Just how badly have the new Tyranids been "nerfed"? The consensus so far on the Internet between experienced Tyranid players as well as many veteran players alike is that the new codex is worse than the previous one. Some have even gone so far as to proclaim Tyranids as being the worst army in the game currently! Well, I must have tunnel vision, because I can only see how good the codex can potentially be. Yes, I know we have lost a lot since our previous dex, but I am not one to dwell on the past. I am also not one to give up so easily on my beloved Tyranids. Instead, I look towards the future. And the future is this. We've been given a book that is somewhat limited in terms of the "tools" that it has. However, its strength is that most of those "tools" have gone down in price. So while you may not have a tool for all occasions, you do have lots of the same tools in case 1 wears down. For this game, I am going to take full advantage of that.

Now for my first report, I was kind of conflicted in what I should run. There are many interesting and potentially good units in the book. My first tendency was to give each unit a try. However, I decided against that. Instead of building an army that showcases a variety of units, I opted to go with a highly optimized and what I feel is a very competitive Tyranid army. No, this list isn't trying to be nice. This list isn't trying to test out a variety of tyranid units. This list is just one lean, mean devouring machine. Instead I chose to test out what I feel can be a very competitive Tyranid build - Maximum Threat Overload (MTO) Tyranids. And I'm going to have to bring my best, because I will be going up against one of the best armies in the game today....Taudar! What better way to show the competitive level of tyranids than by challenging one of the strongest armies.

My opponent, Spam Adam, is a very experienced Tau player and his list is really mean. Of all the armies that my tournament necrons have beaten, Tau is the one army that has consistently given them the most trouble. Now my tyranids will be facing that same army - Adam's Triptide Tau! So if you want to check out what the various Tyranid units can do, I'm sorry, but you're going to have to wait for one of my future battle reports. However, if you want to see what bad-a$$es tyranids can be....if you want to see my Hive Fleet Pandora kick a$$ and take names....then you've come to the right place.

Ladies and gents, prepare for war!


-------------------------------------------------------------------


2K NEW Tyranids! Maximum Threat Overlord Hive Fleet Pandora vs Triptide Tau


2000 Tyranids - Double-FOC's



Flyrant - Wings, 2xTL-Brainleech Devourers
Flyrant - Wings, 2xTL-Brainleech Devourers
Flyrant - Wings, 2xTL-Brainleech Devourers
Flyrant - Wings, 2xTL-Brainleech Devourers

1x Venomthrope
1x Zoanthrope
1x Zoanthrope

Tervigon
30x Termagants
10x Termagants
10x Termagants

17x Gargoyles
5x Raveners - Rending Claws
5x Raveners - Rending Claws

Bastion



2000 Tau + Eldar



This is an approximation of his list:

Primary:

Tau Commander - Plasma Rifle, Iridium Armour, Command & Control Node, Multi-Spectrum Suite, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Vectored Retro-thrusters

Riptide - Heavy Burst Cannon, TL-SMS, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker
Riptide - Heavy Burst Cannon, TL-SMS, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker
Riptide - Heavy Burst Cannon, TL-SMS, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker

6x Fire Warriors - Devilfish w/TL-SMS + Disruption Pods
6x Fire Warriors - Devilfish w/TL-SMS + Disruption Pods
13x Kroots

7x Pathfinders
7x Pathfinders
7x Pathfinders

2x Broadsides - Early Warning Override, TL-SMS, TL-HYMP
2x Broadsides - Early Warning Override, TL-SMS, TL-HYMP
2x Broadsides - Early Warning Override, TL-SMS, TL-HYMP

Allied Detachment:

Farseer - Jetbike

3x Windrider Jetbikes


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Bay Area Open

Primary: The Scouring - 4-pts

Secondary: Purge the Alien - 3-pts

Bonus: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord - 1-pt each


Deployment: Hammer & Anvil


Initiative: Tyranids


-------------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME THOUGHTS:

Really wasn't expecting to see Ravenors in there. I hope you gave it your best in this one as for a lot of people, this will be 'it' for making up there mine on new Nids.

As always I have the up most faith in you and Pandora.

I'm guessing the Raveners are for backfield disruption.

I don't quite understand why you wouldn't take two Mawlocs instead. They are even better and suit the theme much more appropriately.

Harpies would also have suited nicely. 6 FMC FTW!

Lots of LoS terain on that board that should certainly help the nids close in.

Still all that str 8 will slaughter the medium size nids.

Should be in interesting match.

would be much more valid if you didnt have to rely on double FOC to spam the most decent thing we have

TBH JY2, you are not playing competitve Nids now, you are playing Codex Hive tyrant.

If we want a conclusive test it should be 1850 with normal force org. Quite Curious to see your list for that point lvl.

but anyhow I want to see the Nids getting their ass kicked,

Although I'm still very interested in the outcome of this game, it'll have a lot taken away from it by the fact that you're relying on 4 Flyrants via double FoC. I look forward to seeing what your competitive Nid lists do at 1850 or single FoC when you can't just double up on the best units we have.

Tau will romp this. I've seen several betreps already with Nids taking on Tau using the new codex and Riptides have taken them apart every time. The games could've been won by 2 Riptides and little else.

I think Stealers with a Broodlord using The Horror and forcing Pinning tests on Riptides are the key to beating Tau armies. I'll be trying it soon against my brother and will let you know the outcome!

I have to agree with everyone that the double force org helps you a lot.

Since he took all of the toys and skimped on the troops the only question I have is can you kill his scoring units before he kills your hive tyrants?

Interesting aggressive approach, do you utilize the Hive commander outflank option of the Hive tyrants? I'm curious to see if there are enough Gargoyles in this list for screening purposes.

Relying on double FOC just seems like a crutch. I'd rather see an 1850 point list TBH.

Even with double FOC, this is definitely not the list I'd take for this situation.

For learning purposes, its just the same old Flyrant only with a better BS and different psychic powers, theres not too much to garner.

Interesting about the raveners! Bummer about double FOC as it limits how much I can apply from this, but still looking forward to reading it

Everyone saying JY2 is playing codex fly rants is a bit off in my mind. After all, Tau is codex Riptides then. Why not take multiples of the best unit? But, I still have to favor Tau here. That's a pure Dakka army. He won't dent the Bastion but otherwise he basically ignores Venom fire by allowing you your armor save. Terrain can keep the Ravs alive but I don't see it ending well.

PS, this is the fame the Tyrrannofex was born for!

I actually managed to win two battles against my friend who plays Tau with the new nids. My list was dual flyrants, dual zoeys, one venomthrope, 2 mawlocs, 3 dakkafexes and four MSU termagants. The key to victory against the Tau waaaaas either Horror or Paroxysm powers and taking out their markers in the first turn. If the Tau cannot shoot straight or boost their BS with markerlights, they aren't really that dangerous. The list my friend played wasn't a pure competitive list though, he had a Cadre Fireblade, 3x12 FWs, a riptide, a hammerhead, a skyray, some crisis suits with plas and melta and 3 broadsides.

