Recently, I went to the ATC in Tennessee. The ATC is a 2K Team tournament consisting of 5-man teams, playing 6-games each over the course of 2 days. And this year, there were 34 teams participating in the ATC....that's 170 players! The rules for the ATC is quite simple. In a nutshell, no one can bring the same Primary armies or the same Allied armies. Thus, you cannot take Necrons allied with Eldar and Necrons allied with Tau. You also can't take Eldar allied with Necrons nor can you take Tau allied with Necrons.
ATC scenarios use all 3 missions at the same time - Purge the Alien, Emperor's Will and Crusade (always with 5 objectives). What changes is the deploment type and whether Fast Attack or Heavy Support choices are scoring/worth extra VP's. We also played with Secondary objectives - First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker. Each of the 3 Primary objectives are worth 8-pts each and each of the Secondaries worth 2-pts each, for a total of 30-pts per game. In the case of a tie (i.e. either both parties get Warlord or neither one does), then each person gets half points. Overall, the sum of both person's scores always add up to 30-pts.
Now a little background on our team. This year, our team - Team Fluffy Bunnies - consisted of 2 returning veterans - Mike and Brandon - along with 3 new players - Kevin (aka Janthkin), Bill (aka Centurion99) and Jim (that' me!, aka jy2). Mike and Brandon were actually the runner-ups to last year's 2-time defending champions, Wrecking BLOS. However, this year, they lost 3 of their teammates, one of whom was Greg Sparks (who opted to be the Captain of Team USA this year at the ETC). Now how did we all meet? The common bond that united the 4 of them (I was the odd-man out) was Adepticon. They all knew each other from Adepticon. It was there where they started talking and decided to form a team for the ATC. They were still short 1 player, however. That's when Kevin, a good friend of mine, recommended me to the team. From there, it became history.
I will talk more about the ATC team concept later, but first, let me introduce the armies.
I was debating over bringing pure necrons - my Wraithwing Tesla-crons - or my Draicronic Measures NecroKnights. In the end, I decided to bring my NecroKnights primarily because 1) I wanted to see if I could get my grey knights to work in 6th Ed. competitive play, 2) I wanted to try something new (I've only ever played my NecroKnights once before) and 3) they were much easier to transport than my 18 wraiths necron army.
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
Annihilation Barge
2000 Hive Fleet Janthkin
This is basically a slightly modified variant of Kevin's normal tyranid army. Kevin has been on a roll lately, winning one of our local RTT's as well as AnimeCon GT (though it was with his Daemons+CSM army) coming into this tournament.
Bill was our Team Captain. He was also a 2-time winner of Adepticon and won a 5th Ed. major GT (can't remember which was it) with his daemons back before the White Dwarf flamer/screamer updates. So yeah, he is a very, very good player. For the tournament, he brought a very brutal, primarily Slaanesh FMC-spam daemon list.
Daemon Prince - 3+, Mark of Slaanesh, Wings, Psyker Lvl 3, 1x Exalted Reward, 1x Greater Reward
Daemon Prince - 3+, Mark of Slaanesh, Wings, Psyker Lvl 3, 2x Greater Rewards
Daemon Prince - 3+, Mark of Slaanesh, Wings, Psyker Lvl 3, 2x Greater Rewards
2000 Mike's Space Wolves
Mike is a veteran tournament 40K player who has been playing for about a decade now. He brought a foot-based, missile-spam Space Wolves. And in case you weren't counting, that 30 S8 shots!!!
Logan Grimnar
Rune Priest - Jaws, Living Lightning
10x Wolf Guards - 2x w/Terminator Armour + Chainfist + Cyclone Missile Launchers
10x Wolf Guards - 1x w/Terminator Armour + Chainfist + Cyclone Missile Launcher, 1x w/Terminator Armour, Power Axe, Meltabombs + Cyclone Missile Launcher, 6x Combi-plasmas, 2x Combi-meltas, Drop Pod
5x Wolf Guards - 1x w/Terminator Armour, Power Axe + Cyclone Missile Launcher
5x Wolf Guards - 1x w/Terminator Armour, Power Axe + Cyclone Missile Launcher
10x Grey Hunters - 1x Flamer, 1x Meltagun, Wolf Standard
5x Grey Hunters - 1x Flamer
6x Long Fangs - 5x Multi-meltas, Drop Pod
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers
2000 Brandon's Eldar + Tau
Brandon is the "Youngblood" in the group. You can tell by his army as he brought the 2 newest armies, the dreaded Eldau!
Primary:
Tau Commander - All the bells and whistles, You name it, he's got it....except for any guns
Riptide - Ion Accelerator, SMS, Early Warning Override
Riptide - Ion Accelerator, SMS, Early Warning Override
6x Fire Warriors - Devilfish w/SMS 6x Fire Warriors - Devilfish w/SMS 6x Fire Warriors
5x Piranhas - Burst Cannons, 1x w/Sensor Spines
3x Broadsides - All w/HYMP + Early Warning Override, 4x Missile Drones
Skyray - Blacksun Filter
What does surprise me about this event is that it clashes with and isn't in line with the ETC. fair enough it's an independent event but the benefits for team merica could be huge.
djn wrote: The clue is in his sig as to how they did
Looking forward to these reports.
What does surprise me about this event is that it clashes with and isn't in line with the ETC. fair enough it's an independent event but the benefits for team merica could be huge.
I noticed after I had already posted, just to lazy to edit my comment.
However, what you could do is to bring Eldar allied with Tau and Tau allied with Eldar.
Actually, this was specifically disallowed.
Three primary army composition rules:
1) You may not repeat primary detachments;
2) You may not repeat allied detachments; and
3) You may not repeat any particular combination of detachments.
Rainbow daemons. I especially love the maulerfiend conversion, using the WHFB Slaughterbrute kit from the Warriors of Chaos line. I myself are running 2 of these as maulerfiends in my CSM army.
And for some bonus points, his army actually matches his pants!
Marine Armies:
Spoiler:
An Adeptus Arbites Grey Knight conversion army. Very cool.
Blood Angels MSU mech-spam.
I believe Dark Angels with the Banner of Devastation, perhaps?
Fortunately, they weren't GK stormravens, but definitely an army I wanted no part of.
Wow! That's a lot of frigging drop pods.
Pure grey knights.
Marines with Tau. Actually, it looks like Tau with Marines.
Triple-raven Grey Knights! Another list I wouldn't want to play against. Those mindstrikes will f*ck up my paladins real quick!
Salamanders with a little of everything - dreads, drop pods and flyers.
Last but not least, more Grey Knights!
Imperial Guards:
Spoiler:
One of many IG armies. Melta/plasma-vets mechguard!
IG with some allied Daemons.
Paul Murphy's beautiful IG + Space Wolves army. Good news guys....you're going to get a better look at his beautiful army because he is one of my opponents.
Another superb IG army....with CSM allies.
Wow. These IG display boards are amazing. And so are the armies.
And finally, we have the....
Xenos Armies:
Spoiler:
Necron flyer-spam was fairly common at the ATC.
Here's an interesting combo - Necrons + Tau.
Necrons + Chaos....another winning combo.
Here's a really cool necron flyer conversion....probably done before the actual necron flyers came out.
One of the few tyranid armies around....nidzilla with 7 monstrous creatures!
The antithesis of my army...Necrons + Draigowing! Mine was Draigowing + Necrons. I could have actually gone up against this army in a mirror match. Instead, Janthkin went up against it.
Tim Gorham's tournament winning Wraithwing Tesla-crons. He won Best Necrons with it at the ATC. It is basically the same list as my own Wraithwing Tesla-crons which I was originally planning to bring.
However, what you could do is to bring Eldar allied with Tau and Tau allied with Eldar.
Actually, this was specifically disallowed.
Three primary army composition rules:
1) You may not repeat primary detachments;
2) You may not repeat allied detachments; and
3) You may not repeat any particular combination of detachments.
Well, then....some people didn't read the rules.
But personally, I wouldn't care if I faced such an army. Just give me someone to beat silly.
In the "Pulse-bomb Tau", any idea what the bike looking guys were used as?
From zooming in, it looks like they might be counts as Eldar Jet bikes, with an counts as Eldar HQ hiding in that ruin. Last I checked Ethereals can't shoot lightning from their fingertips.
Well I think I answered my own question. Can't wait to read the reports! Beautiful armies!
4TheG8erGood wrote: In the "Pulse-bomb Tau", any idea what the bike looking guys were used as?
From zooming in, it looks like they might be counts as Eldar Jet bikes, with an counts as Eldar HQ hiding in that ruin. Last I checked Ethereals can't shoot lightning from their fingertips.
Well I think I answered my own question. Can't wait to read the reports! Beautiful armies!
They were Eldar jetbikes. The Farseer was a drone thing. If you scroll to the bottom here, I snapped some close up pictures of them.
4TheG8erGood wrote: In the "Pulse-bomb Tau", any idea what the bike looking guys were used as?
From zooming in, it looks like they might be counts as Eldar Jet bikes, with an counts as Eldar HQ hiding in that ruin. Last I checked Ethereals can't shoot lightning from their fingertips.
Well I think I answered my own question. Can't wait to read the reports! Beautiful armies!
They were Eldar jetbikes. The Farseer was a drone thing. If you scroll to the bottom here, I snapped some close up pictures of them.
You can see the edge of my Army in the photo of the 4 Storm Ravens. So close to getting my puppy conversions in a JY2 thread! Almost famous.
That 4 Raven build may be the subject of my next rambling on FLG, we designed it as our anti-Daemon Army, but when our team fell apart we ended up throwing it against nearly everything, and it did shockingly well. It actually beat Eric Hoager from QC, which I didn't see coming at all. I played Kurt Clauss from QC, which was a super fun game (that I may bat rep, just because we both pulled some crazy dirty tricks on each other). I played Thomas from BOLS, which I won't batrep because he beat me pretty badly, haha. Don't want to shame myself. Besides, a batrep of 7 turns of our Daemon Princes flying in circles around each other is pretty lame...
4TheG8erGood wrote: In the "Pulse-bomb Tau", any idea what the bike looking guys were used as?
From zooming in, it looks like they might be counts as Eldar Jet bikes, with an counts as Eldar HQ hiding in that ruin. Last I checked Ethereals can't shoot lightning from their fingertips.
Well I think I answered my own question. Can't wait to read the reports! Beautiful armies!
They were Eldar jetbikes. The Farseer was a drone thing. If you scroll to the bottom here, I snapped some close up pictures of them.
that's my pink chaos army. 2 squads of NM and 2 CSM, 3 havoc squads and 2 turkeys. It was cool to meet all you guys. It was a really fun event and I can't wait to do it again next year. Congrats on the win.
Talore wrote: I can't wait to see more of Paul Murphy's army! If I had that level of talent in building miniatures, I'd almost be tempted to play with IG flyers!
Go to GMMstudios.com he painted it and ha close up shots on his blog.
Justin from team Quality Control here. It is great to see all of these pics from the ATC. It was awesome to meet you in person and play the Fluffy Bunnies for all the marbles!
I'll be on the lookout for your ATC bat reps. Thanks for the photographic chronicle of a really fun event!
This is how the ATC works....in slightly more detail than my intro. It is a team versus team tournament. Sure, we play individual games, but in the end you add up all the scores of the indiviual players to get the Team score.
The ATC uses all 3 Primary mission objectives at the same time: Victory Points, Emperor's Will and 5 Crusade objectives. Each Primary objective is worth 8-pts, or 4-pts in the case of a draw. The ATC also uses 3 Secondary objectives: First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker. Each Secondary objective is worth 2-pts each, or 1-pt in the case of a draw (i.e. either both parties get Warlord or neither does, etc.). The sum of both player's scores = 30-pts. Thus, if the team is perfect, then it can get a maximum of 150-pts each round.
There are variations. Two of the matches includes the following: Night-fight + Mysterious Objectives. Two of the matches including scoring Fast Attacks who are also worth VP's if killed and two of the matches including scoring Heavy Supports, also worth VP's if killed. Deployment alternate between Dawn of War and Vanguard Strike. They did not include Hammer & Anvil deployment due to logistics reasons.
The Team Captain rolls off to see who goes first. Whoever wins can choose whether to go 1st or 2nd. The team that goes 1st puts out one of their armies first. The opposing team can then decide which of their armies to matchup with the 1st army. Then for the 2nd match, the team that goes 2nd has to put out 1 of their armies and the 1st team then decides which of their armies to put up against that army. Both teams then continue alternating matchups until everyone has an opponent. BTW, whoever puts out their armies gets to choose the terrain. To summarize it goes like this:
1: Team A offers a defender, Team B chooses an attacker, Team A picks a table.
2: Team B offers a defender, Team A chooses an attacker, Team B picks a table.
3: Team A offers a defender, Team B chooses an attacker, Team A picks a table.
4: Team B offers a defender, Team A chooses an attacker, Team B picks a table.
5: Remaining players play on the remaining table.
The Team Strategy:
We have 3 main types of armies in team format. The 1st is the Attacker. This is the type of army that will get you the Battle Points you need. It usually isn't very balanced, but if you put it up against the right matchup, you can potentially table your opponent. An example of an Attacker army is FMC daemons. With the right matchups, more often than not, you can table your opponents. The Attacker is more matchup dependent than the other armies and will be the army you use to net you the most Battle Points. This is also not the army you want to offer up to your opponent. Rather, you want to take advantage of army matchups with this type of list.
We then have the Defender army. The Defender army is the one that you offer up for the opponent to matchup against. Defender armies tend to be more durable and able to take a hit. While you can potentially play them offensively as well, most Defender armies are built more to win slightly than to win big. Usually, you are not looking to table your opponent with this type of army, but just to win, even if slightly. I actually view my Draigowing as more of a Defender army, though I can also use it as an Attacker army.
Finally, you have your "Sacrificial" army. This is usually the very 1st army you put up. The main strategy for this army is to survive. Such armies will usually take the worst of the matchups as it is usually offered up as the very 1st army for your opponent to matchup against. The key to the Sacrificial army is survivability. You need a very durable army to survive a wide range of threats. Examples of a sacrificial army include tervigon-spam tyranids, double-blob squad IG or Typhus-zombie CSM list. I also consider my Draigowing to be a sacrificial army as well. I can easily take almost any type of offense out there and not only survive, but I think I can still win as well.
In any case, it's going to be all about the matchups. If you're running tyranids and your opponents have a venom-spam Dark Eldar army in their team, then you certainly don't want to offer up your bugs as a Defender army. The chances are great that your opponents will send their DE player against your nids. Likewise, if your opponent puts up Tau with lots of skyfire/interceptor, you really don't want to send your Necron Air-force up against them. In the team format, you can avoid these types of matchups.
Finally, it may be important regarding picking the terrain. That is definitely something you want to take into consideration. You don't really want to use your tyranids as an Attacker army against Tau, only to have your opponent pick a table without any LOS-blocking terrain. Likewise, you don't want to take an IG Attacker army against daemons who are Defenders, only to have the daemons pick a table with a huge LOS-blocking terrain that basically negates your shooting (except for the barrages). So not only do you need to take into consideration the matchups, but you also have to take into account the terrain. So the team that offers up the Defending army has the disadvantage of possibly having to face a tough Attacking army, but he also has the advantage of being able to pick the terrain that may give him the most advantage.
(My) Army Analysis:
So where does my Draicronic Measures NecroKnights rank in the overall team scheme? I believe my army is a great Defender army. It's got mega-resiliency with FNP 2W terminators that can survive any alpha-strike you throw at them. If necessary, I will reserve my weaker units to protect them from the enemy. And if there's any unit that can sit on an objective (or multiple objectives), that would be my paladinstar. Try shifting them off of their objectives. Go ahead....I dare you.
My army can also be an Attacker army if necessary. Sure it's somewhat slow, but not many armies can stop paladins who are advancing. The smarter play would be to just get away from them. With troops in flyers and the potential to make my 2 dreadnoughts scoring via Grand Strategy, I can have up to 5 units take objectives while my paladins go and kill stuff as well as to contest enemy objectives.
Finally, my NecroKnights can also be used as a sacrificial army. I doubt most armies will be able to take out my deathstar, especially if I decide to play defensive with them. Spread out against blast-heavy armies, hide behind LOS-blocking terrain against the more shooty armies and dare the assault armies to go up against me head-on. If anything, my army was built to survive. The addition of the Apothecary has made them immeasurably more survivable, and Coteaz gives me a chance at getting Forewarning or Precognition to make the unit much more survivable. There are still some bad matchups against my army, but overall, I think my army probably has the best chance of surviving the opposition.
Originally, I was concerned about scoring in my army....which was why I decided to make Grey Knights my Primary army. Grand Strategy then gives me potentially 2 additional scoring units with my 2 dreadnoughts. While fragile, I can make them slightly more survivable by putting them in reserves. Then with Psychic Communion, I can have them come in on Turn 2 on a 2+ to beta-strike enemy vehicles/flyers. Thus, my strategy will be to put my more vulnerable, scoring units in Reserves and to hide the other units to deny my opponent easy VP's. I will be relying on this strategy of denial for practically the entire tournament.
I have 2 guys who are going to make a huge difference. The first is Coteaz. He is just such a great force-multiplier with his psychic powers, his deepstrike defense and his ability to affect the Seize rolls. More importantly, he will be my Warlord, thus allowing me to play Draigo much more aggressively. The second guy is my secret weapon. He may not look like much, but I am telling you that he will be a potential game-winner for me....my Necron Overlord. You will see.
As with any deathstar lists, I have exploitable weaknesses. It is because of this that I don't expect to be a great Attacker (that would be my MTO Wraithwing Tesla-crons). Instead, I think my army would make for a great Defending army who can and should net decent Battle Points. The way to play against most deathstar list would be to ignore the deathstar and to go after the supporting units. My list is no exception, which is why I am relying on my strategy of Denial through Reserves. Don't give my opponents much choice in target by reserving as much of my army as possible. Also, if my opponent spreads out, my deathstar will have problems. I can basically move in 1 direction at a time so if I commit to 1 side, then the enemy can get away. The mobility, or rather, lack of mobility for my deathstar is probably my biggest weakness. I can't be in more than 1 place at a time, which is why opposing armies can just ignore my deathstar. How will I deal with that? By not playing as aggressively as most would think. Draigowing is actually a finesse army. What I really need to do is to attack the middle and to control the middle. As long as I put my objectives there, I just need to defend them. I don't really need to over-extend my "reach".
Coming up next....Game #1.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
anonymou5 wrote: You can see the edge of my Army in the photo of the 4 Storm Ravens. So close to getting my puppy conversions in a JY2 thread! Almost famous.
That 4 Raven build may be the subject of my next rambling on FLG, we designed it as our anti-Daemon Army, but when our team fell apart we ended up throwing it against nearly everything, and it did shockingly well. It actually beat Eric Hoager from QC, which I didn't see coming at all. I played Kurt Clauss from QC, which was a super fun game (that I may bat rep, just because we both pulled some crazy dirty tricks on each other). I played Thomas from BOLS, which I won't batrep because he beat me pretty badly, haha. Don't want to shame myself. Besides, a batrep of 7 turns of our Daemon Princes flying in circles around each other is pretty lame...
I'm actually curious as to how your quad-raven teammate did. Also interested in how your Farsun-bomb Tau worked out, though I do understand you got a new player to play that list.
just2fierce wrote: that's my pink chaos army. 2 squads of NM and 2 CSM, 3 havoc squads and 2 turkeys. It was cool to meet all you guys. It was a really fun event and I can't wait to do it again next year. Congrats on the win.
Nice to meet you as well. So how did you do and how did your team do? Which was your team again?
Talore wrote: I can't wait to see more of Paul Murphy's army! If I had that level of talent in building miniatures, I'd almost be tempted to play with IG flyers!
Go to GMMstudios.com he painted it and ha close up shots on his blog.
Congrats jy2 and fluff bunnies!
No wonder his army looked so familiar. I should have figured it out. GMMstudios is just awesome.
And thanks!
JGrand wrote: Justin from team Quality Control here. It is great to see all of these pics from the ATC. It was awesome to meet you in person and play the Fluffy Bunnies for all the marbles!
I'll be on the lookout for your ATC bat reps. Thanks for the photographic chronicle of a really fun event!
Great to play against you guys and great to meet another Dakka persona in person.
Your team was really good. I actually wanted to play against Eric Hoerger and am glad that I got the chance to.
I always enjoy your tournaments reports just for the sheer fact that I love you taking a lot of pictures of other armies there. Love seeing the variety of such beautiful looking armies. Look forward to reading how it turns out for your team.
BigJP wrote: Thanks for taking all these pics. I love seeing all these armies.
Talore wrote: I can't wait to see more of Paul Murphy's army! If I had that level of talent in building miniatures, I'd almost be tempted to play with IG flyers!
Panzer1944 wrote: I always enjoy your tournaments reports just for the sheer fact that I love you taking a lot of pictures of other armies there. Love seeing the variety of such beautiful looking armies. Look forward to reading how it turns out for your team.
Thanks guys. Your encouragements keep me motivated in writing these reports.
It's also one of the reasons why I like tournaments. Besides the competition, I actually like to show off all the nice armies that I see at the tournaments. Besides being great eye-candy, I think it helps to motivate some people to make their armies better (looking).
This event is seriously hard core. Our team was Ordo Exterminatus and I was the captain. It was our first event other than smaller regional stuff done by the same guys that do ATC and the battle bunker in Memphis. A real eye opener. We ended up 3-3 overall, taking losses to the 11th company mercs, Quality Control and General Staff. We drew QC and 11th company in the first 2 rounds.... a great way to start first trip to such a major event, 2 tough losses taken in stride. The guys from both teams were really cool and gave us pointers and tips throughout both rounds.
I'm planning on making the trip to Vegas in February if all goes well so maybe we'll meet up again.
I'd like to start my battle report of Game #1 on p.2 of this thread if possible. This is so p.1 won't be overloaded with too many pictures, thus making the page really slow for some readers, including mobile phone readers. Help bump it up with a couple of comments and we should be there in no time.
Thanks.
Fikol wrote: Beautiful armies and nice tactical analysis. Can't wait to see the reports
please don't keep us waiting for long
Don't worry. Game #1 will be coming out today.
just2fierce wrote: This event is seriously hard core. Our team was Ordo Exterminatus and I was the captain. It was our first event other than smaller regional stuff done by the same guys that do ATC and the battle bunker in Memphis. A real eye opener. We ended up 3-3 overall, taking losses to the 11th company mercs, Quality Control and General Staff. We drew QC and 11th company in the first 2 rounds.... a great way to start first trip to such a major event, 2 tough losses taken in stride. The guys from both teams were really cool and gave us pointers and tips throughout both rounds.
I'm planning on making the trip to Vegas in February if all goes well so maybe we'll meet up again.
Ouch! You went up against some heavy hitters there. While I don't really know General Staff, both QC and 11th Company are really good. 11th Company has some really good players, including 2 GT winners and one who was runner-up to Tony Kopach at Nova. They definitely have the talent to place in the Top5 and even to win it all. As for QC, we played against them in our last matchup. They're a really good team and I can definitely see them winning it all as well.
If you can make it to the Las Vegas Open GT (LVO) in February, I'll definitely see you again there.
4TheG8erGood wrote: In the "Pulse-bomb Tau", any idea what the bike looking guys were used as?
From zooming in, it looks like they might be counts as Eldar Jet bikes, with an counts as Eldar HQ hiding in that ruin. Last I checked Ethereals can't shoot lightning from their fingertips.
Well I think I answered my own question. Can't wait to read the reports! Beautiful armies!
They were Eldar jetbikes. The Farseer was a drone thing. If you scroll to the bottom here, I snapped some close up pictures of them.
Well to help bump this up!, shame we can see the result in your sig but it looks quite a strong team you have put together so expecting you to do well!. Thanks for the army pics I do like the rainbow colour daemons!, Think the maulerfiend is a WFB slaughter brute vortex beast!, very nice conversion.
Looking forward to how your dragiowing worked out, bet you was looking forward to the kill points mission!
I'd like to start my battle report of Game #1 on p.2 of this thread if possible. This is so p.1 won't be overloaded with too many pictures, thus making the page really slow for some readers, including mobile phone readers. Help bump it up with a couple of comments and we should be there in no time.
Thanks for sharing the great pictures - all those armies are very well done. Definite motivation to engage in all aspects of the hobby.
It is also an interesting opportunity to get a wide shot of the meta and think about how Daemons would matchup against them (or whatever your primary army happens to be).
Looking forward to the reports on this.
Edit: Wow that was fast - should have just said bump!
Believe it or not, but Nathan's army may actually give me some problems. He's got a lot of units. If he spreads out his objectives and therefore, his units as well, my paladinstar may have problems reaching them to contest. Unlike armies like Tau or IG, his units aren't really inter-dependent so he doesn't really need to keep them together. While heldrakes don't pose an initial threat to my army, they are a potential threat to my scoring necron warriors and so must be dealt with. I think I have enough shooting to deal with them. However, I'm probably going to have to ignore his riptide initially. Sure, he's a threat to my paladins, but with Draigo up front to soak up the AP2 fire, it shouldn't be that bad. But mainly, I normally kill based on efficiency. Killing his riptide is not efficient, especially not when he's got plenty of scoring troops for me to take out.
Overall, I should be able to handle his army, though if he plays it right, he may give me some problems. By the ways, I will be going 2nd.
For psychic powers, Coteaz gets Prescience and Foreboding (Overwatch at full BS + Counter-attack).
Warlord traits are pretty much useless.
I use Grand Strategy to make both of my dreads scoring.
Chaos deployment.
1 unit of havocs deploy to his left flank. When talking about directionality, I'm going to use it based from my perspective (so the havocs deploy to my right flank).
Deployment to my right. I leave 1 dreadnought in reserves.
My paladinstar deploys directly across from his army. I spread out because of his riptide's ion accelerator.
I don't attempt to steal the initiative. Night-fight and LOS-blocking terrain should protect my dread.
Chaos advances. The riptide merely over-charges his gun.
My opponent is mainly out of range. His riptide manages only to put 1W on Draigo. The rest of his shooting fails to hurt my guys.
NecroKnights 1
Spoiler:
GK movement.
The paladinstar advances.
I fail to get First Blood as my AB and dread only manages to kill 3 havocs. They would pass Morale (unless I note otherwise, you can assume Morale tests when necessary for both sides are passed).
My paladinstar only manages to shoot down 2 CSM due to good saves by my opponent.
Chaos 2
Spoiler:
Only 1 helturkey comes in.
The fire warriors come in as well. CSM's advance.
My opponent is starting to move to the flanks.
Chaos shooting only manages to do 1W to 2 separate paladins. I need to thank my Apothecary for stopping some of those wounds from going through.
NecroKnights 2
Spoiler:
Grey knights and AB move. For some reason, none of my reserves come in!
AB finishes off the havocs for First Blood.
VP's - NecroKnights: 1, CSM+Tau: 0
Prescienced paladins fire at the heldrake and only take off 1 Hull Point.
Chaos 3
Spoiler:
His heldrake vector-strikes my paladins (didn't hurt them) and goes after my dreadnought.
CSM movement.
His CSM's foolishly go after my paladins. I'm not sure my opponent realizes just how nasty my paladinstar is, though he tells me after the game that he was trying to pull my paladins towards the right flank.
Shooting puts 1W on another paladin and another 2W on Draigo.
Heldrake shoots at my AV11 rear AB rather than the AV12 dread. It does nothing.
My opponent then declares the charge on my paladins. However, he forgets that I have Foreboding on (along with Prescience).
He gets off very light for his mistake, losing only 2 guys. He does, however, fail the charge.
NecroKnights 3
Spoiler:
My scoring dread and both flyers come in.
Night scythe goes after his noise marines.
AB jumps 12" into the rear of the helturkey.
My paladinstar prepares for assault.
I am not so easily fooled by his decoy. He is hoping that I finish off his unit and be all clumped up for his riptides pie plate. That trick will only work on newbies, not veterans such as I.
See anything missing?
My AB takes down the helturkey.
VP's - NecroKnights: 2, CSM+Tau: 0
Dreadnought and night scythe combine to take down only 2 noise marines.
I opt not to fire at his unit of CSM. Instead I just charge them.
The are going before my 5 hammers even get to strike. I then spread out with a good consolidation move.
VP's - NecroKnights: 3, CSM+Tau: 0
Chaos 4
Spoiler:
The last heldrake finally comes in. Once again, he vector-strikes my paladins and goes after my AB's rear. Both fail to do any damage.
His units try to get away from my paladins.
Chaos shooting finally manages to kill a couple of paladins, but that is all.
NecroKnights 4
Spoiler:
Soladin comes in.
I prepare for a multi-assault. In this game, I am definitely in Attack mode.
Draigo splits off from the unit and goes after the Chaos Warlord.
AB goes after another heldrake.
Night-scythe drops off my Overlord onto an objective to contest.
I forget about Interceptor from the riptide as he nukes my soladin with Nova-charged TL-fusion blasters. That would be my opponent's only VP of the game.
VP's - NecroKnights: 3, CSM+Tau: 1
He does it again! My AB has now claimed 2 heldrakes and 1 unit of havocs.
VP's - NecroKnights: 4, CSM+Tau: 1
The rest of my shooting does 1W here and there.
Paladins make the charge against the riptide, though they fail to multi-charge the CSM as well.
Draigo charges the Chaos Lord's unit. He fails to wound me. I wound his Warlord twice but he then passes to 5++ saves. Combat is drawn with no wounds each.
Paladins then massively wipe out both the riptide and Tau Commander.
VP's - NecroKnights: 6, CSM+Tau: 1
Chaos 5
Spoiler:
CSM move and fire at my Overlord, only managing to cause 1W to him.
Shooting kills a hammerdin.
In assault, Draigo force weapons his Warlord to death, netting me Slay the Warlord.
VP's - NecroKnights: 7, CSM+Tau: 1
NecroKnights 5
Spoiler:
Here I go for the win. I drop off my warriors to contest his Emperor's Will objective (the blue objective).
The other night scythe drops off the warriors to claim a Crusade objective. Necron Overlord goes after his troops.
Lastly, my paladinstar prepares to wipe out 2 troops.
When the dust settles, I've got his Emperor's Will objective by shooting his troops off of it.
My Overlord assaults his CSM and breaks them in combat.
My paladins wipe out both of the units that they multi-assaulted.
I have Draigo in his deployment zone for Linebreaker. I've also got First Blood and Warlord.
I've got all 3 mission objectives - Purge the Alien, Crusade (3 objectives to 0) and Emperor's Will (I've got both) - plus all the Secondaries for a maximum of 30-pts.
Complete Domination by the Draicronic Measures NecroKnights!!!
My opponent was over-matched and outplayed. But what hurt him most was my Apothecary. I swear, he probably negated about half of the unsaved wounds that I took. I was kind of on the edge with selecting the Apothecary in my army, but for this game at least, it proved to be a wise investment.
After the game, our team was in for quite a shock. We all got 30-pts!!! That's 150-pts for the team! I don't think in the history of the ATC with all its teams and all its games that this has ever happened in 1 round of play. And in order to be perfect, all of us have had to have gotten First Blood. In any case, we were quite estatic. Now going forwards, we were going to play the rest of our games with quite a comfortable lead. And as long as we didn't screw up, I thought we actually had a good chance to make it to play the defending champions, Wrecking BoLS.
Well to help bump this up!, shame we can see the result in your sig but it looks quite a strong team you have put together so expecting you to do well!. Thanks for the army pics I do like the rainbow colour daemons!, Think the maulerfiend is a WFB slaughter brute vortex beast!, very nice conversion.
Looking forward to how your dragiowing worked out, bet you was looking forward to the kill points mission!
Ok, I took it out for now.
Yeah, the maulerfiend-count-as model he is using is actually the Mutalith Vortex Beast from the WFB Warriors of Chaos line. I'm also using that model for my maulerfiends.
