This thread seems to be very similar to your other Necron thread. You should be careful about duplicating threads because the mods kind of frown on that sort of thing.
I don't know what to say. I think that they are cool. I don't fear them though. However, I would like to know this. Would you think that is would make more sense for a Grey Knight player to ally with Necrons or Eldar?
They are a minor one, but they are like a man who have suffered from a severe stroke. They just can't cut it anymore. The Nids awoke them if memory serves.
Er....I have to agree this topic is far too broad and redundant considering the other Necron topic going on right now. I think the fact that they are a faction makes them a threat in some way, especially with something like the Celestial Orrery.
Beaviz81 wrote: They are a minor one, but they are like a man who have suffered from a severe stroke. They just can't cut it anymore. The Nids awoke them if memory serves.
Can someone answer my question please? "They are a minor one, but they are like a man who have suffered from a severe stroke. They just can't cut it anymore. The Nids awoke them if memory serves."-LOL
Grey Knight Dillon wrote: I don't know what to say. I think that they are cool. I don't fear them though. However, I would like to know this. Would you think that is would make more sense for a Grey Knight player to ally with Necrons or Eldar?
Grey Knights have allied with Necrons in the past, that's where they got their tesseract labyrinths from, which are so far the only technology that can completely neutralize Daemons. They had a falling out at some point though. I imagine since Necrons are untouched by the Warp, they might in fact be the better choice rather than the Eldar that are so warp-touched.
Beaviz81 wrote: They are a minor one, but they are like a man who have suffered from a severe stroke. They just can't cut it anymore. The Nids awoke them if memory serves.
Your trolling is kind of weak
I didn't know I was trolling, but your POV means less than nothing to me.
Beaviz81 wrote: They are a minor one, but they are like a man who have suffered from a severe stroke. They just can't cut it anymore. The Nids awoke them if memory serves.
Your trolling is kind of weak
I didn't know I was trolling, but your POV means less than nothing to me.
Well if you're not trolling, that says a lot about your lack of knowledge, despite having been involved in several topics that showcased just how powerful the Necrons are. Maybe it's a learning disability, I guess.
Beaviz81 wrote: They are a minor one, but they are like a man who have suffered from a severe stroke. They just can't cut it anymore. The Nids awoke them if memory serves.
Your trolling is kind of weak
I didn't know I was trolling, but your POV means less than nothing to me.
Well if you're not trolling, that says a lot about your lack of knowledge, despite having been involved in several topics that showcased just how powerful the Necrons are. Maybe it's a learning disability, I guess.
Nah it's, just we don't see eye to eye with how powerful the Necrons are.
You very powerful, can rival Chaos even.
Me, just a spread menace which is just another plague that ravages the body of a dying man.
Yea, looking into it the Necrons really aren't quite as big of a threat as Tyranids or Chaos Daemons. Although, Daemons are more of a threat than the Tyranids.
kinratha wrote: On the TT my DKoK don't have a problem with them. and Fluff wise I agree with Beaviz81, they are a minor threat compared to Chaos or Nids.
Yeah, a minor threat. That's why they conquered over 60 planets in less than 100 days, wiped out an entire sector, and took on one of the largest imperial fleets ever assembled, with 1/3rd the amount of ships, and absolutely slaughtered them. From one Dynasty.
For me the IOM is like the dying very much disease-riddled body of a man dying. The Crons are just another affliction. they are somewhere between a nuisance and a threat. Think Tau and Dark Eldar compared to Eldar and Tyranids.
Oh sweet lord, not this again. To deny the threat the Necrons have is madness especially with the added context of their abilities in IA12. Their technology is beyond even the Eldar at their peak and ultimately were able to even defeat both the Old Ones and the C'tan. Even if they're not unified the fact that more and more Tomb Worlds are activating and the ones that have already are making expanding and retaking territory at a frightening speed shows the high level of threat they are. If even a voracious foe like the Tyranids are wary of facing them it shows how much of a force they are to be dealt with, not to mention the fact that they are one of the forces that Chaos will have trouble dealing with considering they were the ones that erected highly effective anti-warp technology like the Pylons on Cadia.
Yeah, a minor threat. That's why they conquered over 60 planets in less than 100 days, wiped out an entire sector, and took on one of the largest imperial fleets ever assembled, with 1/3rd the amount of ships, and absolutely slaughtered them. From one Dynasty. - That is a minor threat. Tyranids ravaged alot more than that. Chaos Daemons ravaged even more.
kinratha wrote: On the TT my DKoK don't have a problem with them. and Fluff wise I agree with Beaviz81, they are a minor threat compared to Chaos or Nids.
Yeah, a minor threat. That's why they conquered over 60 planets in less than 100 days, wiped out an entire sector, and took on one of the largest imperial fleets ever assembled, with 1/3rd the amount of ships, and absolutely slaughtered them. From one Dynasty.
Minor threat, of course.
Well same could be said for any race, Orks conquer alot same with tyranids and Chaos. It just comes down to what race you like more and what ones you don't.
kinratha wrote: On the TT my DKoK don't have a problem with them. and Fluff wise I agree with Beaviz81, they are a minor threat compared to Chaos or Nids.
Yeah, a minor threat. That's why they conquered over 60 planets in less than 100 days, wiped out an entire sector, and took on one of the largest imperial fleets ever assembled, with 1/3rd the amount of ships, and absolutely slaughtered them. From one Dynasty.
Minor threat, of course.
Well same could be said for any race, Orks conquer alot same with tyranids and Chaos. It just comes down to what race you like more and what ones you don't.
It wasn't just "Conquer alot" It was the speed, and efficiency in what they conquered, and the fact that their Naval power so far outstrips that of the Imperium, that a fleet Less than 1/3rd the Size of the Imperiums, compleltly stomped them..
EDIT: Just re-read it, the Necron Fleet was actually less than 1/4th the Size of the Imperial fleet.
I mean Tyranids are the definition of mindless killers, Necrons have some sort of society, but all they think about is "kill the rest of the galaxy." Chaos Daemons have virtually one idea of society, "make our masters proud."
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am not calling Necrons weak I am just saying that they are not as "mighty" as the Tyranids or Chaos Daemons.
Grey Knight Dillon wrote: Yea, looking into it the Necrons really aren't quite as big of a threat as Tyranids or Chaos Daemons. Although, Daemons are more of a threat than the Tyranids.
The Necrons are so far beyond Chaos as a threat, it's not even funny. Necrons are a threat to every single living organism in the galaxy. Chaos is a threat through its subterfuge, and its ability to poison minds and turn billions into cultists and such. Necrons can simply wipe out billions with their tech. And that's just one dynasty.
The IoM has fought on Cadia and is constantly losing the battle. Chaos gnaws at them constantly, psykers heads explode, etc. The Necrons took the fight to the Old Ones and all their warp powered creations and beat them like red headed step children, then destroyed and imprisoned their Gods (that for all intents and purposes have been shown to be far more of a brutal impact on the galaxy than the Chaos Gods).
The only reason there even exists a comparison is that there are only a few dynasties up and about. As soon as more wake up, things will turn...interesting.
PS: That doesn't even include the Celestial Orrery, cause that's just insane in and of itself.
Grey Knight Dillon wrote: I mean Tyranids are the definition of mindless killers, Necrons have some sort of society, but all they think about is "kill the rest of the galaxy." Chaos Daemons have virtually one idea of society, "make our masters proud."
That doesn't make Daemons more dangerous. Daemons have serious limitations upon being in the material universe. The Tyranids do not suffer these limitations.
I am not calling Necrons weak I am just saying that they are not as "mighty" as the Tyranids or Chaos Daemons.
Grey Knight Dillon wrote: Yeah, a minor threat. That's why they conquered over 60 planets in less than 100 days, wiped out an entire sector, and took on one of the largest imperial fleets ever assembled, with 1/3rd the amount of ships, and absolutely slaughtered them. From one Dynasty. - That is a minor threat. Tyranids ravaged alot more than that. Chaos Daemons ravaged even more.
Examples of Tyranids or Chaos Daemons destroying more than 60 inhabited, defended planets (including stronghold planets) in less than 100 days please.
kinratha wrote: On the TT my DKoK don't have a problem with them. and Fluff wise I agree with Beaviz81, they are a minor threat compared to Chaos or Nids.
Yeah, a minor threat. That's why they conquered over 60 planets in less than 100 days, wiped out an entire sector, and took on one of the largest imperial fleets ever assembled, with 1/3rd the amount of ships, and absolutely slaughtered them. From one Dynasty.
Minor threat, of course.
Well same could be said for any race, Orks conquer alot same with tyranids and Chaos. It just comes down to what race you like more and what ones you don't.
It wasn't just "Conquer alot" It was the speed, and efficiency in what they conquered, and the fact that their Naval power so far outstrips that of the Imperium, that a fleet Less than 1/3rd the Size of the Imperiums, compleltly stomped them..
And I agree, but Just like and IA fluff (I like IA) any race featured in it has this amazing track record with it.
Grey Knight Dillon wrote: I mean Tyranids are the definition of mindless killers, Necrons have some sort of society, but all they think about is "kill the rest of the galaxy." Chaos Daemons have virtually one idea of society, "make our masters proud."
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am not calling Necrons weak I am just saying that they are not as "mighty" as the Tyranids or Chaos Daemons.
The Nid's who had a massive invasion at Macragge, the Nids were defeated by a much smaller IoM fleet, and a smaller Smurf force, are less of a threat of one dynasty who butchered a fleet over 4 times their size and a Chapter Fortress World.
Grey Knight Dillon wrote: Yeah, a minor threat. That's why they conquered over 60 planets in less than 100 days, wiped out an entire sector, and took on one of the largest imperial fleets ever assembled, with 1/3rd the amount of ships, and absolutely slaughtered them. From one Dynasty. - That is a minor threat. Tyranids ravaged alot more than that. Chaos Daemons ravaged even more.
Cite some sources for your claims please.
Hive Fleet Behemoth, was defeated on a Single Chapters fortress Monestary. The Necrons wiped out an entire space marine chapter, before they could even raise an alarm
Daemons are regularly defeated, and have severe limiations manifesting in the material world. Show me a single example where a daemonic incursion conquered 60 planets, in less than 100 days.
Grey Knight Dillon wrote: Mavlun, you are undermining the Chaos and overmining the Necrons. One greater Daemon, annihilated entire sectors of space.
Still waiting on those examples
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kinratha wrote: On the TT my DKoK don't have a problem with them. and Fluff wise I agree with Beaviz81, they are a minor threat compared to Chaos or Nids.
Since their 5th edition Codex, the necrons are the single most powerful faction in TT . If your DKoK army is beating them, there's either a severe gap in player skill, or some incredibly one-sided house rules or something.
Grey Knight Dillon wrote: Yeah, a minor threat. That's why they conquered over 60 planets in less than 100 days, wiped out an entire sector, and took on one of the largest imperial fleets ever assembled, with 1/3rd the amount of ships, and absolutely slaughtered them. From one Dynasty. - That is a minor threat. Tyranids ravaged alot more than that. Chaos Daemons ravaged even more.
Examples of Tyranids or Chaos Daemons destroying more than 60 inhabited, defended planets (including stronghold planets) in less than 100 days please.
I'm gonna have to agree. Codex's say that it, on average, takes a Tyranid Hive Fleet 100 days to fully devour a planet. I don't recall the exact timeframe, but it tends to take Daemons a pretty long time to convert a planet to a Daemon world. I don't think there's any precedence (that I know of) of Daemons or Tyranids doing that much damage to Imperial space in the course of 100 days.
Grey Knight Dillon wrote: It is not necessarily the speed, but the efficiency. Start a cult that none knows about and then suddenly threaten galaxies with a little cult.
The entire 40k game takes place in one single galaxy, so that bit of hyperbole is kind of out the window right there
Grey Knight Dillon wrote: It is not necessarily the speed, but the efficiency. Start a cult that none knows about and then suddenly threaten galaxies with a little cult.
Logic. This post has none.
60 planets in 100 days is pretty fething efficient.
Grimskul wrote: Oh sweet lord, not this again. To deny the threat the Necrons have is madness especially with the added context of their abilities in IA12. Their technology is beyond even the Eldar at their peak and ultimately were able to even defeat both the Old Ones and the C'tan. Even if they're not unified the fact that more and more Tomb Worlds are activating and the ones that have already are making expanding and retaking territory at a frightening speed shows the high level of threat they are. If even a voracious foe like the Tyranids are wary of facing them it shows how much of a force they are to be dealt with, not to mention the fact that they are one of the forces that Chaos will have trouble dealing with considering they were the ones that erected highly effective anti-warp technology like the Pylons on Cadia.
Ah we just see things in ways too different to comprehend. That explains why our arguments ain't accepted by eachother. I go for the more earthbound approach, while you are up there going for the high and mighty-approach. That's explains a lot about your stance for me.
Grey Knight Dillon wrote: Thank the Grey Knights for beating the Chaos Daemonns for you. Otherwise, who knows the entire galaxy would be a warp hole.
Besides, they wouldn't even WANT that to happen. Without sentient beings, the Warp would revert to the calm before the War in Heaven for all we know, and the Chaos Gods would cease to exist.
Grimskul wrote: Oh sweet lord, not this again. To deny the threat the Necrons have is madness especially with the added context of their abilities in IA12. Their technology is beyond even the Eldar at their peak and ultimately were able to even defeat both the Old Ones and the C'tan. Even if they're not unified the fact that more and more Tomb Worlds are activating and the ones that have already are making expanding and retaking territory at a frightening speed shows the high level of threat they are. If even a voracious foe like the Tyranids are wary of facing them it shows how much of a force they are to be dealt with, not to mention the fact that they are one of the forces that Chaos will have trouble dealing with considering they were the ones that erected highly effective anti-warp technology like the Pylons on Cadia.
Ah we just see things in ways too different to comprehend. That explains why our arguments ain't accepted by eachother. I go for the more earthbound approach, while you are up there going for the high and mighty-approach. That's explains a lot about your stance for me.
His post was perfectly thought out, and well explained with cited examples.
You, however, post your opinion, and disagree even when presented with cited sources showing you in error.
Again, it comes down to POV. I still rather have the 3rd E Cons over the 5th E. And watch when A new nids comes out, it will have some overboard fluff to.
kinratha wrote: Again, it comes down to POV. I still rather have the 3rd E Cons over the 5th E. And watch when A new nids comes out, it will have some overboard fluff to.
Quite possibly, and Gork knows it's needed. Since they're so terribad in TT, and 6th ed. has done nothing but nerf them, they really need a boost in fluff as well as rules.
Grimskul wrote: Oh sweet lord, not this again. To deny the threat the Necrons have is madness especially with the added context of their abilities in IA12. Their technology is beyond even the Eldar at their peak and ultimately were able to even defeat both the Old Ones and the C'tan. Even if they're not unified the fact that more and more Tomb Worlds are activating and the ones that have already are making expanding and retaking territory at a frightening speed shows the high level of threat they are. If even a voracious foe like the Tyranids are wary of facing them it shows how much of a force they are to be dealt with, not to mention the fact that they are one of the forces that Chaos will have trouble dealing with considering they were the ones that erected highly effective anti-warp technology like the Pylons on Cadia.
Ah we just see things in ways too different to comprehend. That explains why our arguments ain't accepted by eachother. I go for the more earthbound approach, while you are up there going for the high and mighty-approach. That's explains a lot about your stance for me.
His post was perfectly thought out, and well explained with cited examples.
You, however, post your opinion, and disagree even when presented with cited sources showing you in error.
Grimskul wrote: Oh sweet lord, not this again. To deny the threat the Necrons have is madness especially with the added context of their abilities in IA12. Their technology is beyond even the Eldar at their peak and ultimately were able to even defeat both the Old Ones and the C'tan. Even if they're not unified the fact that more and more Tomb Worlds are activating and the ones that have already are making expanding and retaking territory at a frightening speed shows the high level of threat they are. If even a voracious foe like the Tyranids are wary of facing them it shows how much of a force they are to be dealt with, not to mention the fact that they are one of the forces that Chaos will have trouble dealing with considering they were the ones that erected highly effective anti-warp technology like the Pylons on Cadia.
Ah we just see things in ways too different to comprehend. That explains why our arguments ain't accepted by eachother. I go for the more earthbound approach, while you are up there going for the high and mighty-approach. That's explains a lot about your stance for me.
His post was perfectly thought out, and well explained with cited examples.
You, however, post your opinion, and disagree even when presented with cited sources showing you in error.
Yeah that's the past, how about the present?
He has both the past, and the present presented in his post. I've also discussed the present in my example of the 60 worlds conquered, which no one has been able to show a similar feat, by these "More Dangerous" factions.
Ehm 60 worlds conquered is a footnote (seriously). And individually few except a Space Marine can take out a Necron. I will give you that. I don't what this fanaticism is coming from. I'm a fairly laid-back dude and suddenly I'm assaulted on all fronts by lovers of the Crons who for uncertain reasons wanna over-power them.
Beaviz81 wrote: Ehm 60 worlds conquered is a footnote (seriously). And individually few except a Space Marine can take out a Necron. I will give you that. I don't what this fanaticism is coming from. I'm a fairly laid-back dude and suddenly I'm assaulted on all fronts by lovers of the Crons who for uncertain reasons wanna over-power them.
