What do you think is completely pointless wargear (and put on whom) in 40k and why? It doesnt have to be the most pointless as im looking for a list here.
I'll start with combat shields on 1w SM sargeants. 5pts to make a 14pt model 1/6th more survivable but only against weapons that would ignore their armour save to begin with... still a waste of points on a vet sarge! Totally unreliable, circumstantial and mb for the same points makes them more dangerous in more situations.
Aura of Dark Glory for CSM anything. Unless the model can't take Sigil of Corruption or comes with AoDG standard (like Dark Apostle) there is no reason to waste the points on this piece of wargear....ever. It's dumb and pointless and doesn't stack with Sigil of Corruption.
AoDG = +5 Inv. for something like 5 or 10 pts.
SoC = +4 Inv. for the same price.
Why are there two of these? Just to make Chaos players feel better about how little GW gives a crap about us? Insulting. -__-
Commissars in a CCS for IG. Honestly, paying 35 points, I believe, on another squishy model that can give your opponent Slay the Warlord if you fail a morale check unless you have some other Ld 10 HQ.
Commissar: *BLAM* "COWARDICE REQUIRES SUMMARY EXECUTION!"
Guardsman in squad: "Commissar... That was Creed! THAT WAS CREEEEEEEEED!"
(Gunfire ensues, transmission cut off)
TheRedWingArmada wrote: Aura of Dark Glory for CSM anything. Unless the model can't take Sigil of Corruption or comes with AoDG standard (like Dark Apostle) there is no reason to waste the points on this piece of wargear....ever. It's dumb and pointless and doesn't stack with Sigil of Corruption.
AoDG = +5 Inv. for something like 5 or 10 pts.
SoC = +4 Inv. for the same price.
Why are there two of these? Just to make Chaos players feel better about how little GW gives a crap about us? Insulting. -__-
AoDG = 15 pts
SoC = 25 pts
It's taking AoDG for 15pts and MoT for 15pts to get a 4++ when SoC gives you a 4++ for 5 pts less.
40pts for a 3++ save... eh. Feels pricey.
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Sniper Rifle for a Farseer? (other than the fun/surprise factor)
Scrolls of Magnus (man, are these bad)
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On the "best" side.
Last Memory of Yuranthos
Earth Caste Pilot Array
Puretide Chip thingy
Shadowfield
Mindshackle Scarabs
Mantel of the Laughting God
Liquefier (AP 2 flamer FTW!)
Soultrap (Because I once had a strength 65 Archon...)
Voltic Staves
Melta Bombs (because 9/10 they are useless, but that 1/10 WILL BE EPIC!)
Warscythe
Servo Skulls
Bad
Night Vision on the Avatar...with his 12" melta.
Animus Vitae
Blast Pistols
Any Necron weapon other then the Warscythe
Shuri-cannon on DR Exach
Flamer on FD Exarch
TheRedWingArmada wrote: Aura of Dark Glory for CSM anything. Unless the model can't take Sigil of Corruption or comes with AoDG standard (like Dark Apostle) there is no reason to waste the points on this piece of wargear....ever. It's dumb and pointless and doesn't stack with Sigil of Corruption.
AoDG = +5 Inv. for something like 5 or 10 pts.
SoC = +4 Inv. for the same price.
Why are there two of these? Just to make Chaos players feel better about how little GW gives a crap about us? Insulting. -__-
Its actually 10 points Cheaper and some Independant charcters can't take the sigil, Like warpsmith and Daemon Princes, IIRC.
Useless wargear is Icon of Despair, Fear is usless everything is fearless and if it isnt, your gonna probably eat it in CC anyways.
You can put him with an Icarus Lascannon for some fun with it, makes it slightly more useful than Night Vision on a Crimson Hunter Exarch (who won't turn up until turn 2 and will not make it to turn 5) - unless your opponent is using Imothek...
Automated repair system for Tau vehicles. At the end of each of your turns roll a d6 if the vehicle suffered a weapon destroyed or immobilized result (I think on that turn, so you only get one shot). on a 6 your vehicle gets un-immobalized or a weapon gets fixed. Doesn't repair any hull points.
Probably not the worst use of 5 points in the game...but dang it feels useless.
TheRedWingArmada wrote: Aura of Dark Glory for CSM anything. Unless the model can't take Sigil of Corruption or comes with AoDG standard (like Dark Apostle) there is no reason to waste the points on this piece of wargear....ever. It's dumb and pointless and doesn't stack with Sigil of Corruption.
AoDG = +5 Inv. for something like 5 or 10 pts. SoC = +4 Inv. for the same price.