I'd like to start my battle report of Game #1 on p.2 of this thread if possible. This is so p.1 won't be overloaded with too many pictures, thus making the page really slow for some readers, including mobile phone readers. Help bump it up with a couple of comments and we should be there in no time.
Thanks.
Uhh....I can't wait to see what happens?
It's ok, Kevin. I saved you a front-row seat.
calypso2ts wrote: Thanks for sharing the great pictures - all those armies are very well done. Definite motivation to engage in all aspects of the hobby.
It is also an interesting opportunity to get a wide shot of the meta and think about how Daemons would matchup against them (or whatever your primary army happens to be).
Looking forward to the reports on this.
Edit: Wow that was fast - should have just said bump!
Well, there was a mix of different daemon builds. Our Team Captain, Bill, ran FMC-spam daemons and ended up as the 2nd best Daemon player. The top Daemon player ran Nurgle Daemons w/2 GUO's, Typhus + zombies and 3 soulgrinders.
However, as I kind of expected, daemons didn't really take the top positions individually. Over a series of games (6) that is common of most GT's, I believe that daemons will struggle with either consistency in performance or they are unbalanced to the point that they have higher chances of having a bad matchup.
Mythantor wrote: Might be an idea to put the P#1 army pictures in spoiler tabs. Massive scrollage to try and look though them all.
Seeing all of those armies really makes me want to paint. And play in a tournament with that many people. Largest tournament in my area is around 30 people.
Talore wrote: Woah, there was a pure Ork list? Do you know how well it fared over the course of the tournament?
Orks on the whole did slightly below average. There were 7 ork players and they averaged only 77.4 Battle Points (out of 180), with the median being 90.
Kevin's ork opponent ended up ranked #123 out of 170 players.
spacewolved wrote: Seeing all of those armies really makes me want to paint. And play in a tournament with that many people. Largest tournament in my area is around 30 people.
Yeah, this tournament was huge with 170 players. The next largest one that I've been to was the Bay Area Open GT 2012 with 144 players. Before that, it was the Golden Throne GT with 60 players.
I want to express my gratitude to you personally for all of the hard work you put into these reports. They are great and what makes our hobby so awesome. I would also like to thank you for going around and getting pictures of everyone's armies. I scour the pictures closely for conversion ideas and paint schemes. Keep up the good work!
Jy2, always enjoy your battle reports, it would be great if you could include how the match up's got decided for your games. Right of the bat it looks like you got to match against that chaos player as I think your list is a decent counter to his. That chaos list is all about Ap3 fire.
Yeah, I did match up well against my CSM opponent. Then again, our entire team probably matched up really well against our opponents as we all won with max points, which was no small feat.
From thereon out, it only got more difficult. Our 1st round opponents were probably our easiest. After that, we played against teams that ended up 11th, 5th, 4th, 3rd and 2nd overall (not necessarily in that order).
Brymm wrote: I am extremely excited to see these results.
I want to express my gratitude to you personally for all of the hard work you put into these reports. They are great and what makes our hobby so awesome. I would also like to thank you for going around and getting pictures of everyone's armies. I scour the pictures closely for conversion ideas and paint schemes. Keep up the good work!
Thanks. I took but a very few pictures compared to how many armies there actuall were, but I try to do whatever I can between games and shooting the breeze with my fellow gamers.
Pony_law wrote: Jy2, always enjoy your battle reports, it would be great if you could include how the match up's got decided for your games. Right of the bat it looks like you got to match against that chaos player as I think your list is a decent counter to his. That chaos list is all about Ap3 fire.
That is a great request.
In round #1, I forgot the sequence of the armies that were put up. However, I do know that our opponents offered up my CSM/Tau opponent as a Defender army. Our team then decided that I would be a good matchup against him, probably because my army scoffs at his heldrakes and that he really didn't have the type of shooting that could really hurt my paladins.
So the thinking there was " Bah hell turkey's...bring on thanksgiving dinner, lets smash some Traitors" My list isnt too worried about the major threat being flyers, let me waltz through his gound pounders?
Alexi wrote: So the thinking there was " Bah hell turkey's...bring on thanksgiving dinner, lets smash some Traitors" My list isnt too worried about the major threat being flyers, let me waltz through his gound pounders?
In a nutshell, yes. The Top 3 reasons why this was a good matchup for me:
1. Turkey, smurkey. They don't bother me the slightest.
2. Lack of AP 1/2 shootng or assault. Lack of guns that double-out m paladns. My list was built to withstand small-arms fire.
3. My opponent lacked mobility as well. He wasn't going to be able to get away from my paladins quite so easily.
Automatically Appended Next Post: ------------------------------------------------------------------
Preview of our Round #2 opponents:
This is a preview of my Round #2 opponent. Report coming tomorrow.
Little did we know that our next round opponents was also the team that scored the second highest after Round #1. As a matter of fact, they came out after Round #1 with 149 Battle Points!!!
My next opponent had a list that none of us really wanted to play against - triple-stormraven Grey Knights! As we all run psychic armies, none of us really wanted to play against all those Mindstrike missiles. Seeing the reluctance of my teammates, I decided to bite the bullet and step up against my opponent.
Round #2 - Triple-Raven Grey Knights
Coteaz
Inquisitor - Level 1 Psyker, Force Weapon, Rad/Psykatroke Grenades
Stormraven - TL-Assault Cannon, TL-Multi-melta, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo
Stormraven - TL-Assault Cannon, TL-Multi-melta, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo
Stormraven - TL-Assault Cannon, TL-Multi-melta, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo
"Psyfleman" Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo, Searchlights
"Psyfleman" Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
"Psyfleman" Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Aegis Defense Lines - Comms Relay
What's worse was that Fast Attacks were scoring in this round. Moreover, the ATC ruled it that flyers that were scoring can capture/contest objectives on the ground - you only need to measure horizontally from the hull of the flyer.
The only bright spot for me was that I was going 2nd. However, I really didn't know how I was going to deal with his ravens and their mindstrike missiles. Moreover, he had a ton of shooting that could double out my paladins as well as a very, very dangerous assault element to his army. Yes, with power axes on the deathcults, Rad/Psykatroke grenades from his Inquisitor and Psyk-out grenades + Prescience from Coteaz, his assault was a very real threat to my paladins.
BTW, I'd like to hear what you guys think of this matchup. On paper, it may well be one of my toughest matchups of the tournament. As for my opponent's skill level, he also got 30-pts last round.
If you go second you could give him fits with your fliers so it will really depend on rolls. Ideally for you is to go second. Turn 2, 2 Ravens loaded with DCA and crusaders show up then get shot out of the sky by your fliers / dreads. Suddenly you have a significant a advantage. That said the opposite could happen then your screwed.
Heakyeah wrote: If you go second you could give him fits with your fliers so it will really depend on rolls. Ideally for you is to go second. Turn 2, 2 Ravens loaded with DCA and crusaders show up then get shot out of the sky by your fliers / dreads. Suddenly you have a significant a advantage. That said the opposite could happen then your screwed.
It would take some good rolling for his 2 dreads, barge and 2 fliers to shoot 3 ravens down though. In one turn. If any of those survive 3 ravens (well apart from the night scythes in reserve). Or would you reserve everything against this list?
I would think you would want to get into CC with any of his units ASAP. He also has a lot of small units that will be easy KP, so it might be an easier win taking out a couple of those a turn.
If he rolls scrier's gaze on coteaz that'd be amusing (all 3 SRs virtually guranteed turn 2), but I guess that's the point of the comms relay.
If I had his list I'd blow shoot the mind strike missiles turn 1, try and perils out apothecary/coteaz/Draigo (probably in that order) then harass/charge you in subsequent turns.
The triple psyflemen should do a number against yours + annhilation barge though I guess you can avoid that reserving/hiding. Will be interested to see how it goes.
This is how I would play it if I were running the 3-raven GK list.
First off, I'd hide all my easy VP's like this:
Then I'd use the Comms relay to try to delay my guys until enemy flyers/dreadnoughts come in first.
Then I'd ignore the paladins initially and go after all the supporting units - the flyers and the scoring dreadnoughts (via Grand Strategy).
Lastly will I focus on the paladins after I've taken care of everything else that I can.
IMO, that is how you should play against deathstar armies (and that is how I beat deathstar armies) - by killing off the supporting cast. We'll see if my opponent plays it that way as well.
Thanks for your patience, guys. Report will be up later today.
I have to admit, I would have thought the SW teammate would fair better against Storm Ravens and CC henchies. Enough missiles can drop a SR pretty quickly. And the RP was the only psycher, right? But, then, I don't know much about Space Wolves so I can only make assumptions in that regard.
And, in my experience, Mindstrikes aren't that great against someone who spreads out properly. In fact, I'd say that about most blast weapons without Barrage or something to make up for it. It's painful if they're on target, but I've rarely found the smaller blast template landing anywhere near where I want it to.
I also don't think people give enough credit to PsyDreads as anti-air. 4 twin-linked shots will typically lead to at least one strength 8 hit on a flyer.
Anyway, hope you did well against this guy. I always hate seeing so many armor 12 flyers on a list. Really annoying to deal with unless the dice are on your side.
Trekend wrote: I have to admit, I would have thought the SW teammate would fair better against Storm Ravens and CC henchies. Enough missiles can drop a SR pretty quickly. And the RP was the only psycher, right? But, then, I don't know much about Space Wolves so I can only make assumptions in that regard.
A word on pairing strategy: the goal behind our team's strategy was simply to avoid worst-case matchups; in this particular round, triple-GK ravens would have been an absolute nightmare for my Tyranids (it's almost impossible to scatter off of a Tervigon base), and had potential to be really bad for Bill's (psychic) FMC spam, as a single failed grounding test on a DP right before the Ravens fired could mean eating 6 automatic Perils hits. You can only control so much - the triple-raven list wasn't offered up as a Defender by our opponents, but was chosen to fight Jim, as we were carefully hiding Bill & I from exposure.
Basically, in any given round, both teams have pretty decent control over what at least 2 of their armies will have to face. This was one of their attacker forces; all we could do is avoid it with the stuff that would hurt most, rather than pair it specifically against what we would want to face it.
Trekend wrote: I have to admit, I would have thought the SW teammate would fair better against Storm Ravens and CC henchies. Enough missiles can drop a SR pretty quickly. And the RP was the only psycher, right? But, then, I don't know much about Space Wolves so I can only make assumptions in that regard.
A word on pairing strategy: the goal behind our team's strategy was simply to avoid worst-case matchups; in this particular round, triple-GK ravens would have been an absolute nightmare for my Tyranids (it's almost impossible to scatter off of a Tervigon base), and had potential to be really bad for Bill's (psychic) FMC spam, as a single failed grounding test on a DP right before the Ravens fired could mean eating 6 automatic Perils hits. You can only control so much - the triple-raven list wasn't offered up as a Defender by our opponents, but was chosen to fight Jim, as we were carefully hiding Bill & I from exposure.
Basically, in any given round, both teams have pretty decent control over what at least 2 of their armies will have to face. This was one of their attacker forces; all we could do is avoid it with the stuff that would hurt most, rather than pair it specifically against what we would want to face it.
Are you sure he was the Attacker army? That actually would make more sense. His army was more of an Attacker army than a Defender army.
What I recall was that we were debating on who didn't want to go up against his army. I then offered myself up to take the challenge despite what his army could do to mine. That's why I thought I was the Attacker in this case. Also, if I was the defender, I most likely wouldn't have picked that terrain. It was open in the middle. Instead, I'd probably have picked a terran with a nice LOS-blocking terrain in the middle where I could hide Coteaz and my banner/Apothecary guy at the very least.
In any case, if I was the defender, then it was just my (un)luck that they put their GK player on me. But I guess that ended up good for the team because I was willing to get pounded on by his army for the sake of the team.
Trekend wrote: I have to admit, I would have thought the SW teammate would fair better against Storm Ravens and CC henchies. Enough missiles can drop a SR pretty quickly. And the RP was the only psycher, right? But, then, I don't know much about Space Wolves so I can only make assumptions in that regard.
And, in my experience, Mindstrikes aren't that great against someone who spreads out properly. In fact, I'd say that about most blast weapons without Barrage or something to make up for it. It's painful if they're on target, but I've rarely found the smaller blast template landing anywhere near where I want it to.
I also don't think people give enough credit to PsyDreads as anti-air. 4 twin-linked shots will typically lead to at least one strength 8 hit on a flyer.
Anyway, hope you did well against this guy. I always hate seeing so many armor 12 flyers on a list. Really annoying to deal with unless the dice are on your side.
I believe our SW player was already matched up before it came to this matchup (though I'm not 100% certain). In several of our matchups, Space Wolf Mike was our "Sacrificial" army, going 1st a couple of times.....though I was put up as a sacrificial army against one of our opponents.
But yeah, I had to make sure to spread out my paladinstar almost all game. I actually wasn't as concerned about a direct hit as I was about a scatter that could hit multiple models. At least I had a 1/3 chance of surviving a mindstrike hit thanks to my Apothecary.
I was definitely going to rely on my psydreads. However, my opponent out-numbered me with his shooting with 3 dreads of his own and PotMS shooting from his raven. If done properly, he could still shoot mindstrikes at my paladins while using his TL-MM on my vehicles.
BTW, his deathcults would do a number on any of the SW units as well. Buffed up by psychic powers, they are just plain nasty!
Janthkin wrote: A word on pairing strategy: the goal behind our team's strategy was simply to avoid worst-case matchups; in this particular round, triple-GK ravens would have been an absolute nightmare for my Tyranids (it's almost impossible to scatter off of a Tervigon base), and had potential to be really bad for Bill's (psychic) FMC spam, as a single failed grounding test on a DP right before the Ravens fired could mean eating 6 automatic Perils hits. You can only control so much - the triple-raven list wasn't offered up as a Defender by our opponents, but was chosen to fight Jim, as we were carefully hiding Bill & I from exposure.
Basically, in any given round, both teams have pretty decent control over what at least 2 of their armies will have to face. This was one of their attacker forces; all we could do is avoid it with the stuff that would hurt most, rather than pair it specifically against what we would want to face it.
Bleh. I completely forgot to take into account how the opponents were actually picked. You're right. It'd be hard to get that specific match-up. Setting the guy up by handing him a full psycher army as (what he thinks) is an easy victory is a much better plan. My bad.
I believe our SW player was already matched up before it came to this matchup (though I'm not 100% certain). In several of our matchups, Space Wolf Mike was our "Sacrificial" army, going 1st a couple of times.....though I was put up as a sacrificial army against one of our opponents.
But yeah, I had to make sure to spread out my paladinstar almost all game. I actually wasn't as concerned about a direct hit as I was about a scatter that could hit multiple models. At least I had a 1/3 chance of surviving a mindstrike hit thanks to my Apothecary.
I was definitely going to rely on my psydreads. However, my opponent out-numbered me with his shooting with 3 dreads of his own and PotMS shooting from his raven. If done properly, he could still shoot mindstrikes at my paladins while using his TL-MM on my vehicles.
BTW, his deathcults would do a number on any of the SW units as well. Buffed up by psychic powers, they are just plain nasty!
I could see that SW army being good at taking on practically anything the opponent throws at it. Though that may be personal bias since my friend loves to run Cyclones on everything he can (and thus, they scare the hell out of me).
And I did forget that FnP isn't a save, so it can be used against perils. I imagine that saved a few Paladins.
While you're right about using PotMS to hit your Paladins while firing at your vehicles, I doubt you'd give him the opportunity without hitting him first with your own dreads (via LoS blocking terrain, or keeping them in reserve until his flyers were on the board). Besides, his dreads can deal with your dreads (as you pointed out). I think I'd rather use those MMs to try and ID some Pallies. But that might be because our local GK player has gotten me scared to death of those 55 point models :(
I'll take your word for it on the deathcult assassins. To be fair, I've never seen anyone use them, so I have no idea how they actually perform in battle. Here's hoping I get to see how they do in CC in this report
jy2 wrote: Are you sure he was the Attacker army? That actually would make more sense. His army was more of an Attacker army than a Defender army.
What I recall was that we were debating on who didn't want to go up against his army. I then offered myself up to take the challenge despite what his army could do to mine. That's why I thought I was the Attacker in this case. Also, if I was the defender, I most likely wouldn't have picked that terrain. It was open in the middle. Instead, I'd probably have picked a terran with a nice LOS-blocking terrain in the middle where I could hide Coteaz and my banner/Apothecary guy at the very least.
In any case, if I was the defender, then it was just my (un)luck that they put their GK player on me. But I guess that ended up good for the team because I was willing to get pounded on by his army for the sake of the team.
I'm not sure. Looking at the pairings, it could have gone with you as defender in slot #3, but it may have been a "throw Jim on the grenade" moment in slot #4. All I'm certain of for this round was a) they attacked with their Orks (as if they'd defended with them, they would likely have been mine); b) neither Bill nor I were in one of the Defender slots; and c) the dual-Wraithknight/Dreadknight army & I were the leftovers in slot #5.
Next year, we should take notes on the pairing orders; it's a really interesting part of the game, but harder to reconstruct after the fact.
The thing about winning big is that you get paired up with another team that also won big. We got 150 last round, which I thought no one would even come close.....I was wrong. Our opponents going into this round was coming in with 149 Battle Points (BP's)! So they must be doing something right. Now I'm slightly fuzzy on who we or who they put up as Attacker/Defender, but I ended up going against their Team Captain, Casey and his very intimidating triple-raven pure GK list.
Our other matchups consisted of:
Kevin: Eldar w/Grey Knight allies (2 Crimson Hunters, 2 Wraithknights and 1 Dreadknight)
Bill: Tau w/Eldar allies (2 Riptides, Crisis Suits, Broadsides, WarWalkers)
Brandon: Orks (Ghazghkull, Mad Doc, 3x14 Lootas, lots of boys)
This is not going to be an easy matchup for me. Bill, Kevin and I didn't really wanted to play against 3 stormravens with 12 mindstrike missiles due to the psychic nature of our armies. Moreover, none of us could reliably take down 3 AV12 flyers. After discussing for a bit, I decided that I would be the one to jump on top of this grenade. I could be wrong, but I believe we put out Space Wolf Mike first as the sacrificial army and they accepted with their chaos FMC-spam player. I think that they then offered out their Team Captain's GK list and I took it (though from what Kevin is saying, it might have been the other way around). In any case, I'm sure Casey was happy to be matched up against me.
To put it mildly, Casey's army has the potential to really kick my a$$. He's got 12 mindstrike missiles which can be used to snipe out particular paladins. If I make the mistake of clumping up (i.e. especially after an assault where I consolidate poorly), his ravens can really hurt me. My only saving grace is that at least I get FNP against Perils of the Warp from his mindstrike missiles. The rest of his shooting can be quite deadly as well. TL-multi-meltas and psyfleman dreads can double-out my paladins and bypass my FNP (except for Draigo). He should also have no problems whatsoever against my flyers and armour. Multi-meltas on a flyer pretty much ensures that he can get within double-damage range of my vehicles whenever he wants, and psyflemans are great at knocking out my flyers and other psyflemans.
And then we have assault. You think paladins are deadly in assault? Wait til you try getting charged by 30 deathcult assassins (each with a power sword and power axe) + crusaders, especially when they'e buffed with Prescience, Rad grenades and Psykatroke grenades. Against my grey knights, my opponent has the added bonus of Psyk-out grenades from Coteaz, which will reduce my paladins to I1 when they get the charge off (and they will get the charge off unless I can miraculously shoot down all 3 of his ravens). I've actually seen this happen back in 5th Ed., but with only 20 deathcults against a full paladinstar and let me tell you, things did not end up well for the paladins as they lost combat, broke and ran off the table.
Lastly, I'm going to have problems dealing with his ravens. AV12 flyers are hard for anyone to shoot down, and my opponent will get the beta-strike with them, whether it be against my flyers or my dreadnoughts + annihilation barge. If my opponent plays it correctly, his ravens should take out my AT on the turn they come in and ignore my paladins, at least for 1 round. That would be how I would play his army. If he can do that, then he should easily take this game. With my AT gone, I will have no way to stop his flyers from taking/contesting the objectives. Yes, it's against RAW, but the ATC ruled it that flyers can take/contest objectives (measured horizontally from any part of the hull only) as long as they are scoring. Thus, any type of flyers that are scoring can take objectives, not just the heldrakes. Thus, my opponet has got 9 scoring units in this game!
For psychic powers, my Coteaz gets Prescience and Perfect Timing (Ignore cover).
Casey's Coteaz gets Prescience and Misfortune.
Warlord traits are pretty much useless.
I use Grand Strategy to make 1 of my dreads scoring.
Casey's deployment.
I'm pretty sure Casey played it wrong here. He deploys the 2 henchmen units, the strikers and Inquisitor only (4 units).
What he had in reserves:
Coteaz
3x Deathcult units
3x Stormravens
3x Dreadnoughts
If you take away the 3 ravens (because they must begin the game in reserves), he's got 7 units in reserves. That's more than half of his army in reserves, which is illegal.
However, he contended that a unit in a flyer didn't count towards the maximum reserves requirements. Thus all he had in reserves (that counted) was Coteaz and the 3 dreads.
I told him that was only the case if it was a unit with a dedicated transport. But I didn't want to start off the game with an argument so I just let him do it. I've already called the judge over once already to clarify the scoring flyer issue (which I was not aware of) and didn't want to do so a 2nd time before our game even started. To me, it was no biggie. Yeah, it makes it more challenging, however, it also means that when I shoot down his flyer, more guys are going to die.
EDIT -- After checking the FAQ's, I found out my opponent played it correctly.
His deployment from my perspective. I can't see anything!
My deployment.
On the board is Draigo, Coteaz, paladinstar, annihilation barge and the non-scoring dread (5 units). In reserves are my Overlord, soladin and my scoring dread (3 units). Doh!!! I messed up on my deployment! I wanted to reserve both dreads but miscounted on my reserves! #$%&*@^#!!!
Henchmen sits behind their Aegis and behind the LOS-blocking terrain, twiddling their thumbs.
NecroKnights 1
Spoiler:
Coteaz casts his powers. Grey knights move and then run up. Annihilation barge goes flat-out. Dreadnought hides.
Raven Knights 2
Spoiler:
More thumb twiddling by his henchmen.
This turn was actually amazing in that - with the help of the Comms Relay and Psychic Communion - all 6 of my opponent's units manages to stay in Reserves!!! What do I have to say about that? F*ck me, I'm screwed!!!
NecroKnights 2
Spoiler:
Coteaz perils while trying to cast 1 of his powers.
With Psychic Communion, I manage to keep my scoring dread and soladin out. However, both night scythes come in.
I go after his strikers/henchmen. My Overlord disembarks into terrain.
I then shoot at the unit of strikers and 3 henchmen. He goes-to-ground with both and passes every single 2+ cover save.
The rest of my army moves and runs. AB moves flat-out. Dread continues to hide.
Raven Knights 3
Spoiler:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! All his reserves come in!
2 of his flyers go after 2 of my flyers. His 3rd raven goes after my AB.
All 3 dreads come in as well, 2 to the right and 1 to the left flank.
Ravens down 1 night scythe for First Blood and immobilizes the other one.
VP's - RavenKnights: 1, NecroKnights: 0
Multi-melta from his 3rd raven (via Power of the Machine Spirit) gets through my barge's 4+ cover and explodes it!
VP's - RavenKnights: 2, NecroKnights: 0
His psyfleman then blows away my immobilized night scythe.
VP's - RavenKnights: 3, NecroKnights: 0
Hurricane bolters manage to put 1W on Draigo.
Mindstrike missiles hit Coteaz twice! Fortunately, I make 1 of my FNP saves. I'm not sure how, but he kills my warding stave paladin. I believe it was from his psyfleman dread on the left flank.
Uh, oh....I was going to rely on my warding stave against assault from his deathcults. This could be bad....
Going 2nd, I was hoping to be able to get the beta-strike on my opponent. Instead, he got the beta-strike on me and it wasn't pretty. He just took out my 3 best anti-air units as well as 2 flying transports. And to add insult to injury, he took out my warding stave paladin which I needed to stay alive against his upcoming assault.
But not all is lost. He seems to have forgotten about my Overlord, who is in assault/contesting range of his guys on his Emperor's Will and 1 Crusade objective.
NecroKnights 3
Spoiler:
Both of my walking warrior squads comes in. I try to bring in my dread early with Psychic Communion (coming in on a 2+) but he refuses to come in. I keep my soladin out.
Coteaz casts his powers as usual (would do this every turn).
This is when my opponent remembers about my Overlord....when I get ready to assault his troops.
With Prescience and Perfect Timing, my paladins manage to pen his right raven and blow it up, giving me 2 VP's because it is a Fast Attack. Half of the unit dies in the explosion.
VP's - RavenKnights: 3, NecroKnights: 2
My dread doesn't do anything to the ravens.
Warriors then run up.
Paladins then charge the remaining deathcults....
....and wipe them out.
VP's - RavenKnights: 3, NecroKnights: 3
My Overlord makes the charge. Mindshackle passes but my opponent fails to wound himself. My Overlord then issues a challenge which his justicar declines. We both then whiff completely in combat.
Raven Knights 4
Spoiler:
Both ravens go into Hover mode so his deathcults could disembark. His Coteaz casts Prescience and the assassins get ready to engage the paladins.
Mindstrike missiles either miss or I make my FNP tests (or both). Draigo tanks the multi-meltas and I laugh off the hurricane psybolters. My opponent only manages to shoot down 1 paladin with his 2 ravens.
I believe PotMS shooting from 1 raven and a dread shoots down 2 warriors after I go-to-ground with them.
Lastly, his dreads take out my dread.
VP's - RavenKnights: 4, NecroKnights: 3
Both units of deathcults make the charge (though Coteaz's unit barely makes it). I kill off 1 crusader and the banisher with my Overwatch.
Check this out.
He gets almost 40 attacks at WS5 with S5 AP2 power axes. More than half of his attacks are re-rolling to hit due to Prescience. We both strike at I1 due to Psyk-out grenades from Coteaz.
Draigo then proceeds to tank 22 of those wounds (with the help of FNP from the Apothecary)!!! He takes 2W (down to 1W remaining) and I lose 1 paladin. In return, I kill off 5 deathcults from each unit and wipe out any crusaders that were still alive!
Both units of deathcults would then pass their Morale tests.
My Overlord once again whiffs and he remains locked in combat with the strikers.
NecroKnights 4
Spoiler:
My last dread finally comes in.
I try to deepstrike my soladin behind LOS-blocking terrain but he scatters out in the open.
Luck is on my side as my dread takes out another raven with a penetrating hit (though in all fairness, it was hovering).
VP's - RavenKnights: 4, NecroKnights: 5
Warriors move and then run for some cover.
In combat, my Overlord takes out 3 knights. However, they would pass Morale.
In combat, I kill some more deathcults. I wipe out the unit of assassins without Coteaz. I can't believe I am winning this battle!
VP's - RavenKnights: 4, NecroKnights: 6
Raven Knights 5
Spoiler:
His last raven goes after my scoring dreadnought.
My dread doesn't survive a multi-melta blast to the face.
VP's - RavenKnights: 5, NecroKnights: 6
It takes both dreads but they finally insta-gib my soladin.
VP's - RavenKnights: 6, NecroKnights: 6
In combat, I lose Draigo and 1 paladin, but I wipe out his band of assassins. I also get Slay the Warlord for killing his Coteaz.
VP's - RavenKnights: 7, NecroKnights: 8
Finally, my Overlor finishes off the strikers.
VP's - RavenKnights: 7, NecroKnights: 9
NecroKnights 5
Spoiler:
Paladinstar goes after the last raven. I fire but fail to take it out, only doing 1 HP of damage instead.
Warriors make it onto my Emperor's Will objective (the blue one) after running.
Overlord assaults and kills 2 henchmen from his Inquisitor's unit.
If the game is to end now, I will win with Crusade and Purge the Alien (Emperor's Will is contested).
We roll to see if the game continues and it does.
Raven Knights 6
Spoiler:
His raven goes into Hover mode in an attempt to wipe out my warriors.
Not only does Casey manage to take out my troops, but he also kills off Coteaz (I believe it was with a mindstrike missile) and gets Slay the Warlord as well.
VP's - RavenKnights: 9, NecroKnights: 9
However, my Overlord goes on to finish off the unit of henchmen and the Inquisitor as well.
VP's - RavenKnights: 9, NecroKnights: 11
NecroKnights 6
Spoiler:
Overview of what may very well be the last turn of the game. I've still got 3 psycannons left in my paladinstar.
I go for his raven.
I don't even need to assault as I blow it out of the sky with my psycannons.
VP's - RavenKnights: 9, NecroKnights: 13
The "Boss" assaults his last unit of henchmen and cleans house.
Holy Cats! This guy got my 4 VP's all by himself as well as Linebreaker and clearing 2 enemy objectives (Emperor's Will and 1 Crusade objective).
VP's - RavenKnights: 9, NecroKnights: 14
The game goes onto a final turn.
Raven Knights 7
Spoiler:
Psyflemans shoot down 1 paladin and try to get into position to take out my warriors, not that it matters.
NecroKnights 7
Spoiler:
I spread out on the objectives....
....and finish this game by shooting down his dread.
My opponent has no more scoring units left. I win all 3 mission objectives - Emperor's Will, Crusade and Purge the Alien. He gets First Blood, I get Linebreaker and we both get Warlord. My NecroKnights take it 27-3.
Complete Domination by the Draicronic Measures NecroKnights!!!
Wow...I'm still not 100% sure how I did it....but I did. Not only did I pull off a victory here, but I actually dominated, even after giving up First Blood and losing all 3 necron vehicles and without my 2nd dread coming in until Turn 4 (despite coming in on 2+ due to Psychic Communion). How did I do it?
1) I kind of took my opponent by surprise with my Overlord. I was able to do this partially because my opponent forgot about him and partially because my opponent used all his resources against my 3 necron vehicles. In any case, it was a perfect scenario for my Ovelord. He had 3 weak scoring units in really close range of both his Emperor's Will objective and 1 Crusade objective. Even had I not killed all 3 units, my Overlord was in easy contesting range of both of his objectives as well as being within Linebreaker range.
2) I gotta admit that luck was on my side. Initially, it was rough for me as my opponent couldn't fail a single save and he got his reserves in after mine (which was exactly what he wanted). He then killed 3 of my vehicles on his Turn 3 as I couldn't pass a single Jink save for all 3 of my flyers. But then my luck changed on my Turn 3. Now my opponent's dice wasn't bad. As a matter of fact, it was still quite good. However, mine was just better.
With the exception of 1 attempt at his raven, my shooting was golden. Despite losing both flyers and my AB, almost every vehicle I shot at, I killed. I either penned and I blew it up or I glanced it to death in just 1 volley. It did help that I had Perfect Timing on my paladins to negate any cover saves, but my shootin was just amazing.
And then there was that combat between my deathstar and his deathcults. The Turn 3 combat was a pivotal one. If I failed that combat, I would have most likely lost the game. With a 3++ save followed by 5+ FNP, 2 out of 9 Wounds should have gotten through Draigo. As for the paladins, 4 out of 9 Wounds should have gone through. Statistically, Draigo should die after 14W and the rest of the wounds would have gone onto my paladins. With 26 wounds inflicted, he should have killed off Draigo and about 2.5 paladins (or 5W to my paladins). Instead, Draigo lived and I only lost 1 paladin. I'd say I beat the odds in that battle.
I really didn't make any mistakes, other than to deploy my dread when I didn't have to. As for my opponent, the only real mistake I felt he did was to forget about my Overlord. Otherwise, we both played fairly well. I just had the better luck when I needed it most - the 2nd half of the game.
