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 Howard A Treesong wrote:
They'll introduce no-man stores. There will only be Space Marines for sale and everything else will be direct only with a computer and a card machine on the wall.

Thanks to my business acumen I have already gone beyond that stage in my planning.

The new GW will work like this:

You log on to a website, and spend money from credit card, debit card, or from your bank account. For ultimate convenience you can set up a direct debit.

You receive an automated email acknowledging your payment.

You go about your normal life. No messing around, no fuss and bother about waiting for the post man to deliver your goods.

Do people even go to games day anymore? I remember reading that blog where only 37 people showed up in Germany.

I don't understand what could possibly be of interest to any gamer at games day.

I wonder when they will completely eliminate stores and start implementing vending machine kiosks to sell their product?

Clearly staff and company interaction with customers is overrated and should be completely curbed as it interferes with GW's vision of hobby (which buying stuff directly from GW)

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
They'll introduce no-man stores. There will only be Space Marines for sale and everything else will be direct only with a computer and a card machine on the wall.

Thanks to my business acumen I have already gone beyond that stage in my planning.

The new GW will work like this:

You log on to a website, and spend money from credit card, debit card, or from your bank account. For ultimate convenience you can set up a direct debit.

You receive an automated email acknowledging your payment.

You go about your normal life. No messing around, no fuss and bother about waiting for the post man to deliver your goods.

Defiance games beat you to it with their Kickstarter. And JRAB. And many others.

I voted for the White Dwarf. Tha crap keeps getting roled out, but it makes little sales. And with the consistant reduction of actual content, it is becoming little more than a bad, tacky advertising magazine/catalogue.
WHFB and 40K are here to stay-their iconic games.

 Rayvon wrote:
Well, I think it will be business as usual, they are a long way from bankruptcy and the end was nigh ten years ago, according to some, nothing new to see here.

Ah, the usual response. The End isn't nigh but its a lot closer now than it ever has been.

In terms of what will be first on the block then Games Day seems like an obvious choice. GW clearly has little interest in it anymore and it is an easy thing to cut.

Its difficult to tell what will be cut after that althoguh combined army books wouldn't surpise me and its actually a good idea from a balance perspective.

 Palindrome wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:
Well, I think it will be business as usual, they are a long way from bankruptcy and the end was nigh ten years ago, according to some, nothing new to see here.

Ah, the usual response. The End isn't nigh but its a lot closer now than it ever has been.

In terms of what will be first on the block then Games Day seems like an obvious choice. GW clearly has little interest in it anymore and it is an easy thing to cut.

Its difficult to tell what will be cut after that althoguh combined army books wouldn't surpise me and its actually a good idea from a balance perspective.

If my google-fu and quoting skills were better, I could find "the end is nigh" predictions every year for the last 15 years or so, I could also find "maybe not tomorrow, but soon" as well. GW still has a lot of expense (assets, stores) that they could cut, should they choose to. They're biggest challenge is going to be how quickly they will respond to this (if they even do). There are always ups and downs during a year, considering this doesn't include christmas, they might have made up a lot of ground.

That being said, they're in trouble because they're reached their inelastic price point - just look at all of the "limited ed" stuff they're still trying to flog months later. People aren't spending that much, and the wallets are finally being heard.

I'll vote for White Dwarf (again). They just can't seem to get it right. FW as we know it will be a close second, only because I don't trust GW not to make it worse price-wise, somehow.

Voted Games Day, although reading the accounts of the event this year really it has already happened.

What a shame.

 Cruentus wrote:

If my google-fu and quoting skills were better, I could find "the end is nigh" predictions every year for the last 15 years or so,

So? Its not hard to find people saying anything on the internet.

What you need to consider is that many of the rational people who have been saying that GW is in trouble (who rarely if ever say that the end is nigh by the way) have taken their stance due to GW's past financial statements seasoned by their reaction to the frankly stupid business decisions that GW is prone to making. The end is still not nigh although with their plummetting share price its not beyond the realms of possiblity that there may well be new management at GW towers sooner rather than later.

I am actually quite suprised that this mid year is so bad as last years report showed signs of stabalising their declining revenues.