Why are there two of these? Just to make Chaos players feel better about how little GW gives a crap about us? Insulting. -__-
Aura is 10pts cheaper than sigil. And they both stack with Mark of Tzeentch (not relevant for everyone, but still) I find the aura is great for small games where you need to be frugal with your points, but still want some kind of inv. save.
Which is not to say the chaos book isn't chock full of useless crap. Scrolls of Magnus leap immediately to mind.
A warp talon champion with two Gifts of Mutation...thats 50 points something that'll die to 9 bolter shots just like a normal marine. Add on veterans of the long war and a mark for 55-60 points.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Transdimensional beamer. Why would you ever want to give a jump infantry CC unit a heavy weapon...
Because I like saying "transdimensional beamer" casually in conversations.
I miss vortex grenades. Does anybody still have those? There was nothing like having a Genestealer Magus armed with a vortex grenade totally crap on a bloodthirster. Hilarious every time.
Taking hellfury missiles on a Vendetta always struck me as really, really silly. Especially since a Valkyrie with rocket pods costs about the same and can keep firing the pods. They aren't quite as good as the hellfury missiles, but they're not one-shot (then again, taking a Valkyrie over a Vendetta is also silly from a competitive standpoint).
Replacing a Chimera's multi-laser with a Heavy Bolter also always struck me as a questionable decision in most circumstances, though I do like the way the bolter turret looks.
Krak Grenades for Guard Heavy Weapons Teams. Can't take a Vox or Sergeant for that leadership and Orders boost, but they can take Krak grenades just because.
The Armour Indomitus for Space Marines. Hilariously expensive, and available only to models which already have access to some combination of artificer armour, Terminator armour, built-in invulnerable saves, and/or bikes. One phase of 2++ saves isn't worth the 20+ points' premium you'll be spending over normal wargear.
She makes all the archon's poisoned weapons 2+. The only ones he has access to are a venom blade (2+ already) and a splinter pistol, which is normally 4+. Not useless, but pretty close.
Envenomed blades on DE vehicles are also rather laughable, as is most of the wargear list.
As far as ridiculous goes, all those Tau buffmander/Crisis suit upgrades are ridiculously OP. You can just slap basically every special rule you want on every unit all at once.
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Musashi363 wrote: We've gone this far without mentioning the dimensional key? Now THAT is useless.
Yeah, that is probably the worst thought out piece of wargear in the game. I can maybe see it being worth it if the unit didn't have to kill something in cc. Even then it would still be pretty pointless.
KommissarKiln wrote:Commissars in a CCS for IG. Honestly, paying 35 points, I believe, on another squishy model that can give your opponent Slay the Warlord if you fail a morale check unless you have some other Ld 10 HQ.
Commissar: *BLAM* "COWARDICE REQUIRES SUMMARY EXECUTION!"
Guardsman in squad: "Commissar... That was Creed! THAT WAS CREEEEEEEEED!"
(Gunfire ensues, transmission cut off)
You cannot get commissars in CCSs; you can attach a Lord commissar but that is your own tactical mistake
Likan Wolfsheim wrote:Taking hellfury missiles on a Vendetta always struck me as really, really silly. Especially since a Valkyrie with rocket pods costs about the same and can keep firing the pods. They aren't quite as good as the hellfury missiles, but they're not one-shot (then again, taking a Valkyrie over a Vendetta is also silly from a competitive standpoint).
Hellfury and Hellfire missiles are both bad, they confuse the roles of the fliers. Basically Valks and Vends are both 130 points, and have different jobs. I do play with my Valkyrie about as often as with my Vendetta depending on whether I have a quadgun(and with Stronghold assault I am likely to have several).
I would otherwise parrot many of the responses already posted, biggest offender is Digi Weapons on the brotherhood champ, completely and utterly redundant.
Not that I'm liable to run Chosen anyways, but...
Double Lightning Claws for 30 points.
Really? Double the cost of a single claw for a single extra attack? Nice job there guys.
Fafnir13 wrote: Not that I'm liable to run Chosen anyways, but...
Double Lightning Claws for 30 points.
Really? Double the cost of a single claw for a single extra attack? Nice job there guys.
.
If you go that route, the whole points cost of the weapons for Chosen are bonkers.
Also a "useless" option for Zerkers, 2 plasma pistols, while plasma pistols are nice and all, at a 15pts pop on a 1W guy, and with no special CCW options, thats one of the stupidest thing i've ever seen.
Oh and the Icone of Nurgle for the plague is also nice,...giving a rule that 50% of the armies just ignores, yeah that a well spent 15pts.
Power scourge on Defiler...25pts for a S8 thing while you allreadu are S10, and on something that allrady cost 195pts...
Deamon of khorne on a DPrince...yeah Houza!, i have FC on a MC!
Fafnir13 wrote: Not that I'm liable to run Chosen anyways, but...
