Hey,

After my first victory (I'm a beginner) with my orks (yay!) against eldar at 500pts my friend wanted revenge using his necron and upping the points to 1000pts.

I went with lots of footslogging boyz vs eldar and it worked well but he said he will just take long range 72" doomsday cannon s10 ap1 with large blast and target my lootas and boyz squads so that I'm not able to get into melee or do ranged damage.

This has made me think about my strategy as I will struggle to get to his 72" cannon especially if we are on a long table rather than short and if I do get to it I will only have rokkits against av14 which isn't promising and i have a lot less range than him.

My thinking was to get close fast with no foot slogging to throw my pals tactics off and max my chances of a win.

I came up with this list

Big Mek (95pts)
Cybork body,
Kustom force field

5 Lootas (75pts)

10x Shoota Boyz (121pts)
1x Nob, BP & Big Choppa
Trukk

11x Shoota Boyz (127pts)
1x Nob, BP & Big Choppa
Trukk

11x Shoota Boyz (127pts)
1x Nob, BP & Big Choppa
Trukk

11x Shoota Boyz (127pts)
Nob, BP & Big Choppa
Trukk

Deffkopta (60pts)
Twin-linked rokkit launcha
Big Bomm

6x Warbiker (215pts)
1x Warbiker Nob

Big Gunz kannon (46pts)
2x Ammo Runt

With this list I intend on bombing bikes and trukks forward to get as many boyz up the table as I can as quickly as possible whilst hopefully keeping out of line of site of his 72" cannons and the get into melee turn two hopefully.

Kannons will pepper anything he brings forwards like command barge along with my lootas.

Deffkopta is taken as a suicide unit to drop a big bomm onto his scarabs to help save my trukks (a bit)

I know he will most likely use the following

Any thing with large blast and range to take out my lootas and boyz and...

His list will most likely include

Obryon
Zandrek/lord
Annihilation or command barge
Scarabs
20 warriors
5-10 immortals
3 heavy destroyers
Maybe wraiths and lychguard proxys
Doomsday ark

Can you guys give me some tips on my list and any lists you have used against necron that have been successful?

The only other thing I can thing is to go more bikes and loose everything else but I will have to proxy.

I'm just concerned I don't have the range to take out his big hitting long range units any tips on how to deal with them?

Finger crossed for night fighting!!!

Thanks v much

Perhaps a FW big trakk supa kannon would even the range game? Anyone had any luck with these?

Take away the stationary units and replace them with nob bikers so you can get into cc quickly and destroy every thing

he will just take long range 72" doomsday cannon s10 ap1 with large blast

Welcome to 40k mate. Also, note that it's S9, which means no ID for a Warboss or Nob Biker.

Don't rely on LoS Blocking terrain to stop that gun, because unless your playing with way more terrain than most (which you should), simply put every point on the board is gonna be visible to 90% of the rest of the board. If at all possible though, get as much of that stuff on the board as you can because its a real game changer (for the better).. Insist on it, put it there and tell him to "make you" take it off, because in my experience the type of player who takes this is often the type who will try to give themselves the advantage with whats pretty much a blank space for a table. Take full advantage of the proper terrain placement rules, with the "you place one I place one" rule and try your best to stagger several big pieces of terrain across the board or at least, something to give you a puny 5+ cover save.

Perhaps a FW big trakk supa kannon would even the range game? Anyone had any luck with these?

I've used them in large numbers against Space Marine Mech. They're damn good against MEQ troops, but not a great weapon against armour. That said, the main weakness of the Doomsday Cannon is it's AV 11 firing platform. My codex is listing them as skimmers, though they may be fliers? If they are skimmers, this vehicle isn't a half bad choice against them. Nearly the same range with a S9 large blast with no penetrating hit bonus, it's definitely in with a shot. I'd highly recommend you get the ard case and possibly even armour plates if your going to try and duel it out with this thing. If nothing else, the Supa Kannon will draw fire while your trukk boyz zoom up the field. OP, if you don't know what a Supa Kannon is, send me a PM and I'll link you to some free resources published legally by GW that can give you an idea.

Another FW counter to this sorta thing are Grott Bomm Launchas. 35 points for a squadronable single shot S8 AP3 large blast barrage weapon with a re-rollable hit dice at range 24-72. Very likely to hit, and then it's gonna glance on a 3 and pen on a 4. If all it does is pen and stun, it's easily, easily made up it's points, and a squadron can fire one at a time up to the three per FA slot until you get your stun (at which point you stop shooting, and try to stun/kill it next turn) I use them to counter Manticores, IG artillery, and stuff like that, and they're bloody good at it. It can be very easily proxied in with an Ork wartrak or even just a deffkopta off of it's flying base (another thing to insist on ~ proxies and counts-as should be 100% fine amongst friends, especially this early in the hobby)

Lootas in good cover will beat the tar out of this thing on a standard table, but on a long table their shorter range means they won't be any use at all. You could consider taking a battlewagon in your list, and loading it with boys on a normal table and Lootas on a long table. But generally speaking, I'd advise against battlewagons in any role where they will be encountering S10.

Dakkajets are another good counter here. Flyboss makes them AP3 against skimmers and fliers I believe and that cannon can't do jack to them.

Zagstruk Stormboyz are another good choice ~ minimum sized suicide squad, deep strike near it and then smash it with a PK. Alternatively, a standard min sized stormboy unit can duck from cover to cover and then bash it, but its gonna take a few turns to get there. Outflanking shooty units like deffkoptas are also great. A solo or small squad can zoom onto the table and fire rokkits at it for a c.1/3 chance of a pen and 1/6 of a glance per kopta firing. Put them *right* next to the ark so ideally nothing else can see it, meaning the Ark will have to move (bye bye long range shot) or shoot the kopta itself (bye bye one turn of shooting, hello chance of hitting yourself!). Again, a Dread Mob Kopta has an advantage because it can buy the buzzsaw for just ten points. If you don't get it the turn you come on, you'll have a damn good chance of getting it the next turn.

Finally, SAG Mek's are a worthwhile option to consider. Range 60", average strength 7 with a +1 on the pen hits table, ordinance for AP re-rolls, large blast for some of the most accurate shooting we get, and most of their doubles results won't be half bad here. You can take three if you ally in the Dread Mob. However, they will be ID if they are hit by the attack

If you want to be real cheeky, proxy in Imotek the stormlord in an allied detachment, and get a 4+ seize the INT roll and auto nightfighting, plus that lightning effect which could get a lucky hit on their doomsday ark (note: it also hits your own units). You could even just get a doomsday ark of your own if you really wanted. Watch your friend cry tears of butthurt rage when he too takes Imotek but finds he cannot seize the INT against Orks.

Hope that helps man.

So all nob bikers throughout? Or just in place of lootaz and kannons which are my only real stationary units.

I will have a look at biker nobs as I haven't used them before being a beginner although I've heard they wreck face.

Suppose bikers can pop vehicles from the rear with speed.

Cheers food for thought

Looking at your opponents list all I can say is beware the annihilation barge! That thing will be a massive problem with the arc rule hitting extra untis. Also don't count on furious charge because Zahndrekh nullifies rules if he takes it. That said, Nob bikes are an excellent choice if you can spare the points for a Painboy for FNP and a 5++ inv. save for an extra 5pts.
Heavy Destroyers and Scarabs will murder anything resembling a tank so your trukks will be dead pretty fast, but as mentioned if you can silence the Doomsday Ark your footsloggers should be ok

That post was for the comment above dakkamite I've read your post but I will have to reply properly later as I'm off out!

Thanks for the tips though its really helpful.

One thing we do suffer from is lack of terrain so I will bring as many bits as I can find maybe grab a few rocks out the garden too

Great stuff thanks speak later

Cheers also mitra!

Take big stacks of books as ruined buildings. Easiest terrain in the world.

Don't get into the bad habit of playing on a blank board. It'll push you further and further towards a Gunline strategy until eventually nothing in your army will have to move at all by which point your not actually 'playing' anything, your just rolling dice.

I agree with Dakkamite on this, in all honesty I've never played on a board with terrain and it does get you shot up to feth. But it is feasible to do, altough I've only really run Speed Freaks and Crons so it gets mitigated to a degree.

Anyway to repeat Dakkamite if you don't have terrain proxy it, you'll get the precious cover save and the board looks a lot less bland.

What scares me is that neither of my last two opponents put any area terrain on the board and I had to ask them to do it. In my game today for example, even after the other guy chucked some area cover on, I didn't have a single inch of the stuff on my side of the board.

The game just seems to shift further and further towards "make a big gunline, roll first turn" and thats not a shift that I approve of. On the plus side though, it'll soon be easy as hell to have proxy games online since you won't actually have to move anything

Never let that happen! Otherwise Nids and Orks may as well go home. So make a specific point of starting with terrain before you've even began to deploy, that way your opponent will join in for fear of being compromised.

