This is a doozey. Long live the swarm. No formation restrictions.
FI -
Tervi, Terma x3 broods - Spawning tervi must reroll 1s.
FII -
Prime, 3x War broods - 18" synapse
FIII - (wow)
Flyrant, Crone, 2x Harpy, 3x Garg broods - Garg have Objective Secured (controls objective even when enemy scoring unit is in range of that objective), Garg have Endless Swarm (4+ goes back into ongoing reserves, same everything)
FVI -
Exo, Bio x3 Broods, 1Warr Brood (biocann) - Unis in formation within 12" of Warriors can reroll scatter, also Pinning
FV -
Horma x3 broods, Terma x2 (or 3 depending which version you download) broods, Warr brood, - Endless Swarm
PrinceRaven wrote: Wow, that third formation is absolutely awesome.
The 4th one essentially giving us 2 extra Heavy Support slots is nice too.
Actually, more, since each unit of Biov is a separate unit that can add 2 more. So really, 4 HS and 1 troop.
Edit - Also, rule for the 1st formation contains the option for the 30terma tax for a troopTervigon but it doesn't use "detachment" language, it uses "army", so it might be possible to use this formation to buy another Tervi for our troop allotment that also rerolls 1s. So, if you just love tervigons, you can spend 120 + 120 points in two terma squads in this formation to buy the formation Tervi as troop, and another in our primary detachment as troop, and one more 40p tervi squad to complete the primary detachment restrictions. I'm sure this will be a source of contention.
Good formations all around. I can't wait to see it for myself.
Consider this thought, as well - if 7th edition allows out flankers to assault again, the lictors and genestealers from RL I could see some serious play as well.
PrinceRaven wrote: Wow, that third formation is absolutely awesome.
The 4th one essentially giving us 2 extra Heavy Support slots is nice too.
Actually, more, since each unit of Biov is a separate unit that can add 2 more. So really, 4 HS and 1 troop.
Edit - Also, rule for the 1st formation contains the option for the 30terma tax for a troopTervigon but it doesn't use "detachment" language, it uses "army", so it might be possible to use this formation to buy another Tervi for our troop allotment that also rerolls 1s. So, if you just love tervigons, you can spend 120 + 120 points in two terma squads in this formation to buy the formation Tervi as troop, and another in our primary detachment as troop, and one more 40p tervi squad to complete the primary detachment restrictions. I'm sure this will be a source of contention.
Why not just make one brood 30x strong so the required tervigon is a troop and be done with it? Then it's just an 80 pt tax to make the tervigon reroll 1's.
Well, the idea would be to get a second tervigon that rerolls 1s in its spawning in your primary detachment. You'd end up paying 40 more points overall and still have room for two flyrants + HS and whatever else you want.
Wowza. Kinda makes up for the lacklustre codex and inability to get allies in a way with all the options, but terrible in the sense that they didn't just include it to begin with and you have to pay for it separately.
*sigh* Dem's the breaks for Nids players. At least you're getting off better than CSM, they only have the Black Legion Supplement so far which pales in comparison to the swarm of dataslates Tyranids have been getting.
citadel wrote: Well, the idea would be to get a second tervigon that rerolls 1s in its spawning in your primary detachment. You'd end up paying 40 more points overall and still have room for two flyrants + HS and whatever else you want.
Yea but that seems to stretch from RAI. Data sheets are currently contentious enough already without crossing that line. I'd just be happy enough with one super tervigon honestly.
Also I haven't done the math but doesn't re rolling 1s increase your chances of rolling doubles?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grimskul wrote: Wowza. Kinda makes up for the lacklustre codex and inability to get allies in a way with all the options, but terrible in the sense that they didn't just include it to begin with and you have to pay for it.
*sigh* Dem's the breaks for Nids players. At least you're getting off better than CSM, they only have the Black Legion Supplement so far which pales in comparison to the swarm of dataslates Tyranids have been getting.
Eh. I'm less pessimistic about it - the way I see it no other codex includes formations so the fact that tyranids have these extra ways to play is just bonus in my eyes.
3 dakka flyrant
4 crone
2 harpy
3 scoring Garg units
2 scoring Terma units
or some variation thereof, with 10 points leftover
@tetris yeah, that was the source of contention I was mentioning, but RAW it is possible. I imagine any TO would not allow it. And yeah, increase chance of rolling doubles, but I have gotten trip 1s and double 1s on my intial rolls before so having a chance to NOT do that ever again is pretty awesome.
I'm not a big fan of tervigon anyway, so just 1 outflanking in the primary detachment is just fine for me.
citadel wrote: Well, the idea would be to get a second tervigon that rerolls 1s in its spawning in your primary detachment. You'd end up paying 40 more points overall and still have room for two flyrants + HS and whatever else you want.
