Best_Pone over at Warseer wrote:An interesting tidbit I overheard being discussed recently is that Sisters of Battle are getting a digital codex release soon. Unfortunately, I'm still in the dark as to if there will be a physical codex release, or whether this is new material or just a repackaging of the current list.

Please remember that moderate sodium intake is part of a balanced diet

brassangel wrote:A digital release of the White Dwarf list, no doubt. Several writers I've met this year said the real codex is currently under way.

Yeay, we will finally have a chance to have the codex with only to be invalid in a years time with the pace of release we have now!

Although it is still a good thing to actually release the codex, the amount of time it will stay valid is a question that i would to get answers.

Second post.

We never even got off the ground before someone complained.

Happy Saturday night, guys!

A digital release of the WD codex would still be better than nothing.....at least for Ipad owners.

But snarkiness aside, still better than absolutely nothing, which is what the WD release gave us SoB players, unless we want an illegal download.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
A digital release of the WD codex would still be better than nothing.....at least for Ipad owners.

But snarkiness aside, still better than absolutely nothing, which is what the WD release gave us SoB players, unless we want an illegal download.

The Space Marine Codex was released for more platforms than just the iPad:

Black Library wrote:eBook availabe in Mobi and ePub Format. Compatible with Android, Kindle and iBooks devices.

The fancy interactive version is still iBooks only, but that is most likely because Apple makes it easy to make interactive iBooks. "The Rules", Eldar, Black Legion and others are all also available on Android and Kindle devices. So I don't think there is any indication that a Digital WD Codex release would be iBooks only.

I would be happy if GW decide to make a Codex or Armybook that is not as popular and release them as eBook only instead of not releasing it all due to prohibitive print costs.

Sorry for posting my opinions on the matter, will not happen again after this post.


But from wherever you hold this matter a point of complain can be found.

The actual release of the codex; a great move for sisters players which had to use illegal ways to use their armies which gw sold them as a playable force in their game. But later made the rules not available.

The release pace of the codex this year, we are having a codex per month and i am loving it but if this speed is kept up it means that this digital release of the sisters codex will be invalidated in a shorter then average amount of time for other digital releases. Which will be different from regular codex since it doesn't have any fluff in it . But if gw adds fluff pieces to this release it would invalidate all this point.

And again sorry for any inconvenience.

w00t! Scouring dakka everyday in the news section to hear this!

 pizzaguardian wrote:
Sorry for posting my opinions on the matter, will not happen again after this post.


But from wherever you hold this matter a point of complain can be found.

The actual release of the codex; a great move for sisters players which had to use illegal ways to use their armies which gw sold them as a playable force in their game. But later made the rules not available.

The release pace of the codex this year, we are having a codex per month and i am loving it but if this speed is kept up it means that this digital release of the sisters codex will be invalidated in a shorter then average amount of time for other digital releases. Which will be different from regular codex since it doesn't have any fluff in it . But if gw adds fluff pieces to this release it would invalidate all this point.

And again sorry for any inconvenience.

Dude, chilax. You're more than entitled to your opinion, but this could have been couched in a more constructive manner. I don't particularly fancy GW either, but I give them props when they give up their 3 years hiatus in providing SoB goodness.

Only what, two years late? Better late than never, I suppose.

Disbelieve.

GW painted itself into a corner on SoB models, they don't want to keep them in metal, don't want to do them in Finecast, and don't have new ones ready to go.

So why support something when they have few/no models to sell right now?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Disbelieve.

GW painted itself into a corner on SoB models, they don't want to keep them in metal, don't want to do them in Finecast, and don't have new ones ready to go.

So why support something when they have few/no models to sell right now?

If they have sculpts ready to go in plastic but are hesitant on using them in case the line doesn't sell, then this is a great idea. Put out e current rules in a very cheap way for them. See how it sells, gives them a good idea on the current player base for sisters.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Disbelieve.

GW painted itself into a corner on SoB models, they don't want to keep them in metal, don't want to do them in Finecast, and don't have new ones ready to go.

So why support something when they have few/no models to sell right now?

I say turn it over to Forgeworld. Let them make great models and do the sisters justice. If the alternative is standing around waiting for an answer to show up and ultimately doing nothing, i think forgeworld would be a better choice.

I remember the rumor was thar SoB were to be folded into a Big "Codex: Inquisitors" that would include both them as well as GK and Deathwatch...

This continues to point to the rumor from away back when that said that GW was going to try to get all the armies updated with 6th ed.

It also fits with an observation I've had, in that most of the Codex releases we've seen, are ones that have needed rules updates more then new models.

Now we're starting to see some of the armies that have actually needed new models, ( Nids finally getting models for Harpies and mysceptic spore, Orks getting an update) and with Black Templar being rolled into the Space Marines, it is pointing to a good bet we'll see a Sisters of Battle Released, probably sometime next year.

There are many players, (Myself included) that would love to build Sisters, but are waiting for plastic models so they aren't as expensive.

whitetornado wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Disbelieve.

GW painted itself into a corner on SoB models, they don't want to keep them in metal, don't want to do them in Finecast, and don't have new ones ready to go.

So why support something when they have few/no models to sell right now?

I say turn it over to Forgeworld. Let them make great models and do the sisters justice. If the alternative is standing around waiting for an answer to show up and ultimately doing nothing, i think forgeworld would be a better choice.

This would imply Forge World working on something other than the Horus Heresy cash cow...

Eldercaveman wrote:
If they have sculpts ready to go in plastic but are hesitant on using them in case the line doesn't sell, then this is a great idea. Put out e current rules in a very cheap way for them. See how it sells, gives them a good idea on the current player base for sisters.

No, it gives a completely inaccurate idea of the current player base for Sisters. It tells them how poorly Sisters will sell if GW doesn't give them some token plastic support. And it's not like any other army has to jump through hoops to prove itself this way; the Space Marines didn't need to prove that people wanted to buy plastic Centurions, let alone plastic Tactical Squads.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Disbelieve.

GW painted itself into a corner on SoB models, they don't want to keep them in metal, don't want to do them in Finecast, and don't have new ones ready to go.

So why support something when they have few/no models to sell right now?

If they have sculpts ready to go in plastic but are hesitant on using them in case the line doesn't sell, then this is a great idea. Put out e current rules in a very cheap way for them. See how it sells, gives them a good idea on the current player base for sisters.

From what little I've heard about the plastic kit production process, it's extremely costly up-front. Once you make the molds, you're golden for a while, and can churn out mountains of sprues pretty cheaply. If this is true, then it makes sense to allocate your plastic kit resources to things you know will sell. The idea that GW would create the sculpts and moulds for plastic Sisters, and then sit on them, unreleased, is ludicrous in this context.

Maybe they might release the codex via a low-cost electronic format, and hype it a bit in White Dwarf/the web, and see how much interest it drums up. If the response is very strong, maybe that might convince them that it would be worth the substantial investment in sculpting and producing moulds for what has become (to a large extent by GW's own actions) a niche army.

All that said, I'd love to see a proper Sisters relaunch. I got into them when they were first released back in 2nd Ed. days, and would love to see what they could do with the line (hopefully a nice Dark Eldar total revamp with awesome sculpts, rather than a Chaos Space Marines swing and a miss...)

-C6

This sounds like a GW move. Rather than spend big on new sisters models (which are probably the least played army in the game albeit a chicken vs egg discussion) they go with the cost effective option of a E-Dex which can later be made print if its selling well (like with the supplements). I think this is a good call as a half-assed remake of sisters (like witch hunters) would be more disappointment than anything else. Meanwhile they could use a new coat of paint so that would be great. My buddy is starting a sisters army so that will be nice.

A digital release of the current WD dex really desn't help, I play SoB and probably wouldn't buy as I have WD Issues. If it had more fluff but the same rules I'd consider buying it but it depends entirely on price and format (I don't have an Ipad or Kindle fire but do have a normal kindle).

There'd been a previous mention in a release schedule thread that nov 2014 was either going to be BA or SoB, if that ties into the 'they're wotking on SoB' line in this rumour we're still over a year...which always seems to be the case, so we're no further on.

Sorry if this comes across negative but us SoB players have had so many false starts in getting a new dex that until we get some more substantial rumours it's difficult to get excited.

D

I agree with Kid Kyoto and Whitetornado - they have well and truly painted themselves into a corner on Sisters. They aren't selling because they have lousy models, and they don't want to make good models because they aren't selling! The only way to break this cycle is to step away from it. Have Forge World do some models and see how they do - because if they continue with their strategy, eventually someone else is going to fill that void.

Or can see sisters going as the same way Squats went

Good to hear! If it's true, that is. But going from the sources in the OP, chances are looking good.

 Ouze wrote:
They aren't selling because they have lousy models, and they don't want to make good models because they aren't selling!

The Dark Eldar happened. There's a precednet for a low-selling model line being updated and doing well. And their poor sales being due to people not liking the models is extremely debatable. GW also had to keep them all in metal while other armies got plastics, took them out of the stores and presently does not distribute their codex. With all that, of course they aren't selling well. But if GW had been able to make plastics for them years ago, they would likely be selling far better/

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Disbelieve.

GW painted itself into a corner on SoB models, they don't want to keep them in metal, don't want to do them in Finecast, and don't have new ones ready to go.

http://the-responsible-one.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/enter-citadel-ask-audience-we-want-to.html

A couple of these ones got some further points. It was mentioned that originally there had been a technical problem with developing Sisters plastics, but that Games Workshop would now have the technology to be able to do them.

Habeeb it.

