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2013/07/16 15:47:36
Subject: 2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons (Completed)
The second game is against a proven tournament army - my very own Necron Wraithwing Tesla-crons. This "type" of army has had a very successful track record in tournament play. I've won my very first GT (The Golden Throne GT 2012, which was also the very first 6th Edition GT) with it. Others have won tournaments as well with variations of it. In this year's Adepticon, the majority of the final 16 armies in the Championships comprised of necrons and their flyers. I believe necrons is still the standard for tournament excellence. I honestly feel that if an army can beat my necrons, then it has what it takes to win a GT.
Ok, so now that I am done tooting my own horn , I am not running necrons in this match. It will actually be generaled by my good friend, SabrX, who is just returning to gaming after a brief hiatus.
Despite my experience in the game of 40K, this will be my 2nd game ever as the space elves both in this and last edition of 40K. It may be quite a learning experience for me.
Farseer - Jetbike, Singing Spear, Mantle of the Laughing God - Guide, Prescience, ? (Warlord)
Warlord Trait: I hit the jackpot here and got the Mother of All Warlord Traits....Splitfire!!! Woohoo!!!
Tim (aka SabrX here on dakka) has been on a hiatus from gaming due to school. The last time he played was in the Bay Area Open GT 2013, where he actually did very well with his Tau (the old edition) + Orks. He should have taken Best Tau player, but due to a calculation error, ended up the 2nd Best Tau player. Suffice to say, it was a very good placing for someone who hasn't really played a whole lot of 6E. BTW, you can find his BAO experiences here:
Regarding my opponent's qualifications as a necron player, while he doesn't have a whole lot of experience in 6th Edition, SabrX has played both against and as my necrons many times. He is very familiar with them and so far, has actually beaten me with my own necrons in the few times we have played in 6E (I think we've played twice in 6E where he used my own necrons against me). Thus, I am confident that he will give me a very good fight with them.
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, Ressurrection Orb
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, Ressurrection Orb (Warlord)
Warlord Trait: Move Through Cover 12"
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
'
6x Wraiths - 2x Whip Coils
6x Wraiths - 2x Whip Coils
6x Wraiths - 2x Whip Coils
This will certainly be a very exciting and tense matchup. I honestly can't say for sure who will come out the victor. I think it will be almost a coin-flip. Let me go into detail the various aspects of the army.
Movement: Both armies are incredibly fast, with troops that can get to almost anywhere at will. However, mechdar will most likely be sacrificing some mobility for more firepower. Thus, they will only actually have 1 fast troop choice to get to the far objectives. Also, when the eldar disembark their troops for more firepower (and they will), basically that unit won't be going anywhere. With 4 night scythes who can drop their troops almost anywhere, that will be a key advantage that have made the necrons so good.
Advantage:Necrons
Shooting: While teslas are very good, there is no contest here. Eldar shooting is superior, both up close and at range.
Advantage:Eldar
Assault: Eldar only has 1 unit that can do well in assault - the wraithknight. Necrons, on the other hand, have a very scary and fast assault component to their army.
Advantage:Necrons
Resiliency: This is a tough one. Wraiths are highly resilient, especially with the Destroyer Lords tanking their shots. However, Eldar does have the volume of shooting to bring down the wraiths. Eldar have the very resilient serpents who should be getting 4+ cover almost every turn. However, Necron teslas are more than capable of taking down AV12. Moreover, once those wraiths hit the eldar skimmers, it's gone. Necrons have flying AV11 transports who are hard to take out. However, eldar has a lot of twin-linked shooting that should be able to easily take out the flyers even without any skyfire. Eldar has the very, very tough wraithknight. However, necrons should be able to take him down with the volume of S6 rending hits from the wraiths as well as Mindshackle Scarabs. Each army is super tough and each army has the counter to their opponents. I'm going to go ahead and call this a....
Advantage:Draw
X-factor: There are several factors that can lead to victory. If eldar can go first, they will have the advantage as they will then have 1 extra turn of shooting. However, then the necrons will have the last turn to drop off troops on objectives. Objective placement will also be very important. Ideally for me, I want the objectives out in the open so that I can shoot down any necron troops who try to take them. Necrons would want to spread out the objectives as they will have an easier time getting to the objectives than my mechdar. Target priority is very important in this game. You have to target the right units. My goal is to take out the mobility of the necron troops by shooting down his flyers and make them walk to the objectives. My opponent, if he is savvy, should try to take out my mobility as well to prevent me from getting to the objectives. Whoever makes the mistake in target prioritization will probably lose.
But the biggest X-factor in this game will probably be experience. I have much more experience playing competitive 40K than my opponent and I have much more experience with regards to necrons than my opponent as well. I know their strengths and their weaknesses as well. While my opponent has experience playing with and against my necrons, sometimes, you miss the subtleties of an army that you are not intimate with. His play, while probably steady, will probably not be highly optimized as well. You can bet I'll be taking advantage of that.
