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 NecronLord3 wrote:
He is another 4++ option. Telepathy and his other bonuses are all gravy. He also comes with eternal warrior, and that is what most players roll on biomancy to try and get iron arm, but Be' Lakor has that solved. I wasn't sold at first, but once I reviewed him I find him to be amazing and ordered the model immediately.

It's also worth noting how small his model is. Sure without the armor save he's vulnerable to small arms. If you can even see him. He's extremely easy to hide.

He's pretty awesome, primarily for guaranteed Invisi.

I think people are just scratching the surface of what this means.

20 Slaanesh Possessed with an Icon and Invisi?

Or a Crusher star with Invisi?

Guaranteed Invisi makes any of those extra large units worth taking a second look at.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
He's pretty awesome, primarily for guaranteed Invisi.

I think people are just scratching the surface of what this means.

20 Slaanesh Possessed with an Icon and Invisi?

Or a Crusher star with Invisi?

Guaranteed Invisi makes any of those extra large units worth taking a second look at.

Yeah, factoring in the guaranteed invisibility is huge now, for list building purposes. You could "Kinda" plan and hope for it before, but now that is guaranteed, I am expecting a lot of nasty lists to come out of the woodworks.

Unfortunately, guaranteeing Invisibility isn't the rock-hard life saver today that it might have been six months ago. Marker lights, serpent shields, thunderfire cannons, Tigurius/farseers/heralds of Tzeentch rolling three times on Divination to get Perfect Timing...These are all VERY common things in the game these days, and they all add up to your guys dying just as easily as they would have anyway. If your enemy can't ignore cover, that Invis is huge, but few enemies will actually be stymied by this for long.

Here's an odd question for everyone.

Can Be'Lakor roll on any of the other Psychic Discipline charts?

As it states, it simply says

"Psyker:

• Be’lakor knows all of the powers from the Telepathy discipline."

Doesn't say he Generates ALL his powers from the Telepathy tree... Simply saying he knows all of these abilities...

Can a player running him also roll 3 times on a different tree?

He has no other disciplines listed. So no.

 tomjoad wrote:
Unfortunately, guaranteeing Invisibility isn't the rock-hard life saver today that it might have been six months ago. Marker lights, serpent shields, thunderfire cannons, Tigurius/farseers/heralds of Tzeentch rolling three times on Divination to get Perfect Timing...These are all VERY common things in the game these days, and they all add up to your guys dying just as easily as they would have anyway. If your enemy can't ignore cover, that Invis is huge, but few enemies will actually be stymied by this for long.

While cover ignoring mechanics certainly exist, they don't do so without cost. Also, they generally don't do so with out some penalty to AP. Cover ignoring and low AP aren't a particularly common combination. When you have something in your resiliency profile for even that, you can still design a unit that mitigates the vast majority of firepower thrown out at it.

Think of Possessed with an Icon of Vengeance, for instance. They still have a 3+ and FNP against Serpent Shields and Missletides, and still have FNP and a 5++ against Helldrakes. The Invisi really comes into play against everything else that might be thrown at them, but even in the worst case scenarios, they still generally have something. Large, high strength, low AP, cover ignoring blasts, like the Riptide, are still only killing 2 or 3 bases per direct hit (assuming you are properly spread out). Considering the amount of points that go into pulling off that combination (300+), that's really a pretty inefficient result.

 ansacs wrote:
He has no other disciplines listed. So no.

neither do CSM sorcerers or daemon princes. They can roll on the disciplines listed in the codex.

I have to say that when playing Be'Lakor you should have units to deal with the most common of the cover ignoring units. So Daemons/CSM for instance would field a few screamer squads and at least 2 or 3 DPs to take out serpents and tie up and destroy marker lights. Invisibility is good when cast on another DP - in fact it is very good so the combinations are quite flexible. Also the other telepathy powers are very good - you choose th one you want when you need it and that is the key to Be'Lakor.

 Exergy wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
He has no other disciplines listed. So no.

neither do CSM sorcerers or daemon princes. They can roll on the disciplines listed in the codex.

