We all know that making rules for the Emperor would be complex enough, if not for the added idiocy (??) of the "All Tens" cliche. I propose a serious discussion on his rules.
- Given that he is the father of the Primarchs, he would have their "Primarch" rule, though obviously it would be named differently (Sire of the Primarchs??).
- Assuming "The Burning Blade" is truly his weapon, I think he would have it, but without the "Incandescent" rule.
- His talon weapon could be an uber Lightning Claw, perhaps with AP2 and some rule that inflicts multi-wounds instead of just one per hit.
- I'd think he'd have 2+ and 3++ saves.
- He would be Psyker Mastery Level 5, or above. Although Eldrad is older than he is (is he??) and even he isn't that high. Nor is Ahriman when he is aligned with Chaos. So L5 is probably the sweet spot for him.
- I don't see him being affected by Perils of the Warp, or any power that does not inflict wounds, or does not a Strength value. Perhaps he would be outright immune to powers that come from Chaos units?
- I think he'd be able to re-roll all to-hit, to-wound, and armour penetration rules.
- He could take his Psyker tests on a 3D6, or 4D6, and pick the lowest result(s). He could also re-roll failed tests, though it is very unlikely such a thing would happen.
- I think he'd have access to all disciplines in the BRB, and even the Grey Knights powers.
- Any Imperial units would get a Leadership bonus of some sort from being near/seeing him. Stubborn, LD10, or possibly Fearless are likely options.
- Chaos Daemons could possibly be affected by Fear (from Sire of the Primarchs) when facing the Emperor. He IS the Anathema after all.
- At most he'd probably be Very Bulky, so he could fit in transports. Or, he might have a select few he could embark upon.
- Point cost wise, he'd be well above Horus (500 pts) and no doubt could be in the range of the Daemon Lords (the highest being 999 pts). He may even cost the same or more as a Tau Manta (1500 pts??).
Whatever the case, he'd be a force to be reckoned with on the table-top. Characters like Abaddon and the Swarmlord might just lose in a fight against him. Shadow of the Warp may barely slow him down, if at all.
So yeah, discuss what could be towards creating rules for the Emperor. Just be serious about it, and try to avoid the All Ten cliche. A 10 is fine for some of the stats, but not all of them; not even the Daemon Lords are that good.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: I'd imagine he'd have to have at least T7. I mean, if he had any less, then he'd be killable with Gretchin. That would be somewhat immersion breaking.
I would agree with T7 as well.
Since I would see him having access to multiple disciplines, his other stats could be boosted anytime he wanted.
All 10's is probably easier to manage than keeping track of a dozen or more special rules that make him super strong and pretty much invincible against everything. I agree, he should be very strong, but I've seen where threads like this usually end up.
Mastery level:5 Can pick from all disciplines besides Chaos.
The God Emperor: 24" LD 10, Fearless, Stubborn, to Imperial troops, No bonus to allies other than Space Marines, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, or Imperial Guard. Fear, - 2 LD (To min of 2) and fear to Chaos, and Chaos Space Marines
All Powerful: May choose one One point pyker power from any non chaos discipline without needing to roll. does not take perils of the warp tests.
1000 A Day...: Any offensive Psychic powers used on another pysker have Instant death.
SMITE!: all attacks on any unit from Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Codex: Chaos Demons have Instant Death, and ignore invulnerable saves.
Mastery level:5
Can pick from all disciplines besides Chaos.
The God Emperor: 24" LD 10, Fearless, Stubborn, to Imperial troops, No bonus to allies other than Space Marines, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, or Imperial Guard.
Fear, - 2 LD (To min of 2) and fear to Chaos, and Chaos Space Marines
All Powerful: May choose one One point pyker power from any non chaos discipline without needing to roll. does not take perils of the warp tests.
1000 A Day...: Any offensive Psychic powers used on another pysker have Instant death.
SMITE!: all attacks on any unit from Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Codex: Chaos Demons have Instant Death, and ignore invulnerable saves.
Eternal Warrior.
1800 points, HQ
That's not worth 1800 point bud, to say the least. Maybe only 950?
Make S, T, W, I, A all 7s so he's in the next league up from the primarchs.
Give him those Transcendent Ctan powers, like the assault 6d6, and a S:10 AP:1 10"blast that takes up two less charges than his mastery level.
Then some serious army buffs like having 2 warlord traits, being able to steal initiative on a 4+, giving a limited number of units perfect deepstriking, and then the abilitiy to grant a few vanilla marine squads legion special rules.
BOOM 1500 points.
The Most Powerful Psyker Ever: No psychic tests are needed. Roll a d6, if the result is a number, The Emperor Blasts all enemy models on the board out of play, and then wins the game.
@ ThePrimodial
That wasn't a full list of what he could do... probably should have mentioned that...
And I was not sure what primarch stats are so by all means buff it anyway you see fit.
thepowerfulwill wrote: @ ThePrimodial
That wasn't a full list of what he could do... probably should have mentioned that...
And I was not sure what primarch stats are so by all means buff it anyway you see fit.
Primarch stats are basically 6's in everything. It's that simple.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DarknessEternal wrote: Nearly strangled to death by an ork. An ork that was trivially easy for a Primarch to defeat.
If he could destroy planets with mind-bullets, how come he never did?
Well there was that condensed super nova laser, and beating the snot out of the void dragon who withstood planet busting hits. So yeah he did.
That ork was the size of a soul grinder and empowered by a waagh the size of the eastern fringe of the galaxy.
On top of that what's to say he wasn't doing it to test Horus?
Void Dragon was split 65 million years before the Emperor was born. You must mean that tomb stalkerish thing.
Perhaps it was a shard, or collection of shards, of the Void Dragon, rather than the entire entity?
All 7s would be plausible. Burning Blade without the negative Incandescent rule would also be acceptable - why would the Emperor be burned by his own weapon? I'd imagine it'd work much like Sephiroth's Masamune (FF7) - only the owner can use it without incident.
Void Dragon was split 65 million years before the Emperor was born. You must mean that tomb stalkerish thing.
In the updated description of the battle between Horus and the Emperor the Emperor kills Horus with a condensed supernova laser. It's one of the most well known feats in 40k.
The Most Powerful Psyker Ever: No psychic tests are needed. Roll a d6, if the result is a number, The Emperor Blasts all enemy models on the board out of play, and then wins the game.
This has been tamed down from the fluff.
Lol this looks more like a rule for that card game "We didn't play test this at all"
For people who are nubile that is a real thing.
Any ways I like the str and toughness 7 but I would say he has more then 5 wounds and his ws is 9. I agree with the burning blade ignoring incandescent. I think he would have a 5+ at least feel no pain and then grant all that stuff for enhancing friendly space marines and guard ld fearless and what not. I would say he can fail psychic rolls but he would get re rolls but he only suffers perils on double 6's but he gets a 4+ feel no pain to resist the warp.
The Most Powerful Psyker Ever: No psychic tests are needed. Roll a d6, if the result is a number, The Emperor Blasts all enemy models on the board out of play, and then wins the game.
This has been tamed down from the fluff.
Lol this looks more like a rule for that card game "We didn't play test this at all"
For people who are nubile that is a real thing.
Any ways I like the str and toughness 7 but I would say he has more then 5 wounds and his ws is 9. I agree with the burning blade ignoring incandescent. I think he would have a 5+ at least feel no pain and then grant all that stuff for enhancing friendly space marines and guard ld fearless and what not. I would say he can fail psychic rolls but he would get re rolls but he only suffers perils on double 6's but he gets a 4+ feel no pain to resist the warp.
Lorgar has 5 wounds, and is the weakest primarch. No way Emps has 5 wounds.
In the updated description of the battle between Horus and the Emperor the Emperor kills Horus with a condensed supernova laser. It's one of the most well known feats in 40k.
They also describe plasma gun fire routinely as "a second star", yet we don't see a single plasma gun being sufficient to render Exterminatus. It's poetic license.
Anything as powerful as a supernova in a ship orbiting Terra would have vaporized the planet. All he did was kill Horus with it. And the primary component of that attack wasn't even physical, it was the erasure of Horus' soul.
Giving him some "soul-erasing laser" would be much more appropriate, since that's something he actually did (once, but it happened). He never blew up anything with his mind-bullets, let alone anything on the titanic scale you seem to attributing to him.
I agree with DarknessEternal. His power should definitely come from the Warp, not physique. In the end, he was who he was not because he could beat the crap out of everything, but because he was spiritually transcended.
Mastery level:5
Can pick from all disciplines besides Chaos.
The God Emperor: 24" LD 10, Fearless, Stubborn, to Imperial troops, No bonus to allies other than Space Marines, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, or Imperial Guard.
Fear, - 2 LD (To min of 2) and fear to Chaos, and Chaos Space Marines
All Powerful: May choose one One point pyker power from any non chaos discipline without needing to roll. does not take perils of the warp tests.
1000 A Day...: Any offensive Psychic powers used on another pysker have Instant death.
SMITE!: all attacks on any unit from Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Codex: Chaos Demons have Instant Death, and ignore invulnerable saves.
Eternal Warrior.
1800 points, HQ
WS 8 seems kinda weak, since my deamon prince Be'lakor has WS 9. S 9 seems a little much, he is after all, still just a man in terminator armor. I would use S 6 only because he is the emprah and then use psychic buffs to increase it. T 8....I don't think so. T 7 is more reasonable on that one. W 5 is not enough, there are characters now that have 5 wounds, how about 7 wounds. I would leave the attacks at 5, but add the special rule to his uber claw that the BA death company dreads have, if you inflict an unsaved wound you immediately get another attack...or something. lol I like the 2+ 3++, but I would make his inv save re-rollable. Your "SMITE!" special rule is a little....over the top, just using his stat line alone should prove to be no problem in combat. I would say an even 1000 points sounds fair.
I think the last time I discussed this on Dakka, someone raised the point that Primarchs and their classic "rivals" tend to have the same statline with one or two stats flipped (one with WS9 and BS8, the other with WS8 and BS9, for example, or W7 T6 flipped to W6 T7). To that end, I'd pattern The Emperor after Horus - with, of course, an appropriate smattering of psychic ability. Nothing like a Strength D Hellstorm template, but something. Magnus is said to be as powerful (psychically) as The Emperor, but unfortunately there are no rules for Magnus, yet.
In the updated description of the battle between Horus and the Emperor the Emperor kills Horus with a condensed supernova laser. It's one of the most well known feats in 40k.
They also describe plasma gun fire routinely as "a second star", yet we don't see a single plasma gun being sufficient to render Exterminatus. It's poetic license.
Anything as powerful as a supernova in a ship orbiting Terra would have vaporized the planet. All he did was kill Horus with it. And the primary component of that attack wasn't even physical, it was the erasure of Horus' soul.
Giving him some "soul-erasing laser" would be much more appropriate, since that's something he actually did (once, but it happened). He never blew up anything with his mind-bullets, let alone anything on the titanic scale you seem to attributing to him.
The word condensed means more powerful over a smaller area, so not necessarily. The heat could of been easily suppressed by a psyker.
A duck is a noun. It is not an adjective and it didn't say "like a supernova" it literally says "more powerful than a supernova".
Given the Emperor in his current state could open a solar system sized hole in reality I don't see the problem with him doing this.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
McNinja wrote: This This a bit easier than everyone thinks.
Take horus' statline from the horus heresy book. Add +1 to everything. Done. Now special Rules.
I think that developing appropriately scaled psychic powers for the Emperor is much more important than figuring out his stat profile. I don't think he would be more powerful physically than the Primarchs, his most potent abilities would revolve around psychic powers. The trick is making him enormously influential on the battlefield without making him an "I Win" button.
The Emperor (Points: 1000-1200ish?)
WS:9 BS:7 S:6 T:6 W:6 I:8 A:6 Ld:10 Sv:2+/3++
Wargear: The Burning Blade (S+3 AP2 Soul Blaze), Emperor's Talon (S+1 AP3 Shred, Armorbane), Terminator Armor
Special Rules:
Eternal Warrior, Fearless, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Psyker (Mastery Level 5), Mantle of Protection, The God-Emperor of Mankind, Psychic Presence, Prodigal Psyker
Mantle of Protection: The Emperor has a 3+ Invulnerable save, and always Denies the Witch on a roll of 3+. In addition, whenever he suffers an unsaved wound from any source, he ignores the wound on a 5+ (this roll is made at the same time as Feel no Pain saves). If the source is a Destroyer weapon, or has a Mark of Chaos or the Daemon special rule, he instead ignores the wound on a 4+.
The Emperor's Mantle extends to all friendly units within 12" of the Emperor. These units have a 5+ Invulnerable save, and receive +1 to their Deny the Witch rolls.
The God-Emperor of Mankind: While the Emperor is on the table, all friendly units are filled with a blessed rage, and have the Fearless and Furious Charge special rules.
Psychic Presence: The Emperor is a beacon of light in the Warp, and his psychic presence fills the battlefield. While the Emperor is on the table, friendly psykers are immune to Perils of the Warp, and enemy units receive a -1 penalty to Deny the Witch rolls (enemies who already need a 6+ do not get to roll).
Prodigal Psyker: The Emperor is the most powerful human psyker in existence, and his psychic might is beyond compare. He automatically passes psychic tests, and counts as rolling less than 5 for the purposes of focused witchfire powers. He can also use any number of psychic shooting attacks in a turn, and can target different units with psychic shooting attacks. The Emperor knows the following powers:
Emperor's Smite - witchfire (1 Warp Charge) - This power strikes an enemy unit at S8 AP2. The power is either a 36" range Large Blast, or a Torrent template weapon. The Emperor can use this power multiple times in a turn, provided he has Warp Charges remaining. Once per turn, the Emperor can expend an additional Warp Charge to change this power's profile to a nova targeting all enemy models within 12".
Divine Pronouncement - focused witchfire (1 Warp Charge) - range 24" S10 AP1 Assault 1 Blind, Strikedown. This power automatically hits. A model with the Daemon special rule hit by this power instead suffers one Strength D hit with the Blind and Strikedown rules.
Crushing Will - malediction (1 Warp Charge) - This power targets one enemy unit within 24". The target unit is WS1, BS1 and cannot move in the Movement phase.
Perfect Prescience - blessing (1 Warp Charge) - This power targets one friendly unit anywhere on the battlefield (which can be the Emperor himself). The target unit re-rolls all rolls to hit in shooting and close combat, and all saving throws until the start of its next turn.
Moment of Glory - blessing (1 Warp Charge) - This power is used before rolling for reserves, and targets one unit that is still in reserve. That unit automatically comes in at the beginning of this turn. If arriving via Deep Strike, it does not roll to scatter. If arriving via outflank, it chooses which table edge to come on. Until the start of its next turn, the unit has a 4+ Invulnerable save, and can declare an assault in the turn it arrives.
