I am writing to express my disappointment with the AU pricing for Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition.
The UK price, 50 GBP, equates to $89.75 AUD and $84.01 USD at current exchange rates. US customers pay $85 (almost exactly 1:1 on the exchange rate) yet Australian customers are expected to pay $140, over a 50% markup.
I do not expect that Games Workshop will change its exploitative pricing policy on the basis of one email, but at least now you know why I did not pre-order and will not purchase this set on principle. I certainly can afford $140, but enough is enough. My son and I will make do without 7th edition.
Regards,
This isn't a ragepost. But simply "not purchasing" or yarring PDFs doesn't actually send a message to GW. If you're in the same position, please consider sending a polite mail to GW customer service so they get the message. Who knows, if enough people do, maybe they might care.
Isn't this the case for anything Australians buy though? It's not just GW doing this but ALL business. Are they not following Australian government law?
Australia tax isn't an actual tax. It refers to a common practice for many companies to exploit Australia's limited consumer choice to arbitrarily jack up prices.
Adobe was recently hauled in front of an enquiry over their Creative Cloud pricing, which charged Australians a premium, and they were unable to explain why other than "we are free to charge whatever we want". They have since matched the AUD price to the USD price.
Oh I thought it was a law to help the Brick and Mortar stores. Thanks for the Clarification.
I know what you mean. While not as extreme as you guys, but we have to pay 20-30% more than Americans as well when we are either on par or about 10% difference from the US buck. No explanation except for being exploited as well.
I just picked up WD from my local GW and explained to the owner that he was losing a preorder because of the exploitative pricing disparity. I hope he mentions that to his HQ rep - the store owners should be every bit as cross about this as consumers are, as it hurts sales and forces people to import or ebay.
We've been paying more since they sold stuff here. Back then the reason was how strong the British pound was at the time (IIRC is was nearly 3:1 Aussie dollars). When the Aussie dollar got far stronger, they made new excuses - import tax, rent, cost of living, everyone in Australia is a miner and drives a gold plated Mercedes, etc.
It was, however, pretty clear once online sales started getting big that we were simply getting shafted. They made that even clearer when they embargoed European retailers from reselling outside of the European Union - there's very few countries that made a huge difference to, and Australia and New Zealand were the biggest.
They're not going to change unless they get a change of management, and even then I doubt it. The best things I can suggest are:
1. Accept it, and pay through the nose for their stuff.
2. Trawl ebay for bargains, though this makes getting what you want pretty hit and miss.
3. Give your hobby dollars to a better company. There's plenty of wargames out there these days.
the shrouded lord wrote: Interesting. Personally I will hope to find the rules part of the new book on eBay some where, because damn I hate Aussie prices.
See, there's the problem.
We shouldn't have to look for the rules section only on ebay as a bargain. That's absurd. And shows just how bad their pricing is.
There is a place called oz hammer I purchased from a while ago. I am fairly sure he just buys GW goods from UK at their prices and sells to us as a profit. Heck even with the annoying shipping costs its cheaper than GW. Not the greatest bargain, but if this guy can buy the goods in another country and sell it for a profit then thats a huge no no.
the shrouded lord wrote: Interesting. Personally I will hope to find the rules part of the new book on eBay some where, because damn I hate Aussie prices.
See, there's the problem.
We shouldn't have to look for the rules section only on ebay as a bargain. That's absurd. And shows just how bad their pricing is.
Yep, 'I'll buy part of it second hand for a much more reasonable price' is in no way a legitimate workaround.
There really is no justification for this, but even worse than that it looked like they tried to force our prices on the US for a while last year (WoC plastic hero release in Feb '13 was the same price for each),
Until buying 3 pots of GW paint recently (nuln oil really is very good : /), I had not bought a single GW product in Australia. It's all been imported from overseas - first Maelstrom in the UK, and now Discount Games Store and BulletBits in the US.
I've also resorted to alternative means for both rules and models. If they want to shaft us, I'll shaft them back twice as hard. I'll just spend what I saved doing this on companies that deserve the money. Australia has the highest piracy per capita. Is it because we're a nation founded on criminals, or because companies always try to shaft us with pricing and distribution? Probably both, but for most people I know it's definitely the latter.
It doesn't help that the primary Australian wargaming forum (WGAU) bans mentioning non-sponsors so you can't help brothers out by pointing them to the cheapest places to get miniatures. It also has a brigade of GW white knights that leap on any criticism of GW. I'm confident that this is substantially to blame for the recalcitrance of GW in this area, as WGAU basically enforces the regional pricing for GW.
I'll be writing them a nice letter to show my outrage at the amount they charge. The usual excuse is shipping it around the world which is completely bull****. Shipping is not that much especially when you have to send, discounted etc.
Just my two cents.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yonan I like to think I'm a pirate or convict...
Just wanted to say the pricing on your products here in New Zealand and Australia are awful. It is more than likely that you get these emails everyday (I hope that you do) but there is no reason for you to charge so much more for your products here than elsewhere in the world. I would understand if you have a good reason for the huge jump in pricing, however I am certain that you do not have such a reason. If there is a good reason please enlighten me.
A lot of policies you have a bad enough as it is.
I know things will not change, its what many players expect of Games Workshop now days, but I thought id let you know how disappointing it is. I have purchased things from you in the past, not fully aware of the extent I have been overcharged. No more will I be ripped off, so unfortunately I will no longer be buying from Games Workshop.
Again, if there was a reason for this increase or if the price increase was not so high, I would not be having to do this and nor would I feel this way.
Cheers
This is what I sent, should have wrote it, waited an hour then sent it. Dont know how good it is. Didnt want to seem angry or insulting etc. I have got a few others to join in. Not sure how many emails they get a day, but hopefully these wont be missed. I labelled my subject "Need Help With an Issue" so that it may have a higher chance of being read.
Already spotted some errors -.- always wait before sending grumpy messages
-Loki- wrote: They're not going to do anything.
1. Accept it, and pay through the nose for their stuff.
2. Trawl ebay for bargains, though this makes getting what you want pretty hit and miss.
3. Give your hobby dollars to a better company. There's plenty of wargames out there these days.
The problem here is that option 1 is essentially submitting to being exploited, and 2 and 3 hurt my local store. I have an interest in keeping my local store open because I like playing there, and I have no interest in other systems. I understand that GW won't change because of one complaint, and by and large I will continue to support the local store because there's something in it for me.
There's a very good chance my mail has already been deleted, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
Just wanted to say the pricing on your products here in New Zealand and Australia are awful. It is more than likely that you get these emails everyday (I hope that you do) but there is no reason for you to charge so much more for your products here than elsewhere in the world. I would understand if you have a good reason for the huge jump in pricing, however I am certain that you do not have such a reason. If there is a good reason please enlighten me.
A lot of policies you have a bad enough as it is.
I know things will not change, its what many players expect of Games Workshop now days, but I thought id let you know how disappointing it is. I have purchased things from you in the past, not fully aware of the extent I have been overcharged. No more will I be ripped off, so unfortunately I will no longer be buying from Games Workshop.
Again, if there was a reason for this increase or if the price increase was not so high, I would not be having to do this and nor would I feel this way.
Cheers
This is what I sent, should have wrote it, waited an hour then sent it. Dont know how good it is. Didnt want to seem angry or insulting etc. I have got a few others to join in. Not sure how many emails they get a day, but hopefully these wont be missed. I labelled my subject "Need Help With an Issue" so that it may have a higher chance of being read.
Already spotted some errors -.- always wait before sending grumpy messages
it's obvious there's some over markup but your not going to try and tell me there's no additional cost of business in Australia over America or Europe without eliciting a great deal of laughter. I believe the Adobe lawsuit was regarding a digital product was it not? Digital products should obviously be priced similarly to exchange rates....but physical product is obviously going to be marked up to higher shipping costs, overhead (IE paying employees in Australia and what not) and doubtless other factors like taxes or tarriffs on imported goods.
Is 50% to high? No doubt....but I'm betting not by as much as you think.
I am un sure why.. but I do think the issue is allot bigger than each separate company specifically trying to rip Aussies off. There must be some structural reason why..
I would hesitate to blame GW specifically (all though I understand it is an overly expensive hobby compared to other toy soldiers)
What I generally do is but my models from the US and the books from my FLGS. Models I can wait for but the rules I kinda want instantly and it feels good to at least give some of my money to my local store.
In Canada at any rate, much of the price disparity comes from the absurd import tariffs the government charges companies to bring their goods into the country. If the situation is similar in Australia, perhaps writing to your member of Parliament would also be helpful.
There is also a sort of "Canada tax" that comes from the generally higher cost of living here. The minimum wage is far higher, electricity is more expensive, taxes are higher, rent is more expensive, and so on. So companies raise their prices and consumers pay for the higher cost of doing business. The large US chain Target opened here not long ago and its prices are far higher than in its US stores for the same goods. So it isn't just GW that does this, it seems to be common practice to pass these costs on to the consumer. Again, this may be something worth addressing with your member of Parliament as well as with the company.
Davor wrote: Isn't this the case for anything Australians buy though? It's not just GW doing this but ALL business. Are they not following Australian government law?
Yes.
The vast majority of products from TV's to Fuel (Gas) to Iphones, Cars, Electricity, household appliances etc.. are more expensive here.
I also believe there is some sort of competitive tax on digital books so that the price of a digital copy of a production is closer to the book version (I think its to help book stores?)
Orktavius wrote: it's obvious there's some over markup but your not going to try and tell me there's no additional cost of business in Australia over America or Europe without eliciting a great deal of laughter. I believe the Adobe lawsuit was regarding a digital product was it not? Digital products should obviously be priced similarly to exchange rates....but physical product is obviously going to be marked up to higher shipping costs, overhead (IE paying employees in Australia and what not) and doubtless other factors like taxes or tarriffs on imported goods.
Is 50% to high? No doubt....but I'm betting not by as much as you think.
We can import items from overseas discounters, pay courier shipping and pay less than items are wholesaled for here by GW. You want laughter? It's directed exclusively at you for that ridiculous statement as the additional cost is so far below the current additional cost that it's hilarious you think otherwise. Other companies that aren't trying to price gouge manage to do it just fine.
I agree with the sentiment. It is getting to that ridiculous stage, especially when we know there'll be associated expansions and etc. that we'll also have to purchase. If the $140 cost of the rulebook included everything needed, it would be a bit more palatable.
Orktavius wrote: it's obvious there's some over markup but your not going to try and tell me there's no additional cost of business in Australia over America or Europe without eliciting a great deal of laughter. I believe the Adobe lawsuit was regarding a digital product was it not? Digital products should obviously be priced similarly to exchange rates....but physical product is obviously going to be marked up to higher shipping costs, overhead (IE paying employees in Australia and what not) and doubtless other factors like taxes or tarriffs on imported goods.
Is 50% to high? No doubt....but I'm betting not by as much as you think.
Yes, the Adobe inquiry was in regards to digital media. There was also one involving iTunes downloads. However, in regards to the higher costs associated with doing business in Australia, I'm not sure if your argument holds up. Other gaming stores (including brick and mortar) who stock GW products manage to sell them at a substantial discount as compared to the GW retail prices. For example, the SM Battle Force retails from GW at $350, whereas I can find it from several other stores going for $275. If they can do so, and (I assume) still turn a profit, why can't GW? Another thing I don't like about GW stores is their sales push. I understand that it's their job, but other FLGSs don't seem to push you as hard to make a purchase (but this could just be my local GW).
Generally, I exclusively buy GW products from other Australian gaming stores. That way GW still receives a share (FLGS have to buy their stock too!) and a local shop gets some profit as well.
Orktavius wrote: it's obvious there's some over markup but your not going to try and tell me there's no additional cost of business in Australia over America or Europe without eliciting a great deal of laughter. I believe the Adobe lawsuit was regarding a digital product was it not? Digital products should obviously be priced similarly to exchange rates....but physical product is obviously going to be marked up to higher shipping costs, overhead (IE paying employees in Australia and what not) and doubtless other factors like taxes or tarriffs on imported goods.
Is 50% to high? No doubt....but I'm betting not by as much as you think.
40k 7th ebook edition is $60 US and $80 AUD. That is a digital product. $60 USD is $64.09 AUD on current exchange rates. Nobody has said it should be on parity, but there is blatant price gouging and government investigations have confirmed it.
I would like to begin by stating how much I truly do enjoy and appreciate the quality of (most) of the products you have been releasing over the past few years - and that’s precisely why this email is so difficult for me to write, it pains me that you have taken advantage of your Australian customers to the point where this email is necessary.
I appreciate that the cost of doing business has increased over the years (and I expect it will continue to do so), however I cannot fathom any reason why we Australians and others in nearby parts of the world (e.g. New Zealand) must pay so much more to purchase your products than your customers in the USA and the UK.
I would very much appreciate a serious, truthful response as to why this is the case, and would ask you to reconsider your pricing scheme, as it is destroying your business here in Australia. The local bricks and mortar shops are in many cases struggling to stay open because of the ridiculous prices you would have them charge - they have to massively discount what they charge in order to compete with online competition and in doing so they harm their own bottom line, making it harder and harder to stay open each year. Furthermore, in the last several months I have seen an alarming number of recast miniatures in use, as well as open discussion of where to purchase such copyright infringing products on social media outlets such as Facebook, and even in the games stores themselves (the patrons, rather than the owners).
I would suggest that it is in your best interest as a company who wants to continue to do business in the growing market of Australian miniature wargaming to strongly reconsider your pricing structure down-under, it is causing numerous people to abandon your games, and I myself am about to do the same unless something changes. As far as things stand at the moment, I am forced to buy sub-par second-hand products to play the game I enjoy, because I refuse to give you any more of my money for so little return on my investment.
I know that I am just one person writing to complain about what I perceive to be your absurd policy, but it is my hope that this email, along with the many others I know you have received will make some dent on this matter.
Regards,
Also I'll be posting this thread on the various 40k groups I'm a part of on Facebook, hopefully some more people will see this and email in as well.
PiPaPo wrote: For example, the SM Battle Force retails from GW at $350, whereas I can find it from several other stores going for $275.
Which I bought from the US for $177.
!!!
Damn, I wish I wasn't so impatient. When I want something, I want it within a couple days
Was that through a retailer or private person?
Another thing I should mention, I also like purchasing through stores other than GW because they usually stock several other producer's products. So, I can buy my tac squad as well as some Vallejo paints and some objective markers from Secret Weapon, etc. etc. in one fell swoop.
ruprecht wrote:They charge it because we pay it. Until we don't.
So your solution is trying to change someone else's behavior?
Hmm...
I'm not once said it would solve the problem. But If GW don't get complaints, all they have to go on are sales figures. Next step is local MPs and consumer protection authorities. It worked with Adobe.
captain bloody fists wrote: What really grinds my gears is that just two year's ago I forked out the same amount for a rulebook that was to last 5 or so year's.
Me too bro, but there are a lot of other threads for that
Orktavius wrote: it's obvious there's some over markup but your not going to try and tell me there's no additional cost of business in Australia over America or Europe without eliciting a great deal of laughter. I believe the Adobe lawsuit was regarding a digital product was it not? Digital products should obviously be priced similarly to exchange rates....but physical product is obviously going to be marked up to higher shipping costs, overhead (IE paying employees in Australia and what not) and doubtless other factors like taxes or tarriffs on imported goods.
Is 50% to high? No doubt....but I'm betting not by as much as you think.
You obviously didn't follow that.
While Apple was actually fairly apologetic about it, stating their prices on iTunes were more driven by licensing from the music, book and film industries (which is absilutely understandable) and that their hardware is basically at parity but a little more charged in Australia due to the usual distance excuses, their 'little more' really is a little more. Like under $100 on the top model iPad, not 50% more just because.
