is he the only primarch, that realistically can come back to rejoin the imperium...

Pretty much. But don't forget about Khan leading a slave rebellion in Commorragh.

Well Leman Russ has never officially "died". For all we know Khorne has been having fun throwing daemons at him for 10,000 years.

Before somebody tries to say Dorn might be alive... he is definitely dead.

I'd think they'd be able to bring Guilliman out of stasis and actually cure him at some point too...But that one never made too much sense to me.

Vulkan and Corax were never confirmed dead so theres that.

I heard some where that the necrons had Vulcan in stasis. Because reasons.

Pretty much EVERY primarch can come back besides Sanguinus. Even Ferrus Manus in the official fluff has legends that say he'll come back (how? Who knows. My own speculation is that Trazyn has him and if he ever does come back, necrodermis will be involved. Course, this might just be a case of typical Iron Hands stubborness and refusal to believe he's dead just because his body was never recovered, even though we know Horus got his head from Fulgrim)

The Lion is definately the most blatant, but all of the others (besides Ferrus, who has legends of coming back but doesn't have as much foreshadowing as the rest unless you assume that large man Trazyn has is him) are pretty much set up, too.

Leman Russ is rumoured to have been spotted during the Thirteenth Black Crusade leading the Thirteenth company.

Legend says Vulkan will come back when his lost artifacts are recovered (it's revealed in the book Unremembered Empire that he himself IS one of the lost artifacts)

Some believe Khan is still alive in the webway.

Dom's body was never found (a retcon).

Legend states Gulliman is healing.


Note that Sanguins NOT coming back is officially acknowledged too (well, if you take BL to be cannon). The blood angels bring up that he's the only primarch to not have any legends of coming back, which is why they suspect something is wrong when he DOES come back (it's not him). Of course, there's still the Sanguinor, though...

TiamatRoar wrote:
Pretty much EVERY primarch can come back besides Sanguinus. Even Ferrus Manus in the official fluff has legends that say he'll come back (how? Who knows. My own speculation is that Trazyn has him and if he ever does come back, necrodermis will be involved. Course, this might just be a case of typical Iron Hands stubborness and refusal to believe he's dead just because his body was never recovered, even though we know Horus got his head from Fulgrim)

The Lion is definately the most blatant, but all of the others (besides Ferrus, who has legends of coming back but doesn't have as much foreshadowing as the rest unless you assume that large man Trazyn has is him) are pretty much set up, too.

Leman Russ is rumoured to have been spotted during the Thirteenth Black Crusade leading the Thirteenth company.

Legend says Vulkan will come back when his lost artifacts are recovered (it's revealed in the book Unremembered Empire that he himself IS one of the lost artifacts)

Some believe Khan is still alive in the webway.

Dom's body was never found (a retcon).

Legend states Gulliman is healing.


Note that Sanguins NOT coming back is officially acknowledged too (well, if you take BL to be cannon). The blood angels bring up that he's the only primarch to not have any legends of coming back, which is why they suspect something is wrong when he DOES come back (it's not him). Of course, there's still the Sanguinor, though...

too bad GW will never expand the lore pass the 13th crusade

Maybe one day someone at GW will decide that making modern day primarch models could be good $$$ (whether that GW person is right or not is a separate question)

As of the moment though, I imagine they won't because Forge World has its own primarch models to release first. It'd be silly of GW to bring back the primarchs in modern times when they're still being brought to the tabletop for the Heresy. That'd be like, competing with yourself.

if sanguinius came back it would cease to be grimdark, as he would beat the shet outa the ones needing it and fix things. (the guy was a damned angel in the fluff, literally and metaphorically)

Russ is in the warp. And what is really scary is due to how the warp twists and spins time he could reemerge from the warp his younger self back when he should have been at the peak of his power. No rust to knock off.

Heck, he could show up with his army that he took into the warp with him. That would make somebody wet their pants I'm sure.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Russ is in the warp. And what is really scary is due to how the warp twists and spins time he could reemerge from the warp his younger self back when he should have been at the peak of his power. No rust to knock off.

Heck, he could show up with his army that he took into the warp with him. That would make somebody wet their pants I'm sure.

He kinda actually did that. The Thirteenth Company was spotted in the Thirteenth Black Crusade kicking ass and taking names and were led by a really really large man or something like that.

Granted, the Thirteenth Black Crusade may have been retconned. *shrug*

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:
Russ is in the warp. And what is really scary is due to how the warp twists and spins time he could reemerge from the warp his younger self back when he should have been at the peak of his power. No rust to knock off.

Heck, he could show up with his army that he took into the warp with him. That would make somebody wet their pants I'm sure.

He kinda actually did that. The Thirteenth Company was spotted in the Thirteenth Black Crusade kicking ass and taking names and were led by a really really large man or something like that.