Double Lightning Claws for 30 points.
Really? Double the cost of a single claw for a single extra attack? Nice job there guys.
.
If you go that route, the whole points cost of the weapons for Chosen are bonkers.
Also a "useless" option for Zerkers, 2 plasma pistols, while plasma pistols are nice and all, at a 15pts pop on a 1W guy, and with no special CCW options, thats one of the stupidest thing i've ever seen.
Oh and the Icone of Nurgle for the plague is also nice,...giving a rule that 50% of the armies just ignores, yeah that a well spent 15pts.
Power scourge on Defiler...25pts for a S8 thing while you allreadu are S10, and on something that allrady cost 195pts...
Deamon of khorne on a DPrince...yeah Houza!, i have FC on a MC!
Well if you don't want to smash I figure the extra FC isn't too bad.
Though if we go by Icons, Icon of Flame: more expensive then fear and just as worthless.
The plasma Pistols have been costed that way since 2nd/3rd, where I figure they made sense back then.
Mind, the Icons also gives +1 to combat resolution. It allowed my Chosen to run down a Boyz mob who assaulted them once, instead of being stuck in combat one more turn.
Doesn't the Demon Prince for the chaos space marine codex not need Aura of Dark Glory since he is already a demon and thus benefits from a 5+ invulnerable save?
My nomination for most useless piece of wargear: the chainsword... Not statline benefit, no ap, no parry (see 2nd Ed) and for all intents and purposes gamewise it is as lethal a ccw (rusty screwdriver) or a pistolwhip from equipped pistol.... Why? I feel the chainsword should be str 4(user) whichever is higher, and AP5. I would like to see the parry rule come back also but right now I am happy enough at the possibility of pistol use in cc coming back(cypher).
Centurions?, the T5 W2 2+ Sm stuffs with Gravguns OR Siege drills that hit at S9 AP2 Init4?
Okay they don't have an invul save, but there is lots of ways to hand them an invul or cover save.
The only thing that did save my models vs those was because Kharn was involved in the combat and slaugthered them all, or else my squad would have just vanished.
Slayer le boucher wrote: Centurions?, the T5 W2 2+ Sm stuffs with Gravguns OR Siege drills that hit at S9 AP2 Init4?
Okay they don't have an invul save, but there is lots of ways to hand them an invul or cover save.
The only thing that did save my models vs those was because Kharn was involved in the combat and slaugthered them all, or else my squad would have just vanished.
But they look like a four year old drew them with ketchup and a squeeze bottle.
Ascalam 570647 6389888 873e1483a2a0453a8ced0454483c3e02.jp wrote: Lhamean in an archon's court.
She makes all the archon's poisoned weapons 2+. The only ones he has access to are a venom blade (2+ already) and a splinter pistol, which is normally 4+. Not useless, but pretty close.
Envenomed blades on DE vehicles are also rather laughable, as is most of the wargear list.
To be fair she is a 10pt model who comes with a 5pt weapon and an Eldar stat-line as well as an *almost* useless ability, there are worse ways to spend 10 pts. Say, on giving the Icon of Nurgle to possessed. All the pointlessness of the Icon of Nurgle combined with the fact that they *already* cause fear!
People have already mentioned Ichor Blood, the 2 awful icons, Aura for DP, as well as hilariously expensive Warp Talon Champs. I always wondered why Axe of Blind Fury grants rage, yet requires the MoK to wield (which grants rage).
j31c3n wrote: Auspex. Great, a crummy markerlight with a 12" range that only HQ choices can take. Why?
I've seen it used when trying to fill those last few points. Seen it used also when the HQ couldn't assault or it would be a bad idea too, but lowering the cover saves would be more beneficial towards shooting.
Blakman wrote: It is both ridiculous AND pointless to give your Dark Apostle the VotLW upgrade, even tho it is free.
Why on earth did Phil Kelley think that we would not want a free bonus against SM enemies?
I have to go with the MoT.
It is utterly senseless to put it on a psyker. Sure you get a +1 Inv save, but it makes the first mastery level useless...
Which makes no sense logically or fluff-wise.
And then there's the option to give the MoT to cultist units for +1 ppm.
It gives them a 6++ save, when they have a 6+. Whoop-dee-fething-doo. If I wanted survivable cannon fodder, I'd take Typhus and make them all zombies for free.
And then the MoT on a CSM unit. Why would you take that? For the 6++? To unlock the Icon that gives you soul blaze? Eh?
Big Blind Bill wrote: At 15 pts each they are far over priced. Normally in 6th its not even a good idea to shoot before you charge due to the increased charge distance.
This deserves to be here imo, even if you can make cool gunslinger pointsinks with them.
