As many of you know, GW made a surprise release of a new character for CSM/Daemons. This guy is a CSM land raider + 120 points of awesome.
He has shrouded, a +1 S master crafted armorbane/fleshbane sword, 4++, and ETERNAL WARRIOR!
Most importantly, he is ML3 and knows ALL the Telepathy powers. This combined with the fact that he gains D3 warp charge if any enemies failed morale in the previous turn makes him a powerful psyker that will be harassing the enemy all game.
With invisibility he will always have a 2+ jink. He doesn't even need to use telepathy if he has ruins cover.
I am extremely excited, as I always ran 2 DPs in 5th, and haven't run one in 6th because of no EW warrior and the fact that it will lose to any other MC in combat most of the time.
In my opinion Be'Lakor is a game changer for CSM.

I am not a Daemons player, but I can imagine that he brings a whole new level to the flying circus.

What is everybody else's opinion on this?

Basically, for my purposes, I'm going to run him as an allied Chaos Space Marine HQ for my Daemons list (as at LD10 he would be warlord over Fateweaver). This gives me guranteed invisibility which is a huge deal. That means my Book Tzeentch Prince will always be rocking a 2+ cover, rerollable. This generally frees me up to run max biomancy on my other Princes, as I always have the Telepathy tech I need (Hallucinate for Deathstars, Puppet Master for Tau, etc). In turn, one of my other Princes can throw Endurance back on Malcaor, making him more durable (as he has no armor). As he has Eternal Warrior and Fleshbane, he's a fantastic MC hunter. He can go kill WKs, Riptides, other DPs, etc, without any real fear (and can invis himself so that they're hitting on 5s if they wouldn't otherwise).

There is effectively no downside for my FMC lists running him, even the cultists aren't a liability because I can run them behind/inside my Bastion.

I've not heard of this, but this DEFINITELY warrants further investigation.

EDIT:

Bought the book.

He seems to be a fantastic buff to a Flying Circus build. I'd go as far as to say it cements Daemons/CSM as the top of the pile.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
I've not heard of this, but this DEFINITELY warrants further investigation.

Came out today. It's effectively a few pages of decent fluff and a rules page. It's 4 bucks. I'm about to go try to get a game to play test him, but on paper I think he's a must run in my Daemons list.

It's also "Day 1 of the Digital Advent" Which probably means we have 23 more of these coming.

Is it from black library?

Yeah he definitely seems to be a must-have in any CSM or Daemons army. I don't think I'll be using Invisibility on himself much, mostly other DPs or basically anything, since he already has shrouded. Pretty much any unit could benefit greatly.
The fact that he can be firing off almost every telepathy power per turn if the enemy fails any morale makes him crazy.

Mental fortitude will be absolutely priceless to keep cultist squads on objectives.

He is a game breaker. The ability to throw out powers like terrify, puppet master, and hallucination on a whim along with having access to consistent invisibility is absurd.

herpguy wrote:
Yeah he definitely seems to be a must-have in any CSM or Daemons army. I don't think I'll be using Invisibility on himself much, since he already has shrouded. He can buff any unit I need hugely that would benefit greatly from Telepathy (which is anything).
The fact that he can be firing off almost every telepathy power per turn if the enemy fails any morale makes him crazy.

Mental fortitude will be absolutely priceless to keep cultist squads on objectives.

Right, I plan on throwing Invis from him onto my Grimoire Prince, and then I can throw Endurance or Grimoire back onto him. Plus all the other Telepathy tech, as you mentioned. Fortitude is also awesome on Daemon FMCs. Fateweaver can go to ground on turn 1 for example, then stand back up with Fortitude and fly forward doing his thing.

 anonymou5 wrote:
Basically, for my purposes, I'm going to run him as an allied Chaos Space Marine HQ for my Daemons list (as at LD10 he would be warlord over Fateweaver). This gives me guranteed invisibility which is a huge deal. That means my Book Tzeentch Prince will always be rocking a 2+ cover, rerollable. This generally frees me up to run max biomancy on my other Princes, as I always have the Telepathy tech I need (Hallucinate for Deathstars, Puppet Master for Tau, etc). In turn, one of my other Princes can throw Endurance back on Malcaor, making him more durable (as he has no armor). As he has Eternal Warrior and Fleshbane, he's a fantastic MC hunter. He can go kill WKs, Riptides, other DPs, etc, without any real fear (and can invis himself so that they're hitting on 5s if they wouldn't otherwise).

