I need one - and then i need to find someone with a normal Cerastus-knight carapace to swap with - that rounded carapace kinda spoils the overall look for me.
Whatever one thinks of the model, you gotta say that the paint job is superb.
Automatically Appended Next Post: All these variants almost make me want to start an Imperial Knight army. Those Maegara and Atropos models are just too darn nice...
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Whatever one thinks of the model, you gotta say that the paint job is superb.
Automatically Appended Next Post: All these variants almost make me want to start an Imperial Knight army. Those Maegara and Atropos models are just too darn nice...
Agreed.
Oh, and - Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it!....
Hitting the Open Day tomorrow, any requests for photos/details of specific FW stuff in here you're super jazzed to see?
Bear in mind this will consist of sideways phone photos until I get home in the afternoon and unload my camera.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Hitting the Open Day tomorrow, any requests for photos/details of specific FW stuff in here you're super jazzed to see?
Bear in mind this will consist of sideways phone photos until I get home in the afternoon and unload my camera.
If you can just get info about the Badab CT and characters, I'd be appreciative. New Imperial Knight pics are ALWAYS welcome too.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Hitting the Open Day tomorrow, any requests for photos/details of specific FW stuff in here you're super jazzed to see?
Bear in mind this will consist of sideways phone photos until I get home in the afternoon and unload my camera.
If you can just get info about the Badab CT and characters, I'd be appreciative. New Imperial Knight pics are ALWAYS welcome too.
This, and whether the IG General from Mymaera is going to be requiring me to buy the book or if it'll be a PDF.
Oh and pictures of the forthcoming Raven Guard guys, and whether they'll be making an appearance in the redone Kastorel-Novem book.
Oh also, can you ask them if IA8 - Novem is getting an update? Seems they have skiped the Badab series and gone to 11 - what about 8 in terms of Orks/RG/IG?
Buttery Commissar wrote: Hitting the Open Day tomorrow, any requests for photos/details of specific FW stuff in here you're super jazzed to see?
Bear in mind this will consist of sideways phone photos until I get home in the afternoon and unload my camera.
Pester them about updating the IA12 Necron stuff plesase
Buttery Commissar wrote: Hitting the Open Day tomorrow, any requests for photos/details of specific FW stuff in here you're super jazzed to see?
Bear in mind this will consist of sideways phone photos until I get home in the afternoon and unload my camera.
If you can just get info about the Badab CT and characters, I'd be appreciative. New Imperial Knight pics are ALWAYS welcome too.
This, and whether the IG General from Mymaera is going to be requiring me to buy the book or if it'll be a PDF.
Oh and pictures of the forthcoming Raven Guard guys, and whether they'll be making an appearance in the redone Kastorel-Novem book.
Ratius wrote:Oh also, can you ask them if IA8 - Novem is getting an update? Seems they have skiped the Badab series and gone to 11 - what about 8 in terms of Orks/RG/IG?
Explain these things to me using unabbreviated words and I'll try.
I'm very new to 40K and am roughly aware that there's more than one kind of IG tank.
This is only a slight exaggeration.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Hitting the Open Day tomorrow, any requests for photos/details of specific FW stuff in here you're super jazzed to see?
Bear in mind this will consist of sideways phone photos until I get home in the afternoon and unload my camera.
If you can just get info about the Badab CT and characters, I'd be appreciative. New Imperial Knight pics are ALWAYS welcome too.
This, and whether the IG General from Mymaera is going to be requiring me to buy the book or if it'll be a PDF.
Oh and pictures of the forthcoming Raven Guard guys, and whether they'll be making an appearance in the redone Kastorel-Novem book.
Ratius wrote:Oh also, can you ask them if IA8 - Novem is getting an update? Seems they have skiped the Badab series and gone to 11 - what about 8 in terms of Orks/RG/IG?
Explain these things to me using unabbreviated words and I'll try.
I'm very new to 40K and am roughly aware that there's more than one kind of IG tank.
This is only a slight exaggeration.
The first statement refers to the "Badab War" two book set which had rules for toooooooons of Space Marine Chapters. They currently have a PDF available for players that includes the Chapter Tactics and characters...designed for the previous Space Marine book. Supposedly there has been a redo of those PDF rules inbound for quite some time. It would be nice to know the status of that.
Additionally, the forthcoming revamp of "Imperial Armour: Doom of Mymeara" is the Eldar versus Space Wolves and Imperial Guard book. There is a character in the current version of "Doom of Mymeara" named "General Myndoras Odon".
I would like you to ask if he is getting redone rules--and if he is, will the rules be free PDF or located within the redone "Doom" book.
I would also like you to get pictures of the "Mor Deythan"(Seen here:
Spoiler:
) and to ask if they will become a unit choice for 40k as well as the Horus Heresy, since Raven Guard could really use some love.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Hitting the Open Day tomorrow, any requests for photos/details of specific FW stuff in here you're super jazzed to see?
Bear in mind this will consist of sideways phone photos until I get home in the afternoon and unload my camera.
Anything and everything please! If you think it's cool, snap a pic so we can all drool over the awesome sideways coolness! Specifically, a picture of the new knight would be really nce Thank you, you're doing god's work
Buttery Commissar wrote: Hitting the Open Day tomorrow, any requests for photos/details of specific FW stuff in here you're super jazzed to see?
Bear in mind this will consist of sideways phone photos until I get home in the afternoon and unload my camera.
Could you ask them when the Veletaris with power axes are going on sale? These are the 30k storm troopers, but with massive power axes instead of zappy rayguns.
I can't assure anything other than vague answers, but I'll try. Sale dates is something they're very reticent to provide, even for things like (gasp) shirts and badges.
Just to check, this is the best topic to put pics in, right? I'll leave it open and dump when I can.
Love that new Dreadnought, it's just an awesome cross between the 'standard' Dreadnought and a Contemptor, with the blocky body and shoulders but legs and arms that can actually move! Awesome design work there!
If you look on the sides of the etchings are templates. These are used to spray perfect chevrons (Iron Warriors) and also perfect lightning strikes (Night Lords). Cool!! These have only just come through the studio this week for event showing and have yet to be approved so no definite release time so watch this space for more.
Had a chat to Mark Bedford about the new Knight which he painted. He's also got a cabinet with a couple of other Kinghts (the two mechanicum ones) painted in the same scheme, and he's paining a Triaros transporters well.
It's House Malinax, and is a Dark Mechanicum aligned household. It'll be included as part of the next Heresy book, and they'll be an official paint scheme and transfers eventually. As it's the first foray into the Dark Mechanicum it's going to be relatively similar to what we've seen so far, just with access to restricted weapons. He mentioned he's also working on the leader of this new faction - which I'm assuming must be an Archmagos or similar as its Dark Mech aligned.
Ordinatus Minoris should be out shortly, it was nearly ready for this event but didn't quite make it. The alternative one is being targeted for the Weekender next year (which is February again, apparently), but can't promise anything. Unfortunately it's not as easy as plonking the Warlord Volcano Cannon on the same chassis, there's going to be some changes to make it look different and unique
Crazyterran wrote: They forgot to give the Dread Chapter Twctics/Grim Resolve/Other Marine things... :(
Experimental rules, on top of there only being 3 base attacks. Just send an email saying it needs CT and four attacks, and they'll listen.
Reading the experimental rules I think it may be intentional. Specifically the relic of darkness rule.
Interestingly they still include the relic of the armoury rule even though master of the forge doesn't exist. I haven't seen the relic of the armoury rule being changed unless I missed it?!
Crazyterran wrote: They forgot to give the Dread Chapter Twctics/Grim Resolve/Other Marine things... :(
Experimental rules, on top of there only being 3 base attacks. Just send an email saying it needs CT and four attacks, and they'll listen.
Reading the experimental rules I think it may be intentional. Specifically the relic of darkness rule.
Interestingly they still include the relic of the armoury rule even though master of the forge doesn't exist. I haven't seen the relic of the armoury rule being changed unless I missed it?!
So my Astral Claws are getting two of them. Because Master of the Forge Valthex says so.
Okay, 1). that's Tau vs. Admech, which is a good sign and 2)., while I realise this is just a display diorama, I think I see a Thanatar and what is definitely an Ordinatus amongst those Skitarii units, implying we'll get to field them together (and definitely in 40K as they're fighting Tau) . Hype status: Acquired.
*Edit* Okay on closer inspection what I thought was a Thanatar is just a Knight. I'm still holding out hope,though...
Okay, 1). that's Tau vs. Admech, which is a good sign and 2)., while I realise this is just a display diorama, I think I see a Thanatar and what is definitely an Ordinatus amongst those Skitarii units, implying we'll get to field them together (and definitely in 40K as they're fighting Tau) . Hype status: Acquired.
*Edit* Okay on closer inspection what I thought was a Thanatar is just a Knight. I'm still holding out hope,though...