Adobe and Microsoft? They basically said 'feth you, geo-blocking prices isn't illegal, come back and complain when it is', basically admitting yes, they're fething us in the ass, no they're not going to stop because they're allowed to.
It's very easy to see which side Games Workshop falls on.
-Loki- wrote: They're not going to do anything. 1. Accept it, and pay through the nose for their stuff. 2. Trawl ebay for bargains, though this makes getting what you want pretty hit and miss. 3. Give your hobby dollars to a better company. There's plenty of wargames out there these days.
The problem here is that option 1 is essentially submitting to being exploited, and 2 and 3 hurt my local store. I have an interest in keeping my local store open because I like playing there, and I have no interest in other systems. I understand that GW won't change because of one complaint, and by and large I will continue to support the local store because there's something in it for me.
There's a very good chance my mail has already been deleted, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
There in lies the problem. You like Games Workshops products, and play at a Games Workshop store, and don't have exposure to the rest of the hobby. Which is 100% fine. Just be aware that, however, it means you'll be paying these prices. For GW, whether you pre ordered it or not doesn't matter - you're going to buy it anyway.
-Loki- wrote: There in lies the problem. You like Games Workshops products, and play at a Games Workshop store, and don't have exposure to the rest of the hobby. Which is 100% fine. Just be aware that, however, it means you'll be paying these prices. For GW, whether you pre ordered it or not doesn't matter - you're going to buy it anyway.
You're quite right and I do give up a lot of my consumer power because of the decisions I make. I've been playing 40k since Rogue Trader and my brand & store loyalty is strong, which hurts me and I accept that. And while I don't think my individual complaint, or even a hundred Dakkanaut complaints will force GW to change much if at all, I'm doing what I can with the limited power I have to try.
And no, I'm not buying the 7ed set. Ever. I may buy a separate Rulez release or buy DV again when it's repacked, and yes I'll buy Valkyries and Land Raiders and Guardsmen (oh my!) and say "please may I have another" when GW dickpunches me with the 50% on those, but this sale is gone as a matter of principle. And now GW and my store know it's gone, and precisely why. For what it's worth, even if that is nothing.
stealth edit: Messaged to my store on FB:
Hi, message for Andrew to explain what I was saying in the store when I picked up WD today. I really want to support the store and I buy all my and my son's minis there except FW stuff - I believe in "pay where you play" and my issue isn't with the store.
The issue is with GW's AU pricing, which is 50% marked up over the same items in the US. For example 7ed is 50 GBP / $85 USD / $140 AUD. 50 pounds is 85 USD, so the US pricing is spot on the exchange rate. 50 pounds is $90 AUD, so we are being gouged over 50% more for the same item.
The same applies even to digital products - 7ed digital is $60 USD ($64 AUD) but we're charged $80 AUD.
I understand 40k is an expensive hobby and I have no problem paying retail, especially to support your great store. But I have an issue with being exploited by GW to the tune of 50% more for the same retail items.
This is why I wanted to let you know rather than just buying on eBay or importing (which only hurts your store), so that you can tell your management that you are losing sales because of the price gouging.
Here is an video that is semi-relevant. The jist of it is that boycotting rarely works because it doesn't usually send the message that "We are not buying product X because of reason Y". Rather it sends the message that the consumer simply doesn't want the product anymore leading to it's demise. Rather, what really sends the message home to companies is the gnashing of teeth, the whining and etc. because most companies care about their image in the eyes of the consumers.
However, Games Workshop gives no feths either way which complicates the issue.
PiPaPo wrote: For example, the SM Battle Force retails from GW at $350, whereas I can find it from several other stores going for $275.
Which I bought from the US for $177.
!!!
Damn, I wish I wasn't so impatient. When I want something, I want it within a couple days
Discount Games Store in the US, great shop for Aussies to buy GW stuff from. Very much worth the couple weeks wait to save so much cash and they're great guys.
Davor wrote: Isn't this the case for anything Australians buy though? It's not just GW doing this but ALL business. Are they not following Australian government law?
Nah. Itunes prices are the same as they are in the US. Computer games sell for about 120 here, so about double US prices. It depends on the market. We do generally pay more, although we pay a lot more than we used to because our dollar is so much stronger than it was when this price difference started.
Part of it is our welfare system. Doesn't help the average joe schmoe who doesn't live off dole payments.
Queenslanders, I suggest you buy from Alpha Hobbies - they mark down by 25% and Adam (the owner) runs a lot of the tournaments in and around SE queensland.
-Loki- wrote: There in lies the problem. You like Games Workshops products, and play at a Games Workshop store, and don't have exposure to the rest of the hobby. Which is 100% fine. Just be aware that, however, it means you'll be paying these prices. For GW, whether you pre ordered it or not doesn't matter - you're going to buy it anyway.
You're quite right and I do give up a lot of my consumer power because of the decisions I make. I've been playing 40k since Rogue Trader and my brand & store loyalty is strong, which hurts me and I accept that. And while I don't think my individual complaint, or even a hundred Dakkanaut complaints will force GW to change much if at all, I'm doing what I can with the limited power I have to try.
And no, I'm not buying the 7ed set. Ever. I may buy a separate Rulez release or buy DV again when it's repacked, and yes I'll buy Valkyries and Land Raiders and Guardsmen (oh my!) and say "please may I have another" when GW dickpunches me with the 50% on those, but this sale is gone as a matter of principle. And now GW and my store know it's gone, and precisely why. For what it's worth, even if that is nothing.
stealth edit: Messaged to my store on FB:
Hi, message for Andrew to explain what I was saying in the store when I picked up WD today. I really want to support the store and I buy all my and my son's minis there except FW stuff - I believe in "pay where you play" and my issue isn't with the store.
The issue is with GW's AU pricing, which is 50% marked up over the same items in the US. For example 7ed is 50 GBP / $85 USD / $140 AUD. 50 pounds is 85 USD, so the US pricing is spot on the exchange rate. 50 pounds is $90 AUD, so we are being gouged over 50% more for the same item.
The same applies even to digital products - 7ed digital is $60 USD ($64 AUD) but we're charged $80 AUD.
I understand 40k is an expensive hobby and I have no problem paying retail, especially to support your great store. But I have an issue with being exploited by GW to the tune of 50% more for the same retail items.
This is why I wanted to let you know rather than just buying on eBay or importing (which only hurts your store), so that you can tell your management that you are losing sales because of the price gouging.
I'd be surprised if that message is not deleted pretty quickly.
This may help, but it doesnt really explain why. There is more on the site which may help but I havent really looked yet.
But given that massed shipping is cheaper than minor shipping, its pretty crazy that we can still get it elsewhere for cheaper over all.
LOL sorry did a comparison just for fun on San Diego, CA. and Sydney, What do you mean I pay more for Coffee, Rice, Cheese and tennis court rentals!!!!!
n0t_u wrote: Which then the really out there plan is "hey, why don't we stop them importing!"
Which they have tried to do, by banning their stockists from exporting internationally. A move which in hindsight seems purpose-designed to protect price disparities.
An excellent plan to drive customers away from your affiliated stores and get them buying from third party stores, 2nd hand models and recasts from China.
Hi
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I passed on your concerns and have received the following response:
Good morning Andrew
Thank you for passing on your customers concerns.
Pricing for all countries are given to us by our UK parent company.
They take into consideration many factors such as,
Cost of labour in every country
Cost of shop rentals and outgoings in every company
Cost of services in every country eg electricity water etc
Cost of insurances in every country
Costs of living in every country
It should be noted that for 2 years in a row now the rest of the world have had significant price rises where as oz and NZ have had 2 years of zero increases
These are some of the variables that go into cost of goods decided on for every country from the UK Cheers
Ken'
Having been in the Hobby for 30 yrs and seen what it was like without GW presence; Having worked for GW for more than 11 years on my last tour and following a 6 year break returned in January to run the store; I can say that without our current price structure for Australia, the reality would be that store's like [store] and people like myself wouldn't be part of providing Hobby Support here in Australia.
I also remember the days when there was no GW presence in the country, and we had to order everything from the UK, so I do appreciate having the stores. And while I appreciate the response, all of the above costs are operating expenses, with the exception of "cost of living" which is as far as I can see shorthand for "they are used to paying high prices, so let's charge high prices too". And it doesn't explain the gouging on digital products, which are a separate division and involve none of those operating expenses.
Anyone able to fact check the "no price increases in 2 years" claim?
ya cry me a river I get charged a import fee and pay 15% taxes and my province has the lowest income in Canada. The new book cost 100$ with a 15% tax which makes it 115$ then when it reaches me in the mail I will need to pay a fee of 15% again on the 115$ making it 132$ where the average income in NS is 30-40k a year. buy from forge is even worse where canadian dollar almost half brit pound so 50pounds is about 90 $ with a shipping of 12 % i think it is now then taxes on that "with the shipping added and then they make me pay a import fee to forge then when it gets to the mail it is more import. I bought a monster from forge "forget which one" for 50 pounds and ended paying 153$ for it
ruprecht wrote: Anyone able to fact check the "no price increases in 2 years" claim?
I'm pretty sure he's wrong. I know we didn't receive the big model increases that other countries did, but I'm pretty sure we did receive some increases.
Not that it matters because GW are now hiding price increases with 'repacks'. For example, the Dire Avengers 100% price increase by keeping the price the same but repacking it with half the contents. To Games Workshop, they don't count that as a price increase. To anyone with a brain, it is.
It sucks badly, and there is no easy way a round it. But, this is the game we play, so I assume most of us will buy it.
Importing is a great way to get around the price hike, and so is ebay trawling, but the fact remains that the shipping, conversion rates and getting burned occasionally makes it far less attractive.
Surely they can afford to lower prices. Unless Australia has a larger wargaming community then we realise, and we're actually the buffer for their finance reports.
Maybe we should aim our emails at the UK parent company.
Another part of the 'Australian Tax' (an actual one this time) is the new import fee. My gaming group combined our forge world orders for the free shipping and got slapped with a $250 tax.
So I just did some rough numbers based on the 2012/2013 annual report. A couple of interesting things poked out:
It costs roughly the same to operate a store in the US as it does in Australia (US 0.14M GBP/year, AU 0.15M GBP/year) so the operating expenses argument is a simplistic red herring.
Markups on landed stock (as far as I can extrapolate) are about US 88%, and AU 127% - this is the "Australia Tax".
Revenue per store (GBP) is about 27% lower per store in AU than in the US (0.37M US vs 0.29M AU).
US sales increased 7.8% vs AU sales dipping -4%.
While the populations are vastly different, all that matters is the population density in the store catchments. I'm going to guess it's higher in the US, but by how much?
So the problem in AU seems to be not the costs, but the lower revenues against those costs. Australians don't shop in the GW stores as much as the Americans. I imagine this is partly due to lower population density in the store catchments, but anecdotally Australians are far more likely to import because of the local pricing. And the fact that revenues have dropped while population density and brand awareness have increased makes me think it's more about prices.
Therefore, GW are essentially asking customers to subsidise the stores by paying 30-50% more until enough timmies can be engaged to make more reasonable prices sustainable. So Andrew's response is quite accurate: the prices are necessary to keep the stores open until revenues improve. Unfortunately they won't until a) the prices drop (a Catch-22), population density increases significantly (long-term only) or a greater percentage of the population becomes engaged in the Hobby (which requires expensive premium location stores).
The choice for me now as a consumer is: do I value the local stores more than the extra money I have to spend to keep them open? And the best thing you can do for prices is to help get more people playing.
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Farseer Anath'lan wrote: Another part of the 'Australian Tax' (an actual one this time) is the new import fee. My gaming group combined our forge world orders for the free shipping and got slapped with a $250 tax.
How much was the actual order? $250 tax on a GBP 250 order (the threshold for free shipping) seems a lot. The Customs & Border Protection site says that import duty still only applies to imports over A$1,000?
ruprecht wrote: So I just did some rough numbers based on the 2012/2013 annual report. A couple of interesting things poked out:
It costs roughly the same to operate a store in the US as it does in Australia (US 0.14M GBP/year, AU 0.15M GBP/year) so the operating expenses argument is a simplistic red herring.
Markups on landed stock (as far as I can extrapolate) are about US 88%, and AU 127% - this is the "Australia Tax".
Revenue per store (GBP) is about 27% lower per store in AU than in the US (0.37M US vs 0.29M AU).
US sales increased 7.8% vs AU sales dipping -4%.
While the populations are vastly different, all that matters is the population density in the store catchments. I'm going to guess it's higher in the US, but by how much?
So the problem in AU seems to be not the costs, but the lower revenues against those costs. Australians don't shop in the GW stores as much as the Americans. I imagine this is partly due to lower population density in the store catchments, but anecdotally Australians are far more likely to import because of the local pricing.
Therefore, GW are essentially asking customers to subsidise the stores by paying 30-50% more. So Andrew's response is quite accurate: the prices are necessary to keep the stores open until revenues improve. Unfortunately they won't until a) the prices drop (a Catch-22), population density increases significantly (long-term only) or a greater percentage of the population becomes engaged in the Hobby (which requires expensive premium location stores).
The choice for me now as a consumer is: do I value the local stores more than the extra money I have to spend to keep them open?
Same problem here in New Zealand. There are only two brick and mortar stores nearby that sell 40k. One barely ever holds 40k games (Magic the gathering is the in thing apparently) and the other is nearby in relative terms because it's still a bit too far away to make it a regular haunt. Because of this the only games I play are at mine or a mate's so what incentive is there to go all the way to a "local" store that doesn't even host tournaments or games when it costs just as much to sit at home in my shorts and order online. Most of my army is from online stores before GW went and brought out their new policy and shut down half the bit sites out there.
I still love the game and I'd love to support GW but it's getting to the point that it seems like the only way this game would be worth playing is if I lived in the States or England/Europe. Just for the record, I live in Auckland so I'm not complaining as though I live in the middle of nowhere. I know I don't speak for those who live closer to gaming clubs and shops and such but I know a good number of people in the same position I am. As a consumer, you don't feel bad for not supporting the local nail salon, right? But why not? It's a niche service, usually privately owned that only a few people would frequent. So why should I feel bad about not supporting a local gaming store when they don't offer me anything I need or want?
ruprecht wrote: Anyone able to fact check the "no price increases in 2 years" claim?
I'm pretty sure he's wrong. I know we didn't receive the big model increases that other countries did, but I'm pretty sure we did receive some increases.
Not that it matters because GW are now hiding price increases with 'repacks'. For example, the Dire Avengers 100% price increase by keeping the price the same but repacking it with half the contents. To Games Workshop, they don't count that as a price increase. To anyone with a brain, it is.
I'm not 100% sure what's going on there. I could have sworn there were some flat price rises but it's possible he isn't completely full of gak.
Having said that, even if there where technically no price increases, GW have moved to a new system where instead of raising everything 10% at a certain time of the year they simply up the costs of all the new things they bring out. Terminators didn't suddenly jump from $65 to $69 to $74 like they used to but at the same time when the new dark angels termis came out they where at $75. (Huh, I thought that was worse, but I guess the point stands.)
As well there was the complete bs of the dire avengers box giving you half the number of models for the same price.
So, he might TECHNICALLY have a point, but I'd still throw those dire avengers, $30 plastic heroes and $120 razorback + command squad just to get that chaplain back in his face.
So how does all these costs translate to non gw store's like my local gaming haunt. They obviously have to purchase the products from gw to sell to their patrons.
They buy it from GW as a trade sale at 50-65% of the retail price. They then mark it up and sell it on.
GW greatly dislikes this and for some reason seems to be stuck wanting all those trade sales (made up over half their sales only a few years ago) but also wanting the full 100% of their retail price.
