Think Storm Troopers with power axes instead of rayguns. If you make them Household Retinue (an elites choice) they gain +1 WS and Preferred Enemy (Infantry), meaning in assaults they'll hit at WS 5 and eat marines like no tomorrow.
When people complain about Imperial Knights being just super heavy walkers... This or a whole squad of Inquisition crusaders is exactly the sort of unit I pictured Knight house holds having as their infantry and household guards. If only GW or FW would give us something that made our opponents take less issue with our army.
Think Storm Troopers with power axes instead of rayguns. If you make them Household Retinue (an elites choice) they gain +1 WS and Preferred Enemy (Infantry), meaning in assaults they'll hit at WS 5 and eat marines like no tomorrow.
When people complain about Imperial Knights being just super heavy walkers... This or a whole squad of Inquisition crusaders is exactly the sort of unit I pictured Knight house holds having as their infantry and household guards. If only GW or FW would give us something that made our opponents take less issue with our army.
Well, they have produced a few Knight pilot models recently, perhaps some household men-at-arms are not that far away?
I very much doubt they'll do that. But they can easily be represented by Solar Auxilia or Imperial Militia allies, the latter in particular fit the idea of a feudal world ruled by a Knightly Order perfectly, you can even give them blackpowder weapons.
Think Storm Troopers with power axes instead of rayguns. If you make them Household Retinue (an elites choice) they gain +1 WS and Preferred Enemy (Infantry), meaning in assaults they'll hit at WS 5 and eat marines like no tomorrow.
When people complain about Imperial Knights being just super heavy walkers... This or a whole squad of Inquisition crusaders is exactly the sort of unit I pictured Knight house holds having as their infantry and household guards. If only GW or FW would give us something that made our opponents take less issue with our army.
Well, they have produced a few Knight pilot models recently, perhaps some household men-at-arms are not that far away?
Those are just one more thing that gets me excited at the prospect of something more than Knights for Knight armies. The Knight Pilots really nail a sci-fi knight aesthetic that is distinct from Space Marines.
If FWdidn’t do something to tie in to the new box, I’d be shocked. With minimal effort they could probably get a new influx of 30k players.
I know I’m on the cusp, the only thing holding me back is that I’d need to pick up the big book 5, as I’m not interested in an istavaan legion. And I’m far more stingy on money spent on rules then models.
Moopy wrote:Will this be the 6th book? TOO CRYPTIC!!!
No, tomorrow is when the plastic heresy set goes on pre-order, it'll be for that. Book 6 isn't coming til early next year.
Is Betrayal at Calth not GW prime, though?
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure FW have done little adverts like that for GW stuff in the past too. And they might have products to release that tie in with it as people have mentioned.
Almost definitely nothing to do with book 6 though as that's not out til next year.
the teaser says "Betrayal is just the beginning" ... so FW could jump on the GW release by adding something of interest for HH players ... from a marketing standpoint I would do it.
Fireball wrote: the teaser says "Betrayal is just the beginning" ... so FW could jump on the GW release by adding something of interest for HH players ... from a marketing standpoint I would do it.
Occam's. Razor.
It could be about a new "Betrayal" range of HH themed clothing, but what's more likely?
Something as simple as a double sided sheet of paper with some forgeworld HH items (gal vorbak, characters, a few primarchs, one or two vehicles) would be a great tie in and sales generator for the next few weeks at GW stores. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening since each store apparently operates in a shark tank and every dollar spent anywhere else on the company's project is one dollar closer to that store closing and/or the staff being fired.
miniholic wrote: So what about special army accessories bundles for HH armies?
Helmets + torsos + shoulder pads = HH bundle to accompany the launch?
I could see that, and it would be neat...but I've just about resolved to NOT do the FW shoulder pads on my plastic Alpha Legion, and use their fantastic new decal sheet for that instead.
Januine wrote: ooooh - I could do with a new mug. I'll take an Alpha legion one - in that shimmery blue>green jazz they got going.....with a hyrdra handle
These bundles are perfect for everyone in Australia and New Zealand, since Betrayal at Calth is included in the bundle at the UK price, and not at a conversion of our prices.
Thank you Forge World!
Essentially here in Australian we're getting Betrayal at Calth at 33% off (using the cost of the new armour bundles). What a steal!
This exceptional bundle represents an entire Legiones Astartes company with their supporting units and war machines. The models included allow you to dive straight into the cataclysmic warfare of the Horus Heresy.
Included are one hundred and fourteen plastic models and seven complete resin kits;
• Ninety Legion Tactical Space Marines in MK4 armour, with a huge selection of weapons and custom features, including nine each of heavy bolters, missile launchers, flamers, melta-guns and plasma guns, which could be used to build these Space Marines as specialist Legion Tactical Support or Legion Heavy Support Squads.
• Fifteen Cataphractii Terminators with a variety of close combat and ranged weapon options.
• A full talon of three Contemptor Dreadnoughts, each armed with a Close Combat Fist with inbuilt combi-bolter and a choice of multi-melta or Kheres assault cannon.
• Three Praetors in Cataphractii Terminator Armour.
• Three Legion Chaplains.
• A Techmarine in Mk IV Armour.
• A Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer.
• A Typhon Heavy Siege Tank.
• A Legion Sicaran Battle Tank.
• A Storm Eagle Gunship.
• A Spartan Assault Tank.
• An Achilles-Alpha pattern Land Raider.
You will also receive a 6ft tall poster featuring a Space Marine from the Legion of your choice from the list below, specially printed for you. After you have placed your order please contact the Forge World Customer Service Team with your order number and your choice of Legion from: Alpha Legion, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Night Lords, Raven Guard, Salamanders, Sons of Horus, Ultramarines, Word Bearers, World Eaters.
Also included are three copies of the full Horus Heresy: Betrayal at Calth game, each including four double-sided boards, beautifully printed on thick card stock; a forty-eight page book, featuring an introduction to the battle on Calth and comprehensive rules and scenarios for playing the game; forty-two command and reference cards, used to introduce effects and events into the game; twelve dice and an array of markers used in-game.
All at merely $1,741.69 CAD If only I win the lottery tonight...
Januine wrote: ooooh - I could do with a new mug. I'll take an Alpha legion one - in that shimmery blue>green jazz they got going.....with a hyrdra handle
Actually this is what its like. Its a plain white ceramic mug, that slowly turns your Tea into coffee while you are waiting for it to cool down enough to drink. When you spit out the coffee you see a small Hydra head at the bottom of the mug.
Januine wrote: ooooh - I could do with a new mug. I'll take an Alpha legion one - in that shimmery blue>green jazz they got going.....with a hyrdra handle
Actually this is what its like. Its a plain white ceramic mug, that slowly turns your Tea into coffee while you are waiting for it to cool down enough to drink. When you spit out the coffee you see a small Hydra head at the bottom of the mug.
I appreciate that honest and pure LOL you gave me. Have an exalt!
This exceptional bundle represents an entire Legiones Astartes company with their supporting units and war machines. The models included allow you to dive straight into the cataclysmic warfare of the Horus Heresy.
You will also receive a 6ft tall poster featuring a Space Marine from the Legion of your choice from the list below, specially printed for you. After you have placed your order please contact the Forge World Customer Service Team with your order number and your choice of Legion from: Alpha Legion, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Night Lords, Raven Guard, Salamanders, Sons of Horus, Ultramarines, Word Bearers, World Eaters.
All at merely $1,741.69 CAD If only I win the lottery tonight...
They would sell the crap out of those posters if they offered them for regular sale.
I appreciate that they probably had to rush them out, but the painting and composition of most of those example models in the bundles is below average. Not to mention that many of them do not follow the established 30k aesthetics for their Legion. Lurid green Salamanders? Bleurgh.
Those pictures also reveal just how chunky the plastic MKIV legs look and how undynamic the stock poses are. Do not want.