Your army is great just make sure your Orks hit the necrons hard in assault as he will gat reanimation on a 4+ and even if he doesn't have a lord with reanimation orb he will still get reanimation on a 6+

Is a foot slog with many boys viable against necron if I can disable the 72" cannon? Or is fast attack the way to smash him hard and fast?

Yeah I hate those pesky reanimation protocols!

Footsloggin and loota backup tend to work with me, else Battlewagon rush ^^ Can fitt 3 battlewagons w/ deffrollas filled with boyz in a 1k game.

Don't have any battlewagons so footsloggin maybe the way with some fast attack and large templates with a suicide squad of stormboyz to pop his av14 and large blast templates maybe a looted wagon or big trakk supa kannon and or grot bombs.

Either that or many bikes!

Could I bring wazdakka in with a minimal squad of kommandos and snikrot to pop tanks? Minimum turn two I suppose I won't save me boyz from the large blast template

Cheers for the tips all

Kommandos dont work as intended(prev eddition) They lost their spark when they couldnt assault after appearing from Reserver :/ as for the bikes i dont see wazzdakka worth it at 1k p i'd rather take a warboss on bike and a few nob bikers. then trukk rush the rest for the points.

RP is 5+ normal so it's even trickier to keep the crons down particularly if there's a resurrection orb around for 4+. The Ark is TOUGH, 4 HP and AV 13 is annoying as anything, so disabling it before your boyz are dust is.... Difficult to say the least.Snikrot got a huge nerf this edition now that he can't assault from reserve, so if you want a suicide squad Zagstruk would be better.
Wazdakka Gutsmek.... Oh the fun you can have with him. He has a nasty gun that will shred cron warriors and a PK to boot. But he's expensive and has no inv. save, so avoid warscythes at all costs.

I play orks too and my favorite thing to use against long range, especially scatter ordinance, is a bunch of truks with at at least one nob and a power claw. then you put them as far apart as possible and rush them. Once you get close enough the wont be able to use the ordinance, in case it scatters on themselves. that with abunch of basic cheap death koppas with rokkit launchas. and ground troops to follow and they wont get to much of a chance to hit u.

Mmmm so many choices ill let you know when I have narrowed my list down as currently I have so many ideas and you gta have given me so great advice to go on.

Stormboyz and deffkoptas sound viable with trukks.

Wazdakka sounds awesome but his saves let him down - maybe he could daisy chain with deffkoptas for safe escort?

Just throwing some ideas out there thanks for the help.

Ill do some rosters and see how the points add up

Keep the advice coming as I'm always learning being a beginner


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Ah I kept saying that necron get av14 its 13 sorry my bad

Well what i like about wazzdakka is this.

1) when first using him maximize the use of warbikers as troops! (expensive money wise but fun)

2) He can still use his bigASS dakkacannon even when flat outing.

3) he can repair battlewagons / trukks for luls.


Stormboyz with bosszagstruk one of the things that worked for me when playing against gunline armies. Deepstrike and loose D3 stormboyz,luckily iv'e only lost one each game so far Then charging the same turn with a I3 powerklaw? I LUV IT! Helped me mostly against Tau and IG, I'm sure it will be as effective against necrons. A suitable size for them is 10-15 stormboyz as we are only talking about 1k.

Deffkoptas Outflanking 1 and 1 unless you have more than one group of 3 that is. Both TL rokkits and the TL big shootas have prooven well to me. The big shootas have bigger chanse at glancing back armor of 10 due the amount of hits but then again the rokkits when they first hit they mostly pen it


As for armor 13, lootas they still take it no matter how many shots you put into it you are darnd better get some green sixes!

Damn, I had no idea Waz could boost and shoot. Figures he can't boost and assault as well, fuckin GW. Still wouldn't take him unless your also running a Biker army (which is awesome but I'm not certain how 'good' it is)

Lootas average a glance per 18 shots on AV 13. That may seem like jack all, but 15 Lootas firing three shots is gonna half kill it.

BS Deffkoptas > Rokkits for anti armour 10 and anti light troops, but rokkits for 11+ and for 4+ or better. In this case, go rokkits or go home. Take them in solos as Phatonic said, outflank them and put them *right* in front of the doomsday cannon. Since LoS is measured from the gun you might be able to block it entirely! This all depends on the height of the two models. If you can't block it entirely, you can still block huge swaths of the field by moving back a bit. Just remember that since they can individually target and resolve shooting from their units (unlike assault, which is all at once and far more realistic and tactical) they could shoot it down and then their cannon has a free hand.

10-15 Stormboys are just going to be 9-14 more casualties if the attack on the Doomsday ark fails (and therefore making his previously wasted shot a damn good deal) and will also probably just eat bullets and die if you do kill it, or die in the explosion, or mishap more easily because the unit is so big... all in exchange for exactly 0% boost to Doomsday ark killing ability.Yeah, I strongly recommend against it, the best thing thats gonna happen is your going to lose a 200-250 point unit to kill one thats like 180 points.


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Oh yeah, as Phatonic said Warboss on a Bike could be great here. Start most of your army (not the boss) in reserve to escape that pie plate and with a tough unit (conga line of grots in cover?) to keep you in the game until they arrive> Turbo him up the board and he'll hit it with like 2-3 attacks that practically auto pen and which get +1 on the damage table. If he kills that thing and then goes down in a hail of gunfire he's done his job. If he fails then it's unlikely to kill him with its side batteries and cannot use its cannon without moving, though since it's hovering off the ground he might just get shot out by other 'crons

Starting at 12" away from your table edge, he can reliably be in position to assault turn two. And as just one model he can easily be hidden on any but the barest, most soulless maps. Alternatively, outflank him with a single deffkopta and hope for the right board edge.

Once again some great tips dakka I will attempt to make a roster based on all the advice above.

The stormboyz sound like a plan IF they work but I'd rather not rely on deepstrike as if it fails its ruined my plans and that cannon is still blasting away.

Koptaz seem to be the answer with their speed and rokkits and wazdakka sounds like a plan. And I have plenty of them.

Like the plan of keeping things in reserve a nice tactic to save things being nuked turn one. So if he get to go first ill reserve my boyz and if he goes second ill get my trukks, bukes and koptaz bombing forward unless I outflank of course - or would you still keep some in reserve?

Thanks for the great tactics and advice really helpful

If he is going second, reserve trukks if a) he has some super INT seizing bastard in his list or b) the sole purpose of the unit is to hold a homefield objective or something. Otherwise go all out.

The koptas probably aren't gonna cut it, but they are the easiest if not the most reliable, way to threaten that cannon, so give them a go.

Crons have no way of boosting initiative seize against Orks (Imotekh is the only one who can but not against the greenies). I'm in agreement with Phatonic, boss on bike is better than wazdakka itc and cheaper, plus can have a 5++ invulnerable. I'd chance the koptas because they're a safer (if you can call BS2 shooting safe) bet than stormboyz and if they get a second go buzzsaws are basically PKs. But as well as the ark almost every necron infantry gun is gauss and AP5 so trukks are at risk, reserve rush is good here. Although any units deployed (boyz particularly) will die as easily as to an MEQ.

Thanks again I have a list to post taking into account your comments I will post on my lunch break

Ta


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Right here it goes with my altered list - basically I’ve ditched the warbikes although I’m not sure if that was a good move or not but there is room to adjust this list as I’m not playing till the weekend.

Please give constructive criticism as you have above guys it’s a great help for a beginner.

Big Mek (113pts)
'Eavy armour
Ammo runt
Cybork body
Shokk attack gun

Lootas (165pts)
11x Loota

10x Gretchin (30pts) Runtherd (10pts)

Ork Boyz (132pts)
11x Shoota Boyz
Nob - Big choppa, Bosspole
Trukk - Big shoota, Red paint job

Ork Boyz (132pts)
11x Shoota Boyz
Nob - Big choppa, Bosspole
Trukk - Big shoota, Red paint job

Ork Boyz (147pts)
11x Boy
Nob - Bosspole, Power klaw
Trukk- Big shoota,

Deffkoptas (60pts) - Bigbomm, Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Deffkoptas (45pts) - Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Deffkoptas (45pts) - Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Supa Kannon Half Trakk (FW) (120pts)
Supakannon

Mek and Supa Kannon to sit at the back with Lootaz raining fire from cover where possible and going to ground when those templates come over head.
Using their large templates to counter the templates of my enemy (and because I’m looking forward to using large temps for the first time!)

Shoota boyz bombing forward in trukks maybe from reserves to save their bacon if I don’t get first turn.
With two big choppa trukks protecting the powerclaw trukk to get into melee asap. With red paint job using my left over points to gain that extra inch.

Is 36 boys enough that is my only concern... doesn’t seem it for 1000 points. But i want to try to avoid footslogging unless we roll short table width as hes bring the large blast template im sure of it!

