placing the rune priest in the middle of the board gave him max coverage for his psychic defense and gave him a good location to spread prescience where it would be needed. I would of deployed him in the same location if playing his list.

Wait Tomb King isn't Tony Kopachs? For some reason I associated the two. Mind Blown!

This might possibly be the cheesiest list I have ever seen built. The only way I could see more cheese in it is to somehow have the Doom of Malantai coming in in a Spore. I like it!!!

Necrons seem to be needing a large nerf-bat to the metal groin. Tesla weapons are ridiculous (All other armies pay a premium for that many Str 7 Shots. At 90 points, the AB is horridly undercosted- and it's also armour 13 pretty much ignoring stunned/shaken. Either a strength nerf or a mechanic nerf needs to take place, same with MSS.

So far the opposition has been light- getting the turn two assault off on the SW really sealed that game, they have no counter attack answer to either the DP or the Wraiths.

I think what people meant by narrative was less of a story but more detail in what was going through your mind, the context of the turn etc. I much preferred your original style, which gave maximum information in minimum text, rather than some relatively less interesting pseudo-fluff.

Keep em coming!

To the guy who said this army will win no friends: Its a tournament list, with almost all of the most broken units in the game, what do you expect?

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Wait Tomb King isn't Tony Kopachs? For some reason I associated the two. Mind Blown!

This might possibly be the cheesiest list I have ever seen built. The only way I could see more cheese in it is to somehow have the Doom of Malantai coming in in a Spore. I like it!!!

Necrons seem to be needing a large nerf-bat to the metal groin. Tesla weapons are ridiculous (All other armies pay a premium for that many Str 7 Shots. At 90 points, the AB is horridly undercosted- and it's also armour 13 pretty much ignoring stunned/shaken. Either a strength nerf or a mechanic nerf needs to take place, same with MSS.

So far the opposition has been light- getting the turn two assault off on the SW really sealed that game, they have no counter attack answer to either the DP or the Wraiths.

I think what people meant by narrative was less of a story but more detail in what was going through your mind, the context of the turn etc. I much preferred your original style, which gave maximum information in minimum text, rather than some relatively less interesting pseudo-fluff.

Keep em coming!

To the guy who said this army will win no friends: Its a tournament list, with almost all of the most broken units in the game, what do you expect?

Roger I can do more of a detailed decision making process or basically cover what I am attempting to do and why. As for the list being nasty. I would have to agree with that sentiment. IMO it is the nastiest list I have ever ran. Some people take the opposite end of the spectrum though and actually hate the list and don't think its optimal or competitive. It is the closest thing to a TAC list that I have built as of yet in 6th edition.

It preforms well against enemy fliers.
It preforms well against MC spam.
It preforms well against mech.
It preforms well against Elite MSU.
It preforms decently well against horde.(honestly the only thing I am really worried about is not being able to do enough wounds to a serious horde army. Though such armies in themselves struggle with being competitive against other armies that strive in 6th.)

I don't see this list having problems against Horde with the number of Tesla Destructors you can field, as well as the Black Mace on a DP.

Horde can't effectively deal with AB's or DP's.

If you don't finish this, I am calling your cell to ask you about the games.

Hope you plan to get your drink on with us at Adepticon.

Tiredpopeye wrote:
If you don't finish this, I am calling your cell to ask you about the games.

Hope you plan to get your drink on with us at Adepticon.

Would of had it up last night but had a virus that I needed to tackle. As for adepticon it will be dependent on my training on whether or not I can attempt to repeat last years success. Starting on Thursday is hurting my chances.

Good luck at Adepticon if you make it. I hope you bring this army... Hard as nails.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Good luck at Adepticon if you make it. I hope you bring this army... Hard as nails.

I will be bringing this army and it will be fully painted. The only addition is the army with have one more night scythe.


Round 6:
Opponent: Dustin Sanders
His army: CSM/Daemons
Mission: 6 (The Relic & Modified Emperors Will)
Deployment: Dawn of War
Daemon Prince boon: The boon is unworthy offering ; Powers TZ: Boon Bio: Endurance, Enfeeble
We roll off to go first and I win the roll to go first.


Dustin Sanders-AKA Gravy Ghost from the blog Prey in 40k

List
HQ
Chaos lord Bike, MoN, Burning brand, Murder sword

Troops
7- Plague marines 2- plasma guns, melta bomb Rhino w/ combi melta
7- Plague marines 2- plasma guns, melta bomb Rhino w/ combi melta
7- Plague marines2- melta guns, melta bomb Rhino

Fast
Helldrake

4- Spawn MoN

Heavy
7- Havocs 4- autocannons, MoN
7-Havocs 4- missile launchers, MoN

HQ
Epidemus
Troop
6- plaguebearers

Pre-game Analysis: I was spoiled last game with all my upgrades and I could of really used them for this game. The prince starts out rough with no boon but I do manage to get enfeeble and endurance. The fnp should help and enfeeble pretty much cancels out nurgle. His list is a tally man list. I am not to worried about that because if his tally gets high enough to effect the game then it is already a rough day for me. Which two of my troops being on the groun the heldrake is a very serious threat. The spawn and the lord have the potential to lock me in combat for a few turns. In addition to all of this, plague marines are imo one of the best units for a first turn grab of the relic. I will have to take that into account because it would be my turn one move with these guys. His havocs are a serious threat to the livelihood of my prince and those missle launchers could really wreck my wraiths. If I lose both of those units I could see my opponent pretty much ignoring the rest of my army. My opponent nominates the prince as the target for the murder sword(If the fight comes I will have to kill him before he strikes).

What are your all's thoughts on this one?

Here is the board we will be playing on.

Ignore Hans army and the space wolves army currently on the table. My deployment zone on the left and his deployment zone will be on the right.

Deployment: I deploy my prince in the center of my lines behind the wraiths + dlord. On the left flank I place two of the AB and on the right I place the other. Everything else is reserved. My opponent deploys one havoc unit in the open on the right flank and the other havoc squad in the area terrain on that same flank. He places one rhino right center. Then he places the lord + the spawn next to that rhino with the spawn using that ruin to gain a cover. His other two rhino's are placed one in the center and one next to it in left center. He reserves his heldrake and the daemons. It is night fight turn 1. He rells to seize but doesnt get it.