Advantage:Eldar
So IMO, it really is too close to call. I think this game will be a toss-up with the dice and perhaps mistakes dictating who the winner will be.
Necron deployment. Sorry, but I had to proxy one of the annihilation barges (with a land speeder). His Warlord is the left Destroyer Lord (with some blue on him).
Flyers, of course, will be in reserves.
Mechdar deployment. Storm guardians in the far-left wave serpent (with the white wings). Wraithknight is actually a little back, but because of wobbly model syndrome, I just deployed him on the ground. I also redeploy my Warlord after the pictures were taken but before the first turn.
Spiders and jetbikes in reserves, with the spiders deepstriking.
The combination of 2 snap-firing tesla destructors is enough to wipe out a wave serpent, even with pens being reduced to glances and cover from Night-fight. Necrons get First Blood and guardians get pinned.
That is probably my first mistake of the game. I should have made sure to keep my serpents out of range of his AB's.
Then to compound matters, each unit of wraiths run 5-6"!
Yikes! They are closing in faster than I thought! At this rate, I might not even get 2 turns to shoot them before they hit my skimmers! With a 6" run, the lead wraith unit is only about 6" away. Even if my serpents back up 12", that means they will only be 18" away next turn. Curse me and my deployment!
SabrX does make a mistake however. He puts his Warlord in the front to lead his army so if anything, I have a good chance to wipe out his Warlord early.
Eldar 1
Spoiler:
Eldar does what it does best, and that is to retreat tactically.
Everyone moves back with the exception of my Warlord, who actually moves forwards (but not before he casts Prescience on the disembarked guardians and Guide on Big Scary).
I use all my serpent shields offensively this turn. Shooting kills 4 wraiths (and put 1W on a 5th wraith) from the left unit.
I also fire at his Warlord's unit but the Warlord tanks a huge chunk of the wounds, passing the occasional rend to a nearby wraith. When all is said and done, I only manage to shoot down 1 wraith from that unit and his Boss makes all his saves.
Farseer then turbo-boosts away from the action, making sure to keep out of assault range (and LOS) of his wraiths.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
Yikes! 3 out of 4 night scythes come in. Man, where are some sky-firing, intercepting riptides when you need one!
AB's move up as well. If he goes after my wraithknight, then my opponent will be making a mistake IMO.
I feel that my opponent make a mistake by going after my guardians instead of my wave serpents. He wanted to get rid of a scoring unit but those guardians aren't going anywhere. However, going after the serpents, he could potentially multi-charge a couple of them as well as getting rid of my mobility as well.
SabrX makes the right decision here in going after my serpent instead of Big Scary. However, he can't quite finish it off, only managing to take off 2 HP's and stunning it.
The lone AB on the left flank (from my perspective) manages to take off 2 HP's from my left-most serpent.
Warlord's and the smaller unit or wraiths make the charge through difficult terrain on my guardians. Overwatch fails to hurt anyone.
As expected, the unit gets annihilated.
Things aren't looking too rosy right now. I'm down 1 serpent and 1 unit. I have a serpent that is stunned and 2 down to their last Hull Points. Next turn, the wraiths will be able to get to my skimmers.
What I really need now is for my reserves (spiders) to both come in and to pray that bladestorm can do a lot of damage. Yes, I will be disembarking my troops next turn.
Eldar 2
Spoiler:
1 unit of spiders come in (using fire dragon proxies). Laughingseer casts Guide on them and Prescience on himself.
This is the turn where I go all-out. There is no more retreating. If I don't finish off his Warlord's unit, there will be no where to hide for my guys.
I disembark all 4 units of guardians and then move my serpents back 6". I then move Big Scary and prepare him for assault in case I fail to wipe out the wraithstar.
Laughingseer goes after an AB with his singing spear. If that doesn't kill it, then I can still assault.
Warp spiders blow away 1 night scythe. My Warlord fails to hurt the AB with his S9 shooting to the rear (rolled a for armour penetration ).
The stunned serpent fires at the unit of 2 wraiths (with 1 already wounded) and does nothing.
And I only manage to kill 1 wraith and put 2W on his Warlord. My hit rolls were about average. His saves were off the charts! I kid you not, his Warlord must've made 40+ saves before he had to LOS the rest of the wounds.
I have no choice but to charge in with my WK. I issue a challenge and my opponent declines.
Big Scary then proceeds to flatten 1 wraith while taking 1W in return.
My Warlord then charges the AB and whiffs with his penetration rolls.
Finally, the warp spiders jump behind the ruins for some protection.
Wow, fantastic turn for my Necron opponent. Not much you can do when his dice is on fire.
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
Wraiths go after Big Scary. This is going to hurt. Where is Forewarning when you need it!
Necron vehicles move.
His unit of 2 wraiths go after my Warlord. Oops....I make another mistake by leaving my Warlord within threat range of his wraiths.
Teslas destroy 1 serpent.
Make that 2 serpents down.
Did I say 2....I meant 3.
$%*&#@ teslas....I'm getting a taste of my own medicine. That's 40-karma.