 Void_walker wrote:
Or can see sisters going as the same way Squats went

After years of waiting for the Squats to be re-launched I eventually took my dwarf-in-space future into my own hands and bought a load of the Mantic Forge Father guys, with a load more of these (some of which look quite promising) on the horizon it definitely looks like it was the right choice to make. Although, the difference here is that 'dwarves in space' is a pretty common fantasy trope, and it would be difficult for anyone else to create something that was similar to the Sisters without being sued into oblivion.

At times though I felt a bit like a kid at Xmas, stood outside Scrooge's house in the snow, waiting for whatever half-eaten turkey scraps to be thrown out of the window. Not saying this is necessarily the case with the Soritas, but there comes a time when you have to accept the gnawed bone of meat isn't going to come your way, and move on..

I think that regardless of what the models look like (I don't mind them, myself, other than the lack of variety) it's pretty obvious that not providing any easy way to play them at all in the current game and then claiming that they are an under-seller is pretty moronic. Hell, it's actually easier to play the Sisters in the older editions' rulesets than in 6th, even all the way back to 2nd edition!

It would be like bringing back all the sculpts of models past that no longer have legal wargear/weapons, and then claiming, "See? Look at all this stuff we brought back for you, and yet no one is buying any of it."

 AegisGrimm wrote:
it's pretty obvious that not providing any easy way to play them at all in the current game and then claiming that they are an under-seller is pretty moronic.

That's what you call a self-fulfilling prophecy, isn't it?

They really should just put the Codex (at the very least the "existing" one) out in a free PDF, rather then e-format. I know they like to make money off the rules, but free rules to play the models might actually get new people to pay for the models to go with the rules. How bad would it be to put two White Dwarf features online (and officially legal as a download), when it's not going to cannibalize sales of two out-of-print magazines from years ago?

Allowing players to spend 100% of the money they would spend on an army +materials on just the actual models would give a good idea of how well the market for the models is, if there is a sudden jump in model sales.

Well.. I really don't need a codex until the shipment of Raging Heroes miniatures arrives at my place... thus.. June 2016?

 AegisGrimm wrote:
They really should just put the Codex (at the very least the "existing" one) out in a free PDF, rather then e-format.

I don't know if the GW leadership is aware of it or not, but their customer services have been telling people to go download an internet PDF anyway. In light of that, them charging for a digital codex seems a tad redundant. Better to, like you said, make it free to get as many people as possible interested in and playing the SoB. And hey, they did release the Blood Angels WD codex for free, IIRC?

It'll be interesting to see how they handle this.

 Troike wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
They really should just put the Codex (at the very least the "existing" one) out in a free PDF, rather then e-format.

I don't know if the GW leadership is aware of it or not, but their customer services have been telling people to go download an internet PDF anyway. In light of that, them charging for a digital codex seems a tad redundant. Better to, like you said, make it free to get as many people as possible interested in and playing the SoB. And hey, they did release the Blood Angels WD codex for free, IIRC?

It'll be interesting to see how they handle this.

I am going to assume that they will handle it badly.....as always.

Wasn't the WD sisters a 5th ed based "codex".

RoninXiC wrote:
Well.. I really don't need a codex until the shipment of Raging Heroes miniatures arrives at my place... thus.. June 2016?

Alert! Alert! A shamefully negative thread has spilled over to this one!

Noir wrote:
Wasn't the WD sisters a 5th ed based "codex".

Yes, their current codex is a 5e one.

Best Pone has a good track record so far, so I'm pretty optimistic on this (as I believe it to be more likely than I normally would).

I see two real ways this could go:

1. GW puts everything out as is with a few design tweaks, and maybe reshuffling the unit descriptions into a more traditional order (HQs together, SCs together, ect).

2. GW updates the rules a bit (nothing major, namely adjusting points costs, adds in some relics and Warlord traits to tide us over, and maybe tweaks the Act of Faith rules a little so they aren't just proto-USRs from the rulebook but instead the actual USRs they represent or new, different rules that aren't stolen from the rulebook's rough draft).

I see either of these as equally possible as neither requires a massive amount of work (no new fluff, units, ect). I honestly hope for the latter however because it'd be throwing the army a little love at least and expanding the kind of things it can do (Relic options could potentially make the Canoness better, 10 or 11 point Sisters means that you could take more of them).

Either way we just need to wait and see what GW does here, but I think there is potential for GW to do something decent with this and I'm interested to see what they do this time.

Personally, I see 1. as the more likely outcome. The key thing here is the models, they can apparently make them in plastic now. Bearing this in mind, to me this supposed digital release seems like a move to "take them off of the backburner". Now that they apparently have solid plans to do an SoB update, a PDF of the current rules could be a way to get people interested in and maybe even playing them, so as to prime them for a big model/codex update.

2. seems unlikely to me. It's essentially a new codex without an actual, physical codex being released. Not to mention that a new codex would likely add new units, which would be awkward without concurrent new models, which we probably would have heard about by now. Nah, what I expect is updated rules to come alongside new models and a physical codex, lots of fanfare and hype so as to better blitzkreig our wallets.

Just speculation on my part, mind you.

Edit: additionally, 2. seems unlikely also because it's doing half a job. Why bother doing a minor update to give them trappings of a 6e codex, only to have to go back later to work on making an an "actual" codex update, with all of the work it entails? Just seems like an odd way to go about it.

 Troike wrote:
Personally, I see 1. as the more likely outcome. The key thing here is the models, they can apparently make them in plastic now. Bearing this in mind, to me this supposed digital release seems like a move to "take them off of the backburner". Now that they apparently have solid plans to do an SoB update, a PDF of the current rules could be a way to get people interested in and maybe even playing them, so as to prime them for a big model/codex update.

2. seems unlikely to me. It's essentially a new codex without an actual, physical codex being released. Not to mention that a new codex would likely add new units, which would be awkward without concurrent new models, which we probably would have heard about by now. Nah, what I expect is updated rules to come alongside new models and a physical codex, lots of fanfare and hype so as to better blitzkreig our wallets.

Just speculation on my part, mind you.

That's a fair assessment, I just think there is room for a qausi-update in there. They don't have to do it honestly, and I'm by no means demanding it, but I feel they have the room to do it, and I rather hope they do.

Any one thinking plastic Sisters are going to be magically Cheaper are kidding themselves. They probably won't be cheaper then metals, just easier to work with.

Its strange that there aren't Sisters, now. since it could be done with basically 1.5 sprues. Seen the GK power armor sprue? Do exactly that. One Sprue. One Sprue could give you Celestians,, Battle Sisters, Seraphim, and Dominion Squads. Add in a character sprue for HQ, and Bam. Done.

Is it every option from the old Witch hunters? No. But gods it would shut people up

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
Any one thinking plastic Sisters are going to be magically Cheaper are kidding themselves. They probably won't be cheaper then metals, just easier to work with.

Part count would go up though so the price staying the same would at least be exchanged with a higher bit count and that means more customization.

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
Its strange that there aren't Sisters, now. since it could be done with basically 1.5 sprues. Seen the GK power armor sprue? Do exactly that. One Sprue. One Sprue could give you Celestians,, Battle Sisters, Seraphim, and Dominion Squads. Add in a character sprue for HQ, and Bam. Done.

Is it every option from the old Witch hunters? No. But gods it would shut people up

There have been some casting related issues GW had to work out that kept them from proceeding further. Undercuts, and sleeves namely had to be worked around.

And nothing will get people to shut up. Have you not learned that from the internet yet?

That was like 4 years ago.

I think they moved on since then.

yukihyou wrote:


That was like 4 years ago.

I think they moved on since then.

Phil Kelly said it was the reason Sisters hadn't gotten plastic models being related to a number of issues that had to be worked out prior to being able to proceed with them at Enter the Citadel, which was only a couple months ago. And the rumors of Sisters being held back while they worked out the issues (which DE helped solve) where as recent as 2011, when Sisters got their WD codex, that was 2 years ago.

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
Any one thinking plastic Sisters are going to be magically Cheaper are kidding themselves. They probably won't be cheaper then metals, just easier to work with.

Its strange that there aren't Sisters, now. since it could be done with basically 1.5 sprues. Seen the GK power armor sprue? Do exactly that. One Sprue. One Sprue could give you Celestians,, Battle Sisters, Seraphim, and Dominion Squads. Add in a character sprue for HQ, and Bam. Done.

Is it every option from the old Witch hunters? No. But gods it would shut people up

I'd be surprised not to see plastic sisters be cheaper. 10 standard bolter sisters currently cost $57.50. A 10 Man tactical squad is $40.

why isnt third party producing sisters? people want them and since GW never cares to produce what customers want. They have got so much time, but they have absolutely no sense of reality. I would say its a morally open ground. oh If I knew how to, I would start making third party sisters tonight

Or just maybe GW isn't crazy and the market isn't that interested in Sisters right now.

That doesn't mean that it's not GW fault that demand is down, and that they couldn't create interest in the future.

SlyasR wrote:
why isnt third party producing sisters? people want them and since GW never cares to produce what customers want. They have got so much time, but they have absolutely no sense of reality. I would say its a morally open ground. oh If I knew how to, I would start making third party sisters tonight

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/loudnraging/raging-heroes-the-toughest-girls-of-the-galaxy

There ARE third party producers of sister like miniatures... you just need to wait a year or so until they are released. But I'm quite sure that they'll look stunningly awesome!

ClockworkZion wrote:

yukihyou wrote:


That was like 4 years ago.

I think they moved on since then.

