Which one faction would you remove from the 40k setting and why?

(I expect people only voted tau empire because they know that tau are a good army and the lose to them)
(I am also going to get hate for this)

Tau and necrons are 2 of the most popular.

what a surprise

Tau, of course.
I am surprised that some people voted Inquisition. The big ][ are the quintessence of 40k climate!

Woops meant to click Necrons. Now, don't get me wrong. I find at least their own premise to be cool. But they are the, we are you but better everybody++;
More numerous then orks, better tech then eldar, etc, etc, etc. Also orbital star destroyer cause why not and the eldar that are reported to have the general best divination units? NAw necrons that can't be psykers have somebody that can predict perfectly everything about the future.

In terms of tau... Eh. I don't really like them honestly, but I also get what they are supposed to represent. The under dog. The army that is still making new tech and at a quick rate, a hopeful race to represent the smaller xenos races within the galaxy but too minor to have a codex for them. And that is what I like about them (on another note my favorite turn is assault and well tau are the opposite of that so....)

Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

 Redbeard wrote:
Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

I do see where you are coming from but i think gw are trying to get as big a variety as possible of mankind armies for people who don't want to play as aliens (some people I know genuinely refuse to play alien or vice versa)

I'd vote "none" if there was that choice. Every faction, no matter how much you think you are justified in disliking them, is the favorite faction of someone else. There are some factions I wouldn't play, but they each have their place in Warhammer. I've been around since RT and I welcome all factions to the table.

Imperial Guard

Keep the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Sci-Fi/Fantasy and leave the Rambo-knock-offs and Tanks to Bolt Action or whatever.

Are we on about removing an army from the table-top wargame, or from the background lore? Most people's answers would be different depending which one it is, I imagine.

I'd probably vote some Space Marine chapter (like Dark Angels, or something) for both instances because I think we have plenty of Space Marines already, thank you very much.

Space Wolves.


Seriously. They're not cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I'd vote "none" if there was that choice. Every faction, no matter how much you think you are justified in disliking them, is the favorite faction of someone else. There are some factions I wouldn't play, but they each have their place in Warhammer. I've been around since RT and I welcome all factions to the table.

Good point.

I said Space Marines. I know without them there would be no 40K, but from a non SM player (well I do play Dark Angles, but since they are not in the SM codex ) just tired of them getting allot of the goodies, while a lot of Xenos get neglected.

Also I play Tyranids. I want to play Tyranids. Why does the army play like Space Marines? If I wanted to play SM, I would play SM. I want Nids to be different. Here is hoping the new codex will be different.

Also to anyone who says Nids play Different here is why I say this.

Before SM were slower. They moved what 4" per turn. Now they move at 6" per turn like everyone does now. Free buff for them. Nerf for other armies who moved faster with no point costs adjusted.

Then Nids and Eldar could run. Now SM can run for free. Again, Nids and Eldar had to pay for those point costs, (points included in their profile) while SM get them for free.

SM gets grenades for free, and can pick ammo when before they had to choose. So basically a non thinking army choose what and when you want. Makes it easier.

So basically SM get easier and cheaper and free stuff, while other armies don't. Gets frustrating at times.

Tyranids. They have no characterization, their fluff is practically nonexistent. The only reason I can see to play their army is so you can 'win' a game against other people without having to get involved in the universe.

Alternate Space Marines, specially the Space Wolves.

 Redbeard wrote:
Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

A solid answer with no drawbacks.

I'd take out the Tau.

I wanted to say Space Marines, because of being Mary Sues, but then I wouldn't have my CSM.

So I decided Tau would have to take one for the team.

Damn space communists...

Eldar. I find them extremely boring, except for the banshees.

Damn Tau and Necron haters! Purge them all!

STOP HATING ON TAU.

OT: Sisters of battle, we have enough imperial fractions.

Why does anything need to be removed? Is there not enough room in the universe for more than four factions all of a sudden?

 Sidstyler wrote:
Why does anything need to be removed? Is there not enough room in the universe for more than four factions all of a sudden?

What are you going on about? there are at least 12 factions in 40k.

TT Wise: Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Dark Angels. Just make a big C:SM with special chapter tactics for each variant chapter.

Fluff wise: Necrons and Tyranids. Necrons are cool as a concept but, as others pointed out, they really are just a "We are better than you so die" faction. If they had some weaknesses like most other factions then I'd be okay with this but they don't seem to have any. Tyranids too. Boring army with ugly models. I think Chaos should be the ultimate threat since at least Chaos is interesting.

Nothing must be removed. If anything we need more factions, not less.
However, if I were forced to remove one, I would pick Tau, because they are stupid anime fan crap.

And people who hate on SM are probably just jealous because they get so much attention
Dark Angels and Blood Angels could be merged into the C:SM, but SW probably not, as their organisation is radically different. They do not use any 'standard' marine units at all.

Necrons are cool IMO, but their fluff could do with some rewriting.
Orks, IG, Eldar and Tyranids are just plain awesome.

Rory1432 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

I do see where you are coming from but i think gw are trying to get as big a variety as possible of mankind armies for people who don't want to play as aliens (some people I know genuinely refuse to play alien or vice versa)

So that warrants the Imperium of Mankind having... Inquisition, SoB, GK, BA, DA, SW, SM, Imperial Guard = 8 codices?

Heck, chaos, a prime threat that infects imperial citizens, marines, xenos, and then you have the daemons itself are crammed into 2 codices and have no real way of representing the xenos parts and hardly can offer any way to properly represent the infected citizens and guardsman . And then you have xenos that each have vast or unique races that rely upon a total of 1 book each (and in the end being xenos = 6 codices. There are 8 codices of Imperial and 8 non-imperial codices I dunno just find it silly

I playDA but I have to say they could be just like BT rules-wise.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Tyranids too. Boring army with ugly models.

Ugly? Who're you calling ugly?

Fluffy here is utterly beautiful:

 Selym wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Tyranids too. Boring army with ugly models.

Ugly? Who're you calling ugly?

Fluffy here is utterly beautiful:

Take one home today. All he needs is a bit of love, paint, and copious amounts of biomass per day and will eventually consume you too. Buy now! (then again, I can't say much, I think a couple zerglings are somewhat cute and Kog'maw is absolutely adorable and I love ymgarl genestealers but i think that's more because I see lovecraft)

I vote for None. They're all interesting with detailed back stories and Lore.

It was way before my time (as I only heard of Warhammer 40K about 2003 when I began reading White Dwarf, and didn't begin playing it myself until 2008 with 5th Ed) but I'd be in favour of bringing back and updating the Squats as a playable race - perhaps as a mini -Codex supplement similar to Inquisition. IIRC Mantic Games have some Space Dwarf - like miniatures for their War Path range that might work well as proxies.

All these races have an important place in the fluff, game and player's affections and to just yank out an entire race deleting it from the fluff and game would leave a massive gaping hole.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Tyranids too. Boring army with ugly models.

Ugly? Who're you calling ugly?

Fluffy here is utterly beautiful:

Take one home today. All he needs is a bit of love, paint, and copious amounts of biomass per day and will eventually consume you too. Buy now!

Special offer!

Buy one Tervigon, and recieve unlimited baby Gaunts for free!

 StarTrotter wrote:

Rory1432 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

I do see where you are coming from but i think gw are trying to get as big a variety as possible of mankind armies for people who don't want to play as aliens (some people I know genuinely refuse to play alien or vice versa)

So that warrants the Imperium of Mankind having... Inquisition, SoB, GK, BA, DA, SW, SM, Imperial Guard = 8 codices?