Thanks for spotting that, I didn't even notice. Excited / concerned about the ordinatus coming to 40k! I'll be getting one for 30k tho for sure.
Book 6 is called Retribution
5 new stories and battles
One has DA, one BA and one Scars
'Shadow Wars'
New Missions
New Legendary missions, new forces
Blackshield and Knight errants
Expanded shattered legions
Combinable Rites of War for the Shattered Legions!
At least a sign of a new character with Garro ... but I have the feeling with Edgar gone they have problems to keep up with the former speed of releasing special characters ,,,
So glad they are deciding to make upgrades/conversions of the wraithknight. Been too long looking at imperial stuff and my big stompy robot was left out.
sierra 1247 wrote: The knights errant are space marines from loyalist and traitor legions recruited by Malcador, they're similar to the deathwatch in some respects.
Well, I missed that one. I thought that was what the Black Shields were. So what are the Black Shields? And are these covered in the HH novels? I haven't read one in several years so I'm WAY behind in that.
sierra 1247 wrote: The knights errant are space marines from loyalist and traitor legions recruited by Malcador, they're similar to the deathwatch in some respects.
Well, I missed that one. I thought that was what the Black Shields were. So what are the Black Shields? And are these covered in the HH novels? I haven't read one in several years so I'm WAY behind in that.
Maybe the Blackshields are the forerunners of the Death Company? The Chymerae designation does make them sound abberrant.
The siege dread is pretty much what I've felt dreadnoughts should have been from the beginning: nigh-unstoppable, half-mad killing machines; AV13, 4 HPs, armored ceramite, meltas and heavy flamers; fething beastmode!
sierra 1247 wrote: The knights errant are space marines from loyalist and traitor legions recruited by Malcador, they're similar to the deathwatch in some respects.
Well, I missed that one. I thought that was what the Black Shields were. So what are the Black Shields? And are these covered in the HH novels? I haven't read one in several years so I'm WAY behind in that.
The only Black Shields I know of are the Deathwatch variant.
And I really wouldn't say that the Knights Errant were like the Deathwatch--with the exception of them being drawn from different Legions(or in the Deathwatch's case, Chapters). Their purpose is to act as the trusted hand of Malcador, that's basically all.
Sorry guys, we got there before opening, but by the time we reached the door, all the talks were booked up.
Looks like that's pretty well covered though.
Got some pretty pics of the new night, I'll save you the spam and get them onto one post when I'm home in about an hour.
The new dread is awesome. My only disappointment is with the grav-flux bombard. 3D6 for penetration is very weak. The storm cannon has exactly the same average penetration roll, but with a re-roll to penetrate, 50% more range, 6 shots, and half the points cost.
Also, why would you replace both claws with drills? If you have one of each you get to choose which one to use with no downside right? I really like the claw.
sierra 1247 wrote: The knights errant are space marines from loyalist and traitor legions recruited by Malcador, they're similar to the deathwatch in some respects.
Well, I missed that one. I thought that was what the Black Shields were. So what are the Black Shields? And are these covered in the HH novels? I haven't read one in several years so I'm WAY behind in that.
Maybe the Blackshields are the forerunners of the Death Company? The Chymerae designation does make them sound abberrant.
The siege dread is pretty much what I've felt dreadnoughts should have been from the beginning: nigh-unstoppable, half-mad killing machines; AV13, 4 HPs, armored ceramite, meltas and heavy flamers; fething beastmode!
The Blackshields are legionairs that have left their parent legion and renounced it, removing all legion iconography, they are directly tied to the deathwatch, as the same practice exists within the deathwatch, and it's the exact same name.
I do doubt they are precursors to the deathwatch however.
sierra 1247 wrote: The knights errant are space marines from loyalist and traitor legions recruited by Malcador, they're similar to the deathwatch in some respects.
Well, I missed that one. I thought that was what the Black Shields were. So what are the Black Shields? And are these covered in the HH novels? I haven't read one in several years so I'm WAY behind in that.
This is what Battle Bunnies say:
Black Shields - turncoat marines (mad, revenge, experiments, space pirates) neither good or bad alien weapons and mutations- genetically changed
Don't use stuff which is disposable
Marauder squad 15 man loads of different weapons
Battle bunnies is wrong, we have only seen a single picture of a black shield, and it has 4 lines of text, none of which goes with anything battle bunnies are saying.
sierra 1247 wrote: The knights errant are space marines from loyalist and traitor legions recruited by Malcador, they're similar to the deathwatch in some respects.
Well, I missed that one. I thought that was what the Black Shields were. So what are the Black Shields? And are these covered in the HH novels? I haven't read one in several years so I'm WAY behind in that.
Maybe the Blackshields are the forerunners of the Death Company? The Chymerae designation does make them sound abberrant.
The siege dread is pretty much what I've felt dreadnoughts should have been from the beginning: nigh-unstoppable, half-mad killing machines; AV13, 4 HPs, armored ceramite, meltas and heavy flamers; fething beastmode!
The Blackshields are legionairs that have left their parent legion and renounced it, removing all legion iconography, they are directly tied to the deathwatch, as the same practice exists within the deathwatch, and it's the exact same name.
I do doubt they are precursors to the deathwatch however.
No, I didn't misspeak. I actually meant "forerunners of the Death Company" since they're in black armor and displayed next to a Blood Angels SM. It's the "Chymeriae" bit of their description that makes me think abberrant geneseed. But I could be completely wrong there.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Sorry guys, we got there before opening, but by the time we reached the door, all the talks were booked up.
Looks like that's pretty well covered though.
Got some pretty pics of the new night, I'll save you the spam and get them onto one post when I'm home in about an hour.
It was pretty terrible I thought, not a patch on what it used to be.
I was there early and all the seminars were booked up by the time I got inside, I was back home by midday.
Formosa wrote: Battle bunnies is wrong, we have only seen a single picture of a black shield, and it has 4 lines of text, none of which goes with anything battle bunnies are saying.
From the FW Open Day Amsterdam:
there're 'Black Shields' in the book (Andy Hoare and Alan Bligh created them for Deathwatch). Here they're Marines who left their Legion and fight just for themselves
Buttery Commissar wrote: Sorry guys, we got there before opening, but by the time we reached the door, all the talks were booked up.
Looks like that's pretty well covered though.
Got some pretty pics of the new night, I'll save you the spam and get them onto one post when I'm home in about an hour.
It was pretty terrible I thought, not a patch on what it used to be.
I was there early and all the seminars were booked up by the time I got inside, I was back home by midday.
Yeah, it was badly handled. Also, the publicity made a big thing about black library and there were no talks on that, nor was it particularly clear what was going on with it.
If you've never seen WHW, it would be worth the trip. But being a store and having a few figures you can only buy on the day is not an event.
The reopening was much the same, except we were trapped until 2pm due to stupidly times museum slots.
Automatically Appended Next Post: One thing I did find fun was the short talks. There was an interesting insight into timescale, speaking with one of the designers. Some if the Tau stuff released recently was conceptualised in late 2013... This may not always be the case, but I do like the idea of continuous rolling ideas.
There was a new Tau v AdMech diorama. It had several FW models, and it also has the 30k Ordinatus. I'm not familiar enough with AdMech to know if any of the knights or titans were from another era.
If you look close at some of the Tau models, particularly the Fire Warriors surrounding the Ethereal, you'll notice they're.... not quite table-top quality painted. For a display diorama, they're really under painted.
But for a controlled photoshoot, where, say, you just need take a distant picture for the cover of something like, say, Imperial Armour 14, the quality is just right. You'll never miss those details at a distance shrunk down to book-cover size.
If legit, expect the FWHH Ordinatus Minoris (or whatever that is) to be legit for Mechanicus in 40k.
That diorama was done very very quickly. To give an idea, at the start of September, there were signs up asking for freelance painters to pitch in. The sheer scale of it is the overwhelming point in person.
I got pics from the Admech end, I'll try and do a thing and not have to post once per picture in here.
Yeah, it was badly handled. Also, the publicity made a big thing about black library and there were no talks on that, nor was it particularly clear what was going on with it. If you've never seen WHW, it would be worth the trip. But being a store and having a few figures you can only buy on the day is not an event.
The reopening was much the same, except we were trapped until 2pm due to stupidly times museum slots.
This is pretty much all that's left of gamesday. I've heard similar from a few people. GW were expecting the Citadel seminar to be hugely popular and had 2 sessions set up. They weren't popular, they shut down any talk of future releases and someone mentioned empty seats. Forgeworld, on the other hand, had one seminar which was chocka.
Ok, what are the rules here and how soon am I going to be hurling my money accross the Atlantic ocean? Tell me SOMEONE got to see a tidbit of the corsair rules... PLEASE!
There was a new Tau v AdMech diorama. It had several FW models, and it also has the 30k Ordinatus. I'm not familiar enough with AdMech to know if any of the knights or titans were from another era.
If you look close at some of the Tau models, particularly the Fire Warriors surrounding the Ethereal, you'll notice they're.... not quite table-top quality painted. For a display diorama, they're really under painted.