Phil Kelly said it was the reason Sisters hadn't gotten plastic models being related to a number of issues that had to be worked out prior to being able to proceed with them at Enter the Citadel, which was only a couple months ago. And the rumors of Sisters being held back while they worked out the issues (which DE helped solve) where as recent as 2011, when Sisters got their WD codex, that was 2 years ago.

But that IS the same exact excuse he has been using for 4 years. Way before the get you by list.

 d-usa wrote:
Or just maybe GW isn't crazy and the market isn't that interested in Sisters right now.

That doesn't mean that it's not GW fault that demand is down, and that they couldn't create interest in the future.

no actually there is a market, GW just dont care or are otherwise unwilling. The situation is very much like GW trying to sell people a blue car. the people say no, we want a red car. they try again, dont you want a blue? no we would like a red. ok we meet you half ways and sell you a blue... no one is buying. hmm I guess cars dont sell that good says GW.

I mean, o my FSM! I know this comes of like GW rant but this company is being run like if they were in an ideal communist dream. they dont even care to satisfy the customer with its cravings because they seem to believe that money just roll in from the kind government party. (no dissresp. for ideal communism though). Almost anything they do is a miss because they dont have any touch with reality. I do think they have people collecting marketing data, but they obviously dont look at it.

yukihyou wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

yukihyou wrote:


That was like 4 years ago.

I think they moved on since then.

Phil Kelly said it was the reason Sisters hadn't gotten plastic models being related to a number of issues that had to be worked out prior to being able to proceed with them at Enter the Citadel, which was only a couple months ago. And the rumors of Sisters being held back while they worked out the issues (which DE helped solve) where as recent as 2011, when Sisters got their WD codex, that was 2 years ago.

But that IS the same exact excuse he has been using for 4 years. Way before the get you by list.

Doesn't make it less true.

Back during 5th most armies had a 18 month development cycle from start to finish (I assume it's about like that now, if not a little shorter due to the smaller number of new units being added in at a time now). Dark Eldar had one measured in years as Jes Goodwin worked on and off on all the new models and then making them castable in plastic.. Sisters appear to be following that trend fairly closely and for good reason, they, like the old Dark Eldar have a mostly metal army that has enough detail and character in it's designs that it can't be just shat out in a year and a half, and if GW was having issues casting the approved designs then they would likely look at putting them on the shelf for a bit while the problem was worked on without just replacing the designs and starting the cycle all over again.

So it doesn't mean that repeatedly stating the same thing, makes what they claim to not be true, it makes it just a reinforcement that they're coming, just not this year.

ClockworkZion wrote:

yukihyou wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

yukihyou wrote:


That was like 4 years ago.

I think they moved on since then.

Phil Kelly said it was the reason Sisters hadn't gotten plastic models being related to a number of issues that had to be worked out prior to being able to proceed with them at Enter the Citadel, which was only a couple months ago. And the rumors of Sisters being held back while they worked out the issues (which DE helped solve) where as recent as 2011, when Sisters got their WD codex, that was 2 years ago.

But that IS the same exact excuse he has been using for 4 years. Way before the get you by list.

Doesn't make it less true.

Back during 5th most armies had a 18 month development cycle from start to finish (I assume it's about like that now, if not a little shorter due to the smaller number of new units being added in at a time now). Dark Eldar had one measured in years as Jes Goodwin worked on and off on all the new models and then making them castable in plastic.. Sisters appear to be following that trend fairly closely and for good reason, they, like the old Dark Eldar have a mostly metal army that has enough detail and character in it's designs that it can't be just shat out in a year and a half, and if GW was having issues casting the approved designs then they would likely look at putting them on the shelf for a bit while the problem was worked on without just replacing the designs and starting the cycle all over again.

So it doesn't mean that repeatedly stating the same thing, makes what they claim to not be true, it makes it just a reinforcement that they're coming, just not this year.

I honestly wish I had known entered the Citadel was like this, because I would have prefer this to GD. And would have prefer an actual discussion to oh here is some releases we have had already .

Perhaps It does not make it less true, But with the fantastic capes / cloth on the DV CSM I think they have solved this. I think JJ has very little input these days, from what I was told he is a figurehead only.

SlyasR wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Or just maybe GW isn't crazy and the market isn't that interested in Sisters right now.

That doesn't mean that it's not GW fault that demand is down, and that they couldn't create interest in the future.

no actually there is a market, GW just dont care or are otherwise unwilling.

Why are all third-party manufacturers (who have no problem making not-SM, not-IG, not-Orks) refusing to meet that demand?

There is one company willing to make some not-Sisters, and the are not even willing to take the risk of producing them without up-front financing from the people who want to buy them.

So I really wonder if GW and every third-party company is either too stupid to meet that great demand, or if the people on the internet are wrong about just how much of a demand there is for the Sororitas. But if nobody is willing to just sculpt up a count-as third party Sororitas army to take advantage of the community that is just itching to spend all their money on sisters, without making the community front the money first, then I doubt that GW is the idiot here.

But again, if the demand isn't there (and I don't think it is considering the lack of action from third-party companies) then it is at least party to blame on GW for letting that particular brand go stale.

Maybe, just maybe, GW isn't a bunch of idiots though. Maybe, just maybe, they are thinking about releasing a Digital DW Codex (at minimal upfront expense and risk) to see if the community can get excited about the sisters, to track downloads and see if sales of current models increase. See if demand increases, and then meet it.

But I'm just guessing, just like most everybody else in this thread.

 d-usa wrote:
Maybe, just maybe, they are thinking about releasing a Digital DW Codex (at minimal upfront expense and risk) to see if the community can get excited about the sisters, to track downloads and see if sales of current models increase. See if demand increases, and then meet it.

Don't think that's the case. Prior to this rumour, this was posted:

-Sisters of Battle are definitely in the works, but still some way off, according to Jerv

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?34864-Gamesday-Germany-2013-Master-Roundup/page2

Why would he say that if they were still unsure about doing them? There's also that bit in the OP where BrassAngel says that several writers have said that a new codex is underway. I doubt that we'd have devs being so overt about it if they were undecided. And again, Dark Eldar happened. There's a precedent here.

As for guaging excitement, they already have ways of doing that. GW Customer Service gets a lot of emails about them. Fans ask about them lot. Models sell despite their high price and being all metal. They're likely aware that there's enthusiasm there.

 Troike wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Maybe, just maybe, they are thinking about releasing a Digital DW Codex (at minimal upfront expense and risk) to see if the community can get excited about the sisters, to track downloads and see if sales of current models increase. See if demand increases, and then meet it.

Don't think that's the case. Prior to this rumour, this was posted:

-Sisters of Battle are definitely in the works, but still some way off, according to Jerv

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?34864-Gamesday-Germany-2013-Master-Roundup/page2

Why would he say that if they were still unsure about doing them? There's also that bit in the OP where BrassAngel says that several writers have said that a new codex is underway. I doubt that we'd have devs being so overt about it if they were undecided. And again, Dark Eldar happened. There's a precedent here.

As for guaging excitement, they already have ways of doing that. GW Customer Service gets a lot of emails about them. Fans ask about them lot.Models sell despite their high price and being all metal. They're likely aware that there's enthusiasm there.

So much enthusiasm that for a time GW refused to answer questions about Sisters because they were tired of getting them all the time.

here was then a question about what people wanted to see

Sisters of Battle plastics and codex
Genestealer Cults
Lost and the Damned
Xenos Terrain
A Tyranid model to put the Wraithknight and Riptide to shame
More factionalisation and customisation

A couple of these ones got some further points. It was mentioned that originally there had been a technical problem with developing Sisters plastics, but that Games Workshop would now have the technology to be able to do them.


I included the whole quote for relevance.

Games Workshop and customer service thats a laugh. They have gone from the best CS to simply the WORST

Locrian wrote:

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
Any one thinking plastic Sisters are going to be magically Cheaper are kidding themselves. They probably won't be cheaper then metals, just easier to work with.

Its strange that there aren't Sisters, now. since it could be done with basically 1.5 sprues. Seen the GK power armor sprue? Do exactly that. One Sprue. One Sprue could give you Celestians,, Battle Sisters, Seraphim, and Dominion Squads. Add in a character sprue for HQ, and Bam. Done.

Is it every option from the old Witch hunters? No. But gods it would shut people up

I'd be surprised not to see plastic sisters be cheaper. 10 standard bolter sisters currently cost $57.50. A 10 Man tactical squad is $40.

A 10 man box that'd for their star attraction. There are far more 5 man boxes at that price point or higher. It wouldn't be out of character to charge 50 for ten. Technically cheaper? Perhaps. But its not the cheaper that people think of when they think of plastic.

yukihyou wrote:
here was then a question about what people wanted to see

Sisters of Battle plastics and codex
Genestealer Cults
Lost and the Damned
Xenos Terrain
A Tyranid model to put the Wraithknight and Riptide to shame
More factionalisation and customisation

A couple of these ones got some further points. It was mentioned that originally there had been a technical problem with developing Sisters plastics, but that Games Workshop would now have the technology to be able to do them.


I included the whole quote for relevance.

Games Workshop and customer service thats a laugh. They have gone from the best CS to simply the WORST

-nm-

I'm not a SoB player (sorry), but I do have a Grey Knights army purely because GW released the old Daemonhunters codex as a free PDF when they ran out of physical copies about 6 months before the 5th edition update. I downloaded it (and the Witch Hunters PDF) and found the fluff interesting and the models cool, so here I am.

It always amazes me that the continually ignore the ability to hook people in by giving them a taste of an army for free; the amount I've paid for the Grey Knight and Inquisitorial models, plus then the new codex, makes any profit they would have made from selling the PDF look trivial and they probably wouldn't have got any of it if I'd had to pay for the PDF, because I wouldn't have bought it in the first place!