Heck, chaos, a prime threat that infects imperial citizens, marines, xenos, and then you have the daemons itself are crammed into 2 codices and have no real way of representing the xenos parts and hardly can offer any way to properly represent the infected citizens and guardsman . And then you have xenos that each have vast or unique races that rely upon a total of 1 book each (and in the end being xenos = 6 codices. There are 8 codices of Imperial and 8 non-imperial codices I dunno just find it silly

I think the size of the IoM warrants it. About 80% of the universe belongs to the IoM. It is by far the largest faction and thus really needs the variety. Otherwise 40k would become a much more boring place. Chaos does really need its The Lost and the Dammned codex back though.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

Rory1432 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

I do see where you are coming from but i think gw are trying to get as big a variety as possible of mankind armies for people who don't want to play as aliens (some people I know genuinely refuse to play alien or vice versa)

So that warrants the Imperium of Mankind having... Inquisition, SoB, GK, BA, DA, SW, SM, Imperial Guard = 8 codices?

Heck, chaos, a prime threat that infects imperial citizens, marines, xenos, and then you have the daemons itself are crammed into 2 codices and have no real way of representing the xenos parts and hardly can offer any way to properly represent the infected citizens and guardsman . And then you have xenos that each have vast or unique races that rely upon a total of 1 book each (and in the end being xenos = 6 codices. There are 8 codices of Imperial and 8 non-imperial codices I dunno just find it silly

I think the size of the IoM warrants it. About 80% of the universe belongs to the IoM. It is by far the largest faction and thus really needs the variety. Otherwise 40k would become a much more boring place. Chaos does really need its The Lost and the Dammned codex back though.

Yes, and we could do with a mercenary dex too.

And something to represent a planet's local gribblies. I really wanna see how that towel-monster from catachan would work on the TT

 Selym wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Tyranids too. Boring army with ugly models.

Ugly? Who're you calling ugly?

Fluffy here is utterly beautiful:

Nice paintjob! I just don't care for the gaunts is all. I think the big MCs are okay and with the right paintjob they can look awesome.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I'd vote "none" if there was that choice. Every faction, no matter how much you think you are justified in disliking them, is the favorite faction of someone else.

Pretty much this. Removing something altogether would just needlessly upset a lot of people who've come to really like their chosen faction.

And you can vote none, sort of. Just abstain.

Merge all Marines, add more Xenos if you must remove something.

Just add Xenos if not!

 The Shadow wrote:
Are we on about removing an army from the table-top wargame, or from the background lore? Most people's answers would be different depending which one it is, I imagine.

I'd probably vote some Space Marine chapter (like Dark Angels, or something) for both instances because I think we have plenty of Space Marines already, thank you very much.

When I say removed I mean they get the Squat treatment.

 Banzaimash wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Are we on about removing an army from the table-top wargame, or from the background lore? Most people's answers would be different depending which one it is, I imagine.

I'd probably vote some Space Marine chapter (like Dark Angels, or something) for both instances because I think we have plenty of Space Marines already, thank you very much.

When I say removed I mean they get the Squat treatment.

Well, in that case, I'd go with the idea of merging the loyal SM forces.
Then the excessive updates would actually make sense.

Though the SM:All other armies ratio would still be rather wonky.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

Rory1432 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

I do see where you are coming from but i think gw are trying to get as big a variety as possible of mankind armies for people who don't want to play as aliens (some people I know genuinely refuse to play alien or vice versa)

So that warrants the Imperium of Mankind having... Inquisition, SoB, GK, BA, DA, SW, SM, Imperial Guard = 8 codices?

Heck, chaos, a prime threat that infects imperial citizens, marines, xenos, and then you have the daemons itself are crammed into 2 codices and have no real way of representing the xenos parts and hardly can offer any way to properly represent the infected citizens and guardsman . And then you have xenos that each have vast or unique races that rely upon a total of 1 book each (and in the end being xenos = 6 codices. There are 8 codices of Imperial and 8 non-imperial codices I dunno just find it silly

I think the size of the IoM warrants it. About 80% of the universe belongs to the IoM. It is by far the largest faction and thus really needs the variety. Otherwise 40k would become a much more boring place. Chaos does really need its The Lost and the Dammned codex back though.

80%? I mean sure we could represent Farm World, or Industrial World, or feral worlds, or all that jazz but most of those are just things to feed and supply the Imperium. How much of those would actually make for interesting things, compared to Chaos Worlders who live dedicated to Tzeentch, or Khorne?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

Rory1432 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

I do see where you are coming from but i think gw are trying to get as big a variety as possible of mankind armies for people who don't want to play as aliens (some people I know genuinely refuse to play alien or vice versa)

So that warrants the Imperium of Mankind having... Inquisition, SoB, GK, BA, DA, SW, SM, Imperial Guard = 8 codices?

Heck, chaos, a prime threat that infects imperial citizens, marines, xenos, and then you have the daemons itself are crammed into 2 codices and have no real way of representing the xenos parts and hardly can offer any way to properly represent the infected citizens and guardsman . And then you have xenos that each have vast or unique races that rely upon a total of 1 book each (and in the end being xenos = 6 codices. There are 8 codices of Imperial and 8 non-imperial codices I dunno just find it silly

I think the size of the IoM warrants it. About 80% of the universe belongs to the IoM. It is by far the largest faction and thus really needs the variety. Otherwise 40k would become a much more boring place. Chaos does really need its The Lost and the Dammned codex back though.

80%? I mean sure we could represent Farm World, or Industrial World, or feral worlds, or all that jazz but most of those are just things to feed and supply the Imperium. How much of those would actually make for interesting things, compared to Chaos Worlders who live dedicated to Tzeentch, or Khorne?

Yeah, I want my insane beast-man on disc with mastery 2 represented!

(I don't actually have one, but it'd be fun)

I want the favourite army of everyone who has so far voted to be removed. That way the wailing and gnashing of teeth shall be at its most glorious.

I have to go with Tau, and I've never played against them.
I just don't think they fit in as much really, to me they feel tacked-on to get the anime mech type fans into the game

I voted Tau their asthetics are really dull and well I absolutely hate Anime. They just dont fit in to the theme in my opinion.

But Necrons are ok but i think they are excessive, even when i see them on the table top. So necrons would get my second vote.

Id have to say orks as 3rd because i prefer serious things and orks are far from that.

In short i would be happy with just imperial guard and only imperial guard but i must settle for whats available.

Orks, nothing from the faction appeals to me, at all.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I voted Tau their asthetics are really dull

I agree. Boring is boring, but spiky bitz, sharp edges, warped flesh etc is fun to look at.

Also, it seems odd that the poll says Ecclesiarchy instead of just Sisters. Whilst the AS codex is indeed an "Ecclesiarchy" codex in that it includes clegymen as well as Sisters and represents an army that the Ecclesiarchy would put forward, the Sisters have the codex named for them and are the backbone of it.

If one "squatted" the Ecclesiarchy, you'd basically be removing organised religion from the Imperium, which would be a pretty major change.

 Redbeard wrote:
Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

I want BT dex too and wish they had there own. But don't you DARE touch my angels :p

 raiden wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

I want BT dex too and wish they had there own. But don't you DARE touch my angels :p

BURN THE NON-HERETIC!

 Troike wrote:
Also, it seems odd that the poll says Ecclesiarchy instead of just Sisters. Whilst the AS codex is indeed an "Ecclesiarchy" codex in that it includes clegymen as well as Sisters and represents an army that the Ecclesiarchy would put forward, the Sisters have the codex named for them and are the backbone of it.

If one "squatted" the Ecclesiarchy, you'd basically be removing organised religion from the Imperium, which would be a pretty major change.

There are no religious enforcers (in most countries) today yet there is plenty of organised religion. I like having them in the setting but i didnt see any one say why they voted against it which is suspicious... i wonder what happened to them when they clicked that vote button wrong...

