Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
I haven't seen this posted on here yet:
Hi everyone,
John here from the Warhammer World Events Team - there have been a few questions about Invasions going forward so I thought it would be good to let you all know the following:
Games Workshop has chosen to cancel all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World. We've done this because we decided that they were not the right thing for our customers or Games Workshop going forward, they are impractical to run properly to give everyone the best possible experience.
Apologies for any inconvenience caused everyone.
If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact GW customer services at the following number:
Run by your local Hobby Centre, Invasion Days are your chance to lay siege to Warhammer World, the beating heart of Games Workshop. Visit us and experience everything Warhammer World has to offer, with all of the details such as transport and food taken care of, and the bonus of other hobbyists to enjoy the day with. You and your friends can see beautifully painted figures in the Citadel Miniatures Hall, play on our amazing feature boards, and relax in Bugman's Bar while waiting for those same-day Direct Sales and Forge World models to arrive.
You can also take part in a gaming event run at every Invasion Day, where you can fight for the honour of your Hobby Centre against the foul denizens from rival stores. With prizes on offer for gaming, painting, sportsmanship and more, there are many opportunities to achieve glory. Ready your army and prepare for battle - how will you fare in the Invasion?
Doesn't matter a rat's ass to me that they aren't doing it, but it will possibly become the self fulfilling prophecy of reduced revenue into Warhammer World and Bugmans, which will then facilitate closing that...
Doesn't matter a rat's ass to me that they aren't doing it, but it will possibly become the self fulfilling prophecy of reduced revenue into Warhammer World and Bugmans, which will then facilitate closing that...
Which would be a pity.
This.
From my understanding this is case of, once again, GW being hoisted by their own petard in the form of the one man store model as they would have to temporarily close the stores in question for a day if they cannot find cover, which I presume is few and far between in modern GW.
I love how people aren't jumping to conclusions about the reasons behind this.
Given that Warhammer World is hugely popular, I wonder if they've done it to free up room for gamers/museum goers. Maybe all these parties from stores used to squat in the pub not buying anything and drawing complaints about their poor body odour.
The store visits ARE gamers/museum goers. That's the whole point of the store visits - it gets a decent sized group of gamers to go there. I doubt much people would travel for hours on end to sit in a pub for a few hours and then travel home. (And whose to say the other attendees don't have poor body odour?)
xruslanx wrote: I love how people aren't jumping to conclusions about the reasons behind this.
Given that Warhammer World is hugely popular, I wonder if they've done it to free up room for gamers/museum goers. Maybe all these parties from stores used to squat in the pub not buying anything and drawing complaints about their poor body odour.
You can tell its a cost cutting measure by the fact that they are trying to make it sound like both the customer and GW want this to end..
Why would the customer not want a field trip to Ultramarine land? Come on.. It's just GW saying "This costs us money and is fun for you..therefore it has to go"
Kirasu wrote: You can tell its a cost cutting measure by the fact that they are trying to make it sound like both the customer and GW want this to end..
Why would the customer not want a field trip to Ultramarine land? Come on.. It's just GW saying "This costs us money and is fun for you..therefore it has to go"
Wait, are these "invasions" free? I assumed GW charged for them.
Kirasu wrote: You can tell its a cost cutting measure by the fact that they are trying to make it sound like both the customer and GW want this to end..
Why would the customer not want a field trip to Ultramarine land? Come on.. It's just GW saying "This costs us money and is fun for you..therefore it has to go"
Wait, are these "invasions" free? I assumed GW charged for them.
Yes they charged for them.
It costs GW money as they have to close the stores in said group due to (more than likely) having no cover when these invasions are. As I already said, hoisted by their own petards.
But... I'm not even sure why I'm dignifying you with a proper reply as we all know how this will go down.
Kirasu wrote: You can tell its a cost cutting measure by the fact that they are trying to make it sound like both the customer and GW want this to end..
Why would the customer not want a field trip to Ultramarine land? Come on.. It's just GW saying "This costs us money and is fun for you..therefore it has to go"
Wait, are these "invasions" free? I assumed GW charged for them.
Yes they charged for them.
It costs GW money as they have to close the stores in said group due to (more than likely) having no cover when these invasions are. As I already said, hoisted by their own petards.
But... I'm not even sure why I'm dignifying you with a proper reply as we all know how this will go down.
Well, logically if it was profitable when cost of ticket sales > lost revenue, could it be possible that the lost revenue now exceeds the ticket sales? Or did they always lose money?
Would be great if there were some numbers on this - how many people on each trip, cost of each ticket. (Incidentally I reported your post for rudeness, please try to be polite in future. Using the phrase 'dignify with a reply' is very rude and condescending, especially when all I've done in this thread is offer a different viewpoint to your own).
Kirasu wrote: You can tell its a cost cutting measure by the fact that they are trying to make it sound like both the customer and GW want this to end..
Why would the customer not want a field trip to Ultramarine land? Come on.. It's just GW saying "This costs us money and is fun for you..therefore it has to go"
Wait, are these "invasions" free? I assumed GW charged for them.
Yes they charged for them.
It costs GW money as they have to close the stores in said group due to (more than likely) having no cover when these invasions are. As I already said, hoisted by their own petards.
But... I'm not even sure why I'm dignifying you with a proper reply as we all know how this will go down.
Well, logically if it was profitable when cost of ticket sales > lost revenue, could it be possible that the lost revenue now exceeds the ticket sales? Or did they always lose money?
Would be great if there were some numbers on this - how many people on each trip, cost of each ticket. (Incidentally I reported your post for rudeness, please try to be polite in future. Using the phrase 'dignify with a reply' is very rude and condescending, especially when all I've done in this thread is offer a different viewpoint to your own).
But, tragically for you, this thread isn't in a vacuum, and regular posters will be more than aware of your history of "debating" points where you discard anything people offer while accusing them of failing to offer anything to support their argument simultaneously. Arguing with you is, largely, a waste of time.
Kirasu wrote: You can tell its a cost cutting measure by the fact that they are trying to make it sound like both the customer and GW want this to end..
Why would the customer not want a field trip to Ultramarine land? Come on.. It's just GW saying "This costs us money and is fun for you..therefore it has to go"
Wait, are these "invasions" free? I assumed GW charged for them.
Yes they charged for them.
It costs GW money as they have to close the stores in said group due to (more than likely) having no cover when these invasions are. As I already said, hoisted by their own petards.
But... I'm not even sure why I'm dignifying you with a proper reply as we all know how this will go down.
Well, logically if it was profitable when cost of ticket sales > lost revenue, could it be possible that the lost revenue now exceeds the ticket sales? Or did they always lose money?
Would be great if there were some numbers on this - how many people on each trip, cost of each ticket. (Incidentally I reported your post for rudeness, please try to be polite in future. Using the phrase 'dignify with a reply' is very rude and condescending, especially when all I've done in this thread is offer a different viewpoint to your own).
But, tragically for you, this thread isn't in a vacuum, and regular posters will be more than aware of your history of "debating" points where you discard anything people offer while accusing them of failing to offer anything to support their argument simultaneously. Arguing with you is, largely, a waste of time.
Well that's the beauty of ignoring people. Nothing HMBC says is ever worth my time or attention, but I don't point this out every single time. If you think that what I'm saying is trolling or stupid, ignore it.
Regarding the *topic* I'd be hesitant to cynically call "cost cutting!" without seeing more numbers. Hell if you want an alternate explanation that satiates your oedipal hatred of Games Workshop, maybe they just aren't as popular any more? Maybe people are just losing interest in GW because they can't write rules and have crappy models, so the coach trips just aren't worth it any more. There are all sorts of possible explanations of this, sneering derisively at someone for suggesting an alternative one doesn't get anyone anywhere.
xruslanx wrote: [
Well, logically if it was profitable when cost of ticket sales > lost revenue, could it be possible that the lost revenue now exceeds the ticket sales? Or did they always lose money?
Would be great if there were some numbers on this - how many people on each trip, cost of each ticket. (Incidentally I reported your post for rudeness, please try to be polite in future. Using the phrase 'dignify with a reply' is very rude and condescending, especially when all I've done in this thread is offer a different viewpoint to your own).
Well, there would also be vehicle rental (I think they hired minibuses like the GW stores that launched 'invasions' to Games Day?) and then the insurance aspect of that as well as the potential risk of taking youngsters on trips, having to have your store employees take on the whole 'in loco parentis' aspect, which, again is has the potential for nightmare litigation should anything go wrong.
