I haven't really understood any of the trailers for the new star trek - all quick flashes of dozens of different scenes.
That said, does the new, bigger looking starfleet ship have any counterpart in the original timeline? I believe there was a Federation class battleship in TOS if I'm not mistaken.
The starship on the right is certainly more ST: TNG style.
Also, there goes my (and most other people's) Khan theory...
Well, there are still clues in the trailer that point to that theory still being viable:
Spoiler:
There is a scene where they are leaving a room full of what looks like frozen tubes. So they may have found Khan frozen in one of them. So it could still be him. But remember that in the alternative universe we are in now everything about Khan post-thawing could be very different.
And it looks like there is talk about this being a Dreadnaught class ship. Looking through the little wikis out there it seems that there was talk of a Dreadnaught class ship (with a spec-drawing) in Star Trek II and a picture of one in a training room (not looking like that though) and by Star Trek III they appear to have folded into the Federation Class of ships and it might not be an Enterprise. So in the old timeline it appears that there were Dreadnaught ships available (or at least in development) during the Khan timeline.
Of course II also featured a Starfleet Ship vs Starfleet Ship battle between Kirk & Khan, so there is that. And the rumor mills are point to the title card in the trailer as being a hint as well:
The tagline (via title cards) makes that clear but also includes Star Trek’s core message of hope “This Summer – Beyond The Darkness – Lies Greatness.”
...
Well could it be that the trailer has yet another clue (and I’m not talking about those cryo-tubes). The original Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan trailer contains a voice over which starts “Beyond the darkness, beyond the human evolution…is Khan..” Watch it.
Which would be the Federation class prototype right?
Spoiler:
It was the first Federation Transwarp prototype (which failed) and later had a normal warp core installed and became the Excelsior Class (Sulu's ship in VI)
Is the mystery ship only seen from the side angle? I'd watch the trailer but for some reason watching Youtube clips keeps crashing my broadband connection after 40 seconds or so.
From the image posted I'd say it looks vaguely like the Enterprise C with elongated nacelles.
RossDas wrote: Is the mystery ship only seen from the side angle? I'd watch the trailer but for some reason watching Youtube clips keeps crashing my broadband connection after 40 seconds or so.
From the image posted I'd say it looks vaguely like the Enterprise C with elongated nacelles.
Nah, the C had a 'neck' like the D between the saucer and engineering section.
One trap not to fall into is expecting "ships from the future," if it is indeed from the future, in this Star Trek franchise to look like ST:TNG or ST:V. With the timeline changed, any number of things could change that influenced the design of the ships (Also, artistic license from the new producer, director, etc).
AduroT wrote: Did that ship appear to have Railguns on it?
Or something similar, yes.
It did seem to, yes. My thought was that maybe they used the tech from the Romulan/Borg ship from the first film, but then I remembered that it was caught in some sort of an antimatter black hole so I don't think there would be much of it left.
If you can't watch the youtube version of the trailer you can always try Trailer Addict, and yes, it is only shown from the side.
Good catch on the Wrath of Khan trailer parallel, though it may just be an homage in the end.
They could have build an entirely new prototype super ship with recovered future tech from the Narada? They did blow chunks of it off before it was consumed by the black hole.
This is a stupidly rejigged alternative past, so all bets are off.
One trap not to fall into is expecting "ships from the future," if it is indeed from the future, in this Star Trek franchise to look like ST:TNG or ST:V. With the timeline changed, any number of things could change that influenced the design of the ships (Also, artistic license from the new producer, director, etc).
Spoiler:
my initial thought was "wtf, enterprise?". But thinking over the old movies there were already prototypes of super-heavy ships by this time. So it could be any of those ships."
I do have to say that they did a good job with the trailers and previews. Definitely get you fired up.
I heard klingons with helms are in this movie. Perhaps that is them, what with the crimping foreheads?
Spoiler:
Klingons up in the hizzy!*
*I'm deeply ashamed for typing that.
Ahh that makes sense, I only got a fleeting look at them because youtube blacks out when I pause it, I took it from the new Star Trek game featuring them as a villain it could be them.
Weren’t there Klingons in face covering helmets in a cut scene in the first one? I assumed that was because they didn’t want to commit to a particular aesthetic for the Klingons for the sake of one scene so just decided to cover their faces.
If Klingons are in this I hope we get a better look at them.
LuciusAR wrote: Weren’t there Klingons in face covering helmets in a cut scene in the first one?
They were. Nero spent some time on the prison planet Kirk did in Star Trek 6 before being busted out, thus the "50 Klingon Warships were destroyed" that Uhura overhears.
As I understand it, the Klingons in this version are a mix of the original series and the ones used in the Motion Picture and thereafter. They don't have ridges on their skulls, but are a bit more 'cro magnon'ish than humans and Vulcans. Their helmets (and coats) are part of their uniforms, and that is where the ridges are in reference to the more recent depiction of Klingons.
kronk wrote: Why would the surface of their helms have ridges?
[insert meme here] Yo dawg, I heard you like ridges, so we got ridges for your...never mind.
I have no idea where this movie is going. Cumberbatch's role was already a mystery, and now the mystery ship really makes things unclear. It sure seems like the ship is something from the future, since the Enterprise is supposed to be state of the art, and the mystery ship looks much larger AND more advanced. But would Abrams go right back to the time travel well? I guess maybe it could be a prototype. I dunno.
This is totally off the wall and almost certainly not correct, but is it possible we're looking at some kind of hugely reimagined Gary Seven? Cumberbatch could be some kind of enhanced agent sent from the future (in this case he's doing the time traveling and not the Enterprise team) to sabotage Starfleet (instead of the '60s space program).
Edit: It's funny...I just Googled this and found out that I'm not even remotely the first person to have thought of this, LOL. It's probably a more obvious villain and plotline, but at least I'm not alone on the Gary Seven idea. I didn't know this, but apparently there were some comics or novels written that connected Seven to Khan.
Whomever Cumberbatch is and whatever the ship is, it seems like this story will at most only have a vague resemblance to anything from the original series. So at this point it probably makes more sense to just treat it like a new story and a new villain, and stop wasting any mental energy on it.
They look really cheap, like something from a short lived 80s scifi like 'Otherworld', 'Buck Rodgers' or something using the word 'force' in it like 'ultraforce', I think it's the daft looking guns and low rent giant coats to save money on actual costume. I bet at some stage they attack using motorbikes and hand gliders with 'futuristic plastic paneling' on it.