Esoteric Knowledge - variable (Warp Charge variable) - The Emperor chooses and casts one psychic power from any of the psychic disciplines in the BRB or the Grey Knights codex.
Whipped this up in my spare time. The basic concept is every primarch inheriting something from the Emperor. Like Mortarion's toughness, Angron's strength, or Magnus' psychic ability.
1500 points
WS:8/ BS:8/ S:7/ T:7/ W:7/ I:7/ A:6/ LD:10/ SV: 2+/ 3++
Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 6, Unique Powers, Master of Mankind, Master of the Astartes, Primarch, Like Unto A God
Wargear: Interminatus Conquestum, The Aquilla's Grasp, Armor of the Emperor
Powers
The Emperor may not use BRB powers and instead only uses these powers.
+Blood of Golgotha: Witchfire/ Cost:4/ S:7, AP:3/ Assault 6d6/ Range: 36 inches
+Devastation Maelstrom: Witchfire/ Cost:6/ S:10, AP:1/ 10inch blast, MC, Psyfire/ Range: 36 inches
+Wave of Withering: Witchfire/ Cost: 6/ S: D, AP:1/ Hellstorm Template
+Adamantium Arm: Blessing/ Cost: 2/ Target: The Emperor/ Target gains an additional d3 strength and toughness, 1 additional attack, and a 5+ FNP/ 1 turn duration
+Blessings of the Emperor: Blessing/ Cost: 2/ Target: 1 friendly unit within 24 inches the Emperor has line of sight to/ Target unit gains an additional point of Strength, Toughness, and Initiative, a 5+ FNP, and MC to all their attacks../ Duration: 1 turn
+Transliminal Stride: ?/ Cost: 2/ The Emperor makes a fiery enhanced charge, moving in any direction in a straight line 18 inches/ Models that fall in the path (the straight line, it could be drawn with erasable marker) of this charge are hit with a S:10 AP:1 hit.
Army Buffing Rules
=Master of the Astartes: The Emperor can grant any 3 vanilla tactical marine squads any set of legion special rules. These squads are chosen at the beginning of the game.
=Master of Mankind: The Emperor can grant any 2 units Perfect Deepstriking (do not scatter when deep striked). These are chosen at the beginning of the game.
Wargear
***Interminatus Conquestum: The Emperor's name to the Burning Blade. The Emperor is not affected by incandescent. In short this is the Burning Blade without the Incandescent special rule.
***Aquilla's Grasp: S:As User/ AP:2/ Succesful Unsaved wounds caused by this weapon result in the affected permanently losing 1 S, T, & I.
General Special Rules
-Like Unto A God: The Emperor ignores perils of the warp on a 4+, Possesses a 3+ DTW, Models attempting to deny the Emperor's powers have -1 to their DTW (No ballsy guardsmen getting lucky), Ignores Shadows in the Warp, and may not be turned into a Chaos Spawn or Daemonic Herals under any circumstances.
-Immortal: The Emperor does not take multiple wounds from S: D hits, instead only taking one under any circumstances. The Emperor may also attempt to heal two wounds per turn with his IWND.
Special Rules: [Independent Character]
[Sire of the Primarchs] The Emperor has Adamantium Will, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Fearless, Fleet, and It Will Not Die.
[Master of Mankind] All friendly units within 12" of the Emperor gain Ld10. If these same units also have LoS to the Emperor, they also gain Fearless.
[Mastery of the Warp] The Emperor is Psychic Mastery Level 5, and automatically knows all powers from every non-Chaos discipline. He is also immune to Perils of the Warp. *
[The Anathema of Chaos] Marks and Icons of Chaos do not work when within 12" of the Emperor. Chaos units which are Psykers also suffer a -1 to their Deny the Witch rolls (if below 6+ they cannot use the rule).
* Available disciplines include those from the BRB as well as powers from the Eldar and Grey Knights codicies.
With this, anything is likely to horribly die, especially if it is Chaos
So what does a warp storm have to do with a "condensed supernova laser"? The Big E obliterated Horus' sould from the warp, there is no need for some OTT physical death when your soul is obliterated.
FirePainter wrote: So what does a warp storm have to do with a "condensed supernova laser"? The Big E obliterated Horus' sould from the warp, there is no need for some OTT physical death when your soul is obliterated.
OT: I like what you came up with NeoAigaion
You mean the special rules and statline he got from me but broken due to being able to have 5 blessings on at the same time. Like invisibility, Iron Arm, Endurance, precognition, and Warp Speed?
I take that as a transitive compliment.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
FirePainter wrote: So what does a warp storm have to do with a "condensed supernova laser"? The Big E obliterated Horus' sould from the warp, there is no need for some OTT physical death when your soul is obliterated.
OT: I like what you came up with NeoAigaion
Because it's a feat of similar power.
Edit: I know he's new . How many words and numbers do our posts have in common?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nothing?
I honestly want a little feedback on mine, so we can kill any further Emperor rules threads.
It started with me, and it will end with me.
ThePrimordial wrote: Nothing.
Well I guess these are the best Emprah rules ever then.
Please stop bumping rules threads you either started or took over with things like this, it is just annoying to think there has been an actual update to a thread and then find it is actually nothing.
Totally disagree, 1k ish for an infantry model that will be killed straight away by the same pts of a titan in 1/2 shots, perhaps then allow him his inv save against the hit?
I wasn't aware that you were the very first person to think "Hey, I wonder what rules the Emperor would have if he were in the game".
I was the one who started a whole cadre of Emperor threads 3 months ago which inspired threads in other people.
I'm the godfather of the "modern" dakkadakka Emperor rules thread. They all borrow from my ideas in some way or another.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Formosa wrote: Totally disagree, 1k ish for an infantry model that will be killed straight away by the same pts of a titan in 1/2 shots, perhaps then allow him his inv save against the hit?
When you put it like that....
I'll add this:
Immortal: The Emperor does not take multiple wounds from S: D hits, instead only taking one under any circumstances. The Emperor may also attempt to heal two wounds per turn with his IWND.
Well?
I wasn't aware that you were the very first person to think "Hey, I wonder what rules the Emperor would have if he were in the game".
I was the one who started a whole cadre of Emperor threads 3 months ago which inspired threads in other people.
I'm the godfather of the "modern" dakkadakka Emperor rules thread. They all borrow from my ideas in some way or another.
I wasn't aware that you were the very first person to think "Hey, I wonder what rules the Emperor would have if he were in the game".
I was the one who started a whole cadre of Emperor threads 3 months ago which inspired threads in other people.
I'm the godfather of the "modern" dakkadakka Emperor rules thread. They all borrow from my ideas in some way or another.
You are using extraordinarily pretentious terms (like "godfather") while claiming that your ideas are so original that everyone else must be borrowing from you because they, I don't know, simply could not match your raw individuality and creative power.
You said it yourself, though. I don't know why you seek to claim these things - and if you don't, then why are you being as dramatic as "It started with me, and it will end with me"/"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end"? Stop it. You're just making yourself look extremely silly.
Frozen Ocean wrote: You are using extraordinarily pretentious terms (like "godfather") while claiming that your ideas are so original that everyone else must be borrowing from you because they, I don't know, simply could not match your raw individuality and creative power.
You said it yourself, though. I don't know why you seek to claim these things - and if you don't, then why are you being as dramatic as "It started with me, and it will end with me"/"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end"? Stop it. You're just making yourself look extremely silly.
Your god damn right there copying me?!! I'm full of win man, FULL IF WINNNNNNNN!!!!
KKKKKKKKKHHHHHHAAAAAANNNNNNNNN!!!!
Frozen Ocean wrote: You are using extraordinarily pretentious terms (like "godfather") while claiming that your ideas are so original that everyone else must be borrowing from you because they, I don't know, simply could not match your raw individuality and creative power.
You said it yourself, though. I don't know why you seek to claim these things - and if you don't, then why are you being as dramatic as "It started with me, and it will end with me"/"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end"? Stop it. You're just making yourself look extremely silly.
Someone needs to learn to take a joke. I admit I didn't give much away to show I was joking. But If you thought I was serious you must have a rather low opinion of most people.
I've posted these before and honestly they are the most toned down I have seen. Despite what people think he utterly tears any character in the game a new one, even Horus and buffed Swarmlord
The Emperor:
Ws-8. 1
BS-7
S-7. 0
T-6
W-6. 3
I-7
A-7 (two hand weapons)
LD-10
Sv-2+ 3++
Equipment: The Eagle Claw, Rune sword, Hauberk of the Imperium, Frag grenades
Rules: Weapons Master (see Horus), Sire of the Space Marines, Psyker Mastery Level 5 (knows all the powers of chosen discipline), Eternal Warrior, Teleportation Matrix (see Horus)
Rune sword: +1 strength as user Ap-2, Shred, Always strikes fist
Hauberk of the Imperium: 2+ armour save, 3+ re-rollable invulnerable save
Sire of the Space marines: All space marines in the Emperors army gain +1 LD, additionally all space marines within 12" of the Emperor may double fire their weapons even if they have moved already.
Additional Psychic powers:
Annihilate: If at any point in the match The Emperor is reduced to his last wound he may automatically make a single attack on the model that did the last wound he suffered (only if in base contact). It hits automatically and wounds on a 3+. No saves of any kind may be taken against this attack and it kills the model instantly. If a vehicle does the wound then it immediately suffers a single penetrating hit with a +1 modifier.
He's the only character in the game I wold ever give ML5. I honestly believe even Magnus will be ML4.
Anyway Forge World have announced they won't be doing Emperor rules.
BaconUprising wrote: I've posted these before and honestly they are the most toned down I have seen. Despite what people think he utterly tears any character in the game a new one, even Horus and buffed Swarmlord
The Emperor:
Ws-8. 1
BS-7
S-7. 0
T-6
W-6. 3
I-7
A-7 (two hand weapons)
LD-10
Sv-2+ 3++
Equipment: The Eagle Claw, Rune sword, Hauberk of the Imperium, Frag grenades
Rules: Weapons Master (see Horus), Sire of the Space Marines, Psyker Mastery Level 5 (knows all the powers of chosen discipline), Eternal Warrior, Teleportation Matrix (see Horus)
Rune sword: +1 strength as user Ap-2, Shred, Always strikes fist
Hauberk of the Imperium: 2+ armour save, 3+ re-rollable invulnerable save
Sire of the Space marines: All space marines in the Emperors army gain +1 LD, additionally all space marines within 12" of the Emperor may double fire their weapons even if they have moved already.
Additional Psychic powers:
Annihilate: If at any point in the match The Emperor is reduced to his last wound he may automatically make a single attack on the model that did the last wound he suffered (only if in base contact). It hits automatically and wounds on a 3+. No saves of any kind may be taken against this attack and it kills the model instantly. If a vehicle does the wound then it immediately suffers a single penetrating hit with a +1 modifier.
He's the only character in the game I wold ever give ML5. I honestly believe even Magnus will be ML4.
Anyway Forge World have announced they won't be doing Emperor rules.
Your formatting is a mess first off. I cant even find his mastery level.
I really don't think it makes sense for any of his sons to have a single higher statistics. I've made this theme before: "the Primarchs all got something from the Emperor, like Angron's strength, Mortarion's toughness, and Magnus' psychc ability."
Not only this but he seems like he would be the single most stomach churningly underpowered unit ever if he were significantly above Primarch cost. I mean Jesus Christ, the Primarchs have way better army buffs, and survivability.
@The Primordial
Your formatting is a mess first off. I cant even find his mastery level.
I really don't think it makes sense for any of his sons to have a single higher statistics. I've made this theme before: "the Primarchs all got something from the Emperor, like Angron's strength, Mortarion's toughness, and Magnus' psychc ability."
That, my dear primordial is why your Emperor rules sucked...
You can't follow fluff entirely when you make a character. He has to be balanced and so he can't have all the best stats because it isn't.
In some areas his sons bested him. For example Horus was arguably a better tactician than the Emperor in the way he wielded the legions. Angron was better at wholesale slaughter. And if you cared enough Russ was better at eating and drinking.
Secondly the mastery level is displayed in the rules section of the character so I assumed you would have been capable of finding it. In case you weren't I even left it at the bottom of the character but...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hang on did you just claim that the primarchs have better survivability? He has a fricking rerollable save? How did you figure that one out?
Mortarion is immune to poison, Dangerous Terrain, and has T7 and 7 wounds.
Vulkan halves the strength of half the weapons you'll face and also has a 3++ and T7.
Ferrus Manus has the same save and T7.
If I were to follow fluff entirely (or even to a fraction) he would cost 3 times more than an Imperator Titan, and have unthinkable amounts of S: D, with powers allowing him to affect the entire table like when he forced the entire Word Bearers legion to kneel.
Your rules are just Dogsh*t. No if, ands, or buts about it. They're the most extremely bad ones we've seen here on Dakka. Here's a question to show you why.
What's worse?
A couple S: D, and Large Blast powers (which only one can be used per turn) or the ability to have Invisibility, Iron Arm, Warp Speed, Endurance & cast Enfeeble on his opponents, every single turn?
To any onlookers this is basically going "oh yeah that's right, better not let anyone know I'm wrong".
Take a look at my rules, compare them to yours, and see which have more thought/ which are better.
I honestly want to see you do that. For you convenience: 1st page, 20th or so post.
No I simply cannot be bothered to write the pages and pages long arguments against the ridiculous points you make. We have literally had theses arguments already in every thread you have eve made. The only person who ever agrees with you is second profiles you create to agree with yourself. Ask these "onlookers" who's rules they prefer. We shall see...
BaconUprising wrote: No I simply cannot be bothered to write the pages and pages long arguments against the ridiculous points you make. We have literally had theses arguments already in every thread you have eve made. The only person who ever agrees with you is second profiles you create to agree with yourself. Ask these "onlookers" who's rules they prefer. We shall see...
Again I dare you to find flaws in mine as easily as I did yours.
Like Thorian, Brother Haraldus, Void Dragon and on occasion Imotekh?
I must have a lot of fething email addresses.
BaconUprising wrote: No I simply cannot be bothered to write the pages and pages long arguments against the ridiculous points you make. We have literally had theses arguments already in every thread you have eve made. The only person who ever agrees with you is second profiles you create to agree with yourself. Ask these "onlookers" who's rules they prefer. We shall see...
Again I dare you to find flaws in mine as easily as I did yours.
Like Thorian, Brother Haraldus, Void Dragon and on occasion Imotekh?
I must have a lot of fething email addresses.
Need I pick out all of the flaws when you have and 3 consecutive threads closed on your Emperor rules?
