So team America has gone off to Europe to once again compete in the etc. ill keep updating this post to let you know how we're doing individually and as a whole.
Round one of singles is finishing up, right now Nick Nanavati beat gk razor spam with a 15 out of 20. Tony Kopach got a 10 against arch guard army. Mitch Tucker the coach got a 12 against necron grey knights. Alan bajramovic got a 16 against tau. And Andrew Gonyo beat tau in a mirror going second.
Pretty good showing so far let's hope we can keep it up!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just so everyone knows:
Nick Nanavati is playing daemons/chaos
Alan bajramovic is playing necrons
Tony Kopach is using guard/wolves for singles and space marines/guard for team
Andrew Gonyo is playing pure tau
Greg sparks, the captain is playing Eldar/tau
Mitch tucker is playing tau/Eldar but only in singles
Ben Cromwell who is filling in for how cherry is running chaos
John willingham is using grey knights
Brad Chester is playing drop wolves
yermom wrote: Round one of singles is finishing up, right now Nick Nanavati beat gk razor spam with a 15 out of 20. Tony Kopach got a 10 against arch guard army. Mitch Tucker the coach got a 12 against necron grey knights. Alan bajramovic got a 16 against tau. And Andrew Gonyo beat tau in a mirror going second.
Great job so far, guys!!
I'd like to know what the "drop wolves" list is (or indeed all the lists) when you are done and someone can post them
I request a less cheesy name than "Team America" though . Okay, maybe there isn't one, I just can't help but imagine you guys wearing stars and stripes T-shirts
PLAYER 3: Brad “The Tool” Chester
ARMY PRIMARY DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Space Wolves
PRIMARY DETACHMENT:
HQ1 - Warlord : Rune Priest (100), Force Axe (0), Living Lightning (0), Jaws of the World Wolf (0) - [100 pts]
HQ2: Rune Priest (100), Force Axe (0), Boltgun (0), Murderous Hurricane (0), Jaws of the World Wolf (0) - [100 pts]
Transport1: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport2: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport3: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport4: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport5: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport6: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport7: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport8: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport9: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
ALLIED DETACHMENT:
HQ 1: Daemon Prince (145), Daemon of Tzeentch (15), The Black Mace (45), Wings (40), Power Armor (20), Gift of Mutation (10) - [275 pts]
Nick Nanavati pulled 14 from farsight bomb
Tony Kopach got 13 from tau Eldar
Andrew Gonyo tabled necrons for a max 20
Mitch lost but pulled 7 against mech guard
Alan bajramovic got 14 6 against khorne dog daemons
For anyone glancing casually, the "results after third round" are actually results after 2nd round.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like Gonyo (Target) rickrolled someone else, and is sitting at the top table going into tomorrow. Pajamapants is up there as well. If I'm reading correctly, Gonyo has left an average of 100 points alive of his opponent across 3 rounds.
I'm excited that kroot are apparently so viable as the only troop choices for tau, since he is cleaning house! I had not heard that... the initial reaction from some was that they were still pretty lackluster.
Of course, I'm sure the triple Riptides help (I had my username first, dammit! Now it looks like a mis-spelling )
Kroot are amazing ... infinitely superior to Fire Warriors, especially due to Ethereals.
Riptides and Kroot are key because they give Tau players the two things they lack to consistently win at higher levels / later rounds of play - linebreaker / backfield contest / general objective contest / cheap and flexible troops. Kroot are still basically awful in combat (though some situations permit it, you're always going to prefer to rapid fire, especially with markers and bonus ethereal-buff shots). Nonetheless, Tau gunlines are great at shooting things ... not so great at actually getting in the enemy's grille late to push the game on objectives, force ties, contest things, etc. Big jump monsters and outflanking mass infantry blobs solve their major problems, and so complement the list expertly. Also, large quantities of kroot can heavily grief all-reserve or flyer spam armies thanks to infil and body count.
Round 3 finished last night as mike said Gonyo is in currently playing the captain of sweeden on top table. Alan is on 3rd table playing the captain of Finland. Tony is drawin his way to victory with no game worse than a 10 and no game better then 14. Nick and Mitch are scrubbing out bad because we suck. (By scrubbing out bad i mean we lost a game)
Large portion of the players don't show up in the singles event actually. Think if the singles as a warm up before the big event. Most people bring there list they are going to play in the team event and they will just get hard match ups to be pushed out.
Darkwynn wrote: Large portion of the players don't show up in the singles event actually. Think if the singles as a warm up before the big event. Most people bring there list they are going to play in the team event and they will just get hard match ups to be pushed out.
This is what I hear every year; it's good to be mindful for no one to get too excited.
Seeing Andrew do well with the list in an all-comers setting is a boon in that I believe his list is more of a defender list for the team component.
frgsinwntr wrote: Looks like the USA has some of the best players in the world. Specifically the eastern US...
If any of you central or Western US want to challenge that notion :p lets see how you do at NOVA
We will see at the Las Vegas Open if you carpet-bagging yankees have the goods or not..
Las vegas open isn't a large enough venue to determine this. you need a much larger field to draw from... something like Adepticon where Nick Nanivati took the team event with his team AND the championship....
NOVA is a big enough format
Las vegas open... this is the first year right? Not sure we can have that man players...
besides... the strippers and gambling may keep us yankees up all night... not a fair fight!
For any that are following / care, Kopach had a tabling while Gonyo pulled a 12/7 minor win; puts Andrew at 80, Kopach at 77; if either of them pulls a major while the other can draw out, very good shot of one winning the ESC. Which, while in some ways just a warm-up for ETC, is still bragging rights.
That word document with all the lists was very interesting reading.
As someone building a Tau army, I was surprised to see:
- the vast majority of Kroot packs did not take the sniper round upgrade (5 out of 32 players running Kroot packs used sniper rounds, at a glance)
- 0 players took any kind of drone with their Pathfinder teams
- only 2 players took a shas'ui upgrade with their Fire Warrior teams (0 shaper upgrades on Kroot as well, less surprisingly)
The problem is that the country is just to large to say who the best players are. Since a lot of the top players on the west coast do not travel to the east coast (and vise versa) that we can never know who the best players are.
And the Las Vegas Open should be as large as the Nova Open (they are both planung for 256 players).
Blackmoor wrote: The problem is that the country is just to large to say who the best players are. Since a lot of the top players on the west coast do not travel to the east coast (and vise versa) that we can never know who the best players are.
And the Las Vegas Open should be as large as the Nova Open.
It's not the size of the event that counts. Larger events present LESS meaningful results by FAR, because there's no way to guarantee the best players all play each other at the appropriate times. They will only tell you who the best SINGLE person was (in a category) for that event ... not how good the concentration of players from different regions are. You're more likely to see meaningful results at something like the Invitational w/ only 32 top-tier folks, or the FOB Invitational (where at least everyone qualified at something, despite the largeness of the subsequent field). Yada yada.
That said, you're totally falling for Rich Therkorn's joking and self-called-out troll.
Blackmoor wrote: The problem is that the country is just to large to say who the best players are. Since a lot of the top players on the west coast do not travel to the east coast (and vise versa) that we can never know who the best players are.
And the Las Vegas Open should be as large as the Nova Open.
It's not the size of the event that counts. Larger events present LESS meaningful results by FAR, because there's no way to guarantee the best players all play each other at the appropriate times. They will only tell you who the best SINGLE person was (in a category) for that event ... not how good the concentration of players from different regions are. You're more likely to see meaningful results at something like the Invitational w/ only 32 top-tier folks, or the FOB Invitational (where at least everyone qualified at something, despite the largeness of the subsequent field). Yada yada.
That said, you're totally falling for Rich Therkorn's joking and self-called-out troll.
Also, it's mandolls.
1 thing I tend to notice is that, no matter the tournament, the great players manage to consistently make it to the top. For example, and this is just a very small sample set, but at the Golden Throne this year, Reece, Frankie, Liz (BAO 13 winner) and Mortetvie made it once again to the Top8, with Mortetvie beating Reece for the top spot (ahem....what should have been my spot had I gone ). In any case, these are all very good players who consistently place very high in tournament play. I am sure if they were to go to an East Coast event, they will continue to do well.
As a matter of fact, I may give it a shot at one of the east coast events myself next year. Any suggestions....
Dozer Blades wrote: There is no way you can see the NE has the best players. That just happens to be where the majority of the ETC players are selected from.
How did one of the better trolls here get trolled?
And ... 'Murrica!
PS - I find it funny how quickly we as Americans tend to compartmentalize regions, almost always in an effort to get closer to ourselves. I guess it's probably not just an American trait, but a natural human one ... it's still funny. Our COUNTRY is doing well at an international event. We all want them to do well at a bigger and much more focused one in a couple days ... TEAMWORK!
MVBrandt wrote: You're more likely to see meaningful results at something like the Invitational w/ only 32 top-tier folks
Not to take anything away from that event, but the problem is that all of the invites are from tournaments in the East (and the Mid-West which is East from here) except the BAO I think,
That said, you're totally falling for Rich Therkorn's joking and self-called-out troll.
Also, it's mandolls.
I know. I am just saying that the country is just to large to say who the best players are since they never play each other.
MVBrandt wrote: You're more likely to see meaningful results at something like the Invitational w/ only 32 top-tier folks
Not to take anything away from that event, but the problem is that all of the invites are from tournaments in the East (and the Mid-West which is East from here) except the BAO I think,
That said, you're totally falling for Rich Therkorn's joking and self-called-out troll.
Also, it's mandolls.
I know. I am just saying that the country is just to large to say who the best players are since they never play each other.
Not really ... GTGT next year, also LVO next year, BAO of course, TSHIFT, and there were a couple of others; not everyone from the West actually attends, which is the same as for Western events ... it's just too expensive (not a slight). We also have two qualifiers from Europe (nominees from ETC team captains). So, no, not really just the East :p
Also, sounds like we need to play this year ... you're not getting in on Wednesday by chance are you?
Las vegas open isn't a large enough venue to determine this. you need a much larger field to draw from... something like Adepticon where Nick Nanivati took the team event with his team AND the championship....
NOVA is a big enough format
Las vegas open... this is the first year right? Not sure we can have that man players...
besides... the strippers and gambling may keep us yankees up all night... not a fair fight!
((i am continuing my in jest smack talking)
Haha, it hasn't even happened yet, how can it now be big enough?! And it is a 256 player event, but we'll see how it shakes down.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and good luck Team USA!!!!!! Kick ass!
As Mike says, I find it very impressive that Gonyo and Kopach are doing so well considering that their lists are pretty put-forward-ish. Especially Gonyo's, I mean 3 Riptides are good, but they don't do THAT much killing - just shows how good of a player he is!
frgsinwntr wrote: Looks like the USA has some of the best players in the world. Specifically the eastern US...
If any of you central or Western US want to challenge that notion :p lets see how you do at NOVA
We will see at the Las Vegas Open if you carpet-bagging yankees have the goods or not..
I cant get any of the beltway guys, the jersey gusy, or the ne guys to go with me :/ Too many gts this yr. Makes it hard for the east guys to get to all the east coast tornys +adeptacon + the west coast events.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blackmoor wrote: The problem is that the country is just to large to say who the best players are. Since a lot of the top players on the west coast do not travel to the east coast (and vise versa) that we can never know who the best players are.
And the Las Vegas Open should be as large as the Nova Open (they are both planung for 256 players).
Bingo! Theres only so many vac days each year and new gt's are popping up all over the place!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MVBrandt wrote: Gonyo won the Singles Championship.
Kopach and Bajramovic both finished in the top 5.
Nicee!!!!!!!! USA USA USA, if we can take back soccer, we can take back warhammer!
Las vegas open isn't a large enough venue to determine this. you need a much larger field to draw from... something like Adepticon where Nick Nanivati took the team event with his team AND the championship....
NOVA is a big enough format
Las vegas open... this is the first year right? Not sure we can have that man players...
besides... the strippers and gambling may keep us yankees up all night... not a fair fight!