I wouldn't pick any to remove, but I would be in favor of rolling all the Space Marines together and giving them individually less screen-time within the universe.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I wouldn't pick any to remove, but I would be in favor of rolling all the Space Marines together and giving them individually less screen-time within the universe.

That's probably my opinion too.

 Selym wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
I voted Tau their asthetics are really dull

I agree. Boring is boring, but spiky bitz, sharp edges, warped flesh etc is fun to look at.

Yes, brother. More spikes for the spike god.

I am missing a NONE option.

I would add at least 20 new factions: Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Arbites, Dark Mechanicus, Kroot, Grot Rebels, Lost and the Damned, Genestealer Cult, Dogs of War (mercenaries), Exodites, Harlequins, Enslavers, Beastmen, Space Skaven, Hurd & Umbra, Squat, Chaos Squat, Adeptus Astra Telepathica, something called Index Xenos giving rules for 30 minor xeno species (such as the Rak´Gol, the Fra´al, the Thyrrus or the Zoats), something called Codex: Tau Auxiliaries for all those Tau allies we keep hearing from (such as Tarellian, Morralian, Nicassar or Hrenian) aaaaand that one faction I am unable to remember right now but I will love to see.

And subfactions: Chaos Legions, Chaos Undivided build-your-own-lesser-god style including Malal, famous regiments of the Imperial Guard, Ork clans...

First, this is assuming we're talking about it never existing, since I think the idea of actually removing a faction isn't realistic these days.

Fluff-wise, I don't think Dark Eldar add much to the setting, add to it they aren't very numerous and don't have any cool plans. I like them, but, if I had to pick, they add the least.

Alternatively, things I'd keep in the fluff but I'm not sure have a place on the table: Inquisition/grey knights don't really have a place outside of allies, I think. I also just don't really understand how Tyranids exist on the tabletop- aren't they almost always appearing as an overwhelming horde? I dunno, seems like they're a threat that couldn't be represented in a game smaller in scope than epic 40k. edit: I guess DE fit here, too- doesn't hurt to have background involving evil space elves.

Rules-wise, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, maybe space wolves could probably be reduced to tactics, characters, and some unit entries in a bloated codex: Marines, which would justify the hefty price tag and hopefully see expanded sub-armies elsewhere. Or, at least could have a bit ago- they're getting more unique, but I'm still not sure if it adds that much to the game.

edit 2: I understand the Tau hate, as they're a strong army that doesn't fit in the aesthetic of much of the rest of the game, but I also think that by the same token (except the imbalance in power) they add a new dimension to the game.

 da001 wrote:
I am missing a NONE option.

I would add at least 20 new factions: Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Arbites, Dark Mechanicus, Kroot, Grot Rebels, Lost and the Damned, Genestealer Cult, Dogs of War (mercenaries), Exodites, Harlequins, Enslavers, Beastmen, Space Skaven, Hurd & Umbra, Squat, Chaos Squat, Adeptus Astra Telepathica, something called Index Xenos giving rules for 30 minor xeno species (such as the Rak´Gol, the Fra´al, the Thyrrus or the Zoats), something called Codex: Tau Auxiliaries for all those Tau allies we keep hearing from (such as Tarellian, Morralian, Nicassar or Hrenian) aaaaand that one faction I am unable to remember right now but I will love to see.

And subfactions: Chaos Legions, Chaos Undivided build-your-own-lesser-god style including Malal, famous regiments of the Imperial Guard, Ork clans...

My fellow spikey marines, tuff 'uns, Nid squigs, mummies, not so pointy marines, pointy ears, las gunners, flamer girls, and fishsticks. These are words of true wisdom! The squats were a race few people even played but their destruction has still brought bitterness. The closest to a remove of codex that is even acceptable is rolling DA, BA, and, if possible, SW into the SM codex. But look at the world! Look at all the fascinating and awesome pieces of the lore we cannot deploy! No, that is unacceptable! Onwards! No longer must we destroy! No, now we must create (and offer more spikes to the gods)

I'd rather combine certain things.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 da001 wrote:
I am missing a NONE option.

I would add at least 20 new factions: Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Arbites, Dark Mechanicus, Kroot, Grot Rebels, Lost and the Damned, Genestealer Cult, Dogs of War (mercenaries), Exodites, Harlequins, Enslavers, Beastmen, Space Skaven, Hurd & Umbra, Squat, Chaos Squat, Adeptus Astra Telepathica, something called Index Xenos giving rules for 30 minor xeno species (such as the Rak´Gol, the Fra´al, the Thyrrus or the Zoats), something called Codex: Tau Auxiliaries for all those Tau allies we keep hearing from (such as Tarellian, Morralian, Nicassar or Hrenian) aaaaand that one faction I am unable to remember right now but I will love to see.

And subfactions: Chaos Legions, Chaos Undivided build-your-own-lesser-god style including Malal, famous regiments of the Imperial Guard, Ork clans...

My fellow spikey marines, tuff 'uns, Nid squigs, mummies, not so pointy marines, pointy ears, las gunners, flamer girls, and fishsticks. These are words of true wisdom! The squats were a race few people even played but their destruction has still brought bitterness. The closest to a remove of codex that is even acceptable is rolling DA, BA, and, if possible, SW into the SM codex. But look at the world! Look at all the fascinating and awesome pieces of the lore we cannot deploy! No, that is unacceptable! Onwards! No longer must we destroy! No, now we must create (and offer more spikes to the gods)

*Tzeentch somewhere in the background*

JUST AS PLANNED!!

I voted the Inquisition because I miss read the thread title and took it as which should get taken out of the game.

Inquisitors and Grey Knights in general have no place on the table top given the size of the conflicts. They would be awesome of kill team type sinerios where you only get 6 - 10 models. In that setting I could easily see them shine, but as an entire force. Hate it.

Also I would have voted for Chaos Deamons if it was an option. I can't stand the very existence of that codex. Deamons do not make warbands and go invading. Just no.

 Selym wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 da001 wrote:
I am missing a NONE option.

I would add at least 20 new factions: Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Arbites, Dark Mechanicus, Kroot, Grot Rebels, Lost and the Damned, Genestealer Cult, Dogs of War (mercenaries), Exodites, Harlequins, Enslavers, Beastmen, Space Skaven, Hurd & Umbra, Squat, Chaos Squat, Adeptus Astra Telepathica, something called Index Xenos giving rules for 30 minor xeno species (such as the Rak´Gol, the Fra´al, the Thyrrus or the Zoats), something called Codex: Tau Auxiliaries for all those Tau allies we keep hearing from (such as Tarellian, Morralian, Nicassar or Hrenian) aaaaand that one faction I am unable to remember right now but I will love to see.

And subfactions: Chaos Legions, Chaos Undivided build-your-own-lesser-god style including Malal, famous regiments of the Imperial Guard, Ork clans...

My fellow spikey marines, tuff 'uns, Nid squigs, mummies, not so pointy marines, pointy ears, las gunners, flamer girls, and fishsticks. These are words of true wisdom! The squats were a race few people even played but their destruction has still brought bitterness. The closest to a remove of codex that is even acceptable is rolling DA, BA, and, if possible, SW into the SM codex. But look at the world! Look at all the fascinating and awesome pieces of the lore we cannot deploy! No, that is unacceptable! Onwards! No longer must we destroy! No, now we must create (and offer more spikes to the gods)

*Tzeentch somewhere in the background*

JUST AS PLANNED!!

Shhh no one should know who my god of worship is nor the fact that all vehicles must have increments of 9 spikes

 Jayden63 wrote:

Also I would have voted for Chaos Deamons if it was an option. I can't stand the very existence of that codex. Deamons do not make warbands and go invading. Just no.