BaconUprising wrote: No I simply cannot be bothered to write the pages and pages long arguments against the ridiculous points you make. We have literally had theses arguments already in every thread you have eve made. The only person who ever agrees with you is second profiles you create to agree with yourself. Ask these "onlookers" who's rules they prefer. We shall see...
Again I dare you to find flaws in mine as easily as I did yours.
Like Thorian, Brother Haraldus, Void Dragon and on occasion Imotekh?
I must have a lot of fething email addresses.
Need I pick out all of the flaws when you have and 3 consecutive threads closed on your Emperor rules?
Didn't I stop that like 3 months ago?
Again let's see you try.
BaconUprising wrote: No I simply cannot be bothered to write the pages and pages long arguments against the ridiculous points you make. We have literally had theses arguments already in every thread you have eve made. The only person who ever agrees with you is second profiles you create to agree with yourself. Ask these "onlookers" who's rules they prefer. We shall see...
Again I dare you to find flaws in mine as easily as I did yours.
Like Thorian, Brother Haraldus, Void Dragon and on occasion Imotekh?
I must have a lot of fething email addresses.
Need I pick out all of the flaws when you have and 3 consecutive threads closed on your Emperor rules?
Didn't I stop that like 3 months ago?
Again let's see you try.
Hang on wait. The fact that you did in the end cease does not discredit the argument. The fact that you did it is my "try" as you put it.
Hey, I know getting threads locked because of an online pissing match is fun, but some people actually want logical emperor rules, and none of your bs is helping. I'll post up up when I get on a laptop.
BaconUprising wrote: No I simply cannot be bothered to write the pages and pages long arguments against the ridiculous points you make. We have literally had theses arguments already in every thread you have eve made. The only person who ever agrees with you is second profiles you create to agree with yourself. Ask these "onlookers" who's rules they prefer. We shall see...
Again I dare you to find flaws in mine as easily as I did yours.
Like Thorian, Brother Haraldus, Void Dragon and on occasion Imotekh?
I must have a lot of fething email addresses.
Need I pick out all of the flaws when you have and 3 consecutive threads closed on your Emperor rules?
Didn't I stop that like 3 months ago?
Again let's see you try.
Hang on wait. The fact that you did in the end cease does not discredit the argument. The fact that you did it is my "try" as you put it.
The argument is null and void when the last one made before ceasing but decently received. With an increase in quality with each thread.
This one is only better. I stopped giving it Titan firepower or even C'tan firepower. Take that as an incentive.
If you honestly expect me to go onto your profile and rifle through your threads to find your emperor ones then you can think again. Anybody who has witnessed any of them knows what you are like. I honestly can't be bothered. I can't be asked to waste my time anymore explaining why fluff doesn't = tabletop rules. It's so tiresome. Goodbye primordial. Honestly I thought you had changed a bit but I was clearly wrong. Users like you put me off going on Dakka anymore...
McNinja wrote: Hey, I know getting threads locked because of an online pissing match is fun, but some people actually want logical emperor rules, and none of your bs is helping. I'll post up up when I get on a laptop.
What do you think of my rules?
1st page 20th post.
Anything is appreciated.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BaconUprising wrote: If you honestly expect me to go onto your profile and rifle through your threads to find your emperor ones then you can think again. Anybody who has witnessed any of them knows what you are like. I honestly can't be bothered. I can't be asked to waste my time anymore explaining why fluff doesn't = tabletop rules. It's so tiresome. Goodbye primordial. Honestly I thought you had changed a bit but I was clearly wrong. Users like you put me off going on Dakka anymore...
It's on this thread.....
Let's stop the pissing match, come on.
Now now, people. Let's calm down. We all share our hobby. We're all friends here.
ThePrimordial, the issue with making Emperor rules at all is that... Well, it just won't work. Either you make him so powerful so he is unfieldable outside of utterly massive Apocalypse matches, in which case he is much more powerful than the game system is designed to handle (Much like some existing units are) and will cause many problems. Or you give him pushed-down stats, which might be balanced competetively but will lead to him being shot down by Gretchin and thus more facepalming. No matter what you choose the other side of the crowd will dislike it.
This is a problem the Primarchs share as well. FW are already pushing the boundaries by including them, but they solved this issue by giving them stats somewhere in between a MC and GC. This works, yes. To a degree. But when you want to include the Emperor of Mankind, arguably on a nearly, if not entirely, godlike level of power, the holes in the system starts to show.
I would not recommend having in the Emperor in the 40K game unless the game system was overhauled so that it was flexible enough to include such a massively powerful individual, and even then it would only really be in games the size of which most can only dream about.
That's it for me. ThePrimordial, I think your ideas are in the right direction, but the toxic mood in this thread- not pointing at anyone specific, mind, as I do not want a fight- needs to go. And I insist on the above, that he is simply not feasible to include in the current game system.
Now now, people. Let's calm down. We all share our hobby. We're all friends here.
ThePrimordial, the issue with making Emperor rules at all is that... Well, it just won't work. Either you make him so powerful so he is unfieldable outside of utterly massive Apocalypse matches, in which case he is much more powerful than the game system is designed to handle (Much like some existing units are) and will cause many problems. Or you give him pushed-down stats, which might be balanced competetively but will lead to him being shot down by Gretchin and thus more facepalming. No matter what you choose the other side of the crowd will dislike it.
This is a problem the Primarchs share as well. FW are already pushing the boundaries by including them, but they solved this issue by giving them stats somewhere in between a MC and GC. This works, yes. To a degree. But when you want to include the Emperor of Mankind, arguably on a nearly, if not entirely, godlike level of power, the holes in the system starts to show.
I would not recommend having in the Emperor in the 40K game unless the game system was overhauled so that it was flexible enough to include such a massively powerful individual, and even then it would only really be in games the size of which most can only dream about.
That's it for me. ThePrimordial, I think your ideas are in the right direction, but the toxic mood in this thread- not pointing at anyone specific, mind, as I do not want a fight- needs to go. And I insist on the above, that he is simply not feasible to include in the current game system.
You mean a S/T/W/I/A 7 model whose most destructive ability is a S:10 AP:1 10inch blast that takes up all charges for that turn is too powerful for the game?
Brother just take a look a what I have. I think you'll like it
I agree that your rules seem like the best compromise. I like them, I really do. But I still would not do it. There are just too many holes.
A basic Farseer has a 50/50 chance of besting him in Mind War.
A Wolf Priest, Shock Attack Gun, etc, can still oneshot him.
An overlord with MSS laughs in his face. (I would really REALLY cringe if this happened.)
The list can be made very, very long.
And if you give him a truckload of special rules to ignore things like the above, he becomes basically unbeatable- which might be fluffy but makes him unfeasible to actually use.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: I agree that your rules seem like the best compromise. I like them, I really do. But I still would not do it. There are just too many holes.
A basic Farseer has a 50/50 chance of besting him in Mind War.
A Wolf Priest, Shock Attack Gun, etc, can still oneshot him.
An overlord with MSS laughs in his face. (I would really REALLY cringe if this happened.)
The list can be made very, very long.
And if you give him a truckload of special rules to ignore things like the above, he becomes basically unbeatable- which might be fluffy but makes him unfeasible to actually use.
I think I've just found a place for you on my ignore list...
BrotherHaraldus wrote: I agree that your rules seem like the best compromise. I like them, I really do. But I still would not do it. There are just too many holes.
A basic Farseer has a 50/50 chance of besting him in Mind War.
A Wolf Priest, Shock Attack Gun, etc, can still oneshot him.
An overlord with MSS laughs in his face. (I would really REALLY cringe if this happened.)
The list can be made very, very long.
And if you give him a truckload of special rules to ignore things like the above, he becomes basically unbeatable- which might be fluffy but makes him unfeasible to actually use.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: I agree that your rules seem like the best compromise. I like them, I really do. But I still would not do it. There are just too many holes.
A basic Farseer has a 50/50 chance of besting him in Mind War.
A Wolf Priest, Shock Attack Gun, etc, can still oneshot him.
An overlord with MSS laughs in his face. (I would really REALLY cringe if this happened.)
The list can be made very, very long.
And if you give him a truckload of special rules to ignore things like the above, he becomes basically unbeatable- which might be fluffy but makes him unfeasible to actually use.
I think I've just found a place for you on my ignore list...
General venomous attitude helps your appeal a lot bra.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: I agree that your rules seem like the best compromise. I like them, I really do. But I still would not do it. There are just too many holes.
A basic Farseer has a 50/50 chance of besting him in Mind War.
A Wolf Priest, Shock Attack Gun, etc, can still oneshot him.
An overlord with MSS laughs in his face. (I would really REALLY cringe if this happened.)
The list can be made very, very long.
And if you give him a truckload of special rules to ignore things like the above, he becomes basically unbeatable- which might be fluffy but makes him unfeasible to actually use.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: I agree that your rules seem like the best compromise. I like them, I really do. But I still would not do it. There are just too many holes.
A basic Farseer has a 50/50 chance of besting him in Mind War.
A Wolf Priest, Shock Attack Gun, etc, can still oneshot him.
An overlord with MSS laughs in his face. (I would really REALLY cringe if this happened.)
The list can be made very, very long.
And if you give him a truckload of special rules to ignore things like the above, he becomes basically unbeatable- which might be fluffy but makes him unfeasible to actually use.
I think I've just found a place for you on my ignore list...
General venomous attitude helps your appeal a lot bra.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: I agree that your rules seem like the best compromise. I like them, I really do. But I still would not do it. There are just too many holes.
A basic Farseer has a 50/50 chance of besting him in Mind War.
A Wolf Priest, Shock Attack Gun, etc, can still oneshot him.
An overlord with MSS laughs in his face. (I would really REALLY cringe if this happened.)
The list can be made very, very long.
And if you give him a truckload of special rules to ignore things like the above, he becomes basically unbeatable- which might be fluffy but makes him unfeasible to actually use.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: I agree that your rules seem like the best compromise. I like them, I really do. But I still would not do it. There are just too many holes.
A basic Farseer has a 50/50 chance of besting him in Mind War.
A Wolf Priest, Shock Attack Gun, etc, can still oneshot him.
An overlord with MSS laughs in his face. (I would really REALLY cringe if this happened.)
The list can be made very, very long.
And if you give him a truckload of special rules to ignore things like the above, he becomes basically unbeatable- which might be fluffy but makes him unfeasible to actually use.
I think I've just found a place for you on my ignore list...
General venomous attitude helps your appeal a lot bra.
I do not seek to appeal to you...
Or the general human populace with that attitude....
I'm done with this pissing match.
I'll wait and see if this thread dies on it's own. If not I'll get some more takes on my rules.
BaconUprising wrote: Honestly through the medium of Dakka at least I don't seek to appeal to the "populace", I'm not on here to make friends.
I am not here with the purpose to make friends either, but I would not mind if I do find any. And I see no reason to scare any such potential individuals away.
BaconUprising wrote: Honestly through the medium of Dakka at least I don't seek to appeal to the "populace", I'm not on here to make friends.
I am not here with the purpose to make a friends either, but I would not mind if I do find any. And I see no reason to scare any such potential individuals away.
Haraldus as per usual is the most reasonable individual in the room on Dakka at 10pm.
BaconUprising wrote: Honestly through the medium of Dakka at least I don't seek to appeal to the "populace", I'm not on here to make friends.
I am not here with the purpose to make a friends either, but I would not mind if I do find any. And I see no reason to scare any such potential individuals away.
Haraldus as per usual is the most reasonable individual in the room on Dakka at 10pm.
You mean because he agrees with you? No I have no desire to spend any more time debating a pointless topic with either of you. Primordial my parting shot is that you cannot feasibly price an infantry sized model at much over 600 points. Your rules, next to all of them are ridiculous. And I mean most of them are utter crap. Almost everybody who has seen them agrees. You make the occasional decent set like the Argel Tal and Sanguinius rules but most of them plain and simple suck. You know the mechanics of the game so poorly I very much doubt you have ever played a game of 40k on your life. You would know how ridiculous your claims are if you had. Either way goodbye. I can't say I've enjoyed conversing with you...
BaconUprising wrote: Honestly through the medium of Dakka at least I don't seek to appeal to the "populace", I'm not on here to make friends.
I am not here with the purpose to make a friends either, but I would not mind if I do find any. And I see no reason to scare any such potential individuals away.
Haraldus as per usual is the most reasonable individual in the room on Dakka at 10pm.
You mean because he agrees with you? No I have no desire to spend any more time debating a pointless topic with either of you. Primordial my parting shot is that you cannot feasibly price an infantry sized model at much over 600 points. Your rules, next to all of them are ridiculous. And I mean most of them are utter crap. Almost everybody who has seen them agrees. You make the occasional decent set like the Argel Tal and Sanguinius rules but most of them plain and simple suck. You know the mechanics of the game so poorly I very much doubt you have ever played a game of 40k on your life. You would know how ridiculous your claims are if you had. Either way goodbye. I can't say I've enjoyed conversing with you...
No because he's not being insulting anyone, or attempting to stand on a pulpit and preach to me like you are.
That's it.
Proposed rule.
Crusader: Whenever victory appears to be eminent to an army with the Emperor as an HQ, the Emperor is removed from the table to return to Terra with no explanation. Replace the Emperor model with the opposition army HQ, and the opponent gains half the Emperor's remaining forces.
The Emperor of Mankind
WS8 BS8 S6 T6 W5 I6 A5 Ld10 Sv2+
Unit type: Infantry (character)
Wargear:
-The Burning Blade S+2 AP1 Melee, Force
-The Eagles Talon Sx2 AP3 Melee, Shred, Force
-The Armor Aquilla - 2+ armor save, 3+ invulnerable save
Special Rules:
- God Emperor (Eternal Warrior, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Adamantium Will, Fearless, Fear) - Beacon of Light - All friendly Imperial models (Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, Inquisition, or Imperial Guard) that can draw line of sight to the Emperor have the Fearless special rule. Otherwise, all friendly models within 24" gain +1 Leadership.
- A God Among Men - The Emperor of Man is perhaps the most powerful Psyker in the galaxy. In normal games of Warhammer 40,000 (regardless of whether or not Escalation is being used), the Emperor is Mastery Level 5 and may choose his powers from any Discipline in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and passes any Deny the Witch rolls on a 2+. This roll may also be used against any psychic ability or effect of a psychic ability that reduces his stats. The Emperor may use any spell multiple times per turn, bypassing any usual restriction on using the same power multiple times in a phase or turn. In addition, the Emperor rolls 4D6 and takes the two lowest results when taking a Leadership test. He is not affected by Perils of the Warp.