Edit for spelling

whitetornado wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Disbelieve.

GW painted itself into a corner on SoB models, they don't want to keep them in metal, don't want to do them in Finecast, and don't have new ones ready to go.

So why support something when they have few/no models to sell right now?

I say turn it over to Forgeworld. Let them make great models and do the sisters justice. If the alternative is standing around waiting for an answer to show up and ultimately doing nothing, i think forgeworld would be a better choice.

I mostly just lurk on this board these days, and I've never considered myself a rumormonger, AND I don't know the name of the guy who I spoke to... but:

When I was at Gen Con, at the GW/FW booth, I asked a guy behind the counter, one, if he had an Aquilla to sell me, and two, if GW was ever going to print Sisters of Battle, again.

He said, "Sisters of What?"

I said, "Thank you. I needed to hear that. I feel I have closure, now." And I started walking away.

Then he said, "In all seriousness, though, if you're following the Heresy storyline that the Forgeworld books are doing, you'll know an organization similar to the sisters is coming up in the narrative."

I said, "You're just jerking me around, now."

He said, "Oh, the Aquilla is out of print, these days."

I had no idea what he was referring to as far as the similar organization, but a friend of mine that was with me said it might be the Sisters of Silence? I don't know. Anyhow, that's what was said to me. I think he was jerking me around, but I don't know. Only seemed relevant to post after reading your comment.

Sisters of Silence is an obvious force to add for The Heresy. But cool as they are, they're absolutely *not* Adepta Sororitas...

Valete,

JohnS

The Sisters update has been rumoured for years. If it had happened 2-3 years ago, I'd probably still be playing 40K.

 Elemental wrote:
The Sisters update has been rumoured for years. If it had happened 2-3 years ago, I'd probably still be playing 40K.

Yeah, but that was Ghost21 claiming that and we found out that he's a liar so I wouldn't count it honestly.

There were old rumors about models being worked on, but that's not the same thing as the codex being updated.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Only what, two years late? Better late than never, I suppose.

What kind of Sisters fans wouldn't buy their own Codex when it was published?

This only hurt the prospect of new players. But it doesn't seem like GW has been terribly interested in cultivating new players for the SOB at the moment. I'd assume it has to do with the supply/demand of the metal models when they deal almost exclusively in plastic and resin now.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
What kind of Sisters fans wouldn't buy their own Codex when it was published?

A poor one?

 cygnnus wrote:
Sisters of Silence is an obvious force to add for The Heresy. But cool as they are, they're absolutely *not* Adepta Sororitas...

Valete,

JohnS

Well that's actually debated.

What exactly happened to the Sisters of Silence is unknown. The assumption is that they got integrated into the nascent Inquisition and then ceased to exist as their own organization, but there is nothing to stop the Sisters of Silence to have been expanded during the Heresy and then to later have been the organization that would later become the Adeptas Sororitas.

Yes there is.

The origin of Adepta Sororitas prohibits them from originating as Sisters of Silence.

The Sisters of Battle originated as a band of warrior-women who lived on a primitive backwater planet and were collectively too ignorant of the Imperium to know what a rosarius was. Vandire tricked them into becoming his henchmen, and after his defeat they became the Sisters of Battle.

Not a whole lot of room in there for the Sisters to have originated from an army of Untouchables governed by the Adepta Telepathicus. That concept makes about as much sense as Space Marines originating from Orks.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yes there is.

The origin of Adepta Sororitas prohibits them from originating as Sisters of Silence.

Uh no actually. It does not.

The simple fact is that between the disappearance of the Sisters of Silence(the Heresy era is the last time we hear of them) and the discovery of the "Daughters of the Emperor" to the founding of the "Brides of the Emperor" under Vandire, you have a fairly hefty chunk of time. There is also absolutely nothing preventing the "Daughters of the Emperor" having been an offshoot of the Sisters of Silence except for the fact that as of yet we have not had that connection made.

Bear in mind I'm not saying "The Adepta Sororitas are all Pariahs and fire anti-psyker lasers from their eyes!", I'm simply saying that the organizational patterns of the Sororitas and Sisters of Silence have a recognizable similarity and both organizations have thus far put a notable emphasis on self-sacrifice and the destruction of an individual's identity in favor of service to a cause.

Also this is of course speculation on my part. But it's not a huge reach to say that the organizational patterns of the Sisters of Silence might have survived the absorption of the actual order into the Inquisition.

 Elemental wrote:
The Sisters update has been rumoured for years.

True, but I don't think that the prospect ever had quite so much weight to it as it has now. We've got multiple devs outright saying that an SoB codex is in the works, devs saying that the modelling issues have been overcome and now a reliable source saying this. Those are certainly good signs.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
But it doesn't seem like GW has been terribly interested in cultivating new players for the SOB at the moment.

If this rumour proves true, then that's a big part of what this PDF would be intended to do.

Two issues of White Dwarf? I'm fairly sure that isn't breaking the bank and if it is, you're not playing 40K to begin with. I can sponsor a kid in some third world country for less than the price of a cup of coffee each day.

It was more of a joke anyway.

Regardless, this issue has been fairly obvious to those with a business background for a while.

1. They aren't interested in cultivating demand for the Sisters. Probably on purpose. It makes a decent "dog" product that generates revenue, but they don't have any interest in trying to expand that market share. The reason for this is probably that they don't want to have to meet the increased demand by producing more product. They're out of the metal business. They don't want to invest in making Finecast molds for a slow selling product, or they don't want to invest in the Finecast molds because they actually are working on a new range of Sisters and they wouldn't net a positive return on investment (ROI) before being replaced by new models.

2. They haven't created new Sisters in the past because while there is an expected ROI on new Sisters, that expected ROI is lower than the projected ROI for other projects. basically this. If you have one codex's worth of designers available, you have them work on the project that is most profitable. This is the most often overlooked part of this whole thing. People look at a lack of Sisters models and rules and say "GW hates money." But the reality is, maybe they expected to sell far more copies and models for, say, Codex: Necrons than Codex: Sisters of Battle, but they only have studio assets (designers, writers, artists, sculptors) available for one book. So Sisters gets shelved for the product with a better projected ROI. This became a vicious cycle for the Sisters, being continually benched because there was another, more profitable product that was given precedence.


Mind you, this is all speculation since GW remains tight lipped about production schedules and future products, etc. But it makes perfect business sense. GW gets a ton of flak for being too profit driven and not hobby driven, and then suddenly people think that they are ignoring a potential profit by not making the Sisters. It's a fairly hilarious contradiction, but some people are hard set believing it.

One of the things that recent blog series about GW's financials brought up was that they had expanded their design personnel by 30%. This is a glimmer of hope for Sisters fans. Right now, codex books are being updated at a pace not seen in a long time. Which means they have brought more writers/sculptors/designers etc on board to cover an expanded volume of products. I think it's probably fairly unrealistic to expect the Sisters to slide in ahead of the other armies that don't have a pricey hardback codex yet, but it means that eventually, assuming GW retains that additional staff for FY14, they will complete all the books that need to be updated for 6th (Spwolves, Blangels, Orks, Tyranids, Deldar, Iguard) and then have room for other projects.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Uh no actually. It does not.

Yes it does.

How can the Sisters of Battle be an army converted from the Sisters of Silence if their origin story is that Sisters of Battle were a primitive band of warrior women found on a backwater planet and tricked by Vandire into fighting for him? That directly contradicts the idea that they could have originated from an army of Untouchables under the Adeptus Astrotelepathicus.

Oh snap. GW fluff battle. I'll be taking bets, Kanluwen is favoured at, say, 3 to 1.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The simple fact is that between the disappearance of the Sisters of Silence(the Heresy era is the last time we hear of them) and the discovery of the "Daughters of the Emperor" to the founding of the "Brides of the Emperor" under Vandire, you have a fairly hefty chunk of time. There is also absolutely nothing preventing the "Daughters of the Emperor" having been an offshoot of the Sisters of Silence except for the fact that as of yet we have not had that connection made.

Nah. There's nothing in the SoB background currently to suggest this. As it stands, they were an isolated religious sect on a primitive world. Nothing about them being offshoots of anything.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm simply saying that the organizational patterns of the Sororitas and Sisters of Silence have a recognizable similarity and both organizations have thus far put a notable emphasis on self-sacrifice and the destruction of an individual's identity in favor of service to a cause.

Pretty much all Imperial forces are like that, though.

Call me cynical, but I think that people are mostly connecting the two because they're both all-female. Though granted, both also have their roles against psykers and both also use bolters and power armor. Though the Daughters of the Emperor weren't originally using that equipment.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Uh no actually. It does not.

Yes it does.

How can the Sisters of Battle be an army converted from the Sisters of Silence if their origin story is that Sisters of Battle were a primitive band of warrior women found on a backwater planet and tricked by Vandire into fighting for him? That directly contradicts the idea that they could have originated from an army of Untouchables under the Adeptus Astrotelepathicus.

You are way too focused on the "Untouchables" part and ignoring the "Organizational patterns and shared traditions" bit. The Sororitas were not the first to have "vows of penance".

Yes, right now there is no pen to paper linkages. That is why I said it is speculation in my post and why I spoke of it as speculation rather than a definitive fact.
The Heresy books have become a breeding ground for placement of little things relating to local traditions/variances. "First Heretic" established why Cadians primarily have violet eyes for example.