Overview of the carnage so far. I only have 1 serpent remaining.
His 2nd wraithstar charges in. He elects to use Mindshackles first before issuing the challenge. I then fail my Mindshackle test. Then he doesn't have to challenge because I can't fight and his wraiths can go to town on my WK. (You're welcome for the tip, SabrX )
And just like that, Big Scary isn't so scary anymore, not when he's 6 feet under.
Curse me and my blundering noob tactics! I let his wraiths charge my Warlord. They put 1W on him and I pass Morale.
And you know what? I make a HUGE mistake here.....
....I forget that the Mantle gives my Warlord Hit-&-Run!!!
I am not liking how this battle is going 1 bit (though the game is still enjoyable)....
Eldar 3
Spoiler:
The rest of my reserves arrive. Guardian jetbikes would later turbo-boost behind the ruins (where my spiders are). I cast Guide and Prescience on the spiders.
Eldar movement. I make a last ditch effort to take down his Warlord.
Storm guardians (proxied by my guardsmen) head towards the ruins. They will also be going after the AB with their fusion guns.
The other unit of spiders teleports forwards to get some range.
Finally, my opponent's saves come back down to earth. His Warlord fails to LOS a rending hit and goes down. I also take down 2 wraiths, put 1W on a 3rd and take off 2W from his other D-lord.
But most importantly, his Warlord fails to get back up (on a 4+), thus giving me Slay the Warlord.
Storm guardians then Battle Focus forwards and shoot out the window in double-fusion range at his AB. I roll double-1's to hit.
Spiders then destroy 1 night scythe and takes 1 HP off another (only 1 HP!?!).
Finally, the spiders jump back.
In assault, my farseer takes another 1W from the wraiths but at least he still alive.
I have made somewhat of a comeback. However, is it too little, too late?....
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
The rest of the necron reserves come in - 2 5-man warrior units and a night scythe. He comes in on this side because that is where the objective is.
AB's advance. Wraiths go after the storm guardians.
Here is where I think my opponent's inexperience with my crons shows. At this point, I would have split off his D-lord from the unit to go after multiple units. Wraiths are enough to take out the storm guardians. You don't need the D-lord in there as well. Besides, we aren't playing Victory Points (Purge the Alien) and that isn't his Warlord. He can sacrifice his D-lord.
Night scythe goes after my serpent. Lone wraith goes after some troops.
I have a stroke of bad luck (once again). Both units of warriors fire at my guardian jetbikes. He causes 4 wounds. I then proceed to fail 3 3+ saves. Doh!!!
Oh well, that may have just been game.
Night scythe then proceeds to shoot down 6 guardians. I don't go-to-ground because he focus-fires on the ones without area terrain cover.
AB's shoot down 3 and 7 guardians respectively from my 2 units.
At least his night scythe doesn't take out my last skimmer. Instead, he manages to shake it.
My woes continue. Both guardians fail Morale. 1 flees off the table.
His lone wraith then charges my fleeing guardians. I fail a 3rd consecutive Morale test and that unit is destroyed.
Finally, his wraithstar makes their 6" difficult terrain charge through ruins.....
....and he takes out my 4th troop choice in just 1 turn.
Sighs.....when it rains, it pours.
The only real high point for me is that, not only does my farseer survive, but I actually manage to do 1W to his wraiths.
As my friend would say, "OK, I's got this!"
Eldar 4
Spoiler:
Ok, let's re-assess the situation. I've only got 1 troop left and it's going to take them at least 2 turns to get to an objective.
My opponent has still got 4 troops, 2 of which are in night scythes still.
I do have last turn, however.
My opponent has control of the board with his wraiths.
I do have 2 full squads of spiders.
Ok....I's got this!
Serpent moves on top of the building. Guardians get in.
Spiders teleport forwards (and away from the wraiths). I will be going after his night scythe.
BTW, farseer does his hoodoo voodoo on the 2 units of spiders.
The other unit of spiders teleport backwards to go after his other night scythe.
I still have a very slim chance of making this a game. If I can wipe out both night scythes, then he will not be able to get to any of the objectives. I can force a draw or if I am very lucky, I may even win it with my 1 remaining troop choice.
Spiders then Battle Focus to get away from the wraiths.....
Unfortunately, I fail to down either scythes. I do manage to take both scythes down to just 1 HP left, stunning one and blowing off the tesla-destructors on both....but I just can't take them down!
In an incredible display of endurance, my farseer with only 1W left survives another turn of combat with the wraiths!
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
Due to reasons of time, both SabrX and I agree that this would be the last game turn.
Night scythe drops his warriors onto the objective and then flies away.
His other night scythe moves forwards and then drop off his troops near the objective.
BTW, my wave serpent moved flat-out last turn towards the objective.
Solitary wraith goes after the night scythe.
His wraithstar goes after my serpent as well. They also make it into contesting range of the objective.
Warriors then move into double-tap range of my spiders.
Shooting by teslas actually wreck the serpent before he can assault.
Warriors run to make it to his objective.