Big Blind Bill wrote: At 15 pts each they are far over priced. Normally in 6th its not even a good idea to shoot before you charge due to the increased charge distance.
This deserves to be here imo, even if you can make cool gunslinger pointsinks with them.
Big Blind Bill wrote: At 15 pts each they are far over priced. Normally in 6th its not even a good idea to shoot before you charge due to the increased charge distance.
This deserves to be here imo, even if you can make cool gunslinger pointsinks with them.
Big Blind Bill wrote: At 15 pts each they are far over priced. Normally in 6th its not even a good idea to shoot before you charge due to the increased charge distance.
This deserves to be here imo, even if you can make cool gunslinger pointsinks with them.
Big Blind Bill wrote: At 15 pts each they are far over priced. Normally in 6th its not even a good idea to shoot before you charge due to the increased charge distance.
This deserves to be here imo, even if you can make cool gunslinger pointsinks with them.
Big Blind Bill wrote: At 15 pts each they are far over priced. Normally in 6th its not even a good idea to shoot before you charge due to the increased charge distance.
This deserves to be here imo, even if you can make cool gunslinger pointsinks with them.
welshhoppo wrote: The Baleflamer upgrade for the Heldrake is ever so slightly OP.
Its not the weapon that is OP, its the ability of the Drake to Vector strike a transport open, and then use his long neck (360* turret weapon) to scorch the unit that came out of the wrecks.
Like many with who i talked about it, they all agree that the Heldrake shouldn't be a 360* AoF, but rather something like 180*.
welshhoppo wrote: The Baleflamer upgrade for the Heldrake is ever so slightly OP.
Its not the weapon that is OP, its the ability of the Drake to Vector strike a transport open, and then use his long neck (360* turret weapon) to scorch the unit that came out of the wrecks.
Like many with who i talked about it, they all agree that the Heldrake shouldn't be a 360* AoF, but rather something like 180*.
If we can have a better codex, you can limit us to a 180* AoF
Big Blind Bill wrote: At 15 pts each they are far over priced. Normally in 6th its not even a good idea to shoot before you charge due to the increased charge distance.
This deserves to be here imo, even if you can make cool gunslinger pointsinks with them.
I'd narrow this down to plasma pistols on Chaos Space Marines.
15 points - or I can have a meltagun for 10 points.
In what world is the plasma pistol ever worthwhile?
Big Blind Bill wrote: At 15 pts each they are far over priced. Normally in 6th its not even a good idea to shoot before you charge due to the increased charge distance.
This deserves to be here imo, even if you can make cool gunslinger pointsinks with them.
I'd narrow this down to plasma pistols on Chaos Space Marines.
15 points - or I can have a meltagun for 10 points.
In what world is the plasma pistol ever worthwhile?
Probably the worst I've found is the stormshield for henchmen squads. Costs 20 searchlights for a stormshield and 4 more searchlights for the acolyte for a total cost of 24 searchlights.
You may think thats not all that bad for a 3++, until you look at the crusaders on the same page for only 15 searchlights. I guess you could make an equivalent by giving the acolyte a power weapon as well.... for an extra 15 searchlights (total 39 searchlights... but he would still only have WS 3 where the crusader has WS4.
So maybe not stupid wargear, but terrible for cost effectiveness.
For pointless... I'd go with the 'nemesis deamon hammer' stuck on a dreadknight. It looks cool, but the only thing you get with your 10 searchlight investment is the concussive special rule.
That, and the 10 searchlight condemner boltgun. Not just because its 10 searchlights, but mostly because your wasting a spot for a real combi-weapon.
war wrote: Probably the worst I've found is the stormshield for henchmen squads. Costs 20 searchlights for a stormshield and 4 more searchlights for the acolyte for a total cost of 24 searchlights.
You may think thats not all that bad for a 3++, until you look at the crusaders on the same page for only 15 searchlights. I guess you could make an equivalent by giving the acolyte a power weapon as well.... for an extra 15 searchlights (total 39 searchlights... but he would still only have WS 3 where the crusader has WS4.
So maybe not stupid wargear, but terrible for cost effectiveness.
For pointless... I'd go with the 'nemesis deamon hammer' stuck on a dreadknight. It looks cool, but the only thing you get with your 10 searchlight investment is the concussive special rule.
That, and the 10 searchlight condemner boltgun. Not just because its 10 searchlights, but mostly because your wasting a spot for a real combi-weapon.
war wrote: Probably the worst I've found is the stormshield for henchmen squads. Costs 20 searchlights for a stormshield and 4 more searchlights for the acolyte for a total cost of 24 searchlights.
You may think thats not all that bad for a 3++, until you look at the crusaders on the same page for only 15 searchlights. I guess you could make an equivalent by giving the acolyte a power weapon as well.... for an extra 15 searchlights (total 39 searchlights... but he would still only have WS 3 where the crusader has WS4.