Couple all that with the scaling down of staffing levels in the stores and yeah, it becomes untenable.
Regarding the *topic* I'd be hesitant to cynically call "cost cutting!" without seeing more numbers. Hell if you want an alternate explanation that satiates your oedipal hatred of Games Workshop, maybe they just aren't as popular any more? Maybe people are just losing interest in GW because they can't write rules and have crappy models, so the coach trips just aren't worth it any more. There are all sorts of possible explanations of this, sneering derisively at someone for suggesting an alternative one doesn't get anyone anywhere.
You keep using that word....
But OT: If they were no longer profitable, then why not just cancel all future ones? GW have cancelled all the existing ones too. Right before Christmas. If this does not smack of cost cutting I don't know what does.
Someone - Az, MGS - please quote this so he sees it.
xruslanx wrote: Well that's the beauty of ignoring people. Nothing HMBC says is ever worth my time or attention, but I don't point this out every single time. If you think that what I'm saying is trolling or stupid, ignore it.
You're far too entertaining to ignore xru. It's not every day we get someone so blinded by their love of GW that they'll jump in to not only defend everything they do, but is also just so utterly incompetent when it comes to debating other people that each post looks like a bulleted list of logical fallacies and intellectually dishonest statements. I mean Kan does a bit of that (the endlessly defending stuff, not the logical fallacies - those are all you xru!), but Kan's a good guy and we like him.
So please xru, never stop (or do... or whatever). You're just way too much fun.
Kirasu wrote: You can tell its a cost cutting measure by the fact that they are trying to make it sound like both the customer and GW want this to end..
Why would the customer not want a field trip to Ultramarine land? Come on.. It's just GW saying "This costs us money and is fun for you..therefore it has to go"
Wait, are these "invasions" free? I assumed GW charged for them.
Yes they charged for them.
It costs GW money as they have to close the stores in said group due to (more than likely) having no cover when these invasions are. As I already said, hoisted by their own petards.
But... I'm not even sure why I'm dignifying you with a proper reply as we all know how this will go down.
Well, logically if it was profitable when cost of ticket sales > lost revenue, could it be possible that the lost revenue now exceeds the ticket sales? Or did they always lose money?
Would be great if there were some numbers on this - how many people on each trip, cost of each ticket. (Incidentally I reported your post for rudeness, please try to be polite in future. Using the phrase 'dignify with a reply' is very rude and condescending, especially when all I've done in this thread is offer a different viewpoint to your own).
But, tragically for you, this thread isn't in a vacuum, and regular posters will be more than aware of your history of "debating" points where you discard anything people offer while accusing them of failing to offer anything to support their argument simultaneously. Arguing with you is, largely, a waste of time.
Well that's the beauty of ignoring people. Nothing HMBC says is ever worth my time or attention, but I don't point this out every single time. If you think that what I'm saying is trolling or stupid, ignore it.
Regarding the *topic* I'd be hesitant to cynically call "cost cutting!" without seeing more numbers. Hell if you want an alternate explanation that satiates your oedipal hatred of Games Workshop, maybe they just aren't as popular any more? Maybe people are just losing interest in GW because they can't write rules and have crappy models, so the coach trips just aren't worth it any more. There are all sorts of possible explanations of this, sneering derisively at someone for suggesting an alternative one doesn't get anyone anywhere.
There you go, jumping to conclusions again!
I don't harbour any more hatred of GW than I do my toaster (albeit I do suspect the fether burns my breakfast on purpose sometimes) But what you fail to see through the narrow slits of the visor on that blue helmet of yours is how hard you have to twist things to make them fit your world view, when, like it or not, the "hater" view just seems to fit the facts on offer so much more neatly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Someone - Az, MGS - please quote this so he sees it. Done
xruslanx wrote: Well that's the beauty of ignoring people. Nothing HMBC says is ever worth my time or attention, but I don't point this out every single time. If you think that what I'm saying is trolling or stupid, ignore it.
You're far too entertaining to ignore xru. It's not every day we get someone so blinded by their love of GW that they'll jump in to not only defend everything they do, but is also just so utterly incompetent when it comes to debating other people that each post looks like a bulleted list of logical fallacies and intellectually dishonest statements. I mean Kan does a bit of that (the endlessly defending stuff, not the logical fallacies - those are all you xru!), but Kan's a good guy and we like him.
So please xru, never stop (or do... or whatever). You're just way too much fun.
At least we know if he does stop, that some other poster will be along shortly afterwards to take up the mantle!
I would imagine that at least some parents would have been going along too.
I imagine they'll be downsizing the warhammer world staff at some point too, then just bring in the 'roaming' staff, or whatever you call them, for big tournament / campaign weekend days.
The numbers have to be really awful for them to see it as cost cutting. The 'Invasions' are not usually just one store. It's usually something like, "Invasion North East" or "Invasion: Scotland" so probably people going from 2 or 3 stores.
Plus, this is GW we're talking about. How awful does the income from it need to be for them to decide, "you know what. It's not even worth raising the ticket prices for this, lets just get rid of the event entirely."
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
xruslanx wrote: [
Well, logically if it was profitable when cost of ticket sales > lost revenue, could it be possible that the lost revenue now exceeds the ticket sales? Or did they always lose money?
Would be great if there were some numbers on this - how many people on each trip, cost of each ticket. (Incidentally I reported your post for rudeness, please try to be polite in future. Using the phrase 'dignify with a reply' is very rude and condescending, especially when all I've done in this thread is offer a different viewpoint to your own).
Well, there would also be vehicle rental (I think they hired minibuses like the GW stores that launched 'invasions' to Games Day?) and then the insurance aspect of that as well as the potential risk of taking youngsters on trips, having to have your store employees take on the whole 'in loco parentis' aspect, which, again is has the potential for nightmare litigation should anything go wrong.
Couple all that with the scaling down of staffing levels in the stores and yeah, it becomes untenable.
Are there many stores that could even do a round trip in a day? I would think there would also have to be the finding of accommodation locally so that people could stay overnight (which of course vastly increases the problem of under 18s attending as well as again increasing the costs of the trip and of insurance).
Combine that with increased fuel costs and the already mentioned points like insurance; staffing issues etc.. and I can certainly well see that such a policy just isn't in GW's interest at present.
Also with model prices being high (ok they were and always are high) it might be that many were cutting out the trip and just playing locally and spending more on the models. With a GW store already providing tables and often having generally very good models on display already I can see many at a club (esp one focused around gaming) might simply not want to group together to go for this kind of event.
Edit - ;last time I was at GWHQ a month or two back they were basically in the middle of a construction site. There was a lot of building going on around GW to do with the town and such (not GW itself) so it could be that the influence there has made it harder to bus people in/out or has added some safety concerns.
This is great news! Now you will have more opportunities to build a relationship with your local Games™ Workshop™ Hobby™ Center™ instead of traveling to some other store!
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
I'd imagine it's the only way for quite a few folks to get down there. I'd also imagine those invasions were some of their more profitable days, due to folks spending big on forgeworld etc. You have to ponder the future of Warhammer World really.
I don't harbour any more hatred of GW than I do my toaster (albeit I do suspect the fether burns my breakfast on purpose sometimes) But what you fail to see through the narrow slits of the visor on that blue helmet of yours is how hard you have to twist things to make them fit your world view, when, like it or not, the "hater" view just seems to fit the facts on offer so much more neatly.
The "you" wasn't addressed at you, it was supposed to be collective. You actually aren't too bad, all things considered. But yes, there is a culture of hate on dakka, that I have literally never encountered in the real world. Just look at *any* thread about *anything* GW does. It will be immediately filled by a "consensus" that GW is crap/useless/evil. Obviously GW do plenty of stupid things but the fever pitch and general assumption of failure and incompetence is just bizarre.
I am a member of several computer game forums, none of which have the same hatred of their hobby that dakka does. Hell I'm usually defending people from the hordes of adoring fans wno refuse to accept any critisism of the game whatsoever. And yet despite my criticisms of GW (codexes including over-powered but hideoulsy expensive units [vendetta], certain boxes being grossly too expensive, content being cut from codexes to be released as a 'data slate', over-zealous enforcement of IP, over priced terrain, a lack of bitz service, White Dwarf being absolute crap), I'm still labled as a "white knight" simply because I don't instinctively have a negative opinion of everything GW does.