Actually they do. Greater Daemons, or powerful psykers (or the gods themselves) often unite swarms of warp entities and then break through to the materium to cause... well... Chaos...

I voted tau because they don't really fill a gap in the lore. Humanity is already the "new kid on the block" forging a "better universe". Eldar are already the morally superior alien race who we should learn from but can't because of reasons. Their fluff seems forced and uninspiring, the models are cool but they don't fit the grim dark. Strategically they play like IG always have. All in all they just seem redundant and forced. GW makes up for the meh fluff and meh models with a meh codex. Gunline is boring to play and to play against. 0/10 would not order the fish again.

I voted for tau, literally nothing about them fits in my humble opinion. Not a fan of the models as well. Suprised on the anti-spacewolves in here lol, our beards shall perservere!

I also say demons, because nothing says pure chaos given physical form than regiments of same looking models. Plus I dont like any of the models.

 Musashi363 wrote:
I also say demons, because nothing says pure chaos given physical form than regiments of same looking models. Plus I dont like any of the models.

This is because the Codex is bad, not because the faction is bad.

There should be rules for customizing your Daemons to the point of insanity and beyond. Search for some demon-looking models for other companies: people should be able to take these models and find a mix of options to field them in battle.

And yes, most models are lacking the demon-feeling. They look like clowns instead of terror-inspiring. There are some exceptions though: search for the Greater Daemons and Daemon Lords from Forgeworld.

But the background is nice. And it is the background what makes a faction. The rest is just the skill of the person writing the Codex or sculpting the model.

 Musashi363 wrote:
I also say demons, because nothing says pure chaos given physical form than regiments of same looking models. Plus I dont like any of the models.

The codex is short on options, I'll give you that, but it's up to the owner of the models to convert them into better forms.
We can't expect GW to produce six different types of Bloodthirsters...

Even if you do that, they will still have the same rules.

I think it should be like this: a "generic" profile for warrior, daemonette, fat guy and horror (shooty), and then you pick a mark that changes the basic profile. So you can get Bloodletters, female-looking fast Daemonettes of Khorne, fat Butchers of Khorne slow but hard to kill and Khorne shooters. Add some do-it-yourself underpowered marks for minor gods and fluffy players and we have a proper Troop section.

Repeat for HQ, Elite, Fast, Heavy and Dedicated Transports sections.

Also, two different flavors of Daemons should be Allies of Convenience at best. And Desperate Allies for K/S and N/T. They really hate each other, they are the definition of Desperate Allies.

Dark angels in the normal codex would probably work out awesome, grav guns, and centurions.

Necrons and Tau - two bolted on factions, and badly bolted on at that!

Tau's winning. There's a shock.

I am surprised that Eccleisiarchy is slightly beating Necrons.

I would have bet ten bucks that #1 would be Tau, with a close second being Necrons.

I'd say Inquisition because, in my opinion, they could be folded into the Ecclesiarchy.

Nice to see that Chaos isn't being bashed.

Though I'm not sure why the IG even got a vote.

Space Marines third tied with Necrons.

Tau because they're the most likely to be killed off anyway along with Eldar.

Tau, They were just shoehorned in without fitting the background or fluff at all, to appeal to the manga fans to get more players.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Tau, They were just shoehorned in without fitting the background or fluff at all, to appeal to the manga fans to get more players.

My thinking exactly!

Necrons - because their fluff has always been completely stupid. Also, if you want to complain about shoehorning, see: C'Tan having a hand in just about everything ever.

Then roll all the snowflake marines into one codex. BA become Marines +DC, DA = Marines + DW/RW etc.

From a tabletop perspective, having more than one Space Marine codex is tedious and not necessary.

I've never found all too much to like about the Tau, other than that they like to sit back and shoot, which would be fun to play, but isn't very fun to play against in this edition.

I would vote "none" as different people are drawn to different races and I'm not particularly annoyed by any of the races in 40k, fluff-wise or on the tabletop (except maybe Tau or DE).

I gotta ask. What were people's opinions of the older horror model?

 StarTrotter wrote:
I gotta ask. What were people's opinions of the older horror model?

Captain giant hands looks goofy as all feth. The one with the blue horror coming out of it looks cool though. I like the current ones though.

How is this relevant to the discussion?

 da001 wrote:
I am missing a NONE option.

I would add at least 20 new factions: Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Arbites, Dark Mechanicus, Kroot, Grot Rebels, Lost and the Damned, Genestealer Cult, Dogs of War (mercenaries), Exodites, Harlequins, Enslavers, Beastmen, Space Skaven, Hurd & Umbra, Squat, Chaos Squat, Adeptus Astra Telepathica, something called Index Xenos giving rules for 30 minor xeno species (such as the Rak´Gol, the Fra´al, the Thyrrus or the Zoats), something called Codex: Tau Auxiliaries for all those Tau allies we keep hearing from (such as Tarellian, Morralian, Nicassar or Hrenian) aaaaand that one faction I am unable to remember right now but I will love to see.

And subfactions: Chaos Legions, Chaos Undivided build-your-own-lesser-god style including Malal, famous regiments of the Imperial Guard, Ork clans...

You've read my mind. A Dark Mechanicus army would be Boss.

Also I hear a lot of "I don't like that, so no one should have that." going on. I personally can't stand squats and I don't miss them, but if you like squats, go for it! I won't hate on you for liking squats or bemoan that you have an army of them. Stop whining.
I want my Zoats and Slaan back! (Ok, not really, but somebody does!)

 Wilytank wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
I gotta ask. What were people's opinions of the older horror model?

Captain giant hands looks goofy as all feth. The one with the blue horror coming out of it looks cool though. I like the current ones though.

How is this relevant to the discussion?

Criticisms that daemons don't look like proper daemons. So.ally a foolish curiosity. I admit, it was out of line from me so I will apologize for that.

I voted Tau. I actually like Anime, but the design aesthetic behind the Tau just reeks of "tacked-on me too", and is insulting to most mech-head Anime fans. If I wanted to play with Anime mechs I'd go play Armored Core or Front Mission instead....

 MWHistorian wrote:

Also I hear a lot of "I don't like that, so no one should have that." going on. I personally can't stand squats and I don't miss them, but if you like squats, go for it! I won't hate on you for liking squats or bemoan that you have an army of them. Stop whining.
I want my Zoats and Slaan back! (Ok, not really, but somebody does!)

Hear hear!

I'm throwing in a third vote for "Put Daemons back in the Chaos Marine codex where they belong"

Same. I wouldn't vote to remove Daemons, but they've never worked for me as a separate codex.

None at all. Gun to my head maybe Dark Eldar could be folded into the Eldar dex. I make jokes about Tau and loath Grey Knights but I think everyone's army has a place.

If anything for the size and scope of the 40k universe, the codex selection is too cramped and bland. I like the direction it's going with army supplements, and would love to see stuff like Rak'gol, Space Dwarves (done properly), Beastman mutants, Lost and the Damned ect. finally get their time in the sun.

Guess there is a lot more hate for the blue space cows than I thought. They aren't that bad are they? Okay Fire Warrior was pretty bad but other than that?

Tau. They feel tacked on and as stated a million times before, don't really fit into the setting.

For rules, roll all Space Marines into one Codex, but make actual fleshed out supplements for the DA, SW, BT and SWs.

If anything they need to trim down on how many imperial factions get a codex.

Yeah, I agree with the front runner: tau. Fluffwise, it's always driven me crazy that someone as narrow in scope is in the game. It's sort of like if you had a world war 2 game and one faction was the Soviet Union, and one was America, and one was Germany, and one was Japan, and one was El Salvador. Like, lolwhut?

