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Bullockist wrote:
You are saying GW is my Mum and I have carnal desires for my mother?

Here, it seems more like GW is your father. You want to kill it. Now can you let this go ?

 kitch102 wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.

I was there, having a game, by christ you guys were noisy!

Ot, I'm an idealist and I have learnt that things rarely work out how I'd like them to, but here goes anyway.

Cost cutting = less lost profit = less overheads = potential to reduce product prices without sacrificing on quality! HUZZAH!!

Though it is depressingly easy to argue that quality has already been sacrificed.

Finecast is such a wonderful thing....

So... just cost cutting - regardless of whether it hurts the quality/availability/enjoyment of the product. HUZZAH!!

And another price increase! HUZZAH!!

And more restrictions on retailers! HUZZAH!!

The Auld Grump, yeah... nope. Nothing there to cheer.

Though it is depressingly easy to argue that quality has already been sacrificed.

Finecast is such a wonderful thing....

So... just cost cutting - regardless of whether it hurts the quality/availability/enjoyment of the product. HUZZAH!!

And another price increase! HUZZAH!!

And more restrictions on retailers! HUZZAH!!

The Auld Grump, yeah... nope. Nothing there to cheer.

Sadly, oh, so true...

Other companies are selling similar quality if not better miniatures cheaper, Vallejo (for one) makes better paints and brushes, and going into a GW store is a chore, not a pleasure, and has been for years...

Why would I ever deal with GW anymore?

(Oh, and if I need a 40K fix, Forgeworld is cheaper to Australia then GW "mainstream" products...)

 Medium of Death wrote:
Presumeably this experience wasn't free? Why cut it?

It could be a situation where the ticket sales cover some of the cost of running the event, and GW takes the loss on the rest to promote the game and hopefully get people to buy more stuff later. It's exactly the kind of thing you'd want to cut if you're worried about making the next financial report look good. It eliminates a loss immediately, and the probable lost sales won't happen until sometime in the future and can't be directly attributed to the decision.

Its so black and white on internet forums (or is that black and orange). Person X says person Y is being irrational but Y holds the common opinion so X is being rude about it. Therefore person Y and those those that support his common held view is now able to deride person X.

It is often the case when X tries to put forwad the view that GW is not all bad. For they are now calling people haters. Y and co. Do not like this. So let's all call X a knight... Binary.

GW is not evil. GW is a business. If these events don't make sense for them, for what ever reason (I think logistics have an equal part to play than mearly cash), then fine. Only they have all the data regard cost vs benefits.

Do GW need to rethink their relationship with their customer's? Since we are all customers, and no one I have ever seen on here has ever defend them to the last, I would say yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They are like the IoM. Beset on all sides.

The hobby is shifting away from them with other companies, new business models (kickstarters, 3D printing) and More contemporary ways to keep ourselves entertained (video gaming).
This decision may come back to bite them. Maybe they have something else up their sleeves. Who knows...

Ultimately I hope the get the right formula since I am a fan of their work.

Zanderchief wrote:
GW is not evil.

You're right. We aren't saying that GW is evil. Shortsighted? Yes. Incompetent? Yes. But those are flaws of a business, not some kind of moral issue.

They are like the IoM. Beset on all sides.

Not really. GW's biggest problems are entirely self-inflicted.

That and they have a marketing department that gets paid for not doing much, except saying "this is great news"

It actually really annoys me that due to the fact that they went into a 1 man store style that they shut down a truly unique and GW experience of invasions of GW world.


Marketing, what is marketing?

How much more can GW cut before they reach a point where they cannot cut any more?

 WarOne wrote:
How much more can GW cut before they reach a point where they cannot cut any more?

Well, let me put it this way, I expect them to start putting out books that make the cut and paste abomination of Escalation look like a shining example of great game design and literature at an excellent price.

 kitch102 wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.

I was there, having a game, by christ you guys were noisy!

Ot, I'm an idealist and I have learnt that things rarely work out how I'd like them to, but here goes anyway.

Cost cutting = less lost profit = less overheads = potential to reduce product prices without sacrificing on quality! HUZZAH!!

Prices will NEVER go down. Even if GW reduced all its own costs to infintesimal levels, why the hell would they reduce their profit by reducing prices? They THINK that the market will bear their current prices (jury's out on that...) so then lower costs=higher profits. lower prices=less profits (than if prices remained the same).

