Protoss don't have the numbers to survive contact...With anyone. The scale is off, they'd die or decide they wanted to fight for the greater good, one or the other.
The minute these things encounter the Tyranid Hive fleets, I think I would rather just grab a ship and leave the galaxy.
To think on it, your talking about 2 races of hyper evolved bio-organisms meeting. The flood has the ability to tap into the central nervous system, as a symbiote, and modify the host into hyper predator. I would see the flood quickly becoming consumed and enfolded into the fleets. I really don't think the galaxy would like to see whole new breeds of Malanthropes that can do even more genetic evil on the battlefield, let alone something like a carnifex that can evolve at will to suit the task at hand, rather than have to spawn a whole new clutch to handle said task.
40k is definitely one of, if not the, heavyweaight sci-fi universes. Everything is beyond grimdark, powerful, and deadly and huge in size and scale. Even star wars, which has huge amounts of power as far as sci-fi setting go wouldn't last long when a freaking star destroyer is the size of a frigate (no really, a cobra destroyer, one of the "smallest escorts" is the same size as a freakin star destroyer).
Being in the 40K universe is just finding a good way to die.
Klingons would stomp other races hard in space battles. Nothing in 40K can fight at FTL speeds.
On the ground, not so much. Baatleth vs. genestealer works out...poorly.
Naminé wrote: Ewoks would win out in the end though.
Spoiler:
EWOKS ARE THE HIVE MIND!
Lets try someone with a little oomph...
How about the post economic scarcity society that is The Culture?
Frazzled wrote: Klingons would stomp other races hard in space battles. Nothing in 40K can fight at FTL speeds.
On the ground, not so much. Baatleth vs. genestealer works out...poorly.
Naminé wrote: Ewoks would win out in the end though.
Spoiler:
EWOKS ARE THE HIVE MIND!
Lets try someone with a little oomph...
How about the post economic scarcity society that is The Culture?
Klingon vessels are tiny compared to what the Imperium flies. Most battles in ST also do not take place at even Warp 1, they fight under impulse speed.
I'd like to see something like the Combine from Half Life 2, kind of a dark mirror to the Tau. They have advanced technology and biomechanical alteration procedures.
warpcrafter wrote:What about Klingons? They'd love being in a Universe where there is nothing but endless war.
buddha wrote:Being in the 40K universe is just finding a good way to die.
Perfect for Klingons!
Speaking of Star Trek, I think the Borg would get on fine.
The Borg would do fine if they could get a foot hold early on. After they get a hold of 40K teknologi I am shure they would be able to fight. Also the Borg seem to do fine vs non-energy weapons as well, not just hide behind a shield.
What I think would be great would be when the borg got hold of eldars, orks, kroot or psykers in the hive. Funn all around. Wraight bone, necron phasing and Tau tecnolegy cubes. :-)
Of course borg got toasted by species 3198631983619236 something. It is not safe to know what how they would compare to tyranids.
Some Q enteties would also be cool.
Leo Atraidies and his golden path could do well (not a species but a singel person, then he would join the cabal would he not?)
Speaking of Star Trek, I think the Borg would get on fine.
Borg shields only adapt to energy weapons. Many, many Imperial vessels pack macro-cannons, which shoot explosive shells the size of large buildings.
They would adapt.
No, they wouldn't. They would die by the thousands, first to sustained fire from a hundred different Patterns of weapons from a dozen different Imperial Naval ships, and then fall to bolter and chainsword action as Space Marines boarded their Cubes with meltabombs and detonated it from the inside.
A race such as the Borg is a workaday issue for Space Marines. Seriously. They have nothing of any "zomg!" ability compared to the norms of 40K.
Leo Atraidies and his golden path could do well (not a species but a singel person, then he would join the cabal would he not?)
He (and his descendents) are already in 40K. They call him The God-Emperor of Mankind.
Psienesis wrote: They die. They all die. Their passing goes unnoticed and unremarked, being the tiniest of ripples on the surface of space.
Given that it effectively required killing all sentient life in the galaxy to stop the Flood, I'm betting they could do just fine in 40k verse. Upon infestation they assume and assimilate the knowledge and abilities of their hosts, so you cannot corner them. Once they infect a host they learn everything the host knows and the host's consciousness is consumed and merged into the gestalt whole. That gestalt consciousness, aka Gravemind, is roughly equivalent to the Shadow in the Warp in effectiveness, power, and reach.
Psienesis wrote: They die. They all die. Their passing goes unnoticed and unremarked, being the tiniest of ripples on the surface of space.
Given that it effectively required killing all sentient life in the galaxy to stop the Flood, I'm betting they could do just fine in 40k verse. Upon infestation they assume and assimilate the knowledge and abilities of their hosts, so you cannot corner them. Once they infect a host they learn everything the host knows and the host's consciousness is consumed and merged into the gestalt whole. That gestalt consciousness, aka Gravemind, is roughly equivalent to the Shadow in the Warp in effectiveness, power, and reach.
The Imperium alone has weapons that can stop the Flood dead in its tracks. You have a Flood-infested planet? You bomb the planet with the Life-Eater virus. This burns away the Flood entirely, and leaves not a single spore in its wake to infect another host. You do not even need to put your people at risk.
This does not even enter the sorts of things that Nurgle (or any particularly powerful psyker of any race, for that matter) could do with/to the Gravemind.
Psienesis wrote: They die. They all die. Their passing goes unnoticed and unremarked, being the tiniest of ripples on the surface of space.
Given that it effectively required killing all sentient life in the galaxy to stop the Flood, I'm betting they could do just fine in 40k verse. Upon infestation they assume and assimilate the knowledge and abilities of their hosts, so you cannot corner them. Once they infect a host they learn everything the host knows and the host's consciousness is consumed and merged into the gestalt whole. That gestalt consciousness, aka Gravemind, is roughly equivalent to the Shadow in the Warp in effectiveness, power, and reach.
The Imperium alone has weapons that can stop the Flood dead in its tracks. You have a Flood-infested planet? You bomb the planet with the Life-Eater virus. This burns away the Flood entirely, and leaves not a single spore in its wake to infect another host. You do not even need to put your people at risk.
This does not even enter the sorts of things that Nurgle (or any particularly powerful psyker of any race, for that matter) could do with/to the Gravemind.
For the same reason virus bombing doesn't work against every Tyranid or Ork invasion, it wouldn't work vs the Flood. You're talking an interstellar species that caused the 'annihilation' of two tier 1 races, races with technology comparable to the best Eldar or Necron tech.
Halo 4 really jumped the shark with it's fluff turns, imho, but the Human/Forerunner war was between two races at the top of the galactic food chain (capable of building dyson spheres, galaxy killing weapons, psychics, etc). Driven into conflict by the Flood which pretty much wiped both races out of existence. The Forerunners seeded a tiny portion of the human race on Earth and a few others around the galaxy, and then basically digitized their race and killed everyone else in order to starve out the 'tyranids' because there was no other way to win.
When the Imperium is ready to nuke everything (all of their worlds) and can tackle a psychic being that can unify even the most basic flood organisms across the entire galaxy, then sure.
The Flood, in the Halo games, are only stopped because they've starved to death over something like 100,000 years. Even then it's a pretty near thing that they'll break loose and consume the galaxy and requires the detonation of a Halo ring that sterilizes a 25,000 light year radius (Not even the Necrons can bring destructive power like that) sphere of space. They aren't purely planet bound, as they routinely infest covenant and human forces and then use those ships to expand outwards. The one saving grace is how few ships actually come in contact with the Flood infestations.