They are now in the middle of an awkward dance where they are trying to restrict trade sales by moving a lot of things to direct only but have to pull them form their own stores as well since they can't stock things they refuse to sell to FLGS.
Yeah, it is only $1000+ that gets taxed. The problem is, that for some of the guys that weren't buying much, combining was best for them, and for a lot of us it was for convenience. It wasn't the first time we'd done it, but first since the tax. I was pointing out that it isn't getting cheaper and easier, even though GW has nothing to do with that particular issue. It still makes life harder for players.
It can't be that hard to sell at cheaper prices. GW makes a significant profit off of selling to FLGS, a fair indication of just how cheap their product actually is to manufacture.
One thing I would like clarified is why a Riptide is US $85 and AUD $90, whereas the rulebook is US $85 and AUD $140. Surely that much of a markup can't be due to weight difference on shipping, right?
PrinceRaven wrote: "Oh no, people aren't buying our models because they're too expensive!"
"Quick, raise the prices!"
"Genius! If less people are buying at higher prices they pick up the slack those true fans left behind when they abandoned the hobby for that warmafaux stuff!"
As a new zealand player, i say kudos to you. The markup is indeed inexplicable and exploitative down under and although i think by now gw have received enough angry emails to know simply not to read any of them, i commend you for actually doing something constructive.
Many thanks for your email regarding to Australian prices.
Our prices are set for Australia at the level that ensures we can support our Australian business, including all our Hobby Centres and their staff which recruit and support many happy Hobbyists across the country. If we sold our products at UK prices to Australian customers, we would unfortunately be unable to sustain our operation there. We work hard to protect our employees jobs, the success of our business, and ultimately the health of the Hobby in every country in which we operate.
While I understand that you may be unhappy with our decision, I hope the explanation above is helpful regarding our prices.
They must have prepared a "Australian Price Defense" Statement and use it for occasions like this. I wouldnt be surprised if they still use it for many years to come.
It doesnt explain much really though. I mean any business can say that about any of their prices. There are no specifics. Usually means they are beating around the bush. Answering without the answer meaning anything at all.
PiPaPo wrote: For example, the SM Battle Force retails from GW at $350, whereas I can find it from several other stores going for $275.
Which I bought from the US for $177.
!!!
Damn, I wish I wasn't so impatient. When I want something, I want it within a couple days
Discount Games Store in the US, great shop for Aussies to buy GW stuff from. Very much worth the couple weeks wait to save so much cash and they're great guys.
I have got a fair bit of stuff from DGS in the past but when I went to get the 7th Edition Rulebook, with shipping, it was basically the same amount as going into GW and coughing up.
I "cheap-out" on most things in relation to this hobby but this time around, I folded. I feel dirty. Impatiently dirty.
Many thanks for your email regarding to Australian prices.
Our prices are set for Australia at the level that ensures we can support our Australian business, including all our Hobby Centres and their staff which recruit and support many happy Hobbyists across the country. If we sold our products at UK prices to Australian customers, we would unfortunately be unable to sustain our operation there. We work hard to protect our employees jobs, the success of our business, and ultimately the health of the Hobby in every country in which we operate.
While I understand that you may be unhappy with our decision, I hope the explanation above is helpful regarding our prices.
Got the same reply. At least they answered.
I got that same email this morning. who reckons that they had it standing by for the new rulebook?
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: Another part of the 'Australian Tax' (an actual one this time) is the new import fee. My gaming group combined our forge world orders for the free shipping and got slapped with a $250 tax.
Not sure what 'new' import fee you're talking about. The duties payable on imports worth over $1000 has been in place for quite a few years now.
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diepotato47 wrote: One thing I would like clarified is why a Riptide is US $85 and AUD $90, whereas the rulebook is US $85 and AUD $140. Surely that much of a markup can't be due to weight difference on shipping, right?
The have been closing the gap on most model proces with the 6th ed releases, while books have remained at pretty much the same exchange.
Part of the issue would simply be the shipping cost... Plastic kits are shipped as loose sprues and boxed up here in Oz, so they save on space in the container, and all that plastic doesn't actually weigh all that much.
Books though are heavy (particularly now that they've all gone hardcover) and cost considerably more to ship.. particularly if they're sending them from China via the UK warehouse. I don't know how much difference that is realistically going to make, but possibly some.
The other consideration is that closing the gap on models makes it less profitable for Oz customers to buy from overseas discounters. They don't have to close that gap as far on books, for the same reason as above: Shipping hardcover books is expensive. International shipping on the 7th ed rulebook is going to put the price up around the level that we can get it from an Oz discounter anyway...
The price difference on digital downloads, though, is much harder for them to justify. The explanation I got from the Black Library was that they set their digital prices in line with the local hardcopy book market... Which is an industry that is dying a slow, painful death in Australia precisely because of the high prices, so that seems like a solid business strategy right there...
I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.
I do understand that some costs compared to America are more than $5 but i also understand that a certain percentage of the cost increase is justified by population density and things like shipping and other costs. I am sure there is some "price gouging" but I don't think its as much as people would think purely looking at our cost v Americas.
bodazoka wrote: I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.
I do understand that some costs compared to America are more than $5 but i also understand that a certain percentage of the cost increase is justified by population density and things like shipping and other costs. I am sure there is some "price gouging" but I don't think its as much as people would think purely looking at our cost v Americas.
We all agree that its not all unjustified, and we all have said that if it where not a huge increase we would not be complaining.
Swastakowey wrote: We all agree that its not all unjustified, and we all have said that if it where not a huge increase we would not be complaining.
But its just a bit too big for our likings.
I think my threshold on what that price gauging figure is is different to some peoples? Something in the range of a $5 difference for what some may call gauging I am ok with and is what I would think they charge us?
To be fair though I have the funds to pay for the hobby so that relatively small amount extra doesn't register with my wallet, I also don't buy everything they release and only purchase once a month or maybe less.
bodazoka wrote: I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.
The thing is, it's nonsense logic.
Yes, it might (depending on location and store size) cost more to run a store here in Oz than in the UK or US (although apparently that divide isn't actually quite as wide as GW would have us believe). But so what? It also costs more to run a store in Sydney than in Brisbane. Or in the Brisbane CBD compared to the suburbs further out... But if you start setting your prices in individual regions based on the cost of running in that region, all you do is encourage your customers to shop in the cheaper region instead. That's why the big chain stores gave up on regional pricing here in Oz back in the late '90s - it just doesn't work.
The internet hasn't changed this equation. It just gave people a wider range of regions to choose from. It's time businesses that operated international woke up and found ways to work with that, rather than trying to restrict their customers to only buying from where they want us to buy.
bodazoka wrote: I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.
I do understand that some costs compared to America are more than $5 but i also understand that a certain percentage of the cost increase is justified by population density and things like shipping and other costs. I am sure there is some "price gouging" but I don't think its as much as people would think purely looking at our cost v Americas.
When both WHFB plastic chaos lords are $25 but a land raider is $75 US and $110 aud that is outright unacceptable.
bodazoka wrote: I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.
I do understand that some costs compared to America are more than $5 but i also understand that a certain percentage of the cost increase is justified by population density and things like shipping and other costs. I am sure there is some "price gouging" but I don't think its as much as people would think purely looking at our cost v Americas.
see I would be happy to pay $30 more to what the US/UK gamers pay but not nearly double. I rarely go to a GW store because the closest one is 150km's away but I get all of my stuff through my local gaming store to support them instead of through the GW online store and I usually get a bit of a discount on some items.
bodazoka wrote: I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.
The thing is, it's nonsense logic.
Yes, it might (depending on location and store size) cost more to run a store here in Oz than in the UK or US (although apparently that divide isn't actually quite as wide as GW would have us believe). But so what? It also costs more to run a store in Sydney than in Brisbane. Or in the Brisbane CBD compared to the suburbs further out... But if you start setting your prices in individual regions based on the cost of running in that region, all you do is encourage your customers to shop in the cheaper region instead. That's why the big chain stores gave up on regional pricing here in Oz back in the late '90s - it just doesn't work.
The internet hasn't changed this equation. It just gave people a wider range of regions to choose from. It's time businesses that operated international woke up and found ways to work with that, rather than trying to restrict their customers to only buying from where they want us to buy.
In Australia we are talking about a very small number of stores and I believe (don't quote me) that these stores would have parity to each other currently. Pricing parity across states within a country exists, but parity across different countries hardly does. There are many examples of this from a vast range of products. If you are asking for our prices to be at parity with the us it would mean every other country would need parity also, and there is allot of different reasons why this would be impossible to do, number one being raising prices in countries where the product is even cheaper than the US.
Maybe some time in the future they will realise that the reason they need high prices to sustain their stores in Australia is because they keep chasing customers away with their high prices.
bodazoka wrote: I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.
The thing is, it's nonsense logic.
Yes, it might (depending on location and store size) cost more to run a store here in Oz than in the UK or US (although apparently that divide isn't actually quite as wide as GW would have us believe). But so what? It also costs more to run a store in Sydney than in Brisbane. Or in the Brisbane CBD compared to the suburbs further out... But if you start setting your prices in individual regions based on the cost of running in that region, all you do is encourage your customers to shop in the cheaper region instead. That's why the big chain stores gave up on regional pricing here in Oz back in the late '90s - it just doesn't work.
The internet hasn't changed this equation. It just gave people a wider range of regions to choose from. It's time businesses that operated international woke up and found ways to work with that, rather than trying to restrict their customers to only buying from where they want us to buy.
In Australia we are talking about a very small number of stores and I believe (don't quote me) that these stores would have parity to each other currently. Pricing parity across states within a country exists, but parity across different countries hardly does. There are many examples of this from a vast range of products. If you are asking for our prices to be at parity with the us it would mean every other country would need parity also, and there is allot of different reasons why this would be impossible to do, number one being raising prices in countries where the product is even cheaper than the US.
We are not talking about making both prices the same, we are talking about making it a FAIR difference.
PrinceRaven wrote: Maybe some time in the future they will realise that the reason they need high prices to sustain their stores in Australia is because they keep chasing customers away with their high prices.
They had the web fronts for a couple recasters in china closed recently but they're still doing thriving trade via email though by all accounts so it seems hard to stop them. GW needs to realize they don't have the power to force us to play by their rules, and the sales are only going to continue to shrink as word of mouth spreads about where to safely get quality recasts from at 10-50% of the price.
The response to my email is below, it is the same as everyone else.
Spoiler:
Good Morning
Many thanks for your email regarding to Australian prices.
Our prices are set for Australia at the level that ensures we can support our Australian business, including all our Hobby Centres and their staff which recruit and support many happy Hobbyists across the country. If we sold our products at UK prices to Australian customers, we would unfortunately be unable to sustain our operation there. We work hard to protect our employees jobs, the success of our business, and ultimately the health of the Hobby in every country in which we operate.
While I understand that you may be unhappy with our decision, I hope the explanation above is helpful regarding our prices
I especially like how they leave out any name or department from the reply email, like they fear communication. Ugh... I reckon I'm bailing out this edition.
bodazoka wrote: I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.
The thing is, it's nonsense logic.
Yes, it might (depending on location and store size) cost more to run a store here in Oz than in the UK or US (although apparently that divide isn't actually quite as wide as GW would have us believe). But so what? It also costs more to run a store in Sydney than in Brisbane. Or in the Brisbane CBD compared to the suburbs further out... But if you start setting your prices in individual regions based on the cost of running in that region, all you do is encourage your customers to shop in the cheaper region instead. That's why the big chain stores gave up on regional pricing here in Oz back in the late '90s - it just doesn't work.
The internet hasn't changed this equation. It just gave people a wider range of regions to choose from. It's time businesses that operated international woke up and found ways to work with that, rather than trying to restrict their customers to only buying from where they want us to buy.
In Australia we are talking about a very small number of stores and I believe (don't quote me) that these stores would have parity to each other currently. Pricing parity across states within a country exists, but parity across different countries hardly does. There are many examples of this from a vast range of products. If you are asking for our prices to be at parity with the us it would mean every other country would need parity also, and there is allot of different reasons why this would be impossible to do, number one being raising prices in countries where the product is even cheaper than the US.
We are not talking about making both prices the same, we are talking about making it a FAIR difference.
Well no insaniak was mentioning pricing parity I responded to his post.
In relation to Brisbane and Sydney pricing as far as I can tell, but the point remains that if it's cheaper to pay the shipping to get something sent over from the US than it is to buy it locally something is very, very wrong.
2. Trawl ebay for bargains, though this makes getting what you want pretty hit and miss.
Spoiler:
Or you could get stuff from china online stores more than 2 times cheaper. Though, it's somewhat like pirating. However, ebay may be cheaper sometimes if you put more effort in it.
Meh.. BF just joined GW, though not as badly... $15.50 per blister locally $13.50 is you buy from the UK RRP with free post, more if you buy it at a discount.
jonolikespie wrote: In relation to Brisbane and Sydney pricing as far as I can tell, but the point remains that if it's cheaper to pay the shipping to get something sent over from the US than it is to buy it locally something is very, very wrong.
I live in a remote town in WA...
Almost everything I buy is cheaper to buy in the city and transport it here. Scale that problem up 10 fold and you get the predicament GW is in.
bodazoka wrote: Almost everything I buy is cheaper to buy in the city and transport it here. Scale that problem up 10 fold and you get the predicament GW is in.
We can courier things individually from overseas for cheaper than GW wholesales them for here. Scale up the cost savings from doing it in bulk and you have the situation GW is in.
The "it costs more to run shops in Australia" thing is BS. If that were the case, the wholesale price would be closer to parity and the RRP would be higher so that FLGS's can afford to sell GW product to pay their overheads. We know that's not the case, the wholesale price in Australia is much higher than other countries and FLGS's still manage to discount it somewhat.
How about we use other rminiatures, from another UK company such as Mantic? Added one for X-Wing too.
Dreadball team - £14.99 ($AU27) from Mantic. $AU25 RRP from an Australian shop. Not only is it basically identical - we even gain $2 from the conversion rate. Starwars Miniatures Game - £30 ($AU55) RRP on Wayland. $AU40 RRP in Australia. This one is *substantially* cheaper in Australia. (edit: this is listed as $60 RRP with $40 discounted price on another large aussie site)
Contrasted to MAC and Honour guard - £37.50 ($AU67) in the UK and $AU105 in Aus. Something seems amiss, does it not?
Yeah while the NEW model prices are coming closer to parity, he books are still insane.
If you are in sydney i can highly recommend Games Empire. They are based in Castle hill and do 20% off all GW products. i ordered my 7th ed book from them for $115. Still more than i would like but meh
Davor wrote: Isn't this the case for anything Australians buy though? It's not just GW doing this but ALL business. Are they not following Australian government law?
Yes.
The vast majority of products from TV's to Fuel (Gas) to Iphones, Cars, Electricity, household appliances etc.. are more expensive here.
I also believe there is some sort of competitive tax on digital books so that the price of a digital copy of a production is closer to the book version (I think its to help book stores?)
In the UK at least books have historically never been taxed with VAT, digital books however have to have VAT paid on top of them. Maybe its the same in AUS?
Yonan wrote: You could have imported it from the US for $66 from Discount Games. That's what I'd recommend, if you were set on buying it - or any other GW product.
That is true, only bought from them as i'm impatient and they are good guys i want to support.
Yonan wrote: You could have imported it from the US for $66 from Discount Games. That's what I'd recommend, if you were set on buying it - or any other GW product.
Keep in mind that their shipping for the 7th Edition Rulebook is $44US Priority. And that is the only way they will ship it due to the weight. Better off buying locally at that stage unfortunately unless you can find a cheaper third party shipping option.
