Here's a rumored price list for new August GW releases via Pins Of War. Notice the 40K Mini-rulebook Gamer's Edition on the list. Is it the same book that comes in Dark Vengeance with some accompanying swag or gaming accessories? I guess we'll know in a few days if it goes up for pre-order when the Lizardmen stuff also goes up for pre-order.
In any case, this is good news for people who need a small rulebook, but who don't wish to buy Dark Vengeance.
...£40 for the mini rulebook? Am I reading that correctly? The big one's £45 and Dark Vengeance is £61.50. Someone's fudged their prices, or, if that's the actual price, GW's pulled a derp.
Unless it comes with some kind of really cool swag, I can't see myself paying $50 for a mini rulebook when for the same price again I get a heap of cool models. Interesting find!
If it is a "Gamer's Edition" it will come with some kind of gaming accessories, perhaps even limited edition ones. All of GW's "Gamer's Editions" till now have been a rule book packaged with other items and in most cases at least some of the items have been limited edition whether it be dice, special templates, a satchel or bag of some sort or even most recently an army carrying case. At the price point give, I would expect it to be along the lines of smaller items like dice or templates and maybe a small satchel or something similarly sized.
Considering that you can pick up a mini rulebook for under £20, I guess GW's thinking that the additional goodies are worth the same, or more as the book itself. Meh, I suppose people will still buy the thing, but to me it seems like a dumb thing to do.
Wyrmalla wrote: Considering that you can pick up a mini rulebook for under £20, I guess GW's thinking that the additional goodies are worth the same, or more as the book itself. Meh, I suppose people will still buy the thing, but to me it seems like a dumb thing to do.
Picking up the mini rulebook for under 20 GBP means finding someone who bought multiple Dark Vengeance boxed sets.
Bits sellers who dealt directly with GW or distributors who carried GW products are no longer able to break boxed sets up--and even then, most bits sellers were charging anywhere from $30 to $35 for the mini rulebooks from the starter boxes.
Wyrmalla wrote: ...£40 for the mini rulebook? Am I reading that correctly? The big one's £45 and Dark Vengeance is £61.50. Someone's fudged their prices, or, if that's the actual price, GW's pulled a derp.
Exchange rate brings it in at £32 not £40.
Plus US prices are slightly higher than the direct exchange rate prices.
So we're probably looking at £25 - £30.
Of course it won't line up as exact price wise in comparison to Dark Vengeance- it has £150 worth of models in!
No, it's £40. I think you looking at the trade price. It's $59.50, which is actually £39. I would therefor guess at £35. I would guess, as that is only £10 less than the hardback book, that there will be some stuff. Given that a set of dice and templates is £20 it may be good value if you want whatever is with it.
I know it is hip to bash on prices, but without knowing what is in the Gamer's Edition it is kind of hard to pass legit judgement. I was a big fan of the other Gamer's Edition.
I hate GW they cost too much and they don't care about me....
Am I doing this right?
If you want a small rule book, but don't want the models in DV or can't be bothered to sell them, then this is a product for you. I actually wanted this exact thing, but ended up starting a DA army and luckily finding a DV set minus the CSM on eBay.
If you want a small rule book, but don't want the models in DV or can't be bothered to sell them, then this is a product for you. I actually wanted this exact thing, but ended up starting a DA army and luckily finding a DV set minus the CSM on eBay.
You need a little more "The models are so ugly and not detailed" and some "I hate Matt Ward"
Steve steveson wrote: No, it's £40. I think you looking at the trade price. It's $59.50, which is actually £39. I would therefor guess at £35. I would guess, as that is only £10 less than the hardback book, that there will be some stuff. Given that a set of dice and templates is £20 it may be good value if you want whatever is with it.
Aha, not quite! It's compulsory to have the "that's double/triple the price it was when I last bought something similar" or the "When I started playing, GW cared about the community". You can also throw in a sarcastic comment about it being "great news" or an equivalent. Apart from that, you've pretty much got it.
Back on topic, I'll wait to see what else there is to the package before passing judgement. Could be quite cool, I like the idea of a satchel with a tape measure and a dice tin.
What would really be nice would be if this bundle included the mini rulebook, templates, a few dice, and a key to redeem the ebook edition to use with a tablet.
"I'll take "Things That Won't Happen" for $200, Alex."
Ouze wrote: What would really be nice would be if this bundle included the mini rulebook, templates, a few dice, and a key to redeem the ebook edition to use with a tablet.
pretre wrote: I know it is hip to bash on prices, but without knowing what is in the Gamer's Edition it is kind of hard to pass legit judgement. I was a big fan of the other Gamer's Edition.
People want the mini rulebook as a cheap alternative to the hardcover. Selling it at the price of the hardcover is missing the point.
BTW there is kind of a Gamer's edition already, with templates, dice and even two mini armies
pretre wrote: I know it is hip to bash on prices, but without knowing what is in the Gamer's Edition it is kind of hard to pass legit judgement. I was a big fan of the other Gamer's Edition.
People want the mini rulebook as a cheap alternative to the hardcover. Selling it at the price of the hardcover is missing the point.
BTW there is kind of a Gamer's edition already, with templates, dice and even two mini armies
Ouze wrote: What would really be nice would be if this bundle included the mini rulebook, templates, a few dice, and a key to redeem the ebook edition to use with a tablet.
"I'll take "Things That Won't Happen" for $200, Alex."
First day buy if it comes with a digital voucher. I still don't have a 6th rulebook and borrowing and mooching is cumbersome.
(Yes I would rather buy more models than a $75 rulebook or models for two armies I don't play. Shame on me.)
Krooty got it. People buy the small rule book because they get it for ~10$ on ebay, not because it's handy to have - and yeah, a pack sure is nice, but I could just buy a small rulebook from ebay / 2nd hand in general and then buy proper dice and a bag from Chessex etc. for less than the GW package
My guess is that it's just the non-mini stuff from the DV set.