As for my MVP of the game, it's a tough call. Paladins took out 2 ravens, 1 dread and all 3 deathcult units. Draigo was a boss for tanking all those shots. My Overlord was phenomenal and single-handedly cleared my opponents backfield units. But IMO, I would give the MVP to my Apothecary. He saved so many guys, both from assault as well as from the Mindstrike missiles. Without the Apothecary, I am almost certain that I would have lost my paladins and my opponent would have ended up with control of the middle and most likely the game.
As for my teammates, Janthkin and I scored the highest for our team this round, both with 27-pts. Bill did well with 23-pts. As a sacrificial army, Mike surprised me when he managed to eke out a 17-13 victory against a 6 MC-spam Chaos army. Only Brandon lost in a controversial game where he was clearly dominating his ork opponent. He lost 14-16 but had the game continued for 1 more turn, he actually had a good chance to table his opponent.
Overall, our team ended up with a 108-42 win against a team that got 149 BP's the 1st round. As it turned out, we were still in a solid lead for 1st. Our opponents, Tag Team Uranus, would end their run as the 11th ranked team in the tournament.
jy2 wrote: Yes, it's against RAW, but the ATC ruled it that flyers can take/contest objectives (measured horizontally from any part of the hull only) as long as they are scoring. Thus, any type of flyers that are scoring can take objectives, not just the heldrakes.
I see this come up quite a bit. I have never seen a rule that says Flyers cannot control Objectives in Scouring/BGNT. Generally it will be quite difficult as most objectives are on the ground and Flyers are never within 3" of the ground.
While you're right about using PotMS to hit your Paladins while firing at your vehicles, I doubt you'd give him the opportunity without hitting him first with your own dreads (via LoS blocking terrain, or keeping them in reserve until his flyers were on the board). Besides, his dreads can deal with your dreads (as you pointed out). I think I'd rather use those MMs to try and ID some Pallies. But that might be because our local GK player has gotten me scared to death of those 55 point models :(
I'll take your word for it on the deathcult assassins. To be fair, I've never seen anyone use them, so I have no idea how they actually perform in battle. Here's hoping I get to see how they do in CC in this report
Well, my opponent did get Misfortune for his Coteaz and normally in such a case, I would want my paladins within 12" of my dread for Reinforced Aegis (-4 on the enemy LD for psychic tests). If he angles it properly, he just might be able to do it with 1, maybe even 2 ravens.
My plan was to hold my dreads back in reserves until his ravens came in and then bring them in for the beta-strike. However, I messed up on my deployment, deploying 1 extra dread when I could have reserved him (miscounted my reserves).
But the real kicker here was this: with his Comms Relay and Psychic Communion, he actually managed to get his reserves in after my reserves came in! Thus, he was the one who ended up with the beta-strike on my units even though he went first!!!
As for the deathcults, it is precisely because they are so rare that most people under-estimate them. But I've had firsthand experience playing against them several times. That unit is cheap and super-killy. You want a unit gone in an instant? Just assault them with deathcults buffed by GK grenades. That unit can ruin almost any other unit's day in the blink of an eye.
jy2 wrote: Are you sure he was the Attacker army? That actually would make more sense. His army was more of an Attacker army than a Defender army.
What I recall was that we were debating on who didn't want to go up against his army. I then offered myself up to take the challenge despite what his army could do to mine. That's why I thought I was the Attacker in this case. Also, if I was the defender, I most likely wouldn't have picked that terrain. It was open in the middle. Instead, I'd probably have picked a terran with a nice LOS-blocking terrain in the middle where I could hide Coteaz and my banner/Apothecary guy at the very least.
In any case, if I was the defender, then it was just my (un)luck that they put their GK player on me. But I guess that ended up good for the team because I was willing to get pounded on by his army for the sake of the team.
I'm not sure. Looking at the pairings, it could have gone with you as defender in slot #3, but it may have been a "throw Jim on the grenade" moment in slot #4. All I'm certain of for this round was a) they attacked with their Orks (as if they'd defended with them, they would likely have been mine); b) neither Bill nor I were in one of the Defender slots; and c) the dual-Wraithknight/Dreadknight army & I were the leftovers in slot #5.
Next year, we should take notes on the pairing orders; it's a really interesting part of the game, but harder to reconstruct after the fact.
Yeah, I should have taken notes on the order of the pairings. It is actually rather quite fascinating and what makes the Team tournament so interesting.
Dozer Blades wrote: I'd rather have one easy round. My team had its work cut out every round. I am sure it will get a lot more interesting each round now.
Oh, were you there? Which was your team and what army did you bring?
Yeah, other than our 1st round opponent, all the teams we played against were really tough. The rest of our opponents ended up 11th, 5th, 4th, 3rd and 2nd in the tournament.
Reecius wrote: Well played, guys! Glad you kicked ass and represented for us here on the West Coast!
I am also glad we were able to get some of those Crons painted for you, Jim!
Thanks.
And good job on the models. They came out well.
@Thread
Guys, if you don't have time to paint your models and are looking to commission someone to do it, I'd recommend Reecius' company, Frontline Gaming. They do a great job at very reasonable prices. I use them for all my commission paint jobs. For more info, you can hit them up at:
Jy2, as to the Reserves question your opponent played it right.
Its not mentioned on pg124, in fact 124 leads you to believe that you would count those units seperately.
Pg36 offers an exclusion for any unit embarded upon a unit that must arrive via deepstrike.
The FAQ extended that exemption to flyers. So long as the units are embarked upon the SRs they do not count for the Reserves Calculation. So he had 4 units deployed and 4 units held in Reserve. Perfectly legal.
jy2 wrote: Yes, it's against RAW, but the ATC ruled it that flyers can take/contest objectives (measured horizontally from any part of the hull only) as long as they are scoring. Thus, any type of flyers that are scoring can take objectives, not just the heldrakes.
I see this come up quite a bit. I have never seen a rule that says Flyers cannot control Objectives in Scouring/BGNT. Generally it will be quite difficult as most objectives are on the ground and Flyers are never within 3" of the ground.
hyv3mynd wrote: The counter-raw ruling was that the measurement ignored the height component for measuring to flyers. Not the scoring aspect.
Effectively allowing some flyers with no hull point within 3" to the table to score objectives they never would be able to with normal RAW.
Sorry I wasn't more clear, but hyv3mynd got it right.
The ATC houserule is that you don't have to count the vertical measurement from the flyer to the objective, just the horizontal measurement.
I mentioned "if they were scoring" to differentiate the Scouring/BGNT flyers from the night scythes.
So that meant the stormraven had a huge body (possibly a 1-ft diameter) for contesting/claiming objectives.
tuiman wrote: Looking forward to game 2 and how you approach to fight off the ravens.
Good to see you playing draigowing again jy2
Thanks.
I felt that my wraithwing necrons would probably do better in this type of environment, but opted to go for Draigowing because I wanted to give my knights a chance in 6th Ed. competitive play.
Zagman wrote: Jy2, as to the Reserves question your opponent played it right.
Its not mentioned on pg124, in fact 124 leads you to believe that you would count those units seperately.
Pg36 offers an exclusion for any unit embarded upon a unit that must arrive via deepstrike.
The FAQ extended that exemption to flyers. So long as the units are embarked upon the SRs they do not count for the Reserves Calculation. So he had 4 units deployed and 4 units held in Reserve. Perfectly legal.
Enjoying the Batreps, keep them coming!
So I checked out the FAQ's:
Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in
reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in
Reserves? For example, must I count the units in a Drop Pod or
Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves? (p124) A: No.
Ah man so far everything is going perfect for your opponent in game 2 , I have no idea how your going to pull threw. Can't wait to see what kind of damage your necron lord can do.
Thanks jy2. I have my first ETC format tournament coming up in November. Thanks for your insights concerning match-up strategies and the like. My entire team consists of ETC Virgins, so while we expect to be pounded, we might now be pounded a little less.
SkaredCast wrote: Just comes to show. Its not the list that wins you games. Well done against the ravens!
No it's not the list, its the dice. Jim made 22 of 24 3+ saves at a crucial time. The Ravens also didn't position to assault the Paladins away from Draigo. This is a case of lucky dice at the right time.
Personally I would have had Coteaz issue a challenge to Draigo in that combat. Force the invulnerable saves onto the 4++/5++'s. A great job by you to pull that win off!
I wouldn't call it a totally dominating win rather than Draigp tanking all those wounds to sell himself for his boys. That said you played it right and won the game in the second half with a bad matchup. Very impressive win! : )
I think the mis-play was hovering the ravens too early and dropping down to assault. He played his reserves right and established air superiority, why not wait longer until all mind strikes are used for max attrition. The assassins had ap2 and crusaders had 3++, but they're still inferior to paladins and I think going right at them was just feeding kill points.
Well played. Goes to show how much a luck streak can swing a game. I wish I could experience something like that one day. My last 4 tourney's I've had the coldest dice ever, and it's so unbelievably frustrating.
Actually the dice were not that hot. He statistically should have averaged ~3.5 unsaved wounds. This probably would have been okay as he could have shifted 1 or 2 wounds off onto a paladin with little effect on the game. The paladins were crazy resilient. Draigo is just ridiculous for tanking wounds with EW, his 3++ and 5+ FnP from an apothecary.
VeteranSgt.Ryokai wrote: Ah man so far everything is going perfect for your opponent in game 2 , I have no idea how your going to pull threw. Can't wait to see what kind of damage your necron lord can do.
I'm happy to say that he (my Necron Overlord) did quite well this game.
LeadLegion wrote: Thanks jy2. I have my first ETC format tournament coming up in November. Thanks for your insights concerning match-up strategies and the like. My entire team consists of ETC Virgins, so while we expect to be pounded, we might now be pounded a little less.
You're welcome. Glad to have helped.
I really like this team format, which was one of the reasons why I chose to spend all that money to go. I hope that my reports will encourage more people to give it a try. If more people like it and go, then there will probably be more of these types of tournaments. That would be a good thing.
SkaredCast wrote: Just comes to show. Its not the list that wins you games. Well done against the ravens!
Thanks! And of course, it never hurts to have a little luck on your side.
SkaredCast wrote: Just comes to show. Its not the list that wins you games. Well done against the ravens!
No it's not the list, its the dice. Jim made 22 of 24 3+ saves at a crucial time. The Ravens also didn't position to assault the Paladins away from Draigo. This is a case of lucky dice at the right time.
Yeah, the dice definitely did play a part in my win. BTW, it wasn't just Draigo making saves. The Apothecary also played a large role in him tanking all those wounds.
Unfortunately, because he went after my scythes, that was the best he could do with his ravens. His other alternative would have been to continue flying and have both ravens go after my 1 dread or to fly off the board.
somerandomdude wrote: Personally I would have had Coteaz issue a challenge to Draigo in that combat. Force the invulnerable saves onto the 4++/5++'s. A great job by you to pull that win off!
Yeah, I would have done the same. However, initially, he couldn't because Coteaz was too far away (he had him in the rear of the unit) to issue he challenge. On the 2nd round of combat, he could have, but instead decided to use Coteaz to tank my non-hammer wounds. That actually turned out quite well for him as it probably saved 3-4 of his deathcults.
Dozer Blades wrote: I wouldn't call it a totally dominating win rather than Draigp tanking all those wounds to sell himself for his boys. That said you played it right and won the game in the second half with a bad matchup. Very impressive win! : )
Thanks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hyv3mynd wrote: I think the mis-play was hovering the ravens too early and dropping down to assault. He played his reserves right and established air superiority, why not wait longer until all mind strikes are used for max attrition. The assassins had ap2 and crusaders had 3++, but they're still inferior to paladins and I think going right at them was just feeding kill points.
Good job securing the win.
It's hard to say. In theory, I agree with you and would have tried to keep my birdies flying a little longer. However, had he done that in our game, because of the way his ravens were positioned and the restrictions to their movement while flying, he wouldn't have been able to go after my paladins. His only other course of action was to go after my 1 dread (if he was still alive) or to fly off the board. If he had gone after the dread, then he risked my paladins shooting down his birdie (with Prescience and Perfect Timing) and then losing a lot of his guys in the explosion. Thus, he opted to go after my paladins with everything instead. It's a tough call and he did what he thought was best at the time.
djones520 wrote: Well played. Goes to show how much a luck streak can swing a game. I wish I could experience something like that one day. My last 4 tourney's I've had the coldest dice ever, and it's so unbelievably frustrating.
In my last tournament, I had horrible luck (and my opponent great luck) and lost a game I could have won. This is karma.
Though I've still got 4 games to go.....
ansacs wrote: Actually the dice were not that hot. He statistically should have averaged ~3.5 unsaved wounds. This probably would have been okay as he could have shifted 1 or 2 wounds off onto a paladin with little effect on the game. The paladins were crazy resilient. Draigo is just ridiculous for tanking wounds with EW, his 3++ and 5+ FnP from an apothecary.
Dice was definitely above-average, though I would say my play was solid as well. If you don't get your units in the right positions to make the right plays at the right times and with the right target priorities, then even with good dice, you can still lose. However, a combination of both good play and good dice is hard to beat.
olliswe wrote: How the could half of his unit survive after their Raven blew up? Did you roll an insane amount of 1´s or what?
The entire unit had Invuln saves. Crusaders are 3++ due to their stormshields and the deathcults have a 5++ because they are so fast....like that matters when you're stuck in a plane in the air that explodes (yeah, try dodging that).
So JY, can you just give us a run down of your opponents for the next 4 games? Something else for us to chew on while we have to wait for your write ups?
Zagman wrote: Very impressive win. I honestly did not expect that and I don't think you did either. Congrats.
Thanks. Yeah, it was a pleasant surprise. I actually thought I would lose the main battle with his deathcults and consequently, the game. When I managed to win that combat on Turn 3, I knew I had a chance to win the game.
djones520 wrote: So JY, can you just give us a run down of your opponents for the next 4 games? Something else for us to chew on while we have to wait for your write ups?
Sure. My next 4 opponents included 3 IG's and 1 Chaos:
Oh man, as an IG player I'm really hyped for these coming battle reports. I notice that you never fought any Eldar, and only one Tau allied detachment. Was that an intentional decision by your team?
Talore wrote: Oh man, as an IG player I'm really hyped for these coming battle reports. I notice that you never fought any Eldar, and only one Tau allied detachment. Was that an intentional decision by your team?
I am also looking forward to the IG reports, it's gonna be good
We are currently sitting on top after 2 rounds with 258 BP's....or so we thought. Though we didn't know it at the time, it turns out that our opponents coming into this round are actually tied with us for 1st at 258 BP's as well! They murdered their last opponents and got the highest total for that round - 143-pts. This time, I was the sacrificial army as I "volunteered" to be thrown under the bus (I couldn't let my teammate Mike take all the fun ). Who stepped up to the plate? Jason and his Chaos Imperial Guards.
The rest of the matchups looked like this:
Kevin: Iyanden Eldar (2 Farseers, 3 Wraithknights (1 is Warlord), 2 Wave Serpents & 3x9 Jetbikes)
Bill: CSM + Daemons (Black Mace DP, 3 Heldrakes, Oblits, Lord of Change, Tzeentch DP)
Brandon: NecrOrks (Destroyer Lord, 11 Wraiths, 3 Flyers, 3 Annihilation Barges, Ghazghkull + Boys in Battlewagon)
Mike: Tau (Aun'Va, Commander, 3 Riptides, 4x12 Fire Warriors, 2x3 Broadsides, Sniper Drone team)
2000 Jason's Imperial Guards + Chaos Space Marines
This was a weird combination. IG with Chaos? I'm not really to big on that combo, but I guess I'll find out soon enough just how good it is. All the 40K veterans out there knows that IG is still good. His list has the tools to really hurt mine with 9 TL-lascannons as well as S10 barrages that can snipe and double-out certain of my guys (like my Apothecary or my Warlord Coteaz). The Daemon Prince has the potential to really hurt my paladins, though I will definitely kill him if we get into assault. The damage he will do will depend if he gets Iron Arm or not. Then again, he's got units like the maulerfiend, heldrake and the colossus which I am really not all that concerned about. It's interesting to see how my opponent has taken maximum advantage of the 2 Scouring and 2 Big Gun missions with 4 Fast Attacks and 4 Heavy Support units each. I'll probably lose a lot of my paladins, but I think I've got what it takes to win this match.
Forgot my notes so not sure what psychic powers (and gifts) we both got, but you can assume I took Prescience. I will update this when I find my notes.
I believe we both got useless Warlord traits.
Jason's deployment. Naturally, his 4 flyers are in reserves, as are his cultists. Infantry squads blob-up.
My deployment. As my heavy supports are scoring already, I give my paladinstar Scout with Grand Strategy.
So I have deployed: Coteaz (Warlord), Draigo, paladins, 1 unit of warriors and my annihilation barge, or 5 units. In reserves are my Overlord, both dreads and the deepstriking soladin, or 4 units.
I don't try to seize (I almost never do) and we begin.
His DP casts his power and right off the bat, goes after my paladins. I believe he's got Iron Arm on, which is why he is so daring.
IG's lack of movement. Oh, the maulerfiend advances, but that's about it.
The manticore gives my opponent First Blood. He also gets 2 VP's for my AB because it is a heavy support.
I believe his colossus also manages to put 1W on one of my paladins.
VP's - IG: 2, NecroKnights: 0
NecroKnights 1
Spoiler:
After casting my powers, the paladinstar advances.
I manage to Ground his DP, causing 1W. The Grounding test then causes another 1W.
It's then off to assault. Both Draigo and the unit casts Hammerhand.
I kill off his DP before my hammers even get a chance to strike (thanks to Psyk-out grenades, his DP was striking at Init 1).
VP's - IG: 2, NecroKnights: 1
Imperial Guards 2
Spoiler:
2 vendettas and the heldrake comes in.
Without the DP there, his maulerfiend decides that discretion is the better part of valor (in other words, he retreats).
Helturkey's vector strike does no damage. He then flames my unit, which I Look-Out-Sir to my apothecary, who then proceeds to take 1W. Better him than my Warlord, I guess.
He then insta-kills 3 paladins with his shooting and puts 1W on my far-right psycannon with FRF!SRF! from his blob unit.
Finally, his manticore completely wipes out my warriors.
VP's - IG: 3, NecroKnights: 1
NecroKnights 2
Spoiler:
Only 1 night scythe comes in and it drops off my Overlord into my opponent's deployment zone.
Draigo uses Psychic Communion to bring both dreads in. Interceptor fire from his quad-guns take off 1 HP from one of my dreads.
My soladin comes in as well, deepstriking right in front of his blob squad.
Paladinstar moves.
Dreads take shots at one of his vendetta, forcing it to jink and taking off 1 HP.
Psycannons from my paladinstar takes off 1 HP from the heldrake as well.
Finally, tesla-shooting to the AV10 side of the manticore blows it up, giving me 2 VP's for killing a heavy support.
VP's - IG: 3, NecroKnights: 3
Imperial Guards 3
Spoiler:
The last vendetta comes in. It goes after my Overlord.
The rest of his flyers move around.
I make the mistake of moving both dreads together for his manticore. The manticore and 1 vendetta end up killing 1 dread and taking off 2 HP's from the other one. My opponent also gets +2 VP's for killing one of my heavy supports.
VP's - IG: 5, NecroKnights: 3
I believe it is the heldrake who takes out 1 paladin.
His vendetta tries to take out my soladin but only hits once and I make my 5++ Invuln save.
Finally, his last vendetta tries to take out my Overlord out in the open but manages only to strip off 2W from him. I believe his blob squad goes after one of my solo-units but I make my saves.
NecroKnights 3
Spoiler:
Time for some payback!
Night scythe goes after ?. Overlord goes after his other manticore.
My other night scythe comes in as well. Night scythe and paladins go after the vendetta/heldrake.
Dread goes after the 3rd vendetta.
Unfortunately in my excitement, I set up my night scythe just to get shot down by his quad-guns.
VP's - IG: 6, NecroKnights: 3
Paladins then shoot at his vendetta and immobilize it.
I remember now. My night scythe focus-fires on his veterans in the trenches and kills enough to force Morale, which they then fail and run off the table.
VP's - IG: 6, NecroKnights: 4
Dread takes off another 1 HP from his vendetta (1 HP remaining).
What I can't get from shooting, I will get from assault.
Another one bites the dust.
VP's - IG: 6, NecroKnights: 6
Imperial Guards 4
Spoiler:
So far, it's been a grudge match. I may be slightly ahead, but I'm having problems downing his flyers. On the other hand, I've lost a lot of my paladins and will probably lose all my heavy supports this turn.
Cultists finally comes in on the far-left corner (where my opponent has placed a Crusade objective).
Marbo, whom I completely forget about (even when writing this report!), comes in as well, though he scatters back a little.
Vendetta goes after my dread. It's almost a guaranteed kill for it.
Yup, it does.
VP's - IG: 8, NecroKnights: 6
Marbo's demolition blast kills 2 of my paladins after Coteaz Look-Out-Sirs to them. One of the deceased includes my Apothecary/Brotherhood Banner paladin.
Other shooting (probably from his colossus) puts another 1W on one of my paladins.
Lastly, his vendetta, which went into Hovering mode this turn, shoots down my Necron Overlord. Luckily for me, my Overlord gets back up.
NecroKnights 4
Spoiler:
Night scythe goes after his cultists.
I shoot down 3 but they pass Morale.
My paladinstar goes and f*cks up Marbo.
VP's - IG: 8, NecroKnights: 7
I'm going to get a lot of VP's this turn. Both my soladin and Overlord assaults. One goes after the stationary colossus. The other the hovering vendetta.
Vendetta down....
VP's - IG: 8, NecroKnights: 8
....and colossus up (in smokes)!
VP's - IG: 8, NecroKnights: 10
Imperial Guards 5
Spoiler:
Vendetta comes in from Ongoing Reserves and goes after my soladin.
Heldrake goes after....I'm not sure.
I remember now. Heldrake vector-strikes my last flyer and manages to immobilize it. Cultists move onto the objective.
Vendetta shoots down my soladin.
VP's - IG: 9, NecroKnights: 10
Platoon command squad issues FRF!SRF! on the blob squad but they still cannot take down my Overlord.
Vendetta goes into hovering mode and fires at my dwindling paladinstar (only 3 paladins left + Draigo and Warlord Coteaz). Draigo tanks all the shots.
Heldrake does manage to kill off my warding stave.
Last but not least, his maulerfiend runs to contest my Emperor's Will objective. Actually, he may be claiming it since he is a heavy support.
NecroKnights 5
Spoiler:
I think I've got this game in the bag.
Overlord goes after his PCS. I am also contesting his Emperor's Will objective.
My night scythe drops off my warriors to contest his Crusade objective.
Paladinstar moves such that they are claiming both the Crusade and my Emperor's Will objective.
ATC house-rules are that 1 unit cannot claim more than 1 Crusade objective but they can claim both a Crusade and the Emperor's Will objective at the same time. So currently, my paladins have got both the orange (Crusade) and the blue (Emperor's Will) objectives.
Warriors fire at his cultists out in the open. They go-to-ground and I only manage to kill 1. What the heck?!?
I decide to assault the maulerfiend. Psyk-out grenades reduces it to Init 1....
....and because it is a daemon, Draigo finishes it off with his S10 sword.
VP's - IG: 9, NecroKnights: 12
Lastly, I assault his PCS with my Overlord. They then proceed to kill him in assault!!! My opponent then consolidates poorly (I believe 1" only).
Unfortunately for my opponent, my Overlord gets up yet again, thus denying my opponent of his Emperor's Will objective!
We then roll to see if the game continues and it doesn't. Game over.
I do, however, have his Emperor's Will objective contested.
I take Emperor's Will 1-0. Unfortunately, my paladinstar couldn't consolidate far enough to take the Crusade objective as well.
My opponent gets First Blood (annihilation barge). I get Linebreaker (my Overlord). Neither of us gets Warlord (so for that, we each get 1 VP for a draw on Warlord).
Thus, my NecroKnights take it 19-11. However, we both miscounted and reported the score as 21-9 to me.
Minor Victory by the Draicronic Measures NecroKnights!!!
That was a tough game, but I'm glad I got the V. I just couldn't take down his flyers! At the end, I was debating on whether I should have gone after his maulerfiend or not. My paladins were already on both my Emperor's Will and 1 Crusade objective. However, the maulerfiend was most likely contesting my Emperor's Will objective and I wasn't really sure how far ahead I was in Purge the Alien. So I took a gamble and went after his maulerfiend. I was hoping for a better consolidation (a 5-6" consolidation would have gotten me back to claiming both objectives) but only consolidated about 3" after combat.
But what won me the game was my clear-cut MVP of the game - my Necron Overlord. He killed 2 manticores and 1 vendetta. He also got me Linebreaker, but most importantly, he came back from the dead not once, but twice, to rob my opponent of his Emperor's Will objective. Had he not gotten back up, my opponent would have tied me on Emperor's Will, tied me on the Primary scenarios and beaten me on Secondaries for a 16-14 win. What a difference 1 getting-back-up-from-the-grave can make.
As for the rest of my team, Bill kicked a$$ with his semi-mirror-match game, getting a maximum 30-pts this round. Brandon also did very well against his NecrOrk opponent, just missing out on a perfect score by First Blood. Kevin did the same as I with 21-pts in what was actually a very close game that also came down to 1 die roll on the very last turn (just like in my game). Mike, well, he had a little trouble with his super-tough Tau opponent, but at least he managed to scrap up some points for our team. In the ended, we end up beating our opponents 108-42. That's impressive, considering our last 2 opponents were 2nd and tied-for-1st coming into these games.
Our opponents, Four Horseman and a Monkey, would end the tournament in 5th place.
tbh, I would not be very concerned to play this,
good spacing is what will win, manticores are S10 but not ap2 so your palladins only die on a 1.
Psycannons and Dreads can take out those vendetta's and or manticores.
Wouldn't you split up the pally squad and Deepstrike 5 of them, he has no hth to threathen them? maybe the prince, but that is still not a given...
Valek wrote: tbh, I would not be very concerned to play this,
good spacing is what will win, manticores are S10 but not ap2 so your palladins only die on a 1.
Psycannons and Dreads can take out those vendetta's and or manticores.
Wouldn't you split up the pally squad and Deepstrike 5 of them, he has no hth to threathen them? maybe the prince, but that is still not a given...
I wouldn't split up my pally squad. The last time I did so against IG, it didn't end very well for me. I need them together for unit-wide FNP and Prescience, which is how I will take down his flyers. Also, the DP may just be able to kill the 5-man pally combat squad without Draigo in it.
I'm not too concerned about threatening his backfield with my pallies. That's what my Overlord and soladin is for. Instead, my objective for my pallies is to hold the middle, where I will place most of my objectives, and kill anything that comes close. Soladin and Overlord (and even my warriors too if necessary) will go and contest the enemy objectives. With just a 20-man blob squad with no special weapons, I really don't have much to fear back there.
So you will play very conservatively, in my experience guard crumble when you get into hth with them;
the DP will normally not take out the combatsquad, if you split the champ and the wardingstave to 1 part and draigo and the pally into the other, you can keep him bogged in both units without much issue...
But i understand why you want to keep the unit in one. It makes a much bigger threath to fall for.
Valek wrote: So you will play very conservatively, in my experience guard crumble when you get into hth with them;
the DP will normally not take out the combatsquad, if you split the champ and the wardingstave to 1 part and draigo and the pally into the other, you can keep him bogged in both units without much issue...
But i understand why you want to keep the unit in one. It makes a much bigger threath to fall for.
I felt that I needed a resilient force to hold my own Crusade and Emperor's Will objectives. Had I gone after his guardsmen aggressively, he could have just hovered his flyers and killed whichever of my units tried to grab my own objectives. And with proper screening techniques, he could have actually prevented me from reaching his objectives even had I managed to kill off his guardsmen, a task that isn't all that easy with a Lord Commissar in the unit.
No, I felt that holding my own objectives and trying to contest his was the safer play.
Wow, I cant believe he just sacrificed his Dprince like that! He's got a "defensive" shooting army and he simply flies towards 10 paladins with draigo! Thats one ambitious Daemon Prince..
Also dont understand that he parked those vendetta's right in front of your paladins (turn 2). Lascannons are still 48 inch, right?
Jim, I think your opponenet was slightly ahead in the first few rounds, being that your anni barge is heavy support and was first blood and a kill point?
Wow, I cant believe he just sacrificed his Dprince like that! He's got a "defensive" shooting army and he simply flies towards 10 paladins with draigo! Thats one ambitious Daemon Prince..
Also dont understand that he parked those vendetta's right in front of your paladins (turn 2). Lascannons are still 48 inch, right?
great report! keep them coming!
It was a bold move of my opponent to do. It is also actually a good gamble on his part. I've only got 3 units on the table to try to ground him. My opponent then blew up my AB so I've only got 2 units to ground him. If I had failed, then he would have been in a prime position to do a lot of damage to me next turn, not only with his DP, but with his maulerfiend as well. If both of them get the charge off, he could potentially kill a lot of my paladins (since my warding stave would have been out of range to tank shots on the 1st turn of assault due to being too far away). So his gamble was that my limited shooting wouldn't be enough to ground his FMC. Unfortunately for him, it did.
As for his vendettas, I believe he only moved 18" with them. Perhaps he was anticipating where my dreads/flyers were going to come in. Don't know for sure.
olliswe wrote: Great report, and remember to use Coteaz' I've been expecting you next time Marbo shows up
Whoops! My bad.
MarkyMark wrote: Jim, I think your opponenet was slightly ahead in the first few rounds, being that your anni barge is heavy support and was first blood and a kill point?
Whoops! My bad. Let me go back and correct the score.
Whoops! didnt change the final outcome so wasnt a issue, he did give you a run for your money though, more then most people would have though from looking at his list versus yours.
Was this the most you have lost from your palastar in the tourny?.
Thanks for those battle reports, great at-work entertainment!
There are a number of situation in the match were flyers are right in front of the units they shoot at. I am interested if you are applying the 45° vertical fire arc rule.
It greatly improves the manoverability of flyers if that rule is not applied.
Wow, I cant believe he just sacrificed his Dprince like that! He's got a "defensive" shooting army and he simply flies towards 10 paladins with draigo! Thats one ambitious Daemon Prince..
Also dont understand that he parked those vendetta's right in front of your paladins (turn 2). Lascannons are still 48 inch, right?
great report! keep them coming!
It was a bold move of my opponent to do. It is also actually a good gamble on his part. I've only got 3 units on the table to try to ground him. My opponent then blew up my AB so I've only got 2 units to ground him. If I had failed, then he would have been in a prime position to do a lot of damage to me next turn, not only with his DP, but with his maulerfiend as well. If both of them get the charge off, he could potentially kill a lot of my paladins (since my warding stave would have been out of range to tank shots on the 1st turn of assault due to being too far away). So his gamble was that my limited shooting wouldn't be enough to ground his FMC. Unfortunately for him, it did.
Apart from the fact that its very likely he would get grounded (3 units shooting) still no reason to fly so close. He was better of flying behind the church or use a flat out (+2d6) to get in the woods (I believe he only moved about 24 inch). Paladins charging true terrain would really limit their range. But if the Barge or necron warriors would have grounded him he would still die true psycannons fire.
Wow, awful play by your opponent.
He uses interceptor fire on a dread when a NS flies right next to his quad gun.
Doesn't use his blob to tie up your overlord all game.
Wastes Vendetta fire on the overlord even though statistically he won't kill him with it and their are fliers near by.
Then proceeds to leave his colossus stationary near a solodin in order to fire a S6 blast at palidins? For real?
He also popped his fliers into hover mode right in front of units that could wreck him, at best to trade kill points when he should have saved them for scoring or contesting given the horrid ATC house rule.
This is all ignoring that terrible move T1 with his DP. You can call it good/bold strategy all you want, but it's bad play to start a game off with an unnecessary Hail Mary. I would have kept him central out of LOS using the cathedral. Having a counter assault unit for your overlord or solodins was much more important.