Necron/CSM Turn 1:
CSM/Daemons Turn 1:
Early-game analysis:

Necron/CSM Turn 2:

CSM/Daemons Turn 2:

Necron/CSM Turn 3:

CSM/Daemons Turn 3:

Necron/CSM Turn 4:

CSM/Daemons Turn 4:

Late game analysis:

Necron/CSM Turn 5:

CSM/Daemons Turn 5:

Now the all important game deciding roll to see if the game continues(Includes Results and Post Game Analysis):

Can't wait to read it.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Can't wait to read it.

First 2 round posted. Will try and get the rest up in the morning.

Game 6 posted!

So you won 1st place right? I think that losing the prince early was okay since your opponent had to focus fire his whole army to bring it down. I have found that can really end up costing you.

That Nurgle themed list seems extremely scary on paper, but Epidemius and the Plaguebearers are just a points sink IMO.

Eh, he just shot it with his heavy weapons. It's about time the damn Daemon Prince started paying for just charging into his entire gunline

Looks like Necron cheese powered you through to victory on this one again MSS and Wraiths FTW

Oh and AB's wiping a unit of 7 Plague Marines on one turn of shooting? Absurd.

You didn't even need your Heldrake for 2/3rd of the game. Necrons are just that broken.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So you won 1st place right? I think that losing the prince early was okay since your opponent had to focus fire his whole army to bring it down. I have found that can really end up costing you.

No this was just round 6. The next round is the finals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
That Nurgle themed list seems extremely scary on paper, but Epidemius and the Plaguebearers are just a points sink IMO.

Eh, he just shot it with his heavy weapons. It's about time the damn Daemon Prince started paying for just charging into his entire gunline

Looks like Necron cheese powered you through to victory on this one again MSS and Wraiths FTW

Oh and AB's wiping a unit of 7 Plague Marines on one turn of shooting? Absurd.

You didn't even need your Heldrake for 2/3rd of the game. Necrons are just that broken.

MSS didn't do anything for me this game. I was left fighting the lord on my own. Luckily he was only S4 against T6 with an ap3 weapon. So he had trouble wounding me.

As for the barges yea they did extremely well that turn. Even the bottom gun rolled a 6 or two to hit and generated extra dice.

Actually it's not all that absurd... Especially if TK was rolling hot and his opponent cold. The anni barge is one of the best units in the game right now.

Round 7:
Opponent: Hanz Krueger
His army: Necrons
Mission: 7 (Crusade and Table Quarters)
Deployment: Spearhead
Daemon Prince boon: The boon is +1 AS ; Powers TZ: Breath of Chaos Bio: Iron Arm; Warp Speed
We roll off to go first and he wins the roll to go first. It will also be night fight turn 1.


His army on the right... mine scattered on the left next to some chili-mac.... lmao! That is the board we play on as well. I have left corner his deployment zone mirrors that in the right.
His army:
HQ
Trazyn the Infinite (warlord) 175 pts
ROYAL COURT
Cryptek (Harbringer of Storm w/ voltaic staff) 25 pts
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts

Necron Overlord 130 pts
(Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Mind-Schackle Scarabs)
ROYAL COURT
Cryptek (Staff of Light) 25pts
Cryptek (Harbringer of Storm w/ voltaic staff) 25 pts
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts

FAST ATTACK
5 x Canoptek Wraiths 175 pts
5 x Canoptek Wraiths (1 x whip coils) 185 pts

TROOPS
5 x Necron Warriors 65 pts (Ghost Ark dedicated transport) 115 pts
5 x Necron Immortals (Tesla) 85 pts
5 x Necron Immortals (Gauss) 85 pts

HEAVY
Annihilation Barge (Gauss Cannon) 90 pts
Annihilation Barge (Gauss Cannon) 90 pts

ELITE
5 x Deathmarks 95 pts
(NightScythe dedicated transport) 100pts
5 x Deathmarks 95 pts
(NightScythe dedicated transport) 100pt

Pre-game Analysis: After all is said and done we have a rematch of last years finals. It was a painful loss I took to Hanz and his Imotekh lead Necrons(http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/437597.page). This year doesnt have the storm lord but his list is just as brutal. His Ghost arc is a high priority target. It is the one thing in his army that can relaible wreck my AV13. In addition, his army has a lot of mobility just like mine. I have a feeling this fight will be a hard fought one whatever the outcome. I am feeling pretty good about getting Iron arm and +1 AS but I figure he will shoot me with deathmarks wounding me on a 2+ either way. I plan for removing his AB's is to focus fire on them with all 3 of mine at once. I will have to drop back and stay out of range and pounce with all my fires at once. I have to keep my wraiths away from his Annihilation barge's because the amount of dakka they can throw down can really hurt the wraiths and I have a feeling I will be needing them.

Hanz if you have a chance to read this I would appreciate your pre-game thoughts...

I will post this report tomorrow night unless training comes up as it has priority... As always what are your alls predictions and questions?

Essentially my thoughts were on the mission.
Have more value of units in quarters, fliers didnt count towards quarters either.
Your army had 470 pts in fliers.
Since your army had 2 really deadly/resilient units with the Tzeencth Prince having 2+ armour saves w/ re-rolls and Iron Arm, and the D Lord/ Wraithball. If I could kill both those units, the game would be mine to lose. I figured I would have such a point advantage, I would win quarters, and negate you getting last turn......if I failed to kill the deathstar units and they get into me at the same time, the game would be lost, and you would clean me up.

I figured if I picked the right time to go after your Prince, or your Wraiths, without overextending, I would gain the upperhand.

I really couldnt do much about your fliers with you having 2nd half of the turn, so I would try to ignore them as much as possible, especially since they didnt count towards quarters.

I'm not really seeing the mobility of Han's list. In an objectives-based scenario, what is really important is the mobility of the scoring units. None of his troops are mobile. He's already at a distinct disadvantage to start with.

With Iron Arm, your DP is going to be hard to kill. I predict that he survives this time, assuming you don't fall for a bait assault meant to get him on the ground. And as long as you watch out for his deathmarks, I think you will take this game.