Granted, the Thirteenth Black Crusade may have been retconned. *shrug*

RUSS IS BACK

The lion might be a traitor, a fallen. Who knows. But even if we knew it would be a secret. Oh btw I think that the lion is the only one almost fully healed and ready to return. The watchers are watching him so he is watched by the watchers in the dark.. I meant in the rock!

But who is watching the watchers?

Mellow wrote:
But who is watching the watchers?

Me.

But yeah, possible returns for

Khan
Vulkan
Corax
Russ
Guilliman (possible - he ain't quite dead yet)
The Lion

Sanguinius has karked it (bar that fluff abomination the sanguinor)
Dorn is dead
Manus is very dead.

I'd love to see demon primarchs brought out for escalation though.

Most Daemon Primarchs are locked up in their fortresses, but Perturabo and especially Angron have been quite active during the post-Heresy period of time. Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade may allow all of them to return to the Materium to wreak some havoc

Regarding the Loyalists, Lion is the most probable to return, IIRC he's virtually waiting for the Emprah's call. Regarding the others... some might return, but those who are dead (or nigh-dead) should remain so, IMHO. Though, as much as I hate to admit it, I probably wouldn't mind Rawboot Girlyman getting back into action, just to even the odds.

Isn't there also quite the chance that Vulkan too? since he is essentially immortal, even moreso than his brothers

I think Vulkan is locked in some sort of coffin, and his whereabouts are unknown. Should the Salamanders find him, then yes, he'd most likely be able to aid the Imperium.

Provided he's not absolutely flying rodent gak crazy after being locked in a coffin for 10,000 years...

He would be in a state of dead if he were locked away like that.

Presumably he would regenerate once his body comes in contact with life sustaining conditions. (like air)

He was insane before he went into the coffin. If he gets out of the coffin, we've no idea whether he'd be sane or not.

 SarisKhan wrote:
Most Daemon Primarchs are locked up in their fortresses, but Perturabo and especially Angron have been quite active during the post-Heresy period of time.

All the Daemon Primarchs besides Lorgar have been given fluff pieces showing they are still active. They apparently spend most of their time more concerned with the Great Game but still do things in the Material World from time to time. The only one who hasn't been given a significant fluff piece showing him doing something in the Material World post-heresy is Lorgar (although even he at least taught Abaddon some Daemoncy for the thirteenth Black Crusade allegedly? I heard someone say that was in the Black Legion supplement but my memory could be off)

TiamatRoar wrote:
(...) Lorgar (although even he at least taught Abaddon some Daemoncy for the thirteenth Black Crusade allegedly? I heard someone say that was in the Black Legion supplement but my memory could be off)

That's correct, Lorgar taught Abaddon some dark arts. Actually, Abby has "recently" contacted all Daemon Primarchs in successful attempts to receive some favours from them, though Magnus refused a personal audience (Ahriman acted in his place). Alpharius wasn't amongst them, though, as he's been indirectly grouped with Konrad Curze as the Primarchs who "were no more" (pp. 51).

I would like to think that the Loyalist Primarchs all come back at the same time, see what the Imperium has become and join Chaos.

The Lion could come back that is for sure. But whether he is loyalist or not remains to be seen...

Also, others like Russ, Corax and Vulkan could also very well come back. The only ones I don't see coming back are Ferrus, Sanguinius, Dorn and Guilliman, as they are either dead or mortally wounded.

If only they hadn't retconned Fulgrim to just be evil instead of just possessed.

Why not clone The Emperor (apart from it being heresy)? On topic, though, none of them have a realistic possibility of coming back because they must face the greatest threat the galaxy - not just the Imperium of Man - has ever known: GW's inability to advance the plot.

I'm not saying that advancing the plot is necessary or indeed desirable, but just that it probably won't happen. In-universe, though, Vulkan, Russ, Khan and Lion-O seem to be it, with Roboute Guilliman a vague possibility.

EDIT: Hold on a second. If the Emperor is a Perpetual (the fluff of which I completely despise, but I digress), surely The Golden Throne would not be necessary?

I think it's Elf style immortality, immortal until stabbed or poisoned or something, Space Marine with extended life basically

As much as I'd like to agree, it isn't. Perpetuals are described as being able to regenerate, Wolverine-style, from anything. We're talking vaporisation. The only known way to kill one is to use a special item called a Fulgurite, apparently.

So, according to the stupid fluff of Perpetuals, The Emperor should not require the Golden Throne at all, and should have instantly regenerated moments after Horus wounded him.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
As much as I'd like to agree, it isn't. Perpetuals are described as being able to regenerate, Wolverine-style, from anything. We're talking vaporisation. The only known way to kill one is to use a special item called a Fulgurite, apparently.

So, according to the stupid fluff of Perpetuals, The Emperor should not require the Golden Throne at all, and should have instantly regenerated moments after Horus wounded him.