Do you still get the swizzle/whippy sticks in boxes these days? I figure book+dice+templates is probably the right price point for GW, the tape measure would push it over the top. But toss in a few sticks of cheap plastic, and you can bill it as "everything you need to play, barring the minis"
Nevelon wrote: My guess is that it's just the non-mini stuff from the DV set.
Do you still get the swizzle/whippy sticks in boxes these days? I figure book+dice+templates is probably the right price point for GW, the tape measure would push it over the top. But toss in a few sticks of cheap plastic, and you can bill it as "everything you need to play, barring the minis"
whippy sticks are the entire reason you buy a core game
Well, if people are too lazy to turn their stuff around on eBay.... our book cost us less than £20 even after eBay commission on selling the other Dark Vengeance bits.
But agreed, if it's just a lousy box of dice it's an insult. Maybe they've only done it to make Dark Vengeance look like a bargain!
Sigvatr wrote: Krooty got it. People buy the small rule book because they get it for ~10$ on ebay, not because it's handy to have - and yeah, a pack sure is nice, but I could just buy a small rulebook from ebay / 2nd hand in general and then buy proper dice and a bag from Chessex etc. for less than the GW package
i bought a mini rulebook because it was mini, and I already had the big one. I would probably buy a gamers if it has cool bennies.
So people will complain that they can spend a little more to get a bunch of models on top of the book with a Dark Vengeance set...but they won't buy a Dark Vengeance set (and complained about that too).
This is like paying for convenience. It's the same reason a 20 oz. soda costs as much as a 2 liter. This is convenient, it will probably be limited, and will likely come with some swag. It doesn't matter what said swag consists of.
Some people bought DV for the SOLE PURPOSE of getting the little rulebook. Some people don't want Dark Angels or Chaos models, and couldn't find a buyer for them to make up what they spent.
Kanluwen wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote: Considering that you can pick up a mini rulebook for under £20, I guess GW's thinking that the additional goodies are worth the same, or more as the book itself. Meh, I suppose people will still buy the thing, but to me it seems like a dumb thing to do.
Picking up the mini rulebook for under 20 GBP means finding someone who bought multiple Dark Vengeance boxed sets.
Bits sellers who dealt directly with GW or distributors who carried GW products are no longer able to break boxed sets up--and even then, most bits sellers were charging anywhere from $30 to $35 for the mini rulebooks from the starter boxes.
If it really is new (presumably so, not just leftover DV rulebooks) then one advantage obviously is that erratas/FAQs probably are updated to the book. Hopefully, anyway.
Could it be that GW is listening to the internet now with this release? This has been much requested in the past so is a good move by them. I'd have been interested in this if it had come at the time of the 6th Ed. release.
Nah, I'm just kidding....normal service in 3...2...1...
GWHQ wrote:Hi I'm Tom Kirby and we at GW are now giving you, yes YOU the opportunity to own a mini version of your existing 40k rulebook so that you can easily take it to your nearest one man GW store and not be able to play a game with your new mini rulebook.
notprop wrote: Could it be that GW is listening to the internet now with this release? This has been much requested in the past so is a good move by them. I'd have been interested in this if it had come at the time of the 6th Ed. release.
Nah, I'm just kidding....normal service in 3...2...1...
GWHQ wrote:Hi I'm Tom Kirby and we at GW are now giving you, yes YOU the opportunity to own a mini version of your existing 40k rulebook so that you can easily take it to your nearest one man GW store and not be able to play a game with your new mini rulebook.
This is Great neWs!
Since you're in the UK I'd be very interested to know what the stores are like there since GW went to the "no open gaming" policy in their UK shops. GW has so many shops there and such a larger per capita customer base compared to the US and other places, I have been wondering what the no gaming policy has done to their business there in their brick-and-mortar stores. Are the events they have in the shops that replaced open gaming well attended? How is customer traffic and sales in the UKGW stores now since they went to the current policy?
I think rather than mock the prices of this release, I'm going to instead point out that it only took GW 10 years to figure out that people want the mini rulebooks from the box games.
Polonius wrote: I think rather than mock the prices of this release, I'm going to instead point out that it only took GW 10 years to figure out that people want the mini rulebooks from the box games.
Polonius wrote: I think rather than mock the prices of this release, I'm going to instead point out that it only took GW 10 years to figure out that people want the mini rulebooks from the box games.
Better late than never, right?
Some guys love going to strip clubs because it gives them a chance to turn down beautiful women. I sometimes think GW feels the same way about turning down money from customers.
I think this release is too late to make GW much £ - I bet over 90% of people who wanted a mini rulebook got one ages ago.
It should have come out a month or so after the DV or the main rulebook (which ever was later).
bubber wrote: I think this release is too late to make GW much £ - I bet over 90% of people who wanted a mini rulebook got one ages ago.
It should have come out a month or so after the DV or the main rulebook (which ever was later).
It should have, but I imagine this will still sell briskly. I still need another mini rulebook. I lent mine out to a buddy.
It's also good for people getting into the hobby. You split the DV box with a friend, but decide later you want to have your own copy of the rules and bits. Voila. It's also an easy upsale to get people into the game who don't like DA/Chaos. Mini rulebook + battle force should be an easy push for a salesman of any skill.
The main rulebook is both massive and expensive. It's a barrier to enter the game. Reducing the cost of entry will help get new blood in the door. And it might help get older players back in as well.
I, for example, don't use e-bay. I have a number of reasons. I have a number of WHFB armies on the shelf, but haven't played for years. Why? No rules. It was going to take a $75 rulebook and a $50 army book (per army) to start back up again. The over a hundred dollars to just get the rules, not including any new units I needed just turned off any desire I had to get back in. The armies in starter box didn't interest me, so I couldn't use that as a way to leverage some extra value out of my purchase. If I could have picked up the rules for less, I might have not skipped 3 editions of the game. I have all the rules now, due to gifts and tournament prizes at my FLGS. Still haven't played (but I keep meaning to...)