Whatever, you guys are clearly not interested in any discussion - since apparently, according to you, my 'behavior' in other threads means it's okay to disregard anything I say, ever. And that's cool, I'm going to go play Civ IV. Peace.
xruslanx wrote: Well that's the beauty of ignoring people. Nothing HMBC says is ever worth my time or attention, but I don't point this out every single time.
Apparently the forum rules about "be polite" aren't worth your time or attention either?
xruslanx wrote: Well, logically if it was profitable when cost of ticket sales > lost revenue, could it be possible that the lost revenue now exceeds the ticket sales? Or did they always lose money?
Like GW you don't seem to understand the idea of losing money on a promotional event/item/etc so that you can boost sales elsewhere.
azreal13 wrote: But, tragically for you, this thread isn't in a vacuum, and regular posters will be more than aware of your history of "debating" points where you discard anything people offer while accusing them of failing to offer anything to support their argument simultaneously. Arguing with you is, largely, a waste of time.
Oh the irony.
A month after I join Dakka Dakka, I got so fed up with reading xruslanx's trolling and derailing threads that I add him to my Ignore list.
But I still have to read his pointless comments and circular arguments, because people are arguing with him and quoting him.
Please, either use some common sense and just Ignore him so that threads can stay on topic and not devolve into Dakka Dakka v xRuslanx, or stop quoting everything he says so the people who have decided to stop paying attention to him aren't forced to read his comments regardless.
At this rate, we might as well rename this thread Dakka Dakka v
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
I would love to hear more about these trips, and they would be delightfully on topic as it's clear several posters have never been to one. Pictures also if you have them.
I'd love to work myself up into a lather over this but frankly I never heard of either Invasions or store trips. I figured GW was already cancelling trips to their stores for frivolous reasons like buying stuff by switching to the one man store model and slowly moving everything over to direct only.
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
I was there, having a game, by christ you guys were noisy!
Ot, I'm an idealist and I have learnt that things rarely work out how I'd like them to, but here goes anyway.
Cost cutting = less lost profit = less overheads = potential to reduce product prices without sacrificing on quality! HUZZAH!!
kitch102 wrote: Cost cutting = less lost profit = less overheads = potential to reduce product prices without sacrificing on quality! HUZZAH!!
The problem with that hope is that GW seems to need all this cost cutting just to keep their profits at the current level. So you can expect to continue getting less for the same price until GW's IP is bought by a better company.
Could GW not just make a logistical leap and make invasions both rarefied and more regional. That is to say fewer events with a higher number of stores involved and with a minimum about of people for the given event. Wouldnt that satisfy both sides?
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
I would love to hear more about these trips, and they would be delightfully on topic as it's clear several posters have never been to one. Pictures also if you have them.
They're (or rather, they were) 600 doubles/1200 singles days where after a long, tiring coach journey (from where I live each one lasted about 5-6 hours) you walk into WHW and get to play three games, with some good quality food, Bugmans and the spectacle of visiting every display model GW uses in WD, on their site and box art in the flesh up close in the miniatures hall, which I'll say is simply stunning for that reason alone; before you consider the ~7x7 ft massive diorama in the middle with a Company of Space Wolves fending off a Tyranid horde, complete with an absurdly large fortress, chasm and bridge.
The individual boards and scenery on each one are all expertly painted (unfortunately the numerous City/Eldar maiden world/other gorgeous boards that are without a doubt the best 40k boards I've ever seen aren't used for the tournament ), balanced and interesting to play on. The one I went to on Sunday was a 600 doubles tournament and it was nuts.
Seriously, this is upsetting because at least half of the tournaments I go to each year have been WHW trips for the past 3-4 years, and I'm not sugarcoating the truth when I say that they were the most exciting most of the time.
Regarding the *topic* I'd be hesitant to cynically call "cost cutting!" without seeing more numbers. Hell if you want an alternate explanation that satiates your oedipal hatred of Games Workshop, maybe they just aren't as popular any more? Maybe people are just losing interest in GW because they can't write rules and have crappy models, so the coach trips just aren't worth it any more. There are all sorts of possible explanations of this, sneering derisively at someone for suggesting an alternative one doesn't get anyone anywhere.
I just cannot leave this alone.
You are saying GW is my Mum and I have carnal desires for my mother? It all makes sense now, how she embarrasses me, never cuddles me except in public, how she lies to me when telling me bad news, and sometimes out of the blue smacks me across the back of the head for no apparent reason.
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
I was there, having a game, by christ you guys were noisy!
Ot, I'm an idealist and I have learnt that things rarely work out how I'd like them to, but here goes anyway.
Cost cutting = less lost profit = less overheads = potential to reduce product prices without sacrificing on quality! HUZZAH!!
Though it is depressingly easy to argue that quality has already been sacrificed.
Finecast is such a wonderful thing....
So... just cost cutting - regardless of whether it hurts the quality/availability/enjoyment of the product. HUZZAH!!
And another price increase! HUZZAH!!
And more restrictions on retailers! HUZZAH!!
The Auld Grump, yeah... nope. Nothing there to cheer.
Though it is depressingly easy to argue that quality has already been sacrificed.
Finecast is such a wonderful thing....
So... just cost cutting - regardless of whether it hurts the quality/availability/enjoyment of the product. HUZZAH!!
And another price increase! HUZZAH!!
And more restrictions on retailers! HUZZAH!!
The Auld Grump, yeah... nope. Nothing there to cheer.
Sadly, oh, so true...
Other companies are selling similar quality if not better miniatures cheaper, Vallejo (for one) makes better paints and brushes, and going into a GW store is a chore, not a pleasure, and has been for years...
Why would I ever deal with GW anymore?
(Oh, and if I need a 40K fix, Forgeworld is cheaper to Australia then GW "mainstream" products...)
It could be a situation where the ticket sales cover some of the cost of running the event, and GW takes the loss on the rest to promote the game and hopefully get people to buy more stuff later. It's exactly the kind of thing you'd want to cut if you're worried about making the next financial report look good. It eliminates a loss immediately, and the probable lost sales won't happen until sometime in the future and can't be directly attributed to the decision.
Its so black and white on internet forums (or is that black and orange). Person X says person Y is being irrational but Y holds the common opinion so X is being rude about it. Therefore person Y and those those that support his common held view is now able to deride person X.
It is often the case when X tries to put forwad the view that GW is not all bad. For they are now calling people haters. Y and co. Do not like this. So let's all call X a knight... Binary.
GW is not evil. GW is a business. If these events don't make sense for them, for what ever reason (I think logistics have an equal part to play than mearly cash), then fine. Only they have all the data regard cost vs benefits.
Do GW need to rethink their relationship with their customer's? Since we are all customers, and no one I have ever seen on here has ever defend them to the last, I would say yes.
Automatically Appended Next Post: They are like the IoM. Beset on all sides.
The hobby is shifting away from them with other companies, new business models (kickstarters, 3D printing) and More contemporary ways to keep ourselves entertained (video gaming).
This decision may come back to bite them. Maybe they have something else up their sleeves. Who knows...
Ultimately I hope the get the right formula since I am a fan of their work.
That and they have a marketing department that gets paid for not doing much, except saying "this is great news"
It actually really annoys me that due to the fact that they went into a 1 man store style that they shut down a truly unique and GW experience of invasions of GW world.
WarOne wrote: How much more can GW cut before they reach a point where they cannot cut any more?
Well, let me put it this way, I expect them to start putting out books that make the cut and paste abomination of Escalation look like a shining example of great game design and literature at an excellent price.
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
I was there, having a game, by christ you guys were noisy!
Ot, I'm an idealist and I have learnt that things rarely work out how I'd like them to, but here goes anyway.
Cost cutting = less lost profit = less overheads = potential to reduce product prices without sacrificing on quality! HUZZAH!!
Prices will NEVER go down. Even if GW reduced all its own costs to infintesimal levels, why the hell would they reduce their profit by reducing prices? They THINK that the market will bear their current prices (jury's out on that...) so then lower costs=higher profits. lower prices=less profits (than if prices remained the same).
Frankly, that's the "genius" of jacking up the prices at every single new release. it acclimates everyone to insane prices. For example, I simply cannot aford the new Tyranid releases, though I like them. If I magically got a better job with a higher salary, I might decide that I could afford them. Now, I'm not sure of the wisdom of putting off potential customers like me with such high prices, but it's obviously part of a certain pricing strategy. I personally hate it, so much so that I am actively resentful, but the sharholders may like it, and it may be sound business policy.