Hi,

excellent report and good generalship

you asked about feedback so here is my:
- i would love to read your tactical reasoning etc since that is most important to me
- It would be great to be able to look into more pictures to feel your decisions/options better

great stuff overall keep it coming!

jy2 wrote:I'm not really seeing the mobility of Han's list. In an objectives-based scenario, what is really important is the mobility of the scoring units. None of his troops are mobile. He's already at a distinct disadvantage to start with.

With Iron Arm, your DP is going to be hard to kill. I predict that he survives this time, assuming you don't fall for a bait assault meant to get him on the ground. And as long as you watch out for his deathmarks, I think you will take this game.

Interesting analysis we will see if mobility is an issue I will post the report tonight.

Fikol wrote:Hi,

excellent report and good generalship

you asked about feedback so here is my:
- i would love to read your tactical reasoning etc since that is most important to me
- It would be great to be able to look into more pictures to feel your decisions/options better

great stuff overall keep it coming!

Thanks for the compliments and feedback. I try to cover the general picture and if there anything in particular you want my view point on let me know. Since this is the finals I am gonna do a recreation of the battle with vassal and will post 2 full turns a day starting tonight.

I look forward to the final battle with Vassal illustrations.

Ya know, if this list is still undefeated maybe a certain GK/SW player needs to issue a challenge.

Two turns a day is way too slow! Just skip the Vassal to speed up the report.

yeah vassal is superfluous, just go right ahead.

Necron cheese on necron cheese with CSM cheese: I predict DP will come up tops as your DP SMASH and helldrake roasts his units with impunity.

I will challenge this list....

Mizzouri wrote:I look forward to the final battle with Vassal illustrations.

Ya know, if this list is still undefeated maybe a certain GK/SW player needs to issue a challenge.

If no one wants it I am not gonna put the time and effort into doing the vassal report.

Dozer Blades wrote:Two turns a day is way too slow! Just skip the Vassal to speed up the report.

Time got away from me tonight I will try and put it up tomorrow.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:yeah vassal is superfluous, just go right ahead.

Necron cheese on necron cheese with CSM cheese: I predict DP will come up tops as your DP SMASH and helldrake roasts his units with impunity.

All I can say to this is . What do you consider Necron Cheese? We have two very different list?

spaguatyrine wrote:I will challenge this list....

Bring it punk.

It's a great list. I love it.

Round 7:
Opponent: Hanz Krueger
His army: Necrons
Mission: 7 (Crusade and Table Quarters)
Deployment: Spearhead
Daemon Prince boon: The boon is +1 AS ; Powers TZ: Breath of Chaos Bio: Iron Arm; Warp Speed
We roll off to go first and he wins the roll to go first. It will also be night fight turn 1.


His army on the right... mine scattered on the left next to some chili-mac.... lmao! That is the board we play on as well. I have left corner his deployment zone mirrors that in the right.
His army:
HQ
Trazyn the Infinite (warlord) 175 pts (In night scythe)
ROYAL COURT
Cryptek (Harbringer of Storm w/ voltaic staff) 25 pts (In the ghost Ark)
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts (with death marks)
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts (with death marks2)

Necron Overlord 130 pts (In ghost ark)
(Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Mind-Schackle Scarabs)
ROYAL COURT
Cryptek (Staff of Light) 25pts
Cryptek (Harbringer of Storm w/ voltaic staff) 25 pts (In the Ghost Ark)
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts (with deak marks2)

FAST ATTACK
5 x Canoptek Wraiths 175 pts
5 x Canoptek Wraiths (1 x whip coils) 185 pts

TROOPS
5 x Necron Warriors 65 pts (Ghost Ark dedicated transport) 115 pts
5 x Necron Immortals (Tesla) 85 pts
5 x Necron Immortals (Gauss) 85 pts

HEAVY
Annihilation Barge (Gauss Cannon) 90 pts
Annihilation Barge (Gauss Cannon) 90 pts

ELITE
5 x Deathmarks 95 pts
(NightScythe dedicated transport) 100pts
5 x Deathmarks 95 pts
(NightScythe dedicated transport) 100pt

Pre-game Analysis: After all is said and done we have a rematch of last years finals. It was a painful loss I took to Hanz and his Imotekh lead Necrons(http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/437597.page). This year doesnt have the storm lord but his list is just as brutal. His Ghost arc is a high priority target. It is the one thing in his army that can relaible wreck my AV13. In addition, his army has a lot of mobility just like mine. I have a feeling this fight will be a hard fought one whatever the outcome. I am feeling pretty good about getting Iron arm and +1 AS but I figure he will shoot me with deathmarks wounding me on a 2+ either way. I plan for removing his AB's is to focus fire on them with all 3 of mine at once. I will have to drop back and stay out of range and pounce with all my fires at once. I have to keep my wraiths away from his Annihilation barge's because the amount of dakka they can throw down can really hurt the wraiths and I have a feeling I will be needing them.

Opponents Pre-game Analysis:

Norbu the Destroyer wrote:
Essentially my thoughts were on the mission.
Have more value of units in quarters, fliers didnt count towards quarters either.
Your army had 470 pts in fliers.
Since your army had 2 really deadly/resilient units with the Tzeencth Prince having 2+ armour saves w/ re-rolls and Iron Arm, and the D Lord/ Wraithball. If I could kill both those units, the game would be mine to lose. I figured I would have such a point advantage, I would win quarters, and negate you getting last turn......if I failed to kill the deathstar units and they get into me at the same time, the game would be lost, and you would clean me up.

I figured if I picked the right time to go after your Prince, or your Wraiths, without overextending, I would gain the upperhand.

I really couldnt do much about your fliers with you having 2nd half of the turn, so I would try to ignore them as much as possible, especially since they didnt count towards quarters.

Please Note: Pictures are a recreation and are not 100% accurate. I am forming this all from memory from nearly 3 weeks ago and 6 test ago.

Deployment is as follows:

He deploys with his wratihs back and his Ghost Ark side ways on the front line. I place all of mine around 33" away trying to deny him shots unless he moves far enough to snap fire.