I've also never been a fan of the gundam motif as well (it was especially painful when people rushed out and bought actual gundam models at my FLGS so that they could show up on monday with three "riptides" in their list. And no, "But this is a macross model" carries no weight with me), and, of course, they have been one of the most wretched armies to play against for many a year.

It's not to say that tau couldn't be salvaged, but they'd have to be redone, not updated. Something that plays up the guerilla people's liberation crusade angle and that gives them a way to seriously travel through space on the one hand, and an end to the risible "we're good at shooting but we suck in close combat" myth that fanbois perpetrate and GW never manages to implement correctly.

For necron I sort of agree, but it's not quite as bad. The new fluff is crummy, but the model range is okay, and the gauss thing approaches a unique style. Moving them from a slow yet teleporting invincible foot horde to just another mech army was a big mistake, though, and one that's not likely to be rectified... ever.

I also agree that tyranid are a bit tragic, but I've learned to cope with them a lot better over time. On the one hand, there are been a lot more tyranid players who have airbrushes, and that tends to fix their models a LOT. On the other, their fluff is terrible right now, but it wasn't always so. I'll link you here wherein the seeds were planted for my own minor redemption on the topic.

My dark horse candidate I'll throw in here is Dark Eldar. They come on strong with their whole "torture is the only salvation from our devils bargain with the god we accidentally made who wants to eat our souls", thing, but then it slides downhill pretty quickly. Their models were, are, and ever will be awful looking - a ham-fisted pastiche of 1980's bad guy-ness. Their huge fleet of cardboard boats is sort of annoying to play against, unless you're prepared for it, in which case it would be annoying to play as your army just instantly disintegrates. They have had different units in the past, but, with the blip of WWP prominence, they've always been pretty crappy, which means that basically every dark eldar list every has looked like some form of variation on that one list that dark eldar have been able to play.

But worst of all for me is, ironically, their fluff. It starts well, but ends with a whimper. In the end, they're just a small nuisance faction mostly divorced from the main action, and, in the end, doing nothing more than being spoilers. Hmm...

 Redbeard wrote:
Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

In a way, I would like this. Even as a BA player I think that it's stupid that nearly half of the armies out there are Marines.
It would be great to see all Marines inthe following Codex: Space Marines. But we all know that GW isn't gonna do that
Marines should rather be a single faction with each having hteir own little specialities and mostly fluffy differences.

Anyway, why do people vote for Tau...? They are cool in a way and unique in 40k universe. Okay, they are a bit OP now but their last codex was form 2nd edition, they deserve having their turn on the top

Definitely Necrons. For no other reason than that they stole the Eldar's thunder. I mean, c'mon, their catch-phrase is essentially: we're ancient aliens with hyperadvanced tech just like the Eldar, only more so. Oh, but we have to be different somehow, so uuhhm, we don't have psykers. In a stupid one-upmanship way, to boot.

I didn't mind them when they were the soulless, robotic remains of a long-dead civilization with nothing left but hatred for the living (in fact, I kinda liked that concept), but now that they're suddenly sentient they add nothing to the game whatsoever.

I'm not a fan of Tau, but I've nothing against them, either.

As for the marine controversy, as much as I like my Wolves to have their own spearate codex (and they should! They were the first marine codex!), I actually think that 3rd edition more or less did it right.
One codex for general marines, and then minidexes for the divergent chapters to detail how they're different.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Nothing must be removed. If anything we need more factions, not less.
However, if I were forced to remove one, I would pick Tau, because they are stupid anime fan crap.

I like the idea, but not the anime gundam look.

Tau, we could as well have pokemon in this game.

Tyranids, because flesh ships and such are a stupid idea, even in a world of walking battle cathedrals.

 Rautakanki wrote:
Tau, we could as well have pokemon in this game.

Tyranids, because flesh ships and such are a stupid idea, even in a world of walking battle cathedrals.

I like the space narwhals, if only because they're giant bags of blood waiting for Khorne to rip apart.

I would not remove any. I think they all work pretty well together.

Consolidate all Space Marine codexes into 1, then add a Q codex, only available to me.

Tau I think are fine I just wish they matched the overall aesthetic of the game a little better.

I voted Necrons, but only because of their terrible fluff recently.

If the most recent 'Necrons can conquer everything' fluff wasn't generated, I'd have said Tau.

Space wolves, after reading betrayer and a thousand sons i just detest the space puppies. "No psykers" "but youre a psyker" "NOOOOOOO IM A RUNE PRIEST THATS DIFFERENT, GOSH"

Like many have said, I have never really thought the Tau fit well into the 40k aesthetic. Too bright and clean, but without the "dying elite" schtick that the Eldar used up.

Based purely on fluff I would have said old necrons, mostly because I detested the way the C'Tan were suddenly shoehorned into everything. ZOMG C'TAN ASLEEP ON MARS! OMGWTFBBQ is the Hive Mind a C'TAN?!?!oneone

/vomit

I'm surprised at the voting for the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition.

I love those parts of the fluff, they add grimdarkness, IMO.

Necrons. I don't care about the rules or supposedly OP units or any of that. I just hate the tomb kings in space aesthetic. Liked them better as the terminators.

Newcrons are the worst. They're entirely different from Necrons though, so keep them.

To all saying they'd remove a Space Marine one just because there are many of them, I think you're missing a crucial point.

By having more space marine codexes, the space marine players are divided up across more diverse armies. If you didn't have, say, the Blood Angels codex then those players would most likely have chosen some other space marine codex... and you'd be facing even less variety.



I went with Tau. I feel like the 40k universe wouldn't miss much without them. Also, I think they can be kind of boring to play (though not necessarily against).

I voted Tau based on fluff, though new fluff made Necrons a close second. If they ran with the fluff established in DoW: Dark Crusade, where the Tau were secretly sterilizing converts to the Greater Good, I think Tau would be way more Grimdark and appropriate for the 40k universe.

If based on rules, I would go with combining all Space Marines into one Codex and resorting to Chapter Tactics (not at all bitter about Black Templars getting pushed onto that train ).

Tau. I. Just. Don't. Like. Them.

 Da Ork Killa wrote:
Tau. I. Just. Don't. Like. Them.

Because WAAAGH!

Grey Knights. Hey, you know that SPESS MAHREENS are the best troops in the galaxy? Well we're better than them. Also we all have swords and storm bolters and everyone can take Terminator Armour.

It's like bad fan-fluff.

Deadeight wrote:
To all saying they'd remove a Space Marine one just because there are many of them, I think you're missing a crucial point.

By having more space marine codexes, the space marine players are divided up across more diverse armies. If you didn't have, say, the Blood Angels codex then those players would most likely have chosen some other space marine codex... and you'd be facing even less variety.



I went with Tau. I feel like the 40k universe wouldn't miss much without them. Also, I think they can be kind of boring to play (though not necessarily against).

Problem being there is hardly anything that makes THIS space marine different then THIS space marine. And I think that's really what many people have a problem with. Bar a few models, they look the same and are hardly different from it. Honestly I can't say I'd entirely remove anything from the setting. Ecclesiary? BLoody hell it's too important to the imperium. Inquisition? Those guys are what saves or destroys planets from exterminatus! Guardsman? Then how would the planets still be there? Chaos? The warp, the anti-human humans side? Yeah, you get my point. They all bring some form of appeal. Now, personally I don't really care for the tau asthetics. I prefer my battlesuits slow, bulky, and big and whilst I enjoy gundam-like suits to some extent, I do feel it a bit too animeish. But that's just me. Necrons? I really thinkk they need to be rebuilt from the ground up in terms of fluff. At the moment, they are we are better than all of you yay. And then you have nids that are raging from space squids that spew out bugs to take over worlds and there are OVeR 9000 OF THEM SINDRRIIIIIIIIIII!, yet I like Nids. I like the swarming hivemind organic assaults that charge using thousands of bodies to finally get the buggers into close combat whilst large slow hulking beasts follow behind.