((i am continuing my in jest smack talking)
Haha, it hasn't even happened yet, how can it now be big enough?! And it is a 256 player event, but we'll see how it shakes down.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and good luck Team USA!!!!!! Kick ass!
I really really want to go to this, but I party hard when I go to vegas so idk how effective I would be at 40k (im a scrub when sober soo)
I'd do the Vegas trip... But it's the wrong time of year for me... Right time of year for the weather tho. As a teacher June-mid August is my range of big trips
Great job Team USA...keep it up!!!...See a lot of you kids at the NOVA here in a few weeks...
JY2,
As a matter of fact, I may give it a shot at one of the east coast events myself next year. Any suggestions....
Personally I suggest the NOVA open for an East Coast event...you can make a vacation out of it with DC within a 5 min. drive from the event...my two cents...
It's DC in August. That's always been the biggest sticking point for me; 100+ degree days in high-humidity regions just aren't all that exciting, particularly since I live in climate-controlled California.
On the other hand, I've been convinced to head to Tennessee in August, which isn't really much better.
Or meet in the "middle" at AdeptiCon as many folks do already (ok, it's not the middle, but it's closer ).
And living close to DC, I can unfortunately confirm the humidity problems. Did a test piece with spray sealant recently, and it came out with the white powdery effect...
You're in the AC most of the time at a convention, but it does make seeing the monuments / sights less appealing!
jy2 wrote: As a matter of fact, I may give it a shot at one of the east coast events myself next year. Any suggestions....
If you were going to go to only one event for 40k I would go to Adepticon.
If you are going to make a vacation out of it besides just going to the tournament I would go to the Nova Open and take in a lot of DC.That is why I always come out on a Tuesday so that I have a couple of days to see the sites.
I am so stoked about my 8 buddies on Team America 40k doing well! But only those 8 on the team. All the other Team America players are totally not my buddies, and don't deserve aggrandizement (Except those Team America Fantasy players; those guys can be aggrandized too).
If Im not mistaken, It looks like USA won against Czech Repub. 105-55
England lost to Spain 106-54
Germany won against Slovenia 132-30 or something like that.
MarkyMark wrote: I think we still have football, as to 40k It will be interesting!
I think of the draw in South Africa as a "win" for the USA. Besides, an American has gotta be odds on favorite to win the golden boot this year. Jozy! Jozy! Jozy!
As you know this is a team competition. Regardless if Jon or anyone else manages to score 5 points or 15 points, he is part of a team, and that team will win or lose collectively, not individually.
rigeld2 wrote: Willingham choked in round 2... hopefully his teammates carry the day.
He could of been put up first, then 5 points is great. Maybe he did "chocked" but that is not how the event is run. It is a team event, it matters how the team scores.
Coldsteel wrote: The BIG question is whether Team America's CSM player will win a single game. The suspense is killing me!!
Consider cutting him some slack. He stepped in as a last minute replacement after lists were already finalized to play a list he doesn't normally play against a collection of the worlds top players.
Most people wont relise how ETC is run though, and as has been said it is a team event there will always be people with put up lists facing prey lists which will be a hard match for them.
Team America seem to be doing very well though, below is the team scores versus Wales, shame a requirement for being captain isnt to have good handwriting! ha.
Scores in game 1 (big win overall, only one full points though)
Here are the results at tournament middle (3rd round) :
rank / country / match points / victory points
1 Team Germany / 6 / 342
2 Team Spain / 6 / 309
3 Team Poland / 5 / 287
4 Team Russia / 5 / 272
5 Team USA / 5 / 269
6 Team Denmark / 4 / 285
7 Team France / 4 / 280
8 Team Ireland / 4 / 262
9 Team Finland / 4 / 249
10 Team Belarus / 3 / 254
11 Team Sweden / 3 / 252
12 Team Belgium / 3 / 248
13 Team Latvia / 3 / 245
14 Team Switzerland / 3 / 242
15 Team Serbia / 3 / 240
16 Team Wales / 3 / 233
17 Team Greece / 3 / 233
18 Team Ukraine / 3 / 222
19 Team England / 2 / 253
20 Team Italy / 2 / 235
21 Team Scotland / 2 / 235
22 Team Romania / 2 / 218
23 Team Norway / 2 / 194
24 Team Slovenia / 2 / 191
25 Team Malta / 2 / 174
26 Team Czech Republic / 0 / 179
27 Team Northern Ireland / 0 / 164
28 Team Iceland / 0 / 153
pairings for 4th round :
# Team1 Team2 Table Row
1 Team Germany Team Spain C
2 Team Poland Team USA B
3 Team Russia Team Denmark A
4 Team France Team Ireland E
5 Team Finland Team Belarus D
6 Team Sweden Team Belgium H
7 Team Latvia Team Switzerland F
8 Team Serbia Team Wales G
9 Team Greece Team England J
10 Team Ukraine Team Italy I
11 Team Scotland Team Romania K
12 Team Norway Team Malta L
13 Team Slovenia Team Czech Republic M
14 Team Northern Ireland Team Iceland N
Ravajaxe wrote: Here are the results at tournament middle (3rd round) :
rank / country / match points / victory points
1 Team Germany / 6 / 342
2 Team Spain / 6 / 309
3 Team Poland / 5 / 287
4 Team Russia / 5 / 272
5 Team USA / 5 / 269
6 Team Denmark / 4 / 285
7 Team France / 4 / 280
8 Team Ireland / 4 / 262
9 Team Finland / 4 / 249
10 Team Belarus / 3 / 254
11 Team Sweden / 3 / 252
12 Team Belgium / 3 / 248
13 Team Latvia / 3 / 245
14 Team Switzerland / 3 / 242
15 Team Serbia / 3 / 240
16 Team Wales / 3 / 233
17 Team Greece / 3 / 233
18 Team Ukraine / 3 / 222
19 Team England / 2 / 253
20 Team Italy / 2 / 235
21 Team Scotland / 2 / 235
22 Team Romania / 2 / 218
23 Team Norway / 2 / 194
24 Team Slovenia / 2 / 191
25 Team Malta / 2 / 174
26 Team Czech Republic / 0 / 179
27 Team Northern Ireland / 0 / 164
28 Team Iceland / 0 / 153
pairings for 4th round :
# Team1 Team2 Table Row
1 Team Germany Team Spain C
2 Team Poland Team USA B
3 Team Russia Team Denmark A
4 Team France Team Ireland E
5 Team Finland Team Belarus D
6 Team Sweden Team Belgium H
7 Team Latvia Team Switzerland F
8 Team Serbia Team Wales G
9 Team Greece Team England J
10 Team Ukraine Team Italy I
11 Team Scotland Team Romania K
12 Team Norway Team Malta L
13 Team Slovenia Team Czech Republic M
14 Team Northern Ireland Team Iceland N
Six rounds, swiss pairings using match points / victory points. Two rounds per day. They seem to have began 4th round quite late this afternoon (at 4 PM local time).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BladeWalker wrote: USA USA USA! Germany has a huge lead in points, wow! USA v Poland will be tight, how exciting!
Germany and Poland have consistently manage to place quite high last years in W40k. They are undoubtedly the favourites. Spain is performing a remarkable breakthrough this year, some of their army lists make me shiver.
USA have a large pool of competitive tournament players and very active tournament scene, so, I was not expecting them to lay in the middle crowd.
The previously posted table USA vs England was an old one from from 3rd round.
USA was paired with Poland in 4th.
-------------------------------------
Anyway, here are the results from 4th round :
# Team Match points / Game points
1 Team Germany 8 / 445
2 Team Poland 7 / 387
3 Team Spain 6 / 366
4 Team Russia 6 / 353
5 Team Ireland 6 /348
6 Team Finland 6 / 347
7 Team Denmark 5 / 364
8 Team Sweden 5 / 347
9 Team Wales 5 / 331
10 Team USA 5 / 329
11 Team England 4 / 368
12 Team France 4 / 354
13 Team Switzerland 4 / 325
14 Team Latvia 4 / 322
15 Team Ukraine 4 / 299
16 Team Italy 3 / 318
17 Team Belarus 3 / 316
18 Team Scotland 3 / 316
19 Team Belgium 3 / 313
20 Team Serbia 3 / 302
21 Team Romania 3 / 297
22 Team Greece 3 / 278
23 Team Norway 3 / 272
24 Team Malta 3 / 256
25 Team Czech Republic 2 / 298
26 Team Northern Ireland 2 / 261
27 Team Slovenia 2 / 232
28 Team Iceland 0 / 216
So Poland has beaten USA by 100-60.
Waiting for the big clash next round : Deutchland -vs- Polska !!
RiTides wrote: Yeah, Germany and Poland really do seem to be wrecking face. Wonder who will win between the two (and thus probably end up the overall winner).
Spain is still up there too, though!
Germany and Poland always have very tough teams.
I always find this event very interesting. In a way its very Rider Cup ish with the US very interested in Singles and the Europeans in it for the team event.
I don't know if that is accurate. Many people are extremely interested in the team event, especially our players.
The real culprit I think is the geography US teams need to deal with. Many times our player are from different ends of the country and do not get to practice as much as the euro teams. There is no doubt we boast some of the best players in the world, we just have to travel many more miles.
Glocknall wrote: I don't know if that is accurate. Many people are extremely interested in the team event, especially our players.
The real culprit I think is the geography US teams need to deal with. Many times our player are from different ends of the country and do not get to practice as much as the euro teams. There is no doubt we boast some of the best players in the world, we just have to travel many more miles.
It may not be completely accurate but its not far off for many. There will always be exceptions. I find playing in the states to be very different from Europe. Also many teams have the same problem with getting players together before hand to play. The US does not have a lock on this issue.