You keep changing it. Let me spell it out for you. Show me a faction that has conqured 60 fortified worlds, including a a fortress world of a Space Marine chapter, in less than 100 days. That is NOT a footnote.
You're not listing to reason to facts, and have not backed up any of your claims at all. We are simply asking for you to back up your claims, which you have not. We are not overpowering the, we have sources for everything we have posted, it's all been fact.
Hm that argument was oddly compelling. At least that was presented to me in a way I bother to listen to. Please at least give me an easy search-pattern at Google to back it up.
Beaviz81 wrote: Hm that argument was oddly compelling. At least that was presented to me in a way I bother to listen to. Please at least give me an easy search-pattern at Google to back it up.
Thanks for backing me up there, I know what you're going through since I had a recent similar talk to him back at the Space Wolf hate thread. Sad as it is your evidence will likely be refuted as false or worse "irrelevant" by him. Unfortunately he is blinded by his own refusal to accept legitimate forms of information/proof from GW sources as well as arguments.
On a side note, I haven't been able to actually acquire IA12 myself so far, having only been able to glance through it from one of my friends at my FLGS. If you don't mind me asking, how did the Necrons manage to overwhelm all those worlds in such a short time frame? I never managed to read all the details in the book and I would assume they utilized some form of Cryptek invention/technomancy to help soften up a lot of the planets before they tore through their defenses. Also did they just cleanse the planet of life? Sorry if this is too much to ask for but from what you said earlier of the Necrons it really piqued my interest to see a FW viewpoint of the newer idea of Necrons.
I would argue Necrons are the biggest threat to non-imperials. They are militarily powerful, particularly in space, making them a perfect foil for Eldar and Tyranids. The fact they are indigestible to the nids too is also worth noting. They are also powerful foes on the ground, organized and relentless, making them a big foil to orks and Tau in most instances. They are a natural antithesis of Chaos that goes without saying.
For the imperials, numbers fall in to play (theoretically in fairness that would apply for orks too), in space they win on the ground give or take I would say. The important bit though, is that the Necrons in their new incarnation seem to be somewhat civilized and in certain circumstances, alliances seem possible. Tau and Imperials I think have a chance to co-exist with them relatively in the interim.
My totally subjective prediction would be that the Necrons would spend most of their time and energy on the nids and chaos, and the other races would let them, hoping to be able to tackle the winner of a long war of attrition on more manageable terms. If anything, I think the Necrons could be a balancing force in terms of Galactic power, blunting the biggest threats of nids and chaos while giving the imperials and tau a bit of breathing room.
60 worlds in 100 says is a frighteningly fast advance not even the SM legion of the great crusade could have pulled off.
On Chaos ,the biggest number of worlds I can recall them taking at once where the sabbit worlds and I do not think that was anywhere near 60. And it was a long term thing that did not happen over night.
Thanks for backing me up there, I know what you're going through since I had a recent similar talk to him back at the Space Wolf hate thread. Sad as it is your evidence will likely be refuted as false or worse "irrelevant" by him. Unfortunately he is blinded by his own refusal to accept legitimate forms of information/proof from GW sources as well as arguments.
On a side note, I haven't been able to actually acquire IA12 myself so far, having only been able to glance through it from one of my friends at my FLGS. If you don't mind me asking, how did the Necrons manage to overwhelm all those worlds in such a short time frame? I never managed to read all the details in the book and I would assume they utilized some form of Cryptek invention/technomancy to help soften up a lot of the planets before they tore through their defenses. Also did they just cleanse the planet of life? Sorry if this is too much to ask for but from what you said earlier of the Necrons it really piqued my interest to see a FW viewpoint of the newer idea of Necrons.
Hey, not a problem, I'll be glad to let you know.
As for how they conquered the first 60 planets, it was just brutal, all out lightning strikes, over scores of worlds at time. It wasn't a planet at time, but several scores. It was also plain extermination. No one was prepared for the Necrons assault, and it was implied that they had done their research ahead of time, It's just implied that their superior technology and lighting fast assaults simply overwhelmed that half of the sector.It also appears that they induced the planet that housed the Space Marine chapter, to erupt from the core, turning it into a molten wasteland. They also were able to drop a "Veil of Darkness" over half the sector, that functions similar to shadow of the warp, by disrupting communications, as well as seemingly "Swallowing" up anything passed into it. However, that may be up to interpretation if something was just destroyed by Necrons after it passed the Veil, or if the Veil itself was eliminating the ships.
For the imperials, numbers fall in to play (theoretically in fairness that would apply for orks too), in space they win on the ground give or take I would say. The important bit though, is that the Necrons in their new incarnation seem to be somewhat civilized and in certain circumstances, alliances seem possible. Tau and Imperials I think have a chance to co-exist with them relatively in the interim.
Hey Major,
According to this, the Imperial Armada that the Necrons fought, had several hundred escort vessels, over 60 rated cruisers and capital vessels, including seven primus-grade battleships, four battle barges, and an Apocalypse ship. This entire fleet was pretty much obliterated with ease, by a Necron fleet less than 1/4th of it's size. If anything, this seems to indicate to me that Necrons far outclass Imperials in space. This was also only a single dynasty's fleet.
As for how they conquered the first 60 planets, it was just brutal, all out lightning strikes, over scores of worlds at time. It wasn't a planet at time, but several scores. It was also plain extermination. No one was prepared for the Necrons assault, and it was implied that they had done their research ahead of time, It's just implied that their superior technology and lighting fast assaults simply overwhelmed that half of the sector.It also appears that they induced the planet that housed the Space Marine chapter, to erupt from the core, turning it into a molten wasteland. They also were able to drop a "Veil of Darkness" over half the sector, that functions similar to shadow of the warp, by disrupting communications, as well as seemingly "Swallowing" up anything passed into it. However, that may be up to interpretation if something was just destroyed by Necrons after it passed the Veil, or if the Veil itself was eliminating the ships.
O.O Daaaaaaaaammmn! That is definitely one badass, appropriately cold and ruthless way to go about it. Really adds a nice sense of doom that isn't vague or "Wardified" because now not only are we given an actual number-based (practically flawless) victory but it shows the depth of their technological and military prowess. I really like their "sans fuss" method of simply blowing the SM monastery from the inside out; it gives a sense of a competent but incredibly hostile impending alien force that will outright wipe out opposition without the frills of half-baked long-winded Black Crusades and intercine Eldar/cultist plots or subversive Tau diplomacy. Thanks a bunch for the info! Looks like FW has really made a great addition to the new Necron fluff.
As for how they conquered the first 60 planets, it was just brutal, all out lightning strikes, over scores of worlds at time. It wasn't a planet at time, but several scores. It was also plain extermination. No one was prepared for the Necrons assault, and it was implied that they had done their research ahead of time, It's just implied that their superior technology and lighting fast assaults simply overwhelmed that half of the sector.It also appears that they induced the planet that housed the Space Marine chapter, to erupt from the core, turning it into a molten wasteland. They also were able to drop a "Veil of Darkness" over half the sector, that functions similar to shadow of the warp, by disrupting communications, as well as seemingly "Swallowing" up anything passed into it. However, that may be up to interpretation if something was just destroyed by Necrons after it passed the Veil, or if the Veil itself was eliminating the ships.
O.O Daaaaaaaaammmn! That is definitely one badass, appropriately cold and ruthless way to go about it. Really adds a nice sense of doom that isn't vague or "Wardified" because now not only are we given an actual number-based (practically flawless) victory but it shows the depth of their technological and military prowess. I really like their "sans fuss" method of simply blowing the SM monastery from the inside out; it gives a sense of a competent but incredibly hostile impending alien force that will outright wipe out opposition without the frills of half-baked long-winded Black Crusades and intercine Eldar/cultist plots or subversive Tau diplomacy. Thanks a bunch for the info! Looks like FW has really made a great addition to the new Necron fluff.
Yeah, hearing all this fluff that sounds like it's actually competent and a nice dose of Oldcrony goodness really making it hard on whether to get a Sentry pylon first or the book.
Necrons dangerous? Why yes. Yes they are very dangerous! I'd personally put them in the top 3 in terms of their possible damage to the Imperium of Mankind (Nids, Chaos, Necrons). Whilst orks certainly have the numbers, they are far too fragmentation to really be able to pierce into the Imperium of Mankind. Chaos has subterfuge, deceit, the slow creeping sensation, and finally literally having single individuals that can rend reality and destroy planets, Nids have hive fleets constantly swarming in and evolve rapidly, and Necrons have the greatest technology in the galaxy. Each one represents a threat in their own way... (thank goodness two of them are so fractured!)
As for how they conquered the first 60 planets, it was just brutal, all out lightning strikes, over scores of worlds at time. It wasn't a planet at time, but several scores. It was also plain extermination. No one was prepared for the Necrons assault, and it was implied that they had done their research ahead of time, It's just implied that their superior technology and lighting fast assaults simply overwhelmed that half of the sector.It also appears that they induced the planet that housed the Space Marine chapter, to erupt from the core, turning it into a molten wasteland. They also were able to drop a "Veil of Darkness" over half the sector, that functions similar to shadow of the warp, by disrupting communications, as well as seemingly "Swallowing" up anything passed into it. However, that may be up to interpretation if something was just destroyed by Necrons after it passed the Veil, or if the Veil itself was eliminating the ships.
O.O Daaaaaaaaammmn! That is definitely one badass, appropriately cold and ruthless way to go about it. Really adds a nice sense of doom that isn't vague or "Wardified" because now not only are we given an actual number-based (practically flawless) victory but it shows the depth of their technological and military prowess. I really like their "sans fuss" method of simply blowing the SM monastery from the inside out; it gives a sense of a competent but incredibly hostile impending alien force that will outright wipe out opposition without the frills of half-baked long-winded Black Crusades and intercine Eldar/cultist plots or subversive Tau diplomacy. Thanks a bunch for the info! Looks like FW has really made a great addition to the new Necron fluff.
Yeah, the fluff is really top-notch.
A funny tidbit, is that the Sector governor, was having "Nightmares" about being summoned to a Court of the Necrons, and being forced to eat at a table, with flayed ones, and Necron Lords. One of the Inquisitors thought this was "Daemons" tainting his mind. It turns out though, that the Necrons were "Kidnapping" him (Out of the capital, without any sort of detection) and treating him as the leader of their opposition. Apparently it was so nightmarish, that his subconsciousness blocked it out, to appear as nightmares. They flat out told him, they were going to just destroy them.
Yeah, hearing all this fluff that sounds like it's actually competent and a nice dose of Oldcrony goodness really making it hard on whether to get a Sentry pylon first or the book.
MajorTom11 wrote: Not bad, I had head mostly bad things surrounding the book itself, but this seems pretty cool!
If you have any questions Tom, I'd be glad to answer them. I really feel the book is top notch, and it's the most well done of the IA books I have, IMO.
Haha! Nice! Humour AND grimdark? I feel sad that the codices that GW pumps out doesn't have this level of depth and work into them. Darn you and your storytelling! Now I gotta fish out some dough to get this work of 40K art!
Sautekh_The_Silent_King wrote: Everyone who plays 40K knows about Necrons. Who thinks they pose a threat in the 40K universe, and if not, why? I just want to know.
The emergence of the Necrons and the arrival of the Tyranids are the two primary reasons why the current time period of the meta plot is called the "time of ending." They, along with Chaos and the Tyranids, are the greatest threats to the Imperium.
Oh god, please not an other "my faction is better than yours" thread...
As to the OP's question, no, nothing can beat SM plot armor, the IoM ultimately has nothing to fear as long as they're around. everyone should know that by now.
In terms of an actual threat, the Necrons - if inclined to one day - could destroy the galaxy with a swipe of their hand through the celestial orrery. They have the ability to destroy everything in one go if they felt like it.
To say they aren't a threat implies you don't know much about their lore . . .
edit - I bet the next massive Tyranid invasion that gets close to Terra/severely threatens the galaxy gets stopped by the Necrons detonating key star systems using the orrery. It's only a matter of time before GW employs the orrery, especially with Ward writing super stories about characters who knock bears out with one punch and run twenty marathons but aren't even tired then eat 4 buffets and asks for more etc etc.
PrehistoricUFO wrote: the Necrons - if inclined to one day - could destroy the galaxy with a swipe of their hand through the celestial orrery. They have the ability to destroy everything in one go if they felt like it.
Yeah they could the passage about it implied that it would damage them as well. Suicide isn't what they want, and neither is exterminating all living things (for most of them, anyway). While it is possible, there are too many reasons for them not to do so to actually act on it. One could also point out that we don't actually know how it works - it is possible that given time a way to counter its effects may be discovered.
edit - I bet the next massive Tyranid invasion that gets close to Terra/severely threatens the galaxy gets stopped by the Necrons detonating key star systems using the orrery. It's only a matter of time before GW employs the orrery,
I disagree with this. I suspect that the Orrery won't get used, and besides that, it's never said how quickly the stars actually go supernova, merely that they will millenia before their time. Certainly it would be difficult to use it as a weapon against mobile targets. It almost certainly wouldn't be necessary anyway. The Imperium could just start detonating Warp drives again, which is apparently the single best weapon against enormous fleets. One wonders why it isn't done more often.
Beaviz81 wrote: Ehm 60 worlds conquered is a footnote (seriously). And individually few except a Space Marine can take out a Necron. I will give you that. I don't what this fanaticism is coming from. I'm a fairly laid-back dude and suddenly I'm assaulted on all fronts by lovers of the Crons who for uncertain reasons wanna over-power them.
You keep changing it. Let me spell it out for you. Show me a faction that has conqured 60 fortified worlds, including a a fortress world of a Space Marine chapter, in less than 100 days. That is NOT a footnote.
You're not listing to reason to facts, and have not backed up any of your claims at all. We are simply asking for you to back up your claims, which you have not. We are not overpowering the, we have sources for everything we have posted, it's all been fact.
Here is an example that seems to be forgotten...Chaos. How many Eldar worlds fell to Slaanesh in an instant and how many other Eldar/Humans died galaxy wide when Slaanesh was born? By THAT definition, Chaos is worse.
However I do NOT think Chaos is worse, and the reason is that Chaos requires a status quo whereas Necrons and Tyranids do not.
But that doesn't make Necrons nor Tyranids the biggest threat either...because nobody really works with them anymore because of the threat they can pose with their ideas.
So to sum up, I feel there is no greater threat...there will ALWAYS be a status quo due to the lesser threats working out deals. The only way for this to NOT be so is if the Tyranids Hive Fleets are much larger than we currently see now and wipe out every living organism in space and then only have the Necrons to deal with...I don't think the Necrons would win that battle...but I admit it would be a good fight.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Quick addition.
I must admit I am a little frustrated that IA12 was written in such a way as to make the Necrons look godly but IA11 was done in such a way that the Eldar have no advantage except in taking small victories when the lose.
Most of the writing in that book was good, however the description of how the Eldar tech doesn't work against seasoned Imperial war machines was just rubbish.
They have a set of Christmas lights that can exterminate the suns of entire galaxies, Id say that's fairly dangerous. hell if a lord fell on it he could accidentally supernova a whole sector....
MarsNZ wrote: Was there a group of fanboys more rabid than SW ones? Apparently Necrons.
It's not necessarily fanboying, it's more reiterating and emphasizing the legitimate amount of threat that they as a faction bring. Especially in the context of recent additional fluff and the capabilities, it would be ignorant not to realize the amount of damage they can bring upon the 40K universe considering how badly jacked up the universe was after the Necrons "won" the War in Heaven. Tyranids and Chaos are still up there when it comes to high level threats to the universe as a whole, it's just that in the case of a topic thread like this there's a lot of evidence to suggest that Necrons are incredibly dangerous in their own way. If anything it seems like the fanboys are really the ones who deny that they are dangerous and think that despite the amount of proof brought to the table that they still are a low-level tier threat despite everything to the contrary.
I just think it's rather funny that people get so worked up that their favourite faction's handwavium is being questioned. Necrons have a device that can destroy star systems at will, why bother making ships and going to sleep for millions of years? Ever since I got that free WD Necron back in 98? 99? (I forget) I've thought the race and especially the surrounding fluff was stupid.
MarsNZ wrote: I just think it's rather funny that people get so worked up that their favourite faction's handwavium is being questioned. Necrons have a device that can destroy star systems at will, why bother making ships and going to sleep for millions of years? Ever since I got that free WD Necron back in 98? 99? (I forget) I've thought the race and especially the surrounding fluff was stupid.
They are by far for one of the most poorly conceived factions out there IMHO. They're the Mary Sues of the Xenos at this moment.
We used to rule the galaxy, just like the Eldar, only better.
We have really advanced tech, just like Eldar, only better.
We're really numerous, just like the Orks, only better.
We have really smart and powerful commanders, just like the Ultra Marines, only better.
We have really powerful Gods, just like Chaos, only better.
Only we don't serve them, they serve us.
Our space ships are really fast and devastating, just like the Eldar's/Space Wolfs', only better.
We have lots of honor, just like the Space Wolfs, only better.
We're really scary and cruel, just like the Dark Eldar, only better.
We're a threat to the galaxy, just like the Tyranids, only better.
We have Blackstone Fortresses, just like Chaos/Eldar, only better.
We could very easily beat all of you but we just don't wanna ATM.
Did I miss any?
They really sound like something an 8 year old would cook up for his own fanfic, they have no flaws and out perform everyone at everything. Buy hey, if some people like that kind of gak, good for them. Just don't expect me to take their fluff any more serious than LCB.