Every time I've been to Wargammer World it's been quiet, but their gaming hall is vast and bar and facilities are good. I find it difficult to believe that they are stopping these trips because they need to 'free up room'. These trips should be guaranteed bums on seats, unless no one was actually going and their buses were mostly empty.
When is said they are not evil I didn't say that people explicitly said they were.
However a lot of people spend a lot of time 2nd guessing and pouring negativity into every thing GW does. But then hey, this is the internet right :-)
For all we know the guy at GW Lenton that managed this left and they just can't be arsed to get someone else to do it.
This is not to say it isn't a dumb move. After all every time I get back to the UK I drive up to WW. I love going and I am a full grown (who am i kidding) adult. i will def make the time to head there of Xmas.
I can only imagine how amazing it is to go there for those young'un's. The visit of one 10 year old kid, who gets hooked after one special visit to GWHQ, over the course of his life is worth a pretty penny. Get them hooked young :-)
John here from the Warhammer World Events Team - there have been a few questions about Invasions going forward so I thought it would be good to let you all know the following:
Games Workshop has chosen to cancel all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World. We've done this because we decided that they were not the right thing for our customers or Games Workshop going forward, they are impractical to run properly to give everyone the best possible experience.
Apologies for any inconvenience caused everyone.
If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact GW customer services at the following number:
Mainly due indeed to the growing number of the stores which are one man sorry .. person operations. Because of course those stores can't really be shut and its increasingly awkward/expensive to provide cover for those stores.
Relating to this it's viewed as somewhat unfair that this situation means that really only certain stores would be able to offer this experience to their customers.
.. YMMV here of course.
Warhammer World has a few albums/pictures from some of the invasion days
Which are worth a flick through if you get the chance.
I went to one of these...w ell it was more of an early prototype version before it became as organised as it [s]is[/] sorry... was and had an enjoyable enough experience.
Mainly because WW -- if one is a Warhammer/GW geek -- is worth a visit .
I hope they are able to sort something out in the future.
Surely, if GW stores having fewer gaming tables in shops, moving to small 1-man shops that a table cannot fit, and cranking up the scenery sizes, the best way to get players buying is take them to showcase a well laid-out gaming venue.
If players can be shown a full set of Wall of Martyrs, and all the other table goodies, they'll want to buy them to play at home.
Is the future of GW stores to have GW's website running behind the counter, and nothing on the shelves? Direct-only and no gaming tables, a trip to WHW is the only way lots of people will get to see the full GW experience.
Not that anyone's going to Gamesday any more....
beast_gts wrote: And they've taken down the Facebook post(s) about it...
You expected otherwise?
Customer opinion shouldn't be aired in public....
They put a new message up trying to spin it and someone asked if they were going to delete negative comments from this one as well so they nuked it from orbit.
Im fortunate to be within driving distance of warhammer world, it is a great place even the GF likes when we go as she can go look at all the minis in the hall and the food at bugmans is something else.
It’s a shame to see that people living further away (or haven’t got access to a car) may miss out on this opportunity.
I’m rather inclined to take the statement at face value.
It was quite expensive to go an invasion trip as you paid something towards entrance and the coach on top. I think our local GW was asking about 45 quid for the next one they had planned. So I’m not sure what costs they are cutting, as the store is able to still function with one staff member on the coach and warhammer world staff are present anyway. However, the experience could be quite varied. Of couse things could have improved since I last went on one, but stores set to play each other would sent different numbers, or sometimes would cancel at last minute, or arrive late, and there was an element of on-the-hoof about the day itself.
Against this its worth noting that Warhammer World has accelerated their own event programme over the last couple of years. There are campaign weekends, kill-team events, doubles, regular Throne of Skulls, hobby related events. The latest Calendar has very few weekends free December to March. So given the option of experiencing Warhammer World through one of these highly organised events or the more shambolic Invasions, I can see why they would prefer the latter.
There’s probably questions about supervision of children and liability as well, especially if there is significant construction work on the site at the moment. I always thought it odd dispatching 50 odd kids off on a bus with a minimally qualified GW enthusiast in charge.
Games Workshop has looked very carefully at running coach trips and visits like this, and has decided that they are impractical to run properly to give everyone the best possible experience. Rather than give people a mixed experience, we're concentrating on the events and activities where we can give consistent quality. If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact GW customer services at the following number: uk.custserv@gwplc.com 01159140000 ~ Lise
Well actually what appears in your pic is an Ouroboros (Greek for snake eating his own tail).
The Ouroboros often symbolize self-reflexivity or cyclicality, especially in the sense of something constantly re-creating itself, the eternal return and staff like that. I guess this isn't what you meant .
Its a shame that GW seems so confident with their market share they seem unable to comprehend that it may change.
With price rises, stores no longer being gaming venues, impose harsh restrictions on third party sellers(I have never seen a company with so much distain for those who sell their product) and the large number of other gaming companies on the rise GW are not going to be the biggest game in town forever.
Having stores to play in, trips to warhammer world and other events is all advertising for GW it helps get new customers in and gives them a place to use the product (and then buy more) without these things they will find their market share dwindling. If it dwindles too greatly they may find their policies in regard to third party sellers biting them in the ass.
I take joy in any accusation that says more about the accuser than the accused.
Part of me assumes that rather then oedipal, they meant "visceral." I'm no shrink, but seeing the sheer passionate dislike for much of GW's decisions would startle the casual observer. I think it makes sense given the investment made into the hobby (money, time, creativity, and emotion), but there are times when it gets a bit much.
Still, another part thinks that the poster meant oedipal. Meaning he see GW as a father figure, which is fascinating in its own right. I mean, you aren't a full grown adult until you work through your daddy issues (mine was a good provider that was in no authoritative, leaving me inherently work against weak authority figures).
Automatically Appended Next Post: On topic... meh?
Just because something is popular, does not make it profitable. Just because something is profitable, does not make it profitable enough. And just because something makes a lot of profit does not mean it's worth the hassle.
I"m not sure this is part of the more recent firesale mentality of GW, but rather their long term strategy to stop subsidizing the hobby community.
It seems all GW venues are having difficulty during these hard financial times:
Games Workshop: Fulchester wrote:The ravening hordes come, day after day. We are tired and weary, and no matter how hard we try to repel, still they come, the unrelenting horde.
Of confused parents. Asking for 'little men' for Christmas. We're getting bored of re-directing them to Steve's Midget Emporium.
I can see it being a cost cutting exercise, Warhammer World is heaving most of the time anyway and all the future events are almost booked up already.
They probably see there is no need to take more people there at cost, I dont think this is a big thing really, I was surprised that they still actually did these trips anyway.
Seems pretty sensible to me. The new approach for shops seems to be the single staff member, and you can't seriously shut down a retail outlet for a day to make a loss somewhere else. There are plenty of gaming clubs, organise a visit there if you want to see the place, It's the reason I'm going in the near future.
I take joy in any accusation that says more about the accuser than the accused.
Part of me assumes that rather then oedipal, they meant "visceral." I'm no shrink, but seeing the sheer passionate dislike for much of GW's decisions would startle the casual observer. I think it makes sense given the investment made into the hobby (money, time, creativity, and emotion), but there are times when it gets a bit much.
Still, another part thinks that the poster meant oedipal.
It's very Oedipal, in respect of the rejection of a father or authority figure. Some people are shocked and disgusted to realise that GW is a commercial company, which exists to make money and provide returns to its shareholders. Then a few people discover they like expressing that shock and disgust more than they do painting or using the product.
xruslanx wrote: Just look at *any* thread about *anything* GW does. It will be immediately filled by a "consensus" that GW is crap/useless/evil.
There is a (currently) 48-page Tyranid rumours thread in News 7 Rumours right now that suggests otherwise.
Dakka doesn't have a 'hate culture' towards GW. What we do have is a large number of gamers who have been around a while and don't see any reason to cut them any slack for sub-par work, though. So yes, GW cop some stick when they do something that isn't great... and they've copped a lot of that lately because they've done a lot of stupid recently. But 'Dakka' as a community is also generally more than happy to give praise when they do something right. Exhibit A, Tyranids.
Whatever, you guys are clearly not interested in any discussion - since apparently, according to you, my 'behavior' in other threads means it's okay to disregard anything I say, ever.
Yes, people will form an opinion of you, and the worth of your potential contribution to a discussion, based on your behaviour. Surprising, but true.