There is effectively no downside for my FMC lists running him, even the cultists aren't a liability because I can run them behind/inside my Bastion.

Just remember your a Warlord comes from your primary detachment.

You are right anonymou5. I have been mulling over getting some daemons for the longest time but I think Be'Lakor puts me over the edge.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 anonymou5 wrote:
Basically, for my purposes, I'm going to run him as an allied Chaos Space Marine HQ for my Daemons list (as at LD10 he would be warlord over Fateweaver). This gives me guranteed invisibility which is a huge deal. That means my Book Tzeentch Prince will always be rocking a 2+ cover, rerollable. This generally frees me up to run max biomancy on my other Princes, as I always have the Telepathy tech I need (Hallucinate for Deathstars, Puppet Master for Tau, etc). In turn, one of my other Princes can throw Endurance back on Malcaor, making him more durable (as he has no armor). As he has Eternal Warrior and Fleshbane, he's a fantastic MC hunter. He can go kill WKs, Riptides, other DPs, etc, without any real fear (and can invis himself so that they're hitting on 5s if they wouldn't otherwise).

There is effectively no downside for my FMC lists running him, even the cultists aren't a liability because I can run them behind/inside my Bastion.

Just remember your a Warlord comes from your primary detachment.

Right, that's why I would run Be'Lakor in an allied detachment. Fateweaver has to be the warlord for the Circus to be viable. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Love him. His fluff gets me geeked out and it's buffed both substantive lists I run. For my CSM, I'm taking him as the second HQ as he fills a huge void that I had with speed/threat range as well as support. As for my daemons, I'm allying him in via CSM as a much improved daemon prince.

All in all, a net buff for both my regular armies and fluffy, since I play Word Bearers and he's essentially an Undivided Prince.

Yeah I have to say one of the things I like most is that he is an Undivided Prince.
He definitely does fill a void in CSM armies. Now I really want to try out a flying circus with him allied in.

Bought the digital, it's pretty good. Oh and his rules, damn he is sweet! He has definitely a position in my flying circus lists! Ofc he is viable in the allies detachment so he can leave space for FW to be the boss.

I do not like digital releases at all, I like to see stuff in a book. But I am really tempted. I have owned a Be´Lakor model since forever, using it as a DP / Bloodthirster for my CSM / Daemons. And the rules look fine.

And it is Undivided! About time Chaos Undivided get some love.

I am really pleased.

Should have given him Daemons of everything rule instead

Honestly though, he's pretty godly, I like it

He is for the CSM book and the Daemons book?

MarkyMark wrote:
He is for the CSM book and the Daemons book?

Both!

I think that the "knows all telepathy spells" rule is the real selling point with him. Guaranteed Invisibility and Puppet Master makes him ideal for most CSM and Daemon lists.
His price isn't that high considering a fully kitted CSM Tzeentch DP with 3 mastery levels, wings. power armour and the Black Mace already costs around 320.

I will try him out as soon as possible.

There is something bigger then just a daemon price. They have just changed the game by adding a new kind of detachment.

Head over here to see some scans to understand what I mean. This is big.

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=454

So the Codex: Inquisition was a taste of things to come. You will now be able to build your army out of the following:

Primary Detachment
Allied Detachment
Allied Formation

The Allied Formation allows players to include units from 3 different codex.

Actually the usual kitted out DP runs 355, so Be'Lakor is definitely appropriately priced.
Knowing all the Telepathy powers lets him control the battlefield. Also with his special warp charge ability he can be easily: casting invisibility on a fellow DP, casting puppet master on an enemy unit, casting psychic shriek on that unit he just vector struck, + using mental fortitude on that obligatory cultist squad that is falling back and would otherwise need snake eyes to regroup, casting dominate to annoy a unit, and finally casting terrify on another.
Yes, he can quite possibly cast 6 powers in a single turn.