TL;DR - good strategies on Tau (If you've got Horror or Paroxysm powers)
- first turn concentrate on finishing off the markerlights
- Horroring up the problem units (such as Broadsides) and then forcing a ld check will get them outta your hair quick.
- if you manage to roll Paroxysm several times - that is a really good thing. It almost shuts down any Tau unit bar vehicles.

Oh, and a Mawloc with its dual pieplate can royally screw over broadsides / crisis / FW castles. Pure fun.

I actually agree with several other posts here. While I eagerly anticipate this battle report, I would really like to see a single org force chart game against the Tau player.

After all, even though it is 2000 pts, the tau player is only using 1 FOC's worth of slots. I'm curious as to what kind of list you could manage to challenge the Tau player with below 2000 pts, Jy2!

I know I'm echoing what everybody else is saying here, but using double FOC seems a little bit of a stretch to call this competitive Tyranids. Some tournaments don't even allow double FOC even when they are at that point level, and most are less to begin with.

I'm also confused at the raveners?

What's your reasoning for picking Raveners over Shrikes? You prefer the extra point of Initiative and beast movement over jump infantry movement and extra ld10/Synapse?

 jifel wrote:
Everyone saying JY2 is playing codex fly rants is a bit off in my mind. After all, Tau is codex Riptides then. Why not take multiples of the best unit? But, I still have to favor Tau here. That's a pure Dakka army. He won't dent the Bastion but otherwise he basically ignores Venom fire by allowing you your armor save. Terrain can keep the Ravs alive but I don't see it ending well.

PS, this is the fame the Tyrrannofex was born for!

Probably because the tau list took what was legal for standard FOC. It doesn't look good when only one player is using double FOC to make his entire list work.

PS funny that you label Tau as codex riptides when they have money auto take units in every slot


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Redemption wrote:
What's your reasoning for picking Raveners over Shrikes? You prefer the extra point of Initiative and beast movement over jump infantry movement and extra ld10/Synapse?

He may be restricted to what he owns for models and didn't want to proxy for this one.

Heck, I have yet to see an actual shrike in person

I am conflicted about this bat rep.

While I agree with the concensus: The game should have been played under 2k points to avoid the double force org.

I, however, think that we are going to see Jy2 display a tactic that will become the new "monobuild" for "competitive" Tyranid lists: Bastion with Venomthrope embarked + Zoanthrope hiding out of LOS behind it.

Any person who can read, has already been able to tell that Flyrants will STILL be a crutch for Tyranid players.

Finally, while I think the Nids will be able to give Tau a run for the money based on 1 thing alone....which is the Flyrant's mobility.

 Fxeni wrote:
I actually agree with several other posts here. While I eagerly anticipate this battle report, I would really like to see a single org force chart game against the Tau player.

After all, even though it is 2000 pts, the tau player is only using 1 FOC's worth of slots. I'm curious as to what kind of list you could manage to challenge the Tau player with below 2000 pts, Jy2!

Yes, it very much seems like your trying to exploit the key strong Nid unit with 4x FHT. Still curious to see how they do, even against a single FOC Tau.

Fragile wrote:

 Fxeni wrote:
I actually agree with several other posts here. While I eagerly anticipate this battle report, I would really like to see a single org force chart game against the Tau player.

After all, even though it is 2000 pts, the tau player is only using 1 FOC's worth of slots. I'm curious as to what kind of list you could manage to challenge the Tau player with below 2000 pts, Jy2!

Yes, it very much seems like your trying to exploit the key strong Nid unit with 4x FHT. Still curious to see how they do, even against a single FOC Tau.

And the guy using the 3 Riptides, and his allied slot just to get a Jetstar isn't trying to exploit the key strong unit in his codex, no?

I agree vs Tau that Mawlocs are probably better suited than Raveners, but you have to consider that one is a heavy support while the other is fast attack. Raveners vs Shrikes - Shrikes actually make more sense in a lot of cases, and now that you can mix/match wargear I might just be converting some of my 30+ warriors so i can have a unit of 3-6 escorting my raveners up the table. If only they could take bio-cannons....

Edit - holy crap they can now. Venom Cannon Shrike, you will be soon a model i own! Now to get some gargoyle wings....

So here we basically have a Nid army that uses double FOC and a Tau army that uses a single FOC. Is that the handicap that Tyranids need in order to get a competitive force going?

I think this is an extremely bad approach to take on a battle where the premise according to your own words is finding out how badly the Tyranids have been nerfed. You won't have 4 Flyrants in 1.85K pts, but the Tau will still have 3 Riptides or more.

At 2K pts I'd just rather field Tau with Tau allies with 4 Riptides and 4 Skyrays. Personally I think the Tau list is really bad (2x Devilfish when you got double FOC slots still available, and that many Broadsides in general), other than being seemingly pre-tooled against FMCs, considering barely anyone buys velocity trackers for 3 Riptides normally.

This will be interesting. At least the table doesn't overly favor the Tau.

If those flyrants get into assault, it will be uuugly however

Look forward to seeing what happens, I agree with you (in premise) that the Tyranids book is actually quite good if you use it correctly, sadly I don't think a game where you use double FOC is going to illustrate this very well, would have rather seen a single FOC build instead, since that is what most people are using to measure viability.

Double FOC is a huge boon for the Tyranids. Really not a realistic way to test the new codex.

On top of that, and much more important, you are playing on a table with 18 LOS blocking structures. That is ridiculous. to balance it out you should play another game with no terrain at all.

18 LOS blocking pieces of terrain really break the game as much as playing on the plains of Nebraska does.

Here is the prediction.

Tau will spend the game trying to kill the 4 Flyrants, Gargoyles and raveners who make it into the Tau lines bacuse of all that LOS blocking terrain. The 3 little Tau troop units get killed along with all the Bug attackers, but the Bugs still win because small squads of bug scoring units will remain alive in the backfield behind LOS blocking terrain.

The most powerful unit nids could field against that tau list is deathleaper.

We should all be happy that JY2 puts in the time and energy he does, that being said I am on board with the folks who are saying that this is a bad representation of Nids. Most folks don't play double FOC and 1850 has become the standard. I'd much rather see a Nid list using a single FOC. Double FOC is definitely the key to getting better Nid builds which is why I am biding my time for the inevitable supplement that allows Nids to ally with themselves.

Eldercaveman wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 Fxeni wrote:
I actually agree with several other posts here. While I eagerly anticipate this battle report, I would really like to see a single org force chart game against the Tau player.

After all, even though it is 2000 pts, the tau player is only using 1 FOC's worth of slots. I'm curious as to what kind of list you could manage to challenge the Tau player with below 2000 pts, Jy2!

Yes, it very much seems like your trying to exploit the key strong Nid unit with 4x FHT. Still curious to see how they do, even against a single FOC Tau.

And the guy using the 3 Riptides, and his allied slot just to get a Jetstar isn't trying to exploit the key strong unit in his codex, no?