Had your opponent played smart at almost any point I think he would have at worst tied this. Good work on your part capitalizing on his errors though
jy2 wrote: That was a tough game, but I'm glad I got the V. I just couldn't take down his flyers! At the end, I was debating on whether I should have gone after his maulerfiend or not. My paladins were already on both my Emperor's Will and 1 Crusade objective. However, the maulerfiend was most likely contesting my Emperor's Will objective and I wasn't really sure how far ahead I was in Purge the Alien. So I took a gamble and went after his maulerfiend. I was hoping for a better consolidation (a 5-6" consolidation would have gotten me back to claiming both objectives) but only consolidated about 3" after combat.
Might have been a good idea in hindsight to split off Draigo and send him after the Mauler, given that he probably had a good chance to consolidate back into coherency anyway, plus the Vendettas were pretty much taken care of.
I love following these bat reps! Really glad to see this IG/CSM list do so good even at a loss. It's always great to see uncommon lists, as for your army, that overlord just wouldn't let you down! He was a champ in that game!
Well played again and some more of your patented good luck. I think your opponent didn't play it right with his DP which was his real heavy hitter for close combat.
MarkyMark wrote: Whoops! didnt change the final outcome so wasnt a issue, he did give you a run for your money though, more then most people would have though from looking at his list versus yours.
Was this the most you have lost from your palastar in the tourny?.
IG is actually one of the armies that can really scare a Draigowing army. 3 vendettas who can come in and avoid the tanking Draigo can easily insta-gib my paladins. Then the manticores will kill paladins through Volume-of-S10-fire even with their 2+ saves. And while normally, meltavets/plasmavets can put the hurt on, the Black Mace DP and Maulerfiend are no slouch at killing paladins if only he could've pulled off the charge. IG really does have the tools to mess up Draigowing.
There is 1 other game in which I lost a lot of paladins. It may be about equal between this game and that.
Apart from the fact that its very likely he would get grounded (3 units shooting) still no reason to fly so close. He was better of flying behind the church or use a flat out (+2d6) to get in the woods (I believe he only moved about 24 inch). Paladins charging true terrain would really limit their range. But if the Barge or necron warriors would have grounded him he would still die true psycannons fire.
ah well, it all looks so easy afterwards...
Yeah, his aggressive move took me by surprise as well. If I were playing his army, I wouldn't have played it that way.
But I can see why he took the gamble.
Aleinikov wrote: Thanks for those battle reports, great at-work entertainment!
There are a number of situation in the match were flyers are right in front of the units they shoot at. I am interested if you are applying the 45° vertical fire arc rule.
It greatly improves the manoverability of flyers if that rule is not applied.
The ATCFAQ gave flyers a 180 degree vertical arc (just like the Bay Area Open did).
I swear, flyers had all the advantages in this tournament. No wonder why there were so many of them.
Red Corsair wrote: Wow, awful play by your opponent.
He uses interceptor fire on a dread when a NS flies right next to his quad gun.
Doesn't use his blob to tie up your overlord all game.
Wastes Vendetta fire on the overlord even though statistically he won't kill him with it and their are fliers near by.
Then proceeds to leave his colossus stationary near a solodin in order to fire a S6 blast at palidins? For real?
He also popped his fliers into hover mode right in front of units that could wreck him, at best to trade kill points when he should have saved them for scoring or contesting given the horrid ATC house rule.
This is all ignoring that terrible move T1 with his DP. You can call it good/bold strategy all you want, but it's bad play to start a game off with an unnecessary Hail Mary. I would have kept him central out of LOS using the cathedral. Having a counter assault unit for your overlord or solodins was much more important.
Had your opponent played smart at almost any point I think he would have at worst tied this. Good work on your part capitalizing on his errors though
Hey, I'm not going to complain about the way he played.
Truth is, I made some mistakes myself. I'm just glad he made more.
Godless-Mimicry wrote: Might have been a good idea in hindsight to split off Draigo and send him after the Mauler, given that he probably had a good chance to consolidate back into coherency anyway, plus the Vendettas were pretty much taken care of.
I had actually considered that, but my concern was....what if Draigo was not enough to kill him? He's worth 2 VP's because he's a heavy support and currently, he is claiming/contesting my Emperor's Will objective.
I wanted the added insurance of my hammerdins to make sure I killed his maulerfiend.
Solosam47 wrote: I love following these bat reps! Really glad to see this IG/CSM list do so good even at a loss. It's always great to see uncommon lists, as for your army, that overlord just wouldn't let you down! He was a champ in that game!
IG are still a very good tournament army IMO. Fighting against triple-vendetta IG is never easy.
The Overlord can be a stud if played correctly. He was a champ both in this game and my last. In game 1, although he came in late, he did break a unit of CSM on my objective. He probably could have done more had he came in earlier. For those who think he is just a "tax" to get some necron flyers into your army, think again. He is an excellent disruption unit.
pretre wrote: Good reports. The vendetta-copter is a cool idea, but no guns/WYSIWYG makes me a sad panda.
I liked the direction he was heading with his conversion. I'm pretty easy on fully WYSIWYG armies. The rest of his army was nice and you could tell that he was putting the work into the conversion, so for me, it wasn't a big deal.
Dozer Blades wrote: Well played again and some more of your patented good luck. I think your opponent didn't play it right with his DP which was his real heavy hitter for close combat.
Thanks and agreed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shandara wrote: Very nice game, but I still can't get around him charging his DP just straight ahead. I wonder what he was trying to accomplish.
Maybe it was psychological? Sometimes, you make a move that is so counter-intuitive that it may throw off your opponent.
I just don't fall for that type of stuff, however, assuming he was playing mind-games.
Nah, don't know why he did it, other than to say that he took a gamble which had some potential but it just didn't work out for him.
Shandara wrote: Very nice game, but I still can't get around him charging his DP just straight ahead. I wonder what he was trying to accomplish.
Maybe it was psychological? Sometimes, you make a move that is so counter-intuitive that it may throw off your opponent.
I just don't fall for that type of stuff, however, assuming he was playing mind-games.
Nah, don't know why he did it, other than to say that he took a gamble which had some potential but it just didn't work out for him.
I did the same thing with a Flyrant in our practice game; worked out pretty well for me, actually. Of course, I had waves & waves of Tyranids about to assault you as well; he...didn't.
Red Corsair wrote: He also popped his fliers into hover mode right in front of units that could wreck him, at best to trade kill points when he should have saved them for scoring or contesting given the horrid ATC house rule.
This was a "Big Guns"-like mission; none of the CSM/IG flyers were scoring.
Your opponent played this game terribly. I'm still trying to figure out why his blob squad just sat by and let the overlord go on a rampage.
His T1 DP tactic makes me want to cry.
Shandara wrote: Very nice game, but I still can't get around him charging his DP just straight ahead. I wonder what he was trying to accomplish.
Maybe it was psychological? Sometimes, you make a move that is so counter-intuitive that it may throw off your opponent.
I just don't fall for that type of stuff, however, assuming he was playing mind-games.
Nah, don't know why he did it, other than to say that he took a gamble which had some potential but it just didn't work out for him.
I did the same thing with a Flyrant in our practice game; worked out pretty well for me, actually. Of course, I had waves & waves of Tyranids about to assault you as well; he...didn't.
Yeah, that was exactly what I was thinking when he pulled that move. In the case of our game, I failed to ground your flyrant but I'm glad that was only practice and this was the real deal.
Red Corsair wrote: He also popped his fliers into hover mode right in front of units that could wreck him, at best to trade kill points when he should have saved them for scoring or contesting given the horrid ATC house rule.
This was a "Big Guns"-like mission; none of the CSM/IG flyers were scoring.
Actually, what he did in the end was a very crafty move. He was trying to bait me into assaulting his vendetta. This, of course, would have taken me off my objectives in the attempt to kill a unit that was rather inconsequential (i.e. non-scoring).
As for going into hovering mode to shoot down my Overlord, he had a 2/3 chance of making that play look like genius.
herpguy wrote: Your opponent played this game terribly. I'm still trying to figure out why his blob squad just sat by and let the overlord go on a rampage.
His T1 DP tactic makes me want to cry.
They didn't just sit there, though they were on an objective. They were actually firing every turn and ususally with FRF!SRF! from the PCS. However, it's not easy to kill my Overlord when you are wounding on 6's (thanks to T5) and I have a 2+ save. My Overlord was already contesting his EW objective. Assaulting him would not guarantee that he could kill off my Overlord on the objective. However, it would have pulled him off of his Crusade objective by doing so.
Second the Bunker Buster Overlord. Reminds me how I used to use my Mega armored warboss. Like a bowling ball dropping out of a Truckk.
Do you think Justicar Thawn and 4 tem nubs out of a storm raven would also work? Unlike the overlord, they can score and contest + Thawn keeps getting back up.
DarthDiggler wrote: I am impressed with the utility and efficiently of the Overlord as a bunker buster bomb.
Yeah, he is my main solution to those MSU units hiding away on some far, hidden objective as well as my Linebreaker guy.
Would get a Destroyer Lord if I could afford it. He's even better.
Chubs wrote: Second the Bunker Buster Overlord. Reminds me how I used to use my Mega armored warboss. Like a bowling ball dropping out of a Truckk.
Do you think Justicar Thawn and 4 tem nubs out of a storm raven would also work? Unlike the overlord, they can score and contest + Thawn keeps getting back up.
Thawn + terminators out of a stormraven is expensive. Bringing in the Overlord with 2 necron flyers is more cost-effective and also more flexible IMO (they can split up into 3 different locations).
Though I just may have to revisit Thawn. It's been ages since I last used him.
After 3 rounds, we are currently enjoying 1st with a comfortable lead (at 366 BP's). Our 2nd place opponents, Endless Gaming out of North Carolina, are coming in at 323 BP's. However, they did manage to beat the defending champions, Wrecking BOLS, last round so they are quite dangerous. We can't let our guards down, but as long as we don' screw up too badly, I think we can maintain our lead for 1st. This round, I am the Attacker. We decided that I would matchup well against their Chaos player so when our opponents put him out as the Defender, I seized the opportunity.
The rest of the matchups looked like this:
Kevin: Grey Knights + Tau (Coteaz, Grandmaster, Purifers, mix of units, Tau Commander, Riptide, Broadsides)
I think I matchup well against this list. He doesn't have much shooting that can really hurt my paladins other than his oblits. I'm also not very concerned about his assault as well, though I do have to be careful not to get tarpitted by his zombies. 60 zombies can tie up even my paladinstar for quite a while, though he probably would have to leave his objective if he wanted to assault me. I'm also not too concerned about his deathmarks nor his heldrakes. As for the rest of the army, it is almost a mirror-match - disruption lord, 2 troops in flyers and 1 annihilation barge each. His Destroyer Lord does have a slight advantage over mine. The question is, does he know how to use him as effectively? We shall see.
I do have 1 major advantage over my Chaos opponent and that is I am going 2nd.
I advance as well. Paladins then run and AB goes flat-out.
I make a mistake here. I know that his oblits are deepstriking, yet I expose the rear of my AB for them to shoot at if they come in. That is due to my lack of practice with this army.
BTW, we are playing Mysterious Objectives. My blue Emperor's Will objective is Targeting Relay whereas the orange Crusade objective is Scatterfield.
Chaos Necrons 2
Spoiler:
As I expected, his oblits come on in. They are also within the rear arc of my AB.
Deathmarks with Destroyer Lord comes in as well.
Another night scythe comes in, as does his heldrake (actually, they both come in, though one of his converted "drakes" broke off of its base).
Zombies shamble forwards once again.
Oblits get through my 4+ flat-out cover and wrecks my AB for First Blood.
VP's - CSM: 1, NecroKnights: 0
Deathmarks get some rends and Precision shoots my apothecary, putting 1W on him.
NecroKnights 2
Spoiler:
1 scythe comes in (with my Necron Overlord).
My scoring dread comes in as well.
Coteaz casts his powers.
Knights go after the night scythe.
Dreads line up for the perfect kill shot and to get cover.
I shoot down the warrior's night scythe.
VP's - CSM: 1, NecroKnights: 1
I believe my paladins almost shoot down his other night scythe (2 HP's of damage).
Chaos Necrons 3
Spoiler:
His warriors come back in.
His last night scythe goes after mine. I believe the damaged scythe flies off the table.
Heldrake moves. 1 of them vector-strikes my paladins. The other my night scythe.
The combination of shooting from his night scythe and vector-strike from his heldrake takes off 2 HP's from my night scythe.
Typhus' zombies actually go after my paladins.
The Destroyer Lord splits off from the deathmarks.
I'm not sure how, but his oblits can see through the ruins to deny me my cover? They blow away my scoring dread.
VP's - CSM: 2, NecroKnights: 1
Deathmarks shoot at my paladins. I try to hide by Apothecary/Banner but apparently, my opponent could still see him. He prescision shoots him to death.
Damn those deathmarks and their Precision shots. They actually turn out to be quite effective, although the Apothecary is all they end up killing.
They also put 1W on my paladin.
Lastly, zombies attempt the charge through difficult terrain but fail.
NecroKnights 3
Spoiler:
Paladins prepare for the multi-charge.
Dread moves forwards. He is actually on the lower level of the ruins. He would then shoot at something but probably did no damage.
I opt not to shoot because I didn't want to take my own paladins out of assault range. I then multi-assault both deathmarks and zombies.
I kill a bunch of deathmarks and zombies. Would have been more had my Banner survived. Draigo kills his cultist champion in a challenge.
Typhus, on the other hand, is a boss. He wounds 3 of my paladins. I then fail all 3 Invuln's and he force weapons them to death!
However, his deathmarks break from combat.
Chaos Necrons 4
Spoiler:
Here we make a mistake. We miscalculated and thought his deathmarks needed Insane Courage to regroup. In any case, they continue falling back and would run off the table next turn.
VP's - CSM: 2, NecroKnights: 2
His other unit of zombies go to help out.
Crap. This is just what I feared. Without the banner, I'm going to have problems killing all those zombies.
At least his Emperor's Will and Crusade objective is going to be available to my warriors to claim.
His Destroyer Lord and AB advance.
Zombies make the assault.
As do his oblits (actually, I think I made the charge last turn, though we both whiffed in combat). They do 1 HP of damage to my dread this turn.
This turn, Draigo kills his other cultist champion in a challenge. Fortunately, my warding stave is there to absorb hits from Typhus (though he does die to Typhus). Unfortunately, I roll really bad in combat and kill just a few zombies.
NecroKnights 4
Spoiler:
Night scythe comes in and goes after his Destroyer Lord.
My other night scythe goes and drops off my Overlord to threaten his troops claiming both his EW and Crusade objective.
My night scythe then shoots down 4 warriors.
3 then gets back up.
We then go into combat. Draigo challenges Typhus (or perhaps it is the other way around). They whiff against each other. Paladins continue killing zombies.
Dread and oblits whiff against each other in combat once again.
Chaos Necrons 5
Spoiler:
Chaos movement. He disembarks his last unit of warriors and makes it to claiming range of my EW objective.
Along the way, his helturkey vector-strikes and takes down my night scythe.
Good, that is precisely what I was counting on....
VP's - CSM: 3, NecroKnights: 2
Shooting takes off 1 HP from my night scythe (after jinking).
His warriors run but he rolls low and can't make it to my Crusade objective as well. Remember, at the ATC, 1 unit of troops can claim both the EW's and Crusade objective at the same time, though they can't claim more than 1 Crusade objective at a time.
Oblits finally take out my dread.
VP's - CSM: 4, NecroKnights: 2
The paladin-zombie slapfight continues with boring results.
NecroKnights 5
Spoiler:
So currently, he's got me on VP's. He's also got 1 EW objective and 1 Crusade objective. However, that's all going to change this turn, or so I hope.
My other scythe goes and drops off my warriors onto his EW objective. My Overlord goes after his warriors.
Due to time, or rather, the lack of, I stopped taking picures at this point.
My other unit of warriors who were in the night scythe just walks on to claim my Crusade objective. They then run to contest my EW objective while claiming my Crusade objective as well.
Shooting by my night scythe takes his warriors out of claiming range of his Crusade objective. My Overlord then assaults them and wipes them out.
VP's - CSM: 4, NecroKnights: 3
My warriors then run to claim both his EW and Crusade objective.
Paladins finally finish off the zombies from the 1st unit.
VP's - CSM: 4, NecroKnights: 4
Currently, I've got EW 1-0. I've also got Crusade 2-0. He is actually beating me on VP's because somewhere in the game, he kills my soladin (5-4 for Chaos on VP's).
I desperately need for the game to end. If it does, I take it. If it doesn't, he can easily kill off my 5-man warrior unit and take the game.
We roll....and the game continues!
Chaos Necrons 6
Spoiler:
We are actually out of time, so we just speed-play through this turn.
He kills off my warriors with 2 heldrake vector strikes. His warriors then move to claim both my EW and Crusade objectives (we are now both tied in EW and Crusade with 1 objective each).
VP's - CSM: 6, NecroKnights: 4
NecroKnights 6
Spoiler:
Draigo finally insta-kills Typhus with his S10 sword. I get Slay the Warlord.
So we tie on both Emperor's Will and Crusade with 1 objective each (we both have 1 unit of warriors on both objectives). However, Mike takes Purge the Alien 6-5.
He got First Blood (annihilation barge). I've got Warlord. We've both got Linebreaker with our troops and more.
Chaos wins 19-11, though we miscalculated and reported it as 21-9 for Chaos.
My opponent played a very smart game. It seemed as if he knew exactly how to play against Draigowing. He inundated me with threats from all sides - deathmarks to my left, zombies + Typhus in the center and oblits to the right. That is exactly how you should play against certain armies like my slow deathstar army. Basically, he forced me to choose which units to go after. Go after his oblits and his zombies would claim the middle while his deathmarks keep pelting my paladins. Go after his deathmarks and his zombies would once again claim the middle while his oblits go and destroy all my tanks. I decided to go after his deathmarks because then I would be able to multi-charge both his deathmarks and his zombies and I would also be able to hold the middle.
However, several factors went against me:
1. Precision shots by his deathmarks to take out my Apothecary/banner. They rended (so he rolled 4 6's!) and I failed both 5++ invuln's and 5+ FNP's. Had he lived, I am pretty sure I could have wiped out his zombies and perhaps Typhus much earlier and maybe even get out of combat before his 2nd unit of zombies could charge in.
2. My rolling for my paladins were poor. I rolled way below average in combat against his zombies. More importantly, I was rolling poorly for their saves. Typhus killed 5-6 paladins because I didn't make a single 5++/4++ invuln against his attacks. Only my warding stave did, but he still died in 1 turn of combat against Typhus. Typhus, on the other hand, survived 3-4 turns of combat against a Prescienced S10 Draigo where I did 3-4 Wounds each turn! It was because of my poor offense and Typhus' uncanny ability to kill my paladins why I couldn't break free from his zombies.
3. I played my annihilation barge poorly. I knew he was going to deep-strike his oblits and probably go after my AB. Yet I still kept it on the peripheral of Coteaz' I've Been Expecting You's bubble of deepstrike protection. Moreover, I stuck out its ass for my opponent to shoot down. Had I been thinking clearly (this is, after all, our 4th game of the day), I should have kept it much closer to Coteaz and without its rear exposed. Anyways, not only did I give up First Blood, but more importantly, I gave up a unit that was supposed to help me bring down his flyers.
4. His zombies were too far. Charging them actually pulled my paladins off of my central objectives. Of course I was aware of this, but I also was anticipating killing them and then consolidating back onto my objectives. That never happened as I was never able to get out of combat.
Despite those factors, I almost won the game. If the game had ended on Turn 5, I would have had both Emperor's Will and Crusade due to a huge mistake by my opponent. I needed for Mike to shoot down my night scythe so that my troops could just walk on in from my board edge onto my Crusade and Emperor's Will objective....and that was exactly what he did. Sigh, I suppose I can't be lucky all the time.
Congrats to Mike for playing so well. Mike ended the tournament taking the award for Best Chaos Space Marines player.
As for how our team did overall, Kevin was still kicking butt. He scored the highest this turn with 28-pts. Bill did well also with 22-pts, however, Mike, Brandon and I all lost this round. Fortunately for us, individual win-loss records doesn't matter in the team format, only overall Battle Points do. Even though our opponents out-played us, we actually edged them out in Battle Points, winning 78-72 in a tight contest. So unless if the 3rd or 4th place teams won by a landslide, I think we should still be on top going into Round 5.
BTW, Endless Game would end their tournament run with a 4th place finish.
Coming up next.....Team Fluffy Bunnies go up against the 2-time defending champions, Team Wrecking BOLS! Stay tuned....
Now, that was a game of some serious play. Looks very well played from both sides. Sorry to hear about the loss, especially against a Defender army. But, I have a feeling it all works out in the end.
Seems to me like he took advantage of you with the shooting through ruins with no cover and seeing your apothecary. I can't tell if you are being passive aggressive, or made a mistake with movement and later found out while at the game that he was correct. The way you wrote it made it seem like you took his word for it.
Wow, these have been some interesting games. Lots of neat tactical plays by both sides (except for a couple of foolhardy moves by some of your opponents).
I'm a little curious about your choice of formation for the paladins. In the first three games you opted for a sort of "arrow" formation, hiding Coteaz and the apothecary in the rear-middle. It seemed like a fantastic formation for controlling the damage distribution against the paladins and for avoiding hits from Blast and Template weapons, though I'm not sure if there were other advantages you were going for as well.
In any case, you switched up formations for game 4, and I was wondering why you opted for the triangular block instead (was it just the CSM lack of shooting, or was there another reason?). Either way, you always seem to play them very carefully and it looks like it usually pays off really well - I was hoping you might provide some rules of thumb to use when deploying paladins or similar death-star units.
Please note, this suggestion probably wouldn't had have ANY impact on the game whatsoever, but...
In the close combat, I would have either A) accepted the Zombie challenge with Coteaz or B) refused the challenge altogether. This way, Draigo would be available to take wounds from Typhus with his 3++ and EW. It only works if the placement is appropriate though, which may not have been the case.
As someone who has used Typhus against a Draigo army, I am very, very happy when the opponent accepts a Zombie/Cultist/CSM challenge with Draigo.
Tbh, that guy played the game tactically to perfection, the only thing i' missing is what he did with the destroyer lord...
Tarpitting those pallies was huge, Typhus oh well guess it was just waiting untill Draigo killed him, he would never match 4 wounds ...
his helldrakes where doing what they needed also, some people really dismiss the vector strikes, they can suprise lone chars or small units, not mentioning the baleflamer though!!
Valek wrote: Tbh, that guy played the game tactically to perfection, the only thing i' missing is what he did with the destroyer lord...
Tarpitting those pallies was huge, Typhus oh well guess it was just waiting untill Draigo killed him, he would never match 4 wounds ...
his helldrakes where doing what they needed also, some people really dismiss the vector strikes, they can suprise lone chars or small units, not mentioning the baleflamer though!!
Vector Strikes on those things are ridiculous. I don't know why GW can let aircraft Jink lasers that move at the speed of light, but they can't get jink saves from giant flying dragons.
Valek wrote: Tbh, that guy played the game tactically to perfection, the only thing i' missing is what he did with the destroyer lord...
Tarpitting those pallies was huge, Typhus oh well guess it was just waiting untill Draigo killed him, he would never match 4 wounds ...
his helldrakes where doing what they needed also, some people really dismiss the vector strikes, they can suprise lone chars or small units, not mentioning the baleflamer though!!
Vector Strikes on those things are ridiculous. I don't know why GW can let aircraft Jink lasers that move at the speed of light, but they can't get jink saves from giant flying dragons.
Try dodging something that moves in a straight line along a barrel, and then try dodging something moving straight towards you that is just as maneuverable as you, if not more so.
Valek wrote: Tbh, that guy played the game tactically to perfection, the only thing i' missing is what he did with the destroyer lord...
Tarpitting those pallies was huge, Typhus oh well guess it was just waiting untill Draigo killed him, he would never match 4 wounds ...
his helldrakes where doing what they needed also, some people really dismiss the vector strikes, they can suprise lone chars or small units, not mentioning the baleflamer though!!
Vector Strikes on those things are ridiculous. I don't know why GW can let aircraft Jink lasers that move at the speed of light, but they can't get jink saves from giant flying dragons.
Vector strikes are huge on any FMC. I've taken down Flyrants with a double team in one go no problem. The AP3 is what's the killer. Still find it strange it strikes at S7 where every other FMC is S6. It's stronger than a Bloodthirster?
From what I have seen, the AB has contributed very little to your army. It seems to me to be nothing more than first-blood as it and your pallies are the only real targets turn 1. Even your the game against myself, the AB bit the dust right out of the gate.
Nevertheless, this looks like a really fun tourney and a great close game.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: From what I have seen, the AB has contributed very little to your army. It seems to me to be nothing more than first-blood as it and your pallies are the only real targets turn 1. Even your the game against myself, the AB bit the dust right out of the gate.
Nevertheless, this looks like a really fun tourney and a great close game.
It's a victim of it's own brokenness. Everyone knows how nasty they are, so they are going to be the #1 target.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: From what I have seen, the AB has contributed very little to your army. It seems to me to be nothing more than first-blood as it and your pallies are the only real targets turn 1. Even your the game against myself, the AB bit the dust right out of the gate.
Nevertheless, this looks like a really fun tourney and a great close game.
It's a victim of it's own brokenness. Everyone knows how nasty they are, so they are going to be the #1 target.
True, the AB is horrendously underpriced, but look at it from the opponents perspective. Which of the two units starting on the board are they going to dump their ML, lascannon, autocannon shots into? It becomes, in essence, a soft target in an army with only hard targets.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: From what I have seen, the AB has contributed very little to your army. It seems to me to be nothing more than first-blood as it and your pallies are the only real targets turn 1. Even your the game against myself, the AB bit the dust right out of the gate.
Nevertheless, this looks like a really fun tourney and a great close game.
It's a victim of it's own brokenness. Everyone knows how nasty they are, so they are going to be the #1 target.
True, the AB is horrendously underpriced, but look at it from the opponents perspective. Which of the two units starting on the board are they going to dump their ML, lascannon, autocannon shots into? It becomes, in essence, a soft target in an army with only hard targets.
Indeed. I imagine that finding a more effective use of those points would be hard though, i'm not 100% on those armies. JY is normally a lot smarter of a player in giving up free kills like that, I think this last game was probably showing a bit of fatigue from a long day.
The AB is one of the most point efficient units in the game, but I think that it is very out of place in this list. I think those point would be better served giving the suicide overlord an invulnerable save and perhaps another soloadin
I'll get to responding to the comments tomorrow. Thanks for your patience!
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, here's a preview of my next game....against Wrecking BOLS' Paul Murphy and his beautifully converted IG/SW army:
Overall army pics.
Manticores. He's got some bad-a$$ conversions.
Flight of the Valkyries....or vendettas.
Closeup of his vendetta.
The Main Event - my paladinstar against his nicely converted Space Wolves. Draigo versus Logan. Paladins versus Arjac and Wolfguard terminators with stormshields. Can you believe I failed a 3" charge against his wolfstar!!!
Tactical_Genius wrote: In game #3 you said Marbo scattered away slightly?
Marbo doesn't deep strike / scatter, he is just placed anywhere more than 1" away from any enemies.
If that's the case, then my bad. I could have been mistaken (or my opponent could have been mistaken as well) since I was recalling the battle from 3 weeks ago.
In any case, it was my bad....that I didn't blow him out of the ground with Coteaz's I've Been Expecting You.
He's got his game face on....though I suppose I've never seen how his normal face looks like.
Why so serious.....
Stormcrow wrote: Seems to me like he took advantage of you with the shooting through ruins with no cover and seeing your apothecary. I can't tell if you are being passive aggressive, or made a mistake with movement and later found out while at the game that he was correct. The way you wrote it made it seem like you took his word for it.
I was skeptical, but he was adamant that all 3 oblits could see more than 25% of my dread through the ruin windows so I just gave it to him. I tend to give my opponent(s) the benefit of the doubt unless his(their) actions warrant otherwise.
As for seeing my Apothecary, those things happen. You think you've hidden him well enough but if the opponent can see even his toes, then they can kill him.
Xca|iber wrote: Wow, these have been some interesting games. Lots of neat tactical plays by both sides (except for a couple of foolhardy moves by some of your opponents).
I'm a little curious about your choice of formation for the paladins. In the first three games you opted for a sort of "arrow" formation, hiding Coteaz and the apothecary in the rear-middle. It seemed like a fantastic formation for controlling the damage distribution against the paladins and for avoiding hits from Blast and Template weapons, though I'm not sure if there were other advantages you were going for as well.
In any case, you switched up formations for game 4, and I was wondering why you opted for the triangular block instead (was it just the CSM lack of shooting, or was there another reason?). Either way, you always seem to play them very carefully and it looks like it usually pays off really well - I was hoping you might provide some rules of thumb to use when deploying paladins or similar death-star units.
Great read overall, and fantastic reports!
I think I can write a tactica on the positioning of the paladins. Some may think Draigowing is blunt-force army that just plays itself. The truth is, Draigowing is more of a finesse army where you've got very limited resources and the devil is in the details with them. In a Draigowing force, even the positioning of the paladins is of paramount importance. In the series, mainly because of manticores (and plasma cannon oblits, IA riptides and mindstrike missiles), I've had to space out my paladins almost to their maximum coherency. This has the benefit of also widening their threat range but also the side effect of them being slower to react to positional threats.
In any case, normally I put Draigo in the front from where I think his main AP 1/2 firepower will be coming from. Then put the normal wargear paladins up front as well (but slightly behind Driago). 2nd wave of paladins will normally include the psycannons so that they are both protected but have more range to their shooting than if I were to put them in the rear. Finally, in the rear, I put the special equipment guys like the warding stave and Apothecary/banner along with my Warlord Coteaz.
How you position them will also depend on what types of army you face. If you face an army that isn't very shooty, you can place the psycannons in the front to maximize their range. If you play against an assaulty army with lots of AP2 in assault (i.e. monstrous creature spam), you'd want your Warding Stave near the front for his MC's to charge. Just be careful that you don't put him all the way in the front if your opponent has got decent shooting or insta-killing shots.
For my 1st game, I spread out my paladins in a line because of 1) his riptide and 2) his army was spread out as well. Games #2 & #3 I was forced to spread out due to his mindstrike missiles and manticores. When playing against these types of units, it is better to spread out in a line formation so that his large blast would only even hit at most 3 models even when it scatters. As for game #4, I wasn't as concerned about his shooting so kept my units more together in order to be able to better react to his threats no matter which direction they came in from.
One final note: when playing against barrage sniping (i.e. manticore IG), DO NOT place your Apothecary next to Coteaz. Thus, when your opponent tries to snipe out Coteaz, if you do a Look-Out-Sir, you're just going to kill your Apothecary!
I think I can write a tactica on the positioning of the paladins. Some may think Draigowing is blunt-force army that just plays itself. The truth is, Draigowing is more of a finesse army where you've got very limited resources and the devil is in the details with them. In a Draigowing force, even the positioning of the paladins is of paramount importance. In the series, mainly because of manticores (and plasma cannon oblits, IA riptides and mindstrike missiles), I've had to space out my paladins almost to their maximum coherency. This has the benefit of also widening their threat range but also the side effect of them being slower to react to positional threats.
In any case, normally I put Draigo in the front from where I think his main AP 1/2 firepower will be coming from. Then put the normal wargear paladins up front as well (but slightly behind Driago). 2nd wave of paladins will normally include the psycannons so that they are both protected but have more range to their shooting than if I were to put them in the rear. Finally, in the rear, I put the special equipment guys like the warding stave and Apothecary/banner along with my Warlord Coteaz.
How you position them will also depend on what types of army you face. If you face an army that isn't very shooty, you can place the psycannons in the front to maximize their range. If you play against an assaulty army with lots of AP2 in assault (i.e. monstrous creature spam), you'd want your Warding Stave near the front for his MC's to charge. Just be careful that you don't put him all the way in the front if your opponent has got decent shooting or insta-killing shots.