But for a controlled photoshoot, where, say, you just need take a distant picture for the cover of something like, say, Imperial Armour 14, the quality is just right. You'll never miss those details at a distance shrunk down to book-cover size.
If legit, expect the FWHH Ordinatus Minoris (or whatever that is) to be legit for Mechanicus in 40k.
Ok, so implicit confirmation that the book still exists, but nothing explicit said about it? No hints on specific rules/new units that might be included/etc?
I saw the pic of Nathaniel Garro Hand of the Sigilite. It looked good. Its been a while since i saw a good captin model. The monster dread...meh. 40k doesn't need more super heavys.
Formosa wrote: Battle bunnies is wrong, we have only seen a single picture of a black shield, and it has 4 lines of text, none of which goes with anything battle bunnies are saying.
The words from Andy Hoare's mouth are what bunnies reported. Black shields can be anything you want them to be. They may have gone insane from what they've seen. May question or desire to kill their primarch or someone else's. May be pirates. May be genetic aberrations. May have gone to the vaults and unlocked dark tech. They can be any colours wanted as they could have an Ec helmet, world eaters shoulder pad and so on as they Nick the best bits of armour from dead individuals.
New rites of war for all. I asked Andy about EC and we'll get kakophoni as troops with relentless representing vairoseans 3rd which is nice. He also said when they revisit the red books hen things like Phoenix guard and kakophoni will be tweaked. He was the saving grace of the day as the rest was sub par - based on what the writing editorial chap said though I'm a tiny minority as I'm moaning on a thread in a forum. We shall see...
I don't suppose there's any news regarding a revised Imperial Armour 8? Last I heard it got pushed in favor of re-doing IA11 first. (Go Eldar players! I mean... I'm happy for you and all, but new ork stuff would be really cool too. Just saying.)
Two pages of the Eldar rules in Mymeara were leaked to a FB group, but I can't figure out how to link to the images. (I can't link directly to FB, and I'm not a 100% sure that putting images of leaked rules pages in my gallery would be kosher.)
Looks like Corsairs are getting Jetbike troops, though. With the option for Scatter lasers, Shuriken Cannons, Splinter Cannons, Dark Lances, or something new called a Dissonance Cannon (which can also be taken by the Felarh--sarge--in pistol form!). Dark Eldar players will weep to see that the Corsair characters have access to the Venom blades their own upgrade characters don't. In addition to Outflank they have two special rules: Dancing on the Blade's Edge and Reckless Abandon.
The new Skathach Wraithknight also looks pretty sweet. He lacks a CC weapon option, but instead gets either two deathshroud cannons (big honkin monofilament weapons) or two inferno lances (hell if I know). He can swap one out for a Scattershield. He also gets a portable webway shunt generator that essentially gives him a 12" Gate of Infinity for free (with only d6 scatter), or lets him automatically go back into Ongoing Reserves. The Shunt also protects him from mishaping.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: If you're using Chrome, you should be able to right click the image and click "Copy Image URL" to get the direct link to the images.
I wonder if the Corsair WK is going to be as OP as the normal one... I sure hope not (as I want one eventually).
Yes. per 4Chan leak, it has 2 S7 AP4 Bladestorm Shred either Hellstorm template or 48" range 7" blast will evaporate infantry. The other gun option is a 36" Melta with d3+2 shots. All for base cost of 60 points cheaper than a Knight Paladin or 55 cheaper than a bare Stormsurge. And specifically allowed to be taken in place of a normal Wraithknight in the Codex Eldar detachment/formation.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Yes. per 4Chan leak, it has 2 S7 AP4 Bladestorm Shred either Hellstorm template or 48" range 7" blast will evaporate infantry.
The other gun option is a 36" Melta with d3+2 shots.
All for base cost of 60 points cheaper than a Knight Paladin or 55 cheaper than a bare Stormsurge. And specifically allowed to be taken in place of a normal Wraithknight in the Codex Eldar detachment/formation.
2x 7" / flamer templates? Not a bad anti-horde fit, though it's "only" AP4...
2x d3+2 Melta shots? That's basically 2 Pens per gun, but short range. Definitely needs the I save to be effective, and a lack of a D sword hurts.
That all seems totally fair, and a nice balance of weapons compared to the basic kit.
Brace of pistols? That's what was used in flintlock times when it would take 2 minutes to reload each pistol, so they carries a bunch of them, sometimes 5, or more.
Formosa wrote: Battle bunnies is wrong, we have only seen a single picture of a black shield, and it has 4 lines of text, none of which goes with anything battle bunnies are saying.
From the FW Open Day Amsterdam:
there're 'Black Shields' in the book (Andy Hoare and Alan Bligh created them for Deathwatch). Here they're Marines who left their Legion and fight just for themselves
Source was Arac from Tabletopwelt.de
In Deathwatch Blackshields are presented with more of a penitent slant, where their dishonored chapter's iconography is obliterated. With shattered legions and the general emphasis on guerrilla warfare that comes with that, I'd guess that the Blackshields are gonna be the loyalist survivors of the traitor legions.
FW is really teasing me. I've always had a secret love of corsairs, and would love to start an army, but my budget is stretched thin as it is, what with uni, needing a new PC, and expectations for the new tau release. Anybody need a kidney, I have spare?
Just realised the Corsair Dancers have 2 seperate leadership values. I'm guessing this is tied to one of their special rules? I wonder what triggers the alternate value?
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Just realised the Corsair Dancers have 2 seperate leadership values. I'm guessing this is tied to one of their special rules? I wonder what triggers the alternate value?
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Just realised the Corsair Dancers have 2 seperate leadership values. I'm guessing this is tied to one of their special rules? I wonder what triggers the alternate value?
Probably the Reckless Abandon rule??
That's what I was thinking, too, but I suppose 'Dancing on the Blade's Edge' could be a figuratively titled rule, rather than a literal one.
Co'tor Shas wrote:Hopefully is has a good tradoff. I don't want a "negative effect because it's fluffy" sort of rule.
I'm fine with it being fluffy if it also is a good trade off.
Also Corsair scatbikes are a thing. Welp I hear the cries of cheese.
angelofvengeance wrote: Also did anyone see in Buttery Commissar's pic, the rather badass looking Knight behind the Atropos with the Eye of Horus on it?
The Knights behind the Atropos (assuming we're talking about the same pic) are the Cerastuses that are already released.
I wonder if the rule will depend on how much of the army is lost. After all, corsairs are pirates, raiders, and general undesirables (for Eldar, at least). I could see them losing the will to fight if the target proves too tough. After all, they are still Craftworld Eldar, just ones that have either been exiled or left on their own, and they aren't crazy like their darker kin.
Part of me wants to start a Corsair Army because it seems like it is going to be the more zany version of both of them, if not necessarily more powerful.
Ok - this is going to be a long one, bear with me whilst I get all this out.
PRE-EVENT (08:00 - 10:00):
Managed to get to the building by ~08:10, and 6th in the queue. Literally I have never been as far forward in the queue as that, and it felt good until I realised that I had two hours to kill in a line by myself before the doors opened. The mood was good, most of us were veterans of multiple events so knew how this would work. Taking a quick temperature test of the people around and what they were excited for, it was mainly 1) Mastadon 2) Stormbird 3) Plastic 30k 4) New Knight but nothing really 40k related. The staff were on their game today - tickets were checked and leaflets distributed at 09:30, and seminar sign-ups followed shortly after (and crucially before the doors opened). Apparently they were expecting so much demand for the Citadel seminar that they were going to hold it twice with the same content, I shrugged - most people were talking ForgeWorld, and some were only gong to that seminar and ditching the Citadel one completely.
EVENT START (10:00):
Doors open promptly and we head inside. A couple of the people in front start to peruse the GW store at the top of the stairs, some other head towards the display cabinets, others towards the Golden Daemon display, and I was first in the ForgeWorld sales queue.
FIRST
I shouldn't be, but being to so many events, Games Days, Open Days, etc, to be the first person in the queue actually fills me with pride. "You made it Mike, you did it!" my inner monologue congratulated me. Yeah, I should really get out more...
I've already discussed the new Leviathan dread, that was a pleasant and unexpected surprise, which caught a lot of people out as it was not advertised. As I was queuing to pay they were scrambling to get codes, and the guy behind with two knights was overhearing stuff. He didn't know what they were, nor that they were available as the guy dealing with him at the sales desk didn't offer and there was no advertising for it. By the time he found out the queue was massive, no chance of getting one. Also most of the temporary tills they had set up were in Euros initially, so all purchases were being funneled through the BL and FW stores rather than in the sales area, but were quickly rectified.