Landing on a 40k planet with any space faring race pretty much means you will have the "Tyranids" on an all new scale and form. When a race that can kill all sentient life in the galaxy with the flick of a switch can't beat them without throwing that switch, the Imperium sure as hell isn't flicking a switch and doing it.
[url]
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Halo_Array[/url]
The Forerunners, who smoke the Imperium seven ways to Sunday for Tech, and really the Necrons wish they could match some of their tech, had to kill everything in a scorched earth policy.
I know it's popular to have Halo fanboys think the Master Chief is all that and for 40k fanboys to want to run Halo down every chance they get, but nothing in 40k can instantly eradicate 25,000 light years worth of organic material in one shot. That's ~1/2 the galactic diameter in terms of diameter of effect (the milky way being ~100,000 to 120,000 light years across, and an installation working with a diameter of ~50,000 light years). Cyclonic torpedos, Death Stars, sun destroyers, the entire 40k Imperial fleet, etc are kids toys in comparison to a Halo device. Given that the only defense against a Halo detonation is to escape this plane of existence (by entering sub space). If it thinks/is sentient, it is dead, period.
The Flood, in the Halo games, are only stopped because they've starved to death over something like 100,000 years. Even then it's a pretty near thing that they'll break loose and consume the galaxy and requires the detonation of a Halo ring that sterilizes a 25,000 light year radius (Not even the Necrons can bring destructive power like that) sphere of space. They aren't purely planet bound, as they routinely infest covenant and human forces and then use those ships to expand outwards. The one saving grace is how few ships actually come in contact with the Flood infestations.
The Necrons actually do have that kind of power, they just don't use it like that. They have time-travel, for feth's sake.
The Flood, in the Halo games, are only stopped because they've starved to death over something like 100,000 years. Even then it's a pretty near thing that they'll break loose and consume the galaxy and requires the detonation of a Halo ring that sterilizes a 25,000 light year radius (Not even the Necrons can bring destructive power like that) sphere of space. They aren't purely planet bound, as they routinely infest covenant and human forces and then use those ships to expand outwards. The one saving grace is how few ships actually come in contact with the Flood infestations.
The Flood never become immune to fire. This is why the Life-Eater virus, which turns whatever world they pop out on in the description of this scenario into a flaming ball of hydrogen gas, will be effective. All the talk about how they spread is irrelevant, because they haven't had X millions of years of history in the 40K setting that they had in their own franchise.
Per the terms of this discussion, they get moved from Franchise A (Halo, Star Trek, whatever) to the 40K franchise. Which means they don't have galaxy-spanning infections or anything. They've got diddly, against a galaxy that brings a whole lot more than diddly.
I mean, seriously, the SM (and other factions) put down god-delivered zombie hordes as a matter of daily operations. You think some Space Zombies are going to somehow be more difficult than Zombies From CancerAIDS-Ridden Hell Bearing EbolaSARS?
The Flood, in the Halo games, are only stopped because they've starved to death over something like 100,000 years. Even then it's a pretty near thing that they'll break loose and consume the galaxy and requires the detonation of a Halo ring that sterilizes a 25,000 light year radius (Not even the Necrons can bring destructive power like that) sphere of space. They aren't purely planet bound, as they routinely infest covenant and human forces and then use those ships to expand outwards. The one saving grace is how few ships actually come in contact with the Flood infestations.
The Necrons actually do have that kind of power, they just don't use it like that. They have time-travel, for feth's sake.
The Flood, in the Halo games, are only stopped because they've starved to death over something like 100,000 years. Even then it's a pretty near thing that they'll break loose and consume the galaxy and requires the detonation of a Halo ring that sterilizes a 25,000 light year radius (Not even the Necrons can bring destructive power like that) sphere of space. They aren't purely planet bound, as they routinely infest covenant and human forces and then use those ships to expand outwards. The one saving grace is how few ships actually come in contact with the Flood infestations.
The Flood never become immune to fire. This is why the Life-Eater virus, which turns whatever world they pop out on in the description of this scenario into a flaming ball of hydrogen gas, will be effective. All the talk about how they spread is irrelevant, because they haven't had X millions of years of history in the 40K setting that they had in their own franchise.
Per the terms of this discussion, they get moved from Franchise A (Halo, Star Trek, whatever) to the 40K franchise. Which means they don't have galaxy-spanning infections or anything. They've got diddly, against a galaxy that brings a whole lot more than diddly.
I mean, seriously, the SM (and other factions) put down god-delivered zombie hordes as a matter of daily operations. You think some Space Zombies are going to somehow be more difficult than Zombies From CancerAIDS-Ridden Hell Bearing EbolaSARS?
Save they aren't really zombies. They're a biological entity that consumes you into the gestalt whole and then spins out specialized infection hosts. Very much like the Tyranids consuming all organic matter. Super space Ebola is nothing vs. a 25,000 light year weapon. It's a shot gun vs an atomic bomb in scale and capacity to put down the flood.
If we move them as a faction, you do have a galaxy, or soon to be galaxy spanning race. As of Halo 4, it is only the detonation of the Halo which stops them as they converge on it to stop it from going active and wiping it out again. So, given that if you pull them across, they'd already be getting close to sector sized, the 40k universe is totally FUBAR as the flood now warp jumps across the galaxy with ease, consuming everything and multiplying faster than even tyranids or orks.
Time travel isn't really all that impressive, because if you can travel in time, anything you would go forward or backward and do you've already done so it wouldn't actually change anything. The Necron's big weapon claims to fame blow up star systems, the Forerunners kill galaxies, and have because nothing else could stop the Flood (i.e. all the planet killing weapons in the galaxy were stopping them, nuclear cleansing fire from the sky that literally glassed planets wasn't stopping them, nothing was stopping the Flood save total and complete annihilation).
Psiensis why do you take suck offense when somebody have different interpetation then you?
The flood and the Borg might not atract the atension of space marines. It would just be some other local menance until they got some traction. The flood could easaly travel from planet to planet undetected for quite some time like the genestealers. The borg would do hit and run attacks until it had good intel on your defenses. That is even asuming they come in contact with imperial froces. If the flood came into contact with orks or if the d. Eldars veponiced it good grief.
Also leo atraidies is not like the emperor. The emperor planed good and failed at the finishline. Leo foresaw all and sacwfised all on the golden path, he would be recruited by the cabal.
Lets try someone with a little oomph...
How about the post economic scarcity society that is The Culture?
No ship in 40k stands even the remotest chance against a Culture vessel.
Ground combat would be a different matter initially. The Culture doesn't have a military per se, and considers that kind of foot slogging combat tremendously primitive. That said, if it became necessary to fight ground battles for whatever reason, a GSV or two could produce masses of lethal combat drones in a relatively short period.
They'd probably get on quite well with the Tau and Eldar, and I bet they'd have a soft spot for Orks too .
Niiai wrote: Psiensis why do you take suck offense when somebody have different interpetation then you?
The flood and the Borg might not atract the atension of space marines. It would just be some other local menance until they got some traction. The flood could easaly travel from planet to planet undetected for quite some time like the genestealers. The borg would do hit and run attacks until it had good intel on your defenses. That is even asuming they come in contact with imperial froces. If the flood came into contact with orks or if the d. Eldars veponiced it good grief.
Also leo atraidies is not like the emperor. The emperor planed good and failed at the finishline. Leo foresaw all and sacwfised all on the golden path, he would be recruited by the cabal.
That is, until the Flood/Borg gets eaten by the Warp.