Also: I'm not going to argue the point anymore. Sorry for being off-topic folks.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
2. They haven't created new Sisters in the past because while there is an expected ROI on new Sisters, that expected ROI is lower than the projected ROI for other projects. basically this. If you have one codex's worth of designers available, you have them work on the project that is most profitable. This is the most often overlooked part of this whole thing. People look at a lack of Sisters models and rules and say "GW hates money." But the reality is, maybe they expected to sell far more copies and models for, say, Codex: Necrons than Codex: Sisters of Battle, but they only have studio assets (designers, writers, artists, sculptors) available for one book. So Sisters gets shelved for the product with a better projected ROI. This became a vicious cycle for the Sisters, being continually benched because there was another, more profitable product that was given precedence.

Actually, modelling issues were likely a big factor in keeping them on the backburner. Plastics weren't possible, so GW kept them to one side because they couldn't "move forward" with them. Why bother if they can't be advanced out of metal? But now, presently, we have devs outright saying that an update is coming, and that the modelling issues are resolved.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Only what, two years late? Better late than never, I suppose.

What kind of Sisters fans wouldn't buy their own Codex when it was published?

I wouldn't. If they'd been released two years ago, I could have bought Sisters for ~$18 a box, by buying them at a 20% discount with free shipping from Maelstrom. If they were released today they'd be closer to $60.

No offense, but they've been blowing that up your skirts for a while. I'd think you were used to the breeze by now.


Ultimately, anything and everything you hear is a lie, because they never say anything about future products. Asking over and over is pointless, because you are going to get a blow off answer depending on who you ask. Somebody prepared? "Yeah, they're uh, coming." Somebody not prepared? "Uh, what? Uh..."

They were still pretending that the entire Internet didn't know about Codex Space Marines, a week out from release. But you think they're telling you the truth about Sisters models and rules?

I mean, maybe they are working on them as we speak, maybe they aren't. But they sure as hell aren't telling you anything other than something to make you go away and stop asking them questions.


To believe anything you're being told as factual is fairly silly. I mean, yeah, eventually something will have to be right. Either the story that they aren't being made is true or the story that they are being made is true. You've got a 50/50 chance of being right on either story, right?

It would be nice to get the WD Codex legally, but without an actual update Sisters are even more uncompetitive now. The WD Codex Sisters were viable as long as Tactical Marines cost 16 points and Chapter Tactics were less powerful; but with the new 6th edition C:SM, for two more points than a Battle Sister you get a Marine with Chapter Tactics that are as good as 5th edition Faith, the same armour and weapons, and +1 to WS, S, T, and I. Not that anyone who's stuck with Sisters cared too much about competitiveness, but still, sheesh.

Rumors are neat but I'll believe a new Codex when I see it (and pray to the Emperor that I will). A least GW can't Squat the Sisters out of existence after giving them a chunk of pages in the 6th edition rulebook

 Kanluwen wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Uh no actually. It does not.

Yes it does.

How can the Sisters of Battle be an army converted from the Sisters of Silence if their origin story is that Sisters of Battle were a primitive band of warrior women found on a backwater planet and tricked by Vandire into fighting for him? That directly contradicts the idea that they could have originated from an army of Untouchables under the Adeptus Astrotelepathicus.

You are way too focused on the "Untouchables" part and ignoring the "Organizational patterns and shared traditions" bit. The Sororitas were not the first to have "vows of penance".

Yes, right now there is no pen to paper linkages. That is why I said it is speculation in my post and why I spoke of it as speculation rather than a definitive fact.
The Heresy books have become a breeding ground for placement of little things relating to local traditions/variances. "First Heretic" established why Cadians primarily have violet eyes for example.

Also: I'm not going to argue the point anymore. Sorry for being off-topic folks.

So it should be clear to everyone by Kan's own statement, there's no tie between the Sisters of Silence and the Adepta Sororitas other than pure speculation. Since the Franciscans have vows of penance, they too are linked to the Adepta Sororitas? Or is it just that they both sisterhoods and therefore must be linked? That speculation is thin gruel indeed...

'Course with how GW has thrown around the Magic Pen of Retcon these days, I wouldn't be surprised to see them create a link if they do make a new Codex. Because Necrons and Blood Angels!

But this is, indeed, off-topic.

Valete,

JohnS

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
No offense, but they've been blowing that up your skirts for a while. I'd think you were used to the breeze by now.

Tell me, when have they ever said the things I cited before? Can you cite other cases of Jervis saying that they are "definetely in the works", or that GW now has the technology to make plastics?

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Ultimately, anything and everything you hear is a lie, because they never say anything about future products.

Untrue. They preview new models and such often at events. Also, it's rather presumptuous to say that everything the GW devs say is a lie. Rather convinient for you argument too...

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Asking over and over is pointless, because you are going to get a blow off answer depending on who you ask. Somebody prepared? "Yeah, they're uh, coming." Somebody not prepared? "Uh, what? Uh..."

Actually, both of the incidents I referenced came out of Q&A sessions. Unless the devs specifically prepared to counter SoB questions, then their answers were actual answers. Unless, of course, they decided to specifically prepare for and completely lie about SoB-related questions this time around. Which I somehow doubt.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I mean, maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But they sure as hell aren't telling you anything other than something to make you go away and stop asking them questions.

I disagree. Before, their response to this was just vague reassurances or radio silence. Now, we have several writers specifically naming the Sisters as being in the works. And, in fairness, they're likely aware of how very long-suffering the SoB fanbase is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SisterSydney wrote:
It would be nice to get the WD Codex legally, but without an actual update Sisters are even more uncompetitive now. The WD Codex Sisters were viable as long as Tactical Marines cost 16 points and Chapter Tactics were less powerful; but with the new 6th edition C:SM, for two more points than Battle Sister you get a Marine with Chapter Tactics that are as good as 5th edition Faith, the same armour and weapons, and +1 to WS, S, T, and I. Not that anyone who's stuck with Sisters cared too much about competitiveness, but still, sheesh.

Nah, Sisters are actually pretty competetive in their own right, just a matter of playing them smart. Note how they get plenty of wins at tournaments. As for the new Marine 'dex, one codex isn't going to completely invalidate a single army. It changes nothing other than matches against the new Marines. And I'm sure that some SoB players were daunted by the new Tau codex too, but they've found ways to deal with the new Tau.

Speaking of GW's financials, the amount of money they made (and are still making) on this Marine release might be the kind of extra capital needed to properly fund a full model line with their current release schedule (as currently armies are getting smaller budgets than they have traditionally).

Assuming this to be the case, I think Sisters aren't a bad bet for the back half of 2014, or the front half of 2015. I'd also put my money down that a Marine book (likely Space Wolves or Blood Angels) drops in the same quarter to help shore up profits in case the Sisters don't do as well as they need to in that part of the year so the financials come out stable.

As an addendum, I'll also again point out what happened with the Dark Eldar. There's a precedent for them updating an undersupported army and it becoming a good seller. They've done more or less this exact thing before, and it paid off.

 Troike wrote:
As an addendum, I'll also again point out what happened with the Dark Eldar. There's a precedent for them updating an undersupported army and it becoming a good seller. They've done more or less this exact thing before, and it paid off.

Very true, but that was when each army was getting a bigger slice of the budget pie. That's why I think the major fiscal bump from the Marine release might help fund their eventual update.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but GW has been doing quite well financially for a while, yeah? I'm thinking that money shouldn't be too great of a constraint, hopefully. The dev comments certainly seem to imply that they're "officially on the schedule" now, as well.

 Troike wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but GW has been doing quite well financially for a while, yeah? I'm thinking that money shouldn't be too great of a constraint, hopefully. The dev comments certainly seem to imply that they're "officially on the schedule" now, as well.

Doing well, sure, but full model line reboots like this are expensive, and until they're selling those models they basically count as money that's essentially lost until the kits sell.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Elemental wrote:
The Sisters update has been rumoured for years. If it had happened 2-3 years ago, I'd probably still be playing 40K.

Yeah, but that was Ghost21 claiming that and we found out that he's a liar so I wouldn't count it honestly.
There were old rumors about models being worked on, but that's not the same thing as the codex being updated.

Harry said a long time ago that work on a Sororitas Codex started right after the work on the Grey Knight Codex, and that was before ghost21 posted any rumours. Harry is surprised that they don't have a full release yet. Other sources like Jes Goodwin etc. confirmed that work on models is proceeding.

 Kroothawk wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Elemental wrote:
The Sisters update has been rumoured for years. If it had happened 2-3 years ago, I'd probably still be playing 40K.

Yeah, but that was Ghost21 claiming that and we found out that he's a liar so I wouldn't count it honestly.
There were old rumors about models being worked on, but that's not the same thing as the codex being updated.

Harry said a long time ago that work on a Sororitas Codex started right after the work on the Grey Knight Codex, and that was before ghost21 posted any rumours. Harry is surprised that they don't have a full release yet. Other sources like Jes Goodwin etc. confirmed that work on models is proceeding.

If I recall correctly when the WD rumors started to circulate Ghost21 and Harry were on opposite sides of the fence.

Either way Harry's specialty was always models not codexes.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Disbelieve.

GW painted itself into a corner on SoB models, they don't want to keep them in metal, don't want to do them in Finecast, and don't have new ones ready to go.

So why support something when they have few/no models to sell right now?

If they have sculpts ready to go in plastic but are hesitant on using them in case the line doesn't sell, then this is a great idea. Put out e current rules in a very cheap way for them. See how it sells, gives them a good idea on the current player base for sisters.

People said similar things about the White Dwarf stopgap codex. That flew off the shelves and went for high prices on eBay. But did GW take it further? Nope.