MarsNZ wrote: I just think it's rather funny that people get so worked up that their favourite faction's handwavium is being questioned. Necrons have a device that can destroy star systems at will, why bother making ships and going to sleep for millions of years? Ever since I got that free WD Necron back in 98? 99? (I forget) I've thought the race and especially the surrounding fluff was stupid.
They are by far for one of the most poorly conceived factions out there IMHO. They're the Mary Sues of the Xenos at this moment.
We used to rule the galaxy, just like the Eldar, only better.
We have really advanced tech, just like Eldar, only better.
We're really numerous, just like the Orks, only better.
We have really smart and powerful commanders, just like the Ultra Marines, only better.
We have really powerful Gods, just like Chaos, only better.
Only we don't serve them, they serve us.
Our space ships are really fast and devastating, just like the Eldar's/Space Wolfs', only better.
We have lots of honor, just like the Space Wolfs, only better.
We're really scary and cruel, just like the Dark Eldar, only better.
We're a threat to the galaxy, just like the Tyranids, only better.
We have Blackstone Fortresses, just like Chaos/Eldar, only better.
We could very easily beat all of you but we just don't wanna ATM.
Did I miss any?
They really sound like something an 8 year old would cook up for his own fanfic, they have no flaws and out perform everyone at everything. Buy hey, if some people like that kind of gak, good for them. Just don't expect me to take their fluff any more serious than LCB.
hahaha, this made me laugh, they are by far the most uninteresting army/faction for this very reason. well said!
MarsNZ wrote: I just think it's rather funny that people get so worked up that their favourite faction's handwavium is being questioned. Necrons have a device that can destroy star systems at will, why bother making ships and going to sleep for millions of years? Ever since I got that free WD Necron back in 98? 99? (I forget) I've thought the race and especially the surrounding fluff was stupid.
They are by far for one of the most poorly conceived factions out there IMHO. They're the Mary Sues of the Xenos at this moment.
We used to rule the galaxy, just like the Eldar, only better.
We have really advanced tech, just like Eldar, only better.
We're really numerous, just like the Orks, only better.
We have really smart and powerful commanders, just like the Ultra Marines, only better.
We have really powerful Gods, just like Chaos, only better.
Only we don't serve them, they serve us.
Our space ships are really fast and devastating, just like the Eldar's/Space Wolfs', only better.
We have lots of honor, just like the Space Wolfs, only better.
We're really scary and cruel, just like the Dark Eldar, only better.
We're a threat to the galaxy, just like the Tyranids, only better.
We have Blackstone Fortresses, just like Chaos/Eldar, only better.
We could very easily beat all of you but we just don't wanna ATM.
Did I miss any?
They really sound like something an 8 year old would cook up for his own fanfic, they have no flaws and out perform everyone at everything. Buy hey, if some people like that kind of gak, good for them. Just don't expect me to take their fluff any more serious than LCB.
Never saw it that way. That is very accurate actually. Poor fluff indeed.
Sautekh_The_Silent_King wrote: Everyone who plays 40K knows about Necrons. Who thinks they pose a threat in the 40K universe, and if not, why? I just want to know.
No, the Necrons aren't really dangerous.
The Necrons are a race of highly misunderstood people, who were assaulted by a race much larger and more powerful than themselves, and the experience messed them up quite badly. All they want to do is rebuild their home, and be friends with everyone. They want to help make all races immortal and turn themselves into hyper-intelligent immortal fluffy animals.
They would have achieved this if it were not for the evil humans bullying them until they have no choice but to defend themselves with the power of friendship and love.
/endsarcasm
Oh, god.... I couldn't write much more of that bs.... It was actually giving me chest pains just imagining it...
I shall apologize with something more satisfying:
The ground trembled as the undying horde marched towards the human gunline, taking fire that should have destroyed even the mightiest of armies. The Necrons marched forward, repairing all damage they sustained, whilst tearing apart humans and vehicles alike with their unstoppable gauss weaponry.
MarsNZ wrote: I just think it's rather funny that people get so worked up that their favourite faction's handwavium is being questioned. Necrons have a device that can destroy star systems at will, why bother making ships and going to sleep for millions of years? Ever since I got that free WD Necron back in 98? 99? (I forget) I've thought the race and especially the surrounding fluff was stupid.
They are by far for one of the most poorly conceived factions out there IMHO. They're the Mary Sues of the Xenos at this moment.
We used to rule the galaxy, just like the Eldar, only better.
We have really advanced tech, just like Eldar, only better.
We're really numerous, just like the Orks, only better.
We have really smart and powerful commanders, just like the Ultra Marines, only better.
We have really powerful Gods, just like Chaos, only better.
Only we don't serve them, they serve us.
Our space ships are really fast and devastating, just like the Eldar's/Space Wolfs', only better.
We have lots of honor, just like the Space Wolfs, only better.
We're really scary and cruel, just like the Dark Eldar, only better.
We're a threat to the galaxy, just like the Tyranids, only better.
We have Blackstone Fortresses, just like Chaos/Eldar, only better.
We could very easily beat all of you but we just don't wanna ATM.
Did I miss any?
They really sound like something an 8 year old would cook up for his own fanfic, they have no flaws and out perform everyone at everything. Buy hey, if some people like that kind of gak, good for them. Just don't expect me to take their fluff any more serious than LCB.
I liked it when they were just a horde of soul-sucking killing machines who hate all life...
If you don't like the faction, that's fine, but please create a more suitable topic for it. This thread is for if the Necrons are Dangerous or not, not weather you like they are poorly conceived or not.
Sasori wrote: If you don't like the faction, that's fine, but please create a more suitable topic for it. This thread is for if the Necrons are Dangerous or not, not weather you like they are poorly conceived or not.
I don't want to create a threat solely to piss people off. I don't like ruining other people's enjoyment of the game regardless of whether I like/dislike certain aspects of it (unlike some fans who won't be happy unless their favorite faction has canonically humiliated everyone's else's).
Horribad fluff was mentioned, I figured I'd have my say on it and leave it at that.
Popenfresh wrote: Did I miss any?
I did miss one:
We have massive trolls, just like the Dark Eldar, only better.
AKA: CARMEN TRAZYNDIEGO!!!1!
Sasori wrote: If you don't like the faction, that's fine, but please create a more suitable topic for it. This thread is for if the Necrons are Dangerous or not, not weather you like they are poorly conceived or not.
I don't want to create a threat solely to piss people off. I don't like ruining other people's enjoyment of the game regardless of whether I like/dislike certain aspects of it (unlike some fans who won't be happy unless their favorite faction has canonically humiliated everyone's else's).
Horribad fluff was mentioned, I figured I'd have my say on it and leave it at that.
Popenfresh wrote: Did I miss any?
I did miss one:
We have massive trolls, just like the Dark Eldar, only better.
AKA: CARMEN TRAZYNDIEGO!!!1!
Spoiler:
Well, next time please leave your off-topic posts to yourself, instead of causing an entire thread to degenerate.
Necrons are immortal, indestructible (individuals are, you can still destroy the tomb worlds), fearless machines built for one purpose: kill stuff. They are backed up my actual gods of immense power, one even might enough that even entire Tyranid fleets fear coming close to him.
...and on top of that, their Gods, or rather one of them, is directly involved in the Empire itself, most likely corrupting them for his own purpose.
They are like Tyranids. Just deadlier. A Necron <-> Tyranid alliance would be the end of the entire galaxy. They are very similar and have (ultimatively) the same goal, be it for revenge (Necrons) or hunger (Tyranids): the reaping of all life in the galaxy.
Sasori wrote: Well, next time please leave your off-topic posts to yourself, instead of causing an entire thread to degenerate.
Hardly derailing or degenerating a threat. I offered my opinion to something that was mentioned in the threat, no more, no less. No changing the subject.
Calling someone a troll, delusional or ignorant (as plenty of people have already done in this very threat) is far more damaging to a discussion than offering a personal opinion to something that was mentioned in said threat. Yet I didn't see you frown at any of those posters.
You could even say I added to the discussion by giving you a list of things that makes the necrons sooooo dangerous.
I can't help but wonder if you would have also called me out if I had said how awesome I think necrons are...? Basically same thing, no?
Sasori wrote: Well, next time please leave your off-topic posts to yourself, instead of causing an entire thread to degenerate.
Hardly derailing or degenerating a threat. I offered my opinion to something that was mentioned in the threat, no more, no less. No changing the subject.
Calling someone a troll, delusional or ignorant (as plenty of people have already done in this very threat) is far more damaging to a discussion than offering a personal opinion to something that was mentioned in said threat. Yet I didn't see you frown at any of those posters.
You could even say I added to the discussion by giving you a list of things that makes the necrons sooooo dangerous.
I can't help but wonder if you would have also called me out if I had said how awesome I think necrons are...? Basically same thing, no?
Those posts were also properly dealt with, with the yellow triangle.
I"m going to ask you one more time, to quit dragging this off topic.
Sasori wrote: Well, next time please leave your off-topic posts to yourself, instead of causing an entire thread to degenerate.
Hardly derailing or degenerating a threat. I offered my opinion to something that was mentioned in the threat, no more, no less. No changing the subject.
Calling someone a troll, delusional or ignorant (as plenty of people have already done in this very threat) is far more damaging to a discussion than offering a personal opinion to something that was mentioned in said threat. Yet I didn't see you frown at any of those posters.
You could even say I added to the discussion by giving you a list of things that makes the necrons sooooo dangerous.
I can't help but wonder if you would have also called me out if I had said how awesome I think necrons are...? Basically same thing, no?
Those posts were also properly dealt with, with the yellow triangle.
I"m going to ask you one more time, to quit dragging this off topic.
By responding surely you're 'dragging this off topic'. Your mannerisms with people have been quite brusque in this thread so I can see his point.
A question related to the topic, what space marine chapter world they knock out? Always interesting when the emperors finest are laid low.
Sure they are a threat. But I think they were a much more dire threat when the C'tan ruled them.
Because the C'tan were much more powerful then than they are now, since the fluff was rewritten.
In the new book the Necrons in general seem like a shadow of their former selves. Making alliances and negotiating instead of just mercilessly destroying any form of life they encounter.
Sasori wrote: Well, next time please leave your off-topic posts to yourself, instead of causing an entire thread to degenerate.
Hardly derailing or degenerating a threat. I offered my opinion to something that was mentioned in the threat, no more, no less. No changing the subject.
Calling someone a troll, delusional or ignorant (as plenty of people have already done in this very threat) is far more damaging to a discussion than offering a personal opinion to something that was mentioned in said threat. Yet I didn't see you frown at any of those posters.
You could even say I added to the discussion by giving you a list of things that makes the necrons sooooo dangerous.
I can't help but wonder if you would have also called me out if I had said how awesome I think necrons are...? Basically same thing, no?
Those posts were also properly dealt with, with the yellow triangle.
I"m going to ask you one more time, to quit dragging this off topic.
By responding surely you're 'dragging this off topic'. Your mannerisms with people have been quite brusque in this thread so I can see his point.
A question related to the topic, what space marine chapter world they knock out? Always interesting when the emperors finest are laid low.
It's hard to translate tone over the internet, so I often come across as quite blunt, and matter of fact. You are of course, correct, I won't drag it off topic anymore arguing with him.
It was the Angels Revenant chapter, an Ultramarines Successor Chapter. They actually did a really good job defending the Sector from Chaos, Orks and Dark Eldar during their time, It wasn't until the Necrons that they were wiped out.
EDIT:
Sure they are a threat. But I think they were a much more dire threat when the C'tan ruled them.
Because the C'tan were much more powerful then than they are now, since the fluff was rewritten.
In the new book the Necrons in general seem like a shadow of their former selves. Making alliances and negotiating instead of just mercilessly destroying any form of life they encounter.
The new Codex actually paints the C"tan as much more powerful than their previous incarnation, with their various mastery of the material universe greatly expanded on.
This IA books sounds quite decent, I've read most the other IA books with my favourites being The Badab War volumes. Most of the others have been pretty meh IMO, is this worth getting even if I'm not a Necron fan?
How did the massive rampage you describe end? or is it portrayed as ongoing?
uk_crow wrote: This IA books sounds quite decent, I've read most the other IA books with my favourites being The Badab War volumes. Most of the others have been pretty meh IMO, is this worth getting even if I'm not a Necron fan?
How did the massive rampage you describe end? or is it portrayed as ongoing?
I own several of the other IA books, and I feel this is the probably the best one. It's much better than IA11. It is mostly focused on the Necrons though, so unless you really enjoy the fluff or Like the other factions presented (Minotaurs, DkoK) I wouldn't rank it a must have.I have thoroughly enjoyed it though.
What's left of the fleet (Less than 10%) seizes their chance to retreat, and leaves the rest of the sector to it's fate, by cordoning it off, and declaring it no longer part of the Imperium. They say that it would take at least 50 years to amass the resources to mount a crusade on the sector, so they declare exterminatus as the best option. I don't see how they would be able to carry it out though, lol.
Sasori wrote: I own several of the other IA books, and I feel this is the probably the best one. It's much better than IA11. It is mostly focused on the Necrons though, so unless you really enjoy the fluff or Like the other factions presented (Minotaurs, DkoK) I wouldn't rank it a must have.I have thoroughly enjoyed it though.
What's left of the fleet (Less than 10%) seizes their chance to retreat, and leaves the rest of the sector to it's fate, by cordoning it off, and declaring it no longer part of the Imperium. They say that it would take at least 50 years to amass the resources to mount a crusade on the sector, so they declare exterminatus as the best option. I don't see how they would be able to carry it out though, lol.
Oi! This threat is about whether or not the necrons are dangerous, not about whether IA12 is good or not.
Kidding aside, isn't that a tad dull? Is the book really nothing but a list of necrons victories with the IoM being depicted as utterly defenses? Or are there other neat fights you're not mentioning?
Imo the threat of the Necrons is really much about the current timeline...
In the future they are going to be a major threat the the Imperium is going to need to pay a lot of attention too.
At the moment there not so much of a threat but this is mainly because there are other threats that are bigger currently (such as Chaos and Tyranids), the only reason why they get loads of wins in their battles is because of the imperium don't know that they are on worlds that contain Necrons, and therefore get caught off-guard by a full invasion force right beneath their feet.
My opinion is that Chaos is the major threat at the moment as Tyranids cannot cross the warp and if the warp was to expand it would devour whole sectors to the Gods of chaos, now if the warp got so far to the Tyranids, they would not stand a chance mainly because of the infinite daemons that would pour out and while many sources say the number of 'Nids are endless I can safely say that if the cant cross the warp and the worlds they need for food will be in the warp and would be incinerated as soon as they touch warp space would mean that the great devourer would be... well devoured .
Now onto the Necrons? yes they do have their techno-gadgets of Gauss descending doom but if they don't speed up waking up so soon they will also be delivered into the warp, and I doubt even the Necrons could withstand an infinite amount of daemons...
This is just my opinion of who is the greatest threat, indeed I do believe the Necrons are a big threat, but I think they will only be a big threat in the future, right now there just starting to wake up and the only reason why they are doings so well is because when they wake up the catch wherever was living there off-guard, but hey-ho I think my opinion will be shot down soon anyway...
uk_crow wrote: This IA books sounds quite decent, I've read most the other IA books with my favourites being The Badab War volumes. Most of the others have been pretty meh IMO, is this worth getting even if I'm not a Necron fan? How did the massive rampage you describe end? or is it portrayed as ongoing?
I own several of the other IA books, and I feel this is the probably the best one. It's much better than IA11. It is mostly focused on the Necrons though, so unless you really enjoy the fluff or Like the other factions presented (Minotaurs, DkoK) I wouldn't rank it a must have.I have thoroughly enjoyed it though.
What's left of the fleet (Less than 10%) seizes their chance to retreat, and leaves the rest of the sector to it's fate, by cordoning it off, and declaring it no longer part of the Imperium. They say that it would take at least 50 years to amass the resources to mount a crusade on the sector, so they declare exterminatus as the best option. I don't see how they would be able to carry it out though, lol.
Why is it the best IA volume in your opinion? I ask because Ive flipped trough it and with others and we didnt really care for it that much, maybe because we have no big involvement in Necrons. So I would like to see a positive review about what aspects from one who likes it. Of course the sector cut off means nothing if it remains an isolated incident for the Necrons. GW could decide it might be too soon for the Necrons to be a big threat, and leave them just sitting around in the cut off sector. Or just use exterminatus on the Tomb World, to even out the odds again. It depends were they go with it, probably nowhere though. Risk is that if they draw too much attention the IoM might just go and exterminate still dormant Tomb worlds. Then move with a significant force against surviving ones.
I feel like the new Matt-Wardian Necrons are less dangerous over all then the older RT-3rd ed. Necrons. Only because New-crons are more like an ancient empire that is re-emerging, and willing to parley with other interstellar powers to get what they want. They seem ok with alliances or using followers from other races.
Old-crons were just insane killing machines bound to the will of ineffable star gods bent on wiping out all sentient life.
Long-story-short: I'd rather be given a choice to kneel or fight, rather then just be obliterated for no reason other then that i have a pulse.
Yeah, the Necrons are dangerous. They'll wipe out your fleet, destroy your planet and annihilate any trace of your existence in the time it takes you to blink. Sure, most races can do that given proper preparation but the Necrons do with style.