DISPLAY CABINETS:
Display cabinets were in their usual space, behind Bugmans. ForgeWorld had one side, GW the other, and the short end was a White Dwarf table weirdly. The ForgeWorld cabinets were a bit spartan from what we've been treated to previously, the only new stuff were items that could be purchased on the day, the completed Ordinatus Ulator, and the CAD for the Ordinatus Sagitar (and some books with transfers and brass etch in). Mark Bedford was doing some painting in his new Dark Mechanicum colour scheme to a Triaros, alongside a cabinet with 3 Knights and a Thanatar already done in the bone colour. Surprisingly he was able to do the painting of the two Knights and the Thanatar part time over two weeks (e.g. over lunch breaks), and he may have convinced me to go and buy more Mech stuff from the ForgeWorld store.
The GW cabinets felt familiar. One set had a lot of the Adeptus Mechanicus in it, another had a lot of the new Tau models in (up to, but not beyond this weekends release). There were a couple of designers there, they had the demo pod, but there was nothing "new". Sure some people thought it was good to see the models, but these are the same exact models that we see on their website, and in White Dwarf, and no doubt shortly in Visions - just now we can see them behind a sheet of glass. It was difficult to get excited about anything. I did overhear peoples conversations about various things - but anything about the future was shot down quickly, so no news about anything beyond this weeks releases.
OTHER STUFF:
There were some gaming tables that were available, and being used as well. ForgeWorld had brought along their Titan game from the Open Day. One long board, two teams with a Warlord, Reaver and two Warhounds going against each other, with big foam dice for rolling on the floor. There were cabinets showcasing some Golden Daemon and Armies on Parade entries, and some really bizarre stuff. There was one shelf with a converted marine force that was Nurgle that felt very disturbing in some places, even including a converted Lord of Skulls nurgle-fied - brilliant, yet deeply disturbing in places.
Exhibition was freely open, and you could just wander around. Most of it was the same, although there was a new AoS large diorama early on that was impressive. The new Tau / AdMech board was near the end (after the Ultra / Khorne behemoth of a piece), and was just a bit meh. Yeah, it had loads of models, there was a Manta, some new terrain pieces and some clever construction, but only really holds your attention for 5 minutes. If it's the first time your there, it's not going to be the thing you remember straight away from the walkthrough, and may not even be the second or third thing either.
CITADEL DESIGN SEMINAR (12:30 - 13:30):
Presented by one of the GW rules designers and Laurie Goulding (representing the rules, and the narrative).
The first part of this Seminar came down to a run through of how they make the rules and narrative for a new model. The cynic in you starts to roll it's eyes when one of the opening sentences is along the lines of "We start when a new model is presented to Design Team, and we're told to come up with some rules and background for it". This sounds exaggerated, like someone from the miniatures side of the building produces a KV128 Stormsurge (built and painted to 'Eavy Metal standard) and says "We made this, make rules and background so we can sell it!" - but this is literally the example we were given! I know!
We were then told how they assign a rules designer and a writer to come up with everything from what it should be called, what it's rules are, some interesting info about it, etc. It really did feel like is was a " ... For Dummies" view of the process, and was really obvious - you assumed that this was how they did things, and they told you it was.
Q&A followed, but with a very clear edict from the start. There were to be no questions about future releases or direction, as they were not allowed to answer anything about that, and all questions had to be GW related. by now you could feel the mood in the room was really quite low, but there were some good questions raised that were answered in a fashion. There was one about the determination of whether a new unit is a Super-Heavy Walker vs a Gargantuan Creature, which had some nice anecdotal stories but came down to a "it depends" answer. Another good question was around determining points cost for a new model / unit, which again had some nice anecdotal stories but came down to a "think what a decent value is, playtest, adjust". Nothing really insightful, more confirming what we already knew.
FAQs was broached, specifically around when would we get a new batch as a lot are really old now. They let that one past even though technically it dealt with future operations, and again it felt like a wishy-washy answer. Are they going to go through a big batch of FAQs? - No. What they do do is look at more Erratas than FAQs (i.e. issues with mistakes rather than confusion) and seek to correct them where possible. This could result in changing out digital content where appropriate, or for physical copies of books may require pages being swapped out when a new run is ordered. The focus here was more around fixing mistakes rather than addressing points of confusion that an FAQ would cover. Therefore if your FAQ can be solved by a tightening of the rules, they'd prefer to do it that way. Personally, I think this is a cop-out, but this is from the same seminar that hammers it home that they don't want you discussing anything beyond this week, and miniatures come first with rules and story in 2nd and 3rd place.
Oh, and Laurie got special dispensation to reveal 4 new pieces of artwork for the next 4 HH novels. We saw two today (War Without End, and Pharos), and the other two will be shown tomorrow. Apparently the HH novel series is already set out, and they know how many there will be and what they will cover - I'm not sure what to make of that, or whether it's true, but it's what Laurie said so I have to give some degree accuracy. FYI - for those debating whether the jump pack marines in Pharos are Night Lords or Ultramarines, they're Night Lords. Also War Without End has a particularly 'Gangsta' Imperial Fist with his arms crossed over his chest.
Colour me disillusioned on this one.
FORGEWORLD SEMINAR (13:30 - 14:30):
This is the Seminar people were wanting to see, and I've covered off in pictures the bulk of what was previewed from the PowerPoint slide pack. Andy Hoare and Mark Bedford heading this one up.
The theme of the book are the Shadow Wars - don't be confused, these isn't the Shadow Crusade of Lorgar and Angron over Ultramar (a.k.a "Boyz on Tour - 007M31 to ?"), but is instead covering the events on the perimiter of the war and away from the Primarchs and other big characters and campaigns. it's battles where small forces on both sides are enagaging on multiple fronts, but isn't focussed in any one part of the galaxy. It's another Conquest book, but we knew that.
From a narrative perspective there's 5 campaigns that are covered, and will cover the forces detailed earlier (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, White Scars, Shatterred Legions, Blackshields and Knights Errant). The first three Legions will be covered off in the campaigns to give them some background and feel for them before they get their full book release, so it looks like White Scars will be facing off against the Alpha Legion. These aren't the notorious battles, but smaller incidents not directly in line with the bulk of their Legion forces. Shattered Legions aren't just the three surviving loyalist Legions from Istvvan V, but can be any groups of Legions. You can use the ruleset to represent Traitor forces looking to mop up loyalist remains from Istvvan V (as per Tybalt Mar from the Meduson novel), or for loyalist elements in traitor legions who have banded together in the fight for the Emperor, or even within Loyalist elements that weren't at Istvvan (say Imperium Secondus Legions) or even combining loyalist elements of traitor legions with loyalists, and vice-versa. This looks like it could be complicated rules wise, but also apparently gives some new ways of looking at army building and collecting.
Blackshields are starting to be fleshed out now. They're definately developed from simply being a collection of loyalists from traitor legions who have shed their colours, and are now being moved to a much more aggressive and combat-hungry group who have shed their Legion identity for any number of reasons. One example we were given to was that Blackshield units wouldn't be traditional Legion units, and for example wouldn't have Tactical squads because they no longer think in terms of Legion doctrine. A follow on in the Q&A also drives this a bit further, with a question around Iron Hands Legion rules for after Ferrus' death. Apparently the Iron Hands will have a new RoW for post Istvvan V which builds on the loss of their Primarch and how they develop into the Meduson led Legion they becomes, or alternatively moddelling them around the Blackshield rules to show the extent of their fall to madness and throwing everything to the wind for vengeance.
Knights Errant, apparently included so everyone would stop asking about when they / Garro would be included. They're not squads. There will be Garro and the Ultramarines Librarian (don't know the name, haven't listened to the audios) as special characters, and customisable HQ choice dubbed "build your own Knight Errant". Apparently you can give him skills and weapons / items to reflect your own character. Could be fun, but I know some will be disappointed around not having a full force of them.
For new units, most of the stuff in there we've already seen models for and just get rules for. For the Ordinatus, these are the Ordinatus Minor in the Mechanicum Red Book just given page space in the main book. The Conemptor-Cortus is apparently a lighter-weight Contemptor, quick on it's feet and more designed for combat and getting in close. Described at one point as 'Scrappy', which made me make the correlation that if a regular Contemptor was Scooby doo, the Cortus would be Scrappy doo - smaller and more aggressive. We'll see what the model is like.
Artwork - the Salamanders 'Disciple of the Flames' is apparently similar to that annoying character in Deathfire that constantly shouts "VULKAN LIVES!!!" the whole way through the book. Kind of a chaplain in feel (my interpretation) that preaches about the survival / denounces the death of Vulkan within the Legion. For the Dark Angels apparently Book VI will have three Wings documented: Iron Wing, Dread Wing (I think, anybody confirm?) and the precursor of the Raven Wing. I can't remember about the Blackshield Chymeriae, I think I was uploading pics at the time and may have missed it - although it is interesting to see it in MkV.