Wraithstar then tries to charge my disembarked guardians. I kill 1 with Overwatch and they fail their charge.
His lone wraith does make it, however....
....but my guardians kill him before he can strike.
I realize I forget to take a Morale test for my spiders by his objective. 30 gauss shots from 15 warriors managed to kill 3 spiders.
Spiders then fail Morale! Momma Mia!!!
This game is really starting to take a toll on me. I am getting mentally exhausted after just 2 games.
Eldar 5
Spoiler:
This is the last turn.
Currently, SabrX has got 2 objectives. I've got none.
I have 1 unit of spiders fleeing. I won't be able to shoot his warriors off of the objective because 1) I'll be snap-shooting and 2) some of his guys are out of LOS. And that is assuming my spiders regroup!
My gameplan right now is to try to contest both objectives. Then I need to pray that my Warlord's luck continues. He's made it through 5-6 rounds of combat so far. He just needs to survive 1 more. Otherwise, if SabrX takes my Warlord, I lose.
Spiders regroup and consolidate!
Ok, I have a slim chance.
Spiders teleport and make it into contesting range of the objective. Guardians go after the warriors.
You know what? I can actually take this objective! But to do so, I need to kill off his warriors and then Battle Focus my guardians into range of the objective. I then need to kill enough wraiths to with my spiders to take them out of contesting range.
Spiders run into contesting range and then shoot down 1 warrior. I achieve my goal of contesting this objective.
I then shoot his warriors with my guardians but only kill 1-2 after he goes-to-ground with them. I then assault his warriors with my guardians and we stay stuck in combat.
Finally, my spiders shoot at his wraiths. I kill 2. However, he is still within contesting range.
So now both objectives are contested.
It is up to my Warlord. If he lives, then I've pulled off the miracle draw. If he dies, then my opponent takes the game on Secondaries.
Wraiths attack and wounds 4 times.
My Warlord then proceeds to make all 4 saves and kill 1 wraith in return. Holy WTF!?! HE LIVES!!!
We've got 1 objective contested here by my spiders and his warriors.
And the other contested by my spiders/guardians and his wraiths/warriors.
My opponent has got First Blood (wave serpent) and Linebreaker (wraiths, warriors). I've got Warlord and Linebreaker (warp spiders).
But wait....I've just been informed that you cannot run after regrouping. Doh!!!
That means my spiders, who have just regrouped, wouldn't have been able to run to contest the objective, which means that Necrons win by 1 objective, 5-2!
Crushing Victory by the Metallic Dead - Necrons!!!
This message was edited 18 times. Last update was at 2013/07/18 14:34:43
I love my necrons but lists like this, to me, are what is making wraith wing far less viable. ( this and tau of course)
He is going to have to play very smart, the wraiths will be easy fodder for all that VoF so he will need to use terrain and speed to try and get them into combat with something.
With the speed of the warp spiders he will have to postion his ABs very well to avoid getting their bumpers all shot up.
Between guide and the TL scatter, I also think there is more than enough VoF to put down the scythes.
Autoloss for a outdated cronlist. Sorry jy2, That list used to be good at the start of 6th but it needs to evolve to compete with hardcore Deamons, Tau and Eldar.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/16 19:59:26
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
And we shall do so again.
4500 pts
2013/07/16 20:00:21
Subject: Re:2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons
Roci wrote: I love my necrons but lists like this, to me, are what is making wraith wing far less viable. ( this and tau of course)
He is going to have to play very smart, the wraiths will be easy fodder for all that VoF so he will need to use terrain and speed to try and get them into combat with something.
With the speed of the warp spiders he will have to postion his ABs very well to avoid getting their bumpers all shot up.
Between guide and the TL scatter, I also think there is more than enough VoF to put down the scythes.
I have to give this one to the Eldar.
Believe me, it is definitely a viable list. It's just that, for some reason, people shun running it. I honestly don't believe it is their fear of anti-flyer firepower. Rather, people tend to view it as "that" army - the type of army who will steamroll all but the most competitive armies.
But the new eldar will definitely put them to the test. The last time I ran my wraithwing, it was against triptide Tau and they just blew away my wraiths. Eldar definitely has the potential to replicate that feat.
GTKA666 wrote: I didnt now SabrX was GTKA666 as well O.o
Oopsies. Edited.
Valek wrote: Autoloss for a outdated cronlist. Sorry jy2, That list used to be good at the start of 6th but it needs to evolve to compete with hardcore Deamons, Tau and Eldar.
Don't be so sure. If I were a betting man, I'd say even money on this matchup.
I voted necrons. Tesla outpaces serpent shields/spyders even twin linked.
I think the crons shut it down on serpent spam. Should be really cool to see how it actually plays out and how these new "power builds" stack up to old faithful. I think the wraiths get obliterated and the barges/scythes slowly blow away transports and then drop troops for the win..
2013/07/16 23:57:44
Subject: 2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons
This will certainly be a very exciting and tense matchup. I honestly can't say for sure who will come out the victor. I think it will be almost a coin-flip. Let me go into detail the various aspects of the army.