Yonan wrote: You could have imported it from the US for $66 from Discount Games. That's what I'd recommend, if you were set on buying it - or any other GW product.
Keep in mind that their shipping for the 7th Edition Rulebook is $44US Priority. And that is the only way they will ship it due to the weight. Better off buying locally at that stage unfortunately unless you can find a cheaper third party shipping option.
That's still cheaper than discounted Australian price amusingly.
I always combine purchases so the shipping ends up being minimal per item. $90 shipping for $900 of space marine goodness that retails for over $2K here for example. When I bought the 6th ed book, it was with a large chaos/DV order with similar savings. Half of which I sold locally at a substantial profit to cover my costs and basically resulted in getting free stuff. I shouldn't argue with regional pricing since I'm unaffected by it and actually profit from it, but... guess I just hate it when my fellow gamers get shafted.
Ifurita wrote: Do you pay the same mark up for digital products?
Steam is a great example. - If the publisher does not enable regional pricing, we pay the exact same price people in the US pay, in $US. - If the publisher *does* enable regional pricing, we pay ~30%+ more, still in $US. No currency conversion. No local tax. No extra distribution costs - the data is even hosted free on my ISP.
This site breaks down regional prices on steam. example: - US - Sims 3 + Showtime = $US30 - AU - Sims 3 + Showtime = $US80
Many publishers, generally the smaller ones and virtually no indie ones regionally price. We'll pay exactly the same as people in the US. Larger ones such as Origin, Ubi$hit etc will frequently regionally price their games. Which results in 0 sales for me at least. Plenty of fish in the sea now. Indies especially are churning out gems one after another such as the new Transistor ($US20 / $US20 in AU) which is awesome.
Unfortunately, all the individuals with the power to change this policy regarding higher Australian prices have incentives and motives to NOT change it.
I looked up both average and median income for Australia and it is higher than the typical US income. Ignoring the 200% higher minimum wage, Australians still earn a bit more than the average American. But not nearly enough to warrant the amount they're being gouged by on pretty much every product.
Tyberos the Red Wake wrote: Unfortunately, all the individuals with the power to change this policy regarding higher Australian prices have incentives and motives to NOT change it.
The people with the power to change this - consumers - lack the motivation to change it because they can't do without the latest CoD, no matter how overpriced and bad it is. If we don't buy it when it's overpriced, they won't overprice it. Many of us do though sadly. Which is why I speak out so adamantly against it where possible to hopefully educate people and convince them it's int heir own longterm best interests to do without now, to make the situation better in the future. A futile cause I imagine.
bodazoka wrote: Almost everything I buy is cheaper to buy in the city and transport it here. Scale that problem up 10 fold and you get the predicament GW is in.
We can courier things individually from overseas for cheaper than GW wholesales them for here. Scale up the cost savings from doing it in bulk and you have the situation GW is in.
You completely missed my point. We are comparing America to Australia are we not?
America has a much higher population density, more competition, lower wages, a lower price from related goods, a depressed economy etc... most of those same factors are why I can buy things in the city for cheaper than where I live. Transport costs alone are so negligible it is almost free to transport goods these days. This is why I can buy product from China in whatever quantity I want significantly cheaper than getting the guy who produces the same thing a stones throw away.
Your example is also a little strange.. GW has always transported in bulk, they have not suddenly received any cost savings they can pass onto customers from switching to something they have always been doing?
bodazoka wrote: Almost everything I buy is cheaper to buy in the city and transport it here. Scale that problem up 10 fold and you get the predicament GW is in.
We can courier things individually from overseas for cheaper than GW wholesales them for here. Scale up the cost savings from doing it in bulk and you have the situation GW is in.
You completely missed my point. We are comparing America to Australia are we not?
No, I fully understood your point, you did not understand mine. You suggested that the transport cost to get an item to you in the country justified the increased price over getting it in the city. I showed to you how we could transport items individually from overseas, a far more expensive option than the bulk option available to GW, and do so at a cheaper price than GW wholesales the products for here, let alone retails. The transportation argument to justify the increased costs - to the extent that they are - is completely invalid because of this.
Tyberos the Red Wake wrote: Unfortunately, all the individuals with the power to change this policy regarding higher Australian prices have incentives and motives to NOT change it.
The people with the power to change this - consumers - lack the motivation to change it because they can't do without the latest CoD, no matter how overpriced and bad it is. If we don't buy it when it's overpriced, they won't overprice it. Many of us do though sadly. Which is why I speak out so adamantly against it where possible to hopefully educate people and convince them it's int heir own longterm best interests to do without now, to make the situation better in the future. A futile cause I imagine.
I understand where you are coming from but I think the powers at play understand the whole country are not going to suddenly stop buying things until we get political change.
Also the power these multinationals have over our purchase price extends far beyond the people we elect in some cases.
bodazoka wrote: Almost everything I buy is cheaper to buy in the city and transport it here. Scale that problem up 10 fold and you get the predicament GW is in.
We can courier things individually from overseas for cheaper than GW wholesales them for here. Scale up the cost savings from doing it in bulk and you have the situation GW is in.
You completely missed my point. We are comparing America to Australia are we not?
No, I fully understood your point, you did not understand mine. You suggested that the transport cost to get an item to you in the country justified the increased price over getting it in the city. I showed to you how we could transport items individually from overseas, a far more expensive option than the bulk option available to GW, and do so at a cheaper price than GW wholesales the products for here, let alone retails. The transportation argument to justify the increased costs - to the extent that they are - is completely invalid because of this.
I am sorry if I was not clear on my meaning.
The reason things are cheaper in the city I outlined in the previous post, the costs for transport are so small that it means it is cheaper for me to purchase in the city and transport here. I do not believe the transport costs justify the increase in the price compared to the city, I barely think they are a factor at all. I would hesitate to even say that there are increased costs to buy a product here, but there are factors that lower the price in the city that are not present here hence the price differences.
If you substitute City for America and here for Australia the points are somewhat valid still.
However.. it does not mean there are no factors that increase the price of buying goods here.
I think the term 'Australia Tax' says it all to me, and most of my opinion on this;
Yes, I will pay a lil bit more to live in Australia.
That said, there are 'alternatives' to paying full retail. The internet provides fantastic solutions to documents and miniatures, that can't be discussed here. GW is jacking their prices to compensate for people taking advantage of this. People are taking advantage of this because GW is jacking up their prices. It's a vicious circle that hurts the hobby.
bodazoka wrote: However.. it does not mean there are no factors that increase the price of buying goods here.
And yet, as I posted above in the tabletop market it seems mostly limited to GW where the price is inflated, with Mantic (another English company) retailing items at parity here in Aus, Fantasy Flight games roughly at parity, privateer press charging $US35 in the US and $AU35 ($US32.5) RRP in Aus for a warjack I just checked for another example. Why can every other tabletop company manage rough parity with pricing overseas whilst GW charges a 40% premium?
bodazoka wrote: However.. it does not mean there are no factors that increase the price of buying goods here.
And yet, as I posted above in the tabletop market it seems mostly limited to GW where the price is inflated, with Mantic (another English company) retailing items at parity here in Aus, Fantasy Flight games roughly at parity, privateer press charging $US35 in the US and $AU35 ($US32.5) RRP in Aus for a warjack I just checked for another example. Why can every other tabletop company manage rough parity with pricing overseas whilst GW charges a 40% premium?
I don't want to be seen to justify every thing GW price related.
But I can also site examples of comparative pricing for some GW models, I do not want to spend all day figuring out exactly what the average mark up on models is though. However I do see your point that the models from competitors are cheaper, all though I would guess there are different reasons for that other than the company being altruistic.
Not questions, but the fact that it's so expensive people are quite happy to admit to pirating it on a board that doesn't like that sort of talk kind of shows the problem with Australian pricing in the first place.
When the other game I play offers its rules completely, legally free and I still choose to spend $60 on the rulebook, yet I won't spend $140au on a different games rulebook is kind of indicative of the perceived value I get out of each.
File a complaint with the relevant ombudsman. I did this with adobe prior to their investigation.
CS6 master collection, bought online as digital and downloaded from a US server was several thousand dollars more than customers in the US, mexico or canada. Enough people do it companies get watched.
Trapthem wrote: File a complaint with the relevant ombudsman. I did this with adobe prior to their investigation.
CS6 master collection, bought online as digital and downloaded from a US server was several thousand dollars more than customers in the US, mexico or canada. Enough people do it companies get watched.
Unfortunately the result of the commision into prices here resulted in the following reply from Microsoft and Adobe - feth you, geo blocking prices isn't illegal, come back when it is.
The response from GW will be much the same, and there's nothing that can be done about it unless, as they said, geo blocking prices in Australia became illegal.
Trapthem wrote: File a complaint with the relevant ombudsman. I did this with adobe prior to their investigation.
CS6 master collection, bought online as digital and downloaded from a US server was several thousand dollars more than customers in the US, mexico or canada. Enough people do it companies get watched.
Unfortunately the result of the commision into prices here resulted in the following reply from Microsoft and Adobe - feth you, geo blocking prices isn't illegal, come back when it is.
The response from GW will be much the same, and there's nothing that can be done about it unless, as they said, geo blocking prices in Australia became illegal.
Which seems highly unlikely before the next election at least.
Trapthem wrote: Yeah it's not about any immediate result but accumulating a track record against them. Beats bending over and taking it via emails being ignored
Which still acheives nothing because they're based in the UK. This was the result of a large quantity of complaints to Choice - we can't really do much since they're not an Australian company.
Given that Privateer Press is making a profit by selling things in Australia at the same price as overseas rather than a +30% or more markup, I don't see how the "overhead, tariffs, taxes or any other costs of doing business in your country" argument is at all valid.
Belly wrote: I think the term 'Australia Tax' says it all to me, and most of my opinion on this;
Yes, I will pay a lil bit more to live in Australia.
That said, there are 'alternatives' to paying full retail. The internet provides fantastic solutions to documents and miniatures, that can't be discussed here. GW is jacking their prices to compensate for people taking advantage of this. People are taking advantage of this because GW is jacking up their prices. It's a vicious circle that hurts the hobby.
Problem is, it's not GW. Here in Canada we finally get a Target. Guess what. We are not getting US Target prices, but Canadian Target prices.
It's just corporate greed. Everyone is doing it. Just like any good Canadian all we do is bend over and bitch/moan/complain and do nothing about it. That is another reason why they get away with it. We are too lazy to do anything about it.
Davor wrote: It's just corporate greed. Everyone is doing it. Just like any good Canadian all we do is bend over and bitch/moan/complain and do nothing about it. That is another reason why they get away with it. We are too lazy to do anything about it.
Yep. I try to educate people on the topic for their own good - but in the meantime I'll happily import extra from overseas with my orders and undercut local prices to subsidise my hobby.
PrinceRaven wrote: Given that Privateer Press is making a profit by selling things in Australia at the same price as overseas rather than a +30% or more markup, I don't see how the "overhead, tariffs, taxes or any other costs of doing business in your country" argument is at all valid.
The only thing they can really stick to is not having their own stores, but supporting and allowing FLGS to stock and sell all their product. Truly it's a much better idea to try run your own stores to try to drive away those pesky FLGS by moving them in up close to successful ones. :^)
While I agree that the pricing isn't great, like most people have also stated its hardly going to change. There was a GW store in central Auckland until it recently shutdown, now I think there's only one down south. It had always seemed really empty and I never actually brought anything from it, but I did buy the majority of my stuff from other FLGSs we have like vagabonds, redzeed etc.
This is hardly an informed opinion, but its always felt that the majority of the turnover in these stores are from card games. I can reliably walk in there any time during the week and there will be someone playing magic or vanguard etc. I used to do these as well, and most times I went in I would pick up boosters or singles, but in doing wargaming I very rarely, if ever, pick up something on gaming nights and from what I've seen not many others do too.
Everyone who does play miniature games though are typically adult and so can afford the prices GW are setting. I've talked to them about it and while they feel its high, dont really care as it is their hobby. Whereas others may skii, or do golf, they have few qualms about paying 150 odd dollars for a rulebook. Thats probably why the 10 copies my main store ordered sold out in preorders in a couple of days. Now say for example if GW halved their profits and the book retailed for $100 would my store have ordered and sold 20? I highly doubt it.
It does seem that people online are more inclined to kick up a fuss.
rahxephon wrote: While I agree that the pricing isn't great, like most people have also stated its hardly going to change. There was a GW store in central Auckland until it recently shutdown, now I think there's only one down south. It had always seemed really empty and I never actually brought anything from it, but I did buy the majority of my stuff from other FLGSs we have like vagabonds, redzeed etc.
This is hardly an informed opinion, but its always felt that the majority of the turnover in these stores are from card games. I can reliably walk in there any time during the week and there will be someone playing magic or vanguard etc. I used to do these as well, and most times I went in I would pick up boosters or singles, but in doing wargaming I very rarely, if ever, pick up something on gaming nights and from what I've seen not many others do too.
Everyone who does play miniature games though are typically adult and so can afford the prices GW are setting. I've talked to them about it and while they feel its high, dont really care as it is their hobby. Whereas others may skii, or do golf, they have few qualms about paying 150 odd dollars for a rulebook. Thats probably why the 10 copies my main store ordered sold out in preorders in a couple of days. Now say for example if GW halved their profits and the book retailed for $100 would my store have ordered and sold 20? I highly doubt it.
It does seem that people online are more inclined to kick up a fuss.
You are missing the point. We are complaining because we have to pay much more than anyone else in the world simply because we are in a different country. We all still buy it (not from GW necessarily) its the fact we are being in a way ripped off that annoys us.
rahxephon wrote: While I agree that the pricing isn't great, like most people have also stated its hardly going to change.
It might, I'd be surprised if GW starts lowering their prices any time soon (though it's not impossible, the GW of the 90's used to have sales and things), but I could see them not raising Oz/NZ prices as much as US/UK prices until they balance out. They are already inconsistent in their pricing, the Eldar release came on the back of several years of the Australian dollar being near parity with the US and it actually was NOT that overpriced. Some things have actually slipped through cheaper in Oz than the US. Of course after the Eldar release the AUD slipped (and then later returned) so I wonder if GW doesn't have enough confidence to continue decent regional pricing.
The problem is GW isn't going to lower their prices easily, and they've already set themselves moronically high with books and many models. To fix things they need to have an epic adjustment and lower the prices of books and many sets.
It's not impossible though, they just have to realise that people would buy more if the models were cheaper... which with their current mindset is unlikely.
There was a GW store in central Auckland until it recently shutdown, now I think there's only one down south. It had always seemed really empty and I never actually brought anything from it, but I did buy the majority of my stuff from other FLGSs we have like vagabonds, redzeed etc. This is hardly an informed opinion, but its always felt that the majority of the turnover in these stores are from card games. I can reliably walk in there any time during the week and there will be someone playing magic or vanguard etc. I used to do these as well, and most times I went in I would pick up boosters or singles, but in doing wargaming I very rarely, if ever, pick up something on gaming nights and from what I've seen not many others do too. Everyone who does play miniature games though are typically adult and so can afford the prices GW are setting. I've talked to them about it and while they feel its high, dont really care as it is their hobby. Whereas others may skii, or do golf, they have few qualms about paying 150 odd dollars for a rulebook. Thats probably why the 10 copies my main store ordered sold out in preorders in a couple of days. Now say for example if GW halved their profits and the book retailed for $100 would my store have ordered and sold 20? I highly doubt it. It does seem that people online are more inclined to kick up a fuss.
All pretty anecdotal right there. Back in the 90's my local GW was the place to be, it was packed every thursday and friday night and most times you could go in and just get a random pick up game. I started WHFB when I was 10 and most my friends started before they were 15 (and almost all quit by the time they were 20). Was buying models with money I earned doing chores, I wasn't a little timmy asking mummy to buy me the $300 boxed set and $100 of modelling/painting tools. Most the people in the store through that era were under 25 if I were to hazard a guess, with many breezing through after school still wearing their uniforms.