Do we ever see the Borg killed by Kinetic weapons other than in the God awful Next Gen films?
Considering that the shields in Star Trek often block physical projectiles I don't think it is out of the question that the Borg would be able to repel boarding actions and kinetic weaponry. They'd probably be able to shoot out the larger munitions with their multiple phaser banks.
Is the Silentium Flood the Precursors, or is it the Flood cut off from what they are an avatar for? Because there's a BIG difference between the Flood in the Halo games and the Flood during the Forerunner-Human War about 10,000 (IIRC, give or take some) years prior to the events in Halo.
For example, Silentium Flood (which are just the Precursors) are eldritch abominations comparable to the C'tan capable of just balatant space magic empires like the Tau, Imperium, Eldar, Orks, and Tyranids would have zero defense against.
The Protoss meanwhile aren't much, but the Beast will stomp everyone unless immediately killed, as it's scrapcode on steroids.
Niiai wrote: Psiensis why do you take suck offense when somebody have different interpetation then you?
The flood and the Borg might not atract the atension of space marines. It would just be some other local menance until they got some traction. The flood could easaly travel from planet to planet undetected for quite some time like the genestealers. The borg would do hit and run attacks until it had good intel on your defenses. That is even asuming they come in contact with imperial froces. If the flood came into contact with orks or if the d. Eldars veponiced it good grief.
Also leo atraidies is not like the emperor. The emperor planed good and failed at the finishline. Leo foresaw all and sacwfised all on the golden path, he would be recruited by the cabal.
It's not offense. Though I should point out that these kinds of debates crop up once a week or so, and they always end the same way. That is, as this is a 40K board, then the 40K factions always win. If this was a Halo board, or a Star Trek or Star Wars board, then those factions would win, it's the nature of fandoms.
But when people start moving the goalposts or changing the parameters of the previously-presented scenario, that gets annoying, because someone (whether it's me or not, I don't care) posts the reasons why the 40K verse would roflstomp them, and then someone comes in with a "but IF..." scenario that basically disregards what was previously posted, and changes the scope of the entire comparison.
Save they aren't really zombies. They're a biological entity that consumes you into the gestalt whole and then spins out specialized infection hosts. Very much like the Tyranids consuming all organic matter. Super space Ebola is nothing vs. a 25,000 light year weapon. It's a shot gun vs an atomic bomb in scale and capacity to put down the flood.
If we move them as a faction, you do have a galaxy, or soon to be galaxy spanning race. As of Halo 4, it is only the detonation of the Halo which stops them as they converge on it to stop it from going active and wiping it out again. So, given that if you pull them across, they'd already be getting close to sector sized, the 40k universe is totally FUBAR as the flood now warp jumps across the galaxy with ease, consuming everything and multiplying faster than even tyranids or orks
And then they meet Lucius and they're fethed. Or the Enslavers, and they're fethed. Or the Necrons, and they're *really* fethed. Or Nugle, and they are now his bishes. The Flood, themselves, don't have light-year wide bombs. If they did, they wouldn't need the zombies (and call them whatever you like, they're zombies. In space.) Those were weapons used to stop them. We've seen that tech in play in the War in Heaven.
Time travel isn't really all that impressive, because if you can travel in time, anything you would go forward or backward and do you've already done so it wouldn't actually change anything. The Necron's big weapon claims to fame blow up star systems, the Forerunners kill galaxies, and have because nothing else could stop the Flood (i.e. all the planet killing weapons in the galaxy were stopping them, nuclear cleansing fire from the sky that literally glassed planets wasn't stopping them, nothing was stopping the Flood save total and complete annihilation).
That is not how it is described as functioning for Orikan the Diviner, who can and does change the course of history with his time-travel shenanigans, often to unforeseen consequences. The reason they call him The Diviner, though, is because he uses his time-travel shenanigans to ensure that his predictions come true.
And, yes, Halo Universe BS, yadda yadda. The reason I know the 40K universe can stop them is because Master Chief stops them in his own universe, and Space Marines are Master Chief +100. Also, there are nine hundred, ninety-nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety-nine more of them than there are of him.
Niiai wrote: I do agree that borg and flod does not have much experience with the warp. This could get interesting.
Although somebody pointed out how the flood contamination was it did sound a lot like how the enslavers drove the necrons away.
Some interesting races from the doctor universe. Daleks and/or time lords could be interesting. Cybermen would not be so incredible.
Daleks would kill everything, possibly even the Chaos Gods, they have weapons capable of exterminating all forms of life in the multiverse. The cyberman got buffed recently so the only way to beat them was for the human empire to blow up an entire galaxy to win the war against them. Even then they survived. Oh, they're also capable of moving so fast that in their view, time freezes. And can make themselves near invincible to any weapon so long as several of their units have died to it, where they then 'upgrade' and patch themselves to shrug it off.
Cybusmen however are much different and incredibly weak compared to current Cybermen (Mondassian and the current hybrid) and would probably die to a single Regiment of Guardsmen. Nothing besides small threats in Doctor Who could be added to anything, as they're hilariously overpowered.
Master Chief only stopped them because they were starved Flood that barely got past stage one. Stage Four flood (which is Silentium Flood), are just the Precursors, and capable of bulldozing the IOM with little effort, especially if they have any Forerunner tech, which is on par with WIH Necrons, if not better in the area of feats.
Master Chief only stopped them because they were starved Flood that barely got past stage one. Stage Four flood (which is Silentium Flood), are just the Precursors, and capable of bulldozing the IOM with little effort, especially if they have any Forerunner tech, which is on par with WIH Necrons, if not better in the area of feats.
Is that in the actual games, or is this something from the books?
If this is bookstuff, then I give not a feth, because it becomes badly-written-sci-fi-books-for-now-badly-written-video-game against usually-badly-written-sci-fi-books-for-badly-written-tabletop-wargame, and then it just gets insane.
And, if we are getting to *that* level of things...
God-Emperor snaps his fingers, the entire Flood vanishes into a Warp Storm (like he is canonically credited to doing to Vandire's fleet during the Age of Apostasy, with the Warpstorm called the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath) and the Flood is then destroyed by the ever-victorious Black Hamster Chapter of Space Hamsters.
Here is their Chapter Master: Rodentus Cricetinae.
Master Chief only stopped them because they were starved Flood that barely got past stage one. Stage Four flood (which is Silentium Flood), are just the Precursors, and capable of bulldozing the IOM with little effort, especially if they have any Forerunner tech, which is on par with WIH Necrons, if not better in the area of feats.
Is that in the actual games, or is this something from the books?
If this is bookstuff, then I give not a feth, because it becomes badly-written-sci-fi-books-for-now-badly-written-video-game against usually-badly-written-sci-fi-books-for-badly-written-tabletop-wargame, and then it just gets insane.
And, if we are getting to *that* level of things...
God-Emperor snaps his fingers, the entire Flood vanishes into a Warp Storm (like he is canonically credited to doing to Vandire's fleet during the Age of Apostasy, with the Warpstorm called the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath) and the Flood is then destroyed by the ever-victorious Black Hamster Chapter of Space Hamsters.
Here is their Chapter Master: Rodentus Cricetinae.
Fear his fuzzy wrath.
The books are just as valid as the games, just as is the Black Library. That an Halo books are explicitly canon.
Then the God-Emperor traps them all in a Warp Storm, and the Black Hamster Chapter destroys them utterly. Game, set, match.