In games of Apocalypse, the Emperor is Mastery Level 6, counts all psychic powers as only costing 1 Warp Charge (except for the ones listed below), and can choose whether to pass or fail any Deny the Witch rolls and automatically denies any negative stat changes. He also has access to the following powers in addition to the Rulebook disciplines:
- Psychic Beam - Warp Charge 4 - A beam of pure energy streaks across the battlefield, vaporizing all but the most powerful monsters and machines. Psychic Beam is a beam with the following profile: R:24" SD AP1 Type: Assault 1, Blind
- The Emperor's Shield - Warp Charge 4 - A truly impervious bulwark against anything and everything, this wall of solidified psychic energy protects against even ship-based weaponry. The Emperor's Shield is a Blessing that affects the Emperor and his unit. While it is in effect, all weapons or negative effects used against the Emperor or his unit automatically miss, regardless of their source. If the Emperor uses the Gate of Infinity power, he does not scatter.
Additionally, the Emperor may choose to use his Warp Charges to modify his psychic powers. 1 Warp Charge can add +6" to the powers' range, +2S to the abilities strength (or, in the case of Psychic Shriek, make the roll 4D6), or -2 AP. If the ability grants bonuses such as cover or invulnerable saves, the save granted by the power is improved by 1. For instance, The Emperor could spend 2 Warp Charges to turn Molten Beam from its standard profile to R:18" S:10 AP1, making it cost 3 warp charges total. He could also spend 5 warp charges and simply increase its range to 42".
- The Anathema - All Chaos models have -1 Leadership. If they assault or are assaulted by the Emperor or his unit, they must take a Daemonic Instability test if the are from Codex: Chaos Daemons or a fear test is they are from Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This test is taken in spite of any rule that usually discounts a model from taking the test, such as Fearless or And They Shall Know No Fear.
McNinja wrote: The Emperor of Mankind
WS8 BS8 S6 T6 W5 I6 A5 Ld10 Sv2+
Unit type: Infantry (character)
Wargear:
-The Burning Blade S+2 AP1 Melee, Force
-The Eagles Talon Sx2 AP3 Melee, Shred, Force
-The Armor Aquilla - 2+ armor save, 3+ invulnerable save
Special Rules:
- God Emperor (Eternal Warrior, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Adamantium Will, Fearless, Fear) - Beacon of Light - All friendly Imperial models (Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, Inquisition, or Imperial Guard) that can draw line of sight to the Emperor have the Fearless special rule. Otherwise, all friendly models within 24" gain +1 Leadership.
- A God Among Men - The Emperor of Man is perhaps the most powerful Psyker in the galaxy. In normal games of Warhammer 40,000 (regardless of whether or not Escalation is being used), the Emperor is Mastery Level 5 and may choose his powers from any Discipline in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and passes any Deny the Witch rolls on a 2+. This roll may also be used against any psychic ability or effect of a psychic ability that reduces his stats. The Emperor may use any spell multiple times per turn, bypassing any usual restriction on using the same power multiple times in a phase or turn. In addition, the Emperor rolls 4D6 and takes the two lowest results when taking a Leadership test. He is not affected by Perils of the Warp.
In games of Apocalypse, the Emperor is Mastery Level 6, counts all psychic powers as only costing 1 Warp Charge (except for the ones listed below), and can choose whether to pass or fail any Deny the Witch rolls and automatically denies any negative stat changes. He also has access to the following powers in addition to the Rulebook disciplines:
- Psychic Beam - Warp Charge 4 - A beam of pure energy streaks across the battlefield, vaporizing all but the most powerful monsters and machines. Psychic Beam is a beam with the following profile: R:24" SD AP1 Type: Assault 1, Blind
- The Emperor's Shield - Warp Charge 4 - A truly impervious bulwark against anything and everything, this wall of solidified psychic energy protects against even ship-based weaponry. The Emperor's Shield is a Blessing that affects the Emperor and his unit. While it is in effect, all weapons or negative effects used against the Emperor or his unit automatically miss, regardless of their source. If the Emperor uses the Gate of Infinity power, he does not scatter.
Additionally, the Emperor may choose to use his Warp Charges to modify his psychic powers. 1 Warp Charge can add +6" to the powers' range, +2S to the abilities strength (or, in the case of Psychic Shriek, make the roll 4D6), or -2 AP. If the ability grants bonuses such as cover or invulnerable saves, the save granted by the power is improved by 1. For instance, The Emperor could spend 2 Warp Charges to turn Molten Beam from its standard profile to R:18" S:10 AP1, making it cost 3 warp charges total. He could also spend 5 warp charges and simply increase its range to 42".
- The Anathema - All Chaos models have -1 Leadership. If they assault or are assaulted by the Emperor or his unit, they must take a Daemonic Instability test if the are from Codex: Chaos Daemons or a fear test is they are from Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This test is taken in spite of any rule that usually discounts a model from taking the test, such as Fearless or And They Shall Know No Fear.
Ok this is amongst the worst Emperor rule sets we've seen.
God dang the Primarchs are more durable AND better at melee. The one thing done remotely right is the fact he has unique powers.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daba wrote: He would be S and T3, but always have access to that Biomancy power that increases his S and T.
When the Primarchs were born from him?
That just doesn't make any kind of sense fluff wise.
McNinja wrote: The Emperor of Mankind
WS8 BS8 S6 T6 W5 I6 A5 Ld10 Sv2+
Unit type: Infantry (character)
Wargear:
-The Burning Blade S+2 AP1 Melee, Force
-The Eagles Talon Sx2 AP3 Melee, Shred, Force
-The Armor Aquilla - 2+ armor save, 3+ invulnerable save
Special Rules:
- God Emperor (Eternal Warrior, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Adamantium Will, Fearless, Fear) - Beacon of Light - All friendly Imperial models (Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, Inquisition, or Imperial Guard) that can draw line of sight to the Emperor have the Fearless special rule. Otherwise, all friendly models within 24" gain +1 Leadership.
- A God Among Men - The Emperor of Man is perhaps the most powerful Psyker in the galaxy. In normal games of Warhammer 40,000 (regardless of whether or not Escalation is being used), the Emperor is Mastery Level 5 and may choose his powers from any Discipline in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and passes any Deny the Witch rolls on a 2+. This roll may also be used against any psychic ability or effect of a psychic ability that reduces his stats. The Emperor may use any spell multiple times per turn, bypassing any usual restriction on using the same power multiple times in a phase or turn. In addition, the Emperor rolls 4D6 and takes the two lowest results when taking a Leadership test. He is not affected by Perils of the Warp.
In games of Apocalypse, the Emperor is Mastery Level 6, counts all psychic powers as only costing 1 Warp Charge (except for the ones listed below), and can choose whether to pass or fail any Deny the Witch rolls and automatically denies any negative stat changes. He also has access to the following powers in addition to the Rulebook disciplines:
- Psychic Beam - Warp Charge 4 - A beam of pure energy streaks across the battlefield, vaporizing all but the most powerful monsters and machines. Psychic Beam is a beam with the following profile: R:24" SD AP1 Type: Assault 1, Blind
- The Emperor's Shield - Warp Charge 4 - A truly impervious bulwark against anything and everything, this wall of solidified psychic energy protects against even ship-based weaponry. The Emperor's Shield is a Blessing that affects the Emperor and his unit. While it is in effect, all weapons or negative effects used against the Emperor or his unit automatically miss, regardless of their source. If the Emperor uses the Gate of Infinity power, he does not scatter.
Additionally, the Emperor may choose to use his Warp Charges to modify his psychic powers. 1 Warp Charge can add +6" to the powers' range, +2S to the abilities strength (or, in the case of Psychic Shriek, make the roll 4D6), or -2 AP. If the ability grants bonuses such as cover or invulnerable saves, the save granted by the power is improved by 1. For instance, The Emperor could spend 2 Warp Charges to turn Molten Beam from its standard profile to R:18" S:10 AP1, making it cost 3 warp charges total. He could also spend 5 warp charges and simply increase its range to 42".
- The Anathema - All Chaos models have -1 Leadership. If they assault or are assaulted by the Emperor or his unit, they must take a Daemonic Instability test if the are from Codex: Chaos Daemons or a fear test is they are from Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This test is taken in spite of any rule that usually discounts a model from taking the test, such as Fearless or And They Shall Know No Fear.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
How dare you go onto someone else's thread, completely take it over with you own appalling rules set and then announce to everybody that the must follow your set of rules. You have an awfully high opinion of yourself for someone who can't make rules for sh**t.
McNinja wrote: The Emperor of Mankind
WS8 BS8 S6 T6 W5 I6 A5 Ld10 Sv2+
Unit type: Infantry (character)
Wargear:
-The Burning Blade S+2 AP1 Melee, Force
-The Eagles Talon Sx2 AP3 Melee, Shred, Force
-The Armor Aquilla - 2+ armor save, 3+ invulnerable save
Special Rules:
- God Emperor (Eternal Warrior, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Adamantium Will, Fearless, Fear) - Beacon of Light - All friendly Imperial models (Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, Inquisition, or Imperial Guard) that can draw line of sight to the Emperor have the Fearless special rule. Otherwise, all friendly models within 24" gain +1 Leadership.
- A God Among Men - The Emperor of Man is perhaps the most powerful Psyker in the galaxy. In normal games of Warhammer 40,000 (regardless of whether or not Escalation is being used), the Emperor is Mastery Level 5 and may choose his powers from any Discipline in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and passes any Deny the Witch rolls on a 2+. This roll may also be used against any psychic ability or effect of a psychic ability that reduces his stats. The Emperor may use any spell multiple times per turn, bypassing any usual restriction on using the same power multiple times in a phase or turn. In addition, the Emperor rolls 4D6 and takes the two lowest results when taking a Leadership test. He is not affected by Perils of the Warp.
In games of Apocalypse, the Emperor is Mastery Level 6, counts all psychic powers as only costing 1 Warp Charge (except for the ones listed below), and can choose whether to pass or fail any Deny the Witch rolls and automatically denies any negative stat changes. He also has access to the following powers in addition to the Rulebook disciplines:
- Psychic Beam - Warp Charge 4 - A beam of pure energy streaks across the battlefield, vaporizing all but the most powerful monsters and machines. Psychic Beam is a beam with the following profile: R:24" SD AP1 Type: Assault 1, Blind
- The Emperor's Shield - Warp Charge 4 - A truly impervious bulwark against anything and everything, this wall of solidified psychic energy protects against even ship-based weaponry. The Emperor's Shield is a Blessing that affects the Emperor and his unit. While it is in effect, all weapons or negative effects used against the Emperor or his unit automatically miss, regardless of their source. If the Emperor uses the Gate of Infinity power, he does not scatter.
Additionally, the Emperor may choose to use his Warp Charges to modify his psychic powers. 1 Warp Charge can add +6" to the powers' range, +2S to the abilities strength (or, in the case of Psychic Shriek, make the roll 4D6), or -2 AP. If the ability grants bonuses such as cover or invulnerable saves, the save granted by the power is improved by 1. For instance, The Emperor could spend 2 Warp Charges to turn Molten Beam from its standard profile to R:18" S:10 AP1, making it cost 3 warp charges total. He could also spend 5 warp charges and simply increase its range to 42".
- The Anathema - All Chaos models have -1 Leadership. If they assault or are assaulted by the Emperor or his unit, they must take a Daemonic Instability test if the are from Codex: Chaos Daemons or a fear test is they are from Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This test is taken in spite of any rule that usually discounts a model from taking the test, such as Fearless or And They Shall Know No Fear.
Ok this is amongst the worst Emperor rule sets we've seen.
God dang the Primarchs are more durable AND better at melee. The one thing done remotely right is the fact he has unique powers.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
God dang the Primarchs are more durable AND better at melee.
Yes, almost like they were designed by a supergenius who actually needed them, instead of being capable of doing everything better by himself.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
Nope. That might be your interpretation and you're entitled to it, but it doesn't mean that others are automatically wrong.
When the Primarchs were born from him?
That just doesn't make any kind of sense fluff wise.
It makes perfect sense. He engineered the Primarchs because he needed superhuman warriors to fight for him. Doctor Frankenstein wasn't physically stronger than the monster he created nor could Henry Ford outrun model T.
God dang the Primarchs are more durable AND better at melee.
Yes, almost like they were designed by a supergenius who actually needed them, instead of being capable of doing everything better by himself.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
Nope. That might be your interpretation and you're entitled to it, but it doesn't mean that others are automatically wrong.
When the Primarchs were born from him?
That just doesn't make any kind of sense fluff wise.
It makes perfect sense. He engineered the Primarchs because he needed superhuman warriors to fight for him. Doctor Frankenstein wasn't physically stronger than the monster he created nor could Henry Ford outrun model T.
I agree with you somewhat. He was however stronger than the primarchs but only due to his psychics abilities. In terms of combat ability I believe some of the primarchs were better.
God dang the Primarchs are more durable AND better at melee.
Yes, almost like they were designed by a supergenius who actually needed them, instead of being capable of doing everything better by himself.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
Nope. That might be your interpretation and you're entitled to it, but it doesn't mean that others are automatically wrong.
When the Primarchs were born from him?
That just doesn't make any kind of sense fluff wise.
It makes perfect sense. He engineered the Primarchs because he needed superhuman warriors to fight for him. Doctor Frankenstein wasn't physically stronger than the monster he created nor could Henry Ford outrun model T.
Or hear me out on this......
He needed generals to rule these legions. Mostly in his absence.
Which is the actual reason given.
McNinja wrote: The Emperor of Mankind
WS8 BS8 S6 T6 W5 I6 A5 Ld10 Sv2+
Unit type: Infantry (character)
Wargear:
-The Burning Blade S+2 AP1 Melee, Force
-The Eagles Talon Sx2 AP3 Melee, Shred, Force
-The Armor Aquilla - 2+ armor save, 3+ invulnerable save
Special Rules:
- God Emperor (Eternal Warrior, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Adamantium Will, Fearless, Fear) - Beacon of Light - All friendly Imperial models (Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, Inquisition, or Imperial Guard) that can draw line of sight to the Emperor have the Fearless special rule. Otherwise, all friendly models within 24" gain +1 Leadership.
- A God Among Men - The Emperor of Man is perhaps the most powerful Psyker in the galaxy. In normal games of Warhammer 40,000 (regardless of whether or not Escalation is being used), the Emperor is Mastery Level 5 and may choose his powers from any Discipline in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and passes any Deny the Witch rolls on a 2+. This roll may also be used against any psychic ability or effect of a psychic ability that reduces his stats. The Emperor may use any spell multiple times per turn, bypassing any usual restriction on using the same power multiple times in a phase or turn. In addition, the Emperor rolls 4D6 and takes the two lowest results when taking a Leadership test. He is not affected by Perils of the Warp.