I may be an old fuddy duddy....but I read that to be; One 30x Brood lets you take a Terv as a "Troop". The Formation lets that Terv be a "super-Terv".
If you take a second 30x Brood, you can take another Terv as Troop, but it does not get the Formation special rule....?
citadel wrote: Well, the idea would be to get a second tervigon that rerolls 1s in its spawning in your primary detachment. You'd end up paying 40 more points overall and still have room for two flyrants + HS and whatever else you want.
I may be an old fuddy duddy....but I read that to be; One 30x Brood lets you take a Terv as a "Troop". The Formation lets that Terv be a "super-Terv".
If you take a second 30x Brood, you can take another Terv as Troop, but it does not get the Formation special rule....?
Ah yes. My bad. Must have missed that in my inspirational haste. Only one with the 1s rerollable, Thanks for the catch.
It also reads like it's being written by someone who has a proper vision of what Tyranids can be. I mean, just read the passage on the preview page describing Leviathan looking down on Satys like a cold, ineffable god. It's really good stuff.
Why the Codex itself is so bland and so lacking in new material (other than Shadowbrink) when they can produce this sort of quality is beyond me...
Xyptc wrote: Why the Codex itself is so bland and so lacking in new material (other than Shadowbrink) when they can produce this sort of quality is beyond me...
"Let's sell them a $60 rush-job then make them buy all the good stuff that should have been in there for $54."
Wait, 3 Biovore BROODS? Up to 9 Biovores and an Excocrine outside of FoC, leaving 3 Heavy Support slots free for Dakkafexes and Mawlocs? Sign me up!
Tervigons re-rolling spawn rolls of 1 will pretty much be an auto-include for me, too, since I alread roll with the required models in my standard lists.
Skyblight looks a bit mad, too. I'm gonna need me some new gribblies. Lots of them. My bank manager is going to hate me...
Anyone done the maths yet on the Tervs that re-roll 1s to spawn? Do we have a revised average number of gants per battle? I am assuming that the chance to get doubles is unaffected (you will reroll double 1s, but might sometimes reroll a 1 and end up with a duplicate of another number you already rolled), but I've not actually done the maths for this part either...
Abandon wrote: Wow at this rate the next slate will be giving us 'Assault Tunnels'.
With the current theme of vanguard (Invasion) and then swarm (Predation), I'm expecting the final dataslate to be based on the Consumption phase of invasion.
Yep folks! That means formations based around Haruspex, Pyrovores and Rippers! Yay!
Abandon wrote: Wow at this rate the next slate will be giving us 'Assault Tunnels'.
With the current theme of vanguard (Invasion) and then swarm (Predation), I'm expecting the final dataslate to be based on the Consumption phase of invasion.
Yep folks! That means formations based around Haruspex, Pyrovores and Rippers! Yay!
Broods of 5 Pyrovores emerging from tunnels in the middle of the enemy army ala Trygon Tunnels unleashing large numbers of S5/AP4 template doom could actually be pretty cool...
Xyptc wrote: Why the Codex itself is so bland and so lacking in new material (other than Shadowbrink) when they can produce this sort of quality is beyond me...
"Let's sell them a $60 rush-job then make them buy all the good stuff that should have been in there for $54."
Yup, true, and it is really irritating.
But if you're Eldar, allying yourself with Dark Eldar for The Baron, you still need to shell out for the second Codex.
Ian Sturrock wrote: Anyone done the maths yet on the Tervs that re-roll 1s to spawn? Do we have a revised average number of gants per battle? I am assuming that the chance to get doubles is unaffected (you will reroll double 1s, but might sometimes reroll a 1 and end up with a duplicate of another number you already rolled), but I've not actually done the maths for this part either...
Maths is here and looks correct. Average number spawned is close to identical, but it reduces the variation; you will probably get fewer spawns that are higher in number .
[quote author="@nameless" source="/post/777736/thread" timestamp="1393636561"][quote source="/post/777712/thread" timestamp="1393633661" author="@zookie"]Incubator Node
1 Tervigon
3 Termagant broods
Special rule: Tervigons must reroll 1’s when spawning
I wanted to see what this does to the number. My first thought is that you are going to be spawning more on the first turn, but you'll get an increased likelihood of failing to spawn again. After running the numbers...
Comparing this to the last one, we see a strange dip at around 19 gants. This is because 18 being the maximum amount that can be spawned in one turn happens more often since you're re-roll 1s.
As expected. You will spawn very slightly less broods and gants.
There is one benefit this brings. It will lower the number very small gant squads. That right there may make the change worth it. You're still going to have to take some more troops (2 warrior broods maybe).