So fluff wise, none of them. Perhaps some of them having renovations or a drastic makeover, but no to ctrl-alt-delete. In terms of codices, grab BA and DA and shove them right into the Codex Space Marine. We don't need this many codices that can easily be represented by a single one. Wolves are... whether I like them or not, rather unique. If they could, I would like these guys shoved in as well. At the very least they would be less likely from being SM+ and DA will finally have some consistent updates. GK personally I'd swap to being a support codex much like C:Inquisition. It's kinda like, you can take this as a support element (required 2 troops and maybe an hq?). Also, before any Imperials complain, bloody hell I have to represent my forces of chaos with a Chaos daemon codex that has no synergy with my CSM codex, a CSM codex that represents a far more varied list of units, and the only true way to rerpresent an armada of cultists and or lost and the damned is by way of grabbing allies of convenience guarsman that are really just imperial guardsman so no chaotic flair to them nor the bb status . As mentioned before, the more the better! Ad Mech? support book. Perhaps even add in a unique one for chaos and the sorts! Rogue Trader support (mercanaries!)? Etc etc etc. There's so many interesting parts of the world we hardly touch! Let us span out and grasps these things! With quicker codex updates, the removal of 2-3 excess codices, they could arguably add 1-2 unique codices and perhaps some small restricted support books.

If I had to remove one faction, it would be Gey Knights. Frankly speaking, just toning them down would be enough, though.

Phew, I ould remove no faction, since even if I dont like it, others do.

However, just for kicks, if I was forced to:

1. Inquisition. Simply because I have yet to read or hear about even ONE agent of the big ][ that is even remotely likeable. The whole faction is one big "Whos the biggest *bleep* competition. They are also those who regularly gak on everyone elses parade, prance around like arrogant douches of the highes caliber and compared to IG (TANKS! TANKS!) and Speehs Mareehns, they just suck.

2. Eldar. Less a removal, more of a rework. The whole "Dying race that gets owned EVERYWHERE" gets _really_ old after a while. Seriously, 80% of Fluff I read is horrible death and destruction for the Eldar, but ofc they still hang on somehow. Also, I dunno if its just me, but a lot of writers seem to have very different views on how the Eldar are actually faring currently. Sometimes you read about a ton of Craftworlds and only marginal losses, other times its only a handful of CWs and deaths rocking around 9 digits. Seriously, make up your mind allready.

3. Either give other races alternative Groups/Clans (Especially for Orks!)/etc or get rid of those 50 Spehs Mehreen Books. Its allready hard learning about the strengths, weaknesses and nuisances of the general factions, and now I have to take an advanced class with 20 addiotional Books because that dude paints his Guys green. Seriously, its not fair!

Deadeight wrote:
To all saying they'd remove a Space Marine one just because there are many of them, I think you're missing a crucial point.

By having more space marine codexes, the space marine players are divided up across more diverse armies. If you didn't have, say, the Blood Angels codex then those players would most likely have chosen some other space marine codex... and you'd be facing even less variety.

I disagree. It's good that we have variety, but stupid that each have their own codex.
Eldar have different craftworlds but you don't see them getting a codex each. Easy to understand, but it's idiotic that GW has made Marines their unique snowflake pet and that they get specialities on the expensive of other armies.


My dream would be a SM super-codex. Much like the one we have now, but with SW, BA and DA there aswell. Other choice would be a codex: SM with different cheapish Chapter supplements.

A couple of points why:
1) their unique rules (DoA, Inner Circle) are already very similar to Chapter tactics.
2) most of the units are still same. Each faction could have a couple of their own named characters and two or three own units.
3) that would keep the prices on the same level. Right now the older marine Codices have clear disadvantage compared to the newer ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stuebi wrote:

3. Either give other races alternative Groups/Clans (Especially for Orks!)/etc or get rid of those 50 Spehs Mehreen Books. Its allready hard learning about the strengths, weaknesses and nuisances of the general factions, and now I have to take an advanced class with 20 addiotional Books because that dude paints his Guys green. Seriously, its not fair!

Agreed on this.

I voted Inquisition but not to be removed from the game, just not have their own book- make sm, ig and sisters have them in their books instead. Maybe not sm but gk perhaps.

Necrons..

We already have enough bad guys. I don't like the models I don't like the fluff and the terminator movie is getting really old.

I voted Inquisition but only because of the Grey Knights.

IMO they should never have been made into a seperate army. These guys are just too rare and too elite to ever have an army of them in one place at the same time.

GW should write a codex Inquisition (a proper one instead of their e-pamphlet they have done recently) which has Inquisitors and their storm troopers and retinues as the focus and then allowing the additional use of Grey Knights, Deathwatch and Sisters (although they aren't Ordo Hereticus any more are they?) depending on which Ordo your Warlord Inquisitor belongs to.

My second choice would be to roll all the SM chapters into the main SM codex like others have said, but we all know that will never happen!

The Tau.

Because as Alairos said, it's like having a World War II game with Germany, the Soviet Union, Japan, America, England, and El Salvador.

I personally say IG. Nobody really plays IG any longer in my gaming group, and nobody's missing them. It was always very immersion-breaking to fight them.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I personally say IG. Nobody really plays IG any longer in my gaming group, and nobody's missing them. It was always very immersion-breaking to fight them.

Have you even the sligthest understanding of the 40k setting?

Nevermind. Read following post.

I actually find there's quite a few players who play IG. I suspect they may be the second most popular army, after marine.

Of course, your Meta may vary.

 Trondheim wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I personally say IG. Nobody really plays IG any longer in my gaming group, and nobody's missing them. It was always very immersion-breaking to fight them.

Have you even the sligthest understanding of the 40k setting?

Yes.

I agree that they should be kept in the fluff and all. They have a place that they should keep. But gamewise they were very immersionbreaking to play with.

Settingwise they can stay. But if Codex: IG was discontinued I would not mourn them one second.

If I HAD to remove a race from the setting as a whole it would be IG. But I'd rather not.

Ah I see well then, I suppose ones experience of playing against Guard can be dull if both players just sit there and lob templates, or the like.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I personally say IG. Nobody really plays IG any longer in my gaming group, and nobody's missing them. It was always very immersion-breaking to fight them.

Have you even the sligthest understanding of the 40k setting?

Yes.

I agree that they should be kept in the fluff and all. They have a place that they should keep. But gamewise they were very immersionbreaking to play with.

Settingwise they can stay. But if Codex: IG was discontinued I would not mourn them one second.

If I HAD to remove a race from the setting as a whole it would be IG. But I'd rather not.

But what about chaos humans; enslaved by a tyrannical warlord who just wants a ton of LRBT's?
Then you have the morality question in war: Are they truly evil, just because they are forced into chaos, or are they still irredeemable?
Immersive as feth, imo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trondheim wrote:
Ah I see well then, I suppose ones experience of playing against Guard can be dull if both players just sit there and lob templates, or the like.

IG armies with Conscripts running up the board all game can be fun
Then I'd finally have a reason to give my CSM flamers

 Selym wrote:

But what about chaos humans; enslaved by a tyrannical warlord who just wants a ton of LRBT's?
Then you have the morality question in war: Are they truly evil, just because they are forced into chaos, or are they still irredeemable?
Immersive as feth, imo.

Not what I meant.

I meant things like seeing your friend's Nobs mob get charged and cut down by a Guardsman Infantry Squad. When that happened even the IG player cringed.

I mean, some (Like most IG players, I imagine!) love that, but for me it is immersion-breaking to see.

Well, it was made by Cruddace. He's not that great at balance, it seems...