No. 3 Riptides is perfectly legit in single FOC, although somewhat uncommon here, 4 HQs on the other hand is not. Without being disrespectful to JY2, "Well, I must have tunnel vision, because I can only see how good the codex can potentially be" is not being represented in this list. There is no doubt HTs are very strong, last codex to this one. But this list is doubling the FOC to get access to more Tyrant power. Why when the rest of your list is single FOC. Id rather see 3x Exocrines there.

It's been said about a hundred times now, but I throw my hat in at the double force org concerns as well.

No worries guys. I was debating over taking single-FOC and a wide variety of guys, but I settled on taking a playstyle that I wanted to try out. Yeah, this battle won't be indicative of a normal Tyranid army, but that was not my plan with this battle.

My next game with bugs will be with a much more "normal" list and it will be against a competitive White Scars army.

 jy2 wrote:
No worries guys. I was debating over taking single-FOC and a wide variety of guys, but I settled on taking a playstyle that I wanted to try out. Yeah, this battle won't be indicative of a normal Tyranid army, but that was not my plan with this battle.

My next game with bugs will be with a much more "normal" list and it will be against a competitive White Scars army.

And to me this is more in line with the spirit of the dex. Too many people are out for taudar blood when the new nid book is actually terrifying to marine players (a much more balanced book as well). I wouldn't have garnered much usable data from the new nids verse taudar in any format since the disparity between books is just silly, I think people should stop expecting newer armies to be on par or surpass the obviously broken armies and just enjoy the armies that are balanced.

Though I must say one of my favorite fights in 40K has always been demons verse nids. MC's fighting all around makes me happy.

Thanks for the Batrep btw. Whether informative or not they are appreciated for their entertainment alone

What concerns me is the amout of Anti-Air the Tau are bringing.

 Anpu42 wrote:
What concerns me is the amout of Anti-Air the Tau are bringing.

Its nothing fishy, that's pretty much the guys standard Taudar army scaled up 150 points which is why its only single FOC.

Not suggesting you implied anything btw.

 warpspider89 wrote:
I'm guessing the Raveners are for backfield disruption.

I don't quite understand why you wouldn't take two Mawlocs instead. They are even better and suit the theme much more appropriately.

Harpies would also have suited nicely. 6 FMC FTW!

Mawlocs will come in future armies.

 Blackmoor wrote:
I have to agree with everyone that the double force org helps you a lot.

Since he took all of the toys and skimped on the troops the only question I have is can you kill his scoring units before he kills your hive tyrants?

Not going to be easy with 3 riptides and 6 broadsides shooting at my units every turn.

 Antario wrote:
Interesting aggressive approach, do you utilize the Hive commander outflank option of the Hive tyrants? I'm curious to see if there are enough Gargoyles in this list for screening purposes.

No, no Hive Commander this game.

herpguy wrote:
I know I'm echoing what everybody else is saying here, but using double FOC seems a little bit of a stretch to call this competitive Tyranids. Some tournaments don't even allow double FOC even when they are at that point level, and most are less to begin with.

I'm also confused at the raveners?

Raveners haven't really changed much from last edition, meaning that they are still good. In a way, they've become better in this edition. Why? Because the current meta is on S6/S7 shooting rather than S8. So in a sense, they are more survivable now than they used to be because of the de-emphasis on insta-killing weaponry against them.

 Redemption wrote:
What's your reasoning for picking Raveners over Shrikes? You prefer the extra point of Initiative and beast movement over jump infantry movement and extra ld10/Synapse?

Having the models.

But also, I like how raveners are beasts and thus ignore all terrain.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I agree vs Tau that Mawlocs are probably better suited than Raveners, but you have to consider that one is a heavy support while the other is fast attack. Raveners vs Shrikes - Shrikes actually make more sense in a lot of cases, and now that you can mix/match wargear I might just be converting some of my 30+ warriors so i can have a unit of 3-6 escorting my raveners up the table. If only they could take bio-cannons....

Edit - holy crap they can now. Venom Cannon Shrike, you will be soon a model i own! Now to get some gargoyle wings....

One thing to note is that with 4 flyrants, forward synapse is not an issue. Thus, I can afford to take beasts, which are actually better assault units with their ability to ignore terrain and fleet.

tag8833 wrote:
The most powerful unit nids could field against that tau list is deathleaper.

Hmmm....gotta try that in the future, though it's hard to give up a flyrant for him. Maybe at double-FOC's....

 Anpu42 wrote:
What concerns me is the amout of Anti-Air the Tau are bringing.

That's his normal list.

Apparently, our meta is more filled with flyers (me) than it is with 2+ terminators. In any case, he relies on VoF to take out 2+ units.

Instantly disappointed to see a 2xFOC list at 2000 instead a typical tournament amount of points. Oh well, we shall see what happens.

Did you decide to do the list this way because you didn't think you could win against triptide without it? Playing a "normal" list against wscars is one thing, but you got us all excited to see you beat down triptide tau.....we were ALL assuming you were talkin, like 1850, or at least single FOC.

So you're janking your opponent with double force org as evidence that nid dex is good?

Next.

Perhaps people aren't ready for this report.

Perhaps I shall start off my Tyranid battle with another report.

 jy2 wrote:
Perhaps people aren't ready for this report.

Perhaps I shall start off my Tyranid battle with another report.

I'm ready....

I think the setup is good. Against such an anti-air screen, those two extra Flyrants are pretty much throwaway points. The terrain is also okay because those long, open lanes will hurt the Tyranids just as much as those buildings will hurt the Tau.

My prognosis is that the fast moving Tyranid units will die a horrible death without doing anything meaningful and the forward deployed scoring units will die too because the SMS doesn't care about LoS. The battle will be a draw or a Tyranid victory though because the Tervigon will spawn enough extra scoring units to pull it out with objectives.

I don't understand the comments about "normal" games, at 2000pts. you can take 2 FOC charts which IS NORMAL, wether you personally like it or not. I say lets see it, it shows Tyranids in a new light with double FOC which clearly as the majority of people posting on here have not seen before, but also it shows a similar list I am trying to help my twin brother put together by using a heavy flyer approach. I say post it and ignore the nay sayers, they will get another "normal" report in the near future it sounds like.

jy2 im rooting for you on this one! I feel an optimized nids list will pull the W on this one, and that the nids are not as bad as first thought (although you should have some biovores just cause I feel they got a huge boost and are well worth their points now)

A single FOC would be a little more relevant but im happy to see a double FOC just cause you dont see many these days.

As for the LOS blocking terrain, good, im all for it, its in the game for a reason and if the high and mighty taudar cant win with it well boo hoo, welcome to every other armies life when they have to play Taudar on an open field.

For the double FOC nay sayers, go look up the other thousand battle reports that are out there since the new nids release and stop whinning that this one is Double FOC

 jy2 wrote:
Perhaps people aren't ready for this report.

Perhaps I shall start off my Tyranid battle with another report.

View this thread as the new Tyranid release perhaps. They will complain no matter what if it isn't what they want to the letter!

