I want to gauge some feelings on rules, specifially on silly little things that upset you as a player, I know most of us have the same feelings on the big broken parts of the game but there are also lots of tiny easy to fix issues that get overlooked.
I will start with -
Assault Terminators not able to take a flamer.
Every other assault unit in the army can take a flamer and it makes perfect sense to give one to an assault termie squad but alas it is not allowed.
Not realistic at all, gives even more power to the gun than the sword which is bad for 40k as 40k is meant to be swords and shields in space with added guns imo..
Also aids in power unbalance within games.
Not my cup of tea.
If they wanted to change it, they should have changed it to 6" plus 2D6 then it would have been more balanced and less frustrating to play with as the charged unit would still be able to Overwatch giving both units good points to play with imo..
Offsets pre-measuring though. We want pre-measuring we need random charge ranges to offset it all (that's also why the max charge range is further than a unit can normally move)
Doesn't mean assualt units didn't deserve a buff to make them more effective in this edition with all the anti-assault additions. It's a LOT harder to get stuck in these days.
Offsets pre-measuring though. We want pre-measuring we need random charge ranges to offset it all (that's also why the max charge range is further than a unit can normally move)
Doesn't mean assualt units didn't deserve a buff to make them more effective in this edition with all the anti-assault additions. It's a LOT harder to get stuck in these days.
Then take pre-measuring out? I really do not mind pre-measuring as I was quite accurate without it back in 5th so I honestly could not care less of it was taken out imo.
Offsets pre-measuring though. We want pre-measuring we need random charge ranges to offset it all (that's also why the max charge range is further than a unit can normally move)
Doesn't mean assualt units didn't deserve a buff to make them more effective in this edition with all the anti-assault additions. It's a LOT harder to get stuck in these days.
Then take pre-measuring out? I really do not mind pre-measuring as I was quite accurate without it back in 5th so I honestly could not care less of it was taken out imo.
Right, but then you raise the learning curve for newer players.
Also I recall a lot of people saying they wanted pre-measuring prior to this edition with statements about how they already do it in Fantasy and so on, so you're likely on the losing side of that argument.
I will say that being able to measure before shooting is nice because you can really choose what units you want to shoot at much easier than before.
Well it doesn't grind my gears but there are some strange rules out there:
Imperial Knights being able to stomp attack units over half its' size - even the Wraithknight which is higher can bestomped upon.
Walkers don't get the Hammer of Wrath rule: Eldar Wraithlords and Wraithknights have the rule but Dreadnoughts, Helbrutes and Killa Kans don't - they valse into combat, shake hands and then throw the gloves.
Big tough Obliterators having only Strength and Toughness 4.
Background curiosities:
Mortals being able to slay an Avatar in close combat.
Tyranid creatures being able to develop faster and beyond diseases and viruses than Gods and daemons can develop them even though they don't need the same kind of physical research.
Guardsmen being able to down a Helbrute by overheating their lasgun clip.
Offsets pre-measuring though. We want pre-measuring we need random charge ranges to offset it all (that's also why the max charge range is further than a unit can normally move)
Doesn't mean assualt units didn't deserve a buff to make them more effective in this edition with all the anti-assault additions. It's a LOT harder to get stuck in these days.
Then take pre-measuring out? I really do not mind pre-measuring as I was quite accurate without it back in 5th so I honestly could not care less of it was taken out imo.
Right, but then you raise the learning curve for newer players.
And? new players played under 5th and harder editions beforehand and they dealt with it fine.
Its all part of player skill, without pre-measuring you could call bluffs to your opponent to which they may or may not have taken so to say, improving player skill as they more games they had the better they could pre-judge distances from.
Formosa wrote: Pre measuring took some skill out of the game for sure, but it's added to the game and made it more even.
What grinds my gears? True line of bloody sight, blimey I hate it and all the crap it's brought to the game
I prefer TLoS over terrain and things forming invisible barriers infinitely tall though....
I'd really prefer a mix of the two where it matters more if you can draw an straight line from one model to the target without looking down their gun barrels or from their perspective and then hand out cover saves based on what's in the way.
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happygolucky wrote: And? new players played under 5th and harder editions beforehand and they dealt with it fine.
Its all part of player skill, without pre-measuring you could call bluffs to your opponent to which they may or may not have taken so to say, improving player skill as they more games they had the better they could pre-judge distances from.
Well those new players are a part of that crowd who wanted pre-measuring (especially since it's a sci-fi game and a lot of factions have equipment like range finders standard). Their vote won this edition.
happygolucky wrote: And? new players played under 5th and harder editions beforehand and they dealt with it fine.
Its all part of player skill, without pre-measuring you could call bluffs to your opponent to which they may or may not have taken so to say, improving player skill as they more games they had the better they could pre-judge distances from.
Well those new players are a part of that crowd who wanted pre-measuring (especially since it's a sci-fi game and a lot of factions have equipment like range finders standard). Their vote won this edition.
I personally do not see why we could have had both.
It's not like you can't house rule to not pre-measure where ever you play, but it's a core rule that has a fair amount of logic behind it (compared to most things GW does).
ClockworkZion wrote: It's not like you can't house rule to not pre-measure where ever you play, but it's a core rule that has a fair amount of logic behind it (compared to most things GW does).
Problem is that people like to win the easiest way possible so I think a pre-measuring ban is off the cards, nor a 6" + 2D6 inclusion be welcomed as well either.
ClockworkZion wrote: It's not like you can't house rule to not pre-measure where ever you play, but it's a core rule that has a fair amount of logic behind it (compared to most things GW does).
Problem is that people like to win the easiest way possible so I think a pre-measuring ban is off the cards, nor a 6" + 2D6 inclusion be welcomed as well either.
Nids, Dark Eldar and BA armies would like the latter, as for the former, yeah, good luck.
ClockworkZion wrote: It's not like you can't house rule to not pre-measure where ever you play, but it's a core rule that has a fair amount of logic behind it (compared to most things GW does).
Problem is that people like to win the easiest way possible so I think a pre-measuring ban is off the cards, nor a 6" + 2D6 inclusion be welcomed as well either.
Nids, Dark Eldar and BA armies would like the latter, as for the former, yeah, good luck.
That my bastard poorly painted army is the bastard best looking army I've ever seen on the bastard table top, by far.
That bastard Necrons are only bastard BS4, they are bastard robots with bastard light based weapons. Unless their bastard target can move faster than the bastard speed of light, they should have perfect bastard aim.
That half the bastard factions in the bastard game are bastard space marines.
That bastard Know No Fear didn't describe the bastard explosion of that bastard star. A bastard great opportunity for some bastard grim darkness completely bastard wasted.
Blackhair Duckshape wrote: That my bastard poorly painted army is the bastard best looking army I've ever seen on the bastard table top, by far.
That bastard Necrons are only bastard BS4, they are bastard robots with bastard light based weapons. Unless their bastard target can move faster than the bastard speed of light, they should have perfect bastard aim.
That half the bastard factions in the bastard game are bastard space marines.
That bastard Know No Fear didn't describe the bastard explosion of that bastard star. A bastard great opportunity for some bastard grim darkness completely bastard wasted.
Awaiting mod to edit post
Another thing that grinds my gears is that the Necron warrior statline is a C+P job of s SM stat with very few changes made. Seriously you expect me to think that a Warrior can block an Ultramarines attack with WS4 when your supposedly one of the slowest forces out there with I: 2 so therefore the Ultramarine can strike faster than you?
Int, and WS need to be linked together to fit background purposes imo..
Also MSS... never get me started on those feckin MSS..
Dataslates. Why charge people for these? Why not make them free and give players more incentive to buy your crap?
You know, if the Tyranid data slates were free, I would have probably bought the list in Tyranid Risning III, the formation within formation. Yes we can't play it in a normal game, but would have made one just to be put in my cabinet. But for what ever reason, I can't do it, if I have to buy a book that I can't use. Weird. I guess if GW can't be bothered to give out a free $17 or $51 book for free, I can't be bothered to spend the few thousand dollars in a year to buy all that. It does go both ways. I shouldn't have to be the one that gives gives gives all the time. So some loyalty GW.
I guess if it was not for GW Customer Support, I would have quit the hobby ages ago. It's GWCS that keeps me interested in the game. Weird I know.
That CSM still have the basic "slightly spikey marine" kit running around for all their stuff. I want cool looking CSM already, not guys who glued spikes to their armor!
That Tzeench magic sucks.
Chaos has fewer options with their vehicles than the loyalists even though they're supposed to be more free to do as they please.
Sucky units that suck because they so obviously suck.
The rules for the Defiler and how dyslexic it is.
Mutilators
Warp Talons
Repentia
Penitent Engines
1Ksons
Khorne bezerkers
All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
Edit : Also, can we please get a more basic beginner box? It's not a huge deal, but I feel like we're going to be drowning in Dark Angel players in a year or two. If the beginner box contained actual customizable armies like SM, Orks, Eldar, etc. Sure it may be a bit boring, but it's a beginner set for feths sake.
Why a Bloodthirster, an immortal daemon of war, born of a thousand battles, only has a 2/3 chance of hitting a grot or a guardmen.
Or hitting a landraider, that thing is as big as a house, but you only have a 66% chance to hit it? It would be harder to miss it tbh.
Or vice versa, a grot trying to hit a bloodthirster and having a 33% chance to do so. Absolutely ridiculous. WS 2 vs WS10 should have to roll a 6 and then a 6 again if it were to show any relevance to the statlines of the models involved.
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
Edit : Also, can we please get a more basic beginner box? It's not a huge deal, but I feel like we're going to be drowning in Dark Angel players in a year or two. If the beginner box contained actual customizable armies like SM, Orks, Eldar, etc. Sure it may be a bit boring, but it's a beginner set for feths sake.
Hahahahahaha!!!!!
For literally years people complained that the releases were to slow. GW responds, ramps up releases and while sorting old books, adds new models and rules. People complain to many releases
For years people wanted more and shiny models in starter boxes. GW ups the box set each time from 2nd (cardboard dreads anyone?) to fully blinged detailed models with multiple units and poses in 6th. People complain box set to complex
In much the same way people complain about not enough rainfall in a drought and too much rainfall in a flood, people complain about either extreme in regards to the release schedule.
Another complaint is that they are prioritising releasing new stuff instead of giving codices like Orks needed updates and giving Sisters plastic models.
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
Edit : Also, can we please get a more basic beginner box? It's not a huge deal, but I feel like we're going to be drowning in Dark Angel players in a year or two. If the beginner box contained actual customizable armies like SM, Orks, Eldar, etc. Sure it may be a bit boring, but it's a beginner set for feths sake.
Hahahahahaha!!!!!
For literally years people complained that the releases were to slow. GW responds, ramps up releases and while sorting old books, adds new models and rules. People complain to many releases
For years people wanted more and shiny models in starter boxes. GW ups the box set each time from 2nd (cardboard dreads anyone?) to fully blinged detailed models with multiple units and poses in 6th. People complain box set to complex
You sir just made my night - hilarious!
It's almost as if groups of people are made up of individuals with unique desires and opinions
People thinking random charge distances is a bad thing and not realizing we've had random charging for a while now (aka charging through terrain, which is what most charges were)
CrownAxe wrote: People thinking random charge distances is a bad thing and not realizing we've had random charging for a while now (aka charging through terrain, which is what most charges were)
Just because it happened sometimes in 5th doesn't mean it isn't a bad thing.
