Remember this poll a while back, in the aftermath of the specialist games going away? Well, now we have our answer: the 58 people who voted for White Dwarf are the winners! But, now GW finds themselves in another crisis. Their position hasn't improved at all since the last poll, and now things are bad enough that they've made it into the financial report and caused an overnight loss of a quarter of GW's stock value. So far we've seen GW attempt to solve the crisis by releasing stuff as fast as possible, regardless of quality, and getting into microtransactions. But surely there will be new cuts. So, what next?



White Dwarf 2.0: does anyone really think that "reimagining" your well-known brand name and turning it into little more than a weekly catalog is a successful business plan? TBH the only real question here is when GW puts it out of its misery.

Games Day: a new addition to the list. What is the point of having Games Day anymore? All of the fun events are gone, attendance is a joke, and the only real reason to go is to pick up some Forge World new releases. GW even brags about the fact that the best part of Games Day is getting the opportunity to buy the same GW products you find in your local GW store at the same price. There's hardly anything worthy of the title "Games Day" left anyway, so why not make the cancellation official?

Warhammer World: the same analysis is still true here. Having an open HQ with tons of gaming space and awesome events is a nice prestige thing, but it can't possibly be a net profit for GW and only a tiny minority of their customers will ever go there. Even WotC couldn't keep their gaming HQ profitable and had to close it, and I doubt GW is doing any better. Closing Warhammer World (and moving GW into a more modest office space) cuts expenses without a noticeable impact for most of their customers, so it's win/win.

Retail stores: this is a pretty unlikely one given GW's dominance in the UK market, stubborn insistence on opening new stores in the US, and desire to move everything out of independent stores and into their own website or retail closets. On the other hand, maybe someone will finally step in and point out the obvious fact that it's better to let the dedicated fanboys lose money operating the retail stores than to invest your own money in it. Still, it's probably too much of a dramatic change for GW to be capable of considering it.

Forge World: still probably making a net profit (even if it's at the cost of doing nothing but space marines), but in this difficult economy can a responsible company justify employing all those people to make prestige products when they could be working on more plastic space marine kits with a much higher profit margin? Plus, FW has a habit of doing awful things like marketing and previews, and that makes GW management look bad. And now there's that rumor that FW is going to be brought into "main" GW to consider...

Black Library: probably safe since sales are great, books are a safe and predictable industry, and it gets GW's brand into mainstream stores. On the other hand, does GW really want to let you get into their world with a mere $10 novel? And think of how many space marines you could buy and build in the time it takes you to read that novel...

LotR/Hobbit: it's funny how nothing has changed here. The second movie was another disappointment, the game still isn't selling, and any profits are probably going straight into license fees. And now new releases are pretty limited, so it looks like even GW can't pretend to be interested in the game. Really, the only reason to keep the game is if the license included a commitment to keep it in production for a certain amount of time.

40k army: and a sudden reversal here in the wake of GW's discovery of microtransactions and day-one DLC. While business factors might interfere with the release of new models the rules, on the other hand, are pure profit. Not only can we expect to see every existing army continue to exist we can probably expect them all to get $30 supplements that were thrown together on someone's lunch break. Now that people are used to the idea of having digital-only products GW doesn't even need to waste shelf space on these "books", all they have to do is upload something to the digital store and watch the easy money come in. Bet on this one if you really want to surprise everyone.

WHFB army: same is true for WHFB. Sure, the game sucks and nobody plays it anymore, but it costs you 15 minutes of the janitor's time to release a new rulebook so that's just easy profit from the last few dedicated fans. Though it's probably a little more likely than getting rid of a 40k army since hardly anyone would notice if one disappeared. In fact, I'm not even sure GW hasn't killed off an army or two since the last poll.

Lawyers: they've been surprisingly quiet lately, so I guess this means that they're unlikely to go anywhere. You've got to have a legal department of some kind, and they've finally stopped doing more harm than good to GW.

Other: did I miss something that GW can cut?

None of the above: WOTC buys them first: the vultures are circling, and GW's stock price could completely collapse (even more than it just did) at any moment. So there's still hope that someone a little more competent buys GW and has the sense to see GW's neglected products as an opportunity to exploit instead of an expense to cut.

None of the above: GW goes bankrupt first: the vultures are circling, but why deal with buying the dead weight of GW's management and retail stores when you can wait a bit longer, let them collapse completely, and buy the IP at bargain prices? Meanwhile GW's management will be too busy giving themselves generous retirement packages to deal with pesky little details like running the company and everyone will continue business as usual right up until the end.

BINGO, WE HAVE A WINNER:
None of the above: GW goes bankrupt first: the vultures are circling, but why deal with buying the dead weight of GW's management and retail stores when you can wait a bit longer, let them collapse completely, and buy the IP at bargain prices? Meanwhile GW's management will be too busy giving themselves generous retirement packages to deal with pesky little details like running the company and everyone will continue business as usual right up until the end.

I hope the board gets smart and they finally sack Kirby, but i think it is to late.

 Peregrine wrote:

Retail stores: ....desire to move everything out of independent stores and into their own website or retail closets.

I chose "Other" and you touched on it here. No more independent retailers, either online or otherwise. All sales direct from GW.

White Dwarf: I give it two years tops, where the last iteration lasted for 16 months. I predict the weekly mag will sell poorly, while the monthly one a bit better but still not well enough.

Games Day: I expect GD 2014 to be the last one, so cherish it, GD lovers.

Warhammer World: don't see it closing down unless it's along with the whole company.

Retail Stores: they're here to stay. More stores will be reduced to the 1-man model.

Forge World/Black Library: these are safe investments and don't fail to bring in profits, so they're not going anywhere, either.

Hobbit: they will only release the bare minimum sets, and once the license runs out, poof it goes. Good riddance.

40K army: no army is getting stricken. SoB will continue to languish with more models disappearing from the store, but they'll keep their "codex".

WFB army: I expect Bretonnia and Wood Elves to be either incorporated into other armies or blasted into the sun. These are possibly the two least marketable armies in the two systems, next to Beastmen.

Lawyers: a company of this size needs a legal department, which means they're safe.

None: some of the above will come into effect before the company is sold or folds.

Goodbye "Games" Day, we hardly knew ye.

 FeindusMaximus wrote:
BINGO, WE HAVE A WINNER:
None of the above: GW goes bankrupt first: the vultures are circling, but why deal with buying the dead weight of GW's management and retail stores when you can wait a bit longer, let them collapse completely, and buy the IP at bargain prices? Meanwhile GW's management will be too busy giving themselves generous retirement packages to deal with pesky little details like running the company and everyone will continue business as usual right up until the end.

Despite the poor half year results, GW are still a long way from bankruptcy. As much as people have derided the low growth strategy of GW it dose make them financially resilient. They haven't even lost money, they just had smaller profits than previous years. They don't really NEED to do much.

I suspect we are not going to see big cuts, but stabilization of prices (Carrying on the no yearly price rise, and not getting a price rise with every new codex), an continued fast pace of release for 40k. I think there will be some big changes with WHFB. Not cuts, but something to try and get players back.

Oh, and LotR/Hobbit will be out the door the second the contract will let them.

Games day might be gone, possibly, but then it has become less and less relevant for many years. I don't think many people will miss it.

Most of it is the normal "GW is the evils!!!" and the like. I don't buy that they are in that bad a situation. Yes, they will probably upset a few shareholders with reduced profits, but I don't see it as a big problem. Unfortunately to some people GW can do no right. Hence this kind of thread.

"Games" day definitely, why even waste money on some event that could be used as advertising. I mean they won't even buy tickets to be advertised to so why bother.

The consensus is Games Day but that's really an invalid choice since that writing was on the wall for over a year now.

I voted Warhammer Fantasy. A guy that works at my local place said that there are maybe rumors of a cut to fantasy. As the OP stated, not many people play fantasy anymore and the stock at my local store is the same stock from two years ago, dust and all. It seems to be a dying game over all. Now, He can't guarantee this and there is no backing at the point, but he has been fairly accurate so far.

So many choices!
I think it is quite hard to say. They wouldn't want to alienate any of their specific fan bases by cancelling games, whould they :?

I have voted games day. I think their open days work better and are the way forward

Interesting that you put Forgeworld in the list (and the following opinion probably includes black library) and I will vote for FW. But we won't see it disappear in the way you explain, it will just be changed for the worse. Let me explain (or ramble):

Personally, I feel lessons can be learned by wider GW from Forgeworld and how they engage the community. For example: Facebook and youtube marketing, pre-releases, conferences, events, weekenders, etc etc. People are generally excited to keep tabs on what FW are up to and what they put out.

However, recently, I get the feeling that management have started to meddle a little too much in what FW work on and what they put out. Take this comment FW put out on facebook:

Q: Just curious does anyone know of the black fire pass project is still being worked on?
Forgeworld: Hi, I'm afraid it is on indefinate (sic) hold at the moment.

Now, did they [FW] make the decision to hold or were they instructed to? I reckon Tamurkhan was quite a nice earner and a welcome addition to fantasy (Chaos Dwarfs amongst other things). But the recent direction FW is going in feels like they are being "leant on" to take certain paths:

- No new Imperial Armour books rumoured or on the horizon other than the 2nd edition releases
- Warhammer Forge not planning much in the way of new releases (wasn't the K'daai Destroyer being worked on a while back)
- The huge focus on the Horus Heresy. The quality of the product is high undoubtedly but I always felt that FW was never about going for the easiest money but to explore the universes in ways that the main design studio doesn't. The heresy series does that, but I get the feeling that there's a little too much emphasis at present and it feels a little forced in some ways.