So what's your verdict?

Exergy wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
He has no other disciplines listed. So no.

neither do CSM sorcerers or daemon princes. They can roll on the disciplines listed in the codex.

What codex are you looking at? Because pg 33 gives CSM Daemon princes their list of disciplines and pg 32 is the sorcerer's list. BTW they do NOT get to roll on whatever disciplines they want to it is a specific list.

 ansacs wrote:

Exergy wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
He has no other disciplines listed. So no.

neither do CSM sorcerers or daemon princes. They can roll on the disciplines listed in the codex.

What codex are you looking at? Because pg 33 gives CSM Daemon princes their list of disciplines and pg 32 is the sorcerer's list. BTW they do NOT get to roll on whatever disciplines they want to it is a specific list.

I know in the BRB models that CAN roll on the Psyker disciplines, are told which tree to roll on, but I haven't seen a model simply state that they "Know all the Spells" from a discipline without actually stating "Generate"

That's the thing. It is a moot point as if you don't have a discipline given in the unit entry then you cannot generate powers for it. So the Be'Lakor can choose from 2 options (1) not to generate powers from any discipline or (2) know all the telepathy powers (you could roll but you would have to reroll ad infinitum)

Wanna see Be'Lakor in action.


Check him out against a Revenant Titan in Frontline Gaming's video battle report. It's one crazy report with Escalation rules, dataslates, formations and all that....


Welcome to the new 6th Edition! Escalation Battle Report

 jy2 wrote:
Wanna see Be'Lakor in action.


Check him out against a Revenant Titan in Frontline Gaming's video battle report. It's one crazy report with Escalation rules, dataslates, formations and all that....


Welcome to the new 6th Edition! Escalation Battle Report

That was pretty hilarious.

Puppet master confirmed for best power ever, haha.

He seems neat but I think Im going to stick with my normal DPs in competitive play. For fun games Im gonna stick him on the table because he seems hilarious.

No Greater/Lesser Rewards and no Biomancy kind of hurt the playstyle i like with my DPs. Plus i dont want him as an HQ. Maybe as a CSM ally to my daemons in some of our bigger 3k games.

zteknon wrote:
He seems neat but I think Im going to stick with my normal DPs in competitive play. For fun games Im gonna stick him on the table because he seems hilarious.

No Greater/Lesser Rewards and no Biomancy kind of hurt the playstyle i like with my DPs. Plus i dont want him as an HQ. Maybe as a CSM ally to my daemons in some of our bigger 3k games.

Yes but what lesser/greater rewards are you rolling to try and get that Be' Lakor doesn't basically start with. Not having access to Biomancy is the biggest drawback but always having EW more than makes up for it as you generally are hoping to get iron arm as many times as possible and that is so you DP don't get doubled out.

Theres various combos of Greater/Lesser that I like having. Reroll invuls, armorbane, +1 wound ect. Theyre nice but i dont really depend on them i just like them alot. And yes Iron Arm is awesome. I also like endurance and Warp Speed. Really helps me chew threw units faster when i need to.

Im just mostly set on using him as an allied HQ to get some CSM or various types on the table. I like his model and will probably be buying it anyway.

Be'lakor does have fleshbane and armourbane. What I also like about him is that you can combo-charge him and another daemon unit and don't have to worry about him dying to Daemonic Instability should you lose combat. Also, he is immune to some of the bad effects on the Warpstorm table, namely the ones where daemons have to take Daemonic Instability checks on 3D6.

Also, you can give him a 2++ with the Grimoire. With other DP's, you'd also need Forewarning as well.

Iron Arm is not as necessary to him as it is to other DP's. Most people want IA for EW. He's already got EW.

Im excited for Be'Lakor, my brother just got one the other day and i was reading his rules thinking, "oh damn, here is a prince that makes me want to play chaos again." I think he is actually a well thought out unit, not to cheese tastic and not so bad no one wants to use him in competitive games. Sure he doesnt have access to Biomancy, but come on, all the telepathy powers, extra warp charges, constant shroud, 4++, armorbane/fleshbane, and to top it off EW. Only major downside to me is i cant give him artifacts, other than that everything he does, he does well and at a balanced pace.