Game Turn: 1

Game Turn: 2
NECRONS TURN: 2

Early Game Analysis:

NECRONS/CSM TURN: 2

NECRONS TURN: 3


NECRONS/CSM TURN: 3


NECRONS TURN: 4


Late Game Analysis:


NECRONS/CSM TURN: 4


NECRONS TURN: 5

NECRONS/CSM TURN: 5

He elects to make the roll to continue the game as I made a clutch one in game 6 to win it:

NECRONS TURN: 6


NECRONS/CSM TURN: 6

This time I am allowed to make the roll and naturally I roll a






Game Results/Post Game Analysis:

Game analysis and then tournament analysis to follow... later[/spoiler]


Tournament Results/Analysis:

My prediction is the anni barges will prevail.

Necron versus Necron... Sweet!

Why did you charge the Ghost Ark? If you locked his Wraiths / whoever else in combat, he wouldn't be able to shoot the DP.

Also bad luck on the Helldrake not showing for 2 turns and then getting blown out of the sky

I'm literally refreshing as you're typing, this is very exciting.

Dozer Blades wrote:My prediction is the anni barges will prevail.

Necron versus Necron... Sweet!

Well his damn Anni barge was crazy as well. For 90pts they are hard as hell to kill.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Why did you charge the Ghost Ark? If you locked his Wraiths / whoever else in combat, he wouldn't be able to shoot the DP.

Also bad luck on the Helldrake not showing for 2 turns and then getting blown out of the sky

I'm literally refreshing as you're typing, this is very exciting.

The wraiths were out of range and I risked dying to his deathmarks either way.
The heldrake was sorely needed and personally he seemed a little hungover when he did show up. Definitely a counseling going in his file.
That is what i was trying to do with this one give the feel of a live match in a way. Its different.

Hmm, in hindsight his list was way weaker than yours- too top heavy in the HQ selection and lacking in mobility.

Doesn't help you killed all his flyers/transports by turn 2.

His entire army failing to down your DP was huge, but I guess it balanced out with the helldrake dying and doing 0 dmg and your wraiths+lord getting wrecked in combat.

He was looking pretty strong in turn 3, but bad luck with the arc sealed it for you I think!

Not so having Anni Barges on the other side of the table now, isn't it

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Hmm, in hindsight his list was way weaker than yours- too top heavy in the HQ selection and lacking in mobility.

Doesn't help you killed all his flyers/transports by turn 2.

His entire army failing to down your DP was huge, but I guess it balanced out with the helldrake dying and doing 0 dmg and your wraiths+lord getting wrecked in combat.

He was looking pretty strong in turn 3, but bad luck with the arc sealed it for you I think!

Not so having Anni Barges on the other side of the table now, isn't it

I would have to disagree. I really dig his list personally. I have thought about running the deathmarks myself and now seeing them in action only increases the chance that I finally buy the models. Also I forgot trazyn was scoring. In this addition that makes him worth his weight in gold. The one big thing I might change is dropping the immortals. Personally I dont like them over the warriors but YMMV. Had he got a 7th turn he most likely would of been able to eek it out on me.

Very well done. That last game was real close. It looked like your opponent almost had you before his luck ran out. BTW, nice job taking out his mobility.

Congrats on winning your first GT!

 jy2 wrote:
Very well done. That last game was real close. It looked like your opponent almost had you before his luck ran out. BTW, nice job taking out his mobility.

Congrats on winning your first GT!

Thanks I appreciate it. Helped redeemed last years massacre of the 56th MID. What did you think of the new style of reporting the finals? Last time I reported it turn by turn throughout the night. Might try it sometime. Gives the feel of a live game in a way.


Also Hanz if you have any take on the game that you want to add or you see anything that I totally jacked up let me know and I will police it up.

Great work, TK. Congratulations going all the way with an unconventional list. It didn't seem many people believed in the Prince, but like you've said, he combines with the rest of your list extremely well. It seems like he's just enough to push the number of fast, resilient threats over the top. An entire army shooting at him to no avail being the case in point!

Also, thanks for putting this together. I think your reporting style worked well, very enjoyable to read, but I do wish you had more photos in there. Even one or two per game would really help make sense of things. I would also consider expanding the spoilers to cover entire game turns instead of player turns. 10+ spoilers can be a little confusing (or just annoying) at times. Now please go win another GT and do this all again from scratch.

 whigwam wrote:
Great work, TK. Congratulations going all the way with an unconventional list. It didn't seem many people believed in the Prince, but like you've said, he combines with the rest of your list extremely well. It seems like he's just enough to push the number of fast, resilient threats over the top. An entire army shooting at him to no avail being the case in point!

Also, thanks for putting this together. I think your reporting style worked well, very enjoyable to read, but I do wish you had more photos in there. Even one or two per game would really help make sense of things. I would also consider expanding the spoilers to cover entire game turns instead of player turns. 10+ spoilers can be a little confusing (or just annoying) at times. Now please go win another GT and do this all again from scratch.

Glad it was a good read. I like discussing tactics and conducting AAR's after games to see where the big decisions were either made or failed to be made. It extends to my reporting as well. As for the pictures, I usually take a lot. You can see the link in the final thread from last years indy open where I had lost to hanz in the finals. Another factor working into this tournament is my phone was dead and I had been awake 40+ hours starting off the tournament. Day 2 I could of gotten in more pictures but with only 6 hours of sleep wasn't exactly feeling rested.

Though come April I might have a lot of down time. Might finish the old reports that I have started or have yet to start as I have pictures on the camera I was unable to get too...

I think the Vassal reports did a good job of showing how our game went. It took me 4 turns to knock out both death star units. The game boiled down to could your army hold on to the 2 quarters in your deployment zone. As it turns out, they could. The later the game went the more my points advantage was working for me.



And Trazyn......I cant believe that ann. barge shot of mine arced into him, hit 6 times, wounded him 3, and then he fails 2 of the 3+ rolls to die right before charging those warriors in the center. I had some rolls go my way to be sure, but when that happened I had a real bad feeling of how the game was going to turn out, and after that, none of my back up plans worked either (warriors of mine didnt get 3" run they needed to get an objective, deathmarks didnt move more than 4" that turn even with running to clear their table quarter, 2 units of Immortals shooting and charging couldnt disloge 5 warriors) and then the game ended. I got Matt Warded by my own codex.

Im glad it was close, and you played a great game. Congratz again on the win.

I lost Crowe one time to a Tesla arc. They are totally random and swing the direction of the game.