2x Koptas are for taking down the enemies AV13 backline and the third is for dropping a big bomb on to the scarabs which I know will be coming.
Not sure if to bring one maybe two in from reserves though to try and ensure that rear hit but risking missing a turn or two?

Grots are for surrounding the SAG Mek & Lootas to prevent any deep striking units nuking them – OBRYON!!!!

My friend and I have just rolled to play the single objective each scenario (5 – can’t remember the name) so we have a bit of time to construct a relevant list (as we are beginners - I know it’s not normal but we have limited knowledge and models). Imagine he will just deepstrike Obryon on the last turn to contest and prevent me from scoring though :S

This may change my list a bit but I think that the grots could hold the objective and hopefully cover the long range support at the same time? Maybe wishful thinking.

Please feel free to criticise my list and thoughts

Thanks

Couple of things as a Cron player.

a) The Doomsday Ark is a skimmer, but isn't fast. Also, it has two firing modes and has to sit still to shoot the large blast thing.

b) There is no way I would take a Doomsday ark at 1000 pts. It is a lot of points which would be better spent on Annihilation barges.

If I was tailoring a list against a horde, I would load up on Annihilation barges, put my troops in flyers, take Zandhrek (who gets to remove a USR from one of your units (Furious charge, hit and run, plus give one to one of mine) plus scarabs (because Scarabs with FC are nasty).

So, before you finish tailoring , let us know what models he has access too.

Obryon
Zandrek/lord
Annihilation or command barge
Scarabs
20 warriors
5-10 immortals
3 heavy destroyers
Maybe wraiths and lychguard proxys
Doomsday ark
Unfortunately any other proxys too :s

This is pretty much what he owns or has talked about proxying in the past though.

After a defeat against my foot slogging orks vs his eldar at 500 points I think he will go for blast templates as I swamped him with boys in that game so it would be good to come with something to surprise him

Cheers


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He maybe just proxy a couple of annihilation barges though I can't be sure but I'm sure he will use that 72" cannon if he can afford it although I maybe putting my eggs is one basket assuming that???? Only time will tell!

Ok, with that list of models, I definitely wouldn't take the doomsday (which is the blast template).

I would proxy Annihiliation barges for the tesla destructor cannons and I would take the scarabs to screen plus immortal and warriors.

I'd use the Doomsday as a ghost ark to regenerate a blob of warriors and definitely would take Zandhrek.

So, you may be up against a load of Tesla, which gives 2 additional hits for every '6' rolled plus there is an arc which might hit any unit within 6" (need to roll for this).

The Necron vehicles are AV 13 front and sides until they get penetrated - then they drop back to 11.

Wraiths would also be good here, but fall to volume of fire attacks (note they are S6 but T4).

If he doesn't have any flyers, note that most of the weaponry is only 24", so make sure you have longer range than that (if you can - sorry I know zip about orks) so that he has to come to you. Focus on getting rid of Anni Barges / wraiths first.

hth


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Oh, and watch out for Trazyn. He's pretty expensive, so may not appear, but his Empathic obliterator attack will hurt, badly.

Cheers for that Mcron interesting to see what tips are given from the other side of the fence

I think he will take a long range kannon for fun if nothing else ( as we are both beginners who haven't yet used large templates and flyers!) if he can afford it due to his last experience with orks.

I will concentrate on destroying barges or cannons of any kind before I worry about anything else whilst shooting the wraiths with boys where possible. Saving a big Bomm for the scarabs which he will probably send after my vehicles.

Cheers for you tips and info ill see if I can use them to my advantage unless of course my friend reads this post then I'm screwed!

Can trukks turbo boost and then boyz shoot? I assume not but thought I'd ask incase I'm missing a trick.

Thanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkamite wrote:


The koptas probably aren't gonna cut it, but they are the easiest if not the most reliable, way to threaten that cannon, so give them a go.

What is a more reliable method out of interest as I'm willing to try anything?!


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Hmmm reading those posts above again I'm tempted with an ork boss biker list too now crikey so many awesome models to try out! I'm liking the sound if the hiding and blasting up the table in turn two!

That's a great second list neo, I don't use FW stuff but it looks pretty nasty. MarkCron is right about Trazyn he is a scoring unit and his cc weapon would be a nightmare for you. Personally I wouldn't split the koptas like that in kill point missions your opponent will have fun killing them for easy points.
As already mentioned beware of tesla!!! The AB and immortal will give your army nightmares.

Neo-5 wrote:
Cheers for that Mcron interesting to see what tips are given from the other side of the fence

I think he will take a long range kannon for fun if nothing else ( as we are both beginners who haven't yet used large templates and flyers!) if he can afford it due to his last experience with orks.

I will concentrate on destroying barges or cannons of any kind before I worry about anything else whilst shooting the wraiths with boys where possible. Saving a big Bomm for the scarabs which he will probably send after my vehicles.

Cheers for you tips and info ill see if I can use them to my advantage unless of course my friend reads this post then I'm screwed!

Can trukks turbo boost and then boyz shoot? I assume not but thought I'd ask incase I'm missing a trick.

Thanks

You're welcome. If you are feeling generous, tell your friend to look at the Cryptek options (they pretty much have Necrons only flamer templates)

Have fun!

Maybe after the game I will

MarkCron wrote:

You're welcome. If you are feeling generous, tell your friend to look at the Cryptek options (they pretty much have Necrons only flamer templates)

Have fun!

I'd agree with you there neo and wait to tell him that! But there are other flamer options. Triarch Stalker with a heat ray (heavy flamer OR 2 shot meltagun) is nasty and the targeting relay (the unit it hits has twin-linked against it for the rest of the turn) is a scare. Also Lords and OL's can take a flamer that doubles up as a boosted ccw but I'd be shocked to see that. The cryptek one MarkCron mentioned is S8 AP1 BUT it rolls to wound against Ld not Toughness. Although any cryptek (except maybe one type-the Eternitytek) is a worry to a rushing Ork army.

Oh btw let us know how the game went when you finally play it!

Will do Mitran its least that I can do after all your guys help.
Really want to keep the wins going with my orks but I think it maybe a tricky one against the cron. But I'm goin in positive will all I've learnt above.

Gonna keep working up different list over the week and see what takes my fancy come the weekend. 1000 points just isn't enough!!! Currently working on a biker boss list as dakka suggested above.

Thanks again guys any more comments or crits on my list above feel free to keep throwing things at me after all knowledge is power!


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Here's another list I like the look of any thoughts? Better or worst than my previous list? Mainly added more lootas and removed power klaws from nobs as I don't believe the will see much krumping to justify their points cost against the cron.

Dropped the the gretchin so my SAG mek and lootas may not have the cover and I'm not sure how I would hold an objective with this list but its a nice looking setup for fire power.

Big Mek (113pts)
'Eavy armour, Ammo runt, Cybork body, Shokk attack gun.

Lootas (105pts)
7x Loota, 7x Deffgun
7x Loota, 7x Deffgun

Ork Boyz (127pts)
11x Boyz - Shoota
Nob - Big choppa, Bosspole,
Trukk, Big shoota

Ork Boyz (127pts)
11x Boyz - Shoota
Nob - Big choppa, Bosspole,
Trukk, Big shoota

Ork Boyz (127pts)
11x Boyz - Shoota
Nob - Big choppa, Bosspole,
Trukk, Big shoota

Deffkopta (60pts)
Bigbomm, Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Deffkopta (70pts)
Buzzsaw, Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Deffkopta (45pts)
Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Supa kannon Half Trakk (120pts)

I've split the lootas to give my opponent who will be aiming for them in turn one something to think about and he can't just nuke them all with a big blast in one go.

Not got alot to hold objectives and as we are playing one objective each I could do with some gretchin but not sure where to shave the points off.

Buzz saw kopta to try and seal the deal on the Av13 with one big Bomm for scarabs and some back up missiles on the third.

Large blast coming from the mek and supa kannon half trakk from way down town so plenty of heavy fire but enough boyz?

Ta

I like this list, it's running along the same lines as my trukk list which I thoroughly enjoyed using.

Like any list theres a few things you should change about, or at least be aware of.

-Kill Points. Someone mentioned this, and it's not a game you want to play as Orks. Personally I find it a terrible scenario, one that favours certain armies over others for an arbitrary reason, and refuse to play it unless I roll that mission that has it.