So, USA are paired with my country (France) at 5th round. I have taken the individual pairings (FR / USA) from a French forum, I am adding the matching army lists in spoilers. Enjoy :
FireMike (necron) vs Adrew Gonyo (tau)
Spoiler:
Player N°8: "Fire.mike" (Mickael R.) Army: Necron
HQ1a (Warlord): Necron Overlord (90), Warscythe (10), Sempiternal Weave (15), Mindshackle Scarabs (15) - [130pts] in Transport 1 HQ1b: 1 Cryptek (25), Harbinges of the Storm with Voltaic Staff (0) - [25pts] HQ1c: 1 Cryptek (25), Harbinger of Despair with Abyssal Staff (5) - [30pts]
HQ2a: Necron Overlord (90), Warscythe (10), Sempiternal Weave (15), Mindshackle Scarabs (15) - [130pts] in Transport 2 HQ2b: 1 Cryptek (25), Harbinger of the Storm with Voltaic Staff (0) - [25pts] HQ2c: 1 Cryptek (25), Harbinger of Despair with Abyssal Staff (5) - [30pts]
Troop1: 5 Necron Immortals (85), tesla carabines (0) - [85pts] in Transport 3 Troop2: 5 Necron Immortals (85), gauss blasters (0) - [85pts] in Transport 4 Troop3: 5 Necron Immortals (85), gauss blasters (0) - [85pts] in Transport 5 Troop4: 5 Necron Warriors - [65pts] in Transport 6 Troop5: 5 Necron Warriors - [65pts] in Transport 7 Troop6: 5 Necron Warriors - [65pts] in Transport 8
HS1: Annihilation Barge (90), tesla canon (0) - [90pts] HS2: Annihilation Barge (90), tesla canon (0) - [90pts] HS3: Annihilation Barge (90), tesla canon (0) - [90pts]
Transport 1: Catacomb commande barge (80), Gauss Cannon (0) - [80pts] Transport 2: Catacomb commande barge (80), Gauss Cannon (0) - [80pts] Transport 3: Night Scythe - [100pts] Transport 4: Night Scythe - [100pts] Transport 5: Night Scythe - [100pts] Transport 6: Night Scythe - [100pts] Transport 7: Night Scythe - [100pts] Transport 8: Night Scythe - [100pts]
ARMY TOTAL [1 850pts] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ PLAYER 2 : Andrew Gonyo ARMY PRIMARY DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Tau
Elite1(a): 3 Trueborns (12x3), 2 Splinters cannons (10x2) - [56pts] in Transport 1
Troop1(a): 5 Warriors (9x5) - [45pts] in Transport 2
HS1(a): Ravager (105), 3 Dark Lances (0), Night shields (10) - [115pts]
Transport 1(a): Venom (55), 2 Splinter Cannons (10), Night Shields (10) - [75pts] Transport 2(a): Venom (55), 2 Splinter Cannons (10), Night Shields (10) - [75pts]
ALLIED TOTAL [471pts] ARMY TOTAL [1 850pts] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ PLAYER 3: Brad “The Tool” Chester ARMY PRIMARY DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Space Wolves
PRIMARY DETACHMENT: HQ1 - Warlord : Rune Priest (100), Living Lightning (0), Jaws of the World Wolf (0) - [100 pts] HQ2: Rune Priest (100), Boltgun (0), Murderous Hurricane (0), Jaws of the World Wolf (0) - [100 pts]
Transport1: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts] Transport2: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts] Transport3: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts] Transport4: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts] Transport5: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts] Transport6: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts] Transport7: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts] Transport8: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts] Transport9: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
PRIMARY TOTAL [1847 pts]
Esprit de la Ruche ('nid) vs Joe “The Hammer” Cherry (CSM)
Spoiler:
Team France Player N°6: "EdlR" (Xavier A.) Army: Tyranids
Fo1: Skyshield Landing Pad - [75pts] ARMY TOTAL [1 850pts] +++++++++++++++++++++++++ PLAYER 1 : Greg “Inquisitor Malice” Sparks - Team Captain ARMY PRIMARY DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Eldar ARMY ALLIED DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Tau
ALLIED TOTAL [496pts] ARMY TOTAL [1 850pts] ++++++++++++++++++++ PLAYER 7: Nick Nanavati ARMY PRIMARY DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Chaos Daemons ARMY ALLIED DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Chaos Space Marines
ALLIED DETACHMENT: HQ 1: Daemon Prince (145), Daemon of Tzeentch (15), The Black Mace (45), Wings (40), Power Armor (20), Gift of Mutation (10) - [275 pts]
Troop 1: Chaos Cultists (50) - [50 pts]
FA1: Heldrake (170), Baleflamer (0) - [170 pts]
ALLIED TOTAL: [495 pts] ARMY TOTAL: [1850 pts]
Mission is : THE SCOURING Each player places three markers 6 "from the edge, 12" from each other worth 1, 2 and 3 points (point values noted in secret by the player deploying them). Then before rolling to take the initiative you need to give your opponent the value of individual markers. DEPLOYMENT - VANGUARD STRIKE
Preditction...USA gets the win barely...5 player wins to 3 player losses...but two of the losses are bad and USA barely scrapes a win on mission points...
Tie match between USA & France ! Poland has defeated his arch-rival Germany and takes the lead.
results from round 6 # Team Match points Game points
1 Team Poland 9 475 2 Team Germany 8 517 3 Team Spain 8 452 4 Team Sweden 7 448 5 Team Finland 7 429 6 Team Ireland 7 426 7 Team England 6 456 8 Team Russia 6 427 9 Team USA 6 411 10 Team Serbia 5 462 11 Team France 5 432 12 Team Denmark 5 423 13 Team Latvia 5 405 14 Team Belarus 5 403 15 Team Wales 5 403 16 Team Switzerland 5 400 17 Team Ukraine 5 384 18 Team Italy 4 395 19 Team Czech Republic 4 388 20 Team Romania 4 382 21 Team Greece 4 353 22 Team Malta 4 336 23 Team Slovenia 4 336 24 Team Scotland 3 389 25 Team Norway 3 342 26 Team Northern Ireland 3 341 27 Team Belgium 3 313 28 Team Iceland 0 272
Warhammer 40000 - Final round pairs
# Team1 Team2 Table Row
1 Team Poland Team Spain G 2 Team Germany Team Sweden E 3 Team Finland Team England B 4 Team Ireland Team Russia F 5 Team USA Team Serbia A 6 Team France Team Denmark H 7 Team Latvia Team Belarus C 8 Team Wales Team Switzerland D 9 Team Ukraine Team Czech Republic K 10 Team Italy Team Romania M 11 Team Greece Team Malta I 12 Team Slovenia Team Scotland J 13 Team Norway Team Northern Ireland L 14 Team Belgium Team Iceland N
So, USA are paired with my country (France) at 5th round.
I have taken the individual pairings (FR / USA) from a French forum, I am adding the matching army lists in spoilers. Enjoy :
FireMike (necron) vs Adrew Gonyo (tau)
Spoiler:
Player N°8: "Fire.mike" (Mickael R.)
Army: Necron
HQ1a (Warlord): Necron Overlord (90), Warscythe (10), Sempiternal Weave (15), Mindshackle Scarabs (15) - [130pts] in Transport 1
HQ1b: 1 Cryptek (25), Harbinges of the Storm with Voltaic Staff (0) - [25pts]
HQ1c: 1 Cryptek (25), Harbinger of Despair with Abyssal Staff (5) - [30pts]
HQ2a: Necron Overlord (90), Warscythe (10), Sempiternal Weave (15), Mindshackle Scarabs (15) - [130pts] in Transport 2
HQ2b: 1 Cryptek (25), Harbinger of the Storm with Voltaic Staff (0) - [25pts]
HQ2c: 1 Cryptek (25), Harbinger of Despair with Abyssal Staff (5) - [30pts]
Troop1: 5 Necron Immortals (85), tesla carabines (0) - [85pts] in Transport 3
Troop2: 5 Necron Immortals (85), gauss blasters (0) - [85pts] in Transport 4
Troop3: 5 Necron Immortals (85), gauss blasters (0) - [85pts] in Transport 5
Troop4: 5 Necron Warriors - [65pts] in Transport 6
Troop5: 5 Necron Warriors - [65pts] in Transport 7
Troop6: 5 Necron Warriors - [65pts] in Transport 8
HS1: Annihilation Barge (90), tesla canon (0) - [90pts]
HS2: Annihilation Barge (90), tesla canon (0) - [90pts]
HS3: Annihilation Barge (90), tesla canon (0) - [90pts]
Transport 1: Catacomb commande barge (80), Gauss Cannon (0) - [80pts]
Transport 2: Catacomb commande barge (80), Gauss Cannon (0) - [80pts]
Transport 3: Night Scythe - [100pts]
Transport 4: Night Scythe - [100pts]
Transport 5: Night Scythe - [100pts]
Transport 6: Night Scythe - [100pts]
Transport 7: Night Scythe - [100pts]
Transport 8: Night Scythe - [100pts]
ARMY TOTAL [1 850pts]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 2 : Andrew Gonyo
ARMY PRIMARY DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Tau
Elite1(a): 3 Trueborns (12x3), 2 Splinters cannons (10x2) - [56pts] in Transport 1
Troop1(a): 5 Warriors (9x5) - [45pts] in Transport 2
HS1(a): Ravager (105), 3 Dark Lances (0), Night shields (10) - [115pts]
Transport 1(a): Venom (55), 2 Splinter Cannons (10), Night Shields (10) - [75pts]
Transport 2(a): Venom (55), 2 Splinter Cannons (10), Night Shields (10) - [75pts]
ALLIED TOTAL [471pts]
ARMY TOTAL [1 850pts]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 3: Brad “The Tool” Chester
ARMY PRIMARY DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Space Wolves
PRIMARY DETACHMENT:
HQ1 - Warlord : Rune Priest (100), Living Lightning (0), Jaws of the World Wolf (0) - [100 pts]
HQ2: Rune Priest (100), Boltgun (0), Murderous Hurricane (0), Jaws of the World Wolf (0) - [100 pts]
Transport1: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport2: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport3: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport4: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport5: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport6: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport7: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport8: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
Transport9: Drop Pod (35) - [35 pts]
PRIMARY TOTAL [1847 pts]
Esprit de la Ruche ('nid) vs Joe “The Hammer” Cherry (CSM)
Spoiler:
Team France
Player N°6: "EdlR" (Xavier A.)
Army: Tyranids
Fo1: Skyshield Landing Pad - [75pts]
ARMY TOTAL [1 850pts]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 1 : Greg “Inquisitor Malice” Sparks - Team Captain
ARMY PRIMARY DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Eldar
ARMY ALLIED DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Tau
ALLIED TOTAL [496pts]
ARMY TOTAL [1 850pts]
++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 7: Nick Nanavati
ARMY PRIMARY DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Chaos Daemons
ARMY ALLIED DETACHMENT DESCRIPTION: Chaos Space Marines
ALLIED DETACHMENT:
HQ 1: Daemon Prince (145), Daemon of Tzeentch (15), The Black Mace (45), Wings (40), Power Armor (20), Gift of Mutation (10) - [275 pts]
Troop 1: Chaos Cultists (50) - [50 pts]
FA1: Heldrake (170), Baleflamer (0) - [170 pts]
ALLIED TOTAL: [495 pts]
ARMY TOTAL: [1850 pts]
Mission is : THE SCOURING
Each player places three markers 6 "from the edge, 12" from each other worth 1, 2 and 3 points (point values noted in secret by the player deploying them).
Then before rolling to take the initiative you need to give your opponent the value of individual markers.
DEPLOYMENT - VANGUARD STRIKE
Who won between Throst and Tony? I have played Throst a fair amount of times in France and Switzerland. I always enjoy our games I think we are tied at two games each overall lol. Though his team killed my Swiss team in that team tournament that hold every December. I always find it interesting that they what to play with shared dice
Actually Tony seems to have played another friend and neighbor of mine in Geneve Fillipo who playes for Wales.
I haven't encountered throst at a tournament, but I see what you mean. Many times they go at a tournament with army lists that wreak faces, but they are very kind people on the other hand.
5th round details
FireMike (necron) vs Adrew Gonyo (tau) 6 - 14
Wilme (GK) vs Jon "the man" Willingham (GK) 15 - 5
Makai (eldar) vs Brad “The Tool” Chester (SW) 10 - 10
Esprit de la Ruche ('nid) vs Joe “The Hammer” Cherry (CSM) 14 - 6
Shas'O Kassad (tau) vs Alan Bajramovic (Necron) 11 - 9
throst (CSM/nec) vs Tony “The Kid” Kopach (SM/IG) 13 - 7
Lestat (DE) vs Greg “Inquisitor Malice” Sparks - Team Captain (eldar) 9 - 11
Lexa (IG) vs Nick Nanavati (demon) 0 - 20
So except for our IG player who has been utterly crushed by nick, that was pretty close. As an IG player, I was not a fan of his army list anyway...
1 Team Germany 10 / 604
2 Team Spain 10 / 551
3 Team Poland 9 / 536
4 Team Finland 8 / 506
5 Team Ireland 8 / 505
6 Team England 7 / 539
7 Team Sweden 7 / 521
8 Team Belarus 7 / 513
9 Team Russia 7 / 508
10 Team USA 7 / 492 11 Team Ukraine 7 / 474
12 Team Serbia 6 / 541
13 Team France 6 / 516
14 Team Denmark 6 / 499
15 Team Italy 6 / 490
16 Team Wales 6 / 484
17 Team Switzerland 6 / 479
18 Team Greece 6 / 474
19 Team Scotland 5 / 477
20 Team Latvia 5 / 455
21 Team Norway 5 / 431
22 Team Belgium 5 / 429
23 Team Czech Republic 4 / 458
24 Team Romania 4 / 447
25 Team Slovenia 4 / 408
26 Team Malta 4 / 375
27 Team Northern Ireland 3 / 412
28 Team Iceland 0 / 316
Guys, Ireland and Northern Ireland are next to one another on the same island, and thus one would assume the players might have a similar meta and skill level. One team did much better than the other.
It was a reasonable observation / question... not sure why it elicited that reaction
Anyway, once again congrats to Germany on sweeping both the 40k and fantasy team events, and to team USA for winning the singles event and for putting forward a better showing than last year!
Honorable mention to Spain for kicking butt this year, too . Now they not only have some of the best new miniatures sculptors, but apparently some of the best players, too!
