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2013/03/12 19:41:01
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute... 4 1/2 of 7 posted (Day 1 Complete)
Giganthrax wrote: Meh, a list with 4 overpowered fliers and one flying MCs against lists with no or very little reliable anti-flier. The outcomes of these battles was pretty obvious as soon as I saw the lists. Just shows how imbalanced fliers are right now. Anyway, good job on winning.
I disagree. Fliers are good, but most of the lists have fliers to counter fliers.
I think a lot of the lists can beat him, it is just that the players lack the know-how.
For example: Game #1 why deepstrike the terminaters? He is rushing forward with a Demon Prince and Wraiths so he needs to keep his army together and counter-attack with the termintors assaulting out of the land raider. Game #3 why put the purifiers in reserve? He is going second so that is several turns that they could be shooting. Yes the heldrake can fry some, but his flyers should take it down.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/12 19:41:51
2013/03/12 20:02:17
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute... 4 1/2 of 7 posted (Day 1 Complete)
If you don't have the ability to deal with 2 AV12 flyers or 5 AV11 flyers in a list then you're not building your list correctly. Bear in mind that dealing with can include ignoring.
As for Tombking's list it's not 100% optomized but it leaves space for him to adjust as needed. Most good lists are like this though his relies a little to much on pre-game dice for me I can see how it works.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
2013/03/12 23:08:04
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute... 4 1/2 of 7 posted (Day 1 Complete)
Kingsley wrote:I think you have this one. Your opponent has a lot of boots on the ground, but he skimped on flyer defense and this will be a major weakness against your list. Ultimately, I think this style of list is very "early 6th" and has not adapted well to later releases and metagame developments.
Not every list has to deal with fliers. Some list are designed to just ignore the fliers as a whole such as my current daemons build. However, even if he is snap firing he still posses 15 missile launchers and a couple of auto cannons that can really do a number on my night scythe's.
The problem is that if he attempts to deal with your fliers, he has no game against your Wraiths and Barges. If he attempts to deal with your Wraiths and Barges, your Heldrake and Scythes will rip him up. I think you have just too many threats for him to deal with, even with Split Fire.
2013/03/12 23:26:15
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute... 4 1/2 of 7 posted (Day 1 Complete)
Kingsley wrote:I think you have this one. Your opponent has a lot of boots on the ground, but he skimped on flyer defense and this will be a major weakness against your list. Ultimately, I think this style of list is very "early 6th" and has not adapted well to later releases and metagame developments.
Not every list has to deal with fliers. Some list are designed to just ignore the fliers as a whole such as my current daemons build. However, even if he is snap firing he still posses 15 missile launchers and a couple of auto cannons that can really do a number on my night scythe's.
The problem is that if he attempts to deal with your fliers, he has no game against your Wraiths and Barges. If he attempts to deal with your Wraiths and Barges, your Heldrake and Scythes will rip him up. I think you have just too many threats for him to deal with, even with Split Fire.
You have managed to see the strength of the list where others see a lack luster list. That is precisely why the list does so well. On paper the list may look like crap. However, it is hard to target prioritize against because of the amount of units that can reliably threaten the enemy. Often people pick either the wraiths or the daemon prince on turn one and shoot everything they got at him. This usually leaves the counter-part unhindered as well as my dakka platforms. There is no real right answer. If my opponent has an off shooting phase turn 1 and fails to do any real damage then I am on him turn two with at least one charge possibly three. All the while my AB's are picking off their troops in the open or medium to light armor. This isnt even considering what reserves I get turn 2. The list hits like a truck and has a lot of impetuous even after initial contact.
For those criticizing the list. I respect your comments and I will let you know that I am taking the list to Adepticon if I am able to attend. The only addition to the list is one more night scythe for the foot slogging warriors. You are welcome to take a crack at it. In addition, I am curious... What would be your target priority and why?
To people reading report. I am trying to get time for game 5 but I am a stifling work load this week. So it may be delayed until as late as Friday. My apologies!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 23:26:34
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
jy2 wrote: I apologize for the slightly OTT, but I wonder why that certain blue-blogger hasn't made any comments about the BAO winner?
He hates Forge World, didn't plan to attend and as far as I know he doesn't normally comment on tournaments. In all likelihood he won't say anything about it, even when it's a good example of FW being widely used. I don't really get what he's been ranting about against 6th either but I live in the UK so it's very different here. Basically, he hasn't before and probably never will comment on the BAO.
As for Tomb Kings army, I'm still not sold on the Daemon Prince but the results speak for themselves. It's certainly an impressive win and I'd be interested to see if such an army survives with Sabre platforms around. Looking forwards to seeing the rest of the reports!
2013/03/13 03:16:55
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute... 4 1/2 of 7 posted (Day 1 Complete)
You have managed to see the strength of the list where others see a lack luster list. That is precisely why the list does so well. On paper the list may look like crap. However, it is hard to target prioritize against because of the amount of units that can reliably threaten the enemy. Often people pick either the wraiths or the daemon prince on turn one and shoot everything they got at him. This usually leaves the counter-part unhindered as well as my dakka platforms. There is no real right answer. If my opponent has an off shooting phase turn 1 and fails to do any real damage then I am on him turn two with at least one charge possibly three. All the while my AB's are picking off their troops in the open or medium to light armor. This isnt even considering what reserves I get turn 2. The list hits like a truck and has a lot of impetuous even after initial contact.