I thought #of spells allowed to be cast = ml

Hmmm actually I think you're right.

I wonder what his extra warp charges could be any good for then?

Casting multiple warp charge 2and powers

Wow....I might have to give him a try.

 Makutsu wrote:
I thought #of spells allowed to be cast = ml

Nope, no such rule. Only the other way around, that your Mastery Level is equal to the number of spells you can cast when your codex is too old to include Mastery Level.

herpguy wrote:
Hmmm actually I think you're right.

I wonder what his extra warp charges could be any good for then?

Well, hallucination and invisibility is 2 charges each so it could be useful.

But the guy above says there's no such rule, so I'm not too sure.

Pg. 66 - "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level."

Anyways, I forgot that Invisibility was 2 warp charges. His extra warp charges can be very useful then, as he will probably be casting that every turn.

So Nice my Choas/CSM flying circus just got so much better I just hope he doesnt turn out to be too fragile! for the points since no armour save and no re-rolls of 1

With 5+cover, 4++ and eternal warrior base (+ wings) I think he should be good. I'm actually glad he doesn't have armour, he has 1/2 chance to pass instead of 2/3 but grav weapons (which seem to be popular among marine armies) can't do much to him (hit on 6, wound on 6, 4++ or 3+ cover w/ jink or 2+ cover w/ invis and jink)

he's pretty much 3+ cover at all times unless you put him outside of terrain which is not very likely.
Hopping between terrain and if lucky ruins giving him a 2+ cover.

Combined with 2 Greater Daemons and maybe 3 Daemon Princes your opponent is going to have a handful to deal with...

While having full Telepathy is obviously huge and a well needed buff to CSM/Daemons, he still suffers from the problems inherent to all Daemon Princes: chump challengers and being effective only in assault from turn 2 earliest.

Does he suffer from Daemonic Instability?

Fearless, not unstable. so no GTG but no instability from combat res. The biggest weakness I can see is poor shooting, and not as survivable as a tzeentch prince that is trying to live.

xera32 wrote:
Fearless, not unstable. so no GTG but no instability from combat res. The biggest weakness I can see is poor shooting, and not as survivable as a tzeentch prince that is trying to live.

As opposed to a Khorne prince who's trying to die?

Shriek isn't too bad, but you'll be spending your precious warp points on other things, I reckon. (Telepathy disciplines are so expensive...)

Guaranteed Invis makes him worth every point though. He's Loth-level op.

Daemons can get Teleapthy on princes and Slaanesh pyskers, so it is not like we dont have any. CSM can get them across the board (princes and socerors's iirc). But I do have a plan in mind for this little fella.....

MarkyMark wrote:
Daemons can get Teleapthy on princes and Slaanesh pyskers, so it is not like we dont have any. CSM can get them across the board (princes and socerors's iirc). But I do have a plan in mind for this little fella.....

Yeah, but being able to get Telepathy, and knowing all the Telepathy powers is a pretty huge difference.

 Sasori wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Daemons can get Teleapthy on princes and Slaanesh pyskers, so it is not like we dont have any. CSM can get them across the board (princes and socerors's iirc). But I do have a plan in mind for this little fella.....

Yeah, but being able to get Telepathy, and knowing all the Telepathy powers is a pretty huge difference.

Look. In order for csm to have an eternal warrior DP they had to take biomancy or black legion skull ken'gar.
So with 350 he is preety damn good. He can't be on CD main force along with FW though cause LD10 screws FW warlord trait.
Apart from that he is a beast. Oh and he doesn't need smash to ruin vehicles cause of armourbane. He is totally worth the points. Puppet master on riptide and goodbye.

You can always just ally him in using 50 pts of cultists.

Meh he is easier to kill then a flyrant. Once grounded you can shoot him until he stops twitching. T5 W4 is pretty lame if it wasn't for one important factor...

The model itself, he is tiny, which means you can hide the bastard very easily.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Meh he is easier to kill then a flyrant. Once grounded you can shoot him until he stops twitching. T5 W4 is pretty lame if it wasn't for one important factor...