GW won't cut highstreet retail stores in the UK ever - they might close a few here and there but they won't shut down that operation. Though considering the insane costs of running a shop on the highstreet it likely costs them a fortune each year


Those same high costs are the reason we've only got independents in the biggest of towns; if you want a shop in a half decent spot of the town the rates etc... are very high. It's a UK wide problem that small shops are very hard to open and keep viable and I've seen a lot of smaller stores either struggling or changing owners a fair bit.

I'd expect if the GW stores in the UK diminished significantly you'd not only see GW taking big losses, but also see the whole gaming scene reduce.


Like it or not GW haters GW does bring in a LOT of new blood into the wargaming world. If we lost them it would be a huge blow to the industry as a whole - yes it would leave a big gap but chances are it would take a fair while to fill and likely no one would (heck GW are the only company big enough to have their own stores - even PP don't have any of their own).



GW might have taken less profit but they still took profit; they've also a very powerful IP and a lot of resources they could tap into to provide additional income sources if they needed to. Heck they could sell out the IP to Hollywood - yes it would likely mean that hte background stories would be utterly destroyed in the films; but it would likely bring in a big chunk of cash.

Heck it might almost be worth doing just to get a huge increase in market exposure (although I think after the LotR incident GW would be more prepared to lose a lot of those new customers in the short term.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
They'll introduce no-man stores. There will only be Space Marines for sale and everything else will be direct only with a computer and a card machine on the wall.

Or they could just try to do GW Vending Machines for most product, although spray paint might be an issue due to sales laws in several areas.

 Overread wrote:
GW won't cut highstreet retail stores in the UK ever - they might close a few here and there but they won't shut down that operation. Though considering the insane costs of running a shop on the highstreet it likely costs them a fortune each year


Those same high costs are the reason we've only got independents in the biggest of towns; if you want a shop in a half decent spot of the town the rates etc... are very high. It's a UK wide problem that small shops are very hard to open and keep viable and I've seen a lot of smaller stores either struggling or changing owners a fair bit.

I'd expect if the GW stores in the UK diminished significantly you'd not only see GW taking big losses, but also see the whole gaming scene reduce.


Like it or not GW haters GW does bring in a LOT of new blood into the wargaming world. If we lost them it would be a huge blow to the industry as a whole - yes it would leave a big gap but chances are it would take a fair while to fill and likely no one would (heck GW are the only company big enough to have their own stores - even PP don't have any of their own).



GW might have taken less profit but they still took profit; they've also a very powerful IP and a lot of resources they could tap into to provide additional income sources if they needed to. Heck they could sell out the IP to Hollywood - yes it would likely mean that hte background stories would be utterly destroyed in the films; but it would likely bring in a big chunk of cash.

Heck it might almost be worth doing just to get a huge increase in market exposure (although I think after the LotR incident GW would be more prepared to lose a lot of those new customers in the short term.

I just have to say, I disagree strongly with your assements of GW bringing gamers into this hobby. I can fully stand by the average group of new comers from what I have seen is 1 out of 5 interested gamers of all ages get pulled into the hobby through GW. The other 4 see the prices, the poor game rules and the absurd company practices if they stay around for a whyll and walk away and go back to video gaming and or other games like board games and or card games ( nothing wrong with either of those three mind you ). Many of my old time friends do not have any interest in wargaming thinking it is all like GW and rather play other types of games. I myself found GW lacking and way too over priced and if I was not introduced into 15mm sci fi as well as other wargames I would not be playing wargaming and setting up my own company right now.

So I would argue the little good GW does is countered by a lot of people who take a look and fairly quickly lose interest in what they can only see of the whole hobby through GW, leaving a bad taste in their mouth they go off and do other things, and only a few get drawn into the hobby through GW or those with the net like us , find out about other companies and learn what the hobby really is and should be about .

 Peregrine wrote:
LotR/Hobbit: it's funny how nothing has changed here. The second movie was another disappointment, the game still isn't selling, and any profits are probably going straight into license fees. And now new releases are pretty limited, so it looks like even GW can't pretend to be interested in the game. Really, the only reason to keep the game is if the license included a commitment to keep it in production for a certain amount of time.

Yeah. All the specialist games got rounded up and shot, this is the last survivor.