Like the other WD that have contained rules, can see people buying up multiple copies of these to sell in a few months time..

RoninXiC wrote:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/loudnraging/raging-heroes-the-toughest-girls-of-the-galaxy

There ARE third party producers of sister like miniatures... you just need to wait a year or so until they are released. But I'm quite sure that they'll look stunningly awesome!

Raging Heroes has not produced 'sister-like' miniatures yet. Unless you mean that they are female.

 pretre wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/loudnraging/raging-heroes-the-toughest-girls-of-the-galaxy

There ARE third party producers of sister like miniatures... you just need to wait a year or so until they are released. But I'm quite sure that they'll look stunningly awesome!

Raging Heroes has not produced 'sister-like' miniatures yet. Unless you mean that they are female.

The "you just need to wait a year" implied that they are not yet released, but they are already announced:

Raging Heroes wrote:The Sisters of Eternal Mercy

If you happen to have thoroughly combed through the Raging Heroes' blog, you might remember The Orphanage of the Sisters of Eternal Mercy, a very early project of ours.

Well, the Sisters are about to see the light. We've been working on a futuristic Paladin Sisterhood army for quite some time now and we have a lot of stuff tucked away for this.

We're not releasing anything yet, to avoid confusion with the first Kickstarter project described above. However, we would very much like to get your input on this project, so don't hesitate to write us with your suggestions.
(Again, a forum will soon be set up to help with these interactions).
This project is likely to become another Kickstarter.

http://www.ragingheroes.com/blogs/news/1447582

 Kroothawk wrote:
The "you just need to wait a year" implied that they are not yet released, but they are already announced:

Ahh, I thought he was talking about when the kickstarter rewards shipped. Since even if the SoEM KS starts tomorrow, we won't see anything for quite some time. I am looking forward to it though, even though I wasn't so impressed with the first one.

 Kanluwen wrote:

You are way too focused on the "Untouchables" part and ignoring the "Organizational patterns and shared traditions" bit. The Sororitas were not the first to have "vows of penance".

Yes, right now there is no pen to paper linkages. That is why I said it is speculation in my post and why I spoke of it as speculation rather than a definitive fact.
The Heresy books have become a breeding ground for placement of little things relating to local traditions/variances. "First Heretic" established why Cadians primarily have violet eyes for example.

Also: I'm not going to argue the point anymore. Sorry for being off-topic folks.

I don't have a side in that argument, but am I the only one who finds it really annoying when someone gets in one last swing in an argument, and then calls to get back on topic?

 pretre wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/loudnraging/raging-heroes-the-toughest-girls-of-the-galaxy

There ARE third party producers of sister like miniatures... you just need to wait a year or so until they are released. But I'm quite sure that they'll look stunningly awesome!

Raging Heroes has not produced 'sister-like' miniatures yet. Unless you mean that they are female.

Yeah I'm pretty amazed people think that the Raging Hero models are "sisters of battle standins". They don't match the aesthetic in even the SLIGHTEST way. The 40k look is very precise, if you have the wrong armor or the wrong markings then your proxy model is a fairly bad substitute. This is why the Exo-lord models work as Space Marines because Anvil follows 40k 'style' where as those Raging Hero sculpts are only usable as imperial guard veterans or characters... using them as sisters of battle is cringe worthy.

 Kirasu wrote:
Yeah I'm pretty amazed people think that the Raging Hero models are "sisters of battle standins". They don't match the aesthetic in even the SLIGHTEST way. The 40k look is very precise, if you have the wrong armor or the wrong markings then your proxy model is a fairly bad substitute. This is why the Exo-lord models work as Space Marines because Anvil follows 40k 'style' where as those Raging Hero sculpts are only usable as imperial guard veterans or characters... using them as sisters of battle is cringe worthy.

I'm pretty amazed people don't read the post they find offending, mixing up the sculpts of an IG army with non-existing sculpts of a future release

HisDivineShadow wrote:Any one thinking plastic Sisters are going to be magically Cheaper are kidding themselves. They probably won't be cheaper then metals, just easier to work with.

Its strange that there aren't Sisters, now. since it could be done with basically 1.5 sprues. Seen the GK power armor sprue? Do exactly that. One Sprue. One Sprue could give you Celestians,, Battle Sisters, Seraphim, and Dominion Squads. Add in a character sprue for HQ, and Bam. Done.

Is it every option from the old Witch hunters? No. But gods it would shut people up

Actually, it's not 'magically cheaper'. It's realistically cheaper.

Using the GK example (which is the best way to go, I agree), they are £20.50 for 5, with all options, making a squad of 10, £41
It's currently £55 a squad of Battle Sisters (would £41 with 2 £20.50 boxes) and £43.50 for a squad of 5 Rets / Celestians / Seraphim (£20.50 with the 5 man box idea).

So for your standard army (Say, Celestine, 2 Troops, 1 squad Seraphim, 1 Squad Rets, 2 Exorcists) redone in plastic, with a £12 HQ, it's going to run you £225, instead of £325.

Even at £25 a box, it's still significantly cheaper than it is in all metal.

A friend of mine has been told that the plastics are in the works now and that there was supposed to be something regarding them at the end of this month. But seeing as the source was GW staff from a GW blue shirt who manned the till at Nottingham HQ..

 BrookM wrote:
A friend of mine has been told that the plastics are in the works now and that there was supposed to be something regarding them at the end of this month.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this I could remake my entire SOB army.

 pretre wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
A friend of mine has been told that the plastics are in the works now and that there was supposed to be something regarding them at the end of this month.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this I could remake my entire SOB army.

Let's go cray-cray then and share everything!

She was told that Jes was working on the range and that they are now working on the second tooling of the plastics.

There was also the story that the Sisters would be done as a supplement to the Space Marine codex..

Closer to that army now?

 BrookM wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
A friend of mine has been told that the plastics are in the works now and that there was supposed to be something regarding them at the end of this month.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this I could remake my entire SOB army.

Let's go cray-cray then and share everything!

She was told that Jes was working on the range and that they are now working on the second tooling of the plastics.

There was also the story that the Sisters would be done as a supplement to the Space Marine codex..

Closer to that army now?

Yep.

Although obviously the supplement part is new since when the last batch of rumors came out, supplements didn't really exist as such.

But still instantly dismissed as hell, why would our beloved Adepta become a supplement to Astartes?

 BrookM wrote:
But still instantly dismissed as hell, why would our beloved Adepta become a supplement to Astartes?

That seems like a logistical nightmare. At least if they became a supplement for GK, it would make more sense from a mechanic standpoint.

 BrookM wrote:
But still instantly dismissed as hell, why would our beloved Adepta become a supplement to Astartes?

Quite a few 40K fans seem to be insistent that the Sisters should be folded into something else.

 pretre wrote:
At least if they became a supplement for GK, it would make more sense from a mechanic standpoint.

Would it? Their playstyles are pretty different, from what I understand. Grey Knights are low-numbers and generally good in assault.

 Troike wrote:
Quite a few 40K fans seem to be insistent that the Sisters should be folded into something else.

Insert tortured innuendo here.

 pretre wrote:
At least if they became a supplement for GK, it would make more sense from a mechanic standpoint.

Would it? Their playstyles are pretty different, from what I understand. Grey Knights are low-numbers and generally good in assault.

GK have a variety of unit styles in the dex and are very customizable. Adding another unit type or two to the book wouldn't be difficult. I don't think it is a good idea, but it is better than C:SM

SoB as a supplement to C:SM is a joke right? My internet sarcasm detector is broken.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
SoB as a supplement to C:SM is a joke right? My internet sarcasm detector is broken.

D

Mostly.

The way that sisters would come as a supplement o c:gk might be as following.

Special rule armor of sisters: all the gk models must shoot and assault sister models, after all sisters models are dead the gk models receive 1+ invul save.

Ot, plastics would be better on the scale of modeling as well. It would increase modeling possibilities tenfold.

 pizzaguardian wrote:
The way that sisters would come as a supplement o c:gk might be as following.

Special rule armor of sisters: all the gk models must shoot and assault sister models, after all sisters models are dead the gk models receive 1+ invul save.

Ot, plastics would be better on the scale of modeling as well. It would increase modeling possibilities tenfold.

Better invuln only against Daemons of Khorne right?

Finally.

I haven't commented much since the WD codex came out... only played 1 game of 6th ed rules... still bought chaos codex... still bought the marine codex... but refuse to buy any models till I get my Sisters.

Hope this brings about something more than just a digital edition, but that's still better than nothing.

I have the 2 WD issues, however I don't really want to start a sisters army with all metal models, I can't stand metal or finecast.

 pretre wrote:

Would it? Their playstyles are pretty different, from what I understand. Grey Knights are low-numbers and generally good in assault.

GK have a variety of unit styles in the dex and are very customizable. Adding another unit type or two to the book wouldn't be difficult. I don't think it is a good idea, but it is better than C:SM

TiamatRoar wrote:
The silly thing about Grey Knights right now that would allow the sisters to be folded into them is that the Grey Knights lets you take various Ordos Xenos and Hereticus inquisitors as well as inquisitorial retinues and assassins. It's practically "Codex: Inquisitors without Deathwatch and Sisters" right now. Just add a few more units and slap in Deathwatch and Sisters and you'd basically end up with Codex: Inquisition.

It'd still be silly though because even though they're a militant arm, SoB and Deathwatch AND Grey Knights are still separate military organizations from the Inquisition when it comes down to things, but hey, if they're going to break that by basically folding all inquisitors into Grey Knights, why not fold EVERYTHING inquisitor-related into it?