It just seems like USA should do better seeing how big is the country and all the great players we have. Maybe there is a better way to go about selecting the team.
Dozer Blades wrote: It just seems like USA should do better seeing how big is the country and all the great players we have. Maybe there is a better way to go about selecting the team.
Yes and No. Dont forget the Euros play these type of games all year round where the US has its own play style etc. Also keep in the mind the fact that flying to these countries is extremely expensive which not every gamer or even the best gamers can afford.
So if you add it up playing a style not used in the US and then factor in the money aspect it means the best of the best dont always get to go. Now our team is incredible and made up of some amazing talents but that is in the US meta of the game. If we played the Euro meta all year we would be placing on the regular I think. (our talent is that good). they really are 2 totally different ways of thinking and playing.
Dozer Blades wrote: It just seems like USA should do better seeing how big is the country and all the great players we have. Maybe there is a better way to go about selecting the team.
The American team is so good they get to play in an event called "European Team Championship".
I think the biggest issue with Americans competing in the ETC is convenience. There are certainly a lot of great 40k players here, but how many players are great and can afford/are willing to fly to Europe for a weekend of 40k? I imagine its a lot more expensive to fly overseas than it is to drive through a few (relatively) small countries.
Plus, I don't know what the method is of choosing members, but I doubt its available to every 40k player. The country is simply too massive to organize properly. I have, however, heard quite a few people talk about the eventual possibility in a few years of a North and South (or East and West) split in sending two USA teams.
The US team is perhaps the strongest it's ever been.
Nick won Adepticon Championships this year and Nova invitational. Brad won Adepticon Championships last year. Tony has his Nova wins. Andrew won DaBoyz last year, killidaelphia, and the ETC singles. Allan won ETC singles last year and WGC last year. Together we put up the winners of America's largest events for the past two years. The last minute CSM sub was unfortunate but unavoidable.
This team format is different than anything we play in America the closest being the ATC. When you take turns picking the pairings, even the best players will lose due to the "rock paper scissors" aspects of each army.
hyv3mynd wrote: The US team is perhaps the strongest it's ever been.
Nick won Adepticon Championships this year and Nova invitational. Brad won Adepticon Championships last year. Tony has his Nova wins. Andrew won DaBoyz last year, killidaelphia, and the ETC singles. Allan won ETC singles last year and WGC last year. Together we put up the winners of America's largest events for the past two years. The last minute CSM sub was unfortunate but unavoidable.
This team format is different than anything we play in America the closest being the ATC. When you take turns picking the pairings, even the best players will lose due to the "rock paper scissors" aspects of each army.
I don't agree - they should have placed higher to be considered the best US team 'ever'. I know how the pairings work - the lists should be designed to handle that aspect adequately.
As another poster said I'd love to see two teams next year. I think it would help out the US a lot and open the door for more of the truly best players.
However 2 teams is not an option. But along those lines of thinking if you had 2 teams sqaure off against each other to determine who will go then I see the point.
On the flip side if US gamers or events put together a ETC charity fund to help players get out there that deserve to go then you would see elite possible best games who happen to be poor also able to go. This would also encourage the top seeds to go as spening thousands is off the table.
hyv3mynd wrote: The US team is perhaps the strongest it's ever been.
Nick won Adepticon Championships this year and Nova invitational. Brad won Adepticon Championships last year. Tony has his Nova wins. Andrew won DaBoyz last year, killidaelphia, and the ETC singles. Allan won ETC singles last year and WGC last year. Together we put up the winners of America's largest events for the past two years. The last minute CSM sub was unfortunate but unavoidable.
This team format is different than anything we play in America the closest being the ATC. When you take turns picking the pairings, even the best players will lose due to the "rock paper scissors" aspects of each army.
Agreed! Although I still can't believe you guys took Dozer's bait
NotThisTime wrote: At the end of the day, it mostly boils down to four components to give yourselves a shot at medaling:
1- Quality Players
2- List Construction
3- Proper Pairings
4- Practice
All four are required to excel in the team format.
Also agreed here. America is likely never going to dominate ETC like Germany seems to be... people just don't often play / practice that format here, with the main exception being this event, and just a handful of others.
Still awesome to send a team and take a crack at it, I just think it makes America "not the favorite" for it, despite having a large pool of excellent players to pull from.
America did a pretty good job, though, especially in WHFB. They managed to rank in at place #8 of 32 in total, despite not being used to the ETC rules system - as far as I am informed, most (all?) US tournaments play Yahtzee Premium Vanilla WHFB.
For that fact alone, they deserve quite some respect
To help people out, there's never going to be a second U.S. Team. The ETC itself is heavily against it. There are pros and cons to both; if you had a 2nd team, it would have to be regionalized in order to make recruiting each team easier, which would then put pressure on having a third team so the regions made sense. Additionally, you'd have to figure out who was going to be the captain ... b/c of the current system, it would just be whoever sent something in first and/or who the ETC people like best if it's simultaneous.
You don't want a 2nd US Team ... it's divisive and painful enough on the captain as it is. And if one team or the other didn't win, everyone would scream about team dilution ... if one team won and the other didn't, it would cause divides. Yada yada.
It's all irrelevant, of course, b/c they won't ALLOW a 2nd team. A giant thread on the ETC forums highlighted it quite clearly, with a lot of low-brow anti-American commentary coupled w/ Team America itself not wanting a 2nd team.
Personally I think it's good they did better, the team drop/add process will help make sure any weaker links (if there were any) are upgraded, and practice makes perfect ... next year I'm sure they'll perform even better. It was also nice to see more of the U.S. community get behind the team than in years past.
The reality is with the size of our country, economic barriers, and logistical challenges, you're never going to have an even semi-provably "best" team of Americans, b/c even putting together America's "best" 8 (if you could identify them, which you can't) would create a lot of friction due to having 8 alphas who barely know each other being required to get along. Be happy that the team got BETTER, and represented America better, than the year before. They should be congratulated for that, and I think the trend would seem to imply that improvement will continue. They may never get a provably "Best" team, but they may consistently start to put forth the best team ... possible.
I think people need to stop and think..the ETC is very hard and completely different to single events. One player could domi ate but if the team doesnt perform due to bad match ups..bad luck..poor play or possibly silly list design..you lose overall or draw. Overall we had a fantastic tight game against the US and i realy hope to see them next year.
After winning it last year..englands performance dropped marginally..i could give a run through as to why but overall i had a blast..met some awesome players..and beat kopach in what was known as the blob off haaha. Was a great game and looking forwards to seeing most of them at Nova in a few weeks
Would be interested on a break down of your games alex assume the teams performance will be on 40kuk podcast?. Also every problem faced by team america is encountered with every other etc team, location of players etc might not be to the degree due to size of us but factor in other issues its not just a tissue they face
The reality is with the size of our country, economic barriers, and logistical challenges, you're never going to have an even semi-provably "best" team of Americans, b/c even putting together America's "best" 8 (if you could identify them, which you can't) would create a lot of friction due to having 8 alphas who barely know each other being required to get along.
I will bite!
Andrew Gonyo
Tony Kopach
Nick Nanavati
Brad Chester
Alan Bajramovic
Ben Mohle
Paul Murphy
Reese Robbins
The last 2 are very good players and Paul gives the team a representative from the south (and not that carpet bagger Willingham), and Reese someone west of the Mississippi for a true team America. You can make an argument for a few others, but that is close to the 8 best IMO.
And I do not agree with your thoughts that 8 alphas can't get along. When united by country Americans step up. I will give you the example of the USA basketball team during the olympics.
Because it is a European Championship and the Europeans think that Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland are countries.
Which in fact they are... Think only in the Olympics do you have them all aggregated up. But in soccer, rugby etc.. They all field independent teams.
Think the issue is more of a team selection one than necessarily enough slots. Why not just have some of the bigger west coast tournaments like the BAO send their winner like the NOVA?
But again, now you're taking players that are literally 3000 miles apart and having them play together.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be some west coast representatives, but that's clearly a problem no other country on the list other than Russia could face.
USA fields only one team for many Olympic events (like, say, indoor team volleyball) but multiples in others (such as beach doubles volleyball). So, honestly it just depends on the venue how many teams are appropriate, imo.
Certainly, a country the size of the USA could be considered for 2 teams. But, since the format is not much practiced here, and the expense to travel to Europe is so great, I don't think people would want to field a second team, anyway (as MVBrandt already explained on the last page).
If we could avoid having folks look down their noses at entire other countries in this thread, though (i.e. the fact that Wales and Ireland are indeed countries, but also the several anti-US jabs that have been posted) that would be great guys. We're all here to enjoy the same hobby and international competition is a really exciting thing
RiTides wrote: But again, now you're taking players that are literally 3000 miles apart and having them play together.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be some west coast representatives, but that's clearly a problem no other country on the list other than Russia could face.
USA fields only one team for many Olympic events (like, say, indoor team volleyball) but multiples in others (such as beach doubles volleyball). So, honestly it just depends on the venue how many teams are appropriate, imo.
Certainly, a country the size of the USA could be considered for 2 teams. But, since the format is not much practiced here, and the expense to travel to Europe is so great, I don't think people would want to field a second team, anyway (as MVBrandt already explained on the last page).
The point regarding travel distance for practice is valid, however I would suggest that this should not exclude participants from the west coast or mountain zones. Doesn't seem to fair to me that because a bunch of the existing team is on the east coast that the west coast would be excluded because it makes travel to difficult. Or to put it another way, if the team was all west coasters would we want to exclude the NOVA open winner because it is to far to travel?
Because it is a European Championship and the Europeans think that Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland are countries.
Which in fact they are... Think only in the Olympics do you have them all aggregated up. But in soccer, rugby etc.. They all field independent teams.
So what makes a country is the fact that soccer recognizes you as one? Not being recognized by the UN, or your government, but by soccer. Wow! I did not know that.
We need to get ahold of all of the map people and get them in touch with the the rugby union to sort this out.
Gotta agree. The USA has every right to multiple teams that the UK does. You're one country now, sorry. If you want to say that they "used to be separate countries" then we will send the entire state of Texas after you!
Yeah, I realize the history of it, but functionally all three are part of Great Britain, and should be rolled into one team. Otherwise you might as well have each US state field a team.
Having a US East and US West isn't going to break the competition, especially when the US is paying much more then the other countries to field a team.
I feel a need to continue to post that this is a subject already much discussed and decided upon, by the governing body and membership of the ETC. There will not ever be a 2nd US Team.
MVBrandt wrote: I feel a need to continue to post that this is a subject already much discussed and decided upon, by the governing body and membership of the ETC. There will not ever be a 2nd US Team.
Mike is right, there will never be a second US team.
Not only will the ETC never allow it, but you will never be able to get the16 of the best 40k gamers in the US to travel to the backwaters of Europe just for a tournament. By the time you fill out 2 teams, the talent pool will be very shallow.
I do not think that it has anything to do with the numbers of teams, but the selection process for the team might need revision. The England team did not win until they overhauled their selection process to get their best players.
MVBrandt wrote: I feel a need to continue to post that this is a subject already much discussed and decided upon, by the governing body and membership of the ETC. There will not ever be a 2nd US Team.
Mike is right, there will never be a second US team.
Not only will the ETC never allow it, but you will never be able to get the16 of the best 40k gamers in the US to travel to the backwaters of Europe just for a tournament. By the time you fill out 2 teams, the talent pool will be very shallow.
I do not think that it has anything to do with the numbers of teams, but the selection process for the team might need revision. The England team did not win until they overhauled their selection process to get their best players.
The problem is any selection process is going to be questionable when taken against the size of the States in general, and when measured against public opinion.. I don't think even MOST people would agree you just listed a "best" Top 8. You just listed 8 players you think are great (which, as an aside, they are). You also ditched off the current Captain, who was around 2nd best points scorer at ETC this year. You can't even remove Greg from the team (and you wouldn't, b/c he's been solid as a teammate even if you don't like his decision-making approach for team building) because he's the Captain, and they can only leave the team by stepping down, and they name their successors. And that's not a knock on Greg or that status quo ... it's just how it is. At the least, Greg is using a process, instead of having the team be entirely comprised of his own personal "Best 8."