Norbu's list reminds me of a classic 5th edition list while TK's is more in tune with 6th edition (IMO).

Hi there i wanted to touch on something that is probably already well known to those of you that play in lots of tournaments and dedicate most of your free time to this game but... Blackmoors comment about every army having a counter i think is not really true. Now perhaps this is because i havent the time/cash/inclination to buy 5 different armies and paint them all but i play only one army, DA. My codex is new and shiny and has lots of new special rules. Now if i try to use just my codex and come up with a solution to this army that tombking has just played, there is no codex pure option that i could ever imagine that could compete in all facets of the game with such an army. While i know i have a long way to go in terms of tactical acumen, the blunt caveat to the, "everyone has a counter" comment is that you have to have acess to the resources to compete, and frankly not everyone does.

Now as to the battles and reports, i want to say i appreciate your reports. Being a graduate student i dont get enough games to learn all the tactical tricks on my own and having battlereports of this type is important though without pictures is not as useful since movement is where most games are decided. I also need to learn how to deal with lists such as this even if they make me want to slam someones front teeth in the ground from frustration. Congratulations on your victory. It does make me wonder why forgeworld is so frowned on when lists like these two play for the final trophy. The reports sugguested you only really played one competitive opponent, but you put youself in postion to win the tournament, and that takes somes doing. Take your rest sir, you have earned it.

Tomb Kings army is powerful, but I cant imagine Dark Angels dont have anything to counter it with. My army had 2 flyers, and both were shot down turn 2. His army had 4 flying vehicles, and a flying monster. It came down to just a few dice rolls deciding the game. My army was pretty straight forward. The only army it matches up well against is meched up transport armies, that went away with the new edition. It just didnt have a major weakness vs whats currently out there. I would try to find something similr with Dark Angels. Finding well rounded units and getting practice games in goes a lot further than trying to buy the latest toys to keep up with the arms race.

Throughout my 7 games I fought

Rnd 1- Tyranids (Swarmy, Tervigons, 4 Zoeys, Doom, Mawlocs, lots of devourers)
Rnd 2- Deamons/Chaos Marines (Fatey, thirster, ahriman, Helldrake, screemers, flamers, min. troops)
Rnd 3- Pure deamons (Fatey, 27 screamers, 25 flamers, 25 plagues)
Rnd 4- Chaos Marine/Deamons (Typhus, 50 Zombies, Havocs, Grinder, 2 Helldrakes, 9 flamers, 9 screamers, masque)

Rnd 5- Wolves (Canis, 75 Fenrisian wolves, 8 T wolves, 15 ML fangs)
Rnd 6 Necron/Chaos Flying insanity (6 Cron flyers, zahndrekh, helldrake, lord, cultist blob)
Rnd 7 Necron/Chaos (Tomb Kings army)

None of those games were easy wins, but I had tools to deal with aspects of all those armies.

Norbu the Destroyer wrote:I think the Vassal reports did a good job of showing how our game went. It took me 4 turns to knock out both death star units. The game boiled down to could your army hold on to the 2 quarters in your deployment zone. As it turns out, they could. The later the game went the more my points advantage was working for me.

And Trazyn......I cant believe that ann. barge shot of mine arced into him, hit 6 times, wounded him 3, and then he fails 2 of the 3+ rolls to die right before charging those warriors in the center. I had some rolls go my way to be sure, but when that happened I had a real bad feeling of how the game was going to turn out, and after that, none of my back up plans worked either (warriors of mine didnt get 3" run they needed to get an objective, deathmarks didnt move more than 4" that turn even with running to clear their table quarter, 2 units of Immortals shooting and charging couldnt disloge 5 warriors) and then the game ended. I got Matt Warded by my own codex.

Im glad it was close, and you played a great game. Congratz again on the win.

I appreciate it man. We are 1 and 1 now. We will need a third match to decide the series. haha. Were you surprised at all when I went for the ghost ark with the prince? What were your thoughts on that move? I knew it was a big risk but I needed to take out your anti-mech and mobility and figured that was a two for one.

Dozer Blades wrote:I lost Crowe one time to a Tesla arc. They are totally random and swing the direction of the game.

Norbu's list reminds me of a classic 5th edition list while TK's is more in tune with 6th edition (IMO).

I stand by it that I like his list and wouldnt mind running it myself. The deathmark/cryptek combo is very good and can really hurt MEQ armies out there. Also the two units of wraiths are hard to stop. A S6 T3 2W 3++ times 10 is hard to deal with as you could see if you can roll a 3+ save then there isnt much you can do about them. I thought about running two myself but decided the prince was more versatile and brings a similar threat to the table.

Polythemus wrote:Hi there i wanted to touch on something that is probably already well known to those of you that play in lots of tournaments and dedicate most of your free time to this game but... Blackmoors comment about every army having a counter i think is not really true. Now perhaps this is because i havent the time/cash/inclination to buy 5 different armies and paint them all but i play only one army, DA. My codex is new and shiny and has lots of new special rules. Now if i try to use just my codex and come up with a solution to this army that tombking has just played, there is no codex pure option that i could ever imagine that could compete in all facets of the game with such an army. While i know i have a long way to go in terms of tactical acumen, the blunt caveat to the, "everyone has a counter" comment is that you have to have acess to the resources to compete, and frankly not everyone does.

Now as to the battles and reports, i want to say i appreciate your reports. Being a graduate student i dont get enough games to learn all the tactical tricks on my own and having battlereports of this type is important though without pictures is not as useful since movement is where most games are decided. I also need to learn how to deal with lists such as this even if they make me want to slam someones front teeth in the ground from frustration. Congratulations on your victory. It does make me wonder why forgeworld is so frowned on when lists like these two play for the final trophy. The reports sugguested you only really played one competitive opponent, but you put youself in postion to win the tournament, and that takes somes doing. Take your rest sir, you have earned it.

Most list have at least one hard counter. It is hard to encompass all builds with just one TAC build. I can feel you on the time. Last spring I was taking 27 credit hours. IMO forgeworld is usually fround upon because its an added set of rules, that in some cases are a bit OP. I am personally not a fan of FW rules. Though I like the models. The reports suggested incorrectly then. What you saw is that if the list hit as it was suppose to then the game was an uphill battle for my opponent. When it was disrupted the game was very much a pitched fight. Games 6 and 7 in particular both came down to when the game was going to end.