They look really cheap, like something from a short lived 80s scifi like 'Otherworld', 'Buck Rodgers' or something using the word 'force' in it like 'ultraforce', I think it's the daft looking guns and low rent giant coats to save money on actual costume. I bet at some stage they attack using motorbikes and hand gliders with 'futuristic plastic paneling' on it.
I'm not sure one can really judge post pre-post production shots as final; seeing the sausage always makes it look cheap. In The Dark Knight the Batsuit when seen in stills that you can tell is just a suit with armor drawn on looks pretty cheap too, but you can't tell in the movie. That is what makes it movie magic.
One explanation for the Enterprise-As altered appearance in the alternate timeline is the recovered sensor scans the Kelvin got from its initial (and terminal) contact with the Narada. A 24th century ship appearing in 23rd century space and sticking around long enough for several planets/ships/sensor stations to scan it would likely significantly influence ship design.
Granted, that's just a convenient excuse to update all the TOS ship models, but I see no reason this has to be a future enterprise/ship
I`m so amped for this movie, I absolutely loved the 2009 reboot. I actually kinda like that everything`s still a mystery, trailers nowadays usually give away too much.
Sgt_Scruffy wrote: One explanation for the Enterprise-As altered appearance in the alternate timeline is the recovered sensor scans the Kelvin got from its initial (and terminal) contact with the Narada. A 24th century ship appearing in 23rd century space and sticking around long enough for several planets/ships/sensor stations to scan it would likely significantly influence ship design.
Granted, that's just a convenient excuse to update all the TOS ship models, but I see no reason this has to be a future enterprise/ship
And one thing we have not mentioned: Old Spock is there.
He already handed out "new" techniques like beaming across space, so he might push ship development along a bit.
If you remember the history of Klingon's they lost their ridges in a stupid storyline during Star Trek Enterprise and that did not sit well with them. Enterprise's events weren't altered by Nero's arrival, so that still happened and is probably why they have ridges on their helmets (to make up for not having them on their heads).
That way the audience can easily identify them as Klingon (while still adhering to canon) since the ridgless Klingon's haven't been that common since TOS and Klingons with ridges featured prominently in TNG and DS9.
LordofHats wrote: If you remember the history of Klingon's they lost their ridges in a stupid storyline during Star Trek Enterprise and that did not sit well with them. Enterprise's events weren't altered by Nero's arrival, so that still happened and is probably why they have ridges on their helmets (to make up for not having them on their heads).
That way the audience can easily identify them as Klingon (while still adhering to canon) since the ridgless Klingon's haven't been that common since TOS and Klingons with ridges featured prominently in TNG and DS9.
That is assuming the producers are taking everything as canon, which I doubt they are. God I hope they aren't. That was a bit of a retcon story to explain a change that was never really supposed to have any significance anyway more than any reasoned, well thought, narrative decision. It is like Klingons getting cloaking devices because of trades with Romulans when the real reason is Paramount wanted to save money on Star Trek III so changed the villain from Romulan to Klingon to use the costumes and sets from TMP without making really any other changes to the story.
God I hope they aren't. That was a bit of a retcon story to explain a change that was never really supposed to have any significance anyway more than any reasoned, well thought, narrative decision
Oh I agree. That whole 'this is why they didn't have ridges' thing was stupid (and I'm a canon adherent!). But a lot of Star Trek fans are super into the canon so we care about that stuff and I'd assume that the production team is keeping that in mind.
It is like Klingons getting cloaking devices because of trades with Romulans when the real reason is Paramount wanted to save money on Star Trek III so changed the villain from Romulan to Klingon to use the costumes and sets from TMP without making really any other changes to the story.
And because I'm canon adherent I must inform you that it's Bird's of Prey, not Cloaking devices that Klingon's got as a result of Star Trek III. Cloaking Devices were canonically traded to Klingon's in TOS (though I think Enterprise stopped the first attempt at a physical trade). Bird's of Prey were a Romulan ship that fell into Klingon hands as a result of production of the STIII and there was some silly after the fact background story about how the BoP was stolen by the Klingon's from the Romulans w/e. That's why the B'Rel BoP has the eagle wings on its nacelles. The ship in STIII was originally meant to be Romulan. EDIT: Also why Klingon ships there after started being green instead of metal gray.
LordofHats wrote: And because I'm canon adherent I must inform you that it's Bird's of Prey, not Cloaking devices that Klingon's got as a result of Star Trek III. Cloaking Devices were canonically traded to Klingon's in TOS (though I think Enterprise stopped the first attempt at a physical trade). Bird's of Prey were a Romulan ship that fell into Klingon hands as a result of production of the STIII and there was some silly after the fact background story about how the BoP was stolen by the Klingon's from the Romulans w/e. That's why the B'Rel BoP has the eagle wings on its nacelles. The ship in STIII was originally meant to be Romulan. EDIT: Also why Klingon ships there after started being green instead of metal gray.
That is all years after the fact retconning to try and explain something that Paramount did in a movie, and it wasn't done very well. As I said, they didn't change almost anything from the original script except the words 'Romulan' to 'Klingon'. The ship had already been designed when the decision had been made. If you look at Star Trek III as about Romulans it makes much more sense: bird of prey (both name and iconagraphy), cloaking, and being sneaky instead of 'feth yeah we are mighty warriors'.
If you look at Star Trek III as about Romulans it makes much more sense: bird of prey (both name and iconagraphy), cloaking, and being sneaky instead of 'feth yeah we are mighty warriors'.
Also agreed. Never said they were being intelligent about it There's a reason I loathe Enterprise's final season (Well I loathe Enterprise in general but the final season especially).
I generally pretend that Enterprise never existed, and I loved the idea behind it. They could have done so much with the show but made TNG light with a dash of Voyager.
Mostly I hated the "We're humans and we get that your culture does things differently but frankly our culture does them better" aspect of the show. After years of watching TNG, DS9, and Voyager (EDIT: Well, less so Voyager) that attitude really didn't sit well with me in the slightest. It was the exact opposite of Star Trek as I'd come to know it.
Ahtman wrote: I generally pretend that Enterprise never existed, and I loved the idea behind it. They could have done so much with the show but made TNG light with a dash of Voyager.
There was so much promise to Enterprise. They could have kicked off the Klingon Wars, introduced the Romulans, dip into some of the old enemies (Dorn, I think?). But instead, it was trans-dimensional time-traveling aliens or something. Dunno, really. That show got weird.