5th also had guessed shooting range since you couldn't pre-measure and no overwatch removing models from the front.
CrownAxe wrote: People thinking random charge distances is a bad thing and not realizing we've had random charging for a while now (aka charging through terrain, which is what most charges were)
Just because it happened sometimes in 5th doesn't mean it isn't a bad thing.
5th also had guessed shooting range since you couldn't pre-measure and no overwatch removing models from the front.
I didn't say assault wasn't nerfed, im just saying random charge distances is a net positive for the game
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
I know someone who has been wanting to run a Stormtrooper army since forever and would trade his left arm to do so (not his right though, he needs that to paint them). So I wouldn't say "nobody asked for" the new stuff. It's just got a limited market on who asked for it.
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
I know someone who has been wanting to run a Stormtrooper army since forever and would trade his left arm to do so (not his right though, he needs that to paint them). So I wouldn't say "nobody asked for" the new stuff. It's just got a limited market on who asked for it.
You're right, I was just being a tad hyperbolic because I'm pretty butthurt the Ork codex is still in 4th edition.
The problem with nerfing overwatch and random charges would be that certain armies, Tau, completely lack viable close combat support. No, I went through 2 editions where my army would just roll over if even one marine or ork touched a unit and I don't want to go back to that now. Bring Kroot back to the close-combat family and give them power-weapon equivalent weapons with heavier armor options and I'll be all on board for those kinds of changes.
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
I know someone who has been wanting to run a Stormtrooper army since forever and would trade his left arm to do so (not his right though, he needs that to paint them). So I wouldn't say "nobody asked for" the new stuff. It's just got a limited market on who asked for it.
You're right, I was just being a tad hyperbolic because I'm pretty butthurt the Ork codex is still in 4th edition.
I know the feeling as, for the moment at least, my only army is Sisters. I'll be branching out soon enough, but I know the feeling. That said I try to not get too wound up about things, like when my army is getting a release, because at this rate it's coming, it's just a matter of how soon.
agnosto wrote: The problem with nerfing overwatch and random charges would be that certain armies, Tau, completely lack viable close combat support..
Show of hands, who thinks being pretty much unable to get into close combat with Tau thanks to their dominance of the shooting phase and super-overwatch is totally fair?
6th edition heavily favours shooting over assault, even more than 5th edition did. It would take a whole lot more than buffed charge range for Tau to start sweating.
agnosto wrote: The problem with nerfing overwatch and random charges would be that certain armies, Tau, completely lack viable close combat support..
Show of hands, who thinks being pretty much unable to get into close combat with Tau thanks to their dominance of the shooting phase and super-overwatch is totally fair?
6th edition heavily favours shooting over assault, even more than 5th edition did. It would take a whole lot more than buffed charge range for Tau to start sweating.
Yeah, the "everyone can overwatch" thing is really annoying, especially since Tau has this habit of forming gun-lines. Add in Markerlights buffing Overwatch BS when they didn't last codex, is really annoying too.
I read a rumour somewhere on here of a change to overwatch, which would mean a unit firing overwatch can not fire in the following shooting phase, similar to how interceptor works.
It won't help units make their charge. But it will stop tau gunlines sitting happy pumping out ridiculous numbers of shots in both your and their turns.
As said, I read it somewhere on here I believe, so take it with a pinch of salt.
In a similar vein of thought, Coteaz and his automatic interceptor on every unit in range has the potential to be a little over the top. One unit being fired on I can understand, but drop 3 drop pods next to him with units inside, and he is going to be firing 6 times in 1 phase. That's as much as another unit does in an entire game. Some matrix skills right there.
It bothers me that charge distance is random when shooting distance is not.
I so agree. Shooting should be random as well.
What also grinds me gears is shooting armies get to fire twice per turn, while assault armies can only attack once per turn, and there is no point costs adjusted to it.
Big Blind Bill wrote:I read a rumour somewhere on here of a change to overwatch, which would mean a unit firing overwatch can not fire in the following shooting phase, similar to how interceptor works.
Given that in most cases the unit firing Overwatch is going to be in close combat in the following shooting phase, it would be a largely pointless change.
Davor wrote:What also grinds me gears is shooting armies get to fire twice per turn, while assault armies can only attack once per turn, and there is no point costs adjusted to it.
How many 'assault armies' don't have ranged weapons?
Most assault units have a pistol that they can fire in the shooting phase, and then they still get to attack in the assault phase.
Davor wrote:What also grinds me gears is shooting armies get to fire twice per turn, while assault armies can only attack once per turn, and there is no point costs adjusted to it.
How many 'assault armies' don't have ranged weapons?
Most assault units have a pistol that they can fire in the shooting phase, and then they still get to attack in the assault phase.
Big Blind Bill wrote:I read a rumour somewhere on here of a change to overwatch, which would mean a unit firing overwatch can not fire in the following shooting phase, similar to how interceptor works.
Given that in most cases the unit firing Overwatch is going to be in close combat in the following shooting phase, it would be a largely pointless change.
It is a pretty common occurrence for over watch to kill a few models, and force a charge to fail. So it has uses there.
Also it would be of tremendous value vs a tau castle. If they overwatch with all the units within 6, then it will make their shooting phase in the next turn much more bearable.
Logically it also has more merit. Units firing overwatch are firing at 2x the speed of everyone else on the field. In a turn based game this makes no sense. It's like someone hit the fast forward button on them.
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
This, so much. While I have the digital SoB codex I'd really like a physical copy. But noo, let's sell high-priced new stuff instead of supporting loyal fans that already waited years for something good.
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
This, so much. While I have the digital SoB codex I'd really like a physical copy. But noo, let's sell high-priced new stuff instead of supporting loyal fans that already waited years for something good.
I would not hold your breath they have been all but squated, two lacklustre codexes an ever shrinking range of models, and the ones you do have are way over priced.
It's sad because I like sisters, gw should either bring them back to life or stop torturing their fans, a half life isn't acceptable.
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
This, so much. While I have the digital SoB codex I'd really like a physical copy. But noo, let's sell high-priced new stuff instead of supporting loyal fans that already waited years for something good.
Please show me where GW has FORCED you to buy the digital SoB book please. For someone who doesn't like GW way of doing things, you are still supporting them then.
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
This, so much. While I have the digital SoB codex I'd really like a physical copy. But noo, let's sell high-priced new stuff instead of supporting loyal fans that already waited years for something good.
I would not hold your breath they have been all but squated, two lacklustre codexes an ever shrinking range of models, and the ones you do have are way over priced.
It's sad because I like sisters, gw should either bring them back to life or stop torturing their fans, a half life isn't acceptable.
GW has claimed last year that they are trying to work on Sisters, but in the past casting problems held them back from releasing them in plastic (which tells me they have a very particular look they're going for that the are refusing to change). With things improving casting wise I think we stand a good chance of seeing a proper Sisters release this year or next.
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
This, so much. While I have the digital SoB codex I'd really like a physical copy. But noo, let's sell high-priced new stuff instead of supporting loyal fans that already waited years for something good.
Please show me where GW has FORCED you to buy the digital SoB book please. For someone who doesn't like GW way of doing things, you are still supporting them then.
Well if he does not buy the digital dex he cant use the army in 6th can he, the WD codex was done for 5th and no longer applies.
There is no printed dex so he can either shelve his army or HAS to buy the digital version.
My biggest complaint about over watch is that it should be more like fantasies charge reaction. No over watch if within movement distance aka 6 inches and can only over watch if in models front arc.
If I had to change something other than the obviously price drops is how deep striking works. One charging from deep striking should be allowed as well as from outflank. If you deep strike and land off the table edge you should come in from that spot next turn.
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
This, so much. While I have the digital SoB codex I'd really like a physical copy. But noo, let's sell high-priced new stuff instead of supporting loyal fans that already waited years for something good.
Please show me where GW has FORCED you to buy the digital SoB book please. For someone who doesn't like GW way of doing things, you are still supporting them then.
I'm sorry, but no.
If we want to play our army, we have to buy the digital codex. That's how it works.
If we want to have any chance in hell of a hardcopy release, we have to get the digital so they know that people are still interested.
In addition, buying the digital SoB codex does not preclude disliking other releases. Especially when said other releases could reasonably have included Sisters rules, since we are also a Progena army, just like the Stormtroopers/Commissars.
ClockworkZion wrote: Yeah, the "everyone can overwatch" thing is really annoying, especially since Tau has this habit of forming gun-lines. Add in Markerlights buffing Overwatch BS when they didn't last codex, is really annoying too.
On the other hand, aren't Markerlight tokens discarded after the end of the phase? Meaning if you want to use them for Overwatch a unit with MLs would have to be eligible to shoot/support and fire them as snap shots.
ClockworkZion wrote: Tau's sublight speed thing that keeps them from being a real proper threat bugs me actually when I think about it.
They do have FTL, it's just very slow* when compared to imperial FTL (although much safer). They also have NLS engines, so they might be faster than imerial ships when not in the warp.
ClockworkZion wrote: Yeah, the "everyone can overwatch" thing is really annoying, especially since Tau has this habit of forming gun-lines. Add in Markerlights buffing Overwatch BS when they didn't last codex, is really annoying too.
On the other hand, aren't Markerlight tokens discarded after the end of the phase? Meaning if you want to use them for Overwatch a unit with MLs would have to be eligible to shoot/support and fire them as snap shots.
You can fire markerlights in overwatch first then allow the next unit to boost their BS, its complete bullcrap but nothing anywhere says you cant do it when charged.
ClockworkZion wrote: Yeah, the "everyone can overwatch" thing is really annoying, especially since Tau has this habit of forming gun-lines. Add in Markerlights buffing Overwatch BS when they didn't last codex, is really annoying too.
On the other hand, aren't Markerlight tokens discarded after the end of the phase? Meaning if you want to use them for Overwatch a unit with MLs would have to be eligible to shoot/support and fire them as snap shots.
You can fire markerlights in overwatch first then allow the next unit to boost their BS, its complete bullcrap but nothing anywhere says you cant do it when charged.
Worse actually, the rules specifically allow the use of them for Overwatch.
robam45 wrote: All the freaking new releases. Two new codices for armies that nobody asked for come out while so many current armies have a codex trapped in 4th/5th edition.
This, so much. While I have the digital SoB codex I'd really like a physical copy. But noo, let's sell high-priced new stuff instead of supporting loyal fans that already waited years for something good.
Please show me where GW has FORCED you to buy the digital SoB book please. For someone who doesn't like GW way of doing things, you are still supporting them then.
How does that even begin to make sense?
Um...if you want to play your army, you gotta have the dex. We like the game and want to play, but wish they'd do it better. Intiende hermano?
I too am a SOB player. Been so since 2nd when they first came out. I've been hearing "oh, they're working on plastic sisters" for many years now. I no longer believe it. GW rather do supplements about random groups that no one's ever heard of than work on one of their primary armies.
GW has claimed last year that they are trying to work on Sisters, but in the past casting problems held them back from releasing them in plastic (which tells me they have a very particular look they're going for that the are refusing to change).
I think that's what they said about Squats right before they Squat'd them though. Although I'd love a less sexualized SoB model to be released, I might actually play them then.
-The intentional extreme underpricing of the riptide to sell the model.
-Any company that takes the "don't ever talk to the customers" stance.
-Any non-broken lightly armored vehicle/walker being shelved all edtion.