As for the dark angels. I think they work best with allies currently. They are very expensive on a model to model basis. I had a very controversial 4 land raider build with my dark angels that some people hated and others loved. You can find it through my profile and threads I posted. It was in the army list forum. In addition, if you like the reports I have a few with detailed photo's in them in my profile as well. Thanks again and I hope my report helped on some of the decision making and detailed some of the tactics currently in use.

Norbu the Destroyer wrote:Tomb Kings army is powerful, but I cant imagine Dark Angels dont have anything to counter it with. My army had 2 flyers, and both were shot down turn 2. His army had 4 flying vehicles, and a flying monster. It came down to just a few dice rolls deciding the game. My army was pretty straight forward. The only army it matches up well against is meched up transport armies, that went away with the new edition. It just didnt have a major weakness vs whats currently out there. I would try to find something similr with Dark Angels. Finding well rounded units and getting practice games in goes a lot further than trying to buy the latest toys to keep up with the arms race.

Throughout my 7 games I fought

Rnd 1- Tyranids (Swarmy, Tervigons, 4 Zoeys, Doom, Mawlocs, lots of devourers)
Rnd 2- Deamons/Chaos Marines (Fatey, thirster, ahriman, Helldrake, screemers, flamers, min. troops)
Rnd 3- Pure deamons (Fatey, 27 screamers, 25 flamers, 25 plagues)
Rnd 4- Chaos Marine/Deamons (Typhus, 50 Zombies, Havocs, Grinder, 2 Helldrakes, 9 flamers, 9 screamers, masque)

Rnd 5- Wolves (Canis, 75 Fenrisian wolves, 8 T wolves, 15 ML fangs)
Rnd 6 Necron/Chaos Flying insanity (6 Cron flyers, zahndrekh, helldrake, lord, cultist blob)
Rnd 7 Necron/Chaos (Tomb Kings army)

None of those games were easy wins, but I had tools to deal with aspects of all those armies.

Damn man, so that is where all the daemon players were. I was actually looking forward to playing them with my list. Just noticed that I didnt play a single pure daemon list. The list was tooled to kill that list if need be. In addition, I really wanted to play against that 7 fliers list. I think my AB's would of helped give me the edge in that match-up.

[My army was pretty straight forward. The only army it matches up well against is meched up transport armies, that went away with the new edition. It just didnt have a major weakness vs whats currently out there. I would try to find something similr with Dark Angels. Finding well rounded units and getting practice games in goes a lot further than trying to buy the latest toys to keep up with the arms race.
...
None of those games were easy wins, but I had tools to deal with aspects of all those armies.

Best General? Best Cheesemonger!!!!!!!!!!

jokes aside, without FW there is no hard counter to a flying Daemon Prince.

With Forge World, DA Mortis Contemptors make sure no FMC ever gets near your army.

I promised not to ruin it so here goes my comments:

Thank you for your kind words for the running of our event. I am my staff try to run a tight ship but have fun with it. So far in 2 years we have had only 2 upset people each year. 1st year it was an Ork player that didn't upset that Ghazgul could be turned into a spawn and left, to this year a player that had too much ,but I was able to talk him into taking a game off and coming back.

We at The Indy Open are here for you all, the players, to run a great event and hopefully bring you back next year.

I watched the game from start to end for the most part and want to give props to Hanz for his tactic to pull your wraiths into the middle and multi assault them. Ingenious tactic!

I also believe your prince crunching the arc was key as you indicated. You locked him in his table half making him walk.

Killing Trazyan was the reason you won in my opinion. Trayzan would have held the middle if he got in combat with the 5 warriors, then held that objective most likely. Also having the 5 extra points in your right corner was crucial. If Hanz would have assaultd the barge first then your warriors in the following turn he would have gotten that table quarter also changing the game.

BUT things happen and it was an amazing game. One of the best I have ever watched! Great Job to both of you! It is also amazing that you both ended up playing a rematch. This truly was the Lakers vs Celtics. I look forward to next year.

And you are right I was busting your chops! But I also ensured you got some sleep right?????

Congratus to Brett Perkins/Tomb King as the Indy Open 2013 Grand Tournament Best General and 2013 Invitee to The Nova Open Inviatational Tournament!

And I still want to play you...Cause your daemon prince sucks! LOL!

Polythemus wrote:[My army was pretty straight forward. The only army it matches up well against is meched up transport armies, that went away with the new edition. It just didnt have a major weakness vs whats currently out there. I would try to find something similar with Dark Angels. Finding well rounded units and getting practice games in goes a lot further than trying to buy the latest toys to keep up with the arms race.
...
None of those games were easy wins, but I had tools to deal with aspects of all those armies.

Thanks for your response. But i think the critical thing you said is "didnt have a major weakness". I find that necrons are really the only army that can build lists that do this, every other army i have encountered in my limited time, has a weakness be it in mobility, shooting, assault, resilience, psychic defense, etc. the only place necrons are weak is psy defense, but they are so strong everywhere else that it is really never a problem. I suppose you could argue the counter to necrons is tyranids (especially when played by jy2) but honestly i dont think they have one. This is why necrons are the default TAC army of 6th ed. My comment regarding fw however still stands, because it upsets the balance of power that exists within the codex hierarchy, youll notice that in the tournament environment of the bao, there were no necro-lists in the top 15 i think, which internet wisdom would tell you should not happen. However i dont want to hijack someone elses thread or sully their glory. Winning a tournament is not an easy feat, at the end of the day top armies will face each other and then what seperates them is tactics and dice, but first you have to earn the right to play for it.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Best General? Best Cheesemonger!!!!!!!!!!

jokes aside, without FW there is no hard counter to a flying Daemon Prince.

With Forge World, DA Mortis Contemptors make sure no FMC ever gets near your army.

Some people are still of the belief that my list isnt that good or optimal for that matter. Either way regardless of the build no army is auto-win. A good tactician could win with just about any army. When I originally got into 40k I was a little free with the cash as I had received a 10k signing bonus from the army. This lead me to explore my options with armies. The only armies I have yet to play with are Orks, and Grey Knights. I have owned and/or played with every other army. The end result is I am able accurately assume the capabilities of most units in the game and what there strengths or weaknesses happen to be. In addition, I learned the strategies that are most favorable to those armies. I.E. The most likely objective my opponent given the mission set at hand.