Personally, if management starts to pull in FW more and more and start to exert more and more control, then I fear that FW will start to loose a lot of what makes it attractive to the fans. I am a huge fan of FW. I love the Imperial Armour series of books, the resin models, the attention to detail, the more indepth exploration of the universe and so on. But I am more than a little disappointed at what could be in store should management feel the need to micromanage FW more and more.

Ruberu wrote:
I voted Warhammer Fantasy. A guy that works at my local place said that there are maybe rumors of a cut to fantasy. As the OP stated, not many people play fantasy anymore and the stock at my local store is the same stock from two years ago, dust and all. It seems to be a dying game over all. Now, He can't guarantee this and there is no backing at the point, but he has been fairly accurate so far.

I'd doubt even GW would cut Fantasy, since it is by far their oldest IP and it would send very bad signals to their stockholders if they were to drop it.

Games Day is already gone, if the last couple of years are anything to go by. I can see it being replaced with a Golden Demon event at WHW instead.

 zedmeister wrote:
Interesting that you put Forgeworld in the list

I tried to cover every possible option, even the unlikely ones. I don't actually think that all of those have any realistic chance of being cut.

Now, did they [FW] make the decision to hold or were they instructed to?

I don't know, but the trend of ignoring the WHFB stuff has been going on for a while. It seems like they had some ideas for cool monster models, but not really a sustainable interest in the game. We never (IIRC) heard any detailed rumors about upcoming WHFB book releases, so was there ever any solid plan to cancel?

- No new Imperial Armour books rumoured or on the horizon other than the 2nd edition releases

This is more of a concern IMO, but again it goes back quite a while. Even before the Heresy stuff started coming out it didn't seem like they had a very clear plan for the IA books. IA8 went from a two-part book to a single book and some vague "maybe we'll come back to it later" thoughts, and IA11 and IA12 seemed to change concepts quite a few times before settling on what we actually got. But the updates have been pretty solid, and when we did finally get it IA12 was awesome. So I can imagine that there just isn't a strong desire to get a particular book out, and the vague concepts are just sitting around waiting for something worth making to emerge from them.

- The huge focus on the Horus Heresy. The quality of the product is high undoubtedly but I always felt that FW was never about going for the easiest money but to explore the universes in ways that the main design studio doesn't. The heresy series does that, but I get the feeling that there's a little too much emphasis at present and it feels a little forced in some ways.

I don't know, the impression I get is that the Heresy stuff is something that a lot of people, FW staff included, have wanted for a long time. And if their quoted sales numbers are honest then people are buying it, the top 10 sellers for the past month are all space marine kits and the first Heresy book is still selling well enough to get on the list. It wouldn't surprise me at all if everyone at FW is just having so much fun with the long-awaited Heresy project that everything else has become a distant secondary concern.

Personally, if management starts to pull in FW more and more and start to exert more and more control, then I fear that FW will start to loose a lot of what makes it attractive to the fans.

I do worry about this though. If nothing else, two words should terrify any FW customer: finecast titans.


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 Krellnus wrote:
I'd doubt even GW would cut Fantasy, since it is by far their oldest IP and it would send very bad signals to their stockholders if they were to drop it.

I doubt we'll see a complete end to WHFB in the foreseeable future, even if the models are just plain stupid and the game should be replaced by the LOTR games, but I don't think the investors would be too worried if they killed off an army or two. They could pretty easily spin it as cleaning up under-performing product lines to focus on the core identity of the brand, and I doubt many of the shareholders know enough about gaming to have any kind of informed response to cutting a few model kits.

 Peregrine wrote:
even if the models are just plain stupid and the game should be replaced by the LOTR games

You wound me sir.

 Peregrine wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me at all if everyone at FW is just having so much fun with the long-awaited Heresy project that everything else has become a distant secondary concern.

I think this has more to do with the stopping of the IA books than anything. It is a lack of control centrally that is causing it rather than too much IMO. FW have always said they do what interests them and what they have ideas for. I think they have lots of interest and ideas for the the HH stuff and everything else has been forgotten.

As for the WHFB stuff, it wouldn't surprise me if it was not selling very well at all.

They'll introduce no-man stores. There will only be Space Marines for sale and everything else will be direct only with a computer and a card machine on the wall.

 Peregrine wrote:

This is more of a concern IMO, but again it goes back quite a while. Even before the Heresy stuff started coming out it didn't seem like they had a very clear plan for the IA books. IA8 went from a two-part book to a single book and some vague "maybe we'll come back to it later" thoughts, and IA11 and IA12 seemed to change concepts quite a few times before settling on what we actually got. But the updates have been pretty solid, and when we did finally get it IA12 was awesome. So I can imagine that there just isn't a strong desire to get a particular book out, and the vague concepts are just sitting around waiting for something worth making to emerge from them.

- The huge focus on the Horus Heresy. The quality of the product is high undoubtedly but I always felt that FW was never about going for the easiest money but to explore the universes in ways that the main design studio doesn't. The heresy series does that, but I get the feeling that there's a little too much emphasis at present and it feels a little forced in some ways.

I don't know, the impression I get is that the Heresy stuff is something that a lot of people, FW staff included, have wanted for a long time. And if their quoted sales numbers are honest then people are buying it, the top 10 sellers for the past month are all space marine kits and the first Heresy book is still selling well enough to get on the list. It wouldn't surprise me at all if everyone at FW is just having so much fun with the long-awaited Heresy project that everything else has become a distant secondary concern.

It's all speculation and random guessing from me. There's still a huge wealth of background that FW still have left to explore: Genestealer Cults, the long desired Ad Mech (finally being released), Adeptus Arbites, Exodite Eldar, alternative Imperial Guard regiments, even the Demirug! I do hope you are right that the recent focus on the Heresy is down to the FW studio being so enthusiastic that they can't help but work on it. And that is another aspect of FW that really shines through - everyone at FW are always so enthustiastic about their products and that enthusiasm is infectious.

Don't get me wrong, I really like what FW are putting out in terms of the Heresy. I've even started building a White Scars force as well as getting the Ad Mech stuff. It's just that the more management get involved the more concerned I get.

 zedmeister wrote:
There's still a huge wealth of background that FW still have left to explore: Genestealer Cults, the long desired Ad Mech (finally being released), Adeptus Arbites, Exodite Eldar, alternative Imperial Guard regiments, even the Demirug!

True, but I think the important question is how much desire is there to explore it? I don't think they have any interest in exploring just for the sake of exploring (at least I hope they don't), so that unexplored background wouldn't matter too much unless they had a compelling idea for using it. If you look at all of the IA books they've done there have been variant army lists and obscure new units, but all of that exploration has still had strong ties to the parent codex. Something like a genestealer cult or arbites wouldn't have that same connection.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
They'll introduce no-man stores. There will only be Space Marines for sale and everything else will be direct only with a computer and a card machine on the wall.

This could actually be done. A consumer electronics chain in the US called "Best Buy" has electronic vendors in airports and malls all over the US where you can buy anything from a video game console, to an iPad, to cheap headphones. I've seen similar things in airports in Europe. Just set one of these bad boys up in a mall somewhere and the only person you have to pay is the guy that restocks it once a week. It would cost about the same as it does to place a vending machine in the mall. This could be a decent idea in larger or in markets where they have a limited presence and want to test the waters before they put in an actual retail store.

In the end though, this game is about getting people into a door and showing people the social aspects of the game.

LotR. I have yet to see anyone on here who plays. Now I know I'll find People in the dedicated area of the forums, but I've never seen the Hobbit stuff in anyone's sig.

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
LotR. I have yet to see anyone on here who plays. Now I know I'll find People in the dedicated area of the forums, but I've never seen the Hobbit stuff in anyone's sig.

Got to agree. While it was clearly popular during the original run of releases, I've never seen a single person at my shop try the system, nor seen anyone buy anything for it.

LotR/Hobbit are under contract that I'm sure has a buyout clause in it. With the last Hobbit movie still to be released, they have at least 1 more year on the contract; I would expect at least 2 more years to cover beyond the movie release and following DVD/home release. Can't be cut nor not supported without penalty.

Warhammer Fantasy is a core product that while I don't think the gaming community would care so much about seeing go away, especially after the most recent edition, I think the stock holders would see that as a major loss, thus devaluing the stock even more. Can't be cut due to stock crash.

Retail stores are what should be cut, but I think GW thinks that they can squeeze the most money out of it's customers by having them. I tend to agree that GW would go GW store or GW mail order only before they shutdown their retail arm.

Games Day and White Dwarf are low cost items that don't really impact the bottom line. I would expect them to go away, but even if they don't, it's not a huge impact.

Forgeworld and Black Library are probably profitable on their own and will stick around. It appears Forgeworld is now part of GWs high cost, high margin business model and is probably seen as key to keeping them in the black.

I vote lawyers, but they already got rid of Gill Stevenson, so don't forget that Peregrine. However, I think it is most likely that they'll fire Foley and Lardner and file a malpractice claim. In a financial state like this, not having to pay a million dollars in fees might seem like too attractive a possibility to pass up.

 Steve steveson wrote:
Despite the poor half year results, GW are still a long way from bankruptcy. As much as people have derided the low growth strategy of GW it dose make them financially resilient. They haven't even lost money, they just had smaller profits than previous years. They don't really NEED to do much.

Whilst you are technically correct, their cash position also declined by ~£4.7m over the half year (approx. 33%).

It must be depressing to be a GW employee, log onto the web (without GW approval of course), and see DakkaDakka's predictions of demise.

text removed.

reds8n

I hope they go bankrupt that latest codex was a donkey diorama turd

Well, I think it will be business as usual, they are a long way from bankruptcy and the end was nigh ten years ago, according to some, nothing new to see here.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
They'll introduce no-man stores. There will only be Space Marines for sale and everything else will be direct only with a computer and a card machine on the wall.