For those criticizing the list. I respect your comments and I will let you know that I am taking the list to Adepticon if I am able to attend. The only addition to the list is one more night scythe for the foot slogging warriors. You are welcome to take a crack at it. In addition, I am curious... What would be your target priority and why?
To people reading report. I am trying to get time for game 5 but I am a stifling work load this week. So it may be delayed until as late as Friday. My apologies!
Your army is very solid. It plays somewhat very similar to my pure necrons:
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, ResOrb
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, ResOrb
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors
I've got a double threat in 2 fast wraithwing deathstars and a specialized flyer - the doom scythe - to take on mech and tough infantry. You've got a double threat in a wraithstar and your DP as well as a specialized flyer - the heldrake - to take on normal infantry. Both lists play similarly and does require a little finesse. You need to bide your time and wait for Turn 2 when you hit your opponent with the full force of your army. Few armies can handle that type of pressure. I can definitely see this type of army winning tournaments. The DP can survive as long as you play him with care (i.e. you basically need to hide him until support arrives).
jy2 wrote: I apologize for the slightly OTT, but I wonder why that certain blue-blogger hasn't made any comments about the BAO winner?
He hates Forge World, didn't plan to attend and as far as I know he doesn't normally comment on tournaments. In all likelihood he won't say anything about it, even when it's a good example of FW being widely used. I don't really get what he's been ranting about against 6th either but I live in the UK so it's very different here. Basically, he hasn't before and probably never will comment on the BAO.
As for Tomb Kings army, I'm still not sold on the Daemon Prince but the results speak for themselves. It's certainly an impressive win and I'd be interested to see if such an army survives with Sabre platforms around. Looking forwards to seeing the rest of the reports!
He will if someone brings it up. I'm surprised no one there has brought it up.
The DP is actually a support character and as long as you can take the heat off of him (i.e. support him with the rest of your army), then he can actually excel as we have seen so far in Tomb King's games. The trick is to keep him out of LOS from the enemy shooting (or to minimize it at least) so that he has a chance to make it into combat. As long as his 2 wrecking squads can survive until his flyers come in, then he's in very good shape. The flyers and annihilation barges actually do the majority of the damage in many cases. Tesla-destructor-spam is a very under-rated necron secret. Most people focus in on the wraiths, but it is their shooting that will wear you down in the long haul.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/13 03:22:33
Well I hit a snap on the opord so I am taking a break. I will at least try to get the ball rolling on round 5. As requested I am gonna try and forge a little more of a narrative in the reports. Let me know what you all think of the change.
Round 5:
Opponent: Will Loy
His army: SW/IG Mission: 5 (Crusade, & purge the alien)
Deployment: Dawm of War
Daemon Prince boon: I think it was +1 AS ; Powers TZ: Detonate Bio: Iron Arm, Warp Speed
We roll off to go first and I win the roll to go first.
His army:
HQ:
Rune Priest in Power Armor
Elite:
3 Wolf Guard terminator pack (power-axe/Combi-Melta)
Troops:
10 Grey Hunters (Mark of the Wulfen, 2x melta gun, 1x power axe)
10 Grey Hunters (Mark of the Wulfen, 2x melta gun, 1x power axe)
10 Grey Hunters (Mark of the Wulfen, 2x melta gun, 1x power axe)
Heavy Support:
6 Long Fangs (5x ML)
6 Long Fangs (5x ML)
6 Long Fangs (5x ML)
Pre-game Analysis: I finally got iron arm on game 5. However, he has a rune priest and can shut me down pretty reliably so it is kind of bitter sweet. The rune priest well definitely be a priority target. In addition, all of his long fangs can make pretty short work of my daemon prince if I am not careful. With or without iron arm. In addition, 15 missle launchers can really take down some barge's with weight of dice. It only takes one penetrate to reduce my armor to 11. TBH this is a match-up I am not looking forward to playing. It will most likely be a close one. I cant remember if my boon was +1 AS on the prince. I think it was which gave my prince a good boost form the missle launchers but he still has at least 13 melta guns in his army.
Deployment: As usual I deploy the 3 barges. 2 Center left, 1 center right. Holding the center are the Wraiths + Dlord and the prince is behind them. He deploys two of his long fangs in the rune on the left utilizing the cover and the elevation to get good line of sight. He places all 3 grey hunter squads in the center with a Terminator Wolf Guard at the front of each. His rune priest joins the middle of the three grey hunter squads. Both of his chimera are placed on the center left. The one infantry squad is placed in the floor of the ruins on the left. Finally his 3rd Long Fangs squad is deployed in area terrain on the right flank.