Horus Heresy Masterclass book is at the printers, and should be available soonish, maybe a couple of months. Also Retribution (hard not to call it Retalliation) has been finished and is about to be sent to the printers, with an ETA of the next Weekender for release (first weekend of February)
For the 40k fans on the forum jonesing for some 40k news from a 40k open day, the new Doom of Mymeara book is imminent, and the Eldar section is a complete re-write from an army list side. New rules, new units, new HQs, worked from the bottom up. We got some previews of Corsair jetbikes (upgrade kit) and new Wraithknight. Nothing about the Imperial side of the action (nothing on an absent Bran Redmaw either)
Delving into the Q&A:
◾Alpha Legion headhunters came back from production on Friday and are looking good, so should be release soonish.
◾Tyrant Siege Termies are a bit weird. Previously we heard they were near complete, but it looks like they've not had the go-ahead as people weren't happy with them and are being re-done. interestingly It think they said they were being re-purposed for use within the Blackshields, and so would have to be re-done from the ground-up rather than touch-up what they already had. Again, a second source on that would be appreciated.
◾Garro would be released probably before Retribution is released, but not sure when.
◾Questoris Knight list would be updated with the new Warden / Crusader plastic kit as well as the new Atrapos.
◾I'll try to see if anything jogs my memory, but these were the salient points I think.
OVERALL:
I left not long after the ForgeWorld Seminar. I got some pics of Garro in the cabinets, and headed out.
For a "40k Open" day, there wasn't a lot of openness around 40k. There was literally nothing to get you excited about anything, anything there was already seen in White Dwarf or on the main GW site (or from leaks on the web). There was minimal Black Library presences, which I though was odd considering there's a huge 40k related (32k maybe) book series taking over the entirity of next year. Lots of people wanted to know something more about the upcoming stuff, and it was all shut down quickly and effectively. Not a sniff of plastic 30k anywhere, even the Tau / Raven Guard campaign was barely there. The demo pods looked ok, although I spent an equivalent time talking to Mark Bedford about painting big stompy robots, but if you take away ForgeWorld (cabinets and sales), I'm not sure how much different it would be from a regular weekday in Warhammer World? gaming tables, sure, they'd be there to play on outside of the event. The Exhibition Hall is still open, and you can see all the current GW merchandise assembled and painted. Literally the only thing would be being able to meet and talk to people within the Design team, and a Seminar that confirmed a lot of what you already assumed. At least ForgeWorld got you excited about something and provided some decent talking points, without that I think I would be asking for my money back on the ticket price.
This isn't meant to be read as a GW rant, and please don't kill this thread based on this Mods, but I think GW are just taking the mickey on the clampdown of rumours and leaks. I didn't come out of that event inspired to do more 40k, I didn't come out of that event feeling I'd learnt something useful / interesting / positive about the behind-the-scenes of the GW / 40k machine. I feel like I've walked through a living White Dwarf experience, and I stopped buying that a long time ago. I think I would have been more impressed with a factory tour rather than a seminar, actually going around the inner workings of the production process, and if they conveniently left something out as a one-off allowed leak of an upcoming thing as a "oops, who left that there!" it would have been obvious, but would have given you something to talk about and look forward to. I just can't see what I got out of this event that I wouldn't have got out of by going to my local store (leaving ForgeWorld to one side), and going to Warhammer World when it isn't an Event day. This could have been something cool, and I feel it was a squandered opportunity.
And this is going to be the same thing tomorrow, with swapping out a couple of things (i.e. HH novel artwork), so I just hope nobody bought tickets for both events.
Anyway, I'll try and jog my memory on anything else. No Alan Bligh, so nothing around future timeline of Heresy books beyond Retribution, no Primarch discussion, nothing around Stormbird / Mastadon release.
[*]Book 6 is delayed. Expected in the new year, most likely February. [*]Horus Heresy Masterclass Book is ready for the printers, expected around February again. [*]Horus Heresy Weekender is broadly scheduled for early February (spot a pattern?) [*]As people have mentioned all Legions will have one new RoW. BA, DA, WS all having 2 RoW to make up for their lack so far. There will also be 6 other generic RoW`s. [*]There is planned to be a reworking of the CAL red book at "some point in the future" to bring in line all the extra Legion vehicles / troops that have (will) appear. [*]A re-look at the first four Legions elite troops (not Legion Special Rules) as some recognition that they are not as powerful as the later Legions (Justearin were mentioned specifically). [*]Some of this rebalancing will be through the new RoW`s - Emperors Children for example will have a RoW that makes Kakopohonie (sp) troops and grants them Relentless. [*]Other RoW will reflect tactics on the road to Terra. SoH RoW for example amongst other things grants all SoH weapons Master-Crafted on the first turn to reflect greater supply than other Legions due to Horus` influence. [*]New missions in Book 6 reflect "dirty wars" happening behind the lines. Legions with personal grudges settling them in the traditional manner; different objectives and VP`s earnt compared to normal missions. [*]Knights Errant can be customisable so you can create your own. However, any army with a Knights Errant has specific victory conditions that if the KE does not complete, your army may only draw! [*]They made a mistake in the Age of Darkness missions: the rule that if you have no models on the table at any point is an auto lose should be the same as the main rule book not as written in the mission brief - this will be amended to fit the main rules. [*]The Stormbird is still being worked on. Its huge and turned into a nightmare. [*]New Dark Mechanicum knight house in Book 6. The colour scheme is as per the new knight released on Friday and looks very pretty. May well have decals released in the future. [*]The new brass sets for the Iron Warriors and Night Lords have a stencil built in for the chevrons for the IW and the lightning and Nostroman writing for the NL. This will be a new feature of the brass sheets going forward. [*]There has already been lots of information about the Leviathan Siege dreadnaught. Suffice to say, its a dreadnaught with quad autocannon and twin volkite calivers - what`s not to like? [*]One primarch is being sculpted and another is in the demo process - no confirmation on which ones. [*]Magnus will not be larger than the other primarchs so that he fits into the range easier. Simon is having a nightmare thinking of how to sculpt with Magnus because of his eye and the horns on the armour. [*]There are currently no plans to develop the Solar Auxilia further than the moment other than to finish the range with the medicae and the special character. [*]There are also no plans to develop a Red Book for the combined Solar Auxilia, Warp Cult / Imperial Militia and Knight House but this wasn`t ruled out if the range expanded.
angelofvengeance wrote: Also did anyone see in Buttery Commissar's pic, the rather badass looking Knight behind the Atropos with the Eye of Horus on it?
The Knights behind the Atropos (assuming we're talking about the same pic) are the Cerastuses that are already released.
Yeah. I just liked the pose so I included it.
The Atropos was also in the FW store which is why you can see other releases.
I really like the new Dreadnought, looks awesome, although a part of me is still a bit miffed at the lack of a FW design for the Lucius or Furibundus pattern Dreadnoughts, as they have mentioned these throughout their publications (both HH and IA) several times now. The Furibundus especially would be good as that would complete the Deredeo/Contemptor/Furibundus triad from the old RT days.
I haven't seen this posted yet, but this is a new release on the FW store
I really like it. I think it might be my favorite knight variant so far.
I think you need one of the Horus Heresy books to use all of its rules though, even though you can use it in 40k.
Formosa wrote: Battle bunnies is wrong, we have only seen a single picture of a black shield, and it has 4 lines of text, none of which goes with anything battle bunnies are saying.
From the FW Open Day Amsterdam:
there're 'Black Shields' in the book (Andy Hoare and Alan Bligh created them for Deathwatch). Here they're Marines who left their Legion and fight just for themselves
Source was Arac from Tabletopwelt.de
In Deathwatch Blackshields are presented with more of a penitent slant, where their dishonored chapter's iconography is obliterated. With shattered legions and the general emphasis on guerrilla warfare that comes with that, I'd guess that the Blackshields are gonna be the loyalist survivors of the traitor legions.
Which goes directly with what I said initially, Blackshields are legionaries that have renounced there legion for whatever reason and removed the iconography, as per the info in hh book v I think, could be iv, I'm interested in seeing if they are indeed precursors to the deathwatch Blackshields.
Were those revealed today?
That's a slap in the face for everyone who bought tickets on the Saturday.
They already made folk pick between seeing today's Golden Daemon and not, and screwed up on the talk capacity.
Wouldn't mind so much if it'd been transparent to begin with.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Were those revealed today?
That's a slap in the face for everyone who bought tickets on the Saturday.
They already made folk pick between seeing today's Golden Daemon and not, and screwed up on the talk capacity.
Wouldn't mind so much if it'd been transparent to begin with.
I remember seeing the Eldar Wriathknight FW kits being posted yesterday so I don't think they revealed that today.
Now that's interesting. From the previous pics of the Oridinatus, we knew that two of the Volkite Culverin turrets were on the front half of the vehicle. I wasn't expecting the third to be on its butt.
Interesting comments posted by Theredknight of B&C, especially the bolded part. I suspected that myself, privately.
Sadly the Alan Bligh, emperor of 30k wasnt there, I enjoyed my chat last time too with him.