On a side note, the Necron players are never going to let go of IA12, are they?
greg0985 wrote: I feel like the new Matt-Wardian Necrons are less dangerous over all then the older RT-3rd ed. Necrons. Only because New-crons are more like an ancient empire that is re-emerging, and willing to parley with other interstellar powers to get what they want. They seem ok with alliances or using followers from other races.
Old-crons were just insane killing machines bound to the will of ineffable star gods bent on wiping out all sentient life.
Long-story-short: I'd rather be given a choice to kneel or fight, rather then just be obliterated for no reason other then that i have a pulse.
Not all necrons are merciful. Some Tomb Worlds are still like the pre-ward necrons (see: The Severed).
In fact, the existence of factions makes them even more dangerous, as you can no longer predict their movements.
Long post, but I've got some free time. I give unto thee, EDUCATION.
The Daemons of Chaos are a reflection of the sum total of all emotion and psychic power throughout the galaxy. They have turned the Empire of Man into an unending battery of psychic power that has increased their strength beyond any means of stopping. They will eventually overtake the material universe and turn all reality into unreality, making the galaxy another eye of terror. This isn't a threat, it's just what's going to happen. Nothing can stop this, barring the destruction of all humanity, eldar, and whatever other sentience might also give them power.
The Tyranids are an interstellar force of nature that is slowly but surely piling into this galaxy, their current presence which has enflamed a quarter of the galaxy in war is barely a speck compared to what's still pouring in, this is the scouting party before the actual army arrives. They will overwhelm and devour everything as they have done in countless previous galaxies. This isn't a threat, it's just what's going to happen. Nothing can stop this, barring the unification of the entire galaxy to first push out what is here now and then defend the siege of the galaxy for as long as it takes to starve the tyranid race into destruction.
The necrons are an ancient race, possibly the first sentient race in this galaxy. Their technology is so far in advance of even their closest rivals, the eldar, that no comparisons can be made. Their armies defeated the Old Ones and all their slave races. This includes the original weaponized orks who would have none of the flaws of the current ones and would be united against a single threat under one leader, something the current imperium believes would conquer the galaxy easily. The Old Ones also had the unified pre-fall eldar with all the martial strength of the Dark Eldar and the psychic power of the Eldar. The Necrons defeated these and whatever else was thrown against them, then defeated the very gods that aided them and enslaved them. The only reason they went into their stasis sleep is because the massive war between them and the Old Ones had completely ruined the galaxy as a life-bearing ecosystem and it needed a few millennium to return to something fit for habitation. They are now beginning to wake up, and nothing in the galaxy is even close to being as powerful as the forces they initially defeated.
The difference between these three races is that the Necrons are not an emotionless force of destruction. They want to rule the galaxy, not destroy it. There are some rogue elements and flaws due to being in the middle of waking up, but this is just the equivalent of their booting up phase. They aren't even close to being awake yet.
Their leader, who has direct control of every single necron in the galaxy, views both the daemons and the tyranids as a threat that must be eliminated. The Necrons are the original occupants of this galaxy, having defeated all others who would claim it as their own. They believe this is their own rightful property, and everything they have done has been to defend it from those who would destroy it.
So yes, the Necrons are dangerous. But in the grimdarkness of the Warhammer 40k universe, the Necron dynasties are most likely the only hope the galaxy has of survival. The Imperium of Man, the Daemons, the Tyranids? These are the horrible dangerous threats to existence. The Necrons are the only heroes anyone has.
Their leader, who has direct control of every single necron in the galaxy,
Loyality protocols don't exist anymore. Further, oldcrons had multiple Gods to rule them ( C'Tan ), newcrons had a TRI-archy to rule them.
So zero single Leader and surely nothing like direct control of every Necron.
Plus, Chaos and Nids are overestimated in your post... Its a universe of possibilities, thus offered to us to come to play. Not a inevitable fate to make everything pointless.
Not gods, "gods". The C'Tan are not actually divine beings, they were simply worshiped as such by the Necrontyr, who didn't know any better. They are, in actuality, some sort of incredibly ancient Xeno, very Lovecraftian in scale and manner (case in point, Cthulhu is not a god, though he is worshiped as one by primitive and/or stupid humans, he's an alien and is, in fact, a priest himself).
The C'Tan come from an era before the laws of physics were firmly established, and thus enjoy some sort of "grandfather clause" benefits, such as being able to basically tell anything we would consider to be a law of physics affecting at least the entire galaxy, if not the universe, to feth right off.
This is how the Necrons were able to defeat them (with the very tools the C'Tan gave them) but were unable to kill them, instead building fancy Pokeballs to put them in. Just as Bjorn the Fell-Handed remarks that referring to the Emperor as a god was how all this trouble started, so too does the Silent King make the same reference to the C'Tan.
They are not the Lawful Evil opposition to the IoM, because the IoM is also Lawful Evil. There's no real place for "Team Good" in 40K. It's Order vs Disorder, which puts 3 of the 5 biggest power-house factions on the same team (IoM, Necron and Tyranid are all Order, Chaos and Orks are Disorder). Concepts of Good and Evil are rather subjective anyway. What the Necrons are doing, they view as good, at least, those who have the minds capable of such philosophies (which ain't many).
One of the problems they've done with the Newcrons is introduced some truly destructive weapons that have no counter at all. The Celestial Orrery is one such device. Why would the Necrons simply not super-nova Sol? They have no need of Terra, and that doesn't outright destroy humanity as a whole, it just makes them very easy to harvest. They have no need of the Astronomican, they just need a whole lot of human bodies to do tests on, to see if they can return themselves to lives of flesh (probably not, there's not enough sentient Necrons left to build a society out of, they've turned all their artists, philosophers, merchants, libertines, laborers and other common folk into Warriors, who are essentially mindless).
I liked the Newcrons when they were first introduced in the new Codex. It made sense, it gave them personality, and their science, advanced to the point of magic, kept some of that Lovecraft feel, but I think they've dialed it way up past 11, and they've now positioned them as utterly unstoppable.
I'm waiting for their time-traveling Necron to decide that Cain, Creed and Marbo are just too much of a pain in the ass to deal with, so he goes back in time and kills their great-grandparents.
It's Order vs Disorder, which puts 3 of the 5 biggest power-house factions on the same team (IoM, Necron and Tyranid are all Order, Chaos and Orks are Disorder).
Not to drag this off-course, but Tyranids in Team Order?? Why??
I'm waiting for their time-traveling Necron to decide that Cain, Creed and Marbo are just too much of a pain in the ass to deal with, so he goes back in time and kills their great-grandparents.
Not John Connor?
But basically GW equipped their Base, ie Humans , with every tool one could want to prevail in Cinematic edition 40.000 .
All those Action - Heroes belong to
Though the C'Tan aren't truly gods, they might as well be. True, within the warp, they are less then powerless...but in the material plane they wield so much power they are gods in all but name.
Just as the chaos gods are masters of the immaterium, the C'Tan are masters of the materium.
For those saying that Necron's don't have a Weakness, they do have a major one, and it is emphasized in the new IA as well.
When a Tomb World is waking up, it is VERY vulnerable, and it is mentioned that the rest of the sector was distracted by the Orks/Chaos incursions, that they didn't notice the Waking Tomb Worlds on the fringe.
Not to drag this off-course, but Tyranids in Team Order?? Why??
I would say because they are creatures of extreme order. Everything they do is orderly and all made toward feeding the hive. They act in a very understandable and orderly fashion, they target and attack until they have the goal well in hand, then like a well oiled machine, do it all over again.
Frankly, any faction of significant size, potential, or influence is dangerous to someone in 40k. So, in short, yes, the Necrons do pose a dangerous threat. However, this threat is also directed at themselves as they are not a unified race and one can see dynasties still butting heads (although not as often. One could say this mirrors mankind in 40k). They also have the problems that are arising from the sporadic awakening of Tomb Worlds, if they awaken at all. And while I do love my necrons, I'm a little more than irritated by Ward's writing of the necrons. Was it a step in the right direction for the Necrons? Perhaps, I'm one of those who says yes. Was it taken too far? It's indisputable, YES. Ward is like a hyper, imaginative child eager to please and show that he can do grown up tasks. He needs a parent or something to watch over his shoulder and tell him when enough is enough before it's taken too far.
Sasori wrote: For those saying that Necron's don't have a Weakness, they do have a major one, and it is emphasized in the new IA as well.
When a Tomb World is waking up, it is VERY vulnerable, and it is mentioned that the rest of the sector was distracted by the Orks/Chaos incursions, that they didn't notice the Waking Tomb Worlds on the fringe.
This, pretty much. While the individual Necron units are indestructible and cannot be captured by any means, destroying the tomb world they belong to will make them destroy themselves instead of teleporting back to their base. Necrons are a perfect example for why 40k is a setting - they aren't a big threat now with the exception of their rulers, the C'Tan, because they are only beginning to wake up, but should they be allowed to fully awake, they will roflstomp the entire universe. The entire *corporeal* universe. Just as Chaos can never win against Necrons in the corporeal universe due to Necrons eradicating every sentient life, Necrons can never fully defeat Chaos due to not having any sort of connection to the Warp.
The problem is finding those hidden tomb worlds - finding those would take a LOT of time, time the IoM hardly has given all the dangers they face. Truth be told, I really have to admire the IoM a bit...they know they have zero chance of winning this, but they never stop fighting. That's pretty awesome...mostly because The Nightbringer prefers tasty courageous souls.Nomnomnom.
As for how they conquered the first 60 planets, it was just brutal, all out lightning strikes, over scores of worlds at time. It wasn't a planet at time, but several scores. It was also plain extermination. No one was prepared for the Necrons assault, and it was implied that they had done their research ahead of time, It's just implied that their superior technology and lighting fast assaults simply overwhelmed that half of the sector.It also appears that they induced the planet that housed the Space Marine chapter, to erupt from the core, turning it into a molten wasteland. They also were able to drop a "Veil of Darkness" over half the sector, that functions similar to shadow of the warp, by disrupting communications, as well as seemingly "Swallowing" up anything passed into it. However, that may be up to interpretation if something was just destroyed by Necrons after it passed the Veil, or if the Veil itself was eliminating the ships.
This actually makes me feel better.
Previously i was under the impression that it was 60 worlds in 100 days, one at a time. That to me implied a speed that was flat out ludicrous. Attacking a large number of planets at once thought i can accept. 60 planets in 100 days seems ridiculous, impossible. One planet in 100 days (that's also occurring on 60 others planets) is much more palatable.
To the accusations of faboyism i'd like to point out that i don't really like the ecrons as they are now. Not so much the new aesthetic and tone, though i did prefer the 'oldcrons' but rather their power level which now seems ridiculous. Yet i'm still able to objectively appreciate the necrons as a threat, perhaps now as the greatest threat. Accepting that a faction is dangerous doesn't mean your favorite faction is suddenly lame or whatever. Grow up and take a step back.
I may not like the power level of the necrons but i'm not going to try and deny the evidence in front of me. (just try and rationalize it and tease it into balance with the rest of the setting).
King Pariah wrote: Frankly, any faction of significant size, potential, or influence is dangerous to someone in 40k. So, in short, yes, the Necrons do pose a dangerous threat. However, this threat is also directed at themselves as they are not a unified race and one can see dynasties still butting heads (although not as often. One could say this mirrors mankind in 40k). They also have the problems that are arising from the sporadic awakening of Tomb Worlds, if they awaken at all. And while I do love my necrons, I'm a little more than irritated by Ward's writing of the necrons. Was it a step in the right direction for the Necrons? Perhaps, I'm one of those who says yes. Was it taken too far? It's indisputable, YES. Ward is like a hyper, imaginative child eager to please and show that he can do grown up tasks. He needs a parent or something to watch over his shoulder and tell him when enough is enough before it's taken too far.
Agreed, the Necrons do seem horrendously OP but Matt ward gets carried away with everything (SM, Grey Knights). I have no problem with each faction being a large threat to the 40K, but compared to 4th Necrons have been turned up to 11. Just seems like total bull to me. There only weakness is when they wake up? Seems so weak, something a young child would write so his team would never lose.
Rems01 wrote: To the accusations of faboyism i'd like to point out that i don't really like the ecrons as they are now. Not so much the new aesthetic and tone, though i did prefer the 'oldcrons' but rather their power level which now seems ridiculous. Yet i'm still able to objectively appreciate the necrons as a threat, perhaps now as the greatest threat. Accepting that a faction is dangerous doesn't mean your favorite faction is suddenly lame or whatever. Grow up and take a step back.
As the fluff is being presented now? It actually does make every other faction look lame.
Having the dark eldar commit suicide rather than fight the necrons? That's one of the biggest b*tchslaps I can think of that you could give to the dignity of a faction. I wonder how many people would spam the forum with their rage if they had the SW do something like that.
Fighting as a daunting faction is fun, being pitched up against even more so. However, the problem with the current fluff (both codex and IA12) is that in order to make the necrons look so awesome they're just worfing every other faction out there. Actually it's worse than worfing, it's making the powerbalance so biased that it sucks out any reason to be interested in what's going on anymore. Why should I be invested in anything that goes on in the 40k universe if the necrons can just snap their fingers and make my chapter/regiment/craftworld/cabal/Waaagh/hive fleet disappear in the blink of an eye?
Now I'm not accusing anyone of fanboyism but when I see people encourage this type of fluff it's giving GW/FW the signal that we want more of this silly trite writing.
uk_crow wrote:Agreed, the Necrons do seem horrendously OP but Matt ward gets carried away with everything (SM, Grey Knights). I have no problem with each faction being a large threat to the 40K, but compared to 4th Necrons have been turned up to 11. Just seems like total bull to me. There only weakness is when they wake up? Seems so weak, something a young child would write so his team would never lose.
Indeed, that's like saying Space Marines their weakness needing to go to the bathroom.
This actually means we only have 2 possible scenarios when fighting necrons: either slaughter them effortlessly while they're taking a nap, or have them slaughter us effortlessly after they're done brushing their teeth.
I wasn't aware that the 40k-verse was a garden of equality wherein all factions were equal and balanced prior to the new Necron fluff. Surely, all codexes and fluff show factions constantly stalemates, never having triumphant victories over other factions or generally being awesome., and CERTAINLY without any sort of broad generalizations such as one faction could quite literally wipe out another faction.
That just doesn't happen in 40k, it's just those damn Necrons and their fanboys !!!
...right?
Spoiler:
ITT: butthurt fans of factions that have either been soundly beaten by Necrons, or haven't received GW love in a while
Mavlun wrote: I wasn't aware that the 40k-verse was a garden of equality wherein all factions were equal and balanced prior to the new Necron fluff. Surely, all codexes and fluff show factions constantly stalemates, never having triumphant victories over other factions or generally being awesome., and CERTAINLY without any sort of broad generalizations such as one faction could quite literally wipe out another faction.
That just doesn't happen in 40k, it's just those damn Necrons and their fanboys !!!
...right?
Spoiler:
ITT: butthurt fans of factions that have either been soundly beaten by Necrons, or haven't received GW love in a while
Your rudeness in this thread is wearing thin. If you can't actually put forward a decent point without insulting or belittling people don't bother. All people are saying is some of the capabilities of the Necron race just seem to have accelerated by a large amount and their background has undergone a massive change in such little time.
Mavlun wrote: I wasn't aware that the 40k-verse was a garden of equality wherein all factions were equal and balanced prior to the new Necron fluff. Surely, all codexes and fluff show factions constantly stalemates, never having triumphant victories over other factions or generally being awesome., and CERTAINLY without any sort of broad generalizations such as one faction could quite literally wipe out another faction.
That just doesn't happen in 40k, it's just those damn Necrons and their fanboys !!!
...right?
Spoiler:
ITT: butthurt fans of factions that have either been soundly beaten by Necrons, or haven't received GW love in a while
Your rudeness in this thread is wearing thin. If you can't actually put forward a decent point without insulting or belittling people don't bother.
All people are saying is some of the capabilities of the Necron race just seem to have accelerated by a large amount and their background has undergone a massive change in such little time.
Nope, it's people flat out bashing on Necrons and Necron fans. You included.
They are by far for one of the most poorly conceived factions out there IMHO. They're the Mary Sues of the Xenos at this moment.
They really sound like something an 8 year old would cook up for his own fanfic, they have no flaws and out perform everyone at everything. Buy hey, if some people like that kind of gak, good for them. Just don't expect me to take their fluff any more serious than LCB.
uk_crow wrote: they are by far the most uninteresting army/faction for this very reason. well said!
My previous post was a completely valid point (albeit drenched in sarcasm for which I apologize if it was too subtle) that the thin veil of "they're OTT and that's why I dislike them" is just a poor excuse to bash on the entire faction and its fans, perpetrated by people that suffer from inferiority complexes due to the reasons mentioned in my previous post. THAT is a "decent point" as you say, and a pretty obvious one at that. If you think my post which was simply sarcastic, and had an actual point to it was rude, then what do you call bashing an entire faction and thereby its fandom?
Saying "hahahahaha you're totally right, they suck" which is the gist of your contribution to this topic is not a decent point. Look to your own posts?
Mavlun wrote: Well if you're not trolling, that says a lot about your lack of knowledge, despite having been involved in several topics that showcased just how powerful the Necrons are. Maybe it's a learning disability, I guess.