That's just one example, albeit WHFB, not 40k. Not everyone is willing to pick up the starter set and sell off the extras. Not everyone is willing to hit the second hand market. Different people have assorted break points where they thing something is priced acceptably. Having a lower cost of entry will get some of those people.
I suspect one reason it took so long to come out is so they could move more hardcovers. People who just care about the rules don't need the big book. I care about the fluff, but have older editions I can read that in. Given the option, I'd have picked up a small book. If the minis weren't plastered with DA iconography, I'd have picked up DV.
Of course, what's included in the gamer's edition will make or break this. If it's just the mini book in a decorative LE slipcover...
Polonius wrote: Some guys love going to strip clubs because it gives them a chance to turn down beautiful women. I sometimes think GW feels the same way about turning down money from customers.
"Hello, I would like to buy a Baneb-"
"SHUT UP, SLUT!"
"w-what?"
"You probably only play 40k because your daddy never paid attention to you."
bubber wrote: I think this release is too late to make GW much £ - I bet over 90% of people who wanted a mini rulebook got one ages ago.
It should have come out a month or so after the DV or the main rulebook (which ever was later).
It would of been better if it came out around the same time as the book, but it'll probably just been a pile of existing GW products (maybe a different set of dice) put together so it won't really mater how many they sell as it won't be costing them any extra so any sold will just be a bonus.
Since you're in the UK I'd be very interested to know what the stores are like there since GW went to the "no open gaming" policy in their UK shops. GW has so many shops there and such a larger per capita customer base compared to the US and other places, I have been wondering what the no gaming policy has done to their business there in their brick-and-mortar stores. Are the events they have in the shops that replaced open gaming well attended? How is customer traffic and sales in the UKGW stores now since they went to the current policy?
There isn't a "no open gaming" policy in UKGW stores. My two closest GWs have weekly open gaming sessions and will sometimes have bookable sessions for gaming at quiet times of the week. My next local GW has no gaming, but that's because it's the size of a storage cupboard! The manager there set up a gaming club 5 minutes away though so it's no issue.
Honestly don't know why so many of you are ignoring the fact that they're calling it a "gamers edition" and, based on "gamers edition" precedents, will include other stuff.
Again, we all know GW price bashing is like, the coolest thing ever, but come on.
See, GW may bundle the book with a bunch of plastic crap that costs next to nothing to produce in order to justify inflating the hell out of the price of an already crazy overpriced book, but that's not what a lot of people care about when they buy the book.
Templates ($13.25)
Objective Markers ($16.50)
A fancy Dice Cube ($8.25)
And the rulebook.
Something like that would be $38 in GW prices before adding the rulebook. If you could squeeze those in with the rulebook than you would have everything you would need to play a game besides models.
That's just one example, albeit WHFB, not 40k. Not everyone is willing to pick up the starter set and sell off the extras. Not everyone is willing to hit the second hand market. Different people have assorted break points where they thing something is priced acceptably. Having a lower cost of entry will get some of those people.
It's a good point. The starter set is a good deal if you want those armies or figures. Alternatively, if you can be bothered to sell them all off you can get the rules for cheap. Back of envelope calculation shows I got the DV mini-book for under $10 because I sold everything bar the Librarian at a convention, but it did result in me spending an evening assembling and cataloguing the things, before physically taking them to a convention. Would I have paid more if I could get the book individually? Definitely, mini-book at 1/3rd the price of the BRB and both me and my gaming buddy would have snapped it up. 1/3rd the price because it contains 1/3rd of the content at half the size.
cincydooley wrote:Honestly don't know why so many of you are ignoring the fact that they're calling it a "gamers edition" and, based on "gamers edition" precedents, will include other stuff.
Again, we all know GW price bashing is like, the coolest thing ever, but come on.
Spoiler:
BrassScorpion wrote: Is it the same book that comes in Dark Vengeance with some accompanying swag or gaming accessories? I guess we'll know in a few days if it goes up for pre-order when the Lizardmen stuff also goes up for pre-order.
In any case, this is good news for people who need a small rulebook, but who don't wish to buy Dark Vengeance.[/img]
BrassScorpion wrote:If it is a "Gamer's Edition" it will come with some kind of gaming accessories, perhaps even limited edition ones. All of GW's "Gamer's Editions" till now have been a rule book packaged with other items and in most cases at least some of the items have been limited edition whether it be dice, special templates, a satchel or bag of some sort or even most recently an army carrying case. At the price point give, I would expect it to be along the lines of smaller items like dice or templates and maybe a small satchel or something similarly sized.
Steve steveson wrote:No, it's £40. I think you looking at the trade price. It's $59.50, which is actually £39. I would therefor guess at £35. I would guess, as that is only £10 less than the hardback book, that there will be some stuff. Given that a set of dice and templates is £20 it may be good value if you want whatever is with it.
BrookM wrote:It probably comes with templates and special dice.
Ouze wrote:Presumably this includes templates and dice. This is actually a good deal, in my opinion, for someone new to the game.
-Shrike- wrote:I'll wait to see what else there is to the package before passing judgement. Could be quite cool, I like the idea of a satchel with a tape measure and a dice tin.
Nevelon wrote:My guess is that it's just the non-mini stuff from the DV set.
Do you still get the swizzle/whippy sticks in boxes these days? I figure book+dice+templates is probably the right price point for GW, the tape measure would push it over the top. But toss in a few sticks of cheap plastic, and you can bill it as "everything you need to play, barring the minis"
Looks like the new hotness is complaining about "haters" regardless of the content of the posts that preceded yours. I mean, you guys want to complain about people who come into GW threads for the sole purpose of hating, but then you have a fair number of people in this thread pre-emptively complaining about hating and discarding reality as the basis of your post. It's just as bad, effectively doubling the amount of garbage in these threads, and it would be swell if you'd just stop with that.