I mean, there's some gak in BL novels that I refuse to countenance, because it's utter fanwankery gak, but, there it is. This is why I don't like to get into debates pulling things out of BL novels (mainly because they have no canon) because it just gets insane.
Psienesis wrote: Then the God-Emperor traps them all in a Warp Storm, and the Black Hamster Chapter destroys them utterly. Game, set, match.
I mean, there's some gak in BL novels that I refuse to countenance, because it's utter fanwankery gak, but, there it is. This is why I don't like to get into debates pulling things out of BL novels (mainly because they have no canon) because it just gets insane.
Precursors can move galaxies. Stakes are raised.
(Although there wasn't anything more on that. Just 'they can move galaxies'.
Psienesis wrote: Galaxies move on their own. Are we sure they're not just claiming something that happens due to natural law?
No, as in acually move. Besides, context wise, the Precursors are indestructible space magic entities. Oh, and Precursors are older than the universe IIRC. Only their avatars can be destroyed, which are the Flood. Nothing in W40K could really stand up to them besides Chaos and the Necrons/C'tan. Against which they'd likely stalemate, as neither faction could really do anything besides blow each others pawns up.
However, Flood as of the Human-Covenant war and not the Forerunner-Human war is vastly weaker and never got to fully develop.
If the Precursors predate the universe, then who is gainsaying them claiming to be able to move galaxies, when galaxies move on their own? I mean, galaxies actually move. Everything in space is in constant motion. Are we sure they're not just claiming to make that happen? Have they demonstrated this ability?
But sounds to me like the Precursors are Bungie's version of the C'Tan. We all know what happened to them.
Psienesis wrote: If the Precursors predate the universe, then who is gainsaying them claiming to be able to move galaxies, when galaxies move on their own? I mean, galaxies actually move. Everything in space is in constant motion. Are we sure they're not just claiming to make that happen? Have they demonstrated this ability?
But sounds to me like the Precursors are Bungie's version of the C'Tan. We all know what happened to them.
Not Bungie. Bungie I don't think even had the idea of Precursors besides a single word we saw a couple times (plus if they actually created them, we'd end up with something well designed like the eldritch entities in Marathon). 343i has taken over and are the people behind the whole practically pornographic view of the Forerunners that have dispelled any and all mystery surrounding them, the Precursors, and the Flood.
As should be obvious, I don't really keep up with these sorts of things. The last Halo game I played was... Three? Four? The Xbox 360 launch-title one. Beat it in the first sitting, so maybe five hours of gameplay? Sorely disappointed in the apparent cut of the single-player campaign and its story in favor of the multiplayer deathmatch.
If the Borg attacked it would be very low key, they would clearly know that a straight up fight would be the end of them, so it's simple, hit a frigate here and there, hit a agri world or frontier world and disappear before a reprisal, then escalate a little and send small teams to low level worlds and hit a few ad mech outposts, assimilate key figures on some forge worlds (beaming tech is vastly superior to anything 40k has. Can also beam through shields) thus learning ALL they know of imperial tech, do this for 2/300 years all the while building transwarp hubs and gates, use these gates to coordinate attacks on hive worlds and forge worlds and leave before a reprisal, the imperium then has to fight ships that are immune to their weapons, can beam aboard there ships, and have learned there tactics and how to best counter them, given time the Borg would sweep the imperials aside through shear numbers and superior tech
Formosa wrote: If the Borg attacked it would be very low key, they would clearly know that a straight up fight would be the end of them, so it's simple, hit a frigate here and there, hit a agri world or frontier world and disappear before a reprisal, then escalate a little and send small teams to low level worlds and hit a few ad mech outposts, assimilate key figures on some forge worlds (beaming tech is vastly superior to anything 40k has. Can also beam through shields) thus learning ALL they know of imperial tech, do this for 2/300 years all the while building transwarp hubs and gates, use these gates to coordinate attacks on hive worlds and forge worlds and leave before a reprisal, the imperium then has to fight ships that are immune to their weapons, can beam aboard there ships, and have learned there tactics and how to best counter them, given time the Borg would sweep the imperials aside through shear numbers and superior tech
Well for one, the Borg can't really assimilate Imperial tech (most of it is man-powered), they've never shown resistance to weapons of their yields (high gigatons to terratons for single blasts), and Borg are only immune to weapons in Star Trek due to most of it being frequency based particle weaponry technobabble. As shown, they have zero defense against melee or physical weapons, so Macrocannons will shred their ships in short order, and Lancers will likely overwhelm their shields with little effort. The Borg don't pack any punch to bring to W40K and will be shredded on their first attack by any respectable defensive fleet.
It doesn't help either that they'll all simply become Daemon Engines whenever exposed to Chaos via scrapcode and helpfully provide Chaos forces in the Eye with their own replicating armies of fodder.
So, just a few facts about what the SIlentium Flood bring to the table.
“Unknown construct approaching at one-third light-speed,” it said. “Instructions!” Sharp still refused to believe. The expanded gray circle outlined an irregular ball of coiling and twisting star roads, Precursor artifacts that had been around for as long as any Forerunner could remember— unchanging, unresponsive. Revered by both Forerunners and humans as the remnants of our Creation. “It’s going to arrive here about the same time as those ships,” Maker said. “Can we outrun it?” I asked. “No,” she said.
We were overtaken by the vast weave of reawakened star roads, spinning and churning like serpents in a huge nest— the graceful and haunting structures of our deep past now made fell and horrifying. The tangle looped around Uthera, deftly avoiding intersecting the planet. Then, incredibly, the planet itself began to crack and shrink, as if squeezed by a huge fist. The resulting shift in our orbit thrust us farther into the mass. An entire planet was being destroyed— just to draw us closer. “This is the way Precursors moved stars,” Maker whispered.
But what I see in the abyssal night around the greater Ark is enough to freeze me through and through. Somehow, the old artifacts have been transported in such amazing density that the galaxy beyond is barely visible, as if viewed through a weave of shadowy bars. The Ark is surrounded, and every second the star roads squeeze in. Already our radius of action is down to a few million kilometers.
That means there were enough of them to create a semi solid sphere around a greater ark with a diameter of at least 6 million kilometers.
These things could also move through ftl, pull ships along with them, and generate fields that disabled A.I. and technology in the systems they enter.
Psienesis wrote: But none of them conjure Warp Storms out of thin air. Or.. space. Thin space. That's it.
So... they lose.
They are shaped by thought and made of exotic matter manipulated by living space time. They are an anathema to the warp as they represent the true order of reality, and thus, would likely negate warp powers altogether. Much like the pylons on Cadia.
Borg have indeed been shown to adapt to Kinetics and pysical blows and it would not take long at all, there thing is adaption, so if imperial weapons use Kinetics and such, then they would adapt its that simple.
Also note that I know that a straight up fight the borg would lose, no doubt, the Borg would also realise this and commit to a hit and run kind of warfare that the imperials could not even hope to match, add to this some of the most sophisticated sensor tech in almost any setting that can detect SHIPS from sectors away, so they know where you are and where your patrols are, they dont use the warp in the same way as other trek races and as such for arguments sake the 40k warp would not affect them, they use transwarp that can fire them across a GALAXY in a very short period and with great accuracy.
So far we have a race that
A: knows where you are at all times except if you are in the "warp" to which they would adapt to by assimilating psychics.
B: Is faster than you in almost everyway, more manueverable and has Beam tech that can get through your shields.
c: Will adapt to your technology very very rapidly, body armour for drone will start to apear and cubes will start getting larger to accomodate assimilated imperial tech, that will be more efficient and accurate due to borg improvement.