For my 1st game, I spread out my paladins in a line because of 1) his riptide and 2) his army was spread out as well. Games #2 & #3 I was forced to spread out due to his mindstrike missiles and manticores. When playing against these types of units, it is better to spread out in a line formation so that his large blast would only even hit at most 3 models even when it scatters. As for game #4, I wasn't as concerned about his shooting so kept my units more together in order to be able to better react to his threats no matter which direction they came in from.
One final note: when playing against barrage sniping (i.e. manticore IG), DO NOT place your Apothecary next to Coteaz. Thus, when your opponent tries to snipe out Coteaz, if you do a Look-Out-Sir, you're just going to kill your Apothecary!
I'd be interested in reading that tactica! In any case, thanks for the feedback. It's sometimes difficult to see exactly what a person is thinking from just batrep pictures, but you do such a good job of explaining each step. I've been hoping to get some paladins back into my lists and I think your advice is going to come in really handy for keeping them useful. Back when I started I had a tendency to just rush them forward but now hopefully I can use them a bit more intelligently. Thanks!
somerandomdude wrote: Please note, this suggestion probably wouldn't had have ANY impact on the game whatsoever, but...
In the close combat, I would have either A) accepted the Zombie challenge with Coteaz or B) refused the challenge altogether. This way, Draigo would be available to take wounds from Typhus with his 3++ and EW. It only works if the placement is appropriate though, which may not have been the case.
As someone who has used Typhus against a Draigo army, I am very, very happy when the opponent accepts a Zombie/Cultist/CSM challenge with Draigo.
Good advice.
I accepted the challenge with Draigo because 1) Coteaz was out of range to fight, at least initially, 2) I was thinking more offensively than defensively (i.e. better that Draigo kills 1 than none at all), 3) not sure I could move Draigo close enough to tank Typhus' hits due to all the models in between and 4) don't have my BRB with me currently, but when you refuse a challenge, isn't the model moved to the back (meaning he wouldn't be able to tank the hits anyways)?
BTW I also run Draigowing and Typhus-zombies CSM.
Valek wrote: Tbh, that guy played the game tactically to perfection, the only thing i' missing is what he did with the destroyer lord...
Tarpitting those pallies was huge, Typhus oh well guess it was just waiting untill Draigo killed him, he would never match 4 wounds ...
his helldrakes where doing what they needed also, some people really dismiss the vector strikes, they can suprise lone chars or small units, not mentioning the baleflamer though!!
Yeah, he played his Chaos well, though I wouldn't say he played it to perfection. Killing my night scythe on Turn 5 almost sealed his doom had the game ended.
Also, I wouldn't have thown his other zombies into combat with my paladins as well. Instead, I'd just have them bubble-wrap both his EW and Crusade objective (along with his warriors). Had he done that, I probably wouldn't have been able to take both of those objectives.
Heldrakes were alright. They didn't do a whole lot of damage. Then again, my army doesn't give them very many targets.
herpguy wrote: Unfortunately it was just a matter of time for typhus to eat it. That's one thing typhus suffers from, no EW while having initiative 1.
Typhus was a boss. He survived through 3-4 rounds of combat with Draigo and killed over 300+ pts of paladins. He definitely got it done this game.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: From what I have seen, the AB has contributed very little to your army. It seems to me to be nothing more than first-blood as it and your pallies are the only real targets turn 1. Even your the game against myself, the AB bit the dust right out of the gate.
Nevertheless, this looks like a really fun tourney and a great close game.
Well, it is more resilient than my dreads and cheaper as well. I'd have reserved it if I could but unfortunately, someone's got to stay on the table. Also, there wasn't a whole lot of Night-fight in these scenarios which I could take advantage of (I believe there was only 2 night-fights out of the 6 games we played).
Yeah, it's First Blood-bait but at only 90-pts, it's not a huge loss.
Indeed. I imagine that finding a more effective use of those points would be hard though, i'm not 100% on those armies. JY is normally a lot smarter of a player in giving up free kills like that, I think this last game was probably showing a bit of fatigue from a long day.
Yeah, game #4 was just bad play on my part with my AB.
However, it was golden in game #1, killing 2 heldrakes and surviving.
The AB is one of the most point efficient units in the game, but I think that it is very out of place in this list. I think those point would be better served giving the suicide overlord an invulnerable save and perhaps another soloadin
It was necessary as an anti-flyer platform, which was one of my weaknesses.
In the future, I would still use the AB despite my opponent's efforts to kill it. It is worth every point.
I'd be interested in reading that tactica! In any case, thanks for the feedback. It's sometimes difficult to see exactly what a person is thinking from just batrep pictures, but you do such a good job of explaining each step. I've been hoping to get some paladins back into my lists and I think your advice is going to come in really handy for keeping them useful. Back when I started I had a tendency to just rush them forward but now hopefully I can use them a bit more intelligently. Thanks!
Sorry, but I probably won't be writing a tactica for the paladins any time soon. I have a back-log of battle reports to write.
Defintely give paladins a second look. I think they are still one of the more viable GK builds along with Coteaz-henchmen builds.
He gets almost 40 attacks at WS5 with S5 AP2 power axes. More than half of his attacks are re-rolling to hit due to Prescience. We both strike at I1 due to Psyk-out grenades from Coteaz.
somerandomdude wrote: Please note, this suggestion probably wouldn't had have ANY impact on the game whatsoever, but...
In the close combat, I would have either A) accepted the Zombie challenge with Coteaz or B) refused the challenge altogether. This way, Draigo would be available to take wounds from Typhus with his 3++ and EW. It only works if the placement is appropriate though, which may not have been the case.
As someone who has used Typhus against a Draigo army, I am very, very happy when the opponent accepts a Zombie/Cultist/CSM challenge with Draigo.
Good advice.
I accepted the challenge with Draigo because 1) Coteaz was out of range to fight, at least initially, 2) I was thinking more offensively than defensively (i.e. better that Draigo kills 1 than none at all), 3) not sure I could move Draigo close enough to tank Typhus' hits due to all the models in between and 4) don't have my BRB with me currently, but when you refuse a challenge, isn't the model moved to the back (meaning he wouldn't be able to tank the hits anyways)?
The model just can't fight but you can still tank wounds with him, other wise how would you kill him if you had enough damage on the unit? It isn't very intuitive because you assume he gets hurt last but you can tank wounds with him still. I have seen it done with an Archon before so he could use his shadowfield to save grots from smash attacks.
I also played against your game 4 opponent, Mike. He is a really nice guy and a great player as well. He also plays a tough list. I managed to squeak a win (and hand him his only loss of the event). I was happy to see him win best CSM at the end as well.
Sorry for the delay guys. It's been hectic at work lately. I promise that Game #5 will be up tonight.
somerandomdude wrote: Move to the back is only in WFB. As long as he's in range he can take the hits.
Red Corsair wrote: The model just can't fight but you can still tank wounds with him, other wise how would you kill him if you had enough damage on the unit? It isn't very intuitive because you assume he gets hurt last but you can tank wounds with him still. I have seen it done with an Archon before so he could use his shadowfield to save grots from smash attacks.
Good to know. As you can probably tell, I don't often refuse challenges.
It would have probably saved me 1-2 paladins as Draigo was out of range to tank the hits initially, due to some zombies and paladins between him and Typhus.
He gets almost 40 attacks at WS5 with S5 AP2 power axes. More than half of his attacks are re-rolling to hit due to Prescience. We both strike at I1 due to Psyk-out grenades from Coteaz.
Draigo then proceeds to tank 22 of those wounds (with the help of FNP from the Apothecary)!!!
Told you that often the apot is worth taking.
But that is because the times have changed. Back then, there wasn't the new Tau nor the new Eldar codex yet. It is the firepower of those 2 new armies that makes an Apothecary now worth taking IMO, and that is precisely why I took him - in anticipation of facing those new armies.
And the irony is that I didn't.
N.I.B. wrote: Any chance of a tournament report from Janthkin? I would love to read in detail how the Tyranids did.
Probably not. He's at Nova right now and doesn't write battle reports often. But I'm sure he wouldn't mind writing a quick synopsis of his matchups when he gets back.
JGrand wrote: I also played against your game 4 opponent, Mike. He is a really nice guy and a great player as well. He also plays a tough list. I managed to squeak a win (and hand him his only loss of the event). I was happy to see him win best CSM at the end as well.
Great reps as always!
Our game wasn't without its hitches and a little tension, but Mike is a competent enough player with his Chaos. I'm not surprised he won the best CSM player award.
BTW, congrats at NOVA. Great job there, winning your bracket and going 7-1.
Ok, this is it. It's us against the two-time defending ATC champions, Team Wrecking BOLS. Unlike most tournaments in which the Championship is usually the last game, at the ATC, it's usually Game #5 which is the "unofficial" Championship game. Why? Because we are in 1st (444-pts) and Wrecking BOLS is in 2nd currently (433-pts). We are currently the 2 best teams thus far. All the other teams have a worst record than us. Also, in the tournament, you cannot play a team again that you've already played against and we've already played almost all the top teams. Thus, after this game, we would most likely be playing against a team that is probably ranked 3rd-6th.
Our opponent are the boys from Bell of Lost Souls (aka BOLS) with an All-Star cast. Leading team is one of the all-time 40K greats, Nick Rose (aka Darkwynn). He was a member of Team America for 2 years and was part of the team that took 3rd in 2011 at the ETC. He also was a 2-time winner of the Ard Boyz and won it one year with an IG army that then become known as the Leafblower IG. Nick is also a multiple-GT winner, having won such Grand Tournament such as Wargamescon and others. So far throughout the tournament, he's been on a tear with his pure eldar, winning each of his games by no less than 28-pts each! He is a Giant, no, he is a Monster in the world of 40K....and I would love the honor of playing against one of the game's best.
We also have Thomas Reidy aka Goatboy. He is a regular article contributor to BOLS and also a very consistent tournament player. He actually made it to the Bay Area's Open GT inaugural event, where I believe he placed 4th with an "oddball" space wolf drop pod army. Then there's Kenny Boucher of Next Level Painting and Rob "Man Boy Genius" Baer of Spikey Bits, both seasoned and dangerous tournament players.
Finally, we have my opponent and Team Captain of Wrecking BOLS....Paul Murphy.
This is how the rest of our teams matched up:
Kevin vs Rob: Necrons + Grey Knights (Draigowing w/Apothecary, Necrons in flyers, 3 Annihilation Barges)
Bill vs Goatboy: FMC-spam CSM + Daemons (2 CSMDP's, GUO, 2 Heldrakes, Daemon DP)
Mike vs Darkwynn: Hybrid Eldar (2 Farseers, Guardians, 2x8 Warp Spiders, Wraithknight, Dark Reapers, Night Spinner)
2000 Paul's Imperial Guards + Space Wolves
Paul is another player who is well-respected in the 40K tournament scene. I believe he does do some podcasting for BOLS and is a consistently successful tournament player, usually placing high in the tournaments he goes to. For those of you who follow Frontline Gaming's battle reports, some of you might remember him as being Reece's "Mount Everest". Reece and Paul has clashed quite a few times in some of the largest tournaments and I believe Reece has yet to beat Paul in competitive play. Matchup-wise, Paul's army was put out as a Defender and since I've already had success against 1 IG player, my teammates felt it would be better for the team if I "took care" of another. In any case, I was happy with the matchup. There were 2 players I wanted to play against (notice that I didn't say army....I didn't really care about the army I would be facing as much as I did the player). One was Darkwynn. The other was Paul so going into the game, I was pretty stoked.
After playing against a similar IG army already (with the Black Mace Daemon Prince instead of Logan's Wolfstar), I was going into this matchup with a lot more confidence than I would have had if this was my first game against IG. However, I do expect this game to be more challenging because I believe I will be playing against a more experienced tournament player. That's actually scary because I barely won my 1st encounter with guards in this tournament. With proper spacing, I know I have the resiliency to survive his offense and also the tools to take on his army. Regarding our deathstars, there is no comparison. My paladinstar should crush his wolfstar with ease so I don't foresee him playing them too aggressively. I am also hoping my Necron Overlord can do what he does best - screw with my opponent's backfield units. Though with plasma guns and power axes there, it won't be as easy for my Overlord to survive as it was in the other games. But overall, I have confidence that I can win this matchup. Why? First of all, I can't believe Paul picked the table with a decent LOS-blocking terrain in the middle. I was practically salivating when I saw which table he had chosen. All I need to do is put all my objectives near the center and then hide my paladins there. Then, it will be on him to try to dislodge me from them (or to contest my objectives). The drawback will be that I won't be able to use their firepower, except against his vendettas or Logan's unit when they try to shoot me off of my objective or assault me. Secondly, I am going 2nd. With necrons in flyers, I will have the final say in regards to the objectives.
I use Grand Strategy to make both of my dreads scoring.
IG deployment. He blobs up both of his infantry squads, with the Lord Commissar in one and his Rune Priest in the other. Manticores are hiding behind the ruins....which were also behind the LOS-blocking terrain.
He has his veterans in 1 vendetta and the non-autocannon Platoon Command Squad (PCS) in the other.
My deployment. Again, as with all blast-happy opponents, I spread out my paladins.
Here's a little tip....barrage weapons can only hit the top levels of ruins. Thus, if you want to protect your important units (i.e. my Warlord Coteaz and Apothecary), put them underneath the ruins so that they can't be hit by manticore missiles. Just be careful that they are not right next to a model that can be targeted by the manticore as they can still get killed that way.
I also deploy a unit of warriors and leave my AB, 2 dreads, Overlord and soladin in reserves....Oops! That's 1 unit too many in reserves. I didn't realize this mistake until I was writing this report.
I do not try to seize. There's no point since I can't even shoot my opponent on Turn 1.
Logan's unit drops in. Paul decides to play it conservatively and drops in his table half, behind the LOS-blocking terrain.
Shooting by both his manticores kill 1 psycannon paladin and 3 warriors (after I went-to-ground with my warriors).
Warriors then pass Morale and 2 gets back up.
NecroKnights 1
Spoiler:
Not much happens this turn. Paladins advance and then run. I leave Coteaz under the ruins still.
Imperial Guards 2
Spoiler:
Both vendettas come in.
The rest of his army just waits.
They shoot down another 1 psycannon paladin. Wow....2 psycannons down so far! He is going after my firepower. But considering he fired 6 twin-linked lascannons at my paladins, I'll take it!
Manticores fire and fail to kill any paladins. That is a good thing since he centered the shots on my Apothecary/Banner! He also fires his autocannons but nothing gets through.
NecroKnights 2
Spoiler:
Time to bring the pain. Both dreads come in thanks to Psychic Communion. My soladin comes in as well despite Psychic Communion. Finally, my empty night scythe comes in. Coteaz is out of Runic Staff range and casts Prescience.
Paladins advance. I am 2" away from his wolfstar.
Both dreads and the night scythe combine to take off 2 Hull Points and 1 lascannon from one of his vendettas. I also force it to jink, but I don't get First Blood.
Paladins then fire at the wolfstar. I put 2W on Logan and 1W on Arjac as both characters were in the front.
I then charge. Arjac then strikes down my lead paladin with his mighty thunderhammer via Overwatch! With his death, I am now looking at a 3" charge through difficult terrain, and I then proceed to fail that charge!!!
Imperial Guards 3
Spoiler:
Vendettas continue to move forwards.
Logan and friends prepare for a counter-assault. When playing deathstars, positioning is very important. Notice how he makes 1 of his wolf guards the closest model to my paladinstar in order for him to eat my Overwatch.
I believe it is an autocannon that immobilizes my night scythe.
Vendetta takes down a scoring dread, thus giving Paul First Blood.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 1, NecroKnights: 0
I believe a scattering manticore blast kills a 3rd psycannon paladin.
Finally, his wolfstar charges. He survives my Overwatch. Logan gives the unit Prefered Enemy and +1 Attack. I believe his Rune Priest also casts Prescience on them.
Logan issues a challenge. I didn't want Draigo stuck in combat with him so I refused. Thus, Draigo is not fighting this turn.
When all is said and done, only Logan is alive after combat after I wipe out his wolfguards, including Arjac. My warding stave is put to good use here as he absorbs every single wound.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 1, NecroKnights: 1
NecroKnights 3
Spoiler:
Night scythe comes in and drops off my Overlord.
GK movement. Somehow, my soladin survived 2 lascannons to the face and out in the open last turn.
His quad-guns then intercept my night scythe, forcing me to jink, and proceed to take off 1 HP from it.
My dread shoots at his damaged vendetta and blows it out of the sky. He loses 4 guardsmen from his PCS in the explosion. I also get double VP's for killing a Fast Attack.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 1, NecroKnights: 3
I finally kill Logan (with the help of Misfortune), but before he dies, he insta-slays 3 of my paladins in return!
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 1, NecroKnights: 4
Imperial Guards 4
Spoiler:
Guardsmen move to deal with my Overlord.
His vendetta goes into Hovering mode.
Shooting by his guardsmen put 2W on my Overlord.
Autocannons put 1W on my soladin.
His vendetta, who was originally going to shoot at my dread, is then forced to deal with my soladin. He spares my dread in order to take down my soladin.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 2, NecroKnights: 4
NecroKnights 4
Spoiler:
My empty night scythe comes in from Ongoing Reserves, but I forget about his quad-guns. He intercepts my night scythe and shoots it down.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 3, NecroKnights: 4
Annihilation barge finally comes in.
Paladins decide to backtrack. There's only 3 paladins left, along with Coteaz and Draigo.
My Overlord advances.
Between my dread and my AB, I shoot down his vendetta.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 3, NecroKnights: 6
If it wasn't last turn, then it is probably this turn. I gun down his lone PCS guy.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 3, NecroKnights: 7
My Overlord then assaults and kills 3 of his guys. We remain locked in combat.
Imperial Guards 5
Spoiler:
His veterans go after my AB and slags it with meltas.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 4, NecroKnights: 7
He finally brings down my Overlord with a power axe. He would not get back up.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 4, NecroKnights: 7
NecroKnights 5
Spoiler:
This could potentially be the last turn.
My guys go to secure the objectives. Draigo splits off from his unit to go after the veterans. He then runs.
Night scythe comes in from Ongoing Reserves and drops off my troops, who then move and run to contest both my opponent's Crusade and Emperor's Will objective.
Paladins go after his drop pod for good measure. I assault and wreck it.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 4, NecroKnights: 8
So currently I am dominating this matchup. I've got all 3 mission objectives thanks to my contesting warriors. The only thing my opponent has is First Blood. We tie in Warlord and Linebreaker. If the game was to end now, I win it 26-4.
We roll to see if the game continues and it does.
Imperial Guards 6
Spoiler:
His guardsmen prepare to assault my contesting warriors.
Veterans move away from Draigo.
His veterans then fire at my warriors, hoping to get them off of an objective. They only manage to kill 1.
However, the rest of his shooting kills 2 of my contesting warriors and they break before his blob has a chance to assault.
He opts not to assault because 1) he didn't want to leave the protection of his Aegis and 2) he didn't want to leave his objectives.
NecroKnights 6
Spoiler:
Draigo moves onto the wreck. The dice on top of his vendetta is where Draigo actually is.
Draigo then fires his heavy flamer psychic power, kills 7 and breaks the unit. They would not regroup.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 4, NecroKnights: 9
Finally, my warriors regroup and consolidate up to contest my opponent's Crusade objective.
Game ends.
We tie on Emperor's Will, with his blob squad on his and my dread on mine.
I take Purge the Alien.
I also take Crusade 2 (warriors, paladins) to 1 (his blob squad), with my warriors contesting one of his Crusade objectives.
Neither of us gets Warlord. I get Linebreaker with my contesting warriors in his deployment zone. Paul gets First Blood (dreadnought).
I take this game 23-7.
Crushing Victory for the Draicronic Measures NecroKnights!!!
I can't believe my opponent would pick this table! It just gave my paladins and troops a perfect place to hide. Perhaps with the manticores, he reflexively picked it because he felt that he could still do damage to my paladins despite the terrain, though all it really ended up doing was to deny FRF!SRF! shooting from his own mini-blob squads. I knew that after Turn 4, when his manticore missiles were all used up, that I could hold the middle with all those objectives there. Having said that, however, he still managed to take out 7 paladins, which was quite an impressive feat. It's also interesting to note that I didn't even go after his manticores at all this game. Yes, you have to respect those manticores, but paladins can survive them as long as I left no other viable targets for them. In this case, the ruins were a true lifesaver. I hid my scoring dread and warriors underneath them for the most part (as well as my Warlord initially) and thus, my opponent had no other target but my paladins. Paul is a good player. However, the combination of the table that he chose, my going 2nd and some decent dice on my part made this an uphill battle for my opponent.
So on to the part where everyone is probably waiting for. How did our team do? Brandon had the best performance this round with a 26-pt win over Kenny's daemons....and here I thought daemons were possibly the worst matchup for Tau. I'm not sure how he did it, but I'm glad he did. We need all the points we can get to remain on top. For our opponents, Nick was their top performer as his eldar thoroughly trounced Mike's space wolves. I heard he had magical dice or something, but that game ended very, very early. Bill's daemons barely eked past Thomas' CSM/daemons in a mirror-match where he won on Secondaries, 17-13. Finally, Kevin's impressive string of performances continues with a 25-pt win over Rob's Draigowing. It was a somewhat hilarious match as Kevin got triple-Enfeebles and at one point, had the paladins down to T2 and was insta-killing them with gants and gargoyles, not to mention his flyrant and the mawloc popping up on top of them. So in the end, we won convincingly with a score of 93-57. 1 more match to go....
Wow, those Guardsmen have a pretty irregular loadout from what I'm used to seeing! One flamer and two meltas on a veteran squad? Sure will be interesting to see how he plays this list.
Yeah, it's the player that makes the quirky list work. Time and time again, good players have been winning with what seemed to be unoptimized lists. Examples of such players include Reece, Janthkin, Mortetvie, Tomb King and Darkwynn just to name a few. In any case, I'm not going to under-estimate my opponent.
I'm looking forward to this report! I've actually played against Paul multiple times in a competitive setting but I've only beat him once and that was helped in no small part by his dice going stone cold in turn 3. Good luck!
Our game wasn't without its hitches and a little tension, but Mike is a competent enough player with his Chaos. I'm not surprised he won the best CSM player award.
BTW, congrats at NOVA. Great job there, winning your bracket and going 7-1.
Thanks! I was hoping for top 16, but lost game 4 to Nick Rose (Darkwyn), who came in 4th overall. I had a great time, so I can't complain
Looking forward to these reports. QC didn't get to play Wrecking Bols, but we did keep an eye on what the results of round 5 were. I'm also interested to read about the game between you and Eric (I didn't really get to watch much of it).
Starless Night wrote: I'm looking forward to this report! I've actually played against Paul multiple times in a competitive setting but I've only beat him once and that was helped in no small part by his dice going stone cold in turn 3. Good luck!
The only way to get better is to play against someone better. Keep on playing him and you just may surprise yourself with how well you can do at a tournament.
Our game wasn't without its hitches and a little tension, but Mike is a competent enough player with his Chaos. I'm not surprised he won the best CSM player award.
BTW, congrats at NOVA. Great job there, winning your bracket and going 7-1.
Thanks! I was hoping for top 16, but lost game 4 to Nick Rose (Darkwyn), who came in 4th overall. I had a great time, so I can't complain
Looking forward to these reports. QC didn't get to play Wrecking Bols, but we did keep an eye on what the results of round 5 were. I'm also interested to read about the game between you and Eric (I didn't really get to watch much of it).
Of the 3 guard players I played against, IMO, Eric had the best one. Double IG blinged-up, blob-squads with a Rune Priest in each is no joke! Then again, I'm not surprised as his list is based off of several tournament-winning IG lists, including Tony Kopach's and Nick Nanavati, both of which I believe he games with on a regular basis (I may be off on Nick, but I'm pretty sure he plays against Tony regularly).
In any case, I was estatic to play against him.
Lord Cornilius wrote: I felt I needed to thank you for the time and effort you put into these battle reports. Thanks for keeping us entertained!
My pleasure. I have almost as much fun writing these reports as I do playing them.
I wonder who you face next round . Thanks for all the reps thus far, nice to see another teams point of view. Maybe we will throw up a quick summary of our matchups/games.
I wonder if sending the wolf star against your back field might have been the smarter play. Putting them up against draigo wing was suicide. It slowed you down for a turn. He could have achieved that with an unblobbed infantry squad. Knocking your dreads and other backfield campers might have been more useful. At least give you pause to double back.
jy2 wrote: I also deploy a unit of warriors and leave my AB, 2 dreads, Overlord and soladin in reserves....Oops! That's 1 unit too many in reserves. I didn't realize this mistake until I was writing this report.
Your reserves were fine. The Overlord was riding in the Night Scythe, so he doesn't count, so you had 4 units on the board (Paladins, Draigo, Coteaz, and Warriors) with 4 units in reserve (AB, 2 Dreads, and Soladin).
And actually even if the Overlord did matter, you're allowed half rounding up, so that would be half of 9 (4.5 -> 5) in reserve, so you were good either way.
It was a very fun game. I was looking forward to seeing the pictures you took.
You are sort of underthinking the table choice.
I needed that line of sight blocking terrain there to protect my terminators from your shots (from all the cannons and storm bolters) and this included a possible scatter into 'i've been expecting you' range and giving up first blood early if you chose to shoot the pod. In order for me to win the assault I can't afford to 'give away' terminators to small arms fire.
You made 11 2+ saves with the staff and the majority of those were instant death. So above average but not drastically so. All said and done your Warding Stave sucked up 13-14 or so ap 2 wounds before going down.
You made a lot of 5++ saves, in other areas, which made me have to divert additional fire to units that 'should have been dead' the round before. Had the vendettas killed the solodin or in the round before if they had both killed more than a single paladin with shots... (6 twin lined las cannons - 1 dead paladin :( ) But whatever - that's why we play this game.
I kept trying to get angle on sniping out the warding stave paladin but I didn't have enough movement to do so! I believe this may have been intentional on your part,
My stuff that actually hurts your units doesn't care about the LoS blocking terrain in the middle of the board because I can see over it, Ha!
Thanks for taking the pics and the enjoyable game.
Congrats again to you and your team for the win!
To bogalubov:
Math says that wolf guard with terminator armor, storm shields, power axes, preferred enemy, counter charge, high king and blah blah blah do very well against Paladins. With more average dice in that combat it would have gone MUCH differently.
I had planned to have a lot fewer paladins there to fight (ie killing them with las cannons) but it is what it is. We have to play the turns as they unfold when the dice go against us. The key to winning games after a bad round or two is continuing to claw and scrape for every point. That is something we talk a lot about on my podcast (http://www.forgethenarrative.com/)
If I had killed the paladins there would have been nothing stopping me from rushing to the backfield with a powerful scoring unit of my own
With that said - this was not a dice made game. jy2 played awesome with what I saw as only one mistep (with the necron lord). The clutch roles were made with a little luck involved. We play a game where the improbable happens on a consistent basis, heh. I have learned to accept this in my old age..
Well done on beating, Paul! Haha, I am 0-2-1 agains thim so far, the guy manages to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat against me every time! I'll get him next go though, for sure!
blood angel wrote: It was a very fun game. I was looking forward to seeing the pictures you took.
You are sort of underthinking the table choice.
I needed that line of sight blocking terrain there to protect my terminators from your shots (from all the cannons and storm bolters) and this included a possible scatter into 'i've been expecting you' range and giving up first blood early if you chose to shoot the pod. In order for me to win the assault I can't afford to 'give away' terminators to small arms fire.
You made 11 2+ saves with the staff and the majority of those were instant death. So above average but not drastically so. All said and done your Warding Stave sucked up 13-14 or so ap 2 wounds before going down.
You made a lot of 5++ saves, in other areas, which made me have to divert additional fire to units that 'should have been dead' the round before. Had the vendettas killed the solodin or in the round before if they had both killed more than a single paladin with shots... (6 twin lined las cannons - 1 dead paladin :( ) But whatever - that's why we play this game.
I kept trying to get angle on sniping out the warding stave paladin but I didn't have enough movement to do so! I believe this may have been intentional on your part,
My stuff that actually hurts your units doesn't care about the LoS blocking terrain in the middle of the board because I can see over it, Ha!
Thanks for taking the pics and the enjoyable game.
Congrats again to you and your team for the win!
To bogalubov:
Math says that wolf guard with terminator armor, storm shields, power axes, preferred enemy, counter charge, high king and blah blah blah do very well against Paladins. With more average dice in that combat it would have gone MUCH differently.
I had planned to have a lot fewer paladins there to fight (ie killing them with las cannons) but it is what it is. We have to play the turns as they unfold when the dice go against us. The key to winning games after a bad round or two is continuing to claw and scrape for every point. That is something we talk a lot about on my podcast (http://www.forgethenarrative.com/)
If I had killed the paladins there would have been nothing stopping me from rushing to the backfield with a powerful scoring unit of my own
With that said - this was not a dice made game. jy2 played awesome with what I saw as only one mistep (with the necron lord). The clutch roles were made with a little luck involved. We play a game where the improbable happens on a consistent basis, heh. I have learned to accept this in my old age..
Hey Paul! Good to hear from you. And thanks for the game. It was a pleasure to play against you.
Yeah, I can see how the terrain benefitted both mine and your army. We both had something to gain from it. I was quite happy with it because my strategy never was to rush your army with my paladinstar. Rather, it was to hold the middle and kill everything that threatened it or my objectives. I controlled my objectives in my deployment zone. You controlled your objectives in your deployment zone. I then controlled the central objectives and it was up to your army to contest/get me off of them. Thus, I was going into the matchup with an advantage already. My strategy basically ties into my philosophy of Positional Dominance. Basically, the goal to was win via board control. Even though my army wasn't very fast, one thing paladins do very well is to control the board. In any case, the central LOS-blocking terrain aided me in my strategy. I knew that once the manticores ran out of missiles, I would be ok (and as long as I could take down the vendettas).
Yeah, the warding stave was pivotal in our 1st round of combat. I got a little lucky passing all those saves initially. Then after I killed off all those wolf guards, it didn't matter as much whether he lived or not on the 2nd turn of combat against Logan.
Perhaps we will face each other again in the future. I plan to go to more GT's next year, including either Adepticon or Nova.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Clauss wrote: I wonder who you face next round . Thanks for all the reps thus far, nice to see another teams point of view. Maybe we will throw up a quick summary of our matchups/games.
That'll be cool. After my next and final report, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in how your team did.
bogalubov wrote: I wonder if sending the wolf star against your back field might have been the smarter play. Putting them up against draigo wing was suicide. It slowed you down for a turn. He could have achieved that with an unblobbed infantry squad. Knocking your dreads and other backfield campers might have been more useful. At least give you pause to double back.
My paladinstar was kind of spread out. If he landed in my backfield near any of my objectives, then there's a good chance that he will be in assault range in 1 or maybe 2 turns at most. Also, landing there runs the risk of dropping into Coteaz's I've Been Expecting You range.
In any case, the middle objectives weren't too far from my backfield objectives. With my strategy, it wouldn't have mattered. I wasn't planning on assaulting his IG troops, just defending on my backfield. I wouldn't really have to "double-back" since I would be in that area anyways.
jy2 wrote: I also deploy a unit of warriors and leave my AB, 2 dreads, Overlord and soladin in reserves....Oops! That's 1 unit too many in reserves. I didn't realize this mistake until I was writing this report.
Your reserves were fine. The Overlord was riding in the Night Scythe, so he doesn't count, so you had 4 units on the board (Paladins, Draigo, Coteaz, and Warriors) with 4 units in reserve (AB, 2 Dreads, and Soladin).