-Big Mek. 'eavy armour isn't a great buy here. Generally speaking, people are going to snipe him with various big guns at AP4 or better, or swarm him with a fast melee unit that will wreck his face regardless of a 4+ save (which they will also probably ignore). I'd drop it if you don't have anything else worthwhile to put the points into

-Deffkoptas. I seem to be talking about deffkoptas alot lately, so forgive me if we've already had this discussion. Koptas aren't the greatest use for your points. The bomm in particular is trash IMO, by all means give it a go if you like since thats far better than listing to some dude on the net tell you what to think about it. But if you want to win against this Necron guy, I highly suggest you just take *one* to limit the potentially wasted points. For what your spending on the koptas (175) you could confortably get another Supa Trakk and half the boyz for another trukk. They're very much a gamble. Between your three koptas, on average two will appear where you want them, getting one hit on rear armour, that has a 50% chance of a no bonuses pen. Since the Necrons ignore crew shaken and stuff, that pen has a good chance of just being a glance. That 50% pen has a 33% of immobilizing or killing the cannon (practically the same thing since it's not in a turret)

-Lootas. Dig deep and find 15 points for a fifteenth Loota, then run them in fives. This is a great way to boost their efficiency if you don't have the points for a whole bunch of them. Lootas, being AP4, are fantastic against Necron troops so they'll be even better than usual against this guy.

-Big Choppas. I liked this list until I saw you had BC in the Trukks. Don't do it man. Slugga trukks are a Klaw delivery system, without the Klaw, theres nothing worthwhile to deliver.

Ill try and relist with claws more lootas and less koptas see if I can make something work.

Would the big Bomm not be good against scarabs swarms?
I thought it maybe a good way to wipe them out in one go as its a small scatter and a large template? To help the trukks?

But if I took the Bomm I would want another cannon killing kopta also so starting to get pricey.

Ill get my friend to do a random roll before we start the game save it being biased then

Ta

Your call. A bomm will put the hurt on swarms, but can swarms put the hurt on you? My understanding is they are a non-scoring fast melee unit thats only good against vehicles ~ something you don't really need to worry that much about. I've never faced swarms (all Imperial all the time sadly), but they have some rule where blast weapons do multiple wounds or something? If they're important enough to warrant a bomm kopta, they're important enough to warrent one round of shooting late in the game from a single Supa Trakk or SAG.

You need the klaws and the lootas, but the koptas is just personal opinion. Feel free to leave them in if you really want to give them a go, but the klaws and loota are pretty much compulsary

Perhaps a few grot bombs would be a cheaper more effective way of laying down templates and twin linked for nearly half the points of a big bomm kopta.

My friend will not know they are out of line of sight so he will hide his 72" cannons from them.but they will still hit - is barrage rule just basically meaning that I can hit out of line of sight? The rule book shows 3 templates but I assume the grot bomb doesn't get 3? Just one large blast.

If I take 3 I can aim one at the scarabs also instant death and 2 wounds per wound for being a swarm. That's seems a more cost effective way.

This feels.better

Scarabs are beasts, swarms and vulnerable to blasts (they have some other special rules, including Fearless). The thing about scarabs is that they have entropic strike, which effectively takes away armour saves - either from multi wound models but usually from vehicles. Key stats are WS3 S3 T3 W3 A4.

When attacking a vehicle, for EACH hit we get to roll for entropic strike - 4+ and we remove 1 armour point from all facings. So, if I get 10 hits, I get say 5 entropic strikes and remove 5 armour points. So if you started at AV11, you are now AV6 for the rest of the game. Now I get to penetrate against AV6 with my S3.

It also works against multi wound non infantry models, any unsaved wound and your armour save goes. However, given S3, this doesn't happen often (but is HILARIOUS when it works).

Scarabs work really well with Zandrek, who gives them Furious charge for S4. Then they are nasty against MEQ.

Also, as Fearless, they are excellent tarpit units. If I take Spyders I can spawn bases (even into a CC!).

Don't get too excited about the vulnerable to blasts as this was just FAQ'd.

If you get an unsaved wound, you get to double it. However, its effectively against the base. So if you hit the scarabs with S6 vs their T3, cause a wound to a base, you then ID that base. But, you then double it (ie cause an additional wound) which also IDs the SAME base - so effectively you killed the same base twice.

Jesus, all these constant rule changes you can never be sure about how the hell you play this game these days.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Jesus, all these constant rule changes you can never be sure about how the hell you play this game these days.

Yep, it is getting difficult to keep up. This was one fair and just though

Don't think my friend or I would noticed that rule so thanks for the info.

Still think a grot bomm would help me in wiping them out with its large blast even if its only one insta kill per base rather than 2.

Dakka you think grot bomms are a more cost effective way of providing S8 than the koptas - I think so as they have the chance of taking down armour too and the range its just the one shot that is my concern but I could sit them near my lootas so they can be used as cover/los once fired.

Could you please confirm the barrage rule as the three templates in the rule book diagram are somewhat confusing as I believe the grot bomb only has a single large blast not 3 so it only gains the line of sight and the no ballistic skill reduction?

Thanks for the info

Barrage Weapons: Pick a spot anywhere you like on the map, LoS be damned. If you can't see it, you don't subtract BS from scatter. In addition, the attack will always hit a vehicle's side armour and you remove casualties from units as though the shot was coming from the centre of the blast marker.

So yep, your spot on there.

The Supa Kannon and SAG are comparable to the Grot Bomm in pure damage output per shot, but the two weapons platforms have various pros and cons. Personally though I reckon the Grot Bomm is the best choice in this situation.

Ill stick in 2 or 3 I reckon cheers on the confirmation dakka

I will post my final list tonight and then I'm done! I can't keep changing it lol i just need to try it all out like you said.

What's the 3 templates all about in the rule book for barrage then?

Thanks

Hmmm now my friend has mentioned using two command barges and at their low cost he may take the doomsday kannon as well! May be he's playing mind games with me - what do the annihilation barges have in the way of fire power?

The AB has a Twin linked tesla destructor (S7 AP- Assault 4, Tesla, Arc) and a Tesla cannon (S6 AP- Assault 2 Tesla). If you don't know, tesla means that for every 6 roll to hit 2 more shots are generated. Arc means that units within 6" suffer D6 S5 AP- hits on a 6 as well. The CCB you mentioned is a transport for a character and has a tesla cannon as mentioned

fething dakka ate my post, so you get the abridged version.

My dex says it has a Tesla Cannon rather than a destructor. Thats 24" range, S6, two shots that become more shots if you roll a 6 to hit. It can trade that for a Gauss Cannon which is S5 AP3 but your not Marines so you don't care about that. Neither of these guns should concern you very much unless it can get behind something with gakky rear armour (ie, all of our vehicles)

Essentially its a land speeder with living metal. Pen it with a kannon and then, if it doesn't go down, I reckon a min sized squad of Lootas will kill it. Honestly its barely even worth the dakka to bring it down, he's just taking it to scare you into wasting your shots.

And quantum shielding (AV 13 front+side till pen'd). If he runs it his OL/named character will be on it alone. So bring it down in cc or while a unit is close. The HQ will get out, then mob him with a tough cc unit and boom! Warlord slain, 1 VP to you. If he chooses an AB it is 24" but the fire it puts out is nasty, high priority.

Has the Annihilation barge been FAQed to have different weapons or something? 24" S6 AP- Assault 2 Telsa isn't scary at all man

So, let's just clarify what we are talking about here.

The Command Barge is a Chariot, and carries a telsa or gauss cannon, Tesla S6 AP-, assault 2 while the Gauss cannon is S5 AP3, Assault 2, Gauss.

Because it is a chariot, the rider (normally an overlord with Warscythe) can make D3 sweep attacks during the MOVEMENT phase on any unit it flies over. Also, the chariot has the Hammer of Wrath special rule, and makes d6 I10 attacks. The rider gets a -1 benefit to armour save, so a typical overlord with a 3+save gets a 2+ because they are on the chariot.

The annihilation barge carries a twin linked tesla destructor (S7 AP- assault 4 Tesla, arcing) AND either a Tesla cannon or Gauss cannon per the above

Both vehicles have quantum shielding which makes them AV13 on front and sides until you get a penetrating hit, when they return to AV11. So, you need a S7 weapon (or something S4+ rending plus a shedload of luck) to GLANCE. 3 hull points.

at 90 points the Anni barge is the most point efficient HS unit in our codex. Hell, it might be the most point efficient HS unit in any codex. It puts out a huge amount of damage, because twin linked Tesla gets a LOT of hits. I routinely get 6 hits from 4 shots from the destructor, before it arcs.

The command barges were really good in 5th ed, because they had a 24" movement in the movement phase. In 6th, you only get 12 inches in the movement phase which tends to limit their usefulness. however, it can be useful because you can overfly a unit, snipe out the sargents with your sweep attacks (hopefully, but you get precision strikes on a 6), then turn round and assault the unit and get D6 HoW attacks from the vehicle at I10. I think you can also SA (but with base I2 Necrons aren't good at SA).

So, from the sounds of it, you'll be up against a mech force.

2 Anni Barges, 2 Command Barges, a Doomsday ark (if he's really nasty, he'll put the Doomsday on a Skyshield). To finish off the army, fill in with warriors in Ghost arks and as he has 2 overlords, expect pairs of Crypteks.