I am amazed that people think GW will go bankrupt. The IP GW owns is simply too valuable on the secondary market to let this happen.

GW could return to profitability solely on the backs of the IP it owns, with careful shopping and licensing agreements. I imagine if sales continue to decline you will see exactly this.

Authorizing Fantasy Flight to create specialist games with miniatures could be a big first step. Shopping out 40k and Fantasy to a AAA video game publisher and closing all the shovelware BS. Working with some external publisher on a unified 40k/Fantasy rules and tournament set.

3 simple changes, that would require very little involvement from GW, each would drastically cut costs and improve profitability.

It could cut it's non European divisions, supply those markets purely through mail order - with the VAT advantage.

And if they wanted to go the whole hog they could distribute everything within Europe through somewhere like Jersey.

underfire wargaming - I suspect views vary based on country. Mine come from the UK where GW has a much stronger hold. In other countries where they don't dominate the highstreet and where the market is more reliant on independents which have a wider range of franchises I suspect that the influence of GW is less.


As for the price issue I find much of is isn't just GW's actual prices but a perception of them. They are seen as expensive and for some reason vastly more so than many other hobbies - despite the fact that something like a new generation console - a good level PC for gaming - etc... can all cost as much as a full army.

It's certainly not a dirt cheap hobby but in comparison its not beyond other markets. I think the problem is its just too expensive for many younger generations - I also do agree that its startup costs are high and that they could do a lot better with a cheaper startup option to lure people in .

I voted LOTR/Hobbit, but yeah, Games Day is probably the very next thing to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Linkdead wrote:
I am amazed that people think GW will go bankrupt. The IP GW owns is simply too valuable on the secondary market to let this happen.

Not really.

The IP is valuable enough that if they did go bankrupt it would be one of they sold.

40K lives on with or without GW.

j_p_chess wrote:
I hope they go bankrupt that latest codex was a donkey diorama turd

Even as a Tyranid player those are some serious sad entitlement issues to wish unemployment on thousands of people because your toys aren't good enough.

Apparently they cut GW HQ Germany instead, maybe USA. Not into the the whole rumours thing but who knows.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.nz/2014/01/games-workshop-germany-shut-down.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Faeit212+%28Faeit+212%29

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I voted LOTR/Hobbit, but yeah, Games Day is probably the very next thing to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Linkdead wrote:
I am amazed that people think GW will go bankrupt. The IP GW owns is simply too valuable on the secondary market to let this happen.

Not really.

The IP is valuable enough that if they did go bankrupt it would be one of they sold.

40K lives on with or without GW.

But the ramification is what kind of support would an IP get? Would it take months if not years to sort through what was bought? Unlike TSR which worked into WoTC and then subsequently Hasbro, a dissolved GW would mean the IP properties would be over-analyzed and everything dissected in order to figure out what to do with that property.

 Overread wrote:
underfire wargaming - I suspect views vary based on country. Mine come from the UK where GW has a much stronger hold. In other countries where they don't dominate the highstreet and where the market is more reliant on independents which have a wider range of franchises I suspect that the influence of GW is less.


As for the price issue I find much of is isn't just GW's actual prices but a perception of them. They are seen as expensive and for some reason vastly more so than many other hobbies - despite the fact that something like a new generation console - a good level PC for gaming - etc... can all cost as much as a full army.

It's certainly not a dirt cheap hobby but in comparison its not beyond other markets. I think the problem is its just too expensive for many younger generations - I also do agree that its startup costs are high and that they could do a lot better with a cheaper startup option to lure people in .

That is fair enough it does depend on were is your geographic area as yes their seems to be a rather big difference in the wargaming market set up from North America compared too the UK, I wonder what main land Europe is like?

Yes I can see where your going, but we should always compare any hobby with the same type of hobby, apples vs oranges doesn't really make much sense . If we do compare GW's games to other companies we do see a lot of important differences, I agree it is a rather high price for the younger crowd to get into let alone the older crowd who has other things they must use their wallets for . In the end this is also a double edged sword, yes they do what I said earlier in harm but also due too their high prices it allows starting companies like mine to be able to enter the market and when selling at a reasonable price to have a chance at bringing something different too the market. GW if they really wanted too could lower their prices so low that any other company would struggle to just break a little above breaking even.