The model itself, he is tiny, which means you can hide the bastard very easily.

He does have shrouded too, so 2+ in ruins isn't that bad or 3+ normally which makes him pretty much the same as a Daemon Prince and slightly cheaper than a fully kitted one.
Wave Serpents and Tau are still going to be a pain though...

 Ravenous D wrote:
Meh he is easier to kill then a flyrant. Once grounded you can shoot him until he stops twitching. T5 W4 is pretty lame if it wasn't for one important factor...

The model itself, he is tiny, which means you can hide the bastard very easily.

He isn't easier to kill than a Flyrant, unless the Flyrant has IA. Even then, it's quite a toss up.

Just casting invisibility on himself is a 2+ Jink save. That means that you have get past his 2+, then another 3+ to ground him. That's much more than it takes to ground a Flyrant. Once they are both the ground, they can both be shot to dealth, with volume of fire.

 Sasori wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Meh he is easier to kill then a flyrant. Once grounded you can shoot him until he stops twitching. T5 W4 is pretty lame if it wasn't for one important factor...

The model itself, he is tiny, which means you can hide the bastard very easily.

He isn't easier to kill than a Flyrant, unless the Flyrant has IA. Even then, it's quite a toss up.

Just casting invisibility on himself is a 2+ Jink save. That means that you have get past his 2+, then another 3+ to ground him. That's much more than it takes to ground a Flyrant. Once they are both the ground, they can both be shot to dealth, with volume of fire.

Invis only gives you an extra stealth when he has shrouded already, not really worth it...
Also, a hit will automatically force a grounding test, so yeah...

Lots of stuff has easy access to ignores cover so invisibility means nothing.

And all you have to do is hit him to force the ground test, not wound.

Skyrays hit with marker lights on 3+ and force the ground test. Or they buff nearby broadsides with the buffmander and kill him without breaking a sweat.

Every thing you mention is without breaking a sweat but acts varies from talking. Not everything you speak is doable and not so many thing ignore cover as you say. And don't forget same thing happens with most FMCs. So he is great overall. Oh and if you focus so much to kill him, GJ, you still have 4 more FMCs killing your army next round. Oh and the nice part is when be'lakor puppet master you riptide and kills your broadsides. Fun times!

 Makutsu wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Meh he is easier to kill then a flyrant. Once grounded you can shoot him until he stops twitching. T5 W4 is pretty lame if it wasn't for one important factor...

The model itself, he is tiny, which means you can hide the bastard very easily.

He isn't easier to kill than a Flyrant, unless the Flyrant has IA. Even then, it's quite a toss up.

Just casting invisibility on himself is a 2+ Jink save. That means that you have get past his 2+, then another 3+ to ground him. That's much more than it takes to ground a Flyrant. Once they are both the ground, they can both be shot to dealth, with volume of fire.

Invis only gives you an extra stealth when he has shrouded already, not really worth it...
Also, a hit will automatically force a grounding test, so yeah...

Yes, but only one hit per unit. So it takes an average of 3 hits, from three different units to cause a successful grounding test. If you you manuvered properly, landing in any kind of cover will mean that you have a 2+ cover save thanks to invisability, against the oncoming shooting. It's a pretty big deal.

Lots of stuff has easy access to ignores cover so invisibility means nothing.

And all you have to do is hit him to force the ground test, not wound.

Skyrays hit with marker lights on 3+ and force the ground test. Or they buff nearby broadsides with the buffmander and kill him without breaking a sweat.

Invisibility means a lot, just because some weapons have ignore cover, does not mean you can hand wave away invisibility away like that. There are plenty of armies that are VERY light on ignores cover weapons, it is still a huge thing.

plus you get +D3 warp charges when your opponent fails ANY moral check... thats INASNE


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also, PUPPET MASTER

why is no one talking about puppet master? :O

I wouldn't discount hallucination either.. Invis is great but I managed to basically beat orks just by rolling hallucination twice, it's such an unfair power if they can't pass their Deny tests. Infact, most of telepathy is crazy good.

Yeah I would really only use hallucination if I got a couple of extra warp charges, since or else I wouldn't be able to use invisibility.