Honestly I think those FW bundles are a bit excessive. I'd probably only buy a couple of those head/torso packs to scatter among squads/represent veterans/sergeants. What I will be buying are heavy weapon packs and flamers (starting a Deathguard army.)
sockwithaticket wrote: I appreciate that they probably had to rush them out, but the painting and composition of most of those example models in the bundles is below average. Not to mention that many of them do not follow the established 30k aesthetics for their Legion. Lurid green Salamanders? Bleurgh.
Those pictures also reveal just how chunky the plastic MKIV legs look and how undynamic the stock poses are. Do not want.
They've gone with a gunmetal colourscheme on the Iron Hands that is way lighter than their usual black/near black.
The Sons of Horus are the only ones that look legitimately good.
Others, like the Word Bearers and Ultramarines have the right scheme, it's just horribly executed. The white on the Ultras and any of the bare heads
I think the poorly-executed schemes can probably be chalked up to lack of time - if the bundles hadn't been pre-released at the same time as the box game people might have ordered the box where they might otherwise have wanted a bundle.
I seriously don't understand some of the changes in colour schemes though - Iron Hands, Night Lords and Salamanders all look way lighter than usual.
Wondering if these are going to be the 'new standard' colour scheme for those legions a la the change in Alpha Legion colour scheme a while back (although the AL does have the excuse of always having several colour schemes in play at any given time).
One possible reason for the color difference could be, because GW is now making 30K into a core game, they're forced to use GW only paints for these models. Historically, FW has used whatever paints they want for their models, but that may no longer be the case.
Tannhauser42 wrote: One possible reason for the color difference could be, because GW is now making 30K into a core game, they're forced to use GW only paints for these models. Historically, FW has used whatever paints they want for their models, but that may no longer be the case.
That's thought might have some mileage in it, but doesn't really explain the Iron Hands new duds.
Probably just a difference in painters, as well as possibly even photography. I wouldn't be surprised if all of these new bundle marines were painted by the GW guys (with possible painting videos to come) rather than the FW guys. And because they're tied to a GW core product, they may have had the usual photoshop treatment that the GW model pics get, making things brighter than they might normally be, etc. We'll know more as more stuff comes out, I guess.
They will have known this release date for months and the sprues of the plastic MKIV marines leaked earlier in the year said 2014. They've been around a while, as have an awful lot of the upgrades used.
The only reason there would have needed to be a rush on 160 figures is incompetence.
It's going to be a core product, possibly bigger than AOS, the sloppiness of presentation is indefensible. My boss would have my job for an equivalent dropping of the proverbial ball.
sockwithaticket wrote: I appreciate that they probably had to rush them out, but the painting and composition of most of those example models in the bundles is below average. Not to mention that many of them do not follow the established 30k aesthetics for their Legion. Lurid green Salamanders? Bleurgh.
They weren't rushed out. They were painted by volunteers as the workload of painting that many sets in all the Legion colours was too much for the in-house FW guys to take with their current workload.
That's why the Emperor's Children ones look terrible. +
Quick question folks, has there been a leak of the Corsair Prince from the new IA 11? Got a whole bunch of bits but just waiting for the perfect build to become obvious. I think I remember the basics, like the Brace of Pistols, and relics from all Eldar forms, but I can't remember well enough to commit to glue.
mercury14 on warseer wrote:
Anyway, Corsair Princes/Princesses all have their own dark little obsessions and *may* take one of the following paths at no cost:
A) Seeker of Forbidden Pleasures (aka The Drug Lord) - The Corsair Prince gains the Corsair Combat Drugs special rule and any unit in the same detachment (infantry/JP infantry, jetbike) may get Corsair Combat Drugs for +15 points per unit.
Corsair Combat Drugs (aka the "those Dark Eldar drugs just make me sleepy" drug list).
1) +1A
2) +1S
3) +1I
4) +1T
5) +1 WS 6) Roll for two drugs (!!!)
*waits to sober up*
B) Traveler of Forgotten Paths - The Webway Prince. Because walking is for chumps. The Prince gets a Multi-phase key generator and any other character in the detachment can get one too. So wtf is this thing?
Multiphase Key Generator - the model gets Deep Strike, something about carving the webway. In addition it may be activated during any shooting phase instead of shooting to open up a webway gate within 3" of the model. All your reserves can enter through it except not vehicles. If any of your guys are falling back within 3" of it, they can go in it and enter ongoing reserves.
C) Collector of Ancient Treasures - This is how the Prince can get a relic from CWE, DE, or Harlequins. Mask of Secrets maybe. Also any other character in the detachment can slap Master-Crafted on their weapon for 10 pts. It doesn't say it has to be a CC weapon.
D) Reaper of the Outer Dark - For the Prince that's really loves killing. The Prince gets Rampage and any unit in the detachment can get Rage for free. But whenever they're within 8" they *must* charge. If they killed a unit with shooting and have another enemy within 8" they get to (must) charge it.
E) Wielder of Profane Powers - This Prince picked up something that should have been left unfound. Gains +1 psychic ML, meaning they can be ML2. Must pick at least one Maelefic Demonology power and other psykers in the detachment get access to Demonology. When they peril, replace the 6 (remember they have their own perils chart as I posted) with:
Lust for Dark Power: The Prince went too far down the dark path (d'oh!). For the rest of the game at the beginning of every psychic phase the Prince must attempt a Malefic power using at least 2WC. If for some reason they can't, they get pinned automatically.
F) Survivor of Endless Darkness - For the geriatric prince 3000 years old who's basically a ghoul going around sipping elixers to postpone death. This prince is insane and possibly sort of like a mummy with makeup. Gains It Will Not Die but if he fails it, he crumples to the ground coughing up dust (auto-pinned).
Any other units in the detachment can get FnP for +10 points
sockwithaticket wrote: They will have known this release date for months and the sprues of the plastic MKIV marines leaked earlier in the year said 2014. They've been around a while, as have an awful lot of the upgrades used.
The only reason there would have needed to be a rush on 160 figures is incompetence.
It's going to be a core product, possibly bigger than AOS, the sloppiness of presentation is indefensible. My boss would have my job for an equivalent dropping of the proverbial ball.
Given the obsession with secrecy GW has I doubt the production date matters. As mentioned by H.B.M.C they would have needed volunteers (potential leak paths) given the sheer volume of models and as such would have left it quite late to paint so as to maintain that iron clad veil of secrecy!
sockwithaticket wrote: I appreciate that they probably had to rush them out, but the painting and composition of most of those example models in the bundles is below average. Not to mention that many of them do not follow the established 30k aesthetics for their Legion. Lurid green Salamanders? Bleurgh.
They weren't rushed out. They were painted by volunteers as the workload of painting that many sets in all the Legion colours was too much for the in-house FW guys to take with their current workload.
That's why the Emperor's Children ones look terrible. +
In your opinion. I for one like the EC colour scheme and would like their recipes!
sockwithaticket wrote: I appreciate that they probably had to rush them out, but the painting and composition of most of those example models in the bundles is below average. Not to mention that many of them do not follow the established 30k aesthetics for their Legion. Lurid green Salamanders? Bleurgh.
They weren't rushed out. They were painted by volunteers as the workload of painting that many sets in all the Legion colours was too much for the in-house FW guys to take with their current workload.
That's why the Emperor's Children ones look terrible. +
In your opinion. I for one like the EC colour scheme and would like their recipes!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So would it be appropriate to email them suggestions on how to improve the Leviathan Dreadnought yet?
Apart from lack of posability with the arms and the fact it's not been released, what's the problem?!
The fact it only has 4 attacks total, and loses one each time you add a gun.
As it stands, for the points, it SHOULD have at the very least 4 attacks base like the lesser Dreads, and therefore 5 attacks with both Claws.
Only clicked through it without sound, but this looks like a really useful video!
Though I didn't understand what he was doing at the end with the pinning. Have to watch it with sound when I get home from work^^
Hanskrampf wrote: Only clicked through it without sound, but this looks like a really useful video!
Though I didn't understand what he was doing at the end with the pinning. Have to watch it with sound when I get home from work^^
He didn't need to pin the Spartan, but he did want to show off how to pin a heavy part.
zedmeister wrote: Model and rules are brutal. Can be taken in squadrons of 1-3 in games of 30k!