Andy hoare and mark Bedford I chatted to. And always do. Andy with the rules bits, and mark made me want to buy the sold out leviathan!
He is looking forward to reviving his blood Angels from 2/3 years ago soon he says.
They are really a good duo (apart from the sangy joke, I will take the Mick next time!)
It's quite evident that gw seems to have minimal to 0 respect for their fan base, it was almost an air of contempt or 'worship me' whereas the fw guys seem a good bunch to chat to and a laugh.
Not gw bashing here no, but a contrast in the two 'sides' of the coin.
A few chats let me conclude that fw staff and designers generally don't like 40k rules and the way it is run over there.
They all work together and develop rules and the model itself together rather than work separately on something they may not be interested in.
So the old gw and fw are the same isn't true, they may have top brass in charge, but allowed to run independently of each other, which is something I think works very well.
The primarchs development books were massive, and shows just how much background they go into developing models. Bl clips, pics or people chopping wood etc (ferrus pose) for an emperors son, I'd expect no less and makes me feel that the price tag is worth it completely.
I took notes throughout the day and jotted my memory. I wrote some bits I thought about how the 40k designers designed rules, but refrained from posting lol
So sorry about the qaulity of the photo. It's clearly been passed around a few times before it reached me- new stats for the Lynx.
To summarise ;
235 pts
5 hull points
Large blast D shot or 3 two linked D ordnance shots.
Heavy support so no longer a super heavy.
Something about being a flier - can't make out.
No more holofields.
Bronzefists42 wrote: I love Eldar Corsairs and have always mused on doing an army of them.
Out of curiosity is it fair to have a burning grudge against CW Eldar?
Oh yes, they're not known as outcasts for nothing. Plus, it used to be in the old Corsair list that you could take very limited Dark Eldar as part of your army that weren't allies...
zedmeister wrote: Interesting comments posted by Theredknight of B&C, especially the bolded part. I suspected that myself, privately.
A few chats let me conclude that fw staff and designers generally don't like 40k rules and the way it is run over there.
That doesn't surprise me - a lot of players don't like rules, either!
Yep. Here's some more from Theredknight - his impression on how the 40k codexes are dumped out.
From the seminar: They basically stick the model on the table, having never seen it before and get told 'make some rules for it' So they see a support thing on a leg and think 'that it'd be cool if it shoots all its weapons twice..oh and it'd be cool to take in units of 3. But they can't attack in combat if they have used them, but I did think about letting it use the stand as a cc attack. But no, that'd make them op, so we won't do that, their weakness is that a unit of terminator space marines could slaughter it/ them in combat'
Thats the actual mindset of them, I was sat there thinking, wow.. Do you even play this game? How would you even manage to get near those gun platforms, and survive the 5+hitting on over Watch and other things?
They openly admitted that they don't plan codex updates in conjunction with others in mind or what the codex itself needs, so an army could do with assault units, no, they will do as they please.
Codex now are a 'design team' effort. And the likes of one designer doing an army he really liked (crons were used as an example here) are mostly gone. However those old favourites are still involved (sigh for some) If they are not interested in the army it was lack lustre (tyranids example) if they loved the army they would be powerful (crons) To be honest, most of the newer codex have been on a similar over the top rules together. Strength d all over the place makes it hard to enjoy playing against them, we've all been there. It's why we shift to 30k now,
They admit that they leave it open to abuse because 'you can't stop everyone wanting to power game' I think nowadays it is a lot more common than say,4 years ago, with all the d shenanigans and invisible Death Star units and assaulting from deep strike things like sky hammer. But it is all 'cool' to do.
The GW strategy for playtesting and rules creation just looks horrible. Like what I would do if I was designing rules for a kitbashed model when I was about 13.
The leviathan to me looks more like a contemptor crossed with a helbrute. The curved armor plates seem more reminiscent of an unmutated helbrute rather than the standard loyalist washing machine dread. The Relic of Darkness special rule kind of suggests that the two might be related as well.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: The leviathan to me looks more like a contemptor crossed with a helbrute. The curved armor plates seem more reminiscent of an unmutated helbrute rather than the standard loyalist washing machine dread. The Relic of Darkness special rule kind of suggests that the two might be related as well.
Agreed. That whole bit of fluff for their unique system of interfacing the marine into it and psychological consequences sure seems to point to it.
Haighus wrote: The GW strategy for playtesting and rules creation just looks horrible. Like what I would do if I was designing rules for a kitbashed model when I was about 13.
Considering how garbage their rules are, is anyone surprised?
Bronzefists42 wrote: I love Eldar Corsairs and have always mused on doing an army of them.
Out of curiosity is it fair to have a burning grudge against CW Eldar?
It's not only fair, it's expected. They have a ton of overpowered units and rules, and pay far less points than they should for them.
Unless you are an Eldar player, in which case you are claiming that the Eldar are merely the rules accurately reflecting the fluff and that eldar deserve to be better than everyone else.
Of course Dark Eldar hate Eldar and corsairs with a burning passion, since the Corsair rules are what Dark Eldar would have been if they had had half the effort and OP-ness that went into the craftworlder book.
Bronzefists42 wrote: I love Eldar Corsairs and have always mused on doing an army of them.
Out of curiosity is it fair to have a burning grudge against CW Eldar?
It's not only fair, it's expected. They have a ton of overpowered units and rules, and pay far less points than they should for them.
Unless you are an Eldar player, in which case you are claiming that the Eldar are merely the rules accurately reflecting the fluff and that eldar deserve to be better than everyone else.
Of course Dark Eldar hate Eldar and corsairs with a burning passion, since the Corsair rules are what Dark Eldar would have been if they had had half the effort and OP-ness that went into the craftworlder book.
I hate people who "hate" armies but I've honestly never had a fun game against CW Eldar.
I've had plenty with DE but if Eldar need to be punished with a millenium of "the Tyranid Treatment."
But how do Corsairs stack up compared to CW Eldar?
Apparently the new Corsairs: - Can run 6" after shooting an enemy unit within 12" - Test to regroup at a lower leadership value - Have 30pt (compared to the 27pt CW one) Scatbikes (and a new thing, Dissonance bikes, A unit of bikes with 24" S5 AP4 Heavy 1 Pinning guns that get +1S -1AP for every additional successful To Hit roll the unit makes for the same price as Corsair Scatbikes); and - The Warphunter (a 185pt vehicle with a gun that fires D3+1 small barrage blasts that are S D-1 like D-scythes.
That's what I've seen so far around the interwebs.
zedmeister wrote: Interesting comments posted by Theredknight of B&C, especially the bolded part. I suspected that myself, privately.
A few chats let me conclude that fw staff and designers generally don't like 40k rules and the way it is run over there.
That doesn't surprise me - a lot of players don't like rules, either!
Yep. Here's some more from Theredknight - his impression on how the 40k codexes are dumped out.
From the seminar:
They basically stick the model on the table, having never seen it before and get told 'make some rules for it'
So they see a support thing on a leg and think 'that it'd be cool if it shoots all its weapons twice..oh and it'd be cool to take in units of 3. But they can't attack in combat if they have used them, but I did think about letting it use the stand as a cc attack. But no, that'd make them op, so we won't do that, their weakness is that a unit of terminator space marines could slaughter it/ them in combat'
Thats the actual mindset of them, I was sat there thinking, wow.. Do you even play this game? How would you even manage to get near those gun platforms, and survive the 5+hitting on over Watch and other things?
They openly admitted that they don't plan codex updates in conjunction with others in mind or what the codex itself needs, so an army could do with assault units, no, they will do as they please.
Codex now are a 'design team' effort. And the likes of one designer doing an army he really liked (crons were used as an example here) are mostly gone. However those old favourites are still involved (sigh for some)
If they are not interested in the army it was lack lustre (tyranids example) if they loved the army they would be powerful (crons)
To be honest, most of the newer codex have been on a similar over the top rules together. Strength d all over the place makes it hard to enjoy playing against them, we've all been there. It's why we shift to 30k now,
They admit that they leave it open to abuse because 'you can't stop everyone wanting to power game' I think nowadays it is a lot more common than say,4 years ago, with all the d shenanigans and invisible Death Star units and assaulting from deep strike things like sky hammer. But it is all 'cool' to do.
Wowww... At least they're honest about it, I guess?
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Ok, what the gak! How do they take an already potent titan and double down on removing it's one weakness?
I... I don't know if I can even.
Because it pays 0 points for it. After all, that's how it works under your system.
Golly gee perigrin, I didn't realise my system had updated to show the current power level of this monstrosity. How about instead of snide comments you let me figure out how to balance the nonsensical rules they shoehorned onto this robot? I am in no way going to attempt to condone this, and I have shown many times in my vdr where they have gone wrong with their math.
Cool down guys. Let's just all cry together at how dissapointing this is- for both eldar & non eldar players because after all, people are gonna feel bummed if they fight this and cheap if they bring it.
I feel like the warp hunter & Lynx are just as bad!