Have i said anyone has a learning disability though?
uk_crow wrote: they are by far the most uninteresting army/faction for this very reason. well said!
That's an opinion, and doesn't involve any necrons fans and i've also taken an interest in the new imperial armour book which i'm purchasing as we speak due to Sasori's recommendation.
uk_crow wrote: This IA books sounds quite decent, I've read most the other IA books with my favourites being The Badab War volumes. Most of the others have been pretty meh IMO, is this worth getting even if I'm not a Necron fan?
How did the massive rampage you describe end? or is it portrayed as ongoing?
I own several of the other IA books, and I feel this is the probably the best one. It's much better than IA11. It is mostly focused on the Necrons though, so unless you really enjoy the fluff or Like the other factions presented (Minotaurs, DkoK) I wouldn't rank it a must have.I have thoroughly enjoyed it though.
What's left of the fleet (Less than 10%) seizes their chance to retreat, and leaves the rest of the sector to it's fate, by cordoning it off, and declaring it no longer part of the Imperium. They say that it would take at least 50 years to amass the resources to mount a crusade on the sector, so they declare exterminatus as the best option. I don't see how they would be able to carry it out though, lol.
So if i hate them so much why would i be willing to spend £50 on a book on them?
Mavlun wrote: ITT: butthurt fans of factions that have either been soundly beaten by Necrons, or haven't received GW love in a while
First of all: abuse of the word butthurt. Secondly: It's not "butthurt" when you explain your opinion. The Ne(w)crons in my opinion have a high amount of AWESOME in their fluff (yeah, I prefer space dead egyptians than space terminators, but this depends), but it's honestly a bit OTT (like many, if all, of the Ward works).
Heck, if SW or Tau did conquer 60 planets in 100 days I'd leave them and start a new army.
Mavlun wrote: Nope, it's people flat out bashing on Necrons and Necron fans. You included.
Sigh, fine, I apologize to any necron fan who's felt personally assailed by any criticism posted in this threat, my beef is with the fluff, not with any one person who happens to enjoy it. A lot of my wordings have indeed been unnecessarily boorish towards other people's subjective tastes. Sorry about that.
But that still doesn't mean I'm happy with the signal we're giving to GW by supporting these OTT stories.
Mavlun wrote: My previous post was a completely valid point (albeit drenched in sarcasm for which I apologize if it was too subtle) that the thin veil of "they're OTT and that's why I dislike them" is just a poor excuse to bash on the entire faction and its fans, perpetrated by people that suffer from inferiority complexes due to the reasons mentioned in my previous post. THAT is a "decent point" as you say, and a pretty obvious one at that. If you think my post which was simply sarcastic, and had an actual point to it was rude, then what do you call bashing an entire faction and thereby its fandom?
Why on earth would we make up excuses to bash on a faction? Is the possibility that we, GASP!, genuinely don't like the new fluff so alien to you that you can only skew our opinions as obfuscated swindles to hide our own insecurities? Please.
Also: how the hell does a company not marketing some of our plastic toys serve to quantify our personal issues? I would genuinely love to hear your reasoning behind this.
the haters should just face it. tyranids are slowly killing everyone with their uber fast evolution, chaos is a threat as it spreads everywhere, but the imperium has ways to fight back against it effectively. orks are a severe threat but can be handled if planned well. but the Necrons are overall the biggest long term threat to everyone. if the Necrons began acting as a coordinated empire everyone would be boned. the only reason anyone ever beats them is because they fight smaller forces of necrons. their technology extinguished life from the galaxy before and it could do it again. the tomb worlds all just need to wake up and communicate
I can't believe this is still going, On a side note I got the impression that there are some imperial controlled worlds left. Not to mention the damage the DKok and Minotaurs cause to the cons. Moloc Severely damaged Kutlakh. The Necron fleet Took casualties also, granted the Imperial fleet was left at around 10% and the book wasn't clear what condition the Cons fleet was in after the fight.
Quote "The rest of the surviving Necron ships along with the Wounded Dead Hand simply vanished." I feel They only ran away like this because the Minotaurs boarded The dead hand and Almost killed off the (Main) Over lord.
I have to say a lot of the fluff, not just the Necrons, is written in a style that seems as if the writter is a fanboi.
Which creates more fanboi mentality.
As has been said, the OTT writing of certain people...we shall not mention Ward's name to preserve the guilty ...is what detracts from the WHOLE story of the game.
It makes other armies seem like a footnote in the overall scheme of the fluff and destroys the ability for some(myself included) to enjoy the overall scope of the galaxy.
Luckily I am adult enough to just ignore the 'Necrons are beast, har har har stupid space Elves of yours' comments and enjoy the game in my own way. But it would be nice if such shoddy writing didn't happen in the first place.
Farseer Faenyin wrote: I have to say a lot of the fluff, not just the Necrons, is written in a style that seems as if the writter is a fanboi.
Which creates more fanboi mentality.
As has been said, the OTT writing of certain people...we shall not mention Ward's name to preserve the guilty ...is what detracts from the WHOLE story of the game.
It makes other armies seem like a footnote in the overall scheme of the fluff and destroys the ability for some(myself included) to enjoy the overall scope of the galaxy.
Luckily I am adult enough to just ignore the 'Necrons are beast, har har har stupid space Elves of yours' comments and enjoy the game in my own way. But it would be nice if such shoddy writing didn't happen in the first place.
kinratha wrote: I can't believe this is still going, On a side note I got the impression that there are some imperial controlled worlds left. Not to mention the damage the DKok and Minotaurs cause to the cons. Moloc Severely damaged Kutlakh. The Necron fleet Took casualties also, granted the Imperial fleet was left at around 10% and the book wasn't clear what condition the Cons fleet was in after the fight.
Quote "The rest of the surviving Necron ships along with the Wounded Dead Hand simply vanished." I feel They only ran away like this because the Minotaurs boarded The dead hand and Almost killed off the (Main) Over lord.
my 2cents.
The book was fairly clear that the Necron fleet took absolutely minimum casualties, as they had taken down "So few, so very few" during the only real offensive the Imperial fleet had, as after that,the Necron Fleet passed though, and reversed and then ransacked the fleet from behind.
Kutlakh took damage from Moloc, but clearly nothing crippling, as the fact is he then proceeded to easily overwhelm Moloc. The Dead Hand retreated because it needed to be repaired, and only part of the fleet left with it. It's pretty clear the Imperials weren't in a position to do anything at that point, except retreat.
The rest of the fleet didn't Vanish either. The Sunkiller, and part of the fleet proceeded to continue their extermination on another nearby planet.
A question. What does the book say on the hypothethical subject of Kutlakh's defeat? If somehow Moloch won and smashedhis necrodermis head into a pancake, what then?
It bothers me that there are so many mentions of (Over)Lords being destroyed in the Codex, all those asassination attempts on them - how do these work out? Do Necron Lords not phase out anymore, what's the big deal?
Survivor19 wrote: A question. What does the book say on the hypothethical subject of Kutlakh's defeat? If somehow Moloch won and smashedhis necrodermis head into a pancake, what then?
It bothers me that there are so many mentions of (Over)Lords being destroyed in the Codex, all those asassination attempts on them - how do these work out? Do Necron Lords not phase out anymore, what's the big deal?
If Kutlakh had sustained enough damage to the point his Protocols wouldn't have fixed it, he would have phased out back to his Tomb World for repairs.
Survivor19 wrote: A question. What does the book say on the hypothethical subject of Kutlakh's defeat? If somehow Moloch won and smashedhis necrodermis head into a pancake, what then?
It bothers me that there are so many mentions of (Over)Lords being destroyed in the Codex, all those asassination attempts on them - how do these work out? Do Necron Lords not phase out anymore, what's the big deal?
They definitely phase out, and can be restored to perfect working condition fairly quickly in a Tomb complex, which does not have to be planetary-bound.
kinratha wrote: I can't believe this is still going, On a side note I got the impression that there are some imperial controlled worlds left. Not to mention the damage the DKok and Minotaurs cause to the cons. Moloc Severely damaged Kutlakh. The Necron fleet Took casualties also, granted the Imperial fleet was left at around 10% and the book wasn't clear what condition the Cons fleet was in after the fight.
Quote "The rest of the surviving Necron ships along with the Wounded Dead Hand simply vanished." I feel They only ran away like this because the Minotaurs boarded The dead hand and Almost killed off the (Main) Over lord.
my 2cents.
The book was fairly clear that the Necron fleet took absolutely minimum casualties, as they had taken down "So few, so very few" during the only real offensive the Imperial fleet had, as after that,the Necron Fleet passed though, and reversed and then ransacked the fleet from behind.
Kutlakh took damage from Moloc, but clearly nothing crippling, as the fact is he then proceeded to easily overwhelm Moloc. The Dead Hand retreated because it needed to be repaired, and only part of the fleet left with it. It's pretty clear the Imperials weren't in a position to do anything at that point, except retreat.
The rest of the fleet didn't Vanish either. The Sunkiller, and part of the fleet proceeded to continue their extermination on another nearby planet.
At what point dose Kutlakh overwhelm Moloc? Moloc stabbed Kutlakh and damaged him and Kutlakh broke Moloc's SS. As the Dead hand was hit with another salvo it rocked and Moloc was thrown into space with the remaining strike force (Though very few we left alive) and Kutlakh "Retreated into darkness" its all on pg 58 paragraph 4. I'm not trying to say anything that resembles Con hate or imperial fanboyism I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due. With out the damage to both Kutlakh and the Dead Hand, the necrons would of completely wiped out the Navy.
t what point dose Kutlakh overwhelm Moloc? Moloc stabbed Kutlakh and damaged him and Kutlakh broke Moloc's SS. As the Dead hand was hit with another salvo it rocked and Moloc was thrown into space with the remaining strike force (Though very few we left alive) and Kutlakh "Retreated into darkness" its all on pg 58 paragraph 4. I'm not trying to say anything that resembles Con hate or imperial fanboyism I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due. With out the damage to both Kutlakh and the Dead Hand, the necrons would of completely wiped out the Navy.
Moloc Stabbed Kutlakh, from behind. After Kutlkh actually engaged Moloc, Moloc wasn't able to even land a strike on Kutlakh, while at the same time, getting pummeled. How is that not overwhelming? The only thing that saved Moloc was getting sucked out into space.
If you keep reading that SAME paragraph, it mentions the Sun Killer and a dozen raiders land on Auric, not retreating away with the rest of the fleet.
t what point dose Kutlakh overwhelm Moloc? Moloc stabbed Kutlakh and damaged him and Kutlakh broke Moloc's SS. As the Dead hand was hit with another salvo it rocked and Moloc was thrown into space with the remaining strike force (Though very few we left alive) and Kutlakh "Retreated into darkness" its all on pg 58 paragraph 4. I'm not trying to say anything that resembles Con hate or imperial fanboyism I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due. With out the damage to both Kutlakh and the Dead Hand, the necrons would of completely wiped out the Navy.
Moloc Stabbed Kutlakh, from behind. After Kutlkh actually engaged Moloc, Moloc wasn't able to even land a strike on Kutlakh, while at the same time, getting pummeled. How is that not overwhelming? The only thing that saved Moloc was getting sucked out into space.
If you keep reading that SAME paragraph, it mentions the Sun Killer and a dozen raiders land on Auric, not retreating away with the rest of the fleet.
It till dose not say that Moloc was getting pummeled.
I would even hazard to say that the Necrons are more of a threat than if the Orks ever united.
Literally the only weakness the Necrons have is that they can't replace all the troops that were made from actual Necrontyr minds. But at the same time, no one knows how many of those troops they have "in storage". Millions? Billions? And remember that huge amounts of Necrons that are defeated are simply sent back to be repaired, not dead and requiring years to replace, like other races.
Even if campaigns against them are very successful, it could be thousands of years before the Dynasties would even need to worry about diminishing replacements.
Imagine how much of a threat to the galaxy the armies of the Imperial Guard would be if half of the people that were "killed" by enemy fire either got back up or disappeared to come back at 100% condition another day.
t what point dose Kutlakh overwhelm Moloc? Moloc stabbed Kutlakh and damaged him and Kutlakh broke Moloc's SS. As the Dead hand was hit with another salvo it rocked and Moloc was thrown into space with the remaining strike force (Though very few we left alive) and Kutlakh "Retreated into darkness" its all on pg 58 paragraph 4. I'm not trying to say anything that resembles Con hate or imperial fanboyism I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due. With out the damage to both Kutlakh and the Dead Hand, the necrons would of completely wiped out the Navy.
Moloc Stabbed Kutlakh, from behind. After Kutlkh actually engaged Moloc, Moloc wasn't able to even land a strike on Kutlakh, while at the same time, getting pummeled. How is that not overwhelming? The only thing that saved Moloc was getting sucked out into space.
If you keep reading that SAME paragraph, it mentions the Sun Killer and a dozen raiders land on Auric, not retreating away with the rest of the fleet.
It till dose not say that Moloc was getting pummeled.
So, when you have someone relentlessly beating the crap out of you, to the point that your Shield is broken, while not landing a blow, is not getting pummeled.
t what point dose Kutlakh overwhelm Moloc? Moloc stabbed Kutlakh and damaged him and Kutlakh broke Moloc's SS. As the Dead hand was hit with another salvo it rocked and Moloc was thrown into space with the remaining strike force (Though very few we left alive) and Kutlakh "Retreated into darkness" its all on pg 58 paragraph 4. I'm not trying to say anything that resembles Con hate or imperial fanboyism I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due. With out the damage to both Kutlakh and the Dead Hand, the necrons would of completely wiped out the Navy.
Moloc Stabbed Kutlakh, from behind. After Kutlkh actually engaged Moloc, Moloc wasn't able to even land a strike on Kutlakh, while at the same time, getting pummeled. How is that not overwhelming? The only thing that saved Moloc was getting sucked out into space.
If you keep reading that SAME paragraph, it mentions the Sun Killer and a dozen raiders land on Auric, not retreating away with the rest of the fleet.
It till dose not say that Moloc was getting pummeled.
So, when you have someone relentlessly beating the crap out of you, to the point that your Shield is broken, while not landing a blow, is not getting pummeled.
Please, explain.
Again, it says Kutlkh Split and cracked his shield. and again the book never said anything about moloc not landing a hit on him.
t what point dose Kutlakh overwhelm Moloc? Moloc stabbed Kutlakh and damaged him and Kutlakh broke Moloc's SS. As the Dead hand was hit with another salvo it rocked and Moloc was thrown into space with the remaining strike force (Though very few we left alive) and Kutlakh "Retreated into darkness" its all on pg 58 paragraph 4. I'm not trying to say anything that resembles Con hate or imperial fanboyism I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due. With out the damage to both Kutlakh and the Dead Hand, the necrons would of completely wiped out the Navy.
Moloc Stabbed Kutlakh, from behind. After Kutlkh actually engaged Moloc, Moloc wasn't able to even land a strike on Kutlakh, while at the same time, getting pummeled. How is that not overwhelming? The only thing that saved Moloc was getting sucked out into space.
If you keep reading that SAME paragraph, it mentions the Sun Killer and a dozen raiders land on Auric, not retreating away with the rest of the fleet.
It till dose not say that Moloc was getting pummeled.
So, when you have someone relentlessly beating the crap out of you, to the point that your Shield is broken, while not landing a blow, is not getting pummeled.
Please, explain.
Again, it says Kutlkh Split and cracked his shield. and again the book never said anything about moloc not landing a hit on him.
It doesn't have to specify that Moloc did not land a hit on him. It's clearly implied by the paragraph, and the fact that every time he did hit earlier in the battle, was written.
So, tell me, what is your definition, of someone getting attacked so furiously, that your equipment is getting broken, and not landing a single hit on them.
t what point dose Kutlakh overwhelm Moloc? Moloc stabbed Kutlakh and damaged him and Kutlakh broke Moloc's SS. As the Dead hand was hit with another salvo it rocked and Moloc was thrown into space with the remaining strike force (Though very few we left alive) and Kutlakh "Retreated into darkness" its all on pg 58 paragraph 4. I'm not trying to say anything that resembles Con hate or imperial fanboyism I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due. With out the damage to both Kutlakh and the Dead Hand, the necrons would of completely wiped out the Navy.
Moloc Stabbed Kutlakh, from behind. After Kutlkh actually engaged Moloc, Moloc wasn't able to even land a strike on Kutlakh, while at the same time, getting pummeled. How is that not overwhelming? The only thing that saved Moloc was getting sucked out into space.
If you keep reading that SAME paragraph, it mentions the Sun Killer and a dozen raiders land on Auric, not retreating away with the rest of the fleet.
It till dose not say that Moloc was getting pummeled.
So, when you have someone relentlessly beating the crap out of you, to the point that your Shield is broken, while not landing a blow, is not getting pummeled.
Please, explain.
Again, it says Kutlkh Split and cracked his shield. and again the book never said anything about moloc not landing a hit on him.
It doesn't have to specify that Moloc did not land a hit on him. It's clearly implied by the paragraph, and the fact that every time he did hit earlier in the battle, was written.
So, tell me, what is your definition, of someone getting attacked so furiously, that your equipment is getting broken, and not landing a single hit on them.