That's probably why GW places too much faith in having tons of 1 man stores everywhere, because their stores DID do a raging business back in the day. Now that they've moved their stores further out of the way where rent is cheaper and dropped to 1 man stores with absurd start off prices, they've kind of screwed themselves and the stores are ghost towns for the best part of the day (though a few vets still breeze through my local GW in the evenings for pick up games).
IMO if GW is a game mostly for adults, it's because they priced themselves out of their own best market, which is the 10-18yo who have more time and imagination to waste on miniatures and table top gaming.
rahxephon wrote: While I agree that the pricing isn't great, like most people have also stated its hardly going to change. There was a GW store in central Auckland until it recently shutdown, now I think there's only one down south. It had always seemed really empty and I never actually brought anything from it, but I did buy the majority of my stuff from other FLGSs we have like vagabonds, redzeed etc. This is hardly an informed opinion, but its always felt that the majority of the turnover in these stores are from card games. I can reliably walk in there any time during the week and there will be someone playing magic or vanguard etc. I used to do these as well, and most times I went in I would pick up boosters or singles, but in doing wargaming I very rarely, if ever, pick up something on gaming nights and from what I've seen not many others do too. Everyone who does play miniature games though are typically adult and so can afford the prices GW are setting. I've talked to them about it and while they feel its high, dont really care as it is their hobby. Whereas others may skii, or do golf, they have few qualms about paying 150 odd dollars for a rulebook. Thats probably why the 10 copies my main store ordered sold out in preorders in a couple of days. Now say for example if GW halved their profits and the book retailed for $100 would my store have ordered and sold 20? I highly doubt it. It does seem that people online are more inclined to kick up a fuss.
I'm an adult, and I can afford to keep my Tyranid army going.
I'm also an adult that can make my own decisions. One of those recently was to spend my money on a game where I perceive to get better value for money for what I spend. I've also made the decision to simply not pay GW's prices anymore by not buying anything from them.
Also, yes, games stores make the lions share of their money from card games and snacks. This isn't really a phenomenon only seen on this side of the pond - it's the same everywhere. Card games simply attract more people for various reasons, and the release methods keep people buying. And everyone loves a coke and some chips while having a game in the middle of the day.
If you want to talk anecdotal evidence, at my FLGS I hardly ever see anyone play 40k anymore, and if I do, no new releases are hitting the table. I see more games of Warmachine, Dystopian Wars, Flames or War and historicals. All being played by adults who can afford to play what they want.
You see, the great thing about any other wargame company over here is we don't need to resort to back alley deals with people on facebook to get a reasonable price.
We just buy the stuff from our FLGS or online retailer of choice.
PrinceRaven wrote: Given that Privateer Press is making a profit by selling things in Australia at the same price as overseas rather than a +30% or more markup, I don't see how the "overhead, tariffs, taxes or any other costs of doing business in your country" argument is at all valid.
Privateer Press isn't running an Import company, warehouse and national chain of retail stores.
Think before posting eh? But then again, rage is irrational
44Ronin wrote: Privateer Press isn't running an Import company, warehouse and national chain of retail stores.
Think before posting eh? But then again, rage is irrational
/facepalm
If none of those things result in a better product/service, GW should cancel them. To not do so is incompetence and to think otherwise is irrational.
Yeah, I never understand these arguments. If GW stores are losing money they need to close their friggen stores. If they don't want to close their stores because they see them as advertising, either come chalk up the cost to advertising instead of passing it on to gamers and/or come up with a better way of advertising. But we know that the wholesale price in Oz is much more than other countries, so they're hamstringing FLGS's in addition to screwing over consumers. If the addition price was from the increased cost of selling a product here, then the wholesale price should be closer to parity and the RRP higher so that the stores can get the extra income to keep running.
Regarding the "import company and warehouse", all I can say about that is it's moronic that you can import a product from a foreign retail store and STILL have it cheaper than wholesale price over here. If that additional price came from the importing and warehousing then GW should just shoot themselves now because they fail at doing business.
PrinceRaven wrote: Given that Privateer Press is making a profit by selling things in Australia at the same price as overseas rather than a +30% or more markup, I don't see how the "overhead, tariffs, taxes or any other costs of doing business in your country" argument is at all valid.
Privateer Press isn't running an Import company, warehouse and national chain of retail stores.
Think before posting eh? But then again, rage is irrational
And Games Workshop is. The players aren't forcing them to make bad business decisions, why should they pay the price for them?
Where's the rage? We're not raging, we're discussing the stupidities of GW's business practices in Australia. Rage free zone, but criticism is welcome.
44Ronin wrote: What have the "Press gangers" done in comparison? Please enlighten me?
Basically what GW staff do, without the store and 'import company' overheads. Drum up interest, organise tournaments, help out new players. In fact, it's such a successful program other companies are following suit. Corvus Belli announced they're starting up the Warcor program with the sme objectives.
PrinceRaven wrote: Given that Privateer Press is making a profit by selling things in Australia at the same price as overseas rather than a +30% or more markup, I don't see how the "overhead, tariffs, taxes or any other costs of doing business in your country" argument is at all valid.
Privateer Press isn't running an Import company, warehouse and national chain of retail stores.
Think before posting eh? But then again, rage is irrational
And Games Workshop is. The players aren't forcing them to make bad business decisions, why should they pay the price for them?
Think before posting, 'kay?
Sorry if you simply cannot comprehend that Privateer press is not Games Workshop.
I gave you legitimate reasons as to the differences. Then you cried and called the business model stupid. Well that's your opinion, not fact.
Now now gentlemen, can you address the points I gave you instead of dodging............realities.
If they are unable to have a sustainable business in Australia without price gouging while other miniature wargame companies can, then somewhere along the line they have failed.
Perhaps the failure is in their marketing strategy, or their game design, or their model design. You are the one who brought up their business model as the reason they have to raise the prices, so I made the inference that the business model is the problem.
44Ronin wrote: Privateer Press isn't running an Import company, warehouse and national chain of retail stores.
Think before posting eh? But then again, rage is irrational
/facepalm
If none of those things result in a better product/service, GW should cancel them. To not do so is incompetence and to think otherwise is irrational.
It does, that's why GW rose to be on top.
Can say for a fact that GW staff have helped thousands of people learn to paint for FREE.
1. I'll give them credit for the odd good piece of advice here and there and setting people off on the path to learn, but they simply do not have the time nor workforce to teach people more than the very basics. Even less now with the one man stores, if they can still manage to that's actually pretty great.
2. Its easy to climb to the top of a hill in a race you are basically the only person in. They got where they were here because of their stores because it gave them presence; they have to adapt to realise they now have competition or they could just fall off.
Now these two things, they cost GW quite a lot more than they need to pay to run over here. They could easily cut their costs by supporting the FLGS and even some advertising, but why do they then stay with what is an inefficient model for business? Having the overcosts for your own stores (apparently) jacking your prices up significantly while only relying on word of mouth to keep going is not sustainable anywhere; cutting to one man stores probably shows that since there's less wages for them to bother with right? Because I can't see any other reason cutting a store down to 5 days a week with an hour or so taken out of each day; the store sometimes remaining closed if that staff member is sick, as a good idea. You're pushing away potential sales for no real reason. What they are doing was good for racing to the top of the hill, but they're already at the top. So it'd make more sense to focus on staying up there rather than rolling off the side as they seem to be teetering to.
As for the "irrational rage". I didn't see it myself, but you must be just that much more sensitive at picking that stuff up.
PrinceRaven wrote: If they are unable to have a sustainable business in Australia without price gouging while other miniature wargame companies can, then somewhere along the line they have failed.
It would help if you knew what "price gouging" actually was.
Perhaps the failure is in their marketing strategy, or their game design, or their model design. You are the one who brought up their business model as the reason they have to raise the prices, so I made the inference that the business model is the problem.
When did they raise prices? The price is localised, but ...open your eyes... and wake up to reality. Most things are cheaper in other markets than Australia and other backwaters of the world.
The issue is you expect something to occur without thinking about how it can be possible, you expect something to occur without having any actual internal information about the company's overheads.
Restructuring to cut your overheads is a large overhead in itself.
44Ronin wrote: Privateer Press isn't running an Import company, warehouse and national chain of retail stores.
Think before posting eh? But then again, rage is irrational
/facepalm
If none of those things result in a better product/service, GW should cancel them. To not do so is incompetence and to think otherwise is irrational.
It does, that's why GW rose to be on top.
Can say for a fact that GW staff have helped thousands of people learn to paint for FREE.
1. I'll give them credit for the odd good piece of advice here and there and setting people off on the path to learn, but they simply do not have the time nor workforce to teach people more than the very basics. Even less now with the one man stores, if they can still manage to that's actually pretty great.
They pioneered so many things, but now they are in the middle of market restructure. The ragers scream and cry "GW is stupppoood", but anyone who has worked in business will tell you that corporate restructure takes time and is painful. We are in the pain period. They will either restructure or die., simple as that.
2. Its easy to climb to the top of a hill in a race you are basically the only person in. They got where they were here because of their stores because it gave them presence; they have to adapt to realise they now have competition or they could just fall off.
There always was competition for GW, even in the nineties. It's just that the competition had little appeal in comparison as you say. The stores pushed them above all else. Things changed. They need time to restructure from a clear identity crisis.
44Ronin wrote:The issue is you expect something to occur without thinking about how it can be possible, you expect something to occur without having any actual internal information about the company's overheads
Which brings up the questions:
- Is there overhead legitimately high enough to warrant the inflated prices?
- If so, why is there overhead that high when their competition's overhead clearly isn't?
- What incentive, as a consumer, do I have to support their business in Australia when it is more efficient to buy overseas and have it shipped here?
- What are they doing to fix this problem?
SeanDrake wrote: I did notice that despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, that aus was the only territory to sell out of the ltd edition rulebook.
Obviously prices were to low so expect further adjustments shortly
That entirely depends how many they released here, other limited editions I've seen linger on the Australian site long after they've vanished from the US and UK ones. I think it was Dark Vengeance limited that was still on the Oz store for a long time? Since then they probably don't give Australia too many limited editions any more, it's not great marketing to have a stack of limited editions you can't sell because there's not enough people crazy enough to pay the absurd amounts for them.
n0t_u wrote: 1. I'll give them credit for the odd good piece of advice here and there and setting people off on the path to learn, but they simply do not have the time nor workforce to teach people more than the very basics. Even less now with the one man stores, if they can still manage to that's actually pretty great.
They pioneered so many things, but now they are in the middle of market restructure. The ragers scream and cry "GW is stupppoood", but anyone who has worked in business will tell you that corporate restructure takes time and is painful. We are in the pain period. They will either restructure or die., simple as that.
2. Its easy to climb to the top of a hill in a race you are basically the only person in. They got where they were here because of their stores because it gave them presence; they have to adapt to realise they now have competition or they could just fall off.
There always was competition for GW, even in the nineties. It's just that the competition had little appeal in comparison as you say. The stores pushed them above all else. Things changed. They need time to restructure from a clear identity crisis.
And this is something they can't drag their feet with, with the current way their competitors are moving fast they seem to be moving a bit too slow to adjust to them. Maybe pride kept them the way they were for a while; who knows but it certainly isn't doing them many favours at the moment if it did.
-Loki- wrote:You see, the great thing about any other wargame company over here is we don't need to resort to back alley deals with people on facebook to get a reasonable price.
We just buy the stuff from our FLGS or online retailer of choice.
I hear you, but I want to paint space marines and relive my wasted youth, as cheap as possible
ruprecht wrote: I got the following reply from my store today:
Hi
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I passed on your concerns and have received the following response:
Good morning Andrew
Thank you for passing on your customers concerns.
Pricing for all countries are given to us by our UK parent company.
They take into consideration many factors such as,
Cost of labour in every country
Cost of shop rentals and outgoings in every company
Cost of services in every country eg electricity water etc
Cost of insurances in every country
Costs of living in every country
It should be noted that for 2 years in a row now the rest of the world have had significant price rises where as oz and NZ have had 2 years of zero increases
These are some of the variables that go into cost of goods decided on for every country from the UK Cheers
Ken'
Having been in the Hobby for 30 yrs and seen what it was like without GW presence; Having worked for GW for more than 11 years on my last tour and following a 6 year break returned in January to run the store; I can say that without our current price structure for Australia, the reality would be that store's like [store] and people like myself wouldn't be part of providing Hobby Support here in Australia.
I also remember the days when there was no GW presence in the country, and we had to order everything from the UK, so I do appreciate having the stores. And while I appreciate the response, all of the above costs are operating expenses, with the exception of "cost of living" which is as far as I can see shorthand for "they are used to paying high prices, so let's charge high prices too". And it doesn't explain the gouging on digital products, which are a separate division and involve none of those operating expenses.
Anyone able to fact check the "no price increases in 2 years" claim?
To the annual report, to see what I can see.
Australia is not in a Recession. The rest of the world is suffering, and the AU and NZ are not. They are actually expanding their markets.
I would develop contacts in other countries and just abuse the cost of of money transfers as much as possible myself to save yourselves some cash. Kick the guy a few bills as thanks and you walk away with a better deal and in the current pricing I would say a bloody fine bargain.
PrinceRaven wrote: If they are unable to have a sustainable business in Australia without price gouging while other miniature wargame companies can, then somewhere along the line they have failed.
It would help if you knew what "price gouging" actually was.
"Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities at a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair." That is the exact term to describe the situation.
PrinceRaven wrote: If they are unable to have a sustainable business in Australia without price gouging while other miniature wargame companies can, then somewhere along the line they have failed.
It would help if you knew what "price gouging" actually was.
"Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities at a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair." That is the exact term to describe the situation.
In your (irrational) opinion.,....
Do you have all the facts?
GW does not have a monopoly on miniatures does it now?
Lets compare living wages U.S vs Australia? No you're not interested in that!
Let's talk about overheads. Nope.
Let's talk about market restructure. Nope.
Actually we addressed the costs earlier in the thread using data from the 2012/13 annual report. The cost of operating a store is not substantially different from AU to US. But US sales are going up, and AU sales are going down, so the stores are less profitable in AU. And the more they drive prices up to compensate, the more we avail ourselves of import options. Which is imho the reason sales keep going down.
Also while the comparisons to other gaming companies are interesting, it's worth remembering that GW is the only one that is publicly listed (afaik) and in the iron grip of institutional shareholders.
Which brings up the questions:
- Is there overhead legitimately high enough to warrant the inflated prices?
- If so, why is there overhead that high when their competition's overhead clearly isn't?
- What incentive, as a consumer, do I have to support their business in Australia when it is more efficient to buy overseas and have it shipped here?
- What are they doing to fix this problem?
Good questions. As far as I can see:
- the problem is not overheads/costs, but revenues. AU stores barely make a profit because of low sales per store compared to US.
- as above, overhead isn't the issue. Cost to operate an AU store is roughly the same as a US store. But maintaining 30+ storefronts costs more than simply shipping stock to FLGSes. No doubt this is a conscious decision to expand their customer base and continue to be the only tg timmies ever hear about.
- Unless you game at a store, or have one nearby for emergency purchases, none. This is the core of the Australian GW customer's dilemma.
- Visibly, not much. My local store is very proactive with events and such, but GW needs to do a lot more to up its local customer base. Right now they depend on walk-by traffic and word of mouth.
I agree, so why are you making silly posts claiming GW doesn't have a monopoly when it clearly does?
ruprecht wrote:Good questions. As far as I can see:
- the problem is not overheads/costs, but revenues. AU stores barely make a profit because of low sales per store compared to US.
