This is actually the 2nd game in a double-header. The first game was against GTKA666's footdar:

2000-pt Jy2's NEW Mechdar vs GTKA666's Footdar

The second game is against a proven tournament army - my very own Necron Wraithwing Tesla-crons. This "type" of army has had a very successful track record in tournament play. I've won my very first GT (The Golden Throne GT 2012, which was also the very first 6th Edition GT) with it. Others have won tournaments as well with variations of it. In this year's Adepticon, the majority of the final 16 armies in the Championships comprised of necrons and their flyers. I believe necrons is still the standard for tournament excellence. I honestly feel that if an army can beat my necrons, then it has what it takes to win a GT.

Ok, so now that I am done tooting my own horn , I am not running necrons in this match. It will actually be generaled by my good friend, SabrX, who is just returning to gaming after a brief hiatus.


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2000 Craftworld Pangaea Mechdar Eldar (Jy2)


Warmaster Jy2.

Despite my experience in the game of 40K, this will be my 2nd game ever as the space elves both in this and last edition of 40K. It may be quite a learning experience for me.


Farseer - Jetbike, Singing Spear, Mantle of the Laughing God - Guide, Prescience, ? (Warlord)

Warlord Trait: I hit the jackpot here and got the Mother of All Warlord Traits....Splitfire!!! Woohoo!!!

10x Guardians
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatter, Shuri-cannon, Holofields

10x Guardians
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatter, Shuri-cannon, Holofields

10x Guardians
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatter, Shuri-cannon, Holofields

10x Guardians
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatter, Shuri-cannon, Holofields

10x Storm Guardians - 2x Fusion Guns
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatter, Shuri-cannon, Holofields

3x Guardian Jetbikes - Shuri-cannon

9x Warp Spiders
9x Warp Spiders

Wraith Knight



2000 Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons (SabrX)


Tim (aka SabrX here on dakka) has been on a hiatus from gaming due to school. The last time he played was in the Bay Area Open GT 2013, where he actually did very well with his Tau (the old edition) + Orks. He should have taken Best Tau player, but due to a calculation error, ended up the 2nd Best Tau player. Suffice to say, it was a very good placing for someone who hasn't really played a whole lot of 6E. BTW, you can find his BAO experiences here:

1750pts SabrX's Tau-Orks at Bay Area Open GT 2013

Regarding my opponent's qualifications as a necron player, while he doesn't have a whole lot of experience in 6th Edition, SabrX has played both against and as my necrons many times. He is very familiar with them and so far, has actually beaten me with my own necrons in the few times we have played in 6E (I think we've played twice in 6E where he used my own necrons against me). Thus, I am confident that he will give me a very good fight with them.


Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, Ressurrection Orb
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, Ressurrection Orb (Warlord)

Warlord Trait: Move Through Cover 12"

5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
'
6x Wraiths - 2x Whip Coils
6x Wraiths - 2x Whip Coils
6x Wraiths - 2x Whip Coils

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge


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Mission: Crusade - 3 Objectives


Deployment: Hammer & Anvil


Initiative: Necrons


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PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Mechdar:

This will certainly be a very exciting and tense matchup. I honestly can't say for sure who will come out the victor. I think it will be almost a coin-flip. Let me go into detail the various aspects of the army.

Movement:
Both armies are incredibly fast, with troops that can get to almost anywhere at will. However, mechdar will most likely be sacrificing some mobility for more firepower. Thus, they will only actually have 1 fast troop choice to get to the far objectives. Also, when the eldar disembark their troops for more firepower (and they will), basically that unit won't be going anywhere. With 4 night scythes who can drop their troops almost anywhere, that will be a key advantage that have made the necrons so good.

Advantage: Necrons


Shooting:
While teslas are very good, there is no contest here. Eldar shooting is superior, both up close and at range.

Advantage: Eldar


Assault:
Eldar only has 1 unit that can do well in assault - the wraithknight. Necrons, on the other hand, have a very scary and fast assault component to their army.

Advantage: Necrons


Resiliency:
This is a tough one. Wraiths are highly resilient, especially with the Destroyer Lords tanking their shots. However, Eldar does have the volume of shooting to bring down the wraiths. Eldar have the very resilient serpents who should be getting 4+ cover almost every turn. However, Necron teslas are more than capable of taking down AV12. Moreover, once those wraiths hit the eldar skimmers, it's gone. Necrons have flying AV11 transports who are hard to take out. However, eldar has a lot of twin-linked shooting that should be able to easily take out the flyers even without any skyfire. Eldar has the very, very tough wraithknight. However, necrons should be able to take him down with the volume of S6 rending hits from the wraiths as well as Mindshackle Scarabs. Each army is super tough and each army has the counter to their opponents. I'm going to go ahead and call this a....

Advantage: Draw


X-factor:
There are several factors that can lead to victory. If eldar can go first, they will have the advantage as they will then have 1 extra turn of shooting. However, then the necrons will have the last turn to drop off troops on objectives. Objective placement will also be very important. Ideally for me, I want the objectives out in the open so that I can shoot down any necron troops who try to take them. Necrons would want to spread out the objectives as they will have an easier time getting to the objectives than my mechdar. Target priority is very important in this game. You have to target the right units. My goal is to take out the mobility of the necron troops by shooting down his flyers and make them walk to the objectives. My opponent, if he is savvy, should try to take out my mobility as well to prevent me from getting to the objectives. Whoever makes the mistake in target prioritization will probably lose.

But the biggest X-factor in this game will probably be experience. I have much more experience playing competitive 40K than my opponent and I have much more experience with regards to necrons than my opponent as well. I know their strengths and their weaknesses as well. While my opponent has experience playing with and against my necrons, sometimes, you miss the subtleties of an army that you are not intimate with. His play, while probably steady, will probably not be highly optimized as well. You can bet I'll be taking advantage of that.

Advantage: Eldar


So IMO, it really is too close to call. I think this game will be a toss-up with the dice and perhaps mistakes dictating who the winner will be.


---------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:




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Necrons 1




Eldar 1




Necrons 2




Eldar 2




Necrons 3




Eldar 3




Necrons 4




Eldar 4




Necrons 5




Eldar 5

This should be a good one !

This was a hell of a game, I was lucky to watch it firsthand.

I love my necrons but lists like this, to me, are what is making wraith wing far less viable. ( this and tau of course)

He is going to have to play very smart, the wraiths will be easy fodder for all that VoF so he will need to use terrain and speed to try and get them into combat with something.

With the speed of the warp spiders he will have to postion his ABs very well to avoid getting their bumpers all shot up.

Between guide and the TL scatter, I also think there is more than enough VoF to put down the scythes.

I have to give this one to the Eldar.

I didnt now SabrX was GTKA666 as well O.o

GTKA666 wrote:
I didnt now SabrX was GTKA666 as well O.o

SabrX is clearly a shapeshifter.

Autoloss for a outdated cronlist. Sorry jy2, That list used to be good at the start of 6th but it needs to evolve to compete with hardcore Deamons, Tau and Eldar.

JY2, will I see your Nids at the ATC?

 Roci wrote:
I love my necrons but lists like this, to me, are what is making wraith wing far less viable. ( this and tau of course)

He is going to have to play very smart, the wraiths will be easy fodder for all that VoF so he will need to use terrain and speed to try and get them into combat with something.

With the speed of the warp spiders he will have to postion his ABs very well to avoid getting their bumpers all shot up.

Between guide and the TL scatter, I also think there is more than enough VoF to put down the scythes.

I have to give this one to the Eldar.

Believe me, it is definitely a viable list. It's just that, for some reason, people shun running it. I honestly don't believe it is their fear of anti-flyer firepower. Rather, people tend to view it as "that" army - the type of army who will steamroll all but the most competitive armies.

But the new eldar will definitely put them to the test. The last time I ran my wraithwing, it was against triptide Tau and they just blew away my wraiths. Eldar definitely has the potential to replicate that feat.

GTKA666 wrote:
I didnt now SabrX was GTKA666 as well O.o

Oopsies. Edited.

 Valek wrote:
Autoloss for a outdated cronlist. Sorry jy2, That list used to be good at the start of 6th but it needs to evolve to compete with hardcore Deamons, Tau and Eldar.

Don't be so sure. If I were a betting man, I'd say even money on this matchup.

 Blackmoor wrote:
JY2, will I see your Nids at the ATC?

Unfortunately, no. My teammate - someone you may just know who goes by the name of Janthkin here on dakka - will be bringing his bugs.

I voted necrons. Tesla outpaces serpent shields/spyders even twin linked.

I think the crons shut it down on serpent spam. Should be really cool to see how it actually plays out and how these new "power builds" stack up to old faithful. I think the wraiths get obliterated and the barges/scythes slowly blow away transports and then drop troops for the win..

If I were to bet money it'd be on the toaster heads. You never know though.

PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Mechdar:

This will certainly be a very exciting and tense matchup. I honestly can't say for sure who will come out the victor. I think it will be almost a coin-flip. Let me go into detail the various aspects of the army.

Movement:
Both armies are incredibly fast, with troops that can get to almost anywhere at will. However, mechdar will most likely be sacrificing some mobility for more firepower. Thus, they will only actually have 1 fast troop choice to get to the far objectives. Also, when the eldar disembark their troops for more firepower (and they will), basically that unit won't be going anywhere. With 4 night scythes who can drop their troops almost anywhere, that will be a key advantage that have made the necrons so good.

Advantage: Necrons


Shooting:
While teslas are very good, there is no contest here. Eldar shooting is superior, both up close and at range.

Advantage: Eldar


Assault:
Eldar only has 1 unit that can do well in assault - the wraithknight. Necrons, on the other hand, have a very scary and fast assault component to their army.