And if memory serves me, isn't it kinda left mysterious as though a certain Perpetual that got killed might return from death again if the items are collected or something? (I am very unsure about this)

I don't know about that, just that the Salamanders believe (allegedly because he told them) that Vulkan will return once they recover the remaining four of his nine artefacts. Obviously he took after his father, not bothering to give specifics. However, I think "return" means in the literal sense - as in he will come back to Nocturne from his secret holiday home.

Unless you mean "A Perpetual killed by Fulgurite can be resurrected by completing an Easter Egg hunt", which is entirely possible. However, The Emperor was most definitely not slain by Fulgurite.

I
Hate
Perpetuals

On topic: I hate perpetuals. I think Vulcan can come back at any time. I hope he doesn´t.

I wouldn't be surprised if the background would offer "hooks" to bring back anyone, if you really want to go that route. Some options may seem somewhat more likely than others, either because of some legend or myth, or because a final conclusion was left (intentionally?) open to interpretation.

40k fluff is malleable - a lot depends on preference and what book exactly you're looking at. Case in point, the HH novels and their "Perpetual" idea, whereas the rulebook flat out states the Primarchs were not immortal. Pick what you prefer.

That being said .. such comebacks would likely have considerable effect on the very spirit and atmosphere of the setting, so ...

 PredaKhaine wrote:

Mellow wrote:
But who is watching the watchers?

Me.

But yeah, possible returns for

Khan
Vulkan
Corax
Russ
Guilliman (possible - he ain't quite dead yet)
The Lion

Sanguinius has karked it (bar that fluff abomination the sanguinor)
Dorn is dead
Manus is very dead.

I'd love to see demon primarchs brought out for escalation though.

This, but Dorn may not be dead, so he is another possible return, (retconned)

Also, on a different note, stop bashing my Sanguinor, just cuz he rapes sht with hard nipples does not mean he is not cool.

DORN! He's just missing a hand!

Anyone think they could make a robotic head for Ferrus?

sanguinius is back already (cue sanguinor bashing) He just doesn't want people to know/ doesn't remember. (he is sorta like drago!... maybe)

And he must thus randomly bless the last man he shagged in an attempt to remember

 raiden wrote:

Also, on a different note, stop bashing my Sanguinor, just cuz he rapes sht with hard nipples does not mean he is not cool.

He wears sandals. These are opposite to 'cool'.
I'll stop hating the Sanguinor when he has the good grace to stop existing.

He's more pants than Mr Pants, overall winner of the 'I've just won most Pants' Pants category at the international 'I've got more pants than you' convention. Which he won. In the middle of pants week.

 PredaKhaine wrote:

 raiden wrote:

Also, on a different note, stop bashing my Sanguinor, just cuz he rapes sht with hard nipples does not mean he is not cool.

He wears sandals. These are opposite to 'cool'.
I'll stop hating the Sanguinor when he has the good grace to stop existing.

He's more pants than Mr Pants, overall winner of the Pants trophy at the international 'I've got more pants than you' convention. In the middle of pants week.

cept drago, man has more pants than Mr. Pants dads dad.

also, the reason I like the sanguinor is that -most- of his fluff is pretty cool imo. (some,.... is a bit weird)

I don't like him from a rules standpoint.
He should give his eternal warrior to Dante. I'd let the Sanguinor join/lead squads then.


Is Dorns death confirmed now or not? Where is the 'just his hand' bit from?

lexi, it was retconned that they never found a body. just some hand that they cannot truly identify.


also, I wish the sanguinor had better rules :(. (also mephiston for that matter, I would be ok with no EW or invuln if only I could get ap2!!!


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imo sanguinor is a dude who, in the fluff single handedly lays your army over his knee and gives em a spanking! lol (TT... no... but then again, its a game)

Where did lexi get it from?

At the moment, we can't even confirm Dorn's hand is dead...

PS:Sanguinor only wins till he realises its all Just as Planned.
Eldrad ftw.

then from the warp spawns 1000 baneblades tactically placed there by creed when he was 15 all as a safeguard against elder trickery!!

Which turns out to be just more eldar trickery...



Does anyone know where lexicanum got the Dorns hand found quote from?

The Marine Codex says "Though Rogal Dorn was lost to the Imperium in the years following the Horus Heresy, his legacy remains amongst the strongest of all of the Primarchs’. Dorn’s final moments were of courage and supreme sacrifice,"

Supreme sacrifice especially makes it sound as if he is dead.

So, from what I gather regarding Rogal Dorn, they retconned the "definitely dead and used as a decoration" to "likely dead/MIA".

Fun fact: "rogal" means "croissant" in Polish. I find this amusing.

 SarisKhan wrote:
So, from what I gather regarding Rogal Dorn, they retconned the "definitely dead and used as a decoration" to "likely dead/MIA".

Yep. The fact that they bothered to do so implies they did it to keep open the possibility of his return, just like the other loyalist primarchs.




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 derke56 wrote:
I would like to think that the Loyalist Primarchs all come back at the same time, see what the Imperium has become and join Chaos.