-Tournaments having to be a grab-bag of rules and bans, with no real consistency. At the very least, they could come up with formats like "codex tournament: nothing outside your codex, full war: everything's in!" etc, somewhat like M:tg's formats.
-schizo rule: equidistant models taking wounds from shooting are randomized for which one dies first. The same situation in combat allows the controlling player to pick the model that dies first.
-during night fight, units that come with shrouded are hardest to hit at 12-24" away, and if they're 24-36" away, they may as well be right next to you.
-people on ebay never finish ANYTHING. Like every auction is "5 dudes, 1 painted, 1 partial, 1 primed, 2 on sprue" or something similar.
robam45 wrote: I think that's what they said about Squats right before they Squat'd them though. Although I'd love a less sexualized SoB model to be released, I might actually play them then.
Outside of Repentia (who by the artwork should be -more- nude than they currently are), worst Sisters have going on at the moment is the oversized chest plate thing going on, which I agree needs to be toned down.
As for the possibility of Squatting them, the Squats didn't get up dated past 2nd. Sisters have now recieved a new ruleset in 4 of the 6 editions the game has been through (2,3,5,6), even though they haven't seen new models since 3rd there has been some effort in at least keeping their rules functioning (even if they nerfed Repentia, again). I just don't know, for a company that people claim is about to kill the army at any moment they seem to be doing a decent job of keeping it alive even if it isn't super popular.
Oh, and their codex sold so well on iTunes that for a while it was on iTunes current "bestsellers" list. I think that's enough evidence for GW that there is a desire from the community to see this army updated too.
ClockworkZion wrote: As for the possibility of Squatting them, the Squats didn't get up dated past 2nd. Sisters have now recieved a new ruleset in 4 of the 6 editions the game has been through (2,3,5,6), even though they haven't seen new models since 3rd there has been some effort in at least keeping their rules functioning (even if they nerfed Repentia, again). I just don't know, for a company that people claim is about to kill the army at any moment they seem to be doing a decent job of keeping it alive even if it isn't super popular.
Oh, and their codex sold so well on iTunes that for a while it was on iTunes current "bestsellers" list. I think that's enough evidence for GW that there is a desire from the community to see this army updated too.
Additionally, the stated reasons for the Squats being dropped and the Sisters not yet being updated are pretty different. With the Squats, the devs couldn't take them seriously and didn't know what to do with them as an army. With the Sisters, the only obstacle ever cited has been modelling issues. So they seem to see place for the Sisters in 40K, just that they haven't yet done a model update.
Also, it was iBooks that it got a bestsellers on. Sadly, ours is not a musical codex.
ClockworkZion wrote: As for the possibility of Squatting them, the Squats didn't get up dated past 2nd. Sisters have now recieved a new ruleset in 4 of the 6 editions the game has been through (2,3,5,6), even though they haven't seen new models since 3rd there has been some effort in at least keeping their rules functioning (even if they nerfed Repentia, again). I just don't know, for a company that people claim is about to kill the army at any moment they seem to be doing a decent job of keeping it alive even if it isn't super popular.
Oh, and their codex sold so well on iTunes that for a while it was on iTunes current "bestsellers" list. I think that's enough evidence for GW that there is a desire from the community to see this army updated too.
Additionally, the stated reasons for the Squats being dropped and the Sisters not yet being updated are pretty different. With the Squats, the devs couldn't take them seriously and didn't know what to do with them as an army. With the Sisters, the only obstacle ever cited has been modelling issues. So they seem to see place for the Sisters in 40K, just that they haven't yet done a model update.
Also, it was iBooks that it got a bestsellers on. Sadly, ours is not a musical codex.
The Exorcists would beg to differ while it plays the 1812 Overture (which is traditionally played with CANNONS as the percussion section).
PrinceRaven wrote: I sitll don't believe the modelling issue, what's so hard about sisters models that their high quality plastic hasn't already proven to be capable of?
Here is what Jes Goodwin had to say about it. He goes into detail in the first half of the interview.
PrinceRaven wrote: I sitll don't believe the modelling issue, what's so hard about sisters models that their high quality plastic hasn't already proven to be capable of?
While models are getting better (especially recently since they bought that smaller tooling they used for the Hobbit) the likely hood of seeing plastic Sisters has increased, but we need to remember that they didn't always have this kind of stuff. Because of that there were issues in the past on doing the models which may have finally been overcome.
Doesn't mean they'll just spit the army out though, even if there are models for them expanding the army to have the same kind of diversity the rest of the armies in the game will take some time and some creativity. Let's hope they pull it off, eh?
I'm pretty sure we already have plastic models with all of the details listed in that interview.
Just think of how popular a proper Sisters release would have been instead of Militarum Tempestus. It's almost like they're allergic to making lots of money.
I like random charge distance; it makes perfect sense both fluff and game wise. There's a million reasons why a unit may not have the impetus to charge an enemy. What I'd like to see however would be modifiers applied based on Ld an fearless etc.
Modifiers are definitely needed, there's lots of reasons a few Guardsmen mind hesitate to charge a Hive Tyrant or stumble on their way there, not so much the other way around.
PrinceRaven wrote: I'm pretty sure we already have plastic models with all of the details listed in that interview.
Hmm, I duuno. Y'see, a main problem cited was posable minis not being compatible with the arms robes that the Sisters have. Apparently the standard Sisters are allright, but the more dynamic models like Seraphim were hamstrung by it. From what I've seen, the majority of the other robed models get around this by either having less dynamic robes or being monopose. And reading the interview, I do get the impression that they're going for a quite particular look with the Sisters, and would perhaps rather keep the details cited in rather than overhaul the models too much.
But, as Zion said, could be that those issues are worked past by now, and they're still getting them ready or waiting for an opportune time to release them. We'll just have to wait and see.
Oh, got another one: Damned cheap scoring eldar jetbikes that can moves 48 inches in one turn and ignore all intervening terrain.
If the eldar player has the 2nd turn then to get the objective all he has to do is hide the whole game then turbo boost on the final turn. Covering the objective in models is the only way to stop them contesting/scoring it.
robam45 wrote: I think that's what they said about Squats right before they Squat'd them though. Although I'd love a less sexualized SoB model to be released, I might actually play them then.
Outside of Repentia (who by the artwork should be -more- nude than they currently are), worst Sisters have going on at the moment is the oversized chest plate thing going on, which I agree needs to be toned down.
It's not just the breasts, it's the perfect hourglass figure and general Barbie-doll like proportions. Not to mention no helmets. SoB just look way too much like GW wanted a "girl" chapter, not a real warrior woman.
I know the fluff says otherwise, I'm just talking about the model itself.
Troike wrote: ... With the Sisters, the only obstacle ever cited has been modelling issues.
Actually, it's not. Modelling issues have certainly been cited as one of the problems, but they've had plenty of time to find a workaround for that if it was the only issue.
However, the Devs have mentioned in the past that the beancounters really don't like Sisters as an army, and the studio had to fight tooth and nail for the 2nd and 3rd ed codexes. So the problem of retooling them for plastic would be amplified by the fact that the guys holding the purse-strings don't want to spend any money on an army that they don't see as a good seller.
Troike wrote: ... With the Sisters, the only obstacle ever cited has been modelling issues.
Actually, it's not. Modelling issues have certainly been cited as one of the problems, but they've had plenty of time to find a workaround for that if it was the only issue.
Last year the casting issues where listed as the only thing that was holding Sisters back, it's unclear if that was past tense or not. New units aren't something GW has shown an issue with coughing up, even when there wasn't really fluff for them to exist (Centurions).
insaniak wrote: However, the Devs have mentioned in the past that the beancounters really don't like Sisters as an army, and the studio had to fight tooth and nail for the 2nd and 3rd ed codexes. So the problem of retooling them for plastic would be amplified by the fact that the guys holding the purse-strings don't want to spend any money on an army that they don't see as a good seller.
That wasn't mentioned recently and with how well the 5th and 6th Ed Sisters codexes sold (sold out and made the iBooks bestseller list respectively) I think that might a bit of an eye opener for anyone who thought there was no money to make in the army.
The only reason sisters were never big sellers is that they were all metal, even back in 2nd ed that made them expensive.
marines, chaos,nids,eldar and orks all had some plastic models even if they were monopose and ugly they at least let you build an army on the cheap sisters never got that.
I wish the dispersion shield gave a 3++, rather than a 4++. 4++ is too unreliable on a slow, expensive unit like Lychguard. Being able to tank wounds better would make the sword and board combo more useful.
Random charge distance really sucks. 6+D6" seems more reasonable, considering the shootiness of this edition and scary things like Tau overwatch.
I'm disappointed in the lack of love for Chaos (Marines in particular) from GW. I understand that ~50% of the player base plays Imperium, but give Chaos Marines legion/warband-specific doctrines like in the SM codex, at the VERY least.
hobojebus wrote: The only reason sisters were never big sellers is that they were all metal, even back in 2nd ed that made them expensive.
marines, chaos,nids,eldar and orks all had some plastic models even if they were monopose and ugly they at least let you build an army on the cheap sisters never got that.
The only problem is, Necrons suffered from the same issue.
Then again, the Sisters were used to show how powerful the Necrons were, and in second edition, the Necrons were completely freaking broken. They would have made current Tau look like pushovers.
Troike wrote: ... With the Sisters, the only obstacle ever cited has been modelling issues.
Actually, it's not. Modelling issues have certainly been cited as one of the problems, but they've had plenty of time to find a workaround for that if it was the only issue.
However, the Devs have mentioned in the past that the beancounters really don't like Sisters as an army, and the studio had to fight tooth and nail for the 2nd and 3rd ed codexes. So the problem of retooling them for plastic would be amplified by the fact that the guys holding the purse-strings don't want to spend any money on an army that they don't see as a good seller.
I wonder of they've considered the reason people don't buy Sisters is because they're the least supported army in the game.
insaniak wrote: but they've had plenty of time to find a workaround for that if it was the only issue.
It seems that modelling issues can hold an army up for quite a while. The DE are good examples, apparently the devs had some issues to work through with those too.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PrinceRaven wrote: I wonder of they've considered the reason people don't buy Sisters is because they're the least supported army in the game.
I think they're moderately aware at least. We do know that they've attempted to make plastics in the past, which would infer that they're aware that the current situation could be improved.
PrinceRaven wrote: Say what you will about his fluff, (I know I have, check the parody in my sig) but Ward is actually a fairly competent rules writer.
Amazingly there are times he really hits the right notes with his fluff (did competently with Sisters in the WD codex, and I hear good things about Iyanden. Even the Space Marine codex wasn't bad, and most of what he got crap for already existed in the fluff for the most part).
I don't believe the story that they're just waiting for the time to make plastic sisters but some modeling issues came up. If they wanted to, they could. Simple as that. They just don't want to. They have Tauroxes to make.
I was poking at some army ideas today and one of them was Deathwing and it's frustrating that an army that looks that cool basically sucks that hard. It's almost impossible to get a meaningful presence on the table with them below 2K points, and if you try you'll just be out-numbered and out-gunned regardless.
It wasn't so bad looking at a Wraith-heavy army built around Iyanden but I still feel like you just don't have the kinds of tools to make these kind of smaller, elite troop armies work.
MWHistorian wrote: I don't believe the story that they're just waiting for the time to make plastic sisters but some modeling issues came up. If they wanted to, they could. Simple as that.
Well, it is what two different devs have said on two different occasions. I don't see why they'd lie about that. If they didn't want to do them then they'd just drop them.