Necron/CSM Turn 1:
Spoiler:
I cast iron arm and manage to boost my toughness by 3. I am feeling pretty good with the combination of my T8 and save that I head 24" straight towards his ruins. The wraiths high tail it towards the center trying to use the middle hill to mitigate some of the line of sight. I am also trying to remain out of melta range if possible. The 2 barges on the left flank open up and kill 3 of his nearest long fang squad leaving just 3 in the open left. The daemon prince cast his beam attack and just as it manifest the power dissipates. The daemon roars in outrage and immediately identifies the priest foolish enough to deny him. To be continued...
Space Wolves Turn 1:
Spoiler:
My opponent cast divination on his squad nearest to the prince. The nearest grey hunter squad moves up and unleashes hell into the prince along with one long fang squad and the guardsman. I make the few saves I have to take. The prince doesn't even pay them any heed as he is fixated on the priest. The prince passes his grounding test. Two of his Long fangs along with the melta's in the grey hunter squad on the right center open up on the wraiths and manage to bring two of them down.
Necron/CSM Turn 2:
Spoiler:
I manage to only get one night scythe in from reserves along with the unit of 5 warriors. The warriors move up and hide behind the ruins on my side. The night scythe lines up for a side shot on one of his chimera and manages to wreck it. The AB's on the left flank finish off the 3 man grey hunter squad and do a number on the other grey hunter squad. They flee but they will be back. On the right flank the AB kills another Long fang but 4 still remain.
The daemon prince cast iron arm but is again met with frustration as the stalwart priest denies him. He manages to get warp speed off again though and moves up and charges into the grey hunters bellowing a challenge. A wolf terminator rises to the challenge. The daemon grabs the lumbering marine and rips him in two and hurls the remains at the squad that try to flee but find themselves to slow to escape(I8 is real hard to not get swept back into a fight). The Dlord seeing the prince hit the middle unit decides to join the fight. Cant be having a warp spawned atrocity outclass the lords finest. Once again a wolf guard steps up to meet a challenge. The Dlord unleashes mind shackle scarabs into the marine to no avail as the stubborn marine comes forward wielding a heavy axe. The dlord dispatches him before he can strike a blow with the unwieldy weapon. Around him the wraiths do a number on the grey hunters bringing down 5 of them. However, the combat ends in a stalemate as one wraith is also brought down and the defiant marines wouldn't falter.
Space Wolves Turn 2:
Spoiler:
My opponents long fangs rally and my opponents vendetta comes in and manages to take out my night scythe that's on the board. The grey hunter squad not engaged moves up to shoot melta at my far left barges. They manage to stun one of them. The long fangs on the right flank cause 2 HP's on the barge on that flank. In combat the prince issues another challenge but the priest hides behind the grey hunters. The daemon kills 5 marines and takes a wound from the squad. The dlord on the wraiths fair a little better and manage to finish off the grey hunters squad on the right flank. The dlord looks at the prince thrashing about amongst a squad of space wolves still and shakes his head. They consolidate towards the 4 man long fang squad.
Mid Game Analysis:
Spoiler:
At this point I am in a pretty good position. The daemon prince is in a very winnable combat with the grey hunters in the middle and with the wraiths free to deal with the long fangs on the right flank I can finally silence them before they down my barge on that flank. I thought about helping the prince but have no desire to take those toughness test. My left flank is actually strugling at the moment. Just the two barge's are holding it and with the grey hunters beginning to advance with melta that might change. I will need to support them soon. In addition, I will need to deal with the vendetta as it can reliably take out any of my vehicles in a given phase. AP2 + open topped means I die 50% of the time on a pen result from his las. I really could use my heldrake on this next turn. It would really help me turn the left flank around.
Necron/CSM Turn 3:
Spoiler:
I roll for reserves and get the remaining two Night Scythes and the cultist but the drake still does not come in. THe cultist enter on my back right corner behind the hill. Both of the night scythe's take shots at the vendetta but I am unable to bring it down. I manage to cause two hull points and stun the vehicle. My Annihilation barges remanuever to deal with the grey hunters advancing up the left center. One barge finishes off his long fangs on the left flank. The dlord leads his wraiths into the long fangs on the right flank and kill them off. In the center the daemon prince boost his toughness to 8 but perils and loses a wound. The rune priest prevents him from getting warp speed off. Once again the daemon tries to challenge the menacing priest but is only met by grey hunters. In a frenzy the daemon prince hacks the remaining grey hunters to bits and is left standing alone face to face with the source of his frustrations. Combat is locked.
Space Wolves Turn 3:
Spoiler:
His grey hunters in the center left move up and shoot one of the barges and then charge it. Somehow it survives the confrontation. His CCS melta squad that is still in the open moves up to try and gain a target. The squad in the other chimera(which had been immobolized at some point) disembark to fire all of their rounds into the dlord/wraiths. The dlord takes the brunt of the fire power and is unaffected. The rune priest finally steps forward to challenge the prince. Before a single blow can be struck the daemon prince snatches him up and decapitates the priest with his snarling maw feeding off of the priests warp energy. All the while the nearby guardsman seriously reconsidering their plan of attack. The prince consolidates towards the last menacing grey hunter squad.