Note that Ghost arks are open topped so you will get overwatch fire from the warriors inside when you assault.

Oh, final point, both the Command Barges and Anni Barges are skimmers (so is the Doomsday Ark) so ramming isn't a reliable option.

Ok, your right, it has both a cannon and destructors. I was only seeing the cannon for some reason.

Becomes much scarier with that in mind.

One thing that is more scary than 2 command barges. Having 2 overlords unlocks another royal court so he can attach 2 crypteks/lords to units.

So, given that if I was tailoring against an ork list, I'd have 8 warriors in a GA, with a despairtek (AP1 Flamer) and a Lord with Resorb and Gauntlet(another flamer!) as my troops. I'd support with AV 13 (so Anni Barges, maybe command barges (but probably not))

Then for additional giggles (on my part) I'd have two pairs of Tremorteks running around. For those that don't know, tremortek have the ability to force units they hit to treat open ground as difficult terrain. If I was feeling really nasty (and had enough points) I'd also chuck in a C'tan which makes difficult terrain dangerous terrain (so you'd be taking dangerous terrain tests when you moved through open ground).

Oh, just to finish off, I'd add Trazyn for empathic obliterator.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS - If you want, I'll create a couple of army lists (a fun one, plus a cheese OP one) and post them here.

Wow that's some scary info right there!

I will have to ensure that those annihilation barges go down first along with a potential doomsday cannon thrown in there too!

That's a lot of av13 armour with some nasty fire power! I have a SAG. supa kannon, two grot bomm and two koptaz in my current list to deal with getting that first pen hit on those vehicles.

Sounds like those barges have the potential for clearing up a unit of trukk boyz in a turn or or two. Not sure how many boyz will be left for CC but I just have to hope for early pen hits to put him on the back foot!

I don't know a lot about necron really MarkCron so I will have to read up about the royal court etc. AP1 flamers! Jeez what's wrong with normal flamers they're bad enough but those pesky crons get ap1 and av13 :s.

I'm starting to wonder if screaming my boyz into cc is going to work with only 36 boyz! Especially against predominantly mech units and warscythe lords.

Oh well I will just play this one out and tweak my list in future to suit if I get trampled.

Anyone use tankbustas to any great effect?

Cheers for the info

Tankbustas are pretty meh. The hammers and bomb squigs are good, but needing to take three practically worthless rokkit dudes to take them makes it a big waste of points.

With the new Necron info in mind, sadly I have to say a Gunline is the probably the only way to compete. Maximum Kannons and Lootas and perhaps a SAG or two. The strongest type of list we can field but its not very much fun.

How would you take your troops in a gun line just gretchin and boyz as protection for the big guns and lootas and Lwagons etc? Scrapping trukks and going with more range?

If a gretchin is covering/surrounding a tank (or SAG) is the tank/SAG in line of sight still? and can it be shot or do the gretchin have to be killed first?
I'm not really sure on this as tank/sag would be visible but do the small gretchin count as cover?

Sorry it maybe a simple question/answer but not something I've come across as yet and don't have my rule book to hand.

Cheers

One thing I forgot to mention about the AP1 flamer is that it is S10, but works against your leadership, not toughness. So, If you are L8, then to wound I'd roll S10 vs L8. If you have L10, I need 4's to wound.

The key thing about Necrons is that generally we only have 24" range. Our armour is a pita, but once you get the warriors in the open, they will die to CC.

Command barges are a bit of a gimmick in 6th. 5th they were awesome.

I don't play orks or against orks (unfortunately - I'd like to have some games against Orks) but a gunline doesn't sound like the way to go. The easiest way to neutralise the Necron firepower is to get into CC.

Most normal necron lists won't be tailored vs anti horde with flamers with the warriors. They'll just have a stormtek or a lancetek to crunch vehicles.

What you will find in most Necron lists is a reliance on Tesla. This will come in the form of Anni Barges and Scythes (with some immortals thrown in occasionally).

The Necron codex allows for a multitude of specialist builds, AV13 spam, Wraithwing, CronAir (even scarab farms - not so much in 6th). So, don't try and tailor for necrons because the way you play against the specialist builds will be different.

As I understand it, the Ork armies are horde based, but have vicious movement options. As you chose orks, play the variant that you like, just make sure (as with any list) that you can deal with heavy armour and flyers.

The AP1 flamer is S8 not 10, so its killing your boyz on 3+ and your HQ on a 4+ (with ID) unless its a warboss whos wounded on 5+. Orks have got lowish Ld so beware of that. I only played against crons with orks once but the opponent was new and got trounced. That said the AB still scared the hell outta me. If he takes 2... You're gonna need some serious fire priority to bring that and the D.Ark down. I think outflankers/DS will neutralise the ark because it will have to move and go rubbish. The ABs just need to die to weight of fire (or a lucky rokkit shot)

Christ's sake, dakka ate my post again and I can't be assed typing it all up again.

Simply put, fighting Necrons is sounding more and more like the last time I fought a helldrake. Lots and lots of special rules and not all that much fun if they take certain units (Doomsday Ark for instance).

I think Markcron might be right about the boys. A forcefield Mek for the cover save, three Kannon Batteries for versatility, some rokkit koptas or Stormboys for threatening/annoying/shield dropping/LoS blocking the Doomsday ark, and a horde of boys. Personally I'd make the first wave shootas, but the second wave sluggas. Its likely you'll get stuck in and after that first round of combat the sluggas are 50% better than the shootas. However 100% Shootas would also be an option

On a wide board, your kannons can kill that ark fairly reliably within a few turns. Reserve your boys and throw your kannons and koptas at it until it dies. On a long board, a kopta or two can outflank next to it 2/3 of the time and harass it. If he keeps things near enough to support it he won't be able to take the centre objectives because Necrons are slow as hell. If he doesn't, he has no way of stopping your kopta simply parking in front of that cannon and forcing it to move or shoot the kopta ~ in both cases saving you from a turn of shooting. Either way, your mission will be to move as far up the board as you can without taking losses. Don't even worry about fighting the Necrons, just move slowly and carefully up the board and sit on objectives, preferably from inside of cover. If he nukes a bunch of boys but at the end of the game you have all the objectives, you've won.

Edit: Stormboys in particular would be fantastic. Minimum squad with or without Zagstruk. If without, DS them behind a rock or something and assault that cannon. If with, just DS right next to him. Maybe even take two squads for more certainty. That PK Nob is a very likely penetrating hit and/or kill on that bloody thing and once thats down nothing else in the Necron list is even remotely as scary.

Are you still talking about taking trukks with the Shootas and Choppas to get them up the board fast or just footslogging with more boyz?

Maybe run a big mek KFF in the central of 3 trukks getting the cover save for all 3. Some stormboyz and a kannon battery keeping it cheap but losing out on the large blasts but as melee is the key then this would be more beneficial.

Like the thought if zagstruk but if in a minimum group and I loose 3 for the assault rule then I would be down to half the squad size meaning a double one for regroup if failed leadership (I maybe wrong here as I'm a beginner). Could this mean the unit has to roll a leadership test before the assault if so that's a bit naff. Hopefully its tested after assault so he still gets his attacks off!

May try and squeeze a supa kannon in to try and give me some heavy fire power.

Thanks guys

 Dakkamite wrote:

Simply put, fighting Necrons is sounding more and more like the last time I fought a helldrake. Lots and lots of special rules and not all that much fun if they take certain units (Doomsday Ark for instance).

I think in most reasonable Necron lists there aren't a huge number of special rules. There are no psykers, and generally the special powers come from wargear (which seems about similar to the level of options in a marine based codex). Generally, things like the Doomsday ark aren't seen, because as @Mit said, get the thing to move and it's effectiveness goes down dramatically.

Imho, necrons are great for beginners, because the units individually can take a bit of a beating (reanimation protocols ftw) and units generally aren't too expensive so you can have a couple of them. Because of that, they are reasonably easy to play. But, once you get the combos right, they can be really nasty to play against, particularly if the list is tailored.

I wouldn't get too concerned about the DA tbh. With speed and shooting, you'll negate it's effectiveness (particularly if you deep strike something next to it). Also, playing around with some specifically tailored Cron lists, I don't think there is going to be a lot of redundancy, especially if there are 2 command barges running around.

You'll have an advantage, because your target priority should now be clear...just get a list you like and have fun.

 Dakkamite wrote:

On a wide board, your kannons can kill that ark fairly reliably within a few turns. Reserve your boys and throw your kannons and koptas at it until it dies. On a long board, a kopta or two can outflank next to it 2/3 of the time and harass it. If he keeps things near enough to support it he won't be able to take the centre objectives because Necrons are slow as hell.

No. You can have necron lists that don't move fast, but you really have to work to achieve that. Essentially, you'd have to leave out wraiths, scarabs, scythes, DLords, Praetorians, probably Ghost arks, not to mention Veils.