Do we have any more actual news about what's in this bundle yet?
Kroothawk wrote: Maybe people don't like having essential gaming equipment released only as super-expensive limited editions.
Explain how this statement is anything other than utter nonsense and a bit of pointless GW bashing.
It's a valid point. You have an essential item needed for the game, the rule book.
Currently there are 4 ways to get it.
1. Buy the BRB, at £45. It's a monstrous hard backed tome at about 400 pages, 2/3rds of which are not needed for gaming (fluff and hobby sections).
2. Buy the DV box set. It's £61.50 and comes with just the rules (awesome!) and 2 small DA/Chaos armies. If you don't play those armies they serve no purpose, but you can sell them on.
3. Buy the mini-book as an E-book, which means you need an iPad or tablet or e-reader for $100's.
4. Buy the special edition mini-book, which will come with stuff you may not need, or may already have (like templates for anyone who's bought any of the previous 5 box sets).
All 4 of those options involve buying stuff that the customer may not need or want, purely so they can play the game. I went with #2 and sold the mini's, as the least bad option.
cincydooley wrote: Honestly don't know why so many of you are ignoring the fact that they're calling it a "gamers edition" and, based on "gamers edition" precedents, will include other stuff.
Again, we all know GW price bashing is like, the coolest thing ever, but come on.
But we don't know what other stuff. It could be a baggie of dice and the green templates (which I like far more than the stuff they sell outside of DV). My only concern is for the people that want this edition is, "will it be available at my store?" If it's GW only, I and those I game with will pass simply because they can't get it through our FLGS. One of the guys that plays Tau already commented to our FLGS owner that the Farsight Enclave supplement was a tough by for him because he wants the supplement, but he can't get it via the store.
*shrugs* and as for the hip and cool GW bashing... I bet you're paying 60 bucks for a fancy dust jacket
cincydooley wrote:Honestly don't know why so many of you are ignoring the fact that they're calling it a "gamers edition" and, based on "gamers edition" precedents, will include other stuff.
Again, we all know GW price bashing is like, the coolest thing ever, but come on.
Spoiler:
BrassScorpion wrote: Is it the same book that comes in Dark Vengeance with some accompanying swag or gaming accessories? I guess we'll know in a few days if it goes up for pre-order when the Lizardmen stuff also goes up for pre-order.
In any case, this is good news for people who need a small rulebook, but who don't wish to buy Dark Vengeance.[/img]
BrassScorpion wrote:If it is a "Gamer's Edition" it will come with some kind of gaming accessories, perhaps even limited edition ones. All of GW's "Gamer's Editions" till now have been a rule book packaged with other items and in most cases at least some of the items have been limited edition whether it be dice, special templates, a satchel or bag of some sort or even most recently an army carrying case. At the price point give, I would expect it to be along the lines of smaller items like dice or templates and maybe a small satchel or something similarly sized.
Steve steveson wrote:No, it's £40. I think you looking at the trade price. It's $59.50, which is actually £39. I would therefor guess at £35. I would guess, as that is only £10 less than the hardback book, that there will be some stuff. Given that a set of dice and templates is £20 it may be good value if you want whatever is with it.
BrookM wrote:It probably comes with templates and special dice.
Ouze wrote:Presumably this includes templates and dice. This is actually a good deal, in my opinion, for someone new to the game.
-Shrike- wrote:I'll wait to see what else there is to the package before passing judgement. Could be quite cool, I like the idea of a satchel with a tape measure and a dice tin.
Nevelon wrote:My guess is that it's just the non-mini stuff from the DV set.
Do you still get the swizzle/whippy sticks in boxes these days? I figure book+dice+templates is probably the right price point for GW, the tape measure would push it over the top. But toss in a few sticks of cheap plastic, and you can bill it as "everything you need to play, barring the minis"
Looks like the new hotness is complaining about "haters" regardless of the content of the posts that preceded yours. I mean, you guys want to complain about people who come into GW threads for the sole purpose of hating, but then you have a fair number of people in this thread pre-emptively complaining about hating and discarding reality as the basis of your post. It's just as bad, effectively doubling the amount of garbage in these threads, and it would be swell if you'd just stop with that.
Do we have any more actual news about what's in this bundle yet?
I did say many, and not all. There were many people complaining already about the price. I don't think my comment was unreasonable.
As to it being an "essential" gameplay item: well of course it is. But GW have provided us with the opportunity to get it in no less than 4 flavors (and now 5 with this gamers bundle). I just don't know what people want, and I sometimes think there is going to be bitching just to bitch.
We called for digital products. They're giving them to us.
We told them the digital prices should be lower than the print prices. They dropped the prices on the digital products.
We complained that the digital products were only for iOS. They've delivered ePub editions.
We wanted a Non-DV, non aftermarket way to get a mini rulebook. Well here it is.
I mean, honestly. How much is it going to take for GW to get thrown a bone here for responding to a lot of the requests of its player base?
Kroothawk wrote: Maybe people don't like having essential gaming equipment released only as super-expensive limited editions.
Explain how this statement is anything other than utter nonsense and a bit of pointless GW bashing.
It's a valid point. You have an essential item needed for the game, the rule book.
Currently there are 4 ways to get it.
1. Buy the BRB, at £45. It's a monstrous hard backed tome at about 400 pages, 2/3rds of which are not needed for gaming (fluff and hobby sections).
2. Buy the DV box set. It's £61.50 and comes with just the rules (awesome!) and 2 small DA/Chaos armies. If you don't play those armies they serve no purpose, but you can sell them on.
3. Buy the mini-book as an E-book, which means you need an iPad or tablet or e-reader for $100's.
4. Buy the special edition mini-book, which will come with stuff you may not need, or may already have (like templates for anyone who's bought any of the previous 5 box sets).