They actually did have the Romulans in one. I think in the last season they were supposed to introduce a Rumulan threat/conspiracy to Vulcan. Supposedly Earth, Andoria, and Vulcan form an alliance which becomes the basis for the Federation.
But yea agreed. A lot of promise but it went meh very fast. Could have combined some of that early stuff with a much more difficult exploration. What I mean is, ST seemed to make exploration easy. Make it hard and dangerous in those first years, with lots of mechanicals going wrong, lots of people with better tech and just dangerous and more human. Not ST light.
From wiki:
Plans for Season 5At the time of its cancellation, planning for a proposed fifth season of Enterprise was underway. Most details of this never-made season come from comments made by producer Manny Coto who in 2009 stated that two arcs of this season might have been to show the 'origins of the Federation' and 'whispers of the Romulan war', and consequently, the Romulans would have been the major villains of the season.[15]
Coto also stated that had the series been given a fifth season, the recurring Andorian character of Shran might have joined the Enterprise in an advisory role.
Other possible plans for the season included: an episode showing the construction of the first starbase; a Borg Queen origins story with Alice Krige as a Starfleet medical technician who makes contact with the Borg from Season 2's "Regeneration" and becomes the Borg Queen, and a Mirror Universe arc spanning four or five episodes.
There were also hopes for an episode in which T'Pol would finally meet her father and discover that he was in fact a Romulan agent who had posed as a Vulcan officer prior to faking his own death. The revelation that T'Pol was half-Romulan would have shed light on her affinity for humanity and as well as her interest in experimenting with emotions.
Frazzled wrote: I think in the last season they were supposed to introduce a Rumulan threat/conspiracy to Vulcan. Supposedly Earth, Andoria, and Vulcan form an alliance which becomes the basis for the Federation.
SEE! That would have been fething great. Intrigue, races trying to figure out how to work together, and so on.
Instead, we got aliens that live in aquariums in space... (the one in the back ground) I checked out of the series shortly after this episode.
What would have been far better was the proposal that got shot down in favor of Enterprise.
The proposal was a much darker series, based on Section 31 and a special ops team of that shadowy department.
It was scuppered as 'not family friendly' enough for the show. A great shame. Instead of which we got the lame duck that was Enterprise, whos only saving graces were the alien doctor (not given nearly enough airtime) and the phenomenal T'pol, who was so entirely much hotter than 7o9.
Frazzled wrote: They actually did have the Romulans in one. I think in the last season they were supposed to introduce a Rumulan threat/conspiracy to Vulcan. Supposedly Earth, Andoria, and Vulcan form an alliance which becomes the basis for the Federation.
They did do that in the last season. The Romulans were trying to start a war between the Tellerites, Andorians, and Vulcans. The Enterprise crew uncovered it, and it led to the alliance that led to the formation of the Federation.
I tried to watch and enjoy Enterprise. Friends, family, and coworkers told me it got somewhat better by the third season...I call them liars now. Although I did skip ahead and enjoy the Mirror Universe and borg episodes, they were the only thing I liked.
My thought:
Spoiler:
Benedict (BC) is not from the future but somehow got a hold of advanced tech, like the bigger ship. BC is either a criminal mastermind/augment that Starfleet has kept in a high security prison. He managed to escape during the events of ST09 and stole the ship after stumbling upon it.
If he is an Augment: During his time in the high security prison, Section 31 did inhumane tests on him to find out how to control him and make him a weapon for Starfleet.
Criminal Mastermind: Section 31 kept him locked up in harsh, inhumane, conditions and violated his rights as a living being, driving him to be worse then he was before.
There could be two ways, among many, that the ship is there.
1) The ship locked in and warped to a distress beacon that Old Spock had acitvated after his first encounter with the Narada. When they arrived, Old Spock had already been pulled in to the black hole along with Narada and unable to break free due to their close proximity, they were pulled in too. The crew is left knocked out from the jump and Section 31 finds the ship and detains them, keeping the ship.
2) Some how Section 31 got the schematics/the ship and decided it would be in the best interest of security to have it built/repaired in case any more Naradas come around. The ship isn't to its fullest potential but it is powerful enough to be a threat for any ship of their time period.
I hope Section 31 doesn't exist actually. Wasn't formed partly because of Kirk's travails in time hopping, which haven't happened yet in this alternate universe. Now, I suppose a nascent form of it might be in the works due to the time traveling from the 09 film, but it shouldn't be that well informed at this point in the game if that were true, as they don't have a lot of time travel information to deal with.
I don't believe the other ship is from the future either, just that when i first saw it I thought of the Enterprise E. I imagine it is a dreadnought of some sort, and certainly not expected to be in the hands of one man. I'm pretty sure the villain is genetically enhanced, and while Khan may not be in it I think there will be, if nothing, a reference to him. This may be a way to set up a new confrontation down the line.
I didn't mind the first few episodes of Enterprise. The sense of wonder, the uncertainty, the constant screw ups was something I really liked. I wish they hadn't immediately gone off to the "gigantic threat to Earth" meme that really seemed to obsess the ST producers the last few years of the various shows. DS9 had the Dominion war (which was awesome), Voyager of course had the Borg (okay, but still) and most of the movies and Enterprise had direct "we wanna kill Earth" story arcs. First Contact, Nemesis, Enterprise, and even the new ST movie all directly concern major threats to Earth. Get back to exploring!
NOTE: I did like DS9 above all other non TOS shows though. After you watch DS9, going back and watching a TNG episode is like a high school rendition of Mary Poppins, played a bunch of B string actors with corn cobs shoved up their well you get the idea. Seriously, it has the devilish combination of being stuffy, preachy, and boring in one exquisite enchilada of bland.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Of the Treks, DS9 remains my favorite, great character development, strong plot overall and good acting.
Agreed, I thought DS9 was really good; I loved it for the cloak&dagger/political intrigue and space exploration. I really liked the Dominion War and felt they didn't give it a fare shake beyond DS9 before bringing it to an end.
the ST ToS did have large war ships, the Connie Class (or the Enterprise 01 and the A were of this class) was rated as a cruiser/heavy cruiser after the refit, the Excelsior class was rated as a heavy battle cruiser, the pic below is the dreadnought type called the Ulysses class;
The thing had the turning circle of a small moon took, an age to get up to speed, but by the grate maker it could give as good as got.