And actually even if the Overlord did matter, you're allowed half rounding up, so that would be half of 9 (4.5 -> 5) in reserve, so you were good either way.
I think the rules are a little murky there. The FAQ says that a unit in a flyer doesn't count. However, the BRB explicitly says that IC's always count towards the reserve quota, even if they are with a unit that doesn't count.
But from your 2nd assertion - that you can start off with more units in reserves than on the table in the case of an odd number of units - I would feel much better if that's the case.
Reecius wrote: Well done on beating, Paul! Haha, I am 0-2-1 agains thim so far, the guy manages to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat against me every time! I'll get him next go though, for sure!
Well played, buddy.
Thanks! Sounds a lot like me back in 5th against you and Frankie. Lol. But not happening so far in 6th. There were quite a number of games in which I almost snatched victory from the jaws of defeat....but then the game would continue on to Turn 6 and I lose it. Lol. Oh well, I can't be lucky all the time.
That can happen if you trust to win the game with a mad dash on turn 5 instead of securing the victory then. That aspect of 6th edition objectives I do not like, it happens all the time when someone with a weaker position but a last turn snatches the victory.
blood angel wrote: ...this included a possible scatter into 'i've been expecting you' range and giving up first blood early if you chose to shoot the pod.
Just thought I'd let you know in case you play against Coteaz again:
He gets to shoot both the pod AND the unit, as there is no limit to the number of times per turn he can use the ability, and the only criteria is that the unit arrived from reserves, which both units did.
Either way, it's usually a good idea to not deep strike near Coteaz
Good game guys, and Paul I LOVE your guardsmen, especially the vendettas!
And Thanks. Those vendettas are bad ass. This army was painted by GMM Studios http://www.gmmstudios.com/ I just had the pleasure of playing it for that event. More pictures can be found in the painting showcase forum here.
I'll be back to my Catachans the next time I roll out the IG.
On topic, I will say that Arjak was worth his points consistently through the whole tournament. This is the first time that I invested in him and I am happy I did.
jy2 wrote: I think the rules are a little murky there. The FAQ says that a unit in a flyer doesn't count. However, the BRB explicitly says that IC's always count towards the reserve quota, even if they are with a unit that doesn't count.
But from your 2nd assertion - that you can start off with more units in reserves than on the table in the case of an odd number of units - I would feel much better if that's the case.
Ahh, I must have missed that part of the reserve rules. As for the 2nd part, I don't have my BRB on me, but I believe there's a general rule early on in the book that says if you take "Half" of something you always round up. Assuming that's true and there isn't anything in the reserve rules that explicitly says to round down, then the odd number should be good.
Sorry, maybe this topic has been addressed over the course of the thread, but, I'm trying to figure out what is so "fluffy bunny" about GreyCron and Riptide and Psyfleman spam lists? Am I assuming correctly that the name is a bit of a joke?
jy2, the FAQ about ICs only refers to units they have joined, not transports. An IC is never "with" or "attached to" its transport - if it were, it could confer rules to that transport, which has consistently been ruled against in the FAQs. So what you did was perfectly legal; both the Overlord and Warriors count as 1 unit each in reserves, but as both were in a flyer, both are discounted.
Valek wrote: I disagree, it adds strategic planning to the game, if you do not see that happening something is wrong on your tactics
Only if all armies were equally maneuverable. It is brilliant strategy when you turboboost your jetbikes to contest an objective and hope the game ends there, as you just managed to grab the objectives victory? I don't think so..
Sorry, maybe this topic has been addressed over the course of the thread, but, I'm trying to figure out what is so "fluffy bunny" about GreyCron and Riptide and Psyfleman spam lists? Am I assuming correctly that the name is a bit of a joke?
Am I totally dense for asking this question?
Yes...you are
In all seriousness, the Fluffy Bunnies are a team of five successful 40k vet players that came in first in a hyper competitive event. The name is ironic. The real "fluffy bunnies" were down toward the bottom. That's the way it goes.
Although its not an IC in a flyer, in an all drop pod army characters are deploying in the drop pods. I haven't seen them be counted as units before. Of course people could have been playing this incorrectly.
Xenocidal Maniac wrote: Sorry, maybe this topic has been addressed over the course of the thread, but, I'm trying to figure out what is so "fluffy bunny" about GreyCron and Riptide and Psyfleman spam lists? Am I assuming correctly that the name is a bit of a joke?
Am I totally dense for asking this question?
Well, we DID have Tyranids in our team.
I believe the team naming conversation went something like this:
Bill: "Wouldn't it be extra-humiliating if we win a game, and our opponents have to say they lost to the Fluffy Bunnies?"
Mike & Brandon: "Yeah!"
Okay, sorry for being dense here, but you've been using the same tactic in each game, Overlord and Warriors in a Scythe. Move on scythe, drop Overlord, move scythe next turn and drop off Warriors elsewhere.
Now, I always thought that as soon as a character is in a transport with another unit, he is part of that unit. Now the rules are quite clear on this, (if not enlightenment would be appreciated) a unit must fully embark or disembark a transport, no half measures. Since the lord is part of the unit at the start of the movement phase, remember he only leaves the unit when he is 2" away, by disembarking wouldn't he force the rest of the unit to disembark with him also?
AndrewC wrote: Okay, sorry for being dense here, but you've been using the same tactic in each game, Overlord and Warriors in a Scythe. Move on scythe, drop Overlord, move scythe next turn and drop off Warriors elsewhere.
Now, I always thought that as soon as a character is in a transport with another unit, he is part of that unit. Now the rules are quite clear on this, (if not enlightenment would be appreciated) a unit must fully embark or disembark a transport, no half measures. Since the lord is part of the unit at the start of the movement phase, remember he only leaves the unit when he is 2" away, by disembarking wouldn't he force the rest of the unit to disembark with him also?
Cheers
Andrew
No, he wouldn't. An IC can always leave a unit to form his own unit, which is basically a unit of 1. The "half measures" you are thinking about is if I disembark 2 warriors and leave 3 warriors in their transport. That is illegal since part of the unit is in a transport and part of the unit is out.
Naw wrote: That can happen if you trust to win the game with a mad dash on turn 5 instead of securing the victory then. That aspect of 6th edition objectives I do not like, it happens all the time when someone with a weaker position but a last turn snatches the victory.
The "mad-dash-strategy" gives you some added flexibility towards winning the game. Of course your strategy won't be based on that, but you have the ability to still win games that way even if things are going poorly for you. Thus, eldar and necrons (or armies that ally in eldar and necrons) have a huge advantage over some of the other armies. When it comes to ways-to-win-the-game, they've got greater flexibility than those who don't have highly mobile troops.
CaptainJay wrote: Being dense, check the rules for Independent characters.
What a wonderfully erudite and helpful reply! Thank you for the explanation .
I will repost and rephrase. A character can leave a unit by simply moving away from the rest of the unit and maintaing a 2" gap. However in order to move away from the unit, by getting out of the vehicle, the character has to declare a disembark move. Since he is still part of the unit when he declares this, the unit has to disembark too. Remember no half measures.
CaptainJay wrote: Being dense, check the rules for Independent characters.
What a wonderfully erudite and helpful reply! Thank you for the explanation .
I will repost and rephrase. A character can leave a unit by simply moving away from the rest of the unit and maintaing a 2" gap. However in order to move away from the unit, by getting out of the vehicle, the character has to declare a disembark move. Since he is still part of the unit when he declares this, the unit has to disembark too. Remember no half measures.
Perhaps now I'll get a reasonable response.
Cheers
Andrew
See p. 79, "Independent Characters and Transports." It's explicitly allowed to play it as Jim does.
jy2 wrote: No, he wouldn't. An IC can always leave a unit to form his own unit, which is basically a unit of 1. The "half measures" you are thinking about is if I disembark 2 warriors and leave 3 warriors in their transport. That is illegal since part of the unit is in a transport and part of the unit is out.
You see this is where my confusion comes into it. In most other situations an IC can do so, and the 'host' unit has no downsides to face. But in order to leave the vehicle he has to declare that he is disembarking, before he has left the unit.
Cheers
Andrew
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thank you Jathkin, I completely missed that. How I missed it I don't know. Guess I was too focused on P78 and P39.
blood angel wrote: ...this included a possible scatter into 'i've been expecting you' range and giving up first blood early if you chose to shoot the pod.
Just thought I'd let you know in case you play against Coteaz again:
He gets to shoot both the pod AND the unit, as there is no limit to the number of times per turn he can use the ability, and the only criteria is that the unit arrived from reserves, which both units did.
Either way, it's usually a good idea to not deep strike near Coteaz
Good game guys, and Paul I LOVE your guardsmen, especially the vendettas!
Hmmm....I will probably have to ask this on YMDC. To me, that seems a little too strong. It's also not consistent with past GW rulings (i.e. Daemonhunter mystics back in the previous edition).
And Thanks. Those vendettas are bad ass. This army was painted by GMM Studios http://www.gmmstudios.com/ I just had the pleasure of playing it for that event. More pictures can be found in the painting showcase forum here.
I'll be back to my Catachans the next time I roll out the IG.
On topic, I will say that Arjak was worth his points consistently through the whole tournament. This is the first time that I invested in him and I am happy I did.
Arjac is a Lysander Mini-me.
BTW, loved your army Paul. It's so purdy.
Xenocidal Maniac wrote: Sorry, maybe this topic has been addressed over the course of the thread, but, I'm trying to figure out what is so "fluffy bunny" about GreyCron and Riptide and Psyfleman spam lists? Am I assuming correctly that the name is a bit of a joke?
Am I totally dense for asking this question?
It was kind of an inside joke between us. Some of our team members thought that it would be funny when our opponent were to tell others that they got beaten by some Fluffy Bunnies team.
Xca|iber wrote: jy2, the FAQ about ICs only refers to units they have joined, not transports. An IC is never "with" or "attached to" its transport - if it were, it could confer rules to that transport, which has consistently been ruled against in the FAQs. So what you did was perfectly legal; both the Overlord and Warriors count as 1 unit each in reserves, but as both were in a flyer, both are discounted.
Another question for YMDC. I will ask later when I have time.
If it is true, it gives me much greater flexibility in how I play my army. For example, I could then reserve everything but my paladinstar to deny my opponent any soft targets at all. That actually makes my list much, much better.
Valek wrote: I disagree, it adds strategic planning to the game, if you do not see that happening s
omething is wrong on your tactics
Only if all armies were equally maneuverable. It is brilliant strategy when you turboboost your jetbikes to contest an objective and hope the game ends there, as you just managed to grab the objectives victory? I don't think so..
I entirely agree with you. It is not a sound strategy. However, you do have that flexibility with necrons and eldar in your army. Other slower armies don't even have that option, particularly when they are losing badly. Necrons/eldar can be losing badly and still have a chance to win.
jy2 wrote: Hmmm....I will probably have to ask this on YMDC. To me, that seems a little too strong. It's also not consistent with past GW rulings (i.e. Daemonhunter mystics back in the previous edition).
But hey....I'd be happy if that was true.
Already been FAQ'd, it's definitely legal.
GKFAQPg. 5 wrote:Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or Mycetic Spore, count as arriving from reserve for Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule? (p45)
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit will be able to fire once at each unit.
Grabbing the objectives right at the end with a super speed army is rather unbalanced in my mind. As you said it makes Necrons and Eldar have a chance to snatch victory from defeat... for everyone else well to bad! I don't like that kinda of advantage on armies that are already kinda THE armies to beat but I guess 40k ain't really a balance game to begin with. Still fun as hell though.
Anyway, Great games Jy2 hope you guys take the win!
Only Necrons can disembark from a transport that has moved over 6". A squad embarked in a Stormraven, Valkyrie or a Vendetta can 'parachute' out but it's not nearly as reliable.
Dozer Blades wrote: Only Necrons can disembark from a transport that has moved over 6". A squad embarked in a Stormraven, Valkyrie or a Vendetta can 'parachute' out but it's not nearly as reliable.
Grav chute insertion is a one way ticket to suicide town.
Overall I'm always amused when people talk about TAC lists and then mention that they play Necrons, Eldar, Tau, Grey Knights or Daemons. Some codexes have the potential for TAC a lot more than others.
jy2 wrote: Hmmm....I will probably have to ask this on YMDC. To me, that seems a little too strong. It's also not consistent with past GW rulings (i.e. Daemonhunter mystics back in the previous edition).
But hey....I'd be happy if that was true.
Already been FAQ'd, it's definitely legal.
GKFAQPg. 5 wrote:Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or Mycetic Spore, count as arriving from reserve for Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule? (p45)
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit will be able to fire once at each unit.
Great to know! Thanks!
Ecstasy in Service wrote: Grabbing the objectives right at the end with a super speed army is rather unbalanced in my mind. As you said it makes Necrons and Eldar have a chance to snatch victory from defeat... for everyone else well to bad! I don't like that kinda of advantage on armies that are already kinda THE armies to beat but I guess 40k ain't really a balance game to begin with. Still fun as hell though.
Anyway, Great games Jy2 hope you guys take the win!
Yeah, it's kind of unfair that they can do this and very few other armies can (at least not as good as those 2 armies). That's why the best armie IMO will probably ally in necrons or eldar just for their highly mobile scoring units. Tau + eldar may just be the best army out there right now.
Dozer Blades wrote: Only Necrons can disembark from a transport that has moved over 6". A squad embarked in a Stormraven, Valkyrie or a Vendetta can 'parachute' out but it's not nearly as reliable.
Yeah, they have the option. They just don't have the pin-point precision of crons. The night scythe would be more justified if it was 120-pts with its current capabilities or maybe if they limit the move-&-disembark only to moving at 18" and disembarking/embarking.
Dozer Blades wrote: Only Necrons can disembark from a transport that has moved over 6". A squad embarked in a Stormraven, Valkyrie or a Vendetta can 'parachute' out but it's not nearly as reliable.
Grav chute insertion is a one way ticket to suicide town.
Overall I'm always amused when people talk about TAC lists and then mention that they play Necrons, Eldar, Tau, Grey Knights or Daemons. Some codexes have the potential for TAC a lot more than others.
I look at parachuting from those transports more as a desperation move. You only do it if you absolutely have to....and sometimes, you can get incredibly lucky.
Yeah, some TAC lists are definitely better than others. That's why so many of the top players migrate to the better armies when they are playing competitively (just look at the top armies for Nova).
CaptainJay wrote: Being dense, check the rules for Independent characters.
What a wonderfully erudite and helpful reply! Thank you for the explanation .
I will repost and rephrase. A character can leave a unit by simply moving away from the rest of the unit and maintaing a 2" gap. However in order to move away from the unit, by getting out of the vehicle, the character has to declare a disembark move. Since he is still part of the unit when he declares this, the unit has to disembark too. Remember no half measures.
Perhaps now I'll get a reasonable response.
Cheers
Andrew
Heh, touche! So the issue has now been cleared up, but a) you asked and b) it is detailed in the rulebook (which I didn't have to hand, so no page reference, sorry). Apologies if my response was a bit blunt.
Heh, touche! So the issue has now been cleared up, but a) you asked and b) it is detailed in the rulebook (which I didn't have to hand, so no page reference, sorry). Apologies if my response was a bit blunt.
Not a problem. Unfortunately there are a few posters who are a little to.... clever for their own good, and rather than help someone who genuinely can't find the relevant rules despite looking for them, they would post sarky or unhelpful responses. Having run afoul of them before, I have little time for them.
I'm sure, now, that you meant well, sorry that you got hit with a "falcepalm" post.
Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading the reports, I usually don't like them. Very well done!
I'm qualified for the Feast Invitational, but will probably attend the open with my own Draigo list. I thought I was being dumb by building one in sixth! I'm painting now, but my banner bro is definitely getting a magnet and an apothecary upgrade. Also, going to paint one of my Coteaz models, too.
I probably won't get play testing in prior to competition, so good primer for me too in DW tactics. I'm running a theme army (you won't miss mine if you come, trust me ) so no Necrons for me
Though, I own all those models. Going to have some fun locally with your take on the DW!
This is it. The last game of the tournament. We are going into the match currently at 1st with 537 BP's. Surprisingly, our final opponent, Quality Control, are coming into the match at 2nd! In Round #5, they were 3rd or 4th, but they did extremely well last turn and leapfrogged all the way up to 2nd for the last match. They are coming in with 498 BP's, including a dominant win over Endless Gaming, a team we had trouble with, last round. But when you look at their roster, it isn't all that surprising. Quality Control isn't without its share of Internet greats. Their team included Kurt Clauss (aka Clauss) and Justin (aka JGrand), both successful tournament players as well as dakka regulars. And then there's Eric Hoerger (aka CreepyCrawly), winner of the St. Valentine's Day Massacre GT 2012 and also my opponent for this round. The other 2 players on their team, I wasn't familiar with.
So that's great. With the exception of our 1st round opponents, every round has been against a #2 seed in this tournament. Fortunately for us, we are going into the match with quite a comfortable lead. As long as we don't screw up royally, there is a good chance that we will take this tournament.
This is how the rest of our teams matched up:
Kevin: Grey Knights + Necrons (Coteaz, Henchmen in Psybacks, 3 Dreadknights, Destroyer Lord, 2 Night Scythes, Annihilation Barge)
Bill vs Kurt: Eldau (Farseer, 5 Wave Serpents, Wraithknight, Tau Buff Commander, Riptide, Missile-sides)
Brandon: Tau (Ethereal, Buff Commander, 5 units of Kroots, 3 Riptides, 2x6 Pathfinders, Ionhead, Missile-sides)
Mike vs JGrand: Necrons (Destroyer Lord, Overlord on Barge, Royal Court, 3 Night Scythes, Ghost Ark, 3x6 Wraiths, 3 Annihilation Barges)
2000 Eric's Imperial Guards + Space Wolves
I actually requested to play against Eric. He was QC's sacrificial army and I requested to go up against him. Never mind what army he had, but I wanted to play against the player. Why? Because I have a personal quest to play against as many GT winners as I can. I've already played against many from the West Coast:
Kevin, my own teammate (aka Janthkin, Anime Expo 2013)
Adam (Mortetvie, Golden Throne 2013)
Christian (ChristianA, Bay Area Open 2012)
Frankie (White925, Broadside Bash 2011?)
Reece (Reecius, don't remember which but I'm sure he won something)
I've even played against a few of the East Coast GT winners:
Alex (Whigwham, Feast of Blades 2012)
Brett (Tomb King, Indy Open 2012)
Paul Murphy, my Round #5 opponent (blood angel)
Eric will be my 4th East Coast GT Champion that I will have played. He won the St. Valentine's Day Massacre last year with wraithwing necrons. I requested to play against him. With the 2 successes my army has had against IG in this tournament already, my team decided to grant my request. Ok, time to try to take down another GT player. Heh, heh....
Primary:
Company Command Squad - Mortar, Vox Caster
Infantry Platoon:
Platoon Command Squad - Auto3x Flamers
Infantry Squad - Power Axe, Krak Grenades, Vox Caster
Infantry Squad - Power Axe, Krak Grenades
Infantry Squad - Power Axe, Meltabombs, Sniper Rifle
Infantry Squad - Power Axe, Meltabombs
Infantry Squad
Infantry Platoon:
Platoon Command Squad - Auto3x Flamers
Infantry Squad - Power Axe, Krak Grenades, Vox Caster
Infantry Squad - Power Axe, Krak Grenades
Infantry Squad - Power Axe, Meltabombs, Sniper Rifle
Infantry Squad - Power Axe, Meltabombs
Infantry Squad
Vendetta - Heavy Bolters
Vendetta - Heavy Bolters
Vendetta - Heavy Bolters
Eric's Imperial Guards IMO are more dangerous than my previous 2 opponent's IG armies. His army was inspired by the GT-winning IG armies won by Tony Kopach and Andrew Gonyo (aka Target). As a matter of fact, Eric constantly plays against Tony and Andrew just as I constantly play against Reece and Janthkin. They are from the same area and I believe they even frequent the same gaming stores. So you can bet with 2 GT winners as practice partners, he's going to be quite a good player. The way I look at it, he is to Frankie what Reece and I are to Tony and Andrew.
So getting back to his army, I won't be able to wipe out both blobs (maybe 1, but not both) so I'm not going to even try. Instead, my paladinstar is going to keep on doing what they've been doing all tournament long. I'm going to control the middle and then dare my opponent to take it away from me. Once again, that is my philosophy of Positional Dominance. He controls his homecourt objective. I control my homecourt objective. My advantage is that I will also control the middle objectives. I then kill off everything else in his army other than his blob squads (unless he is foolish enough to move them into range of my paladins). That has been my strategy against my previous 2 IG opponents and so far, it has worked.
With 3 vendettas, 2 manticores and 2 units that can FRF!SRF!, Eric's got some scary firepower. It won't be easy, but I think my NecroKnights can pull off the win if I can somehow manage to down all of his vendettas and kill his mobility.
Ironically enough, this will actually be the very first game of the tournament where I will be going 1st. So far in this tournament, it's either I win initiative and choose to go 2nd or my opponents win and choose to go 1st.
No Night-fight.
Coteaz gets Prescience, Forewarning and a useless Warlord trait.
The Rune Priests get Prescience + Misfortune and Prescience + Foreboding. His Warlord trait is actually quite good - re-roll reserves.
I'm actually probably more tired than I realize. We are playing Big Guns. I then use Grand Strategy to make both of my dreads scoring.
Man....I'm off to a great start already.....NOT!
My deployment. Once again, due to the manticores, I am forced to spread out. I also deploy 1 unit of warriors in area terrain (we played the hexagonal ice terrain as area). I hope I played my reserves right. I won't count my Overlord, who is in a flyer with the warriors.
So I have deployed 4 units - Draigo, Coteaz, paladins and warriors.
The "voluntary" reserves - 2 dreads, annihilation barge and soladin.
Eric's deployment - 1 blob squad with Rune Priest, Company Command Squad (CCS), 1 unit of unblobbed infantry and a manticore here.
More towards the middle is the lone wolf and his other manticore.
In reserves are the 3 vendettas with both Platoon Command Squads (PCS) and 1 unblobbed unit of infantry (I think), his other blob squad + IC and his grey hunters.
Very uneventful turn. I cast my powers, move up and then run with my paladinstar.
Imperial Guards 1
Spoiler:
Rune Priest casts Prescience (assume every turn we both cast our powers unless noted otherwise). Blob squad then backs up away from my paladins and spreads out as well.
Shooting is rather uneventful. He fires 1 manticore at my warriors and I go-to-ground in area for the 3+ cover. He fails to kill a single warrior. He fires his other manticore at my paladins, doesn't hit many and I make my saves.
NecroKnights 2
Spoiler:
OMFG! Despite trying to keep him out with Psychic Communion, my soladin comes in anyways. I then deepstrike him near one of my objectives and about 9" away from my paladinstar. He then scatters 9" directly into my paladinstar....and dies! First Blood for my IG opponent! Are you fricking kidding me!?!
Coteaz then perils and takes 1W while casting one of his powers.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 1, NecroKnights: 0
I try to keep him out as well, but one of my dreads come in.
Unfortunately, not a single necron comes in from reserves.
Paladins advance. Rather than firing just a few of my paladins at his blob squad, I decide to run them forwards instead.
Dread takes off 1 (maybe 2?) HP's from his right manticore.
Man, I am not feeling the love this game.
Imperial Guards 2
Spoiler:
Blob squad and grey hunters come in from the right flank, where Eric's got 1 Crusade objective.
2 of his vendettas come in as well.
Blob squad advances but stays against the edge.
His shooting is much better this turn. Between the vendettas, the manticores and his 2 blob squads (1 with Prescience), my opponent manages to kill 3 paladins. More importantly, he snipes out my Apothecary/Banner with his manticore.
My dread is lucky to escape with only 1 HP of damage from his vendetta.
NecroKnights 3
Spoiler:
My other dread and 1 night scythe comes in. Ignore the right vendetta. It is still in reserves.
Actually, both night scythe comes in. This one goes after the manticore. My Overlord disembarks onto terrain.
Paladins move, but as you can see, they are still too far away to do anything.
I wreck his right manticore with my dread, I believe. I also get +1 bonus VP for killing a heavy support.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 1, NecroKnights: 2
Paladins do 1 HP of damage to the vendetta.
My scythe fail to do any damage to his other manticore due to cover. Dread and night scythe fails to take down his other vendetta as well.
Imperial Guards 3
Spoiler:
The last vendetta comes in.
His vendetta goes after my dread.
Guardsmen move.
BTW, right next to our table is Mike's space wolves battling it out with JGrand's necrons.
Guardsmen moves just a little closer. Grey hunters go to claim the objective.
The pink brigade shoots down my Overlord with just volume-of-fire. He would not get back up.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 2, NecroKnights: 2
Finally, the lone wolf starts to move out as he runs forwards.
Vendetta shoots at my night scythe. I jink and he only does 1 HP of damage.
His other vendetta shoots at my dread out in the open. I am lucky as he only does 1 HP of damage to it as well.
NecroKnights 4
Spoiler:
Finally, my AB comes in. BTW, ignore the vendetta on the right. It's in Ongoing Reserves.
My night scythe goes after his other vendetta.
Paladins spread out to cover multiple objectives.
Dread and AB blows away the vendetta. 3 guys survive from the explosion. Not quite sure whether that's his infantry squad or PCS. Also, not quite sure whether he was zooming or hovering last turn. In any case, they pass Morale.
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 2, NecroKnights: 3
I fail to take down his other vendetta.
Imperial Guards 4
Spoiler:
Vendetta comes in. PCS jumps out of it and scatters. 1 dies to dangerous terrain.
His right blob starts to head towards my objective but is careful to stay out of assault range of my paladins.
The other blob unit spreads out.
PCS starts to head towards my objective.
Both of them do.
Vendetta tries to take out my dread once again but this time, I believe I have cover. My dread takes another 1 HP of damage (down to 1 HP remaining). For the life of him, Eric cannot take out any of my vehicles.
Finally, his PCS runs to contest my Crusade objective.
NecroKnights 5
Spoiler:
I am in trouble. This will be the last game turn due to time. I'm pretty sure Eric will be in range on his turn to contest or grab another 2 of my Crusade objectives with his blob squads. Thus, I need to kill off his unit of 3 guardsmen contesting my home Crusade objective.
He's also got his lone wolf dangerously close to contesting another of my Crusade objectives. My paladins will be forced to deal with him.
Emperor's Will is going to be a tie, unless I can shoot his troops off of his objective or he can shoot my warriors off of mine.
Finally, VP's are close. I need to continue wracking up those VP's.
Can I do it?
Night scythe zooms forwards and drops off my warriors as far as they can go. I am still too far from contesting his Emperor's Will objective.
I also make a mistake here. My brain must be mush today. We are playing Vangard Strike and my warriors are already in his deployment zone for Linebreaker. But for some inexplicable reason, I think that we are playing Dawn of War. So instead of shooting his troops on his objective, I run them forwards to try to grab Linebreaker, which I already have!
Here's the plan. Warriors will rapid-fire his contesting guardsmen to death. Dread and AB will go after his vendetta and/or his PCS for more VP's.
Dread climbs up on terrain to help with taking out his vendetta. Paladins will take care of the lone wolf.
Both night scythes are going to blow his infantry squad off of his EW objective. Had I not been so out of it, my warriors would have also helped to take out his infantry squad.
Objective #1 completed. Vendetta down (by my dreads).
VP's - Imperial Wolves: 2, NecroKnights: 4
AB fires at his PCS squad and kill 3. He passes Morale to deny my a VP. Objective #2 - fail.
My night scythes then fires at his infantry squad on his EW objective. They go-to-ground. I still kill about 5 or 6. They pass morale! Objective #3 - fail.
Finally, this one may be for the game. 5 warriors fire 10 rapid-fire shots at his 3 guardsmen contesting my Crusade objective. They go-to-ground. I kill 2. However, the closest guy is his sergeant and he successfully Look-Out-Sirs both wounds to the other guardsmen. He then passes morale! Doh! Objective #4 - fail!
Finally, my paladins assault his lone wolf and kill him. However, I get a crappy consolidate move and fail to make it to my far right objective by 2"! Objective #5 - fail!
I think I just gave Eric the win thanks to a very poor round for me.
Imperial Guards 5
Spoiler:
Last vendetta comes in. He goes after my warriors on both my EW and Crusade objective. Don't forget his vendettas have heavy bolters on them.
Both blob squads moves and then runs to contest my 2 Crusade objectives. Actually, since my paladins failed to consolidate back into range of my far-right objective, his blob squad is actually claiming that objective.
Vendettas unloads onto my warriors. They go-to-ground and I pass every single save.
We draw on Emperor's Will. His infantry squad and my warriors are both claiming our own EW objectives.
As for Crusade. I've got my paladins on 1 objective. We have 2 contested - blob contesting my dread and his guardsmen contesting my warriors. Eric has got 2 objectives - grey hunters on 1 and his blob squad on another that my paladins failed to contest (due to their poor consolidation roll). Thus Eric takes Crusade. If only I had managed to wipe out his contesting guardsmen or if my paladins had consolidated just a couple of inches further, we would have drew in Crusade. Sigh....
Neither of us get Warlord. Both of us get Linebreaker (my warriors, his guardsmen). So we are tied all the way through so far.
However, my opponent gets First Blood because of my stupid soladin who decided to land on his own teammates and then got himself impaled by a halberd.
That was all my opponent needed for a 16-14 win for his Imperial Wolves (though we miscalculated and reported it as 17-13 win).
Man, I am still kicking myself for a game that I could have won.
Minor Victory for the the Blob Mob Imperial Wolves!!!
I had this game! It was mine for the taking, but I just couldn't follow through. The game would have been different if even any 1 of the following was to happen:
1. If only I hadn't of mishapped and killed my own soladin, thus giving my opponent First Blood and the win.
2. If only I had been able to shoot down just 3 guardsmen contesting my objective.
3. If only my paladinstar consolidated a little further after killing his lone wolf, I would have been able to cover the far-right Crusade objective, thus denying my opponent that objective.
However, my game wasn't without its share of mistakes. I made a couple of bone-headed in-game mistakes and then a couple of mistakes upon hindsight after the game.
1. Forgetting that this was Big Guns and using Grand Strategy to make my dreads scoring.
2. Forgetting about the deployment when I tried to secure Linebreaker.
3. I was a little too impatient when sending my Overlord and troops after his objective. I just came in 36" with my flyer and then dropped them off. Rather, I should have taken the 2-turn approach. Basically, come in with my flyer and go after 1 of his vehicles. Then next turn, go after the objective and drop my guys off then. This would have ensured that I would make it to contesting range of his EW objective and I could have used the terrain to hide from his blob squad.
4. I should have focused on his 3 guardsmen contesting the objective my warriors were on. I fired my vehicles 1st and then my warriors last. I should have fired my warriors first and then if I needed to, fire at his guardsmen with my AB or dread. This was IMO the biggest mistake in the game that I made.
5. Not really a mistake, but this contributed to Eric's win.....he went 2nd and thus had the final say.
Congrats to Eric for playing a solid game. He made very few mistakes and had a solid strategy. His strategy was to split up his 2 blob mobs and go after the flanks. Thus, if my paladins committed to 1 flank, he could then grab the objectives on the other flank. Stuck between his 2 threats, I couldn't really play too aggressively or I might just find myself grossly out of position. Then again, my strategy was never really to go after his mob squads (I knew he was going to do that because that would've been how I'd play his army as well). Rather, I was quite content to guard the middle and to keep his guards away. So in a sense, he did play into my game. Unfortunately, with him going 2nd, he had the last say on the objective grabs/contesting and I just didn't have time to react to it. In short, he did to me what I've been doing to my other opponents.