Movement: Both armies are incredibly fast, with troops that can get to almost anywhere at will. However, mechdar will most likely be sacrificing some mobility for more firepower. Thus, they will only actually have 1 fast troop choice to get to the far objectives. Also, when the eldar disembark their troops for more firepower (and they will), basically that unit won't be going anywhere. With 4 night scythes who can drop their troops almost anywhere, that will be a key advantage that have made the necrons so good.
Advantage:Necrons
Shooting: While teslas are very good, there is no contest here. Eldar shooting is superior, both up close and at range.
Advantage:Eldar
Assault: Eldar only has 1 unit that can do well in assault - the wraithknight. Necrons, on the other hand, have a very scary and fast assault component to their army.
Advantage:Necrons
Resiliency: This is a tough one. Wraiths are highly resilient, especially with the Destroyer Lords tanking their shots. However, Eldar does have the volume of shooting to bring down the wraiths. Eldar have the very resilient serpents who should be getting 4+ cover almost every turn. However, Necron teslas are more than capable of taking down AV12. Moreover, once those wraiths hit the eldar skimmers, it's gone. Necrons have flying AV11 transports who are hard to take out. However, eldar has a lot of twin-linked shooting that should be able to easily take out the flyers even without any skyfire. Eldar has the very, very tough wraithknight. However, necrons should be able to take him down with the volume of S6 rending hits from the wraiths as well as Mindshackle Scarabs. Each army is super tough and each army has the counter to their opponents. I'm going to go ahead and call this a....
Advantage:Draw
X-factor: There are several factors that can lead to victory. If eldar can go first, they will have the advantage as they will then have 1 extra turn of shooting. However, then the necrons will have the last turn to drop off troops on objectives. Objective placement will also be very important. Ideally for me, I want the objectives out in the open so that I can shoot down any necron troops who try to take them. Necrons would want to spread out the objectives as they will have an easier time getting to the objectives than my mechdar. Target priority is very important in this game. You have to target the right units. My goal is to take out the mobility of the necron troops by shooting down his flyers and make them walk to the objectives. My opponent, if he is savvy, should try to take out my mobility as well to prevent me from getting to the objectives. Whoever makes the mistake in target prioritization will probably lose.
But the biggest X-factor in this game will probably be experience. I have much more experience playing competitive 40K than my opponent and I have much more experience with regards to necrons than my opponent as well. I know their strengths and their weaknesses as well. While my opponent has experience playing with and against my necrons, sometimes, you miss the subtleties of an army that you are not intimate with. His play, while probably steady, will probably not be highly optimized as well. You can bet I'll be taking advantage of that.
Advantage:Eldar
So IMO, it really is too close to call. I think this game will be a toss-up with the dice and perhaps mistakes dictating who the winner will be.
This will be my first time playing against the new Eldar codex. Ironically, Jy2 will be using my own models (which he just purchased) against me. I've heard about the Eldar's army wide enhancements and the monstrous Wraith Knight. After watching the game between Jy2 and GTKA666, I've realized how tricky Eldar can be with reserves and mobility.This is going to be a tough match up. Jy2's army has a ridiculous mount of fire power while the Necron list I'll be using only has a concentration in several Tesla weapons with more emphasis on assault. I don't have any tactics other than throw everything into the Eldar's front lines.
SabrX wrote: This will be my first time playing against the new Eldar codex. Ironically, Jy2 will be using my own models (which he just purchased) against me. I've heard about the Eldar's army wide enhancements and the monstrous Wraith Knight. After watching the game between Jy2 and GTKA666, I've realized how tricky Eldar can be with reserves and mobility.This is going to be a tough match up. Jy2's army has a ridiculous mount of fire power while the Necron list I'll be using only has a concentration in several Tesla weapons with more emphasis on assault. I don't have any tactics other than throw everything into the Eldar's front lines.
I had a game with that exact necron list vs my own Mechdar, and Mechdar won and pretty much tabled necrons in 3 turns, I called the end at turn 4 because Mechdar had all units left and necrons only had 2 flyers. (I proxyed all this with my GK and ork army LOL)
My test was at 1750, you easily find my list in my most recent thread.
I will keep a keen eye on this since I do plan to make one of these armies but I want to see your test before I start buying all these models.
2013/07/17 05:11:54
Subject: Re:2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons
SabrX wrote: This will be my first time playing against the new Eldar codex. Ironically, Jy2 will be using my own models (which he just purchased) against me. I've heard about the Eldar's army wide enhancements and the monstrous Wraith Knight. After watching the game between Jy2 and GTKA666, I've realized how tricky Eldar can be with reserves and mobility.This is going to be a tough match up. Jy2's army has a ridiculous mount of fire power while the Necron list I'll be using only has a concentration in several Tesla weapons with more emphasis on assault. I don't have any tactics other than throw everything into the Eldar's front lines.
Depending on the eldar compositiom and your army compisition that is what you should do. Most lists cant handle people n their face.