But, suffice to say that an enlightened few are still looking forward to it.
I like the base of your list a lot, primarily the Venomthrope+Bastion+Zoanthrope. I've already included that combo in my lists, which I'll be testing Friday. Good luck!

Besides, in a world with Allied slots, inquisition slots, dataslate slots and self-allying slots, I think we can take it easy on Nids for using a Double Force Org at the appropriate amount of points...

DarthDiggler wrote:
Double FOC is a huge boon for the Tyranids. Really not a realistic way to test the new codex.

On top of that, and much more important, you are playing on a table with 18 LOS blocking structures. That is ridiculous. to balance it out you should play another game with no terrain at all.

18 LOS blocking pieces of terrain really break the game as much as playing on the plains of Nebraska does.

Here is the prediction.

Tau will spend the game trying to kill the 4 Flyrants, Gargoyles and raveners who make it into the Tau lines bacuse of all that LOS blocking terrain. The 3 little Tau troop units get killed along with all the Bug attackers, but the Bugs still win because small squads of bug scoring units will remain alive in the backfield behind LOS blocking terrain.

^^ This!

The batrep does not prove anything because not every game is 2000+ points and allowing double FOC. It is a crutch list. jy2 I would like to see you really show how good is the new codex... don't listen to the fanbois...

 jy2 wrote:
Perhaps people aren't ready for this report.

Perhaps I shall start off my Tyranid battle with another report.

There is often a disconnect between the first impression of a codex, and the combinations and possibilities of what it really can do. There are a lot of naysayers right now about the Tyranid codex, and it is not getting any love so this report was a chance to see if the codex can really compete in the hands of a skilled player.

So we were all looking forward to a 1500-1750-1850 point game to see if they can do alright in a normal game of 40k.

You and Jathkin are some of the main Tyranid players through 6th edition and we wanted to see what you can do with this codex. This battle report means they we do not get to see how the codex operates in the hands of a skilled general under normal circumstances.

So your report came as a bit of a disappointment to see that you took a double force org army (that 99% of the people don’t play) and spammed a unit that is very good. The problem is also compounded by the fact that your opponent took a single force org army, and there is a ton of LOS blocking terrain.

Because of these factors there is little to be learned by your game.

 jy2 wrote:
Perhaps people aren't ready for this report.

Perhaps I shall start off my Tyranid battle with another report.

Nah, it may not be "enlightening" to those of us who hate double FOC, but I'm sure it'll still be an interesting read!

Also, there are two large tournaments in the Bay Area this year (BAO and Golden Throne), one of which is 2000 points/double FOC. So, while this may not be an applicable list for many tournaments, it's not garbage, either. Jy2 could pretty much post any battle report and I'd be happy. I'm really excited to see how he tackles the new nids at any point level.

Can people please lay off the FOC and terrain?

1. Im pretty sure this wont be the first and last report with the nids
2. If you don't want to watch this one then wait until the next!!

Eagerly awaiting this jy2! I hope that you can garner some competitiveness out of the dex. I for one understand that with the percieved "bonuses" of the double FOC and LOS blocking terrain (helps jumping Tau as well) there will be a TON of things to learn from this!

bodazoka wrote:
Can people please lay off the FOC and terrain?

1. Im pretty sure this wont be the first and last report with the nids
2. If you don't want to watch this one then wait until the next!!

Eagerly awaiting this jy2! I hope that you can garner some competitiveness out of the dex. I for one understand that with the percieved "bonuses" of the double FOC and LOS blocking terrain (helps jumping Tau as well) there will be a TON of things to learn from this!

I totally agree with this sentiment. I'm looking forward to the rep.

I think double FOC like this is an excellent opener! It would be very telling if - given the observations people have made here (2xFOC, terrain, anti-air), and Jy2's playing skill - 'nids still got smashed.

Hey Jy2. Just want to send out a positive note that I, for one, really appreciate all the time and effort you put into your reports. Especially the tactical analysis. I'm very much looking forward to this and future 'Nid bat reps.

How the dex performs with you at the helm will determine whether or not this is the edition that Nids finally make their way into my collection AND I' personally am just as keen to see how they do with 2 Charts as I am to see them with one.

Thanks again.

I'm just looking forward to reading more ofyour reports jy2. Cheers.

Throws a rock at JY2. I wanna see what crones can do.

Alright sir well lets see what the flyrants can do. I already voted and originally said Tau but then noticed the 4 flyrants. I think you got this with 4 of them.

Adepticon, NOVA, WGC and BAO are all 1850 points or lower this year .

Yup, but plenty of other tournaments aren't. We don't all live in the USA you know

 LeadLegion wrote:
Yup, but plenty of other tournaments aren't. We don't all live in the USA you know

Those events pull international players from all over the world your realise right?

Tzeentch FMCs with their 4++/5++/2++ rerolling 1's already have huge problems surviving in the current meta.

I honestly don't see how Tyranid MC/FMC spam with their piddling 3+/4+ saves and no FNP can hope to accomplish anything, especially now that grav weapons are commonplace.

That Tau list is terrible. Not a Skyray in sight; no counter-assault; Buff commander is spending absurd points to buff a single riptide. Over 100 points spent getting skyfire on everything; is every other player in the game store running Flying French bakery? Mono-tau with a farseer is like half the power level of Tau/Tau.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 LeadLegion wrote:
Yup, but plenty of other tournaments aren't. We don't all live in the USA you know

Those events pull international players from all over the world your realise right?

Yeah, I know. I've always wanted to attend at least one of them myself. Just making the point that the US meta isn't the only meta out there and that not everyone on Dakka is able to attend the big cons. I'm making an educated guess that a good portion of Jy2's audience are unable to attend the big American tournaments regularly (if at all). We still read them though, for the simple reason that even if the meta is different, we can still learn a great deal from his experiences.

Edit: Asmodei's comment sums up the meta differences very well. Spam's list obviously does very well over in California, but going by Asmodei's comments, it wouldn't stand up very well in his local meta (unless he's being sarcastic and my sarcasm-dar isn't working properly). You wouldn't see his list in my local area either, but possibly that would have more to do with the general lack of regard for spam lists in my area (combined with a surprisingly low flier turnout).

 Ravenous D wrote:
So you're janking your opponent with double force org as evidence that nid dex is good?

Next.

Try to come across as less of a dick next time. This guy doesn't owe you anything.

Don't like it? Don't watch it. That goes for everybody in this thread.

@HiveFleetCollossus

2 things:

1. Love the profile pic! Best ever!
2. I agree 100%

 HiveFleetCollossus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
So you're janking your opponent with double force org as evidence that nid dex is good?

Next.

Try to come across as less of a dick next time. This guy doesn't owe you anything.

Don't like it? Don't watch it. That goes for everybody in this thread.

OP says that he is awesome and thinks nids aren't bad, perfectly viable and is here to prove it. Apparently that means using non standard points on unfavourable tables. The second force org changes the game completely.

The rest of this message has been edited for rule #1 - MT11

 Ravenous D wrote:

 HiveFleetCollossus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
So you're janking your opponent with double force org as evidence that nid dex is good?

Next.