As for forgeworld. It is pretty obvious the skewed the results for the BAO. The funny thing is it nerfed some armies but still failed to take out the true top army at the time. Daemons! Now with the new update daemons have become to unreliable and rock, paper, scissors. They run into hard counters against anti-psyker armies and grey knights wreck them now.

spaguatyrine wrote:I promised not to ruin it so here goes my comments:

Thank you for your kind words for the running of our event. I am my staff try to run a tight ship but have fun with it. So far in 2 years we have had only 2 upset people each year. 1st year it was an Ork player that didn't upset that Ghazgul could be turned into a spawn and left, to this year a player that had too much ,but I was able to talk him into taking a game off and coming back.

We at The Indy Open are here for you all, the players, to run a great event and hopefully bring you back next year.

I watched the game from start to end for the most part and want to give props to Hanz for his tactic to pull your wraiths into the middle and multi assault them. Ingenious tactic!

I also believe your prince crunching the arc was key as you indicated. You locked him in his table half making him walk.

Killing Trazyan was the reason you won in my opinion. Trayzan would have held the middle if he got in combat with the 5 warriors, then held that objective most likely. Also having the 5 extra points in your right corner was crucial. If Hanz would have assaultd the barge first then your warriors in the following turn he would have gotten that table quarter also changing the game.

BUT things happen and it was an amazing game. One of the best I have ever watched! Great Job to both of you! It is also amazing that you both ended up playing a rematch. This truly was the Lakers vs Celtics. I look forward to next year.

And you are right I was busting your chops! But I also ensured you got some sleep right?????

Congratus to Brett Perkins/Tomb King as the Indy Open 2013 Grand Tournament Best General and 2013 Invitee to The Nova Open Inviatational Tournament!

And I still want to play you...Cause your daemon prince sucks! LOL!

As for the big multi-charge I figured it was the best shot I had at seriously weakening one of his wraith squads. Either way I cut it his wraiths were gonna double tap my wraiths. At least in that situation I got the charge and reduced one significantly before the other arrived.

As for the trazyn thing. It only became an issue when the game continued. The general hope there was that I could atleast lock him in combat. Had they died we would of tied objectives and the game would of come down to a 4-4 tie with me having Line Breaker and First blood and him having Slay the warlord.

Thanks again for hosting the event and for the congrats. As for playing me. The die is cast my friend. Bring it!!!

@ TK - I like your list because it has some real character (e.g., evil daemon prince) and is not bland like we see sometimes on the top tables.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
@ TK - I like your list because it has some real character (e.g., evil daemon prince) and is not bland like we see sometimes on the top tables.

Thanks, the prince is definitely a wrecking ball to swing at opposing armies. I should have picture up of the entire come early april. Getting them painted up now.

Surveys went out. If you haven't filled one out please do so.

Thanks Spaguatyrine

spaguatyrine wrote:
Surveys went out. If you haven't filled one out please do so.

Thanks Spaguatyrine

Dont have it... did you send to the right email?

Thanks for the effort with the reports - I enjoyed them tremendously.
Just one questio - why is the Daemon Prince Tzeentch and not Nurgle? Seems that Tzeentch helps against small arms fire, but Nurgle would help much more against the bigger stuff.
Any particular reason you went for Tzeentch?

Cheers, M.

Nurgle = Slow & Purposfull = the suck!!

Right, forgot about that ...
Thanks.

Mutter wrote:
Thanks for the effort with the reports - I enjoyed them tremendously.
Just one questio - why is the Daemon Prince Tzeentch and not Nurgle? Seems that Tzeentch helps against small arms fire, but Nurgle would help much more against the bigger stuff.
Any particular reason you went for Tzeentch?

Cheers, M.

Actually the main reason is small arms fire is the leading cause of death for just about any mc. With so many armies out there swapping more shots for less ap it seems pretty legit to improve my save by that much more. In addition, nurgle doesnt help me in combat or when making grounding saves. Tzeentch does...

You can see in two of my games I got +1 AS.. Giving the prince a re-rollable 2+ save.

Ouch! My training for tomorrow got canceled but as such there is no way I can get cleared and too Adepticon before a 0900 Champs SP time. Never seen a GT start on a Thursday Morning. :( Came close to making the event. Best of luck to all involved.

That's too bad. It would've been fun to see how the Ugly Misfits fare against other top-notch talent once again.

Maybe I'll try to make it to Adepticon next year. Or Nova.

Nice series of games! A lot of fun to read. Seeing some of those scenarios and the decisions you made reminds me how far I have to go in the world of 40k.

You mentioned that Daemons get crushed by Grey Knights now, in an earlier post, TK, and I'd be interested to know what Grey Knights lists you're thinking about. I've faced termie spam a decent number of times with my version of the MTO list and I have never felt that the advantages my opponent has against my Daemons outweighed the advantages they have against him.

For reference, my list (at 2k; I also posted this in your list building thread a while back) is the following:

BT (Big Threat) List w/ CSM Allies
Fateweaver: 300pts
Lord of Change w/ Exalted Reward, Greater Reward: 280pts
CSM Daemon Prince w/ Daemon of Tzeentch, Wings, Armor, Black Mace: 265pts
5 Chaos Space Marines w/ Melta Gun, 3 regs have CCW replacing boltgun: 85pts
w/ Chaos Rhino: 35pts
2*10 Pink Horrors: 180pts
Helldrake w/ Baleflamer: 170pts
3* Soul Grinders w/ Tzeentch, Phlegm Bombardment: 510pts
Forgefiend: 175pts

1999+1pts

I'm afraid I don't have his termie spam list memorized. It's Terminators, Paladins, 2-3 Psyfleman Dreadnoughts, and 0-1 Dreadknights depending on how he's tooled it out at any given point. My list tends to do quit well because of the amount of maneuverable AP 2 that I have access to, and I've found his anti-psyker defenses to be less effective against the few Psykers I have because of the +3 leadership modifier that Tzeentch daemons get for casting (meaning, even against that Aegis, my guys are still only casting at a -1 penalty). He's mentioned bringing Null Rod (I assume inquisitors are the only ones who can get it? I can't find it anywhere else in the codex) to counter my Bolt of Change, but I don't see that as being an unstoppable upgrade against the list above. Is there some other non-termie Grey Knights list that's more prevalent today and massacres Daemons left and right? Honestly, it was the termies that looked scariest to me, as AP3 is even more prevalent in my list and the only thing that I seem to bounce off of is AV14 spam, which I don't seem to see much of in Grey Knights.

zamnath wrote:
Nice series of games! A lot of fun to read. Seeing some of those scenarios and the decisions you made reminds me how far I have to go in the world of 40k.