You can get smacked pretty hard by almost anything and you'r equipment can be broken. I don't understand why you're defending this so furiously. I have stated before, in previous post that I am not trying to hate on Cons but really.. Kutlkh got smacked by Moloc in CC. In return, The Cons left the Imperial Navy with at 90% casualty during the space combat and they took over half the sector in 100 days. Lets just leave it at that.
t what point dose Kutlakh overwhelm Moloc? Moloc stabbed Kutlakh and damaged him and Kutlakh broke Moloc's SS. As the Dead hand was hit with another salvo it rocked and Moloc was thrown into space with the remaining strike force (Though very few we left alive) and Kutlakh "Retreated into darkness" its all on pg 58 paragraph 4. I'm not trying to say anything that resembles Con hate or imperial fanboyism I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due. With out the damage to both Kutlakh and the Dead Hand, the necrons would of completely wiped out the Navy.
Moloc Stabbed Kutlakh, from behind. After Kutlkh actually engaged Moloc, Moloc wasn't able to even land a strike on Kutlakh, while at the same time, getting pummeled. How is that not overwhelming? The only thing that saved Moloc was getting sucked out into space.
If you keep reading that SAME paragraph, it mentions the Sun Killer and a dozen raiders land on Auric, not retreating away with the rest of the fleet.
It till dose not say that Moloc was getting pummeled.
So, when you have someone relentlessly beating the crap out of you, to the point that your Shield is broken, while not landing a blow, is not getting pummeled.
Please, explain.
Again, it says Kutlkh Split and cracked his shield. and again the book never said anything about moloc not landing a hit on him.
It doesn't have to specify that Moloc did not land a hit on him. It's clearly implied by the paragraph, and the fact that every time he did hit earlier in the battle, was written.
So, tell me, what is your definition, of someone getting attacked so furiously, that your equipment is getting broken, and not landing a single hit on them.
You can get smacked pretty hard by almost anything and you'r equipment can be broken. I don't understand why you're defending this so furiously. I have stated before, in previous post that I am not trying to hate on Cons but really.. Kutlkh got smacked by Moloc in CC. In return, The Cons left the Imperial Navy with at 90% casualty during the space combat and they took over half the sector in 100 days. Lets just leave it at that.
I'm defending it, because my position is correct. Why should I not defend it?
So, you're agree with me, that Moloc was getting pummeled yes?
How did Kutlakh get smacked in CC? Moloc threw his spear on him, while he was occupied with a Contemptor Dread and his back was turned. He clearly did not get "Smacked" in cc, he wasn't even in CC with Moloc, when that happend. Kutalah then proceded to Smack Moloc arond.
I must ask something in terms of the IA12 (Necrons). Is it even worth buying for a fluff liker? It kinda sounded cool to have some additional Necron fluff but from what I hear it seems to be an OTT Necrons win everything and are better than Orks, Necrons, and Chaos combined. Does it have victories for the other race? Battles that cost the army vast numbers of units dead? (I'm rather new to Forgeworld. Is this how it is for all of them?)
StarTrotter wrote: I must ask something in terms of the IA12 (Necrons). Is it even worth buying for a fluff liker? It kinda sounded cool to have some additional Necron fluff but from what I hear it seems to be an OTT Necrons win everything and are better than Orks, Necrons, and Chaos combined. Does it have victories for the other race? Battles that cost the army vast numbers of units dead? (I'm rather new to Forgeworld. Is this how it is for all of them?)
There is a lot more to the fluff, than just the Necrons. It details the history of the sector, including Ork Invasions, Chaos Incurasions, and other things that befall the sector. It also provides a really unique Dynasty. However, the Necrons do pretty much steamroll everyone in their battles. I still stand by the book being worth it.
Tbh I thought the fluff of the Newcrons were ok as it provided an army that could be hard as hell to beat once it was fully awoken from my perspective but even then I thought there was ways to beat them even when this occurred...
But now it seems with IA 12 the Necrons are OTT they went from masters of technology in this universe bending their martial gods to their will and had badass guns, to "Oh we awoke... BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROFLSTOMPEVERYTHING BHAHAHAHAHA" and proceed to do exactly that at a ridiculous speed, to me, my opinion is that it isn't Ward this time who wrote the OTT fluff (que shock horror) as in the codex he had ways that you could beat an army of Newcrons, but more of whoever wrote the IA book filling in all the weaknesses of the Newcrons with counters and adding stuff just to pull off the middle digit at all other factions... I don't believe IIRC in other IA books any other faction has beaten the IoM until now.
But with the new added fluff of the Necrons it seems really that... you cant beat them which is rather demoralising, and for me it does rather question if I should be playing 40k as I know my army's will most likely get beaten by Newcrons (and yes I am a fluff bunny, I love the universe of 40k hence why I play the game and armies that I play).
I don't believe IIRC in other IA books any other faction has beaten the IoM until now.
This is not correct.
In their respective books Tyranids, Tau, Orks have beaten the Imperium. Eldar got the technical win as well, due to fulfilling their objective (although from Imperium's perspective they achieved a glorious victory against treacherous and cowardly Xenos).
happygolucky wrote: Tbh I thought the fluff of the Newcrons were ok as it provided an army that could be hard as hell to beat once it was fully awoken from my perspective but even then I thought there was ways to beat them even when this occurred...
But now it seems with IA 12 the Necrons are OTT they went from masters of technology in this universe bending their martial gods to their will and had badass guns, to "Oh we awoke... BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROFLSTOMPEVERYTHING BHAHAHAHAHA" and proceed to do exactly that at a ridiculous speed, to me, my opinion is that it isn't Ward this time who wrote the OTT fluff (que shock horror) as in the codex he had ways that you could beat an army of Newcrons, but more of whoever wrote the IA book filling in all the weaknesses of the Newcrons with counters and adding stuff just to pull off the middle digit at all other factions... I don't believe IIRC in other IA books any other faction has beaten the IoM until now.
But with the new added fluff of the Necrons it seems really that... you cant beat them which is rather demoralising, and for me it does rather question if I should be playing 40k as I know my army's will most likely get beaten by Newcrons (and yes I am a fluff bunny, I love the universe of 40k hence why I play the game and armies that I play).
I still think that the Newcrons have a weakness even after getting high on indestructibility in recent writings. Going by "Dead Men Walking" all it takes is a kreig siege regiment, several artillery batteries, and a few million spare bodies.
*Although this was as the Tomb World awoke, so some of the more powerful stuff hadn't come through. But interestingly it makes references to some stuff seen in the Newcron codex, even though it was written quite a long time before Ward started making Newcrons. For example, the Necron Lord can communicate with humans, and tried to ask them to leave, and it describes those new walker-y things the Necrons now have...
Here is the thing, why based on fluff before IA should the necrones not be LOL stomping everything in its waKE? Even the "far less interesting and kinda stall IMO old cons). They were always the best technically advanced race, vs people with far lesser tech, they more or less can't be killed off permanently, they have fleets faster and better than everyone else>
The Necrones have always been able to rollstump anyone and everyone, if you just go by fluff alone. The new fluff does make them more bad ass, but it also makes them not a unified race, which is the one and only thing saving every other faction.
Honestly, when you have a race that can not be killed, can match you nearly on numbers of troops and has tech so far advanced above anything you can hope to have its magic to you, how do you expect it to go down?
Destroying all of the necron tombs and shutting them down means they cannot be rebuilt, and this they die. Also, a lot of tombs don't have this system as it broke etc.
WarAngel wrote: Necrons are dangerous because they're robotic old men with super guns wanting the young people to get off their lawns.
Not exactly. They are the immortal beings made of metal, back to conquer that galaxy that was once theirs, but they lost when after the fight with the C'tan left them in tatters and thus they went into the Great Sleep to avoid being killed by the eldar, and just want back what they think is rightfully theirs. Many are no more than robots, for they were stripped of intelligence and soul, programmed to battle for the sentient yet soulless Overlords.
Grimskul wrote: Er....I have to agree this topic is far too broad and redundant considering the other Necron topic going on right now. I think the fact that they are a faction makes them a threat in some way, especially with something like the Celestial Orrery.
Yeah the Orrery alone makes them the most powerful force in the galaxy... hands down.
"Tyranids invading? Let me just hit this easy button. There. 1000000000 billion bugs dead. Send some immortals to clean up the mess."
Nah the Necrons are not dangerous... uh they ar THE biggest threat together with Nids.
Their power lvl is beyond imagination, only kept in reasonable check because they haven't awakened to full force, half of them become dumb or mad and only a few brilliant minds (like Immothek) are getting their acts together.
If the High King would take matters into hand personally i fear the galaxy would be swept in a serious fast pace, altough he is now more concerned with the threat the Tyranids pose.
Although Necrons are not hellbent on destroying all life, utter enslavement would be the destiny of Galaxy.
WarAngel wrote: Necrons are dangerous because they're robotic old men with super guns wanting the young people to get off their lawns.
Not exactly. They are the immortal beings made of metal, back to conquer that galaxy that was once theirs, but they lost when after the fight with the C'tan left them in tatters and thus they went into the Great Sleep to avoid being killed by the eldar, and just want back what they think is rightfully theirs. Many are no more than robots, for they were stripped of intelligence and soul, programmed to battle for the sentient yet soulless Overlords.
So old crotchety robots who want all the younger races to get off their lawns then.
Valek wrote: Nah the Necrons are not dangerous... uh they ar THE biggest threat together with Nids.
Their power lvl is beyond imagination, only kept in reasonable check because they haven't awakened to full force, half of them become dumb or mad and only a few brilliant minds (like Immothek) are getting their acts together.
If the High King would take matters into hand personally i fear the galaxy would be swept in a serious fast pace, altough he is now more concerned with the threat the Tyranids pose.
Although Necrons are not hellbent on destroying all life, utter enslavement would be the destiny of Galaxy.
I would put a fully awaken Necron force between the tyranids and chaos daemon with the daemons being above them. In page 85 of the cron codex, in the strange sciences section. It stats to the daemons of the warp, they are just another flavour of existence to be corrupted and devoured.
When the Tyranids were laying a siege to the Tau world of Ka'Mais, and the Tau were being slaughtered, the moon of Ka'Mais awakened and turned out to be a Tomb World.
They swiftly exterminated the Tyranids and proceeded to harvest Ka'Mais.
The fluff has constantly stated that the number of dormant tombworlds, as well as WORKING dormant tombworlds, is unknown.
Therefore, POTENTIALLY, the necrons could be the biggest threat to mankind if enough tombworlds existed. However, the fluff is purposefully ambiguous on this and outright STATES that this factor is unknown. Due to this, we will not know how much a threat the necrons TRUE potential is (or, if you will, there is no true potential. This is basically a case of the "canon" literally saying there is no canon true potential. It's up to you, the player, to make up in your headcanon how many tombworlds are actually out there if you're so inclined).
An individual dynasty like the Maynarkh dynasty is a threat to an entire sector. However, without knowing how many other Maynarkh dynasties exist, you can't say for sure how much a threat it is to the Imperium. Pretty much the sky is the limit in this case.
At most, you can say how much a threat the necrons are to the Imperium "at the very least". We don't know how much a threat they are at "the very most", but we do have an idea of how much a threat they are "at the very least". (IE, established fluff of known tombworlds in existence)
If I had to guess, I'd rank it like this:
1. Chaos. Easy one. Chaos definitely has the highest MINIMUM "at the very least" threat amount to the Imperium. The 13th Black Crusade is explicitly stated to be the largest mobilization of Imperium forces since the Great Crusade. Tyranids and Necrons could POTENTIALLY do more than that, but going by "at the very least", Chaos wins cause they actually ARE doing that. Going by "at the most", however, and it's more up in the air.
(note: the next 3 could be a three-way tie. I haven't actually tallied up everything and am only going by gut feeling and "off the top of my head" instinct)
2. Tyranids. Of note is that the Silent King views Tyranids as the greatest threat and thus something the necrons must unite behind. Again, I must disclaim this is "at the very least". At "the very most", the Tyranids could potentially force the Imperium to mobilize every single human being IN EXISTANCE in order to fight it off. However, that's in-universe speculation. Still, sticking to "at the very least", the Tyranids have done a LOT.
2. Orks. The Beast threatened the life of the Imperium when the orks united. There's nothing to say they won't ever do that again. Definitely, at the very least, the orks are a huge threat to the Imperium, but whether or not they become that threat today and how much is a "What if" (it's a "What if" that's proven to be possible and done before, as shown by the Beast, but still a "what-if" in the present day)
2. Necrons. Destroying and conquering entire sectors in a ridiculously short amount of time. I'm pretty sure the amount of sectors and planets they destroyed in the fluff is more than most other xenos besides orks and tyrannids.
Of the three, I'd probably put necrons at the bottom when it comes to threat "at the least", Most of the necrons is still "potential" and "what-if" rather than anything that actually exists right now. However, their "potential" and "what-if" is fast becoming "actual", if IA 12 is any indication. When it comes to threat "at the most", however, they're right up top with the other 3. Possibly even more, with the exception of the tyranids (pretty hard to beat the nid's "Force the Imperium to mobilize every human in existence" potential). This is possibly deliberate, given that the Silent King wants to unite the Necrons and awaken the tomb worlds specifically to fight the Tyranids. IE, in the Silent King's eyes, WH4Xk (the "X" there is to represent the future) is "Necrons vs Tyranids, with all those other guys who are just speed bumps in the big picture of things". I'll still file it under "at the most" potential instead of "at the least" because no one knows how many Tomb Worlds are still in working condition.
And then you have all those other guys who are basically reduced to piracy or scattered remnants (Eldar, Dark Eldar) or mostly spared (Tau) cause the Imperium is too busy dealing with the big 4 (Chaos, Tyranids, Orks, Necrons).
Fun sidenote: At least according to the summaries of IA12 in Lexicanum, the Maynarkh dyanasty's progress was finally slowed down because the Chaos guys in the area decided to get involved. (that doesn't mean they're stronger or weaker. Just that it goes to show they're capable of fighting the Maynarkh dynasty once they're done eating popcorn)
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the way, necrons and tyranids do not share the same goal, for those who keep saying that. They've been shown to consistently destroy each other (with the necrons usually winning) whenever the tyrannids appear. Heck, necrons actually save or fight alongside other races when it comes to tyranids. (like the Tau, where the necrons destroyed the tyranids first before harvesting the tau. Or like the Blood Angels, where the necrons and blood angels not only teamed up against the tyranids, but even decided to let each other leave afterwards).
And the Silent King's stated goal is to get the necrons to unite against the nids.
Post Fri, 02/Aug/2013 07:48:56 PM Subject: Re:Are the Necrons dangerous?
Ratius wrote:
Sources on this VD?
Literally every engagement between the two?
When the Tyranids were laying a siege to the Tau world of Ka'Mais, and the Tau were being slaughtered, the moon of Ka'Mais awakened and turned out to be a Tomb World.
They swiftly exterminated the Tyranids and proceeded to harvest Ka'Mais.
There are said to be "millions" of Necron Tomb Worlds in the galaxy, so in terms of total worlds occupied, they outnumber the Imperium. Though much like the Orks, they are not a united species.
That, and the fact they are machines. They could theoretically "copy" a small AI, like that of a warrior or an immortal, and start producing them. Or more likely just build canopteks.
The Necron navy is so much more avanced than anyone else's it's not funny. A few major Dynasty's fleets in one place could gut Abaddon's entire fleet.
The Necrons are also the only ones with the Naval power to destroy battlefleet solar without obscene losses. They can cause Sol to erupt into a solar storm, frying all communications before reaping the now entirely helpless navy and blasting the navy with chunks of white dwarves and neutron stars launched at near light speed.
Then they can put a Nexus Arrangement to completely cut off the warp across the entire system and kill the Emperor, no longer able to resurrect due to being cut off from his powers. Now that mankind is helpless, the Necrons can dismantle the Imperium in record time and take back the galaxy that was rightfully theirs to begin with.
Once all dynasties and Tomb worlds are awakened no one can really stop the Necrons from achieving complete galactic hegemony.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TiamatRoar wrote: Can necrons actually make NEW warriors or immortals or... any new necrons at all? (not including the automated things like tomb spiders, etc)
It's a matter of making a new shell (easy to do) and copying down a program (which once the soul is removed, is pretty much what you can describe the minds of lesser necrons as being). Some Crypteks may also experiment with making Necrons by biotransferring other species into new shells.
Once all dynasties and Tomb worlds are awakened no one can really stop the Necrons from achieving complete galactic hegemony.
The Tyranids actually compete with the Necrons in a what-if scenario (of the Tyranid full force arriving vs the Necrons' tomb worlds awakening). That's why the Silent King views them as the main reason he needs to awaken and unite the tomb worlds ASAP. At least under some interpretations.
Probably in terms of what-if, the necrons and tyranids are the biggest threat. Though both of their plans would likely come to a significant hurdle or wall if Abaddon's plan of covering the galaxy in Warp comes to fruition, depending on how that works.
Once all dynasties and Tomb worlds are awakened no one can really stop the Necrons from achieving complete galactic hegemony.
The Tyranids actually compete with the Necrons in a what-if scenario (of the Tyranid full force arriving vs the Necrons' tomb worlds awakening). That's why the Silent King views them as the main reason he needs to awaken and unite the tomb worlds ASAP. At least under some interpretations.
Probably in terms of what-if, the necrons and tyranids are the biggest threat. Though both of their plans would likely come to a significant hurdle or wall if Abaddon's plan of covering the galaxy in Warp comes to fruition, depending on how that works.
Have a fleet dop in, activate a Nexus arrangement to shut off the warp for the system, and then rip apart the now helpless Chaos vessels which are now disabled due to relying so much on Daemons and sorcery to run their vessels. Abaddon may be a strong combatant, but if his fleet is vaporized and he's on board he can't do much. And as a solar system sized area is trapped in a psychic black hole that keeps out all warp influence, Abaddon can't be saved by the Gods and if he survives the destruction of his ship, he's stuck floating in space until he dies. Or until a Necron ship wheels around and shoots him as he floats.
Once all dynasties and Tomb worlds are awakened no one can really stop the Necrons from achieving complete galactic hegemony.
The Tyranids actually compete with the Necrons in a what-if scenario (of the Tyranid full force arriving vs the Necrons' tomb worlds awakening). That's why the Silent King views them as the main reason he needs to awaken and unite the tomb worlds ASAP. At least under some interpretations.
Probably in terms of what-if, the necrons and tyranids are the biggest threat. Though both of their plans would likely come to a significant hurdle or wall if Abaddon's plan of covering the galaxy in Warp comes to fruition, depending on how that works.
Have a fleet dop in, activate a Nexus arrangement to shut off the warp for the system, and then rip apart the now helpless Chaos vessels which are now disabled due to relying so much on Daemons and sorcery to run their vessels. Abaddon may be a strong combatant, but if his fleet is vaporized and he's on board he can't do much. And as a solar system sized area is trapped in a psychic black hole that keeps out all warp influence, Abaddon can't be saved by the Gods and if he survives the destruction of his ship, he's stuck floating in space until he dies. Or until a Necron ship wheels around and shoots him as he floats.
Problem solved.
I said "likely come to a significant hurdle or wall if Abaddon's plan of covering the galaxy in Warp comes to fruition". The term "likely" is meant to express a small bit of uncertainty because we don't know exactly how Necron technology works, but generally meant to lean towards that odds are necron technology won't work so well if the material realm is ALREADY enveloped in warp. We already know that necrons and warp generally don't work together (otherwise the necrons would be able to use warp technology. Instead, all their technology relies on keeping the warp out of the material realm in the first place, and that means gak if the material realm is already covered in warp).
Until we see an example of a necron device literally tearing a non-material daemon planet out of the warp and transforming it into a material non-daemon planet, it's generally reasonable enough to assume (not with complete certainty, but enough to take it as probable) that their technology mainly focuses on keeping the warp at bay. Which means little if the warp is already THERE. This is assuming the necrons are even capable of EXISTING in a warp-covered galaxy in the first place.
Granted, that's under the what-if scenario of Abaddon's plan succeeding. Presumably the Necrons would do their best to prevent that, which is why they were fighting Chaos in the 13th Black Crusade in the first place (although granted that's also an assumption given how the story's been moving BACKWARDS lately ).
Certainly, the necrons have the technology to keep the warp (and thus Abaddon's plan) at bay, but at that point, it becomes a question of how MUCH of that technology they have (do they have enough nexuses and tessaracts to pull it off?) and whether or not they have the military assets to defend such things. Again, this is all what-if. And probably will be for a long time because that's the whole POINT of Warhammer 40k players playing the game and having their armies fight each other.
When the Tyranids were laying a siege to the Tau world of Ka'Mais, and the Tau were being slaughtered, the moon of Ka'Mais awakened and turned out to be a Tomb World.
They swiftly exterminated the Tyranids and proceeded to harvest Ka'Mais.
There are said to be "millions" of Necron Tomb Worlds in the galaxy, so in terms of total worlds occupied, they outnumber the Imperium. Though much like the Orks, they are not a united species.
Very interesting. Any numbers on per world Necron numbers? Then we can crunch some. But millions of Tomb Worlds is quite foreboding (depending on aforementioned troop possibilities).
As an aside anyone got any stats on the number of Daemon Worlds in the Galaxy and how many Daemons per World?
Kain wrote: Tiamat, I meant assassinate Abaddon while he's still trying to push for Terra.
Once Abaddon dies, the consensus seems to be that Chaos falls into massive infighting of apocalyptic proportions in the Eye.
Ah. Well, there's a reason why the gods themselves literally declared they won't let him die. In that case, to kill Abaddon would be a game of the Necrons beating the gods' direct plan itself. Which is one that the Necrons have a decent chance of winning but I doubt the gods would go down without a fight (especially with Tzeentch around to anticipate things).
Daemon worlds are a bit difficult to count, since many of them exist either in a mirror dimension to reality (the warp) or some point in between reality and un-reality. Time and space doesn't even have any meaning where some daemon worlds exist so theretically there could be like, 50 daemon worlds in a space the size of the palm of your hand (though I'm unaware of a case in the fluff that's THIS drastic. There is, at least, one daemon world in the Gaunt Ghost books where time passes so fast compared to reality that the place spits out a new generation of humans to fight for Chaos every year or so)
As for Necrons vs Daemons... sadly doesn't come up in the fluff very often. Off the top of my head I vaguely remember at least one fluff battle being mentioned between the two but it was either not very specific or nothing particularly interesting of note stood out about it.
A search at Lexicanum for "Necron Daemon" gave this.
....it's not very informative considering that the daemons caught the necrons with their pants down.
We also know that the Maynarkh dynasty's ridiculously fast conquest was slowed down/stopped (but not defeated) by the forces of Chaos, though odds are most of those were CSM.
Ratius wrote: Hypothetical: How vulnerable are Cron TWs to Daemon incursions? (considering no Psykers / warp presence?)
Null Field Matrices will generally protect Tomb Worlds from Daemons, and they have other technology that is specific to countering the warp. Tome of Fate also mentions that Necrons are pretty much immune to corruption, and manipulation from the Gods. This is one of the Reasons Tzeentch hates them above all else, as they don't "Change"
Generally conflict does not come up often, as Daemons quite literally have nothing to gain from fighting Necrons for the most part.
Overall I believe we can think these races/armies are yet to be at their full power:
Tyranids - only the tendrils of them have reached the Milky Way galaxy and they managed to kill a lot of things just with "scouting forces" Necrons - A fraction of Tomb Worlds started awakening and is already causing a serious problem, especially along the Eastern Sector of the Imperium.
Basically the two races that this thread has been mentioning the most often. In terms of power level, I don't think we can compare Tyranids to Necrons as we are unaware of both of these races' full capability. Of course we have scraps of information (Necrons defeated the C'tan and the Old Ones for example) but that doesn't say much.
As for the Necrons we can assume that they are ridiculously powerful beyond anything Milky Way has currently. They once managed to defeat two God-like races and have enough scientific achievements to exterminate an advanced psychic race in a galaxy-wide war. Defeating anything Milky Way has currently would be a joke to the Silent King if he were to be successful in awakening and uniting all the Tomb Worlds in the galaxy. However, we know that the Silent King has destroyed his Command Protocol.
So to sum things up; are they dangerous? Potentially. Are they a major threat to the galaxy? Not yet.
Currently, they seem to be a major threat to the Eastern Section of the Imperium at the moment but nothing galaxy-wide. Of course Tyranids are the same, they aren't a major threat... yet. However, its only a matter of time before more and more Necron Tomb Worlds start awakening and goes "I see fleshy things.... GET OFF MY LAWN."
Sautekh_The_Silent_King wrote: Everyone who plays 40K knows about Necrons. Who thinks they pose a threat in the 40K universe, and if not, why? I just want to know.
I'd say the GW fluff writers are more of a threat since at any given time they change what has already been put down to suit what story they wish to tell. Look at the C'Tan for example. In the previous codex they were power incarnate with no armor or field to stop their attacks and the motivating power behind the Necrons. This codex, they are Necron versions of the Eldar Avatar. Who knows what Necrons will be like in their next codex in this age of Necrons bro fisting Blood Angels?A bit like DC comics, doncha know.
No need to get worked up by fluff that changes from Codex to codex and between game editions. Next edition they could very well write that Necrons and Tyranids are in league and it was them doing the fist bumping over a dead Blood Angel.
Once you've been around this game any length of time you will find the fluff really doesn't mean a lot between one writer and the next. It gets rewritten quite a bit.
At least for now, with the allies matrix having the Tyranids allied with no one, the current writers at GW seem to agree that the Tyranids are the "kill em all" race. The tyrannids have pretty consistently been this since the beginning with the exception of the Zoats and genestealers (and even then, those two race's end goals was to kill them all, even if the latter didn't realize it).
It's true that the necrons were originally a kill-them-all race and got retconned into not being one. I personally however think this is because GW realized that TWO kill-them-all races was really REALLY redundant. Not sure if GW ever said anything to back that up, however.
Maynark Dyanasty is clearly a nod to the kill-them-all days though, that's for sure (and a nice way to send the message that if you still want to play your necrons as a kill-them-all group, you can.)
Kain wrote: Tiamat, I meant assassinate Abaddon while he's still trying to push for Terra.
Once Abaddon dies, the consensus seems to be that Chaos falls into massive infighting of apocalyptic proportions in the Eye.
Ah. Well, there's a reason why the gods themselves literally declared they won't let him die. In that case, to kill Abaddon would be a game of the Necrons beating the gods' direct plan itself. Which is one that the Necrons have a decent chance of winning but I doubt the gods would go down without a fight (especially with Tzeentch around to anticipate things).
Can the gods protect him in a solar system sized area where the warp has been shut off by a baseball sized device? Especially after he and his ship are reduced to scattered free floating atoms?
Kain wrote: Tiamat, I meant assassinate Abaddon while he's still trying to push for Terra.
Once Abaddon dies, the consensus seems to be that Chaos falls into massive infighting of apocalyptic proportions in the Eye.
Ah. Well, there's a reason why the gods themselves literally declared they won't let him die. In that case, to kill Abaddon would be a game of the Necrons beating the gods' direct plan itself. Which is one that the Necrons have a decent chance of winning but I doubt the gods would go down without a fight (especially with Tzeentch around to anticipate things).
Can the gods protect him in a solar system sized area where the warp has been shut off by a baseball sized device? Especially after he and his ship are reduced to scattered free floating atoms?
Possibly not, but if that's the case,I imagine Tzeentch would anticipate and counter-plan in such a way that the Necrons never get the opportunity to pull that off in the first place.
Kain wrote: Tiamat, I meant assassinate Abaddon while he's still trying to push for Terra.
Once Abaddon dies, the consensus seems to be that Chaos falls into massive infighting of apocalyptic proportions in the Eye.
Ah. Well, there's a reason why the gods themselves literally declared they won't let him die. In that case, to kill Abaddon would be a game of the Necrons beating the gods' direct plan itself. Which is one that the Necrons have a decent chance of winning but I doubt the gods would go down without a fight (especially with Tzeentch around to anticipate things).
Can the gods protect him in a solar system sized area where the warp has been shut off by a baseball sized device? Especially after he and his ship are reduced to scattered free floating atoms?
Possibly not, but if that's the case,I imagine Tzeentch would anticipate and counter-plan in such a way that the Necrons never get the opportunity to pull that off in the first place.
I would say it's a bit more difficult than that, since Necrons have their own version of Divination, with Astromancy. It's much more of a cat and mouse game, and that's only with the direct "Intervention" by Tzeentch.
Even with the Warp backing them, It is still a foolish endeavor of the Highest caliber, to ever engage the Necron Fleet.
Very interesting discussion. I recall reading in the sisters of battle book Hammer and Anvil where they defeated the Necrons by the skin of their teeth, that during the battle the sisters had a shield generator running. Some necrons got within the shield and when they were defeated, their remains tried to phase out but then were stopped up against inside of the shield unable to return to their tomb. Does this not provide the Imperium of Man with a possible counter to Necron regeneration?
And for the overall point of this discussion I do believe that nids and chaos are a greater threat because they cannot be reasoned with. The Necrons could coexist with the other races to a degree. Some Necron Lords might even want to let the other races continue to exist so they could have the sport of fighing them on a regular basis. Nids and Chaos would just destroy everything.
The current Necron Codex intimates that the dimension-hopping abilities of the Necrons is foiled by the reality-warping effects of the daemonic, and against such foes the Necrons are at a significant disadvantage... especially in hyper-dimensions where the daemon is not necessarily restricted to being in a bound form, subject to instability, or worries about such things as "injury", being an immortal creature made from the raw essence of possibility and all.
I would say it's a bit more difficult than that, since Necrons have their own version of Divination, with Astromancy. It's much more of a cat and mouse game, and that's only with the direct "Intervention" by Tzeentch.
Even with the Warp backing them, It is still a foolish endeavor of the Highest caliber, to ever engage the Necron Fleet.
Is there even such a thing as "THE" Necron Fleet? I thought the necrons were broken up into multiple dynasties that were independent of each other. I could be wrong. I'm not that up to date on the current status of Necron space navy details. Which Necron fleet engaged Abaddon in the Black Crusade? (or is there no "revamped Necron" version of that yet? Maybe the version that existed before the revamped necrons didn't have all these crazy new superweapons from the fluff)
Who's controlling each of these Necron super weapons and have they actually started using them to encompass entire solar systems? (and if not, why not? Although I can see why most of them would refrain from the supernova one at leas, but what about the others? I don't recall seeing many fluff stories of necrons dealing with daemons or chaos marines just by shutting them off from the warp but I don't own the Necron codex)
As an aside, if the necrons really ARE that cheesy as some super united "Necron fleet" that can use such super weapons on such a ridiculously massive scale with impunity to seal and defeat the foe that the Imperium dubs "the arch enemy, I'm pretty sure Tzeentch WILL directly intervene in such a situation. The chaos gods aren't going to just sit by if something THAT powerful exists and goes against them. The fact that the chaos gods aren't in a huge panic rallying every single chaos demon and worshiper to unite together against this ridiculous "we seal off entire solar systems from the warp" threat leads me to believe that either the necrons' ability to do this is restricted for some reason (be it logistics, time it takes to pull it off, or just frankly highly exaggerated), or Tzeentch (and honestly probably the other gods, lest they be bugging him about such a ridiculously dangerous threat) knows about something that has Chaos prepared to deal with it.
Dannyevilguy wrote: Very interesting discussion. I recall reading in the sisters of battle book Hammer and Anvil where they defeated the Necrons by the skin of their teeth, that during the battle the sisters had a shield generator running. Some necrons got within the shield and when they were defeated, their remains tried to phase out but then were stopped up against inside of the shield unable to return to their tomb. Does this not provide the Imperium of Man with a possible counter to Necron regeneration?
And for the overall point of this discussion I do believe that nids and chaos are a greater threat because they cannot be reasoned with. The Necrons could coexist with the other races to a degree. Some Necron Lords might even want to let the other races continue to exist so they could have the sport of fighing them on a regular basis. Nids and Chaos would just destroy everything.
Well, not quite. We've seen multiple times that Chaos wants humanity to live. Why? Because they are the most corrupt race. They fight each other, (Khorne) take any chaos spells they can (Tzeench) are easily taken by disease (nurgle) and are easily seduced (slaneesh.) So, in truth they don't want to kill everyone, just make them suffer for all eternity.
Well, the message Chaos gave to several of the primarchs is that they really just want Mankind to embrace Mankind's inherent chaotic nature (and the worship of the chaos gods that come with it). That's one of the reasons why one of the names for Chaos is "The Primordial Truth". Assuming they aren't lying out their ass (which they very well might be), the Chaos Gods possibly sincerely believe Mankind's supposed to be chaotic and should embrace their gods, unlike those jackass eldar that keep rejecting Slaanesh
I would say it's a bit more difficult than that, since Necrons have their own version of Divination, with Astromancy. It's much more of a cat and mouse game, and that's only with the direct "Intervention" by Tzeentch.
Even with the Warp backing them, It is still a foolish endeavor of the Highest caliber, to ever engage the Necron Fleet.
Is there even such a thing as "THE" Necron Fleet? I thought the necrons were broken up into multiple dynasties that were independent of each other. I could be wrong. I'm not that up to date on the current status of Necron space navy details. Which Necron fleet engaged Abaddon in the Black Crusade? (or is there no "revamped Necron" version of that yet? Maybe the version that existed before the revamped necrons didn't have all these crazy new superweapons from the fluff)
Who's controlling each of these Necron super weapons and have they actually started using them to encompass entire solar systems? (and if not, why not? Although I can see why most of them would refrain from the supernova one at leas, but what about the others? I don't recall seeing many fluff stories of necrons dealing with daemons or chaos marines just by shutting them off from the warp but I don't own the Necron codex)
As an aside, if the necrons really ARE that cheesy as some super united "Necron fleet" that can use such super weapons on such a ridiculously massive scale with impunity to seal and defeat the foe that the Imperium dubs "the arch enemy, I'm pretty sure Tzeentch WILL directly intervene in such a situation. The chaos gods aren't going to just sit by if something THAT powerful exists and goes against them. The fact that the chaos gods aren't in a huge panic rallying every single chaos demon and worshiper to unite together against this ridiculous "we seal off entire solar systems from the warp" threat leads me to believe that either the necrons' ability to do this is restricted for some reason (be it logistics, time it takes to pull it off, or just frankly highly exaggerated), or Tzeentch (and honestly probably the other gods, lest they be bugging him about such a ridiculously dangerous threat) knows about something that has Chaos prepared to deal with it.
Tome of Fate basically says that Chaos hates the Necrons because they really can't affect them. Even stating that this is especially true for Tzeentch. Also they don't need a super united fleet because even in pieces it simply outclasses everyone else.
Stonerhino wrote: Tome of Fate[/i] basically says that Chaos hates the Necrons because they really can't affect them. Even stating that this is especially true for Tzeentch. Also they don't need a super united fleet because even in pieces it simply outclasses everyone else.
Neither of those address the context of the question. It's undoubtedly true that the Chaos gods can't corrupt the necrons from within, but battles from without can still be fought. And whether or not the necrons are corruptible (which they aren't) has nothing to do with whether or not Tzeentch can factor them into his plans.
And they do need a super united fleet if they want to pull something off like killing Abaddon. Yes, bits and pieces of their fleet can beat bigger bits and pieces of Abaddon's fleet, but bits and pieces of their fleet can't beat BIGGEST bits and pieces of Abaddon's fleet. Oherwise they would have just snapped their fingers and vaporized Abaddon during the Black Crusade. You have to remember the Necrons DID directly oppose Chaos... or, rather, some did, yet while having a substantial impact, it was hardly the "Chaos pwned Abaddon dead!" outcome that certain posters are posturing in this thread.
The way necron fans are screaming in this thread, you'd think the necrons could just wave a cryptek rod and suddenly the chaos gods are contained in a teeny little box and the necrons own the universe! And again, if they could do something like THAT, the necrons would have done that already (especially since there's already been a major conflict where they got involved. See: The 13th Black Crusade). So clearly there are either some restrictions or logistics that make it at the very best difficult (and at the worse, unfeasible) or something is being highly exaggerated here. Even the Maynark Dynasty's progress was bogged down once Chaos was involved (previously the chaos forces in the sector were just sitting by eating popcorn as the Imperium got pwned) so obviously the necrons, while powerful, aren't THAT ridiculously powerful to the "lolz, we could anhilate Abaddon like he was nothing but a goldfish turd!" point like some posters are touting in this thread.
Entire imperium planets have dissapeared in the Necron's onslaught... They strip flesh and power armour away, scare the eldar shitless.... na, they are just coming for a cup of tea XD
Anyone remember in Warhammer when the 'Great Lord of Chaos who was blessed by them all and sent to destroy mankind' was having the final battle at the gates of Middenheim (someone check on that please) but at the last moments the gods left him to die, taking away all their blessings moments before he was going to break through and take the city
Stonerhino wrote: Tome of Fate[/i] basically says that Chaos hates the Necrons because they really can't affect them. Even stating that this is especially true for Tzeentch. Also they don't need a super united fleet because even in pieces it simply outclasses everyone else.
Neither of those address the context of the question. It's undoubtedly true that the Chaos gods can't corrupt the necrons from within, but battles from without can still be fought. And whether or not the necrons are corruptible (which they aren't) has nothing to do with whether or not Tzeentch can factor them into his plans.
And they do need a super united fleet if they want to pull something off like killing Abaddon. Yes, bits and pieces of their fleet can beat bigger bits and pieces of Abaddon's fleet, but bits and pieces of their fleet can't beat BIGGEST bits and pieces of Abaddon's fleet. Oherwise they would have just snapped their fingers and vaporized Abaddon during the Black Crusade. You have to remember the Necrons DID directly oppose Chaos... or, rather, some did, yet while having a substantial impact, it was hardly the "Chaos pwned Abaddon dead!" outcome that certain posters are posturing in this thread.
The way necron fans are screaming in this thread, you'd think the necrons could just wave a cryptek rod and suddenly the chaos gods are contained in a teeny little box and the necrons own the universe! And again, if they could do something like THAT, the necrons would have done that already (especially since there's already been a major conflict where they got involved. See: The 13th Black Crusade). So clearly there are either some restrictions or logistics that make it at the very best difficult (and at the worse, unfeasible) or something is being highly exaggerated here. Even the Maynark Dynasty's progress was bogged down once Chaos was involved (previously the chaos forces in the sector were just sitting by eating popcorn as the Imperium got pwned) so obviously the necrons, while powerful, aren't THAT ridiculously powerful to the "lolz, we could anhilate Abaddon like he was nothing but a goldfish turd!" point like some posters are touting in this thread.
"Have not done it yet" and "Can't do it" are two completely different things. There are many reason why Abadon did not run into a Necron fleet capable of destroying him. Plot armor being the biggest. You can't have Chaos' big bad getting easily slapped around like that.
look at the fleet matchup in AI12. The Necrons where outnumbered 4 to one. With smaller ships. But in two attack runs destroyed 90% of the Imperial fleet. Abaddon did not do that much damage to Gothic Sector's fleet in the entirety of the war. Then you have the World Engine taking on an entire Segmentum fleet backed up by several Space Marine strike forces.
The idea that the Necrons would need to unit their entire race's fleets to stand a chance against Abaddon is just crazy. The entire combined Necron fleet would steam roll the entire combined Human fleet. Yes IoM Navy + every pirate, Rogue Trader and Chaos Fleet combined.
Don't fool yourself. In a vaccum a "United" Necrons are far more of a threat then Chaos ever will be. And if you were to put the two against each other. The only chance Chaos would have is if the Gods themselves came into the Material World and fought. But then that would not be the first time the Necrons have had to fight "Gods". If the past is any indication. Then I would not put my money on the "Gods" this time either.
Don't fool yourself. In a vaccum a "United" Necrons are far more of a threat then Chaos ever will be. And if you were to put the two against each other. The only chance Chaos would have is if the Gods themselves came into the Material World and fought. But then that would not be the first time the Necrons have had to fight "Gods". If the past is any indication. Then I would not put my money on the "Gods" this time either.
The original point (or at least, the original question that suspected the point) was that they AREN'T united. People keep referring to "The Necron Fleet" in this thread and bringing up scenarios which assume the fleet's united. But it's not. Really, at the very least, pro-necron posters should have included a "If the necrons were united" disclaimer, but they don't seem inclined to do that.
Granted, if the necrons do fully wake-up and are fully united (and at least one special character, the Silent King, aims to do that), things could change. However, to achieve this goal, it's a race against time (to do so either before the full Tyranid force arrives, or before Abaddon's plan succeeds). Which is another disclaimer that pro-necron posters in this thread keep failing to bring up.
Yes, if the necrons all wake up and fully unite, they can beat everyone. But the Tyranids can beat everyone if the hive fleet arrives first. And Chaos can beat everyone if Abaddon's plans succeed first. The way most posters in this thread are posting though, they are completely ignoring those factors and acting as if a necron victory is not just completely guaranteed, but also an easy curb stomp battle. And it's NOT, until the necrons manage to fully unite and wake-up (which, again, is a race to do so before the Tyranids or Chaos succeed in their own plans)
The entire point of the newer fluff breaking up the "United Necron race". Was to give the other races a chance. Otherwise it is just a slow game over with the Necrons winning. Which is not a good thing.
While Chaos' big bad is Abaddon. Chaos is not united. The closest race we have to being fully united is the Tyranids and even they have fluff that suggests that they are a smaller threat then they appear. (Same as the Necron being ununited = hope, in game).
***And it does not change the fact that in a single engagement a single Dynasty destroyed more ships then Abaddon had in his own fleet (not the entire Chaos fleet) during the 13th Black Crusade. And that Dynasty's fleet was outnumbered 4 to 1.
The point of "The Necrons are not united" just falls flat because at this point in time they don't need to be. Hell they don't even need to all be awake and they are one of the biggest threats in the current setting.
Also just for information when most people say "Necron fleet" they are not refering to a united Necron fleet but instead just aspects of the spaceships used by Necrons in general. It would be the same as if one was to talk about the maneuverability of the "Eldar fleet". It has nothing to do with the Eldar having a fully united racial fleet.
The point of "The Necrons are not united" just falls flat because at this point in time they don't need to be. Hell they don't even need to all be awake and they are one of the biggest threats in the current setting.
This depends on where your goalposts are. If we're talking about the original post in regards to whether they're a threat at all or not, then yes, the necrons have more than enough to register on the threat radar right now.
If we're talking about the idea that the necrons could curbstomp Chaos even with just their current un-united fleet, however, which is what a lot of posters seem to be implying, no, they can't. That "4 to 1 odds" dynasty fleet (I assume you're talkinga bout hte Maynarkh dynasty?) might have did a good job of wtfpwning the Orpheus sector, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still just a sector and is now currently bogged down by Chaos, of all things, and not even Chaos' main 13th Black Crusade fleet. "Bogged down" does not mean "lose" or even "losing", but that doesn't change the fact that the idea that the necrons in their current form could easily destroy Abaddon when they were brought to a halt by a different chaos group shows that, no, they can't destroy Abaddon THAT easily.
Also, Chaos in general isn't particularly united but they ARE united once Abaddon gets things together (well, enough of them that the Imperium was forced to bring together its biggest mobilization since the Horus Heresy, at least). Which presumably he (and the gods, who declared they will back him up and will not let him die) would if a bunch of necrons moved to destroy him (which, again, is why I'm trying to refute they could right now because so many posters seem to enjoy implying the necrons could easily pull it off).
In their current state, the only chance the necrons have of killing Abaddon is if they catch him with his pants down. And Tzeentch isn't going to let that happen.
The point of "The Necrons are not united" just falls flat because at this point in time they don't need to be. Hell they don't even need to all be awake and they are one of the biggest threats in the current setting.
This depends on where your goalposts are. If we're talking about the original post in regards to whether they're a threat at all or not, then yes, the necrons have more than enough to register on the threat radar right now.
If we're talking about the idea that the necrons could curbstomp Chaos even with just their current un-united fleet, however, which is what a lot of posters seem to be implying, no, they can't. That "4 to 1 odds" dynasty fleet (I assume you're talkinga bout hte Maynarkh dynasty?) might have did a good job of wtfpwning the Orpheus sector, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still just a sector and is now currently bogged down by Chaos, of all things, and not even Chaos' main 13th Black Crusade fleet. "Bogged down" does not mean "lose" or even "losing", but that doesn't change the fact that the idea that the necrons in their current form could easily destroy Abaddon when they were brought to a halt by a different chaos group shows that, no, they can't destroy Abaddon THAT easily.
Also, Chaos in general isn't particularly united but they ARE united once Abaddon gets things together (well, enough of them that the Imperium was forced to bring together its biggest mobilization since the Horus Heresy, at least). Which presumably he (and the gods, who declared they will back him up and will not let him die) would if a bunch of necrons moved to destroy him (which, again, is why I'm trying to refute they could right now because so many posters seem to enjoy implying the necrons could easily pull it off).
In their current state, the only chance the necrons have of killing Abaddon is if they catch him with his pants down. And Tzeentch isn't going to let that happen.
Fair, fair point, but let's put it this way. The Triach was made to unite the necrons and thus far has done a lot- as well as that, Imotekh the Stormlord has legions of Immortals as his bodyguard. Truth is, is that they can and will unite to reverse the one thing they unites for... they all yearn to be mortal, and when the day comes, they will decide to do exactly that. Or Imotekh takes over. But NEVER presume the necrons won't unite, because they can and they will eventually. Necrons are entirely tactical with little emotion and will figure out one day they need to unite... and when that day comes, the necrons shall rule supreme.
The point of "The Necrons are not united" just falls flat because at this point in time they don't need to be. Hell they don't even need to all be awake and they are one of the biggest threats in the current setting.
This depends on where your goalposts are. If we're talking about the original post in regards to whether they're a threat at all or not, then yes, the necrons have more than enough to register on the threat radar right now.
If we're talking about the idea that the necrons could curbstomp Chaos even with just their current un-united fleet, however, which is what a lot of posters seem to be implying, no, they can't. That "4 to 1 odds" dynasty fleet (I assume you're talkinga bout hte Maynarkh dynasty?) might have did a good job of wtfpwning the Orpheus sector, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still just a sector and is now currently bogged down by Chaos, of all things, and not even Chaos' main 13th Black Crusade fleet. "Bogged down" does not mean "lose" or even "losing", but that doesn't change the fact that the idea that the necrons in their current form could easily destroy Abaddon when they were brought to a halt by a different chaos group shows that, no, they can't destroy Abaddon THAT easily.
Also, Chaos in general isn't particularly united but they ARE united once Abaddon gets things together (well, enough of them that the Imperium was forced to bring together its biggest mobilization since the Horus Heresy, at least). Which presumably he (and the gods, who declared they will back him up and will not let him die) would if a bunch of necrons moved to destroy him (which, again, is why I'm trying to refute they could right now because so many posters seem to enjoy implying the necrons could easily pull it off).
In their current state, the only chance the necrons have of killing Abaddon is if they catch him with his pants down. And Tzeentch isn't going to let that happen.
Fair, fair point, but let's put it this way. The Triach was made to unite the necrons and thus far has done a lot- as well as that, Imotekh the Stormlord has legions of Immortals as his bodyguard. Truth is, is that they can and will unite to reverse the one thing they unites for... they all yearn to be mortal, and when the day comes, they will decide to do exactly that. Or Imotekh takes over. But NEVER presume the necrons won't unite, because they can and they will eventually. Necrons are entirely tactical with little emotion and will figure out one day they need to unite... and when that day comes, the necrons shall rule supreme.
Except that most of the Overlords are vain megalomaniacs. Even if the Necrons were able to pull together to mount a massive assault on the forces of Chaos to deprive Chaos of its primary weapons (or later oppose the Tyranids), how long do you think it would be before someone starts backstabbing? The only hope they really have is to re-create the loyalty protocols and have the whole Necron race hardwired to serve a single authority again... and what are the odds of the various Overlords letting someone get away with that?
In many ways, the Necrons seem to suffer from the same long-term weakness as the Orks; a lack of lasting unity.
Well, I doubt the Silent King will re-create the protocols. He destroyed those things in the first place for a reason after all.
In terms of whether or not all the necrons will unite and awaken (they still have to fully awaken eveyrone, too, after all), I imagine it'll happen at the same time the Tyranids arrive and just as Abaddon's plan to envelop the galaxy in Warp starts taking motion. Why? Narrative reasons, of course. If the necrons unite, Abaddon's plan succeeds, or the Tyranids arrive all before the other two happen, that faction will curbstomp everyone else and we won't have a story anymore. So in order for any of the three occurrences to happen, they all have to happen at around the same time.
At the same time, the Primarchs will awaken and Grazgkull will unite the orks. Thus status quo is maintained! Except on a grander level.
Eldar and Tau would probably help the Imperium (or hide behind them) if that ever happens while Dark Eldar just operate as normal.
....any of those cases happening would require GW advancing the storyline, though-_-
I do think fully awakened and united Necrons would beat the full Tyrannid force, personally. However, I'd also give that lower odds of happening in the first place because we aren't even sure how many tomb worlds are in working condition right now. For narrative reasons, odds are most, but not all, necrons will be awakened by the time the tyranids arrive (and Abaddon's plan wouldn't have finished yet because once his plan finishes, it's pretty much game over for everyone else. However, it will have progressed far enough tha big chunks of the galaxy are covered in warp that the necrons can't touch, as well as home to daemons that could fight the necron forces).
The point of "The Necrons are not united" just falls flat because at this point in time they don't need to be. Hell they don't even need to all be awake and they are one of the biggest threats in the current setting.
This depends on where your goalposts are. If we're talking about the original post in regards to whether they're a threat at all or not, then yes, the necrons have more than enough to register on the threat radar right now.
If we're talking about the idea that the necrons could curbstomp Chaos even with just their current un-united fleet, however, which is what a lot of posters seem to be implying, no, they can't. That "4 to 1 odds" dynasty fleet (I assume you're talkinga bout hte Maynarkh dynasty?) might have did a good job of wtfpwning the Orpheus sector, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still just a sector and is now currently bogged down by Chaos, of all things, and not even Chaos' main 13th Black Crusade fleet. "Bogged down" does not mean "lose" or even "losing", but that doesn't change the fact that the idea that the necrons in their current form could easily destroy Abaddon when they were brought to a halt by a different chaos group shows that, no, they can't destroy Abaddon THAT easily.
The navel forces that the Orpheus sector had vs the Maynarkh's fleet was equal if not greater then the "The Grand Fleet of Abaddon the Despoiler" during the 13th Black Crusade. As listed in codex Eye of Terror. And Orpheus lost 90% of that fleet in a relatively short engagement. So all the Necrons would need to destroy Abaddon is to find his fleet with him leading it. That and not have Abaddon run with his tail between his legs. But to be realistic that will never happen because GW will never have a fight like that happen.
TiamatRoar wrote: Also, Chaos in general isn't particularly united but they ARE united once Abaddon gets things together (well, enough of them that the Imperium was forced to bring together its biggest mobilization since the Horus Heresy, at least). Which presumably he (and the gods, who declared they will back him up and will not let him die) would if a bunch of necrons moved to destroy him (which, again, is why I'm trying to refute they could right now because so many posters seem to enjoy implying the necrons could easily pull it off).
In their current state, the only chance the necrons have of killing Abaddon is if they catch him with his pants down. And Tzeentch isn't going to let that happen.
The only chance the Necrons have of killing Abaddon is to catch him with his plot armor in the cleaners. Because the Necrons have been shown and even in their un-united state to have all the tools needed to get that job done.
Looks like 
Its a universe of possibilities, thus offered to us to come to play. Not a inevitable fate to make everything pointless.
).