Try to come across as less of a dick next time. This guy doesn't owe you anything.

Don't like it? Don't watch it. That goes for everybody in this thread.

Or you can lick his ass some more and call it ice cream.

OP says that he is awesome and thinks nids aren't bad, perfectly viable and is here to prove it. Apparently that means using non standard points on unfavourable tables. The second force org changes the game completely. I called that out and you dumb gaks rush to defend it.

I thought canadian's were not suppose to be arse holes?

Wow, so much rage.

Either way I am happy to read the batrep. Thanks for writing it up Jy2. I look forward to your experiments.

The table looks fine to me. The double FOC is fine by me as well. I play games at double FOC, I have read of others who play double FOC games, and there is even a tournament at this pts level. Heck it is not like this will be the only batrep or even Jy2 batrep with nids (hopefully, as Jy2 indicated he planned on doing a number of these in his OP).

Yea I'll admit I was a little let down but I hadn't read the comments section before posting in the other thread or I wouldn't have even bothered expressing concern, so, oops . A bit too much rage going on here lol. It's worth noting that this won't give us much relevant data but its still a welcome escape from daily routine

Thanks again for taking the time to write this one up!

Looking forward to a 1750 one soon as well




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 HiveFleetCollossus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
So you're janking your opponent with double force org as evidence that nid dex is good?

Next.

Try to come across as less of a dick next time. This guy doesn't owe you anything.

Don't like it? Don't watch it. That goes for everybody in this thread.

Or you can lick his ass some more and call it ice cream.[b]

OP says that he is awesome and thinks nids aren't bad, perfectly viable and is here to prove it. Apparently that means using non standard points on unfavourable tables. The second force org changes the game completely. I called that out and you dumb gaks rush to defend it.

Oh internets, never change.

tag8833 wrote:
The most powerful unit nids could field against that tau list is deathleaper.

Seriously? You haven't played against Tau then. SMS at snapshot will still screw DL over, Markerlights can boost BS/Ignore Cover, a pair of Broadside will statistically obliterate DL. For those who would say "Well at least those 2 broadside aren't shooting elsewhere" that may be true, but it's only for a turn, and you traded a Flyrant for something that just got poofed by 2 broadside. Sorry but DL is actually the worst against Tau.

And no disrespect Jy2, but I agree with the others. It seems you have done DFO just to take advantage of the Flyrant, nothing else. If that is the only good thing with the new Nids than they are screwed because 90% of tournaments are 1750-1850, so only 2 of the buggers are allowed. Combined with the inordinate amt of LOS blocking terrain this game doesn't seem to prove that much, but I guess we'll see.

I think this game will be:
Tau pour everything they've got at the flyrants, kill them turn 3, but lose a riptide and some other stuff in the process. They then have 2 or more game turns to kill the rest of the Nids
OR
Tau fail to kill the Flyrants fast enough, and combined with the Ravenors the Flyrants kill all the Riptides and begin to eat away at the Tau backfield, winning with their own troops comfortably out of the fight chillin on some objectives

just my $.02

Ok, people, settle down. It's not the end of the world if I ran double-FOC's and this is just the first of many Tyranid battles that I will be posting.


HOWEVER, due the the expressed negativity/disapproval in this thread, I've decided to put this battle report on hold. I will bring it back at some later date, when I feel the public is more ready for it, but for now, I will give the people what they want to see. I will start off my Tyranid experiences with a more traditional single-FOC army if that is what the public wants to see.

I think the "public" would just like to see a report but if you want to hold off till later it's your call. Can't wait to see your Nids in action, regardless! But I'm hoping they can hang tough with just two flyrants when it comes to it.

Ravenous, that post was really out of line and I imagine a mod will be dealing with it shortly.

 LeadLegion wrote:
Hey Jy2. Just want to send out a positive note that I, for one, really appreciate all the time and effort you put into your reports. Especially the tactical analysis. I'm very much looking forward to this and future 'Nid bat reps.

How the dex performs with you at the helm will determine whether or not this is the edition that Nids finally make their way into my collection AND I' personally am just as keen to see how they do with 2 Charts as I am to see them with one.

Thanks again.

Same, I have a hard enough time mustering up a report myself these days, jy2 puts one out every week it seems. I guess we take you for granted sometimes...

 jy2 wrote:
Ok, people, settle down. It's not the end of the world if I ran double-FOC's and this is just the first of many Tyranid battles that I will be posting.


HOWEVER, due the the expressed negativity/disapproval in this thread, I've decided to put this battle report on hold. I will bring it back at some later date, when I feel the public is more ready for it, but for now, I will give the people what they want to see. I will start off my Tyranid experiences with a more traditional single-FOC army if that is what the public wants to see.

Aww... :( Even if I don't like 2xFOC, I still was curious to see how good Flyrants can be...

JY2 your a class act unlike some.

Sad sad state of affairs.

That is disappointing.

I guess they cut off the nose to spite the face.

The nid codex is so negatively perceived right now, it doesn't matter what the list in the batrep is. People will say "is sucks because of x, y, or z". Jy2 could go on a winning streak a mile long with new nids and people will say "there was too much terrain" or "your opponent was a n00b" or "the game ended 1 turn too early" etc etc. it's unreal.

Jy2 I would like to read your batrep, win or loss, double FOC (which IS the rule at 2000 + points like it or not) or single. I like the format and they're always entertaining.

Don't worry guys. I will be playing against a White Scars army tomorrow with my "normal" bugs so you won't have to wait too long for a Tyranid battle report from me.

Then on Friday, I may just head on up to Frontline to take on Reece's challenge. My bugs against any one of his armies....and I may just play against his Taudar.

Then afterwards, maybe I will go back to this report.

If you take Reece's challenge I hope it's either on camera for Frontline or that you write it up. I wanna see you win that prize!

 tetrisphreak wrote:
The nid codex is so negatively perceived right now, it doesn't matter what the list in the batrep is. People will say "is sucks because of x, y, or z". Jy2 could go on a winning streak a mile long with new nids and people will say "there was too much terrain" or "your opponent was a n00b" or "the game ended 1 turn too early" etc etc. it's unreal.

Jy2 I would like to read your batrep, win or loss, double FOC (which IS the rule at 2000 + points like it or not) or single. I like the format and they're always entertaining.

tetrisphreak has the right of it. People won't stop complaining about the new 'Nid codex until people start winning at tournaments with it. A vocal minority got a first look at the codex, didn't like it, and now a ton of other people are parroting those opinions. It's going to take some time to educate people as to what options there are. Then we'll start seeing a bunch of 'well I knew the codex was good all along!' There IS still a ton of nice stuff in the 'dex, even if a couple things got hit with the nerf bat.

Jy2, your batreps are always excellent and I look forward to your Tyranid reports. Your reps are what got me started thinking tactically all the way from the list building stage with my Necrons a couple years back, and now that I'm starting to consider the bugs I'll have even more batrep goodness to look forward to from you.

 Skerr wrote:
JY2 your a class act unlike some.

Sad sad state of affairs.