Necron/CSM Turn 4:
Spoiler:
The heldrake comes in vector striking the grey hunters and is set up to get nearly all of them with his baleflamer. The dlord leads the wraiths towards the guardsman. The daemon prince cast iron arm again and moves to charge the grey hunters.
Space Wolves Turn 4:
Spoiler:
With the last of the space wolves being surrounded and focus fired on the remaining guardsman elect to flee the field and live to fight another day.
Results:
Spoiler:
With the game becoming a forgone conclusion and time running out we call it.
Necrons: Win primary, and secondary and get all bonus points
Post Game analysis:
Spoiler:
I would have to say I got pretty lucky during this game with my powers load out. It couldn't of happened any better for me on that front. Iron arm saved me from eating a bunch of missles on turn one and possibly being killed. The prince was able to stay locked in combat during his turns and once again the dlord/wraith combination handled itself admirably. Being able to decisively engage his army on turn 2 and remain in combat during his turn really left my opponent with the inability to use his melta as they were all either in combat or out of range of a target that wasn't in combat. Usually if the prince survives until turn 4 I am doing pretty well in the game. Some of the fine details for this game might be off because tbh I was still feeling the affects of sleep deprivation as the night before I only got 6 hours of sleep to make up for being awake for 40+.
Let me know what you think of the new style of reporting. I can either forge more of a narrative or less of a narrative. Just let me know.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/13 23:58:22
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Blackmoor wrote: I disagree. Fliers are good, but most of the lists have fliers to counter fliers.
I think a lot of the lists can beat him, it is just that the players lack the know-how.
For example: Game #1 why deepstrike the terminaters? He is rushing forward with a Demon Prince and Wraiths so he needs to keep his army together and counter-attack with the termintors assaulting out of the land raider. Game #3 why put the purifiers in reserve? He is going second so that is several turns that they could be shooting. Yes the heldrake can fry some, but his flyers should take it down.
You've obviously never played against mass necron fliers/heldrakes with a balanced list (ie. one that has 1-2 fliers and is designed to fight all-comers) if you think it's all about the "know-how".
Short of insane luck, that SM player would've stood no chance against that list even if he was the best player in the world.
2013/03/13 16:58:21
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute... 4 1/2 of 7 posted (added few pictures)
I disagree that there was no way for the first opponent to win his game. I can see a couple of options and missed opportunities from the SM player. No knock on him or Brett but saying he had no chance is a little silly.
I stand with Blackmoor on this one. Massed necron flyers/heldrakes can be handled by most lists. I run a general all-comers list with only a single squadron of 2 vendetta's as my flyers and haven't had a single issue with flyer heavy armies (read 5+ AV11 or 2-3 AV12). Anecdotal but since it's been the same with all of my lists I think it stands.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/13 16:58:55
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
2013/03/14 00:05:43
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute... 5 of 7 posted (added few pictures)
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Honestly I'd say that list games 4 and 5 were the one's where there was a slight chance you opponent could pull out a win, the other 3 list had no chance respectfully.
Your list deffiniely reminds me of Jy2's list; plays the same way too. Both you and Jy2's list composition of two death stars made up with the tesla shooting support platform is really tough to counter outside that of coming up against something like draigowing, a really good Nid player that knows how to tarpit, FNP, and MSU armies that are really fast; and even then it's still really tough Nice generalship over your army throughout the games. All I can say is don't play this army all the time otherwise you'll start to really alot of people off as many armies/list don't have the ability to counter such a list affectively while being well rounded. You don't want to become TFG, and it's not even because your a bad person but because it will be so frustrating to come against a list with such an uphill battle. All in All, great battle reports and hope you make some more
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/14 00:39:16
2500pts 2000
2013/03/14 01:24:39
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute... 5 of 7 posted (added few pictures)
Very well played for game 5. Your opponent must be a good player to have gotten that far. Iron Arm and a 2+ armor save really took your army over the top.
One thing I don't understand is why would your opponent put his RP with the grey hunters? He belongs with the mob squad. ATSKNF is probably the best thing you can give to the blob. Get assaulted by your DP or wraiths, lose, fall back and next turn light them up with the shooting of your entire army (and with Prescience!). That's why I didn't think your DP would survive.
Dezstiny wrote: Honestly I'd say that list games 4 and 5 were the one's where there was a slight chance you opponent could pull out a win, the other 3 list had no chance respectfully.
Your list deffiniely reminds me of Jy2's list; plays the same way too. Both you and Jy2's list composition of two death stars made up with the tesla shooting support platform is really tough to counter outside that of coming up against something like draigowing, a really good Nid player that knows how to tarpit, FNP, and MSU armies that are really fast; and even then it's still really tough Nice generalship over your army throughout the games. All I can say is don't play this army all the time otherwise you'll start to really alot of people off as many armies/list don't have the ability to counter such a list affectively while being well rounded. You don't want to become TFG, and it's not even because your a bad person but because it will be so frustrating to come against a list with such an uphill battle. All in All, great battle reports and hope you make some more
QFT! It is definitely a GT only army. If I do run it I make it very clear before hand that I am running an army in preparation for a GT and would like my opponent to bring his nastiest list he can think of. I usually run more conventional fun list at the FLGS. I am a very strong believer that with the right general you can win with just about any list. However, some are more adept to deal with others. My list is designed to hit you on turn 2. Your success or failures on turn 1 dictate how hard it is going to hit. As for making some more I should be able to finish out the report this weekend.