In games of Apocalypse, the Emperor is Mastery Level 6, counts all psychic powers as only costing 1 Warp Charge (except for the ones listed below), and can choose whether to pass or fail any Deny the Witch rolls and automatically denies any negative stat changes. He also has access to the following powers in addition to the Rulebook disciplines:
- Psychic Beam - Warp Charge 4 - A beam of pure energy streaks across the battlefield, vaporizing all but the most powerful monsters and machines. Psychic Beam is a beam with the following profile: R:24" SD AP1 Type: Assault 1, Blind
- The Emperor's Shield - Warp Charge 4 - A truly impervious bulwark against anything and everything, this wall of solidified psychic energy protects against even ship-based weaponry. The Emperor's Shield is a Blessing that affects the Emperor and his unit. While it is in effect, all weapons or negative effects used against the Emperor or his unit automatically miss, regardless of their source. If the Emperor uses the Gate of Infinity power, he does not scatter.
Additionally, the Emperor may choose to use his Warp Charges to modify his psychic powers. 1 Warp Charge can add +6" to the powers' range, +2S to the abilities strength (or, in the case of Psychic Shriek, make the roll 4D6), or -2 AP. If the ability grants bonuses such as cover or invulnerable saves, the save granted by the power is improved by 1. For instance, The Emperor could spend 2 Warp Charges to turn Molten Beam from its standard profile to R:18" S:10 AP1, making it cost 3 warp charges total. He could also spend 5 warp charges and simply increase its range to 42".
- The Anathema - All Chaos models have -1 Leadership. If they assault or are assaulted by the Emperor or his unit, they must take a Daemonic Instability test if the are from Codex: Chaos Daemons or a fear test is they are from Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This test is taken in spite of any rule that usually discounts a model from taking the test, such as Fearless or And They Shall Know No Fear.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
How dare you go onto someone else's thread, completely take it over with you own appalling rules set and then announce to everybody that the must follow your set of rules. You have an awfully high opinion of yourself for someone who can't make rules for sh**t.
You're aware you're using the words "how dare you" on an Internet forum about toy soldiers?
Take over? The OP is nowhere to be found on the thread, and all I do is check up on the thread every 3 hours.
God dang the Primarchs are more durable AND better at melee.
Yes, almost like they were designed by a supergenius who actually needed them, instead of being capable of doing everything better by himself.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
Nope. That might be your interpretation and you're entitled to it, but it doesn't mean that others are automatically wrong.
When the Primarchs were born from him?
That just doesn't make any kind of sense fluff wise.
It makes perfect sense. He engineered the Primarchs because he needed superhuman warriors to fight for him. Doctor Frankenstein wasn't physically stronger than the monster he created nor could Henry Ford outrun model T.
Or hear me out on this......
He needed generals to rule these legions. Mostly in his absence.
Which is the actual reason given.
McNinja wrote: The Emperor of Mankind
WS8 BS8 S6 T6 W5 I6 A5 Ld10 Sv2+
Unit type: Infantry (character)
Wargear:
-The Burning Blade S+2 AP1 Melee, Force
-The Eagles Talon Sx2 AP3 Melee, Shred, Force
-The Armor Aquilla - 2+ armor save, 3+ invulnerable save
Special Rules:
- God Emperor (Eternal Warrior, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Adamantium Will, Fearless, Fear) - Beacon of Light - All friendly Imperial models (Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, Inquisition, or Imperial Guard) that can draw line of sight to the Emperor have the Fearless special rule. Otherwise, all friendly models within 24" gain +1 Leadership.
- A God Among Men - The Emperor of Man is perhaps the most powerful Psyker in the galaxy. In normal games of Warhammer 40,000 (regardless of whether or not Escalation is being used), the Emperor is Mastery Level 5 and may choose his powers from any Discipline in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and passes any Deny the Witch rolls on a 2+. This roll may also be used against any psychic ability or effect of a psychic ability that reduces his stats. The Emperor may use any spell multiple times per turn, bypassing any usual restriction on using the same power multiple times in a phase or turn. In addition, the Emperor rolls 4D6 and takes the two lowest results when taking a Leadership test. He is not affected by Perils of the Warp.
In games of Apocalypse, the Emperor is Mastery Level 6, counts all psychic powers as only costing 1 Warp Charge (except for the ones listed below), and can choose whether to pass or fail any Deny the Witch rolls and automatically denies any negative stat changes. He also has access to the following powers in addition to the Rulebook disciplines:
- Psychic Beam - Warp Charge 4 - A beam of pure energy streaks across the battlefield, vaporizing all but the most powerful monsters and machines. Psychic Beam is a beam with the following profile: R:24" SD AP1 Type: Assault 1, Blind
- The Emperor's Shield - Warp Charge 4 - A truly impervious bulwark against anything and everything, this wall of solidified psychic energy protects against even ship-based weaponry. The Emperor's Shield is a Blessing that affects the Emperor and his unit. While it is in effect, all weapons or negative effects used against the Emperor or his unit automatically miss, regardless of their source. If the Emperor uses the Gate of Infinity power, he does not scatter.
Additionally, the Emperor may choose to use his Warp Charges to modify his psychic powers. 1 Warp Charge can add +6" to the powers' range, +2S to the abilities strength (or, in the case of Psychic Shriek, make the roll 4D6), or -2 AP. If the ability grants bonuses such as cover or invulnerable saves, the save granted by the power is improved by 1. For instance, The Emperor could spend 2 Warp Charges to turn Molten Beam from its standard profile to R:18" S:10 AP1, making it cost 3 warp charges total. He could also spend 5 warp charges and simply increase its range to 42".
- The Anathema - All Chaos models have -1 Leadership. If they assault or are assaulted by the Emperor or his unit, they must take a Daemonic Instability test if the are from Codex: Chaos Daemons or a fear test is they are from Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This test is taken in spite of any rule that usually discounts a model from taking the test, such as Fearless or And They Shall Know No Fear.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
How dare you go onto someone else's thread, completely take it over with you own appalling rules set and then announce to everybody that the must follow your set of rules. You have an awfully high opinion of yourself for someone who can't make rules for sh**t.
You're aware you're using the words "how dare you" on an Internet forum about toy soldiers?
Take over? The OP is nowhere to be found on the thread, and all I do is check up on the thread every 3 hours.
It's not the subject matter that's the issue, it's your lack of common courtesy and ability to socially interact. Normal people "check" their threads by looking at them and responding to comments. You consistently post shinning comments begging for feedback which you then dispute unless it is entirely positive.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In addition at least I am commenting about a game I actually used to play. I have good reason to believe that you have never actually played a game of 40/30k in your life. You have next to no knowledge of any proper tactics and clearly have no idea about game mechanics. If you did you wouldn't make such ridiculous rules...
God dang the Primarchs are more durable AND better at melee.
Yes, almost like they were designed by a supergenius who actually needed them, instead of being capable of doing everything better by himself.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
Nope. That might be your interpretation and you're entitled to it, but it doesn't mean that others are automatically wrong.
When the Primarchs were born from him?
That just doesn't make any kind of sense fluff wise.
It makes perfect sense. He engineered the Primarchs because he needed superhuman warriors to fight for him. Doctor Frankenstein wasn't physically stronger than the monster he created nor could Henry Ford outrun model T.
Or hear me out on this......
He needed generals to rule these legions. Mostly in his absence.
Which is the actual reason given.
McNinja wrote: The Emperor of Mankind
WS8 BS8 S6 T6 W5 I6 A5 Ld10 Sv2+
Unit type: Infantry (character)
Wargear:
-The Burning Blade S+2 AP1 Melee, Force
-The Eagles Talon Sx2 AP3 Melee, Shred, Force
-The Armor Aquilla - 2+ armor save, 3+ invulnerable save
Special Rules:
- God Emperor (Eternal Warrior, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Adamantium Will, Fearless, Fear) - Beacon of Light - All friendly Imperial models (Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, Inquisition, or Imperial Guard) that can draw line of sight to the Emperor have the Fearless special rule. Otherwise, all friendly models within 24" gain +1 Leadership.
- A God Among Men - The Emperor of Man is perhaps the most powerful Psyker in the galaxy. In normal games of Warhammer 40,000 (regardless of whether or not Escalation is being used), the Emperor is Mastery Level 5 and may choose his powers from any Discipline in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and passes any Deny the Witch rolls on a 2+. This roll may also be used against any psychic ability or effect of a psychic ability that reduces his stats. The Emperor may use any spell multiple times per turn, bypassing any usual restriction on using the same power multiple times in a phase or turn. In addition, the Emperor rolls 4D6 and takes the two lowest results when taking a Leadership test. He is not affected by Perils of the Warp.
In games of Apocalypse, the Emperor is Mastery Level 6, counts all psychic powers as only costing 1 Warp Charge (except for the ones listed below), and can choose whether to pass or fail any Deny the Witch rolls and automatically denies any negative stat changes. He also has access to the following powers in addition to the Rulebook disciplines:
- Psychic Beam - Warp Charge 4 - A beam of pure energy streaks across the battlefield, vaporizing all but the most powerful monsters and machines. Psychic Beam is a beam with the following profile: R:24" SD AP1 Type: Assault 1, Blind
- The Emperor's Shield - Warp Charge 4 - A truly impervious bulwark against anything and everything, this wall of solidified psychic energy protects against even ship-based weaponry. The Emperor's Shield is a Blessing that affects the Emperor and his unit. While it is in effect, all weapons or negative effects used against the Emperor or his unit automatically miss, regardless of their source. If the Emperor uses the Gate of Infinity power, he does not scatter.
Additionally, the Emperor may choose to use his Warp Charges to modify his psychic powers. 1 Warp Charge can add +6" to the powers' range, +2S to the abilities strength (or, in the case of Psychic Shriek, make the roll 4D6), or -2 AP. If the ability grants bonuses such as cover or invulnerable saves, the save granted by the power is improved by 1. For instance, The Emperor could spend 2 Warp Charges to turn Molten Beam from its standard profile to R:18" S:10 AP1, making it cost 3 warp charges total. He could also spend 5 warp charges and simply increase its range to 42".
- The Anathema - All Chaos models have -1 Leadership. If they assault or are assaulted by the Emperor or his unit, they must take a Daemonic Instability test if the are from Codex: Chaos Daemons or a fear test is they are from Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This test is taken in spite of any rule that usually discounts a model from taking the test, such as Fearless or And They Shall Know No Fear.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
How dare you go onto someone else's thread, completely take it over with you own appalling rules set and then announce to everybody that the must follow your set of rules. You have an awfully high opinion of yourself for someone who can't make rules for sh**t.
You're aware you're using the words "how dare you" on an Internet forum about toy soldiers?
Take over? The OP is nowhere to be found on the thread, and all I do is check up on the thread every 3 hours.
It's not the subject matter that's the issue, it's your lack of common courtesy and ability to socially interact. Normal people "check" their threads by looking at them and responding to comments. You consistently post shinning comments begging for feedback which you then dispute unless it is entirely positive.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In addition at least I am commenting about a game I actually used to play. I have good reason to believe that you have never actually played a game of 40/30k in your
life. You have next to no knowledge of any proper tactics and clearly have no idea about game mechanics. If you did you wouldn't make such ridiculous rules...
YOU are talking to anyone about common courtesy and social interaction?
Have you noticed the way you act around others?
How venemous and rude you are?
Regardless I only refute things around 50% of the time. The other percentage is making changes.
This thread is fast dissolving into petty threats being thrown around.
Anyway show me an example of my "venom and rudeness". This comes from the man (most likely boy) who has received consistent censoring by MOD's for his poor forum etiquette and poor treatment of other users. How many of your threads have now been closed?
There is a line between not looking for friends and "venom" you seem to miss it.
You have still failed to address or comment on your lack of knowledge on game tactics and mechanics. Would you mind explaining to me which army you use. Or perhaps describe to me the format of a turn in 40k...
Ok this is amongst the worst Emperor rule sets we've seen.
God dang the Primarchs are more durable AND better at melee. The one thing done remotely right is the fact he has unique powers.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
In addition at least I am commenting about a game I actually used to play. I have good reason to believe that you have never actually played a game of 40/30k in your life. You have next to no knowledge of any proper tactics and clearly have no idea about game mechanics. If you did you wouldn't make such ridiculous rules...
In addition at least I am commenting about a game I actually used to play. I have good reason to believe that you have never actually played a game of 40/30k in your
life. You have next to no knowledge of any proper tactics and clearly have no idea about game mechanics. If you did you wouldn't make such ridiculous rules...
YOU are talking to anyone about common courtesy and social interaction?
Have you noticed the way you act around others?
How venemous and rude you are?
Regardless I only refute things around 50% of the time. The other percentage is making changes.
Everyone. Please. Yes, I understand you disagree heavily with one another. But your disagreements are rooted in the arguments of the opposition, not the members of the opposition. You share different views on ideal Emperor rules, but neither can just proclaim the other as wrong or inferior in an entirely subjective topic. Most important of all, please please please remain civil and polite. Seeing where this thread has gone to makes me sad. I do not think any of you are bad people, or that your actual core arguments should be disqualified. But words like these will not help. Harshness will only lead to more harshness. Respect one another. Lay down your arms, you are not as different as you think.
Sorry for the white knighting, but I really had to say this.
McNinja wrote: Hey, I know getting threads locked because of an online pissing match is fun, but some people actually want logical emperor rules, and none of your bs is helping. I'll post up up when I get on a laptop.
What do you think of my rules?
1st page 20th post.
Anything is appreciated.
Spoiler:
Whipped this up in my spare time. The basic concept is every primarch inheriting something from the Emperor. Like Mortarion's toughness, Angron's strength, or Magnus' psychic ability.
1500 points
WS:8/ BS:8/ S:7/ T:7/ W:7/ I:7/ A:6/ LD:10/ SV: 2+/ 3++ The Emperor's gifts lay mainly in the mind, not the body
Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 6, Unique Powers, Master of Mankind, Master of the Astartes, Primarch, Like Unto A God
Wargear: Interminatus Conquestum, The Aquilla's Grasp, Armor of the Emperor
Powers
The Emperor may not use BRB powers and instead only uses these powers.
+Blood of Golgotha: Witchfire/ Cost:4/ S:7, AP:3/ Assault 6d6/ Range: 36 inches
+Devastation Maelstrom: Witchfire/ Cost:6/ S:10, AP:1/ 10inch blast, MC, Psyfire/ Range: 36 inchesWhat is MC? Master-crafted?