Frankly, that's the "genius" of jacking up the prices at every single new release. it acclimates everyone to insane prices. For example, I simply cannot aford the new Tyranid releases, though I like them. If I magically got a better job with a higher salary, I might decide that I could afford them. Now, I'm not sure of the wisdom of putting off potential customers like me with such high prices, but it's obviously part of a certain pricing strategy. I personally hate it, so much so that I am actively resentful, but the sharholders may like it, and it may be sound business policy.

-C6

 WarOne wrote:
How much more can GW cut before they reach a point where they cannot cut any more?

They can always fire the marketing department and the legal department as they are doing a fine job

Zanderchief wrote:
GW is not evil. GW is a business.

1. No one said GW is "evil".
2. Being a business doesn't automatically excuse them from making bad decisions. If anything it makes it more likely.

Every time I've been to Wargammer World it's been quiet, but their gaming hall is vast and bar and facilities are good. I find it difficult to believe that they are stopping these trips because they need to 'free up room'. These trips should be guaranteed bums on seats, unless no one was actually going and their buses were mostly empty.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Zanderchief wrote:
GW is not evil. GW is a business.

1. No one said GW is "evil".
2. Being a business doesn't automatically excuse them from making bad decisions. If anything it makes it more likely.

Though you think it'd help them not make those sort of decisions.

When is said they are not evil I didn't say that people explicitly said they were.

However a lot of people spend a lot of time 2nd guessing and pouring negativity into every thing GW does. But then hey, this is the internet right :-)

For all we know the guy at GW Lenton that managed this left and they just can't be arsed to get someone else to do it.

This is not to say it isn't a dumb move. After all every time I get back to the UK I drive up to WW. I love going and I am a full grown (who am i kidding) adult. i will def make the time to head there of Xmas.

I can only imagine how amazing it is to go there for those young'un's. The visit of one 10 year old kid, who gets hooked after one special visit to GW HQ, over the course of his life is worth a pretty penny. Get them hooked young :-)

 Ouze wrote:
Pictures also if you have them.

From their Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/GWWarhammerWorld/photos_albums

Hi everyone,

John here from the Warhammer World Events Team - there have been a few questions about Invasions going forward so I thought it would be good to let you all know the following:

Games Workshop has chosen to cancel all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World. We've done this because we decided that they were not the right thing for our customers or Games Workshop going forward, they are impractical to run properly to give everyone the best possible experience.

Apologies for any inconvenience caused everyone.

If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact GW customer services at the following number:

uk.custserv@gwplc.com
01159140000

He used 'going forward' TWICE. What an utter cretin.

It is indeed mainly cost related.

Mainly due indeed to the growing number of the stores which are one man sorry .. person operations. Because of course those stores can't really be shut and its increasingly awkward/expensive to provide cover for those stores.

Relating to this it's viewed as somewhat unfair that this situation means that really only certain stores would be able to offer this experience to their customers.


.. YMMV here of course.


Warhammer World has a few albums/pictures from some of the invasion days

https://www.facebook.com/GWWarhammerWorld/photos_albums

Which are worth a flick through if you get the chance.



I went to one of these...w ell it was more of an early prototype version before it became as organised as it [s]is[/] sorry... was and had an enjoyable enough experience.

Mainly because WW -- if one is a Warhammer/GW geek -- is worth a visit .

I hope they are able to sort something out in the future.

Surely, if GW stores having fewer gaming tables in shops, moving to small 1-man shops that a table cannot fit, and cranking up the scenery sizes, the best way to get players buying is take them to showcase a well laid-out gaming venue.

If players can be shown a full set of Wall of Martyrs, and all the other table goodies, they'll want to buy them to play at home.

Is the future of GW stores to have GW's website running behind the counter, and nothing on the shelves? Direct-only and no gaming tables, a trip to WHW is the only way lots of people will get to see the full GW experience.
Not that anyone's going to Gamesday any more....

Zanderchief wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
They are like the IoM. Beset on all sides.

I'd say GW has been more like emperor Caligula lately.

And they've taken down the Facebook post(s) about it...

beast_gts wrote:
And they've taken down the Facebook post(s) about it...

You expected otherwise?
Customer opinion shouldn't be aired in public....