All 4 of those options involve buying stuff that the customer may not need or want, purely so they can play the game. I went with #2 and sold the mini's, as the least bad option.
Which of those 4 are limited editions? I've highlighted the other reason why it was a stupid statement for convenience.
Kroothawk wrote: Maybe people don't like having essential gaming equipment released only as super-expensive limited editions.
Explain how this statement is anything other than utter nonsense and a bit of pointless GW bashing.
It's a valid point. You have an essential item needed for the game, the rule book.
Currently there are 4 ways to get it.
1. Buy the BRB, at £45. It's a monstrous hard backed tome at about 400 pages, 2/3rds of which are not needed for gaming (fluff and hobby sections).
2. Buy the DV box set. It's £61.50 and comes with just the rules (awesome!) and 2 small DA/Chaos armies. If you don't play those armies they serve no purpose, but you can sell them on.
3. Buy the mini-book as an E-book, which means you need an iPad or tablet or e-reader for $100's.
4. Buy the special edition mini-book, which will come with stuff you may not need, or may already have (like templates for anyone who's bought any of the previous 5 box sets).
All 4 of those options involve buying stuff that the customer may not need or want, purely so they can play the game. I went with #2 and sold the mini's, as the least bad option.
Which of those 4 are limited editions? I've highlighted the other reason why it was a stupid statement for convenience.
Number 4, and Number 2 until the LE Dark Vengeance set sold out (a few months?)
As to it being an "essential" gameplay item: well of course it is. But GW have provided us with the opportunity to get it in no less than 4 flavors (and now 5 with this gamers bundle). I just don't know what people want, and I sometimes think there is going to be bitching just to bitch.
4, with this, surely?
And we still don't have a no-frills-just-basic-rulebook option. Though they have definitely made some vast improvements with the digital version and this mini-version without the box set, even if it does come with extra stuff.
cincydooley wrote: I mean, honestly. How much is it going to take for GW to get thrown a bone here for responding to a lot of the requests of its player base?
For me? a 15 dollar no frills attached version of the rulebook that comes in Dark Vengeance. People already buy DV sets to part them out because they know people need templates, rulebooks, and cheap form of models. Other companies are able to produce a rules manual for 15 dollars that has about the same number of pages as the DV rules does at a higher quality. That's not to say I don't like that they've come out with other ways to get the rules, I just think that offering a limited gamer's edition is not the right move with offering the mini-rulebook to their players at an affordable price.
cincydooley wrote: I mean, honestly. How much is it going to take for GW to get thrown a bone here for responding to a lot of the requests of its player base?
For me? a 15 dollar no frills attached version of the rulebook that comes in Dark Vengeance. People already buy DV sets to part them out because they know people need templates, rulebooks, and cheap form of models. Other companies are able to produce a rules manual for 15 dollars that has about the same number of pages as the DV rules does at a higher quality. That's not to say I don't like that they've come out with other ways to get the rules, I just think that offering a limited gamer's edition is not the right move with offering the mini-rulebook to their players at an affordable price.
By "other companies" you of course mean "only Wyrd" right .
Seriously, are there any other companies that produce a mini-rulebook for purchase besides Wyrd? Privateers are in starter sets. Dream Pod 9s are in starter sets. Flames of War has one...but can you buy it separately anymore now that the full rules are out?
I meant 5 including this new rulebook because I consider the iOS version and the epub/mobi version to be different version. They're quite different in their layout and presentation, so to me, it makes sense. Further, the epub/ebook one can be read on pretty much any phone now, so doesn't seem to require any other "unwanted' products to buy. Unless you're allergic to cell phones. Then I have no answer for you.
cincydooley wrote: I mean, honestly. How much is it going to take for GW to get thrown a bone here for responding to a lot of the requests of its player base?
For me? a 15 dollar no frills attached version of the rulebook that comes in Dark Vengeance. People already buy DV sets to part them out because they know people need templates, rulebooks, and cheap form of models. Other companies are able to produce a rules manual for 15 dollars that has about the same number of pages as the DV rules does at a higher quality. That's not to say I don't like that they've come out with other ways to get the rules, I just think that offering a limited gamer's edition is not the right move with offering the mini-rulebook to their players at an affordable price.
By "other companies" you of course mean "only Wyrd" right .
Seriously, are there any other companies that produce a mini-rulebook for purchase besides Wyrd? Privateers are in starter sets. Dream Pod 9s are in starter sets. Flames of War has one...but can you buy it separately anymore now that the full rules are out?
I meant 5 including this new rulebook because I consider the iOS version and the epub/mobi version to be different version. They're quite different in their layout and presentation, so to me, it makes sense. Further, the epub/ebook one can be read on pretty much any phone now, so doesn't seem to require any other "unwanted' products to buy. Unless you're allergic to cell phones. Then I have no answer for you.
I do mean only Wyrd, and I'll admonish the other companies too! Though to be fair to PP, I've never needed their rulebooks in such a way that I would want/need a small copy of the rules.
I think it also has to do with the quality of the starter sets and the size of the main rulebook. Flames of War - Open Fire! (70 USD): Full color mini rulebook of complete rules Intro guide 2 armies of about 750 points Army Lists that can easily be expanded to hold a 2000 point list without needing to buy a sourcebook Cheapo dice of the different army colors Punchout counters and objective markers Punchout terrain (wtf terrain?!) Models: 11 detailed plastic tanks, 1 plastic terrain piece, 2 anti-tank guns, 24 bases of infantry models (I just counted what's on the box )
Privater Press - Warmachine/Hordes 2 Player Battle Box (100 USD): Full color mini rulebook of just the rules (86 pages) Intro guide 2 armies of 25 points Stat cards Dice Ruler Models: 17 plastic Warmachine models or 20 plastic Hordes models
Games Workshop - Dark Vengeance (99.00): Full Color 168 page mini rulebook Intro Guide 48 Miniatures An Army Roster sheet (with no points ) Dice Templates Dreaded Whippy Sticks Models: 48 well detailed Citadel Miniatures that are snap together, don't require much if any glue, just not split very evenly pointswise .