The problem is that some people have grown up with GW as a company, and the company has grown with them. The dakka-ite grows up (sometimes) and doesn't like that GW has had to as well.
I would love to still pop into the shop, with one staff member painting, another running a game and the other there to chat, and pick up a Rhino and a Tac squad for 15 quid, but it's just not the way the world works
xruslanx wrote: Just look at *any* thread about *anything* GW does. It will be immediately filled by a "consensus" that GW is crap/useless/evil.
There is a (currently) 48-page Tyranid rumours thread in News 7 Rumours right now that suggests otherwise.
Dakka doesn't have a 'hate culture' towards GW. What we do have is a large number of gamers who have been around a while and don't see any reason to cut them any slack for sub-par work, though. So yes, GW cop some stick when they do something that isn't great... and they've copped a lot of that lately because they've done a lot of stupid recently. But 'Dakka' as a community is also generally more than happy to give praise when they do something right. Exhibit A, Tyranids.
This is all subjective of course, but the dakka tyranids thread, especially compared to other fora, did indeed boast quite a lot of negativity - people who don't play tyranids jumping in to say some of the new items don't look great, alleging that it's all the usual game of nerfing existing troops so everyone buys new models, saying that if you spend $1000 you get a free plastic bag.
It's great to have a range of opinions, but some people love to flock to negative threads, complaining say, that GW don't give away free painting guides... then stay away from threads about, say, free GW painting guides (or else complain that GW don't give them free iPads).
The Division Of Joy wrote: The problem is that some people have grown up with GW as a company, and the company has grown with them. The dakka-ite grows up (sometimes) and doesn't like that GW has had to as well.
^^This. I've only recently got back into GW after a 10 - 15 year gap and it's a very different company from the one I remember...
I haven’t read the entire thread but everyone seems to presume that htis is just cost cutting from GW, however it is also possible that there are a large range of reasons that GW might have stopped this, to list a few:
1) The coach company may have increased the cost – GW might have decided that whilst people will pay £30 to get there they will not pay £50
2) Insurance – it may sound daft, but if GW put on a coach trip then they are responsible for the people until they drop them off at home, this leaves them open being sued if the person involved does something stupid and gets hurt – whilst if the person makes their own way to the event and does something stupid then it is the persons fault (note this is if the incident was the persons fault, obviously if the wall fell in on them then GW is responsible either way). GW insurance company might have put up costs and again GW might have decided that this would have made the cost of a ticket too much (English law is stupid like this, in Winter my parents cannot grit the steps down to their shop as if they grit them and some slips and hurts themselves then my parents can be sued for not doing it properly, where as if they do not grit them then it is an act of god and my parents are safe)
3) GW might have decided that it is unfair for more local customers to fund longer distance ones. The price of £30 here has been used a lot so I presume everyone paid this? – but surely it costs more to put on a coach trip from Scotland than it does from within Nottinghamshire?
4) Calendar space, I’m not sure how many people actually look at the WW calendar, but it’s pretty full already – they may have decided that running the tournaments is more important (and probably profitable) than running these day trips
That’s just 4 points that quickly spring to mind as to why GW might have had to stop these – none of which are cost cutting, whilst I get that GW isn’t liked much on this board, and often with good reason, let’s not assume that everything they do is evil.
xruslanx wrote: Just look at *any* thread about *anything* GW does. It will be immediately filled by a "consensus" that GW is crap/useless/evil.
There is a (currently) 48-page Tyranid rumours thread in News 7 Rumours right now that suggests otherwise.
Dakka doesn't have a 'hate culture' towards GW. What we do have is a large number of gamers who have been around a while and don't see any reason to cut them any slack for sub-par work, though. So yes, GW cop some stick when they do something that isn't great... and they've copped a lot of that lately because they've done a lot of stupid recently. But 'Dakka' as a community is also generally more than happy to give praise when they do something right. Exhibit A, Tyranids.
This is all subjective of course, but the dakka tyranids thread, especially compared to other fora, did indeed boast quite a lot of negativity - people who don't play tyranids jumping in to say some of the new items don't look great, alleging that it's all the usual game of nerfing existing troops so everyone buys new models, saying that if you spend $1000 you get a free plastic bag.
It's great to have a range of opinions, but some people love to flock to negative threads, complaining say, that GW don't give away free painting guides... then stay away from threads about, say, free GW painting guides (or else complain that GW don't give them free iPads).
You've demonstrated a particular sensitivity with regard to criticism of anything in the Nid thread (you reacted to one of my posts as if I was trashing the models, for instance, when in fact I'd explicitly said I like most of what I've seen of them) so yes, I'd say in this instance perception of that thread is extremely subjective for you, to the point where objectivity is going to be very difficult.
What I think you've got to bear in mind with regard to Dakka is that it is a genuine community with a large cross section of gamers. It would take an extraordinarily motivated (and slightly sad) individual to sign up for a LOTR specialist board, or Nid or whatever, purely to start being negative about that product. What Dakka has, which perhaps is much rarer on other forums, is a pretty tolerant moderator team, combined with a whole range of different perspectives which aren't necessarily all going to be positive about everything all the time.
The Division Of Joy wrote: The problem is that some people have grown up with GW as a company, and the company has grown with them. The dakka-ite grows up (sometimes) and doesn't like that GW has had to as well.
^^This. I've only recently got back into GW after a 10 - 15 year gap and it's a very different company from the one I remember...
I'm the same actually. And yes it's more expensive, and the magazine isn't as good. But it's a different world we live in now and things change. I bought a Hive Tyrant last week, it's a bloody fantastic sculpt, nothing like that would have existed. I have just bought a 2nd ed Carnifex from eBay and the difference is brilliant
People feel like they own a little bit of GW because it's filled a space in their hearts for an age. But really, it's the hobby that has, not the company. That's why if I ever feel like I'm not happy, I'll buy from one of the many other companies. I know my local club (Gobstyks, bit of free plugging there!) play plenty of different games.
The trouble with the internet is that everyone gets a chance to beleive that their opinion matters, when in fact it probably doesn't. But hell, where's the fun in just one big backslapping session when you can pass the time sniping at each other
Hivefleet Oblivion wrote: It's very Oedipal, in respect of the rejection of a father or authority figure. Some people are shocked and disgusted to realise that GW is a commercial company, which exists to make money and provide returns to its shareholders. Then a few people discover they like expressing that shock and disgust more than they do painting or using the product.
I think that's stretching the semi-technical term Oedipal well past it's breaking point.
I'm sure it's a normal psychodynamic process, but the oedipal complex is far more specific than what you are generalizing.
I don't see why GW couldn't just up the ticket price a little?
Perhaps send the coach to the one man store anyway, the people that want to go just meet at the store and go to meet the coach at a predetermined location...
Hivefleet Oblivion wrote: It's very Oedipal, in respect of the rejection of a father or authority figure. Some people are shocked and disgusted to realise that GW is a commercial company, which exists to make money and provide returns to its shareholders. Then a few people discover they like expressing that shock and disgust more than they do painting or using the product.
I think that's stretching the semi-technical term Oedipal well past it's breaking point.
I'm sure it's a normal psychodynamic process, but the oedipal complex is far more specific than what you are generalizing.
That and the old "GW is a company and exists to make money and give a return to its shareholders" is just an extremely weak and rather tin-eared excuse for their pattern of behaviour.
Anyway... this feels like bad news for me on a local gaming scene level, as the local GW manager has announced on facebook that, as a result of this decision, he will be working more closely with the local gaming club.
I have a horrible suspicion that non GW products are soon going to be frowned upon. I hope I'm wrong, but the main club runner is already a little.. zealous, in his GW support.
I just realised who I replied to. I know what happens to people that try and tell you what they think of your input on here, so I'll refrain from any reply that might give you the indication that I want to discuss things with you further. This is in no way meant to be insulting or against the rules on here in anyway, I just would like to be able to post on here in the future.
You've demonstrated a particular sensitivity with regard to criticism of anything in the Nid thread...
Why would criticism be offensive? The only thing that would be bad would be an imposed groupthink, a need to pick on "minority viewpoints" or an obsession with complaining rather than gaming. But that wouldn't be offensive, rather a little sad.
That and the old "GW is a company and exists to make money and give a return to its shareholders" is just an extremely weak and rather tin-eared excuse for their pattern of behaviour.