Advantage: Necrons


Resiliency:
This is a tough one. Wraiths are highly resilient, especially with the Destroyer Lords tanking their shots. However, Eldar does have the volume of shooting to bring down the wraiths. Eldar have the very resilient serpents who should be getting 4+ cover almost every turn. However, Necron teslas are more than capable of taking down AV12. Moreover, once those wraiths hit the eldar skimmers, it's gone. Necrons have flying AV11 transports who are hard to take out. However, eldar has a lot of twin-linked shooting that should be able to easily take out the flyers even without any skyfire. Eldar has the very, very tough wraithknight. However, necrons should be able to take him down with the volume of S6 rending hits from the wraiths as well as Mindshackle Scarabs. Each army is super tough and each army has the counter to their opponents. I'm going to go ahead and call this a....

Advantage: Draw


X-factor:
There are several factors that can lead to victory. If eldar can go first, they will have the advantage as they will then have 1 extra turn of shooting. However, then the necrons will have the last turn to drop off troops on objectives. Objective placement will also be very important. Ideally for me, I want the objectives out in the open so that I can shoot down any necron troops who try to take them. Necrons would want to spread out the objectives as they will have an easier time getting to the objectives than my mechdar. Target priority is very important in this game. You have to target the right units. My goal is to take out the mobility of the necron troops by shooting down his flyers and make them walk to the objectives. My opponent, if he is savvy, should try to take out my mobility as well to prevent me from getting to the objectives. Whoever makes the mistake in target prioritization will probably lose.

But the biggest X-factor in this game will probably be experience. I have much more experience playing competitive 40K than my opponent and I have much more experience with regards to necrons than my opponent as well. I know their strengths and their weaknesses as well. While my opponent has experience playing with and against my necrons, sometimes, you miss the subtleties of an army that you are not intimate with. His play, while probably steady, will probably not be highly optimized as well. You can bet I'll be taking advantage of that.

Advantage: Eldar


So IMO, it really is too close to call. I think this game will be a toss-up with the dice and perhaps mistakes dictating who the winner will be.

This will be my first time playing against the new Eldar codex. Ironically, Jy2 will be using my own models (which he just purchased) against me. I've heard about the Eldar's army wide enhancements and the monstrous Wraith Knight. After watching the game between Jy2 and GTKA666, I've realized how tricky Eldar can be with reserves and mobility.This is going to be a tough match up. Jy2's army has a ridiculous mount of fire power while the Necron list I'll be using only has a concentration in several Tesla weapons with more emphasis on assault. I don't have any tactics other than throw everything into the Eldar's front lines.

 SabrX wrote:
This will be my first time playing against the new Eldar codex. Ironically, Jy2 will be using my own models (which he just purchased) against me. I've heard about the Eldar's army wide enhancements and the monstrous Wraith Knight. After watching the game between Jy2 and GTKA666, I've realized how tricky Eldar can be with reserves and mobility.This is going to be a tough match up. Jy2's army has a ridiculous mount of fire power while the Necron list I'll be using only has a concentration in several Tesla weapons with more emphasis on assault. I don't have any tactics other than throw everything into the Eldar's front lines.

And a good tactic that is!

Let's go Necrons!

I had a game with that exact necron list vs my own Mechdar, and Mechdar won and pretty much tabled necrons in 3 turns, I called the end at turn 4 because Mechdar had all units left and necrons only had 2 flyers. (I proxyed all this with my GK and ork army LOL)

My test was at 1750, you easily find my list in my most recent thread.

I will keep a keen eye on this since I do plan to make one of these armies but I want to see your test before I start buying all these models.

 SabrX wrote:
This will be my first time playing against the new Eldar codex. Ironically, Jy2 will be using my own models (which he just purchased) against me. I've heard about the Eldar's army wide enhancements and the monstrous Wraith Knight. After watching the game between Jy2 and GTKA666, I've realized how tricky Eldar can be with reserves and mobility.This is going to be a tough match up. Jy2's army has a ridiculous mount of fire power while the Necron list I'll be using only has a concentration in several Tesla weapons with more emphasis on assault. I don't have any tactics other than throw everything into the Eldar's front lines.

Depending on the eldar compositiom and your army compisition that is what you should do. Most lists cant handle people n their face.

I think the Eldar could take this one. They definately have rate of fire on their side while the crons only really have 3 decent anti armour weapons on the board (unless night scythes have tesla as well?).

I would target the wraiths in the first turn with all the serpents and have the wraithknight hopefully pop a barge then turn on the sycthes and troops once they start turning up.

Warp spiders would deep strike to help take out the barges or wraiths.

 rohansoldier wrote:
I think the Eldar could take this one. They definately have rate of fire on their side while the crons only really have 3 decent anti armour weapons on the board (unless night scythes have tesla as well?).

I would target the wraiths in the first turn with all the serpents and have the wraithknight hopefully pop a barge then turn on the sycthes and troops once they start turning up.

Warp spiders would deep strike to help take out the barges or wraiths.

Nightscythes have the same twin-linked tesla destructor the Annihilation Barges have, so he has plenty of firepower to kill the Wave Serpents with. And Guided/Prescienced Warp Spiders are pretty good at taking down the Night Scythes as well.

 Marthike wrote:
I had a game with that exact necron list vs my own Mechdar, and Mechdar won and pretty much tabled necrons in 3 turns, I called the end at turn 4 because Mechdar had all units left and necrons only had 2 flyers. (I proxyed all this with my GK and ork army LOL)

My test was at 1750, you easily find my list in my most recent thread.

I will keep a keen eye on this since I do plan to make one of these armies but I want to see your test before I start buying all these models.

That is definitely possible if the wraiths are failing their saves (like when I faced a triple-riptide Tau army with my wraithwing crons). However, if wraiths are making their saves, it could be bad news for eldar. Also, don't under-estimate the tesla-destructors. I have seen many times just 1 tesla destructor destroying an AV12 vehicle. Granted, with 4+ cover due to holofields, it'll probably take at least 2 necrons vehicles with teslas to take down 1 serpent, but that could happen as well.

Both armies are competitive. I think you're going to have to decide which may be the funner army for you to play. In other words, which playstyle you would probably like more. Personally, I enjoy both, though I am still just getting a feel for mechdar while my necrons are semi-retired due to them being too strong in casual play.

GTKA666 wrote:

 SabrX wrote:
This will be my first time playing against the new Eldar codex. Ironically, Jy2 will be using my own models (which he just purchased) against me. I've heard about the Eldar's army wide enhancements and the monstrous Wraith Knight. After watching the game between Jy2 and GTKA666, I've realized how tricky Eldar can be with reserves and mobility.This is going to be a tough match up. Jy2's army has a ridiculous mount of fire power while the Necron list I'll be using only has a concentration in several Tesla weapons with more emphasis on assault. I don't have any tactics other than throw everything into the Eldar's front lines.

Depending on the eldar compositiom and your army compisition that is what you should do. Most lists cant handle people n their face.

You have to play aggressively with the necrons. IMO, they are at their best when you play them MTO-style (that's Maximum Threat Overload, or overloading your opponent with more threats than he can handle). Though against some armies, it may be better to hold them back a little for a Turn 2 Beta-strike when your flyers come in as well.

 rohansoldier wrote:
I think the Eldar could take this one. They definately have rate of fire on their side while the crons only really have 3 decent anti armour weapons on the board (unless night scythes have tesla as well?).

I would target the wraiths in the first turn with all the serpents and have the wraithknight hopefully pop a barge then turn on the sycthes and troops once they start turning up.

Warp spiders would deep strike to help take out the barges or wraiths.

Night scythes do have teslas so that is actually 7 tesla platforms on the necron side. That's actually enough to take out 3 wave serpents in 1 turn on a best-case scenario (i.e. all the scythes come in and have range and you roll slightly above average with the hits, getting some 6's in the process). Moreover, necron vehicles may actually be harder to kill because 1) they're either AV13 or 2) they are flyers.

As for your tactics, it is pretty spot-on. I do target the wraiths first (because shooting the AV13 barges is not efficient) and will be deepstriking my spiders to try to take down necron flyers or get rear shots on the barges.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Redemption wrote:

 rohansoldier wrote:
I think the Eldar could take this one. They definately have rate of fire on their side while the crons only really have 3 decent anti armour weapons on the board (unless night scythes have tesla as well?).

I would target the wraiths in the first turn with all the serpents and have the wraithknight hopefully pop a barge then turn on the sycthes and troops once they start turning up.

Warp spiders would deep strike to help take out the barges or wraiths.

Nightscythes have the same twin-linked tesla destructor the Annihilation Barges have, so he has plenty of firepower to kill the Wave Serpents with. And Guided/Prescienced Warp Spiders are pretty good at taking down the Night Scythes as well.

Right. Both armies have some resilient units and ironically, both armies have the tools to take down these resilient units. Spiders coming in near my farseer will get the benefit of Prescience and Guide. Teslas are a very good gun even against AV12.

I voted for the Mechdar.

As much as I'd like to see the Necrons take it, I just don't see that happening. Seems to me that there's just too much firepower in the Mechdar alpha strike. Invuls or no, at least one unit of wraiths is likely to go down in the first turn. And I'll be amazed if that Wraithknight can't drop at least one Annihilation Barge in the first two turns.

I expect Serpent Shields to stop any and all of those 6's to pen that the Tesla Destructors are gonna need, leaving only the option of glancing it to death (and that's a LOT of 5+ AP rolls).

Now, I don't know too much about Eldar, but the list here doesn't have much in the way of Skyfire, yeah? That feels like the only thing Necrons have going for them in this match-up.

Also, and most importantly, Warp Spiders scare the crap out of me.

I feel the MTO Necrons are past their prime. A more diverse Necron army would be a better choice. Remove one wraith unit and a D lord. Add in Zahndrekh and a walking immortal squad with a veil-tek. This gives you an incredibly mobile brick unit that can engage vehicles and foot units. Zahndrekh will also allow a tesla destructor to take out a serpent a turn with tank hunter.