This is a list I have knocked up with a short table in mind with range limited at 36"- 48" with lootas and kannons which should be plenty on a short width table.

Big Mek (105pts)
'Eavy armour, Bosspole, Cybork body, Kustom force field

Lootas (75pts)
5x Loota

Lootas (75pts)
5x Loota

Gretchin (40pts)
10x Gretchin
Runtherd

11x Shoota Boyz (142pts)
Nob + Power klaw + Boss Pole
Trukk + Big shoota

11x Shoota Boyz (142pts)
Nob + Power klaw + Boss Pole
Trukk + Big shoota

10x Shoota Boyz (136pts)
Nob + Power klaw
Trukk + Big shoota

Deffkopta (45pts)
Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Stormboyz (157pts)
Boss Zagstruk
6x Stormboy

Big Gunz - Kannon (69pts),
3x Ammo runt, 6x Gretchin

3 trukks flying forward (from reserve if needs be) with KFF covering all 3 with cover from lootas and kannons range with FA kopta attempting a deep strike/outflank turn two (don't think they can come in turn one by deep strike/outflank?)

Will the KFF allow a cover save against gauss 6 rolls?

No blast templates unfortunately really want to try the SAG and biker boss but can't do everything in one game unfortunately.

I think the zagstruk will put pressure on him assuming a successful deep strike - those power klaw attacks should all being well give a positive start.
Ill target barges and arcs first hoping to make him move his 72" kannon or take some HPs.

Issues I see here are big trakk supa kannon S9 large template is missing and I'm not sure if 36 boys will cut it against all those tesla but we will see.

Ill knock up a list for a long table with more range as an alternative and post shortly. Be similar to the one posted a few days ago but maybe with SAG traded for KFF

Cc welcomed as ever.

I do like that list, my Cron head dislikes it and my Ork head likes it. Best of luck with it

Cheers mitranekh though I can't really take credit for it as I've made the list from the help of you guys. Although I do like zagstruk and the stormboyz

I'm going to post another list with more fire power and less FA let me know which you prefer from and ork and necron perspective

Cheers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heavy Fire Power List

Big Mek (113pts)
'Eavy armour, Ammo runt, Cybork body, Shokk attack gun

5x Loota (75pts)

5x Loota (75pts)

10 x Gretchin + Runtherd (40pts)

11 x Shoota Boyz (147pts)
Nob, Bosspole + Power klaw
Trukk + Big shoota

11 x Shoota Boyz (147pts)
Nob, Bosspole + Power klaw
Trukk + Big shoota

11 x Shoota Boyz (147pts)
Nob, Bosspole + Power klaw
Trukk + Big shoota

Deffkoptas (45pts)
Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Grot Bomm (35pts)

Grot Bomm (35pts)

Big Gun - Kannon (20pts)
2x Gretchin

Big Trakk (120pts)
Armour Plates + 2x Big Shoota
Supa-Kannon

Supa kannon is S9 AP3 ordnance 1 large blast with 60" range

Grot bomms are a one time shot S8 AP3, ordnance 1, large blast, barrage, twin linked with a 24"-72" range

Basically the same boyz and gretchin as list above but without KFF (can be swapped with SAG if advised) also 4 large templates added 2 being one time grot bomms to try and blast the shiz out of him turn one.

Single big gun added to use points and to add another S8 target for the enemy to prioritise. Maybe to clear some scarabs if the other guns do the business early on. Unfortunately I can't afford an ammo runt for it which is a shame.
(Can be dropped for red paint job on trukks or more gretchin maybe)

Between this list and the one a post above which do you think is the best overall list in your experience to give me an edge against the crons and an assumed 2 or 3 AV13s ?!

We are going to play The Emperors Will (up to now - maybe will change) so one objective each. I feel I weak to losing warboss and first blood but more confident in taking his objective and getting a few line breakers if I'm lucky.

Think I will defo take one of these list as I do like them both

Cheers

I'd say Sluggas > Shootas in a trukk list. It's the one place where they really shine and you'll appreciate the 50% better CC when they're stuck in.

A KFF for three trukks is a bit of a waste. It'll save a few boys from an explosion but not enough to really be worth it

I honestly don't think you need the extra stormboy. Whats he going to accomplish? He'll do no damage to a vehicle, be another 50% casualty from the explosion, and then eat one or two out of a flood of bullets that overkill Zaggy and co several times over after the vehicle is dead.

My vote goes for list #1, but swapping Shootas for Sluggas.

Never used a KFF so wasn't sure how much protection it would provide etc . Maybe an SAG instead

Was thinking an extra stormboy would help with the d3 wounds for the assault on landing rule so that they don't have to flee turn one. Not 100% how the rule works though - if the stormboyz get their attacks before a leadership test I suppose it doesnt matter much.

Ill go sluggas in trukk as like you say it all about melee and the cc game against the cron so the extra attack will help and four on the charge

I won! Thanks so much for your help guys.
My mate and I both learnt a lesson today - large blast aren't everything that we expected them to be!

I went with the list with the supa kannon and the grot bomm and my templates were average at best. SAG never hit above a S5! And one grott bomm glanced.

Only vehicle my mate took was the doomsday arc no annihilation barges so I was happy.

Turn 1 was stale mate really nothing much happens but I got first turn. Fired all my large blast and lootas and only took one hull point off the doom arc. Best thing was on my mates turn he didn't choose to shoot at my trukks he was baffled by my large blasts.
I couldn't believe it so turn 2 my boyz were krumpin! And boy did they do good! Pleased I took the Choppa boyz as they were brutal with 4 attacks! His heavy destroyers took out my single kannon leaving one gretchin (he was man of the match!).

Boyz kiilled overlord with res orb and 15 warriors (i think 15) and other trukk boyz claimed his objective and I decided to bring the third trukk and boyz back after killing the destroyers as he deep striked obyron and immortals in to my back line.

In the end I swamped him in melee and then my lootas came good doing a snap shot wound on obyron and then a gretchin from the kannon that survived his leadership - Killed obyron!! What!!! I couldn't believe it taking his last wound!

He insta killed my warlord with the doomsday arc unfortunately although the single kopta really caused some aggro to that dooms arc blocking line of sight and one turn he even shot at it wasting a turn as it jinked was so pleased how that turned out.

Then it was a case of whittling down his last few stragglers and fleeing units and then the lootas came good and did 3 glances against his dooms arc in one turn.

By turn 4 he had no units left. All my trukks were still ok except one that got immobilised on a dangerous terrain test.

He scored 2 points - warlord and first blood

I scored 8 points - with both objectives and warlord and a line breaker

Thanks so much for your help. Next time we are playing relic scenario with 1200 points and flyers but I have none :( but I have quite a lot of fast attack

Awesome..congrats - sounds like a fun game!

Next time, let Dakka at his list too

Yeah it was fun thanks - ill tell my mate to jump on this forum too for some tips! Although I may regret it as you guys are good

Neo-5 wrote:
Yeah it was fun thanks - ill tell my mate to jump on this forum too for some tips! Although I may regret it as you guys are good

First off, well played good job and get a specially converted Grot model made ASAP! but please do get your friend on here, we have to be fair to both sides now don't we?

Congrats man. Now it starts to get hard. Necron's are infamous for their fliers, and Orks have no dedicated AA outside of the dakkajet (edit: and some more forgeworld stuff that I forgot about)

I'm loath to suggest fliers but your gonna need them here. But instead of buying the damn things, honest to god they are very very (very) easy to build from scratch. Model it off of the WW2 Hellcat, and just use a suitably sized sauce or drink bottle as the base.

Edit: As for that forgeworld stuff, look at the Big Trakk entry in IA:8. It can get flakkaguns. But what you want is the Flakka Trakk, but sadly thats not in there ~ however it is literally exactly this unit, with the flakkaguns options, and taken solo rather than in a squad (which is super gak IMO). Where it differs is the Go Go Go! special rule ~ this allows it to move flat out and still "fire" it's Flakkaguns (assumably normally, it doesn't clarify).

Overall though the dakkajet is probably still better because this unit hogs a heavy slot and is still like 90 points.

Guys could I have any opinions on the following units which I would like to try out...

Nobs with painboy in trukk
Meganobz with warlord in trukk
Nob bikers with painboy small unit and large

Some expensive units here and was curious if they have proved generally to be worth the points - I suppose they would be best transported in a battlewagon but I don't have one :(

Any tips would be appreciated thanks

Neo-5 wrote:
Guys could I have any opinions on the following units which I would like to try out...