Thanks to my business acumen I have already gone beyond that stage in my planning.

The new GW will work like this:

You log on to a website, and spend money from credit card, debit card, or from your bank account. For ultimate convenience you can set up a direct debit.

You receive an automated email acknowledging your payment.

You go about your normal life. No messing around, no fuss and bother about waiting for the post man to deliver your goods.

Do people even go to games day anymore? I remember reading that blog where only 37 people showed up in Germany.

I don't understand what could possibly be of interest to any gamer at games day.

I wonder when they will completely eliminate stores and start implementing vending machine kiosks to sell their product?

Clearly staff and company interaction with customers is overrated and should be completely curbed as it interferes with GW's vision of hobby (which buying stuff directly from GW)

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
They'll introduce no-man stores. There will only be Space Marines for sale and everything else will be direct only with a computer and a card machine on the wall.

Thanks to my business acumen I have already gone beyond that stage in my planning.

The new GW will work like this:

You log on to a website, and spend money from credit card, debit card, or from your bank account. For ultimate convenience you can set up a direct debit.

You receive an automated email acknowledging your payment.

You go about your normal life. No messing around, no fuss and bother about waiting for the post man to deliver your goods.

Defiance games beat you to it with their Kickstarter. And JRAB. And many others.

I voted for the White Dwarf. Tha crap keeps getting roled out, but it makes little sales. And with the consistant reduction of actual content, it is becoming little more than a bad, tacky advertising magazine/catalogue.
WHFB and 40K are here to stay-their iconic games.

 Rayvon wrote:
Well, I think it will be business as usual, they are a long way from bankruptcy and the end was nigh ten years ago, according to some, nothing new to see here.

Ah, the usual response. The End isn't nigh but its a lot closer now than it ever has been.

In terms of what will be first on the block then Games Day seems like an obvious choice. GW clearly has little interest in it anymore and it is an easy thing to cut.

Its difficult to tell what will be cut after that althoguh combined army books wouldn't surpise me and its actually a good idea from a balance perspective.

 Palindrome wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:
Well, I think it will be business as usual, they are a long way from bankruptcy and the end was nigh ten years ago, according to some, nothing new to see here.

Ah, the usual response. The End isn't nigh but its a lot closer now than it ever has been.

In terms of what will be first on the block then Games Day seems like an obvious choice. GW clearly has little interest in it anymore and it is an easy thing to cut.

Its difficult to tell what will be cut after that althoguh combined army books wouldn't surpise me and its actually a good idea from a balance perspective.

If my google-fu and quoting skills were better, I could find "the end is nigh" predictions every year for the last 15 years or so, I could also find "maybe not tomorrow, but soon" as well. GW still has a lot of expense (assets, stores) that they could cut, should they choose to. They're biggest challenge is going to be how quickly they will respond to this (if they even do). There are always ups and downs during a year, considering this doesn't include christmas, they might have made up a lot of ground.

That being said, they're in trouble because they're reached their inelastic price point - just look at all of the "limited ed" stuff they're still trying to flog months later. People aren't spending that much, and the wallets are finally being heard.

I'll vote for White Dwarf (again). They just can't seem to get it right. FW as we know it will be a close second, only because I don't trust GW not to make it worse price-wise, somehow.

Voted Games Day, although reading the accounts of the event this year really it has already happened.

What a shame.

 Cruentus wrote:

If my google-fu and quoting skills were better, I could find "the end is nigh" predictions every year for the last 15 years or so,

So? Its not hard to find people saying anything on the internet.

What you need to consider is that many of the rational people who have been saying that GW is in trouble (who rarely if ever say that the end is nigh by the way) have taken their stance due to GW's past financial statements seasoned by their reaction to the frankly stupid business decisions that GW is prone to making. The end is still not nigh although with their plummetting share price its not beyond the realms of possiblity that there may well be new management at GW towers sooner rather than later.

I am actually quite suprised that this mid year is so bad as last years report showed signs of stabalising their declining revenues.

GW won't cut highstreet retail stores in the UK ever - they might close a few here and there but they won't shut down that operation. Though considering the insane costs of running a shop on the highstreet it likely costs them a fortune each year


Those same high costs are the reason we've only got independents in the biggest of towns; if you want a shop in a half decent spot of the town the rates etc... are very high. It's a UK wide problem that small shops are very hard to open and keep viable and I've seen a lot of smaller stores either struggling or changing owners a fair bit.

I'd expect if the GW stores in the UK diminished significantly you'd not only see GW taking big losses, but also see the whole gaming scene reduce.


Like it or not GW haters GW does bring in a LOT of new blood into the wargaming world. If we lost them it would be a huge blow to the industry as a whole - yes it would leave a big gap but chances are it would take a fair while to fill and likely no one would (heck GW are the only company big enough to have their own stores - even PP don't have any of their own).



GW might have taken less profit but they still took profit; they've also a very powerful IP and a lot of resources they could tap into to provide additional income sources if they needed to. Heck they could sell out the IP to Hollywood - yes it would likely mean that hte background stories would be utterly destroyed in the films; but it would likely bring in a big chunk of cash.

Heck it might almost be worth doing just to get a huge increase in market exposure (although I think after the LotR incident GW would be more prepared to lose a lot of those new customers in the short term.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
They'll introduce no-man stores. There will only be Space Marines for sale and everything else will be direct only with a computer and a card machine on the wall.

Or they could just try to do GW Vending Machines for most product, although spray paint might be an issue due to sales laws in several areas.

 Overread wrote:
GW won't cut highstreet retail stores in the UK ever - they might close a few here and there but they won't shut down that operation. Though considering the insane costs of running a shop on the highstreet it likely costs them a fortune each year


Those same high costs are the reason we've only got independents in the biggest of towns; if you want a shop in a half decent spot of the town the rates etc... are very high. It's a UK wide problem that small shops are very hard to open and keep viable and I've seen a lot of smaller stores either struggling or changing owners a fair bit.

I'd expect if the GW stores in the UK diminished significantly you'd not only see GW taking big losses, but also see the whole gaming scene reduce.


Like it or not GW haters GW does bring in a LOT of new blood into the wargaming world. If we lost them it would be a huge blow to the industry as a whole - yes it would leave a big gap but chances are it would take a fair while to fill and likely no one would (heck GW are the only company big enough to have their own stores - even PP don't have any of their own).



GW might have taken less profit but they still took profit; they've also a very powerful IP and a lot of resources they could tap into to provide additional income sources if they needed to. Heck they could sell out the IP to Hollywood - yes it would likely mean that hte background stories would be utterly destroyed in the films; but it would likely bring in a big chunk of cash.

Heck it might almost be worth doing just to get a huge increase in market exposure (although I think after the LotR incident GW would be more prepared to lose a lot of those new customers in the short term.

I just have to say, I disagree strongly with your assements of GW bringing gamers into this hobby. I can fully stand by the average group of new comers from what I have seen is 1 out of 5 interested gamers of all ages get pulled into the hobby through GW. The other 4 see the prices, the poor game rules and the absurd company practices if they stay around for a whyll and walk away and go back to video gaming and or other games like board games and or card games ( nothing wrong with either of those three mind you ). Many of my old time friends do not have any interest in wargaming thinking it is all like GW and rather play other types of games. I myself found GW lacking and way too over priced and if I was not introduced into 15mm sci fi as well as other wargames I would not be playing wargaming and setting up my own company right now.

So I would argue the little good GW does is countered by a lot of people who take a look and fairly quickly lose interest in what they can only see of the whole hobby through GW, leaving a bad taste in their mouth they go off and do other things, and only a few get drawn into the hobby through GW or those with the net like us , find out about other companies and learn what the hobby really is and should be about .

 Peregrine wrote:
LotR/Hobbit: it's funny how nothing has changed here. The second movie was another disappointment, the game still isn't selling, and any profits are probably going straight into license fees. And now new releases are pretty limited, so it looks like even GW can't pretend to be interested in the game. Really, the only reason to keep the game is if the license included a commitment to keep it in production for a certain amount of time.

Yeah. All the specialist games got rounded up and shot, this is the last survivor.

I am amazed that people think GW will go bankrupt. The IP GW owns is simply too valuable on the secondary market to let this happen.

GW could return to profitability solely on the backs of the IP it owns, with careful shopping and licensing agreements. I imagine if sales continue to decline you will see exactly this.

Authorizing Fantasy Flight to create specialist games with miniatures could be a big first step. Shopping out 40k and Fantasy to a AAA video game publisher and closing all the shovelware BS. Working with some external publisher on a unified 40k/Fantasy rules and tournament set.

3 simple changes, that would require very little involvement from GW, each would drastically cut costs and improve profitability.

It could cut it's non European divisions, supply those markets purely through mail order - with the VAT advantage.

And if they wanted to go the whole hog they could distribute everything within Europe through somewhere like Jersey.

underfire wargaming - I suspect views vary based on country. Mine come from the UK where GW has a much stronger hold. In other countries where they don't dominate the highstreet and where the market is more reliant on independents which have a wider range of franchises I suspect that the influence of GW is less.


As for the price issue I find much of is isn't just GW's actual prices but a perception of them. They are seen as expensive and for some reason vastly more so than many other hobbies - despite the fact that something like a new generation console - a good level PC for gaming - etc... can all cost as much as a full army.

It's certainly not a dirt cheap hobby but in comparison its not beyond other markets. I think the problem is its just too expensive for many younger generations - I also do agree that its startup costs are high and that they could do a lot better with a cheaper startup option to lure people in .