I'm just slightly depressed that my plan to use a Deredeo with Atomantic Pavise to give the Leviathans a 3++ was scuppered upon actually reading the Pavise's rules(only applies to Infantry ).
Dem Storm Cannons tho
The price is slightly less appealing of course.
EDIT: The CC version will be utterly monstrous as well, assuming you can get the charge off; 2x Heavy Flamer and 2x Meltagun blasts, followed by 2 HoW attacks and 5 S10 AP2 claw attacks at I5 with Severing Cut or Armourbane to taste.. Mama mia.
Go 30k. You can legally run a list with a total number of 12 Contemptors and 9 Leviathans (or 6 Leviathans and 1 Deredeo!) assuming you have the points (and £'s) to run it...
Go 30k. You can legally run a list with a total number of 12 Contemptors and 9 Leviathans (or 6 Leviathans and 1 Deredeo!) assuming you have the points (and £'s) to run it...
But then I can't smash them into my nephew's Tau...
Go 30k. You can legally run a list with a total number of 12 Contemptors and 9 Leviathans (or 6 Leviathans and 1 Deredeo!) assuming you have the points (and £'s) to run it...
But then I can't smash them into my nephew's Tau...
Why not? It'd be weird if he lets you go unbound but doesn't let you use a 30k list
Go 30k. You can legally run a list with a total number of 12 Contemptors and 9 Leviathans (or 6 Leviathans and 1 Deredeo!) assuming you have the points (and £'s) to run it...
Or Clan Raukaan Iron Hands - up to 18 Dreads all with IWND
I'm happy this is a heavy support cc dread, I can now replace my predators with 2 of these for my world eaters, 2 contemptors, 2 leviathan and lots of infantry!
That WorldEater dread has the wrong numbering as well.
WE is the 12th legion. Fists are the 7th (VII).
Unless that number is meant to denote something else.
Zywus wrote: That WorldEater dread has the wrong numbering as well.
WE is the 12th legion. Fists are the 7th (VII).
Unless that number is meant to denote something else.
Company designation on the right shoulder pad. Like this guy:
aka_mythos wrote: I'm just waiting until we see the Cortus Dreadnought.
What's that?
Publicly it was mentioned at the most recent open day at the FW presentation. It is a "scrappy" dreadnought, smaller and more close combat oriented and will show up in the next big book.
The Rumor: I've only seen one person say this but on an another forum, from someone who claims to have spoken with one of the designers at the event, is that It's suppose to be predominantly Ravenguard and is effectively a dreadnought designed for orbital drop without a drop pod, with some degree of jump pack use.
Speculatively: it sounds like it jumps out of thunderhawks or stormravens from high altitude and lands by means of that jump pack as it seems like a big departure for it to be a true drop-pod-less drop. This seems to be a throwback to the original Rogue Trader dreadnought rules that allowed a jump pack on dreadnoughts.
I always thought those siege drills would look excellent as siege flails if there would be chains connecting the fingers to the round drill tips. Just imagine a giant robot striding forward with energy dripping off of flails in its hands. The leviathan size might be the correct size for the mod if i ever got the money together to build a 30K force.
Theophony wrote: I always thought those siege drills would look excellent as siege flails if there would be chains connecting the fingers to the round drill tips. Just imagine a giant robot striding forward with energy dripping off of flails in its hands. The leviathan size might be the correct size for the mod if i ever got the money together to build a 30K force.
For a chaos conversion, that would be awesome. I think it’s a little far from what would be sensible/practical/possible for a loyalist.
Can the traitors still take those scourge/whip things on their dreads? If so, that would be those, writ large.
I love the new Lev Dread. Spent way too much over the last few weeks though (found the 'Oldhammer' page on FB :( ).
Will have to wait for the new year as it's too expensive to put on my Xmas list!!
aka_mythos wrote: I'm just waiting until we see the Cortus Dreadnought.
What's that?
Publicly it was mentioned at the most recent open day at the FW presentation. It is a "scrappy" dreadnought, smaller and more close combat oriented and will show up in the next big book.
The Rumor: I've only seen one person say this but on an another forum, from someone who claims to have spoken with one of the designers at the event, is that It's supposed to be predominantly Ravenguard and is effectively a dreadnought designed for orbital drop without a drop pod, with some degree of jump pack use.
Speculatively: it sounds like it jumps out of thunderhawks or stormravens from high altitude and lands by means of that jump pack as it seems like a big departure for it to be a true drop-pod-less drop. This seems to be a throwback to the original Rogue Trader dreadnought rules that allowed a jump pack on dreadnoughts.
While I love the Leviathan, the Cortus sounds awesome! Dreads jump packing everywhere would be terrifying...
This dreadnought looks like a centurion suit for a contemptor.
Just horrible. First the boat on legs (deredeo), now this. FW should have just stopped with the contemptor. At least you can field them next to standard dreads and it still looks fine. Now the standard dreads are completely out-sized by this walking suitcase.
Kirasu wrote: More expensive than a wraithknight.. I dont understand how they can believe that any dread is worth 285 pts base? It should be priced at 160.
I don't know if i agree with 160, but 285 is ridiculous. It's not even a superheavy.
Slow, expensive, can be 1 shot by an non-D weapon.
Add a pod to get him into range for..well anything, and ceramite in the hopes 1 marine/tau/etc with a melta doesn't have it as easy to pop him, and you might as well just get an Imperial Knight.
Confusing.
Maybe he is good for 30k, I honestly don't know.
I think he'd be ok if he was a superheavy with those stats at 285 though.
Kirasu wrote: More expensive than a wraithknight.. I dont understand how they can believe that any dread is worth 285 pts base? It should be priced at 160.
I don't know if i agree with 160, but 285 is ridiculous. It's not even a superheavy.
Slow, expensive, can be 1 shot by an non-D weapon.
Add a pod to get him into range for..well anything, and ceramite in the hopes 1 marine/tau/etc with a melta doesn't have it as easy to pop him, and you might as well just get an Imperial Knight.
Confusing.
Maybe he is good for 30k, I honestly don't know.
I think he'd be ok if he was a superheavy with those stats at 285 though.
In 30k this guy is a vertitable train. Those Grav-flux bombards annihilate any infantry in the open and are the bane of vehicles with 3 hp and he can 1 turn kill a Mhara gul Derpnaught.
13/13/12 with 3 hp, 4++ all the time, thats pretty boss, his weapons are very very nasty and will bypass EW most of the time due to multiple wounds, this means it can reliably take on almost any MC or even GMC, if it survives being hit, it will likely kill a wraithknight, not that likely but it can happen lol.
Kirasu wrote: More expensive than a wraithknight.. I dont understand how they can believe that any dread is worth 285 pts base? It should be priced at 160.
I don't know if i agree with 160, but 285 is ridiculous. It's not even a superheavy.
Slow, expensive, can be 1 shot by an non-D weapon.
Add a pod to get him into range for..well anything, and ceramite in the hopes 1 marine/tau/etc with a melta doesn't have it as easy to pop him, and you might as well just get an Imperial Knight.
Confusing.
Maybe he is good for 30k, I honestly don't know.
I think he'd be ok if he was a superheavy with those stats at 285 though.
In 30k this guy is a vertitable train. Those Grav-flux bombards annihilate any infantry in the open and are the bane of vehicles with 3 hp and he can 1 turn kill a Mhara gul Derpnaught.
What do you mean "in the open"? It allows no cover saves. Those things will be downright brutal on infantry who don't have invulnerable saves, and pretty hard on even those that do.
Formosa wrote: 13/13/12 with 3 hp, 4++ all the time, thats pretty boss, his weapons are very very nasty and will bypass EW most of the time due to multiple wounds, this means it can reliably take on almost any MC or even GMC, if it survives being hit, it will likely kill a wraithknight, not that likely but it can happen lol.
If he gets the charge he has I5, which means he can kill the WK at the same time, in theory.
If he gets the charge he can kill an imperial knight before the knight even swings.