...ideally sisters would get their own codex which also would logically have all the inquisitors, just like the Grey Knights, as opposed to this currently lobotomized situation where the Grey Knights basically took all the inquisitors from them, but the fact that this overlap exists would theretically allow them all to be in the same Codex, even if it'd be silly.

Sisters are no longer an Order Militant of the Inquisition. That was just for C:WH. In fact, C:WH was really the only era of SOB where they WERE part of the inquistion. I am much happier having them separate.

I forgot about this thread. Glad to see it isn't dead just yet.

Troike wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
But still instantly dismissed as hell, why would our beloved Adepta become a supplement to Astartes?

Quite a few 40K fans seem to be insistent that the Sisters should be folded into something else.

From my dealings with people, the ones who want them rolled into another book or dropped are the ones who "don't see the point" of the army. Be it a lack of knowing what they do, or just not understanding that an army isn't just its statline, or some other third reason I can't think of right now they believe that it'd be better for everyone if it got rolled....possibly off a cliff.

 pretre wrote:
At least if they became a supplement for GK, it would make more sense from a mechanic standpoint.

I could see that being a logistical mess too. Honestly Sister don't "fit" when you look at sticking them in another army. They don't really play like Marines, due to the differences in weapon options pushing them to be a short ranged army. Maybe with a LOT of changes we could see it happen, but not like this. At least in my opinion.

pizzaguardian wrote:The way that sisters would come as a supplement o c:gk might be as following.

Special rule armor of sisters: all the gk models must shoot and assault sister models, after all sisters models are dead the gk models receive 1+ invul save.

Ot, plastics would be better on the scale of modeling as well. It would increase modeling possibilities tenfold.

Yes, because every Sister ever should have an innate hatred for an organization they shouldn't even know exists and can't even know that they were partially responsible for the deaths of that coven.

I agree though, that the plastics would help a lot. We'd see an initial drop in the number of unique looking models without conversion or a LOT of options (last time I counted I think we've currently got somewhere in the tune of 52+ unique models in total right now) but the current level of plastic kits does bring hope in that matter.

pretre wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
The silly thing about Grey Knights right now that would allow the sisters to be folded into them is that the Grey Knights lets you take various Ordos Xenos and Hereticus inquisitors as well as inquisitorial retinues and assassins. It's practically "Codex: Inquisitors without Deathwatch and Sisters" right now. Just add a few more units and slap in Deathwatch and Sisters and you'd basically end up with Codex: Inquisition.

It'd still be silly though because even though they're a militant arm, SoB and Deathwatch AND Grey Knights are still separate military organizations from the Inquisition when it comes down to things, but hey, if they're going to break that by basically folding all inquisitors into Grey Knights, why not fold EVERYTHING inquisitor-related into it?

...ideally sisters would get their own codex which also would logically have all the inquisitors, just like the Grey Knights, as opposed to this currently lobotomized situation where the Grey Knights basically took all the inquisitors from them, but the fact that this overlap exists would theretically allow them all to be in the same Codex, even if it'd be silly.

Sisters are no longer an Order Militant of the Inquisition. That was just for C:WH. In fact, C:WH was really the only era of SOB where they WERE part of the inquistion. I am much happier having them separate.

Petre is on point, but there is another factor to consider too: each branch of the Inquisition deals with a different brand of Heresy. Now sometimes one may lead to another (Hereticus may end up fighting Daemons, or Xenos consorting with Daemons might cause the Deathwatch to need some specialist help), but ultimately they're their own things and if they end up all in the same book I see us needing something like the rules for the Space Marine codex. Declaring things as only options available to X army, and making things have to ally in to mix them.

Of course if Sisters get rolled back under the Inquisition I know that personally I'll be right tiffed.

I had a thought today, and if Battle Sisters stay 12ppm then I want to see some things added to the army to make up for their cost:

1. Adamantium Will (Gimmie)
2. Preffered Enemy (Psyker) OR Hatred (Psyker) (these would also work on units that have psykers in them just to make it easier)
3. Immunity to ID by Force Weapons back
4. Major Militant Order Traits. Each Order takes after the personality of the Saint that they were founded under (and in the case of the Minor Orders, the Saint that lead the Order they're based under). There is room for some really neat rules that be thrown in there for the fluff and I'd love to see it.

I know some of that is 3rd Ed Witch Hunters material, but Sisters have had a long standing dislike of all psykers and it'd be a really cool way to really give the army a unique feeling on the table as no one else has such a hard anti-psyker thing going for them (though Black Templars are a close one). Add in that they can never ally with an army that is lead by a Psyker (or that they automatically treat that army as Desperate Allies for the entire game) and they'd be pretty set I think.

ClockworkZion wrote:

pizzaguardian wrote:The way that sisters would come as a supplement o c:gk might be as following.

Special rule armor of sisters: all the gk models must shoot and assault sister models, after all sisters models are dead the gk models receive 1+ invul save.

Ot, plastics would be better on the scale of modeling as well. It would increase modeling possibilities tenfold.

Yes, because every Sister ever should have an innate hatred for an organization they shouldn't even know exists and can't even know that they were partially responsible for the deaths of that coven.

NoFunAllowed.jpg

"partially responsible"? How are the GK's only "partially responsible"? I mean, obviously the organization as a whole wasn't there, but those that were...

 streamdragon wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

pizzaguardian wrote:The way that sisters would come as a supplement o c:gk might be as following.

Special rule armor of sisters: all the gk models must shoot and assault sister models, after all sisters models are dead the gk models receive 1+ invul save.

Ot, plastics would be better on the scale of modeling as well. It would increase modeling possibilities tenfold.

Yes, because every Sister ever should have an innate hatred for an organization they shouldn't even know exists and can't even know that they were partially responsible for the deaths of that coven.

NoFunAllowed.jpg

"partially responsible"? How are the GK's only "partially responsible"? I mean, obviously the organization as a whole wasn't there, but those that were...

The Bloodtide was killing them first. The GKs only finished off the few that were left.

Can we talk about the potential Digital WD Codex Release now and not the tired old Bloodtide crap?

 pretre wrote:
Can we talk about the potential Digital WD Codex Release now and not the tired old Bloodtide crap?

It (the potential digital codex) does make me sort of wonder why they would do bother, honestly. I figure it comes down to one of a few scenarios:

1. Drum up support for the Sisters of Battle. I find this rather unlikely, honestly, given the cost in actually building a Sisters of Battle force these days.
2. Gauge interest. I still have both WD issues, and don't have an e-reader/tablet of any sort, so this release doesn't interest me at all. I suspect many are in the same position as I.
3. Release it as an e-dex to make money of the current Sisters of Battle players, especially those who were unable to get their hands on the WD issues.

I suppose I don't see the sales numbers or customer requests that GW does, but I find 3 just as unlikely as 1 or 2. A codex with no models won't get much interest, especially a codex that they have to realize is available online (illegaly, obviously). When the flyer rules for Stormtalons and Ork *Jets came out we had a similar WD set of rules, but they were never reprinted. Instead GW shoe-horned in an entire new book. I'm unsure how they would do something similar with Sisters without any sort of model release. I suppose since there's no print costs they only really have to cover the cost of the man-hours required to piece the two WD articles into a single iBook/eBook/PDF file.

 streamdragon wrote:
I figure it comes down to one of a few scenarios:

1. Drum up support for the Sisters of Battle. I find this rather unlikely, honestly, given the cost in actually building a Sisters of Battle force these days.
2. Gauge interest. I still have both WD issues, and don't have an e-reader/tablet of any sort, so this release doesn't interest me at all. I suspect many are in the same position as I.
3. Release it as an e-dex to make money of the current Sisters of Battle players, especially those who were unable to get their hands on the WD issues.

4. Release it as an e-dex so that existing and new SOB players have an option other than pirating or paying high prices on e-bay.

Isn't that what I said in point 3?

 streamdragon wrote:
Isn't that what I said in point 3?

I was providing an altruistic reason where as yours was purely to make money. Mine is much less likely.

 pretre wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
Isn't that what I said in point 3?

I was providing an altruistic reason where as yours was purely to make money. Mine is much less likely.

Ha! Fair enough, though when I said "make money" I didn't mean to attach any negative connotations to it. They're a business, I can't fault them for wanting to make money.

ClockworkZion wrote:
From my dealings with people, the ones who want them rolled into another book or dropped are the ones who "don't see the point" of the army. Be it a lack of knowing what they do, or just not understanding that an army isn't just its statline, or some other third reason I can't think of right now they believe that it'd be better for everyone if it got rolled....possibly off a cliff.

Yeah, this is usually true in my experience true.

 pretre wrote:
I was providing an altruistic reason where as yours was purely to make money. Mine is much less likely.

Why is it less likely? They released the Blood Angels WD codex for free as a PDF, IIRC.

 streamdragon wrote:
It (the potential digital codex) does make me sort of wonder why they would do bother, honestly.

As I've said, apparently they can now make plastics. Hence, this could well be a way of priming people for a big model/codex update.

 streamdragon wrote:
1. Drum up support for the Sisters of Battle. I find this rather unlikely, honestly, given the cost in actually building a Sisters of Battle force these days.

To be fair, it's hard to do because they're all web-only and all-metal. GW is likely aware of their own hand in this.

 streamdragon wrote:
2. Gauge interest.

I doubt it. As I've said, they're likely aware of the interest already. Their customer services and the devs themselves get asked about the SoB quite frequently. And, as ClockworkZion said, there was a time when they refused to answer quesitons about them, preumably becoming tired of getting them.

 streamdragon wrote:
especially a codex that they have to realize is available online

Their customer services certainly are. Though I'm unsure if GW knows that their customer service people have been advocating this. Though my local GW's manager was actually told by customer services to tell a customer to go download a PDF, so it seems they've been fairly open about it.