So maybe not stupid wargear, but terrible for cost effectiveness.
For pointless... I'd go with the 'nemesis deamon hammer' stuck on a dreadknight. It looks cool, but the only thing you get with your 10 searchlight investment is the concussive special rule.
That, and the 10 searchlight condemner boltgun. Not just because its 10 searchlights, but mostly because your wasting a spot for a real combi-weapon.
Termagant Stranglewebs (in their current incarnation). Such a shame, it's a really cool concept that could add a little spice to a common unit, but sadly it just isn't very well represented by the rules.
Icons on CSM Possessed: 3/5 of the Icons available are fundamentally pointless on Possessed: Soul Blaze is useless as you have no ranged weapons, you already have Fear due to being a Daemon, and Fearless is already included in your entry, and yet they still want people to pay 5pts for such "upgrades.
Valkyrie wrote: Icons on CSM Possessed: 3/5 of the Icons available are fundamentally pointless on Possessed: Soul Blaze is useless as you have no ranged weapons, you already have Fear due to being a Daemon, and Fearless is already included in your entry, and yet they still want people to pay 5pts for such "upgrades.
I'm going for the Kustom Mega Blasta that comes with Wazdakka Gutsmek.
His bike comes with a Dakkacannon that is S8 AP4 Assault 4. The Kustom Mega Blasta is S8 AP2 Assault 1, with Get's Hot!
Considering Wazdakka can only fire one weapon, why would Wazdakka, with his incredible BS of 2 ever choose to fire the Kustom Mega Blasta instead of the Dakkacannon?
Yeah I said it.
250 points. one more time, 250 points. I am pretty sure I could total the whole first page of this thread together and it would still be cheaper than 250 points.
What is the deal with this tank, its huge, transports terminators into CC and has tank killing guns. If you think about it the Godhammer landraider is just confused.
Most terminators that want to be driven into the battle are gonna be assault terminators or they could just deep strike. if I am gonna drive them into my opponents face then I am not going to do it at a lazy pace. Making the guns a bit useless.
Ok I dropped off the payload of BAMF space marines. now I got 2 lascannons. yay how useless for 250 points. All the other versions of land raiders are better.
Yeah I said it.
250 points. one more time, 250 points. I am pretty sure I could total the whole first page of this thread together and it would still be cheaper than 250 points.
What is the deal with this tank, its huge, transports terminators into CC and has tank killing guns. If you think about it the Godhammer landraider is just confused.
Most terminators that want to be driven into the battle are gonna be assault terminators or they could just deep strike. if I am gonna drive them into my opponents face then I am not going to do it at a lazy pace. Making the guns a bit useless.
Ok I dropped off the payload of BAMF space marines. now I got 2 lascannons. yay how useless for 250 points. All the other versions of land raiders are better.
Not to mention it's terrible transport capacity of 10, and no frag launchers.
Except the Reaper loses a foot of range. Sooo...not the same thing. As usual chaos stuff is worse than loyalist. Its wierd because CSM do have
Regular autocannons in their inventory, so why stick the smaller, man-portable gun on the dred, when it can obviously handle the better and longer ranged twin-linked ACs?
Musashi363 wrote: Except the Reaper loses a foot of range. Sooo...not the same thing. As usual chaos stuff is worse than loyalist. Its wierd because CSM do have
Regular autocannons in their inventory, so why stick the smaller, man-portable gun on the dred, when it can obviously handle the better and longer ranged twin-linked ACs?
Because GW. And their weird dislike towards CSM from getting any equalizer with what normal marines have with ATSKNF or Chapter Tactics.
Well... Some people do find uses for them, but why bother when each Chosen model costs 5 pts more than a regular CSM for no benefit whatsoever other than the power to take an extra couple of special weapons that you still have to pay for.
It'd work out cheaper to just go with PM's or extra CSM most of the time.
Creeperman wrote: The Armour Indomitus for Space Marines. Hilariously expensive, and available only to models which already have access to some combination of artificer armour, Terminator armour, built-in invulnerable saves, and/or bikes. One phase of 2++ saves isn't worth the 20+ points' premium you'll be spending over normal wargear.
It's also Relentless and you can sweep and embark in Rhinos.
Not useless at all IMO.
Chapter Champion with a Bolt Pistol, Combat Blade and Power Weapon. For when you don't... want to use your power weapon? (I GUESS MAYBE you'd do this so that you can be full init against things with bad saves.)
Tactical Marines Not being able to take either two Special weapons or 2 heavy weapons (the latter would defeat the purpose of devastator squads to some extent, I guess.)
Deathwind Missile Launchers. 15 points for a 12" S5 Large Blast? No, no thankyou. Especially on an immbile vehicle.