Dozer Blades wrote:Very well played for game 5. Your opponent must be a good player to have gotten that far. Iron Arm and a 2+ armor save really took your army over the top.
When i rolled both of those I couldn't believe my fortune. The missile launchers were a serious threat to my prince and both of those rolls directly countered that threat.
jy2 wrote:Dominating Game #5 performance.
One thing I don't understand is why would your opponent put his RP with the grey hunters? He belongs with the mob squad. ATSKNF is probably the best thing you can give to the blob. Get assaulted by your DP or wraiths, lose, fall back and next turn light them up with the shooting of your entire army (and with Prescience!). That's why I didn't think your DP would survive.
Oh well...his loss, your gain.
He didn't have them in a blob. The pcs was in the vendetta and one of the infantry squads was in that middle chimera in the picture. Placing the rune priest in the middle of the board gave him max coverage for his psychic defense and gave him a good location to spread prescience where it would be needed. I would of deployed him in the same location if playing his list.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Wait Tomb King isn't Tony Kopachs? For some reason I associated the two. Mind Blown!
This might possibly be the cheesiest list I have ever seen built. The only way I could see more cheese in it is to somehow have the Doom of Malantai coming in in a Spore. I like it!!!
Necrons seem to be needing a large nerf-bat to the metal groin. Tesla weapons are ridiculous (All other armies pay a premium for that many Str 7 Shots. At 90 points, the AB is horridly undercosted- and it's also armour 13 pretty much ignoring stunned/shaken. Either a strength nerf or a mechanic nerf needs to take place, same with MSS.
So far the opposition has been light- getting the turn two assault off on the SW really sealed that game, they have no counter attack answer to either the DP or the Wraiths.
I think what people meant by narrative was less of a story but more detail in what was going through your mind, the context of the turn etc. I much preferred your original style, which gave maximum information in minimum text, rather than some relatively less interesting pseudo-fluff.
Keep em coming!
To the guy who said this army will win no friends: Its a tournament list, with almost all of the most broken units in the game, what do you expect?
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: Wait Tomb King isn't Tony Kopachs? For some reason I associated the two. Mind Blown!
This might possibly be the cheesiest list I have ever seen built. The only way I could see more cheese in it is to somehow have the Doom of Malantai coming in in a Spore. I like it!!!
Necrons seem to be needing a large nerf-bat to the metal groin. Tesla weapons are ridiculous (All other armies pay a premium for that many Str 7 Shots. At 90 points, the AB is horridly undercosted- and it's also armour 13 pretty much ignoring stunned/shaken. Either a strength nerf or a mechanic nerf needs to take place, same with MSS.
So far the opposition has been light- getting the turn two assault off on the SW really sealed that game, they have no counter attack answer to either the DP or the Wraiths.
I think what people meant by narrative was less of a story but more detail in what was going through your mind, the context of the turn etc. I much preferred your original style, which gave maximum information in minimum text, rather than some relatively less interesting pseudo-fluff.
Keep em coming!
To the guy who said this army will win no friends: Its a tournament list, with almost all of the most broken units in the game, what do you expect?
Roger I can do more of a detailed decision making process or basically cover what I am attempting to do and why. As for the list being nasty. I would have to agree with that sentiment. IMO it is the nastiest list I have ever ran. Some people take the opposite end of the spectrum though and actually hate the list and don't think its optimal or competitive. It is the closest thing to a TAC list that I have built as of yet in 6th edition.
It preforms well against enemy fliers.
It preforms well against MC spam.
It preforms well against mech.
It preforms well against Elite MSU.
It preforms decently well against horde.(honestly the only thing I am really worried about is not being able to do enough wounds to a serious horde army. Though such armies in themselves struggle with being competitive against other armies that strive in 6th.)
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Tiredpopeye wrote: If you don't finish this, I am calling your cell to ask you about the games.
Hope you plan to get your drink on with us at Adepticon.
Would of had it up last night but had a virus that I needed to tackle. As for adepticon it will be dependent on my training on whether or not I can attempt to repeat last years success. Starting on Thursday is hurting my chances.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Dozer Blades wrote: Good luck at Adepticon if you make it. I hope you bring this army... Hard as nails.
I will be bringing this army and it will be fully painted. The only addition is the army with have one more night scythe.
Round 6:
Opponent: Dustin Sanders
His army: CSM/Daemons
Mission: 6 (The Relic & Modified Emperors Will)
Deployment: Dawn of War
Daemon Prince boon: The boon is unworthy offering ; Powers TZ: Boon Bio: Endurance, Enfeeble
We roll off to go first and I win the roll to go first.