Ditto...

jy2... I've always enjoyed your batrep.

jy2 to the internet:





I, for one am sad. I would rather get a good Tyranid battle report from you now, even if it is a double force org game.

Oh well, I guess I have something to look forward to, then!

 jy2 wrote:
Don't worry guys. I will be playing against a White Scars army tomorrow with my "normal" bugs so you won't have to wait too long for a Tyranid battle report from me.

Then on Friday, I may just head on up to Frontline to take on Reece's challenge. My bugs against any one of his armies....and I may just play against his Taudar.

Then afterwards, maybe I will go back to this report.

Wow. I have never seen people bitch so much about someone else spending time to write a report for the benefit of the community. Bet these people would also complain about free ice cream because it wasn't their favorite flavor. I don't think tyranids are all that bad, they just can't be played with the same tactics as they used to. Can't wait for this report and the others. Do the hive mind proud.

@JY2 dont give in just cause some chumps dont like double FOC, the rest of us dont care about it and just want to read another one of your great batreps

this is why we can't have nice things. I wanted to see the quad flyrant results after seeing nids die trying in single FOC in FLG reports

nidsNguard wrote:

Wow. I have never seen people bitch so much about someone else spending time to write a report for the benefit of the community. Bet these people would also complain about free ice cream because it wasn't their favorite flavor. I don't think tyranids are all that bad, they just can't be played with the same tactics as they used to. Can't wait for this report and the others. Do the hive mind proud.

Every single time someone says something like this, I'm reminded of when I played Magic and heard the comment that WotC could put a literal $20 bill in every pack, and people would complain about how it was folded.

Having done a report in your style I am continually amazed how fast you churn these out. I really appreciate reading these.

Its a shame how the reaction to this one played out, but this is probably one of the most volatile reactions to a codex I've ever seen.

 Eldarain wrote:
Having done a report in your style I am continually amazed how fast you churn these out. I really appreciate reading these.

Its a shame how the reaction to this one played out, but this is probably one of the most volatile reactions to a codex I've ever seen.

Agreed! I have played in one game with jy2 where he was taking battle rep pictures and it kind of reminded me of what is said about some of the great film directors: they come to the set with the whole movie already edited 'in their head', so they only need to shoot exactly the shots that are needed (as opposed to most films, where they shoot a scene from almost every angle *just in case* they may want to cut it a different way).

With jy2, when he's playing, you can tell he 'knows' exactly what shots he needs to get in order to make the battle rep work and its 2nd nature at this point...plus he's developed some little tricks, like putting dice next to units to remind himself how many casualties that unit took from shooting that round.

So yeah, he's a machine at making these battle reps, and we're all better off for having them. Video battle reps are cool and have some nice advantages, but they just don't compare to jy2's style of battle reps, IMHO.

Jy2 is the absolute undisputed king of bat reps. I've never before seen a single format of bat reps be utilised be so many people. It's almost worth creating a STC for it, so people can just fill in the details.

Jy2,

Thanks for the effort. I think you made a good decision revising the structure of the match. If you had won, your win would probably have been dismissed by some citing 2 FOC vs. 1.

As a Nid player myself, I'm eager to see the result.

Just got here and boy did that escalate quickly...

I fully appreciate the batreps and all the time and effort out into them. Jy2, thank you and keep doing your thang brotha.

Well, with 2 FOCs (i.e., 4 Flyrants) this match-up is definitely not what I'm looking for. A battle at the 1850 pt level would definitely be more enlightening. Nevertheless, let the good work coming JY2.

 jy2 wrote:
Don't worry guys. I will be playing against a White Scars army tomorrow with my "normal" bugs so you won't have to wait too long for a Tyranid battle report from me.

Then on Friday, I may just head on up to Frontline to take on Reece's challenge. My bugs against any one of his armies....and I may just play against his Taudar.

Then afterwards, maybe I will go back to this report.

This. Soooo this. I can't wait to see a video batrep from Reecius eating humble pie when you beat him with your Nids. Please for the love of God do this!

I've nerver seen a table like that at a tournament, nor do I see that as a particularly optimized Tau list.

nidsNguard wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Don't worry guys. I will be playing against a White Scars army tomorrow with my "normal" bugs so you won't have to wait too long for a Tyranid battle report from me.

Then on Friday, I may just head on up to Frontline to take on Reece's challenge. My bugs against any one of his armies....and I may just play against his Taudar.

Then afterwards, maybe I will go back to this report.

Wow. I have never seen people bitch so much about someone else spending time to write a report for the benefit of the community. Bet these people would also complain about free ice cream because it wasn't their favorite flavor. I don't think tyranids are all that bad, they just can't be played with the same tactics as they used to. Can't wait for this report and the others. Do the hive mind proud.

Thanks for your work jy2. I look forward to this, and your future reports, they're really appreciated.

As for the codex, many of people's complaints were justified, and those who called the complainers whingers were indisputably in the wrong. But as for people complaining about a battle report that someone has taken upon themselves to do, for the benefit of the community, I say: get thee gone, thou skulking whinger!

I really appreciate jy2's hard work. Double force org is in the BRB, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to use it, ESPECIALLY while Nids are still waiting for the fully expected allies, dataslates, etc.

Thing is, it might have been more balanced to allow just one extra unit per force org to the nid player only, given the lack of allies... but that departs even further into the realm of house rules than 'no double force org' does. So I don't really understand the complaints. The thread is heading in the direction of YouTube commenters complaining about someone's free 'How To' video, or something...

Both guys agreed to the point limits, both guys built their army as they saw fit. Both knew they could have both used 2 force org charts. One did, one didn't.

Nothing was set up to favor one side or the other. The game was a result of players having a choice of options, and picking them.

Anyone whining about this needs to grow up and enjoy the time and effort that JY2 puts into writing these things. If you can't do that, then don't bother reading these things and just go away.

 jy2 wrote:
Don't worry guys. I will be playing against a White Scars army tomorrow with my "normal" bugs so you won't have to wait too long for a Tyranid battle report from me.

Then on Friday, I may just head on up to Frontline to take on Reece's challenge. My bugs against any one of his armies....and I may just play against his Taudar.

Man, both of the above sound awesome! Cannot wait

Can't wait to read the next one.
Sorry about all the naysayers.Chin up as they say, and good luck to your bugs!

Don't give up on this one J. People just want to see nids do bad for the internet "told you so"s

Man, I'm stoked about the Reecius vs J Nid report. Think it'll be a classic.

Gutted that the naysayers stole J's mojo for this report mind you, but stoked for the Frontline vid.

This thread... Wow.

For what it's worth, my gut reaction to the double force org was a bit of a let down, but after a second thought I'm actually much more interested in seeing what four Tyrants can do, and to which degree they are carrying the rest of the army (if at all), or if they can do even that.

Anyway, I'm a big fan of your batreps and look forward to more.