Skyhammer Missiles on the Storm Talon. Because 3 S7AP4 shots is useful against AV12 flyers... when?
Musashi363 wrote: Except the Reaper loses a foot of range. Sooo...not the same thing. As usual chaos stuff is worse than loyalist. Its wierd because CSM do have
Regular autocannons in their inventory, so why stick the smaller, man-portable gun on the dred, when it can obviously handle the better and longer ranged twin-linked ACs?
Because GW. And their weird dislike towards CSM from getting any equalizer with what normal marines have with ATSKNF or Chapter Tactics.
If only they'd think that maybe all this old stuff could be 'different'.
Yeah I said it.
250 points. one more time, 250 points. I am pretty sure I could total the whole first page of this thread together and it would still be cheaper than 250 points.
What is the deal with this tank, its huge, transports terminators into CC and has tank killing guns. If you think about it the Godhammer landraider is just confused.
Most terminators that want to be driven into the battle are gonna be assault terminators or they could just deep strike. if I am gonna drive them into my opponents face then I am not going to do it at a lazy pace. Making the guns a bit useless.
Ok I dropped off the payload of BAMF space marines. now I got 2 lascannons. yay how useless for 250 points. All the other versions of land raiders are better.
You say "confused", I say "tactically flexible, multi-role vehicle" Granted, you do pay a lot of points for stuff you might not be fully utilizing. But you have the option for when you need it.
On the topic of war gear, if we include stock options, it's shotguns on scout bikers. They come with them, and there is no time you would ever fire them, unless you are intentionally sandbagging your damage. The TL bolters on the relentless bike are hands down better. Even if you upgrade to the GL, rapid firing krack grenades is still better.
I also agree with plasma pistols being worth nowhere near 15 points. Same with grav pistols (which I think are better)
Did anyone mention Stikkbombs yet? They allow orks who charge through terrain to strike at I 2 instead of I 1. That's useful against other orks and pretty much nobody else.
Big Blind Bill wrote: Would be good if going against Orks, tau, necrons and anything unwieldy. I don't know how useful this is however, as I don't play orks.
Tau and Necrons don't really have the close-combat killing power to make a difference when striking first against a mob of orks. Unwieldy weapons tend to be found on stuff which an ork has little chance of killing without using a power claw.
Grenades for Orks is a good example. It used to be good in 4th Edition when the Ork Codex came out, but it quickly changed in 5th Edition. I started playing 40k at the tail end of 4th, so I really only played two or three games before 5th edition came out.
Someone correct me, but I believe the old rule was that if you were assaulting a unit and you had frag grenades, your opponent struck at Initiative 1? So for Orks, this was extremely beneficial. Then 5th edition changed it so that you struck at your own initiative instead of I1 when charging into cover.
I probably don't have it quite right though.
But the COST is insane. 1pt per Ork. So you have to pay a whopping 30 points to give a full Ork mob grenades. Maybe by the old 4th Edition rule this was worth it.
welshhoppo wrote: The Baleflamer upgrade for the Heldrake is ever so slightly OP.
Its not the weapon that is OP, its the ability of the Drake to Vector strike a transport open, and then use his long neck (360* turret weapon) to scorch the unit that came out of the wrecks.
Like many with who i talked about it, they all agree that the Heldrake shouldn't be a 360* AoF, but rather something like 180*.
If we can have a better codex, you can limit us to a 180* AoF
Isbjornen wrote: The Dimensional Key, Scrolls og Magnus and the Murder Blade in the CSM codex. All are worthless and stupid.
Mark of Tzeentch on anything which doesn't already have an inv save. If it granted a 5++ it would be fine, but at a 6++ no one will ever bother.
Woah, Woah, Woah. The Dimensional Key and Scrolls of Magnus might be an insult to Chaos but the murder sword has it's uses. If your opponent is
fond of a certain special Character that really aggravates you then the Murder sword is essentially a massive enchanted middle finger.
I got really sick of one of my friends bringing Sicarius so I habitually kitted out a lord with the sword. After several games he got fed up with losing to my Lord
and now I don't have to look at Sicarius' ugly face any more.
But as for most useless, skim through the Chaos dex and you'll find plenty.
ALTHOUGH, the Onager gauntlet is pretty awful. I mean it's cheap because Tau get to have all the fun for half the cost, but one attack on a WS2 model? Don't see that going well ever.
Hexwolf wrote: ALTHOUGH, the Onager gauntlet is pretty awful. I mean it's cheap because Tau get to have all the fun for half the cost, but one attack on a WS2 model? Don't see that going well ever.