So for the final round, suprisingly, Mike was our high scorer his round with 24-pts. Wraithwing's main weakness is psychic powers (and especially Jaws), so that matchup went well for Mike. Kevin had another solid outing. His tyranids turned a lot of heads this tournament as he won all 6 of his games. He came out of the round with 21-pts. Unfortunately, those were our only 2 wins this round. Brandon and I both barely lost, getting 10-pts and 13-pts (actually 14) respectively. Bill, who had been solid all tournament, finally had a bad game and basically got demolished by Kurt's eldau. Overall, we barely lost this round 71-79. We came in with quite a comfortable lead, but with this lost, there was a chance that the 3rd place team could surpass us if they somehow managed to win big against their opponent. Fortunately for us, they only won by a score of 92-58, which wasn't enough to get the job done.
So the final standings were:
1st - Fluffy Bunnies - 608 BP's
2nd - Wrecking BOLS - 578 BP's
3rd - Quality Control - 577 BP's
4th - Endless Gaming - 543 BP's
5th - 4 Horsemen and a Monkey - 530 BP's
Kevin, my teammate, was the Best Tyranid player. He was also the 7th best player overall. Very well done, Kevin.
Our teammate, Bill, was in the running for Best Daemon player but because of his last game, dropped down to be the 2nd best daemon player. He would end up ranking 30th overall.
Mike, my 4th round opponent (Endless Gaming), won the award for Best Chaos Space Marines player. He was also the 8th best player overall.
Eric, my 6th roundl opponent (Quality Control), won the award for Best Imperial Guards player. He was also ranked 31st overall.
Nick (Darkwynn from Wrecking BOLS) was the 2nd best player overall, however, he was only the 2nd best eldar player in the tournament.
Finally, there was me. For some reason, the TO's grouped all the marine players into just 1 category - Best Space Marines. That included space wolves, space marines, blood angels, grey knights, dark angels and all the other marine armies (except Sisters, who had their own category). The top 2 "space marine" players were actually space wolves players. Officially, I was the 3rd best space marine player. Unofficially, I was the Best Grey Knight player (had the award existed) and placed 32nd overall (I was actually tied with Eric overall).
In any case, I was estatic that our team had won. I was slightly disappointed in my performance in my 2 losses, but I'm not going to complain. Both were close games that I could have won. But here we were, just a group of guys who had never played together before (at least for the majority of us). We came into this tournament and we almost beat all of the best teams in the tournament. I'd especially like to congratulate my teammate, Kevin, for bringing such consistency to the team (and of all armies, with tyranids!). I'd also like to thank Mike for being our punching bag in these series of games. He had some of the tougher matchups as he was, for the most part, our sacrificial army, yet he still managed to do well, averaging almost 16-pts per game.
I would like to conclude my report with a picture of our team and our trophies. Thanks, dakkalites, for dropping in to take a look at my reports.
From left to right: Kevin (Janthkin), Brandon, Mike, Bill, Jim (Jy2)
Many that list of his looks like a mountain to climb. 50 man blobs that can GTG behind an aegis line... I don't know how well your list can deal with that. All he really has to do is make sure that he get 4 good shots with his manticores and keep those vendetta's pumping out shots while those two blobs hold his home objectives.
I predict that your overlord does some serious work this game though.
Also I have to commend you on all of your batreps so far. I very much enjoy reading your batreps and this tournament has been some of your best work yet, keep them coming!
GrayOwl wrote: Many that list of his looks like a mountain to climb. 50 man blobs that can GTG behind an aegis line... I don't know how well your list can deal with that. All he really has to do is make sure that he get 4 good shots with his manticores and keep those vendetta's pumping out shots while those two blobs hold his home objectives.
I predict that your overlord does some serious work this game though.
Also I have to commend you on all of your batreps so far. I very much enjoy reading your batreps and this tournament has been some of your best work yet, keep them coming!
Owl
The paladins just need to make it into assault with the blobs. They can happily sit there until the end of the game and contest the objectives. Power axes are not really terrifying when they might get one swing (if that) before being in wounding range. Even if they get more, WS3 at S4 is not too scary. Being in combat also keeps the paladins from being targeted by lascannons or manticores.
GrayOwl wrote: Many that list of his looks like a mountain to climb. 50 man blobs that can GTG behind an aegis line... I don't know how well your list can deal with that. All he really has to do is make sure that he get 4 good shots with his manticores and keep those vendetta's pumping out shots while those two blobs hold his home objectives.
I predict that your overlord does some serious work this game though.
Also I have to commend you on all of your batreps so far. I very much enjoy reading your batreps and this tournament has been some of your best work yet, keep them coming!
Owl
The paladins just need to make it into assault with the blobs. They can happily sit there until the end of the game and contest the objectives. Power axes are not really terrifying when they might get one swing (if that) before being in wounding range. Even if they get more, WS3 at S4 is not too scary. Being in combat also keeps the paladins from being targeted by lascannons or manticores.
Remember each power axe will get 3 attacks with likely rerolls due to precience. + the blob will likely get to shoot at least once before the paladins get into combat. Thats 100+ shot with rerolls. The paladins might go down to sheer weight of fire.
Having played guard for a while I know that the bucket of dice a blob throws feels awesome when you start. Then you figure out wounds and watch your opponent make 2+ armor saves and you feel sad that you wasted all that time rolling all those dice.
GrayOwl wrote: Many that list of his looks like a mountain to climb. 50 man blobs that can GTG behind an aegis line... I don't know how well your list can deal with that. All he really has to do is make sure that he get 4 good shots with his manticores and keep those vendetta's pumping out shots while those two blobs hold his home objectives.
I predict that your overlord does some serious work this game though.
Also I have to commend you on all of your batreps so far. I very much enjoy reading your batreps and this tournament has been some of your best work yet, keep them coming!
Owl
I won't be able to take on both of his blob squads, unless he foolishly brings them both into the threat range of my paladins. Thus, I'm not going to even try. I really don't need to.
Overlord won't do much to his blob squads. The Overlord is used to pick off easy units like the manticores or his command squads or any unit not blobbed up, though I have a feeling that in order to get to them, I'm going to have to put my Overlord into the threat range of his blob.
GrayOwl wrote: Many that list of his looks like a mountain to climb. 50 man blobs that can GTG behind an aegis line... I don't know how well your list can deal with that. All he really has to do is make sure that he get 4 good shots with his manticores and keep those vendetta's pumping out shots while those two blobs hold his home objectives.
I predict that your overlord does some serious work this game though.
Also I have to commend you on all of your batreps so far. I very much enjoy reading your batreps and this tournament has been some of your best work yet, keep them coming!
Owl
The paladins just need to make it into assault with the blobs. They can happily sit there until the end of the game and contest the objectives. Power axes are not really terrifying when they might get one swing (if that) before being in wounding range. Even if they get more, WS3 at S4 is not too scary. Being in combat also keeps the paladins from being targeted by lascannons or manticores.
The problem with being in combat with them is this. I kill a lot. He then fails Morale and breaks off (cannot be swept). He then auto-regroups next turn and now he's going to have 2 blob squads FRF!SRF! my paladins.
And for those who don't know, ATSKNF (from the Rune Priests) + blob squads = really good.
Remember each power axe will get 3 attacks with likely rerolls due to precience. + the blob will likely get to shoot at least once before the paladins get into combat. Thats 100+ shot with rerolls. The paladins might go down to sheer weight of fire.
Assault is not an issue. I have no fear of his assault. The problem is getting them to stay in assault and not run away only to regroup next turn and have his entire army light up my paladinstar.
bogalubov wrote: Having played guard for a while I know that the bucket of dice a blob throws feels awesome when you start. Then you figure out wounds and watch your opponent make 2+ armor saves and you feel sad that you wasted all that time rolling all those dice.
I've had both good and experiences playing both as and against guards. I've been in games where their shooting didn't really do much because they're wounding on 5's against 2+ models. I've also been in games where their shooting did a scary amount of damage and lots of 1's were rolled on saves. It really depends on the dice.
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TheKbob wrote: Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading the reports, I usually don't like them. Very well done!
I'm qualified for the Feast Invitational, but will probably attend the open with my own Draigo list. I thought I was being dumb by building one in sixth! I'm painting now, but my banner bro is definitely getting a magnet and an apothecary upgrade. Also, going to paint one of my Coteaz models, too.
I probably won't get play testing in prior to competition, so good primer for me too in DW tactics. I'm running a theme army (you won't miss mine if you come, trust me ) so no Necrons for me
Though, I own all those models. Going to have some fun locally with your take on the DW!
Congratulations on the win.
Too bad I won't be going to the Feast of Blades this way, though I have played against the FoB winner from last year before.
One of the biggest weaknesses of Draigowing is their lack of mobility. That was the main reason for the necron allies. If you go pure GK's, then consider a couple of soladins for late game deepstrikes onto enemy objectives/territory. Also, make sure to use Draigo's Psychic Communion to manipulate reserves. I've found it to be very helpful in these series, especially when I want to protect my dreads from opposing alpha-strikes.
jy2 wrote: The problem with being in combat with them is this. I kill a lot. He then fails Morale and breaks off (cannot be swept). He then auto-regroups next turn and now he's going to have 2 blob squads FRF!SRF! my paladins.
And for those who don't know, ATSKNF (from the Rune Priests) + blob squads = really good.
Forgot that terminators can't sweep. If Coteaz was with them he could sweep as his armor is merely artificer. I guess that just risks him getting killed though.
jy2 wrote: The problem with being in combat with them is this. I kill a lot. He then fails Morale and breaks off (cannot be swept). He then auto-regroups next turn and now he's going to have 2 blob squads FRF!SRF! my paladins.
And for those who don't know, ATSKNF (from the Rune Priests) + blob squads = really good.
Forgot that terminators can't sweep. If Coteaz was with them he could sweep as his armor is merely artificer. I guess that just risks him getting killed though.
Except that if one model in a unit cannot Sweep, then nobody in the unit can sweep.
hyv3mynd wrote: Even 100 shots with rerolls is:
75 hits
25 wounds
4 failed saves
3 failed FnP 1.5 dead pallies or a scratch on draigo.
Paladins being multi wound brings a whole nother dimension to their innate survivability. That's one thing that makes them still good.
Jim - Paul won a GWGT with his Blood Angels. I believe it was either in Atlanta or Baltimore.
Necrons and Grey Knights are a great combination but I think both codices are starting to show their age now. You have shown repeatable times here they can still get the job done though.
hyv3mynd wrote: Even 100 shots with rerolls is:
75 hits
25 wounds
4 failed saves
3 failed FnP 1.5 dead pallies or a scratch on draigo.
Paladins being multi wound brings a whole nother dimension to their innate survivability. That's one thing that makes them still good.
Jim - Paul won a GWGT with his Blood Angels. I believe it was either in Atlanta or Baltimore.
Necrons and Grey Knights are a great combination but I think both codices are starting to show their age now. You have shown repeatable times here they can still get the job done though.
My four armies are Wolves, Cron, GK, and Sisters. So basically the last four of 5th Edition. It makes me sad if people think GK and Necrons still can't hold their own.
Plus, surprise sisters is ALWAYS fun. I learned the hard way (twice) that Necrons are not their friend, though.
GK and necrons are still decent armies, with necrons certainly being very strong. They have, however, been superseded decisively by Tau and Eldar as the NOVA results show.
My four armies are Wolves, Cron, GK, and Sisters. So basically the last four of 5th Edition. It makes me sad if people think GK and Necrons still can't hold their own.
Plus, surprise sisters is ALWAYS fun. I learned the hard way (twice) that Necrons are not their friend, though.
Actually, there was 1 Sisters player at the ATC. Want to venture a guess as to who won the Best Sisters player award?
Wolves, crons and GK are all still pretty good. Crons IMO are still top-tier. Wolves and GK's are upper-middle to lower-top tier, but when you throw in allies to them, especially cron and IG allies, IMO they become top-tier as well.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: GK and necrons are still decent armies, with necrons certainly being very strong. They have, however, been superseded decisively by Tau and Eldar as the NOVA results show.
I still believe necrons belong right up there with Tau and Eldar . However, people just don't run them as often in tournament play anymore as they used to. Actually, a lot of the top players have switched over to tau and/or eldar. That's really what NOVA is showing. A lot of the top players who went to NOVA the previous year with different armies have switched over to Taudar/Eldau/etc. this year.
Talore wrote: Oh look, another top-tier player with Imperial Guard choices that very few internet people would approve of. Mortars! Sniper rifles!
I'm really excited to see how this one plays out!
BTW, my opponent for this game, Eric, ended up winning the award for Best Imperial Guards player.
Mythantor wrote: Im guessing he's using the snipers to extend the range of the damage he can do.
Single sniper in there means he can take of models beyond 24" away when he lights up a squad.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: GK and necrons are still decent armies, with necrons certainly being very strong. They have, however, been superseded decisively by Tau and Eldar as the NOVA results show.
I still believe necrons belong right up there with Tau and Eldar . However, people just don't run them as often in tournament play anymore as they used to. Actually, a lot of the top players have switched over to tau and/or eldar. That's really what NOVA is showing. A lot of the top players who went to NOVA the previous year with different armies have switched over to Taudar/Eldau/etc. this year.
Whilst that is certainly true, I believe it is this very change in the meta which is hurting Necrons. They have always had difficulty with eliminating MCs at range, and wraiths cannot do the job by themselves. The NOVA winning list, for example, featured 4 riptides, two of which were in a combined unit with farsight and a buffmander. This new emphasis on MC spam, with 3 riptide becoming the norm for tourney tau lists really damages necron viability in my opinion. The tactical utility of Nightscythes is also greatly diminished when you have to spend a turn skulking along the board edge to avoid all the interceptor fire from tau lines.
I want to thank you for the report on the tournament from the eyes of your team. It's been a great read and the reports for each game are in depth enough to know how it's going yet not overly wordy.
I've been following it each day in the hopes that there is an update!
Great reports all the way through. Thank you for sharing your experience at the ATC and congrats on the dominating win on your first appearance there. Your team concept and composition are really cool, with 2k and the way matchups work in the ATC it makes for some extreme lists that are also very thematic. Great pictures and tactical insights throughout make your reports not just entertaining but very informative. Thanks!
I have to say, I really like the objective setup in this tournament. It seemed like it helped out your Draicronic Measures quite a bit but was pretty balanced for everybody.
I recently took a modified version of your list (1750 instead of 2k) up against a friend's Eldar. He was running an all Bikes/Warp-spiders list and we ended up rolling The Relic, which turned out really well for him since he could force me to chase him around the table. I lost 3-1, but it was close up until about Turn 5 where all I could do was deny him the Relic. (It would have been a draw if I had managed to get First-blood, but he rolled like 13/14 3+ saves on my first round of shooting).
The positional dominance strategy is really solid though. Once you get those Paladins into position, it takes a lot to move them away and with so many objectives (and not many kill points to boot) your method of holding the center of the board is really fantastic. Hopefully I'll get better at using it myself
Lord Arturius wrote: I want to thank you for the report on the tournament from the eyes of your team. It's been a great read and the reports for each game are in depth enough to know how it's going yet not overly wordy.
I've been following it each day in the hopes that there is an update!
I second that. This has been a superb read. I always learn loads from reading your reports but this has been the best education so far due to the range of opponents you've played
I can tell how upset with your play in the last game you are JY2, but I gotta say, you're playing the best players around on a constant basis, feel good man you did awesome IMHO!
Awesome report series jy2. You played great, barring a few minor mistakes that everyone would make.
Couple of questions for Janthkin rather than yourself.
1) who was his MVP unit? 2) introduction of the Mawloc, I like it, how'd it do? And 3) what was the worst performing unit for him?
Finally, one question for you. How come you charged the lone wolf in the last game? Tara the move that took you out of reach to control/contest 2 other objectives. Would it have been better for you to await his change so you wouldn't have had to move so far from where they were placed?
I really enjoy your battle reports and gaming expertise. Congratulations on taking first!
What an epic road! Thanks for the tourney report jy2 awesome as usual, and congrats on the team win. I thought you had that last game against eric but such is life haha.
Brilliant congrats on the victory! and thanks for the reports gave me something to look forward to in the day (yes my life has no meaning haha) look forward to seeing more
Thanks for writing all that up, Jim. There really wasn't the opportunity to watch any of my teammates in action; it's good to see how your games went down.
roxor08 wrote: Couple of questions for Janthkin rather than yourself.
1) who was his MVP unit? 2) introduction of the Mawloc, I like it, how'd it do? And 3) what was the worst performing unit for him?
Lessee:
1) No MVP. Every game was significantly different - a unit that shined in one was nearly irrelevant in some of the others. If I had to pick one, it's (collectively) my Termagants. Scoring units were always useful in the ATC mission, plus I usually spawned enough of them to be effective.
2) The Mawloc was hit-or-miss across the games. 3 of them, it was somewhere between useful & essential; the other 3, it was, at best, a bullet sponge. It works okay at 2k pts, where you can afford a unit that isn't always efficient. (It does pair well with Enfeeble against Paladins, though!)
3) Much as I can't pick an MVP, I can't really pick a worst unit. Swarmy died a few times, but usually only when I offered him up as a distraction. My gargoyles were usually great, except in the game against triple-wraithknight eldar, where I lost 30/33 of them before I got a turn. The Mawloc, as mentioned, was fantastic in 2 games, okay in a 3rd, and essentially extraneous in the other 3. The Ymgarl were usually awesome, except when they weren't. The Doom was pretty solid across 5 of the games, but only really excelled twice.
So basically, I had the tools I needed when I needed them. It worked out.
Janthkin wrote: Thanks for writing all that up, Jim. There really wasn't the opportunity to watch any of my teammates in action; it's good to see how your games went down.
roxor08 wrote: Couple of questions for Janthkin rather than yourself.
1) who was his MVP unit? 2) introduction of the Mawloc, I like it, how'd it do? And 3) what was the worst performing unit for him?
Lessee:
1) No MVP. Every game was significantly different - a unit that shined in one was nearly irrelevant in some of the others. If I had to pick one, it's (collectively) my Termagants. Scoring units were always useful in the ATC mission, plus I usually spawned enough of them to be effective.
2) The Mawloc was hit-or-miss across the games. 3 of them, it was somewhere between useful & essential; the other 3, it was, at best, a bullet sponge. It works okay at 2k pts, where you can afford a unit that isn't always efficient. (It does pair well with Enfeeble against Paladins, though!)
3) Much as I can't pick an MVP, I can't really pick a worst unit. Swarmy died a few times, but usually only when I offered him up as a distraction. My gargoyles were usually great, except in the game against triple-wraithknight eldar, where I lost 30/33 of them before I got a turn. The Mawloc, as mentioned, was fantastic in 2 games, okay in a 3rd, and essentially extraneous in the other 3. The Ymgarl were usually awesome, except when they weren't. The Doom was pretty solid across 5 of the games, but only really excelled twice.
So basically, I had the tools I needed when I needed them. It worked out.
Did you find running Swarmy over the double flyrants helped or hindered you? Obviously it'll be impossible to know for sure. But I see a lot of people going back to Swarmy right now just for his presence in the backfield and ability to deal with anything in CC.
Any great stories of Swarmy chopping up an important unit? Sorry not sure if you are doing your own battle report!?
First off, I would like to thank the readers for their patience. I apologize for taking so long to finish these series of report, but I wanted to make sure my standard of quality was there and also because I've been busy at work lately.
And thank you all for your kind words. I hope you guys have had as much fun reading about my experiences as I have had participating in the event and then writing about it.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: GK and necrons are still decent armies, with necrons certainly being very strong. They have, however, been superseded decisively by Tau and Eldar as the NOVA results show.
I still believe necrons belong right up there with Tau and Eldar . However, people just don't run them as often in tournament play anymore as they used to. Actually, a lot of the top players have switched over to tau and/or eldar. That's really what NOVA is showing. A lot of the top players who went to NOVA the previous year with different armies have switched over to Taudar/Eldau/etc. this year.
Whilst that is certainly true, I believe it is this very change in the meta which is hurting Necrons. They have always had difficulty with eliminating MCs at range, and wraiths cannot do the job by themselves. The NOVA winning list, for example, featured 4 riptides, two of which were in a combined unit with farsight and a buffmander. This new emphasis on MC spam, with 3 riptide becoming the norm for tourney tau lists really damages necron viability in my opinion. The tactical utility of Nightscythes is also greatly diminished when you have to spend a turn skulking along the board edge to avoid all the interceptor fire from tau lines.
While I don't have data from the recent Nova tournament, here is some info to consider from the ATC - how did the top 10 necron players fare against all those Tau and/or Eldau players? Here, I will only be considering armies where Necrons, Eldar or Tau are the primary armies.
1. Tim Gorham (Wraithwing crons very similar to my own): 3-0, 28 vs Eldar, 28 vs Eldar, 20 vs Taudar
2. Jeff O'Neal (Necron Airforce + scarabs): 3-0, 25 vs Eldar, 30 vs Eldar, 22 vs Eldar + GK's
3. Andy Ford (Semi-Airforce w/Royal Court + AB's): 1-0, 18 vs Taudar
4. Michael Lee (Wraithwing crons + Ghazzy Orks): 1-1, 2 vs Taudar (Brandon, my teammate), 27 vs Eldau (Kurt from QC)
5. Chip Brown (Necron Airforce w/Immotekh): 1-0, 30 vs Tau
6. Glenn Jeffrey (Wraithwing crons): 2-1, 5 vs Eldar, 21 vs Tau, 24 vs Footdar
7. David Pease (Hybrid Necrons): 0-2, 1 vs Taudar, 11 vs Tau
8. Jimmy Borolivos (Wraithwing crons similar to my own): DNP against Tau or Eldar
9. Nick March (Necrons + CSM w/Black Mace DP): 1-0, 30 vs Eldar
10. Neil Gilstrap (Necron Airforce): 0-2, 0 vs Tau, 10 vs Tau
So overall, Necrons are 12-6 against the forces of Tau and Eldar. So what does that mean? Absolutely nothing....other than the fact that necrons can give both Tau an Eldar a run for their money, at least at the ATC.
Xca|iber wrote: I have to say, I really like the objective setup in this tournament. It seemed like it helped out your Draicronic Measures quite a bit but was pretty balanced for everybody.
I recently took a modified version of your list (1750 instead of 2k) up against a friend's Eldar. He was running an all Bikes/Warp-spiders list and we ended up rolling The Relic, which turned out really well for him since he could force me to chase him around the table. I lost 3-1, but it was close up until about Turn 5 where all I could do was deny him the Relic. (It would have been a draw if I had managed to get First-blood, but he rolled like 13/14 3+ saves on my first round of shooting).
The positional dominance strategy is really solid though. Once you get those Paladins into position, it takes a lot to move them away and with so many objectives (and not many kill points to boot) your method of holding the center of the board is really fantastic. Hopefully I'll get better at using it myself
Yeah, the way the tournament was, I think that my army made for a really good defensive army. I've got the resiliency to last against most armies and can just hold my ground with my paladins and still get the win. For most of the tournament, my strategy was to hold the middle, defend my home objective and try to contest my opponent's objectives. Even if I wasn't able to contest his objective, I still had the advantage in that I was holding 2/3 of the objectives most of the time and it was up to my opponents to contest or shift my paladins away from their objectives.
Biker armies are tough to play against in the Relic missions. That is because they can still turbo-boost (though only 6") after picking up the Relic. Fast armies can deal with them better (i.e. wraithwing crons, daemons) but slower armies like Draigowing have a much harder time. At least you stayed close until the end. BTW, here's a tip for you. When playing against biker armies in the Relic, if you are going first, give your paladins Scout from Grand Strategy. That is almost an auto-win scenario for you.
Stormbreed wrote: I can tell how upset with your play in the last game you are JY2, but I gotta say, you're playing the best players around on a constant basis, feel good man you did awesome IMHO!
Thanks. I do feel good. While I did make some mistakes, the end result wasn't that bad. I still managed to keep it close.
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roxor08 wrote: Awesome report series jy2. You played great, barring a few minor mistakes that everyone would make.
Couple of questions for Janthkin rather than yourself.
1) who was his MVP unit? 2) introduction of the Mawloc, I like it, how'd it do? And 3) what was the worst performing unit for him?
Finally, one question for you. How come you charged the lone wolf in the last game? Tara the move that took you out of reach to control/contest 2 other objectives. Would it have been better for you to await his change so you wouldn't have had to move so far from where they were placed?
I really enjoy your battle reports and gaming expertise. Congratulations on taking first!
I charged his lone wolf because:
1) If I didn't, he might have got into range to contest or
2) he could have assaulted my paladinstar, contesting my central objective anyways and pulling my paladins off of my far-right objective anyways. Since my guys were spread out, there was a good chance that not everyone would be able to consolidate in and attack his lone wolf, which meant he had chance to survive. However, by assaulting him, I get more guys into assault range (not to mention the +1A on the charge).
I was banking on killing him in assault and then consolidating onto my far-right objective. I thought that was the play with the higher chance of success. It just didn' work out.
jy2 wrote: First off, I would like to thank the readers for their patience. I apologize for taking so long to finish these series of report, but I wanted to make sure my standard of quality was there and also because I've been busy at work lately.
And thank you all for your kind words. I hope you guys have had as much fun reading about my experiences as I have had participating in the event and then writing about it.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: GK and necrons are still decent armies, with necrons certainly being very strong. They have, however, been superseded decisively by Tau and Eldar as the NOVA results show.
I still believe necrons belong right up there with Tau and Eldar . However, people just don't run them as often in tournament play anymore as they used to. Actually, a lot of the top players have switched over to tau and/or eldar. That's really what NOVA is showing. A lot of the top players who went to NOVA the previous year with different armies have switched over to Taudar/Eldau/etc. this year.
Whilst that is certainly true, I believe it is this very change in the meta which is hurting Necrons. They have always had difficulty with eliminating MCs at range, and wraiths cannot do the job by themselves. The NOVA winning list, for example, featured 4 riptides, two of which were in a combined unit with farsight and a buffmander. This new emphasis on MC spam, with 3 riptide becoming the norm for tourney tau lists really damages necron viability in my opinion. The tactical utility of Nightscythes is also greatly diminished when you have to spend a turn skulking along the board edge to avoid all the interceptor fire from tau lines.
While I don't have data from the recent Nova tournament, here is some info to consider from the ATC - how did the top 10 necron players fare against all those Tau and/or Eldau players? Here, I will only be considering armies where Necrons, Eldar or Tau are the primary armies.
1. Tim Gorham (Wraithwing crons very similar to my own): 3-0, 28 vs Eldar, 28 vs Eldar, 20 vs Taudar
2. Jeff O'Neal (Necron Airforce + scarabs): 3-0, 25 vs Eldar, 30 vs Eldar, 22 vs Eldar + GK's
3. Andy Ford (Semi-Airforce w/Royal Court + AB's): 1-0, 18 vs Taudar
4. Michael Lee (Wraithwing crons + Ghazzy Orks): 1-1, 2 vs Taudar (Brandon, my teammate), 27 vs Eldau (Kurt from QC)
5. Chip Brown (Necron Airforce w/Immotekh): 1-0, 30 vs Tau
6. Glenn Jeffrey (Wraithwing crons): 2-1, 5 vs Eldar, 21 vs Tau, 24 vs Footdar
7. David Pease (Hybrid Necrons): 0-2, 1 vs Taudar, 11 vs Tau
8. Jimmy Borolivos (Wraithwing crons similar to my own): DNP against Tau or Eldar
9. Nick March (Necrons + CSM w/Black Mace DP): 1-0, 30 vs Eldar
10. Neil Gilstrap (Necron Airforce): 0-2, 0 vs Tau, 10 vs Tau
So overall, Necrons are 12-6 against the forces of Tau and Eldar. So what does that mean? Absolutely nothing....other than the fact that necrons can give both Tau an Eldar a run for their money, at least at the ATC.
I concede that necrons can give tau/eldar a fight, however, to be fair you did look at the top 10 necron players, not the majority, I would be intrigued to see the results for the top 10 Taudar players vs necrons.
For the sake of completeness, here are the NOVA results for the top 10 necron players with crons as primary.
1. Ben Mohile 2-2 vs Tau/Eldar
2.Werner Born 1-0 vs Tau//Eldar
3.Leigh Brady 3-1 vs Tau/Eldar
4. Stephen Burris 0-3 vs Tau/Eldar
5. Michael Walsh 2-1 vs Tau/Eldar
6. James Dalton 1-2 vs Tau/Eldar
7. Robert Fortin 2-3 vs Tau/Eldar
8.David Rodriguez 0-0 (no games vs them)
9.Andrew Ford 0-0 (no games)
10. Jeremy Chamblee 0-0 (no games)
The best of the necron players at NOVA ended with 11-12 vs Tau/Eldar.
Out of the top 5 of NOVA, all were tau or eldar players.
Out of the top 10, all but 2 were tau or eldar players, with the top scoring necron player ending at 10.
I concede that necrons can give tau/eldar a fight, however, to be fair you did look at the top 10 necron players, not the majority, I would be intrigued to see the results for the top 10 Taudar players vs necrons.
For the sake of completeness, here are the NOVA results for the top 10 necron players with crons as primary.
1. Ben Mohile 2-2 vs Tau/Eldar
2.Werner Born 1-0 vs Tau//Eldar
3.Leigh Brady 3-1 vs Tau/Eldar
4. Stephen Burris 0-3 vs Tau/Eldar
5. Michael Walsh 2-1 vs Tau/Eldar
6. James Dalton 1-2 vs Tau/Eldar
7. Robert Fortin 2-3 vs Tau/Eldar
8.David Rodriguez 0-0 (no games vs them)
9.Andrew Ford 0-0 (no games)
10. Jeremy Chamblee 0-0 (no games)
The best of the necron players at NOVA ended with 11-12 vs Tau/Eldar.
Out of the top 5 of NOVA, all were tau or eldar players.
Out of the top 10, all but 2 were tau or eldar players, with the top scoring necron player ending at 10.
Thanks for the research. You saved me a lot of time.
There's no question that Eldar and Tau are top-tier armies. Even at the ATC, Tau and Eldar dominated. Each army took 3 spots in the top 10, including 1st, 2nd and 3rd places.
There were 2 things which I wanted to show, though I was only able to show 1 thing due to lack of info.
1. Head-to-head matchups between necrons and tau/eldar. At the ATC, crons actually did better in head-to-head action. At Nova, they just about tied with tau/eldar. This is actually what I expected. Why? That is because at the ATC, the top necron players are less likely to play against the top eldar/tau players due to the team format. At Nova, the top necron players are more likely to play against the top eldar/tau players in a process of elimination by the W/L records of the armies.
2. This I was not able to demonstrate due to lack of info. I couldn't find the lists/armies of players from NOVA 2012. I wanted to show the shift in armies - the number of necron players at Nova last year who switched armies this year and the number of players who were running different armies last year and switched to Tau/Eldar this year. Now this is based on memory only (and thus could be wrong), but some of the changes I seemed to recall include:
Alex Fennel played Necrons + Grey Knights last year. This year he ran Eldau.
Neil Gilstrip last year - Necrons. This year - Tau/Tau.
Jeremy Veysseire last year - Sisters of Battle. This year - Taudar.
Kurt Clauss last year - Necrons. This year - Eldau.
Aaron Aleong last year - GK/IG. This year - Eldau.
Eric Hoerger last year - Necrons. This year - Eldar.
Allan Hernandez last year - Draigowing. This year - Eldau.
You can probably see where I am going with this. Many players (more specifically, many of the top players) who were running necrons last year are running Tau/Eldar this year. Not just that, but many non-necron players have shifted towards Tau/Eldar this year as well. Thus, the migration of many of the top players to Tau/Eldar combined with the strength of those 2 codices invariably led to the domination of Tau/Eldar in tournament play. The same thing happened with Necrons last year and with the Grey Knights the year before. However, that doesn't mean that necrons are relegated to a 2nd tier army. As the results from the 2 tournaments show, crons can still hold their own with the best of the best. There's just a lot less of them (necrons) this year due to the migration of the players to the newer armies (Chaos included).