 Skinnereal wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
And they've taken down the Facebook post(s) about it...

You expected otherwise?
Customer opinion shouldn't be aired in public....

They put a new message up trying to spin it and someone asked if they were going to delete negative comments from this one as well so they nuked it from orbit.

Im fortunate to be within driving distance of warhammer world, it is a great place even the GF likes when we go as she can go look at all the minis in the hall and the food at bugmans is something else.

It’s a shame to see that people living further away (or haven’t got access to a car) may miss out on this opportunity.

I’m rather inclined to take the statement at face value.

It was quite expensive to go an invasion trip as you paid something towards entrance and the coach on top. I think our local GW was asking about 45 quid for the next one they had planned. So I’m not sure what costs they are cutting, as the store is able to still function with one staff member on the coach and warhammer world staff are present anyway. However, the experience could be quite varied. Of couse things could have improved since I last went on one, but stores set to play each other would sent different numbers, or sometimes would cancel at last minute, or arrive late, and there was an element of on-the-hoof about the day itself.

Against this its worth noting that Warhammer World has accelerated their own event programme over the last couple of years. There are campaign weekends, kill-team events, doubles, regular Throne of Skulls, hobby related events. The latest Calendar has very few weekends free December to March. So given the option of experiencing Warhammer World through one of these highly organised events or the more shambolic Invasions, I can see why they would prefer the latter.

There’s probably questions about supervision of children and liability as well, especially if there is significant construction work on the site at the moment. I always thought it odd dispatching 50 odd kids off on a bus with a minimally qualified GW enthusiast in charge.

 torgoch wrote:
the store is able to still function with one staff member on the coach

Nope. My local store is a one-man so is closed when these things happen.

 torgoch wrote:
the experience could be quite varied.

That seems to be one of their points:

Games Workshop has looked very carefully at running coach trips and visits like this, and has decided that they are impractical to run properly to give everyone the best possible experience. Rather than give people a mixed experience, we're concentrating on the events and activities where we can give consistent quality. If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact GW customer services at the following number: uk.custserv@gwplc.com 01159140000 ~ Lise

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Woaw this decision makes me think of this


Sorry xruslanx that i'm hating, Season greetings!

Well actually what appears in your pic is an Ouroboros (Greek for snake eating his own tail).

The Ouroboros often symbolize self-reflexivity or cyclicality, especially in the sense of something constantly re-creating itself, the eternal return and staff like that. I guess this isn't what you meant .

Its a shame that GW seems so confident with their market share they seem unable to comprehend that it may change.

With price rises, stores no longer being gaming venues, impose harsh restrictions on third party sellers(I have never seen a company with so much distain for those who sell their product) and the large number of other gaming companies on the rise GW are not going to be the biggest game in town forever.

Having stores to play in, trips to warhammer world and other events is all advertising for GW it helps get new customers in and gives them a place to use the product (and then buy more) without these things they will find their market share dwindling. If it dwindles too greatly they may find their policies in regard to third party sellers biting them in the ass.

 Alpharius wrote:
How the hell is anything oedipal in here?!?

I take joy in any accusation that says more about the accuser than the accused.

Part of me assumes that rather then oedipal, they meant "visceral." I'm no shrink, but seeing the sheer passionate dislike for much of GW's decisions would startle the casual observer. I think it makes sense given the investment made into the hobby (money, time, creativity, and emotion), but there are times when it gets a bit much.

Still, another part thinks that the poster meant oedipal. Meaning he see GW as a father figure, which is fascinating in its own right. I mean, you aren't a full grown adult until you work through your daddy issues (mine was a good provider that was in no authoritative, leaving me inherently work against weak authority figures).




Automatically Appended Next Post:
On topic... meh?

Just because something is popular, does not make it profitable. Just because something is profitable, does not make it profitable enough. And just because something makes a lot of profit does not mean it's worth the hassle.

I"m not sure this is part of the more recent firesale mentality of GW, but rather their long term strategy to stop subsidizing the hobby community.

It seems all GW venues are having difficulty during these hard financial times:

Games Workshop: Fulchester wrote:The ravening hordes come, day after day. We are tired and weary, and no matter how hard we try to repel, still they come, the unrelenting horde.

Of confused parents. Asking for 'little men' for Christmas. We're getting bored of re-directing them to Steve's Midget Emporium.