I don't think it's entirely that simple. They do or did seem to have some legitimate issues with getting them into plastic, and you can't just release a whole new range of plastics on a whim. The SoB line especially would need quite a few updates, and there may be other releases already scheduled before them.
When people deliberately give me the wrong stats for their models. I know it's deliberate since they do it all of the time and then insist it isn't until he finally shows me the codex entry, where he's given it +1/+2 to a few stats. Followed by laughing and "Oh yeah, it is." (Before someone says it, I'm talking Daemon Prince as T8 default, Bikers as T7, Marines as WS 5/6 and I5/6)
When people argue rules with me at the LGS. When I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Constantly telling me "You're wrong, I'm right because it's my codex and I know it you don't lalalalala end of discussion" (Not literally that, but you get the idea) is irritating. They don't say "Here's the page, see?" or show me the relevant FAQ.
It's not a whole lot of them, it's just some of the adults.
That brings me to my next one; The adults at the store sit there and complain about the kids that come into the store. Nobody forces them to play against the kids, but they do talk **** about them. Again, not all of them! Just some of them are like this.
The final one has to be how a lot of them (I hate to say it, but again it's some of the adults) pick on this one guy that plays there, he's 16/17. He's not a bad player, nice guy, y'know? But they sit there talking crap about him, too. He has a few armies and changes what his Marines are from time to time, so they mock him for it and act like it's bad. He doesn't know all of his army's rules, so when he checks the codex they all say "Wow, he's actually checking his codex for once!".
It irritates me to no end because I know he checks his codex every time he needs to. Hell, he'll pull his codex out if he needs to show a rule or if he has even the smallest doubt about his own unit. Yeah, he can be wrong about his own army's rules, but an awful lot less than most people in our store.
They're the worst kind of people. I don't understand why it's so hard for some people to grasp that someone might enjoy 40k in a different way to them, and I certainly don't understand why they need to constantly berate people for having fun wrong.
That Scything Talons are now basic close combat weapons because reasons.
That a pistol+ccw gives the same bonus as two ccws with the benefit of an extra attack.
That shields+ccws do not give attack bonuses even though most shield based fighting styles IRL heavily promote using the shield not just as a blocking tool, but also as a weapon in of itself.
That Lychguards and Praetorians don't have a 2+ save, and that there's no option for hyperphase axes or mauls.
That Pariahs aren't a thing anymore.
That Chaos renegade chapters apparently lose all their loyalist gear as if by magic.
That a regular knife is as effective as a chainsword.
That save for a few units in either book; Khorne is overall the weakest Chaos god competitively.
That to this date, I still do not have cult bikers, havocs, terminators, raptors, dreads and what-not.
That we lost stat altering mutations for the tyranids.
That Tyrant Guard, despite having their eyes removed so that they could put on more armor, only have a 3+.
That Phoenix Lords are statted in ways completely incongruous with their fluff, with the current units being more like Grand Exarchs than Demi-gods of war.
That GW felt the need to rip away BRB powers and nerf the swarmlord when 2++ rerollable hulked out daemon princes are still a thing.
That Hydras, Stalkers, and Hunters don't have interceptor.
That the elite super-special forces of the Imperium have more expendable tanks than the common grunts.
That predator destructors can't twinlink their autocannons.
That autocannons can't be sponson and hull guns like nearly every other infantry wieldable heavy weapon.
That I can't put lascannon sponsons on my Leman Russ tanks or Plasma cannons in the hull gun.
That Leman Russ Annihilators don't get to fire twice like Exterminators do.
That predators don't get more options for sponson guns.
That defensive guns on fliers can barely actually hurt the fighters they're supposed to be defending against.
That the Tomb cycle or whatever it's called is described as an air superiority craft despite neither having skyfire nor any weapons that can reliably pen or glance fliers with the number of shots they put out.
That flying vehicles and superheavy vehicles have such a hugely massive edge over their FMC and GC counterparts.
That most Xenos armies that aren't Eldar or Orks are still lacking in super-heavies (the chapter approved Tyranid Bio-titans and a lot of the Necron superheavies mentioned in fluff would be nice you know)
That Necron units described as quick and speedy or super-skilled still have WS>5 and I2.
That Chaos has apparently never tried to invent new land raider patterns of it's own.
That so many Eldar aspects still don't have phoenix lords.
That the rupture cannon's meh results don't match up it's fluff at all and are actually less likely to hurt a marine than a land raider.
That the Tyranids lost mycetic spores because reasons.
That the Tau still don't have a swordfish gunship kit.
That GW and FW aren't raiding the desiccated corpses of chapter approved and epic even harder for more units.
That the Crone has the drool cannon even though it doesn't really fit with what it does (kill vehicles and aircraft) and would be more fitting on the harpy, I'd rather have an S7 multishot weapon for flier killing.
That the Haruspex is so incredibly meh.
That we pay 220 points for Old One Eye when he isn't really any tougher or more hurty than a crushing claws carnifex with regeneration.
That GW seems to have this fetish for not giving assault units assault transports or grenades.
That save for one example, all fortifications are Imperial.
That the Icarus lascannon is only a single twinlinked set when the quad gun is two twinlinked sets.
That we actually need to pay points for Flakk missiles.
That out of all the forces of Chaos, only the Crimson Slaughter warband ever made any artificer armor ever.
That GW continues to think that soul blaze is awesome sauce and totally worth a big points boost when all it really does is slow down the game and make it so that certain units will laugh at your attacks.
That we don't have some sort of super-sized gargantuan creature avatar of khaine.
That the Avatar of Khaine is a budget MC when by it's fluff it should be so much more.
That the super-special spear of twilight with the power of a supernova inside or the reality slicing claws of the warp talon...bounces off of a meganobz' armor made out of some scrap a mekboy found lying around.
That GW saw fit to give us the Taurox to fill a role nobody was asking for rather than something like a militarized version of the power loader from aliens.
Most everything about how the Dreadknight looks, urrgghhh.
That the super-revered battle brothers interred in dreadnoughts can get their gak wrecked by any random carnifex.
That the Dark Angels thought their flier STCs were too valuable to be shared with the wider Imperium...when both of them are grossly inferior to anything else fielded by the Imperium.
That the Dark-Angels have apparently never heard of grav-guns.
That there aren't rules for flying infantry a la Rocketeers from Red Alert 2.
Ond Angel wrote: When people deliberately give me the wrong stats for their models. I know it's deliberate since they do it all of the time and then insist it isn't until he finally shows me the codex entry, where he's given it +1/+2 to a few stats. Followed by laughing and "Oh yeah, it is." (Before someone says it, I'm talking Daemon Prince as T8 default, Bikers as T7, Marines as WS 5/6 and I5/6)
When people argue rules with me at the LGS. When I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Constantly telling me "You're wrong, I'm right because it's my codex and I know it you don't lalalalala end of discussion" (Not literally that, but you get the idea) is irritating. They don't say "Here's the page, see?" or show me the relevant FAQ.
It's not a whole lot of them, it's just some of the adults.
That brings me to my next one; The adults at the store sit there and complain about the kids that come into the store. Nobody forces them to play against the kids, but they do talk **** about them. Again, not all of them! Just some of them are like this.
The final one has to be how a lot of them (I hate to say it, but again it's some of the adults) pick on this one guy that plays there, he's 16/17. He's not a bad player, nice guy, y'know? But they sit there talking crap about him, too. He has a few armies and changes what his Marines are from time to time, so they mock him for it and act like it's bad. He doesn't know all of his army's rules, so when he checks the codex they all say "Wow, he's actually checking his codex for once!".
It irritates me to no end because I know he checks his codex every time he needs to. Hell, he'll pull his codex out if he needs to show a rule or if he has even the smallest doubt about his own unit. Yeah, he can be wrong about his own army's rules, but an awful lot less than most people in our store.
I think that's it for now.
:3
Wow Geeks and Nerds picking on others. Adults to boot. Really shameful. We use to be picked on, but now they think they are good with plastic toy soldiers, they are "Jocks" now? I would give them a piece of my mind, especially when they pick on someone so much younger than them.
Ond Angel wrote: When people deliberately give me the wrong stats for their models. I know it's deliberate since they do it all of the time and then insist it isn't until he finally shows me the codex entry, where he's given it +1/+2 to a few stats. Followed by laughing and "Oh yeah, it is." (Before someone says it, I'm talking Daemon Prince as T8 default, Bikers as T7, Marines as WS 5/6 and I5/6)
When people argue rules with me at the LGS. When I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Constantly telling me "You're wrong, I'm right because it's my codex and I know it you don't lalalalala end of discussion" (Not literally that, but you get the idea) is irritating. They don't say "Here's the page, see?" or show me the relevant FAQ.
It's not a whole lot of them, it's just some of the adults.
That brings me to my next one; The adults at the store sit there and complain about the kids that come into the store. Nobody forces them to play against the kids, but they do talk **** about them. Again, not all of them! Just some of them are like this.
The final one has to be how a lot of them (I hate to say it, but again it's some of the adults) pick on this one guy that plays there, he's 16/17. He's not a bad player, nice guy, y'know? But they sit there talking crap about him, too. He has a few armies and changes what his Marines are from time to time, so they mock him for it and act like it's bad. He doesn't know all of his army's rules, so when he checks the codex they all say "Wow, he's actually checking his codex for once!".
It irritates me to no end because I know he checks his codex every time he needs to. Hell, he'll pull his codex out if he needs to show a rule or if he has even the smallest doubt about his own unit. Yeah, he can be wrong about his own army's rules, but an awful lot less than most people in our store.
I think that's it for now.
:3
Wow Geeks and Nerds picking on others. Adults to boot. Really shameful. We use to be picked on, but now they think they are good with plastic toy soldiers, they are "Jocks" now? I would give them a piece of my mind, especially when they pick on someone so much younger than them.
It is a shame, really, I mean, some of the kids *can* be annoying, but they stop if you ask them nicely, y'know? They're not impolite or brats about anything.
Honestly, with the way they act towards me and others has made me contemplate not going back there for a while.
The problems are;
A) It's the only store near me (The other requires a car journey; I cannot drive and nobody in the house has a car. Also, I'm loyal to my LGS and I wouldn't want to spend at another one)
B) The store owner is a really great guy. He's not a dick about anything, he'll argue his interpretation of something or how he thinks/knows the rule but will accept when he's mistaken or wrong.
We jokingly used to call small children at our GW 'the spawn', but none of us would refuse to play against them unless we were having a particularly bad day. ><
ClockworkZion wrote: Tau's sublight speed thing that keeps them from being a real proper threat bugs me actually when I think about it.
The tidbit about the Tau only having STL drives is very quickly contradicted by their timetable showing them crossing X-light years in less than X years.
I personally ignore GW's fetish for mucking with pre-established FTL systems and it seems that the BL and FW also ignore it.
Kain wrote: That Scything Talons are now basic close combat weapons because reasons.
That a pistol+ccw gives the same bonus as two ccws with the benefit of an extra attack.
That shields+ccws do not give attack bonuses even though most shield based fighting styles IRL heavily promote using the shield not just as a blocking tool, but also as a weapon in of itself.
That Lychguards and Praetorians don't have a 2+ save, and that there's no option for hyperphase axes or mauls.
That Pariahs aren't a thing anymore.
That Chaos renegade chapters apparently lose all their loyalist gear as if by magic.
That a regular knife is as effective as a chainsword.