I voted LOTR/Hobbit, but yeah, Games Day is probably the very next thing to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Linkdead wrote:
I am amazed that people think GW will go bankrupt. The IP GW owns is simply too valuable on the secondary market to let this happen.

Not really.

The IP is valuable enough that if they did go bankrupt it would be one of they sold.

40K lives on with or without GW.

j_p_chess wrote:
I hope they go bankrupt that latest codex was a donkey diorama turd

Even as a Tyranid player those are some serious sad entitlement issues to wish unemployment on thousands of people because your toys aren't good enough.

Apparently they cut GW HQ Germany instead, maybe USA. Not into the the whole rumours thing but who knows.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.nz/2014/01/games-workshop-germany-shut-down.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Faeit212+%28Faeit+212%29

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I voted LOTR/Hobbit, but yeah, Games Day is probably the very next thing to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Linkdead wrote:
I am amazed that people think GW will go bankrupt. The IP GW owns is simply too valuable on the secondary market to let this happen.

Not really.

The IP is valuable enough that if they did go bankrupt it would be one of they sold.

40K lives on with or without GW.

But the ramification is what kind of support would an IP get? Would it take months if not years to sort through what was bought? Unlike TSR which worked into WoTC and then subsequently Hasbro, a dissolved GW would mean the IP properties would be over-analyzed and everything dissected in order to figure out what to do with that property.

 Overread wrote:
underfire wargaming - I suspect views vary based on country. Mine come from the UK where GW has a much stronger hold. In other countries where they don't dominate the highstreet and where the market is more reliant on independents which have a wider range of franchises I suspect that the influence of GW is less.


As for the price issue I find much of is isn't just GW's actual prices but a perception of them. They are seen as expensive and for some reason vastly more so than many other hobbies - despite the fact that something like a new generation console - a good level PC for gaming - etc... can all cost as much as a full army.

It's certainly not a dirt cheap hobby but in comparison its not beyond other markets. I think the problem is its just too expensive for many younger generations - I also do agree that its startup costs are high and that they could do a lot better with a cheaper startup option to lure people in .

That is fair enough it does depend on were is your geographic area as yes their seems to be a rather big difference in the wargaming market set up from North America compared too the UK, I wonder what main land Europe is like?

Yes I can see where your going, but we should always compare any hobby with the same type of hobby, apples vs oranges doesn't really make much sense . If we do compare GW's games to other companies we do see a lot of important differences, I agree it is a rather high price for the younger crowd to get into let alone the older crowd who has other things they must use their wallets for . In the end this is also a double edged sword, yes they do what I said earlier in harm but also due too their high prices it allows starting companies like mine to be able to enter the market and when selling at a reasonable price to have a chance at bringing something different too the market. GW if they really wanted too could lower their prices so low that any other company would struggle to just break a little above breaking even.

However thankfully for guys like me this is not the case, though they could defiantly bring down the prices for everyone who does play their games, however I think the biggest issue for me and why I never got into 40k or Warhammer really came down too the rules and setting, the rules I never really liked at all, very restrictive and the settings never were of my taste. That however is a personal opinion and one that everyone shares different views on.

anyhow thank you for your reply, I agree on a few things with you, I just personally do feel that the rest of the hobby would not be truly hurt in the long run if things went that way, however who knows what could happen? though it seems most gaming clubs make most of their sales in card games and board games now adays .

 marielle wrote:
It could cut it's non European divisions, supply those markets purely through mail order - with the VAT advantage.

And if they wanted to go the whole hog they could distribute everything within Europe through somewhere like Jersey.

I think the Revenue have stamped on that rule, actually.

The other thing is that the retail chain is their main marketing mechanism. If they went to mail order only, a lot of potential customers would never realise the company existed.

 WarOne wrote:
But the ramification is what kind of support would an IP get? Would it take months if not years to sort through what was bought? Unlike TSR which worked into WoTC and then subsequently Hasbro, a dissolved GW would mean the IP properties would be over-analyzed and everything dissected in order to figure out what to do with that property.

I make no claims about what 40K would look like on the other side of such a transition, only that 40K's existence doesn't depend on GW (whereas the opposite is most certainly true!).

underfire wargaming wrote:
though it seems most gaming clubs make most of their sales in card games and board games now adays .

I suspect that's partly a result of mark-up. The cards might sell for less but I suspect that the profit margin is greater on them because they are a lot cheaper to buy in. GW models and other miniature ranges I suspect that whilst they cost more the margin for profit is less as they cost more for the shop to stock.


It's a pattern you see in a fair few markets where the high priced items don't actually make the greatest amount of profit for the retailer.

Nice thread. I've voted for LOTR/Hobbit.

 Overread wrote:

underfire wargaming wrote:
though it seems most gaming clubs make most of their sales in card games and board games now adays .

I suspect that's partly a result of mark-up. The cards might sell for less but I suspect that the profit margin is greater on them because they are a lot cheaper to buy in. GW models and other miniature ranges I suspect that whilst they cost more the margin for profit is less as they cost more for the shop to stock.

There's actually only about a 30% profit margin on CCGs, barring singles sales (and that depends entirely on how much your FLGS buys them for). It's offset mostly by sheer volume of sales, with prerelease event nights pulling in a few grand easily in event entries alone, and actual releases doing similarly well on actual product.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 marielle wrote:
It could cut it's non European divisions, supply those markets purely through mail order - with the VAT advantage.

And if they wanted to go the whole hog they could distribute everything within Europe through somewhere like Jersey.

I think the Revenue have stamped on that rule, actually.

The other thing is that the retail chain is their main marketing mechanism. If they went to mail order only, a lot of potential customers would never realise the company existed.

I didn't say anything about cutting the retail chain in the UK (but then that is pretty fluid anyway, with shops opening and closing all the time), and possibly in Europe (English speaking of course ).

But from a business stand point it makes perfect sense to cut the US division, not least because the majority of the bad news stories, and poor decisions, that fill this, and other forums, come out of that division.It makes perfect sense to use the VAT advantage and supply that market remotely. The same applies to all non-EU markets.

And if they are really serious about maximising their revenue, with a view to controlling price (a coded way of saying cutting prices in the medium term) they will stop supplying product to online discounters.Or if they must continue with these arrangements, to restrict to the discount to 5%, and use any infringement as a way of getting out of any contract. The discounters get far more out of these arrangements than GW, and are quick to pass off the blame when things go wrong.

Retail stores for sure. Even here in the city of New York we have but a single GW store on 8th street i think (two others closed i believe). It is probably the smallest GW i have ever seen, though the other ones i saw were in the UK. Either way if they're losing players they're going to downsize the business, as removing products such as Fantasy or the Hobbit will lose them even more players.

Goodbye games day. We watched you become a monster and we're glad to see you go

Their wrists.



Was that inappropriate? Eh, who cares?

I am fairly certain warhammer world is going to become a paid-entry venue, going on the recruitment pages from GW.

So, not cut, but no longer free to enter. How this will affect the warhammer world store (my usual) is unknown. If I have to pay to get to the only GW store I don't have to pay large car park fees or bus travel to get to, I won't be going there at all.

I suspect they'll do WW what they are going to local stores - not charging to enter, but giving booking tickets per purchase made at a GW store. So that if you want to book to play you've got to present a ticket (ergo purchase from GW direct).

Though the ticket thing seems odd because it really only comes into play when there are more bookers than tables - rest of the time it seems to be fairly plain come and play.

(honestly I don't get it - its not really giving us anything we didn't have already - they really should have done a £1=£0.01 rewards card instead )

Nah, almost certainly charging to enter- the studio job description literally states that visitors will be paying to see displays. Perhaps a layout change is going to happen...

I'll be honest - I went to see the studio one time - its good but not really good enough to pay to enter. Especially when every single local GW store has good quality models on display for free.

And I don't think its worth paying just to see the centre display (don't get me wrong its fantastic and must have taken hours to design, build and paint). They'd have to seriously expand what's on offer - or make the cost tiny.

Can't see it happening myself.

Hopefully not an army faction in 40k or WHFB. The opinion my friends have is that GW is a company of gamers and no business people.

They should focus on their IP. Their IP and fluff are strong, so much so that players who became disenchanted with the table top still followed BL and bought electronic games like DOW or SM. Speaking from my local community of course.

They should focus on diversifying their portfolio and getting other markets such as computer games. I think Games Day and rethinking strategy should be the next best options.

Games day / golden demon is all but dead now anyway. GDUK was terrible to the point of me actually dreading 'having' to go (as a painter, I sort of need to have stuff out there that people recognise).

winterdyne wrote:
I am fairly certain warhammer world is going to become a paid-entry venue, going on the recruitment pages from GW.

So, not cut, but no longer free to enter. How this will affect the warhammer world store (my usual) is unknown. If I have to pay to get to the only GW store I don't have to pay large car park fees or bus travel to get to, I won't be going there at all.

Where is this on the site? I'm curious now.

http://careers.games-workshop.com/category/vacancies-by-role/visitor-centre/

Those two jobs both make it pretty clear where WHW is heading I think.

winterdyne wrote:
http://careers.games-workshop.com/category/vacancies-by-role/visitor-centre/

Those two jobs both make it pretty clear where WHW is heading I think.

For convenience

Warhammer World Studio Manager: Lenton, UK
Thursday 16 January, 2014
About the Job

Do you have what it takes to manage the Warhammer World Studio and lead a team to produce truly inspirational world class displays of Games Workshop miniatures that hobbyists the world over will travel and pay to see?

We’re looking for someone to design, plan and create amazing displays of Games Workshop miniatures to the highest standard. You will be able to produce these displays using a variety of modeling and painting disciplines, focusing on every detail.