- as above, overhead isn't the issue. Cost to operate an AU store is roughly the same as a US store. But maintaining 30+ storefronts costs more than simply shipping stock to FLGSes. No doubt this is a conscious decision to expand their customer base and continue to be the only tg timmies ever hear about.
- Unless you game at a store, or have one nearby for emergency purchases, none. This is the core of the Australian GW customer's dilemma.
- Visibly, not much. My local store is very proactive with events and such, but GW needs to do a lot more to up its local customer base. Right now they depend on walk-by traffic and word of mouth.
So as I've stated previosuly in this thread, the reason why they raise the prices so high is because people aren't buying because the prices are too high.
It would prob be cheaper in the long run to just move honestly. Once you add up ALL cost of living items, and compare it to the rest of the world that is.
The discussion should be framed around the initial reason prices being high here was because they were set that way back when it was $AU0.6 to $1US, and when the $AU gained ground (at max 1.1-1, now 0.92-1)... the price didn't change at all. Prices being sticky downwards and all that.
Initially when people didn't really realize it was no doubt a huge bounty for GW, making an extra 40% on each sale as they took the entire currency gain as extra profit over their usual margin with no loss in sales. People eventually wised up, thanks largely to the internet I imagine and so obviously people aren't that happy about the arrangement. The result is declining sales compared to other regions and a larger increase in the use of recasts and pirated products in Australia compared to elsewhere, which mirrors the effect in other industries where regional pricing is implemented.
Edit: From what I gather. I started near the end of fifth, after GW had locked down the EU exporting to Aus.
PrinceRaven wrote: So as I've stated previosuly in this thread, the reason why they raise the prices so high is because people aren't buying because the prices are too high.
This seems to be the crux of it. Up to a point, the revenues gained outweigh the sales lost. I would think that it's approaching the tipping point though.
I'll be very interested to read the 2013/14 annual report. GW turned a small AU loss in 2011/12 into a small AU profit in 2012/13 on reduced sales.
Orktavius wrote: it's obvious there's some over markup but your not going to try and tell me there's no additional cost of business in Australia over America or Europe without eliciting a great deal of laughter. I believe the Adobe lawsuit was regarding a digital product was it not? Digital products should obviously be priced similarly to exchange rates....but physical product is obviously going to be marked up to higher shipping costs, overhead (IE paying employees in Australia and what not) and doubtless other factors like taxes or tarriffs on imported goods.
Is 50% to high? No doubt....but I'm betting not by as much as you think.
We can import items from overseas discounters, pay courier shipping and pay less than items are wholesaled for here by GW. You want laughter? It's directed exclusively at you for that ridiculous statement as the additional cost is so far below the current additional cost that it's hilarious you think otherwise. Other companies that aren't trying to price gouge manage to do it just fine.
Thanks. Now I don't need to type that very same post out.
I agree, so why are you making silly posts claiming GW doesn't have a monopoly when it clearly does?
Talk about beating your head into the wall.
GW does not have a monopoly on miniatures.
Branding =/= monopoly. You clearly have zero understanding of business to even understand what is a monopoly.
I'm starting to think the average of IQ will go up when all the rage quitters actually quit as they so profusely promise and threaten..
I never once claimed that Games Workshop has a monopoly on every single wargaming miniature in the known universe.
I said they had a monopoly on 40k minis (and Fantasy, etc.), if you want to play 40k you can only use Citadel minis which can only be purchased from Games Workshop.
whilst I agree that the price markup is ridiculous, we have to expect to pay more than the UK/US, simply because Australian wages are higher - just look at the minimum wage difference.
Khaine wrote: whilst I agree that the price markup is ridiculous, we have to expect to pay more than the UK/US, simply because Australian wages are higher - just look at the minimum wage difference.
We're a more wealthy nation than the wealthiest nation in the world, which has a 20% higher GDP per capita than us? /facepalm Maybe their wealth was hiding somewhere behind their 11 carrier battle groups.
Your argument works for locally produced things - higher wages means higher costs of production. Something produced in the UK has UK production costs. To charge us more for it means GW is making extra pure profit on the item as the UK production cost for something sold in the UK is the same as the UK production cost for something sold in Australia.
rank Country Disposable wage 1 United States 38,753 29.6% 55,048 2 Ireland 38,210 25.9% 51,565 3 Luxembourg 33,373 36.6% 52,639 4 Australia 33,319 32.9% 49,655
You were saying about higher wages in Australia? A higher minimum wage is far less relevant than average wage. The poorest of us can buy more than the poorest of them. On average per person, they can buy more than us.
Khaine wrote: whilst I agree that the price markup is ridiculous, we have to expect to pay more than the UK/US, simply because Australian wages are higher - just look at the minimum wage difference.
We're a more wealthy nation than the wealthiest nation in the world, which has a 20% higher GDP per capita than us? /facepalm
Your argument works for locally produced things - higher wages means higher costs of production. Something produced in the UK has UK production costs. To charge us more for it means GW is making extra pure profit on the item as the UK production cost for something sold in the UK is the same as the UK production cost for something sold in Australia.
I agree that GW is making extra profit off us just for the sake of it, I'm just saying that we can't reasonably expect the same prices as the US etc.
It costs more to pay staff and rent property in Australia, I'm not referring to production costs. And the US may have higher GDP per capita than us, but it also has much higher inequality than we do ie their wealth is more unevenly spread. Australia is definitely a wealthier nation than both the US and the UK on a person to person basis, I'm pretty sure that's like an accepted fact. A good way of gauging this is to compare wages for a common profession such as a teacher.
Khaine wrote: It costs more to pay staff and rent property in Australia, I'm not referring to production costs.
If adding their own local offices *increases* rather than decreases costs, they're fething incompetent and need to kill them off and let independents manage it for them. Other wargaming companies manage pricing parity this way.
Khaine wrote: whilst I agree that the price markup is ridiculous, we have to expect to pay more than the UK/US, simply because Australian wages are higher - just look at the minimum wage difference.
Minimum wages are irrelevant. Most people on minimum wage can't afford hobbies in the first place.
If you compare professional wages (as in, the money earnt by the people who actually have some disposable income) in western countries, the story is a little different.
And, frankly, the 'you earn more, so you shoudl pay more' argument is bogus. If you go into a coffee shop with someone who earns less than you do, should they pay less for their coffee than you?
I'm happy with paying a little more but like you said a little more isn't 40%
I know it's not GW but here is a price comparison.
Asics kyanos us $170 Australia $250
Surf brand shirts $29 ish Australia $50ish
Yes I now there is tax to be adde to us prices but still considering neither are made in USA, and shipping would be cheaper to aus.... It's got me at a loss.
Australia is viewed as the end of the earth and aparently it costs a mint to ship stuff here.....
Zagaboff wrote: Australia is viewed as the end of the earth and aparently it costs a mint to ship stuff here.....
I think we've shown that it's not about shipping. When GW were selling the full chapter of Ultramarines, I could have literally bought a plane ticket to England, bought the set there for GBP, flown home with it in my luggage and still saved money on the AU RRP pricing.
Zagaboff wrote: Australia is viewed as the end of the earth and aparently it costs a mint to ship stuff here.....
I think we've shown that it's not about shipping. When GW were selling the full chapter of Ultramarines, I could have literally bought a plane ticket to England, bought the set there for GBP, flown home with it in my luggage and still saved money on the AU RRP pricing.
this sounds about right... its downright silly.
though i did the math on that new terminator bundle, and yes aus pays more than the US for the box BUT, over the costs of the individual models we get a bigger saving.... i dont get that either.
also the min wage in the states... its lower, but say you work as a bartender for example the tips they get on the average day MORE than make up for the hourly loss, and im not sure if tips are taxable in the usa.
Zagaboff wrote: Australia is viewed as the end of the earth and aparently it costs a mint to ship stuff here.....
I think we've shown that it's not about shipping. When GW were selling the full chapter of Ultramarines, I could have literally bought a plane ticket to England, bought the set there for GBP, flown home with it in my luggage and still saved money on the AU RRP pricing.
Zagaboff wrote: Australia is viewed as the end of the earth and aparently it costs a mint to ship stuff here.....
I think we've shown that it's not about shipping. When GW were selling the full chapter of Ultramarines, I could have literally bought a plane ticket to England, bought the set there for GBP, flown home with it in my luggage and still saved money on the AU RRP pricing.
kb_lock wrote: Rent and staff doesn't explain why their wholesale prices suck either. Flgs can't help much
Pretty much. It's pretty crazy to have a wholesale price here that is higher than what you can buy it retail from another country even when you include shipping. If it was genuinely that the cost of doing business in Oz is so much higher, the wholesale price would only be slightly higher and the RRP would be higher to account for the higher cost of doing business rather than the wholesale price being massively higher.
Zagaboff wrote: Australia is viewed as the end of the earth and aparently it costs a mint to ship stuff here.....
I think we've shown that it's not about shipping. When GW were selling the full chapter of Ultramarines, I could have literally bought a plane ticket to England, bought the set there for GBP, flown home with it in my luggage and still saved money on the AU RRP pricing.
Sorry was bend a bit sarcastic. i don't think anyone is fooled by the pricing policy, its just based around greed, unfortunately every company seems to have the same opinion.
I'm not a business executive, however if i was, i would of thought pricing things lower, selling twice as much would be a better outcome? increasing the % of miniature gamers playing GW games over others, and finding it easier to introducing new members who won't be scared by the price, as well as having more people playing and promoting the game because they are discussing it with the friends work mates ect.... maybe thats too long term for them?
kb_lock wrote: Rent and staff doesn't explain why their wholesale prices suck either. Flgs can't help much
Pretty much. It's pretty crazy to have a wholesale price here that is higher than what you can buy it retail from another country even when you include shipping. If it was genuinely that the cost of doing business in Oz is so much higher, the wholesale price would only be slightly higher and the RRP would be higher to account for the higher cost of doing business rather than the wholesale price being massively higher.
Exactly, how come the price hike isn't just a uniform %.
by any chance are the troops units more expensive compared to other comparisons?
Zagaboff wrote: Australia is viewed as the end of the earth and aparently it costs a mint to ship stuff here.....
I think we've shown that it's not about shipping. When GW were selling the full chapter of Ultramarines, I could have literally bought a plane ticket to England, bought the set there for GBP, flown home with it in my luggage and still saved money on the AU RRP pricing.
Wow that's awesome
It's really not.
I was just meaning that I should go over to the UK for a holiday and stock up on GW stuff whilst enjoying a break from work.
Zagaboff wrote: I'm not a business executive, however if i was, i would of thought pricing things lower, selling twice as much would be a better outcome?
I am sort of a business executive, and yes that would make sense, but the problem (for consumers) is that they won't sell twice as much by dropping the prices. It's not greed really, at least not on GW's part - it's greed on the part of their institutional investors to get a dividend every year, which forces short-term business strategies like pricing over longer term investments like eating losses while expanding their customer base and engaging/retaining paying bittervets.
If GW have 30 AU stores, it costs them 30 x 150k GBP / year to run them. That includes salaries, rent etc and is not very different to what it costs to operate a US store.
They need to make enough margin on the products they sell to cover those costs. If they aren't covering it (as was the case in 2011/12 when GW AU made a loss), they can either sell more stuff, or sell less stuff at a higher price. They chose the 2nd option rather than the first, rightly predicting that the loss in sales wouldn't be worse than the increase in revenues from the higher prices. It paid off, because they made a small profit in 2012/13 (they also closed some unprofitable stores etc, but this is a simplistic summary).
Now if as they say they haven't increased prices this year (which may be strictly true, but isn't effectively true due to repacks and new products), you would expect that their profit would further increase in 2013/14 due to those stores increasing market penetration. The danger for GW however is that bittervets stop paying the higher local prices and import, and that is the risk they accepted when they jacked prices. We'll see when the annual report is out in Jun/Jul.
For us as consumers though, GW AU stores represent two things: a place to play and an outlet for our plastic crack. GW bets that this is enough to keep enough people shopping in stores to make their strategy pay off. As an individual consumer, unless the benefit of having a local store is worth the Australia tax, you're not GW's market and it makes sense to import.
The use of other models to represent models in the 40K galaxy is allowed (and even encouraged). Nothing is cooler than seeing conversion work that give an army a feel, a vibe, a uniqueness and theme.
Terracon will not be receiving sponsorship from Games Workshop, therefore models from other war-gaming companies may be acceptable under certain conditions, however some restrictions on proxies need to be observed. If the model is not produced by Games Workshop, then it will need to be of equal or superior quality to the model it represents. For example, using a bag of toy soldiers bought from a $2 shop as Imperial Guardsmen will be unacceptable, and you will be asked to remove them from the table.
Models and weapons MUST be easily recognizable, and must be identical dimensions and bases to the GW model that they represent. If your opponent cant guess what the model represents without asking you, then it is probably unacceptable.
If you are unsure about whether your models will be acceptable or not, please contact me via PM on WAU and I will let you know.
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but Australia has a blanket 30% import tax on [em]any[/em] book, regardless of content or whether it is produced here or has competition here.
If you look at:
50GBP =
AU$91 * 1.3 =
$118 + GST =
$130.13
So the Australian Tax, (you know, aside from all the *actual* taxes) is more like $10, which they do, as others have mentioned, tend to put on to make up for higher minimum wages and store rentals in Australia.
So, obviously there's a lot of rage going on here, but please make sure it's in proportion - the Australia Tax equates to about 7% of the final retail price.
majendie wrote: I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but Australia has a blanket 30% import tax on [em]any[/em] book, regardless of content or whether it is produced here or has competition here.
There is? Googling around I can't find any mention of it. I googled importing books and they only say 5% customs duty + 10% GST and googled "australian tax books" and only mentions of the 10% GST. Perhaps you can provide evidence because I can't find it.
If Australia is the sort of country that charges 30% import duty on books I think it's time I find another country, not sure I want to live somewhere like that I only paid 10% to import my car.
I haven't bothered to follow this thread but the "Australia Tax" is just a name that represents the vast price difference australian's pay just because. The vast majority of items imported into australia have no taxes applied to them. Our GST is only applicable to imports greater than $1000.
To say this once and once only, it has nothing to do with wages, property rents or whatever piss poor excuse you can come up with. Price differences on digitally distributed items disproves all of that. Companies charge Australians more simply because they can get away with it.
To say this once and once only, it has nothing to do with wages, property rents or whatever piss poor excuse you can come up with. Price differences on digitally distributed items disproves all of that. Companies charge Australians more simply because they can get away with it.
Everyone I know in AUS working in similar fields also earns 40% more than me in the UK.
This translates into the price of beer and other items too. It's the cost of living in Australia...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lots of things are marked up in Australia for this very reason....
Mij'aan wrote: Everyone I know in AUS working in similar fields also earns 40% more than me in the UK. This translates into the price of beer and other items too. It's the cost of living in Australia...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lots of things are marked up in Australia for this very reason....
According to the average wage stats I linked earlier in this thread: The average wage in Aus is 10% higher than in the UK. The average wage in Aus is 15% lower than in the US.
The SM strikeforce is $225 in the US, £140 ($US235) in the UK and $350 ($US323) in Aus. How do those figures fit into your argument you think? The highest average wage country pays the least.
Wages affect the cost of items produced in Australia, not produced overseas.
Mij'aan wrote: Everyone I know in AUS working in similar fields also earns 40% more than me in the UK. This translates into the price of beer and other items too. It's the cost of living in Australia...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lots of things are marked up in Australia for this very reason....