That save for a few units in either book; Khorne is overall the weakest Chaos god competitively.
That to this date, I still do not have cult bikers, havocs, terminators, raptors, dreads and what-not.
That we lost stat altering mutations for the tyranids.
That Tyrant Guard, despite having their eyes removed so that they could put on more armor, only have a 3+.
That Phoenix Lords are statted in ways completely incongruous with their fluff, with the current units being more like Grand Exarchs than Demi-gods of war.
That GW felt the need to rip away BRB powers and nerf the swarmlord when 2++ rerollable hulked out daemon princes are still a thing.
That Hydras, Stalkers, and Hunters don't have interceptor.
That the elite super-special forces of the Imperium have more expendable tanks than the common grunts.
That predator destructors can't twinlink their autocannons.
That autocannons can't be sponson and hull guns like nearly every other infantry wieldable heavy weapon.
That I can't put lascannon sponsons on my Leman Russ tanks or Plasma cannons in the hull gun.
That Leman Russ Annihilators don't get to fire twice like Exterminators do.
That predators don't get more options for sponson guns.
That defensive guns on fliers can barely actually hurt the fighters they're supposed to be defending against.
That the Tomb cycle or whatever it's called is described as an air superiority craft despite neither having skyfire nor any weapons that can reliably pen or glance fliers with the number of shots they put out.
That flying vehicles and superheavy vehicles have such a hugely massive edge over their FMC and GC counterparts.
That most Xenos armies that aren't Eldar or Orks are still lacking in super-heavies (the chapter approved Tyranid Bio-titans and a lot of the Necron superheavies mentioned in fluff would be nice you know)
That Necron units described as quick and speedy or super-skilled still have WS>5 and I2.
That Chaos has apparently never tried to invent new land raider patterns of it's own.
That so many Eldar aspects still don't have phoenix lords.
That the rupture cannon's meh results don't match up it's fluff at all and are actually less likely to hurt a marine than a land raider.
That the Tyranids lost mycetic spores because reasons.
That the Tau still don't have a swordfish gunship kit.
That GW and FW aren't raiding the desiccated corpses of chapter approved and epic even harder for more units.
That the Crone has the drool cannon even though it doesn't really fit with what it does (kill vehicles and aircraft) and would be more fitting on the harpy, I'd rather have an S7 multishot weapon for flier killing.
That the Haruspex is so incredibly meh.
That we pay 220 points for Old One Eye when he isn't really any tougher or more hurty than a crushing claws carnifex with regeneration.
That GW seems to have this fetish for not giving assault units assault transports or grenades.
That save for one example, all fortifications are Imperial.
That the Icarus lascannon is only a single twinlinked set when the quad gun is two twinlinked sets.
That we actually need to pay points for Flakk missiles.
That out of all the forces of Chaos, only the Crimson Slaughter warband ever made any artificer armor ever.
That GW continues to think that soul blaze is awesome sauce and totally worth a big points boost when all it really does is slow down the game and make it so that certain units will laugh at your attacks.
That we don't have some sort of super-sized gargantuan creature avatar of khaine.
That the Avatar of Khaine is a budget MC when by it's fluff it should be so much more.
That the super-special spear of twilight with the power of a supernova inside or the reality slicing claws of the warp talon...bounces off of a meganobz' armor made out of some scrap a mekboy found lying around.
That GW saw fit to give us the Taurox to fill a role nobody was asking for rather than something like a militarized version of the power loader from aliens.
Most everything about how the Dreadknight looks, urrgghhh.
That the super-revered battle brothers interred in dreadnoughts can get their gak wrecked by any random carnifex.
That the Dark Angels thought their flier STCs were too valuable to be shared with the wider Imperium...when both of them are grossly inferior to anything else fielded by the Imperium.
That the Dark-Angels have apparently never heard of grav-guns.
That there aren't rules for flying infantry a la Rocketeers from Red Alert 2.
I got lots more really.
That was epic and surprisingly I couldn't find a thing to seriously disagree with.
ClockworkZion wrote: Tau's sublight speed thing that keeps them from being a real proper threat bugs me actually when I think about it.
The tidbit about the Tau only having STL drives is very quickly contradicted by their timetable showing them crossing X-light years in less than X years.
I personally ignore GW's fetish for mucking with pre-established FTL systems and it seems that the BL and FW also ignore it.
And tau do have FTL, I even have the sheet from BFG that says so. Tau also have NLS engines making them possible faster than imperial ones in real-space, not sure though.
throwoff wrote: I want to gauge some feelings on rules, specifially on silly little things that upset you as a player, I know most of us have the same feelings on the big broken parts of the game but there are also lots of tiny easy to fix issues that get overlooked.
I will start with -
Assault Terminators not able to take a flamer.
Every other assault unit in the army can take a flamer and it makes perfect sense to give one to an assault termie squad but alas it is not allowed.
You?
Dark Angels Deathwing terminators get them... your argument is invalidm
ClockworkZion wrote: Tau's sublight speed thing that keeps them from being a real proper threat bugs me actually when I think about it.
The tidbit about the Tau only having STL drives is very quickly contradicted by their timetable showing them crossing X-light years in less than X years.
I personally ignore GW's fetish for mucking with pre-established FTL systems and it seems that the BL and FW also ignore it.
GW is bad at math in general. Actually I can show you some low ball number crunching a friend and I did assuming populations on planets were on the lower end listed for their types based on type of planet they were which basically throws GW numbers for Sisters out the window pretty fast.
It's been a long running tradition that there aren't that many Battle Sisters in the fluff (about 100K total Sisters...maybe.) So a friend and I sat down and decided to crunch some numbers (for the purposes of the exercise we lowballed most of these numbers to try and feel out a low number that we could expect) with the goal to work out how many Sororitas (and then how many Battle Sisters) there should be in the Imperium as we agreed that due to the size and scale of the Imperium, the Ecclesiarchy and the scope of the duties of the Sisters their numbers just weren't high enough at 100,000.
To keep the numbers reasonably low we worked off the following rules:
1% of the entire Imperium meets the very basic criteria to be considered for becoming a Sororitas.
1% of those complete their "basic" training successfully
1% of those are on active status at any time (the other 99% have been deactivated for any number of reasons). This last one was to really just push the number a lot lower based on the "gak happens" quotient.
50% of the final total is Militant Orders, the rest is divided into the various Non-Militant Orders (which makes each of those smaller than the combined Militant Orders).
So running some basic numbers we figured that from the Hive Worlds (all 32,380 of them) had a rough average of 50,000,000,000 (we went with 50 Billion a Hive, which is about the middle of the range (10-100,000,000,000), and 10 Hive a planet, which is a bit lower than half as the range is 5-20) 16,190,000,000,000,000 people on the hives.
To keep the math easy we went with an average of 5 Billion people on average on every other planet in the Imperium (working from 1,000,000 that means 967,620 worlds) which is lower than our current population on Earth. That gave us another 4,838,100,000,000,000 more people.
This gave us a total of 21,028,100,000,000,000 people in the Imperium on a lowball math run.
Of these 210,281,000,000,000 meet the very basic criteria.
Of those 2,102,810,000,000 complete the basic training.
Of those 21,028,100,000 are on any kind of active duty.
Of those 10,514,050,000 are Battle Sisters.
So in short we think that about 10.5 Billion Battle Sisters makes much more sense in the fluff, or the Sisters have an attrition rate that makes even the Imperial Guard look
This means the Imperium -should- have roughly 10,514 Sisters per World. Assuming all 1 Million Planets had Sisters on them. And that 10.5 Billion Sisters? 0.00005% of the Imperium's pop so they're still plenty "selective" and "elite" given the scale of the setting. To give you a comparitive idea, it's like having 3 Sisters of Battle per state in the US in terms of comparative scale we're talking here.
And just for fun, let's assume that 10% of the entire Imperium become Guard (tithes and all that). We'd have 2,102,810,000,000,000 Guardsmen (not counting Commisars or Storm Troopers since those come from the Schola and you can probably have as many of them as you do Sisters pretty easilly, if not even more). So yeah, GW's numbers make me laugh because using the numbers they give you can VERY quickly extrapolate a lot more of things than they say. I mean they talk about "Billions of Guardsmen" when it seems they should be talking about "Trillions" if not "Quadrillions" of Guardsmen instead.
Ond Angel wrote: When people deliberately give me the wrong stats for their models. I know it's deliberate since they do it all of the time and then insist it isn't until he finally shows me the codex entry, where he's given it +1/+2 to a few stats. Followed by laughing and "Oh yeah, it is." (Before someone says it, I'm talking Daemon Prince as T8 default, Bikers as T7, Marines as WS 5/6 and I5/6)
When people argue rules with me at the LGS. When I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Constantly telling me "You're wrong, I'm right because it's my codex and I know it you don't lalalalala end of discussion" (Not literally that, but you get the idea) is irritating. They don't say "Here's the page, see?" or show me the relevant FAQ.
It's not a whole lot of them, it's just some of the adults.
That brings me to my next one; The adults at the store sit there and complain about the kids that come into the store. Nobody forces them to play against the kids, but they do talk **** about them. Again, not all of them! Just some of them are like this.
The final one has to be how a lot of them (I hate to say it, but again it's some of the adults) pick on this one guy that plays there, he's 16/17. He's not a bad player, nice guy, y'know? But they sit there talking crap about him, too. He has a few armies and changes what his Marines are from time to time, so they mock him for it and act like it's bad. He doesn't know all of his army's rules, so when he checks the codex they all say "Wow, he's actually checking his codex for once!".
It irritates me to no end because I know he checks his codex every time he needs to. Hell, he'll pull his codex out if he needs to show a rule or if he has even the smallest doubt about his own unit. Yeah, he can be wrong about his own army's rules, but an awful lot less than most people in our store.
I think that's it for now.
:3
It's a shame really, as I have also seen all of those things happening multiple time
The Tau Empire has only expanded into space during the last thousand years. Despite this they have made remarkable progress in developing both civilian and military starships, and have now reached a level where their ships can be compared to Imperial designs. The development of the Tau fleet (known as the Kor’vattra in Tau) has been given the highest priority by the Ethereal Caste. Without the Kor’vattra the manifest destiny of the Tau could never be realised and as a species their existence would be at the mercy of celestial phenomena such as meteors or supernova. Once unified by the Ethereal Caste the Tau made incredible technological progress. By M39 they had spread through the T’au system and ringed their homeworld with orbital research and manufacturing facilities. Further expansion required a drive system capable of spanning interstellar distances however and this proved to be a formidable barrier. Tau vessels already used a form of gravitic drive. This projected a sheath of gravitic energy ahead of and around the vessel which was continually re-projected further ahead, drawing the ship behind it rather like an archaic sail. For two hundred tau’cyr the Water Caste grappled with the problem only for the breakthrough to be handed to them. On the innermost of T’au seven’s moons a routine geological survey discovered the remains of an alien vessel. The significance of the find did not disrupt Tau society as much as might have been expected. Tau theorists had long reasoned that other life forms existed and the verification helped confirm the belief that there was a greater destiny awaiting them. No Tau commented on the sheer good fortune of finding the technology that they so desperately needed on their doorstep just when they needed it.