Ian Sturrock wrote: Anyone done the maths yet on the Tervs that re-roll 1s to spawn? Do we have a revised average number of gants per battle? I am assuming that the chance to get doubles is unaffected (you will reroll double 1s, but might sometimes reroll a 1 and end up with a duplicate of another number you already rolled), but I've not actually done the maths for this part either...
A standard tervigon will spawn 10.5 gants per cycle on average, with a 44% chance of running out each turn.
An incubator node tervigon will spawn 11.8 gants per cycle on average, with a 50% chance of running out each turn.
Personally, I don't think of 'gants per battle because she's usually dead before too long.
I'm at work and don't have my book to hand, is it possible to fit the Skyblight swarm alongside 3 Crones and 2 Flyrants while still occupying all of the necessary Troop slots within a 2000 point constraint?
Enceladus wrote: I'm at work and don't have my book to hand, is it possible to fit the Skyblight swarm alongside 3 Crones and 2 Flyrants while still occupying all of the necessary Troop slots within a 2000 point constraint?
Yup. The best you can get is something like 3 Flyrants, 2 Harpies, 4 Hive Crones, 60 Gargoyles and 20 Termagants. I think this setup is exactly 2000 points.
Enceladus wrote: I'm at work and don't have my book to hand, is it possible to fit the Skyblight swarm alongside 3 Crones and 2 Flyrants while still occupying all of the necessary Troop slots within a 2000 point constraint?
Yup. The best you can get is something like 3 Flyrants, 2 Harpies, 4 Hive Crones, 60 Gargoyles and 20 Termagants. I think this setup is exactly 2000 points.
Oh wow. I see many scared people who forgot to bring Skyfire in my future... lol.
Enceladus wrote: I'm at work and don't have my book to hand, is it possible to fit the Skyblight swarm alongside 3 Crones and 2 Flyrants while still occupying all of the necessary Troop slots within a 2000 point constraint?
You might have to run Skyblight alongside 2 FLyrants and 1 Crone, not 3, giving 7 FMC.
From memory, minimum size is 230 flyrant, 435 IIRC for three flyers, 270 for three squads of 15 gargs, making 935.
Two Crones and Two flyrants makes 310 plus 460, total 770.
You will need two troops for the main FOC, electrogrub Tervigon plus 30 termagants would be 325. SO you'd be around 30 points over for Two Crones and two flyrants in the main force. Of course you could elect to run warriors etc as troops.
We regularly play 1500, which would leave only 195 for troops if we run 3 flyrants, 2 harpies, 1 crone plus minimum garg sizes. Warriors or warriors plus termagants might be the best solution.
Having spent the afternoon thinking about it, Skyblight is too good not to take. Those scoring, respawning Gargoyles along with out-of-FoC Flyrant are just what the doctor ordered.
Oh, wait... I don't own any flyers. This is gonna hurt my wallet.
SBG wrote:I am buying this dataslate, no questions asked. The only problem will be convincing my wife that another $1000 in models is a good idea.
Any ideas? Lol...
Well let us see...are you particularly...religeous? Do you have trouble defining the lines between reality and fantasy? If so, the ever popular "diety/the emperor wanted me to do this!" excuse may work wonders. If not, the ever present, "Honey, I need an advance on my allowance." option is there. Realistically, I recommend you just take the easy road. Space out the purchases so it is all not at once. I give myself $20 every check to do with as I wish, and you rapidly learn just easy this hobby is to work with.
Abandon wrote: Wow at this rate the next slate will be giving us 'Assault Tunnels'.
With the current theme of vanguard (Invasion) and then swarm (Predation), I'm expecting the final dataslate to be based on the Consumption phase of invasion.
Yep folks! That means formations based around Haruspex, Pyrovores and Rippers! Yay!
Broods of 5 Pyrovores emerging from tunnels in the middle of the enemy army ala Trygon Tunnels unleashing large numbers of S5/AP4 template doom could actually be pretty cool...
Don't get my hope up. I like Pyrovores, and that would just make them too good to pass up.
Also...you forgot Hive Guard being in there. A dataslate devoted to the time in the invasion where most opposition is gone and the rapid devouring of the planet's biomass has begin, coupled with the massive digestion pools, spore chimneys, and valuable capillary towers that transfer all the goodness to the fleet overhead, and you forget the Hive Guard that protect it all? Unbelievable.
Given how out of left field and surprising nids have been... Seemingly defying a lot of rumours I wouldn't be surprised to see some mid specific fortifications similar to the ones in altar of war missions for the 3rd data slate.
OT I really like the skyblight as I think it will work well with my snake army of mawlocs, trygons and ravenors.
Now got to go back to look at my list to see what fits. I have some time to list build as I currently own one crone and no harpies... Plenty of gargs and enough flyrants!
The total is 1995, and the goal is to deep strike your Trygon Primes and make use of their Tunnels to place your respawns right back in the thick of it. Small broods of Strangler-Warriors camp the home objectives.