Ribon Fox wrote: the ST ToS did have large war ships, the Connie Class (or the Enterprise 01 and the A were of this class) was rated as a cruiser/heavy cruiser after the refit, the Excelsior class was rated as a heavy battle cruiser, the pic below is the dreadnought type called the Ulysses class;
The thing had the turning circle of a small moon took, an age to get up to speed, but by the grate maker it could give as good as got.
The Connie class cruiser. Yep Genghis Connie would approve.
STIII even called Enterprise a battlecruiser in the movie.
Excelsior was a battleship, lets just call it what it was baby!
Don't make me dig out my big book of trek or the starfleet command 2 game The Excelsior is a battle cruser :p Damn fine ship to When i get a chance to i'll find the fed battle ship.
AduroT wrote: Wasn't the Defiant supposed to have been the first federation ship built for war?
Yeah, the federation is meant to be a peaceful entity as a whole, so they don't have any "warship" just heavily armed exploration craft.
The dominion war changed that with alot of fleets abandoning the bring-your-family policy and ships like the Defiant class apearing that were true warships.
AduroT wrote: Wasn't the Defiant supposed to have been the first federation ship built for war?
Yeah, the federation is meant to be a peaceful entity as a whole, so they don't have any "warship" just heavily armed exploration craft.
The dominion war changed that with alot of fleets abandoning the bring-your-family policy and ships like the Defiant class apearing that were true warships.
Yes. Its almost like Cold War propaganda. That ship isn't a surviellance bird, its just a fishing trawler...yea...a trawler... Enterprise as an exploration ship that can go toe to toe with a D7. Sounds more like the old sailing navies. A heavy frigate like the Constitution doing exploration, but at its heart its a warship, and a bad boy at that.
Thats part of what bugged me about TNG. You wouldn't bring your family with you if part of your duties meant patrolling against enemy empires. It was all part of the PC, elitist vibe on the show.
If I remember correctly, along with the Defiant class they developed at least two other classes of real warship, one that did the transformers thing, and a sort of light cruiser. Its also my understanding the E's class is effectively a warship based on the cruiser's advances.
AduroT wrote: Wasn't the Defiant supposed to have been the first federation ship built for war?
Yeah, the federation is meant to be a peaceful entity as a whole, so they don't have any "warship" just heavily armed exploration craft.
The dominion war changed that with alot of fleets abandoning the bring-your-family policy and ships like the Defiant class apearing that were true warships.
According to the fluff, the dedicated warship idea was put into motion following the Borg invasion, iirc, with Defiant being an overpowered prototype.
AduroT wrote: Wasn't the Defiant supposed to have been the first federation ship built for war?
Yeah, the federation is meant to be a peaceful entity as a whole, so they don't have any "warship" just heavily armed exploration craft.
The dominion war changed that with alot of fleets abandoning the bring-your-family policy and ships like the Defiant class apearing that were true warships.
According to the fluff, the dedicated warship idea was put into motion following the Borg invasion, iirc, with Defiant being an overpowered prototype.
Yeah, they built the Defiant because of the Borg threat, but when that didn't materialize, it kinda got shelved. Then when the Dominion War started, they went full scale production on the things.
If I remember correctly, along with the Defiant class they developed at least two other classes of real warship, one that did the transformers thing, and a sort of light cruiser. Its also my understanding the E's class is effectively a warship based on the cruiser's advances.
Yes, the Prometheus class used Multi Vector Assault Mode and I think The Akira Class was the other one
@RossDas
Yeah, I watched DS9 recently, The defiant class was developed in reponce to the borg, but was shelved and the Deifiant (the prototype) was put into storage, to be brought back out for the dominion threat after some modifacations.
In TOS Starfleet is most certainly a military organization separate from the Federation (in the same sense that the Navy is separate from the Fed Gov). The diplomatic corp is a separate organization that they give a ride to once in awhile. There are even a few episodes where they are on combat patrol along the neutral zone if I recall.
It isn't until TNG that the two start to blend together and they become more scientists/diplomats that just happen to have guns and armoring.
The 'transformer' ship you're remembering was the Prometheus class I think.
Yes indeedy. We are geeking out this morning!
Scifi ship to ship combat is a favorite thing of mine, hence my love of BFG.
Whilst I mostly loathed Insurrection, it's detailing of certain weapons as being illegal and especially the Son'a speech to the 'bad' admiral, about the aging federation not being able to keep it's vaulted principles in the wake of other powers rising up was very good.
"Federation support. Federation procedures. Federation rules. Look in the mirror, Admiral. The Federation is old. In the past 24 months, they've been challenged by every major power in the quadrant: the Borg, the Cardassians, the Dominion. They all smell the scent of death on the Federation. That's why you've embraced our offer. Because it will give your dear Federation new life."
The Next Generation showed us the Federation at the height of it's 'Golden Age', where all the enemies were contained (romulans across neutral zones, klingons at quaint pets... I mean allies) or insignificant (ferengi as comic relief baddies, a billion 'angry little primative' races) until the Borg showed up.
You can see this in the ship design of the Galaxy Class, a giant science boat/luxury liner followed by the Sovereign Class, a stripped down, armed and armored warship designed to withstand borg cubes in war. The Golden Age ended with the Borg attack in Best of Both Worlds and the nails in it's coffin were the Dominion War and the increase in aggression across the quadrant.
I welcomed this and felt if they had gone with the Section 31 series, instead of the prequel Enterprise series, the star trek franchise could have been reinvigorated for the new, intelligent and cynical audience. But the show was held down by the millstone of the legacy of Gene Roddenberry and keeping to his 'happy happy, joy joy' future vision, which didn't fit with the darkness of the post 9/11 US viewing world, a world the scifi of Battlestar Galactica tapped straight in with.
Ahtman wrote: In TOS Starfleet is most certainly a military organization separate from the Federation (in the same sense that the Navy is separate from the Fed Gov). The diplomatic corp is a separate organization that they give a ride to once in awhile. There are even a few episodes where they are on combat patrol along the neutral zone if I recall.
It isn't until TNG that the two start to blend together and they become more scientists/diplomats that just happen to have guns and armoring.
And wear uniforms and occasionally say things like "phasers fire!"
The 'transformer' ship you're remembering was the Prometheus class I think.
Yes indeedy. We are geeking out this morning!
Scifi ship to ship combat is a favorite thing of mine, hence my love of BFG.