The Tau were able to duplicate the warp drive of the alien ship but the initial test flights were disastrous. Achieving transition to the Warp required more than technology, it required psychically attuned minds and the Tau race boasted no psykers. Without them to guide the transition no amount of power could breach the dimensional barriers. The best the Tau could do was make a partial transition, forcing themselves into the void that separated Warpspace and real space before they were hurled out again like a ball held under water then released. Data gathered at great cost during the test flights was studied closely. The Water caste scientists made the observation that the boundary between real space and warp space was not a neat line. It was closer to being a turbulent ocean fomented by the tempestuous warp tides below. By carefully angling their descent toward the Warp and extending the field generated by the gravitic drive into a wing, shaped to hold the vessel down a Tau vessel could extend the duration of the dive considerably. The speeds achieved in the ascent back to real space were staggering and this coupled with the effect of the Warp on time and space ensured that the real distance covered by the dive was immense. Early tests lost several drone ships because they inadvertently passed far beyond the sensor range of their recovery vessels.
The details were soon resolved. There was still a major constraint, only the most powerful (and bulky) drives could sustain the gravitic wing throughout the dive and the power drain meant that considerable recharge time was needed between dives. Also by comparison to actually navigating the warp the pace was still very slow. Taking typical Imperial Warp speeds the Tau drive was slower by a factor of five. The speed was consistent though, did not expose the Tau to the perils of the Warp and enabled the Tau to expand beyond their home star for the first time.[/quote[
That standing on the back of a flatbed pickup makes you completely 100% safe from all weapons fire to the point you can't even be targeted but being inside a fortified bunker designed to endure any assault doesn't (plus you're likely to take wounds every time the building gets shot at). Also that someone can come up with a flamethrower and hit everybody in the building even though units standing on a flatbed truck are immune to flamethrowers somehow. So basically everything to do with transport and building rules.
That the new Tau codex is so good people complain and refuse to play against me when I bring out the only army I've ever owned (and got my face beaten in with) since 3rd edition.
ClockworkZion wrote: Tau's sublight speed thing that keeps them from being a real proper threat bugs me actually when I think about it.
The tidbit about the Tau only having STL drives is very quickly contradicted by their timetable showing them crossing X-light years in less than X years.
I personally ignore GW's fetish for mucking with pre-established FTL systems and it seems that the BL and FW also ignore it.
GW is bad at math in general. Actually I can show you some low ball number crunching a friend and I did assuming populations on planets were on the lower end listed for their types based on type of planet they were which basically throws GW numbers for Sisters out the window pretty fast.
It's been a long running tradition that there aren't that many Battle Sisters in the fluff (about 100K total Sisters...maybe.) So a friend and I sat down and decided to crunch some numbers (for the purposes of the exercise we lowballed most of these numbers to try and feel out a low number that we could expect) with the goal to work out how many Sororitas (and then how many Battle Sisters) there should be in the Imperium as we agreed that due to the size and scale of the Imperium, the Ecclesiarchy and the scope of the duties of the Sisters their numbers just weren't high enough at 100,000.
To keep the numbers reasonably low we worked off the following rules:
1% of the entire Imperium meets the very basic criteria to be considered for becoming a Sororitas.
1% of those complete their "basic" training successfully
1% of those are on active status at any time (the other 99% have been deactivated for any number of reasons). This last one was to really just push the number a lot lower based on the "gak happens" quotient.
50% of the final total is Militant Orders, the rest is divided into the various Non-Militant Orders (which makes each of those smaller than the combined Militant Orders).
So running some basic numbers we figured that from the Hive Worlds (all 32,380 of them) had a rough average of 50,000,000,000 (we went with 50 Billion a Hive, which is about the middle of the range (10-100,000,000,000), and 10 Hive a planet, which is a bit lower than half as the range is 5-20) 16,190,000,000,000,000 people on the hives.
To keep the math easy we went with an average of 5 Billion people on average on every other planet in the Imperium (working from 1,000,000 that means 967,620 worlds) which is lower than our current population on Earth. That gave us another 4,838,100,000,000,000 more people.
This gave us a total of 21,028,100,000,000,000 people in the Imperium on a lowball math run.
Of these 210,281,000,000,000 meet the very basic criteria.
Of those 2,102,810,000,000 complete the basic training.
Of those 21,028,100,000 are on any kind of active duty.
Of those 10,514,050,000 are Battle Sisters.
So in short we think that about 10.5 Billion Battle Sisters makes much more sense in the fluff, or the Sisters have an attrition rate that makes even the Imperial Guard look
This means the Imperium -should- have roughly 10,514 Sisters per World. Assuming all 1 Million Planets had Sisters on them. And that 10.5 Billion Sisters? 0.00005% of the Imperium's pop so they're still plenty "selective" and "elite" given the scale of the setting. To give you a comparitive idea, it's like having 3 Sisters of Battle per state in the US in terms of comparative scale we're talking here.
And just for fun, let's assume that 10% of the entire Imperium become Guard (tithes and all that). We'd have 2,102,810,000,000,000 Guardsmen (not counting Commisars or Storm Troopers since those come from the Schola and you can probably have as many of them as you do Sisters pretty easilly, if not even more). So yeah, GW's numbers make me laugh because using the numbers they give you can VERY quickly extrapolate a lot more of things than they say. I mean they talk about "Billions of Guardsmen" when it seems they should be talking about "Trillions" if not "Quadrillions" of Guardsmen instead.
Having no sense of scale seems to be endemic to fiction writers as a whole. It's perhaps most obvious in science fiction and fantasy, but it is an endemic issue. It's one thing GW is not the sole culprit of and some settings have it even worse (Yeah Star Wars, 200,000 clones can totally defend an entire galaxy) , but I think we've all made fun of the idea of a single guard regiment or space marine company taking an entire planet.
ClockworkZion wrote: Tau's sublight speed thing that keeps them from being a real proper threat bugs me actually when I think about it.
The tidbit about the Tau only having STL drives is very quickly contradicted by their timetable showing them crossing X-light years in less than X years.
I personally ignore GW's fetish for mucking with pre-established FTL systems and it seems that the BL and FW also ignore it.
And tau do have FTL, I even have the sheet from BFG that says so. Tau also have NLS engines making them possible faster than imperial ones in real-space, not sure though.
NLS engines and warp skipper drives are what they primarily use if memory serves right?
I recall reading something about the Tau being interested in the FTL systems of other races, particularly ones that aren't reliant on the warp.
In any case, if the 5 times standard imperial real space engine thing is correct, and we know that Imperial ships prefer to accelerate to about 0.75c, that means that Tau ships can traverse real space at 3.75c without even hitting their warp skipper drives. Not amazingly fast but enough to open up interesting tactical possibilities or get away to a nearby system in a reasonable span of time even if warp shenanigans are taking place.
The ignores cover rule. It's not a bad rule but it feels like it's been handed out to much. Why add terrain if most armies I face anymore can just ignore it?
That GW, knowing full well that Banshees were long considered a rather mediocre unit due to not having the right strength value or sufficient weight of attacks to actually be efficient against the MEQs and TEQs their load-out suggests is their prime target in 5e, and knowing that they were one of the units hardest hit by the rules changes in 6e denying them assaulting out of transports ever, turning their charges into chancey things, and gutting their effectiveness against TEQ and FNP units; saw fit to give the Banshees a lateral boost at best. You know, rather than give them the assault through cover at initiative, furious charge, and/or assault transports they needed. This isn't even touching how they effectively lost all their teeth against the TEQs they once terrified by ignoring their armor saves and striking way before they did.
I mean, at least wyches still have an invulnerable save, open top transports, and haywire grenades to melt vehicles. But the super-advanced Eldar whose warriors literally dedicate their every waking moment to war never saw it fit to give one of their dedicated assault troops assault grenades? I've carried grenades into combat exercises before, it's not something that slows you down. And that these super-acrobatic battle dancers who wear power armor that not only protects them and enhances their strength but specifically improves their mobility across the board; can't dodge to at least a lesser degree than Wyches? And that the super-advanced Eldar never gave their heavy infantry killing melee specialists something to kill super-heavy infantry besides hoping the Exarch can cover for them? An Exarch who is inferior at TEQ killing to a Scorpion Exarch with a power fist because said scorpion hits at S8 at initiative and thus instantly pops Meganobz and Paladins and denies FNP to most TEQs, has grenades, and still has a boatload of attacks for a sergeant.
Come on.
The Mandiblaster alteration is easily one of the biggest examples of change for the sake of change. What was the point, really?
That Wraithknights can be built with up to four weapons, but can only use two; rendering the shoulder guns pointless (The Tyrannofex can have up to three weapons, but now the third will just be there to look pretty).
That the ghost glaive is an option, but GW apparently forgot that as they were S10 models; this does precisely squat for them besides forcing them to use shoulder guns in shooting.
That a wraith knight's weapon and shield combo is less protective than a wraithblade's weapon and shield combo because reasons.
That wraithknights can't double up on sun cannons when there doesn't really seem to be a reason they can't.
That GW is very, very cheeky about giving armies ground based AA options that aren't' flakk missiles. The Tau got the ultimate in more dakka skyfire/interceptor options. The Eldar, Dark Angels, and Chaos Space Marines meanwhile; have to hope their flakk missiles are feeling like preforming today. This is made worse by the presence of FWAA options that could be easily put into the codex proper like the Firestorm, Mortis dread, or giving forge-fiends an option for skyfire.
Tyranids and Daemons? Lol get fethed if you don't want to use fliers.
If my forgefiends can replace their face with a plasma cannon, why can't they replace their face with a hades autocannon?
That GW continually forgets to put rending on other gatling weapons when the Assault cannon is specifically noted as having it because it spews out so many bullets it can wear down defenses. Rending would go a way to making the Avenger Strike fighter's main gun actually a tank killer like the A-10/Su-25 it's an expy of, making Punishers better on Leman Russes, making Vulcan mega-bolters slightly more attractive as cheap super-heavy weapons, and so on so forth.
I spent some time math-hammering it and putting rending on a Leman Russ Punisher doesn't really break it that badly. You get on average one rending hit per volley. Maybe two if you're lucky. Even on Vultures it's only three on average. It'd also make the Hades slightly more attractive on Heldrakes (still not great). Even a stormlord superheavy double tapping it's vulcan megabolter at BS4 would only get a little more than three rends on average. If they are twinlinked then they'd get a bit more than four. Which is...not really all that threatening?
That rending doesn't confer the benefits of AP2 against vehicles because reasons.
That Gauss weapons lost the old-autowound feature. It wasn't really all that overpowering GW.
That the Phaeron upgrade is completely pointless because you can't put it on Destroyer lords to escort Beamer wraiths (thus making the gun actually useful), and all other Necron infantry use Assault or Rapid fire guns or are meleeists. A stat boost or something would be nice...
That GW seems to prefer laterally boosting struggling armies like the Tyranids, Dark Angels, and Sisters of battle over making them in-line with the top four codexes.
This is more a personal preference than a complaint, but I'd like more fliers in more slots for the armies. I homebrewed quite a lot of planes and FMCs. More MCs in armies that would sensibly have MCs would be nice too. I'd also like some more proper tanks for the Xenos.
That the concept of a proper dedicated mainline battle tank seems to elude every faction but the Guard and Tyranids (in a weird sense), and I guess the Marines too if you count the Sicarian battle tank. Everyone else either drives souped up IFVs (Battlewagons/fortresses and Land Raiders), selfpropelled guns (gun trukks, vindicators, etc) or converted transports (Fire Prisms, Predators, Hammerheads, etc) and some factions have apparently never heard of putting a turret on a vehicle (I'm looking at you Necrons).