Maybe I've been down in the fantasy section too long but, isn't double FOC opened up by reaching a 2000 point game? If so it becomes fair game and both players are allowed to use it, I mean grand armies in fantasy function roughly the same but I've never seen anyone complain about a player taking advantage of it. In short complaints about 2000 points being irregular are valid, if most tournaments aren't at 2000 points and you wanted to see a "tournament" army more fitting of your meta and common point values I get that. However, once you hit that magic number, the genie is out of the bottle, it's just list building. I mean we don't complain about that Tau list having allies which unlike double FOC, Tyranids can't use.

I know this has gotten very ranty and I apologize but I think this thread was perceived as Tyranid's golden brick road to success town. The idea that somehow JY2 would reveal such a deft and amazing combination of units that the entire internet would sigh with a collective; "Now I get it.... That's how Nids are good!" Sadly this isn't a fantasy world, Tyranid's can be good and by god I'm returning to 40k to try and MAKE them good. We just have to know that Nids aren't top tier all of a sudden, but we are still competitive, Tau and Eldar were the flukes to game balance, not Tyranids. To conclude, when a player offers a hard list, and provides a very hard 100% legal list, people seem to have just unleashed their combined dissapointments into this thread. Dissapointments about an army they love, about a book they were excited for, and I get that, but don't funnel that into the double FOC and feel justified.

With love from the kid who remembers starting the hobby at 16 with a tyranid battle box and a codex.

Sandant

 sandant wrote:
Maybe I've been down in the fantasy section too long but, isn't double FOC opened up by reaching a 2000 point game? If so it becomes fair game and both players are allowed to use it, I mean grand armies in fantasy function roughly the same but I've never seen anyone complain about a player taking advantage of it. In short complaints about 2000 points being irregular are valid, if most tournaments aren't at 2000 points and you wanted to see a "tournament" army more fitting of your meta and common point values I get that. However, once you hit that magic number, the genie is out of the bottle, it's just list building. I mean we don't complain about that Tau list having allies which unlike double FOC, tyranid scant use.

I know this has gotten very ranty and I apologize but I think this thread was perceived as Tyranid's golden brick road to success town. The idea that somehow JY2 would reveal such a deft and amazing combination of units that the entire internet would sigh with a collective; "Now I get it.... That's how Nids are good!" Sadly this isn't a fantasy world, Tyranid's can be good and by god I'm returning to 40k to try and MAKE them good. We just have to know that Nids aren't top tier all of a sudden, but we are still competitive, Tau and Eldar a we're the flukes to game balance, not Tyranids. To conclude, when a player offers a hard list, and provides a very hard 100% legal list, people seem to have just unleashed their combined dissapointments into this thread. Dissapointments about an army they love, about a book they were excited for, and I get that, but don't funnel that into the double FOC and feel justified.

With love from the kid who remembers starting the hobby at 16 with a tyranid battle box and a codex.

Sandant

Here, have my exalt. For putting in words, what I am often to tired to do.

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

BTW, just wanted to let the audience know that I didn't surprise my opponent with this. I asked him a day before the game if it's ok that we ran (or that I ran) a double-FOC game/list. He had no problems with it. He also could have ran double-FOC's if he had wanted to, but he chose not to. Instead, he chose for more balance instead of overloading like I did.

Coming up today....White Scars. And tomorrow, maybe against Reece if he's got the time.

Anyone want to see how viable a 9 carnifex list is?

 jy2 wrote:


Anyone want to see how viable a 9 carnifex list is?

Absolutely! Perhaps with the Venom/Zoan Bastion strategy bolstering it?

I for one, would have really liked to see your original setup with the 2FOC. I really don't get all of this hysteria over Double Force Org. It's not as bad as allies, imo.

 jy2 wrote:
Anyone want to see how viable a 9 carnifex list is?

My body is ready.

 Eldarain wrote:

 jy2 wrote:


Anyone want to see how viable a 9 carnifex list is?

Absolutely! Perhaps with the Venom/Zoan Bastion strategy bolstering it?

Absolutely....only with my list, it's either Venom or Zoan in a bastion, but not both....unless I run an 8 carnifex list.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I for one, would have really liked to see your original setup with the 2FOC. I really don't get all of this hysteria over Double Force Org. It's not as bad as allies, imo.

Yeah, in this age of allies, dataslates and formations - by the ways none of which tyranids may take - I really don't see the fuss about double-FOC's. Why must we play with a crutch that no one else has?

Anyways, I digress. This battle report may be coming back after people have had time to digest a couple of normal Tyranid battle reports first. Or it may not. We'll see.

I'm looking at Carnifex spam, and I think it can work.

I like the 9 carnifex list. Should be fun.

I hope you don't drop this batrep. I for one wanted to read it. Either way get that money from Reece I think even he would be happy to hand it over.

 ansacs wrote:
I like the 9 carnifex list. Should be fun.

I hope you don't drop this batrep. I for one wanted to read it. Either way get that money from Reece I think even he would be happy to hand it over.

Lol. It'll probably go back into his shop anyways. I am in need of some tyranid flyers.

But it won't be easy. You're talking about a top-tier army, Taudar, being run be an extremely good player against a upper-mid/lower-upper-tier at best army. More importantly, I'm going to be limited by my models so won't be able to run a totally no-holds-barred Tyranid army. But that's ok, I'm going to enjoy the challenge.

Well you are a nice guy. My personal strategy would involve a beerhammer match before hand and an investment in alcohol

Did reece clarify whether his nids challenge includes stronghold and escalation in it? Practically every nid list I have come up with that seems like a good TAC list leans heavily on stronghold assault.

I'd be extremely interested in seeing a Fex spam list in action!

I would love some carnifex spam.

 jy2 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 jy2 wrote:


Anyone want to see how viable a 9 carnifex list is?

Absolutely! Perhaps with the Venom/Zoan Bastion strategy bolstering it?

Absolutely....only with my list, it's either Venom or Zoan in a bastion, but not both....unless I run an 8 carnifex list.

How could you ever get both in a Bastion? Wouldn't it need to be a tyranid prime attached to a venomthrope?

I really want to see the Carnifex heavy game

 ansacs wrote:
Well you are a nice guy. My personal strategy would involve a beerhammer match before hand and an investment in alcohol

Did reece clarify whether his nids challenge includes stronghold and escalation in it? Practically every nid list I have come up with that seems like a good TAC list leans heavily on stronghold assault.

No Escalation, that would be silly! Haha

But Void Shield Assault? Eh, why not? Sure, use em! haha

Cool, what about my startegy of drunken reece tactical advantage? Legal?

It would be kind of awesome to have deathleaper essentially immune to most of the D weapons due to his special snap fire rule.

 ansacs wrote:
Cool, what about my startegy of drunken reece tactical advantage? Legal?

It would be kind of awesome to have deathleaper essentially immune to most of the D weapons due to his special snap fire rule.

Why does my beer taste funny?

because it's dosed with LSD and lithium....

The new tyranid strategy

PrinceOfMadness wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Anyone want to see how viable a 9 carnifex list is?

My body is ready.

haha I was thinking of this as well, it's almost certainly our most competitive option.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

PrinceOfMadness wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Anyone want to see how viable a 9 carnifex list is?