Rogal Dom was with the Imperium for almost 1,000 years AFTER the Horus Heresy ended. He probably already saw what it fell to yet he was still loyal to it to the end (far as we know). So at the very least, he still would side with the Imperium over Chaos.

Roboute Gulliman is the one who set up the current day Imperium in the first place, so I doubt he'd abandon it after coming back, either.

Russ and Khan were also with the Imperium for a while after the Heresy, although I don't know how far it had fallen by the time they disappeared. Russ and his commanders of the 13th Company from what little we know doesn't seem to have much problem with it in the 13th Black Crusade though (at least, to the point where he saw Chaos as the greater evil that must be defeated)

The Lion won't wake up until the Emperor gives the word. I doubt Emps would tell the Lion to wake up just so the Lion can betray him. ...although he might, in a sort of "the Emperor must die to fully become a god" sort of thing (which Cypher, a Dark Angel, also has rumours of, I believe)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Animus wrote:
The Marine Codex says "Though Rogal Dorn was lost to the Imperium in the years following the Horus Heresy, his legacy remains amongst the strongest of all of the Primarchs’. Dorn’s final moments were of courage and supreme sacrifice,"

Supreme sacrifice especially makes it sound as if he is dead.

He was retconned to have died a "Disney death". They never found his body. He'd still be remembered for his sacrifice in that case.


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 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I don't know about that, just that the Salamanders believe (allegedly because he told them) that Vulkan will return once they recover the remaining four of his nine artefacts. Obviously he took after his father, not bothering to give specifics. However, I think "return" means in the literal sense - as in he will come back to Nocturne from his secret holiday home.

Unless you mean "A Perpetual killed by Fulgurite can be resurrected by completing an Easter Egg hunt", which is entirely possible. However, The Emperor was most definitely not slain by Fulgurite.

Unremembered Empire reveals that Vulkan himself is one of the nine artifacts. So yes, it is probable that he will "return" once they find all nine, mainly because the last one will end up being him himself.

 SarisKhan wrote:
So, from what I gather regarding Rogal Dorn, they retconned the "definitely dead and used as a decoration" to "likely dead/MIA".

Fun fact: "rogal" means "croissant" in Polish. I find this amusing.

Give that man Rogal! he knows how to deal with him!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quick question, Wasn't the Lion sucked into the Warp and simply has completely disappeared? waiting for all the Fallen to die or something?

In likelyhood of return:

The Lion - He is just waiting to be released by the Watchers according to some pre-determined trigger. Some believe it is the Emperor's call that will bring him back, I think it could also be the return of the Lion's sword that Cypher is carrying.

Vulkan - Current fluff supports him being alive quite handily. But still not as sure as The Lion.

Dorn - The retcon to his story made him #3 in my book on 'Most Likely To Return'.

Russ - Because I fear the fan boy factor of Space Wolves being able to revive him.

People NOT on the list.
Guilliman, no way....sorry. Him dead. This proud failure of the Empire deserves to stay dead.

guilliman will survive!! he shall arise from his stasis and lead the IoM out of the darkness!

 raiden wrote:
guilliman will survive!! he shall arise from his stasis and lead the IoM out of the darkness!

Bring it He was beaten once by Fulgrim, and I doubt he would be able to defeat any Daemon Primarch in a duel.

 SarisKhan wrote:

 raiden wrote:
guilliman will survive!! he shall arise from his stasis and lead the IoM out of the darkness!

Bring it He was beaten once by Fulgrim, and I doubt he would be able to defeat any Daemon Primarch in a duel.

And then the Orks will accidentally destroy all of you... or the Tryanids just eat you...

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I don't know about that, just that the Salamanders believe (allegedly because he told them) that Vulkan will return once they recover the remaining four of his nine artefacts. Obviously he took after his father, not bothering to give specifics. However, I think "return" means in the literal sense - as in he will come back to Nocturne from his secret holiday home.

Unless you mean "A Perpetual killed by Fulgurite can be resurrected by completing an Easter Egg hunt", which is entirely possible. However, The Emperor was most definitely not slain by Fulgurite.

Unremembered Empire reveals that Vulkan himself is one of the nine artifacts. So yes, it is probable that he will "return" once they find all nine, mainly because the last one will end up being him himself.

I forgot about that. Brilliant.

Vulkan: When you find me, I shall be found.
Salamanders: *in awe of his wisdom*

Salamanders: But why didn't you just tell us to find that artefact and list their destinations?

Vulkan: Can't a primarch just relax and take a long nap?

Why are these things so important? Furthermore, if they're so important, why did you lose them? Why did you write an intentionally-confusing book about it? Are you testing your Legion's item-hunting skills?

Perhaps Vulkan just got tired of losing the remote control/his keys/his phone, so he's training the Salamanders to become expert treasure hunters.

Vulkan - reigning 40k hide and seek champion.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Why are these things so important? Furthermore, if they're so important, why did you lose them? Why did you write an intentionally-confusing book about it? Are you testing your Legion's item-hunting skills?