He has good "pieces" but his "whole" isn't good for the points, he really needed 12 inch movement.
A 6 inch movement vehicle doesn't do much against current shooting.
Formosa wrote: 13/13/12 with 3 hp, 4++ all the time, thats pretty boss, his weapons are very very nasty and will bypass EW most of the time due to multiple wounds, this means it can reliably take on almost any MC or even GMC, if it survives being hit, it will likely kill a wraithknight, not that likely but it can happen lol.
4 hull points. If he's gonna cost as much as a land raider, he better be as tough
He's actually tougher than a Land Raider. 4++ > AV14
Remember, the rules ARE experimental and the design team actually listens to its customers. I sent an email talking about how they need CT and the 4 attacks base instead of losing them for each range weapon added, for example. Tell them what you think they need. Telling us only generates discussion, not results.
Remember, the rules ARE experimental and the design team actually listens to its customers. I sent an email talking about how they need CT and the 4 attacks base instead of losing them for each range weapon added, for example. Tell them what you think they need. Telling us only generates discussion, not results.
I would crank up the cost to 310 base and give him Enchanced Ferrmantic Rites or change his front and side armour to 14. I'd also give him the ability to take a demolisher cannon but that'd be crazy
Remember, the rules ARE experimental and the design team actually listens to its customers. I sent an email talking about how they need CT and the 4 attacks base instead of losing them for each range weapon added, for example. Tell them what you think they need. Telling us only generates discussion, not results.
I disagree with chapter tactics but I'm heavily biased, as my ones would not affect it at all, bs2 overwatch... Meh, white scars hit and run is nice but that's about it.
Didn't realize it had 4 hp, even better lol, and I agree, 4 attacks base like all other dreads, contemptor should too, I'd also like them to make a list of Legion rules that affect dreads too, as chapter ones get it now, so should Legion, again biased, rage for my dreads would be ace.
Remember, the rules ARE experimental and the design team actually listens to its customers. I sent an email talking about how they need CT and the 4 attacks base instead of losing them for each range weapon added, for example. Tell them what you think they need. Telling us only generates discussion, not results.
I disagree with chapter tactics but I'm heavily biased, as my ones would not affect it at all, bs2 overwatch... Meh, white scars hit and run is nice but that's about it.
Didn't realize it had 4 hp, even better lol, and I agree, 4 attacks base like all other dreads, contemptor should too, I'd also like them to make a list of Legion rules that affect dreads too, as chapter ones get it now, so should Legion, again biased, rage for my dreads would be ace.
Alpha Legion dreads be like "I can infiltrate, have tank hunter, counter attack...
Remember, the rules ARE experimental and the design team actually listens to its customers. I sent an email talking about how they need CT and the 4 attacks base instead of losing them for each range weapon added, for example. Tell them what you think they need. Telling us only generates discussion, not results.
I disagree with chapter tactics but I'm heavily biased, as my ones would not affect it at all, bs2 overwatch... Meh, white scars hit and run is nice but that's about it.
Didn't realize it had 4 hp, even better lol, and I agree, 4 attacks base like all other dreads, contemptor should too, I'd also like them to make a list of Legion rules that affect dreads too, as chapter ones get it now, so should Legion, again biased, rage for my dreads would be ace.
From a balance standpoint, CT helps Dreads a lot. Not all of them do stuff. But the ones that do include White Scars, Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Black Templars, Carcharodons, Red Hunters, Minotaurs, and Star Phantoms. Dark Angels and Space Wolves benefit a little too.
BS2 Overwatch isn't bad. Combine with the two Heavy Flamers and the average two hits from the Cannon and a lot of what's charging is hurt.
The possibilities of what it could do makes me giddy.
Remember, the rules ARE experimental and the design team actually listens to its customers. I sent an email talking about how they need CT and the 4 attacks base instead of losing them for each range weapon added, for example. Tell them what you think they need. Telling us only generates discussion, not results.
I disagree with chapter tactics but I'm heavily biased, as my ones would not affect it at all, bs2 overwatch... Meh, white scars hit and run is nice but that's about it.
Didn't realize it had 4 hp, even better lol, and I agree, 4 attacks base like all other dreads, contemptor should too, I'd also like them to make a list of Legion rules that affect dreads too, as chapter ones get it now, so should Legion, again biased, rage for my dreads would be ace.
From a balance standpoint, CT helps Dreads a lot. Not all of them do stuff. But the ones that do include White Scars, Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Black Templars, Carcharodons, Red Hunters, Minotaurs, and Star Phantoms. Dark Angels and Space Wolves benefit a little too.
BS2 Overwatch isn't bad. Combine with the two Heavy Flamers and the average two hits from the Cannon and a lot of what's charging is hurt.
The possibilities of what it could do makes me giddy.
Formosa wrote: Yep, walkers specifically can overwatch, and super heavy walkers specifically cannot... Normally.
Well, there you go. Theoretically, a Dark Angels Leviathan with Grim Resolve would land 4 S5 AP4 and 2 S7 AP3 and .33 S8 AP1 hits. That takes care of a lot of things.
Formosa wrote: Yep, walkers specifically can overwatch, and super heavy walkers specifically cannot... Normally.
Well, there you go. Theoretically, a Dark Angels Leviathan with Grim Resolve would land 4 S5 AP4 and 2 S7 AP3 and .33 S8 AP1 hits. That takes care of a lot of things.
If your Leviathan is getting charged, you aren't playing him right but if he is, id hope youd double up on his storm cannons and teach the enemy a lesson
What on earth would even want to charge a leviathan, those claws will pretty most things big apart and tarpitting him will be hard if he's just taken one cannon he'll blast you in overwatch
He needs to lose like 60 points though, i'd totally play him then
GAdvance wrote: What on earth would even want to charge a leviathan, those claws will pretty most things big apart and tarpitting him will be hard if he's just taken one cannon he'll blast you in overwatch
He needs to lose like 60 points though, i'd totally play him then
a huge blob of orks, gaunts or conscripts. The leviathan's weakness is long range and being tarpitted (but you'll have to try super damn hard to do this)
I'm gonna take 2 for primarch hunting, this thing is built to kill big creatures, super heavies and primarchs, it also minces units, for its price tag as an all round unit I think it's worth it, gonna proxy a couple and test it Monday.
Formosa wrote: I'm gonna take 2 for primarch hunting, this thing is built to kill big creatures, super heavies and primarchs, it also minces units, for its price tag as an all round unit I think it's worth it, gonna proxy a couple and test it Monday.
dont run one against Perturabo with "After Istavaan"
S10 Ap2 with Tank Hunter and Wrecker will put pain on this guy
4 attacks, 2/3 hit, likely pen with 2 ish, will likely save 1, could kill me but 2 engaging peturabo will probably wound him enough for angry Ron to take down, obviously this is just off the top of My head, math hammer might prove me wrong, also can't remember it petty has 4/5 attacks lol
if the leviathan get's a charge it's likely to be an exceedingly close fight, he'll likely do 2-4 wounds a turn. Two of them AND Angron is excessive, 2 will do the job, the big test is going to be how you actually get them over their, seems like walking it is underwhelming
GAdvance wrote: if the leviathan get's a charge it's likely to be an exceedingly close fight, he'll likely do 2-4 wounds a turn. Two of them AND Angron is excessive, 2 will do the job, the big test is going to be how you actually get them over their, seems like walking it is underwhelming
What are you trying to kill with 2 Leviathans and Angron? Titans got you down?
GAdvance wrote: guy was talking about using them to deal with perturabo, i just did some quick math is all, i'm not in for titanhammer... not my cuppa personally
2 Leviathans should kill him if we are in a vacuum
Zuul wrote: I imagine half the time if somebody is trying to charge a leviathan they'll be doing it through a wall of phosphex template dangerous terrain.
Half the time, you already got tabled, said "YOLO!" and charged the "I Can't Believe it's not a Land Raider"
And you only get Phosphor dischargers in 30k. In 40k, you get hunter killers. Just when you needed 3 infinite range missiles
aka_mythos wrote: I'm just waiting until we see the Cortus Dreadnought.