Endless swarm is 3 each terms and horms - the preview had a typo that's been corrected in the final ebook.
That said, I recommend adrenal glands on hormagaunt broods instead of toxin sacs, because I like being able to damage vehicles like rhinos and wave serpents with them. If a wraith knight is causing you trouble I recommend using the points you saved by swapping down to adrenals to buy a reaper of obliterax for one of your trygon primes.
tetrisphreak wrote: Endless swarm is 3 each terms and horms - the preview had a typo that's been corrected in the final ebook.
That said, I recommend adrenal glands on hormagaunt broods instead of toxin sacs, because I like being able to damage vehicles like rhinos and wave serpents with them. If a wraith knight is causing you trouble I recommend using the points you saved by swapping down to adrenals to buy a reaper of obliterax for one of your trygon primes.
I've got the eBook version open now, definitely says 2 Termagant broods.
Incidentally, it still says pre-order but is actually available for download.
Definitely says 2 Termagant broods.
I sense errata in our near future!
Three broods wouldn't be a problem though. If anything, I think it's better. The broods only recycle on a 4+, and that's another chance with another brood...
One thought I've had is with the Endless Swarm you have an incentive to put biomods on the gaunts. Because they pop back "as was" the cost is easier to justify. I am thinking that Hormagaunts with Toxin sacks just might make a come back...
pinecone77 wrote: One thought I've had is with the Endless Swarm you have an incentive to put biomods on the gaunts. Because they pop back "as was" the cost is easier to justify. I am thinking that Hormagaunts with Toxin sacks just might make a come back...
Yup, thinking that with Gargoyles, too. Upgrade them, and use the upgraded versions more aggressively, while the vanilla ones camp on objectives.
SBG wrote: I am buying this dataslate, no questions asked. The only problem will be convincing my wife that another $1000 in models is a good idea.
Any ideas? Lol...
Just forgot to mention it to her? Spend an offsetting $1,000 on a nice ring?
I think we have a winner! Good idea. The shiny things are very distracting.
So far it looks like I'll need another few boxes of hormagaunts, gargoyles, and at least 4 crone kits. I'm going to have to scavenge up some tyrant wings, though - can't justify 2 more flyrant kits when I have 4 pewter walkrants.
I'm even more excited for the dataslates than I was for the codex, and that's pretty excited! Endless Swarm is back!
See, instead of fancy upgraded 'gants and 'gaunts, I figure that raw numbers could be the way to go.
3 units of 10 Hormagaunts, 2 units of Termagants, and a baseline unit of Warriors is 320, 360 if you need the third Termagant as some lists say.
Two of those would be 640/720
FOUR of those would be 1280/1440.
120 respawning Hormagaunts and 80 respawning Termagants, backed by 12 Warriors, still leaves points for other stuff. And, you know 24 scoring units on top of your FOC.
I ran the numbers but the post didn't seem to be pasted properly.
I wanted to see what this does to the number. My first thought is that you are going to be spawning more on the first turn, but you'll get an increased likelihood of failing to spawn again. After running the numbers...
One thing you can see here is that the number of 1 brood spawned went up by 6%, so that confirmed one of my theories.
Comparing this to the last one, we see a strange dip at around 19 gants. This is because 18 being the maximum amount that can be spawned in one turn happens more often since you're re-roll 1s.
Finally:
As expected. You will spawn very slightly less broods and gants.
There is one benefit this brings. It will lower the number very small gant squads. That right there may make the change worth it. You're still going to have to take some more troops (2 warrior broods maybe).
NamelessBard wrote: I ran the numbers but the post didn't seem to be pasted properly.
I wanted to see what this does to the number. My first thought is that you are going to be spawning more on the first turn, but you'll get an increased likelihood of failing to spawn again. After running the numbers...
One thing you can see here is that the number of 1 brood spawned went up by 6%, so that confirmed one of my theories.
Comparing this to the last one, we see a strange dip at around 19 gants. This is because 18 being the maximum amount that can be spawned in one turn happens more often since you're re-roll 1s.
Finally:
As expected. You will spawn very slightly less broods and gants.
There is one benefit this brings. It will lower the number very small gant squads. That right there may make the change worth it. You're still going to have to take some more troops (2 warrior broods maybe).
NamelessBard wrote: There is one benefit this brings. It will lower the number very small gant squads. That right there may make the change worth it. You're still going to have to take some more troops (2 warrior broods maybe).
The tradeoff is actually quite complicated. Tradeoff of bigger spawns/more reliable long term spawning.
If the tervigon is likely to die, you might not care as much about the increased odds of running out. From my experience, people are more likely to try and kill the tervigon when it still has spawning capacity... so it might be worth it to try and pump out a few more bodies early.