Zahndrekh + immortals is a 3+ armor and 4+ WBB. The big Z can also tank some shots with his 2+\3+. This makes the unit very resilient to volume of fire shooting. Some people like to change Zahndrekh with an Overlord with the same wargear plus scarabs and warscythe for more of a fighting punch. I like tank hunter on tesla destructor to much, but one of the ways to counter this unit is to get the Wraithknight into assault with it. In that respect the mind shackle scarabs would be better and I might be coming around to that.

I think Eldar will take this match up, no problem. It has the mobility and VoF to destroy the wraiths +DL Lord at range. The WSs and Spiders also have the mobility to bypass the DL's ability to tank shot if they want, all their guns are wounding on 2's and they have pseudo-rending which will severely limit the DL's ability to tank shots. The annhilation barges are limited by their 24" range so can be avoided for a turn or 2, but the warp spiders + WS can probably take them down through weight of Str7 shots (ignoring cover for the WSs) plus the WraithKnights 2 Str 10 shots.

Trekend wrote:
I voted for the Mechdar.

As much as I'd like to see the Necrons take it, I just don't see that happening. Seems to me that there's just too much firepower in the Mechdar alpha strike. Invuls or no, at least one unit of wraiths is likely to go down in the first turn. And I'll be amazed if that Wraithknight can't drop at least one Annihilation Barge in the first two turns.

I expect Serpent Shields to stop any and all of those 6's to pen that the Tesla Destructors are gonna need, leaving only the option of glancing it to death (and that's a LOT of 5+ AP rolls).

Now, I don't know too much about Eldar, but the list here doesn't have much in the way of Skyfire, yeah? That feels like the only thing Necrons have going for them in this match-up.

Also, and most importantly, Warp Spiders scare the crap out of me.

Tbh the Eldar don't need skyfire as basically everything in the army is effectively twin-linked. The WSs fire the SL first (don't know what the odds of not getting a 6 on 4 dice with a re-roll is, but I imagine it's low) which then TL's the serpent shield and Shruiken cannon so you're looking at 7 TL Str6 Shots & 1+d6 Str 7 Ignoring Cover shots (per WS). Plus the farseer can guide/prescience the warpsiders so that's another 36 TL Str7 Shots.



ps. I like the deathmarks + veil cryptek w/abyssal staff, that is a nasty combo (even nastier in a night scythe) but I guess you need a Court to run one.

I voted Necrons. Though I think I voted wrongly as I didn't look at the lists before hand. If the Necrons were using mass av13, then yeah, Eldar would struggle and probably be beaten. As Necrons are using a gak ton of Wraiths, limited av13 and then many flyers I think Eldar will take it. I suspect the Eldar will cause massive dent in the Wraithwing providing the Eldar can get good LOS. I also suspect the Wraithknight may take down a AB turn.

Looking forward to seeing the result.

looking at the deployment it makes me think that you guys are big on civil war reenactments...

I'm surprised Eldar didn't deploy farther back or behind terrain but meh.

 mortetvie wrote:
looking at the deployment it makes me think that you guys are big on civil war reenactments...

I'm surprised Eldar didn't deploy farther back or behind terrain but meh.

He can move 6" and he needs to move even a little to get his cover save so as long as no wraith get a lucky 24" assault range (even that i dont think jy2 deployed on the 24" line)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If eldar got first turn its gonna be a much more different start.

60" serpent shields should be maintaining max range IMO. Barges can still cause big damage at 36" thanks to twin link and tesla rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
60" serpent shields should be maintaining max range IMO. Barges can still cause big damage at 36" thanks to twin link and tesla rules.

I voted crons, not my favorite style of list, but as long as they have 1st turn, i dont think the eldar will be able to chew through them all before they hit those serpents and pry them open, especially with 1st turn to the crons. The aggressive eldar deployment also will undoubtably help the necrons negate their opponent's range advantage.

VoF is nice against fliers, but having nothing with skyfire might end up being a problem for the eldar, additionally, they don't have a ton of lances or dedicated anti-armor weaponry to handle the barges minus the wraithknight.

DarthDiggler wrote:
I feel the MTO Necrons are past their prime. A more diverse Necron army would be a better choice. Remove one wraith unit and a D lord. Add in Zahndrekh and a walking immortal squad with a veil-tek. This gives you an incredibly mobile brick unit that can engage vehicles and foot units. Zahndrekh will also allow a tesla destructor to take out a serpent a turn with tank hunter.

Zahndrekh + immortals is a 3+ armor and 4+ WBB. The big Z can also tank some shots with his 2+\3+. This makes the unit very resilient to volume of fire shooting. Some people like to change Zahndrekh with an Overlord with the same wargear plus scarabs and warscythe for more of a fighting punch. I like tank hunter on tesla destructor to much, but one of the ways to counter this unit is to get the Wraithknight into assault with it. In that respect the mind shackle scarabs would be better and I might be coming around to that.

Was thinking about that (Zandrekh's unit + veil-tek). However, I really don't play my necrons that much any more - only if requested by an opponent (though I would consider running them for a tournament).

And MTO necrons are definitely NOT past their prime. The new trend right now is allies and everyone's busy playing the new armies, but I guarantee you that MTO necrons can still compete with any army thrown their way.

 CaptainJay wrote:

Tbh the Eldar don't need skyfire as basically everything in the army is effectively twin-linked. The WSs fire the SL first (don't know what the odds of not getting a 6 on 4 dice with a re-roll is, but I imagine it's low) which then TL's the serpent shield and Shruiken cannon so you're looking at 7 TL Str6 Shots & 1+d6 Str 7 Ignoring Cover shots (per WS). Plus the farseer can guide/prescience the warpsiders so that's another 36 TL Str7 Shots.


ps. I like the deathmarks + veil cryptek w/abyssal staff, that is a nasty combo (even nastier in a night scythe) but I guess you need a Court to run one.

Agreed. Eldar has so much high-strength twin-linking shots that they don't really need skyfire. However, if I were to put skyfire in my eldar army, it would probably be a unit of 5 Dark Reapers with a Fast Shot Exarch on an Icarus Lascannon. I may even consider throwing in a farseer (without the Mantle) with them especially if he gets the Perfect Timing psychic power.

But then, that would be a whole different army. I probably wouldn't be running a true mechdar build in that case.

The deathmark is a good unit. I would actually get it if I was still playing my necrons a lot. Alas, my focus is on my other armies.

 mortetvie wrote:
looking at the deployment it makes me think that you guys are big on civil war reenactments...

I'm surprised Eldar didn't deploy farther back or behind terrain but meh.

Like I said, I'm still new with them. Only my 2nd game.

But I'm sure I will learn...

 Marthike wrote:

 mortetvie wrote:
looking at the deployment it makes me think that you guys are big on civil war reenactments...

I'm surprised Eldar didn't deploy farther back or behind terrain but meh.

He can move 6" and he needs to move even a little to get his cover save so as long as no wraith get a lucky 24" assault range (even that i dont think jy2 deployed on the 24" line)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If eldar got first turn its gonna be a much more different start.

Yeah, I did deploy on the deployment line. My reasons for doing so was so that I would have more space to retreat and shoot. Also, this would ensure I get to fire my Shuriken Cannons at full BS by moving 6". I honestly didn't think SabrX would bullrush me like that. I was thinking he'd probably hide behind the central LOS-blocking terrain for perhaps 1 turn. Then when his flyers come in on T2, go all out. If he did this and I deployed too far back, there's a chance I wouldn't be able to see or shoot at his guys (also due to Night-fight).

But then my opponent played very boldly, got some great run rolls and his D-lord tanked a lot of shots.

Yeah, if eldar went first, it'll probably be a much different game, though the way my opponent was making his saves, I had a feeling it would be one of those games. But that extra turn of shooting would have definitely helped, as long as I could protect the objectives from the last turn objective-grab by his troops in their flyers.

 hyv3mynd wrote:
60" serpent shields should be maintaining max range IMO. Barges can still cause big damage at 36" thanks to twin link and tesla rules.

However, that would mean that they won't be able to use their shuri-cannons.

But still, I should have deployed out of their range on T1. After I get First Blood, I wouldn't care that much if I lost a serpent or 2 to teslas.

A couple cannon shots are not worth putting your whole army in danger. You had range and mobility and going second to see how he deployed. Your skimmers can move 12" and fire two weapons at full bs. That's a mistake that could cost the whole game.

Questions: I didnt think you could cast blessings on units coming in from reserve as the rule only states you can choose the order of the dice roll to determine which units come in, and/or cast, but actually moving them on to the table is in the movement phase which is after the casting phase. <ponder>
Also, I didnt realize the WK is a character (issued a challenge)... I thought it wasnt, that only the WL was a character...

 hyv3mynd wrote:
A couple cannon shots are not worth putting your whole army in danger. You had range and mobility and going second to see how he deployed. Your skimmers can move 12" and fire two weapons at full bs. That's a mistake that could cost the whole game.

Didn't matter. He would've been on me no matter how far back I deployed, especially the way he was making his saves. He already gave me an extra turn to shoot at his wraiths by going after my guardians instead of my serpents.

Moridan wrote:
Questions: I didnt think you could cast blessings on units coming in from reserve as the rule only states you can choose the order of the dice roll to determine which units come in, and/or cast, but actually moving them on to the table is in the movement phase which is after the casting phase. <ponder>
Also, I didnt realize the WK is a character (issued a challenge)... I thought it wasnt, that only the WL was a character...

Yes you can. Reserve rolls are done at the beginning of the turn and then reserves come in at the beginning of the Movement phase. Maledictions and Blessings actually occur at the beginning of the Movement phase. The recent BRB FAQ then lets you pick the order of which you want to do first. The only exception is that a unit that just came in from reserves cannot cast the psychic powers that needs to be cast at the beginning of Movement. However, a psyker already on the table could cast it on a recently arrived reserve unit.