Perhaps Vulkan just got tired of losing the remote control/his keys/his phone, so he's training the Salamanders to become expert treasure hunters.

Vulkan has always loved scavenger hunts.

Lets be honest all primarchs have exactly the same chance of coming back which is close to 0 due to GW never moving the plot forward. That said if they did want to bring them back do you think something as small as pre established fluff would stand in their way? If they want to bring someone back who they have clearly stated has died on multiple occasions we all know they will retecon that gak faster than they raise the price of character models.

LightKing wrote:
is he the only primarch, that realistically can come back to rejoin the imperium...

The Lion, Russ, Khan, and Vulkan all have a large likelihood of coming back, and Guilliman's possibly healing. Even Sanguinius may have possibly reincarnated or something of the likes- with that stupid Sanguinator or whatever the he's called that was added to the Blood Angels. And Dorn's MIA, possibly/probably KIA.

And nobody has the slightest clue what's going on with the Alpha Legion.

carlos13th wrote:
Lets be honest all primarchs have exactly the same chance of coming back which is close to 0 due to GW never moving the plot forward. That said if they did want to bring them back do you think something as small as pre established fluff would stand in their way? If they want to bring someone back who they have clearly stated has died on multiple occasions we all know they will retain that gak faster than they raise the price of character models.

Excellent point.

Wyzilla wrote:
And nobody has the slightest clue what's going on with the Alpha Legion.

As an Alpha Legion player, I can confirm with absolute certainty that Alpharius and/or Omegon is definitely either every Legionnaire, one, two, or none of them.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

carlos13th wrote:
Lets be honest all primarchs have exactly the same chance of coming back which is close to 0 due to GW never moving the plot forward. That said if they did want to bring them back do you think something as small as pre established fluff would stand in their way? If they want to bring someone back who they have clearly stated has died on multiple occasions we all know they will retain that gak faster than they raise the price of character models.

Excellent point.

The thing is, from a NARRATIVE standpoint, the pre-established fluff actually SUPPORTS the Primarchs coming back. If Warhammer 40k were a reality instead of a work of fiction, it'd be unlikely that the primarchs would come back without space mojo (not that it wouldn't happen, particularly because Wh40k is a galaxy of space mojo). However, as a work of fiction, the authors have made the narrative very clear that it intends for them to come back. Things like "Some say Gulliman is healing", "they never found Dom's body", etc etc make it very clear the authors want you, the reader, to know that the primarchs coming back is an intended possibility, and the majority of times in fiction, intended possibilities actually happen as the storyline progresses.

Of course, as also pointed out, the storyline is likely not to progress. That said, I do think there's a possibility it will someday, when GW decides they want more $$$ by releasing modern day primarch models (both traitor and loyalist), but like I said before, even if that were to happen, it's far off because they need to finish the Horus Heresy first. The narrative, however, is clearly set up for them (ALL of them for the loyalists, including even Ferrus Manus if in a really particularly handwaved way. Sanguinus being the possible exception since the narrative actually addresses that he isn't supposed to come back, but again, even he has the Sanguinor, although in a way the Sanguinor also supports that he won't come back in a "the Sanguinor is as good as it'll ever get for him" way).

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

carlos13th wrote:
Lets be honest all primarchs have exactly the same chance of coming back which is close to 0 due to GW never moving the plot forward. That said if they did want to bring them back do you think something as small as pre established fluff would stand in their way? If they want to bring someone back who they have clearly stated has died on multiple occasions we all know they will retain that gak faster than they raise the price of character models.

Excellent point.

The thing is, from a NARRATIVE standpoint, the pre-established fluff actually SUPPORTS the Primarchs coming back. If Warhammer 40k were a reality instead of a work of fiction, it'd be unlikely that the primarchs would come back without space mojo (not that it wouldn't happen, particularly because Wh40k is a galaxy of space mojo). However, as a work of fiction, the authors have made the narrative very clear that it intends for them to come back. Things like "Some say Gulliman is healing", "they never found Dom's body", etc etc make it very clear the authors want you, the reader, to know that the primarchs coming back is an intended possibility, and the majority of times in fiction, intended possibilities actually happen as the storyline progresses.

Of course, as also pointed out, the storyline is likely not to progress. That said, I do think there's a possibility it will someday, when GW decides they want more $$$ by releasing modern day primarch models (both traitor and loyalist), but like I said before, even if that were to happen, it's far off because they need to finish the Horus Heresy first. The narrative, however, is clearly set up for them (ALL of them for the loyalists, including even Ferrus Manus if in a really particularly handwaved way. Sanguinus being the possible exception since the narrative actually addresses that he isn't supposed to come back, but again, even he has the Sanguinor, although in a way the Sanguinor also supports that he won't come back in a "the Sanguinor is as good as it'll ever get for him" way).

I highly doubt that Manus is coming back. He wasn't a perpetual, and he was fully decapitated by a Daemon blade. He'd deader than the Dodo, no matter how hard the Iron Hands try to ignore it.