The issue with he US is how do you overhaul the selection process to get the 8 best US players? At some point it will come down to who travels the most and does well when the do. SO you can either take the winners of certain events and past players with experience which we do now or you do something like take the players with the highest average finish in the largest gts in the us.
MVBrandt wrote: I feel a need to continue to post that this is a subject already much discussed and decided upon, by the governing body and membership of the ETC. There will not ever be a 2nd US Team.
Mike is right, there will never be a second US team.
Not only will the ETC never allow it, but you will never be able to get the16 of the best 40k gamers in the US to travel to the backwaters of Europe just for a tournament. By the time you fill out 2 teams, the talent pool will be very shallow.
I do not think that it has anything to do with the numbers of teams, but the selection process for the team might need revision. The England team did not win until they overhauled their selection process to get their best players.
I don't foresee two USA teams in the immediate future, I admit. But, what is the process used by England? (Or other countries, to be fair)
But Blackmoor, there's a lot of overlap between your theoretical list of best 40k US players, and the requalifiers (for 2014?) listed below. So presumably the selection process is pretty good / getting closer to the ideal?
yermom wrote: Just to keep everyone updated we have the list of requalifiers based on performance:
Andrew Gonyo
Tony Kopach
Nick Nanavati
Greg sparks
Brad Chester
Also note that Alan has a very good chance of requalifying based on the wild card spot.
That's not to say anyone did notably poorly on the team. Also kudos to Ben for being a great substitution!
Maybe we need some sort of tournament with a similar format? We could give it a similar name, even....
all seriousness, the first consideration is "who is willing and able to go?" I know some great players, who lack inclination to spend big to fly to Europe and play 40k. Serbia isn't just a few trains away from the east coast,much less the west coast.
MVBrandt wrote: The problem is any selection process is going to be questionable when taken against the size of the States in general, and when measured against public opinion.. I don't think even MOST people would agree you just listed a "best" Top 8. You just listed 8 players you think are great (which, as an aside, they are). You also ditched off the current Captain, who was around 2nd best points scorer at ETC this year. You can't even remove Greg from the team (and you wouldn't, b/c he's been solid as a teammate even if you don't like his decision-making approach for team building) because he's the Captain, and they can only leave the team by stepping down, and they name their successors. And that's not a knock on Greg or that status quo ... it's just how it is. At the least, Greg is using a process, instead of having the team be entirely comprised of his own personal "Best 8."
The selection process is always going to be a huge issue in the US because the sizes of most states are the same as whole countries in Europe. Those countries have a lot easier time knowing who their best players are (since they are all at the same tournaments), but also the travel to the ETC is not an issue so they can have them all go.
I said that the selection process needs to be looked at and an open mind for all possibilities to find the best team for the US. There is also a lot to be said about experience with the ETC and their unique format that is also very valuable. No one will ever be happy with what ever it is, but it should be looked at.
And as a side note, I meant no slight of Greg because he is a very good player. You just asked me to name the 8 best in the US.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RiTides wrote: But Blackmoor, there's a lot of overlap between your theoretical list of best 40k US players, and the requalifiers (for 2014?) listed below. So presumably the selection process is pretty good / getting closer to the ideal?
The short answer is that the team is getting better and the reason the team went from 19th place last year to 9th this year (and tied for 6th place in match points).
The reality is with the size of our country, economic barriers, and logistical challenges, you're never going to have an even semi-provably "best" team of Americans, b/c even putting together America's "best" 8 (if you could identify them, which you can't) would create a lot of friction due to having 8 alphas who barely know each other being required to get along.
I will bite!
Andrew Gonyo
Tony Kopach
Nick Nanavati
Brad Chester
Alan Bajramovic
Ben Mohle
Paul Murphy
Reese Robbins
The last 2 are very good players and Paul gives the team a representative from the south (and not that carpet bagger Willingham), and Reese someone west of the Mississippi for a true team America. You can make an argument for a few others, but that is close to the 8 best IMO.
And I do not agree with your thoughts that 8 alphas can't get along. When united by country Americans step up. I will give you the example of the USA basketball team during the olympics.
I like that list! I think that is a perfectly acceptable team. I often find myself wishing Reece was included, then again he is a really busy man.
Because it is a European Championship and the Europeans think that Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland are countries.
Which in fact they are... Think only in the Olympics do you have them all aggregated up. But in soccer, rugby etc.. They all field independent teams.
So what makes a country is the fact that soccer recognizes you as one? Not being recognized by the UN, or your government, but by soccer. Wow! I did not know that.
We need to get ahold of all of the map people and get them in touch with the the rugby union to sort this out.
The best captain would want the best team. Look at the success of Ben Mohile. In terms of more than one team people need to know it was openly discussed and not a foregone conclusion by the ETC. Prestige should be set aside so that the US has the opportunity to do its very best. I think there is room for some improvement.
MVBrandt wrote: I feel a need to continue to post that this is a subject already much discussed and decided upon, by the governing body and membership of the ETC. There will not ever be a 2nd US Team.
it is one of those subjects you just let die Brandt. Anymore I think the dead horse will be beat even more.
MVBrandt wrote: I feel a need to continue to post that this is a subject already much discussed and decided upon, by the governing body and membership of the ETC. There will not ever be a 2nd US Team.
it is one of those subjects you just let die Brandt. Anymore I think the dead horse will be beat even more.
lol do you really think that will happen?
Actually I am always amazed that people think this is a common format in Europe. Its not. With a few exceptions like the Home Nations tournament and the French who actually have their teams compete in a separate tournament and the winning team go to the ETC. We could actually have a " practice tournament" also if the ATC moved away from the ETC date. But than it would conflict with some other majors like Wargames or Adept. Either way the majority of europe teams are not practicing this format but they do have more time in playing it over the years.
Congratulations on taking the trip fellas and doing well.
As I've said in previous ETC threads, the real win is--from what I've seen (and the few ETC members I've talked to)--I'm sure they showed outstanding sportsmanship while playing--which is more important to me (Speaking from a nationalist gamer angle, which is very strange) than how they rolled dice/decided what to kill.
A great point! While I want our team to kick butt and take names, it's at least equally important they conduct themselves as good representatives of our gaming communities and international ambassadors. All of the guys on the team whom I've met and know are great in that department as well.
Congrats on the solid performance, guys, and the improvement on last year. I hope to qualify at some point and make the trip.
As a general comment on all the remarks about how "Scotland is not a country" and "It is easier to travel from one backwater country in Europe to another one" I just want to say that there is a lot to learn by some people posting in this thread.
The selection process in Poland was/is the following:
You take, I think, the top 5 players based on the PL league of 40k, which encompasses all the events done in the country, even store leagues to a degree. The captain/coach does not have to be among those. Then you look down the list to take the best players of the armies you need to fill the rosters for.
We don't play exclusively the ETC format here. In fact, it is quite unpopular and the majority of the average players do not care for it. Some events are organised for the team to have a wider pool of players but most of the time, they play in a closed testing group, figuring out the pairings.
Changes for ETC are coming up, on this matter as well in regards to the general rules, as this year's vote / discussion of 'em wasn't satisfying for most participants. I'd also favor allowing the US two teams, US East and US West, although I agree with others doubting there being a US West team interesting in travelling the entire way to Europe.
In regards to why America is even invited: the ETC is the biggest international Warhammer competitive tournament out there and not allowing America would be stupid. Furthermore, as we have seen, they consist of good players and the more we got of 'em, the better for all of us. On top of that, the entire US team has shown exceptional sportsmanship throughout the entire event - and you can't say that about everyone (looking at that one guy who almost flipped the table and behaved like a pouting child when faced with defeat...). I know 1-2 countries we could gladly swap out for more US teams
Should have brought 8 Tau lists with 3 Riptides if you wanted to succeed ;D
Yep, as a member of Team America (Andrew) I want to say the ETC was a blast, kudos to all the organizers for putting it on.
To the thread topic - The ETC is a totally foreign format/playstyle to what we're used to in America, and it takes some adjusting. That being said, I'm very proud of how we finished this year, we finished in 10th with our match points tied with 7-8-9 and tiebreakers pushed us to 10th (basically, we didn't win matches as big as other teams did). All in all I'd say we did pretty well and are starting to re-develop our team and our strategy after last year, and everything is moving in the right direction. We had a couple very close matches which got pushed into draws by just 1 or 2 points, which left us at 2-1-3 (w/l/d). We'll come back better next year, more practiced, more focused, and ready to represent.
I'd also like to shout out to the team for doing an awesome job playing, but most especially to Greg for being an amazing team captain, Mitch for being literally the best f'ing coach you could ever have, and Ben for coming in on 1 week notice to a list he didn't play, or have a chance to practice one bit and playing in difficult match ups the entire time. Unlike in the US it's not purely 1v1 random matches, and sometimes you get tossed under the bus into a bad match with the real "win" being gaining any points rather than winning the game, creating the right matches for the other players on the team to get the points needed for a team victory. No one should focus too heavily on the individual scores of team members for this reason, among many.
Andrew is right. The ETC is all about matchups, not always the players. You want to win? Then get the matchups right.
IMO the US keeps bringing generalist lists. They do well in the singles, because they have generalist tourney lists and not enough meta lists. Some of he other top countries study the meta and build to defeat the top lists.
Example. A few years back, Darkwyns Leaf blower list was all the rage. Poland playtested the hell against that list and came up with a Tyranid Genestealers list that totally smashed leaf blower. No one saw it coming. The Polish player decimated each leaf blower matchup in the ETC.
IMO the US players just bring their tourney winning lists and play 40k. That worked ok the first year as they finished 3rd, but then Europe didn't take America so lightly and started reading American 40k blogs. They saw what we played and started playtestinig against our lists. Since then the USA has not done as well, but we still bring the same lists we win at tourneys with.
The Polish have it right. 3-5 guys can bring their top lists, but after that more top guys are not any better to the TEAM. Really good players with different armies is a better choice.
Read the European blogs, especially Eastern Europe, and learn what the top players are currently playing over there. Playtest against that. The US team doesn't need to do all the playtestinig by itself. Sub contract that out to inhouse groups who will learn the ins and outs of beating certain archetype lists. Then teach it to the guys who will go over there to play against those archetypes.
DarthDiggler wrote: Andrew is right. The ETC is all about matchups, not always the players. You want to win? Then get the matchups right.
IMO the US keeps bringing generalist lists. They do well in the singles, because they have generalist tourney lists and not enough meta lists. Some of he other top countries study the meta and build to defeat the top lists.
Example. A few years back, Darkwyns Leaf blower list was all the rage. Poland playtested the hell against that list and came up with a Tyranid Genestealers list that totally smashed leaf blower. No one saw it coming. The Polish player decimated each leaf blower matchup in the ETC.
IMO the US players just bring their tourney winning lists and play 40k. That worked ok the first year as they finished 3rd, but then Europe didn't take America so lightly and started reading American 40k blogs. They saw what we played and started playtestinig against our lists. Since then the USA has not done as well, but we still bring the same lists we win at tourneys with.
The Polish have it right. 3-5 guys can bring their top lists, but after that more top guys are not any better to the TEAM. Really good players with different armies is a better choice.
Read the European blogs, especially Eastern Europe, and learn what the top players are currently playing over there. Playtest against that. The US team doesn't need to do all the playtestinig by itself. Sub contract that out to inhouse groups who will learn the ins and outs of beating certain archetype lists. Then teach it to the guys who will go over there to play against those archetypes.
This man needs a medal, he hit the nail on the head. Bringing a few counter armies to change up the team could help a lot. Adding something like Tyranids or Dark Eldar (both are armies that are match-up prone, but not regarded as top tier. Tyranids for example can ROFLstomp Necrons or Daemons a lot more reliably than a top-tier Tau list.)