KommissarKiln wrote:Commissars in a CCS for IG. Honestly, paying 35 points, I believe, on another squishy model that can give your opponent Slay the Warlord if you fail a morale check unless you have some other Ld 10 HQ.
Commissar: *BLAM* "COWARDICE REQUIRES SUMMARY EXECUTION!"
Guardsman in squad: "Commissar... That was Creed! THAT WAS CREEEEEEEEED!"
(Gunfire ensues, transmission cut off)
You cannot get commissars in CCSs; you can attach a Lord commissar but that is your own tactical mistake
Likan Wolfsheim wrote:Taking hellfury missiles on a Vendetta always struck me as really, really silly. Especially since a Valkyrie with rocket pods costs about the same and can keep firing the pods. They aren't quite as good as the hellfury missiles, but they're not one-shot (then again, taking a Valkyrie over a Vendetta is also silly from a competitive standpoint).
Hellfury and Hellfire missiles are both bad, they confuse the roles of the fliers. Basically Valks and Vends are both 130 points, and have different jobs. I do play with my Valkyrie about as often as with my Vendetta depending on whether I have a quadgun(and with Stronghold assault I am likely to have several).
I would otherwise parrot many of the responses already posted, biggest offender is Digi Weapons on the brotherhood champ, completely and utterly redundant.
My mistake. It is possible with PCS, which is still a bad idea, risking removing the one giving the orders to save maybe 2 remaining models. However, I f a Lord Commissar and Ld 10 Warlord are in the same squad... Let the hilarity and *BLAM* ensue!
I think I'd also have to offer the option for a Destroyer Lord to take a Voidblade. For 5 points you can swap your S7 Ap1 Armourbane attacks for S5 Ap- ones which have Rending and Entropic Strike. Your Warscythe doesn't give a rat's arse about anything that isn't T10, and yet they want you to pay to make it worse!
Valkyrie wrote: I think I'd also have to offer the option for a Destroyer Lord to take a Voidblade. For 5 points you can swap your S7 Ap1 Armourbane attacks for S5 Ap- ones which have Rending and Entropic Strike. Your Warscythe doesn't give a rat's arse about anything that isn't T10, and yet they want you to pay to make it worse!
Ah, the "pay to make it worse" reminds me of the option to give sternguard stormbolters. For the low, low cost of 5ppm you can remove their special ammo. Sure, you get one more shot in the 12-24" range bracket, and the option to assault after firing. That's totally worth the loss of the special ammo. Not to mention the opportunity cost of not taking a combi weapon.
Not many trap choices in C:SM, this is one of them.
Well... Some people do find uses for them, but why bother when each Chosen model costs 5 pts more than a regular CSM for no benefit whatsoever other than the power to take an extra couple of special weapons that you still have to pay for.
I agree they aren't a fairly priced unit but they have an additional attack and leadership over a standard CSM, so that 5pts isn't completely wasted.
My mistake. It is possible with PCS, which is still a bad idea, risking removing the one giving the orders to save maybe 2 remaining models. However, I f a Lord Commissar and Ld 10 Warlord are in the same squad... Let the hilarity and *BLAM* ensue!
Actually, if that happens, I think the Commissar gets the officer rule as he replaces him...IIRC, it's in the errata.
Melee weapons on sergeants, you're spending up to 30pts on a weapon that clashes with the rest of the squads function, and challenge can take out the sergeant.
Shotguns on IG vets are kind of useless. You exchange your 24 range for ability to charge after shooting. Wouldn't be bad on powerblobs, but on your vets? Just bad. The only use I can thing of is swapping sergeant's pistol for a shotgun to get an extra shot at 12"
Wraithswords for Wraithknights (wait, pay more and lose my D cannons for a reroll on my first melee attack?)
Power weapons for Eldar Guardian Assault squads
Avatrass wrote: Shotguns on IG vets are kind of useless. You exchange your 24 range for ability to charge after shooting. Wouldn't be bad on powerblobs, but on your vets? Just bad. The only use I can thing of is swapping sergeant's pistol for a shotgun to get an extra shot at 12"
Situationally useful with Harker-led outflanking Vets. I've done it before with a Vet unit w/3xGL's (I was experimenting a little bit), the Unit wrecked shop against all of the Infantry they ran into to. Yes, they're shorter ranged, but they're dumping tons of shots. They mesh well with Demolitions too, but Shotguns made more sense in 5th than now in 6th.
Another quirky combo is to run Demolitions, shotguns, 1 heavy flamer and 2 meltas led by Harker. They are nasty off of the board edge against tanks or infantry. These types of units mesh well in IG armies with lots of outflanking or Infiltrating units. Those types of IG armies aren't all that common, but they're a hell of a lot of fun to run.
My nomination for pointless/worthless wargear or units: Eldar Banshees, they're gawd awful. Their masks used to good, now they're even worse.