You will manage a team of talented staff who will work to achieve our ambitious goals. You will lead by example, knowing how to find the best way to get each job done, and enjoy challenging yourself and your team to produce the best possible work.

You will be responsible for building displays making full use of the range of Games Workshop miniatures and scenery, creating anything from small vignettes to huge battle scenes for the exhibition in Warhammer World. You will produce proposals for all projects and then deliver them to an agreed plan.

You will ensure you have the right team of people, setting goals and following up on their work to make sure they deliver to the agreed standards. You and your team will also deliver other projects such as creating scenery for the event hall, and organising and running hobby demonstrations and workshops.

About Games Workshop

Games Workshop is a business with a strong internal culture which means we have a very definite set of ideas, beliefs and ways of doing business. We believe that how you behave does matter, therefore we believe that attitudes – such as honesty and integrity – are even more important than skills. We will happily teach you the skills needed for many roles if you bring a great attitude to your work.

Every staff member is dedicated to constantly making things better for our customers, whether this is by providing ever better products or delivering ever greater service. We are hard working, committed, cheerful and above all we put the needs of the business first in our decision-making.

We have a strong culture of personal development at Games Workshop and there are many resources and opportunities for both personal and professional development. If the way you behave at work and the attitudes you display fit with ours, it is highly likely you will be successful, well rewarded and happy. However, it is only fair to say that people who don’t fit with our culture, or who play at fitting, will be unhappy and consequently unsuccessful.

You can read more about Games Workshop’s business culture here.

Other Essential Information

Closing date: Applications must be received by midnight, UK time on Sunday 9th February 2014.

Our reference number: Our internal reference number for this vacancy is 1504.

How to Apply

The most important thing we require is a letter telling us why you want this job. It may also help to include an up-to-date CV.

When you have gathered this information, you can click here to apply using our online application system. Current UK staff members should use their iTrent username and password when prompted to log in.

- See more at: http://careers.games-workshop.com/2014/01/16/warhammer-world-studio-manager-lenton-uk/#sthash.d4dxJiCC.dpuf

winterdyne wrote:
http://careers.games-workshop.com/category/vacancies-by-role/visitor-centre/

Those two jobs both make it pretty clear where WHW is heading I think.

Cheers!

Oh dear is all I can say. Took 'em long enough. I don't have a very high opinion of GW, but Warhammer World was always a good place to go, and it helped that it was somewhat local.

Might not mean "pay to enter," hopefully.

Perhaps "pay" is in reference to the plane trip, or just in reference to going to any other part of the building but the store / gaming area? Admittedly, I never been to Warhammer World, so I could just be talking nonsense.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Might not mean "pay to enter," hopefully.

Perhaps "pay" is in reference to the plane trip, or just in reference to going to any other part of the building but the store / gaming area? Admittedly, I never been to Warhammer World, so I could just be talking nonsense.

The only other parts are Bugman's and the miniatures hall. I see them charging for the latter, even though it's just a relatively small room filled with 'Eavy metal painted minis. The previous museum with the old Games Day mega displays (another thing that has fallen by the wayside) and the life size dioramas was worth the ticket price. This one, less so.

"Do you have what it takes to manage the Warhammer World Studio and lead a team to produce truly inspirational world class displays of Games Workshop miniatures that hobbyists the world over will travel and pay to see?"

LOL.

They want people to pay to look at displays. They really think they can turn it into a tourist destination that people will pay to take a tour of? That's like Gamesdays without any games going on. Oh.. wait...

.

 frozenwastes wrote:
"Do you have what it takes to manage the Warhammer World Studio and lead a team to produce truly inspirational world class displays of Games Workshop miniatures that hobbyists the world over will travel and pay to see?"

LOL.

They want people to pay to look at displays. They really think they can turn it into a tourist destination that people will pay to take a tour of? That's like Gamesdays without any games going on. Oh.. wait...

.

This is the miniatures hall.


It's not that big. It's probably about the size of a large GW store. If this is what's being alluded to WRT payment they'll only get a healthy mix of the rich and the ignorant enter that part. If it's the whole building.... Oh dear.

 Peregrine wrote:
Remember this poll a while back, in the aftermath of the specialist games going away? Well, now we have our answer: the 58 people who voted for White Dwarf are the winners!

What? White Dwarf hasn't been dropped, it's been changed. That's like saying Tyranids just got dropped this month.

The new WD and Warhammer Visions (need an abbrev. for this) was a smart move on GW's part. A cash-grab, yes, but a smart move. There is still a monthly magazine, which people will still buy, and will bring GW in arguably more money, thanks to its increased price tag. And those people who think it's too expensive? They'll be buying the weekly WD, at least once a month, if not every day. The brilliant thing, from a sales point of view, of cheaper items, such as WD Weekly, is that people, when it comes to buy them think "oh, it's only £2.50". £2.50 is spare change. Most people aren't too bothered about parting with coins, but many are bothered about parting with notes, as you had to do for the old WD. A lot of people will fritter away their spare change as they pop into a GW store every week. This means there'll be many people paying £5-10 a month anyway, in addition to those paying an extra £7.50 for WV.

Yes, we can complain here, on our forum, tucked away in a small, dark corner of the GW hobby, that WD and WV are the worst magazines ever. Maybe they are. But. People. Will. Still. Buy. Them.

Heh, I see my Titan diorama in that photo.

Too many options... I voted "WHFB army", but they are able and willing to destroy so much of the hobby!

What will be next? The suspense in killing me!

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I hope the board gets smart and they finally sack Kirby, but i think it is to late.

It's tough to do that when he owns as much of the company as he does. He will be on the board or in management in some capacity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I voted they sack a 40k army - I think sisters is nothing more than a pipe dream. We all think something is coming down the pipeline but it never materializes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 frozenwastes wrote:
"Do you have what it takes to manage the Warhammer World Studio and lead a team to produce truly inspirational world class displays of Games Workshop miniatures that hobbyists the world over will travel and pay to see?"

LOL.

They want people to pay to look at displays. They really think they can turn it into a tourist destination that people will pay to take a tour of? That's like Gamesdays without any games going on. Oh.. wait...

.

I did this back in 1998. The tour comes complete with how they design their models, how they make their models (this was when they only had two machines that stamped out space marines and dark Eldar for the new third edition box that had just dropped), and seeing the displays that had been in the WD. If I recall correctly the tour cost £2 per person and you got a free space marine or dark Eldar. They have tours like these all over the world. Go to savanah, ga and you can pay $5 and look at Girl Scout odds and ends. Go to st. Augustine, fl and you can pay $10 to walk around Flagler museum and look at Tiffany stained glass on the ceiling or the random exhibits they have like the lion that was given to Winston Churchill (why it's in st. Augustine, I don't know but someone had it stuffed and bought it for the tourists to see).

Point is, these positions feel like a glorified admin assistant because the main duties will be lead tours, answer phones, and assist with sales.

 The Shadow wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Remember this poll a while back, in the aftermath of the specialist games going away? Well, now we have our answer: the 58 people who voted for White Dwarf are the winners!

What? White Dwarf hasn't been dropped, it's been changed. That's like saying Tyranids just got dropped this month.

The new WD and Warhammer Visions (need an abbrev. for this) was a smart move on GW's part. A cash-grab, yes, but a smart move. There is still a monthly magazine, which people will still buy, and will bring GW in arguably more money, thanks to its increased price tag. And those people who think it's too expensive? They'll be buying the weekly WD, at least once a month, if not every day. The brilliant thing, from a sales point of view, of cheaper items, such as WD Weekly, is that people, when it comes to buy them think "oh, it's only £2.50". £2.50 is spare change. Most people aren't too bothered about parting with coins, but many are bothered about parting with notes, as you had to do for the old WD. A lot of people will fritter away their spare change as they pop into a GW store every week. This means there'll be many people paying £5-10 a month anyway, in addition to those paying an extra £7.50 for WV.

Yes, we can complain here, on our forum, tucked away in a small, dark corner of the GW hobby, that WD and WV are the worst magazines ever. Maybe they are. But. People. Will. Still. Buy. Them.

Everything you say there seems to be exactly what GW HQ is thinking with this, but it is wrong.

People don't buy WD, at least not in any significant numbers or else they wouldn't be rebooting it for the second time in under two years.

People who think it's too expensive aren't the issue, the problem is people not seeing any value to it because of lack of content. No one want's to collect a magazine that is entirely the same as it is now but with less hobby articles and more pictures of models, not will the be buying a dedicated advertisement for the weeks releases even if it does have some hobby related stuff (for that weeks release only) in it.


GW will not up sales with this, they think they can get people to pay for the same crap twice but if people aren't buying it now then I can't understand why they think they can sell more of less.

If they really want to save the company they need to get rid of Kirby. One bad decision after another has lead them to their current state.

Cutting front line staff at this stage is like cutting your throat.

It never ends well.

 Necro wrote:
If they really want to save the company they need to get rid of Kirby. One bad decision after another has lead them to their current state.

Cutting front line staff at this stage is like cutting your throat.

It never ends well.

QFT

Yep nothing in this world is static, its either growing or dying.

GW is not a growing company as I have said in the past. Now there share price is falling it is the time to spend to recover.
There are way better dividend companies to invest in than them.

Sadly I don't think they will :(

 n0t_u wrote:
"Games" day definitely, why even waste money on some event that could be used as advertising. I mean they won't even buy tickets to be advertised to so why bother.

I stopped buying white dwarf when I realised I was paying money to be advertised to.

 frozenwastes wrote:
"Do you have what it takes to manage the Warhammer World Studio and lead a team to produce truly inspirational world class displays of Games Workshop miniatures that hobbyists the world over will travel and pay to see?"

LOL.