+Wave of Withering: Witchfire/ Cost: 6/ S: D, AP:1/ Hellstorm Template
+Adamantium Arm: Blessing/ Cost: 2/ Target: The Emperor/ Target gains an additional d3 strength and toughness, 1 additional attack, and a 5+ FNP/ 1 turn durationWhy not just have him know Warp Speed, Endurance, and Iron Arm?
+Blessings of the Emperor: Blessing/ Cost: 2/ Target: 1 friendly unit within 24 inches the Emperor has line of sight to/ Target unit gains an additional point of Strength, Toughness, and Initiative, a 5+ FNP, and MC to all their attacks../ Duration: 1 turnBlessings already last one turn, you don't need to specify.
+Transliminal Stride: ?/ Cost: 2/ The Emperor makes a fiery enhanced charge, moving in any direction in a straight line 18 inches/ Models that fall in the path (the straight line, it could be drawn with erasable marker) of this charge are hit with a S:10 AP:1 hit.Why does he have this? This is a C'tan ability, I don't think the Emperor every Fire Charged an enemy...
Army Buffing Rules
=Master of the Astartes: The Emperor can grant any 3 vanilla tactical marine squads any set of legion special rules. These squads are chosen at the beginning of the game.
=Master of Mankind: The Emperor can grant any 2 units Perfect Deepstriking (do not scatter when deep striked). These are chosen at the beginning of the game.
Wargear
***Interminatus Conquestum: The Emperor's name to the Burning Blade. The Emperor is not affected by incandescent. In short this is the Burning Blade without the Incandescent special rule. Making him hit at S10 AP2. I'm only bringing this up because it should be drived from psychic powers, not necessarily his weapon
***Aquilla's Grasp: S:As User/ AP:2/ Succesful Unsaved wounds caused by this weapon result in the affected permanently losing 1 S, T, & I.Why? This just seems like an attempt to one-up Horus' weapon. You don't need to do that, that's not the point of the Emperor
General Special Rules
-Like Unto A God: The Emperor ignores perils of the warp on a 4+, Possesses a 3+ DTW, Models attempting to deny the Emperor's powers have -1 to their DTW (No ballsy guardsmen getting lucky), Ignores Shadows in the Warp, and may not be turned into a Chaos Spawn or Daemonic Herals under any circumstances.I forgot about DtW against the Emperor's powers in my rules. However, he should auto-pass (or pass on 2+) DtW and not be affected by PotW.
-Immortal: The Emperor does not take multiple wounds from S: D hits, instead only taking one under any circumstances. The Emperor may also attempt to heal two wounds per turn with his IWND.
ThePrimordial wrote:
McNinja wrote: The Emperor of Mankind
WS8 BS8 S6 T6 W5 I6 A5 Ld10 Sv2+
Unit type: Infantry (character)
Wargear:
-The Burning Blade S+2 AP1 Melee, Force
-The Eagles Talon Sx2 AP3 Melee, Shred, Force
-The Armor Aquilla - 2+ armor save, 3+ invulnerable save
Special Rules:
- God Emperor (Eternal Warrior, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Adamantium Will, Fearless, Fear) - Beacon of Light - All friendly Imperial models (Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, Inquisition, or Imperial Guard) that can draw line of sight to the Emperor have the Fearless special rule. Otherwise, all friendly models within 24" gain +1 Leadership.
- A God Among Men - The Emperor of Man is perhaps the most powerful Psyker in the galaxy. In normal games of Warhammer 40,000 (regardless of whether or not Escalation is being used), the Emperor is Mastery Level 5 and may choose his powers from any Discipline in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and passes any Deny the Witch rolls on a 2+. This roll may also be used against any psychic ability or effect of a psychic ability that reduces his stats. The Emperor may use any spell multiple times per turn, bypassing any usual restriction on using the same power multiple times in a phase or turn. In addition, the Emperor rolls 4D6 and takes the two lowest results when taking a Leadership test. He is not affected by Perils of the Warp.
In games of Apocalypse, the Emperor is Mastery Level 6, counts all psychic powers as only costing 1 Warp Charge (except for the ones listed below), and can choose whether to pass or fail any Deny the Witch rolls and automatically denies any negative stat changes. He also has access to the following powers in addition to the Rulebook disciplines:
- Psychic Beam - Warp Charge 4 - A beam of pure energy streaks across the battlefield, vaporizing all but the most powerful monsters and machines. Psychic Beam is a beam with the following profile: R:24" SD AP1 Type: Assault 1, Blind
- The Emperor's Shield - Warp Charge 4 - A truly impervious bulwark against anything and everything, this wall of solidified psychic energy protects against even ship-based weaponry. The Emperor's Shield is a Blessing that affects the Emperor and his unit. While it is in effect, all weapons or negative effects used against the Emperor or his unit automatically miss, regardless of their source. If the Emperor uses the Gate of Infinity power, he does not scatter.
Additionally, the Emperor may choose to use his Warp Charges to modify his psychic powers. 1 Warp Charge can add +6" to the powers' range, +2S to the abilities strength (or, in the case of Psychic Shriek, make the roll 4D6), or -2 AP. If the ability grants bonuses such as cover or invulnerable saves, the save granted by the power is improved by 1. For instance, The Emperor could spend 2 Warp Charges to turn Molten Beam from its standard profile to R:18" S:10 AP1, making it cost 3 warp charges total. He could also spend 5 warp charges and simply increase its range to 42".
- The Anathema - All Chaos models have -1 Leadership. If they assault or are assaulted by the Emperor or his unit, they must take a Daemonic Instability test if the are from Codex: Chaos Daemons or a fear test is they are from Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This test is taken in spite of any rule that usually discounts a model from taking the test, such as Fearless or And They Shall Know No Fear.
Ok this is amongst the worst Emperor rule sets we've seen.
God dang the Primarchs are more durable AND better at melee. The one thing done remotely right is the fact he has unique powers.
Here's a rule for you all: He needs to be the next level up from primarchs. This means 7s in everything.
This is incredibly rude and uncalled for. You are not, and never will be, the sole authority on Emperor stats. Get off your high horse and show a little fething respect.
And no, it doesn't mean 7s in everything. As powerful as he was, he got his ass handed to him by a giant Ork. If anything, he would have access to all BRB powers, including all of the Biomancy powers, which would then increase his speed and strength.
Admittedly Urlakk Urg was the second hardest and most infamous Ork ever. Only The Beast can compete for the spot. He didn't "get his ass handed to him" either really honestly; it says he was killed by the Emperor and Horus, as the Ork tried to "crush the life" out of the Emperor. The fight could well have been rather even, and since we do not know just how powerful said Ork was (Clearly rather strong, since it took the Emperor and Horus to defeat him) we can't really use him as a basis to judge the Emperor's stats.
That Ork could well have been a S8 T8 W8 A8 monster. Who knows?
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Admittedly Urlakk Urg was the second hardest and most infamous Ork ever. Only The Beast can compete for the spot. He didn't "get his ass handed to him" either really honestly; it says he was killed by the Emperor and Horus, as the Ork tried to "crush the life" out of the Emperor. The fight could well have been rather even, and since we do not know just how powerful said Ork was (Clearly rather strong, since it took the Emperor and Horus to defeat him) we can't really use him as a basis to judge the Emperor's stats.
That Ork could well have been a S8 T8 W8 A8 monster. Who knows?
It was merely an ork strangling the Emperor, it didn't take them both to kill it. The Emperor was dying Horus jus killed it.
Well there was that condensed super nova laser, and beating the snot out of the void dragon who withstood planet busting hits. So yeah he did.
That ork was the size of a soul grinder and empowered by a waagh the size of the eastern fringe of the galaxy.
Where are these stories from? I'd like to read them!
Well there was that condensed super nova laser, and beating the snot out of the void dragon who withstood planet busting hits. So yeah he did.
That ork was the size of a soul grinder and empowered by a waagh the size of the eastern fringe of the galaxy.
Where are these stories from? I'd like to read them!
They don't exist. Why don't you go ahead and cite exactly where it says that the ork was "the size of a soulgrinder". Your statement that the waaagh was the size of the eastern fringe is erroneous as well. The largest recorded waaagh in the galaxies history was Ghazghkull Thrakka's waaagh on Amaggedon. It was not even a fraction of that size.
It was only the Emperor, his forces, Horus and the poorly trained prototype Luna Wolves fighting them. Do you honestly think they would have been capable of fighting off a waaagh "the size of the eastern fringe of the galaxy"?
Well there was that condensed super nova laser, and beating the snot out of the void dragon who withstood planet busting hits. So yeah he did.
That ork was the size of a soul grinder and empowered by a waagh the size of the eastern fringe of the galaxy.
Where are these stories from? I'd like to read them!
They don't exist. Why don't you go ahead and cite exactly where it says that the ork was "the size of a soulgrinder". Your statement that the waaagh was the size of the eastern fringe is erroneous as well. The largest recorded waaagh in the galaxies history was Ghazghkull Thrakka's waaagh on Amaggedon. It was not even a fraction of that size.
It was only the Emperor, his forces, Horus and the poorly trained prototype Luna Wolves fighting them. Do you honestly think they would have been capable of fighting off a waaagh "the size of the eastern fringe of the galaxy"?
XXXX
You should really ensure that your own statements are correct before you dispute the validity of others, however. Ghazghkull's Waaagh! is not even close to the largest ever.
Well there was that condensed super nova laser, and beating the snot out of the void dragon who withstood planet busting hits. So yeah he did.
That ork was the size of a soul grinder and empowered by a waagh the size of the eastern fringe of the galaxy.
Where are these stories from? I'd like to read them!
They don't exist. Why don't you go ahead and cite exactly where it says that the ork was "the size of a soulgrinder". Your statement that the waaagh was the size of the eastern fringe is erroneous as well. The largest recorded waaagh in the galaxies history was Ghazghkull Thrakka's waaagh on Amaggedon. It was not even a fraction of that size.
It was only the Emperor, his forces, Horus and the poorly trained prototype Luna Wolves fighting them. Do you honestly think they would have been capable of fighting off a waaagh "the size of the eastern fringe of the galaxy"?
XXXX
You should really ensure that your own statements are correct before you dispute the validity of others, however. Ghazghkull's Waaagh! is not even close to the largest ever.
I'm afraid it is you who needs to brush up on your knowledge of 40k, Ghazghskulls second Waaagh has been sited by a variety of sources, including white dwarf as the largest waaagh ever. Not to mention the fact that Waaagh The Beast is only described as the largest Waaagh by Lexicanum as a source. Additionally Waaagh the beast predates The second War for Amaggedon. Therefore in the time period in which it was taken place it was the largest Waaagh ever yes, however as the second war for Amaggedon comes afterwards and is also described as the largest then we can infer that it is larger.
XXXX
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides this is not relevant to the original point. What he has just claimed is total crap that is never cited by a credible source. Therefore it has no bearing in the overall argument of how strong the Emperor should be.
Well there was that condensed super nova laser, and beating the snot out of the void dragon who withstood planet busting hits. So yeah he did.
That ork was the size of a soul grinder and empowered by a waagh the size of the eastern fringe of the galaxy.
Where are these stories from? I'd like to read them!
They don't exist. Why don't you go ahead and cite exactly where it says that the ork was "the size of a soulgrinder". Your statement that the waaagh was the size of the eastern fringe is erroneous as well. The largest recorded waaagh in the galaxies history was Ghazghkull Thrakka's waaagh on Amaggedon. It was not even a fraction of that size.
It was only the Emperor, his forces, Horus and the poorly trained prototype Luna Wolves fighting them. Do you honestly think they would have been capable of fighting off a waaagh "the size of the eastern fringe of the galaxy"?
XXXX
You should really ensure that your own statements are correct before you dispute the validity of others, however. Ghazghkull's Waaagh! is not even close to the largest ever.
I'm afraid it is you who needs to brush up on your knowledge of 40k, Ghazghskulls second Waaagh has been sited by a variety of sources, including white dwarf as the largest waaagh ever. Not to mention the fact that Waaagh The Beast is only described as the largest Waaagh by Lexicanum as a source. Additionally Waaagh the beast predates The second War for Amaggedon. Therefore in the time period in which it was taken place it was the largest Waaagh ever yes, however as the second war for Amaggedon comes afterwards and is also described as the largest then we can infer that it is larger.
XXXX
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides this is not relevant to the original point. What he has just claimed is total crap that is never cited by a credible source. Therefore it has no bearing in the overall argument of how strong the Emperor should be.
Except that The Beast's Waaagh! is sourced from the 6th ed rulebook. Lexicanum is just a go-between. Wikis are sometimes unreliable, but not when their sourcing is clear and you can just go check your rulebook to confirm it. The actual time that the Waaagh's took place is irrelevant since the piece is written from the perspective of the end of the 41st millennium. For all intends and purposes, the 6th edition rulebook retcons the WD. Plus, it's pretty obvious if you look at it. Armageddon is strategically important, and it is not the first planet Ghazghkull has attacked, but it is still just one planet. The Beast is described as nearly conquering the galaxy. They are in two different leagues altogether. Ghazghkull is often pointed out as potentially gathering the largest Waaagh! ever seen, but not that he has actually succeeded. Not in any publication more recent than the 6th ed rulebook. Now, are your 'variety of sources' more relevant? Do list them, please.
It might be irrelevant to the main topic, but I still feel the need to point it out when I see the pot calling the kettle black.
The way that piece is worded suggests that it is contained to that current time frame. While the 6ed rule book does overall WD it does not in any way directly counter it here so my point still stands. As for finding the sources, I have credited one in a white dwarf, they are many others spread across much of the detailing of the second war for Amaggedon. I personally can't be find them as I don't retain old WD's and rulebooks. There's a difference between my statement and The Primordials, his has never and is never backed up in any way and is utterly ludicrous. Mine is credible.
His argument, while seemingly unsourced, gains additional credibility the same way that my example gains a bit of its own.
Reason.
He stated two things, that the Ork was the size of a Soul Grinder and that the Waaagh was the size of half the galaxy.
Both are likely hyperbole, but not as much as you might think.
We know that larger Orks always are in charge. We know he must be pretty damn big, since he lorded over an empire that needed many Legions to crush. And Legions were massive concentrations of military force, not to mention their Adeptus Mechanicus, Custodes, Navy and Army support. From the sheer size and power of his empire, we can conclude that Urlakk Urg was pretty darn big indeed. Not the size of a soul grinder, perhaps, but still considerably larger than Ghazghkull or Snagrod, whose empires, considering their current performance, would doubtlessly crumble in the face of multiple Legions.
As for the size of his Waaagh!. Well, the outcome is described as 'Ork population in the Milky Way galaxy devastated'. To devastate the Ork population in the galaxy, by crushing one empire, said empire must be rather large, no?