 Wyzilla wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

carlos13th wrote:
Lets be honest all primarchs have exactly the same chance of coming back which is close to 0 due to GW never moving the plot forward. That said if they did want to bring them back do you think something as small as pre established fluff would stand in their way? If they want to bring someone back who they have clearly stated has died on multiple occasions we all know they will retain that gak faster than they raise the price of character models.

Excellent point.

The thing is, from a NARRATIVE standpoint, the pre-established fluff actually SUPPORTS the Primarchs coming back. If Warhammer 40k were a reality instead of a work of fiction, it'd be unlikely that the primarchs would come back without space mojo (not that it wouldn't happen, particularly because Wh40k is a galaxy of space mojo). However, as a work of fiction, the authors have made the narrative very clear that it intends for them to come back. Things like "Some say Gulliman is healing", "they never found Dom's body", etc etc make it very clear the authors want you, the reader, to know that the primarchs coming back is an intended possibility, and the majority of times in fiction, intended possibilities actually happen as the storyline progresses.

Of course, as also pointed out, the storyline is likely not to progress. That said, I do think there's a possibility it will someday, when GW decides they want more $$$ by releasing modern day primarch models (both traitor and loyalist), but like I said before, even if that were to happen, it's far off because they need to finish the Horus Heresy first. The narrative, however, is clearly set up for them (ALL of them for the loyalists, including even Ferrus Manus if in a really particularly handwaved way. Sanguinus being the possible exception since the narrative actually addresses that he isn't supposed to come back, but again, even he has the Sanguinor, although in a way the Sanguinor also supports that he won't come back in a "the Sanguinor is as good as it'll ever get for him" way).

I highly doubt that Manus is coming back. He wasn't a perpetual, and he was fully decapitated by a Daemon blade. He'd deader than the Dodo, no matter how hard the Iron Hands try to ignore it.

Death in 40k is such an anomalous thing though. Sanguinius is clearly dead by our definition, but even before the Sanguinor there was evidence that his soul had survived and was watching over his Blood Angels (BA Omnibus). If the soul is still intact, then who knows what could be done to give them "life" once more.

Whether or not they should be brought back is a separate matter, I believe they should remain as they are personally.

Meh,I want my primarch back!

Guilliman as well. They put a plot hole in one of the HH books of a device that heals people in stasis.

 raiden wrote:
Meh,I want my primarch back!

Sanguinius will never come back. You are stuck with Sanguinor, sorry.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seems everyone has forgotten Corvus Corax, he just copied an Edgar Allen Poe quote and walked into the warp.

my memory s fuzzy, what quote would that be?

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
Pretty much. But don't forget about Khan leading a slave rebellion in Commorragh.

Does primarch being so resillent to Dark Eldar BDSM hedonism?

If anyone's coming back it's Ferrus Mannus.

He'll do anything to get ahead.

^ exalted

Daemon Primarchs...*Drool*

Anyone else fancy Mortarion? Magnus? Angron? Fulgrim? Those big 4 could tear things up a bit.

But on the other hand, it would be really nice for the Imperium to have some Primarchs back. I mean, if you look at the history, since the primarchs left/died the Necrons reawakened, Nids poured thru the galaxy edges, and Tau popped up! Kinda sucks to be the imperium right now...

 Wyzilla wrote:

I highly doubt that Manus is coming back. He wasn't a perpetual, and he was fully decapitated by a Daemon blade. He'd deader than the Dodo, no matter how hard the Iron Hands try to ignore it.

Ferrus Manus has the least likelihood, even from a narrative standpoint (because the narrative does say it could just be typical Iron Hand stubborness that thinks he'll come back), but it still exists if only because Ferrus coming back is still implied to be possible when Sanguinus is explicitly stated as the ONLY primarch with no chance of coming back. If a story basically says "only Sanguinus has no chance of coming back", then the narrative leaves open Ferrus coming back no matter how unlikely. But I do admit his chances are less than the other loyalist primarchs.

jathomas2013 wrote:
Anyone else fancy Mortarion? Magnus? Angron? Fulgrim? Those big 4 could tear things up a bit.

But on the other hand, it would be really nice for the Imperium to have some Primarchs back. I mean, if you look at the history, since the primarchs left/died the Necrons reawakened, Nids poured thru the galaxy edges, and Tau popped up! Kinda sucks to be the imperium right now...

So since the Imperium is attacked on all sides by every kind of xenos and daemon, you also want to add the Daemon Primarchs to the mix? What did the poor Imperium do to you?

Hey. Deamon primarchs MIGHT be enough to wake up the other loyalist primarchs. Also. Sanguinius returns with them from the warp

I want to bring Daemon Primarchs back, but I also want the Loyalists back too. Then the IoM, Chaos and Xenos will all charge at one another and blow up in a universe-shattering explosion of pure epicness.