Edit: I amend my statement that DV is the most expensive, the 2 player battle box is more expensive by 99 cents . The only defense one might have against that claim is that with DV I need a lot more to reach "average"/"tournament standard" army size .
All of the starter boxes are solid, but GW's is lacking because of the additional purchase beyond the DV set. With Flames of War, I only have to buy models and never have to purchase a sourcebook for a certain battle/operation. With Warmahordes, I only have to buy models as model rules/stats are supplied, and I'm almost to average army size. With GW I have to purchase a lot more models as well as the codex to legally run those models.
See, for me, I'd be admonishing the other companies for not giving me the opportunity to purchase digital versions of their rules.
I very much appreciate this from GW, as I'm in the process of liquidating pretty much all physical media from my house. Books, BluRays, etc. It's all going. I think I'm selling about 50 or 60 Black Library novels on eBay right now, in fact.
cincydooley wrote: See, for me, I'd be admonishing the other companies for not giving me the opportunity to purchase digital versions of their rules.
I very much appreciate this from GW, as I'm in the process of liquidating pretty much all physical media from my house. Books, BluRays, etc. It's all going. I think I'm selling about 50 or 60 Black Library novels on eBay right now, in fact.
I'm still not sold on pure digital rules, I enjoy the fact that they exist in some case, I still like my rules to be in dead tree form simply because I like being able to grab my book off the shelf and look up a rule instead of having to scour pdf after pdf for a rule. I tried to DnD 3.5 purely digital for a spell, and it can go feth itself.
Edit: Instead of selling those BL books, you should "donate" them to me as an act of charity, and so I have something to read on my lunch breaks.
Kroothawk wrote: Maybe people don't like having essential gaming equipment released only as super-expensive limited editions.
Explain how this statement is anything other than utter nonsense and a bit of pointless GW bashing.
It's a valid point. You have an essential item needed for the game, the rule book.
Currently there are 4 ways to get it.
1. Buy the BRB, at £45. It's a monstrous hard backed tome at about 400 pages, 2/3rds of which are not needed for gaming (fluff and hobby sections).
2. Buy the DV box set. It's £61.50 and comes with just the rules (awesome!) and 2 small DA/Chaos armies. If you don't play those armies they serve no purpose, but you can sell them on.
3. Buy the mini-book as an E-book, which means you need an iPad or tablet or e-reader for $100's.
4. Buy the special edition mini-book, which will come with stuff you may not need, or may already have (like templates for anyone who's bought any of the previous 5 box sets).
All 4 of those options involve buying stuff that the customer may not need or want, purely so they can play the game. I went with #2 and sold the mini's, as the least bad option.
Which of those 4 are limited editions? I've highlighted the other reason why it was a stupid statement for convenience.
Number 4, and Number 2 until the LE Dark Vengeance set sold out (a few months?)
As to it being an "essential" gameplay item: well of course it is. But GW have provided us with the opportunity to get it in no less than 4 flavors (and now 5 with this gamers bundle). I just don't know what people want, and I sometimes think there is going to be bitching just to bitch.
4, with this, surely?
And we still don't have a no-frills-just-basic-rulebook option. Though they have definitely made some vast improvements with the digital version and this mini-version without the box set, even if it does come with extra stuff.
Ahh, so the point IS stupid then because you can in fact pick up the essential gaming equipment in a non-limited format. Read before blindly agreeing with some nonsense.
I meant 5 including this new rulebook because I consider the iOS version and the epub/mobi version to be different version. They're quite different in their layout and presentation, so to me, it makes sense. Further, the epub/ebook one can be read on pretty much any phone now, so doesn't seem to require any other "unwanted' products to buy. Unless you're allergic to cell phones. Then I have no answer for you.
It's going to be hilarious reading an rules ebook on my 2.5" touch screen cell phone (I like buttons). It's naive to assume that everyone has a phone capable of viewing ebooks on phones, and that there's no additional device required. I'll concede it's 5 methods if you count ipad and ebook differently, as they do contain different features.
And we still don't have a no-frills-just-basic-rulebook option. Though they have definitely made some vast improvements with the digital version and this mini-version without the box set, even if it does come with extra stuff.
Ahh, so the point IS stupid then because you can in fact pick up the essential gaming equipment in a non-limited format. Read before blindly agreeing with some nonsense.
Not at all. You can only pick up essential gaming equipment with other stuff, which is still a nuisance. Even though there is non-limited in terms of production rates, you're still forced to buy something you don't need to get the rules (a tablet, a lot of mini's, a tome of fluff). The fact is that they already publish the book many people want, but it's only available in the starter set at 4x the expected price.
If you purely want to argue that no essentials are sold in a limited format, then have a look for the Apocalypse cards and Vortex Grenades. The Vortex Grenades appear to be unavailable already whilst touted as essential.
I do mean only Wyrd, and I'll admonish the other companies too! Though to be fair to PP, I've never needed their rulebooks in such a way that I would want/need a small copy of the rules..
I don't think the issue is that people want pocket sized rules as such, as the problem isn't there with any other ruleset I've got (HC, BA, 7ombieTV, EOTD, SOTR). The difference being those rulebooks are all ~100 pages, some in softback, and are perfectly manageable.
With GW, the standard rulebook is an absolute unwieldy monster, and contains a lot of stuff not required to play a game. The BRB would be a lot more suitable if it was split into 3 separate books (Rules, Fluff, Hobby) so that the required part (Rules) is convenient to use, even if they were still only available in a £45 bundle.
So the requirement for a mini-rulebook is a direct result of the main rulebook being so excessive and unwieldy.