All this arguing about how he can be killed is useless. Nobody says he is invincible, but when fighting a flying circus you can't be happy if you shoot down one.

Can Be'Lakor cast Terrify Infinitely if he keeps hitting? Because the target must immediately take a moral check, and if they fail, he gets D3 warp charges...just a use for him to keep in mind. Since terrify ignores fearless and other similar rules, he has the potential to send an entire army of fearless squads running off the board...hehehehehHEHEHEHEHE

You can only cast a power once per turn irrespective of how many warp charges you have. This is why Farseers bother to get both Guide and Prescience instead of just casting one three times.

Also, those D3 warp charges are the next turn, when you generate warp charge, only once per turn. Not the moment the enemy fails a test.

Well you are going to play this guy with another DP and Fatey so you cast endurance (take biomancy for the DP) maybe on Be'Lakor and invisibility on the other DP and Grimoire on Fatey. That is pretty frightening. Also do not discount psychic shriek against hordes or hallucination. and puppet master is very useful against a plethora of targets ( yes the new six possible riptide builds). I have not even considered his weapon in this or the fact he is shrouded. He is a toolbox of goodies. At 350 points - yes, I want him. Taking the cultists is no brainer anyway. I am going to need the extra troop coming from reserves.

He is certainly better than the mace prince.

He isn't as killy as the mace prince. Being a daemon of tzeentch makes him pretty survivable too.

Mace princes are for flying circuses (cheaper, more toys for the other princes) and belakor is for lists that have a 20 man flesh hound or seeker unit that benefits from invisibility.

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:
He isn't as killy as the mace prince. Being a daemon of tzeentch makes him pretty survivable too.

Mace princes are for flying circuses (cheaper, more toys for the other princes) and belakor is for lists that have a 20 man flesh hound or seeker unit that benefits from invisibility.

Bingo

Belakor is better used as a hidden buff monster, weakening units before a charge. Remember guys Belakor is TINY a rhino can easily block his LOS.

He is as survivable as a mace prince -- and yes I can see him used to boost hounds etc. Will be interesting to see how many uses he has. As for killy - against MCs he is better than mace prince - against troops maybe not - against vehicles also better.

I feel like he can be whatever he wants to be, he's a pretty good unit for any army.

I don't believe the number of powers you can cast per turn is ACTUALLY limited by your mastery level.

In the section where it's talking about that, I think the insinuation is that you only get a charge per mastery level, so the less masterful you are, the fewer powers you're going to be able to cast by default.

The phrase "the number of powers you can cast depends on your mastery level" is vague. If that was the case, then despite some being 2 charges, I could always cast 3 powers. That's not the case, because the actual mechanic for casting involves spending warp charges. The reverse is also untrue - that being level 3 means you can ONLY cast 3 spells. It's just that for most cases, that WILL be all you can cast, when you have 3 charges.

If Be'lakor gets more, he can cast more. Only two can be shooting powers, though, and only one if he vector strikes.

One major advantage is that with a Be'Lakor list you really don't need to pay for power armor/iron hide on any of your other DPs. He can always invis one, another can get grimoired, and there is always the chance with greater rewards.
Plus not having an armor save prevents you from becoming mincemeat if you are grounded near grav guns.

How do you guys play the warp D3? Does it have to be a failed morale test on my enemy's last turn to get them at the start of my next game turn? They are generated at the start of a game turn right. And previous turn is always player turn, right? So it is very hard to pull that off. Might stop a squad assaulting you but meh.

Is anyone else fairly unimpressed with him?

He sounds really exciting but when you really boil down his defensive stats his price point sounds more and more unreasonable. Imagine wave serpents shooting at him.

Full telepathy is certainly interesting, guaranteed psychic powers are always worth looking at, invisibility is the biggest interest to me so far.

Time will tell but I'm not convinced he'll see tournament play.

People have said it before but he's very fieldable to anyone allied with CSM, 50 point cultists squads fill the troop req nicely. Very interesting model none the less, and I'd love to see more like this come out.... buff khorne berserkers PLEASE.