If you look at the ATC that we just had, a lot of "bad" armies placed very high in individual because they had a bit of room to avoid bad match ups. Basically, that choice can completely change the meta, while Team America just brings stuff for the individual meta.
DarthDiggler wrote: Andrew is right. The ETC is all about matchups, not always the players. You want to win? Then get the matchups right.
IMO the US keeps bringing generalist lists. They do well in the singles, because they have generalist tourney lists and not enough meta lists. Some of he other top countries study the meta and build to defeat the top lists.
Example. A few years back, Darkwyns Leaf blower list was all the rage. Poland playtested the hell against that list and came up with a Tyranid Genestealers list that totally smashed leaf blower. No one saw it coming. The Polish player decimated each leaf blower matchup in the ETC.
IMO the US players just bring their tourney winning lists and play 40k. That worked ok the first year as they finished 3rd, but then Europe didn't take America so lightly and started reading American 40k blogs. They saw what we played and started playtestinig against our lists. Since then the USA has not done as well, but we still bring the same lists we win at tourneys with.
The Polish have it right. 3-5 guys can bring their top lists, but after that more top guys are not any better to the TEAM. Really good players with different armies is a better choice.
Read the European blogs, especially Eastern Europe, and learn what the top players are currently playing over there. Playtest against that. The US team doesn't need to do all the playtestinig by itself. Sub contract that out to inhouse groups who will learn the ins and outs of beating certain archetype lists. Then teach it to the guys who will go over there to play against those archetypes.
Good post and much better written than my I think most Americans lean more towards singles than understanding the team game of the ETC. Although at this point I think Greg and company are pretty good at it. It is just a few of the teams have been at it a lot longer and it makes a difference. Having played in both the ATC and ETC I will say the closest we have to this format is obviously the ATC but even that is more of a shadow to the prep work done prior to the tournament by the teams.
With regards to your comment about Darkwynn's LeafBlower list against Poland, it certainly didn't get smashed and held it's own quite well. The only reason Nick lost or tied the match, from my recollection, was that he was unlucky with two or three morale checks on the last turn and fell back off objectives to swing the match in favor of Poland, otherwise I believe Nick would have won.
More to your other point in that top countries across the pond meta against top lists and look for the matchups in team play.
The nutshell is you place players "down" in alternating order. Ala, we roll off and I "lose" as captain. So, I get to pick a table to put my "first defender" down on. You then can pick any of your players and "attack" him with their list (i.e., if you placed down a jetbike seer star to defend, I might "drop" a bunch of rune priests or a double blob w/ njal or something on it).
Then, the previous attacker has to put out their first defender, and so on and so forth. The defender I believe gets to select which board to be on, the attacker of course can tailor their application to the opponent.
The last two players are "champions," since they are simply the leftover pair.
There's more intricacy to it, to the scoring, etc. (i.e., you get match points in the ETC based on the margin of TOTAL BP, and Match Points are the first score of relevance ... total BP the 2nd). Yada yada.
This man needs a medal, he hit the nail on the head. Bringing a few counter armies to change up the team could help a lot. Adding something like Tyranids or Dark Eldar (both are armies that are match-up prone, but not regarded as top tier. Tyranids for example can ROFLstomp Necrons or Daemons a lot more reliably than a top-tier Tau list.)
So what you end up with is Prey lists or put up lists, so a prey list might be the current screamer star against a shooty army and a put up list a average Tau list. Thats why some of the lists are different to what you normally face, they are designed to counter certain lists why the others are designed to be TAC lists.
With regards to your comment about Darkwynn's LeafBlower list against Poland, it certainly didn't get smashed and held it's own quite well. The only reason Nick lost or tied the match, from my recollection, was that he was unlucky with two or three morale checks on the last turn and fell back off objectives to swing the match in favor of Poland, otherwise I believe Nick would have won.
More to your other point in that top countries across the pond meta against top lists and look for the matchups in team play.
Here is what Martel, the originator of the bug anti leaf blower list said about its performance. I also included his playtesting notes because it gives you an idea of how Poland prepares for the EtC.
ETC results:
1 mission - Orcs, hordes of Orcs - Dawn of War, 5 objectives. Orc Player hide everything in first turn reserves, and i put my 40 genestealers on his table edge. He can't arrive from reserves. He lost. 20:0
2 mission - IG, mech - Pitched Battle, 2 objectives, i go first and win 18:2 ( i was able to hide 1 unit of hive guards)
3 mission - IG, mech - Spearhead, annihilation - i go first and win 15:5, hard battle, he was really incredible. ( i couldn't hide even 1 hive guard unit)
4 mission - IG, mech - Dawn of War, 2 objectives - i go first and win 19:1, because i made an error in writing results, should be 20:0 ( i didn't try hive guards)
5 mission - IG, leafblower - Darkwynn had first turn (and what's more important - i don't have even 1 terrain to hide my Tervigons), so i started in reserves 15:5 ( i could hide my hive guards)
6 mission - SW, 13 thunder cavalry and lord, 2 priests with jaws + 3 times grey knights with rhinos and 3 wolfguards and drop pod, SW started the game and i win 18:2 even after losing Tervigon in first turn (jaws of course)
Before the ETC i tested this army against IG something like 10 times. I alwyas go as second and i win all except:
dawn of war, i go as second - if the game would end in turn 5 or 6 then it would be a draw, if in 7 my win
spearhead, 5 objectives - if the game would end in turn 5-6 I would win, if in the 7 i would lost (made a stupid mistake)
i also fight against same(like 10) BA/SW mechs and those battles were easier.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MarkyMark wrote: So what you end up with is Prey lists or put up lists, so a prey list might be the current screamer star against a shooty army and a put up list a average Tau list. Thats why some of the lists are different to what you normally face, they are designed to counter certain lists why the others are designed to be TAC lists.
That's right. The stated purpose of the ETC is to find the country with the best players in the world right? Well With the amount of list rigging going on in the team event I don't think you can ever accomplish that. To see which country has the best players in the world you need to have a massive singles event with multiple players from each country participating. Nobody can play someone rom their own country and you add up the total scores of each countries players together. That will tell you which country has the best players.
But the ETC format isn't designed to see who is the best 40k player. Just the best grouping in this type of format. That's fine. I like it personally and it helps mix things up from the normal tourney. There are already plenty of large singles events around, though they tend to fill up to fast.
I would hope the ETC community take the singles event more seriously and bring a specific army for that event, but I'm afraid a lot of ayers don't take it as seriously as the team event. I know the logistics of doing that a re prohibitive to most. I understand.
It would be like us saying the best players in 40k are the ones who win the Adepticon Team event instead of the singles event
Not this time is correct. Also, we got blind sided by the ETC first year FAQ that you could checkerboard against Barrage weapons and still get cover saves (this rule was not in the FAQ at the time, it was just assume that is how you played there). I failed a morale check on two squads that cost me three objectives.
The game was tough no doubt about it and I did get caught by surprise but mainly due to the FAQ ruling and the tactic he employed with the genestealers. It was a smart play by their part but I wouldn't call it me getting smashed. He did smash majority of the IG players though. That was my only lost as the first team member to get thrown out every round to chew glass. I don't think the score was that low either. The person who did the best that year against Poland I think was Mike though.
Alkasyn wrote: As a general comment on all the remarks about how "Scotland is not a country"
#1. As far as the USA is concerned Scotland is not a country. Europeans might think of them more as a country because they traditionally operate in sports as one, but to the US they are part of the country of the United Kingdom.
Alkasyn wrote: "It is easier to travel from one backwater country in Europe to another one" I just want to say that there is a lot to learn by some people posting in this thread.
#2. You kind of lumped two of my comments together. They were:
Blackmoor wrote: Not only will the ETC never allow it, but you will never be able to get the16 of the best 40k gamers in the US to travel to the backwaters of Europe just for a tournament.
The ETC was held in Novi Sad Serbia. To give some perspective, this city has the population of Laredo Texas and the closest airport to it is in Belgrade 80km away. This is not a major city, and lacks any reason to go to it other than the ETC. I also hear that they try to keep the ETC near Eastern Europe because travel for them is harder and more expensive than for the Western Europeans, and the reason that the ETC will not be held in England.
Blackmoor wrote: Those countries have a lot easier time knowing who their best players are (since they are all at the same tournaments), but also the travel to the ETC is not an issue so they can have them all go.
The distances from European counties to each other are quite small compared to travel in the US. Even London to Belgrade is only 1049 miles which is shorter than the distance from New York to Miami.
Alkasyn wrote: As a general comment on all the remarks about how "Scotland is not a country"
#1. As far as the USA is concerned Scotland is not a country. Europeans might think of them more as a country because they traditionally operate in sports as one, but to the US they are part of the country of the United Kingdom.
Alkasyn wrote: "It is easier to travel from one backwater country in Europe to another one" I just want to say that there is a lot to learn by some people posting in this thread.
#2. You kind of lumped two of my comments together. They were:
Blackmoor wrote: Not only will the ETC never allow it, but you will never be able to get the16 of the best 40k gamers in the US to travel to the backwaters of Europe just for a tournament.
The ETC was held in Novi Sad Serbia. To give some perspective, this city has the population of Laredo Texas and the closest airport to it is in Belgrade 80km away. This is not a major city, and lacks any reason to go to it other than the ETC. I also hear that they try to keep the ETC near Eastern Europe because travel for them is harder and more expensive than for the Western Europeans, and the reason that the ETC will not be held in England.
Blackmoor wrote: Those countries have a lot easier time knowing who their best players are (since they are all at the same tournaments), but also the travel to the ETC is not an issue so they can have them all go.
The distances from European counties to each other are quite small compared to travel in the US. Even London to Belgrade is only 1049 miles which is shorter than the distance from New York to Miami.
This is a troll post right? I mean outside of the fact that while most Americans dont understand the make up of the United Kingdom and such. Ok I can let that pass. Than you get to the "they" try to keep the ETC in Eastern Europe for expence? Really? What is Germany, Switzerland and is not the one next year in France? While cost may be a part its really about the package put forth by the team sponsoring it. If cheap was what they wanted, Switzerland would have been rules out before the bid even was sent. Finally just trying flying to Moscow from the UK and see how long it takes. In fact even from Switzerland it is still a good flight.
Alkasyn wrote: As a general comment on all the remarks about how "Scotland is not a country"
#1. As far as the USA is concerned Scotland is not a country. Europeans might think of them more as a country because they traditionally operate in sports as one, but to the US they are part of the country of the United Kingdom.
Funny, I know plenty of Americans who are of Scottish descent who are always keen to let me know, however, I have yet to meet anyone from any of the isles that tells me they are of UK descent....not sure if you ever sat down and looked through the ETC thread that Mike Brandt referenced earlier, but if you do you'll see that all of the fantastic statements like this are part of the reason that many in the ETC just broadly rejected the idea that the US have more than one team.
Think you'll find that if rather than trying to impose a US centric view on the Europeans, you sit down and listen to their point of view that you'll find they are more interested in working with us.
sabote wrote: This is a troll post right? I mean outside of the fact that while most Americans dont understand the make up of the United Kingdom and such. Ok I can let that pass.
Both the UN & the EU treat the United Kingdom as a single country. I have no interest in trolling here, but I truly don't understand - why are Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland/England treated independently for the ETC? From this side of the pond, it really does look like they are equivalent to our individual states.
This man needs a medal, he hit the nail on the head. Bringing a few counter armies to change up the team could help a lot. Adding something like Tyranids or Dark Eldar (both are armies that are match-up prone, but not regarded as top tier. Tyranids for example can ROFLstomp Necrons or Daemons a lot more reliably than a top-tier Tau list.)
Huh? Riptides are a huge problem for Necrons.
I was referring more to Daemons then Necrons. But, I've seen Necrons do pretty evil things to Tau before. (to be fair, I've also seen Tau beat up Crons pretty bad.)
sabote wrote: This is a troll post right? I mean outside of the fact that while most Americans dont understand the make up of the United Kingdom and such. Ok I can let that pass.
Both the UN & the EU treat the United Kingdom as a single country. I have no interest in trolling here, but I truly don't understand - why are Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland/England treated independently for the ETC? From this side of the pond, it really does look like they are equivalent to our individual states.