As for the WK, you are right. I made a mistake. He is not a character. Still wouldn't have changed his fate though.

Lists like these provoke such bad play. When armies are min maxed and spammed to a high degree players seem to just flip on auto pilot for their armies and never really plan their turns well. Then to compound matters, when they make an error, they multiply it X times do to the nature of their list. I feel like in this match its mostly due to both players unfamiliarity with the armies they are using however.

I see several sloppy errors already by turn 2 from deployment on. This just seems like Yahtzee at the moment. I hope one of you guys pulls some stops out soon. It's still early in the game, at least both sides have made mistakes so it seems neck and neck still. SabreX is winning at Yahtzee so far though.

Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

To be concluded....

Is the Wraithknight a character? Or did I misunderstood it when you said it issued a challenge.

wighti wrote:
Is the Wraithknight a character? Or did I misunderstood it when you said it issued a challenge.

It was my mistake. I thought he was a character.

Deployment Review (this is all just my own opinion and take as a Monday morning QB so please take this review as friendly critizism)

Necrons:

Should have deployed tighter considering the eldar have no template weapons anyway. This does two things, gets more wraith bodies closer to space elves but more importantly gets his AB's MUCH closer so that on turn 1 he doesn't need to move over 6" and can fire at full BS on the eldar tanks. Which takes us to....

Eldar:

Going second means you can counter deploy. Elves should have done this, all 5 WS deploy as far back as possible and as much toward one flank as possible. Hopefully taking one AB out of the fight for 2 turns. Wraith knight deploys at the top of the zone front and center to provoke poor play from the Necrons, instigating AB fire his way if they take the bait, other wise he pops barges and waits to flank charge the unit of wraiths that heads passed him for the WS first, thus "corking" the path and tying them up.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

As for jy2's deployment, your wraiths running 5-6" only illustrates why he shouldn't have deployed where he had. Honestly, this is why you need to know when to use the "dong" canon and when not too. Its another 15 s6 shots when you need it, but you shouldn't sacrifice unit safety to get those shots early on.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

Sacrificing a whole unit of Wraiths + Warlord on bottom of turn 2 to kill off a couple of Wave Serpents isn't a good idea in the long run. Guardians aren't that far from the objectives and could easily reach it. By then, I would have had one full strength Wraith unit, 1 Destroyer Lord, 1 depleted Wraith unit left, which would have been stuck in combat with the Wraith Knight. They definitely aren't enough to combat Jy2's remaining troops and Warp Spyders. I need my Destroyer Lords to tank those shots and leave the tank hunting to the Night Scythes and Barges.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Deployment Review (this is all just my own opinion and take as a Monday morning QB so please take this review as friendly critizism)

Necrons:

Should have deployed tighter considering the eldar have no template weapons anyway. This does two things, gets more wraith bodies closer to space elves but more importantly gets his AB's MUCH closer so that on turn 1 he doesn't need to move over 6" and can fire at full BS on the eldar tanks. Which takes us to....

Eldar:

Going second means you can counter deploy. Elves should have done this, all 5 WS deploy as far back as possible and as much toward one flank as possible. Hopefully taking one AB out of the fight for 2 turns. Wraith knight deploys at the top of the zone front and center to provoke poor play from the Necrons, instigating AB fire his way if they take the bait, other wise he pops barges and waits to flank charge the unit of wraiths that heads passed him for the WS first, thus "corking" the path and tying them up.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

As for jy2's deployment, your wraiths running 5-6" only illustrates why he shouldn't have deployed where he had. Honestly, this is why you need to know when to use the "dong" canon and when not too. Its another 15 s6 shots when you need it, but you shouldn't sacrifice unit safety to get those shots early on.

This.

Hammer/anvil, night fight, second turn. Eldar had everything they needed to make this "auto-win". Even enoug range and space for serpents to be out of range of arriving flyers. They can kite wraiths for two turns and apply the WK as a speedbump when the time is right.

It also shows the weakness of such a spammy list with only a WK for counter assault.

This game was a gift to the necrons.

Moridan wrote:
Questions: I didnt think you could cast blessings on units coming in from reserve as the rule only states you can choose the order of the dice roll to determine which units come in, and/or cast, but actually moving them on to the table is in the movement phase which is after the casting phase. <ponder>
Also, I didnt realize the WK is a character (issued a challenge)... I thought it wasnt, that only the WL was a character...

Yes you can. Reserve rolls are done at the beginning of the turn and then reserves come in at the beginning of the Movement phase. Maledictions and Blessings actually occur at the beginning of the Movement phase. The recent BRB FAQ then lets you pick the order of which you want to do first. The only exception is that a unit that just came in from reserves cannot cast the psychic powers that needs to be cast at the beginning of Movement. However, a psyker already on the table could cast it on a recently arrived reserve unit.

As for the WK, you are right. I made a mistake. He is not a character. Still wouldn't have changed his fate though.

 SabrX wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

Sacrificing a whole unit of Wraiths + Warlord on bottom of turn 2 to kill off a couple of Wave Serpents isn't a good idea in the long run. Guardians aren't that far from the objectives and could easily reach it. By then, I would have had one full strength Wraith unit, 1 Destroyer Lord, 1 depleted Wraith unit left, which would have been stuck in combat with the Wraith Knight. They definitely aren't enough to combat Jy2's remaining troops and Warp Spyders. I need my Destroyer Lords to tank those shots and leave the tank hunting to the Night Scythes and Barges.

+1 for accurate tactics, you should play necrons more!!

 hyv3mynd wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Deployment Review (this is all just my own opinion and take as a Monday morning QB so please take this review as friendly critizism)

Necrons:

Should have deployed tighter considering the eldar have no template weapons anyway. This does two things, gets more wraith bodies closer to space elves but more importantly gets his AB's MUCH closer so that on turn 1 he doesn't need to move over 6" and can fire at full BS on the eldar tanks. Which takes us to....

Eldar:

Going second means you can counter deploy. Elves should have done this, all 5 WS deploy as far back as possible and as much toward one flank as possible. Hopefully taking one AB out of the fight for 2 turns. Wraith knight deploys at the top of the zone front and center to provoke poor play from the Necrons, instigating AB fire his way if they take the bait, other wise he pops barges and waits to flank charge the unit of wraiths that heads passed him for the WS first, thus "corking" the path and tying them up.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

As for jy2's deployment, your wraiths running 5-6" only illustrates why he shouldn't have deployed where he had. Honestly, this is why you need to know when to use the "dong" canon and when not too. Its another 15 s6 shots when you need it, but you shouldn't sacrifice unit safety to get those shots early on.

This.

Hammer/anvil, night fight, second turn. Eldar had everything they needed to make this "auto-win". Even enoug range and space for serpents to be out of range of arriving flyers. They can kite wraiths for two turns and apply the WK as a speedbump when the time is right.

It also shows the weakness of such a spammy list with only a WK for counter assault.

This game was a gift to the necrons.

Again, this.

Better deployment would have denied the barges and the flyers their first turn of shooting, starving the Necrons of first blood and giving the Eldar much more dakka to throw around.

The Crons got some lucky dice but the Eldar made so many noob mistakes that better roles would not have compensated.

I really hope you guys redo this game, this had the potential to be such an epic rep.

 hyv3mynd wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Deployment Review (this is all just my own opinion and take as a Monday morning QB so please take this review as friendly critizism)

Necrons:

Should have deployed tighter considering the eldar have no template weapons anyway. This does two things, gets more wraith bodies closer to space elves but more importantly gets his AB's MUCH closer so that on turn 1 he doesn't need to move over 6" and can fire at full BS on the eldar tanks. Which takes us to....

Eldar:

Going second means you can counter deploy. Elves should have done this, all 5 WS deploy as far back as possible and as much toward one flank as possible. Hopefully taking one AB out of the fight for 2 turns. Wraith knight deploys at the top of the zone front and center to provoke poor play from the Necrons, instigating AB fire his way if they take the bait, other wise he pops barges and waits to flank charge the unit of wraiths that heads passed him for the WS first, thus "corking" the path and tying them up.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

As for jy2's deployment, your wraiths running 5-6" only illustrates why he shouldn't have deployed where he had. Honestly, this is why you need to know when to use the "dong" canon and when not too. Its another 15 s6 shots when you need it, but you shouldn't sacrifice unit safety to get those shots early on.

This.

Hammer/anvil, night fight, second turn. Eldar had everything they needed to make this "auto-win". Even enoug range and space for serpents to be out of range of arriving flyers. They can kite wraiths for two turns and apply the WK as a speedbump when the time is right.

It also shows the weakness of such a spammy list with only a WK for counter assault.

This game was a gift to the necrons.

I disagree that the list was a gift to the Necrons, i see a ton of mistakes on eldar side at the start:

Why the hell would you want Warpspiders in reserve, they are very fast and capable of firing turn one, you need them on the table to maximize threats and Volume of Fire.
The seer should stay with them for guide and presience, be sure some are going to doubt very hard on what to attack or shoot at and there are no good choices.
Wraiths can be speedshot by guardians, when they come to close, get them out and optimize fire and serpent shots, its a lot of shots, you might be able to almose wipe out the units.
I still think that the Wraithknight needs a suncannon and 5++ to get the most out of him.

my 2 cents, trying to be constructive, altough these are some hars points to take and as always the critics are easier afterwards.

I have to agree with the criticism of jy2's deployment, but hes a hustler and I wouldnt write off the space elves yet.
This is probably the point at which jy2 gets his wallet out and says "shall we make things interesting".

Laughing God doesn't give EW and Farseers don't have it, right? So shouldn't a Wraith insta-gib a farseer?

edit: Jetbike. NM.

Good report, but I'll jump on the deployment bandwagon. Use your mobility!

 jy2 wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:
A couple cannon shots are not worth putting your whole army in danger. You had range and mobility and going second to see how he deployed. Your skimmers can move 12" and fire two weapons at full bs. That's a mistake that could cost the whole game.