D: you cannot fight as they will simply warp out as soon as the engagement becomes likely to end badly for them, to which you cannot stop or detect.
The Borg are like the nids, If given time they WILL out tech you, they WILL out adapt you, in a staight up fight 40k wins hands down, given time its the Borg.... Deamons a problem? add the pariah gene to the millions of drones being made or clone them, nids eating worlds? who cares we dont actually need them, were fleet based!, Space marines boarding your ships? Sweet, there coming to us, lets learn all we can about there tactics, so they kill a few cubes who cares, we know how they fight now, lets ambush a company... now we have space marine borg.... and the tech to build more due to the geneseed... wow these Imperials are generous
They are shaped by thought and made of exotic matter manipulated by living space time. They are an anathema to the warp as they represent the true order of reality, and thus, would likely negate warp powers altogether. Much like the pylons on Cadia.
That is not what you think it is.
If they are shaped by thought, then they are not the anathema of Chaos, because Thought is Chaos. If they are manipulated by Time, then they are not entirely of Order, for Order knows not of Time, for it exists apart from it in stasis. As in Chaos, where the Immaterium is an ever-changing landscape of thoughts, emotions and energies taking physical form into every imaginable and unimaginable shape, Order is perfect stillness, unchanging, unmoving, in stasis forever.
Between these two extremes, of course, lies mortal comprehension of what life, in all its varieties, entails.
True order? Wouldn't they then be anathema to eachother thus destroying the both of them? Also flood doesn't really seem very order oriented. I'm so lost now
A race that, after assimilating Forerunner technology, was capable of rendering dimensions incompatible with Forerunner ftl drives across 2/3rds of the galaxy. Stranding them in infected space.
buddha wrote: 40k is definitely one of, if not the, heavyweaight sci-fi universes. Everything is beyond grimdark, powerful, and deadly and huge in size and scale. Even star wars, which has huge amounts of power as far as sci-fi setting go wouldn't last long when a freaking star destroyer is the size of a frigate (no really, a cobra destroyer, one of the "smallest escorts" is the same size as a freakin star destroyer).
Being in the 40K universe is just finding a good way to die.
Lolno. If anything, W40K is smack dab in the middle of everything. The only really heavyweight parts of it are Chaos and the C'tan. The Culture, Xeelee and the Photino Birds (or whatever they're called), all of Doctor Who, all of Marvel, Lovecraft, Downstreamers, and so, so much more is vastly more powerful than W40K thanks to the wide range of Sci Fi there is.
buddha wrote: 40k is definitely one of, if not the, heavyweaight sci-fi universes. Everything is beyond grimdark, powerful, and deadly and huge in size and scale. Even star wars, which has huge amounts of power as far as sci-fi setting go wouldn't last long when a freaking star destroyer is the size of a frigate (no really, a cobra destroyer, one of the "smallest escorts" is the same size as a freakin star destroyer).
Being in the 40K universe is just finding a good way to die.
Lolno. If anything, W40K is smack dab in the middle of everything. The only really heavyweight parts of it are Chaos and the C'tan. The Culture, Xeelee and the Photino Birds (or whatever they're called), all of Doctor Who, all of Marvel, Lovecraft, Downstreamers, and so, so much more is vastly more powerful than W40K thanks to the wide range of Sci Fi there is.
I'd argue that 40k is one of the more heavyweight sci fi worlds beating out most. That being said, every single one you mentioned 100% is higher tier than 40k itself. The only ones that even crawl that high are Chaos, C'tan, and arguably Nids to some extent. That being said, even they cannot handle lovecraft, the Culture, and the sorts.
honestly high tier sci-fi is remarkably easy to get too and it's worth noting 90% of the time a setting's highest tier comes from pieces of bad writing, or "background info" or simply just some super threat that requires the people to deal with. It's like Star Wars. the most powerful things in the movie (the death stars) are pretty much a plot device.
I think it's more intresting once you ignore the plot devices like Death Stars, Blackstone Fortresses etc
BrianDavion wrote: honestly high tier sci-fi is remarkably easy to get too and it's worth noting 90% of the time a setting's highest tier comes from pieces of bad writing, or "background info" or simply just some super threat that requires the people to deal with. It's like Star Wars. the most powerful things in the movie (the death stars) are pretty much a plot device.
I think it's more intresting once you ignore the plot devices like Death Stars, Blackstone Fortresses etc
Excluding the Culture or the Xeelee.
Hell, a Culture ship braking too hard alone would wipe out the entire Sol System.
I don't care who wins, but I totally want to see a fist fight between Urgot Wrex and Cato Sicarius *grabs popcorn*
We can start with the exhibition round of Darth Revan vs Eldrad, take a brief commercial break for ODST vs Cadian paintball, a neat space fight between special guests an the Ancient Control chair vs a Hive Fleet, and finish the event off with the spectacle to end all spectacles, Vash the Stampede vs Kharn the Betrayer
The ultimate battle;
vs
The event will be hosted by dynamic tag team, Commander Farsight and Captain Picard.
Hmm, I could see the Protoss do sort of alright in the 40K universe. Their high tech, formidable psionic powers and deadly close combat prowess makes the Protoss more than a match for most other species, and unlike the races of 40K, who usually are either melee or shooting focused, the Protoss have mastered both types of warfare.
Now consider the fact, that Protoss live a nomadic lifestyle, chances are they simply decides to not engage in hostilities with other spices at all. Unlike the Eldar and IOM the Protoss have no ground to defend, and thus no reason to get bogged down in a long drawn out war.
The Flood, the Borg and the Forerunners would all do very well in the 40k universe. The Borg especially would obliterate static factions such as the Imperium.
Shlazaor wrote: The Flood, the Borg and the Forerunners would all do very well in the 40k universe. The Borg especially would obliterate static factions such as the Imperium.
Uh... no they wouldn't.
The Borg are miserably under the firepower of W40K, they wouldn't be able to use their technology well, and they couldn't simply change the frequency of their shields to match lances, macrocannons, or torpedoes. Not only do they not work against physical weapons, they only work on the particle weaponry of phasers, which is why they constantly mention the 'cycling frequencies' in Star Trek. And this is also ignoring how one Ork WHAAAG! would probably completely wipe out any solidified Borg position.
Redcruisair wrote: Hmm, I could see the Protoss do sort of alright in the 40K universe. Their high tech, formidable psionic powers and deadly close combat prowess makes the Protoss more than a match for most other species, and unlike the races of 40K, who usually are either melee or shooting focused, the Protoss have mastered both types of warfare.
Now consider the fact, that Protoss live a nomadic lifestyle, chances are they simply decides to not engage in hostilities with other spices at all. Unlike the Eldar and IOM the Protoss have no ground to defend, and thus no reason to get bogged down in a long drawn out war.
Food for thought.
I think what individuals are thinking about protoss is that the warp, if we think their powers of psionic would naturally become psykers, would promptly be very attractive and bam their non-protected minds go bye bye.
I think there needs to be some element of they know about the dangers. You can't just drop them in to the universe and then say oh random event x happens.
Redcruisair wrote: Hmm, I could see the Protoss do sort of alright in the 40K universe. Their high tech, formidable psionic powers and deadly close combat prowess makes the Protoss more than a match for most other species, and unlike the races of 40K, who usually are either melee or shooting focused, the Protoss have mastered both types of warfare.
Now consider the fact, that Protoss live a nomadic lifestyle, chances are they simply decides to not engage in hostilities with other spices at all. Unlike the Eldar and IOM the Protoss have no ground to defend, and thus no reason to get bogged down in a long drawn out war.