They want people to pay to look at displays. They really think they can turn it into a tourist destination that people will pay to take a tour of? That's like Gamesdays without any games going on. Oh.. wait...

.

In the UK you are often charged for simply walking into a pub, especially in city centres at night. I don't think being asked to pay to look at something like this is that unreasonable. Though if they charge too much then it will backfire and won't raise any money at all.

And I do know people from Australia who pretty much pissed themselves with excitement when the opportunity to come to Warhammer World came up. So yes, it is already a destination, admittedly for people who collect 40k which isn't perhaps as large as other demographics

They wouldn't charge to use the gaming hall though. Those tables would just be lying around if they weren't being played with, and it keeps the bar busy, which I assume *does* make a bit of money. It better do with what they charge anyway

Since White Dwarf hasn't been cut - unless you count a new weekly magazine as being "cut", in which case a supplement also counts as cutting the main codex - I think that'll go first, since no one important will put the effort into making White Dwarf half-good. After that The Hobbit and some of the Fantasy armies will go, Fantasy seems to be in freefall at the moment.

xruslanx wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
"Do you have what it takes to manage the Warhammer World Studio and lead a team to produce truly inspirational world class displays of Games Workshop miniatures that hobbyists the world over will travel and pay to see?"

LOL.

They want people to pay to look at displays. They really think they can turn it into a tourist destination that people will pay to take a tour of? That's like Gamesdays without any games going on. Oh.. wait...

.

In the UK you are often charged for simply walking into a pub, especially in city centres at night

That's not even remotely true.

 Baragash wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
"Do you have what it takes to manage the Warhammer World Studio and lead a team to produce truly inspirational world class displays of Games Workshop miniatures that hobbyists the world over will travel and pay to see?"

LOL.

They want people to pay to look at displays. They really think they can turn it into a tourist destination that people will pay to take a tour of? That's like Gamesdays without any games going on. Oh.. wait...

.

In the UK you are often charged for simply walking into a pub, especially in city centres at night

That's not even remotely true.

Yes it is. It is not universally true, but popular city centre bars very often charge for entry. Clubs almost invariably do, and it's still being charged £5 simply to get into the damn place.

 Baragash wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
"Do you have what it takes to manage the Warhammer World Studio and lead a team to produce truly inspirational world class displays of Games Workshop miniatures that hobbyists the world over will travel and pay to see?"

LOL.

They want people to pay to look at displays. They really think they can turn it into a tourist destination that people will pay to take a tour of? That's like Gamesdays without any games going on. Oh.. wait...

.

In the UK you are often charged for simply walking into a pub, especially in city centres at night

That's not even remotely true.

Looks like I have xruslanx on ignore. And yep, clubs the world over do have a cover charge. Though I highly doubt that's the case with pubs unless there's a live performance or something going on.

And people do go to strange museums for all sorts of stuff. I'm not convinced though, that this move towards not gaming as the feature of GW's destination stores or events like gamesday, will actually work for them the same way a dance club can charge cover or a museum can. I while back I went to a factory tour of a apple cider plant and the feature of the tour was the actual drinking of huge amounts of apple cider for very little money. Going to GW for a tour or to a gamesday and spending the time looking at display cases is like going to an apple cider plant and looking at the cider rather than drinking it.

xruslanx wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
"Do you have what it takes to manage the Warhammer World Studio and lead a team to produce truly inspirational world class displays of Games Workshop miniatures that hobbyists the world over will travel and pay to see?"

LOL.

They want people to pay to look at displays. They really think they can turn it into a tourist destination that people will pay to take a tour of? That's like Gamesdays without any games going on. Oh.. wait...

.

In the UK you are often charged for simply walking into a pub, especially in city centres at night

That's not even remotely true.

Yes it is. It is not universally true, but popular city centre bars very often charge for entry. Clubs almost invariably do, and it's still being charged £5 simply to get into the damn place.

This is a good start, you've already revised it from "pubs" to "bars", which is still not true. Doubled-down by adding "popular" which is still not true. Then made a last ditch switch to "clubs" (you could have also gone with "strip clubs" and maybe "members clubs"), which ofc is pretty much universally true but by now your point is looking about as strong as GW's half-year performance.

Indeed. Back when the museum was a museum (of sorts) with a few of the golden demon displays it was worth a look and possibly a few quid to keep it running and maintained. The miniatures 'hall' (not that big) is not worth paying for (but is worth a look of you're there, not necessarily a journey to see), nor is the gaming hall.

The souvenirs on sale at bug and are firmly in the tourist gouge price bracket, rather than the factory outlet you might expect.

Lego sets at legoland have more of a markdown.

xruslanx wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
"Do you have what it takes to manage the Warhammer World Studio and lead a team to produce truly inspirational world class displays of Games Workshop miniatures that hobbyists the world over will travel and pay to see?"

LOL.

They want people to pay to look at displays. They really think they can turn it into a tourist destination that people will pay to take a tour of? That's like Gamesdays without any games going on. Oh.. wait...

.

In the UK you are often charged for simply walking into a pub, especially in city centres at night

That's not even remotely true.

Yes it is. It is not universally true, but popular city centre bars very often charge for entry. Clubs almost invariably do, and it's still being charged £5 simply to get into the damn place.

I live in London and I've never been charged to enter a bar or pub. Clubs tend to charge but that's different entirely to what you first said. There's white knighting and then there's outright dishonesty.

 Baragash wrote:
but now your point is looking about as strong as GW's half-year performance.

I have to start using this phrase

 Baragash wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
In the UK you are often charged for simply walking into a pub, especially in city centres at night

That's not even remotely true.

I think he's confusing "pubs" with "clubs"... but then again he is from an alternate reality, so who knows...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
In the UK you are often charged for simply walking into a pub, especially in city centres at night

That's not even remotely true.

I think he's confusing "pubs" with "clubs"... but then again he is from an alternate reality, so who knows...

In fairness, in this, he's correct.

There are many hybrid pubs (a local Wetherspoons chain pub springs to mind) who open late and have a dance floor and music at weekends but operate as a normal pub the rest of the week. It isn't unusual for these places to charge an entry fee. I wouldn't say often but it certainly isn't all that unusual either.

I'd imagine it isn't all that common in London due to the sheer volume of competition, but in a reasonable sized market town, where you have maybe 4 or 5 viable pubs, and perhaps one or two that aren't a bit seedy, it is perhaps easier and more common practice.

It was a pretty successful derailment though. This pub talk.

The job postings on GW's site have been so informative as to what's really going on with the company. First you have the customer experience position where someone will spend two years investigating the experience of GW's customers. Not with the product or the games themselves, but with buying the wonderful miniatures GW sells . Now they're looking for people to run a room of display cases as if it's some sort of precious museum. It's hilariously awesome.

 azreal13 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
In the UK you are often charged for simply walking into a pub, especially in city centres at night

That's not even remotely true.

I think he's confusing "pubs" with "clubs"... but then again he is from an alternate reality, so who knows...

In fairness, in this, he's correct.

There are many hybrid pubs (a local Wetherspoons chain pub springs to mind) who open late and have a dance floor and music at weekends but operate as a normal pub the rest of the week. It isn't unusual for these places to charge an entry fee. I wouldn't say often but it certainly isn't all that unusual either.

I'd imagine it isn't all that common in London due to the sheer volume of competition, but in a reasonable sized market town, where you have maybe 4 or 5 viable pubs, and perhaps one or two that aren't a bit seedy, it is perhaps easier and more common practice.

Maybe, but my local Weatherspoons has never charged for entry. The only thing they do is request ID after 9PM. I know some bars that do this too, but i have never been charged for entry into a pub/bar.

I voted for the hobbit, because it would definitely go if they are able to break any contracts they might have. Gamesday is the most likely culprit though - it just doesn't add anything to the hobby.

I highly doubt they will scrap forgeworld with the HH in full swing. If FW was ever cut, I'd probably be done with GW for good though.

You forgot to put "prices" in the options.

One post on the 'boxed set" threads suggests there are reports from a rep commenting they'd pushed prices too far and will roll them back.

Sorry to distract from the doom and gloom. Now carry on.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
You forgot to put "prices" in the options.

One post on the 'boxed set" threads suggests there are reports from a rep commenting they'd pushed prices too far and will roll them back.

Sorry to distract from the doom and gloom. Now carry on.

I'll believe it when I see it. A fat price reduction would get me to re-evaluate looking at other games given that 40k is the most popular game locally.

WayneTheGame wrote:

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
You forgot to put "prices" in the options.

One post on the 'boxed set" threads suggests there are reports from a rep commenting they'd pushed prices too far and will roll them back.

Sorry to distract from the doom and gloom. Now carry on.

I'll believe it when I see it. A fat price reduction would get me to re-evaluate looking at other games given that 40k is the most popular game locally.

Same here, GW prices are ever rising, under the mistaken belief that this will increase there profits.

I've never seen a single pub of bar in Scotland charge for entry. If they did, they'd be out of business instantly. Clubs on the other hand....

I'm missing a "None of the above: GW will prevail" option.

 Peregrine wrote:


Warhammer World: the same analysis is still true here. Having an open HQ with tons of gaming space and awesome events is a nice prestige thing, but it can't possibly be a net profit for GW and only a tiny minority of their customers will ever go there. Even WotC couldn't keep their gaming HQ profitable and had to close it, and I doubt GW is doing any better. Closing Warhammer World (and moving GW into a more modest office space) cuts expenses without a noticeable impact for most of their customers, so it's win/win.
.

Why would you want to get rid of that? Doesn't it have like all these retro models? Which is very interesting.