But it's reality, isn't it? Google short termism UK Plc and you'll find that this is a well-known phenomenon. That's not to say that the short-termism isn't irritating, but I personally find that GW's attempts to keep manufacturing in the UK make them more acceptable than many other Brit Plcs.
Anyways, gotta say we hugely enjoyed our trip to Warhammer World in the summer, but the idea of being taken there in a coach from our local GW ain't my idea of fun - it would be interesting to hear from someone who's done the trip, of what the take-up was like.
Cuts both ways. Yeah, trotting out "they're a business and businesses have to make money" as a blanket excuse is tedious, but so is criticising what are obviously commercial decisions for being thus. You kind of invite the "it's a commercial decision" defense when you complain about commercial decisions for not having more heart. The whole discussion's pretty pointless.
You've demonstrated a particular sensitivity with regard to criticism of anything in the Nid thread...
Why would criticism be offensive? The only thing that would be bad would be an imposed groupthink, a need to pick on "minority viewpoints" or an obsession with complaining rather than gaming. But that wouldn't be offensive, rather a little sad.
I don't know, why would criticism be offensive? You seemed to react negatively to something I said that was unarguably positive, so you seem better qualified than I to answer.
Splendid quotation of a partial sentence and attempt to have a subtle dig that goes under the Mod radar BTW, all things that will encourage me to take your "minority viewpoint" oh so seriously.
Bull0 wrote: Cuts both ways. Yeah, trotting out "they're a business and businesses have to make money" as a blanket excuse is tedious, but so is criticising what are obviously commercial decisions for being thus. You kind of invite the "it's a commercial decision" defense when you complain about commercial decisions for not having more heart. The whole discussion's pretty pointless.
I never complained about this not having any heart. My original comment was more about how much one can cut (in the context of a business decision) before one runs out of things to cut or begins to really hurt themselves.
Generally, the discussion is about if the business decision is wise, though. Meaning, even as a commerciial, bottom line decision, does the decision make sense?
Given GW's dwindling sales and market share, questioning the decision making of their managment is probably valid.
In this case, I think a lot of folks are over valuing the loss leader aspect of these trips. Meaning, while they might result in people buying stuff, I wonder if there is an actual increase, or is it that maybe people that are keen to tour Warhammer World are going to buy more GW regardless?
Also, regardless of the validity of a decision, if it hurts consumers, I think consumers can, you know, kvetch a bit about it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I never complained about this not having any heart. My original comment was more about how much one can cut (in the context of a business decision) before one runs out of things to cut or begins to really hurt themselves.
that seems to be the real question, doesn't it? And I mean than in a totally sincere way. Virtually all profits from the last few years have been from cost cutting, not expanding sales. You don't need an MBA to understand what that means for hte long term viability of a company.
Honestly I don't think this is a bad business decision, and I agree with Polonius that we might be overstating just how much of a "loss leader" such an Invasion programme might have been.
But at the same time it just looks like another cost-cutting measure from a company that's quickly running out of things to cut.
But at the same time it just looks like another cost-cutting measure from a company that's quickly running out of things to cut.
You might get a good price for your old x-box from the pawn shop, but selling everything you own to buy your girlfriend gifts instead of getting a job is still a bad idea.
That is properly sad news.
Invasions were a great event series.
Although now the shops are nearly all down to 1 staff member, who is left to supervise/corral a coach load of gamers? Think we should have seen this coming after what happened with games day . . .
Polonius wrote: Generally, the discussion is about if the business decision is wise, though. Meaning, even as a commerciial, bottom line decision, does the decision make sense?
Given GW's dwindling sales and market share, questioning the decision making of their managment is probably valid.
Yeah, except at this point, GW's management can be trusted to make very short-sighted decisions very often. It's depressing, it's frustrating, but have we really not gotten used to it yet?
Not losing money, no. But their revenue and profits have been flat for a number of years, despite fairly compelling evidence that the wargaming market as a whole is growing, and a number of price increases and cost cutting measures.
So while they're not even close to being in any sort of financial danger, it is a fair assessment to say that their piece of the pie is getting smaller, and their reaction to this is to become more insular and controlling.
Well then surely people that want to keep playing the GW based rules of the wider wargaming hobby, should be pleased that the company is cutting expenditure where it thinks it can? And I guess the natural reaction to a crowded marketplace is to try and tightly control what share they have Azreal? This might be me simplifying it slightly.
The only worry will be when the company starts losing money I guess. Otherwise it's probably good that they are 'getting their house in order' to set the company out for the future.
The Division Of Joy wrote: Well then surely people that want to keep playing the GW based rules of the wider wargaming hobby, should be pleased that the company is cutting expenditure where it thinks it can? And I guess the natural reaction to a crowded marketplace is to try and tightly control what share they have Azreal? This might be me simplifying it slightly.
The only worry will be when the company starts losing money I guess. Otherwise it's probably good that they are 'getting their house in order' to set the company out for the future.
You are misunderstanding. The wargaming miniature market isn't crowded, all evidence points that it is growing.
If GW is having no growth in a growing market, then that means that their market share is decreasing. If you add the price increases and cost cutting to the picture (and still end up with no growth), then that means that not only is their market share decreasing, their player base must be decreasing as well which in turn means fewer people for GW players to play against and THAT is a valid concern for every GW fan.
Despite all of this, GW apparently isn't taking any steps to regrow their player base, they are just trying to increase their profit margin from those that remain...
The Division Of Joy wrote: Well then surely people that want to keep playing the GW based rules of the wider wargaming hobby, should be pleased that the company is cutting expenditure where it thinks it can? And I guess the natural reaction to a crowded marketplace is to try and tightly control what share they have Azreal? This might be me simplifying it slightly.
The only worry will be when the company starts losing money I guess. Otherwise it's probably good that they are 'getting their house in order' to set the company out for the future.
I guess it boils down to the methods used to exert control. GW are in a position to compete on price and quality that must be the envy of any other company in the sector. They could simply be the biggest by positioning themselves as the first choice for quality and price. They could divert resources into developing Warhammer into the most playable system out there, supported by the nicest, most affordable models and a readily accessible network of shops and a large, global, network of enthusiastic hobbyists to play against.
Instead, they cut staff in stores, leading to the removal of services which might not have had any direct financial benefit, but undoubtedly had huge intangible ones (such as in store gaming) instigate aggressive, heavy handed legal action, which has cost them more in terms of finance and goodwill than they could ever have hoped to recover if they'd been successful (Chapterhouse) threatened the online community for daring to get enthusiastic about a product before they said they could (40K Radio) and manipulated their relationship with third party retailers in order to achieve goals they wouldn't be able to through legal channels (Wayland/BoW) or simply to give themselves an edge (numerous stories of lost/incomplete/withheld orders when nearby GW stores have stock freely available, or selling things direct only because reasons.) Then factor in their continuing retreat from any sort of communication with their customer base, unless under very tightly controlled, heavily moderated conditions, and you just have a massive mess.
There are many ways to run a company, but I feel the way GW appear to tackle things is just the worst way, and they are squandering the opportunity to be something awesome by being petty and manipulative.
To let all of our customers know that Games Workshop will no longer be running Warhammer World Invasion events, we understand that many of you have enjoyed these events in the past and hoped to attend these in the future, to this we apologize for any inconvenience caused. We must clarify that this does not have any affect on other advertised Warhammer World events such as Throne Of Skulls, these events will be going forward as normal.
This does however give us a new and exciting opportunity to revolutionize the manner in which we run events in store, so as we take time to consider what events we will now be running, we would like to take the time to hear from you. This is a fantastic opportunity for you to seriously shape the manner in which Games Workshop Events will take going forward in your store.
Not sure why my post got deleted, people seem determined to talk about this in terms of GW's wider cost-cutting business strategy, and that strategy has regularly been identified as one of making the company more attractive to buyers, so it seemed pretty relevant.
Our local GW (which is about the size of a walk in closet, or feels that way) is a one employee store, and is closed 2 days of the week, is that not how they do it in the UK too? If this really is all about having to close the shop I would figure they could run it on a day it is closed anyway. I can't imagine they do them often enough in an area that the employee would throw a fit, I know that most retail places hire on the understanding that extra hours may be necessary at times.
derek wrote: If this really is all about having to close the shop I would figure they could run it on a day it is closed anyway.
Good point. Although, my local store is closed monday-wednesday, so I guess that's probably a common pattern, and I guess most people are in school or work those days, which makes the whole thing a bit more of a challenge than doing it at the weekend.