Didn't matter. He would've been on me no matter how far back I deployed, especially the way he was making his saves. He already gave me an extra turn to shoot at his wraiths by going after my guardians instead of my serpents.

Moridan wrote:
Questions: I didnt think you could cast blessings on units coming in from reserve as the rule only states you can choose the order of the dice roll to determine which units come in, and/or cast, but actually moving them on to the table is in the movement phase which is after the casting phase. <ponder>
Also, I didnt realize the WK is a character (issued a challenge)... I thought it wasnt, that only the WL was a character...

Yes you can. Reserve rolls are done at the beginning of the turn and then reserves come in at the beginning of the Movement phase. Maledictions and Blessings actually occur at the beginning of the Movement phase. The recent BRB FAQ then lets you pick the order of which you want to do first. The only exception is that a unit that just came in from reserves cannot cast the psychic powers that needs to be cast at the beginning of Movement. However, a psyker already on the table could cast it on a recently arrived reserve unit.

As for the WK, you are right. I made a mistake. He is not a character. Still wouldn't have changed his fate though.

The WK isn't a character, but since this list isn't making any use of Runes of Battle you can easily change to use the Iyanden supplement. That would let you choose the WK as your Warlord (still in Heavy), which against some armies is incredibly useful, Chaos in particular just cry because all their expensive characters can't refuse challenges.

And sadly you still can't case Blessings and Maledictions on units that arrive from reserves. Note that the FAQ lets you ROLL for reserves before casting psychic powers, but since you roll and THEN move onto the board (as in its two distinct steps) it doesn't work as you suggest. Yet another reason why Deep Striking Spiders is a very very situational tactic (they are doing most of your damage and would have been well within range turn 1 after that Wraith zerg). To beat Wraithwing you have to be able to deal with 2 out of the 3 elements (Wraiths/Barges/Scythes), and at the moment you are struggling to deal with even a single element

Powerguy wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:
A couple cannon shots are not worth putting your whole army in danger. You had range and mobility and going second to see how he deployed. Your skimmers can move 12" and fire two weapons at full bs. That's a mistake that could cost the whole game.

Didn't matter. He would've been on me no matter how far back I deployed, especially the way he was making his saves. He already gave me an extra turn to shoot at his wraiths by going after my guardians instead of my serpents.

Moridan wrote:
Questions: I didnt think you could cast blessings on units coming in from reserve as the rule only states you can choose the order of the dice roll to determine which units come in, and/or cast, but actually moving them on to the table is in the movement phase which is after the casting phase. <ponder>
Also, I didnt realize the WK is a character (issued a challenge)... I thought it wasnt, that only the WL was a character...

Yes you can. Reserve rolls are done at the beginning of the turn and then reserves come in at the beginning of the Movement phase. Maledictions and Blessings actually occur at the beginning of the Movement phase. The recent BRB FAQ then lets you pick the order of which you want to do first. The only exception is that a unit that just came in from reserves cannot cast the psychic powers that needs to be cast at the beginning of Movement. However, a psyker already on the table could cast it on a recently arrived reserve unit.

As for the WK, you are right. I made a mistake. He is not a character. Still wouldn't have changed his fate though.

The WK isn't a character, but since this list isn't making any use of Runes of Battle you can easily change to use the Iyanden supplement. That would let you choose the WK as your Warlord (still in Heavy), which against some armies is incredibly useful, Chaos in particular just cry because all their expensive characters can't refuse challenges.

And sadly you still can't case Blessings and Maledictions on units that arrive from reserves. Note that the FAQ lets you ROLL for reserves before casting psychic powers, but since you roll and THEN move onto the board (as in its two distinct steps) it doesn't work as you suggest. Yet another reason why Deep Striking Spiders is a very very situational tactic (they are doing most of your damage and would have been well within range turn 1 after that Wraith zerg). To beat Wraithwing you have to be able to deal with 2 out of the 3 elements (Wraiths/Barges/Scythes), and at the moment you are struggling to deal with even a single element

if this is true then I have been had in jim's and mine eldar vs eldar game! I would have thought you would be able to cast blessings on units that arrived from reserves..since it makes sense and that must mean its wrong because GW always makes rules that do not make sense.

Casting a blessing on a unit which just arrived from reserve, is the same as moving a unit into range of the Farseer before casting; you have completed a units move and are no longer "at the begining of the movement phase".

Powerguy wrote:

And sadly you still can't case Blessings and Maledictions on units that arrive from reserves. Note that the FAQ lets you ROLL for reserves before casting psychic powers, but since you roll and THEN move onto the board (as in its two distinct steps) it doesn't work as you suggest. Yet another reason why Deep Striking Spiders is a very very situational tactic (they are doing most of your damage and would have been well within range turn 1 after that Wraith zerg). To beat Wraithwing you have to be able to deal with 2 out of the 3 elements (Wraiths/Barges/Scythes), and at the moment you are struggling to deal with even a single element

You need to prove to me why this is illegal.

Coming in from reserves happens at the beginning of the Movement phase.

Casting Blessings/Maledictions happens at the beginning of the Movement phase.

Both occurs at the same time. The FAQ then tells us we can choose to apply whichever first.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Casting a blessing on a unit which just arrived from reserve, is the same as moving a unit into range of the Farseer before casting; you have completed a units move and are no longer "at the begining of the movement phase".

Again, this is wrong. Why is the beginning of the Movement phase over when 1 unit comes in from reserves. Since psychic powers are cast at the beginning of the Movement phase, does that mean the beginning of the movement phase is over once I cast my psychic powers? For that matter, 1 unit comes in from reserves. Does that mean the beginning of the Movement phase is done and no other units can come in from reserves because it is no longer the beginning of the Movement phase?

Moreover, if it is no longer the beginning of the Movement phase, then I should be able to move my normal guys first and then deepstrike/outflank my reserves thereafters, right? Wrong.

I guarantee you that if you try such a move in a tournament (bringing in your reserves and then casting a psychic power on them), they will rule it legal. Still doubtful? Then go ask in YMDC.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I have to agree with the criticism of jy2's deployment, but hes a hustler and I wouldnt write off the space elves yet.
This is probably the point at which jy2 gets his wallet out and says "shall we make things interesting".

Lol. I might just add this to my signature.

Moridan wrote:

Good to know that about the order of powers. I read that in the FAQ but to me if you cant cast powers when you first deepstrike... how can you can powers ON something that just deepstruck... but hey, if thats how they play it in tourneys, thats good for me.

Yeah, sometimes GW rules doesn't really make sense logic-wise. There's just a bunch of these silly inconsistencies in the rules but them are da rules.

And do take it to YMDC; let's not clutter this thread further. It's enough to know that most US tournaments are allowing you to cast on units arriving from Reserves, based on the FAQ ruling.

Games is going sort of how I expected. Did not expect the wraiths to live though haha. Tesla rolling good outpaces serpent shields rolling good. Letting tesla get the alpha and beta strike was a mistake;p. one I'm sure you won't make again. Can't wait to see how the space elf's pull themselves out of this.

Would love to see a new version without the (in hindsight at least) obvious mistakes:

- Deployment: the only excuse to deploy like that is if you go first (and even then, why would you against an assault army?). But I am guessing that won't happen again
- Reserves: I find it hardly ever better to reserve Warp spiders. Only reasons being you fear them to be wiped turn 1 or there are no targets for them (both not the case here). In this game they should have been there to help whittle down the Wraiths.

Shame though, would have loved to see how the two lists would compare, but it does show that no matter how good the list you still need a good general*

* please know I mean this in jest, I appreciate the battle reports and know that these mistakes are inevitable when changing armies. Also we often learn more from our mistakes and I like that you allow us to see the ones you make so we can all learn and avoid them ourselves (still need to teach myself not to forget to battle focus back my war walkers after they shoot ).

Ok, this is a review of the game so far.

Mistakes that I have made:

1. Deployed my wave serpents too close. I agree with the criticisms here. At the very least, I should have stayed out of testa-destructor range (that's 12" move + 24" range).

2. Letting my farseer get assaulted. Just a small mistake, not a major one.

3. Thinking that my wraith knight was a character, though I really had no choice but to assault the wraithstar. Otherwise, it would have ate up several units.

4. Forgetting that my Warlord can Hit-&-Run due to his wargear.


Mistakes that I don't agree with:

- Deploying the spiders on the board. The firepower is good, but more importantly to me is their positioning. I need a way to threaten my opponent's backfield. You will see as the report goes on.


As for my opponent, he did make some mistakes as well, though he had his reasons for playing the way he did just as I had for playing the way I did. It is a learning game for the both of us.

 SabrX wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

Sacrificing a whole unit of Wraiths + Warlord on bottom of turn 2 to kill off a couple of Wave Serpents isn't a good idea in the long run. Guardians aren't that far from the objectives and could easily reach it. By then, I would have had one full strength Wraith unit, 1 Destroyer Lord, 1 depleted Wraith unit left, which would have been stuck in combat with the Wraith Knight. They definitely aren't enough to combat Jy2's remaining troops and Warp Spyders. I need my Destroyer Lords to tank those shots and leave the tank hunting to the Night Scythes and Barges.

This is what I would have done were I playing my necrons.

I would have positioned my lead wraithstar (with the Warlord) in such a position that they can go after either the serpents or the guardians. If done properly, he should be about 6-7" away from the serpents and about 4" from the pinned guardians. Then charge the smaller unit of 2 wraiths into the guardians. Once they make their charge - and they did without any damage from Overwatch - I would have then went after the serpents with a potential multi-assault from the wraithstar. You really don't need 2 units of wraiths to wipe out those guardians. The smaller wraith unit should be enough to wipe them out or at the very least, prevent them from shooting next turn. So this way, you can potentially take out 2-3 units - the guardians and 1 or maybe even 2 serpents. Then if you fail the charge, then it is no different from what happened in our game. The Warlord's unit would still be out in the open for my entire army to shoot.