Fluff discussions is only half throwing quotes at one another, you know. The other half is actually forming a picture out of the information we have, and drawing the most likely conclusions.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: His argument, while seemingly unsourced, gains additional credibility the same way that my example gains a bit of its own.
Reason.
He stated two things, that the Ork was the size of a Soul Grinder and that the Waaagh was the size of half the galaxy.
Both are likely hyperbole, but not as much as you might think.
We know that larger Orks always are in charge. We know he must be pretty damn big, since he lorded over an empire that needed many Legions to crush. And Legions were massive concentrations of military force, not to mention their Adeptus Mechanicus, Custodes, Navy and Army support. From the sheer size and power of his empire, we can conclude that Urlakk Urg was pretty darn big indeed. Not the size of a soul grinder, perhaps, but still considerably larger than Ghazghkull or Snagrod, whose empires, considering their current performance, would doubtlessly crumble in the face of multiple Legions.
As for the size of his Waaagh!. Well, the outcome is described as 'Ork population in the Milky Way galaxy devastated'. To devastate the Ork population in the galaxy, by crushing one empire, said empire must be rather large, no?
Fluff discussions is only half throwing quotes at one another, you know. The other half is actually forming a picture out of the information we have, and drawing the most likely conclusions.
It was a single legion that faced his Waaagh. Would you mind quoting the source about the orks in the Milky Way being devastated. I can't find it. The Waaagh did in fact crumble. It was utterly devastated in a single battle. The size of an orks Waaagh does not actually much impact the size of the ork. Rather the size of the orks around him. Therefore there is no way of saying that the ork was ever larger than Ghazghkull. As no source ever directly states the Orks exact size one cannot simply make claims that it is the size of a soulgrinder.
As for ork empires crumbling in the face of legions you would be surprised, there are several accounts of not particularly notable Orkney empires standing up to multiple legions. Warboss Overdogg Mashogg held up Leman Russ, his space wolves, the White Scars and the Great Khan and Perturabo+his iron warriors for a decent amount of time before he was eventually defeated. His Waaagh is never described as being of any significant size. In this case it is very doubtful that Ghazghkulls Waaagh would "crumble" as you put it against an attack by legions.
Furthermore I will point out that at this time the Luna Wolves (who were fighting) were comprised primarily of prototype space marines taken form the hyper violent gang scum of Horus' home planet (against their will) and so were not the super efficient fighting forces that the legions became known as.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: His argument, while seemingly unsourced, gains additional credibility the same way that my example gains a bit of its own.
Reason.
He stated two things, that the Ork was the size of a Soul Grinder and that the Waaagh was the size of half the galaxy.
Both are likely hyperbole, but not as much as you might think.
We know that larger Orks always are in charge. We know he must be pretty damn big, since he lorded over an empire that needed many Legions to crush. And Legions were massive concentrations of military force, not to mention their Adeptus Mechanicus, Custodes, Navy and Army support. From the sheer size and power of his empire, we can conclude that Urlakk Urg was pretty darn big indeed. Not the size of a soul grinder, perhaps, but still considerably larger than Ghazghkull or Snagrod, whose empires, considering their current performance, would doubtlessly crumble in the face of multiple Legions.
As for the size of his Waaagh!. Well, the outcome is described as 'Ork population in the Milky Way galaxy devastated'. To devastate the Ork population in the galaxy, by crushing one empire, said empire must be rather large, no?
Fluff discussions is only half throwing quotes at one another, you know. The other half is actually forming a picture out of the information we have, and drawing the most likely conclusions.
It was a single legion that faced his Waaagh. Would you mind quoting the source about the orks in the Milky Way being devastated. I can't find it. The Waaagh did in fact crumble. It was utterly devastated in a single battle. The size of an orks Waaagh does not actually much impact the size of the ork. Rather the size of the orks around him. Therefore there is no way of saying that the ork was ever larger than Ghazghkull. As no source ever directly states the Orks exact size one cannot simply make claims that it is the size of a soulgrinder.
As for ork empires crumbling in the face of legions you would be surprised, there are several accounts of not particularly notable Orkney empires standing up to multiple legions. Warboss Overdogg Mashogg held up Leman Russ, his space wolves, the White Scars and the Great Khan and Perturabo+his iron warriors for a decent amount of time before he was eventually defeated. His Waaagh is never described as being of any significant size. In this case it is very doubtful that Ghazghkulls Waaagh would "crumble" as you put it against an attack by legions.
Furthermore I will point out that at this time the Luna Wolves (who were fighting) were comprised primarily of prototype space marines taken form the hyper violent gang scum of Horus' home planet (against their will) and so were not the super efficient fighting forces that the legions became known as.
100,000 Astartes drawn from multiple Space Marine Legions including the Luna Wolves, Ultramarines and White Scars, 8 million Imperial Army troops, multiple Titan Legions, thousands of Imperial starships and millions of support personnel
Ork population in the Milky Way Galaxy devastated
Sources are at the bottom.
If it impacts the size of the Orks around him it must impact his own size as well. He must, after all, be larger than them to stay in charge.
It was not only Luna Wolves, as you can see above. It also had all kinds of support, including the Emperor himself and friends.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: His argument, while seemingly unsourced, gains additional credibility the same way that my example gains a bit of its own.
Reason.
He stated two things, that the Ork was the size of a Soul Grinder and that the Waaagh was the size of half the galaxy.
Both are likely hyperbole, but not as much as you might think.
We know that larger Orks always are in charge. We know he must be pretty damn big, since he lorded over an empire that needed many Legions to crush. And Legions were massive concentrations of military force, not to mention their Adeptus Mechanicus, Custodes, Navy and Army support. From the sheer size and power of his empire, we can conclude that Urlakk Urg was pretty darn big indeed. Not the size of a soul grinder, perhaps, but still considerably larger than Ghazghkull or Snagrod, whose empires, considering their current performance, would doubtlessly crumble in the face of multiple Legions.
As for the size of his Waaagh!. Well, the outcome is described as 'Ork population in the Milky Way galaxy devastated'. To devastate the Ork population in the galaxy, by crushing one empire, said empire must be rather large, no?
Fluff discussions is only half throwing quotes at one another, you know. The other half is actually forming a picture out of the information we have, and drawing the most likely conclusions.
It was a single legion that faced his Waaagh. Would you mind quoting the source about the orks in the Milky Way being devastated. I can't find it. The Waaagh did in fact crumble. It was utterly devastated in a single battle. The size of an orks Waaagh does not actually much impact the size of the ork. Rather the size of the orks around him. Therefore there is no way of saying that the ork was ever larger than Ghazghkull. As no source ever directly states the Orks exact size one cannot simply make claims that it is the size of a soulgrinder.
As for ork empires crumbling in the face of legions you would be surprised, there are several accounts of not particularly notable Orkney empires standing up to multiple legions. Warboss Overdogg Mashogg held up Leman Russ, his space wolves, the White Scars and the Great Khan and Perturabo+his iron warriors for a decent amount of time before he was eventually defeated. His Waaagh is never described as being of any significant size. In this case it is very doubtful that Ghazghkulls Waaagh would "crumble" as you put it against an attack by legions.
Furthermore I will point out that at this time the Luna Wolves (who were fighting) were comprised primarily of prototype space marines taken form the hyper violent gang scum of Horus' home planet (against their will) and so were not the super efficient fighting forces that the legions became known as.
100,000 Astartes drawn from multiple Space Marine Legions including the Luna Wolves, Ultramarines and White Scars, 8 million Imperial Army troops, multiple Titan Legions, thousands of Imperial starships and millions of support personnel
Ork population in the Milky Way Galaxy devastated
Sources are at the bottom.
If it impacts the size of the Orks around him it must impact his own size as well. He must, after all, be larger than them to stay in charge.
It was not only Luna Wolves, as you can see above. It also had all kinds of support, including the Emperor himself and friends.
And here in lies the problem with your argument. This was not the battle where the Emperor was saved by Horus...
BrotherHaraldus wrote: His argument, while seemingly unsourced, gains additional credibility the same way that my example gains a bit of its own.
Reason.
He stated two things, that the Ork was the size of a Soul Grinder and that the Waaagh was the size of half the galaxy.
Both are likely hyperbole, but not as much as you might think.
We know that larger Orks always are in charge. We know he must be pretty damn big, since he lorded over an empire that needed many Legions to crush. And Legions were massive concentrations of military force, not to mention their Adeptus Mechanicus, Custodes, Navy and Army support. From the sheer size and power of his empire, we can conclude that Urlakk Urg was pretty darn big indeed. Not the size of a soul grinder, perhaps, but still considerably larger than Ghazghkull or Snagrod, whose empires, considering their current performance, would doubtlessly crumble in the face of multiple Legions.
As for the size of his Waaagh!. Well, the outcome is described as 'Ork population in the Milky Way galaxy devastated'. To devastate the Ork population in the galaxy, by crushing one empire, said empire must be rather large, no?
Fluff discussions is only half throwing quotes at one another, you know. The other half is actually forming a picture out of the information we have, and drawing the most likely conclusions.
It was a single legion that faced his Waaagh. Would you mind quoting the source about the orks in the Milky Way being devastated. I can't find it. The Waaagh did in fact crumble. It was utterly devastated in a single battle. The size of an orks Waaagh does not actually much impact the size of the ork. Rather the size of the orks around him. Therefore there is no way of saying that the ork was ever larger than Ghazghkull. As no source ever directly states the Orks exact size one cannot simply make claims that it is the size of a soulgrinder.
As for ork empires crumbling in the face of legions you would be surprised, there are several accounts of not particularly notable Orkney empires standing up to multiple legions. Warboss Overdogg Mashogg held up Leman Russ, his space wolves, the White Scars and the Great Khan and Perturabo+his iron warriors for a decent amount of time before he was eventually defeated. His Waaagh is never described as being of any significant size. In this case it is very doubtful that Ghazghkulls Waaagh would "crumble" as you put it against an attack by legions.
Furthermore I will point out that at this time the Luna Wolves (who were fighting) were comprised primarily of prototype space marines taken form the hyper violent gang scum of Horus' home planet (against their will) and so were not the super efficient fighting forces that the legions became known as.
100,000 Astartes drawn from multiple Space Marine Legions including the Luna Wolves, Ultramarines and White Scars, 8 million Imperial Army troops, multiple Titan Legions, thousands of Imperial starships and millions of support personnel
Ork population in the Milky Way Galaxy devastated
Sources are at the bottom.
If it impacts the size of the Orks around him it must impact his own size as well. He must, after all, be larger than them to stay in charge.
It was not only Luna Wolves, as you can see above. It also had all kinds of support, including the Emperor himself and friends.
And here in lies the problem with your argument. This was not the battle where the Emperor was saved by Horus...
XXXX
An example. Ullanor was not the point. It was an example of the reasoning path. The Emperor is not weak because an Ork tried to crush him. The Ork is strong because he nearly managed to crush the Emperor.
We know that the Emperor is super-powerful already, since he killed Horus with the four Gods of Chaos channeling power into him even when he himself had his back broken, an eye destroyed and his arm torn from its socket. And the Astronomican, which he upholds even after having been a skeleton for what, ten thousand years?
BrotherHaraldus wrote: His argument, while seemingly unsourced, gains additional credibility the same way that my example gains a bit of its own.
Reason.
He stated two things, that the Ork was the size of a Soul Grinder and that the Waaagh was the size of half the galaxy.
Both are likely hyperbole, but not as much as you might think.
We know that larger Orks always are in charge. We know he must be pretty damn big, since he lorded over an empire that needed many Legions to crush. And Legions were massive concentrations of military force, not to mention their Adeptus Mechanicus, Custodes, Navy and Army support. From the sheer size and power of his empire, we can conclude that Urlakk Urg was pretty darn big indeed. Not the size of a soul grinder, perhaps, but still considerably larger than Ghazghkull or Snagrod, whose empires, considering their current performance, would doubtlessly crumble in the face of multiple Legions.
As for the size of his Waaagh!. Well, the outcome is described as 'Ork population in the Milky Way galaxy devastated'. To devastate the Ork population in the galaxy, by crushing one empire, said empire must be rather large, no?
Fluff discussions is only half throwing quotes at one another, you know. The other half is actually forming a picture out of the information we have, and drawing the most likely conclusions.
It was a single legion that faced his Waaagh. Would you mind quoting the source about the orks in the Milky Way being devastated. I can't find it. The Waaagh did in fact crumble. It was utterly devastated in a single battle. The size of an orks Waaagh does not actually much impact the size of the ork. Rather the size of the orks around him. Therefore there is no way of saying that the ork was ever larger than Ghazghkull. As no source ever directly states the Orks exact size one cannot simply make claims that it is the size of a soulgrinder.
As for ork empires crumbling in the face of legions you would be surprised, there are several accounts of not particularly notable Orkney empires standing up to multiple legions. Warboss Overdogg Mashogg held up Leman Russ, his space wolves, the White Scars and the Great Khan and Perturabo+his iron warriors for a decent amount of time before he was eventually defeated. His Waaagh is never described as being of any significant size. In this case it is very doubtful that Ghazghkulls Waaagh would "crumble" as you put it against an attack by legions.
Furthermore I will point out that at this time the Luna Wolves (who were fighting) were comprised primarily of prototype space marines taken form the hyper violent gang scum of Horus' home planet (against their will) and so were not the super efficient fighting forces that the legions became known as.
100,000 Astartes drawn from multiple Space Marine Legions including the Luna Wolves, Ultramarines and White Scars, 8 million Imperial Army troops, multiple Titan Legions, thousands of Imperial starships and millions of support personnel
Ork population in the Milky Way Galaxy devastated
Sources are at the bottom.
If it impacts the size of the Orks around him it must impact his own size as well. He must, after all, be larger than them to stay in charge.
It was not only Luna Wolves, as you can see above. It also had all kinds of support, including the Emperor himself and friends.
And here in lies the problem with your argument. This was not the battle where the Emperor was saved by Horus...
XXXX
An example. Ullanor was not the point. It was an example of the reasoning path. The Emperor is not weak because an Ork tried to crush him. The Ork is strong because he nearly managed to crush the Emperor.
We know that the Emperor is super-powerful already, since he killed Horus with the four Gods of Chaos channeling power into him even when he himself had his back broken, an eye destroyed and his arm torn from its socket. And the Astronomican, which he upholds even after having been a skeleton for what, ten thousand years?
The entire debate we were having was over the size and strength of the ork. It now turns out that the ork you have been referencing this entire time is not even the ork that was in fact attacking the Emperor. Explain to me exactly how that is not the point?
How is this thread not dead yet?