You mentioned that Daemons get crushed by Grey Knights now, in an earlier post, TK, and I'd be interested to know what Grey Knights lists you're thinking about. I've faced termie spam a decent number of times with my version of the MTO list and I have never felt that the advantages my opponent has against my Daemons outweighed the advantages they have against him.

For reference, my list (at 2k; I also posted this in your list building thread a while back) is the following:

BT (Big Threat) List w/ CSM Allies
Fateweaver: 300pts
Lord of Change w/ Exalted Reward, Greater Reward: 280pts
CSM Daemon Prince w/ Daemon of Tzeentch, Wings, Armor, Black Mace: 265pts
5 Chaos Space Marines w/ Melta Gun, 3 regs have CCW replacing boltgun: 85pts
w/ Chaos Rhino: 35pts
2*10 Pink Horrors: 180pts
Helldrake w/ Baleflamer: 170pts
3* Soul Grinders w/ Tzeentch, Phlegm Bombardment: 510pts
Forgefiend: 175pts

1999+1pts

I'm afraid I don't have his termie spam list memorized. It's Terminators, Paladins, 2-3 Psyfleman Dreadnoughts, and 0-1 Dreadknights depending on how he's tooled it out at any given point. My list tends to do quit well because of the amount of maneuverable AP 2 that I have access to, and I've found his anti-psyker defenses to be less effective against the few Psykers I have because of the +3 leadership modifier that Tzeentch daemons get for casting (meaning, even against that Aegis, my guys are still only casting at a -1 penalty). He's mentioned bringing Null Rod (I assume inquisitors are the only ones who can get it? I can't find it anywhere else in the codex) to counter my Bolt of Change, but I don't see that as being an unstoppable upgrade against the list above. Is there some other non-termie Grey Knights list that's more prevalent today and massacres Daemons left and right? Honestly, it was the termies that looked scariest to me, as AP3 is even more prevalent in my list and the only thing that I seem to bounce off of is AV14 spam, which I don't seem to see much of in Grey Knights.

I would have to say that purifiers and even shrikes can preform well against daemons. They have better deny the witch roles. Preferred enemy against daemons. Force weapons that auto-kill your multi-wound daemons. I am not a big fan of the soul grinders as they are just expensive battle tanks in your army. A leman russ has better armor, longer range, and is only 150pts. Also the list only has 3 really soft troops at 2000pts. The list does have some threats in it but I feel like they dont exactely jive together. The CSM daemon prince is tough but he is built for combat when the rest of your army is built for shooting. You only have 2 or 3 units that actually want to assault anything. Not counting the grinders as usually a melta-gun keeps them at a distance.

Am I missing somewhere where the Purifiers have a better Deny the Witch than other units in the Grey Knights codex? 5+ DTW has proven to be annoying but not amazing to me, and a regular Aegis still leaves my Horrors casting at LD 9 (7-1+3) and my GDs at LD 10 (9-1+3). Purifiers have 3+s, too, which like going up against Soul Grinders significantly less than the 2+ Termies and Paladins have. I've considered that Purifiers might be more frightening offensively per point, due to psybolt ammo on Storm Bolters on relatively cheaper platforms, but that still only works as a legitimate threat against my non-vehicles.

The Soul Grinders have actually been performing admirably for me. A Leman Russ is cheaper and more shooty, sure, but it's not a walker and it doesn't have a 5+ invuln save re-rolling ones (the Grinder gets edged out with abilitiy to abuse cover because the Russ is easier to hide, but the Grinder has a better save when it is in cover, and the Russ can never hide itself from shooting by locking itself in assault). I don't recall hearing that Russes have the ability to ignore shaken/stunned results, either. As Daemons, my Soul Grinders are also legitimate targets for my Grimoire, when I bring it, and they become pretty insanely hard to kill whenever the +1 to invulns gets rolled on the warp storm table (usually early, while Fatey's still alive). Throw a grimoire on a Grinder and he's not that scared of charging at a melta unit. Only about one in fiveish glance/pens will have any effect on him, at that point, or 1 in 36 if you can get him down to a 2+ invuln. I'd say that, when placed in the proper list, a Soul Grinder is nearly as good or better than a Russ. There's a lot of potential support that the list I mentioned can throw onto any given model at critical moments.

The point of the Daemon Prince is, specifically, to provide close combat and anti-horde support. In a lot of games I've used it similar to the way you used yours in your last game, annihilating one particularly dangerous target in a suicide attack and then soaking up some of the next turn's firepower/baiting. Nothing else I have is particularly adept at that sort of maneuver, other than (maybe) my Lord of Change, so the Daemon Prince provides tactical flexibility. Maybe my gaming group plays with too much big, LOS blocking terrain, but I have yet to lose any of my original scoring units in my 6+ games with this specific list. Three anemic troops stinks, certainly, but I can take great advantage of reserves with them (especially with Fateweaver's re-roll) and, if the scenario really seems to demand better scoring troops, I can always switch Grimoire out for Portalglyph to give me (effectively) 4+ scorers a game. I've considered switching out the CSM w/ Rhino for two 10 man Cultist units and some points to spend elsewhere, but I have yet to ever need that extra scoring unit. Grey Knights, especially, just don't seem to have the extra firepower to waste on troops turn 2+ when I have ~5 vehicles with decent armor and invuln saves and 3 monstrous creatures in their face.

I dunno. Sorry to hijack your thread. I just don't think you're giving Daemons proper credit against Grey Knights and, to a certain extent, in general, too. They've got some bad matchups and they'll struggle to beat the very best lists consistently, but I think we're going to see them proving to be pretty high up there competitively.