Food for thought.
While the Protoss could individually stand and even overcome 40k enemies, their empire is very small and they would get zerg rushed.
Also as Wyzilla and Octavian have already said, Silentium Flood goes around smashing planets, having 50,000 kilometers wide indestructible construct flying at relativistic speeds and intergalactic FTL helps, a lot.
God-Emperor snaps his fingers, the entire Flood vanishes into a Warp Storm (like he is canonically credited to doing to Vandire's fleet during the Age of Apostasy, with the Warpstorm called the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath)
Nice try, but you're lying.
It's never been explicitly stated in any 40K fluff that the storm was created by the Emperor. All statements regarding its origin have been in-universe declarations made by Imperials.
LordofHats wrote: I don't care who wins, but I totally want to see a fist fight between Urgot Wrex and Cato Sicarius *grabs popcorn*
We can start with the exhibition round of Darth Revan vs Eldrad, take a brief commercial break for ODST vs Cadian paintball, a neat space fight between special guests an the Ancient Control chair vs a Hive Fleet, and finish the event off with the spectacle to end all spectacles, Vash the Stampede vs Kharn the Betrayer
The ultimate battle;
vs
The event will be hosted by dynamic tag team, Commander Farsight and Captain Picard.
This is a great thread, swimming in the rage that is nerd fandom is a glorious thing. I'm bringing a kill team composed of Thanos, Darkseid, the Spectre (magics), Emma Frost (psycics), and the Hulk. Bring the noise.
LordofHats wrote: I don't care who wins, but I totally want to see a fist fight between Urgot Wrex and Cato Sicarius *grabs popcorn*
We can start with the exhibition round of Darth Revan vs Eldrad, take a brief commercial break for ODST vs Cadian paintball, a neat space fight between special guests an the Ancient Control chair vs a Hive Fleet, and finish the event off with the spectacle to end all spectacles, Vash the Stampede vs Kharn the Betrayer
The ultimate battle;
vs
The event will be hosted by dynamic tag team, Commander Farsight and Captain Picard.
Hell, a Culture ship braking too hard alone would wipe out the entire Sol System.
True. A single Culture ship (GSV class) could quite easily wipe out the entire Tyranid species by itself, using mass produced slaved offensive units.
When you think that the Men of Iron nearly wiped out humanity in the Dark Age of Technology and a Culture Mind is probably more advanced than the A.I's involved in that, it shows a different scale of power to the 40K universe. The idea of a Culture Mind entering the 40K universe and somehow being turned to Chaos is something that would be absolutely horrifying and would signal the end of the Imperium.
StarTrotter wrote: I think what individuals are thinking about protoss is that the warp, if we think their powers of psionic would naturally become psykers, would promptly be very attractive and bam their non-protected minds go bye bye.
A Protoss mind is not an unprotected thing at all. All Protoss societies are protected by the discipline of Khala, or shielded by the Void in the case of the Nerazim.
Exceptionally rare are the circumstances of Protoss being led astray by the influences of a none-Protoss entity.
Eh wrong. So far the Zerg have only managed to rush the Protoss homeworld. A heavy loss for the Protoss for sure, but the rest of their empire still stands.
Eh wrong. So far the Zerg have only managed to rush the Protoss homeworld. A heavy loss for the Protoss for sure, but the rest of their empire still stands.
While the Protoss control a considerable part of the Galaxy (1/8 IIRC) their population is very small for that immense territory and is divided in hundreds of worlds, that is pitiful compared with the millions that the IoM controls.
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Vargard Obi-wan wrote: Necrons would wipe out flood remember they are robots-cant bezombied.
and crons can destroy solar systems with satr array that blows up stars.
Frazzled wrote: How about the post economic scarcity society that is The Culture?
I think the Culture would stand a good chance. They'd be disgusted by the Imperium, and vice versa. Would they be affected by the Warp? That's where things would get complicated.
Frazzled wrote: Klingons would stomp other races hard in space battles. Nothing in 40K can fight at FTL speeds.
On the ground, not so much. Baatleth vs. genestealer works out...poorly.
Naminé wrote: Ewoks would win out in the end though.
Spoiler:
EWOKS ARE THE HIVE MIND!
Lets try someone with a little oomph...
How about the post economic scarcity society that is The Culture?
Klingons can fight at FTL speeds, but the problem is that their weapons won't even dent the shields of any ships. They'd only be a bit of a threat to the Tau.
Culture on the other hand bolostomps everything. The only tricky thing would be Chaos corruption and scrapcode, but even the Minds can combat that via quarantining parts of their 'brains' that are infected.
How well and how long would these race survive in the grimdark galaxy of 40k before getting killed off?
1. Flood are no threat to any competent scifi race. they only reason they are a threat in halo is because the Forerunners are unbelievably stupid. Their weapons and ships are horrible and they are so god damn arrogant it is annoying.
2. They don't really have the numbers to compete with the 40k races, but they are really good at staying hidden so they might actually last a while.
How well and how long would these race survive in the grimdark galaxy of 40k before getting killed off?
1. Flood are no threat to any competent scifi race. they only reason they are a threat in halo is because the Forerunners are unbelievably stupid. Their weapons and ships are horrible and they are so god damn arrogant it is annoying.
2. They don't really have the numbers to compete with the 40k races, but they are really good at staying hidden so they might actually last a while.
3. Never played homeworld so no idea
Did you even read the thread? Because people who's only knowledge of Halo extends to the game is getting fething annoying.
The one thing star wars or star trek factions have going for them is speed at least, and reliable speed at that... No need to mess about with shoddy and dangerous warp jumps when your faster than light travel is quite safe in comparison.
Providing said faction wasn't dropped right in the middle of a war zone/battle fleet/hugely protected sector of any other factions, they could prove quite difficult to track down and catch up to if they aren't stupid and fly head long into battle when they are woefully outgunned.
Don't forget incredibly fast innovation that would make the tau.look like tinkering children, high powered phaser, disruptor, quantum, multiphasic etc technology that is accurate enough for subsystem targeting.
Treks not and has never been a war based series, it's all about innovation, exploration and politics, imagine if Starfleet and the tau teamed up, with treks replicator tech and innovation for changing things on the fly mixed with the things like battlesuits, plasma tech etc.
The Human faction in the Bolo-verse. Concordiat of Man.
Armies of Titan sized Tanks whose firepower is measured in megatons per second. The Bolo tanks firepower is so great their transport space craft mount them to the outside hull to use the tanks weapons as their offensive weapons.
Heck the main weapons of the later marks of Bolo's were derived from the main guns of the spacecraft. Which are called Hellbores. Essentially a control fusion explosion directed in a plasma like blast.
they are measured in bore from 300cm (or larger) down to much smaller
Then there's the Hellrail. a railgun weapon with 90 megatons (per shot) built to kill starships. Plus some carry their own personal army of hover tanks and attack craft.
On the smaller scale they have tons of smaller guns to swat away infantry and armor up close. alongside that are rapid fire mortars, G2A/G2G missiles, howitzers and even thermonuclear weapons (restricted from inhabited worlds in their own lore, but Im guessing this is a no holds bared slug fest)
Some of them are even referred to as Planetary Siege Units.
defensivly their armor is capable of turning away their own or equivalent firepower. from super strong alloy armor, reactive armor, external and internal energy shields (that can convert energy form the impact into energy for the bolo's weapons). they also have ablative and ceramic panels to dissipate the heat of plasma weapons. plus there is layer upon layer of redundancy within a Bolo, from multiple fusion reactors, to banks of ionic batteries and multiple computer cores for the AI.
the Onboard AI of each Bolo allows them to operate together like a squad or platoon. each being intelligent in strategic and tactical combat. But they often are paired with a human officer, but can operate without one.