 SarisKhan wrote:
I want to bring Daemon Primarchs back, but I also want the Loyalists back too. Then the IoM, Chaos and Xenos will all charge at one another and blow up in a universe-shattering explosion of pure epicness.

The Daemon Primarchs kill Abaddon and lead their own Black Crusade to Terra. Massive bloodshed occurs in the sol system which awakens the Void Dragon who starts killing everything in sight, the Eldar arrive to take care of the dragon, the Necrons arrive to take care of the dragon, Ghazghkull arrives in the sol system after being chased by the Black Templars, and the Tau wait for things to calm down so they can claim Terra for themselves. MORTAL KOMBAT!

Best galactic genocide ever.

derke56 wrote:
immortal until stabbed

You.
Are.
The.
King.

 Lord Spartacus wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
I want to bring Daemon Primarchs back, but I also want the Loyalists back too. Then the IoM, Chaos and Xenos will all charge at one another and blow up in a universe-shattering explosion of pure epicness.

The Daemon Primarchs kill Abaddon and lead their own Black Crusade to Terra. Massive bloodshed occurs in the sol system which awakens the Void Dragon who starts killing everything in sight, the Eldar arrive to take care of the dragon, the Necrons arrive to take care of the dragon, Ghazghkull arrives in the sol system after being chased by the Black Templars, and the Tau wait for things to calm down so they can claim Terra for themselves. MORTAL KOMBAT!

Best galactic genocide ever.

Abaddon has their backing and support for the 13th Black Crusade and it's also been stated that the daemon primarchs have been "rumoured" to have been spotted during it already. So the daemon primarchs probably already joined the party. We just haven't gotten rules and models to play as them yet (...besides Angron, teeeechnically and maybe)

Well, some of them do have some old models from Epic, I think


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Spartacus wrote:

So since the Imperium is attacked on all sides by every kind of xenos and daemon, you also want to add the Daemon Primarchs to the mix? What did the poor Imperium do to you?

GW will likely bring both the daemon primarchs and the loyalist primarchs back at the same time. That way things advance in a way for the setting while still keeping the overall stalemate, and GW gets money from the models.

Again, if they ever do that, it won't happen until after the Horus Heresy range is complete for obvious business reasons.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Again, if they ever do that, it won't happen until after the Horus Heresy range is complete for obvious business reasons.

Well that's a bad sign since it looks like the HH books will never stop coming. Plus, they have to milk the Battle for Terra with countless books too.

SPOILER ALERT






No, Vulkan is the only one that we can say is definitely alive. Remember the codexes are written from an imperial perspective so they could be bias towards saying they will return. So yeah the only people who have seen the Lion since he was put in the rock are a bunch of little jawa things so no real proof there. We know that the necrons have a "giant power armoured figure" in statis, apparently the Dark Eldar also have one although no real confirmation but it's probably Russ caught by the cronnies and Khan caught by the DE. However Vulkan is a Perpetual and cannot die. it is yet to be revealed where he is but it will be revealed in one of the upcoming heresy novels. The cabal from the heresy said something about stopping Vulkan from ascending to become the guardian or something along those lines. it has also been confirmed that Vulkan Lives was the first in a trilogy about him so my guess is we'll find out when those books come out. But yeah to sum up, The rest no one has seen for ages and could be dead or alive despite all the prophecy's about them returning at the end times for humanities final battle. Vulkan cannot die therefor we can safely assume he is not dead XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:

"Well, some of them do have some old models from Epic, I think "


I know that Angron and Mortarion did but not sure about the others. angron looked like a steriotypical devil with wings and mortarion looked like the grim reaper.

Angron, Magnus, Fulgrim and Mortarian all had epic models back in epic 2nd edition.
As for the lion being in the rock, there are no witnesses to that, its merely stated that he is there and only the emperor knows it.

It's funny cause Daemon prince angron has official GW rules and he is worse than the pre-heresy angron from betrayal...

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2110495_The_Battle_for_Armageddon

That's what three editions worth of codex-creep will do.

 raiden wrote:
my memory s fuzzy, what quote would that be?

Quoth the raven "Nevermore."

 Shredsmore wrote:
"Nevermore."

I think whoever wrote that thinks they are extremely clever.

 1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:
SPOILER ALERT

No, Vulkan is the only one that we can say is definitely alive. Remember the codexes are written from an imperial perspective so they could be bias towards saying they will return. So yeah the only people who have seen the Lion since he was put in the rock are a bunch of little jawa things so no real proof there. We know that the necrons have a "giant power armoured figure" in statis, apparently the Dark Eldar also have one although no real confirmation but it's probably Russ caught by the cronnies and Khan caught by the DE. However Vulkan is a Perpetual and cannot die. it is yet to be revealed where he is but it will be revealed in one of the upcoming heresy novels. The cabal from the heresy said something about stopping Vulkan from ascending to become the guardian or something along those lines. it has also been confirmed that Vulkan Lives was the first in a trilogy about him so my guess is we'll find out when those books come out. But yeah to sum up, The rest no one has seen for ages and could be dead or alive despite all the prophecy's about them returning at the end times for humanities final battle. Vulkan cannot die therefor we can safely assume he is not dead XD\

A huge enormous man was spotted leading the 13th Company during the 13th Black Crusade, and Russ is also implied to still be leading it in the Ragnar Space Wolf novels, I believe.