Dustin Sanders-AKA Gravy Ghost from the blog Prey in 40k
List
HQ Chaos lord Bike, MoN, Burning brand, Murder sword
Pre-game Analysis: I was spoiled last game with all my upgrades and I could of really used them for this game. The prince starts out rough with no boon but I do manage to get enfeeble and endurance. The fnp should help and enfeeble pretty much cancels out nurgle. His list is a tally man list. I am not to worried about that because if his tally gets high enough to effect the game then it is already a rough day for me. Which two of my troops being on the groun the heldrake is a very serious threat. The spawn and the lord have the potential to lock me in combat for a few turns. In addition to all of this, plague marines are imo one of the best units for a first turn grab of the relic. I will have to take that into account because it would be my turn one move with these guys. His havocs are a serious threat to the livelihood of my prince and those missle launchers could really wreck my wraiths. If I lose both of those units I could see my opponent pretty much ignoring the rest of my army. My opponent nominates the prince as the target for the murder sword(If the fight comes I will have to kill him before he strikes).
What are your all's thoughts on this one?
Here is the board we will be playing on.
Ignore Hans army and the space wolves army currently on the table. My deployment zone on the left and his deployment zone will be on the right.
Deployment: I deploy my prince in the center of my lines behind the wraiths + dlord. On the left flank I place two of the AB and on the right I place the other. Everything else is reserved. My opponent deploys one havoc unit in the open on the right flank and the other havoc squad in the area terrain on that same flank. He places one rhino right center. Then he places the lord + the spawn next to that rhino with the spawn using that ruin to gain a cover. His other two rhino's are placed one in the center and one next to it in left center. He reserves his heldrake and the daemons. It is night fight turn 1. He rells to seize but doesnt get it.
Necron/CSM Turn 1:
Spoiler:
Since my prince didnt get a boon i decide to roll the dice and cast boon on him to start off the game. It goes off and I roll a 2 with the tens dice.... I now have a 33% chance of making him a spawn for the game. I nervously roll the dice and find myself relieved to see a 6. Plus one BS was not worth the squeeze. Wont be doing that again. I cast endurance on the prince and move him directly towards his havocs placing him just behind the tree's at the top of the board shown above. The wraiths advance to the center and run some to get within range to keep him from grabbing the relic. The barge's on the left flank move up and fire at his rhino's there and manage to wreck one claiming me first blood. The barge on the rhino manages 4 hits but only does 1 hp of damage to the rhino on the right flank. Was hoping to slow them down from coming over and focusing on the prince.
CSM/Daemons Turn 1:
Spoiler:
He gets his daemons in and they deepstrike in the area terrain on my right flank where his objective was placed. Modified capture and control you had to place one objective your opponents deployment zone. He moves the spawn up to the center along with the lord and he lines up for a charge on the prince if I get grounded. His rhino with the plague marines moves up to get in plasma range as well. The remaining rhino in the center moves up 12" but they decide not to disembark this turn with the wraiths being a serious threat. His plague marines dislodged from their ride on the left flank fire at the wraiths but do no damage. He fires his havocs into the prince and manages to do 2 wounds. I roll two 2's and then fail both FnP's. I then roll the grounding test and roll another 2, followed by a failed invul save and another failed FnP. He fires the havoc missle launchers into the prince and I fail the first save and the ensueing FnP. The prince failed 100% of his saves including FnP and died to the first 4 wounds he took and failed the only grounding test he was required to take. The one save is his spawn are out of position to charge my wraiths.
Early-game analysis:
Spoiler:
Holy that was a bad round of shooting for me. Though I have no one to blame but myself. I made a serious error in placing the prince directly in front of all of his firing assets. Perhaps the boon debacle or just lack of sleep had something to play into that poor decision. Either way my opponent capitalized on my mistake. I now have a case of my own strategy whereas I have more priority targets then I have units to deal with them. I want to kill his troops in the rhino in the middle but the spawn have to be dealt with. In addition his havocs are running amok with no real solution in site. I could really use the heldrake and a few of the fliers next turn.
Necron/CSM Turn 2:
Spoiler:
I manage to get the cultist in from reserves along with one night scythe. The cultist move onto my objective on my left most flank. I place them 2" apart as much as possible and place them behind the hill there. If the heldrake comes it might be a rough day for them. I move the dlord and the wraiths over to get into position to charge his spawns + lord, they will need to be dealt with and if I dont charge them they will charge me. Myswell dictact the engagement and try to get slay the warlord in the process, I keep my options open though if I can pop his rhino. One of my barges on the right moves to the center to help shoot his rhino moving that direction. He manages to make his cover saves. The other barge on the left flank fires and kills a plague marine or two. On the right flank the barge moves to the center and takes a few pot shots at epidemius and company. I manage to kill 2 of the plague bearers. My dlord+wraiths make the all or nothing charge into his spawn. He rolls the result to give them poison attacks and he gets to strike first. I issue a challenge to his lord and he passes MSS test. He rolls to hit my lord but needs 's to wound. He causes one but I save it. I manage to wound him once in return. The spawn roll there random amount of attacks and get a . He rolls his 5 attacks and manages to do 1 wound to me but I save it. The wraiths answer the call and do an impressive 10 wounds. The combat is locked but the momentum shift was unmistakable. We are back on level terms.