Monday and Tuesday here. I figure it's a day trip and people could plan in advance for being out of school and work. Still, that is only if the cancellation is actually because the shops have to close during these trips.
That's the one, and at least two others before that. Has openly admitted that he deliberately presents a contrary view just to get a rise out of people. As HBMC has said it's kind of amusing if you know about it, but the problem is that someone un-knowing comes onto the forum, responds aggressively and then they are the ones who end up getting red ink or a posting ban. Which I don't think is very fair.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Honestly I don't think this is a bad business decision, and I agree with Polonius that we might be overstating just how much of a "loss leader" such an Invasion programme might have been.
But at the same time it just looks like another cost-cutting measure from a company that's quickly running out of things to cut.
I would be prepared to give the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe it just wasn't feasible with the low staff levels. Same reason that Games Days aren't what they used to be, tournament support has been dropped etc. There just aren't enough boots on the ground to make it happen effectively.
But, the other way of looking at it is as yet another snub to the most loyal fans who are prepared to travel far to the GW 'Mecca'. Cancelling events that people have already bought tickets to as well probably doesn't help either.
Pacific wrote: That's the one, and at least two others before that. Has openly admitted that he deliberately presents a contrary view just to get a rise out of people. As HBMC has said it's kind of amusing if you know about it, but the problem is that someone un-knowing comes onto the forum, responds aggressively and then they are the ones who end up getting red ink or a posting ban. Which I don't think is very fair.
Urging people to add him to their Ignore lists everytime he trolls and derails a thread might help.
I've only been a member for two months and spoke to him just once, but I've already become so irritated by his trolling to the point that every thread he comments in becomes xRuslanx V Dakka Dakka, that I've added him to my list.
People arguing with him and quoting his comments doesn't exactly help though...
Pacific wrote: That's the one, and at least two others before that. Has openly admitted that he deliberately presents a contrary view just to get a rise out of people. As HBMC has said it's kind of amusing if you know about it, but the problem is that someone un-knowing comes onto the forum, responds aggressively and then they are the ones who end up getting red ink or a posting ban. Which I don't think is very fair.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Honestly I don't think this is a bad business decision, and I agree with Polonius that we might be overstating just how much of a "loss leader" such an Invasion programme might have been.
But at the same time it just looks like another cost-cutting measure from a company that's quickly running out of things to cut.
I would be prepared to give the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe it just wasn't feasible with the low staff levels. Same reason that Games Days aren't what they used to be, tournament support has been dropped etc. There just aren't enough boots on the ground to make it happen effectively.
But, the other way of looking at it is as yet another snub to the most loyal fans who are prepared to travel far to the GW 'Mecca'. Cancelling events that people have already bought tickets to as well probably doesn't help either.
I swear he was Mr Mystery before that. Getting people banned by antagonizing them is a pretty low act imho.
Trolling must raise his self esteem somehow. Devils advocate is one thing but being a D ick is another, so much wasted energy that could be put to better use.
So much injustice in the world and he decides to champion the GW cause? (Me thinks he works there)
As to the original post. It doesn't really effect me but it is sad that they drop this none the less.
When I do visit England the GW tour is on my to do list, along with eating at Heston Blumenthal restaurant and visiting castles, Scotland and anything else Tripadvisor says is good lol.
I suspect we might have seen the last of xruslanx in this current guise. Rest assured the Mods know who he is, and as added protection, I spotted the similarities weeks ago (HBMC can confirm this) so, much like our own little mini-Mandelbaum, he may well rise again, but we will be waiting...
Of course, he might choose to stick to his guns this time, and if so, I, along with several others, will enjoy dismantling his poorly informed, poorly expressed, poorly structured "arguments" for sport until the whole thing spins around again.
Ouze wrote: Those trips sound to me like a lot of fun.
I don't imagine I will ever get to visit Warhammer World or have a trip to Bugmans bar :/
You are really not missing much; I went a couple of times when I was in Nottingham for courses.
The games hall is just a big room with lots of tables (the last time I visited an Epic tourmanet was underway) ,a cheap looking 'gothic' facade and an ajoining GW store. Bugmans is basically a small pub that serves generic food and beer that happens to have a decent selection of boardgames (for a pub). The only good bit is upstairs where they have the studios various armies on display but as they have feautured heavily in GW's various publications you will have seen them all before.
If your in the area its probably worth going (it is afterall free) but its not something that I would recommend visiting for its own sake.
Necro wrote: You two make me laugh a lot. Along with Pacific you are my favorite posters.
I'm going to send you both a friend request
It's all in the wrist.
Seriously, glad to see at least some people read what I write in the appropriate tone, a mite too many get a smidge too serious on here, and the opinions a few have offered about me on the sole basis of what I write would be insulting if they weren't so far off the mark as to be delightfully hilarious.
Polonius wrote: Generally, the discussion is about if the business decision is wise, though. Meaning, even as a commerciial, bottom line decision, does the decision make sense?
Given GW's dwindling sales and market share, questioning the decision making of their managment is probably valid.
In this case, I think a lot of folks are over valuing the loss leader aspect of these trips. Meaning, while they might result in people buying stuff, I wonder if there is an actual increase, or is it that maybe people that are keen to tour Warhammer World are going to buy more GW regardless?
Also, regardless of the validity of a decision, if it hurts consumers, I think consumers can, you know, kvetch a bit about it.
I think part of the fundamental problem is that while it might now make good financial sense to eliminate the service, that it makes such good financial sense at this point it time has arguably been influenced by not-so-wise decisions in the past, such as one man stores.
It is a further symptom of an ongoing problem, or can easily be perceived as one, which is bad enough when it comes to consumer confidence and goodwill. GW does not have the sort of healthy reputation that would allow the company to effectively spin this decision.
In short, 'good' decision or no, it makes GW look bad and there's not much GW can do about that given its present market position. GW does not have the robust goodwill or healthy financial position to, for example, announce a cancellation of the service, candidly explain the reasoning for it, and explain to customers how it will be replacing this service with something that will be of greater benefit to them.
Consequently, all we have is a pretty bland notification and apology. It is easily chalked up on the growing list of ways in which GW is reducing the value of its products. What I find mind-boggling is how such instances as the one under discussion and other types of bad press seem to come with the damning regularity of Snowden leaks. It has been like this for well more than a year.
Polonius wrote: Generally, the discussion is about if the business decision is wise, though. Meaning, even as a commerciial, bottom line decision, does the decision make sense?
Given GW's dwindling sales and market share, questioning the decision making of their managment is probably valid.
In this case, I think a lot of folks are over valuing the loss leader aspect of these trips. Meaning, while they might result in people buying stuff, I wonder if there is an actual increase, or is it that maybe people that are keen to tour Warhammer World are going to buy more GW regardless?
Also, regardless of the validity of a decision, if it hurts consumers, I think consumers can, you know, kvetch a bit about it.
I think part of the fundamental problem is that while it might now make good financial sense to eliminate the service, that it makes such good financial sense at this point it time has arguably been influenced by not-so-wise decisions in the past, such as one man stores.
It is a further symptom of an ongoing problem, or can easily be perceived as one, which is bad enough when it comes to consumer confidence and goodwill. GW does not have the sort of healthy reputation that would allow the company to effectively spin this decision.
In short, 'good' decision or no, it makes GW look bad and there's not much GW can do about that given its present market position. GW does not have the robust goodwill or healthy financial position to, for example, announce a cancellation of the service, candidly explain the reasoning for it, and explain to customers how it will be replacing this service with something that will be of greater benefit to them.
Consequently, all we have is a pretty bland notification and apology. It is easily chalked up on the growing list of ways in which GW is reducing the value of its products. What I find mind-boggling is how such instances as the one under discussion and other types of bad press seem to come with the damning regularity of Snowden leaks. It has been like this for well more than a year.
My personal belief is some or all of the behaviour comes from an attempt by Kirby to drag the company to the point where he can launch his golden parachute. Much easier to wield the hatchet than put effort into building up customer goodwill and leading the market, that gak be hard
I feel that GW's biggest problem at present (and for awhile) is the lack of people playing the game period. Finding "GOOD MATURE" people to play against is getting harder and harder in Oz. As has been said by many others, their market share is shrinking. Closing things that support the gaming hobby and enthusing people about your product is a mistake. Like withdrawing support to tournaments that demand WYSIWYG and drive your sales. All the while prizes and expenses related to this are deductible as a tax write off and I can't understand why any business would relinquish this? No really why would any business let this go it is insane.