However thankfully for guys like me this is not the case, though they could defiantly bring down the prices for everyone who does play their games, however I think the biggest issue for me and why I never got into 40k or Warhammer really came down too the rules and setting, the rules I never really liked at all, very restrictive and the settings never were of my taste. That however is a personal opinion and one that everyone shares different views on.

anyhow thank you for your reply, I agree on a few things with you, I just personally do feel that the rest of the hobby would not be truly hurt in the long run if things went that way, however who knows what could happen? though it seems most gaming clubs make most of their sales in card games and board games now adays .

 marielle wrote:
It could cut it's non European divisions, supply those markets purely through mail order - with the VAT advantage.

And if they wanted to go the whole hog they could distribute everything within Europe through somewhere like Jersey.

I think the Revenue have stamped on that rule, actually.

The other thing is that the retail chain is their main marketing mechanism. If they went to mail order only, a lot of potential customers would never realise the company existed.

 WarOne wrote:
But the ramification is what kind of support would an IP get? Would it take months if not years to sort through what was bought? Unlike TSR which worked into WoTC and then subsequently Hasbro, a dissolved GW would mean the IP properties would be over-analyzed and everything dissected in order to figure out what to do with that property.

I make no claims about what 40K would look like on the other side of such a transition, only that 40K's existence doesn't depend on GW (whereas the opposite is most certainly true!).

underfire wargaming wrote:
though it seems most gaming clubs make most of their sales in card games and board games now adays .

I suspect that's partly a result of mark-up. The cards might sell for less but I suspect that the profit margin is greater on them because they are a lot cheaper to buy in. GW models and other miniature ranges I suspect that whilst they cost more the margin for profit is less as they cost more for the shop to stock.


It's a pattern you see in a fair few markets where the high priced items don't actually make the greatest amount of profit for the retailer.

Nice thread. I've voted for LOTR/Hobbit.

 Overread wrote:

underfire wargaming wrote:
though it seems most gaming clubs make most of their sales in card games and board games now adays .

I suspect that's partly a result of mark-up. The cards might sell for less but I suspect that the profit margin is greater on them because they are a lot cheaper to buy in. GW models and other miniature ranges I suspect that whilst they cost more the margin for profit is less as they cost more for the shop to stock.

There's actually only about a 30% profit margin on CCGs, barring singles sales (and that depends entirely on how much your FLGS buys them for). It's offset mostly by sheer volume of sales, with prerelease event nights pulling in a few grand easily in event entries alone, and actual releases doing similarly well on actual product.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 marielle wrote:
It could cut it's non European divisions, supply those markets purely through mail order - with the VAT advantage.

And if they wanted to go the whole hog they could distribute everything within Europe through somewhere like Jersey.

I think the Revenue have stamped on that rule, actually.

The other thing is that the retail chain is their main marketing mechanism. If they went to mail order only, a lot of potential customers would never realise the company existed.

I didn't say anything about cutting the retail chain in the UK (but then that is pretty fluid anyway, with shops opening and closing all the time), and possibly in Europe (English speaking of course ).

But from a business stand point it makes perfect sense to cut the US division, not least because the majority of the bad news stories, and poor decisions, that fill this, and other forums, come out of that division.It makes perfect sense to use the VAT advantage and supply that market remotely. The same applies to all non-EU markets.

And if they are really serious about maximising their revenue, with a view to controlling price (a coded way of saying cutting prices in the medium term) they will stop supplying product to online discounters.Or if they must continue with these arrangements, to restrict to the discount to 5%, and use any infringement as a way of getting out of any contract. The discounters get far more out of these arrangements than GW, and are quick to pass off the blame when things go wrong.

Retail stores for sure. Even here in the city of New York we have but a single GW store on 8th street i think (two others closed i believe). It is probably the smallest GW i have ever seen, though the other ones i saw were in the UK. Either way if they're losing players they're going to downsize the business, as removing products such as Fantasy or the Hobbit will lose them even more players.

Goodbye games day. We watched you become a monster and we're glad to see you go

Their wrists.



Was that inappropriate? Eh, who cares?