While not wargames, there are a few RPGs that sell "pocket" sized versions of the rules, aimed at players, and not GMs. They have all the rules, but might be lacking some of the sample settings and/or fluff background stuff. Still everything you need to play, and at ~$20 rather then $40-50.
The way GW prices their stuff, I don't see a way they could put the mini rulebook straight on the shelf, they need to bundle it. While I cringe when I shell out the cash for a GW hardcover, I do have to admit that it is a quality product. Good paper, full color, nice cover, etc. The mini books lack that. I'd price it in the $20-30 range, and that's being generous. For a non-GW product, I'd look at a flimsy paperback price ($7-15 these days?)
If you have a ~$25 copy of the rules sitting next to a $75 copy, you have to ask why pay the higher price? You would gut the sales of the hardcovers. The fact that people pay for the LE, twice the price, books tells us there are people like that, but I think they are an exception, rather then the rule. But by bundling stuff with the mini rules, they narrow the price gap, plus make an interesting/useful pack of stuff people want/need.
Or I hope they do. There are a lot of variables involved here, depending what's in the Gamer's Edition. It could range for the best deal ever for new players to a sleazy money grab. I guess we'll find out when we get details...
How can I make this clearer. I said that the statement 'Maybe people don't like having essential gaming equipment released only as super-expensive limited editions' was stupid because GW have more than one way to purchase the rules in a format that is available in a non-limited way. I'm bored of the constant GW bashing.
There are plenty of things that are wrong with the company, not least the prices. But releasing another way of getting the rules? It's hardly another reason.
Nevelon wrote: While not wargames, there are a few RPGs that sell "pocket" sized versions of the rules, aimed at players, and not GMs. They have all the rules, but might be lacking some of the sample settings and/or fluff background stuff. Still everything you need to play, and at ~$20 rather then $40-50.
I think we can all agree that the RPG industry is leaps and bounds ahead of the wargaming industry when it comes to utlizing digital files and player friendly formats. And they've been doing it for years....
Hilariously someone tried to start a thread about this Mini-rulebook Gamer's Edition topic here on Dakka with a link to BoLS when I was the one who supplied BoLS with the information just after I posted it here on Dakka. Circle of life? Nah, circle of repetition on the Internet. LOL.
The $74.25 US hardback rulebook is a bit much for some gamers and it's pretty inconvenient to tote around. If you happen to need the other items being packaged in this upcoming rumored Gamer's Edition I don't think the price tag is terrible, especially for those with no interest in the models in Dark Vengeance. Dark Vengeance is probably still a better buy overall, it has the best looking plastic miniatures GW has ever produced. Of course, I was lucky, I collect both Dark Angels and Chaos Marines.
Kroothawk wrote: Maybe people don't like having essential gaming equipment released only as super-expensive limited editions.
Explain how this statement is anything other than utter nonsense and a bit of pointless GW bashing.
People demanded a 40k introductory game for years. GW released one, as a limited edition selling out in 2 days.
People demanded the small starter box rulebook sold separately for years. GW will release one, as a limited super expensive limited edition. Don't tell me that you never heard of those demands.
GW is mocking all demands to at least not raise the hurdle to start this game.
Kroothawk wrote: Maybe people don't like having essential gaming equipment released only as super-expensive limited editions.
Explain how this statement is anything other than utter nonsense and a bit of pointless GW bashing.
People demanded a 40k introductory game for years. GW released one, as a limited edition selling out in 2 days.
People demanded the small starter box rulebook sold separately for years. GW will release one, as a limited super expensive limited edition. Don't tell me that you never heard of those demands.
GW is mocking all demands to at least not raise the hurdle to start this game.
What was the limited edition intro game? Was this the Limited Edition DV set?
BrassScorpion wrote: Hilariously someone tried to start a thread about this Mini-rulebook Gamer's Edition topic here on Dakka with a link to BoLS when I was the one who supplied BoLS with the information just after I posted it here on Dakka. Circle of life? Nah, circle of repetition on the Internet. LOL.
The $74.25 US hardback rulebook is a bit much for some gamers and it's pretty inconvenient to tote around. If you happen to need the other items being packaged in this upcoming rumored Gamer's Edition I don't think the price tag is terrible, especially for those with no interest in the models in Dark Vengeance. Dark Vengeance is probably still a better buy overall, it has the best looking plastic miniatures GW has ever produced. Of course, I was lucky, I collect both Dark Angels and Chaos Marines.
geez send me your address and I'll send you my old specks.
look the helbrute 1 looks sorta OK, 2 looks stupid.
Cultists 2 of most models, and marine models with joins going through the head. No movement on loose arms.
At least with black reach you had some possible movement.
BrassScorpion wrote: Hilariously someone tried to start a thread about this Mini-rulebook Gamer's Edition topic here on Dakka with a link to BoLS when I was the one who supplied BoLS with the information just after I posted it here on Dakka. Circle of life? Nah, circle of repetition on the Internet. LOL.
The $74.25 US hardback rulebook is a bit much for some gamers and it's pretty inconvenient to tote around. If you happen to need the other items being packaged in this upcoming rumored Gamer's Edition I don't think the price tag is terrible, especially for those with no interest in the models in Dark Vengeance. Dark Vengeance is probably still a better buy overall, it has the best looking plastic miniatures GW has ever produced. Of course, I was lucky, I collect both Dark Angels and Chaos Marines.
geez send me your address and I'll send you my old specks.
look the helbrute 1 looks sorta OK, 2 looks stupid.
Cultists 2 of most models, and marine models with joins going through the head. No movement on loose arms.
At least with black reach you had some possible movement.
Is this english? I have no idea what you're saying.
geez send me your address and I'll send you my old specks. look the helbrute 1 looks sorta OK, 2 looks stupid. Cultists 2 of most models, and marine models with joins going through the head. No movement on loose arms. At least with black reach you had some possible movement.