Whilst I mostly loathed Insurrection, it's detailing of certain weapons as being illegal and especially the Son'a speech to the 'bad' admiral, about the aging federation not being able to keep it's vaulted principles in the wake of other powers rising up was very good.
"Federation support. Federation procedures. Federation rules. Look in the mirror, Admiral. The Federation is old. In the past 24 months, they've been challenged by every major power in the quadrant: the Borg, the Cardassians, the Dominion. They all smell the scent of death on the Federation. That's why you've embraced our offer. Because it will give your dear Federation new life."
The Next Generation showed us the Federation at the height of it's 'Golden Age', where all the enemies were contained (romulans across neutral zones, klingons at quaint pets... I mean allies) or insignificant (ferengi as comic relief baddies, a billion 'angry little primative' races) until the Borg showed up.
You can see this in the ship design of the Galaxy Class, a giant science boat/luxury liner followed by the Sovereign Class, a stripped down, armed and armored warship designed to withstand borg cubes in war. The Golden Age ended with the Borg attack in Best of Both Worlds and the nails in it's coffin were the Dominion War and the increase in aggression across the quadrant.
I welcomed this and felt if they had gone with the Section 31 series, instead of the prequel Enterprise series, the star trek franchise could have been reinvigorated for the new, intelligent and cynical audience. But the show was held down by the millstone of the legacy of Gene Roddenberry and keeping to his 'happy happy, joy joy' future vision, which didn't fit with the darkness of the post 9/11 US viewing world, a world the scifi of Battlestar Galactica tapped straight in with.
Excelsior!!!
interesting thoughts. So in 50 years does the Fedreation becoming the Interstellar Terran Empire? Do we get Spock with badass goatee but this time with quantum torpedoes? Yea baby yea.
Star Trek: Rebellion. Watch as War Commander Klarg tries to form an alliance of the battered Romulan, Klingon, and Borg, in a last desperate bid for freedom against against the tyranny of the Terran Empire. Yes.
I'm not sure a principal series with the Federation as villains would have worked (love me the occasional mirror universe plots though, even the Enterprise one (evil T'pol in crop top... hrrrrnnn).
But a series about a special ops force, a force 'that does not exist', of men and women of exceptional skills and 'patriotic' views from the federation, who will do what is necessary to accomplish a better world for the citizenry, would be great. They know they exist so that the rest of the federation can continue to hold it's moral fiber, be a wonderful place full of paradises like Riza and Betazed and hold to high morals like prime directives and star fleet regulations, they themselves absolutely trample those codes every day because they love them and want them to exist 'for everyone else'.
I'm thinking about Garrak in the DS9 episode 'In the Pale Moonlight', also the frankly brilliant character of The Operative in Serenity. Remember this:
The Operative: It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin. Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world? The Operative: [i]I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.
Scary SOBs, taking familiar comforting things from the Federation and turning them loose on the Tal'Shia or the Obsidian Order or the Jem Hadar remnant cells, or launching preemptive strikes on borg harvesting a civilization or new and rising threats so that the federation just never finds out about them or that their society is crippled from developing warp tech, assassinating dangerous individuals and waging secret wars. Using cloaking devices, metagenic weapons, isolytic subspace weapons, intrusive vulcan mind meld interrogations, betazoid mind wiper 'cleaners', binar codebreakers etc.
It could have been sweet, ah well. History proved otherwise and once again, we were treated to why suits with no love of scifi should not be allowed to steer it.
DS9 seemed almost prophetic if you look at the Federation/Starfleet as the United States pre 9/11 and post 9/11. They saw themselves as paragons of virtue and goodness fighting against the evil Dominion. As the war unfolds, the dark seedy underside of the Federation begins to show itself. Lying/deceiving others (Romulans) to get them to join the war on their side (*cough* Iraq *cough*), Section 31 coming to light, and the casualty lists being posted that reminded me so much of the news cycle's obsession with the casualty lists of the early Iraq/Afghan war.
If I were to relaunch the Star Trek series post DS9/Voyager I think it would almost be worthwhile to launch two different series. One would focus on the Federation picking itself up from multiple wars and threats, grappling with its identity and wavering in its sense of destiny. The other could be a more traditional TNG/TOS/VOY like show with a single crew trying to stay true to the original mission of exploration/diplomacy. I think it would aptly show the crossroads at which the Federation finds itself.
NOTE: I did like DS9 above all other non TOS shows though. After you watch DS9, going back and watching a TNG episode is like a high school rendition of Mary Poppins, played a bunch of B string actors with corn cobs shoved up their well you get the idea. Seriously, it has the devilish combination of being stuffy, preachy, and boring in one exquisite enchilada of bland.
Man, that post was full of win. I thought I was the only one who thought that way about TNG.
But am I the only one who remembers the dreadnought-class ship (with three nacelles) from the Star Trek Technical manual?
NOTE: I did like DS9 above all other non TOS shows though. After you watch DS9, going back and watching a TNG episode is like a high school rendition of Mary Poppins, played a bunch of B string actors with corn cobs shoved up their well you get the idea. Seriously, it has the devilish combination of being stuffy, preachy, and boring in one exquisite enchilada of bland.
Man, that post was full of win. I thought I was the only one who thought that way about TNG.
No, you are not alone. For me it was the birth of Babylon 5 that made me see very clearly how gak TNG mostly was...mostly...
It was incredible, when Babylon 5 finally happened, to see how scifi should be. A B5 'filler' episode might be an entire species dying out of a plague or gangster using a brain eating alien to control the slums of the station, whilst it's actual, glorious story arc gained it's momentum. TNG was almost all 'filler', endless episodes about Deanna Troi getting a funny headache for various reasons, Worf being endlessly beaten up by everything (oh look at the klingons and their foolish violent ways and obsession with honor, lets skip merrily over the part of the fluff where they've had a vast space empire for hundreds of years prior to us getting anywhere near space...), Geordi being a sad blind loser in love and the relentless 'Data's a bit like Pinocchio, awww' stories, all to a backdrop of Riker doing that strange lopsided lurching around looking for women or things to try and hump, like an overly amorous sasquatch.
But am I the only one who remembers the dreadnought-class ship (with three nacelles) from the Star Trek Technical manual?
They had those in the game Star Trek: Birth of the Federation. It was ok, I guess. I preferred Masters of Orion II, which is similar in many ways. Once you could start cranking the higher technology ships out, you were golden.