My body is ready.

haha I was thinking of this as well, it's almost certainly our most competitive option.

At 1500pts for 3 units its kind of rough.

 Tomb King wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

PrinceOfMadness wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Anyone want to see how viable a 9 carnifex list is?

My body is ready.

haha I was thinking of this as well, it's almost certainly our most competitive option.

At 1500pts for 3 units its kind of rough.

Well, 1350 for 9 dakkafexes.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

PrinceOfMadness wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Anyone want to see how viable a 9 carnifex list is?

My body is ready.

haha I was thinking of this as well, it's almost certainly our most competitive option.

At 1500pts for 3 units its kind of rough.

Well, 1350 for 9 dakkafexes.

1620 with regen..

 LeadLegion wrote:
Man, I'm stoked about the Reecius vs J Nid report. Think it'll be a classic.

Gutted that the naysayers stole J's mojo for this report mind you, but stoked for the Frontline vid.

Tyranids vs Taudar teaser.


Just had a game against Reece's Taudar. Man oh man....what a game!

Just a few teasers:


1. No Catalyst. I needed Catalyst but didn't get it for any of my psykers.

2. I didn't run a carnifex-spam list. Instead I ran a normal, balanced Tyranid list with a variety of units. Actually, other than my double flyrants, I didn't spam anything at all. So this battle will truly be about army synergy and the strategy/wits of the generals.

3. It was Hammer & Anvil. That is probably the worst type of deployment for Tyranids, especially against an army like Tau!

4. My bugs went 2nd.

5. Synapse was never a problem in my games, especially if you take the bastion with you.


Despite a really uphill battle, my bugs were still in it to the very end.


Look out for the Frontline videorep, coming out tomorrow.

 sandant wrote:
Maybe I've been down in the fantasy section too long but, isn't double FOC opened up by reaching a 2000 point game? If so it becomes fair game and both players are allowed to use it, I mean grand armies in fantasy function roughly the same but I've never seen anyone complain about a player taking advantage of it. In short complaints about 2000 points being irregular are valid, if most tournaments aren't at 2000 points and you wanted to see a "tournament" army more fitting of your meta and common point values I get that. However, once you hit that magic number, the genie is out of the bottle, it's just list building. I mean we don't complain about that Tau list having allies which unlike double FOC, Tyranids can't use.

I know this has gotten very ranty and I apologize but I think this thread was perceived as Tyranid's golden brick road to success town. The idea that somehow JY2 would reveal such a deft and amazing combination of units that the entire internet would sigh with a collective; "Now I get it.... That's how Nids are good!" Sadly this isn't a fantasy world, Tyranid's can be good and by god I'm returning to 40k to try and MAKE them good. We just have to know that Nids aren't top tier all of a sudden, but we are still competitive, Tau and Eldar were the flukes to game balance, not Tyranids. To conclude, when a player offers a hard list, and provides a very hard 100% legal list, people seem to have just unleashed their combined dissapointments into this thread. Dissapointments about an army they love, about a book they were excited for, and I get that, but don't funnel that into the double FOC and feel justified.

With love from the kid who remembers starting the hobby at 16 with a tyranid battle box and a codex.

Sandant

Very well said.

I'm not going to make Tyranids good just by playing them or by saying they're good. Even I will freely admit that they aren't a top-tier army and will have a lot of problematic matchups. However, what I want to show....what I want to educate to the public...is that they aren't as bad as most would think. If you play them properly, you can give most armies competitive games.

 ansacs wrote:
Well you are a nice guy. My personal strategy would involve a beerhammer match before hand and an investment in alcohol

Did reece clarify whether his nids challenge includes stronghold and escalation in it? Practically every nid list I have come up with that seems like a good TAC list leans heavily on stronghold assault.

No, I won't be running Stronghold or Escalation in our game. In a challenge match like this, especially with money/prizes on the line from my opponent, I won't use the advantage of Stronghold unless my opponent was the person to bring it up. After all, his challenge, his money on the line, his rules.

 RiTides wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 jy2 wrote:


Anyone want to see how viable a 9 carnifex list is?

Absolutely! Perhaps with the Venom/Zoan Bastion strategy bolstering it?

Absolutely....only with my list, it's either Venom or Zoan in a bastion, but not both....unless I run an 8 carnifex list.

How could you ever get both in a Bastion? Wouldn't it need to be a tyranid prime attached to a venomthrope?

I really want to see the Carnifex heavy game

My modus operandi for the bastion is venomthrope by itself inside and Zoanthrope with Dominion hiding behind it.

And if I weren't playing against Tau (or mechdar), I would put the biovores on top of the bastion for 2+ cover.

 Reecius wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
Well you are a nice guy. My personal strategy would involve a beerhammer match before hand and an investment in alcohol

Did reece clarify whether his nids challenge includes stronghold and escalation in it? Practically every nid list I have come up with that seems like a good TAC list leans heavily on stronghold assault.

No Escalation, that would be silly! Haha

But Void Shield Assault? Eh, why not? Sure, use em! haha

That's ok. I don't need the advantage.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

PrinceOfMadness wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Anyone want to see how viable a 9 carnifex list is?

My body is ready.

haha I was thinking of this as well, it's almost certainly our most competitive option.

Actually, it isn't.

It's an extremely unbalanced army build that would crush a lot of opponents, especially if they don't have the tools to deal with it, but like all unbalanced lists, it can be exploited.

IMO, the most competitive Tyranid army is a balanced TAC tyranid build.

Bugs in a bastion?


Would that make it a Roach Motel?




I'm a bad boy.

 Ravenous D wrote:
So you're janking your opponent with double force org as evidence that nid dex is good?

Next.

If you dont want to read it, just move on. It takes a lot of time to make batreps and JY2 makes a ton of them. No reason to come in just to make snide remarks. Negative remarks such as this is what makes people not want to do reports.

Thanks for teasers JY2! Cackling madly in anticipation.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Bugs in a bastion?


Would that make it a Roach Motel?




I'm a bad boy.

Haha you should copywrite that it was a good one!

 jy2 wrote:
More importantly, I'm going to be limited by my models so won't be able to run a totally no-holds-barred Tyranid army. But that's ok, I'm going to enjoy the challenge.

I realize it is too late now, but Reecius did say any challenger was welcome to use any of this Nid models to help them out.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Bugs in a bastion?


Would that make it a Roach Motel?




I'm a bad boy.

Lol.

Maybe an oversized ant hill?

coredump wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
More importantly, I'm going to be limited by my models so won't be able to run a totally no-holds-barred Tyranid army. But that's ok, I'm going to enjoy the challenge.

I realize it is too late now, but Reecius did say any challenger was welcome to use any of this Nid models to help them out.

Yeah he did, but I'm good. I've got the models to run what I wanted to test out.

But in the future, I shall borrow his models if I wanted to try out the Tyranid Airforce.

So, five pages and no battle report yet. Dope

So whats the waiting for?

Sorry, but this report is suspended indefinitely.

When I bring it back, you guys will know.