Don't forget about the possible residual damage that an exploding serpent can do - killing guardians, pinning them or even forcing them to fall back and possibly off the board.

 Valek wrote:
I disagree that the list was a gift to the Necrons, i see a ton of mistakes on eldar side at the start:

Why the hell would you want Warpspiders in reserve, they are very fast and capable of firing turn one, you need them on the table to maximize threats and Volume of Fire.
The seer should stay with them for guide and presience, be sure some are going to doubt very hard on what to attack or shoot at and there are no good choices.
Wraiths can be speedshot by guardians, when they come to close, get them out and optimize fire and serpent shots, its a lot of shots, you might be able to almose wipe out the units.
I still think that the Wraithknight needs a suncannon and 5++ to get the most out of him.

my 2 cents, trying to be constructive, altough these are some hars points to take and as always the critics are easier afterwards.

While I agree that this game is NOT a gift to the necrons, I disagree that the warp spiders NEED to be deployed on the table. Honestly, if I wanted to play the spiders like that, I would have just dropped them for 6 scatter-walkers. IMO, playing the spiders as part of a gunline eldar is not making full use of their abilities (though I'm not saying it couldn't be done effectively). I see them more as a surgical hit-&-retreat unit used to pick off units tactically.

Moreover, with necrons going first, my opponent has the opportunity to alpha-strike them (the spiders) hard when his flyers come in and he focuses his AB's on them as well.

Then again, this is only my 2nd game with them. I may change my tune later on with further play-testing. Until then, I stand by my decision to reserve them, at least in this game, as a sound one. You will see.

Chancetragedy wrote:
Games is going sort of how I expected. Did not expect the wraiths to live though haha. Tesla rolling good outpaces serpent shields rolling good. Letting tesla get the alpha and beta strike was a mistake;p. one I'm sure you won't make again. Can't wait to see how the space elf's pull themselves out of this.

Letting teslas get the alpha-strike was definitely a mistake. However, I really couldn't do anything against their beta-strike. They would have been able to get into range no matter where I moved my serpents by then. It was just a matter of him rolling well with their shooting on T2 and me failing most of my 4+ jinks. Nothing could have been done against that.

@Jy2 yah that's what I mean. The beta strike was coming but you gave up the alpha too. I didn't mean it as a put down more of a joke about letting him have both instead of using your range to get the first strike off. I still think the mechdar have a shot, it will be rough though after those first couple turns.

No worries. And I don't see any of these comments as a put down or a joke, even the ones I don't agree with.

I don't see how eldar can make a comeback but anything is possible... Especially for jy2!

Agree dozer, after his battle report against triptide tau I don't put anything past him or his opponents.

Deployment:
Games are won or lost with deployment (especially with Eldar) so glad people finally saw I was right .

Shuriken Cannon upgrade:
The Shruiken Cannon upgrades are "meh" as you either need to move 6" to fire everything or be in 24" and that seldom comes into play for me as I am generally moving 12" to get into good positions/kite and am keeping the opponent out of range.

I recommend ONLY getting Shuriken Cannon upgrades on serpents that will get close to other units (like ones delivering close ranged units) or if you have nothing else to spend points on. Seriously, staying out of range/danger>extra 3 shots. =)

Serpent Shield/serpent survivability:
I generally only like to drop my shield when I will know the extra shots are going to do some damage (like against weak armor save units in cover/light vehicles/the Scatter Lasers hit against a Flyer/FMC). Otherwise, I tend to keep them up when I know I will be potentially facing a lot of incoming fire. Also, I see no reason not to try to at least get some cover from ruins/hills as that 4+ cover goes to 3+. There is also nothing wrong with moving/turbo-boosting the heck out of there to put a lot of distance between you and opponent-sure you lose a turn of shooting but you also essentially force your opponent's forces that are closing in on you to be in a position like they were in deployment/turn 1.

Dealing with Wraiths:
Other than that, when I face hard units like Wraithspam, I try really hard to get Misfortune and roll on the Divination table like crazy to get it =).


Reserves:
Regarding the reserves issue, the FAQ says reserve ROLLS are made at beginning of the turn but does not address when reserves actually come on the board so it's still unclear even after GW's faq =(. Basically, I just clarify the rules with TOs before the tournament so there are no issues as TOs can run rules however they want. No point arguing when it can go either way.

Yea I have to agree reserving the spiders was smart in this game, he needs them to hit rear armor and take down scythes and their is no better way to due this then drop in behind them the turn after they arrive. It also makes the necron player decide whether they want to go back and deal with an expendable unit or continue being harassed from behind. I do think using DS as a default strategy is a mistake but against NS and hell turkeys I believe it's the best move.

However I am starting to think star engines are better then the SC as it would allow the WS to fire from long range until threatened and then boost over and well out of the threat range of the wraiths for example in this game. I think it also ensures in most games you can grab an objective in 2 turns rather then 3 when the deployment is hammer and anvil. The SC seems fine on WS carrying things like fire dragons and storm guardians though.

 mortetvie wrote:
Deployment:
Games are won or lost with deployment (especially with Eldar) so glad people finally saw I was right .

Shuriken Cannon upgrade:
The Shruiken Cannon upgrades are "meh" as you either need to move 6" to fire everything or be in 24" and that seldom comes into play for me as I am generally moving 12" to get into good positions/kite and am keeping the opponent out of range.

I recommend ONLY getting Shuriken Cannon upgrades on serpents that will get close to other units (like ones delivering close ranged units) or if you have nothing else to spend points on. Seriously, staying out of range/danger>extra 3 shots. =)

Serpent Shield/serpent survivability:
I generally only like to drop my shield when I will know the extra shots are going to do some damage (like against weak armor save units in cover/light vehicles/the Scatter Lasers hit against a Flyer/FMC). Otherwise, I tend to keep them up when I know I will be potentially facing a lot of incoming fire. Also, I see no reason not to try to at least get some cover from ruins/hills as that 4+ cover goes to 3+. There is also nothing wrong with moving/turbo-boosting the heck out of there to put a lot of distance between you and opponent-sure you lose a turn of shooting but you also essentially force your opponent's forces that are closing in on you to be in a position like they were in deployment/turn 1.

Dealing with Wraiths:
Other than that, when I face hard units like Wraithspam, I try really hard to get Misfortune and roll on the Divination table like crazy to get it =).


Reserves:
Regarding the reserves issue, the FAQ says reserve ROLLS are made at beginning of the turn but does not address when reserves actually come on the board so it's still unclear even after GW's faq =(. Basically, I just clarify the rules with TOs before the tournament so there are no issues as TOs can run rules however they want. No point arguing when it can go either way.

Thank you for taking the time to share your insights on the new eldar. I've heard a lot about your skills as an eldar player. Maybe one of these days we can get a game on if we ever meet in a West Coast tournament (i.e. BAO or the Las Vegas Open) or perhaps when I am down in SoCal.

Shuriken Cannons I will decide whether I want to keep or not after some more play-testing. I do see its advantages and disadvantages. Dropping them for more spiders do sound very tempting however.

It's hard not to use the Serpent Shield offensively against an army such as my wraithwing crons. I need all the firepower I can get! Besides, I am more concerned about his teslas glancing me to death then I am about them exploding my serpents. And as it turned out, the majority of his serpent kills were from glances more than anything else.

Getting Misfortune would be great. I only rolled once for Runes of Fate powers to try to get Doom and when I didn't get it, took Guide instead. I then rolled for my 2 other powers on Divination. I feel that is the best way to do it.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea I have to agree reserving the spiders was smart in this game, he needs them to hit rear armor and take down scythes and their is no better way to due this then drop in behind them the turn after they arrive. It also makes the necron player decide whether they want to go back and deal with an expendable unit or continue being harassed from behind. I do think using DS as a default strategy is a mistake but against NS and hell turkeys I believe it's the best move.

However I am starting to think star engines are better then the SC as it would allow the WS to fire from long range until threatened and then boost over and well out of the threat range of the wraiths for example in this game. I think it also ensures in most games you can grab an objective in 2 turns rather then 3 when the deployment is hammer and anvil. The SC seems fine on WS carrying things like fire dragons and storm guardians though.

I may experiment with star engines. I could've used them in this game to get away!

I will be up in the Pleasanton area for the Golden Throne GT if you wana get a game in on Thursday/Friday night or the weekend thereafter =). Otherwise, I would totally be down for a game should we ever cross paths!

Regarding Eldar and your game/current meta:
I think that Cron air with Wraithspam; Flying Circus demons/CSM; Sabre spamming IG; and, other mechdar, are probably going to be the biggest threats for Eldar in general. Tau are not too bad because you can generally out range/maneuver them and pull their tricks against them. So your game in this battle report is against what I would consider a relatively tough match-up because Telsa spam and Wraiths are so deadly and if dice are hot or cold then that can end the game right there =(.

I think if I play against similar list as you have played here I would focus down the Wraith unit with no Necron lord in it first then move a serpent to block line of sight to a necron lord in a wraith unit and light up the other wraiths so no tanking shots for the lord (out of los means he can't be allocated wounds). I also tend to run a unit of D-Scythe wraithguard so once wraiths get close enough I use those to hopefully light up the Wraiths and hope the Necron lord fails a LOS for any 6s to wound I roll =). Regardless, it definitely seemed like the dice were not in your favor this game!

Battle report completed.

Well that was completely unexpected. Despite tremendous bad luck on Jy2's part such as:
-Early high run moves on Wraiths
-My Necron Overlord tanking ton load of damage in a single turn.
-Scaring off a whole unit of Guardians with a lone single wounded Wraith
-Jy2 failing 3/4 3+ saves on is Jetbikes

Jy2 some how manage to pull out a draw. I'm not sure if him remembering his Farseer has hit and run would have made a difference. That punk manage to survive prolong combat against my Wraiths and might have won.