The other issue is that - in general - a big spawn early can potentially achieve more 'value' than any spawn at all on turn 5-6-7. It really depends on when you start spawning gants. Do you do it from turn one, or do you wait until the tervigon is a little closer?
A standard tervigon has a 69% chance to run out after two spawns, and an 83% chance to run out after 3.
An incubator node tervigon has a 74% chance to run out after two spawns, and an 87% chance to run out after 3.
So the dataslate tervigon is (in my opinion) marginally more likely to run out, and produces a couple more gants, which is worth it. Personally, I don't feel you can rely on a tervigon to either (a) be alive and (b) still have spawning capacity after turn 4.
The major drawback, in my mind, is that the incubator node tervigon is not scoring (as far as I can tell). That's huge.
Actually it doesn't even need to be in the formation. The scuttling swarm says in the army not detachment. This mean that you could take min squads in the formation, a thirty man gant squad in the primary detachment. This allows the tervigon to be scoring and you can outflank with those gants using hive commander.
Verified by GW Digital Editions - the terma squad is 3, not 2. It will be amended this week.
Quote from their FB page from a poster-
Awesome release Eddie! I think you have all sufficiently pleased Hive Commanders everywhere. One question though - there is a discrepancy regarding Endless Swarm between the iTunes version and the eBook version through black library - one shows 3 Terma squads, and the other shows 2. Do you have an answer to this, or know when one will be available for download?
Games Workshop: Digital Editions Hi Nathan,
It is three squads, the eBook will be amended this week.
Apologies for any confusion.
Aww. Sadness, but not a big deal. Core Swarm is then 360, 375 if you buff the Warriors a touch. So, 720/750 for two Endless Swarms. If you play 1500 like we do locally, that still leaves 750 for the rest of your force, with 60 each 'gants and 'gaunts hurling themselves up the board, then returning lategame on a 4+ to secure your home objectives.
Eight flying monstrous creatures at 1750 sounds pretty terrifying.
It sounds terrifying but I fear it may also be terrifyingly fragile as well. Don't forget that five of them are T5 with a 4+ save so grounding them is going to hurt a lot. Still, will be interested to see how it performs at 1750.
Currently I'm waiting to put my 7 monstrous creatures on foot at 1500 into the field (fething league got me a bye in the first round because my opponent didn't actually have the points to play!)
Question: Can units taken in the formation be used to satisfy the force org requirements? Such as, could Death Leaper from his assassin brood be used to fill your HQ requirement? Or is this not allowed since the formations seem to be outside the normal FOC?
omerakk wrote: Question: Can units taken in the formation be used to satisfy the force org requirements? Such as, could Death Leaper from his assassin brood be used to fill your HQ requirement? Or is this not allowed since the formations seem to be outside the normal FOC?
They are completely separate detachments from your primary detachment, so you must still include an HQ and 2 Troops units for a legal army.
I'm going to build the standard meta, plus 3 heavies.
Flyrant
Tervigon
30 Gants
Venomthrope
Flyrant
Harpy
Harpy
Crone
10 Gargs
10 Gargs
10 Gargs
Exocrine
Exocrine
Tyranofex
All the ground gribbles running straight for the enemy, while the flying Circus waits to pounce...Harpies- while not as strong as Crones, still bring spore mines to the table...
Well, I was saving this for my own personal hive fleet, but in honor of the new Skyblight formation and the rest of the year featuring the skies turning black with the wings of Tyranid, I do hereby bequeath to you all the name of your collective Hive Fleets.
Not-so-Gentlebeings of the Hivemind, you may now welcome Hive Fleet Ziz.
(Behemoth and Leviathon are the Biblical giants of the land and sea, but Ziz is the giant of the air, an oft-overlooked Biblical creature who gets, like, three lines in the whole arrangement. While Behemoth came from the side in a great force and Leviathon stretched its many-tendril'd way up from below, Hive Fleet Ziz rules the skies and strikes from above the Galactic Rim. In the name of Ziz, go forth and devour!)
Wakshaani wrote: Well, I was saving this for my own personal hive fleet, but in honor of the new Skyblight formation and the rest of the year featuring the skies turning black with the wings of Tyranid, I do hereby bequeath to you all the name of your collective Hive Fleets.
Not-so-Gentlebeings of the Hivemind, you may now welcome Hive Fleet Ziz.
(Behemoth and Leviathon are the Biblical giants of the land and sea, but Ziz is the giant of the air, an oft-overlooked Biblical creature who gets, like, three lines in the whole arrangement. While Behemoth came from the side in a great force and Leviathon stretched its many-tendril'd way up from below, Hive Fleet Ziz rules the skies and strikes from above the Galactic Rim. In the name of Ziz, go forth and devour!)