I concede that necrons can give tau/eldar a fight, however, to be fair you did look at the top 10 necron players, not the majority, I would be intrigued to see the results for the top 10 Taudar players vs necrons.
For the sake of completeness, here are the NOVA results for the top 10 necron players with crons as primary.
1. Ben Mohile 2-2 vs Tau/Eldar
2.Werner Born 1-0 vs Tau//Eldar
3.Leigh Brady 3-1 vs Tau/Eldar
4. Stephen Burris 0-3 vs Tau/Eldar
5. Michael Walsh 2-1 vs Tau/Eldar
6. James Dalton 1-2 vs Tau/Eldar
7. Robert Fortin 2-3 vs Tau/Eldar
8.David Rodriguez 0-0 (no games vs them)
9.Andrew Ford 0-0 (no games)
10. Jeremy Chamblee 0-0 (no games)
The best of the necron players at NOVA ended with 11-12 vs Tau/Eldar.
Out of the top 5 of NOVA, all were tau or eldar players.
Out of the top 10, all but 2 were tau or eldar players, with the top scoring necron player ending at 10.
Thanks for the research. You saved me a lot of time.
There's no question that Eldar and Tau are top-tier armies. Even at the ATC, Tau and Eldar dominated. Each army took 3 spots in the top 10, including 1st, 2nd and 3rd places.
There were 2 things which I wanted to show, though I was only able to show 1 thing due to lack of info.
1. Head-to-head matchups between necrons and tau/eldar. At the ATC, crons actually did better in head-to-head action. At Nova, they just about tied with tau/eldar. This is actually what I expected. Why? That is because at the ATC, the top necron players are less likely to play against the top eldar/tau players due to the team format. At Nova, the top necron players are more likely to play against the top eldar/tau players in a process of elimination by the W/L records of the armies.
2. This I was not able to demonstrate due to lack of info. I couldn't find the lists/armies of players from NOVA 2012. I wanted to show the shift in armies - the number of necron players at Nova last year who switched armies this year and the number of players who were running different armies last year and switched to Tau/Eldar this year. Now this is based on memory only (and thus could be wrong), but some of the changes I seemed to recall include:
Alex Fennel played Necrons + Grey Knights last year. This year he ran Eldau.
Neil Gilstrip last year - Necrons. This year - Tau/Tau.
Jeremy Veysseire last year - Sisters of Battle. This year - Taudar.
Kurt Clauss last year - Necrons. This year - Eldau.
Aaron Aleong last year - GK/IG. This year - Eldau.
Eric Hoerger last year - Necrons. This year - Eldar.
Allan Hernandez last year - Draigowing. This year - Eldau.
You can probably see where I am going with this. Many players (more specifically, many of the top players) who were running necrons last year are running Tau/Eldar this year. Not just that, but many non-necron players have shifted towards Tau/Eldar this year as well. Thus, the migration of many of the top players to Tau/Eldar combined with the strength of those 2 codices invariably led to the domination of Tau/Eldar in tournament play. The same thing happened with Necrons last year and with the Grey Knights the year before. However, that doesn't mean that necrons are relegated to a 2nd tier army. As the results from the 2 tournaments show, crons can still hold their own with the best of the best. There's just a lot less of them (necrons) this year due to the migration of the players to the newer armies (Chaos included).
That is true, many top players opt for the flavor-of-the-month armies and this would certainly affect the results. There is no doubt that necrons are still strong, I never suggested they were not. Merely that they were no longer on top, having been surpassed by Tau and Eldar.
In any case, congratulations with your own success in this tournament with a less-played force.
Which is why they remain on top. The game is too random to not play the best codex and expect to stay on top fort very long.
Also these results are meaningless because the same players are all playing the same few armies. You would need a massive sample size for any of the data to be worth anything. A few top tens means nothing except that the same few people are all chasing the newest codexes.
Necrons are still good. I still play them to a lot of success. Necrons w/ Chaos. I feel, however, that you need both an Overlord and D. Lord (w/ Orb) to beat Tau and Eldar.
The Overlord is essential for gaining access to Haywire Teks vs. Eldar. They turn a bad matchup into a really good one.
The D. Lord is necessary for keeping the Wraiths alive against the ridiculous firepower of those two armies. Typhus is also essential in this role, keeping Zombies alive to hold midfield, giving you board control and forcing them to come to you.
You have to be willing to make the smart sacrifice with your tanking characters. Clever use of reserves is also a must.
Basically, it ain't easy, but Necrons got game against the new hotness. It helps that they can still easily crush older codices.
Also, I know Brandon Valley personally, and I have to say I strongly disagree with the way you portrayed him in your report. He is an excellent player, who has been having success with multiple armies for quite a long time. Most notably with his heavily converted and excellently painted Legion of the Damned counts-as White Scars/Ravenwing army. He is by NO means the "new guy winning games only because he is using the two newest codices," as you so put it. EXTREMELY disappointing coming from yourself. Placing well at a few tournaments spamming Wraiths and calling Nick Nanavati's list your own doesn't earn you the right to talk down other players.
You might try getting to know your own teammates before dissing them on the internet.
hippesthippo wrote: Also, I know Brandon Valley personally, and I have to say I strongly disagree with the way you portrayed him in your report. He is an excellent player, who has been having success with multiple armies for quite a long time. Most notably with his heavily converted and excellently painted Legion of the Damned counts-as White Scars/Ravenwing army. He is by NO means the "new guy winning games only because he is using the two newest codices," as you so put it. EXTREMELY disappointing coming from yourself. Placing well at a few tournaments spamming Wraiths and calling Nick Nanavati's list your own doesn't earn you the right to talk down other players.
You might try getting to know your own teammates before dissing them on the internet.
Wow, way to overreact to an innocuous, neutral comment. Might want to take a break from the internet if you're twisting words to perceive things as shots and then insulting jy2 in return.
This year, our team - Team Fluffy Bunnies - consisted of 2 returning veterans - Mike and Brandon - along with 3 new players - Kevin (aka Janthkin), Bill (aka Centurion99) and Jim (that' me!, aka jy2). Mike and Brandon were actually the runner-ups to last year's 2-time defending champions, Wrecking BLOS
"A returning veteran, scoring second place last year." Such a scathing insult!
Perhaps, but he does it more than once throughout the report. He does this with Eric Hoerger as well.
I simply find the way he dismisses other players while raising himself up to be extremely distasteful. Doubly so when they happen to be local acquaintances of mine. I don't believe that to be unfair.
I've met Jy2, and believe him to be a very pleasant and intelligent person. I just didn't particularly care for all of the self-aggrandizement sprinkled throughout the report.
So even if you aren't just jumping at shadows (which is doubtful) you think it is distasteful to 'self-aggrandize' but not distasteful to waltz into his thread, throw a fit, and straight-up insult him? Mature.
hippesthippo wrote: Necrons are still good. I still play them to a lot of success. Necrons w/ Chaos. I feel, however, that you need both an Overlord and D. Lord (w/ Orb) to beat Tau and Eldar.
The Overlord is essential for gaining access to Haywire Teks vs. Eldar. They turn a bad matchup into a really good one.
The D. Lord is necessary for keeping the Wraiths alive against the ridiculous firepower of those two armies. Typhus is also essential in this role, keeping Zombies alive to hold midfield, giving you board control and forcing them to come to you.
You have to be willing to make the smart sacrifice with your tanking characters. Clever use of reserves is also a must.
Basically, it ain't easy, but Necrons got game against the new hotness. It helps that they can still easily crush older codices.
Also, I know Brandon Valley personally, and I have to say I strongly disagree with the way you portrayed him in your report. He is an excellent player, who has been having success with multiple armies for quite a long time. Most notably with his heavily converted and excellently painted Legion of the Damned counts-as White Scars/Ravenwing army. He is by NO means the "new guy winning games only because he is using the two newest codices," as you so put it. EXTREMELY disappointing coming from yourself. Placing well at a few tournaments spamming Wraiths and calling Nick Nanavati's list your own doesn't earn you the right to talk down other players.
You might try getting to know your own teammates before dissing them on the internet.
hippesthippo wrote: Perhaps, but he does it more than once throughout the report. He does this with Eric Hoerger as well.
I simply find the way he dismisses other players while raising himself up to be extremely distasteful. Doubly so when they happen to be local acquaintances of mine. I don't believe that to be unfair.
I've met Jy2, and believe him to be a very pleasant and intelligent person. I just didn't particularly care for all of the self-aggrandizement sprinkled throughout the report.
You are entitled to your opinion. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. We are all nice people, but we also have our viewpoints. If you think I am looking down on anyone here in my reports and trying to lift myself up, I can tell you that I am not. But frankly, I really don't care what you think of my viewpoints. I tell the readers what I think but I am also respectful of others and in particular, my opponents.
Regarding Brandon, I know he is a good player even though I don't really know of his accomplishments. He is our "youngblood" because he is literally the youngest player on our team. But in terms of experience, he is anything but. Hell, he's been playing a lot longer than I have. It's just that I have a dislike of all things eldary. They are one of the armies that I have had the most problem with back in 5th when they would screw with all my psychic armies with their Runes of Warding. Then in 6th, they've actually gotten better! In a sense, this is actually the best compliment I can give to an army - when such an army is so good that I always have problems whenever I go up against them (and ironically, I am also running mechdar myself at the moment). In any case, this is nothing against Brandon or any of the other great players who run Eldar (or Tau). Rather, I just like to take jabs at them every once in a while, whether they are being run by an opponent, my friend or even myself.
So if you think I've slighted my teammate, then that's too bad (and I could care less!). I won't apologize for what I truly feel. But know that my feelings are because of the army and not because of the person.
As for Eric, he told me that he plays against Tony and Andrew (I believe it is Andrew) on a constant basis and that they would always give him a hard time. That is a parallel to me, Reecius and Frankie. Frankie is a very good player also. It's just that he has problems when he plays against me (he hasn't been able to beat me one-on-one yet). He's had much more success against Reece, but I believe Reecius has also gotten the better of Frankie in tournament play (not talking about those army-testing battles on their videoreps).
BTW, my list and Nick's are not the same. He ran Necrons as primary and with 3 annihilation barges. I'm running grey knights as primary with psyflemans.
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Talore wrote: So even if you aren't just jumping at shadows (which is doubtful) you think it is distasteful to 'self-aggrandize' but not distasteful to waltz into his thread, throw a fit, and straight-up insult him? Mature.
Tact is definitely not his (hippesthippo's) strong point. But that really doesn't bother me all that much. He's just a straight-up person who call it as he sees it, though sometimes when one is too direct, the person ends up looking like an ass. I mean, what the HELL has he contributed to my thread anyways, other than to insult me.
That is true, many top players opt for the flavor-of-the-month armies and this would certainly affect the results. There is no doubt that necrons are still strong, I never suggested they were not. Merely that they were no longer on top, having been surpassed by Tau and Eldar.
In any case, congratulations with your own success in this tournament with a less-played force.
Yeah, necrons are no longer the top dog. But the way I see it, the crown is shared by a triumvirate. On any given day, necrons, tau or eldar can easily snatch the championship if given equal representation in a tournament. It's just that necrons nowadays have a smaller piece of the pie and thusly, the chances of seeing them win tournaments are also diminished. If you have 3x the number of tau and eldar players than you have necron players, then tau/eldar are 3x more likely to take the title.
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Red Corsair wrote: Which is why they remain on top. The game is too random to not play the best codex and expect to stay on top fort very long.
Also these results are meaningless because the same players are all playing the same few armies. You would need a massive sample size for any of the data to be worth anything. A few top tens means nothing except that the same few people are all chasing the newest codexes.
Yeah, these results are anecdotal at best. It would require a much larger dataset to empirically draw anything more conclusive. However, what it does give is a glimmer of the trend of some of the tournament players. Last year, many of those players were running necrons. This year, many of those players have migrated to the newer armies. But for those who stuck with necrons, they have still managed to have some success against the newer armies. It doesn't really prove anything conclusively, but what it does is re-affirm a gut feeling and hypothesis of mine (at least to me) - that necrons still belong up there with the best armies.
I'm awfully sorry I barged in on your report, Talore. I'm sure Jim is glad to know you have his back when I (gasp!) offer my opinion.
As for your opinion, Jim, I respectfully disagree. The fact that you are well aware of what the players in question are capable of makes your offering seem all the more questionable. While I'm quite ok with a little arrogance, it certainly isn't necessary and, in my opinion, detracts from your otherwise excellent reports.
Also, trading 2 Barges for 2 Psyflemen is a negligible enough difference that I would hardly call the list your creation. Give credit where credit is due. That's Nick's Adepticon winning list, not yours.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's worth noting that I made no more insult than Jim did to the players in his report. Calling myself an "ass," because I called you out for it is unnecessary and exactly the kind of thing that makes YOU start to look donkey-esque. If you're going to slight other players, you should expect to take it in return. Brandon, Eric, and Frankie are all excellent players in their own right.
Those are some hot opinions there. Still missing where a joke equates insulting your buddy, but it doesn't look like you're here to reason with anyone. Keep on fighting the good fight against anyone who would dare to say something you could twist as an insult!
hippesthippo wrote: I'm awfully sorry I barged in on your report, Talore. I'm sure Jim is glad to know you have his back when I (gasp!) offer my opinion.
As for your opinion, Jim, I respectfully disagree. The fact that you are well aware of what the players in question are capable of makes your offering seem all the more questionable. While I'm quite ok with a little arrogance, it certainly isn't necessary and, in my opinion, detracts from your otherwise excellent reports.
Also, trading 2 Barges for 2 Psyflemen is a negligible enough difference that I would hardly call the list your creation. Give credit where credit is due. That's Nick's Adepticon winning list, not yours.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's worth noting that I made no more insult than Jim did to the players in his report. Calling myself an "ass," because I called you out for it is unnecessary and exactly the kind of thing that makes YOU start to look donkey-esque. If you're going to slight other players, you should expect to take it in return. Brandon, Eric, and Frankie are all excellent players in their own right.
That's the risk you take when you are too direct. Not everyone appreciates it. Some may even go as far as feel insulted. Gasp! Look at it this way. If you were to walk into my house and all of a sudden, start criticizing it - maybe saying that the color on my walls are just a copy of the colors on another guy's walls or that my picture of the President in my house is offensive because you know the President personally and that picture of him is ugly - how do you think I may react? Do you think I will sing praises to your candour? Or do you think I will go, "who the hell are you to come into my house and then take swipes at it?"
You're damn right I'm offended.
As for my opponents, I have nothing but respect for them. Judge them from my actual battle reports, not from how you think I feel about them.
As for Nick' army, yes, he is a great player. Yes, my army is similar to his. But do you honestly think that his list is totally original? That no one else could come up with a similar list based on their own assessments of an army 's(armies') strengths and weaknesses? I've had successes with both my wraithwing crons and my dual-flyrant tyranids in competitive play, but even I'm not naive enough to think that no one else can come up with such lists by themselves. You won't see me going around claiming that other people's lists are a copy of my own lists (though I may describe them as similar to my lists so that the readers know what they are running).
So much anger in this thread. For my part I found the reports to be well written with acknowledgements of the different players strengths abounding. Not that it matters what I think because I don't know any of you.
Anyways, thanks for the batrep Jy2 and congrats to team fluffy bunnies on the win. Shame on the mistakes but it is easy to get worn down from these tournaments. Now you just need to join the dark side with your mechdar army.
ansacs wrote: So much anger in this thread. For my part I found the reports to be well written with acknowledgements of the different players strengths abounding. Not that it matters what I think because I don't know any of you.
Anyways, thanks for the batrep Jy2 and congrats to team fluffy bunnies on the win. Shame on the mistakes but it is easy to get worn down from these tournaments. Now you just need to join the dark side with your mechdar army.
Thanks! I didn't really bring my A-game against my last opponent, mainly due to fatigue, though I think I played well enough to be able to win it. But that is no excuse. Eric played really well and he totally deserved the win.
I doubt I will run my eldar in competitive play, but I won't lie. I do have the urge to test them out in competitive play. Then again, I always have the urge to test out my armies in tournament play. So far, I've brought a different army to all of my 6E tournaments - necrons, space wolves, chaos space marines, tyranids and the grey knights. Who knows which army I may bring next.
It's worth noting that I made no more insult than Jim did to the players in his report. Calling myself an "ass," because I called you out for it is unnecessary and exactly the kind of thing that makes YOU start to look donkey-esque. If you're going to slight other players, you should expect to take it in return. Brandon, Eric, and Frankie are all excellent players in their own right.
Then I'm an ass for calling you an ass. There....now we're even.
Honestly, I just enjoyed reading your battle reports a lot more before they all came off with the air that everyone you play is inferior to you and every list you use was your sole creation.
Yes, you give your opponents respect, however it always come immediately after slighting them making it feel empty and disengenuine. "He's kind of a third wheel. Having said that he's still a great player."
You're entitled to your opinion on your reports. So am I. This is Dakka's house, not yours. Just because this is your thread doesn't mean you are always right.
And you sir, need to tone down on this, its his column, his opinion.
If you dont like it start your own, critics are easy, prove yourself better or be silent!
The only thing you accomplished now is bogging this great battle report with irrelevant comments and arguing.
hippesthippo wrote: Honestly, I just enjoyed reading your battle reports a lot more before they all came off with the air that everyone you play is inferior to you and every list you use was your sole creation.
Yes, you give your opponents respect, however it always come immediately after slighting them making it feel empty and disengenuine. "He's kind of a third wheel. Having said that he's still a great player."
You're entitled to your opinion on your reports. So am I. This is Dakka's house, not yours. Just because this is your thread doesn't mean you are always right.
You're coming off as an ass, or worse jealous. With myself included that's 4 different people who've said the same, maybe take your concerns up with jy2 in Pms so it isn't such blatant thread jacking.
Or better yet, you and JY2 should meet up and settle this like men. On the board of battle ! You can even do up a battle report and make him out to be the evil bad guy who steals lists and talks down about your friends on the interet !!
I also get that feeling of "JY2 thinks he's a strategy genius" in his reports, that being said he wins most of his games against top players and thus forth should be himself considered a top player. Basically he has every right to feel Great about himself. Hippest reaction is proof of success as with any thing in life "heavy is the head that wears the crown"
Guys, thanks for chiming in, but I request that we move on regarding the "disagreement". Hippest has said his piece. I've replied in kind. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Or better yet, you and JY2 should meet up and settle this like men. On the board of battle ! You can even do up a battle report and make him out to be the evil bad guy who steals lists and talks down about your friends on the interet !!
The probability of this is low....but not impossible. I do plan to go to one of the larger east coast tournies next year. However, whether we play each other or not is entirely dependent on fate.
But I'm always happy to play against another skilled player.
Great reports been looking forward to every new one. I been following this since day 1 lol, finally got out of my lazy chair and tell you how thankful I am that you do these reports
Don't want to throw more fuel on the fire... @ jy2 your list is very similar to Nick's. I'm curious to know if you were aware of it and Nick's performance in Chicago prior to designing your own. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. : )
Marthike wrote: Great reports been looking forward to every new one. I been following this since day 1 lol, finally got out of my lazy chair and tell you how thankful I am that you do these reports
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed them.
Dozer Blades wrote: Don't want to throw more fuel on the fire... @ jy2 your list is very similar to Nick's. I'm curious to know if you were aware of it and Nick's performance in Chicago prior to designing your own. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. : )
Yes, I was aware of Nick's Adepticon-winning list.
It's not hard for good players to come up with the same or very similar lists. We all look for the strengths and weaknesses of our armies. Thus, it is easy for 2 different players to come up with the same or very similar lists based on their knowledge of the game and the units in the game.
Here is how I arrived at my list. Originally, I was thinking of bringing either pure necrons or Draigowing. I decided to go with Draigowing because 1) I have not played them in competitive play before and 2) it is much easier to transport the army. As a Draigowing player, I understand full well one of the biggest weaknesses of the army.....and that is the lack of mobility, especially with my scoring units. Thus, there was really only 2 options for me - either to ally in 1) necrons or 2) eldar for some mobile scoring. I decided to go with necrons because 1) I already own the models and 2) my teammate, Brandon, was already bringing eldar allies (but don't worry, in the future you will see my Draigowing w/Laughtarch, eldar jetbikes and wraithknight combo).
With necrons the only units you really need to consider are the warriors in flyers, the annihilation barges for some anti-flyer/transport shooting and an Overlord/Destroyer Lord for the mandatory HQ. There is no real need to stray from those units. However, as I was aware of Nick's list, I didn't really want to bring a carbon-copy of his highly optimized list. Thus, my spin on the list was to take the knights as my Primary army and necrons as secondary. This also gives me the added advantage of better psychic support (both in terms of powers and defense).
So whether I was aware of Nick's list or not, I would have still arrived naturally at my current list due to my own evaluations of the 2 armies and how they can potentially interact with each other.
Lots of top players bring very similar lists to GTs. I don't think it's any different here nor should be criticized. You rarely see what I'd consider to be a highly unique list that is very competitive. So I say well done. Booh hiss to the naysayers as well. : )
jy2 wrote: in the future you will see my Draigowing w/Laughtarch, eldar jetbikes and wraithknight combo).
I'll be looking forward to this. I've always loved bike armies + terminator armies (though Deathwing/Ravenwing never really did it for me, go figure) so seeing some ways to mix Paladins and those sweet jetbikes should be great inspiration.
Not really sure where all the vitriol coming at you is from... Your comments about your team and your list were hardly inappropriate. At worst, you teased a little and showed some pride in an (arguably) generic Draigowing tourney list. Nothing worth getting upset over IMHO. Besides, your perspective and short quips add a really neat "sports-commentator" flair to your batreps - something that's missing from a lot of threads in this subforum.
/2cents
EDIT: And really, Draigowing is about 1000 points for the core units alone. There aren't that many competitive variations of the other 1000 points that need to offset a slow, powerful deathstar unit. Pretty much all competitive Draigowing lists are going to look almost the same with a few things switched out here and there depending on whether allies are taken or not.
I've never said that Jim isn't an excellent player. In fact, I've acknowledged that he is on multiple occasions. I've also made it very clear that his battle reports are, by and large, extremely well written. Neither of those are points of contention of mine. I feel no need to restate my opinion, it's already on the record.
I also don't care if 4 or 5 or 100 people disagree with me on this thread. This is Jim's thread, I fully expected vocal support from his followers. I could care less for popular opinion. Having said that, I know I'm not alone in my opinion, for whatever that's worth. Moving on...
I'd love to get a game in with you, Jim. Not too prove anything, I think we're both better than that and personal player skill has nothing to do with our disagreement, but because I relish the competition. I'll be attending the Michigan GT, the 11th Company GT, Adepticon, and more than likely the Las Vegas Open as well. If you'd like, I'd be happy to make time for an extra game at any of those events. Or, in the case that you have any business to attend to in Michigan, I'd gladly welcome you into my home or any of the half-dozen LGS in the Metro Detroit area.
I do apologize for failing to congratulate you on your victory. It is certainly an achievement worthy of praise. <sarcasm>Just don't let it get to your head.</sarcasm>
hippesthippo wrote: I've never said that Jim isn't an excellent player. In fact, I've acknowledged that he is on multiple occasions. I've also made it very clear that his battle reports are, by and large, extremely well written. Neither of those are points of contention of mine. I feel no need to restate my opinion, it's already on the record.
I also don't care if 4 or 5 or 100 people disagree with me on this thread. This is Jim's thread, I fully expected vocal support from his followers. I could care less for popular opinion. Having said that, I know I'm not alone in my opinion, for whatever that's worth. Moving on...
I'd love to get a game in with you, Jim. Not too prove anything, I think we're both better than that and personal player skill has nothing to do with our disagreement, but because I relish the competition. I'll be attending the Michigan GT, the 11th Company GT, Adepticon, and more than likely the Las Vegas Open as well. If you'd like, I'd be happy to make time for an extra game at any of those events. Or, in the case that you have any business to attend to in Michigan, I'd gladly welcome you into my home or any of the half-dozen LGS in the Metro Detroit area.
I do apologize for failing to congratulate you on your victory. It is certainly an achievement worthy of praise. <sarcasm>Just don't let it get to your head.</sarcasm>
Thanks.
I do plan to go to the LVO and Golden Throne in the West Coast. As for east coast tournies, I plan to go to 1 or 2 of the following next year: Adepticon, Nova and/or to defend our title at the ATC. Perhaps we can try to get a game at one of those events, though my free time at the LVO may depend on whether or not my wife will be coming with me. But yeah, anytime I get an opportunity to play against another skilled player, I relish the opportunity.
My only regret is that I didn't get to play against Darkwynn and Goatboy in this tourney. Then again, I had wanted to play against Paul Murphy as well and they are all on the same team so I guess I'll have to wait for next time.
jy2 wrote: in the future you will see my Draigowing w/Laughtarch, eldar jetbikes and wraithknight combo).
I'll be looking forward to this. I've always loved bike armies + terminator armies (though Deathwing/Ravenwing never really did it for me, go figure) so seeing some ways to mix Paladins and those sweet jetbikes should be great inspiration.
Not really sure where all the vitriol coming at you is from... Your comments about your team and your list were hardly inappropriate. At worst, you teased a little and showed some pride in an (arguably) generic Draigowing tourney list. Nothing worth getting upset over IMHO. Besides, your perspective and short quips add a really neat "sports-commentator" flair to your batreps - something that's missing from a lot of threads in this subforum.
/2cents
EDIT: And really, Draigowing is about 1000 points for the core units alone. There aren't that many competitive variations of the other 1000 points that need to offset a slow, powerful deathstar unit. Pretty much all competitive Draigowing lists are going to look almost the same with a few things switched out here and there depending on whether allies are taken or not.
Thanks for the comments. Yeah, I think my commentary adds some flair to my battle reports. I try to give it a somewhat more personal perspective because I think that is what makes it more interesting to a lot of people. Though I guess once in while, I may strike a raw nerve with a reader or 2 (as it appears to be the case here). Guess that can't be avoided if I am to keep with my current writing style. But no matter what, I try to keep my reports in a positive perspective about the hobby. I also like to focus on the person and not just the game. After all, the game is not just about the models but rather, the people behind the models. In short, I try to make my reports personal - about the people I play against and also about my thoughts on the game - but I guess sometimes, there is a chance that some people may take offense to that. But thank goodness it is probably only a small minority. It also won't deter me from telling a story the way I want to tell it, though I will listen to all comments and criticisms.
jy2 goes to my local gw (apparently). I've had the pleasure of getting my ass whupped by his daemons list. had no idea who he was when I played against him! It's a small world
Largeblastmarker wrote: jy2 goes to my local gw (apparently). I've had the pleasure of getting my ass whupped by his daemons list. had no idea who he was when I played against him! It's a small world
I'm the kid with the Ultramarines who was using a rhino as a proxy razorback with a lascannon, and my guy with a meltagun and stormsheild became a MM er in my devastators, and you were running alot of slaneshi and tzeench daemons. I did kill your soulgrinders though! Oh yeah, the last thing you killed was my landraider and my whirlwind.
Oh yeah, and my name is Barry. Ridiculously tall kid.
your beating me made me buy some grey knights. Maybe I will win next time
EDIT: oh yeah and you offered to play at a deficit cuz you knew you would beat me, but i refused to take it. I wish i had And the last time I saw you you commented on the fact that I only deserved to brag if i could beat big green... and that if I could beat you then I was a legend. And you were basecoating some eldar. I have a good memory.
Nice to meet you, Barry. Perhaps the next time we meet, you can exact your revenge on me, especially with the new & improved Space Marines.
BTW, I usually play at Game Kastle on Thursday afternoon/evenings. If you want to improve your gameplay, you should go over there. There's some pretty good players there to practice against. There you will find players like Grant Theft Auto and his seer council, Adam's Triptide Tau, ImmotekhtheStormlord (who just won Celesticon) and Janthkin just to name a few. Even Big Green is starting to show up there on Thurs as well.
Nice to meet you, Barry. Perhaps the next time we meet, you can exact your revenge on me, especially with the new & improved Space Marines.
BTW, I usually play at Game Kastle on Thursday afternoon/evenings. If you want to improve your gameplay, you should go over there. There's some pretty good players there to practice against. There you will find players like Grant Theft Auto and his seer council, Adam's Triptide Tau, ImmotekhtheStormlord (who just won Celesticon) and Janthkin just to name a few. Even Big Green is starting to show up there on Thurs as well.
Cool! thanks for the advice! But I go to westvalley college on thursdays. Damn. No way I could squeze a game with my new and improved IH/DA landraider spam list (clocks in at 3000pts)
Moved to SF two years ago and finally on top of my busy life to get gaming. Looks like bunch of OldSkool Dakka seniors live in the bay area.
Spaking of Dakka Legends, somewhat shocked to see Centurion99 (if he is the same guy) run such a Spammy Daemon list when he's forte used to be smacking people with the oddest and fluffiest lists
migsula wrote: Found this late and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Moved to SF two years ago and finally on top of my busy life to get gaming. Looks like bunch of OldSkool Dakka seniors live in the bay area.
Spaking of Dakka Legends, somewhat shocked to see Centurion99 (if he is the same guy) run such a Spammy Daemon list when he's forte used to be smacking people with the oddest and fluffiest lists
Yeah, there's a lot of dakkalites on the West Coast, though probably for financial reasons, we tend to play more at the West Coast tournaments.
I believe Centurion99 is probably the same guy as before - a long-time daemon player. In this case, I think he wants to play a certain style of daemons, which is why his list is somewhat spammy. I don't blame him. FMC-spam is a super strong daemon build and probably the build most likely to succeed in tournament play. Or maybe he just likes running MC's.
migsula wrote: Found this late and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Moved to SF two years ago and finally on top of my busy life to get gaming. Looks like bunch of OldSkool Dakka seniors live in the bay area.
Spaking of Dakka Legends, somewhat shocked to see Centurion99 (if he is the same guy) run such a Spammy Daemon list when he's forte used to be smacking people with the oddest and fluffiest lists
Hey, it's Migs! How've you been?
Yup, Bill/C99 has tipped over into the FMC-spamming dark side. Part of it is just the simplicity - it's an easy army to transport, plays fast, and doesn't have many really bad match-ups. These are all Good Things at long tournaments, particularly when you're part of a team.
I remember when he spanked people with an infantry IG army (Gaunt's Ghosts) that was not supposed to win a game. This must have been in 3rd edition. So happy to see you guys still going strong! (Or even stronger). Looking forward to hopefully getting some games against you guys at some point.
I moved to San Francisco two years ago, finally finished the army I had the beginnings for and I am hoping to attend the local tournaments in 2014. I pretty much missed all of 5th just studying, working and building/painting crazy miniatures.
migsula wrote: I remember when he spanked people with an infantry IG army (Gaunt's Ghosts) that was not supposed to win a game. This must have been in 3rd edition. So happy to see you guys still going strong! (Or even stronger). Looking forward to hopefully getting some games against you guys at some point.
I moved to San Francisco two years ago, finally finished the army I had the beginnings for and I am hoping to attend the local tournaments in 2014. I pretty much missed all of 5th just studying, working and building/painting crazy miniatures.
Yeah, sure. Both Kevin and I are in the South Bay and normally play at Game Kastle in Santa Clara. I have been known to travel for games once in a while, especially to Frontline Gaming in Martinez. Just PM either of us if you'd like to get a game in.
I don't believe Bill has been playing too much recently due to school and work, but he's in the East Coast (or somewhere near).
As for tournaments, my recommendation would be to plan for either the Las Vegas Open in February, the Bay Area Open in summertime or the Golden Throne probably in August if you're interested in some of the larger West Coast GT's that are within drive-able range.
Wow! Those are some awesome armies. Can't wait to see how you all did.
Crouching wraithknight, Hidden arm wraithknight....those guys are fully posable!
That's 150-pts for the team! I don't think in the history of the 
, I have no idea how your going to pull threw. Can't wait to see what kind of damage your necron lord can do. 