Well done Jy2! I can accept those results.

Edit:

A lot of people mentioned how deploying far back and kiting might have made a difference. My Wraiths hardly touched Jy2's Wave Serpents. It was the Tesla Destructors from my Night Scythes and barges that took out Jy2's mobility. Argument is moot I suppose.

 mortetvie wrote:
I will be up in the Pleasanton area for the Golden Throne GT if you wana get a game in on Thursday/Friday night or the weekend thereafter =). Otherwise, I would totally be down for a game should we ever cross paths!

Regarding Eldar and your game/current meta:
I think that Cron air with Wraithspam; Flying Circus demons/CSM; Sabre spamming IG; and, other mechdar, are probably going to be the biggest threats for Eldar in general. Tau are not too bad because you can generally out range/maneuver them and pull their tricks against them. So your game in this battle report is against what I would consider a relatively tough match-up because Telsa spam and Wraiths are so deadly and if dice are hot or cold then that can end the game right there =(.

I think if I play against similar list as you have played here I would focus down the Wraith unit with no Necron lord in it first then move a serpent to block line of sight to a necron lord in a wraith unit and light up the other wraiths so no tanking shots for the lord (out of los means he can't be allocated wounds). I also tend to run a unit of D-Scythe wraithguard so once wraiths get close enough I use those to hopefully light up the Wraiths and hope the Necron lord fails a LOS for any 6s to wound I roll =). Regardless, it definitely seemed like the dice were not in your favor this game!

Sure. Just give me a PM when the time gets closer.

Yeah, tesla actually did the most damage in this game. It was almost won by necron shooting, not their assault.

There's only 1 way to find out. Perhaps I will take my necrons against your eldar when we meet. You'll going to see how good they really are when run by an expert cron player.

 SabrX wrote:
Well that was completely unexpected. Despite tremendous bad luck on Jy2's part such as:
-Early high run moves on Wraiths
-My Necron Overlord tanking ton load of damage in a single turn.
-Scaring off a whole unit of Guardians with a lone single wounded Wraith
-Jy2 failing 3/4 3+ saves on is Jetbikes

Jy2 some how manage to pull out a draw. I'm not sure if him remembering his Farseer has hit and run would have made a difference. That punk manage to survive prolong combat against my Wraiths and might have won.

Well done Jy2! I can accept those results.

Edit:

A lot of people mentioned how deploying far back and kiting might have made a difference. My Wraiths hardly touched Jy2's Wave Serpents. It was the Tesla Destructors from my Night Scythes and barges that took out Jy2's mobility. Argument is moot I suppose.

Honestly, I'm not quite sure how I pulled it off also. The way you were making your saves and how hot your teslas were, this game really should have been yours. With the exception of my Warlord not dying, I really didn't have much luck at all in this game. One thing I felt you probably could have done better was how you played your wraiths. Once you took the center, you should have probably spread them out more to create a much bigger threat radius. Split off your non-Walord D-lord if you had to. By that time, my firepower was practically gone (with the exception of my spiders, who were quite determined to ignore everything but your flyers) so you didn't really need him to tank for your wraiths anymore. But that is really something you learn with experience.

I've got to give it to my spiders this game. They were amazing and the MVP's for me this game.

I may be wrong but on turn 4, it looks like your guardians got in the wave serpent which then turbo boosted. I don't think vehicles can turbo boost after troops embark/disembark. At any rate the game was well played.

@bronzi - I think you may be thinking about tank shocks/ramming. A vehicle that hasn't moved before passengers embark can move normal/turbo boost.


Edit: whoops forgot to say, what an ending! Dramatic comeback for the draw JY2!

Good game... close and very interesting to follow.

If you're making a purely competitive list, I think Iyanden is the way to go. The warlord trait table is just plain better... and against some armies (NOT these Necrons) making a Wraithknight your warlord is a pretty safe idea.

Bronzino88 wrote:
I may be wrong but on turn 4, it looks like your guardians got in the wave serpent which then turbo boosted. I don't think vehicles can turbo boost after troops embark/disembark. At any rate the game was well played.

Yes, that was how I played it. I don't have my book right now but if you are right, then I did make a mistake.

However, I don't think it would have changed the outcome. My spiders would have still contested the objective or probably shot his warriors off of the objective. My serpent would have also contributed to shooting his warriors off the objective if it had survived.

That was a really well played end game. Good job jy2 on pulling off a draw despite everything.

Welll played endgame J, you really consolidated on some small errors on the Necron side and it paid off.

Tbh your spiders did a really good game with the tactics you had in mind.
However i am still sure that gunlining in this match up with the help of the seer would maybe have wipede 1 or 2 units. of wraiths.
If he then focusses on them with flyers and barges, it will give your serpents free reign.

What are your thoughts about your list? would you take lets say a spider less on each unit to upgrade the big guy with a suncannon or even scatterlasers? it would make him more flexible.

Weren't those the spiders who had just regrouped? If so, I'm afraid they're not allowed to Run; barring ATSKNF, you don't get to move at all after the 3" consolidation in the round you regroup.

Very interesting game, and Eldar can muster a truly disturbing amount of quality firepower, and that's without bringing in any of their Dark cousins. What's a poor Tyranid to do anymore? Zoanthropes need access to Divination, so I can get some Forewarning on my Gargoyles!

After close inspection I found out why Jy2 was having bad luck with his dice and SabrX had good fortune with his....One of my dice somehow found its way to the table and you were using it as an objective marker , the 4pt one to be exact. Apparently my dice wanted to make Jim pay for having me lose! (I hope you kept those dice btw)

In a more serious tone I was not expecting the draw and more info on how necrons play is always good to know

Janthkin is correct so technically a win for SabrX... Nice shot at the comeback though. Oh so close.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Janthkin is correct so technically a win for SabrX... Nice shot at the comeback though. Oh so close.

Unofficially win, but officially a draw (since we've already played it).

Wow, another mistake in this game. Time to re-read BRB. Being on hiatus has made me rusty.

 Janthkin wrote:
Weren't those the spiders who had just regrouped? If so, I'm afraid they're not allowed to Run; barring ATSKNF, you don't get to move at all after the 3" consolidation in the round you regroup.

Very interesting game, and Eldar can muster a truly disturbing amount of quality firepower, and that's without bringing in any of their Dark cousins. What's a poor Tyranid to do anymore? Zoanthropes need access to Divination, so I can get some Forewarning on my Gargoyles!

Wow....you are correct. Never knew that you couldn't run after regrouping.

Ok, so SabrX takes this one. Oh, so close.

I will change the results tomorrow. Bedtime for me right now.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Janthkin is correct so technically a win for SabrX... Nice shot at the comeback though. Oh so close.

Damn spiders...why did they have to fail Morale. I must've failed morale just from shooting/pinning at least 5 times this game....and that doesn't even include combat!

 SabrX wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Janthkin is correct so technically a win for SabrX... Nice shot at the comeback though. Oh so close.

Unofficially win, but officially a draw (since we've already played it).

Wow, another mistake in this game. Time to re-read BRB. Being on hiatus has made me rusty.

I give it to you. I would not have made it to contest if we played it right.

Congrats on the win. Necrons take it. I will change the results tomorrow.

Way to go Jim. : )

Yep, this was definitely a learning game for both sides. Are you going to do a rematch? I'm curious how the game would go if a few of the mistakes were not made.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea I have to agree reserving the spiders was smart in this game, he needs them to hit rear armor and take down scythes and their is no better way to due this then drop in behind them the turn after they arrive. It also makes the necron player decide whether they want to go back and deal with an expendable unit or continue being harassed from behind. I do think using DS as a default strategy is a mistake but against NS and hell turkeys I believe it's the best move.

I'm not a necron player but was playing against one this last weekend and he told me that their flyer was AV11 on all sides... so firing into the rear would be pointless... was I lied to?

No, all codex Necron vehicles have (at least) rear armour 11.

No, you weren't lied to. 11 all round.

So the only real reason then to get to the backfield would be to hit the rear of the AB, which would only be 11 versus the front/side of AV 13...

hind sight is always 20/20, but I would have taken out the ABs first with the spiders. Sure the flyers were more of a late game threat, but the ABs were doing more damage to your forces, and would have been much easier to take out, earlier in the game. <shrug>

Wwooops! Poor deployment on both sides. Someone forgot serpent shields have 60 in range! And someone else forgot that a refused flank can cut their opponents firepower in half for a turn while they have to reposition!

Nice job coming back with a draw, but all of the mistakes make it hard to get a clear idea of how these two armies really match up.

Thanks for the report.

Bronzino88 wrote:
I may be wrong but on turn 4, it looks like your guardians got in the wave serpent which then turbo boosted. I don't think vehicles can turbo boost after troops embark/disembark. At any rate the game was well played.

Chancetragedy wrote:
@bronzi - I think you may be thinking about tank shocks/ramming. A vehicle that hasn't moved before passengers embark can move normal/turbo boost.


Edit: whoops forgot to say, what an ending! Dramatic comeback for the draw JY2!

After going through the books again, looks like I've made another mistake again. Bronzino is correct. I moved my serpent, the guys got in and then the serpent moved flat-out again.

The mistake was made because this is the first time I've ran a skimmer transport and came across this situation in all of 6th Ed. Thanks for pointing it out, Bronzino.

However, it still wouldn't have changed the outcome IMO.

 DexKivuli wrote:
Good game... close and very interesting to follow.

If you're making a purely competitive list, I think Iyanden is the way to go. The warlord trait table is just plain better... and against some armies (NOT these Necrons) making a Wraithknight your warlord is a pretty safe idea.