CSM/Daemons Turn 2:
Spoiler:
His heldrake comes in and goes straight for the cultist on the left flank. He manages to kill 4 of them including the champion. They pass their leadership though. With my wraiths locked in combat his rhino in the middle moves up and his plague marines get out and grab the relic. His rhino on the right flank ducks inbehind the middle piece of terrain. His havocs fire at my night scythe and I evade but no damage is done. His rocket launchers shoot at my AB on the right flank but no real damage is taken. His plague marines on the left flank begin to move back into the area terrain there and his other objective. The plague bearers move in behind epidemius into the area terrain on my right flank. The combat continues and again he passes his MSS. My wraiths manage to finish off his spawn though. Me and his lord fail to do any damage to each other and the combat is locked for another round.
Necron/CSM Turn 3:
Spoiler:
The 5 man warrior squad and 2 scythe come in from reserves, again no heldrake. The 2 night scythe head to shoot his heldrake. They fire everything into it but my armor pens are either saved or rolled poorly. I do end up causing 2 hp's though. The 3 annihalation barges fire everything into his plague marines on the relic. The tesla ability really shines here and I get an amazing amount of wounds on them. They succumb to the onslaught and I manage to kill all 7 plague marines. That was something I needeed to happen. The 5 man warrior squad comes in behind the cultist and maxing out the 2" coherency. The combat between the lord and the dlord+wraiths ends in another stalemate. He makes 2 invul saves and passes mss.
CSM/Daemons Turn 3:
Spoiler:
His heldrake flies over vectoring the cultist luckily he only brings down 2. The pass their leadership and he kills a further 2 with the baleflame. Again the cultist hold their ground. In the middle my opponent moves his rhino onto the relic to deny me grabbing it. His plague marines on the left flank consolidate on the objective there. His last rhino moves to the center of his side. The havoc missiles take a hp off of one of the barge's. The auto cannon havocs shoot at a night scythe and again I evade but he causes no damage. In combat my lord finally kills his and they consolidate towards the havocs. His plague bearers and epidemius move onto his objective in my deployment zone.
Necron/CSM Turn 4:
Spoiler:
The heldrake finally arrives. I have several targets in mind. He vectors the middle rhino and flames the auto cannon havocs killing all but 1. The rhino in the middle loses one hp. One night scythe moves to fire at the plague bearers and wounds epidemius. The other 2 focus on his plague marines on the objective on his side. The two AB in the middle focus all their firepower on the rhino in the center. I roll terrible for armor penetration and fail to destroy the rhino. The AB on the left flank finishes off the heldrake by removing its last hull point. His one model havoc squad flee's. MY wraiths move in and charge the missile launcher toting havocs. They are slaughtered and the wraiths consolidate into his deployment zone.
CSM/Daemons Turn 4:
Spoiler:
With his plague marines on the left flank being dwindled down he moves his rhino towards that objective. His plague bearers consolidate on the objective in my deployment zone. He takes a few pot shots at the barge's. The rhino in the center remain where it is.
Late game analysis:
Spoiler:
I realize its already turn 5 and I am out of position to get the objectives. I could very well lose this game 2 to 1 on objectives. Essentially if I am unable to get him off these objectives then I could lose this game. That damn rhino still being alive in the center hurts. The plague bearers in my deployment zone are going to be hard to kill. If this game ends on turn 5 I will most likely lose 6 to 5.
Necron/CSM Turn 5:
Spoiler:
My Night scythe are out of position to get to the far objective next to the wraiths. So I decide to play the game as if it is going to turn 6. I make a serious error here and I forget to move the dlord+ wraiths. I run them some to get the lord in position for a possible run to contest. One barge drops off 5 warriors in the middle and they run up towards the relic. An annihilation barge blows the rhino there sky high. Shooting as his plague bearers I manage to kill epidemius but 4 plague bearers still remain. The heldrake flies over and helps me finish off his plague marines.
CSM/Daemons Turn 5:
Spoiler:
My opponent disembarks his plague marines onto his home objective. They take a few shots at the heldrake in front of them but cause no damage.
Now the all important game deciding roll to see if the game continues(Includes Results and Post Game Analysis):
Spoiler:
Sorry the wife called me for lunch be back later with the result ... alright i will end the torture. We decide to let me roll it and I roll a 4. The game continues.
Necron/CSM Turn 6: The warriors in the middle move 2" and barely secure the relic. My Dlord moves back 12" towards the objective on my side. a unit flies over and disembarks on my objective in his deployment zone next to the wraiths. All of my shooting focus on his plague marines and the plague bearers. I kill all but 2 plague bearers. The plague marines at least one survives. The dlord runs and gets a 3. He barely contest the objective in my deployment zone.