He is another 4++ option. Telepathy and his other bonuses are all gravy. He also comes with eternal warrior, and that is what most players roll on biomancy to try and get iron arm, but Be' Lakor has that solved. I wasn't sold at first, but once I reviewed him I find him to be amazing and ordered the model immediately.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
He is another 4++ option. Telepathy and his other bonuses are all gravy. He also comes with eternal warrior, and that is what most players roll on biomancy to try and get iron arm, but Be' Lakor has that solved. I wasn't sold at first, but once I reviewed him I find him to be amazing and ordered the model immediately.

It's also worth noting how small his model is. Sure without the armor save he's vulnerable to small arms. If you can even see him. He's extremely easy to hide.

He's pretty awesome, primarily for guaranteed Invisi.

I think people are just scratching the surface of what this means.

20 Slaanesh Possessed with an Icon and Invisi?

Or a Crusher star with Invisi?

Guaranteed Invisi makes any of those extra large units worth taking a second look at.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
He's pretty awesome, primarily for guaranteed Invisi.

I think people are just scratching the surface of what this means.

20 Slaanesh Possessed with an Icon and Invisi?

Or a Crusher star with Invisi?

Guaranteed Invisi makes any of those extra large units worth taking a second look at.

Yeah, factoring in the guaranteed invisibility is huge now, for list building purposes. You could "Kinda" plan and hope for it before, but now that is guaranteed, I am expecting a lot of nasty lists to come out of the woodworks.

Unfortunately, guaranteeing Invisibility isn't the rock-hard life saver today that it might have been six months ago. Marker lights, serpent shields, thunderfire cannons, Tigurius/farseers/heralds of Tzeentch rolling three times on Divination to get Perfect Timing...These are all VERY common things in the game these days, and they all add up to your guys dying just as easily as they would have anyway. If your enemy can't ignore cover, that Invis is huge, but few enemies will actually be stymied by this for long.

Here's an odd question for everyone.

Can Be'Lakor roll on any of the other Psychic Discipline charts?

As it states, it simply says

"Psyker:

• Be’lakor knows all of the powers from the Telepathy discipline."

Doesn't say he Generates ALL his powers from the Telepathy tree... Simply saying he knows all of these abilities...

Can a player running him also roll 3 times on a different tree?

He has no other disciplines listed. So no.

 tomjoad wrote:
Unfortunately, guaranteeing Invisibility isn't the rock-hard life saver today that it might have been six months ago. Marker lights, serpent shields, thunderfire cannons, Tigurius/farseers/heralds of Tzeentch rolling three times on Divination to get Perfect Timing...These are all VERY common things in the game these days, and they all add up to your guys dying just as easily as they would have anyway. If your enemy can't ignore cover, that Invis is huge, but few enemies will actually be stymied by this for long.

While cover ignoring mechanics certainly exist, they don't do so without cost. Also, they generally don't do so with out some penalty to AP. Cover ignoring and low AP aren't a particularly common combination. When you have something in your resiliency profile for even that, you can still design a unit that mitigates the vast majority of firepower thrown out at it.

Think of Possessed with an Icon of Vengeance, for instance. They still have a 3+ and FNP against Serpent Shields and Missletides, and still have FNP and a 5++ against Helldrakes. The Invisi really comes into play against everything else that might be thrown at them, but even in the worst case scenarios, they still generally have something. Large, high strength, low AP, cover ignoring blasts, like the Riptide, are still only killing 2 or 3 bases per direct hit (assuming you are properly spread out). Considering the amount of points that go into pulling off that combination (300+), that's really a pretty inefficient result.

 ansacs wrote:
He has no other disciplines listed. So no.

neither do CSM sorcerers or daemon princes. They can roll on the disciplines listed in the codex.

I have to say that when playing Be'Lakor you should have units to deal with the most common of the cover ignoring units. So Daemons/CSM for instance would field a few screamer squads and at least 2 or 3 DPs to take out serpents and tie up and destroy marker lights. Invisibility is good when cast on another DP - in fact it is very good so the combinations are quite flexible. Also the other telepathy powers are very good - you choose th one you want when you need it and that is the key to Be'Lakor.