I'm actually interested in running eldar as allies in one of my lists. I don't have the Iyanden supplement. Can you run a 2 WK's in an allied attachment - 1 as HQ and 1 as Heavy?

 Valek wrote:
Welll played endgame J, you really consolidated on some small errors on the Necron side and it paid off.

Tbh your spiders did a really good game with the tactics you had in mind.
However i am still sure that gunlining in this match up with the help of the seer would maybe have wipede 1 or 2 units. of wraiths.
If he then focusses on them with flyers and barges, it will give your serpents free reign.

What are your thoughts about your list? would you take lets say a spider less on each unit to upgrade the big guy with a suncannon or even scatterlasers? it would make him more flexible.

It's hard to say. The problem with deploying my spiders with the rest of the army is that they'll most likely be trapped in their own deployment zones. I won't be able to advance them because of all the wraiths. Also, I felt it was more of a priority to take out the night scythes with troops in them as opposed to the wraiths. As a seasoned necron player, I know that the wraiths are just a distraction unit meant to keep the army busy and out of position. That is how I've been winning most of my necron games anyhow. Then his scythes would have been able to come in unthreatened and have free reign with their shooting. You need to have a unit in their backfield to threaten such an army. That is how you need to play against wraithwing necrons - don't let them box you in and force them to split up. From my experiences, wiping out the wraiths can still lose you the game. Positioning is paramount when facing wraithwing necrons.

After this game, I'm actually thinking about taking out 1 wave serpent + troops and rounding out the list with other units. Perhaps war walkers or maybe some more spiders. Spiders are so unfricking believably good, though it's going to cost an arm and a leg if I go this route.

I don't have the Iyanden supplement. Can you run a 2 WK's in an allied attachment - 1 as HQ and 1 as Heavy?

Going Iyanden, a WK can be your Warlord, but that doesnt make it a HQ.

 Janthkin wrote:

Very interesting game, and Eldar can muster a truly disturbing amount of quality firepower, and that's without bringing in any of their Dark cousins. What's a poor Tyranid to do anymore? Zoanthropes need access to Divination, so I can get some Forewarning on my Gargoyles!

You can't get Forewarning, but I guess Invisibility is the next best thing. How's about Telekine Dome? Or just go f**k it, take 2x30 gargoyles.

GTKA666 wrote:
After close inspection I found out why Jy2 was having bad luck with his dice and SabrX had good fortune with his....One of my dice somehow found its way to the table and you were using it as an objective marker , the 4pt one to be exact. Apparently my dice wanted to make Jim pay for having me lose! (I hope you kept those dice btw)

In a more serious tone I was not expecting the draw and more info on how necrons play is always good to know

Yup, I've got it. You forgot it on the table and I actually didn't notice it until after the game when we were cleaning up.

You can get a taste of my necrons later. Tonight, you have some monstrous creatures to face. And no, it's not going to be daemons. Instead, you are looking at the Grey Knights.....and Eldar!

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Way to go Jim. : )

Thanks. I did the best I could under the circumstances. And mistakes will be unavoidable when you are playing a new army for the first (or second) time ever.

 Redemption wrote:
Yep, this was definitely a learning game for both sides. Are you going to do a rematch? I'm curious how the game would go if a few of the mistakes were not made.

Not planning to. Once is enough. Time to test out my army against different builds.

However, the closest you will probably get to a rematch is if I play against Mortevie's mechdar.

Then you're going to see a very good necron player versus a very good eldar player and I guarantee you that sparks will fly.

Moridan wrote:
So the only real reason then to get to the backfield would be to hit the rear of the AB, which would only be 11 versus the front/side of AV 13...

hind sight is always 20/20, but I would have taken out the ABs first with the spiders. Sure the flyers were more of a late game threat, but the ABs were doing more damage to your forces, and would have been much easier to take out, earlier in the game. <shrug>

There is that aspect of being able to hit his vehicles in the rear.

But more importantly, I did it more for positioning. Try to split up his wraiths and to be able to threaten his backfield units at the same time. The problem with playing against wraithwing is that if you get boxed in by them, that is a recipe for disaster in most cases. As a matter of fact, as a necron wraithwing player, that is how I win the majority of my games. I win not really in the Shooting or Assault phases, but in the Movement phase.

 hippesthippo wrote:
Wwooops! Poor deployment on both sides. Someone forgot serpent shields have 60 in range! And someone else forgot that a refused flank can cut their opponents firepower in half for a turn while they have to reposition!

Nice job coming back with a draw, but all of the mistakes make it hard to get a clear idea of how these two armies really match up.

Thanks for the report.

I find that games will never happen as you expect. Dice tends to skew the results.

Fortunately, both armies are forgiving. You can afford to make a couple of mistakes and still bounce back.

This game was exactly how I envisioned - a tight, close game between 2 very good armies that also could have been anyone's game....even with the bad luck for eldar and mistakes on both sides.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moridan wrote:

I don't have the Iyanden supplement. Can you run a 2 WK's in an allied attachment - 1 as HQ and 1 as Heavy?

Going Iyanden, a WK can be your Warlord, but that doesnt make it a HQ.

Bummer.

I so wanted to run 2 wraithknights and 3 dreadknights.

MTO Necrons are one of your best lists. I also liked a lot the Crowe GK psyspam.

3 dreadknights and a wk... may Slanesh not learn of this battle for I fear the fall of the eldar start now!

I think you're underestimating Warp Spider movement, their insane ability to get to a backfield even without Deep Striking. As long as you're willing to Warp Jump, they'll have a 50% chance to move at least 24 inches in a single turn, and that's not even including the Fleet reroll for Run (this was quick math). It's 85% of at least 20 inches movement, again not counting Fleet.

I think that's worth it over deep striking unless your opponent deployed as far back as possible.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
MTO Necrons are one of your best lists. I also liked a lot the Crowe GK psyspam.

MTO crons are still very good, though I fear my Crowe-Purifiers aren't quite what they used to be. I actually have a losing record with them so far in 6th.

GTKA666 wrote:
3 dreadknights and a wk... may Slanesh not learn of this battle for I fear the fall of the eldar start now!

Don't forget Draigo. He's a monster in his own right.

Quark wrote:
I think you're underestimating Warp Spider movement, their insane ability to get to a backfield even without Deep Striking. As long as you're willing to Warp Jump, they'll have a 50% chance to move at least 24 inches in a single turn, and that's not even including the Fleet reroll for Run (this was quick math). It's 85% of at least 20 inches movement, again not counting Fleet.

I think that's worth it over deep striking unless your opponent deployed as far back as possible.

It's not so much as I am under-estimating Warp Spider movement as it is you may be under-estimating wraithwing movement. Keep in mind we are playing Hammer & Anvil against 18 wraiths and 2 D-lords. They have a potential 18-24" threat range in any direction, or a potential 36-48" diameter threat range. If they spread out, you just can't get past them, especially if you take into consideration that you want to keep your spiders at least 18" away from them at the end of each turn. That means that if the spiders deploy with the rest of the army, they will most likely have to stay there until you can kill the majority of the wraiths, which by then may be Turns 3 or 4 already.

Now I am not saying that it isn't a good idea to deploy with the rest of the army. It's just my experience as a wraithwing player tells me that the best way to break out of their trap is to get behind them while they are advancing - either by flyers, outflanking or deepstriking. That's a guarantee that you won't get caught in their net and that you will get the beta-strike while losing a little firepower initially.

I will worry about drago when he gets into cc with me. Till then he is target practice.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
MTO Necrons are one of your best lists. I also liked a lot the Crowe GK psyspam.

yep, they are, been playing them for some time to in different versions (1750 pts, with double destrolord, ghostark or with helldrake support and they really rock). So much people don't enjoy much playing them when we dont practice for tournaments...
Allthough i feel new Tau and Eldar have the tools to beat them soundly.


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 Valek wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
MTO Necrons are one of your best lists. I also liked a lot the Crowe GK psyspam.

yep, they are, been playing them for some time to in different versions (1750 pts, with double destrolord, ghostark or with helldrake support and they really rock). So much people don't enjoy much playing them when we dont practice for tournaments...
Allthough i feel new Tau and Eldar have the tools to beat them soundly.


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Yeah, MTO necrons are still going strong. The new Tau and Eldar are good enough to give them a tough fight. However, it won't be easy for any of the new armies either. IMO, matches between these types of armies are almost a coin-flip. All 3 are top-tier armies and anyone can win any battle at any given time. I almost consider them all equal and wouldn't be surprised to see any of the 3 start taking tournaments with regularity.

Depending on the lists, Eldar can outshoot Necrons pretty well

 Squat Kid wrote:
Depending on the lists, Eldar can outshoot Necrons pretty well

Yeah. This eldar army will definitely outshoot the crons. However, necrons have the resiliency to absorb a lot of firepower as well. In this game, necron resiliency was just crazy effective.

Necrons are certainly one of the three things I'm worried about with my Eldar (along with mass hordes and Land Raider SPAM).

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Necrons are certainly one of the three things I'm worried about with my Eldar (along with mass hordes and Land Raider SPAM).

Raider spam isn't an issue when there's a Wraith Knight in the list. I don't think Eldar will have issues dealing with horde armies given the volume of shooting they put out combined with Battle Focus. Tyranids would be a good challenge.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Necrons are certainly one of the three things I'm worried about with my Eldar (along with mass hordes and Land Raider SPAM).

I'm sure there will be a lot more. Daemons can actually be pretty deadly also, along with another eldar army and missile-spam Tau.

 SabrX wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Necrons are certainly one of the three things I'm worried about with my Eldar (along with mass hordes and Land Raider SPAM).

Raider spam isn't an issue when there's a Wraith Knight in the list. I don't think Eldar will have issues dealing with horde armies given the volume of shooting they put out combined with Battle Focus. Tyranids would be a good challenge.

Great game SabrX.

Ironically, you are 3-0 with "your" necrons against my "other" armies.