What's that?
Publicly it was mentioned at the most recent open day at the FW presentation. It is a "scrappy" dreadnought, smaller and more close combat oriented and will show up in the next big book.
The Rumor: I've only seen one person say this but on an another forum, from someone who claims to have spoken with one of the designers at the event, is that It's suppose to be predominantly Ravenguard and is effectively a dreadnought designed for orbital drop without a drop pod, with some degree of jump pack use.
Speculatively: it sounds like it jumps out of thunderhawks or stormravens from high altitude and lands by means of that jump pack as it seems like a big departure for it to be a true drop-pod-less drop. This seems to be a throwback to the original Rogue Trader dreadnought rules that allowed a jump pack on dreadnoughts.
A Jump walker? Very interesting to think about to say the least. Do you thunk it would get lower Armor that a regular dread to lighten it up for jump pack use?
Tactical_Spam wrote: Those Grav-flux bombards annihilate any infantry in the open and are the bane of vehicles with 3 hp and he can 1 turn kill a Mhara gul Derpnaught.
The grav bombard is strong against infantry, but terrible against vehicles. It only has 3D6 to penetrate, which averages 10.5, so you'll rarely get to make any use of the double hull point rule. Two times zero is still zero. They'll be the bane of Rhinos... half the time. And an expensive joke the other half.
The storm cannon has the same average roll of 10.5, but it gets 6 shots, +33% range, rerolls to penetrate, and half the points cost.
Tactical_Spam wrote: Those Grav-flux bombards annihilate any infantry in the open and are the bane of vehicles with 3 hp and he can 1 turn kill a Mhara gul Derpnaught.
The grav bombard is strong against infantry, but terrible against vehicles. It only has 3D6 to penetrate, which averages 10.5, so you'll rarely get to make any use of the double hull point rule. Two times zero is still zero. They'll be the bane of Rhinos... half the time. And an expensive joke the other half.
The storm cannon has the same average roll of 10.5, but it gets 6 shots, +33% range, rerolls to penetrate, and half the points cost.
a big upside is that the bombard inflicts 2 hp, not one
I suspect this thing will be great against Eldar Jetbike spam with Wraithknight. The Wraithknight has about a 27% chance to get a destroyer weapon shot though to do damage and all the scat bikes can't hurt this thing. I'm giving it the storm cannon and claws so it can take down armor 12 or less at 24" and threaten multi wound creatures even with eternal warrior.
I think the ability to get around eternal warrior makes this thing highly unique. Yes it should be about 50-60pts cheaper. That would put it in line with what its abilities are, but there is no doubting it is a threat to some seriously competitive units out there.
I ran mine in a 7 player game yesterday. I want more! Ran with siege drill and claw and no looking back for me. The 4++ made it super survivable and it shrugged off two turns of being shot with no hull points lost. Dakka stompa couldn't scratch it
I really wish that FW would do some actual breaching units. Is it too much to ask to get either a whirlwind or vindicator variant with some MICLIC tubs?
I like the leviathan but it doesn't really say siege to me. Maybe it should just be leviathan class dreadnought. Outside of fist mounted melta it really doesn't have siege weapons.
So 2x melta shots before charging in with 5 strength 10 attacks at I5 isn't going to feth up any building!
I'd happily run that against any fortified position esp with the front armour 14, 4HP & a 4+ invun.
bubber wrote: So 2x melta shots before charging in with 5 strength 10 attacks at I5 isn't going to feth up any building!
I'd happily run that against any fortified position esp with the front armour 14, 4HP & a 4+ invun.
I think what he means is that punching a building to death is a bit meta... well rule wise he can do it, it doesn't mean it makes sense.
bubber wrote: So 2x melta shots before charging in with 5 strength 10 attacks at I5 isn't going to feth up any building!
I'd happily run that against any fortified position esp with the front armour 14, 4HP & a 4+ invun.
Just a quick correction, hes only AV 13. Which is significant because it means a melta gun can pen him even with ceramite, and has a 50% chance to immobilize or outright kill it in one hit.
bubber wrote: So 2x melta shots before charging in with 5 strength 10 attacks at I5 isn't going to feth up any building!
I'd happily run that against any fortified position esp with the front armour 14, 4HP & a 4+ invun.
Just a quick correction, hes only AV 13. Which is significant because it means a melta gun can pen him even with ceramite, and has a 50% chance to immobilize or outright kill it in one hit.
But first you have a 1/3 chance of missing and only a 17% chance of a pen which then has a 50% chance of pinging off its shields. If you get into short range and haven't been smashed to death first I'd be amazed especially as it doesn't tend to run around without friends which your theory hammer fails to take into account...
Like I said before I was shot at by 6 deff koptas twice, deth kannon from stompa twice, 2 lots of 3d6 s9 shots from gun batteries from the stompa yesterday and I took not a single hull point of damage. Screw the maths!
bubber wrote: So 2x melta shots before charging in with 5 strength 10 attacks at I5 isn't going to feth up any building!
I'd happily run that against any fortified position esp with the front armour 14, 4HP & a 4+ invun.
Just a quick correction, hes only AV 13. Which is significant because it means a melta gun can pen him even with ceramite, and has a 50% chance to immobilize or outright kill it in one hit.
But first you have a 1/3 chance of missing and only a 17% chance of a pen which then has a 50% chance of pinging off its shields. If you get into short range and haven't been smashed to death first I'd be amazed especially as it doesn't tend to run around without friends which your theory hammer fails to take into account...
Like I said before I was shot at by 6 deff koptas twice, deth kannon from stompa twice, 2 lots of 3d6 s9 shots from gun batteries from the stompa yesterday and I took not a single hull point of damage. Screw the maths!
I'm sure it did fine in your game. Three weeks ago I had a base Dreadnought(AV 12, SW version so only 2 attacks) kill an entire missileside team, and a riptide(made it into assault and made each flee). He survived the entire game and only lost 1 HP. I won't for a second say that is the norm for a base Dread though.
Of course he will have friends to protect him, just like the other team isn't shooting him with a single melta gun at BS4. I was just stating his weakness, which is significant since he's 1) slow and 2) VERY expensive, 305 with just ceramite.
I think the model looks amazing, my favorite looking dread.
BrotherGecko wrote: I really wish that FW would do some actual breaching units. Is it too much to ask to get either a whirlwind or vindicator variant with some MICLIC tubs?
I like the leviathan but it doesn't really say siege to me. Maybe it should just be leviathan class dreadnought. Outside of fist mounted melta it really doesn't have siege weapons.
I think what he means is that punching a building to death is a bit meta... well rule wise he can do it, it doesn't mean it makes sense.
Something a bit more... reasonable would be nice.
Isn't what Legion Vindicators, Medusas and Basilisks are for?
That is what they do but isn't my point. The leviathan siege dreadnought has nothing that says siege other than a silly drill arm and/or melta guns. Which melta doesn't say seige either, its just a repurposed cutting tool.
The dread lacks all the tools to get to the defensive obstacle.
I was wishing that FW would create all the cool stuff that comes with seige warfare (modern versions). Like lane/obstacle clearing weapons (MICLICs, MOPPEMs..etc.) Actual breaching squads instead dudes with shields (which look awesome either way).
The vindicater is only one that is an actual seige breaker or fortification breacher.
Considering that Astartes have almost nothing when it comes to logistical/medical equipment/vehicles except for the Thunderhawk Transporter (which is also no longer available from FW) or any Techmarine specialized repair equipment/vehicles I think you are asking way too much.
Considering that Astartes have almost nothing when it comes to logistical/medical equipment/vehicles except for the Thunderhawk Transporter (which is also no longer available from FW) or any Techmarine specialized repair equipment/vehicles I think you are asking way too much.
Haha, I'm aware that it is a lot to ask. I just want to build a Iron Warrior breaching element capable of actual breaching lol.
You bring up a funny point though, Guilliman is supposed to be a master at logistics yet looks like a civilian taking a stab at what a military force would look like....