Right now I'm going with Vesuvius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesuvius). Initially it was because I had red carapaces, and so my hoards resembled the flow of Lava. Now, it is doubly significant, because just like volcanic ash, the Wings of my 'nids will turn day into a very, very long night.
I think you need to support any formations list with elements from a normal army.
I also reckon, past lower point games of 1000-1500, getting larger squads of 15-20 gargoyles will be worthwhile; as otherwise they will still evaporate upon returning.
Total: 1850 points, 15 TL Large blasts with Pinning, 5 Scoring units, 3 Venoms for Shroud, 2 Crones for Anti air / mech.
Wow those really abuse FOC. 9 Fast Attack, and 12 Heavy Support respectively. Its almost like being Tau.
Here is the problem I have. I like your idea for the first list. However A. it is over in points.. B. If your flyrants get popped that whole army is dead in the water. You are All running just flyrants for an entire army of synapse. You gave them just three targets to bring the whole thing down on itself with loss of synapse. C. Three more chances to earn slay the Warlord. I don't know about you folks but the idea is not to give your opponent the opportunity to earn points.
Second I'm not sure if everyone realizes but those troops you think die and and come back from reserve have to be the entire Unit before that can happen. So if I'm Tau or Marines I am killing all of your gargoyles but 1 and then your stuck.
Your second list I didn't run the points cost but can someone confirm that your can have multiple formations of the Biovore broods because I thought it was only 1 formation of 3 biovores?
Still needs some tweaking but I like where you're headed
Here is the problem I have. I like your idea for the first list. However A. it is over in points.. B. If your flyrants get popped that whole army is dead in the water. You are All running just flyrants for an entire army of synapse. You gave them just three targets to bring the whole thing down on itself with loss of synapse. C. Three more chances to earn slay the Warlord. I don't know about you folks but the idea is not to give your opponent the opportunity to earn points.
How do they get "three more chances to earn slay the Warlord"? You only get 1 Warlord.
I agree synapse is an issue there, though. It's probably worth dropping a Crone and upgrading the Termagant broods to Warriors with a Barbed Strangler. Any extra points can be used to beef up Gargoyle broods.
Second I'm not sure if everyone realizes but those troops you think die and and come back from reserve have to be the entire Unit before that can happen. So if I'm Tau or Marines I am killing all of your gargoyles but 1 and then your stuck.
If you ever want to recycle an almost-dead unit, just charge it into something. Even if it survives overwatch, low numbers of guants don't last long in melee and you can (maybe) bring the unit back next turn.
Your second list I didn't run the points cost but can someone confirm that your can have multiple formations of the Biovore broods because I thought it was only 1 formation of 3 biovores?
Still needs some tweaking but I like where you're headed
The formation says "3 Biovores" but doesn't make it clear if they have to be in the same brood or are taken as individual units. There's nothing to stop you taking multiple formations, though.
Total: 1850 points, 15 TL Large blasts with Pinning, 5 Scoring units, 3 Venoms for Shroud, 2 Crones for Anti air / mech.
Wow those really abuse FOC. 9 Fast Attack, and 12 Heavy Support respectively. Its almost like being Tau.
Here is the problem I have. I like your idea for the first list. However A. it is over in points.. B. If your flyrants get popped that whole army is dead in the water. You are All running just flyrants for an entire army of synapse. You gave them just three targets to bring the whole thing down on itself with loss of synapse. C. Three more chances to earn slay the Warlord. I don't know about you folks but the idea is not to give your opponent the opportunity to earn points.
Second I'm not sure if everyone realizes but those troops you think die and and come back from reserve have to be the entire Unit before that can happen. So if I'm Tau or Marines I am killing all of your gargoyles but 1 and then your stuck.
Your second list I didn't run the points cost but can someone confirm that your can have multiple formations of the Biovore broods because I thought it was only 1 formation of 3 biovores?
Still needs some tweaking but I like where you're headed
A) does the formation cost more than the units inside it? Because if not, that list is 1850 points just like I posted. In the spoilers I added points costs for each unit.
B) I'm not sure you understand synapse. You still have to fail a leadership test for it to take effect. All of the FMC's are LD 10. And then the effects generally aren't that bad. Gargoyles and Gaunts will fail some of the time, and mostly not be able to assault. It was my thinking that with 3 Flyrants I could manage to keep 1 alive.
C) I'm sure you don't understand how slay the warlord works. Only 1 of the 3 flyrants is the warlord. Not all 3 of them. So there is still only 1 chance for the enemy to get Slay the warlord.
2nd) I'm thinking you are missing the point on Gargoyles. They aren't there to do damage. They are there to hold objectives. 1 Gargoyle holds an objective just as good as 10.
It probably isn't actually a list I would run if for no other reason than Crone / Harpies are freaking expensive ($80). Most likely I would drop a Crone for some Shrikes to provide fast synapse.