A lot of new GW products are like Hasbro. Shiny, humorless, art direction run by marketing and appeal to 14 year old boys. While they are doing it they are slowly shrinking their product line. If they get rid of the museum then they can be an even more cold calculating profit machine. After that they can just replace all factions with space marines. Anyway I doubt a small complex like HQ is going to put a very big dent in the profit margin of such a huge company lol.

If GW wants to get out of the downward spiral it needs to stop screwing their customers over.

Kill finecast. More plastic + metal for obscure things.

Stop charging ridiculous prices like the box of 5 dire avengers for 41 aud when you used to get 10. Or the sisters of battle squad (10) for 79 dollars US or 135 AUD. The price of metal hasn't gone up that much....

Stop charging for all the paint guides and articles when many use to be free.

The competition looks after their customers and that's why GW is going to lose in the end if it is not careful...

A WHFB army or two will vanish (hopefully) to white dwarf or (more likely) get eaten by something and GW will pretend they never knew such things existed.

Once you can buy forgeworld instore there won't be any 'need' for games day

ahzek wrote:
Once you can buy forgeworld instore there won't be any 'need' for games day

Oh, I do hope Forge World can be sold in store. Well, commonly any way.

I do recall going to an independent store where he had some FW stuff for sale. That was like 10 years ago, in a small shop in the middle of the city.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

ahzek wrote:
Once you can buy forgeworld instore there won't be any 'need' for games day

Oh, I do hope Forge World can be sold in store. Well, commonly any way.

I do recall going to an independent store where he had some FW stuff for sale. That was like 10 years ago, in a small shop in the middle of the city.

Yeah I always get a small thrill when I see an independent with some forgeworld kits, often cheaper too as it's trade in

LotR/Hobbit won't be cut until at least a year after the third Hobbit movie is done.

 SorataZ wrote:
I'm missing a "None of the above: GW will prevail" option.

That is because the OP is neither crazy nor stupid....

The Auld Grump

 SorataZ wrote:
I'm missing a "None of the above: GW will prevail" option.

Go go gadget terrible photo manipulation in MS paint!




In all seriousness, my guess is Games Day, especially if they do merge the Forge World site with the GW site.

Given how GW behaves and the fact that they'll stick the course instead of changing their strategy, this is what they'll cut in order (as they'll still need to cut further each year to maintain the allusion of profits to shareholders):

1.) "Games" Day
2.) Warhammer World
3.) Retail Stores
4.) White Dwarf(s) 2.0
5.) Hobbit
6.) WHFB army
7.) 40k army
9.) WHFB as a whole
10.) Black Library
11.) Forge World
12.) 40k as a whole
13.) Lawyers

Above all else GW will keep the lawyers. Even if they gave up Space Marines, there'd still be lawyers in Nottingham.

MadMarkMagee wrote:
Why would you want to get rid of that?

It's not about what we want, it's about what we expect GW to do. And Warhammer World is probably being run at a loss so that GW can have the prestige of being the only miniatures company with such an awesome HQ. But when it's time to start cutting costs it would be easy for GW's management to look purely at the profit/loss numbers and decide that Warhammer World is not worth keeping. Obviously this would be bad for us as customers (or at least for the customers who live close enough to ever go there), but GW is clearly not putting the interests of their customers first.

 Peregrine wrote:
And Warhammer World is probably being run at a loss

What's the basis for this?

 Baragash wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
And Warhammer World is probably being run at a loss

What's the basis for this?

Two things:

1) It costs money to run Warhammer World, but doesn't cost money to visit and play there. They do charge entry fees for organized events, but we know from third-party TOs that a big event is happy to break even and most TOs do it because they love the game, not because it makes lots of money. The only potential profit is the vague idea that more people will buy GW games in general because the existence of an awesome gaming HQ makes the game more appealing.

2) WOTC tried to run a similar gaming center, and eventually closed it because they were losing too much money. Yes, there are probably differences in things like rent in downtown Seattle vs. GW's middle of nowhere office building, but the fact that WOTC gave up entirely suggests that it's not a very profitable business concept.

So, obviously we will never know for sure, but it's a pretty reasonable guess that Warhammer World is run at a loss.

The Hobbit/ LOTR games really have not been interesting to anyone i met, looks boring, is boring, and to be honest i think thats the next step to the end of the game. I can't seem to find any of the Warhammer RPGs like necromunda and such for sale on the sight

Warhammer world is a small section on the large HQ campus, which I'm fairly certain GW own outright. The majority of the campus is not open to the public.

The pub (Bugmans) serves the staff as well as the general public. It can get pretty busy, especially when events are on, and it's usually got a few people in it. I see quieter pubs in the city centre. I doubt it runs at a loss.

The on-site store is reasonably busy too - I use it (as do many others locally) because the parking is free and it's not in the city centre (making it easier to get to). I doubt it runs at a loss.

The gaming hall is large though - presumably it costs a fair amount to heat and maintain. Many of the tables are recycled for Games Days / shows. Hosting of events (such as the FW open day / tournaments) should cover its costs.

I don't understand how a profitable company can be viewed as nearly dead with "the vultures circling". The share price went down because there was no dividend announced and, therefore, no incentive to hang onto shares. In current investment climate of "where is my next revenue comming from?" investors all yelled "sell, sell, sell". This is their common knee-jerk reaction. It's how good investors can build a good portfolio of shares on the cheap. (I'm not suggesting GW is a good investment).

People will say that no dividends mean the company is failing but there are many reasons not to announce a dividend. Reinvestment of funds is one and restructure is another. Perhaps all the redundancies from the move to one-man stores is another. It's impossible to say unless you are on the board at GW.

Apolgies to all the people who hate GW but it's going nowhere. It will have to perform some soul searching and right the wrongs if profits decrease further but they are still making profits and look to continue to do so. Their 70% gross margin will continue to produce a sizeable profit regardless of how far revenues fall.

I've been out of gaming for around 10 years and I am just now getting back into it alittle thanks to Warzone and Infinity. I used to run a space marine army and a steel legion guard army. I had a griffon and an exterminator tank that i used all the time. I stopped playing 40K when GW came out with 4th edition came out and suddenly those two tanks ceased to exist. It was getting expensive then having to buy a new rule book every two to three years. On top of that prices were rising then, and I don't see how anyone can afford to build an army with their current prices. GW has lost their freaking minds. The prices have more than tripled, yet the quality hasn't improved at all. Yet look at what Prodos and Corvis Belli is putting out for a fraction of the price. I love the novels and still read them. I don't know what the hell GW is thinking. They are screwing the very people who pay their bills. All of the local shops carry a very minimal amount of their stuff, especially compared to what used to be carried back in the day. I loved alot of the smaller games such as Necromunda, Battlefleet Gothic, Gorkamorka, and Blood Bowl. Its a shame if they go away, but they did it to themselves if they do. They need to realise that they are not the only game in town, literally.

Silver_skates wrote:

Their 70% gross margin will continue to produce a sizeable profit regardless of how far revenues fall.

Funny how profits fell even more than revenue then... (profits fell 38% while revenue "only" fell 12%)

 Peregrine wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
And Warhammer World is probably being run at a loss

What's the basis for this?

Two things:

1) It costs money to run Warhammer World, but doesn't cost money to visit and play there. They do charge entry fees for organized events, but we know from third-party TOs that a big event is happy to break even and most TOs do it because they love the game, not because it makes lots of money. The only potential profit is the vague idea that more people will buy GW games in general because the existence of an awesome gaming HQ makes the game more appealing.

2) WOTC tried to run a similar gaming center, and eventually closed it because they were losing too much money. Yes, there are probably differences in things like rent in downtown Seattle vs. GW's middle of nowhere office building, but the fact that WOTC gave up entirely suggests that it's not a very profitable business concept.

So, obviously we will never know for sure, but it's a pretty reasonable guess that Warhammer World is run at a loss.

Mostly this:

winterdyne wrote:
Warhammer world is a small section on the large HQ campus, which I'm fairly certain GW own outright. The majority of the campus is not open to the public.

The pub (Bugmans) serves the staff as well as the general public. It can get pretty busy, especially when events are on, and it's usually got a few people in it. I see quieter pubs in the city centre. I doubt it runs at a loss.

The on-site store is reasonably busy too - I use it (as do many others locally) because the parking is free and it's not in the city centre (making it easier to get to). I doubt it runs at a loss.

The gaming hall is large though - presumably it costs a fair amount to heat and maintain. Many of the tables are recycled for Games Days / shows. Hosting of events (such as the FW open day / tournaments) should cover its costs.

I find it unlikely WHW runs at a loss.

Games Workshop is still a profitable company. I think the very next thing that we will see cut is sales to distributors and independent stores.

PhantomViper wrote:

Silver_skates wrote:

Their 70% gross margin will continue to produce a sizeable profit regardless of how far revenues fall.

Funny how profits fell even more than revenue then... (profits fell 38% while revenue "only" fell 12%)

Overheads will always be more difficult to reduce (& conversely increase). This is why GW are cutting their staff costs with the one man store. You should see overheads reduced in the next six months meaning that bottom line profits will follow the relationship of revenue whether that is up or down.

 Phobos wrote:
Games Workshop is still a profitable company. I think the very next thing that we will see cut is sales to distributors and independent stores.

I don't know about that, it would all but totally end them in the US.

Wishful thinking here, but LotR/Hobbit goes next. God, please let it go next.

 RatBot wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
Games Workshop is still a profitable company. I think the very next thing that we will see cut is sales to distributors and independent stores.

I don't know about that, it would all but totally end them in the US.

You know, at one point I would have agreed with you. But today, in 2014 I don't think that's the case anymore. 10 years ago I recall several stores in my area that were just absolutely loaded with Games Workshop product. Tables places to play all sorts of stuff. Today there is a Games Workshop store here, and only one other store has more than just a minimal amount of product. I would not be surprised if they could just stop selling games Workshop and not lose any money or customers. People who want to play games Workshop games will simply go to the GW store.