Considering that Astartes have almost nothing when it comes to logistical/medical equipment/vehicles except for the Thunderhawk Transporter (which is also no longer available from FW) or any Techmarine specialized repair equipment/vehicles I think you are asking way too much.
Yeah if FW wants to make the Astartes seem more workable IRL they need to add a few variants:
-Rhino armored recovery vehicle
-Rhino apothecary ambulance
-Rhino engineering vehicle
-Land Raider ARV/Engineering for those super-heavy tanks
would be a good start. Simply releasing the kits to add onto a standard Rhino would be the simplest method, ala Chaos Rhino
Considering that Astartes have almost nothing when it comes to logistical/medical equipment/vehicles except for the Thunderhawk Transporter (which is also no longer available from FW) or any Techmarine specialized repair equipment/vehicles I think you are asking way too much.
Wow, that's gone too? Seems like they're really slashing down their catalogue. I've noticed the medusa (original), vanheim basilisk, barracuda and aquila lander are gone now too.
Considering that Astartes have almost nothing when it comes to logistical/medical equipment/vehicles except for the Thunderhawk Transporter (which is also no longer available from FW) or any Techmarine specialized repair equipment/vehicles I think you are asking way too much.
Haha, I'm aware that it is a lot to ask. I just want to build a Iron Warrior breaching element capable of actual breaching lol.
You bring up a funny point though, Guilliman is supposed to be a master at logistics yet looks like a civilian taking a stab at what a military force would look like....
Probably because the whole universe was created and written by civilians taking a stab at what a military force would look like.
ImAGeek wrote: Probably because the whole universe was created and written by civilians taking a stab at what a military force would look like.
Or because GW/FW know that non-combat support vehicles that rarely, if ever, see battlefield use are not going to sell well. Give FW some credit here, IA1 has fluff for IG support vehicles (cargo transports, a towing/recovery vehicle, etc) and the example regimental FOC includes those support elements. I'm pretty sure they understand that the logistics side of war exists, it's just something that mostly happens "off-camera".
ImAGeek wrote: Probably because the whole universe was created and written by civilians taking a stab at what a military force would look like.
Or because GW/FW know that non-combat support vehicles that rarely, if ever, see battlefield use are not going to sell well. Give FW some credit here, IA1 has fluff for IG support vehicles (cargo transports, a towing/recovery vehicle, etc) and the example regimental FOC includes those support elements. I'm pretty sure they understand that the logistics side of war exists, it's just something that mostly happens "off-camera".
And that too. I didn't mean it in a derogatory manner, just that the people who made the games are civilians so it's not going to be a perfect war simulation.
Zuul wrote: Wow, that's gone too? Seems like they're really slashing down their catalogue. I've noticed the medusa (original), vanheim basilisk, barracuda and aquila lander are gone now too.
If I am not mistaken, that Aquila Lander has been gone for two years now. There is a lot stuff missing but also the new things added.
BrotherGecko wrote:I really wish that FW would do some actual breaching units. Is it too much to ask to get either a whirlwind or vindicator variant with some MICLIC tubs?
I like the leviathan but it doesn't really say siege to me. Maybe it should just be leviathan class dreadnought. Outside of fist mounted melta it really doesn't have siege weapons.
To be fair, it also has the flamers (a weapon type heavily used in taking fortifications in WWII) and the Grav bombard is excellent at removing infantry from a defensive position with Ignores cover!
I think what he means is that punching a building to death is a bit meta... well rule wise he can do it, it doesn't mean it makes sense.
Something a bit more... reasonable would be nice.
Isn't what Legion Vindicators, Medusas and Basilisks are for?
That is what they do but isn't my point. The leviathan siege dreadnought has nothing that says siege other than a silly drill arm and/or melta guns. Which melta doesn't say seige either, its just a repurposed cutting tool.
The dread lacks all the tools to get to the defensive obstacle.
I was wishing that FW would create all the cool stuff that comes with seige warfare (modern versions). Like lane/obstacle clearing weapons (MICLICs, MOPPEMs..etc.) Actual breaching squads instead dudes with shields (which look awesome either way).
The vindicater is only one that is an actual seige breaker or fortification breacher.
I want a dayum ABV.
A proper AVRE would be awesome, I've considered making an IG army based on Hobbart's funnies in WWII. Would be fairly easy to represent with the IG tanks too. If Space Marine vehicles had access to the IG mine plough, that would go some way to making them more like combat engineer vehicles. At the moment, most Space Marine siege stuff is either heavy artillery or intended to kick the door down and/or burn the occupants alive within their bunker. I'm not quite sure how devices like explosive mine-clearing lines would translate into rules though, all barricades, obstacles, minefields etc under a 12" beam are removed on a 4+ or something?
I think the Breacher squads are not intended for Siege warfare so much as void combat along ship corridors and through bulkheads in room-to-room clearance. They have a sort of role in leading the forlorn hope to break a line too but I think their design fits mainly with combat in very close confines. They bring their barricades with them.
I also think Melta does say siege on infantry, as it makes sense for infantry to be trying to cut their way into a building and take out the occupants, but doesn't scale up very sensibly as a vehicle siege weapon.
Considering that Astartes have almost nothing when it comes to logistical/medical equipment/vehicles except for the Thunderhawk Transporter (which is also no longer available from FW) or any Techmarine specialized repair equipment/vehicles I think you are asking way too much.
Yeah if FW wants to make the Astartes seem more workable IRL they need to add a few variants:
-Rhino armored recovery vehicle
-Rhino apothecary ambulance
-Rhino engineering vehicle
-Land Raider ARV/Engineering for those super-heavy tanks
would be a good start. Simply releasing the kits to add onto a standard Rhino would be the simplest method, ala Chaos Rhino
I feel like the Thunderhawk Transporter fills the ARV role, as it can just fly in and pick up the hulks. All Space Marine aircraft all have life support systems too to my knowledge, so they double up as ambulances as well.
When considering the logistics of Marines, I don't think they can be considered in the same way as conventional military forces in real life. For a start they operate as special forces for the majority of missions, so wouldn't take extended equipment as they are extracted after the mission. If you consider the Strike cruiser in orbit as their base of operations, any logistical supplies would all be contained on the ship, and ferried back and forth in most situations, so most Marine logistical equipment is going to be travelling to or from orbit. I am sure Marines have supply drop pods for example, to drop to troops in the field, and use aircraft to ferry anything else. In the situations where Marines are forced to fight prolonged campaigns such as defensive operations where they cannot just extract after destroying the mission target, or in situations where they do not have orbital support, they probably can still use airborne assets to supply troops and extract casualties to bases of operations.
Basically, in my mind, the Thunderhawk/Storm Eagle/Storm Raven ARE the logistical vehicles of the Space Marines, along with Drop pods, so there isn't a need for specific models. (maybe rules for a supply Drop pod, which allows re-rolls of 1's to hit for allied units in 6" and replenishes one-shot weapons would be cool).
Not exactly sure what they would do without air supremacy, but I think Rhinos can fulfil many of the same roles on the ground for infantry. I don't think they would be refitted in anyway for such a use though, as they also have life support systems built in, so every Rhino is already an ambulance. A Rhino/Land Raider Techmarine variant for armoury use would be pretty awesome though.
Peregrine wrote:
ImAGeek wrote: Probably because the whole universe was created and written by civilians taking a stab at what a military force would look like.
Or because GW/FW know that non-combat support vehicles that rarely, if ever, see battlefield use are not going to sell well. Give FW some credit here, IA1 has fluff for IG support vehicles (cargo transports, a towing/recovery vehicle, etc) and the example regimental FOC includes those support elements. I'm pretty sure they understand that the logistics side of war exists, it's just something that mostly happens "off-camera".
They did used to sell all the Chimera/Trojan trailers for ammo and fuel supply, and they still sell the Trojan and the Atlas ARV to my knowledge, so the Imperial Guard do have all that represented in model form too. As well as the air-drop Valkyrie.
The Trojan and Atlas have interesting rules reflecting their roles too.