How would the necrons get him? He's in the warp (or was). That's unreachable by the necrons.

It may be Corax, I don't know. Plus whats all this "codex creep". The current angron rules are forge world. in Betrayal...Also all that going into the warp stuff was wrong about russ. he went into the eye of terror, there is a distinct difference. and in the black crusade campaign GW brought out a while back the 13th company had all horribly mutated and most were closer to wolves than men. still fought for the imperium and wore power armour and shiz but they were all definitely wulfen. and it named a wolf lord as their leader who's name i cannot remember. i looked up on it cause i was interested in the black crusade and also in the fates of all the primarch and the 13th obviously tied in with russ.

... there's actually not much difference between the Warp and the Eye of Terror.

What source says "Russ" was spotted leading the 13th Co. during the 13th Black Crusade?

Also it says "a giant of a man in baroque armor" in stasis within Trazyn's galleries... This could simply be a regular Astartes in an older mark armor, no where does it hint to be a Primarch but I can see where someone would jump to conclusions.

If it was just a normal marine it isn't worth mentioning. Giant man in SM dex has to be HUGE.

 raiden wrote:
If it was just a normal marine it isn't worth mentioning. Giant man in SM dex has to be HUGE.

I'm sure not even GW knows who the hell he is.

 raiden wrote:
If it was just a normal marine it isn't worth mentioning. Giant man in SM dex has to be HUGE.

It was the Necron Codex, not the Marine one

 Lord Spartacus wrote:

I'm sure not even GW knows who the hell he is.

Yeah, it's probably just a plot hook.

Im suprised that no-one has mentioned the two missing primarchs and their legions (most likely they dont have a legion)
I mean everyone has talked about certain primarchs having the possibility of coming back and that others are certainly dead but no-one has mentioned "what if the two unknown primachs were discovered?"

Mellow wrote:
But who is watching the watchers?

Kronk.

Krieg!!! wrote:
Im suprised that no-one has mentioned the two missing primarchs and their legions (most likely they dont have a legion)
I mean everyone has talked about certain primarchs having the possibility of coming back and that others are certainly dead but no-one has mentioned "what if the two unknown primachs were discovered?"

Because they were sanctioned and killed.

Maybe.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Maybe.

It has been all but flat out stated to have been the case. They wouldn't have been stricken from all Imperial records if they were simply missing. So even if they were alive and they did return, it wouldn't be a good thing for the Imperium.

Krieg!!! wrote:
Im suprised that no-one has mentioned the two missing primarchs and their legions (most likely they dont have a legion)
I mean everyone has talked about certain primarchs having the possibility of coming back and that others are certainly dead but no-one has mentioned "what if the two unknown primachs were discovered?"

They are referred to as "The Lost" and "The Purged". They probably aren't in a condition to return.

We don't know the specifics, is all I'm saying. Even the traitors and heretics weren't stricken from Imperial record, so there's something more to it than "they were bad".

Still, we'll never find out. They could be dead, they could have been killed by the Ultramarines as part of a conspiracy (which the Emperor was in on), they could have had really inglorious deaths (falling down the stairs, etc). Anything is speculation, though, and GW will probably never reveal anything (if there even is anything to reveal; the whole thing feels too much like it was to cover up some accident in fluff-writing, or perhaps a GW writer who has since left had ideas but told no-one).

TBH, I think it was to provide players with options for "mystery primarch" that could be either Loyalist or Chaos.

 Psienesis wrote:
TBH, I think it was to provide players with options for "mystery primarch" that could be either Loyalist or Chaos.

I have the same impression.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
We don't know the specifics, is all I'm saying. Even the traitors and heretics weren't stricken from Imperial record, so there's something more to it than "they were bad".

Still, we'll never find out. They could be dead, they could have been killed by the Ultramarines as part of a conspiracy (which the Emperor was in on), they could have had really inglorious deaths (falling down the stairs, etc). Anything is speculation, though, and GW will probably never reveal anything (if there even is anything to reveal; the whole thing feels too much like it was to cover up some accident in fluff-writing, or perhaps a GW writer who has since left had ideas but told no-one).

Not necessarily. If you think of it as a checklist, then the stricken from the record fits perfectly. 2 primarchs and their legions did something, possibly different somethings, to anger the Emperor. Emperor has them eradicated, and then stricken from the records. The traitor legions were never destroyed, so they wouldn't have been stricken from the records yet. You don't cross an active target off your list after all.

EDIT: But I understand your point about everything just being speculation anyways, we really don't know what happened to them.