They are often organized into brigades of 24 units (imagine like 24 Emperor titans organized together). I don't know how many brigades are dedicated to a warzone though.
Not sure how long they would last, but it would be a lot of fireworks and a lot of damage to anything in the way. Not saying they would "win" (can't do that in someone else's forums ) but it would be a lot of carnage.
How well and how long would these race survive in the grimdark galaxy of 40k before getting killed off?
1. Flood are no threat to any competent scifi race. they only reason they are a threat in halo is because the Forerunners are unbelievably stupid. Their weapons and ships are horrible and they are so god damn arrogant it is annoying.
2. They don't really have the numbers to compete with the 40k races, but they are really good at staying hidden so they might actually last a while.
3. Never played homeworld so no idea
Did you even read the thread? Because people who's only knowledge of Halo extends to the game is getting fething annoying.
I have, and the ridiculous "Space magic entities" of these "stage 4 flood" means that even in my youth, when I was reading M:TG novels I was right in refusing to pick up a single Halo book.
I like the games and the story within the games, but they only show 3 stages in the games(Parasites, combat forms, and the gravemind); the shear jump from the gravemind to what you are talking about is ridiculous(I also had trouble buying the whole "The halo rings are weapons to destroy all life and starve the flood, but we are keeping a bunch of the flood in stasis here." plot aside from a poor plot point to introduce a new slightly harder/common enemy element to the late game).
Also there are parameter issues within this game(X vs 40k); are the imported races all teleported to 1 system, or are they teleported to their rough equivalent positions as a whole; or even is it a chapter/battalion/sept/hivefleet/whatever worth of the race with full gear and no supply issues?
Tyran wrote: Bolos would stomp anything on the ground, but would lost the shooting match against starships.
Actually I'm not so sure of that at all. Bolos not only put out tremendous firepower but they coordinate that firepower with horrifying precision. As someone said bolos arn't so much transported by other ships (though they certainly can be) as they have a large FTL engine strapped to them (which happens to hold other stuff). They are warships in their own right. If you think being in orbit will save you from their guns you're woefully mistaken and if you think hiding on the other side of the planet will do it think again. The bolo will likely go into orbit itself and snipe you in a surprise attack once it gets LOS. More over bolos are smart as hell and fight insanely tactically- I really do recommend reading some of the books. Bolos are incredibly resilient, accurate and mobile, sitting right on the edge of magitech. It's hard to articulate just how fearsome they are without sounding over the top.
Read some Bolo books. They're a good read and bolos make interesting characters (oh yes, they're sentient) in most of the books.
Even being a Star Trek fan, I'm not sure the Borg can develop much of a response to the chainsword, or three-hundred foot-long torpedoes launches by the half-dozen. We won't even mention Nova Cannons.
Tyran wrote: Bolos would stomp anything on the ground, but would lost the shooting match against starships.
Actually I'm not so sure of that at all. Bolos not only put out tremendous firepower but they coordinate that firepower with horrifying precision. As someone said bolos arn't so much transported by other ships (though they certainly can be) as they have a large FTL engine strapped to them (which happens to hold other stuff). They are warships in their own right. If you think being in orbit will save you from their guns you're woefully mistaken and if you think hiding on the other side of the planet will do it think again. The bolo will likely go into orbit itself and snipe you in a surprise attack once it gets LOS. More over bolos are smart as hell and fight insanely tactically- I really do recommend reading some of the books. Bolos are incredibly resilient, accurate and mobile, sitting right on the edge of magitech. It's hard to articulate just how fearsome they are without sounding over the top.
Read some Bolo books. They're a good read and bolos make interesting characters (oh yes, they're sentient) in most of the books.
I know that Bolos are practically spaceships, what I mean is that they lack the firepower to threaten 40k battleships. Megatons per second is great, it is immense for RL. But for 40k, where sustained fire from spaceships can even make a planet tear itself apart, it is simply not enough.
Okay. So far then we have the Bolo-verse on the ground, cause that's alot of firepower, (Orks would call it, "Not enough Dakka, but nearly there")
Lets find a Space borne rival to 40k. While Bolo's can kick ass in space, relative to a 40k battleship even a Bolo looks small and as im aware, the Macro cannons fire shells the size of small buildings (then theres the Lances, and torpedos and then some).
Engine of War wrote: Lets find a Space borne rival to 40k. While Bolo's can kick ass in space, relative to a 40k battleship even a Bolo looks small and as im aware, the Macro cannons fire shells the size of small buildings (then theres the Lances, and torpedos and then some).
Keep in mind the bolos are the tanks of the Concordiat, their version of baneblades. They have capital ships with appropriately scaled firepower.
frothy loins wrote: This is a great thread, swimming in the rage that is nerd fandom is a glorious thing. I'm bringing a kill team composed of Thanos, Darkseid, the Spectre (magics), Emma Frost (psycics), and the Hulk. Bring the noise.
The Orks would make the Hulk their new warmaster. WAUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!
Engine of War wrote: Okay. So far then we have the Bolo-verse on the ground, cause that's alot of firepower, (Orks would call it, "Not enough Dakka, but nearly there")
Lets find a Space borne rival to 40k. While Bolo's can kick ass in space, relative to a 40k battleship even a Bolo looks small and as im aware, the Macro cannons fire shells the size of small buildings (then theres the Lances, and torpedos and then some).
I can't think of one off the top of my head.
SW is a good rival if we go by the ICS and some other EU material. Also Starcraft depending on the sources, but they lack numbers. Aside of those you get either opponents far weaker ("Current" Halo, Mass Effect, etc.) or far stronger ("Ancient" Halo, the Culture, Strike Legion, Xeelee, Doctor Who, etc).
Engine of War wrote: Lets find a Space borne rival to 40k. While Bolo's can kick ass in space, relative to a 40k battleship even a Bolo looks small and as im aware, the Macro cannons fire shells the size of small buildings (then theres the Lances, and torpedos and then some).
Keep in mind the bolos are the tanks of the Concordiat, their version of baneblades. They have capital ships with appropriately scaled firepower.
IIRC the difference in firepower between a capital ship and a Bolo in the Boloverse isn't very big, meanwhile the difference between a Emperor Titan and a Battleship is immense.
Engine of War wrote: Okay. So far then we have the Bolo-verse on the ground, cause that's alot of firepower, (Orks would call it, "Not enough Dakka, but nearly there"
Lets find a Space borne rival to 40k. While Bolo's can kick ass in space, relative to a 40k battleship even a Bolo looks small and as im aware, the Macro cannons fire shells the size of small buildings (then theres the Lances, and torpedos and then some).
I can't think of one off the top of my head.
SW is a good rival if we go by the ICS and some other EU material. Also Starcraft depending on the sources, but they lack numbers. Aside of those you get either opponents far weaker ("Current" Halo, Mass Effect, etc.) or far stronger ("Ancient" Halo, the Culture, Strike Legion, Xeelee, Doctor Who, etc).
Engine of War wrote: Lets find a Space borne rival to 40k. While Bolo's can kick ass in space, relative to a 40k battleship even a Bolo looks small and as im aware, the Macro cannons fire shells the size of small buildings (then theres the Lances, and torpedos and then some).