It reminds me of the hack jobs ISIS terrorists do on their home made armour produced in local garages from bulldozers and dump trucks. From a distance it looks like they put together two different tank chassis back-to-back and welded a Thunderhawk on the top of them, adding some Ork-style weaponry stations at the end.
Yaraton wrote: It reminds me of the hack jobs ISIS terrorists do on their home made armour produced in local garages from bulldozers and dump trucks. From a distance it looks like they put together two different tank chassis back-to-back and welded a Thunderhawk on the top of them, adding some Ork-style weaponry stations at the end.
Yaraton wrote: It reminds me of the hack jobs ISIS terrorists do on their home made armour produced in local garages from bulldozers and dump trucks. From a distance it looks like they put together two different tank chassis back-to-back and welded a Thunderhawk on the top of them, adding some Ork-style weaponry stations at the end.
IIRC, the Mastodon's purpose is to breach fortifications. The meltas in the front cut a hole for it to push it's way into. Then, not only does it unload the dudes it's carrying, but it also has doors on the rear to allow more dudes to use it as a fortified tunnel into the enemy's fortifications.
Tannhauser42 wrote: IIRC, the Mastodon's purpose is to breach fortifications. The meltas in the front cut a hole for it to push it's way into. Then, not only does it unload the dudes it's carrying, but it also has doors on the rear to allow more dudes to use it as a fortified tunnel into the enemy's fortifications.
So it is basically a mobile gate that can be inserted into someone else's wall Pretty awesome.
The new Wraith knights are not bad, but they don't add anything over the original model other than load-out variety for me though. The new Corsair models are nice only for completeness to the range too. I can see Mymeara being a big plus to anyone who collects Eldar though, rules-wise. Relatively "meh" Friday for me overall though, as I can't read the rules yet, and the models are underwhelming from a visual perspective for what they add to the range.
For me, after seeing the leak on the rules in the book, it seems like one of the #1 things that a Dark Eldar player would be interested in. The Corsairs pull off being a glass cannon far better than the Dark Eldar codex currently, with HQ choices that are actually interesting/customizable.
I just took a look at the FW "bundle deals" with the HH box set including resin upgrades.
Who exactly is going to buy that BS? That is the single most ridiculous thing I've ever seen FW try to sell. $341 for the HH set with resin upgrades? Are they trying to give me an aneurysm? How in hell is that supposed to be a deal, or worth 27% more than the HH box itself?
Really only worth it if you were going to purchase enough upgrades for all 30 marines in the first place.
Of course, it's more palatable down here, since we get $100 off (since it uses the UK price of BaC). Still probably not worth it unless you were already planning to buy 3 full sets of upgrades, though.
The subtle changes to the wraithknight make it look so much better in my opinion.
The HH bundles are insane, though. I'm not real interested in it anyway since Marines bore the feth out of me (though I still really like Salamanders), but those prices make it almost impossible for me to even consider it in the first place.
In regards to the prices I am pretty sure the type of person who drops £1000 on a model is the sort of person who will happily pay those prices and not even bat an eyelid.
On the The Doom of Mymeara page you can see the Skathach Wraithknight / Wraith-sentinel rules - what's the point of the Webway Shunt Generator? It's a JGC so can do that anyway?
Yep, you can tell from the "Wraith Titan" rule, because it's the same as the Imperial Titan rules introduced in Horus Heresy book 5 (released long after any of the newest Eldar FW rules)
While checking out the latest Leviathans in the Studio I also caught sight of a new Space Marine vehicle in development. It looks to me like an older pattern of Damocles Command Rhino for Legion armies, take a look...
Nice model and probably one that didn't require any extra effort to produce:
Take 1 Deimos Rhino Add in 1 toplate from the Hyperios or old resin Whirlwind kits Season with the Hyperios Command Platform part from the now OOP tarantula set (Optional) add in resin interior parts from current Deimos kit
zedmeister wrote: Nice model and probably one that didn't require any extra effort to produce:
Take 1 Deimos Rhino
Add in 1 toplate from the Hyperios or old resin Whirlwind kits
Season with the Hyperios Command Platform part from the now OOP tarantula set
(Optional) add in resin interior parts from current Deimos kit
Bake in resin mould. Serve to excited customers.
Fin
Except it already exists in the form of Damocles Command Vehicle (new pattern Rhino):
They could have done with making a new command dish thingy for the older version of the Rhino rather than just using the existing one. Something with more ridges perhaps. =/
Wyrmalla wrote: They could have done with making a new command dish thingy for the older version of the Rhino rather than just using the existing one. Something with more ridges perhaps. =/
Could of been cool with an old school satellite dish look like the one that one gothic terrain guy makes
Why? They already have the kit which they now are adopting for Deimos pattern Rhino to make it available for 30K. If you need another "command" option there is still Land Raider Prometheus for sale, which, apparently could be taken now (according to the website description) as a Mechanicum Land Raider option too.
Yaraton wrote: Why? They already have the kit which they now are adopting for Deimos pattern Rhino to make it available for 30K. If you need another "command" option there is still Land Raider Prometheus for sale, which, apparently could be taken now (according to the website description) as a Mechanicum Land Raider option too.
The "new" rhino is not 40K only. I believe fluff-wise the later mark rhino was around during the Heresy but not in as many numbers.
Yaraton wrote: Why? They already have the kit which they now are adopting for Deimos pattern Rhino to make it available for 30K. If you need another "command" option there is still Land Raider Prometheus for sale, which, apparently could be taken now (according to the website description) as a Mechanicum Land Raider option too.
Because visual diversity is interesting and if you're going to fork over the amounts of money FW want for their models it would be nice to feel like a little more effort was put into the kit than "just slap the old dish on the Heresy Rhino kit, none of the plebs will care". It's not monstrously ugly or anything, just a missed opportunity.
"How can we get the most money out of the sheeple with the least work this week?"
"Er uh... Take two existing kits and mash them together?"
"Yer a bloomin' genius, mate!"
While the pattern of rhino most prevalent in 40k existed in 30k it was not the most prevalent in that era. There are people who want there rhinos to be the more appropriate pattern and this caters to them. Not every release is a big flashy one. This is just as appropriate as different heavy weapons or different patterns of armor so I don't think it adds anything of worth when you make inflammatory statements about this. Maybe GW thinks so low of its fans but is this the place for that discussion?
At the end of they day we all play a game with toys and there are enough people who look down on that that we don't need to hate on anyone in this hobby.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're retooling to bring them inline with the plastics; things like hands on bolter instead of on arms so that everything can use the same conversion kits.
aka_mythos wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if they're retooling to bring them inline with the plastics; things like hands on bolter instead of on arms so that everything can use the same conversion kits.
Nah I think it's just the non 'legion' kits because they're older, less varied kits. I think they've just been retired. All the conversion kits have been made so far with the resins in mind so if anything the plastics should've had hands on arms instead of bolters if they wanted them to be used with the same conversion kits. If that is what they want all the conversion kits it applies to will need redoing too.
FWs been reworking a number of the earlier HH models I see no reason to believe they wouldn't consider it with these. I think the other alternative is that they'll discontinue the resin MKIV in favor of the plastics.
aka_mythos wrote: FWs been reworking a number of the earlier HH models I see no reason to believe they wouldn't consider it with these. I think the other alternative is that they'll discontinue the resin MKIV in favor of the plastics.
They still have the 'Legion MkIV' up. I think they're just retiring the older version.
News to me too. I have heard they might be doing more MkV stuff though for Book 6, shattered legions and black shields. Can't remember where I heard it, could've dreamt it even.
I actually prefer the older Mk. IV set to the Legion variant. You get a broader range of poses with the legion one, but 3 out of the 5 are static and one thing we don't lack for is static marine legs.
If the general pre-heresy sets, rather than Legion variants, are to start going OOP I'll be a little sad since you require both sets to get a good variety of leg poses for that armour mark.
Going plastic is not an improvement if they follow the BaC example and make them all flat footed and stationary.
I was told that they were redoing some of the weapons packs with hands on them, not sure about those.