NOTE: I did like DS9 above all other non TOS shows though. After you watch DS9, going back and watching a TNG episode is like a high school rendition of Mary Poppins, played a bunch of B string actors with corn cobs shoved up their well you get the idea. Seriously, it has the devilish combination of being stuffy, preachy, and boring in one exquisite enchilada of bland.
Man, that post was full of win. I thought I was the only one who thought that way about TNG.
No, you are not alone. For me it was the birth of Babylon 5 that made me see very clearly how gak TNG mostly was...mostly...
It was incredible, when Babylon 5 finally happened, to see how scifi should be. A B5 'filler' episode might be an entire species dying out of a plague or gangster using a brain eating alien to control the slums of the station, whilst it's actual, glorious story arc gained it's momentum. TNG was almost all 'filler', endless episodes about Deanna Troi getting a funny headache for various reasons, Worf being endlessly beaten up by everything (oh look at the klingons and their foolish violent ways and obsession with honor, lets skip merrily over the part of the fluff where they've had a vast space empire for hundreds of years prior to us getting anywhere near space...), Geordi being a sad blind loser in love and the relentless 'Data's a bit like Pinocchio, awww' stories, all to a backdrop of Riker doing that strange lopsided lurching around looking for women or things to try and hump, like an overly amorous sasquatch.
MGS has the way of it. While TNG was blabbing about how goody good the Federation was and humans had become, B5 was spanning galaxy wide wars asking simple questions.
But am I the only one who remembers the dreadnought-class ship (with three nacelles) from the Star Trek Technical manual?
They had those in the game Star Trek: Birth of the Federation. It was ok, I guess. I preferred Masters of Orion II, which is similar in many ways. Once you could start cranking the higher technology ships out, you were golden.
MOO2 was boss!
Have you tried Endless Space? Addiciting in the same way as MOO2.
NOTE: I did like DS9 above all other non TOS shows though. After you watch DS9, going back and watching a TNG episode is like a high school rendition of Mary Poppins, played a bunch of B string actors with corn cobs shoved up their well you get the idea. Seriously, it has the devilish combination of being stuffy, preachy, and boring in one exquisite enchilada of bland.
Man, that post was full of win. I thought I was the only one who thought that way about TNG.
But am I the only one who remembers the dreadnought-class ship (with three nacelles) from the Star Trek Technical manual?
I remember a book that featured it:
Spoiler:
Same one - or just yet another three nacelle super ship?
I am at a loss to understand why a third engine makes a ship that much scarier.
I played a lot of Birth of the Federation, usually as Romulans and spammed Birds of Prey like a madman. Nothing quite like taking down borg cubes for breakfast.
Remember kids;
If knowledge is power then to be unknown is to be unconquerable
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I am at a loss to understand why a third engine makes a ship that much scarier.
I played a lot of Birth of the Federation, usually as Romulans and spammed Birds of Prey like a madman. Nothing quite like taking down borg cubes for breakfast.
Remember kids;
If knowledge is power then to be unknown is to be unconquerable
Interestingly the real life HMS Dreadnought owed much to having a cutting edge engine - it would have been to slow to get into battle otherwise. I doubt that relates to Federation dreadnoughts however, more likely it's viewed as a way to make the ship look 'more' while retaining the classic saucer and engineering hull appearance.
Interestingly the real life HMS Dreadnought owed much to having a cutting edge engine - it would have been to slow to get into battle otherwise. I doubt that relates to Federation dreadnoughts however, more likely it's viewed as a way to make the ship look 'more' while retaining the classic saucer and engineering hull appearance.
I much preferred the 'beefed up' Voyager with ablative armor and additional weaponry to give it a more formidable profile. Remember what a single cube did at Wolf 359
Frazzled wrote: MGS what was that? How do two torpedoes take down a Borg cube and one Enterprise sized ship fight off three without much effort.
Info please? I didn't watch Voyager after a few episodes past when the Hrogin took over the ship for an episode.
Final story, Future Jayneway breaks temporal prime directives and goes back in time, gives Voyager what it needs to really really really screw up the borg and give the borg queen a very bad day whilst hijacking their 'webway' to get back to the alpha quadrant.
Also, Voyager is a lot smaller than either galaxy or sovereign class enterprises, about the same size as the constitution class if I recall.
Frazzled wrote: Awesome. So evidently the Federation technology advances in 20 make it royally badass. Now is the time for them to strike! The galaxy is theirs!
Well, while it's never explicitly stated, they flat out crippled the Borg in that episode. They collapsed a portion of their webway, blew up their main hub, and wrecked a ton of cubes. The Borg took a massive hit, though I did have a bit of a beef with that episode.
The warp conduit opened up right in Sector 001. Close enough to earth to see it with the naked eye. So why the hell hadn't the Borg just rushed them before then?
A nacelle was an outboard engine housing structure on spacecraft. The nacelles in warp-capable shuttles and starships housed the warp coils of the vessels warp drive. Warp nacelles were also sometimes known as power nacelles, antimatter nacelles, warp drive pods, or space/warp propulsion units during the 23rd century. (TOS: "The Doomsday Machine", "Bread and Circuses"; TNG: "Datalore") Impulse nacelles of a sublight shuttlecraft housed the ships impulse driver engines. (TNG: "In Theory", "Descent" display graphic)
The warp coils in warp nacelles created a subspace displacement field, which "warped" the space around the vessel allowing it to "ride" on a spatial distortion, and travel faster than the speed of light. (ENT: "Cold Front") While not always present on starships, warp nacelles were the most common component of warp flight, dating as far back as Zefram Cochrane's original warp ship, the Phoenix, circa 2063. (Star Trek: First Contact)
According to the Spaceflight Chronology (page 139), a three-nacelle configuration gives a third more power to the warp drive, greater acceleration and faster engagement
So...a third nacelle would give you greater speed and acceleration, then. And since the Dreadnoughts have more armament and stuff, they'd need it?