That's interesting, because I worked for a couple of years in the US and everyone working in similar fields earns only marginally less than I did. People in lower paying jobs (closer to minimum wage) tended to earn less, but then after talking to many of my friends we discovered that the luxury item spending money they had wasn't much less largely due to much lower rent costs in the area I was living over there compared to where I was living in Australia, also fuel and vehicles tended to be cheaper.
Wages affect the cost of items produced in Australia, not produced overseas.
For Aus I would think the costs for GW for product would be the same as for UK/US. The packaging is not AU specific so unless they ship the sprues and pack here, then the economies of scale would have to kick in and production costs would be similar for any English language market.
Local wages, rent etc might contribute to the difference but not to the extent that justifies the differences we have. GW are slapping on a premium because they can and actively make it difficult to get product from cheaper regions (eg terms of trade in EU, website limitations fo US 3rd party sellers)
Mij'aan wrote: Everyone I know in AUS working in similar fields also earns 40% more than me in the UK.
This translates into the price of beer and other items too. It's the cost of living in Australia...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lots of things are marked up in Australia for this very reason....
That's interesting, because I worked for a couple of years in the US and everyone working in similar fields earns only marginally less than I did. People in lower paying jobs (closer to minimum wage) tended to earn less, but then after talking to many of my friends we discovered that the luxury item spending money they had wasn't much less largely due to much lower rent costs in the area I was living over there compared to where I was living in Australia, also fuel and vehicles tended to be cheaper.
So much for random anecdotal evidence!
At what point did I mention the US?
In different parts of ENGLAND, the cost of living is different. In London, it can cost £500,000 for a house that, in yorkshire would cost £90,000. That said, when a product is sold within England, it is often the same flat price across the country.
Therefore, those in London working for more money but with a higher cost of living, enjoy the purchase of their product at a better % of their wage than those that live further north, in Yorkshire.
Example being, I earn around £1,300 per month. My friend works for the same company - in the same job role, but at a site in London. He gets at least £2,000 per month.
After food, rent, and essentials is out of the way - he is left with a larger chunk of his wage to spend on items. Example being he can buy more Warhammer than I can, because it's the same price across the country.
If GW could, (and successfully seperate us) they'd increase the price in areas like London and charge them far more for their products. Because the cost of living is higher, wages are higher etc.
In very very simple terms, This is what they are doing with Australia.
You didn't mention the US, I was just countering your random anecdotal evidence of a pricing disparity with my own random anecdotal evidence of a pricing disparity from the same company but differing countries. Just because you say people in your field earn much less in the UK than Australia it doesn't account for a hell of a lot.
I love Dakka, it's the one place in which people really love to argue and counter argue about the finest points.
Find me the average recommended retail price of a Coca Cola Can, Bottle of Jack Daniels, etc. You will find their prices are inflated. (in comparison to the UK) ...and other consumer products too. It's how the world works.
But nope. You don't want to discuss it you want hard evidence. The only hard evidence is this:
If GW can charge more, GW will charge more.
If there was a way to isolate north and south of england as pricing zones, and charge the south of england more in a bid for extra profit, they would, if they could. McDonalds is more expensive in the south, drinks are more expensive in bars, food is more expensive in super markets. Because you're not going to order a Big Mac from Sheffield and send it to your house in London are you?
But you could with GW products. You'd just order it in from the north wouldn't you?
So how does GW stop that? Put a ban on GW stockists from shipping outside the north of england? Not feesable you say.
But this is what they've done on a worldwide scale. I'm not saying I agree with it, but this is the reason for it. You can argue against me all you want, but the facts are clear. GW can charge more and will charge more.
Mij'aan wrote: I love Dakka, it's the one place in which people really love to argue and counter argue about the finest points. Find me the average recommended retail price of a Coca Cola Can, Bottle of Jack Daniels, etc. You will find their prices are inflated. (in comparison to the UK) ...and other consumer products too. It's how the world works.
But nope. You don't want to discuss it you want hard evidence.
Coca-cola is produced locally and therefore uses local production costs - which is affected by local wages. Alcohol has widely varying tax rates and so is a bad comparison internationally for anything other than alcohol price.
I gave you hard evidence countering your argument regarding average wages in countries being the causal factor for GW price disparity and you didn't seem to want to discuss it.
Mij'aan wrote: I love Dakka, it's the one place in which people really love to argue and counter argue about the finest points.
Find me the average recommended retail price of a Coca Cola Can, Bottle of Jack Daniels, etc. You will find their prices are inflated. (in comparison to the UK) ...and other consumer products too. It's how the world works.
But nope. You don't want to discuss it you want hard evidence.
Coca-cola is produced locally and therefore uses local production costs - which is affected by local wages. Alcohol has widely varying tax rates and so is a bad comparison internationally for anything other than alcohol price.
I gave you hard evidence countering your argument regarding average wages in countries being the causal factor for GW price disparity and you didn't seem to want to discuss it.
Sorry mate but he is right about the UK pricing and while it's a load of crap that they do it, they get away with this kinda crap in every country they can.
Mij'aan wrote: They wouldn't charge more in Australia if people weren't able to pay more would they?
*Willing* to pay more. In the west, ability to pay is pretty much a wash. That's the point. The data I provided showed that the average wage is higher in the US and GW models cost less. The yanks are able to pay more, but they don't pay more, they pay substantially less - that proves your argument wrong.
And not everyone's willing to pay more, just imagine how many sales they've lost from people refusing to buy more models or going to a difference source for them.
PrinceRaven wrote: And not everyone's willing to pay more, just imagine how many sales they've lost from people refusing to buy more models or going to a difference source for them.
As evidenced by a 4% drop in .. profit was it? for the Australian region compared to an increase in the US region.
I think we can all agree that the pricing scheme they have is unfair towards the Australian consumers be it digitally or hard products. Its the old catch 22 argument, if they continue to raise the price of products to cover "costs" they drive away the consumers but if they drop the price to attract the consumer they possibly won't have enough to cover their "costs". But in saying that have they already pissed off their consumers enough to damage their sales? time will tell really.
You exalt the arguments rebutted *on the same page* that you continue to ignore? Time to click another button near the exalt I think. It is pointless trying to engage with you.
You exalt the arguments rebutted *on the same page* that you continue to ignore? Time to click another button near the exalt I think. It is pointless trying to engage with you.
No my friend, it's pointless trying to discuss it with you.
My point is laid bare before you and has now been highlighted by other people, I won't continue to engage you in conversation regarding it beyond this point however.
You don't have to take everything so personal...
Items cost more in Australia, it's not just GW that does it. End of topic.
Mij'aan wrote: Items cost more in Australia, it's not just GW that does it. End of topic.
There's a difference though. Electronics are another example of this gouging where things cost more because it's Australia. But it's universal. There is nowhere you can buy a TV here that isn't inflated like that, nowhere to get your iPad that doesn't cost you a chunk more. All the retailers have got together and decided that's the way it'll be.
But that's not true of wargaming. In fact it's only GW that has attempted to do this. It'd be like Sony deciding to up the costs on everything relating to Playstations by 40-50% while Microsoft and Nintendo sell for a more reasonable price. People want to play those Playstation exclusives and it does have the best hardware but that value is not limitless.
So it's not the end of the discussion because the corollary is that GW is costing itself customers while the other gougers aren't. People are realising that if they skip a few GW purchases they can build entire armies for other games and those games are no longer as difficult to find as they once were.
clively wrote: . It isn't just GW that charges more, everyone does.
Except 'everyone' doesn't.
Many companies do, certainly. But there is a growing awareness that people aren't happy with that state of affairs. And as internet shopping becomes a more widely accepted practice, allowing people to circumvent the local prices, companies are slowly starting to realise that they can't continue to set their prices using 15-year-old exchange rates as a baseline and pocketing the difference.
Some companies are fighting it by lobbying the government to add GST to all imports (which the Customs office has said would cost them more to run than they would bring in from it, and which wouldn't actually fix anything since adding 10% to the price of something that is twice as expensive locally still makes it cheaper...), some are just complaining that people are being all 'un-Australian' by not supporting the local businesses that are trying in an apparently very Australian way to gouge them for every cent they can... and others are accepting that the retail world is changing and adjusting to suit.
And the reason this is happening is because people are talking about it.
insaniak wrote: And the reason this is happening is because people are talking about it.
Change doesn't happen by stifling discussion.
Exactly, much <3
This topic won't convince GW. It might make more Australians aware of the practice and the alternatives, which will cut into GWAUs profits which *will* convince GW.
clively wrote: . It isn't just GW that charges more, everyone does.
Except 'everyone' doesn't.
Many companies do, certainly. But there is a growing awareness that people aren't happy with that state of affairs. And as internet shopping becomes a more widely accepted practice, allowing people to circumvent the local prices, companies are slowly starting to realise that they can't continue to set their prices using 15-year-old exchange rates as a baseline and pocketing the difference.
Some companies are fighting it by lobbying the government to add GST to all imports (which the Customs office has said would cost them more to run than they would bring in from it, and which wouldn't actually fix anything since adding 10% to the price of something that is twice as expensive locally still makes it cheaper...), some are just complaining that people are being all 'un-Australian' by not supporting the local businesses that are trying in an apparently very Australian way to gouge them for every cent they can... and others are accepting that the retail world is changing and adjusting to suit.
And the reason this is happening is because people are talking about it.
Yeah, many things cost more in Australia... many things also don't, wargames is one thing where for the most part it doesn't cost more in Australia outside of GW.
I'm not sure why we have to accept it and move on just because a few people are stuck in the mindset that everything has to cost more in Australia just because it's Australia. It seems to me that across the board more people are importing when companies try and rip us off for no good reason and I'd like to see that continue until the likes of GW institute a better international pricing scheme.
The fact they closed down international sales does not make me like them any more, it wasn't that many years ago I ordered something direct from UKGW to Australia. Also that they actively screwed over my FLGS on many occasions (an odd coincidence that there was an official GW store nearby? perhaps).
Compare this to a video game developer like CD Projekt who went out of their way to try and get around the publisher to offer games cheaper to Australians, I am a vocal supporter of them for their business practices the same way I'm a vocal detractor of GW's business practices.
If we can get more Brits and American's here that aren't affected by this in any way to let us know how unimportant it is and that we should just deal with it, I think that would greatly continue to add to the discussion.
So today I went down to my friendly local games store and bought some Hordes models for roughly the same price as they cost in the UK, US, or anywhere else in the world.
oh really? I just went down to my local games store (not a gw) and paid $140 for the new 40k rulebook. Which I might add all I want is the rules not all of the fluff that I've already read in the last two editions. so realistically the rule book should only be around $70 or so....
Automatically Appended Next Post: PrinceRaven I love your banner. I even read it in Aku's voice.
GW will attempt maximise their profit. If they can do that by charging high prices in Australia and selling to a low number of customers, they will. If it means selling models for $1 the US and $100 in Australia, they will, if they can. Companies try to segregate markets like this all the time (air plane tickets are the notorious example, where you can pay half the price of the person sitting next to you for ostensibly the same service). It is just getting more difficult to segregate markets by geographical boundaries as online shopping becomes mainstream and previously stable exchange rates change.
Currently it seems that Australians are willing to pay a higher numerical value for GW products than people in other areas of the world. Whether that is because we have greater purchasing power/ more disposable income, or perhaps as a culture we just like expensive products more than cheap ones?
PrinceRaven wrote: So today I went down to my friendly local games store and bought some Hordes models for roughly the same price as they cost in the UK, US, or anywhere else in the world.
Privateer Press, and most other manufacturers, do not have a regional pricing strategy. Australian distributors buy at international wholesale prices and retailers are expected to come up with their own prices based on their wholesale price or manufacturer RRP. FLGS are encouraged to have prices close to the international RRP because the manufacturer have not been able to successfully segregate the market, unlike GW.
Trasvi wrote: Currently it seems that Australians are willing to pay a higher numerical value for GW products than people in other areas of the world.
Evidence suggests otherwise. Australia actually skipped the last couple of price hikes before the new attitude of 'we're totally not raising prices any more except when we do anything to a box', and new kits tend to be closer to US prices than ever before. They're still higher though, and in some cases ridiculously so (like the books).
So there's evidence that Australians aren't willing to pay more, and GW have passed us over for some significant hikes in favor of using Australia as the new baseline, as other regions are now catching up to us. However, there is still disparity in prices, sometimes large, that Australians are still sick of paying.
We'll see what happens when the rest of the world catches up to us.
We understand that they're overcharging because they want money. But it doesn't take an economics degree to tell that when it comes to the point where your minis are so overpriced in one region that it's cheaper for your consumers to buy them in another region and import them themselves you're gonna have issues.
Trasvi wrote: In this thread: people who fail economics.
We fully understand *why* GW are doing this - we've spent 7 pages saying so. You must fail at reading comprehension rather than us failing at economics (amusing but I'll refrain from saying why) if you don't realize this
We're saying it's not right - for the consumer - and we have the power to change it. If we can't change it, we're ensuring people know the alternatives so they don't need to pay it, which may end up resulting in the change we want. We're also just having a good ole whinge.
edit: Thirding the rebuttals that we aren't willing to pay more, supported by the data given earlier in this thread that AU profits are falling compared to increasing elsewhere, combined with the skipping of price hikes mentioned by Loki.
PrinceRaven wrote: We understand that they're overcharging because they want money. But it doesn't take an economics degree to tell that when it comes to the point where your minis are so overpriced in one region that it's cheaper for your consumers to buy them in another region and import them themselves you're gonna have issues.
Yes you keep mentioning it, but the price you pay importing them doesn't help pay for the local Australian GW operation's overheads. A fact that you continually ignore.
This I think will we be an issue for some time thanks to the internet. people nowadays have the ability to research anything they want compared to the old days were information wasn't a wide reaching. if that all makes sense.
44Ronin Yes you keep mentioning it, but the price you pay importing them doesn't help pay for the local Australian GW operation's overheads. A fact that you continually ignore.
If the price disparity wasn't so large we wouldn't go to the effort of importing them in the first place. As it is the factoring in the cost of importing is hardly a consideration since we are still getting our hobby fix for significantly less.
I genuinely don't see why people aren't just importing them. I often buy from FLGS rather than GW just because it's cheaper and for no other reason.
If it's cheaper to import them, import them. You might be paying more than someone in the UK buying them as you're paying for shipping but the price will still be cheaper than buying directly from GW in Australia.
If everyone did this surely GW would start to reduce the prices?
But if people continue to pay the prices then they will continue to charge them.
I never once said it was right for them to do so, but that doesn't change the fact that they do it. As previously stated, many companies mark up prices (Yes, other miniature companies don't, perhaps because they want to attract people to their product rather than maximize profit)
GW is the king of the miniature industry. Their product is a premium product and will be marked up where they believe they can squeeze the most profit.
Aus posters, I'm not telling you to get over it at all. You guys have asked questions and I'm just trying to offer answers. Don't get over it, tell GW how ridiculous it is. All of you e mail them and tell them exactly what you think.
I can't see it making a difference but I hope it does.
PrinceRaven wrote: We understand that they're overcharging because they want money. But it doesn't take an economics degree to tell that when it comes to the point where your minis are so overpriced in one region that it's cheaper for your consumers to buy them in another region and import them themselves you're gonna have issues.
Yes you keep mentioning it, but the price you pay importing them doesn't help pay for the local Australian GW operation's overheads. A fact that you continually ignore.
I'm not sure why I should care about a company's inability to run their regional business.
I'd be much more inclined to pay Australian prices if I knew that the wholesale price were closer to parity but the RRP were higher to maintain storefronts here (both FLGS and GW storefronts) due to higher running costs here. But because the wholesale prices are high, and FLGS's still manage to discount things, meaning very little money is actually going to the storefront but rather to GW's greed and/or inability to run a business, I have little problem with importing. I don't think it's a coincidence that since I've been playing all the local FLGS's have gone from proudly displaying their GW products prominently to hiding them away behind everything else. Even an online store like TheCombatCompany used to have a direct link to GW products on their home page and now simply have them under "general sci fi" and "general fantasy".