That Necron destroyers are jump infantry rather than Jetpack or Jetpack/Jump infantry when Jump is something you put on a model to get it into assault, which Destroyers are terrible at outside of the Lord, while Jetpack is something you put on a model to keep it out of danger.
Why can't I put Tesla cannons on my Destroyers? Why are Gauss cannons S5 now?
Why are some armies stuffed to the gills with options while others barely get any?
Why is the Tyranid Prime 54% more expensive for no gain?
Why are Tyranid Warriors priced like TEQs when T4, 3 wounds, and a 4+ save make them autocannon and S8+ pieplate fodder? Raveners and Shrikes have it even worse. Either make them cheaper or more survivable.
Was there any reason to change the Boneswords and Lash whips? They were hardly gamebreaking before.
Why can't a Hive Tyrant dual wield boneswords if it wants to?
Why are dual boneswords entirely pointless now?
Why are relics so haphazardly useful with regards to both internal and external balance? Some armies get what amount to auto-takes because they're so good (both in terms of efficiency and sheer power), while others get nothing that is more than situationally useful and painfully overcosted at best.
Stop turning what should be integral character special rules into automatic results on the warlord table; seriously. Does Old One eye forget how to ignore pain if he's not the only HQ model in a tyranid army?
The Psyker tables are neither internally nor externally balanced. Tzeentch; the Lord of Magic, has two powers of his worth having. The rest are all awful. Pyromancy not only is full of witchfires, but they're mediocre witchfires at that, out of the table only Avatar of Flame is really all that good; and it's ultimately a poor man's iron arm mated to forewarning. Telekinesis is more bad witchfires, iffy blessings and maledictions, and that vortex thing.
Honestly every army should have access to all the BRB tables, and they need reworking. I personally went about making all the powers as good as things like Iron Arm, Prescience, and invisibility but other homebrewers may prefer setting the line of balance lower.
Khorne's ban on sorcery doesn't really make too much sense. Khorne is first and foremost; defined by Rage just as the most primal emotions behind Slaanesh, Nurgle, and Tzeentch are Lust, Despair, and Hope, with other aspects being added to those cores. We know that he's fine with ranged weapons; as the Teeth of Khorne are a thing, we know he's fine with any slaughter of worthy enemies or the flow of most blood (apparently Tyranid blood doesn't do anything for him; go figure) and anger and hate in general feed him. But sorcerers can be every bit as angry, violent, and hateful as anyone else. If the power of technology and daemon weaponary gets a free pass then what's the matter with drawing from the power of the blood god?
Barring Psykers from Khorne may make him more unique perhaps, but it also has weakened his forces on the tabletop. There's literally no point in taking a bloodthirster or a daemon prince of Khorne, and you only get Khorne heralds because you need them to get the most out of his other forces.
The Bloodcrusher was pointlessly nerfed and to add insult to injury; now costs a holy hell of a lot more because feth the blood god.
That Rubric Marines; who have been consistently terrible in every edition they've appeared in, HAVE NEVER BEEN FETHING FIXED HOLY GAK GW ARE YOU CRAZY!?!
That Flayed Ones aren't troops when they certainly don't handle like Elites.
That apparently any Necron who catches the flayed one virus transmogrifies into a basic warrior chassis. Because...erm...
That we don't have destroyer lychguards, crypteks, overlords, praetorians and what not.
That monsters get smash, but walkers don't.
GW allowing running and shooting all willy nilly, but running and assaulting? EMPEROR FORBID THAT EVER HAPPENING!
That gravity guns changed from 30k to 40k due to...well...I'm going to say Squats did it.
That the Orks are noted as having superior force-field technology to the Imperium; but their Power fields are actually worse than Void Shields, and personal force-field generators are something that only mekboyz have. And they only give cover; not invulnerable saves.
That Orks are noted as having superior teleportation technology to the Imperium, but last I checked, noting in the book deep strikes in by teleyporta.
That Lightning claws on terminators are so grotesquely inferior to TH/SS against virtually every target and GW expecting a 5-10 point difference being enough of an incentive to stay with Dual Claws.
That I can't get Orky chainfists when it's about the Orkiest weapon imaginable.
That we don't get beamy deffguns from DOW II.
That the venom cannon, in both variants is described as a heavy infantry/vehicle killing gun despite not being any good at either role, especially not in the numbers of shots you can get out of them.
That nobody has figured out how to reload combi-weapons despite over ten thousand years of use.
That the legendary Eldar sniper rifle relic's only advantage over any random Vindicaire's exitus rifle is range.
That said Exitus rifle can't shoot farther than a Ratling's long-las.
That random assassins have statlines equal to phoenix lords (ties into my complaints about the Phoenix Lord statlines being more befitting of Grand Exarchs rather than disciples of the god of war).
That Daemon Primarch Angron's statline is actually worse than Mortal Angron's statline in several places and special rules wise (though the WD rules for Daemon Angron are super-old)
That we don't have a gargantuan daemon prince to go with the gargantuan greater daemons (Be'lakor would have been perfect for this).
That Weirdboyz have become such sad, pitiful jokes.
That Gazghkull has the same S and T values as a regular warboss despite being taller than a carnifex.
That I cannot legally have Marshall Venner, a buffing Primaris Psyker, Yarrick, Straken, and Deddog all in the same Ogryn squad (maybe one day I'll be able to get power weapons without homebrews for them while we're at it) for the ultimate guard beatstick. It'd be awesome guys, I swear.
That a Vendetta is a better air superiority fighter than a thunderbolt despite the Vendetta basically being a Black-hawk in space with anti-tank missiles stuck onto it.
That the Vendetta actually has more guns than the Vulture despite the Vulture actually being a dedicated gunship.
That GW keeps on describing non-superheavy fliers as the premier space superiority fighter of X race and forgetting that in Battlefleet gothic, the standard space fighter is the 70 meter long (70% the height of 90s era Godzilla) Star Fury and that logically; all of these "space superiority" fighters would have that as what they're measuring against.
Genestealers are still overpriced for a unit that has very few options for actually surviving all the way to assault and thanks to being MEQ priced models with GEQ saves are going to be dying in droves without cover; and the loss of BRB tables has made even the broodlord delivery service much less viable. And when they get there, their weight of attacks isn't too amazing.
Ymgarl genestealers being removed because feth anyone who wants to assault the turn they put something on the table and feth anyone who liked Cthulhu genestealers.
Flesh hooks lost rending because feth you.
The Deathleaper autogets a warlord trait that needs it to be assassinating ICs to get the most out of it. The problem is that the Deathleaper is not going to survive against most ICs in a fight.
Lictors; the masters of ambush, will pop up and say "boo!" before getting swiftly gunned down, which is the opposite of an ambush. They're not even that stellar in assault so it's not like letting them charge when they appear would be too unbalancing.
The Deathleaper is not a synapse creature, even though the Trygon Prime and Lictor Alphas are perfect examples of the Hive Mind turning what is normally a non-synapse creature into a synapse creature.
Instinctive behavior got oh so much more unpleasant while synapse remains little more than a fearless bubble that lets you control your army without worrying about one out of every three units eating themselves or faffing about.
That Deathspitters don't get a buffed version for Monstrous Creatures like devourers do. I really liked the concept of the Deathscreamer grub I saw once; which turned MC Deathspitters into TL S7 AP5 Assault 6 (no range improvement) weapons that while pricier than the BL devourer by a hefty bit, gave the option for just that much more dakka.
Tyrannofex weapons are generally underwhelming for what you pay as I mentioned before, especially since despite it being a purpose built gun platform, it only has BS3. The Rupture cannon is remarkably underwhelming even when it does penetrate thanks to AP4, the Fleshborer hive is incredibly crappy due to being little more than 20 bolter pistol shots at BS3, and the Acid spray can't even kill marines. The spines and thorax swarms are rather dinky weapons for such a massive beast to boot.
The Tervigon got nerfed into the ground and yet it's still basically a need to have unit.
That a warrior brood can only have one barbed strangler or venom cannon each.
That tyranid weapon biomorphs no longer stack.
Abaddon's sword got nerfed really, really hard for little reason. Down from being an S8 reroll to wound instant death inflicting terror that got 1d6 extra attacks, it lost three strength, shred, and instant death, presumably so that people would use the LEGENDARY TALON OF HORUS (which bounces off of a Meganobz' wearable junkyard).
That C'tan of either stripe can only buy two powers, with the regular shard not having anything too spectacular. You can only really use one or two a turn so it's not game-breaking if someone sinks a boat-load of points into a C'tan shard.
Szeras and Anrakyr can't give their statline buffs to the Necron units that they'd actually be good on.
Szeras gets an awesome spider-lower body but no special rules from it.
Cryptek special characters are usually a waste as they prevent you from taking a royal court and can't be slotted into one.
The Eversor; the Assassin sent when the target and everything even tangentially related to the target must die in the most messy and spectacular fashion possible, of which a single one can outmatch an entire squad of Berserkers or send Genestealers packing (in body bags) both in fluff and in game, can only kill TEQs at range, and once in combat; is one powerklaw hit to the face away from being reduced to mush.
That I can't field multiple assassins of the same type. Do you know how awesome (and insanely expensive) it would be to field a five man squad of Eversors?
The Psycannon was changed from something unique and interesting to a psybolt assault cannon with an alternate firing mode.
So why is Draigo's super special sword not a Nemesis Force Sword anyway?
Draigo can wipe the floor with any Daemon, Psyker, or anything with MEQ and under saves and rampage through the warp like nobody's business, but a meganob squad? You're screwed dude.
I can haz nemesis force axe/maul?
Where does my Chaos Lord's gear go when he becomes a Daemon Prince?
Nobody ever thought to make a bike sized for terminators. Meganob bikerz man...
Meganobz can't cybork because...well you see....uhhh...
That GW doesn't do more with Cybork (and bionic) upgrades when they totally could use it to make for some really nice add ons.
Why don't we get to reroll redundant rolls on champions of chaos?
dementedwombat wrote: That the new Tau codex is so good people complain and refuse to play against me when I bring out the only army I've ever owned (and got my face beaten in with) since 3rd edition.
What's worse is when someone calls you a "bandwagoner" because Tau happen to be "OP" at the moment...even though you hopped on the "bandwagon" all the way back in fething 2006.
But no, my record with Tau hasn't been that great, either. I stopped keeping track of my W/L record after my losses more than doubled my wins (and who fething cares anyway, never really got that), so I've never experienced these easy wins or inherent overpoweredness with the Tau codex that people go on and on about. And now that they really areOP, I can't even think about bringing my army back out again. This kinda gak is exactly why 40k needs balance, and I'll never understand how there can be people out there who still argue otherwise. I literally can not play the fething game anymore, even if I WANTED to with the crappy 6th edition rules, and it's entirely because of bad game balance...and people being childish, whiny pricks, blaming me for all of GW's failings and accusing me of being a douchebag or otherwise lacking "morality" because I have the balls to want to play with an army that I picked 8 years ago, when I had absolutely no knowledge of 40k or its (lack of) balance and just thought they had the coolest models, but it's mostly game balance.
herpguy wrote: That there's people who actually enjoy playing armies that sit back and shoot all game.
Yeah, I don't like people who are different from me, either.
Oh gak, Kain posted while I was typing up mine.
Speaking of which, I would have much preferred the swordfish over the riptide, myself. Would have been more balanced, too, since vehicles suck in 6th (unless they're wave serpents I guess).