Nobs with painboy in trukk
Meganobz with warlord in trukk
Nob bikers with painboy small unit and large

Some expensive units here and was curious if they have proved generally to be worth the points - I suppose they would be best transported in a battlewagon but I don't have one :(

Any tips would be appreciated thanks

The Manz(mega armored nobz) missle works rather well, move 12 flat out 12, (into cover if there is any) then move 6 jump out 6 charge 2d6 woooh ur in Close combat turn two with units that's S&P

Normal nobz in trukk.. sounds fun on paper but is less efficent in game, the trukks will need luck to survive and normal nobz ending costing more than the mega nobz due painboy and aditional PK's /waagh banner cybork armor / eavy armor. but iv'e tried to run clean 10 man nobz in trukks just for the laughs... against Tau it went very good as he didnt see them as a big threat having no uppgrades, he focused on other sutff... nonethe less they got into CC rather fast and he bugged his overwatch ^^ One multi assault later.. and two groups of 12 firewarriors were dead xD

Nob bikers.. One of the best deathstars in our normal Codex, allways take a warboss on bike with them for the LD9 and grab a Bosspole as they will need it, Painboy aswell. Prefered size is atleast 5 nob bikers (the 5 include a painboy) and grab a waagh banner to make your warboss even harder to hit with high WS and FNP ^^
1-2 PK's depending on size. they are like the trukk but move 12 flat out 12, next turn move 12 then assault and not to forget their awesome 4+ 4+ /5/5++

Thanks for that phatonic its always good to hear how units have performed for other people although I know it all comes down to the dice roll at the end if the day. Are trukks ok to use as he plays necron and battlewagons seem a waste if points really with his awesome anti tank.

My friend has bought a couple of new units today to help him get stuck in melee with my boyz. I think he's going lychguard praetorians and wraiths so I fancied proxying some hard hitting units myself

Those preytorians sound nasty crikey that AP1 melee nukes everything and a full squad will hurt but suppose against 30 boys its trivial?? Maybe a bit of tarpitting and plenty of shooting will hold em up.

Should be fun as its the first fully no holds barred game we are playing all units allowed flyers everything ! Also mention about coming on here for advice so he maybe joining us soon

Look forward to taking some new units in the next game

Neo-5 wrote:
Thanks for that phatonic its always good to hear how units have performed for other people although I know it all comes down to the dice roll at the end if the day. Are trukks ok to use as he plays necron and battlewagons seem a waste if points really with his awesome anti tank.

My friend has bought a couple of new units today to help him get stuck in melee with my boyz. I think he's going lychguard praetorians and wraiths so I fancied proxying some hard hitting units myself

Those preytorians sound nasty crikey that AP1 melee nukes everything and a full squad will hurt but suppose against 30 boys its trivial?? Maybe a bit of tarpitting and plenty of shooting will hold em up.

Should be fun as its the first fully no holds barred game we are playing all units allowed flyers everything ! Also mention about coming on here for advice so he maybe joining us soon

Look forward to taking some new units in the next game

Wraiths aint that scary when you get that Boomgun or supakannon off, they are T4 thus being instant killed^^ sure they got a 3+ inv save.. but that's like killing space marines.. enough wounds = enough unsaved ones^^

Typically ork tactics then really - as many shots/attacks as possible as something is bound to take a wound and go down!

Just need to decide what I'm taking now ill post something up when I get chance

Trukks are the best vehicle to take against good anti-tank. If something is gonna bust a both a battlewagon or a trukk with ease, that ramshackle rule makes an enormous difference. Personally I almost always take trukks over battlewagons, but in both cases you need to go big or go home ~ a fleet of trukks or wagons, or none at all, because just one isn't gonna cut it. If you are taking just one, a trukk full of MANz can still be decent its just a bit risky

 Dakkamite wrote:
Trukks are the best vehicle to take against good anti-tank. If something is gonna bust a both a battlewagon or a trukk with ease, that ramshackle rule makes an enormous difference. Personally I almost always take trukks over battlewagons, but in both cases you need to go big or go home ~ a fleet of trukks or wagons, or none at all, because just one isn't gonna cut it. If you are taking just one, a trukk full of MANz can still be decent its just a bit risky

Trukks filled with only 3-4 do a decent job after my experience ^^ the manz missles are hillarious.

Praetorians are AP2, not AP1 (they don't get warscythes). They only get one attack base, so because they are expensive as all get out, yoy should be ok. The Lychguard might be more effective as have 2 attacks base. Both are T5 FYI.

Wraiths with a destroyer lord are nasty, because they will get PE. Definitely get stuck into them with shooting ASAP.

Toughness five eh? Double six shock attack gun inc! Nah jokes... but as said.. quantity kills the quallity, enough dakka would do it.. iv'e had a dreadknight die by shoota boyz

I can manage 4 trukks 20 meganobz (nob proxy) so that should be pretty good sound awesome so if I remember correctly AP2 still allows no saves against +2 saves so meganobz wouldn't be too safe against the pretorians but I suppose I should be shooting them rather than melee.

Doubt my friend will be taking destroyers in a hurry as he was disappointed with them. He used them for the first time in the last game and my boyz krumped all 3 in one go turn two.

So don't think he will take dest lord he will go zandrek and obyron and a flyer or two which worries me as I have none :s would a defense line full of lootas help? Or I can get some pop bottles as dakka said and get building.

Is it valid with these objective games to play defensive as orks and sit 30 shoota boyz on an objective or two and just hold fast rather than full rush up the board. Let him come to me? Doesn't sound too orkish but if it works??

As in the last game I rushed all boyz forward leaving all my templates heavies at the back with my grethcin capped objective and he deep striked and had the pickings of them all and nearly sneaking my objective as all my boyz were in his deployment zone.

Thanks all

Imo if he's got flyers an ADL with quad gun would be a great call for 100pts. 4 S7 shots TL i believe, thats a dead flyer, plus it has interceptor (I think...) As for the charge tactic, yes do rush him he's crons, but if its a flyer game make sure to hve rapid reaponse units (koptas, bikes, nob bikes etc) to cut off landing troops and stuff.
Also if you want a flyer the Dakkajet is a great flyer killer and its guns mulch cron warriors (though for that job you take a pimped out burna bommer, AP4 ftw).
If he takes Zahndrekh, KILL HIM ASAP!! I know he isn't the fightiest so get your MANZ in his face with Boss and krump 'is 'ead in.

If you know your going up against AP2 then Nobs are a far better choice than MANz. Cybork, FNP, Banner, Bosspole, and of course not striking last

Ah I forgot about the power klaws on the mega armour suits making them all I1 - it would be easier for me to play nobz as I have a few rather than proxying.

Maybe even a squad of biker nobz ill have a dabble with the roster see what I can come up with to counter his HQs and elites - ill post a list sometime tomorrow

Cheers all

Neo-5 wrote:
Ah I forgot about the power klaws on the mega armour suits making them all I1 - it would be easier for me to play nobz as I have a few rather than proxying.

Maybe even a squad of biker nobz ill have a dabble with the roster see what I can come up with to counter his HQs and elites - ill post a list sometime tomorrow

Cheers all

Toughness six warboss ftw

Doesn't the toughness lower to 5 if he is in the biker nob squad though? I never have run a boss on his own is it worth it?

Yeah against shooting GW has decided to nerf tough models whilst allowing heavily armoured models to retain 100% of their advantage. You use majority toughness but individual armour saves. Hurray GW and their lack of Space Marine bias.

Want to put that Warboss in front to tank shooting? feth you. Wanna take a 2+ sergeant for your squad to do the same thing? Go right ahead.

Neo-5 wrote:
Doesn't the toughness lower to 5 if he is in the biker nob squad though? I never have run a boss on his own is it worth it?

It's mostly a close combat thing.. unless you wanna risk it and go suicidal and solo run him

Neo-5 wrote:

Doubt my friend will be taking destroyers in a hurry as he was disappointed with them. He used them for the first time in the last game and my boyz krumped all 3 in one go turn two.

So don't think he will take dest lord he will go zandrek and obyron and a flyer or two which worries me as I have none :s would a defense line full of lootas help? Or I can get some pop bottles as dakka said and get building.

Don't confuse a Destroyer Lord with Destroyers (or even heavy destroyers). Not the same beast at all. Destroyer Lord is CC oriented (Warscythe, Jump Infantry, Preferred Enemy Everything, 2+/3+ with orb, MSS). In a unit of wraiths, can tank wounds on 2+ and grants PE to wraiths while not slowing them down.

Neo-5 wrote:

Is it valid with these objective games to play defensive as orks and sit 30 shoota boyz on an objective or two and just hold fast rather than full rush up the board. Let him come to me? Doesn't sound too orkish but if it works??

As in the last game I rushed all boyz forward leaving all my templates heavies at the back with my grethcin capped objective and he deep striked and had the pickings of them all and nearly sneaking my objective as all my boyz were in his deployment zone.

Thanks all

I would strongly advise not trying to camp objectives against a mechanised Necron list (either with Ghost Arks or Night Scythes). The reason is that he'll be able to camp his objective and will simply drop out the warriors from the NS/GA to contest yours at the end. Besides, where's the fun in that ? If you want to camp, play Tau.