Mij'aan wrote: I genuinely don't see why people aren't just importing them. I often buy from FLGS rather than GW just because it's cheaper and for no other reason.
If it's cheaper to import them, import them. You might be paying more than someone in the UK buying them as you're paying for shipping but the price will still be cheaper than buying directly from GW in Australia.
If everyone did this surely GW would start to reduce the prices?
But if people continue to pay the prices then they will continue to charge them.
I never once said it was right for them to do so, but that doesn't change the fact that they do it. As previously stated, many companies mark up prices (Yes, other miniature companies don't, perhaps because they want to attract people to their product rather than maximize profit)
GW is the king of the miniature industry. Their product is a premium product and will be marked up where they believe they can squeeze the most profit.
Aus posters, I'm not telling you to get over it at all. You guys have asked questions and I'm just trying to offer answers. Don't get over it, tell GW how ridiculous it is. All of you e mail them and tell them exactly what you think.
I can't see it making a difference but I hope it does.
Mij'aan wrote: Aus posters, I'm not telling you to get over it at all. You guys have asked questions and I'm just trying to offer answers. Don't get over it, tell GW how ridiculous it is. All of you e mail them and tell them exactly what you think.
That was basically the whole point of this thread, lol. We don't need to be told "it happens", we know that already (except maybe some newbies who have never stumbled on to the international GW sites). We also don't need to be given reasons like "everything costs more!" and "but you make more money!" when those are only situationally true blanket statements.
But yeah, getting everyone to import is hard. I import a lot of things, but often the easiest thing is to just buy from a local discounter (who is paying GW their absurdly high wholesale price) and get your stuff in a couple of days instead of waiting for international shipping.
The actual GW store I've only used to buy the odd paint here and there for the past several years, I think the last model I bought from them was a single box of Cadians about 4 years ago because I wanted to test out some paint schemes (the rest of my IG army I got elsewhere). If it weren't for the fact the store owner is a nice guy I wouldn't even darken the door of the place.
Mij'aan wrote: Aus posters, I'm not telling you to get over it at all. You guys have asked questions and I'm just trying to offer answers. Don't get over it, tell GW how ridiculous it is. All of you e mail them and tell them exactly what you think.
That was basically the whole point of this thread, lol. We don't need to be told "it happens", we know that already (except maybe some newbies who have never stumbled on to the international GW sites). We also don't need to be given reasons like "everything costs more!" and "but you make more money!" when those are only situationally true blanket statements.
I think that's why Australians tend to get a bit grumpy when we're told things like "but minimum wage!", "but isolation!" or "but everything costs more!".
Aye, my apologies if my previous posts sounded arrogant and what not. I agree you guys should say something about it. But, when questions as to WHY you get charged the prices you do, I tried my best to answer.
Still, what matters is telling GW that they're robbing you blind. It's down to them to listen to you or not!
Good Luck. Their products are all overpriced everywhere anyway! (But we just can't help it)
44Ronin wrote: Yes you keep mentioning it, but the price you pay importing them doesn't help pay for the local Australian GW operation's overheads. A fact that you continually ignore.
Yes, people ignore that. As well they should, because it's none of their concern.
Let's say I have two shops in my neighbourhood. One of them is a guy working for himself, in the basement of a building owned by his dad. So he has very low overheads, and sells everything at a 20% discount.
The other shop is a big, glitzy shop in the main street, employs 3 full time staff, pays phenominal rent, and charges 10% above retail for the same product as the first store.
Guess what? I'm going to buy from the first store.
GW in Oz is the second store. I understand why they're more expensive. I just don't care. I am under no obligation to subsidise their chosen business model.
44Ronin wrote: Yes you keep mentioning it, but the price you pay importing them doesn't help pay for the local Australian GW operation's overheads. A fact that you continually ignore.
Yes, people ignore that. As well they should, because it's none of their concern.
Let's say I have two shops in my neighbourhood. One of them is a guy working for himself, in the basement of a building owned by his dad. So he has very low overheads, and sells everything at a 20% discount.
The other shop is a big, glitzy shop in the main street, employs 3 full time staff, pays phenominal rent, and charges 10% above retail for the same product as the first store.
Guess what? I'm going to buy from the first store.
GW in Oz is the second store. I understand why they're more expensive. I just don't care. I am under no obligation to subsidise their chosen business model.
If you don't care then why are you whining?
No, you did concern yourself, by whinging about a fantasy of market 'parity'
Maybe you should actually learn something about market segmentation.
insaniak wrote: GW in Oz is the second store. I understand why they're more expensive. I just don't care. I am under no obligation to subsidise their chosen business model.
If you don't care then why are you whining?
No, you did concern yourself, by whinging about a fantasy of market 'parity'
Maybe you should actually learn something about market segmentation.
They're both saying they don't care that GW have overheads and whatnot to pay, They are charging more for the same product than they should be in their opinions (and that of most Australians).
It's not our fault GW are determined to continue with a failing business model and we are NOT going to pay more to support it.
insaniak wrote: GW in Oz is the second store. I understand why they're more expensive. I just don't care. I am under no obligation to subsidise their chosen business model.
If you don't care then why are you whining?
No, you did concern yourself, by whinging about a fantasy of market 'parity'
Maybe you should actually learn something about market segmentation.
They're both saying they don't care that GW have overheads and whatnot to pay, They are charging more for the same product than they should be in their opinions (and that of most Australians).
It's not our fault GW are determined to continue with a failing business model and we are NOT going to pay more to support it.
1st world problems from people who cannot comprehend market segmentation.
44Ronin wrote: 1st world problems from people who cannot comprehend market segmentation.
Once again you accuse people of not knowing a term, yet it's plainly evident you don't know what it means as it's not applicable here.
"Market segmentation is a marketing strategy that involves dividing a broad target market into subsets of consumers who have common needs and priorities, and then designing and implementing strategies to target them."
The correct term is Price Discrimination: or price differentiation is a pricing strategy where identical or largely similar goods or services are transacted at different prices by the same provider in different markets or territories.
44Ronin: Congrats, you selected one of the new models which actually has pricing parity around the world, disproving your own argument that GW needs to charge more for their models to maintain their business in Australia.
44Ronin wrote: If you don't care then why are you whining?
No, you did concern yourself, by whinging about a fantasy of market 'parity'
You realise that this response doesn't actually make any sense in the context of what I actually said, right?
Maybe you should actually learn something about market segmentation.
Why?
Seriously. You seem to have this odd idea that it is the job of the consumer to support the retailer's chosen business model. It's not. The retailer's 'job' is to buy what they want, from wherever they want to buy it from.
I understand market segmentation. I understand that different countries have different economies, and different buying power. I also understand that in this day and age, where I can buy something from the other side of the planet as easily (in some cases easier) than from the other side of town, all of that goes straight out the window. Companies need to start looking at the fact that their customers aren't confined by artificial regionalisation any more... and to some extent, GW finally has, as is shown by their attempts to put the genie back in the bottle with their regional sales policy, followed by the more recent model pricing strategy which started to kick in when they apparently realised what a colossal failure the regional sales policy was...
PrinceRaven wrote: 44Ronin: Congrats, you selected one of the new models which actually has pricing parity around the world, disproving your own argument that GW needs to charge more for their models to maintain their business in Australia.
I already explained to you about 4,999 times that they will not devalue existing stock
I already mentioned that the GW business model is in a state of transition, identity crisis
As said, they will not devalue stock. Considering the stores will not run a sale, like...ever... consider the chance of them perma-lowering stock as sitting very much next to 0.
44Ronin wrote: If you don't care then why are you whining?
No, you did concern yourself, by whinging about a fantasy of market 'parity'
You realise that this response doesn't actually make any sense in the context of what I actually said, right?
Maybe you should actually learn something about market segmentation.
Why?
Seriously. You seem to have this odd idea that it is the job of the consumer to support the retailer's chosen business model. It's not. The retailer's 'job' is to buy what they want, from wherever they want to buy it from.
I understand market segmentation. I understand that different countries have different economies, and different buying power. I also understand that in this day and age, where I can buy something from the other side of the planet as easily (in some cases easier) than from the other side of town, all of that goes straight out the window. Companies need to start looking at the fact that their customers aren't confined by artificial regionalisation any more... and to some extent, GW finally has, as is shown by their attempts to put the genie back in the bottle with their regional sales policy, followed by the more recent model pricing strategy which started to kick in when they apparently realised what a colossal failure the regional sales policy was...
For a company like GW, who have always bee aiming for a premium product with premium branding (eg., not Mantic lulz) maintaining brand value has always been #1 key point for them.
Now, they probably hit the proverbial brick wall at where consumers will pay, so instead of damaging their brand value by lowering RRP on existing stock, they are keeping parity on the new items. This is because they always aim at the high end of the market in gaming.
As for the consumer backing a business model, the consumer always backs a business model as you say...by buying a product and providing turn over for a product. Even if you ship their stuff from the states.
44Ronin wrote: I'd love to see you whine about designer handbags, leica cameras and expensive polo shirts lol.
And that's quite enough of that. Seriously, dismissing an opinion you disagree with as 'whining' adds nothing useful to the discussion. Any further posts of this nature will be treated as trolling.
They like to think and act as if they are the Ferrari of wargaming but they are the Ford of wargaming. I have never met anyone who's first car was a Ferrari, nor anyone who would question the quality of a Ferrari compared to a Ford.
GW is most peoples first experience with the hobby and comparing GWs products at Ozzie prices to other products they do NOT stand up in quality to equally priced products.
As well half the point of those luxury handbags and cloths is showing off that you are rich enough to afford them. You don't get that with GW because, as I said, everyone starts out with them.
It's premium enough to be more premium than the others. The high prices they can still sell at reflects this.
GW is most peoples first experience with the hobby and comparing GWs products at Ozzie prices to other products they do NOT stand up in quality to equally priced products
Quality =/= premium product. Brand positioning = premium product eg., how much people are willing to pay for any given item. Many OEM producers will sell rebrands of THE VERY same product which sell upmarket, some sell lower. The key point is perception.
People will pay more for GW than other stuff, that much is pretty clear. The question is., how many and where the threshold lies.
To clarify, the extreme examples (as I told you they were) were a jest to get back at the charming way you told me my posts were load of excrement excuses.
GW brand positions through store experience. they aim for a premium that's higher than say... mantic (lol)
Now whether you believe it or not, they (GW) believe it (haha)
Fact is GW are hemoraging sales in the Oz market so no, people are not willing to pay those prices.
....
Just because some people aren't willing to pay, doesn't mean others won't pay. The fact that they consistently applied price rises above inflation over and over again proves this over a long track record. There are still those who are willing to pay GW RRP.
Also the idea that GWs store experience adds value is laughable these days with the 1 man store model.
To discount their existence completely is naive and wrong.
44Ronin wrote: Just because some people aren't willing to pay, doesn't mean others won't pay.
Sure. But the fact that their sales volumes have been decreasing for a while now suggests that fewer people will.
To discount their existence completely is naive and wrong.
Completely? Sure.
I can not see any possible way though that GW stores have had any particularly great impact on GW sales in Australia in the time they have been around, though, given how few of them there are and how spread out our population is. The move to 1-man stores in worse locations can only make this more pronounced.
It goes even further south as more and more Australians turn to online shopping, which has been comparatively slow getting going down here. While GW's regional sales policy no doubt put a dent in that, it didn't take people long to find ways around it, so until prices finish equalising, they'll continue to lose sales to cheaper regions.
You're saying they are increasing the price because people are willing to pay. They still have at least 1 sale a year so congrats, you are technically correct. Having said that compare current sales with 5 or 10 years ago. The MAJORITY of people aren't willing, and that is the important part.
If you don't understand how getting the same amount of money but losing 10% of your customer base year on year is going to lead to a total disaster then you're ignoring or ignorant of one of the most basic principles of retail and there isn't any further point discussing this.
And as for the stores name 1 thing they do now a properly manned FLGS can't.
jonolikespie wrote: And as for the stores name 1 thing they do now a properly manned FLGS can't.
I can answer that for you. NOTHING! our games store (privately owned) does tournaments monthly (40K the first weekend of the month, fantasy the second then games like vanguard and x-wing take up the other two). hell even the club that I'm events manager of does learn to paint and learn to play on Thursday nights rotating weekly there as well. So yeah. the GW shops don't do anything more (and in most cases I imagine they do less) then a privately owned games store.
insaniak wrote: Well, they can sell the new products that don't get supplied to independant stores due to 'supply issues'...
Create a product. Sell the product through your own store, own website and multiple other retailers. The other retailers pay less for your product and charge less, but help create your customer base.
Choke the supply to these retailers and supply your own store, charging the full retail price. GW's Business Model.
insaniak wrote: Well, they can sell the new products that don't get supplied to independant stores due to 'supply issues'...
Create a product. Sell the product through your own store, own website and multiple other retailers. The other retailers pay less for your product and charge less, but help create your customer base.
Choke the supply to these retailers and supply your own store, charging the full retail price. GW's Business Model.
You missed a few steps. Local business closes/stops selling GW because of choked off business, GW store then goes for another year, moves across the road into a corner store as a one man store, makes less and less money because it's now out of the way, often closed, and has less space for gaming, right up until it closes.
You missed another step too ; p Customers move purchases of many non-stocked GW products to China for easier, cheaper access and better customer relations.
That hasn't been my experience. People don't stop buying from GW to buy from recasters, they stop buying GW to buy from PP, CB, Mantic, Spartan Games, ect.
jonolikespie wrote: That hasn't been my experience. People don't stop buying from GW to buy from recasters, they stop buying GW to buy from PP, CB, Mantic, Spartan Games, ect.
It's more both for people I know. Big shift to warmahordes and Dreadball, soon Deadzone too. But we *do* like our 40k, so we have a lot of "digital" rules and resin pieces now. GWs actions are just giving their competitors a much stronger foothold in Aus and making recasting very rewarding and therefore very common. That said I just oredered 3x SM Strike Force Ultras from Discoutn Games Store in the US. The models come out at about 40% of Aussie RRP, including shipping.
jonolikespie wrote: That hasn't been my experience. People don't stop buying from GW to buy from recasters, they stop buying GW to buy from PP, CB, Mantic, Spartan Games, ect.
Honestly, Many people I know have bought from people recasting GW stuff.
Whilst I wouldn't promote the blatant piracy and whatnot, I can see why people do it.
GW's product is expensive. Overly so. But - We all love it.
For lack of trying to derail the thread though, I'm sure other people here have done the same too. Please don't start noting sources of it... we all know where it's from.
Zagaboff wrote: How long till it's all web based purchases? Do away with GW stores and clamp down supply on flgs to make people buy online from GW direct.
It already went in that direction with the 1 man store option, 1 wage to 1 staff member running that 1 store in that particular area. Minimum cost to maximise profits. I think it's currently as far in that direction as it can go without making losses.
Whilst there's still people who go into stores and spend money, (whilst some of the sales reps are good at selling their products and pushing the sales every month to the same set of customers, and new ones) we will still see the stores.
Zagaboff wrote: How long till it's all web based purchases? Do away with GW stores and clamp down supply on flgs to make people buy online from GW direct.
If GW were the type of company to share the savings with the customers I'd be all for this. I much prefer to buy direct where possible. Imagine a GW where the basic price was 30% cheaper than it is now, with periodic sales at additional discounts. A man can dream.
Exalted.
it cost 6 cents more
or even getting a lower margin on the one sold in AUS...naw it cannot be! :tinfoil:
