Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Necrons are dangerous because they're robotic old men with super guns wanting the young people to get off their lawns.

 WarAngel wrote:
Necrons are dangerous because they're robotic old men with super guns wanting the young people to get off their lawns.

Not exactly. They are the immortal beings made of metal, back to conquer that galaxy that was once theirs, but they lost when after the fight with the C'tan left them in tatters and thus they went into the Great Sleep to avoid being killed by the eldar, and just want back what they think is rightfully theirs. Many are no more than robots, for they were stripped of intelligence and soul, programmed to battle for the sentient yet soulless Overlords.

 Grimskul wrote:
Er....I have to agree this topic is far too broad and redundant considering the other Necron topic going on right now. I think the fact that they are a faction makes them a threat in some way, especially with something like the Celestial Orrery.

Yeah the Orrery alone makes them the most powerful force in the galaxy... hands down.

"Tyranids invading? Let me just hit this easy button. There. 1000000000 billion bugs dead. Send some immortals to clean up the mess."

 Grey Knight Dillon wrote:

I am not calling Necrons weak I am just saying that they are not as "mighty" as the Tyranids or Chaos Daemons.

Humor me and find an instance of the Tyranids defeating the Necrons that didn't involve attacking a Tomb World in stasis.

The bugs have been consistently wiped out every time they have crossed paths with the Egyptian terminators.

Nah the Necrons are not dangerous... uh they ar THE biggest threat together with Nids.

Their power lvl is beyond imagination, only kept in reasonable check because they haven't awakened to full force, half of them become dumb or mad and only a few brilliant minds (like Immothek) are getting their acts together.

If the High King would take matters into hand personally i fear the galaxy would be swept in a serious fast pace, altough he is now more concerned with the threat the Tyranids pose.

Although Necrons are not hellbent on destroying all life, utter enslavement would be the destiny of Galaxy.

The bugs have been consistently wiped out every time they have crossed paths with the Egyptian terminators.

Sources on this VD?

 Sautekh_The_Silent_King wrote:

 WarAngel wrote:
Necrons are dangerous because they're robotic old men with super guns wanting the young people to get off their lawns.

Not exactly. They are the immortal beings made of metal, back to conquer that galaxy that was once theirs, but they lost when after the fight with the C'tan left them in tatters and thus they went into the Great Sleep to avoid being killed by the eldar, and just want back what they think is rightfully theirs. Many are no more than robots, for they were stripped of intelligence and soul, programmed to battle for the sentient yet soulless Overlords.

So old crotchety robots who want all the younger races to get off their lawns then.

Or Benders. A whole race of them.

 Valek wrote:
Nah the Necrons are not dangerous... uh they ar THE biggest threat together with Nids.

Their power lvl is beyond imagination, only kept in reasonable check because they haven't awakened to full force, half of them become dumb or mad and only a few brilliant minds (like Immothek) are getting their acts together.

If the High King would take matters into hand personally i fear the galaxy would be swept in a serious fast pace, altough he is now more concerned with the threat the Tyranids pose.

Although Necrons are not hellbent on destroying all life, utter enslavement would be the destiny of Galaxy.

I would put a fully awaken Necron force between the tyranids and chaos daemon with the daemons being above them. In page 85 of the cron codex, in the strange sciences section. It stats to the daemons of the warp, they are just another flavour of existence to be corrupted and devoured.

 Ratius wrote:
Sources on this VD?

Literally every engagement between the two?

When the Tyranids were laying a siege to the Tau world of Ka'Mais, and the Tau were being slaughtered, the moon of Ka'Mais awakened and turned out to be a Tomb World.

They swiftly exterminated the Tyranids and proceeded to harvest Ka'Mais.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Or Benders. A whole race of them.

Love it. Now we need one with a beer bottle as a Resurrection Orb and a Cigar..

The fluff has constantly stated that the number of dormant tombworlds, as well as WORKING dormant tombworlds, is unknown.

Therefore, POTENTIALLY, the necrons could be the biggest threat to mankind if enough tombworlds existed. However, the fluff is purposefully ambiguous on this and outright STATES that this factor is unknown. Due to this, we will not know how much a threat the necrons TRUE potential is (or, if you will, there is no true potential. This is basically a case of the "canon" literally saying there is no canon true potential. It's up to you, the player, to make up in your headcanon how many tombworlds are actually out there if you're so inclined).

An individual dynasty like the Maynarkh dynasty is a threat to an entire sector. However, without knowing how many other Maynarkh dynasties exist, you can't say for sure how much a threat it is to the Imperium. Pretty much the sky is the limit in this case.

At most, you can say how much a threat the necrons are to the Imperium "at the very least". We don't know how much a threat they are at "the very most", but we do have an idea of how much a threat they are "at the very least". (IE, established fluff of known tombworlds in existence)

If I had to guess, I'd rank it like this:

1. Chaos. Easy one. Chaos definitely has the highest MINIMUM "at the very least" threat amount to the Imperium. The 13th Black Crusade is explicitly stated to be the largest mobilization of Imperium forces since the Great Crusade. Tyranids and Necrons could POTENTIALLY do more than that, but going by "at the very least", Chaos wins cause they actually ARE doing that. Going by "at the most", however, and it's more up in the air.

(note: the next 3 could be a three-way tie. I haven't actually tallied up everything and am only going by gut feeling and "off the top of my head" instinct)

2. Tyranids. Of note is that the Silent King views Tyranids as the greatest threat and thus something the necrons must unite behind. Again, I must disclaim this is "at the very least". At "the very most", the Tyranids could potentially force the Imperium to mobilize every single human being IN EXISTANCE in order to fight it off. However, that's in-universe speculation. Still, sticking to "at the very least", the Tyranids have done a LOT.

2. Orks. The Beast threatened the life of the Imperium when the orks united. There's nothing to say they won't ever do that again. Definitely, at the very least, the orks are a huge threat to the Imperium, but whether or not they become that threat today and how much is a "What if" (it's a "What if" that's proven to be possible and done before, as shown by the Beast, but still a "what-if" in the present day)

2. Necrons. Destroying and conquering entire sectors in a ridiculously short amount of time. I'm pretty sure the amount of sectors and planets they destroyed in the fluff is more than most other xenos besides orks and tyrannids.

Of the three, I'd probably put necrons at the bottom when it comes to threat "at the least", Most of the necrons is still "potential" and "what-if" rather than anything that actually exists right now. However, their "potential" and "what-if" is fast becoming "actual", if IA 12 is any indication. When it comes to threat "at the most", however, they're right up top with the other 3. Possibly even more, with the exception of the tyranids (pretty hard to beat the nid's "Force the Imperium to mobilize every human in existence" potential). This is possibly deliberate, given that the Silent King wants to unite the Necrons and awaken the tomb worlds specifically to fight the Tyranids. IE, in the Silent King's eyes, WH4Xk (the "X" there is to represent the future) is "Necrons vs Tyranids, with all those other guys who are just speed bumps in the big picture of things". I'll still file it under "at the most" potential instead of "at the least" because no one knows how many Tomb Worlds are still in working condition.



And then you have all those other guys who are basically reduced to piracy or scattered remnants (Eldar, Dark Eldar) or mostly spared (Tau) cause the Imperium is too busy dealing with the big 4 (Chaos, Tyranids, Orks, Necrons).

Fun sidenote: At least according to the summaries of IA12 in Lexicanum, the Maynarkh dyanasty's progress was finally slowed down because the Chaos guys in the area decided to get involved. (that doesn't mean they're stronger or weaker. Just that it goes to show they're capable of fighting the Maynarkh dynasty once they're done eating popcorn)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, necrons and tyranids do not share the same goal, for those who keep saying that. They've been shown to consistently destroy each other (with the necrons usually winning) whenever the tyrannids appear. Heck, necrons actually save or fight alongside other races when it comes to tyranids. (like the Tau, where the necrons destroyed the tyranids first before harvesting the tau. Or like the Blood Angels, where the necrons and blood angels not only teamed up against the tyranids, but even decided to let each other leave afterwards).

And the Silent King's stated goal is to get the necrons to unite against the nids.

Post Fri, 02/Aug/2013 07:48:56 PM Subject: Re:Are the Necrons dangerous?

Ratius wrote:
Sources on this VD?



Literally every engagement between the two?

When the Tyranids were laying a siege to the Tau world of Ka'Mais, and the Tau were being slaughtered, the moon of Ka'Mais awakened and turned out to be a Tomb World.

They swiftly exterminated the Tyranids and proceeded to harvest Ka'Mais.

Or -admittedly - hypothetical.....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/539436.page


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necron Numbers?

There are said to be "millions" of Necron Tomb Worlds in the galaxy, so in terms of total worlds occupied, they outnumber the Imperium. Though much like the Orks, they are not a united species.

That, and the fact they are machines. They could theoretically "copy" a small AI, like that of a warrior or an immortal, and start producing them. Or more likely just build canopteks.

Can necrons actually make NEW warriors or immortals or... any new necrons at all? (not including the automated things like tomb spiders, etc)

The Necron navy is so much more avanced than anyone else's it's not funny. A few major Dynasty's fleets in one place could gut Abaddon's entire fleet.

The Necrons are also the only ones with the Naval power to destroy battlefleet solar without obscene losses. They can cause Sol to erupt into a solar storm, frying all communications before reaping the now entirely helpless navy and blasting the navy with chunks of white dwarves and neutron stars launched at near light speed.

Then they can put a Nexus Arrangement to completely cut off the warp across the entire system and kill the Emperor, no longer able to resurrect due to being cut off from his powers. Now that mankind is helpless, the Necrons can dismantle the Imperium in record time and take back the galaxy that was rightfully theirs to begin with.

Once all dynasties and Tomb worlds are awakened no one can really stop the Necrons from achieving complete galactic hegemony.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TiamatRoar wrote:
Can necrons actually make NEW warriors or immortals or... any new necrons at all? (not including the automated things like tomb spiders, etc)

It's a matter of making a new shell (easy to do) and copying down a program (which once the soul is removed, is pretty much what you can describe the minds of lesser necrons as being). Some Crypteks may also experiment with making Necrons by biotransferring other species into new shells.

 Kain wrote:

Once all dynasties and Tomb worlds are awakened no one can really stop the Necrons from achieving complete galactic hegemony.

The Tyranids actually compete with the Necrons in a what-if scenario (of the Tyranid full force arriving vs the Necrons' tomb worlds awakening). That's why the Silent King views them as the main reason he needs to awaken and unite the tomb worlds ASAP. At least under some interpretations.

Probably in terms of what-if, the necrons and tyranids are the biggest threat. Though both of their plans would likely come to a significant hurdle or wall if Abaddon's plan of covering the galaxy in Warp comes to fruition, depending on how that works.

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Once all dynasties and Tomb worlds are awakened no one can really stop the Necrons from achieving complete galactic hegemony.

The Tyranids actually compete with the Necrons in a what-if scenario (of the Tyranid full force arriving vs the Necrons' tomb worlds awakening). That's why the Silent King views them as the main reason he needs to awaken and unite the tomb worlds ASAP. At least under some interpretations.

Probably in terms of what-if, the necrons and tyranids are the biggest threat. Though both of their plans would likely come to a significant hurdle or wall if Abaddon's plan of covering the galaxy in Warp comes to fruition, depending on how that works.

Have a fleet dop in, activate a Nexus arrangement to shut off the warp for the system, and then rip apart the now helpless Chaos vessels which are now disabled due to relying so much on Daemons and sorcery to run their vessels. Abaddon may be a strong combatant, but if his fleet is vaporized and he's on board he can't do much. And as a solar system sized area is trapped in a psychic black hole that keeps out all warp influence, Abaddon can't be saved by the Gods and if he survives the destruction of his ship, he's stuck floating in space until he dies. Or until a Necron ship wheels around and shoots him as he floats.

Problem solved.

If he turns the galaxy into an Eye of Terror the Tyranids and Necrons wouldn't be capable of doing gak about it, lol.

 Kain wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Once all dynasties and Tomb worlds are awakened no one can really stop the Necrons from achieving complete galactic hegemony.

The Tyranids actually compete with the Necrons in a what-if scenario (of the Tyranid full force arriving vs the Necrons' tomb worlds awakening). That's why the Silent King views them as the main reason he needs to awaken and unite the tomb worlds ASAP. At least under some interpretations.

Probably in terms of what-if, the necrons and tyranids are the biggest threat. Though both of their plans would likely come to a significant hurdle or wall if Abaddon's plan of covering the galaxy in Warp comes to fruition, depending on how that works.

Have a fleet dop in, activate a Nexus arrangement to shut off the warp for the system, and then rip apart the now helpless Chaos vessels which are now disabled due to relying so much on Daemons and sorcery to run their vessels. Abaddon may be a strong combatant, but if his fleet is vaporized and he's on board he can't do much. And as a solar system sized area is trapped in a psychic black hole that keeps out all warp influence, Abaddon can't be saved by the Gods and if he survives the destruction of his ship, he's stuck floating in space until he dies. Or until a Necron ship wheels around and shoots him as he floats.

Problem solved.

I said "likely come to a significant hurdle or wall if Abaddon's plan of covering the galaxy in Warp comes to fruition". The term "likely" is meant to express a small bit of uncertainty because we don't know exactly how Necron technology works, but generally meant to lean towards that odds are necron technology won't work so well if the material realm is ALREADY enveloped in warp. We already know that necrons and warp generally don't work together (otherwise the necrons would be able to use warp technology. Instead, all their technology relies on keeping the warp out of the material realm in the first place, and that means gak if the material realm is already covered in warp).

Until we see an example of a necron device literally tearing a non-material daemon planet out of the warp and transforming it into a material non-daemon planet, it's generally reasonable enough to assume (not with complete certainty, but enough to take it as probable) that their technology mainly focuses on keeping the warp at bay. Which means little if the warp is already THERE. This is assuming the necrons are even capable of EXISTING in a warp-covered galaxy in the first place.

Granted, that's under the what-if scenario of Abaddon's plan succeeding. Presumably the Necrons would do their best to prevent that, which is why they were fighting Chaos in the 13th Black Crusade in the first place (although granted that's also an assumption given how the story's been moving BACKWARDS lately ).

Certainly, the necrons have the technology to keep the warp (and thus Abaddon's plan) at bay, but at that point, it becomes a question of how MUCH of that technology they have (do they have enough nexuses and tessaracts to pull it off?) and whether or not they have the military assets to defend such things. Again, this is all what-if. And probably will be for a long time because that's the whole POINT of Warhammer 40k players playing the game and having their armies fight each other.

Very interesting. Any numbers on per world Necron numbers? Then we can crunch some. But millions of Tomb Worlds is quite foreboding (depending on aforementioned troop possibilities).


As an aside anyone got any stats on the number of Daemon Worlds in the Galaxy and how many Daemons per World?

Tiamat, I meant assassinate Abaddon while he's still trying to push for Terra.

Once Abaddon dies, the consensus seems to be that Chaos falls into massive infighting of apocalyptic proportions in the Eye.

 Kain wrote:
Tiamat, I meant assassinate Abaddon while he's still trying to push for Terra.

Once Abaddon dies, the consensus seems to be that Chaos falls into massive infighting of apocalyptic proportions in the Eye.

Ah. Well, there's a reason why the gods themselves literally declared they won't let him die. In that case, to kill Abaddon would be a game of the Necrons beating the gods' direct plan itself. Which is one that the Necrons have a decent chance of winning but I doubt the gods would go down without a fight (especially with Tzeentch around to anticipate things).

Hypothetical: How vulnerable are Cron TWs to Daemon incursions? (considering no Psykers / warp presence?)