 Exergy wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
He has no other disciplines listed. So no.

neither do CSM sorcerers or daemon princes. They can roll on the disciplines listed in the codex.

So what's your verdict?

Exergy wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
He has no other disciplines listed. So no.

neither do CSM sorcerers or daemon princes. They can roll on the disciplines listed in the codex.

What codex are you looking at? Because pg 33 gives CSM Daemon princes their list of disciplines and pg 32 is the sorcerer's list. BTW they do NOT get to roll on whatever disciplines they want to it is a specific list.

 ansacs wrote:

Exergy wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
He has no other disciplines listed. So no.

neither do CSM sorcerers or daemon princes. They can roll on the disciplines listed in the codex.

What codex are you looking at? Because pg 33 gives CSM Daemon princes their list of disciplines and pg 32 is the sorcerer's list. BTW they do NOT get to roll on whatever disciplines they want to it is a specific list.

I know in the BRB models that CAN roll on the Psyker disciplines, are told which tree to roll on, but I haven't seen a model simply state that they "Know all the Spells" from a discipline without actually stating "Generate"

That's the thing. It is a moot point as if you don't have a discipline given in the unit entry then you cannot generate powers for it. So the Be'Lakor can choose from 2 options (1) not to generate powers from any discipline or (2) know all the telepathy powers (you could roll but you would have to reroll ad infinitum)

Wanna see Be'Lakor in action.


Check him out against a Revenant Titan in Frontline Gaming's video battle report. It's one crazy report with Escalation rules, dataslates, formations and all that....


Welcome to the new 6th Edition! Escalation Battle Report

 jy2 wrote:
Wanna see Be'Lakor in action.


Check him out against a Revenant Titan in Frontline Gaming's video battle report. It's one crazy report with Escalation rules, dataslates, formations and all that....


Welcome to the new 6th Edition! Escalation Battle Report

That was pretty hilarious.

Puppet master confirmed for best power ever, haha.

He seems neat but I think Im going to stick with my normal DPs in competitive play. For fun games Im gonna stick him on the table because he seems hilarious.

No Greater/Lesser Rewards and no Biomancy kind of hurt the playstyle i like with my DPs. Plus i dont want him as an HQ. Maybe as a CSM ally to my daemons in some of our bigger 3k games.

zteknon wrote:
He seems neat but I think Im going to stick with my normal DPs in competitive play. For fun games Im gonna stick him on the table because he seems hilarious.

No Greater/Lesser Rewards and no Biomancy kind of hurt the playstyle i like with my DPs. Plus i dont want him as an HQ. Maybe as a CSM ally to my daemons in some of our bigger 3k games.

Yes but what lesser/greater rewards are you rolling to try and get that Be' Lakor doesn't basically start with. Not having access to Biomancy is the biggest drawback but always having EW more than makes up for it as you generally are hoping to get iron arm as many times as possible and that is so you DP don't get doubled out.

Theres various combos of Greater/Lesser that I like having. Reroll invuls, armorbane, +1 wound ect. Theyre nice but i dont really depend on them i just like them alot. And yes Iron Arm is awesome. I also like endurance and Warp Speed. Really helps me chew threw units faster when i need to.

Im just mostly set on using him as an allied HQ to get some CSM or various types on the table. I like his model and will probably be buying it anyway.

Be'lakor does have fleshbane and armourbane. What I also like about him is that you can combo-charge him and another daemon unit and don't have to worry about him dying to Daemonic Instability should you lose combat. Also, he is immune to some of the bad effects on the Warpstorm table, namely the ones where daemons have to take Daemonic Instability checks on 3D6.

Also, you can give him a 2++ with the Grimoire. With other DP's, you'd also need Forewarning as well.

Iron Arm is not as necessary to him as it is to other DP's. Most people want IA for EW. He's already got EW.

Im excited for Be'Lakor, my brother just got one the other day and i was reading his rules thinking, "oh damn, here is a prince that makes me want to play chaos again." I think he is actually a well thought out unit, not to cheese tastic and not so bad no one wants to use him in competitive games. Sure he doesnt have access to Biomancy, but come on, all the telepathy powers, extra warp charges, constant shroud, 4++, armorbane/fleshbane, and to top it off EW. Only major downside to me is i cant give him artifacts, other than that everything he does, he does well and at a balanced pace.