Actually I would argue our states are more independent as MV once pointed out in a much longer discussion but for the history of it all you will just have to read up.
MarkyMark wrote: Wasn’t the ETC based on Fifa rules for countries?, I seem to remember something like that.
Yes. That is why they are treated as 4 different countries in the ETC because of that precedent.
America has no idea what the FIFA is because soccer is not very popular here. That is why the Europeans see them as 4 separate countries because they always compete in the most popular sport in Europe as 4 separate countries, so it is natural to them that they do it in 40k the same way.
Since the US has not had any interest in soccer we only see the UK operating as one country in the Olympics and the UN etc.
That is why there is a large disconnect with the US and European’s view of how the UK is treated.
Alkasyn wrote: As a general comment on all the remarks about how "Scotland is not a country"
#1. As far as the USA is concerned Scotland is not a country. Europeans might think of them more as a country because they traditionally operate in sports as one, but to the US they are part of the country of the United Kingdom.
Alkasyn wrote: "It is easier to travel from one backwater country in Europe to another one" I just want to say that there is a lot to learn by some people posting in this thread.
#2. You kind of lumped two of my comments together. They were:
Blackmoor wrote: Not only will the ETC never allow it, but you will never be able to get the16 of the best 40k gamers in the US to travel to the backwaters of Europe just for a tournament.
The ETC was held in Novi Sad Serbia. To give some perspective, this city has the population of Laredo Texas and the closest airport to it is in Belgrade 80km away. This is not a major city, and lacks any reason to go to it other than the ETC. I also hear that they try to keep the ETC near Eastern Europe because travel for them is harder and more expensive than for the Western Europeans, and the reason that the ETC will not be held in England.
Blackmoor wrote: Those countries have a lot easier time knowing who their best players are (since they are all at the same tournaments), but also the travel to the ETC is not an issue so they can have them all go.
The distances from European counties to each other are quite small compared to travel in the US. Even London to Belgrade is only 1049 miles which is shorter than the distance from New York to Miami.
This is a troll post right? I mean outside of the fact that while most Americans dont understand the make up of the United Kingdom and such. Ok I can let that pass. Than you get to the "they" try to keep the ETC in Eastern Europe for expence? Really? What is Germany, Switzerland and is not the one next year in France? While cost may be a part its really about the package put forth by the team sponsoring it. If cheap was what they wanted, Switzerland would have been rules out before the bid even was sent. Finally just trying flying to Moscow from the UK and see how long it takes. In fact even from Switzerland it is still a good flight.
Wow- I give you plus 1 for troll posting
So not saying travelling is nothing (don't know laws and such) but Moscow to London is about a 3.5 hour flight.
New York (probably the closest US airport or at least one of them) to London is ~7.5 hours....hardly really comparable. The flight time from New York To San Fransisco is nearly 6 hours. So Barring Drive times US travel is significantly more timewise than any other country involved (after all we are the only country crossing a ocean). Now I'm not saying that this means we definitely should have a second team, but when travel time accross our country equates to travel time across Europe, it says something.
Throw in population. as of 2010 all of Europe had 711,064,145 vs US 316,444,000, So a little more than twice as many people. With Russia being the Largest at about half of US population.
Russia 142,905,208
Germany 81,757,600
Spain 47,150,800
Poland 38,192,000
France 65,460,000
United Kingdom 62,041,708
Again this does not me we "deserve" another team...there is no reason we need be invited at all. Just that perhaps it is more difficult for the US to find the 8 best players in a a land area of 9,827,000 Sq KM when all of Europe is 10,180,000 (not including mostly asian Russia as it is not densly populated, and I doubt their players are really coming from there.). Essentially we are attempting to find 8 players from an area the Size of Europe and with half the population of all of Europe. Where each of the other 27 teams is drawing from a much smaller portion.
Yep just checked, in that case tough, they follow the Fifa rules and Fifa allow a scottish, english and welsh team, I am sure if the captains were petitioned then they may do a vote but discussing this on here wont effect much.
I can see the issue in that if the US have more then one team why cant other nations.
Plus isnt this thread about the team that has just competed in the ETC lets leave it at that rather then get into anything else.
MarkyMark wrote: Wasn’t the ETC based on Fifa rules for countries?, I seem to remember something like that.
Yes. That is why they are treated as 4 different countries in the ETC because of that precedent.
America has no idea what the FIFA is because soccer is not very popular here. That is why the Europeans see them as 4 separate countries because they always compete in the most popular sport in Europe as 4 separate countries, so it is natural to them that they do it in 40k the same way.
Since the US has not had any interest in soccer we only see the UK operating as one country in the Olympics and the UN etc.
That is why there is a large disconnect with the US and European’s view of how the UK is treated.
As an American can I say please stop lumping us into your generalizations. I happen to know what FIFA is and happen to recognize Scotland, Ireland and such as seperate from England. Even though I am not a soccer (football) fan!
What I would love to see is the ETC move into a more world wide venue much like the olympics where all countries involved have a chance to host etc. That being said I see the merits of having 2 teams from the US but also see the negatives. With the US being so large it makes sence to seperate it regionally however as guests of our European hosts I think we should be perfectly happy with 1 team and the simple fact we get to hang out with such grreat gamers to begin with.
Given that the US took 3 of the top 5 spots in the Singles tournament, and had the winner two years running now, I can't imagine the team is suffering from a lack of player talent.
Alkasyn wrote: As a general comment on all the remarks about how "Scotland is not a country"
#1. As far as the USA is concerned Scotland is not a country. Europeans might think of them more as a country because they traditionally operate in sports as one, but to the US they are part of the country of the United Kingdom.
Alkasyn wrote: "It is easier to travel from one backwater country in Europe to another one" I just want to say that there is a lot to learn by some people posting in this thread.
#2. You kind of lumped two of my comments together. They were:
Blackmoor wrote: Not only will the ETC never allow it, but you will never be able to get the16 of the best 40k gamers in the US to travel to the backwaters of Europe just for a tournament.
The ETC was held in Novi Sad Serbia. To give some perspective, this city has the population of Laredo Texas and the closest airport to it is in Belgrade 80km away. This is not a major city, and lacks any reason to go to it other than the ETC. I also hear that they try to keep the ETC near Eastern Europe because travel for them is harder and more expensive than for the Western Europeans, and the reason that the ETC will not be held in England.
Blackmoor wrote: Those countries have a lot easier time knowing who their best players are (since they are all at the same tournaments), but also the travel to the ETC is not an issue so they can have them all go.
The distances from European counties to each other are quite small compared to travel in the US. Even London to Belgrade is only 1049 miles which is shorter than the distance from New York to Miami.
This is a troll post right? I mean outside of the fact that while most Americans dont understand the make up of the United Kingdom and such. Ok I can let that pass. Than you get to the "they" try to keep the ETC in Eastern Europe for expence? Really? What is Germany, Switzerland and is not the one next year in France? While cost may be a part its really about the package put forth by the team sponsoring it. If cheap was what they wanted, Switzerland would have been rules out before the bid even was sent. Finally just trying flying to Moscow from the UK and see how long it takes. In fact even from Switzerland it is still a good flight.
Wow- I give you plus 1 for troll posting
So not saying travelling is nothing (don't know laws and such) but Moscow to London is about a 3.5 hour flight.
New York (probably the closest US airport or at least one of them) to London is ~7.5 hours....hardly really comparable. The flight time from New York To San Fransisco is nearly 6 hours. So Barring Drive times US travel is significantly more timewise than any other country involved (after all we are the only country crossing a ocean). Now I'm not saying that this means we definitely should have a second team, but when travel time across our country equates to travel time across Europe, it says something.
Throw in population. as of 2010 all of Europe had 711,064,145 vs US 316,444,000, So a little more than twice as many people. With Russia being the Largest at about half of US population.
Russia 142,905,208
Germany 81,757,600
Spain 47,150,800
Poland 38,192,000
France 65,460,000
United Kingdom 62,041,708
Again this does not me we "deserve" another team...there is no reason we need be invited at all. Just that perhaps it is more difficult for the US to find the 8 best players in a a land area of 9,827,000 Sq KM when all of Europe is 10,180,000 (not including mostly asian Russia as it is not densly populated, and I doubt their players are really coming from there.). Essentially we are attempting to find 8 players from an area the Size of Europe and with half the population of all of Europe. Where each of the other 27 teams is drawing from a much smaller portion.
I never argued population. The discussion is how the UK is viewed. Do I think the US should have two teams sure. Do I understand the make up of the UK , yes. Do I agree with it, no. But at least I understand the reasoning. I send my life traveling SF to Chicago to NY to just about anywhere in Europe. So I get the travel more than you can imagine. That being said, once you go over 3 hours so what its still a long flight. The first post made it sound like everything is a 30 min flight for the majority of teams.
Really?, check the thread on the warhammer forum, not that much resistance from the UK compared to the other replies. Plus the fact your only valid point as to why USA should have more then one team is that the UK do which is completely ignoring the fact that the Fifa system was used and thats how they classify it.
MarkyMark wrote: Wasn’t the ETC based on Fifa rules for countries?, I seem to remember something like that.
Yes. That is why they are treated as 4 different countries in the ETC because of that precedent.
America has no idea what the FIFA is because soccer is not very popular here. That is why the Europeans see them as 4 separate countries because they always compete in the most popular sport in Europe as 4 separate countries, so it is natural to them that they do it in 40k the same way.
Since the US has not had any interest in soccer we only see the UK operating as one country in the Olympics and the UN etc.
That is why there is a large disconnect with the US and European’s view of how the UK is treated.
As an American can I say please stop lumping us into your generalizations. I happen to know what FIFA is and happen to recognize Scotland, Ireland and such as seperate from England. Even though I am not a soccer (football) fan!
I was explaining why there is a disconnect with the US and European views of Scotland as a country. It is a generalization so some people will not be included.
Thank you for going on record that you know what FIFA is because that was very helpful. I would like to congratulate you in your recognition of Ireland as separate country from England.
Alkasyn wrote: As a general comment on all the remarks about how "Scotland is not a country"
#1. As far as the USA is concerned Scotland is not a country. Europeans might think of them more as a country because they traditionally operate in sports as one, but to the US they are part of the country of the United Kingdom.
Alkasyn wrote: "It is easier to travel from one backwater country in Europe to another one" I just want to say that there is a lot to learn by some people posting in this thread.
#2. You kind of lumped two of my comments together. They were:
Blackmoor wrote: Not only will the ETC never allow it, but you will never be able to get the16 of the best 40k gamers in the US to travel to the backwaters of Europe just for a tournament.
The ETC was held in Novi Sad Serbia. To give some perspective, this city has the population of Laredo Texas and the closest airport to it is in Belgrade 80km away. This is not a major city, and lacks any reason to go to it other than the ETC. I also hear that they try to keep the ETC near Eastern Europe because travel for them is harder and more expensive than for the Western Europeans, and the reason that the ETC will not be held in England.
Blackmoor wrote: Those countries have a lot easier time knowing who their best players are (since they are all at the same tournaments), but also the travel to the ETC is not an issue so they can have them all go.
The distances from European counties to each other are quite small compared to travel in the US. Even London to Belgrade is only 1049 miles which is shorter than the distance from New York to Miami.
This is a troll post right? I mean outside of the fact that while most Americans dont understand the make up of the United Kingdom and such. Ok I can let that pass. Than you get to the "they" try to keep the ETC in Eastern Europe for expence? Really? What is Germany, Switzerland and is not the one next year in France? While cost may be a part its really about the package put forth by the team sponsoring it. If cheap was what they wanted, Switzerland would have been rules out before the bid even was sent. Finally just trying flying to Moscow from the UK and see how long it takes. In fact even from Switzerland it is still a good flight.
Wow- I give you plus 1 for troll posting
So not saying travelling is nothing (don't know laws and such) but Moscow to London is about a 3.5 hour flight.