Pretty much everyone at 3 of the FLGS I frequent, said that the Emperor should stay in Legend and I agree wholeheartedly at this point.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: His argument, while seemingly unsourced, gains additional credibility the same way that my example gains a bit of its own.
Reason.
He stated two things, that the Ork was the size of a Soul Grinder and that the Waaagh was the size of half the galaxy.
Both are likely hyperbole, but not as much as you might think.
We know that larger Orks always are in charge. We know he must be pretty damn big, since he lorded over an empire that needed many Legions to crush. And Legions were massive concentrations of military force, not to mention their Adeptus Mechanicus, Custodes, Navy and Army support. From the sheer size and power of his empire, we can conclude that Urlakk Urg was pretty darn big indeed. Not the size of a soul grinder, perhaps, but still considerably larger than Ghazghkull or Snagrod, whose empires, considering their current performance, would doubtlessly crumble in the face of multiple Legions.
As for the size of his Waaagh!. Well, the outcome is described as 'Ork population in the Milky Way galaxy devastated'. To devastate the Ork population in the galaxy, by crushing one empire, said empire must be rather large, no?
Fluff discussions is only half throwing quotes at one another, you know. The other half is actually forming a picture out of the information we have, and drawing the most likely conclusions.
It was a single legion that faced his Waaagh. Would you mind quoting the source about the orks in the Milky Way being devastated. I can't find it. The Waaagh did in fact crumble. It was utterly devastated in a single battle. The size of an orks Waaagh does not actually much impact the size of the ork. Rather the size of the orks around him. Therefore there is no way of saying that the ork was ever larger than Ghazghkull. As no source ever directly states the Orks exact size one cannot simply make claims that it is the size of a soulgrinder.
As for ork empires crumbling in the face of legions you would be surprised, there are several accounts of not particularly notable Orkney empires standing up to multiple legions. Warboss Overdogg Mashogg held up Leman Russ, his space wolves, the White Scars and the Great Khan and Perturabo+his iron warriors for a decent amount of time before he was eventually defeated. His Waaagh is never described as being of any significant size. In this case it is very doubtful that Ghazghkulls Waaagh would "crumble" as you put it against an attack by legions.
Furthermore I will point out that at this time the Luna Wolves (who were fighting) were comprised primarily of prototype space marines taken form the hyper violent gang scum of Horus' home planet (against their will) and so were not the super efficient fighting forces that the legions became known as.
100,000 Astartes drawn from multiple Space Marine Legions including the Luna Wolves, Ultramarines and White Scars, 8 million Imperial Army troops, multiple Titan Legions, thousands of Imperial starships and millions of support personnel
Ork population in the Milky Way Galaxy devastated
Sources are at the bottom.
If it impacts the size of the Orks around him it must impact his own size as well. He must, after all, be larger than them to stay in charge.
It was not only Luna Wolves, as you can see above. It also had all kinds of support, including the Emperor himself and friends.
And here in lies the problem with your argument. This was not the battle where the Emperor was saved by Horus...
XXXX
An example. Ullanor was not the point. It was an example of the reasoning path. The Emperor is not weak because an Ork tried to crush him. The Ork is strong because he nearly managed to crush the Emperor.
We know that the Emperor is super-powerful already, since he killed Horus with the four Gods of Chaos channeling power into him even when he himself had his back broken, an eye destroyed and his arm torn from its socket. And the Astronomican, which he upholds even after having been a skeleton for what, ten thousand years?
The entire point of this strand of argument was to ascertain the size of the ork who was attacking the emperor. Hence the debate about his size is effected by the orks around him. It has just been proved that the ork you have been arguing is incredibly large and strong was not even the ork fighting the Emperor. How is that not relevant?
Because said Ork, Urlakk Urg, was beaten by Horus (Who is weaker in combat than the Emperor for the reasons stated in my previous post, not to mention him being younger and less experienced at this point) and yet this unnamed Ork managed to best, but not kill thanks to the intervention of Horus, the Emperor.
Are you seeing the pattern now?
Or, to simplify.
Young Horus < Old Horus
Emperor > Old Horus
Urlakk Urg < Young Horus
Unnamed Ork > Emperor
Ergo
Unnamed Ork > Urlakk Urg
Which is why Urlakk is so relevant, because we knew he was super-duperbig and powerful, though likely not Soul Grinder big, and unnamed Ork was even more powerful.
ThePrimordial wrote: How is this thread not dead yet?
Pretty much everyone at 3 of the FLGS I frequent, said that the Emperor should stay in Legend and I agree wholeheartedly at this point.
This thread is not dead yet as there is still an ongoing debate. The fact that you are no longer participating and have resigned yourself to a conclusion does not mean that others should immediately cease.
ThePrimordial wrote: How is this thread not dead yet?
Pretty much everyone at 3 of the FLGS I frequent, said that the Emperor should stay in Legend and I agree wholeheartedly at this point.
This thread is not dead yet as there is still an ongoing debate. The fact that you are no longer participating and have resigned yourself to a conclusion does not mean that others should immediately cease.
I agree that after mine and GoingtoHell's debate is over, though, this thread should die.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Because said Ork, Urlakk Urg, was beaten by Horus (Who is weaker in combat than the Emperor for the reasons stated in my previous post, not to mention him being younger and less experienced at this point) and yet this unnamed Ork managed to best, but not kill thanks to the intervention of Horus, the Emperor.
Are you seeing the pattern now?
Or, to simplify.
Young Horus < Old Horus
Emperor > Old Horus
Urlakk Urg < Young Horus
Unnamed Ork > Emperor
Ergo
Unnamed Ork > Urlakk Urg
Which is why Urlakk is so relevant, because we knew he was super-duperbig and powerful, though likely not Soul Grinder big, and unnamed Ork was even more powerful.
And yet it is merely plot armour that allowed Horus to defeat that ork. You cannot possibly compare this unnamed ork to Urlakk Urg through these events alone. If you are however using that logic though, Horus was forced to duel Urlakk to defeat him, he slew the ork strangling the Emperor with a single stroke.
I'm not saying that the Emperor is weaker than the Ork that was strangling him, and I'm certainly not saying he was weak. It can and must however be a noted fact when making his rules and hints that he is not this all powerful 1500 point characte that you and the Primoridal imagine.
A revenant Titan would destroy the Emperor in fluff and certainly should table top wise. Likewise it would kill Horus in a single blast without needing to engage him in single combat like the Emperor does. Basically this whole point is that the Empeor should not be as ridiculously powerful as you feel he should be represented.
ThePrimordial wrote: How is this thread not dead yet?
Pretty much everyone at 3 of the FLGS I frequent, said that the Emperor should stay in Legend and I agree wholeheartedly at this point.
This thread is not dead yet as there is still an ongoing debate. The fact that you are no longer participating and have resigned yourself to a conclusion does not mean that others should immediately cease.
Ever consider the two statements were separate?
Being nice can't be this hard.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Because said Ork, Urlakk Urg, was beaten by Horus (Who is weaker in combat than the Emperor for the reasons stated in my previous post, not to mention him being younger and less experienced at this point) and yet this unnamed Ork managed to best, but not kill thanks to the intervention of Horus, the Emperor.
Are you seeing the pattern now?
Or, to simplify.
Young Horus < Old Horus
Emperor > Old Horus
Urlakk Urg < Young Horus
Unnamed Ork > Emperor
Ergo
Unnamed Ork > Urlakk Urg
Which is why Urlakk is so relevant, because we knew he was super-duperbig and powerful, though likely not Soul Grinder big, and unnamed Ork was even more powerful.
And yet it is merely plot armour that allowed Horus to defeat that ork. You cannot possibly compare this unnamed ork to Urlakk Urg through these events alone. If you are however using that logic though, Horus was forced to duel Urlakk to defeat him, he slew the ork strangling the Emperor with a single stroke.
I'm not saying that the Emperor is weaker than the Ork that was strangling him, and I'm certainly not saying he was weak. It can and must however be a noted fact when making his rules and hints that he is not this all powerful 1500 point characte that you and the Primoridal imagine.
A revenant Titan would destroy the Emperor in fluff and certainly should table top wise. Likewise it would kill Horus in a single blast without needing to engage him in single combat like the Emperor does. Basically this whole point is that the Empeor should not be as ridiculously powerful as you feel he should be represented.
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Where does it say he killed this Ork in a single stroke? Even if he did, of course it would be easy for him if said Ork was busy wrestling with the Emperor.
Why, exactly, is it plot armour? What Horus did is not plot armour. If a normal human had done the same, it would have been. But Horus is no human.
Tvtropes wrote:Novice viewers will often confuse plot armor with more justified survival explanations. If Superman survives a bullet to the eye, that's just him using his powers. Superman is Nigh Invulnerable. If Indiana Jones does, that's plot armor. (Bonus points if he isn't even blinded.)
And then we'll just have to agree to disagree, because now we have reached the point where only opinion sets our viewpoints apart, not sources and fluff. I believe the Emperor would be able to take down a Revenant (His psychic powers play more than a little part of that, though) while you don't.
ThePrimordial wrote: How is this thread not dead yet?
Pretty much everyone at 3 of the FLGS I frequent, said that the Emperor should stay in Legend and I agree wholeheartedly at this point.
This thread is not dead yet as there is still an ongoing debate. The fact that you are no longer participating and have resigned yourself to a conclusion does not mean that others should immediately cease.
Ever consider the two statements were separate?
Being nice can't be this hard.
No as they are entirely connected to one another. You have come to a conclusion and thus have stated the thread should have died by now. Essentially you are saying because I have had a discussion somewhere else with somebody else about this subject and reached a conclusion, this thread should have ended by now. They may have been stated separately but they still link together in exactly the same way...
ThePrimordial wrote: How is this thread not dead yet?
Pretty much everyone at 3 of the FLGS I frequent, said that the Emperor should stay in Legend and I agree wholeheartedly at this point.
This thread is not dead yet as there is still an ongoing debate. The fact that you are no longer participating and have resigned yourself to a conclusion does not mean that others should immediately cease.
Ever consider the two statements were separate?
Being nice can't be this hard.
No as they are entirely connected to one another. You have come to a conclusion and thus have stated the thread should have died by now. Essentially you are saying because I have had a discussion somewhere else with somebody else about this subject and reached a conclusion, this thread should have ended by now. They may have been stated separately but they still link together in exactly the same way...
Wait......you're attempting to tell me what MY intention was with two unconnected statements?
I was simply giving my newfound thinking on the matter. Nothing more, and nothing less.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Because said Ork, Urlakk Urg, was beaten by Horus (Who is weaker in combat than the Emperor for the reasons stated in my previous post, not to mention him being younger and less experienced at this point) and yet this unnamed Ork managed to best, but not kill thanks to the intervention of Horus, the Emperor.
Are you seeing the pattern now?
Or, to simplify.
Young Horus < Old Horus
Emperor > Old Horus
Urlakk Urg < Young Horus
Unnamed Ork > Emperor
Ergo
Unnamed Ork > Urlakk Urg
Which is why Urlakk is so relevant, because we knew he was super-duperbig and powerful, though likely not Soul Grinder big, and unnamed Ork was even more powerful.
None of this makes any sense. That person A managed to best person B in combat is not proof that person A is more powerful. I have had terminators killed by gretchin; that doesn't mean grots are more powerful than marines in TDA. It is quite possible that chaos-fuelled Horus was quite a bit more powerful than the Emperor; Emperor practically died too and it took all his strength and an armour broken by Sanguinius to defeat Horus.
ThePrimordial wrote: How is this thread not dead yet?
Pretty much everyone at 3 of the FLGS I frequent, said that the Emperor should stay in Legend and I agree wholeheartedly at this point.
This thread is not dead yet as there is still an ongoing debate. The fact that you are no longer participating and have resigned yourself to a conclusion does not mean that others should immediately cease.
Ever consider the two statements were separate?
Being nice can't be this hard.
No as they are entirely connected to one another. You have come to a conclusion and thus have stated the thread should have died by now. Essentially you are saying because I have had a discussion somewhere else with somebody else about this subject and reached a conclusion, this thread should have ended by now. They may have been stated separately but they still link together in exactly the same way...
Wait......you're attempting to tell me what MY intention was with two unconnected statements?
I was simply giving my newfound thinking on the matter. Nothing more, and nothing less.
How exactly were you giving new found thinking on the matter when your two statements were: "how is this thread not dead yet" and "I think the Emperor should be confined to fluff" a viewpoint that has been consistently put forward in this discussion. You weren't.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Because said Ork, Urlakk Urg, was beaten by Horus (Who is weaker in combat than the Emperor for the reasons stated in my previous post, not to mention him being younger and less experienced at this point) and yet this unnamed Ork managed to best, but not kill thanks to the intervention of Horus, the Emperor.
Are you seeing the pattern now?
Or, to simplify.
Young Horus < Old Horus
Emperor > Old Horus
Urlakk Urg < Young Horus
Unnamed Ork > Emperor
Ergo
Unnamed Ork > Urlakk Urg
Which is why Urlakk is so relevant, because we knew he was super-duperbig and powerful, though likely not Soul Grinder big, and unnamed Ork was even more powerful.
None of this makes any sense. That person A managed to best person B in combat is not proof that person A is more powerful. I have had terminators killed by gretchin; that doesn't mean grots are more powerful than marines in TDA. It is quite possible that chaos-fuelled Horus was quite a bit more powerful than the Emperor; Emperor practically died too and it took all his strength and an armour broken by Sanguinius to defeat Horus.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Because said Ork, Urlakk Urg, was beaten by Horus (Who is weaker in combat than the Emperor for the reasons stated in my previous post, not to mention him being younger and less experienced at this point) and yet this unnamed Ork managed to best, but not kill thanks to the intervention of Horus, the Emperor.
Are you seeing the pattern now?
Or, to simplify.
Young Horus < Old Horus
Emperor > Old Horus
Urlakk Urg < Young Horus
Unnamed Ork > Emperor
Ergo
Unnamed Ork > Urlakk Urg
Which is why Urlakk is so relevant, because we knew he was super-duperbig and powerful, though likely not Soul Grinder big, and unnamed Ork was even more powerful.
None of this makes any sense. That person A managed to best person B in combat is not proof that person A is more powerful. I have had terminators killed by gretchin; that doesn't mean grots are more powerful than marines in TDA. It is quite possible that chaos-fuelled Horus was quite a bit more powerful than the Emperor; Emperor practically died too and it took all his strength and an armour broken by Sanguinius to defeat Horus.
To be fair, while I won't go out to disagree with you, what you're saying only reinforces my suspicion that the discussion here is done. After all, what you're saying is only really that the outcome of the fights is not something we can judge their power from.
In my meaning, it changes nothing. We are still at the 'agree-to-disagree' stage here.