Keep in mind the bolos are the tanks of the Concordiat, their version of baneblades. They have capital ships with appropriately scaled firepower.
IIRC the difference in firepower between a capital ship and a Bolo in the Boloverse isn't very big, meanwhile the difference between a Emperor Titan and a Battleship is immense.
The ICS is nothing compared to normal calcs for W40K. That simply allows them to actually dent their shields. The power of Star Wars comes from their maneuverability and being able to zip around unhindered when hyperspace routes are charted. But several hundred gigatons-Terratons >>> 200 Gigatons.
Tyran wrote: While the Protoss control a considerable part of the Galaxy (1/8 IIRC) their population is very small for that immense territory and is divided in hundreds of worlds, that is pitiful compared with the millions that the IoM controls.
That's a non-issue though. The IOM needs to be large in seize in order for it to have enough manpower to feed to the meat grinder. That’s how the imperium survives in 40K, by churning out troops and war material on a massive scale.
The Protoss way of making war is entirely different to that of the IOM. Seize is irrelevant.
The ICS is nothing compared to normal calcs for W40K. That simply allows them to actually dent their shields. The power of Star Wars comes from their maneuverability and being able to zip around unhindered when hyperspace routes are charted. But several hundred gigatons-Terratons >>> 200 Gigatons.
It is 200 gigatons for a turbo laser IIRC, and the Star Wars have many of those IIRC. But meh I don't really know much about SW so I really have no idea. What I do recall is that the biggest advantages of the GE over the IoM is, as you said, speed, size and industrial output.
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Redcruisair wrote: That's a non-issue though. The IOM needs to be large in seize in order for it to have enough manpower to feed to the meat grinder. That’s how the imperium survives in 40K, by churning out troops and war material on a massive scale.
The Protoss way of making war is entirely different to that of the IOM. Seize is irrelevant.
Size is relevant because it helps determine the industrial output of the whole empire (Unless you have a Forerunner or better industry ofc) Also the fact that when you visit Protoss planets in the game they seem to give a vibe of being more outposts than anything else.
For Space based opponents, there are the Shivans (Descent Freespace).
A single Shivan vessel can destroy a planet, and a group of them can destroy a star. Additionally, it requires specialized weaponry to pierce their shields. It's quite conceivable that not all War40k fleet based weapons could work on them (as weapons known to be able to pierce even the toughest of known shields fail to make any headway against them, requiring all new weapons to be invented to tackle them, and still basically have the human/vasudan's hats handed to them). They also have vastly superior FTL drives to most of 40k's races. It is known that they killed off at least one milky way conquering faction 8,000 years ago, and it is suspected that they have wiped out many more throughout history.
Not unlike the Necrons in their 'unknowable/unkillable' creatures from beyond. The Shivans simply leave or are not truly beaten in either game (the first game involves stopping one cruiser that has discovered the location of Earth, and the second on finding some way to 'trap' the 'known' fleet, by collapsing known jump nodes, hopefully slowing them down only to earn a completely pyrrhic victory).
Redcruisair wrote: This is the case. So again, for the Protoss, seize does not matter.
Protoss never showed that level of industrial output. And before you say it, nothing suggest that RTS building times are cannon.
Sure nothing beats the IOM in industrial output, it’s after all a big empire besieged from all sides by countless enemies, and is therefore in dire need of, well, anything really.
Where the problems arise for IOM, is in its logistical faultiness. A shipment of lasguns is produced in the factories, loaded on a suitable spacecraft and sent on a dangerous journey through the warp, then finally arriving late to its destination only to then find out that some daff clerk got the coordinates wrong and sent the ship on a fruitless venture. By the time this has happened, the Protoss have already warped in that brand new carrier fleet and then proceeded to scourge worlds clean of xenophobic humans.
Protoss Warp technology makes more than enough up for any lack of industrial output. Protoss can focus its forces where it’s needed with accurate precision and no delay. Also, what is the point of even discussing this? Plenty of factions with little to no industrial output have managed to beat the imperials. Hell some faction’s weapon arsenal consists solely of stolen imperial goods. I will repeat myself again, industrial capacity has no bearing on whether or not Protoss can thrive in 40k. It’s a mood point.
Would Protoss ships be able to handle the planet defense systems (just curious)? Also hey! Us Chaos do have our own forgeworlds as well! (and orks loot all!)
Redcruisair wrote: This is the case. So again, for the Protoss, seize does not matter.
Protoss never showed that level of industrial output. And before you say it, nothing suggest that RTS building times are cannon.
Sure nothing beats the IOM in industrial output, it’s after all a big empire besieged from all sides by countless enemies, and is therefore in dire need of, well, anything really.
There are plenty of factions in sci-fi that beat the Imperium in industrial output, starting with the Galactic Empire from SW.
Protoss Warp technology makes more than enough up for any lack of industrial output. Protoss can focus its forces where it’s needed with accurate precision and no delay.
True.
Also, what is the point of even discussing this? Plenty of factions with little to no industrial output have managed to beat the imperials. Hell some faction’s weapon arsenal consists solely of stolen imperial goods. I will repeat myself again, industrial capacity has no bearing on whether or not Protoss can thrive in 40k. It’s a mood point.
And the Protoss are going to start stealing Imperial goods? lol
What I have been trying to say is that the Protoss lack enough numbers to survive if they attract enough attention. A Carrier is a good match for most Imperial ships, but how many Carriers does the Protoss have?
Although I guess that the Protoss could try to survive like the Tau.
Honestly the flood can be a huge threat. By the time the Imperium arrives to exterminate them they would have spread themselves extremely fast. As we know the Imperium can take a long ass time to react and send stuff. They can take over ships to. Doesn't matter how big usually to get them to new inhabited planet. Rinse and repeat. Unlike Tyranids they don't need biomass to stay alive or awake for long periods of time.
The Precursors (made the flood as revenge against the Forerunner or as a failsafe) or the Forerunner (when unscathed by Flood) would do damn well to.
StarTrotter wrote: Would Protoss ships be able to handle the planet defense systems (just curious)?
That’s a difficult question to answer. We don’t really know how effective imperial weaponry is at penetrating Protoss plasma shields. The planet is most likely doomed without a fleet for protection, though.
Tyran wrote: What I have been trying to say is that the Protoss lack enough numbers to survive if they attract enough attention.
How much attention do you think the collective factions of 40k can afford spending on the Protoss, though? The IOM already has it hands full. Chaos is not really concerned with anything other than warring against the IOM. Eldar and Protoss probably makes for better allies than enemies.
Only the occasional Ork Whaaag and Tyranid invasion trespassing on Protoss space could be troublesome for the Protoss. Both of those scenarios the Tau have experienced and conquered. And remember, Tau is the race the 40k community have the lowest opinion of.
There is also the problem of locating the Protoss first. Which is nearly impossible considering the nomadic nature of the Protoss race. Also, most conflicts involving the Protoss would most likely be the ones they themselves have initiated (in true Eldar fashion.)
Tyran wrote: A Carrier is a good match for most Imperial ships, but how many Carriers does the Protoss have?
We don’t know. The total number of carriers in existence, and how fast such ships can be produced for that matter, has never been explained. All I know is that carriers form the backbone of the Protoss fleet. Anything else is guestimates.
Tyran wrote: Although I guess that the Protoss could try to survive like the Tau.
Actually thinking about it, both the Systems Commonwealth and the Magog from Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda would at the very least make a huge dent in 40k universe.
(Nurgle why ya gotta be so creative in your diseases)
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it's so beautiful.