Game ends:
Necrons/Csm: 9
CSM/Daemons: 1
Post game Analysis: This game was a very close one and it came down to a 66% chance of me being able to win it if the game continued. That one was a little to close for comfort. I made several mistakes during the game and my opponent was able to capitalize on them but the dice didn't agree with him on this one. I wont lie that I got a little lucky pulling this one out. My opponent made a mistake as well though by picking the daemon prince as the source for the murder sword. He originally thought the prince was my warlord. In addition, the wraiths handling the spawn the way they did really helped turn the game around. Even though I was locked in combat for a good portion of the game he wasnt able to shoot me and the wraiths were able to take out the havoc threat as well as clearing that area for a late turn grab of the objective. In addition, the heldrake which was really needed on turn 2 didnt come until turn 4. Though he was effective when he arrived it would of been nice to have him earlier. Either way I am glad to escape this game with a victory.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/17 18:35:01
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
First 2 round posted. Will try and get the rest up in the morning.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
So you won 1st place right? I think that losing the prince early was okay since your opponent had to focus fire his whole army to bring it down. I have found that can really end up costing you.
Dozer Blades wrote: So you won 1st place right? I think that losing the prince early was okay since your opponent had to focus fire his whole army to bring it down. I have found that can really end up costing you.
No this was just round 6. The next round is the finals.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: That Nurgle themed list seems extremely scary on paper, but Epidemius and the Plaguebearers are just a points sink IMO.
Eh, he just shot it with his heavy weapons. It's about time the damn Daemon Prince started paying for just charging into his entire gunline
Looks like Necron cheese powered you through to victory on this one again MSS and Wraiths FTW
Oh and AB's wiping a unit of 7 Plague Marines on one turn of shooting? Absurd.
You didn't even need your Heldrake for 2/3rd of the game. Necrons are just that broken.
MSS didn't do anything for me this game. I was left fighting the lord on my own. Luckily he was only S4 against T6 with an ap3 weapon. So he had trouble wounding me.
As for the barges yea they did extremely well that turn. Even the bottom gun rolled a 6 or two to hit and generated extra dice.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/18 00:16:40
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Actually it's not all that absurd... Especially if TK was rolling hot and his opponent cold. The anni barge is one of the best units in the game right now.
Round 7:
Opponent: Hanz Krueger
His army: Necrons
Mission: 7 (Crusade and Table Quarters)
Deployment: Spearhead
Daemon Prince boon: The boon is +1 AS ; Powers TZ: Breath of Chaos Bio: Iron Arm; Warp Speed
We roll off to go first and he wins the roll to go first. It will also be night fight turn 1.
His army on the right... mine scattered on the left next to some chili-mac.... lmao! That is the board we play on as well. I have left corner his deployment zone mirrors that in the right.
His army:
HQ Trazyn the Infinite (warlord) 175 pts
ROYAL COURT
Cryptek (Harbringer of Storm w/ voltaic staff) 25 pts
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts
Necron Overlord 130 pts
(Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Mind-Schackle Scarabs)
ROYAL COURT
Cryptek (Staff of Light) 25pts
Cryptek (Harbringer of Storm w/ voltaic staff) 25 pts
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts
FAST ATTACK
5 x Canoptek Wraiths 175 pts
5 x Canoptek Wraiths (1 x whip coils) 185 pts
TROOPS
5 x Necron Warriors 65 pts (Ghost Ark dedicated transport) 115 pts
5 x Necron Immortals (Tesla) 85 pts
5 x Necron Immortals (Gauss) 85 pts
ELITE
5 x Deathmarks 95 pts
(NightScythe dedicated transport) 100pts
5 x Deathmarks 95 pts
(NightScythe dedicated transport) 100pt
Pre-game Analysis: After all is said and done we have a rematch of last years finals. It was a painful loss I took to Hanz and his Imotekh lead Necrons(http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/437597.page). This year doesnt have the storm lord but his list is just as brutal. His Ghost arc is a high priority target. It is the one thing in his army that can relaible wreck my AV13. In addition, his army has a lot of mobility just like mine. I have a feeling this fight will be a hard fought one whatever the outcome. I am feeling pretty good about getting Iron arm and +1 AS but I figure he will shoot me with deathmarks wounding me on a 2+ either way. I plan for removing his AB's is to focus fire on them with all 3 of mine at once. I will have to drop back and stay out of range and pounce with all my fires at once. I have to keep my wraiths away from his Annihilation barge's because the amount of dakka they can throw down can really hurt the wraiths and I have a feeling I will be needing them.
Hanz if you have a chance to read this I would appreciate your pre-game thoughts...
I will post this report tomorrow night unless training comes up as it has priority... As always what are your alls predictions and questions?
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2013/03/18 05:58:14
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
Nice generalship over your army throughout the games. All I can say is don't play this army all the time otherwise you'll start to really 
alot of people off as many armies/list don't have the ability to counter such a list affectively while being well rounded. You don't want to become 
2500pts 
2000 
Mechanicus
Ravenwing
Deathwing
; Powers TZ: Boon Bio: Endurance, Enfeeble
He fires the havoc missle launchers into the prince and I fail the first save and the ensueing 
The prince failed 100% of his saves including 
's to wound. He causes one but I save it. I manage to wound him once in return. The spawn roll there random amount of attacks and get a 
. 
That was something I needeed to happen. The 5 man warrior squad comes in behind the cultist and maxing out the 2" coherency. The combat between the lord and the 