While I love the painting aspect of the hobby, all my old gaming buddies are not playing anymore and have moved on. Beer and pretzel games are great with mates, but going to a club and getting curb stomped by riptide spam is a waste of time for me (Also no beer and pretzels there).
I am more sentimental and have fond memories of games gone by to bail and yet getting a game is elusive. I want this company to succeed however they seem hellbent on driving the company to smaller and smaller markets. I hate golf with a passion and would rather spend my days with mates playing games, than on the green (sorry to people who dig golf, its just not my kind of scene).
Forgeworld stuff is on par with GW's prices (Yes I know its the same company) and their embargo has really hurt the Australian market in my opinion. If GW would embrace the internet and work with independent local game store rather than drive them out of business when they identify a profitable market then so much the better. The days of running stores in malls with crazy high rents to get kids in for a one off purchase to be recycled on the ebay market are long gone. Local games shops do more to promote their product through self preservation than their stores ever could.
I have seen posters say forget the Australian market before however: in days gone by Australia has been a very lucrative market for them and could be again easily with a sensible approach.
The HHH Hobby is shrinking, not growing down here. Now as someone that understands the investment market, I understand the need to sure up the share price and offer dividends to retain investors as dividends are all the rage at the moment in the current climate. However this plan has a limited life and Kirby better pull the cord on the golden parachute soon or he will miss his chance to dump his stock. The GW stock is poison to a long term portfolio (No this is the opinion of many analysts not just mine). They are at the bone and it is now a gamble to hold for a buyout or lose points in the death of a thousand cuts.
Now many may disagree with me on what I have posted above because of their passion for the hobby however do your own in-depth research and then tell me this is a growing company.
I love the GW brand and universe however at the moment their most valuable product is their IP.
It can also be amazingly hard to reverse a bad decision.
It is also amazing how often that a company, rather than unmake a bad decision, will create numerous work arounds - to keep the system working without removing the bad decision.
Even if the work arounds are harder than merely changing back to the earlier methods.
Part of that has to do with people not wanting to get saddled with the blame, and part of that has to do with people wanting to make the system work.
As the koala says - "You want to know the real definition of a conspiracy? One guy makes a mistake, and six guys clean it up."
And it gets worse when a whole lot of decisions are made at the same time - trying to figure out which ones made the kitten go asplody....
The Auld Grump, even if the bad decision is found it is usually too late for the kitten....
Granted from the prospective of one thread I see where your coming and could agree with you, however I suggest you read ALL his previous posts before you jump to your conclusions.
Its not about one post, you have to take all the posts in to get the full picture. Its a rich collage of many sock puppets.
I can also assure you that I feel no disgust towards myself for the opinions that I have expressed.
I am what I am and I express clearly how I feel towards my environment.
We reap what we sow and that includes all of us.
If you still feel the same after reading his previous threads then that is your right to do so.
While the OP doesn't really bother me, the trend it represents continues to turn me away from GW and towards more interesting alternatives (many through kickstarter - deadzone etc). Having read through some of xruslanx's back catalogue of posts it would be fair to say they are one-sided to say the least and negative towards anything (and anyone) that isn't pro-GW. His responses to people disliking what GW are doing currently just focus on everyone being haters, rather than fans - who would like to see better product and a reasonable price and not getting screwed over by the decisions made. It gets a little hard to see the good at times when you get fed so much s***.
Necro wrote: Granted from the prospective of one thread I see where your coming and could agree with you, however I suggest you read ALL his previous posts before you jump to your conclusions.
Its not about one post, you have to take all the posts in to get the full picture. Its a rich collage of many sock puppets.
I can also assure you that I feel no disgust towards myself for the opinions that I have expressed.
I am what I am and I express clearly how I feel towards my environment.
We reap what we sow and that includes all of us.
If you still feel the same after reading his previous threads then that is your right to do so.
As Throwback stated - we reap what we sow - and X is currently reaping his harvest. He plowed the field, planted the field, and fertilized it well....
Throwback wrote: I read most of this thread and the way xruslanx has been treated is absolutely disgusting. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.
You did nothing other than socially ostracise someone for giving their opinion in a respectful way.
That's right, you socially ostracised someone on a WARHAMMER forum for god's sake. And for the crime of having a contrary opinion no less.
Let's give some context to this: xruslanx has a long history of trolling, ridiculous arguments, ignoring everything anyone says in response to his ridiculous arguments and endlessly repeating them as if the conversation never happened, making grand claims about what is and isn't possible in game design without every playing anything but GW games, etc. Oh, and claiming that playing a non-GW game is like having sex with animals.
So, once you know the history you see that this thread was just more of the same and people just have very little patience left for him.
I like how he was stopped from posting in here because he had someone on ignore and stated the reasons why, now people in here are saying to put him on ignore and saying why!
Maybe he didn't have enough posts eh 'rolls eyes'
And Peregrine, nothing like a bit of over statement to get the juices flowing eh...
Ouze wrote: Those trips sound to me like a lot of fun.
I don't imagine I will ever get to visit Warhammer World or have a trip to Bugmans bar :/
You are really not missing much; I went a couple of times when I was in Nottingham for courses.
The games hall is just a big room with lots of tables (the last time I visited an Epic tourmanet was underway) ,a cheap looking 'gothic' facade and an ajoining GW store. Bugmans is basically a small pub that serves generic food and beer that happens to have a decent selection of boardgames (for a pub). The only good bit is upstairs where they have the studios various armies on display but as they have feautured heavily in GW's various publications you will have seen them all before.
If your in the area its probably worth going (it is afterall free) but its not something that I would recommend visiting for its own sake.
In it's defence, some of the bigger theme tables are awesome, but otherwise I agree with you. The main hall is essentially just rows of Realm Of Battle boards with 3/4 scenery pieces on them in a castle facade, the attached store is tiny and no longer stocks any mail order only stuff and only a small range of forgeworld. Bugmans bar is just like any other bar except there's a few GW themed items on display. The food is expensive but alright, nothing to write home about. The hall of miniatures is pretty cool, but doesn't seem to get updated. So it's worth a visit, if you happen to be in Nottingham anyway and at a loose end. I personally wouldn't visit it from anywhere else unless you're planning a game, and if I was in the area I'd rather be visiting some of the smaller manufacturers that will be more interesting (Foundry, Mantic, Warlord) and friendly.
Throwback wrote: I read most of this thread and the way xruslanx has been treated is absolutely disgusting. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.
You did nothing other than socially ostracise someone for giving their opinion in a respectful way.
That's right, you socially ostracised someone on a WARHAMMER forum for god's sake. And for the crime of having a contrary opinion no less.
As has been stated, you need to understand X's posting history. Judging from your post count, you probably don't have much experience reading his posts. I'd suggest clicking on his screen name to pull up his user profile and posting history, and then start going through the past year's worth of his posts to see the kind of contributions he typically makes to discussions.
Typically, I don't even respond to him anymore because it's largely a waste of time. He's not someone with whom you can have a discussion because he's not interested in hearing any opinions that don't agree with his own, regardless of how well supported or argued those contrary opinions might be. Then, he makes the most ridiculous counter-arguments imaginable. Seriously, as has been mentioned, he once stated that he didn't need to try different gaming systems to know they were bad the same way he didn't need to have sex with animals to know that was bad. The dude equated trying game systems other than GW to having sex with animals, and that was his justification for not having tried any other game systems, despite the fact that the continuously stated that no other game system was as good as GW.
I've been a member here since pre-conversion; I guess about 10 years total. He's exactly the 4th person I've ever put on ignore, and the only one I've put on ignore in 3+ years.
The Division Of Joy wrote: I like how he was stopped from posting in here because he had someone on ignore and stated the reasons why, now people in here are saying to put him on ignore and saying why!
Peregrine wrote: Let's give some context to this: xruslanx has a long history of trolling, ridiculous arguments, ignoring everything anyone says in response to his ridiculous arguments and endlessly repeating them as if the conversation never happened, making grand claims about what is and isn't possible in game design without every playing anything but GW games, etc. Oh, and claiming that playing a non-GW game is like having sex with animals.
Okay, so people apparently know all that and yet they engage in conversation with him, however basic it may be.
Is that some sort of compulsive behaviour disorder or something? What am I missing here?
(The AuldGrump)
That said it has taken me 4 years to get to 240 posts.