Pretty sure they will keep the legion versions and are just retiring the older original early armour sets.
So, I decided to pop Forge World an email asking them about this and this is the reply I got:
Forge World Customer Support wrote:Thanks for the email, fear not for the kits your after have been temporarily removed for remastering. We have decided to make a few improvements to a few of our kits and will be working on a good number weapon packs and Heresy era armour kits to bring them a little more up to date and allow for a more enjoyable hobby experience.
Please keep and eye on the newsletters and keep coming back to our web store as once the work has been finished they will go back on sale. For now we don't know how long these projects will take but as we understand it they will be done in batches of products
Thanks again and speak soon.
So it sounds like other weapon packs might start disappearing to be "improved". I'm betting this means taking the hands off the armor kits and adding them to the weapons, since that seems to be the standard of Space Marine kits nowadays.
Darth Bob wrote: So, I decided to pop Forge World an email asking them about this and this is the reply I got:
Forge World Customer Support wrote:Thanks for the email, fear not for the kits your after have been temporarily removed for remastering. We have decided to make a few improvements to a few of our kits and will be working on a good number weapon packs and Heresy era armour kits to bring them a little more up to date and allow for a more enjoyable hobby experience.
Please keep and eye on the newsletters and keep coming back to our web store as once the work has been finished they will go back on sale. For now we don't know how long these projects will take but as we understand it they will be done in batches of products
Thanks again and speak soon.
So it sounds like other weapon packs might start disappearing to be "improved". I'm betting this means taking the hands off the armor kits and adding them to the weapons, since that seems to be the standard of Space Marine kits nowadays.
Yaraton wrote: Why? They already have the kit which they now are adopting for Deimos pattern Rhino to make it available for 30K. If you need another "command" option there is still Land Raider Prometheus for sale, which, apparently could be taken now (according to the website description) as a Mechanicum Land Raider option too.
The "new" rhino is not 40K only. I believe fluff-wise the later mark rhino was around during the Heresy but not in as many numbers.
Correct. It is currently unclear as to what extent the Mars pattern chassis was around though- the basic Rhino is certainly in use, but there haven't been any variants so far released in a FW publication. Except for a possible, weird chimaera of a vehicle that appears to be a Deimos pattern hull married to a Mars pattern Vindicator front glacis, Demolisher cannon, and roof in a background image in Book 4, pg 186.
The Prometheus is post Heresy so far, but there is (was as of Book 5?) a Mechanicum Land Raider option for quad heavy bolter sponsons. Doesn't share any of the other rules though. It is a use for the model, not a HH version of the Prometheus.
P.P.S. What's the difference between "MKIV Maximus Armour" and "Legion MKIV Maximus Armour"?
The Legion Heavy Flamers were sold out, when I mailed them about it they said the following:
Forgeworld wrote:The Legion Heavy Flamers are being modified to have the hands attached to the weapons themselves. Once this has been carried out, they will go back on to our webstore. At this moment in time, we do not have a date as to when they would return, but we would estimate it being in the next 2-6 weeks.
pretty nice sculpt. was just thinking today that they were due another character series release. Kinda hoping a new primarch would be around the corner. Really looking forward to Magnus' eventual arrival
Garro looks nice.. but wait, since when have the Character Series been £45? Apparently they did the price hike with Eidolon, now that I look at FW pages.. Typhus and a couple of others are still at £32, though
Garro is a very solid model, but compared to other character models like Sigismund or Eidolon it lacks a certain level of details. One can see FW is missing their second best sculptor ...
P.P.S. What's the difference between "MKIV Maximus Armour" and "Legion MKIV Maximus Armour"?
The Legion Heavy Flamers were sold out, when I mailed them about it they said the following:
Forgeworld wrote:The Legion Heavy Flamers are being modified to have the hands attached to the weapons themselves. Once this has been carried out, they will go back on to our webstore. At this moment in time, we do not have a date as to when they would return, but we would estimate it being in the next 2-6 weeks.
Well, that's great for BaC builds, but apparently I'm now going to have to cut those hands back out of the heavy flamers to use them with any of the resin legion infantry sets. Kind of sucks for anyone building a non-BaC army who wants to use them.
P.P.S. What's the difference between "MKIV Maximus Armour" and "Legion MKIV Maximus Armour"?
The Legion Heavy Flamers were sold out, when I mailed them about it they said the following:
Forgeworld wrote:The Legion Heavy Flamers are being modified to have the hands attached to the weapons themselves. Once this has been carried out, they will go back on to our webstore. At this moment in time, we do not have a date as to when they would return, but we would estimate it being in the next 2-6 weeks.
Well, that's great for BaC builds, but apparently I'm now going to have to cut those hands back out of the heavy flamers to use them with any of the resin legion infantry sets. Kind of sucks for anyone building a non-BaC army who wants to use them.
Or just cut the hands off the resin arms, probably easier.
Well, that's great for BaC builds, but apparently I'm now going to have to cut those hands back out of the heavy flamers to use them with any of the resin legion infantry sets. Kind of sucks for anyone building a non-BaC army who wants to use them.
Or just cut the hands off the resin arms, probably easier.
Yeah. Duh on my part. Still annoying that they pulled them NOW, when I was going to be getting some of the "low-carry" heavy weapons for my PH Salamanders soon.
But my goodness is that pricey for a regular sm sized character. (non-terminator, non-primarch)
Yeah, lovely model. He looks quite chunky compared to normal power armour and his saves are 2+/4++ (3++ in challenges) with an assault 3 bolter, so pretty comparable to terminator armour really.
I'm not totally in love with the head, that might be getting a swap. I always pictured him as stern rather than sort of leering. Otherwise I love it and the rules are pretty fun.
The Legion Heavy Flamers were sold out, when I mailed them about it they said the following:
Forgeworld wrote:The Legion Heavy Flamers are being modified to have the hands attached to the weapons themselves. Once this has been carried out, they will go back on to our webstore. At this moment in time, we do not have a date as to when they would return, but we would estimate it being in the next 2-6 weeks.
I hope not. The draft needed for permanent moulds used in plastics bother me a lot more than it should. I went so far as to carve it out on a power fist once so the fingers would actually be fingers.
SickSix wrote: So is this heavy flamer issue a sign that FW will be getting out of the power armor business and just do accessories, characters and vehicles?
no it's a sign that they are modifying their products to work with the new Battle at Calth plastics which also have the hands attatched to the guns
Garro looks like his left wrist is just about dislocated (or he swing the sword so hard that it is slipping out of his fingers and he's about to drop it). Talk about an awkward pose. That, the ridonculous chest bird and the cartooney bolter detract from the rest of the model that could have been spectacular.
His legs and feet seem off to me. He just looks like he was tacked onto that base as an afterthought and not sculpted onto it, I mean look at how odd his feet look on that body. IDK, he is OK but for 45 frickin pounds I think he should be better.
Red Corsair wrote: His legs and feet seem off to me. He just looks like he was tacked onto that base as an afterthought and not sculpted onto it, I mean look at how odd his feet look on that body. IDK, he is OK but for 45 frickin pounds I think he should be better.
During the open day, someone said that one of his legs was cybernetic. I don't know the reason for the rest of the posture, but so far I feel like the figure need some refinement...
Red Corsair wrote: His legs and feet seem off to me. He just looks like he was tacked onto that base as an afterthought and not sculpted onto it, I mean look at how odd his feet look on that body. IDK, he is OK but for 45 frickin pounds I think he should be better.
Yeah the feet don't look like they're on the base properly, he's almost just perched on top of the Gal Vorbak. I like him but that does look a little awkward.
When did the IoM switch to a double headed eagle? I thought that happened when they unified with Mars. Which would have happened, by the point this model was sculpted for.
Yeah it does signify the union, however at the point Garro is set out on his quest Mars has all but fallen, Imperial Fists evacuated after a strike to grab war supplies. Garro's armour signifies the Emperor alone I believe,
+ 
).
train. Those Grav-flux bombards annihilate any infantry in the open and are the bane of vehicles with 3 
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