Wow, the Revenant did not need a buff. I hope that titan rule becomes standard on all titans, thats a copy/paste of the rules the Warlord titan has for being hit in close combat
Yeah, that is a SERIOUS kick in the pills. Take away the primary weapons categorization, then add a rule to limit the potency of the walker in a way that only works if it has primary weapons.
This thing should be a solid 1500 points at this juncture. Minimum. What was I thinking in hoping it was going to get a slight nerf or stay the same...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wilson wrote: Cool down guys. Let's just all cry together at how dissapointing this is- for both eldar & non eldar players because after all, people are gonna feel bummed if they fight this and cheap if they bring it.
I feel like the warp hunter & Lynx are just as bad!
At least the warphunter and lynx can be one shotted/forced to jink. The warphunter is also supposedly at the same -1 to the destroyer table, so it can't put out the dreaded 6. It's comparable to a mobile vaul's wrath unit that is easier to mitigate/kill.
The lynx is the only non-superheavy/fortification in the game carrying a titan level weapon. That's insane, but I think it can at least be killed effectively. I don't remember it keeping the titan holofields...
For a whopping 900 points, that seems totally fair to me. Considering that you can field more than 3 Wraithknights for just one Revenant Titan, this is about right in terms of performance & power.
Mutter, mutther... Now where's my credit card so I can buy one of these?
JohnHwangDD wrote: For a whopping 900 points, that seems totally fair to me. Considering that you can field more than 3 Wraithknights for just one Revenant Titan, this is about right in terms of performance & power.
Mutter, mutther... Now where's my credit card so I can buy one of these?
That assumes that the wraithknight is fairly costed which it isn't according to most folks.
The sonic lance is now appropriate for apoc compared to the pulsars, and the mobility of run and gun isn't that great as it already was moving fast enough. It is still way too strong (just like warhounds) for normal 40k though.
Ashiraya wrote:Read the wording on the Wraith Titan rule.
Its weapons do not have the Primary Weapon type, meaning that it may run 12" every turn regardless of weapons fired.
So the titan now can fire at full effect AND JSJ! Just what we needed!
It's actually faster than most flyers without any real downsides or exploitable vulnerabilities. Would have been nice if holo-fields were vulnerable to blast/template weapons... or at least couldn't be used in melee.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:Ok, what the gak! How do they take an already potent titan and double down on removing it's one weakness?
JohnHwangDD wrote: For a whopping 900 points, that seems totally fair to me. Considering that you can field more than 3 Wraithknights for just one Revenant Titan, this is about right in terms of performance & power.
Mutter, mutther... Now where's my credit card so I can buy one of these?
That assumes that the wraithknight is fairly costed which it isn't according to most folks.
The WK is fairly costed in the context of any Formation-based army: Necrons, Daemonkin, Space Marines, other Eldar...
That means the WK is fairly-costed the the vast majority of folks. it's just the handful of armies that haven't gotten updates (Chaos Marines, Imperial Guard) that might complain.
JohnHwangDD wrote: For a whopping 900 points, that seems totally fair to me. Considering that you can field more than 3 Wraithknights for just one Revenant Titan, this is about right in terms of performance & power.
Mutter, mutther... Now where's my credit card so I can buy one of these?
That assumes that the wraithknight is fairly costed which it isn't according to most folks.
The WK is fairly costed in the context of any Formation-based army: Necrons, Daemonkin, Space Marines, other Eldar...
That means the WK is fairly-costed the the vast majority of folks. it's just the handful of armies that haven't gotten updates (Chaos Marines, Imperial Guard) that might complain.
The needle has moved. Deal with it.
A wraithknight is horribly undercosted for the durability it brings to the table. It should be 100 points more, almost on the nose when compared to other toughness 8 3+ monsters (heirodules, gargantuan squigoth, and the wraithlord)
Given that your costing system has been demonstrated not to work, I don't think you should be making any claims about what any pricing should or should not be. Particularly in the post-Formations metagame.
I don't see how any objective, fair-minded person could consider the Wraithknight "fairly costed" It's probably the the worst offenders in terms of costing, relative to other big stompy things, including post-2015 Formations-based 40k. I mean, 1000 points of Imperial Knights versus 1000 points of Wraithknights. Who would you bet on?
Also, it's not just Imperial Guard and CSM that don't have cool formations. Add Tyranid, Ork, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Space Wolves... none of them have access to the new toys. But even so, just because there are good formations doesn't make WK too good for its price.
Now, I'm not complaining. I really don't care, because it's easy enough to fix in my games, but I'm just saying... objectively speaking, moist people can easily see that WK is just plain freakin' awesome. The only thing that nerfs Wraithknights in the 2015 meta is ITC, which limits you to 0-1.
The WK is fairly costed in the context of SMs getting free Razorbacks for every squad, Decurion, and so forth.
Given that WKs are designed as hard counters to other big stopy things, you obviously take the WKs in that particular matchup.
I'm aware that it's not just IG and CSM, just that they are the most vocal about always being subpar. "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!".
The presence of good formations is what makes the WK fair. Assume a full SM Company on the board with all of their freebies. Is mono-WK a good counter to those 100 SMs and their bonuses? Probably not. The S(D) weapons are overkill, and they only hit 2 things per turn. Blowing up "free" Razorbacks and killing a few <15 pts Tac Marines is severely underwhelming.
Even better, make it a horde of Ork Boyz, and see how the WK does with those S(D) guns.
Which gets back to my earlier point about Eldar as spoilers and balancers. If the opponent is gearing up with (multiple) Imperial Knight Titans, great. The IKT player does well in the metagame right until he runs into an Eldar player who has the WKs to totally wreck his day. And that's the point.
What is really happening is that we have a lot of non-Eldar players who don't like Eldar WKs nuking their "crutch" units with an anti-meta army. Always been like this, and it's always been fair.
JohnHwangDD wrote: For a whopping 900 points, that seems totally fair to me. Considering that you can field more than 3 Wraithknights for just one Revenant Titan, this is about right in terms of performance & power.
Mutter, mutther... Now where's my credit card so I can buy one of these?
Clearly unbiased reasoning from the guy with 9500 points of eldar
Anyways, has there been any news other than that new Diorama, of the IG vs tau imperial armor book?
Balanced Wraithknight Anyone that says those two words in that sequence has no clue about unit pricing, it is as simple as that. It's possibly the single most under-priced model in 40K.
The Revenant got mega-buffed, it can run 12" after moving 36" while still firing four D Large Blasts in the same turn. Oh and now it is hit on 5s and 6s in combat and it has a potent anti-air gun.
WTF Forge World? Seriously. WTF!?
Caederes wrote: Balanced Wraithknight Anyone that says those two words in that sequence has no clue about unit pricing, it is as simple as that. It's possibly the single most under-priced model in 40K.
The Revenant got mega-buffed, it can run 12" after moving 36" while still firing four D Large Blasts in the same turn. Oh and now it is hit on 5s and 6s in combat and it has a potent anti-air gun.
WTF Forge World? Seriously. WTF!?
I think the new wraithknight rules are FW trolling GW - anyone with a brain can see it needs extra points added or a bit of a nerf, but, no! you're even more screwed!
"Steal the name of one of our HQ choices, huh? Okay with rules creep, huh?!? Fine - we'll show you imbalance ya Please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n
I'm not keen on the new leviathan dreadnought - again, FW trolling GW?
photo from 'battlebunnies'
It is to the contemptor, what the 'devcent' is to spehs muhreens - especially the feet.
I'm not a fan of the fat suit bomb squad contemptor. Ironically, I wouldn't comment on it if FW hadn't made a dozen dreadnoughts over the past few years (largely just cosmetic variants). The relic contemptor, weaponized M&M doredo, possessed word bearer/chaos contemptor, and this mashup would have been sufficient but we got the original contemptor (that I bought right away... and then regretted when they came out with the "relic" a few months later) plus another half dozen legion variants.
That wraithknight is pretty sweet. Although I am curious, aside from the ability to go into ongoing reserves why would anyone use its pack? It can moves 12 inches anyways as a jump MC. why risk scattering and the like?
JohnHwangDD wrote: Maybe it's a typo and the Warp Spider WK can actually teleport 12' (FEET), not 12" (inches)?
great for tournament play as you jump onto the board of the "no one can beat that guy" and help trounce him then jump back to your table at the end . I've heard of people using the old basilisk range similarly (judges really didn't like the other guy anyway), and was wondering if the deathrocket the IG has have done the same.
Yeah, we used to do that basilisk thing in Apoc, but awesome to fire onto other game boards in tournaments. Brings new meaning to the phrase "team tactics"...
JohnHwangDD wrote: Yeah, we used to do that basilisk thing in Apoc, but awesome to fire onto other game boards in tournaments. Brings new meaning to the phrase "team tactics"...
It was more of a local tournament, no standings or real prizes. The guy with the basilisks was playing a friend who was also willing to ignore a turn of firing to watch the other guy whine.