Rushing stuff forward ftw!

Hey Markcron what do you reckon about a Destroyer Lord as an allied HQ for Orks?

Been gathering Necron models to make 'Looted Crons' with, and I'm thinking of putting a Warboss on a Destroyer platform (with a smashed destroyer body hanging off of it!) as the HQ. The alternative is probably Imotek the Stormlord, fluffed as a Kommando Boss. I'm real big on fast choppy HQ but really does the Destroyer Lord bring anything a bikerboss wouldn't already?

Cheers

Ah! destroyer lords do sound nasty - there maybe a chance my friend will get one as he was talking about getting melee units.
That thing would take some killing!

I'm thinking he will go with pretorians lychguard and wraiths though as then he can proxy other units if he has more models - but he may surprise me!

Dakkamite wrote:Hey Markcron what do you reckon about a Destroyer Lord as an allied HQ for Orks?

Been gathering Necron models to make 'Looted Crons' with, and I'm thinking of putting a Warboss on a Destroyer platform (with a smashed destroyer body hanging off of it!) as the HQ. The alternative is probably Imotek the Stormlord, fluffed as a Kommando Boss. I'm real big on fast choppy HQ but really does the Destroyer Lord bring anything a bikerboss wouldn't already?

Cheers

I really don't know anything about orks, so can't really compare. However, the DestroLord is a great unit when paired with something fast (because of ability to Tank, having MSS, plus giving PE). If you were going to run allies and wanted a looted Destrolord, I'd suggest you also include wraiths (240), 5 warriors in NightScythe (165) and an Anni Barge (90).

Neo-5 wrote:Ah! destroyer lords do sound nasty - there maybe a chance my friend will get one as he was talking about getting melee units.
That thing would take some killing!

I'm thinking he will go with pretorians lychguard and wraiths though as then he can proxy other units if he has more models - but he may surprise me!

Just so you're clear - Lychguard and Praetorians are separate units and cost 40 points each (min 5). Unless you significantly up your points, you probably won't see all three. Actually I hope that you don't see all three, cos any list that has all three will get pounded at 1500pts.

My friend has really got the bit between his teeth now after his last defeat - it seems he's been researching or been in a forum as he has mentioned a lot of ways he intends on disabling my boyz some of which do have me stumped!

First he said he can blow all my trukks in turn one - I'm not sure how but maybe deep striking pretorians is on way but that would only disable one. Maybe a deep strike and a tachyon arrow? Any offers here?

He also said he is taking two flyers so now I assume I need at least one and a aegis line to even compete?

He said he will use scarabs to tarpit my boys so I said I use burna boys in a wagon but then he said he could make the whole unit die if they rolled a 1 with making my weapons get hot??? Surely scarabs can't do that but can any other unit?

Finally he said he would deep strike everything in to my back line that he could and support with fast attack. Not sure how this really helps as if he does that I will steal his objectives and he will steal mine!?! Unless he tarpits all my boys in the middle.

I think I am worrying to much about his strategy rather than my own but if you can help me out with any of the above it would help as a few of those things I'm stumped on. Especially what to do if all my trukks go turn one!?

Neo-5 wrote:
My friend has really got the bit between his teeth now after his last defeat - it seems he's been researching or been in a forum as he has mentioned a lot of ways he intends on disabling my boyz some of which do have me stumped!

First he said he can blow all my trukks in turn one - I'm not sure how but maybe deep striking pretorians is on way but that would only disable one. Maybe a deep strike and a tachyon arrow? Any offers here?

Not to be disheartening, but you only have 3 trukks, and Necrons have more AV options than you can poke a stick at. They won't necessarily blow, but glance to death has the same effect.

Neo-5 wrote:
He also said he is taking two flyers so now I assume I need at least one and a aegis line to even compete?

If one is a doom scythe, probably a good idea to have some anti flyer capability.

Neo-5 wrote:
He said he will use scarabs to tarpit my boys so I said I use burna boys in a wagon but then he said he could make the whole unit die if they rolled a 1 with making my weapons get hot??? Surely scarabs can't do that but can any other unit?

Actually, yes. A C'tan shard can do that. I haven't got my codex so not sure on ranges etc.

Neo-5 wrote:
Finally he said he would deep strike everything in to my back line that he could and support with fast attack. Not sure how this really helps as if he does that I will steal his objectives and he will steal mine!?! Unless he tarpits all my boys in the middle.

Normally, if I do that (actually I tend to do that quite a bit) I have a couple of reserved squads of warriors to walk on and take/contest the objectives at the end. Also, if he has all your objectives, you are sort of between a rock and a hard place. Move back to contest yours? Or move forward to get his?

Is there any mileage in holding fast turn one and two to stop the deep striking units and sticking masses of boys on my objectives no trukks? and drawing him in then attacking? Just a thought?

With maybe deepstriking some stormboyz and or koptaz to steal his objectives and to nuke heavy support?


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Also what necron units or weapons have haywire rule?


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Ctan shards look immense they are practically an awesome HQ unit! Nasty!

The Ork strength lies in its infantry, not it's ramshackle bucket of bolts vehicles.

You need AA now. That means either Lootas, Aegis, Forgeworld Flakk Trakk, or Dakkajet.

I just looked at the Necron fliers... and I mean seriously, they get AV13? And pinpoint precision attacks with that death beam? Seems extremely fun and balanced, especially against the army with the worst AA in the game.

Not quite, flyers don't get quantum shielding so they're only AV11. But I agree in terms of aerial fighting Orks are in bother against crons, a D'jet will be near vital, as will an ADL

Would there be any mileage in a AA gun line style set up to try and defend my objectives and draw him to me then attack rather than getting caught mid table between objectives?

As many lootas as I can get and aegis and maybe a dakka jet and shoota boys with some storm boys for contesting

Tricky I'm a tad unsure how to go about this now he's going deepstrike and flyers changed my game plan of bombing forward as there will be nothing there to attack lol


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Any one know a good resource for dakka jet rules etc?

Ah I got that wrong. I thought it was living metal that was +2 AV. Even as it is, your going to have to kill these fliers you can't stun them.

Orks aren't that great as a gunline compared to other armies. Things like that Doomsday Ark are gonna bomb you into the ground. I hate to say it, but I'm seriously recommending you ally something in at this point.

The other alternative is, rather than shooting down the fliers, ignore them. They can only do so much damage, and they're only on the board for so many turns, and they spend half that time pointed in the wrong direction! Build an army that cannot be crippled by something like this and laugh when his 175pt Doom Scythe kills a handful of boyz each turn.

Neo-5 wrote:
Would there be any mileage in a AA gun line style set up to try and defend my objectives and draw him to me then attack rather than getting caught mid table between objectives?

As many lootas as I can get and aegis and maybe a dakka jet and shoota boys with some storm boys for contesting

Tricky I'm a tad unsure how to go about this now he's going deepstrike and flyers changed my game plan of bombing forward as there will be nothing there to attack lol


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Any one know a good resource for dakka jet rules etc?

As for the dakkajet rules is sadly trough a silly book they released,...,, or wait untill the next ork codex gets out.

Dakkas sorted me out thanks man

Neo-5 wrote:
Dakkas sorted me out thanks man

with the updated one i hope?

if not fighta ace = fly boss and = BS 3 against everything.

Erm I'm not sure just looking now

Yeah man, don't hold it for too long I'm going to need it next weekend.

As for the dakkajet, yeah take note that those things are BS3 against, well, everything. I had used those rules in White Dwarf for ages and so was shocked when I found out that it was so damn accurate. Just don't get any ideas about those other fliers, they're pretty bad... especially the blitzabommer which competes with Flash Gitz for worst thing in the codex.

Dakka don't worry ill give the book back when I've finished borrowing it

Neo-5 wrote:
Would there be any mileage in a AA gun line style set up to try and defend my objectives and draw him to me then attack rather than getting caught mid table between objectives?

As many lootas as I can get and aegis and maybe a dakka jet and shoota boys with some storm boys for contesting

Tricky I'm a tad unsure how to go about this now he's going deepstrike and flyers changed my game plan of bombing forward as there will be nothing there to attack lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any one know a good resource for dakka jet rules etc?

Reiterating my comments before the last game - play to the strength of the orks, rather than changing on the basis of what you expect the opponent to do. If you charge forward and there is nothing there, well, at least you'll get Linebreaker!

Can anyone help me with Artillery rules as I've read in a few places that the kannon and its grot crew get T7 through the rule book doesn't seem to support this - confirmation would be great.

Cheers.

Hurr durr not a substitute for the rulebook etc.

Page 46 under shooting at artillery. Grots are absolutely without a doubt the cheapest T7 3+ saves in the entire game. They don't get those stats in an assault.

Ah good stuff thought they were but missed the info

Cheers dakka

What's a grot? - Like I said, no ork experience.

Grots are Gretchin