As an addition to the post above - if my opponent refuses to kill the final model in one of my scoring units, then I'll park that model on an objective and win the game with it. Win win scenario.
Yeah I think the first one is over by 30 points. You could drop 1 crone for room to breathe.
I also understand the synapse roll. I just try to eliminate those risks of having to take that roll.
Also Tetris I agree! I thought of that 2 after the fact. If you post them on objectives they most certainly will have to be killed otherwise it will be contested.
I personally like the idea of combining the 2 options and running a Prime somewhere in between. The prime would also save an extra 100 in points which could be used toward a crone. So run 2 Flyants and a Prime and make the Prime Warlord and park it somewhere cozy. So now you'll have the Biovores and Crones which will help bring the enemies out of the corners. And you'll have the Flyrants for going in after to pick them apart.
Possibly adding a Tervigon for the extra roll on 1 in the troop slot. Or some 195 point equivlant.
This makes me want to cry and sell my Dakka Fexes. My head hurts from the possibilities!
Does anyone see where I'm coming from here?
Can someone bring to light the army in my beautiful mind?
The sky blight list points are right and the list is 1850. Not sure where you think the extra 30 points are coming from...
As to triple hive tyrants - you're actually protecting your warlord more by adding additional threats to the table. You can play the 2 non warlord flyrants more aggressively while keeping the important one hidden or only engaging light targets. As a tactic I think that would be a good list.
I'm happy that I'll be able to field 2 flyrants and a Swarmlord without going double FOC.
Artillary Node
Exocrine
Biovore
Biovore
Biovore
3 Warriors (can attach to Prime to boost)
Sky Blight Swarm
Tyrant Wings (TL Devourers)
Crone
Harpy
Harpy
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
And your right Tetris 1850 I had the troops cost for 30 not 20 which I'm used to.
Also this list may or may not be on the money. I don't have my book in front of me..
NOOOOOOO! 100 gants is bad enough, with those stupid flying bases and moving them around it would be a total nightmare. In about 3 hours with setting up you'd get about 2 turns in so not really viable.
You'd be better off with the 10 strong broods to be honest they are there to reclaim and/or recycle.
Strange that all the options were all pretty good apart from the re-roll 1s on tervigons which seems really pointless. Re-roll 1 dice or reroll 1 double a game makes it worth looking at, but rerolling 1s really makes no difference at all and possibly increases the chance of that double. Pinning biovores does have the downside of being forced to take an exocrine though, the warriors is a squad you'd happily take anyway.
I look at the Living Artillery Node the opposite way, I'll happily take an Exocrine and Biovores, the Warrior brood is the tax to me.
Biovores are already Pinning btw.
... meant to say pinning, twin-linked bivores .... The 3 warriors and BS for 100 points is a useful unit in a footslogging list for synapse cover and being a scoring unit. I am looking at whether sticking them on the bastion roof with a quadgun and giving synapse to the biovores behind is something I can use.
they are a Synapse unit, but they are also double the price of a Zonathrope and not as useful.
Still twin-linked Biovores are awesome. what happens when you twin-link a multiple barrage anyway? *goes to look up rules*
PrinceRaven wrote: they are a Synapse unit, but they are also double the price of a Zonathrope and not as useful.
Still twin-linked Biovores are awesome. what happens when you twin-link a multiple barrage anyway? *goes to look up rules*
Every scatter die gets a reroll, and hits can be placed between models to catch as many as possible as long as 1 point of the pie touches the lead shot.
The super scoring gargoyles and TL biovores turned nids from a bottom tier to top tier codex overnight.
PrinceRaven wrote: they are a Synapse unit, but they are also double the price of a Zonathrope and not as useful.
I dunno, 3 Warriors = 19" Synapse bubble vs 2 Zoanthropes providing 15 1/2", so a bigger area, and 9 wounds vs 4. Admitedly, the 3++ is better than a 4+ and cover, but there's no Deny the Witch roll to snuff Warrior shooting and they can also melee better than the Zoeys if needed to break a line. They also never wound themselves and don't have to make a psychic test before making their shooting rolls.
Warriors are more and more looking to be vital.
Oh, and for those looking at Biovores, keep in mind that their spore launcher is a 24" ASSAULT 1, not Heavy 1. Feel free to have them lope along behind the main line like puppies, happily barking as they drop deadly mines on people's heads. Keeps you from having to keep a synapse critter in the backlines. It's better to play them like Rokkits in an Ork army than a Space Marine Whirlwind.
PrinceRaven wrote: they are a Synapse unit, but they are also double the price of a Zonathrope and not as useful.