New York (probably the closest US airport or at least one of them) to London is ~7.5 hours....hardly really comparable. The flight time from New York To San Fransisco is nearly 6 hours. So Barring Drive times US travel is significantly more timewise than any other country involved (after all we are the only country crossing a ocean). Now I'm not saying that this means we definitely should have a second team, but when travel time across our country equates to travel time across Europe, it says something.
Throw in population. as of 2010 all of Europe had 711,064,145 vs US 316,444,000, So a little more than twice as many people. With Russia being the Largest at about half of US population.
Russia 142,905,208
Germany 81,757,600
Spain 47,150,800
Poland 38,192,000
France 65,460,000
United Kingdom 62,041,708
Again this does not me we "deserve" another team...there is no reason we need be invited at all. Just that perhaps it is more difficult for the US to find the 8 best players in a a land area of 9,827,000 Sq KM when all of Europe is 10,180,000 (not including mostly asian Russia as it is not densly populated, and I doubt their players are really coming from there.). Essentially we are attempting to find 8 players from an area the Size of Europe and with half the population of all of Europe. Where each of the other 27 teams is drawing from a much smaller portion.
I never argued population. The discussion is how the UK is viewed. Do I think the US should have two teams sure. Do I understand the make up of the UK , yes. Do I agree with it, no. But at least I understand the reasoning. I send my life traveling SF to Chicago to NY to just about anywhere in Europe. So I get the travel more than you can imagine. That being said, once you go over 3 hours so what its still a long flight. The first post made it sound like everything is a 30 min flight for the majority of teams.
See to me a 3 hour flight it quite a bit different from a 7 or 8 hour flight. I think the general point about travel was within countries, that essentially traveling from country to country was no different for Players in the US traveling from state to state for event (except for laws about crossing borders where they exist). Futher the point within Countries was that Top players can more easily be at every event in say England/Germany/Poland than they can in the US since driving to those events is not really much different than US players driving within state (obviously state dependent).
That said I see no reason why we need 2 teams, if we had top players clamoring to go and feeling left out, I could see it but the expense of traveling etc, keep many away. Also I could see the argument more if we were routinely dominating the competition, then we would have an argument about "hey we have so many good players that our second team would do well." This is not the case. I think we need a better selection method (perhaps average finish at a series of large events + army played at those events, as it does not help us to have 8 really good Tau players for example.), and to have the selections made early so guys can prepare.
ETC follows the UEFA ruling for team selection, that's why the US get one team and Great Britan gets 4 teams.
This is a debatable point of view and I, personally, consider this to be outdated. The UEFA focuses on football and, frankly, the US doesn't give a damn about football at all (AE: soccer). Warhammer is a totally different case - it's extremely popular in the US. That's why I think that the entire UEFA thing needs to be thought over again.
...but alas, that is my very own opinion. It's shared by some, and opposed by others, with the latter currently being the majority.
It's a good thing, though, that the US team did so good, especially in regards to their very sportsmanlike behavior. Gives the pro "more teams for US" side a bit more weight.
Oh, and: Scotland is NOT a country. Wales is NOT a country. Drop that argument please.
The simple fact we are invited and are able to partake in this event should be enough. We have a team which are great players and have proven themselves time and time again. If the system was based off of an already established system then so be it. If your butt hurt about then do something about it and get on the team. There are plenty of opportunities to do so.
Dozer Blades wrote: A lot of the resistance within the ETC towards the US having more than one team comes from the UK - it must be a touchy subject for them.
I dont think its really a resistance. However they are a bit touchy with Americans not understanding why they are different. Does not matter if you agree with it or not I think it has more to do with understanding the history of how they got to where they are at currently. BTW they are just as guilty as many Americans in lumping us all together as one and not recognizing the difference between areas of the country much less how many states can be very different.
v wrote: ETC follows the UEFA ruling for team selection, that's why the US get one team and Great Britan gets 4 teams.
This is a debatable point of view and I, personally, consider this to be outdated. The UEFA focuses on football and, frankly, the US doesn't give a damn about football at all (AE: soccer). Warhammer is a totally different case - it's extremely popular in the US. That's why I think that the entire UEFA thing needs to be thought over again.
...but alas, that is my very own opinion. It's shared by some, and opposed by others, with the latter currently being the majority.
It's a good thing, though, that the US team did so good, especially in regards to their very sportsmanlike behavior. Gives the pro "more teams for US" side a bit more weight.
Oh, and: Scotland is NOT a country. Wales is NOT a country. Drop that argument please.
Germany is not a country either mate, just a small part of a federal Europe.
Alright I admit it, I have forayed into trolling now. I will cease.
On a serious note the Australians enter a team as do Singapore, Canada and the Kiwis. This shows that it is a worldwide event as opposed to Europe plus America. I think every American state should be able to enter if they want. I'm proud of my wee jock team and imagine that americans would be equally proud of their own state teams.
I am slightly alarmed to learn from Sigvatr that my country does not exist. I think I'm about to suffer an identity crisis....
Scotland isn't an individual country like France or Germany, they are officially part of the United Kingdom. Ireland is an exception and is its own country (as a whole, North and South Ireland aren't individual countries either).
#dealwithit
Bavaria isn't a singular country either, it's a part of Germany.
Sigvatr wrote: Scotland isn't an individual country like France or Germany, they are officially part of the United Kingdom. Ireland is an exception and is its own country (as a whole, North and South Ireland aren't individual countries either).
#dealwithit
Bavaria isn't a singular country either, it's a part of Germany.
When we get independence next year, we're gonna invade Germany. Then we'll see whose a real country pal.
edit: I promised to cease but failed. I will try harder this time.
1a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory
Nation
noun
a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory:
I think Scotland, Wales, and NI meet those definitions but it depends on your own understanding of the words country and nation. I feel Scottish and I suppose there are probably people who feel Bavarian as opposed to German or Texan as opposed to American too...
Regardless I think individual American states should be able to enter ETC (WTC?)
Rule Number Two is Stay On Topic. If you guys want to keep discussing this (for whatever reason) please start a thread in the Off Topic subforum. Thanks.
(sorry for OT, just clarifying couple of things regarding the ETC)
I think the ETC choosing FIFA rules for country criteria was originally for combination of historic and practical reasons. As the tournament was initially very euro-centric (hence the name and also strong identifying with soccer nationalities) and UK was the birthplace of both WHFB and 40k and had/has very large player base, it was thought to be a decent idea to make room for the Scots, Welsh and NI team.
In many minds at least in Europe, the tournament has evolved to an unofficial whfb/40k world (team) championships so in that sense it has a certain perceived prestige. And that prestige is probably the biggest reason for not allowing multiple teams per country as it would devalue the tournament to just a normal team tournament. People can lament the FIFA country criteria until the world ends, but it's very likely those will stay place for the ETC for foreseeable future as changing them would require the participant teams voting against it.
Well done to the Irish lads in the 40k team comp.
Considering country size and non regular tournament events held here thats an impressive showing.
Had a look at some of their lists and a few nasty ones alright.
I heard there was a nasty bout of food poisoning going on day 2 as well for a lot of people? Ugggh.
Ratius wrote: Well done to the Irish lads in the 40k team comp.
Considering country size and non regular tournament events held here thats an impressive showing.
Had a look at some of their lists and a few nasty ones alright.
I heard there was a nasty bout of food poisoning going on day 2 as well for a lot of people? Ugggh.
I think that was the entire week, needless to say, Novi Sad experienced a shortage of toilet paper.
Sigvatr wrote: ETC follows the UEFA ruling for team selection, that's why the US get one team and Great Britan gets 4 teams.
This is a debatable point of view and I, personally, consider this to be outdated. The UEFA focuses on football and, frankly, the US doesn't give a damn about football at all (AE: soccer). Warhammer is a totally different case - it's extremely popular in the US. That's why I think that the entire UEFA thing needs to be thought over again.
...but alas, that is my very own opinion. It's shared by some, and opposed by others, with the latter currently being the majority.
It's a good thing, though, that the US team did so good, especially in regards to their very sportsmanlike behavior. Gives the pro "more teams for US" side a bit more weight.
Oh, and: Scotland is NOT a country. Wales is NOT a country. Drop that argument please.
Great Britain is not a country either. I think the answer you're looking for is the United Kingdom.
I think that was the entire week, needless to say, Novi Sad experienced a shortage of toilet paper.
Well played Europe.....Well played
Trolling or? Not sure at this stage.
A few comments in this whole thread have been covertly / pseudo anti-European, specifically from certain parties.
Can you give it a rest?
Its a voluntary competition, held in Europe, which many people attend at their own expense, to play and have fun at and compete against the best that there is and might be.
Dont agree/feel worthy/feel aggrieved?
Dont attend
EDIT: Sure: critique the format/rules/scoring but having a cheap pop at countries or their hosting - attendance is frankily...pathetic.
Other than the usual trolls (who are in almost any Dakka tourney thread), I think most of the people here are simply big fans of what the Europeans are doing with the ETC, and wish there were more opportunities to participate. That said, can't help but reiterate there's 0 opportunity for additional US teams ... it's been decided on already AFAIK.
There was a "Europe backwater" comment at some point but I apologise for my post anyway (had a few drinks).
Its a great thread and some very nice ideas and comments.
No offense intended from me and I echo what MVB said about a good tournament setup and execution from everyone especially those that travelled from afar (barring the food poisoning! ).
There was a "Europe backwater" comment at some point but I apologise for my post anyway (had a few drinks).
Its a great thread and some very nice ideas and comments.
No offense intended from me and I echo what MVB said about a good tournament setup and execution from everyone especially those that travelled from afar (barring the food poisoning! ).
I said that the ETC is held in a backwater European city.
This is not a slight on Europe or the city, it is a comment saying that the cities that hold the ETC are not major travel destinations. Last year it was Gorzow Poland and this year it was held in Novi Sad Serbia.
"Backwater" was just a short way to say that they are both far away from major airports and have additional challenges to travel to and stay at.
Urban Dictionary Definition of Backwater: "Somewhere out of the way; in the middle of nowhere; desolate. See boondocks."
As a matter of fact, I may give it a shot at one of the east coast events myself next year. Any suggestions....
jy2 i suggest hitting up the NOVA in august basically the best GT here on the east coast imho plus DC is an awsome place to check out. However if your in the NY area (shameless plug alert
!) in the fall check out the BFS GT. close to NYC and a beautiful time of year in the hudson valley.
jy2 wrote: As a matter of fact, I may give it a shot at one of the east coast events myself next year. Any suggestions....
If you were going to go to only one event for 40k I would go to Adepticon.
If you are going to make a vacation out of it besides just going to the tournament I would go to the Nova Open and take in a lot of DC.That is why I always come out on a Tuesday so that I have a couple of days to see the sites.
Kevin suggested Adepticon as well. Definitely deserves top consideration.
I'd love to go to NOVA but August is going to be a busy month. Now I've got 2 titles to defend in August - the Golden Throne GT and the ATC. Not sure I can take that much time off from work....or with the missus.
As a matter of fact, I may give it a shot at one of the east coast events myself next year. Any suggestions....
Personally I suggest the NOVA open for an East Coast event...you can make a vacation out of it with DC within a 5 min. drive from the event...my two cents...
As a matter of fact, I may give it a shot at one of the east coast events myself next year. Any suggestions....
jy2 i suggest hitting up the NOVA in august basically the best GT here on the east coast imho plus DC is an awsome place to check out. However if your in the NY area (shameless plug alert
!) in the fall check out the BFS GT. close to NYC and a beautiful time of year in the hudson valley.
Ok....3 votes for Nova.
I'd love to take a vaca in New York. It's been ages since I've last been there, and BFS sounds like a pretty fun and competitive event as well.
Tony and I are currently 2 and 2 I'm hoping we can settle the score in the finals of nova this year. This should be the toughest nova yet though so who knows
yermom wrote: Tony and I are currently 2 and 2 I'm hoping we can settle the score in the finals of nova this year. This should be the toughest nova yet though so who knows
. Okay, maybe there isn't one, I just can't help but imagine you guys wearing stars and stripes T-shirts 