Yeah, it was badly handled. Also, the publicity made a big thing about black library and there were no talks on that, nor was it particularly clear what was going on with it.
If you've never seen WHW, it would be worth the trip. But being a store and having a few figures you can only buy on the day is not an event.
Yep, true, I think I was expecting too much having not been for a couple of years.
One of the chaps I was with wrote to FW to let them know he was not happy having made the journey and not managed to get into a seminar, they wrote back pretty quickly apologising and gave him a full refund.
angelofvengeance wrote: @jonolikespie: Errr... they are releasing a Horus Heresy masterclass book fairly soon in fact.
I... don't know how to feel about this. I loved the last one, but a lot of the recent paint jobs are... not something I'd ever expect to pay money for a tutorial of.
Really dig them and would have loved to get those, but I'll wait till I have some money to spare.
Sadly underwhelmed by the RG decal sheet. Up to now the only one I don't like. Which is sad, as I wanted to start a RG army, beeing the founding chapter of the Space Sharks.
Ach, Christmas is about to come...so maybe I'll convince myself to get me the Mor dethan.
angelofvengeance wrote: @jonolikespie: Errr... they are releasing a Horus Heresy masterclass book fairly soon in fact.
I... don't know how to feel about this. I loved the last one, but a lot of the recent paint jobs are... not something I'd ever expect to pay money for a tutorial of.
I hear you.
A blind monkey with epilepsy could do a better job on those edge highlights.
Seriously, L2Paint, n00b!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote: Will these get 40k rules or just for Horus Heresy?
Something went wrong with those bases in photoshop
I think the detail they added to make the street details on the base just made the bases a little taller, and they chose to paint the sides of the basing material black instead of like the basing itself.
Yeah, I think default bolters actually have that too fluffwise as long as they have a scope attached. It's pretty cool.
Like, you could shoot the Marine in the eyes, and as long as that doesn't kill him (a possible scenario) he could just see with his gun instead. Surprise!
Can't be. Even in the description it says that they are the best of the best from those who were with their Primarch long before "coming of the Emperor". If they get implants when they are already veteran Space Marines there is a chance the surgery will not go well. On the other hand, there is plenty of Space Marines who are full of prosthetics.
The older recon squad is a much better looking unit IMO. The posing is much more realistic. Pitty as I far prefer the beaky helmet. 50 notes is a little steep.
Would love to paint up a raven guard in a flat matt black, does anyone know of someone producing such a the by for models?
You could buy the mk4 recon squad AND the Raven guard upgrade pack (with beakie helmets), and it would only cost you a pound more than the new squad. Plus you'd have loads of cool bits left over...
Would love to paint up a raven guard in a flat matt black, does anyone know of someone producing such a the by for models?
Tamiya do a good Matt Black
(Note: their acrylics have alcohol in the media so behave differently from normal acrylics, and if your normal acrylics are not fully dry can end up acting a bit like a paint stripper because of it so practice on something unimportant first)
alternatively just use your normal paint spray a later of Testors Dullcote varnish over the figure
(top tip: if you're finding it tricky to get hold of search online for magicians roughing spray as it's sold for that too)
Scale75 have the most matte acrylics on the market afaik. Give their black a go. I find Reaper's Pure Black does the job when I want a very matte finish.
I'm pretty sure those Mor Deythan sniper rifles are based on the Godwyn-Ultima pattern bolter- look at the magazine, that doesn't match any of the other bolter types as far as I can tell. More confirmation that Godwyn-Ultimas exist at least during the Heresy
Haighus wrote: I'm pretty sure those Mor Deythan sniper rifles are based on the Godwyn-Ultima pattern bolter- look at the magazine, that doesn't match any of the other bolter types as far as I can tell. More confirmation that Godwyn-Ultimas exist at least during the Heresy
Flip through book I: betrayal again.
Almost every tactical marine is wielding a Godwyn pattern bolter.
Haighus wrote: I'm pretty sure those Mor Deythan sniper rifles are based on the Godwyn-Ultima pattern bolter- look at the magazine, that doesn't match any of the other bolter types as far as I can tell. More confirmation that Godwyn-Ultimas exist at least during the Heresy
Flip through book I: betrayal again.
Almost every tactical marine is wielding a Godwyn pattern bolter.
Well, there is the same Deathguard Marine that appears in about 20 different page backgrounds who is wielding one (and reappears in Book 4), but I don't consider that to be an especially good source, so I have been keeping my eye out for better sources. Book 2 had a Salamanders Ultima pattern combi-flamer, which would have been good enough for me if it wasn't being used by the Salamanders, who are known for their use of rare and experimental equipment (see link in signature for full breakdown). Now we have a third source, in another Legion, which for me is effectively confirmation that it is at least in limited use in the Legions.
Yup, I just checked some other guys links about buying scouts and now they are 1 quid more expensive then they were listed.
And,afaik, Warhound weapons were 33 per piece and now they are 40? So a whole set costs 21 extra quid, which is smallish set of weathering powders.
SirDonlad wrote: I think the new wraithknight rules are FW trolling GW - anyone with a brain can see it needs extra points added or a bit of a nerf, but, no! you're even more screwed!
"Steal the name of one of our HQ choices, huh? Okay with rules creep, huh?!? Fine - we'll show you imbalance ya Please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n
I'm not keen on the new leviathan dreadnought - again, FW trolling GW?
photo from 'battlebunnies'
It is to the contemptor, what the 'devcent' is to spehs muhreens - especially the feet.
Eldar rules leaks courtesy of Over My Cold Coffee:
Spoiler:
Interesting that the Lynx is no longer a superheavy, but a 5HP flyer! Warp hunter back to being its old, brutal self... Firestorm also much improved and nasty now - 6 shot, rending, twinlinked, skyfire, interceptor with laser web (no jinks for zooming flyers or fast skimmers!)
At least they don't have Holo Fields anymore, I wonder if the Craftworld Lynx will become the same or not.
Well, the Warp Hunter has the Dispersed rule - roles of 6 on the d-weapon table count as 5 instead. That's one way of toning it down. Pulsar and all the rest, not so much...
Still, nice army and I've been mean to expand my tiny collection of Corsairs - hope they re-release the Firestorm. That thing looks nasty
I"m a bit late but does anyone else find it odd that the Tau vs Admech display from FW has no casualties besides the riptide in the titans hand? I couldn't figure out what was wrong until it hit me that there are swarms of combatants and no fallen bodies
Red Corsair wrote: I"m a bit late but does anyone else find it odd that the Tau vs Admech display from FW has no casualties besides the riptide in the titans hand? I couldn't figure out what was wrong until it hit me that there are swarms of combatants and no fallen bodies
Maybe it is just a paintball scrimmage?
If you look at the picture showing the whole battle, in the middle towards the bottom (directly below the reaver titan) I am sure there is a burnt out knight chassis... just the legs and a chargrilled hull.
Not quite the littered bodies your are after but quite cool!
Spoiler:
Just noticed the knights chainsword arm and armour surrounding it as well!
Yea I think the board is stunning but that is definitely something funny about it. I remember the table last year with Ultras fighting Word bearers and it had bodies littered all over the place.
Hmm, there are some bodies, but not many. I remember someone mentioning that some of the models on it are painted to a really quick, poor standard too, so I reckon it is just WIP and will be properly completed soon. Unless the esoteric weapons the Adeptus Mechanicus are using leave no corpses...
Red Corsair wrote: Yea I think the board is stunning but that is definitely something funny about it. I remember the table last year with Ultras fighting Word bearers and it had bodies littered all over the place.
Just a funny observation.
There's a huge difference between bolters and infantry weaponry compared to Titans going after infantry.
Eldar rules leaks courtesy of Over My Cold Coffee:
Spoiler:
Interesting that the Lynx is no longer a superheavy, but a 5HP flyer!
Warp hunter back to being its old, brutal self...
Firestorm also much improved and nasty now - 6 shot, rending, twinlinked, skyfire, interceptor with laser web (no jinks for zooming flyers or fast skimmers!)
Where is this "over my cold coffee"? Are there any more pics? Also, I like the lynx as a 5hp standard vehicle, I find the alternate fire mode interesting for the pulsar. Since this is the first unit with one that can jink, they felt the need to give it a way to still fire. No such love for the sonic lance it seems... Honestly wish they hadn't, dropping that much firepower would have allowed people to think twice about jinking. With the alternate fire mode, not so much of a choice.
Think Storm Troopers with power axes instead of rayguns. If you make them Household Retinue (an elites choice) they gain +1 WS and Preferred Enemy (Infantry), meaning in assaults they'll hit at WS 5 and eat marines like no tomorrow.
that I even have to ask, but that this point, I have to ask.
Gibaz, you exist! 
Anyone that says those two words in that sequence has no clue about unit pricing, it is as simple as that. It's possibly the single most under-priced model in 
photo from 'battlebunnies'