Avatrass wrote: Shotguns on IG vets are kind of useless. You exchange your 24 range for ability to charge after shooting. Wouldn't be bad on powerblobs, but on your vets? Just bad. The only use I can thing of is swapping sergeant's pistol for a shotgun to get an extra shot at 12"
I combine shotguns usually with meltas, flamers would also be nice, to do some decent damage to a nearby enemy squad and then just charge in and finish or cripple what is generally much more than 70-100 points. Works best with chimera.
Fusion pistols - 6" range? Just charge, dark lances in raider squads, dark lances and heat lances in scourge squads, agonisers on sybarites, even though i use them in under 2000points there a points sink
Creeperman wrote: The Armour Indomitus for Space Marines. Hilariously expensive, and available only to models which already have access to some combination of artificer armour, Terminator armour, built-in invulnerable saves, and/or bikes. One phase of 2++ saves isn't worth the 20+ points' premium you'll be spending over normal wargear.
It's also Relentless and you can sweep and embark in Rhinos.
Not useless at all IMO.
Yeah, but none of them have worthwhile guns that benefit from Relentless except the Master of the Forge with a Conversion Beamer, and he already has artificer armour for free. Putting him on a bike costs a third as much and gives him a better save against most AP2 or better ranged weapons. As for Rhinos, I have yet to see any of the beatstick HQs ever get near the things in 6th edition and the new rules for (not) assaulting out of a transport.
Blackskull wrote: when a champion ascends the prince has power armour on, its in the rules.
however he may take it of later
Guess I must've missed that part.
Though I have no idea why he'd remove it.
Though, I suppose, not all DP were CSM's.
That's the thing indeed, there are plenty of DP who weren't CSM who ascended, like Nobles, cult leaders, and those who just were truly worthy of becoming a glorious being.
Creeperman wrote: The Armour Indomitus for Space Marines. Hilariously expensive, and available only to models which already have access to some combination of artificer armour, Terminator armour, built-in invulnerable saves, and/or bikes. One phase of 2++ saves isn't worth the 20+ points' premium you'll be spending over normal wargear.
It's also Relentless and you can sweep and embark in Rhinos.
Not useless at all IMO.
Yeah, but none of them have worthwhile guns that benefit from Relentless except the Master of the Forge with a Conversion Beamer, and he already has artificer armour for free. Putting him on a bike costs a third as much and gives him a better save against most AP2 or better ranged weapons. As for Rhinos, I have yet to see any of the beatstick HQs ever get near the things in 6th edition and the new rules for (not) assaulting out of a transport.
Orbital Bombardment benefits from Relentless. That's not worthwhile? And sweeping advance is pretty useful.
Yeah, but none of them have worthwhile guns that benefit from Relentless except the Master of the Forge with a Conversion Beamer, and he already has artificer armour for free. Putting him on a bike costs a third as much and gives him a better save against most AP2 or better ranged weapons. As for Rhinos, I have yet to see any of the beatstick HQs ever get near the things in 6th edition and the new rules for (not) assaulting out of a transport.
Orbital Bombardment benefits from Relentless. That's not worthwhile? And sweeping advance is pretty useful.
Not 60 points' worth of useful, it isn't. Orbital Bombardment generally gets used early anyway, to smash parking lots or deathstars before they do too much damage, and also to protect against losing the CM before he can fire it. Losing 6" of movement in turn 1 or 2 usually isn't a crippling sacrifice. Also what's wrong with a bike? It gives you Relentless, +1 toughness, a TL boltgun, more mobility, can potentially give you a 2+ cover save, still lets you sweep, and costs much less. Granted you can't ride in a transport, but with a 12" move (and turbo-boost) you don't even need one.
Selym wrote: Power Armour on a DP upgrade is ridiculous.
So, Phil, you're telling me that when a CSM wearing PA grows up to be a DP, he is suddenly stripped naked? Okay.
Slaaneshi worship! *BLAM*
Are thinking CSM power armour is going to fit on a DP? [who is 5x the size of a SM]
Now I kind of want to build a prince wearing a suit made of old SM armor pieces they just sort of slung together. Could work really well for a Slaaneshi bikini.
Selym wrote: Power Armour on a DP upgrade is ridiculous.
So, Phil, you're telling me that when a CSM wearing PA grows up to be a DP, he is suddenly stripped naked? Okay.
Slaaneshi worship! *BLAM*
Are thinking CSM power armour is going to fit on a DP? [who is 5x the size of a SM]
It worked for this guy:
Spoiler:
Yeah and before he got transformed he was in termi armour.
Just saying that a Terminator model can't keep his armor While Mutating to become a DPrince is absurde, the freakin armour warps and mutated along wiht it...