I used him last night in two games. I used him in more of a support role in game one but lost him in a duel with another Belakor, and yes we both had invisibility. He Just rolled better.

In my other game, vs nids, he killed all three of my heavy support daemon princes, leaving just my GUO and Belakor. Wow did he come through. I would stay a few inches away from shadow in the warp bubble, cast invisibility, glide 12" towards a unit and then charge, and even if I rolled snake eyes, I made sure to be within 2". He would charge in and almost kill a tervigon, the tervigon would either whiff or I would save the one hit that got through. Then on his turn, I'd kill his tervigon, the termagants nearby would die, consolidate closer to another tervigon. Then on my turn, do the exact same thing. Time ran out, but I found my rhythm for Belakor that game.

Belakor, abbadon, and fateweaver may be my next hqs the next time I write another list. Or at least fateweaver and Belakor.

I tried Be'lakor in a small comp on the weekend and he unfortunately didn't perform that well. A combination of bad rolls on psychic tests and armour saves saw him die by turn 3 at the latest in all 3 games.

I think internet hype also killed him, everyone saw him and said "OH its that guy!", which then was followed by mass concentrated fire to bring him down.


I think using him in a flying circus just makes that list all the more powerful and its handy to be able to throw invis on other hard hitting units you want to survive a bit longer for other more varied lists.


The only issue I have is that he is a large chunk of pts that can still die quite easily, EW is cool, but I find str 5/6 weapons tend to be the ones bringing him down anyway.

He is a great addition yes, he still needs careful usage. He may be better targeted with grimoire and use his invisibility to FW. Still if he is played carefully I think he wrecks havoc to anything. Puppet master is powerful, you can use terrify to gain more warp charges, and hallucinate is extremely powerful. If you manage to cast endurance on him.. Then ye ok. He is super extra tough.

wow, check out the allied formations thing. Utter insanity...

darkcloak wrote:
wow, check out the allied formations thing. Utter insanity...

What do you mean? Sorry I m drinking beers while trying to read for my favorite hobby..

darkcloak wrote:
wow, check out the allied formations thing. Utter insanity...

I thought that at first too, but if you read through his rules carefully, you'll notice he's actually not an Allied formation, they just decided to include the rules for them in each data slate.

 greg0985 wrote:

darkcloak wrote:
wow, check out the allied formations thing. Utter insanity...

I thought that at first too, but if you read through his rules carefully, you'll notice he's actually not an Allied formation, they just decided to include the rules for them in each data slate.

I know this is the Be'Lakor thread, but it's possible he's referring to the Tau formation, which is utter insanity.

It really sucks that I put in an order the day after Be'Lakor's Dataslate was released and the model has been on back order since then. Come on GW you are the ones's whose business is selling models, and you give people a reason to buy a model but don't have them to sell?

 tomjoad wrote:
Unfortunately, guaranteeing Invisibility isn't the rock-hard life saver today that it might have been six months ago. Marker lights, serpent shields, thunderfire cannons, Tigurius/farseers/heralds of Tzeentch rolling three times on Divination to get Perfect Timing...These are all VERY common things in the game these days, and they all add up to your guys dying just as easily as they would have anyway. If your enemy can't ignore cover, that Invis is huge, but few enemies will actually be stymied by this for long.

What has Invisibility got to do with Ignores Cover?

dubhgilla wrote:

 tomjoad wrote:
Unfortunately, guaranteeing Invisibility isn't the rock-hard life saver today that it might have been six months ago. Marker lights, serpent shields, thunderfire cannons, Tigurius/farseers/heralds of Tzeentch rolling three times on Divination to get Perfect Timing...These are all VERY common things in the game these days, and they all add up to your guys dying just as easily as they would have anyway. If your enemy can't ignore cover, that Invis is huge, but few enemies will actually be stymied by this for long.

What has Invisibility got to do with Ignores Cover?

A lot when you go back in time to a 6th edition thread.

Dontcha love it when a new user necros a thread and then disappears?

Even more funny when their wrong