Daemon worlds are a bit difficult to count, since many of them exist either in a mirror dimension to reality (the warp) or some point in between reality and un-reality. Time and space doesn't even have any meaning where some daemon worlds exist so theretically there could be like, 50 daemon worlds in a space the size of the palm of your hand (though I'm unaware of a case in the fluff that's THIS drastic. There is, at least, one daemon world in the Gaunt Ghost books where time passes so fast compared to reality that the place spits out a new generation of humans to fight for Chaos every year or so)

As for Necrons vs Daemons... sadly doesn't come up in the fluff very often. Off the top of my head I vaguely remember at least one fluff battle being mentioned between the two but it was either not very specific or nothing particularly interesting of note stood out about it.

A search at Lexicanum for "Necron Daemon" gave this.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Corewar


....it's not very informative considering that the daemons caught the necrons with their pants down.

We also know that the Maynarkh dynasty's ridiculously fast conquest was slowed down/stopped (but not defeated) by the forces of Chaos, though odds are most of those were CSM.

 Ratius wrote:
Hypothetical: How vulnerable are Cron TWs to Daemon incursions? (considering no Psykers / warp presence?)

Null Field Matrices will generally protect Tomb Worlds from Daemons, and they have other technology that is specific to countering the warp. Tome of Fate also mentions that Necrons are pretty much immune to corruption, and manipulation from the Gods. This is one of the Reasons Tzeentch hates them above all else, as they don't "Change"

Generally conflict does not come up often, as Daemons quite literally have nothing to gain from fighting Necrons for the most part.

Overall I believe we can think these races/armies are yet to be at their full power:


Tyranids - only the tendrils of them have reached the Milky Way galaxy and they managed to kill a lot of things just with "scouting forces"
Necrons - A fraction of Tomb Worlds started awakening and is already causing a serious problem, especially along the Eastern Sector of the Imperium.


Basically the two races that this thread has been mentioning the most often. In terms of power level, I don't think we can compare Tyranids to Necrons as we are unaware of both of these races' full capability. Of course we have scraps of information (Necrons defeated the C'tan and the Old Ones for example) but that doesn't say much.

As for the Necrons we can assume that they are ridiculously powerful beyond anything Milky Way has currently. They once managed to defeat two God-like races and have enough scientific achievements to exterminate an advanced psychic race in a galaxy-wide war. Defeating anything Milky Way has currently would be a joke to the Silent King if he were to be successful in awakening and uniting all the Tomb Worlds in the galaxy. However, we know that the Silent King has destroyed his Command Protocol.

So to sum things up; are they dangerous? Potentially. Are they a major threat to the galaxy? Not yet.

Currently, they seem to be a major threat to the Eastern Section of the Imperium at the moment but nothing galaxy-wide. Of course Tyranids are the same, they aren't a major threat... yet. However, its only a matter of time before more and more Necron Tomb Worlds start awakening and goes "I see fleshy things.... GET OFF MY LAWN."

 Sautekh_The_Silent_King wrote:
Everyone who plays 40K knows about Necrons. Who thinks they pose a threat in the 40K universe, and if not, why? I just want to know.

I'd say the GW fluff writers are more of a threat since at any given time they change what has already been put down to suit what story they wish to tell. Look at the C'Tan for example. In the previous codex they were power incarnate with no armor or field to stop their attacks and the motivating power behind the Necrons. This codex, they are Necron versions of the Eldar Avatar. Who knows what Necrons will be like in their next codex in this age of Necrons bro fisting Blood Angels?A bit like DC comics, doncha know.

Immortal, mindless killing robots, led by corporeal, actual gods, some even mighty enough to instill fear in an entire Tyranid Hive Fleet.

"Make Space Marines pee in their pants"-dangerous.

No need to get worked up by fluff that changes from Codex to codex and between game editions. Next edition they could very well write that Necrons and Tyranids are in league and it was them doing the fist bumping over a dead Blood Angel.
Once you've been around this game any length of time you will find the fluff really doesn't mean a lot between one writer and the next. It gets rewritten quite a bit.