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Selym wrote:

But what about chaos humans; enslaved by a tyrannical warlord who just wants a ton of LRBT's?
Then you have the morality question in war: Are they truly evil, just because they are forced into chaos, or are they still irredeemable?
Immersive as feth, imo.

Not what I meant.

I meant things like seeing your friend's Nobs mob get charged and cut down by a Guardsman Infantry Squad. When that happened even the IG player cringed.

I mean, some (Like most IG players, I imagine!) love that, but for me it is immersion-breaking to see.

To be fair, thats less a problem with the faction, than it is with the mechanics. As long as theres some chance involved you will have those David vs Warhound Titan scenarios. Its not like Imperial Guardsmen are the only unit that seems way to puny compared by the things that usually charge it. But I do agree that it completely kills off immersion when it happens. I think it was on this very site that i read about standard Chaos Cultists throwing enough attacks around to kill terminators.

Stuebi wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Selym wrote:

But what about chaos humans; enslaved by a tyrannical warlord who just wants a ton of LRBT's?
Then you have the morality question in war: Are they truly evil, just because they are forced into chaos, or are they still irredeemable?
Immersive as feth, imo.

Not what I meant.

I meant things like seeing your friend's Nobs mob get charged and cut down by a Guardsman Infantry Squad. When that happened even the IG player cringed.

I mean, some (Like most IG players, I imagine!) love that, but for me it is immersion-breaking to see.

To be fair, thats less a problem with the faction, than it is with the mechanics. As long as theres some chance involved you will have those David vs Warhound Titan scenarios. Its not like Imperial Guardsmen are the only unit that seems way to puny compared by the things that usually charge it. But I do agree that it completely kills off immersion when it happens. I think it was on this very site that i read about standard Chaos Cultists throwing enough attacks around to kill terminators.

The greatest moment, though, was when my friend's (He's here on Dakka btw, 'Silentspy22') Gretchin took down an Avatar.

Nobody cared about the immersion-breaking there, we were laughing our faces off, but it can get tedious when things like that get too common.

I vote "none" to be on the chopping block. I think they all add to the setting, even though I wasn't a big fan of Tau when they first came out, even as it originally seemed like a blatant grab to coincide with moving into the Japanese market. I even like the idea of fielding them in Epic scale, though I don't really like their "flyers only" approach at War Machines. It seems like the Tau, of anyone, would have some sort of Titan-scale battlesuit.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Selym wrote:

But what about chaos humans; enslaved by a tyrannical warlord who just wants a ton of LRBT's?
Then you have the morality question in war: Are they truly evil, just because they are forced into chaos, or are they still irredeemable?
Immersive as feth, imo.

Not what I meant.

I meant things like seeing your friend's Nobs mob get charged and cut down by a Guardsman Infantry Squad. When that happened even the IG player cringed.

I mean, some (Like most IG players, I imagine!) love that, but for me it is immersion-breaking to see.

Aw, I've had different experiences with IG. My friend who plays as them is fething insane - he'll run dozens of IG into melee to cover for his ramming-speed LRBT's with trigger happy battlecannons firing at point blank range (He moved away before 6th ed came in, sadly).
We had one game where for about ten or so turns (we always ignored the turn cap) my DP and his Yarrick played tag across the battlefiled. Yarrick would assault my DP, get knocked down, my DP would go kill something and then Yarrick would get back up and try again

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:


I meant things like seeing your friend's Nobs mob get charged and cut down by a Guardsman Infantry Squad. When that happened even the IG player cringed.

I mean, some (Like most IG players, I imagine!) love that, but for me it is immersion-breaking to see.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Why in the name of Gork, Mork, Khorne and the greater Good would I want to remove a race from the 40k setting?

 Kosake wrote:
Why in the name of Gork, Mork, Khorne and the greater Good would I want to remove a race from the 40k setting?

Spite? Sore Loser Syndrome? Arachnophobia?

I just find it funny there are so many people saying Tau should go because they're too anime-ish. To me Tau are a very generic sci-fi alien race. That's not bad, mind you. I just don't see much specific style to them. I really can't see any anime influence in them. At least not compared to Eldar with their feathered armor, giant crests on their helmets, and gem encrusted everything.

Tau. Came out of nowhere + stupid anime aesthetic. Necrons too, though at least they actually were represented in the fluff in the early days.

 Dannyevilguy wrote:
Necrons...I just hate the tomb kings in space aesthetic. Liked them better as the terminators.

Tomb kings in space aesthetic? You mean the aesthetic they've always had?

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I vote "none" to be on the chopping block. I think they all add to the setting, even though I wasn't a big fan of Tau when they first came out, even as it originally seemed like a blatant grab to coincide with moving into the Japanese market. I even like the idea of fielding them in Epic scale, though I don't really like their "flyers only" approach at War Machines. It seems like the Tau, of anyone, would have some sort of Titan-scale battlesuit.

The Tau are meant to be geared as the next gen military of the future. I can see the 'anime' grab, but in many respects they just actually brought some of Heinlein's work to the table top (mobile battlesuits that can deploy from space/aircraft).

As a result, huge robots are kind of out of step with the Tau mo. A huge robot is just a huge target and thus easily destroyable by a bunch of guys with rockets and a tube to launch them from. The Riptide stretches it a bit to much given it's large size. Shield or no shield, eventually some joe with a missle launcher would end it's career as it can't take cover anywhere.

I think trying to cap a battlesuit at 10-12 feet tall would have been sufficient.

Although, I do understand the Tau hate as they seem very anime (I myself cannot stand anime, but really enjoy the Tau), the fact they are 'good', and the fact that as a concept they spit mud in the eye of the imperial fanboys.

Tau, because they're way too morally bright to fit in with the universe outside of pitiful attempts to dull this idea (mind controlling isn't grimdark enough for me) and because their play style in the game works to reduce the enjoyment their opponent is having until it becomes a case of deploy models, put away models without accomplishing anything on some occasions, far more than any other army.

Tau, because they're way too morally bright to fit in with the universe outside of pitiful attempts to dull this idea (mind controlling isn't grimdark enough for me) and because their play style in the game works to reduce the enjoyment their opponent is having until it becomes a case of deploy models, put away models without accomplishing anything on some occasions, far more than any other army.

That is a result of crappy 6th edition, not the Tau at large. In previous edition people cried about how UNDERpowered they were.

As a result, huge robots are kind of out of step with the Tau mo. A huge robot is just a huge target and thus easily destroyable by a bunch of guys with rockets and a tube to launch them from. The Riptide stretches it a bit to much given it's large size. Shield or no shield, eventually some joe with a missle launcher would end it's career as it can't take cover anywhere.

True. It probably stems from my latest endeavor into Epic: Armageddon with them. I am not comfortable yet with flyers in my force, and that's kind of a requisite if you want to field Tau war machines on the scale of Titans and Baneblades. Though there is a nice new fan army list that uses pairs of Riptides as a war machine formation.

Tomb kings in space aesthetic? You mean the aesthetic they've always had?

Nope. They used to be just out to destroy all life in the Milky Way for their own mysterious purposes. All the way back to 2nd edition. Tomb Kings is new.

Grey knights.

Just them

the rest of the inquisition can stay.

Nah, just keep them as they first appeared, as squads of Terminators that can be called upon like Deathwatch marines.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Tomb kings in space aesthetic? You mean the aesthetic they've always had?

Nope. They used to be just out to destroy all life in the Milky Way for their own mysterious purposes. All the way back to 2nd edition. Tomb Kings is new.

You're right. This guy totally doesn't look like a tomb king at all.

I'll give you that, but oldcrons were not newcrons.

 soomemafia wrote:

Deadeight wrote:
To all saying they'd remove a Space Marine one just because there are many of them, I think you're missing a crucial point.