Color Scheme
Luggnath Army
Field testing>>>Paper testing
2013/07/17 06:58:52
Subject: 2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons
I think the Eldar could take this one. They definately have rate of fire on their side while the crons only really have 3 decent anti armour weapons on the board (unless night scythes have tesla as well?).
I would target the wraiths in the first turn with all the serpents and have the wraithknight hopefully pop a barge then turn on the sycthes and troops once they start turning up.
Warp spiders would deep strike to help take out the barges or wraiths.
Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts
2013/07/17 07:06:15
Subject: 2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons
rohansoldier wrote: I think the Eldar could take this one. They definately have rate of fire on their side while the crons only really have 3 decent anti armour weapons on the board (unless night scythes have tesla as well?).
I would target the wraiths in the first turn with all the serpents and have the wraithknight hopefully pop a barge then turn on the sycthes and troops once they start turning up.
Warp spiders would deep strike to help take out the barges or wraiths.
Nightscythes have the same twin-linked tesla destructor the Annihilation Barges have, so he has plenty of firepower to kill the Wave Serpents with. And Guided/Prescienced Warp Spiders are pretty good at taking down the Night Scythes as well.
Marthike wrote: I had a game with that exact necron list vs my own Mechdar, and Mechdar won and pretty much tabled necrons in 3 turns, I called the end at turn 4 because Mechdar had all units left and necrons only had 2 flyers. (I proxyed all this with my GK and ork army LOL)
My test was at 1750, you easily find my list in my most recent thread.
I will keep a keen eye on this since I do plan to make one of these armies but I want to see your test before I start buying all these models.
That is definitely possible if the wraiths are failing their saves (like when I faced a triple-riptide Tau army with my wraithwing crons). However, if wraiths are making their saves, it could be bad news for eldar. Also, don't under-estimate the tesla-destructors. I have seen many times just 1 tesla destructor destroying an AV12 vehicle. Granted, with 4+ cover due to holofields, it'll probably take at least 2 necrons vehicles with teslas to take down 1 serpent, but that could happen as well.
Both armies are competitive. I think you're going to have to decide which may be the funner army for you to play. In other words, which playstyle you would probably like more. Personally, I enjoy both, though I am still just getting a feel for mechdar while my necrons are semi-retired due to them being too strong in casual play.
SabrX wrote: This will be my first time playing against the new Eldar codex. Ironically, Jy2 will be using my own models (which he just purchased) against me. I've heard about the Eldar's army wide enhancements and the monstrous Wraith Knight. After watching the game between Jy2 and GTKA666, I've realized how tricky Eldar can be with reserves and mobility.This is going to be a tough match up. Jy2's army has a ridiculous mount of fire power while the Necron list I'll be using only has a concentration in several Tesla weapons with more emphasis on assault. I don't have any tactics other than throw everything into the Eldar's front lines.
Depending on the eldar compositiom and your army compisition that is what you should do. Most lists cant handle people n their face.
You have to play aggressively with the necrons. IMO, they are at their best when you play them MTO-style (that's Maximum Threat Overload, or overloading your opponent with more threats than he can handle). Though against some armies, it may be better to hold them back a little for a Turn 2 Beta-strike when your flyers come in as well.
rohansoldier wrote: I think the Eldar could take this one. They definately have rate of fire on their side while the crons only really have 3 decent anti armour weapons on the board (unless night scythes have tesla as well?).
I would target the wraiths in the first turn with all the serpents and have the wraithknight hopefully pop a barge then turn on the sycthes and troops once they start turning up.
Warp spiders would deep strike to help take out the barges or wraiths.
Night scythes do have teslas so that is actually 7 tesla platforms on the necron side. That's actually enough to take out 3 wave serpents in 1 turn on a best-case scenario (i.e. all the scythes come in and have range and you roll slightly above average with the hits, getting some 6's in the process). Moreover, necron vehicles may actually be harder to kill because 1) they're either AV13 or 2) they are flyers.
As for your tactics, it is pretty spot-on. I do target the wraiths first (because shooting the AV13 barges is not efficient) and will be deepstriking my spiders to try to take down necron flyers or get rear shots on the barges.
rohansoldier wrote: I think the Eldar could take this one. They definately have rate of fire on their side while the crons only really have 3 decent anti armour weapons on the board (unless night scythes have tesla as well?).
I would target the wraiths in the first turn with all the serpents and have the wraithknight hopefully pop a barge then turn on the sycthes and troops once they start turning up.
Warp spiders would deep strike to help take out the barges or wraiths.
Nightscythes have the same twin-linked tesla destructor the Annihilation Barges have, so he has plenty of firepower to kill the Wave Serpents with. And Guided/Prescienced Warp Spiders are pretty good at taking down the Night Scythes as well.