I dunno, 3 Warriors = 19" Synapse bubble vs 2 Zoanthropes providing 15 1/2", so a bigger area, and 9 wounds vs 4. Admitedly, the 3++ is better than a 4+ and cover, but there's no Deny the Witch roll to snuff Warrior shooting and they can also melee better than the Zoeys if needed to break a line. They also never wound themselves and don't have to make a psychic test before making their shooting rolls.
Warriors are more and more looking to be vital.
Oh, and for those looking at Biovores, keep in mind that their spore launcher is a 24" ASSAULT 1, not Heavy 1. Feel free to have them lope along behind the main line like puppies, happily barking as they drop deadly mines on people's heads. Keeps you from having to keep a synapse critter in the backlines. It's better to play them like Rokkits in an Ork army than a Space Marine Whirlwind.
It was never 3 Biovore Broods, it was an entry labelled 3 Biovores that was open to interpretation about whether that meant 1 unit of 3, 3 units of 1, or whatever you felt like.
Thats what I thought! Im so confused as to why you cant, because i would run a shrike alpha in every small game. Ive actually been having a lot of luck with Warriors and shrikes kitted out with swords, devs, toxin and adrenals. Tears up what ever it hits(usually biker nobs or meganobs because of my main opponent). I dont do the LW because i think the extra 5 points can be spent better elsewhere
Wolfnid420 wrote: Thats what I thought! Im so confused as to why you cant, because i would run a shrike alpha in every small game. Ive actually been having a lot of luck with Warriors and shrikes kitted out with swords, devs, toxin and adrenals. Tears up what ever it hits(usually biker nobs or meganobs because of my main opponent). I dont do the LW because i think the extra 5 points can be spent better elsewhere
I run a squad of 9 Shrikes: 9 Devourers, 7 Rending Claws, 2 Boneswords, 2 Flesh Hooks.
Boneswords and Flesh Hooks are a much better buy than LW/BS here.
Wolfnid420 wrote: Thats what I thought! Im so confused as to why you cant, because i would run a shrike alpha in every small game. Ive actually been having a lot of luck with Warriors and shrikes kitted out with swords, devs, toxin and adrenals. Tears up what ever it hits(usually biker nobs or meganobs because of my main opponent). I dont do the LW because i think the extra 5 points can be spent better elsewhere
I run a squad of 9 Shrikes: 9 Devourers, 7 Rending Claws, 2 Boneswords, 2 Flesh Hooks.
Boneswords and Flesh Hooks are a much better buy than LW/BS here.
I run a squad of 9 Shrikes: 9 Devourers, 7 Rending Claws, 2 Boneswords, 2 Flesh Hooks. Boneswords and Flesh Hooks are a much better buy than LW/BS here.
Flesh hooks are are a unit upgrade, not just per model, so make sure you got your point totals correct!
I run a squad of 9 Shrikes: 9 Devourers, 7 Rending Claws, 2 Boneswords, 2 Flesh Hooks. Boneswords and Flesh Hooks are a much better buy than LW/BS here.
Flesh hooks are are a unit upgrade, not just per model, so make sure you got your point totals correct!
Thanks, no worries for list building as getting it on those other 7 is still a great idea.
citadel wrote: FI -
Tervi, Terma x3 broods - Spawning tervi must reroll 1s.
What do people think of this one, if I'm already taking a Tervigon?
Is this Tervigon a troops choice? Is forcing it to reroll 1's a good thing, even though that might cause it to hit doubles sometimes?
Basically, if I'm taking a Tervigon and a bunch of gaunts anyway, I'm just wondering about trying this out
From earlier math, what you get is an overall small increase in brood size but you go through menopause more often. So, it's not a situation of "Drop babies every turn" so much as "Tactical birthing." It changes the playstyle.
Personally, I wouldn't go with it, but I'm not normal, so.
citadel wrote: FI -
Tervi, Terma x3 broods - Spawning tervi must reroll 1s.
*Snip*
Same. Personally, keep to the standard FOC for Tervigons.
Would making use of the Endless Swarm (horms & terms), with one of those units a 30-strong squad, satisfy the Troop Tervigon condition? Then I could see some real use for Trygons!
citadel wrote: FI -
Tervi, Terma x3 broods - Spawning tervi must reroll 1s.
*Snip*
Same. Personally, keep to the standard FOC for Tervigons.
Would making use of the Endless Swarm (horms & terms), with one of those units a 30-strong squad, satisfy the Troop Tervigon condition? Then I could see some real use for Trygons!
Absolutely, the only "issue" is paint the Terv spawn differant , as they are not "Endless", me I would use Spinegaunts for "Endless", and Vanilla'gants for the spawn....
With the Living Artillery Formation, when I reroll the scatter on the brood of 3 BIovores, do I get to reroll the scatter of just the 1st shot, or also the 2nd & 3rd barrage scatters?