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I was providing an altruistic reason where as yours was purely to make money. Mine is much less likely.

Why is it less likely? They released the Blood Angels WD codex for free as a PDF, IIRC.

That was quite a few years ago. If you remember, they did the same with C:WH. When's the last time they did something similar?

 pretre wrote:
When's the last time they did something similar?

When's the last time an army had a White Dwarf codex?

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
When's the last time they did something similar?

When's the last time they had a White Dwarf codex?

Compare the time between release of WD C:BA and the Free Digital version. Then compare the time between the release of WD C:SOB and the free digital version.

Heck, BA had a real codex much sooner than we ever got a digital version (even if this rumor is true).

Right, and it ties in well with the comments from the developers that we've been seeing recently. They seem to have a solid plan to do something with the Sisters now, so they're drumming up interest again. That's my theory, anyway.

 pretre wrote:
BA had a real codex much sooner than we ever got a digital version (even if this rumor is true).

Ah, but the BA never had modelling issues holding them back.

 Troike wrote:
Right, and it ties in well with the comments from the developers that we've been seeing recently. They seem to have a solid plan to do something with the Sisters now, so they're drumming up interest again.

I guess we'll just meet back here in six months and compare notes on the new release.*

* Note: I've said this quite a bit in the last 10 years in reference to rumors about a new SOB codex or minis. It was right once.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
BA had a real codex much sooner than we ever got a digital version (even if this rumor is true).

Ah, but the BA never had modelling issues holding them back.

IF that is what was holding the SOB back. We have some anecdotal 'evidence' of a discussion at a games day or somesuch 5 years ago to go off for that.

What's meant to be happening in six months?

 pretre wrote:
IF that is what was holding the SOB back. We have some anecdotal 'evidence' of a discussion at a games day or somesuch 5 years ago to go off for that.

I thought the Jes also said so in an interview? Unless that was the interview.

 Troike wrote:
What's meant to be happening in six months?

I mean that in six months time another thread about a SOB release will come out and we'll all chuckle knowingly and debate the whole thing over again.

I thought the Jes also said so in an interview? Unless that was the interview.

Supposedly. Unless Lynata pops in and gives me a link though, I'll go ahead and list that as 'anecdotal'.

 pretre wrote:
Supposedly. Unless Lynata pops in and gives me a link though, I'll go ahead and list that as 'anecdotal'.

It does seem that the devs have been saying it consistently for a while.

He did stress that they really wanted to crack on with Sisters, but that they had been causing them technical difficulties for quite some time.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/328983.page

Oh yeah, one last thing about the Sisters of Battle. According to Phil Kelly, the reason why they never got plastic minis was because they couldn't be plastic moulded by the current process.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sisters-of-battle.html

A couple of these ones got some further points. It was mentioned that originally there had been a technical problem with developing Sisters plastics, but that Games Workshop would now have the technology to be able to do them.

http://the-responsible-one.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/enter-citadel-ask-audience-we-want-to.html

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
When's the last time they did something similar?

When's the last time an army had a White Dwarf codex?

When's the last time a White Dwarf had actual content?
Certainly not with the current editor.

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Supposedly. Unless Lynata pops in and gives me a link though, I'll go ahead and list that as 'anecdotal'.

It does seem that the devs have been saying it consistently for a whie.

Fair enough, there is a bit of anecdotal evidence from games days, etc (as I mentioned previously) that they have been talking about that as a problem.

I still don't think that it would matter either way to releasing it as a digital file but withdraw my earlier comment about that not being a factor.

 pretre wrote:
Still don't think that it would matter either way to releasing it as a digital file.

Like I said before, my theory is that it's a result of them being able to make plastics and deciding to start work on an update. I view this as a move to take them "off of the backburner" as a result of those factors, and as an attempt to get people interested in the SoB in preperation for an actual update.

Just some speculation on my part, especially since it's still just a rumour, so we'll have to wait and see what happens. But hey, SoB fans are good at waiting, I guess.

I have a bad feeling that GW is going release a digital copy of the white dwarf rules then roll them into the GK codex with a supplement codex. This statement is just something I came up with myself, and has no rumors backing it so please don't take it as fact.

It should be crazy simple to add the WD rules to the digital content they already sell online. Although if they did, I would not consider it a harbinger of a future codex, or model wave.

 pretre wrote:

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
When's the last time they did something similar?

When's the last time they had a White Dwarf codex?

Compare the time between release of WD C:BA and the Free Digital version. Then compare the time between the release of WD C:SOB and the free digital version.

Heck, BA had a real codex much sooner than we ever got a digital version (even if this rumor is true).

If I recall the turn around time for between the BA WD and Codex was around 18 months.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

l0k1 wrote:I have a bad feeling that GW is going release a digital copy of the white dwarf rules then roll them into the GK codex with a supplement codex. This statement is just something I came up with myself, and has no rumors backing it so please don't take it as fact.

As it comes up often: Sisters were only part of the Inquisition for one codex, and then stopped.

Plus that would just be a mess, or basically be two books turned into one with massive restrictions and the like all over the place. I can't imagine it as anything but a bloated mess. I'm not saying it's impossible, just really unlikely.

Insurgency Walker wrote:It should be crazy simple to add the WD rules to the digital content they already sell online. Although if they did, I would not consider it a harbinger of a future codex, or model wave.

I wouldn't say it's "crazy simple" as they have to unscrew the layout from the the WD stuff (like the mixed up unit order that was used to keep us from guessing which units went in which slots (as if we couldn't figure most of them out anyways)), but it wouldn't be really hard either.

I still hold out hope that it gets tweaked, just to justify them taking so long to release it.

I could see an =I= dex happening you know. Considering the new SM dex has restrictions on chapter rules and characters etc. Itnwould be a bit messier thsn the sm dex but not beyound the realms of possibility.

The last schedule of release rumours pegged Nov 2014 as either Blood Angels OR Sisters of Battle...something that far ahead certainly makes me wonder if it holds water but TBH I don't see anything happening before then (in terms of new content/dex/minis) but I suppose they could release the WD dex digitally before then, but would there be much point?

D

Seeing the history of the SoB, it certainly seems like it's GW 's intent to have them as their own army, that one WH Codex aside. And now that they can apparently make plastic Sisters, they can finally make them a proper, new model range.

Apart from that, more or less what ClockworkZion said. Bloated mess, wouldn't make sense fluff-wise, ect.

@evildrcheese
The point would be to get people interested in and hopefully the Sisters, thus getting them ready for a proper update. And hey, releasing it as a PDF would certainly get people talking.

Bah, GW needs to get over its '80s misogyny and retool the fluff to allow for full-on female space marines if they're not going to support Sisters of Battle.

If nothing else, have them be one of the odd survivors of the failed "Cursed Founding" - have them put in cryo or something and now they've been thawed out to help save the Imperium from its impending twilight.

Stormonu wrote:
Bah, GW needs to get over its '80s misogyny and retool the fluff to allow for full-on female space marines if they're not going to support Sisters of Battle.

If nothing else, have them be one of the odd survivors of the failed "Cursed Founding" - have them put in cryo or something and now they've been thawed out to help save the Imperium from its impending twilight.

No, but female guard is another topic...

Sisters in a guard codex don't really work because both they and GK have large enough infantry ranges that they overlap quite a bit as far as roles go. And some of the remaining holes in the GK book would be better suited by more thematic units.
Sisters would do better to get their own book, and expand in their own direction with new vehicles and units.

Stormonu wrote:
Bah, GW needs to get over its '80s misogyny and retool the fluff to allow for full-on female space marines if they're not going to support Sisters of Battle.

So female heads for the Marine models then?

In all seriousness, I don't think GW is being malicious about their support of the Sisters. There are at least 3 people mentioned to be working in the Studio who have Sisters armies (no, I don't know if Cruddace is honestly being counted in this group) so it's not like there aren't people who won't go to bat there to get the army updated. It's just a matter of time, money, and GW having the right equipment.

My money is still on the back half of 2014 for a proper codex, so if they finally get the digital one online it can start drumming up that interest nicely.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Heck, BA had a real codex much sooner than we ever got a digital version (even if this rumor is true).

If I recall the turn around time for between the BA WD and Codex was around 18 months.

According to wikipedia the BA WD dex got released in WD (329/300 USA) in June/July 2007. BA codex proper came out in April 2010 so a period of just under 3 years.
The Sisters WD (379/380 USA) codex came out in August/September 2011.
If Sisters have their WD codex the same length of time as BA we should expect a Codex mid next year ... sometime ... hopefully.

I do not see a combined Inquisition codex or one with Sisters and GK's together, as GW have already had that opportunity and did not take it.

As already said previously, the current mentions of SoB by GW seems to be them starting to build up interest in SoB ready for a later release. No point in building up interest if you don't have anything to sell.

 Desteele wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

Heck, BA had a real codex much sooner than we ever got a digital version (even if this rumor is true).

If I recall the turn around time for between the BA WD and Codex was around 18 months.

According to wikipedia the BA WD dex got released in WD (329/300 USA) in June/July 2007. BA codex proper came out in April 2010 so a period of just under 3 years.
The Sisters WD (379/380 USA) codex came out in August/September 2011.
If Sisters have their WD codex the same length of time as BA we should expect a Codex mid next year ... sometime ... hopefully.

Better than I thought AND matches my guesstimated timeline!