Right. Both armies have some resilient units and ironically, both armies have the tools to take down these resilient units. Spiders coming in near my farseer will get the benefit of Prescience and Guide. Teslas are a very good gun even against AV12.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/17 07:25:25
As much as I'd like to see the Necrons take it, I just don't see that happening. Seems to me that there's just too much firepower in the Mechdar alpha strike. Invuls or no, at least one unit of wraiths is likely to go down in the first turn. And I'll be amazed if that Wraithknight can't drop at least one Annihilation Barge in the first two turns.
I expect Serpent Shields to stop any and all of those 6's to pen that the Tesla Destructors are gonna need, leaving only the option of glancing it to death (and that's a LOT of 5+ AP rolls).
Now, I don't know too much about Eldar, but the list here doesn't have much in the way of Skyfire, yeah? That feels like the only thing Necrons have going for them in this match-up.
Also, and most importantly, Warp Spiders scare the crap out of me.
2013/07/17 11:08:39
Subject: 2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons
I feel the MTO Necrons are past their prime. A more diverse Necron army would be a better choice. Remove one wraith unit and a D lord. Add in Zahndrekh and a walking immortal squad with a veil-tek. This gives you an incredibly mobile brick unit that can engage vehicles and foot units. Zahndrekh will also allow a tesla destructor to take out a serpent a turn with tank hunter.
Zahndrekh + immortals is a 3+ armor and 4+ WBB. The big Z can also tank some shots with his 2+\3+. This makes the unit very resilient to volume of fire shooting. Some people like to change Zahndrekh with an Overlord with the same wargear plus scarabs and warscythe for more of a fighting punch. I like tank hunter on tesla destructor to much, but one of the ways to counter this unit is to get the Wraithknight into assault with it. In that respect the mind shackle scarabs would be better and I might be coming around to that.
2013/07/17 11:30:04
Subject: 2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons
I think Eldar will take this match up, no problem. It has the mobility and VoF to destroy the wraiths +DL Lord at range. The WSs and Spiders also have the mobility to bypass the DL's ability to tank shot if they want, all their guns are wounding on 2's and they have pseudo-rending which will severely limit the DL's ability to tank shots. The annhilation barges are limited by their 24" range so can be avoided for a turn or 2, but the warp spiders + WS can probably take them down through weight of Str7 shots (ignoring cover for the WSs) plus the WraithKnights 2 Str 10 shots.
As much as I'd like to see the Necrons take it, I just don't see that happening. Seems to me that there's just too much firepower in the Mechdar alpha strike. Invuls or no, at least one unit of wraiths is likely to go down in the first turn. And I'll be amazed if that Wraithknight can't drop at least one Annihilation Barge in the first two turns.
I expect Serpent Shields to stop any and all of those 6's to pen that the Tesla Destructors are gonna need, leaving only the option of glancing it to death (and that's a LOT of 5+ AP rolls).
Now, I don't know too much about Eldar, but the list here doesn't have much in the way of Skyfire, yeah? That feels like the only thing Necrons have going for them in this match-up.
Also, and most importantly, Warp Spiders scare the crap out of me.
Tbh the Eldar don't need skyfire as basically everything in the army is effectively twin-linked. The WSs fire the SL first (don't know what the odds of not getting a 6 on 4 dice with a re-roll is, but I imagine it's low) which then TL's the serpent shield and Shruiken cannon so you're looking at 7 TL Str6 Shots & 1+d6Str 7 Ignoring Cover shots (per WS). Plus the farseer can guide/prescience the warpsiders so that's another 36 TL Str7 Shots.
ps. I like the deathmarks + veil cryptek w/abyssal staff, that is a nasty combo (even nastier in a night scythe) but I guess you need a Court to run one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/17 11:31:25
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2013/07/17 13:31:28
Subject: 2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons
I voted Necrons. Though I think I voted wrongly as I didn't look at the lists before hand. If the Necrons were using mass av13, then yeah, Eldar would struggle and probably be beaten. As Necrons are using a gak ton of Wraiths, limited av13 and then many flyers I think Eldar will take it. I suspect the Eldar will cause massive dent in the Wraithwing providing the Eldar can get good LOS. I also suspect the Wraithknight may take down a AB turn.
Looking forward to seeing the result.
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2013/07/17 15:54:08
Subject: 2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons
mortetvie wrote: looking at the deployment it makes me think that you guys are big on civil war reenactments...
I'm surprised Eldar didn't deploy farther back or behind terrain but meh.
He can move 6" and he needs to move even a little to get his cover save so as long as no wraith get a lucky 24" assault range (even that i dont think jy2 deployed on the 24" line)
Automatically Appended Next Post: If eldar got first turn its gonna be a much more different start.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/17 16:13:45
2013/07/17 16:30:22
Subject: 2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons
60" serpent shields should be maintaining max range IMO. Barges can still cause big damage at 36" thanks to twin link and tesla rules.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 60" serpent shields should be maintaining max range IMO. Barges can still cause big damage at 36" thanks to twin link and tesla rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/17 16:31:00
I voted crons, not my favorite style of list, but as long as they have 1st turn, i dont think the eldar will be able to chew through them all before they hit those serpents and pry them open, especially with 1st turn to the crons. The aggressive eldar deployment also will undoubtably help the necrons negate their opponent's range advantage.