I used him last night in two games. I used him in more of a support role in game one but lost him in a duel with another Belakor, and yes we both had invisibility. He Just rolled better.

In my other game, vs nids, he killed all three of my heavy support daemon princes, leaving just my GUO and Belakor. Wow did he come through. I would stay a few inches away from shadow in the warp bubble, cast invisibility, glide 12" towards a unit and then charge, and even if I rolled snake eyes, I made sure to be within 2". He would charge in and almost kill a tervigon, the tervigon would either whiff or I would save the one hit that got through. Then on his turn, I'd kill his tervigon, the termagants nearby would die, consolidate closer to another tervigon. Then on my turn, do the exact same thing. Time ran out, but I found my rhythm for Belakor that game.

Belakor, abbadon, and fateweaver may be my next hqs the next time I write another list. Or at least fateweaver and Belakor.

I tried Be'lakor in a small comp on the weekend and he unfortunately didn't perform that well. A combination of bad rolls on psychic tests and armour saves saw him die by turn 3 at the latest in all 3 games.

I think internet hype also killed him, everyone saw him and said "OH its that guy!", which then was followed by mass concentrated fire to bring him down.


I think using him in a flying circus just makes that list all the more powerful and its handy to be able to throw invis on other hard hitting units you want to survive a bit longer for other more varied lists.


The only issue I have is that he is a large chunk of pts that can still die quite easily, EW is cool, but I find str 5/6 weapons tend to be the ones bringing him down anyway.

He is a great addition yes, he still needs careful usage. He may be better targeted with grimoire and use his invisibility to FW. Still if he is played carefully I think he wrecks havoc to anything. Puppet master is powerful, you can use terrify to gain more warp charges, and hallucinate is extremely powerful. If you manage to cast endurance on him.. Then ye ok. He is super extra tough.

wow, check out the allied formations thing. Utter insanity...

darkcloak wrote:
wow, check out the allied formations thing. Utter insanity...

What do you mean? Sorry I m drinking beers while trying to read for my favorite hobby..

darkcloak wrote:
wow, check out the allied formations thing. Utter insanity...

I thought that at first too, but if you read through his rules carefully, you'll notice he's actually not an Allied formation, they just decided to include the rules for them in each data slate.

 greg0985 wrote:

darkcloak wrote:
wow, check out the allied formations thing. Utter insanity...

I thought that at first too, but if you read through his rules carefully, you'll notice he's actually not an Allied formation, they just decided to include the rules for them in each data slate.

I know this is the Be'Lakor thread, but it's possible he's referring to the Tau formation, which is utter insanity.

It really sucks that I put in an order the day after Be'Lakor's Dataslate was released and the model has been on back order since then. Come on GW you are the ones's whose business is selling models, and you give people a reason to buy a model but don't have them to sell?

 tomjoad wrote:
Unfortunately, guaranteeing Invisibility isn't the rock-hard life saver today that it might have been six months ago. Marker lights, serpent shields, thunderfire cannons, Tigurius/farseers/heralds of Tzeentch rolling three times on Divination to get Perfect Timing...These are all VERY common things in the game these days, and they all add up to your guys dying just as easily as they would have anyway. If your enemy can't ignore cover, that Invis is huge, but few enemies will actually be stymied by this for long.

What has Invisibility got to do with Ignores Cover?

dubhgilla wrote:

 tomjoad wrote:
Unfortunately, guaranteeing Invisibility isn't the rock-hard life saver today that it might have been six months ago. Marker lights, serpent shields, thunderfire cannons, Tigurius/farseers/heralds of Tzeentch rolling three times on Divination to get Perfect Timing...These are all VERY common things in the game these days, and they all add up to your guys dying just as easily as they would have anyway. If your enemy can't ignore cover, that Invis is huge, but few enemies will actually be stymied by this for long.

What has Invisibility got to do with Ignores Cover?

A lot when you go back in time to a 6th edition thread.