My big annoyance is with the Space Wolves codex. Specifically, the rule that says that ICs on wolfback can only join Fenrisian Wolves or Thunderwolf Cavalry, meaning that because of a technicality, you cannot have multiple Wolf Lords join together to make a super-squad without having a "glue" unit in there to attach everyone to it.
What really makes me mad is when you try to play a fun game or test a list for viability and your opponent runs his tournament win at all costs list. I love the fluff and its what got me into the game. I enjoy playing competitively but I also love to base my armies around some sort of accurate fluff.
I remember a huge game of Apoc where it was Imperium versus all. We set rules to make the game interesting and hold to some realistic background. But then somehow Eldrad and Vek ended up in the same skimmer.
I don't know that kind of disregard of fluff for power gaming really grinds my gears. It was a not competitive apoc game yet he still had to win.
Theschisack wrote: What really makes me mad is when you try to play a fun game or test a list for viability and your opponent runs his tournament win at all costs list.
But if you're testing a list for "viability" isn't that kinda what you'd want? I wouldn't consider a win against a super-casual "Just feth it!"-type of list a real test of my army's viability.
Theschisack wrote: What really makes me mad is when you try to play a fun game or test a list for viability and your opponent runs his tournament win at all costs list.
But if you're testing a list for "viability" isn't that kinda what you'd want? I wouldn't consider a win against a super-casual "Just feth it!"-type of list a real test of my army's viability.
That's a strawman. That he doesn't want to face a top-tier tournament list does not mean that he would prefer facing a super-casual list.
Theschisack wrote: What really makes me mad is when you try to play a fun game or test a list for viability and your opponent runs his tournament win at all costs list. I love the fluff and its what got me into the game. I enjoy playing competitively but I also love to base my armies around some sort of accurate fluff.
I remember a huge game of Apoc where it was Imperium versus all. We set rules to make the game interesting and hold to some realistic background. But then somehow Eldrad and Vek ended up in the same skimmer.
I don't know that kind of disregard of fluff for power gaming really grinds my gears. It was a not competitive apoc game yet he still had to win.
It's Apocalypse, why didn't anyone just Volcano Cannon the skimmer?
Riptides have wounds instead of an armor value and hull points.
Many codexes have useless units that are so obvious even one or two play tests should have shown it. (Banshees, Ogryn, Flayed ones etc.)
Armies can ally with themselves to break force org limits.
Armies can take "formations" that break force org limits and give special rules for no downside.
Models with multiple saves or 2+ invuln saves. Worse when they move 12/24' in a turn.
Vector Strike. So I get auto hits at high S and low AP just by moving over a unit, and they don't have any recourse? Why is this fun?
Monstrous creatures that make AP- or AP4 weapons AP2.
Units that get all the special rules at once, IE Tau, and don't pay anything for such massive ability.
Worthless psychic powers that you have 50% odds of getting.
Very inconsistent AA response. Some armies have great AA, others get nothing or one unit.
Chaospling wrote: Well it doesn't grind my gears but there are some strange rules out there:
Imperial Knights being able to stomp attack units over half its' size - even the Wraithknight which is higher can bestomped upon.
Walkers don't get the Hammer of Wrath rule: Eldar Wraithlords and Wraithknights have the rule but Dreadnoughts, Helbrutes and Killa Kans don't - they valse into combat, shake hands and then throw the gloves.
Big tough Obliterators having only Strength and Toughness 4.
Background curiosities:
Mortals being able to slay an Avatar in close combat.
Tyranid creatures being able to develop faster and beyond diseases and viruses than Gods and daemons can develop them even though they don't need the same kind of physical research.
Guardsmen being able to down a Helbrute by overheating their lasgun clip.
Obviously the Knight titan begins bashing the Wraithknight/Greater Demon/Riptide in the shins by means of it's armored head until the wraithknight/Greater Demon/Riptide falls over in pain.
Daemon Princes only having Ld 9 in 6th Ed.
Daemon Prince-"Oh, I'm a Daemon Prince, I have fought the Long War and will lead my triumphant host into battle."
Conniving Chaos Lord-"You can't do that."
Daemon Prince- "What!? Why not?"
Conniving Chaos Lord- "Well, I have higher leadership than you, so I have to be the Warlord."
Daemon Prince- " But you don't even have VotLW!"
Conniving Chaos Lord- "So what, sucker? You're now my slave!"
Not being able to have Khornate Sorcerers.
Okay, this is a bit far-fetched, but in the Gaunt's Ghosts books, there is in fact precedent for Khornate sorcery.
I would imagine that the Psyker powers would involve lots of sacrifices and blood.
Not being able to dedicate vehicles to specific Chaos powers.
I would have it so that you could dedicate any and all Chaos vehicles to Chaos Gods, as with the Decimator.
it would most likely made so that if you bought a dedicated transport, it would have to be dedicated to the same Chaos God as the unit, if you follow.
Chaos Lords with the MoS can't take Noise Weapons
Cultist Champions that roll Dark Apotheosis getting Power Armour.
This makes no sense. Where do they get power armour from?
Heck. Chaos Lords/Sorcerers with MoT can't take Inferno Bolts! That's annoying, too! Then again, it wouldn't matter if we could still take the Deathscreamer...
Daemon Princes only having Ld 9 in 6th Ed.
Daemon Prince-"Oh, I'm a Daemon Prince, I have fought the Long War and will lead my triumphant host into battle."
Conniving Chaos Lord-"You can't do that."
Daemon Prince- "What!? Why not?"
Conniving Chaos Lord- "Well, I have higher leadership than you, so I have to be the Warlord."
Daemon Prince- " But you don't even have VotLW!"
Conniving Chaos Lord- "So what, sucker? You're now my slave!"
Not being able to have Khornate Sorcerers.
Okay, this is a bit far-fetched, but in the Gaunt's Ghosts books, there is in fact precedent for Khornate sorcery.
I would imagine that the Psyker powers would involve lots of sacrifices and blood.
Not being able to dedicate vehicles to specific Chaos powers.
I would have it so that you could dedicate any and all Chaos vehicles to Chaos Gods, as with the Decimator.
it would most likely made so that if you bought a dedicated transport, it would have to be dedicated to the same Chaos God as the unit, if you follow.
Chaos Lords with the MoS can't take Noise Weapons
Cultist Champions that roll Dark Apotheosis getting Power Armour.
This makes no sense. Where do they get power armour from?
I will probably think of more later.
Daemon Princes are actually Ld8. VotLW is what makes them Leadership 9. Apparently being an almighty daemon of death turns you into a pussy. Maybe it is because they realise they are not eternal warrior any more.
Agreed. I never understood how necrons were such low WS and BS for their fluff. "Our foot soldiers are older than your entire civilization!" ya, and in those years before the great sleep they only got the aim of an Imperial Guard Commander (and thats assuming that Necrons dont have some kind of targeting software installed). This especially bothers me with Praetorians because they never hibernated. These elite warriors have been active (and presumably fighting/training) for OVER 60 MILLION YEARS and after all that they've only managed WS and BS 4?
EDIT:
Durandal wrote: Riptides have wounds instead of an armor value and hull points.
This too! and the same goes for the Dreadknight. They're WALKERS Dammit, they should have rules for walkers
Agreed. I never understood how necrons were such low WS and BS for their fluff. "Our foot soldiers are older than your entire civilization!" ya, and in those years before the great sleep they only got the aim of an Imperial Guard Commander (and thats assuming that Necrons dont have some kind of targeting software installed). This especially bothers me with Praetorians because they never hibernated. These elite warriors have been active (and presumably fighting/training) for OVER 60 MILLION YEARS and after all that they've only managed WS and BS 4?
Obviously their Windows 95 targeting software is holding them back. :-)
But otherwise, there's only so good someone can get and it seems BS4 is the limit for Necrons. And why shouldn't it be? They don't have brains or bodies anymore, no grey matter to take up new paths from training or muscles that learn certain moves after repeating them a thousand times. They're as good as they were when they abandoned flesh and they're not getting any better. Or maybe they've even degraded over the eons. Their entire race is a dead end.
Obviously their Windows 95 targeting software is holding them back. :-)
But otherwise, there's only so good someone can get and it seems BS4 is the limit for Necrons. And why shouldn't it be? They don't have brains or bodies anymore, no grey matter to take up new paths from training or muscles that learn certain moves after repeating them a thousand times. They're as good as they were when they abandoned flesh and they're not getting any better. Or maybe they've even degraded over the eons. Their entire race is a dead end.
Lol, thanks! now I have the image of Necron Warriors playing the windows startup sound when they activate in the tomb world
Ya I do agree that muscle memory would be lost on Necrons (piston memory?) and the majority of the Necrons are really just automatons, but the leaders still have most of their minds intact. Also a race as advanced as Necrons would probably have learning robots too, but that idea does sound more "Tau" than anything else
Agreed. I never understood how necrons were such low WS and BS for their fluff. "Our foot soldiers are older than your entire civilization!" ya, and in those years before the great sleep they only got the aim of an Imperial Guard Commander (and thats assuming that Necrons dont have some kind of targeting software installed). This especially bothers me with Praetorians because they never hibernated. These elite warriors have been active (and presumably fighting/training) for OVER 60 MILLION YEARS and after all that they've only managed WS and BS 4?
EDIT:
Durandal wrote: Riptides have wounds instead of an armor value and hull points.
This too! and the same goes for the Dreadknight. They're WALKERS Dammit, they should have rules for walkers
And also Necron units noted as supernaturally fast and graceful (Praetorians/Wraiths) are only I2 because statline copy pasting. And to add insult to injury the Praetorians hit at I1 due to their rods.
D'oh.
Oh and Lychguards noted as putting armor on top of their armored frames not having better saves than immortals.
We ran Lychguards and Praetorians with TEQ saves and more fitting WS/BS/I/A; wasn't really that bad and appropriate costing.
Also the hyerphase sword is not even remotely designed like a sword. When we gave the necrons hyperphase power weapons rather than swords, the default...whacky thing became an axe. Kitbashed khopesh's are the new swords.
Also, remember when Necron warscythes had gauss flayers (or were they blasters?) in them? Those looked cool. Even if my pariahs very rarely did much damage with them.
The fact that a Landspeeder with a Weapon destroyed, cannot allow the Pilot or Passenger to us a Bolt Pistol, or kamikaze their Vehicle into a bigger one to kill it.
E.g Roll BS to see if you manage to hit the other vehicle/ Monstrous Vehicle or Walker, then resolve based as a D strength hit...
Suicide Wave tactics, yes you lose the points, but so long as you kill something more than you all to the good. Not viable against anything with IWND.
Would make RIPTIDES and others think twice when a Suicide Squadron of Landspeeders comes barrelling at them.
Same with ork vehicles or anyone who can Spam cheap skimmers or massed cheap vehicles..
There aren't enough last ditch rules e,g when you are assualted, e.g "You Declare a last Stand your unit cannot break-off or retreat - If you lose the Combat you will be utterly destroyed, but every member of the Unit gains +1A"
"A Unit Armed with a Plasma Gun can self detonate"
"A unit with a KRAK Grenade can do a Suicide attack against an MC or Walker, grappling itself against the enemy unit and detonating itself - Roll against the WS, if sucessful the Target takes an Strength 8, rending hit as this against a weakspot"
THese are just some silly spare of the minute examples but you should have more Actions in Melee, to really make even the most basic troops more dangerous to the Elites or MC's.