And frankly I think this has been the long term goal all along starting back in 2003 when they banned online sales without a storefront.

I'm not sure what will be cut, but whatever it is, you can bet it will be Great News!

Silver_skates wrote:
I don't understand how a profitable company can be viewed as nearly dead with "the vultures circling". The share price went down because there was no dividend announced and, therefore, no incentive to hang onto shares.

That's one explanation. The other explanation is that share price went down because GW's revenue and profits were down significantly at a time (Christmas shopping season) that should be great for a toy company. And, worse, that decrease in revenue seems to confirm the suspicion that GW's sales volume and market share are declining, growth and long-term planning are nonexistent, and profits are likely to continue to decline.

It will have to perform some soul searching and right the wrongs if profits decrease further but they are still making profits and look to continue to do so.

Making profits is a pretty low standard for success. If I was a potential investor I'd be pretty disappointed if GW settled for making minimal profits when they could be making a lot more money if not for their own bad decisions.

 Phobos wrote:
You know, at one point I would have agreed with you. But today, in 2014 I don't think that's the case anymore. 10 years ago I recall several stores in my area that were just absolutely loaded with Games Workshop product. Tables places to play all sorts of stuff. Today there is a Games Workshop store here, and only one other store has more than just a minimal amount of product. I would not be surprised if they could just stop selling games Workshop and not lose any money or customers. People who want to play games Workshop games will simply go to the GW store.

But the real question here is how many people are still playing GW games. GW may have put a higher percentage of sales of their products into their own retail stores, but what's the total pool of GW sales that they're drawing from?

And frankly I think this has been the long term goal all along starting back in 2003 when they banned online sales without a storefront.

I don't think that was really the reason. Banning online sales makes sense because it protects independent stores from being undercut by online-only stores that can sell at a discount that no physical independent store can afford.

winterdyne wrote:
Warhammer world is a small section on the large HQ campus, which I'm fairly certain GW own outright. The majority of the campus is not open to the public.

But it still takes up space. Closing it would allow GW to lease that space to some other company. So that's lost revenue being thrown away for the sake of operating a gaming space.

The on-site store is reasonably busy too - I use it (as do many others locally) because the parking is free and it's not in the city centre (making it easier to get to). I doubt it runs at a loss.

I'm sure it does make quite a few sales, but that's not what matters. The important question is whether Warhammer World generates new sales that GW wouldn't otherwise get. They aren't making a net profit on those sales if it's just stuff you would buy at your local GW store and the only change is which cash register you pay at.

Hosting of events (such as the FW open day / tournaments) should cover its costs.

Probably not. Remember, we've seen comments from third-party TOs that big events don't make much money and it's a (financially) successful event if you don't lose any money. So GW's own events may or may not be run at a loss, but it's unlikely that they occasional tournament is making enough profit to cover the year-round expenses of having the space at all.

And, again, remember that WOTC already tried this kind of gaming center and abandoned it because it wasn't profitable. I'm very skeptical of the claim that GW has figured out how to make it a profitable business instead of a marketing effort that GW pays to run.

 Phobos wrote:
People who want to play games Workshop games will simply go to the GW store.

.

Yeah, that's not going to work out so well in my hometown where there is enough interest in wargaming that they hold an independent GT every year, but there isn't a GW store in the country within 100 miles. There's a couple in Canada,one 85 and the other 98 miles away, but who the Christ is going to drive almost 100 miles to another country to pay super-inflated prices just to buy GW crap? Also if GW wants to have their own stores be the only place you can buy their stuff, then they probably ought to actually open enough to service all markets, have them open normal(ish) hours, and ensure there's space to play, IE, the opposite of what they're doing.

Reading the tea leaves here... I honestly think GW will go bankrupt in 24 - 36 months. My reasons for this are pretty simple, their product has increased in price too much over the last few years and they have lost too many independent retailers of their products. A shift in consumer demand is all it will take to land the company in receivership.

While they may have enjoyed price elasticity with the hardcore gamers, there's a younger set that depends on funding from parents to afford their product. A common question people ask in retail stores is how much all this stuff costs in the end. If you consider the fact it runs about $1,200 to have a decent army, after you buy the books, the paints, the models, the carrying cases, etc... that's a lot for most people these days for a luxury toy. Word does get around about the costs.

The other thing is channel sales. They have painted themselves into a corner with the reductions in independent stockists, out of the 7 hobby stores in my area that carried GW products 2 years ago, only 1 of them still does. They are actively promoting other games and making sales.

Anyways, in terms of real business, my forecast is for a decline in sales that leads to a reduction of retail stores, followed by a more crippling decline in overall demand for product. Many of the places that helped build the GW brand are making money on other products, and I don't see them switching back. The issues with sales were personal and polarizing for many store owners, who are not the people you want working against you.

Given how GW has been treating independents here in Canada which do move a fair amount of their product (largely due to matching US prices), I can believe GW will try and marginalize independents. As it stands, they quite often fail to send their monthly product deliveries, and they're often below what was ordered. The new release format will likely mean independents won't get their product until the end of the cycle, in an attempt to drive customers to the one GW store in a province of 7 million, or online.

Given their behaviour towards independents, especially successful ones, they seem to view sales through independents almot as a loss; anything that isn't getting them 100% markup is to be avoided, and they hold the misguided assumption people will buy just as much from them if forced to pay full retail.

My local is in West London and when it opened in spring 2013 it had hundreds of kids (and real gamers) packed in everyday, it was hard to even get in on a a saturday . By Christimas the sales had started to fall and they were already getting in new stuff (which wasn't fair due to just children naturaly losing intrest) he has just been replaced again and theres no signs of sales picking up, its the same 5 people again and again. Meanwile GW has opened up 2 more shops within 5 miles (one man stores). Seeing this i think to myself why don't the company just consontrate on 1 shop rather than keep opening little ones and letting them die along with the community? An old member came in recently and i asked why he had not been in of which he replied "opened a new one near my house" which was only 2 miles to the east...so i see all these threads about GW's demise and i think if there close to going bankrupt then why do they continue to open stores and keep failing ones running? Plus all local shops play WFB and LoTR so i doubt there really losing HUGE profits, just not as big as 40k (although on the world level i belive they are).

I think GW will survive, its too much of a big IP to go and the shops at worst case would be brought by another company, before that i think they can either go two ways.

1:The good way...they stop raising prices for the time being, start heavier advertising, start designing better models, better PR and just let people get back into the game again like normal.

2: The more likely option, Kirby sounds like a moron venture capitalist who does not care about the soul of the company, he will cut all the wrong and loved parts of the comany...cutting too far and then losing the fanbase for good untill GW get brought out and the brand is taken over then wound down, then relaunched in a few years wherre then half the gaming population will have too buy new models. Either way i don't see us losing our game, our models (apart from maybe LoTR) anytime soon. But i do think Kirby is bound to make mistakes.

Having watched the review, I'd like to change my vote from Games Day to White Dwarf 2.0.

i voted Games Day. The last GD i went to (2009) was horrible. a couple blisters of SG stuff in white boxes and no room for casual play.

Apparently GD these days is just standing in a line to buy GW products you could get online/in a store anyway.

At this point... I think that Warhammer Visions is going to beat Games Day to the gallows.

I knew only four people that still had White Dwarf subscriptions - and every one of them dropped their subscriptions when they saw what their subscriptions had been turned to....

Let's see... we have folks that have subscribed to a gaming magazine titled White Dwarf.

We are now making two magazines - one is about gaming and titled White Dwarf.

The other isn't a gaming magazine, and isn't titled White Dwarf.

Now, which one do you think that the remaining subscription time should go towards?

The Auld Grump, friends, gamers, countrymen....
I come not to praise Warhammer Visions but to bury him...
Which is Great News, because he has bloated and begun to stink....

I would say Games Day. I do not think that GW has the humility to put down something they just released. It would look like they had made a poor decision and that would compromise their infallibility.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Given how GW has been treating independents here in Canada which do move a fair amount of their product (largely due to matching US prices), I can believe GW will try and marginalize independents. As it stands, they quite often fail to send their monthly product deliveries, and they're often below what was ordered. The new release format will likely mean independents won't get their product until the end of the cycle, in an attempt to drive customers to the one GW store in a province of 7 million, or online.

Given their behaviour towards independents, especially successful ones, they seem to view sales through independents almot as a loss; anything that isn't getting them 100% markup is to be avoided, and they hold the misguided assumption people will buy just as much from them if forced to pay full retail.

You're in Quebec? We should meet up for a game!

I think the next thing to be cut will be free store entry. Just imagine the amount of $$$ GW is losing when they let people walk into their stores and view their works of art for free. In future, all GW stores will charge an entry fee.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I think the next thing to be cut will be free store entry. Just imagine the amount of $$$ GW is losing when they let people walk into their stores and view their works of art for free. In future, all GW stores will charge an entry fee.

Apply to GW that's a golden Idea!

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I think the next thing to be cut will be free store entry. Just imagine the amount of $$$ GW is losing when they let people walk into their stores and view their works of art for free. In future, all GW stores will charge an entry fee.

Apply to GW that's a golden Idea!

Nar, gettin' in is free....

Gettin' out again, that's gonna cost ya, mate.....

But ter keep ya entertained in the meanwhiles, 'ere's a bloke in a red shirt to follow you around, just to... encourage a due expenditure of the ready, eh?

And Ned 'ere? 'E thinks that 'e can sing....

Sadly for you, me pigeon, 'e's wrong....

The Auld Grump