A nacelle was an outboard engine housing structure on spacecraft. The nacelles in warp-capable shuttles and starships housed the warp coils of the vessels warp drive. Warp nacelles were also sometimes known as power nacelles, antimatter nacelles, warp drive pods, or space/warp propulsion units during the 23rd century. (TOS: "The Doomsday Machine", "Bread and Circuses"; TNG: "Datalore") Impulse nacelles of a sublight shuttlecraft housed the ships impulse driver engines. (TNG: "In Theory", "Descent" display graphic)
The warp coils in warp nacelles created a subspace displacement field, which "warped" the space around the vessel allowing it to "ride" on a spatial distortion, and travel faster than the speed of light. (ENT: "Cold Front") While not always present on starships, warp nacelles were the most common component of warp flight, dating as far back as Zefram Cochrane's original warp ship, the Phoenix, circa 2063. (Star Trek: First Contact)
According to the Spaceflight Chronology (page 139), a three-nacelle configuration gives a third more power to the warp drive, greater acceleration and faster engagement
So...a third nacelle would give you greater speed and acceleration, then. And since the Dreadnoughts have more armament and stuff, they'd need it?
It's interesting because I went to that same link and had read this bit:
The Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual (pages 63, 65, and 66) states that the experiments with single and more than two nacelle designs, conducted in 2269, proved that having two nacelles was the optimal configuration for vessel control and power generation.
And the quote about third nacelles being compared to third wheels.
Also, just a minor grumble from me, but phasers are powered separately to the rest of the ship, so an incapacitated vessel can potentially still fight and a disarmed vessel can still run. So I don't think the nacelle affects the armaments on a ship (I don't think they'd have any influence on torps either), of course, that may well be different with disruptor weaponry on foreign power's ships.
Revealed by the official Star Trek Movie app, and then posted in high res at TrekMovie.com, a great image of that new ship we saw in the latest trailer for Star Trek Into Darkness.
According to the site, it’s the USS Vengeance, a Dreadnought-class ship.
I'm looking forward to this film a great deal, but I have one reservation: if it's like a lot of high-profile big budget films I've seen over the last few years, I expect there will be many instances of obvious plot holes, the writers making up the rules as they go along, etc. I genuinely enjoyed the last one and I own it, but even then there were some plot issues that still annoy me when I watch it (you've probably read most of these in some form or other already):
Spoiler:
-First of all, the villain's stupidity. He travelled back in time after Romulus was destroyed and sets about...declaring a one-man war on the Federation. Why not just warn the Romulans, or at least be shown to have made a token effort to do so? This gets even worse if you read the tie-in "Countdown" comic which establishes that yes, he may well blame the Federation for not acting quickly enough to save his world but he's now in a time when that hasn't happened yet.
-The treatment of black holes. They took the "hole" part way too literally. OK, it was some sort of special black hole made up for the film but why not just follow in the good old Trek tradition and call it something like a "spatial anomaly?"
-The Kobayashi Maru scene. I find this part highly annoying, they could have been more subtle about it (or even showed any subtlety at all). I though that they would show Kirk cheating in a way that wasn't glaringly obviously, for example reducing the durability and weapon damage fo the enemy ships in the simulation juuuust enough to scrape by and make his victory look like a fluke. Instead the power dips for a moment and afterwards he easily one-shots the enemy, and no-one has the sense to point out that he blatantly cheated.
-The big space thingie that was destroyed Romulus. It is described as endangering the galaxy, then the universe. Which is it (if it's the universe, that's silly IMO)?
-Spock shoots Kirk out of the Enterprise in a pod on to a planet where he'll likely die, thus completely ignoring the idea of the brig, which has been used in Star Trek for decades (but hey, they have to move the plot forward even if it means Spock acting like a regulation-defying lunatic)
-Future Spock watches as Vulcan is destroyed from the surface of his hideout planet (OK, maybe this scene was not meant to be taken literally, but the writers didn't make that clear enough if so).
-Referring to Klingon ships as warbirds (NERD RAGE! though maybe the alternate timeline thing led to this name being applied to Klingon ships instead).
So, I will certainly see the film first chance I get, and I expect to have a good time. I just hope the writers don't take "science fiction" to mean "make up any old stuff as you go along."
Frazzled wrote: Thats mean looking. It looks armored and not flimsy like other Fed ships at all. Me likey.
Almost like GW got a hold of the enterprise...
I like it too, but I don't agree with your GW assessment... not nearly enough skulls
And it looks like there is a phallic looking cannon on the neck of this ship, with a definite "hole" in the central area of the saucer section.
One thing that has always bugged me with Star Trek (and really all sci fi movies) is the disconnect between the size of the exterior of the ship, and the interior of the ship... On interior shots, it looks as though there are thousands and thousands of crew, but then you see a shot from the outside, and the shuttle takes up most of the bay door area, which is literally half the ship's backside... wtf
We’ve known for a long time that there are Klingons in Star Trek Into Darkness. Nobody’s mentioned them much lately, though. Not entirely sure why. All part of John Harrison’s JJ Abrams’ sinister masterplan, maybe.
But a new promo video for the film has included a brief clip of one without his mask-helmet on. This is the first image of a Nu Trek Klingon face to be released, so it’s probably no accident that it’s so fleeting.
They would seem to have gone more for the ‘stitched up with strings of leather’ than ‘cornish pasty’ look. Almost a shame they wear the masks at all, really.
Star Trek Into Darkness is out in the UK next Thursday, May 9th. The US release follows just over a week later, on the 17th. You can expect our review of the film… well, pretty soon, actually.
The donut shape is quite interesting. I think the thing in the middle will be elevated slightly and will end up being the bridge... or a deathray of some sort.
A recent clip showed Cumberbatch saying Kirk had "72 reasons" to visit a certain location.
Someone with better recall than me pointed out that the SS Botany Bay included Khan and 84 of his superhuman followers. Twelve cryo containers failed, dropping Khan's followers to...72.
So it looks like it might be you-know-who after all, despite Abrams' claims to the contrary. Although then it also occurred to me that Cumberbatch could be Joachim, with Khan still frozen on the ship, or elsewhere. Perhaps infiltrating Starfleet?
Wait that can't be right. They've made that dreadnought in the poster to be 2-3 miles long. If the federation could make ships that big they'd kick the crap out of the Klingons, Romulan, well everyone in the Alpha Quadrant.
Now that I think about it, sounds like a plan. Terran Star Empire here we come!
I do like the idea that, that is not Khan but Joacham trying to "reactivate" Khan. Come on guys Ricardo Montalban was just too perfect in that role.
Maybe in New Trek we'll come to find out Kirk is really the grandson of a genetically enhanced dude or something weird.
Frazzled wrote: Wait that can't be right. They've made that dreadnought in the poster to be 2-3 miles long. If the federation could make ships that big they'd kick the crap out of the Klingons, Romulan, well everyone in the Alpha Quadrant.
It is a reboot.