By having more space marine codexes, the space marine players are divided up across more diverse armies. If you didn't have, say, the Blood Angels codex then those players would most likely have chosen some other space marine codex... and you'd be facing even less variety.

I disagree. It's good that we have variety, but stupid that each have their own codex.
Eldar have different craftworlds but you don't see them getting a codex each. Easy to understand, but it's idiotic that GW has made Marines their unique snowflake pet and that they get specialities on the expensive of other armies.


My dream would be a SM super-codex. Much like the one we have now, but with SW, BA and DA there aswell. Other choice would be a codex: SM with different cheapish Chapter supplements.

A couple of points why:
1) their unique rules (DoA, Inner Circle) are already very similar to Chapter tactics.
2) most of the units are still same. Each faction could have a couple of their own named characters and two or three own units.
3) that would keep the prices on the same level. Right now the older marine Codices have clear disadvantage compared to the newer ones.

In a perfect world where players are going to divide up equally between the armies, I agree. But in reality you'll end up with like half the players wanting to play out of the same codex.

It may not make a massive difference if you're an eldar playing one of the space marines armies, but there's an enormous difference between playing vanilla marines vs vanilla marines and vanilla marines vs space wolves. If you fold the other chapters into the space marines codex and make the units more similar you negatively affect a lot of players, and you risk making a lot of games bein very samey.

I think at the end of the day you've got to look at the effect that it will have on the average game you play. At least at the moment if you play a space wolves player and then a blood angels player, you're getting grey hunter/longfang spam and then deepstriking land raiders. It keeps games more diverse, even if you think only marginally so, which in my opinion is a good thing.

Welcome to chaos stop complaining loyalists :U

...Squats. Oh wait they already did that. Good.

*Runs away fast*

Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

Because Tolkein.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

That and the whole noblebright theme people tend to see in them.

 Selym wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

That and the whole noblebright theme people tend to see in them.

Yeah, although that doesn't bother me so much. Their noblebrightness is purchased through fire and fury, and possibly through mind-control and mass oppression (depending on how you interpret different aspects of 40k fluff, like the Dawn of War games which outright illustrate oppression on the part of the Tau). So it's not like you just transplanted some Mary Sue's in, or anything.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

That and the whole noblebright theme people tend to see in them.

Yeah, although that doesn't bother me so much. Their noblebrightness is purchased through fire and fury, and possibly through mind-control and mass oppression (depending on how you interpret different aspects of 40k fluff, like the Dawn of War games which outright illustrate oppression on the part of the Tau). So it's not like you just transplanted some Mary Sue's in, or anything.

Nah, that's SM territory.

 Selym wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

That and the whole noblebright theme people tend to see in them.

Yeah, although that doesn't bother me so much. Their noblebrightness is purchased through fire and fury, and possibly through mind-control and mass oppression (depending on how you interpret different aspects of 40k fluff, like the Dawn of War games which outright illustrate oppression on the part of the Tau). So it's not like you just transplanted some Mary Sue's in, or anything.

Nah, that's SM Ultramarines territory.

Try not to generalize - fixed it for you

I would remove...

Space-Dwarves.
Space Marines in polychromatic power armor.
Aliens lead by Lovecraft rejects.
Chaos Gods that don't get along at all and refuse to be on the same field together, and if their troops are forced to be, they might fight against one another.

Grey knights should have never got their own codex & units in power armour, or dreadknights etc...

They should and always should have stayed as individual squad allies, like deathwatch use to be and like they were in 2nd edition. They should all be in terminator armour and all have fore halberds. They were so so so so much cooler when you didn't really know much about them other than they were the elite deamon fighters of the imperium, and then, if a threat was enough to warrant their appearance you knew they were pretty much doomed as well as the deamons fighting them. They were the ultra rare, and ultra elite, possibly only numbering 100 or so, not a full blown chapter really.

The reason why I liked that they didn't know much about them was because the information that was printed on them was pretty much just rumours and scarce sightings from other imperial troops, no specifics other than they were based on Titan/

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

I honestly have to agree with you about that one, if we had to decide which army is least essential to 40k I'd have to admit it's Tau and they're my army so that makes me kinda sad.

Although from that argument we should probably get rid of Grey Knights and the Inquisition codex too, because there's substantially fewer of those than there are Tau. It would be like a WWII game that let you field an entire army of Gurkhas, complete with Gurkha tanks, Gurkha artillery, and Gurkha supply chain management that let them operate completely independently of the British forces.

 dementedwombat wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

I honestly have to agree with you about that one, if we had to decide which army is least essential to 40k I'd have to admit it's Tau and they're my army so that makes me kinda sad.

Although from that argument we should probably get rid of Grey Knights and the Inquisition codex too, because there's substantially fewer of those than there are Tau. It would be like a WWII game that let you field an entire army of Gurkhas, complete with Gurkha tanks, Gurkha artillery, and Gurkha supply chain management that let them operate completely independently of the British forces.

This I kind of agree with too. The GK thing I never thought about, but in 2nd Edition they were treated like Deathwatch, (now "sternguard") where you could get a squad of the Imperium's elite daemonhunters in an army. The same with inquisitors. The new Inquisition codex makes them ok with me though - your "army" is literally one guy, and you MUST ally in 'real' Imperial forces if you want to have any sort of combat power at all.

You know who I'd remove? Ratlings. Seriosly. The only cool thing in the fluff I know about them is that at some point I think the world eaters slaughtered enough of them to make a khonre-symbol composed of skulls visible from space.

Tau, I don't understand the whole anime mech thing

 Kosake wrote:
You know who I'd remove? Ratlings. Seriosly. The only cool thing in the fluff I know about them is that at some point I think the world eaters slaughtered enough of them to make a khonre-symbol composed of skulls visible from space.

I vote we remove Ratlings and replace them with Skaven in Spaaaaace.

You know, I genuinely loathe the Space Marines, they're too op to be any fun at all. Utterly boring and they get way to much attention leaving many races unexplored. Just go to BL and see how many xenos books you'll find compared to marines. That being said, even with my anti SM mentality I wouldn't want them or any faction written out of the setting. I think alot of factions need changes but every faction offers something for someone. No need to vote anyone out.

Tau. End of story!

Now that I have dabbled with Tau in Epic, I retract some of my further statements and now think that is where they show some unique qualities. In 40K scale they are a pretty static gunline army, and always have been. But in Epic you get to see some pretty unique things like Mantas coming in that are the size of buildings, and flights of Tigersharks and Barracudas flying in to attack. I am actually suprised by how much less static they are at that scale!

The real culprit of army bloat in 40K is the Inquisition in it's many forms. You could easily have one supplemental codex for the "Imperial Cult" that could let you ally in Grey Knight terminator squads, Deathwatch Squads, Inquisitors and their retinues as HQ units, etc. You could probably even have Sisters of Battle in there too.

Preferably not the sisters. It would fit the imperial cult vibe but I think maybe they deserve a codex . Anyways, yeah I'll concur that persoannly I feel GK, DW, Inquis, assassins, should really be wrapped up into one.

See, even as a loooong time Sisters player I always saw them as Elite foot solders (mounted in Rhinos or Immolators) that fought alongside local Imperial Guard and Militia troops, all under the command of their Cannoness. I never really liked the idea of Exorsists and Penitent Engines, I figured local forces would supply the heavy support in that way.

Almost like a Cannoneess would act as a mini-Inquisitor, exercising her Ecclesiarchal "supreme authority" by telling local forces what units she would be inducting into her force alongside her Sisters to engage a threat, rather than mini-Space Marine Chapters that are self sufficient. Having all their own gear for every circumstance makes them too much like "female Space Marines" rather than a unique force.