VoF is nice against fliers, but having nothing with skyfire might end up being a problem for the eldar, additionally, they don't have a ton of lances or dedicated anti-armor weaponry to handle the barges minus the wraithknight.
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2013/07/17 17:02:15
Subject: 2K Competitive - Jy2's NEW Mechdar Eldar vs Wraithwing Tesla-cron Necrons
DarthDiggler wrote: I feel the MTO Necrons are past their prime. A more diverse Necron army would be a better choice. Remove one wraith unit and a D lord. Add in Zahndrekh and a walking immortal squad with a veil-tek. This gives you an incredibly mobile brick unit that can engage vehicles and foot units. Zahndrekh will also allow a tesla destructor to take out a serpent a turn with tank hunter.
Zahndrekh + immortals is a 3+ armor and 4+ WBB. The big Z can also tank some shots with his 2+\3+. This makes the unit very resilient to volume of fire shooting. Some people like to change Zahndrekh with an Overlord with the same wargear plus scarabs and warscythe for more of a fighting punch. I like tank hunter on tesla destructor to much, but one of the ways to counter this unit is to get the Wraithknight into assault with it. In that respect the mind shackle scarabs would be better and I might be coming around to that.
Was thinking about that (Zandrekh's unit + veil-tek). However, I really don't play my necrons that much any more - only if requested by an opponent (though I would consider running them for a tournament).
And MTO necrons are definitely NOT past their prime. The new trend right now is allies and everyone's busy playing the new armies, but I guarantee you that MTO necrons can still compete with any army thrown their way.
Tbh the Eldar don't need skyfire as basically everything in the army is effectively twin-linked. The WSs fire the SL first (don't know what the odds of not getting a 6 on 4 dice with a re-roll is, but I imagine it's low) which then TL's the serpent shield and Shruiken cannon so you're looking at 7 TL Str6 Shots & 1+d6Str 7 Ignoring Cover shots (per WS). Plus the farseer can guide/prescience the warpsiders so that's another 36 TL Str7 Shots.
ps. I like the deathmarks + veil cryptek w/abyssal staff, that is a nasty combo (even nastier in a night scythe) but I guess you need a Court to run one.
Agreed. Eldar has so much high-strength twin-linking shots that they don't really need skyfire. However, if I were to put skyfire in my eldar army, it would probably be a unit of 5 Dark Reapers with a Fast Shot Exarch on an Icarus Lascannon. I may even consider throwing in a farseer (without the Mantle) with them especially if he gets the Perfect Timing psychic power.
But then, that would be a whole different army. I probably wouldn't be running a true mechdar build in that case.
The deathmark is a good unit. I would actually get it if I was still playing my necrons a lot. Alas, my focus is on my other armies.
mortetvie wrote: looking at the deployment it makes me think that you guys are big on civil war reenactments...
I'm surprised Eldar didn't deploy farther back or behind terrain but meh.
Like I said, I'm still new with them. Only my 2nd game.
mortetvie wrote: looking at the deployment it makes me think that you guys are big on civil war reenactments...
I'm surprised Eldar didn't deploy farther back or behind terrain but meh.
He can move 6" and he needs to move even a little to get his cover save so as long as no wraith get a lucky 24" assault range (even that i dont think jy2 deployed on the 24" line)
Automatically Appended Next Post: If eldar got first turn its gonna be a much more different start.
Yeah, I did deploy on the deployment line. My reasons for doing so was so that I would have more space to retreat and shoot. Also, this would ensure I get to fire my Shuriken Cannons at full BS by moving 6". I honestly didn't think SabrX would bullrush me like that. I was thinking he'd probably hide behind the central LOS-blocking terrain for perhaps 1 turn. Then when his flyers come in on T2, go all out. If he did this and I deployed too far back, there's a chance I wouldn't be able to see or shoot at his guys (also due to Night-fight).
But then my opponent played very boldly, got some great run rolls and his D-lord tanked a lot of shots.
Yeah, if eldar went first, it'll probably be a much different game, though the way my opponent was making his saves, I had a feeling it would be one of those games. But that extra turn of shooting would have definitely helped, as long as I could protect the objectives from the last turn objective-grab by his troops in their flyers.
hyv3mynd wrote: 60" serpent shields should be maintaining max range IMO. Barges can still cause big damage at 36" thanks to twin link and tesla rules.
However, that would mean that they won't be able to use their shuri-cannons.
But still, I should have deployed out of their range on T1. After I get First Blood, I wouldn't care that much if I lost a serpent or 2 to teslas.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/17 17:02:32
A couple cannon shots are not worth putting your whole army in danger. You had range and mobility and going second to see how he deployed. Your skimmers can move 12" and fire two weapons at full bs. That's a mistake that could cost the whole game.
, I am not running necrons in this match. It will actually be generaled by my good friend, SabrX, who is just returning to gaming after a brief hiatus.
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