Lazy English to normal English translation:
Hello fellow gamer! Please send me your address and I will send you a pair of my old eyeglasses as I believe your eyesight may be deficient. For example, look at the hellbrute. One of the hellbrutes included in the boxset looks fairly decent while the other looks stupid. Yes, I am aware that having two opinions for the same model seems a bit strange. The Chaos cultists have duplicates of many of the models, which really has nothing to do with the sculpts, but does annoy me. Many of the marines have awkward positioning of joins and mold lines and come in static positions which are difficult to convert. At least with the previous starter set, Assault on Black Reach, there was potential for more action-packed posing and conversions. Golly gee gosh, I wonder where my shift key went.
BrassScorpion wrote: Hilariously someone tried to start a thread about this Mini-rulebook Gamer's Edition topic here on Dakka with a link to BoLS when I was the one who supplied BoLS with the information just after I posted it here on Dakka. Circle of life? Nah, circle of repetition on the Internet. LOL.
The $74.25 US hardback rulebook is a bit much for some gamers and it's pretty inconvenient to tote around. If you happen to need the other items being packaged in this upcoming rumored Gamer's Edition I don't think the price tag is terrible, especially for those with no interest in the models in Dark Vengeance. Dark Vengeance is probably still a better buy overall, it has the best looking plastic miniatures GW has ever produced. Of course, I was lucky, I collect both Dark Angels and Chaos Marines.
geez send me your address and I'll send you my old specks.
look the helbrute 1 looks sorta OK, 2 looks stupid.
Cultists 2 of most models, and marine models with joins going through the head. No movement on loose arms.
At least with black reach you had some possible movement.
Is this english? I have no idea what you're saying.
specks = spectacles
look at the helbrute 1 looks sorta OK, 2 looks stupid. sorta = sort of
geez send me your address and I'll send you my old specks.
look the helbrute 1 looks sorta OK, 2 looks stupid.
Cultists 2 of most models, and marine models with joins going through the head. No movement on loose arms.
At least with black reach you had some possible movement.
Lazy English to normal English translation:
Hello fellow gamer! Please send me your address and I will send you a pair of my old eyeglasses as I believe your eyesight may be deficient.
For example, look at the hellbrute. One of the hellbrutes included in the boxset looks fairly decent while the other looks stupid. Yes, I am aware that having two opinions for the same model seems a bit strange.
The Chaos cultists have duplicates of many of the models, which really has nothing to do with the sculpts, but does annoy me. Many of the marines have awkward positioning of joins and mold lines and come in static positions which are difficult to convert.
At least with the previous starter set, Assault on Black Reach, there was potential for more action-packed posing and conversions.
Golly gee gosh, I wonder where my shift key went.
Pretre, here are your 1000 internetz points.
I'm not above being interested in a gamer's edition. I just wish I didn't have to go to the GW store to get it, or use their website. I'd much rather this be available through my FLGS.
geez send me your address and I'll send you my old specks.
look the helbrute 1 looks sorta OK, 2 looks stupid.
Cultists 2 of most models, and marine models with joins going through the head. No movement on loose arms.
At least with black reach you had some possible movement.
Lazy English to normal English translation:
Hello fellow gamer! Please send me your address and I will send you a pair of my old eyeglasses as I believe your eyesight may be deficient.
For example, look at the hellbrute. One of the hellbrutes included in the boxset looks fairly decent while the other looks stupid. Yes, I am aware that having two opinions for the same model seems a bit strange. Actually, I think I meant that the incredibly unique sculpt of the Heldrake makes it difficult to have duplicates without detracting from the aesthetic appeal. Or in common English, it doesn't look as good when you have copies of the same model. The Chaos cultists have duplicates of many of the models, which really has nothing to do with the sculpts, but does annoy me. Many of the marines have awkward positioning of joins and mold lines and come in static positions which are difficult to convert.
At least with the previous starter set, Assault on Black Reach, there was potential for more action-packed posing and conversions.
Golly gee gosh, I wonder where my shift key went.
Exalted, bold sentence mine.
EDIT: damn pages numbers, I thought I was reading the last page! Ninja'd! Sorry Manchu, getting back on topic.
... Where are the pics?! I demand pictures! At least then we can discuss something more than the name and price.
Alfndrate wrote:What was the limited edition intro game? Was this the Limited Edition DV set?
Yes, Space Hulk.
cincydooley wrote:No. He's just being obtuse. Space Hulk wasn't intended to be a "40k starter" product.
As always thanks for the personal attack. Maybe you weren't around back then. But Space Quest/Space Hulk and Heroquest were indeed the proven most effective introduction games to the hobby, winning thousands of new customers. Veterans will confirm that. That's why a general rerelease of Space Hulk was a major demand in "What should GW do" discussion threads for years. Why so many veterans were happy with a rerelease, until they were informed that it will be extremely limited with no advertising until the day of the release.
Alfndrate wrote:What was the limited edition intro game? Was this the Limited Edition DV set?
Yes, Space Hulk.
cincydooley wrote:No. He's just being obtuse. Space Hulk wasn't intended to be a "40k starter" product.
As always thanks for the personal attack. Maybe you weren't around back then. But Space Quest/Space Hulk and Heroquest were indeed the proven most effective introduction games to the hobby, winning thousands of new customers. Veterans will confirm that. That's why a general rerelease of Space Hulk was a major demand in "What should GW do" discussion threads for years. Why so many veterans were happy with a rerelease, until they were informed that it will be extremely limited with no advertising until the day of the release.
The 3rd editon of Space Hulk, to which you were referring, was not intended to be an intro product. Veterans will confirm that. That's why a general rerelease of Space Hulk was not distributed in the manner that it was "back in the good old days." If you are the omniscient veteran you claim to be, you'd know that. Those veterans were equally happy that they were able to get a new copy. I have a hard time too many of them were broken up that it wasn't stocked at Toys R Us.