Though the size difference is probably just for dramatic effect. There has been a lot of that surrounding this movie.
I'm really looking forward to this one too. I love what Abrams has done...it's like he's taken all the old ingredients but is running them through the blender and seeing how the stories change.
I suppose I'm biased as an original series fan who always thought the later series (other than some moments from DS9) and a number of the movies were remarkably stale and stagnant. So although Abrams is ditching a lot of the traditional formula and feel and p*ssing off a lot of Trek fans, in some ways I feel like it's the closest thing we've had yet to the original series. The galaxy feels wilder, weirder and newer again, and the ship and crew are flying much more by the seat of their pants than the Enterprise D/E, Voyager, etc.
I'm down with that BUT
1. I don't want Khan messed with. Ricardo do too good a job to reprise him.
2. I'd rather they slowed down a little bit. Its resplendent of all the popcorn movies now. They've forgotten the greatness of pauses in action. Allow for some acting. Nonstop pow pow pow gets exhausting.
3. I'd be fine if they never did anything other than mention klingons for a long long time. I'm sick to death of klingons. Seriously, they were in what six movies? Come on dude...
Quick Review:
From the point of view of my friends who only know what the first film told them, it was brilliant, if a tad predictable in places.
From the point of view of me (someone who knows the Star Trek universe reasonably well) it was also very very enjoyable, though some points that most people wouldn't get do kind of give the plot away somewhat, and the whole "emotional climax" of the film is kind of lessened due to the previously mentioned plot points.
Regardless, it was very fun as an action movie, with some brilliant sequences, a number of well done twists and turns, and a solid plot.
Zachary Quinto is brilliant again as Spock, Chris Pine really lets Kirk grow as a character through the film, and as expected Benedict Cumberbatch hits it out of the park as John Harrison, making him absolutely brutal and savage whilst at the same time being somewhat relatable as a character.
I won't discuss any of the plot until other people bring it up, as otherwise people might get aneurysms.
Finally, this film has one of the most brutal death scenes I ave seen in cinema for a long while (not since Watchmen), and it is brilliant.
You can answer it in nested spoilers if you want or PM me to avoid it for others, but one question that I don't really care if it's spoiled and really want to know, is Cumberbatch Khan (yes, I know he goes by John Harrison)?
Because I'm seeing all different confirmations and denials from people.
I saw it last night as well. It’s a improvement on the 2009 film (which I am in minority for not liking) but it still has more than its fair share of WTF moments.
The film really can’t make up its mind regarding transporter technology. It’s effectiveness seems to be determined by whatever suits the plot best at any given moment.
Spoiler:
Early in the film Khan uses a portable transporter device to beam himself directly from Earth to Kronos. This is clearly ludicrous, if that really is possible then why the hell even bother with space ships? I face palmed a little in the 2009 flick when they managed to transport Kirk and Spock all the way from The Enterprise, which was orbiting Titan, to Neros ship, which was orbiting earth. That was bad enough but transporting half way across the Galaxy?
Later in the film the Enterprise is orbiting Earth and cannot Transport Khan and Spock up from Earth’s surface because they where ‘moving’. So a portable transporter can get you half was across the galaxy, but a full size military grade one on board the Star Fleet flagship finds a moving target on a planet directly below it to be a bit too challenging?
Personally I’d rather they have left Khan out of it and come up with an original villain. The little nods to Wrath of Khan, particularly the Kirk and Spock ‘death’ moment, just ended up reminded how much better Wrath of Khan era Trek is to JJ Abrams Trek.
Frazzled wrote: I'm down with that BUT
1. I don't want Khan messed with. Ricardo do too good a job to reprise him.
2. I'd rather they slowed down a little bit. Its resplendent of all the popcorn movies now. They've forgotten the greatness of pauses in action. Allow for some acting. Nonstop pow pow pow gets exhausting.
3. I'd be fine if they never did anything other than mention klingons for a long long time. I'm sick to death of klingons. Seriously, they were in what six movies? Come on dude...
I agree.
I don't like TOS very much. I think it has aged badly and is based on some really loony ideas from Roddenberry which were written out of canon slowly starting with STII. The three best things Star Trek ever did were Wrath of Khan, the Borg and DS9. All 3 of those things are darker and more complex in nature than the stupid hippy dippy utopia Roddenberry wanted.
The 2009 movie was none of those things. It was just sound and fury and no substance, no introspection and certainly no deeper understanding of the human condition. You can get all of those things and still be an action movie. Wrath of Khan and First Contact were both intense action movies, but they both retained the soul and spirit of Star Trek. The 2009 movie did not. I do not have high hopes for this one either on that front.
Agreed on most counts. Its interesting though-didn't he do Super8? That had excellent timing and pauses.
I think this movie will be a nice popcorn film. Not ST, just a nice popcorn sci fyey film. I will say I absolutely loved the soundtrack from the 2009 film, so thats helpful.
Frazzled wrote: Agreed on most counts. Its interesting though-didn't he do Super8? That had excellent timing and pauses.
I think this movie will be a nice popcorn film. Not ST, just a nice popcorn sci fyey film. I will say I absolutely loved the soundtrack from the 2009 film, so thats helpful.
I saw it this afternoon and class it as a pretty enjoyable action adventure - no better or no worse than the previous effort. It is of course basically a remake of an earlier adventure with some of the roles flipped.
As others have noted, this is the film's biggest flaw, as your brain skips ahead to what you think should happen next and with the big emotional climax a mirror copy of its predecessor, the impact is substantially lessened.
There is also a tacked on chase after "that scene" which is nowhere near as good as what has gone before, so the ending is bit of an anti-climax.
Spoiler:
My favourite part was when Young Spock seeks the advice of Old Spock. The look of weary resigned horror on Old Spock's face when he hears who they are up against is a great subtle piece of acting
Chris Pine - Very good and still a lot better than Shatner
Zachary Quinto - Very good, but Pine is more fun.
Zoe Saldana - Spends most of the film sulking about her boyfriend
Karl Urban - Still doesn't ring true for me. Give him another Dredd film instead.
Simon Pegg - Does great things with an expanded role
John Cho - Left on the bridge looking serious
Anton Yelchin - Disappears into engineering and only reappears when required to lend a "helping hand"
Benedict Cumberbatch - Entertaining in a scenery chewing kind of way. Be interesting to see if he returns for a later film as a good/bad guy.
Alice Eve - Spends film being very english... but also very cute, so ho hum
