TwilightSparkles wrote: Yeah it does signify the union, however at the point Garro is set out on his quest Mars has all but fallen, Imperial Fists evacuated after a strike to grab war supplies. Garro's armour signifies the Emperor alone I believe,
The chest eagle and the eagle behind the collar are both described in Flight of the Eisenstein, and both as singular eagles, not two headed. They were marks of his rank as "Battle-Captain", a designator for the captain of the 7th company, and a title that dated from when they were the Dusk Raiders.
Also, yes, his right leg, from mid-thigh down, is artificial.
I'm waiting for Sanguinius. But we have to wait until spring 2017. In the meantime, I guess I'll get Garro, and when Retribution comes out, make a Knights-Errant list.
Nicky J wrote: I don't remember anyone pointing this out before, but quite a lot of the upgrade packs are now available as separate head and torso packs;
Tickets for the HH weekender 6th and 7th Feb are up for pre order if you went last year, general sale is 4th December. At the Belfry as per last year. I can't go this year as I've booked something else already that weekend.
There won't be as its only for people who went last year till it goes on general sale on 4th as I mentioned
Still worth me highlighting the dates for those having to wait till the general sale date so people can get dates/monies sorted.
Here's the text now that I'm not on mobile:
The Horus Heresy Weekender 2016
THE HORUS HERESY WEEKENDER - 2016
The Horus Heresy Weekender returns to the Nottingham Belfry Hotel on Saturday 6th and Sunday 7th February 2016.
Horus Heresy Weekender Ticket
As you were at this awesome event last year we'd like to give you the chance to order your tickets before anyone else. Tickets will be going on sale through forgeworld.co.uk on Friday 4th December, but you can order yours right now!
To order your tickets before they go on general sale, please call our Customer Service Team on 0115 400 4995. You'll need to confirm your email address as a reference when you place your order. Tickets are limited to four per customer and will be posted to you with free delivery.
We expect tickets to sell out quickly. Don't miss out, order yours today!
THE WARRIORS OF PROSPERO ARE COMING! There were once twenty Legiones Astartes. Two are lost to history, expunged from the Imperial records, and eighteen remained as The Horus Heresy began. So far Forge World has created unique upgrades of heads, torsos and shoulder pads for sixteen of the Legions, leaving only the Thousand Sons and Space Wolves to go.
This week I caught sight of more upgrades coming soon from the Forge World Studio, and they look fantastic. The warriors of Fenris might have to wait a little longer, but the sons of Magnus the Red are on their way!
MajorWesJanson wrote: Basic troops don't really need ornate bits, so this works out quite well. They aren't Emperor's Children or Ultramarines with their bling.
Looks a bit basic for a guy with a srg load out is the problem. Most of the upgrade kits give you one realy bling torso and head for your srg. Or even a PAHQ choice.
Your right to it looks great for your more basic dudes.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Basic troops don't really need ornate bits, so this works out quite well. They aren't Emperor's Children or Ultramarines with their bling.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Basic troops don't really need ornate bits, so this works out quite well. They aren't Emperor's Children or Ultramarines with their bling.
Looks a bit basic for a guy with a srg load out is the problem. Most of the upgrade kits give you one realy bling torso and head for your srg. Or even a PAHQ choice.
Your right to it looks great for your more basic dudes.
They usually just show all the chests with load outs like that so there isn't a gun blocking the torsos so it might not mean there isn't a blingy one. And the last few, they haven't really had one blingy torso, they've all been pretty evenly blinged. (White Scars, Alpha Legion, Dark Angels, Blood Angels).
Nicky J wrote: I don't remember anyone pointing this out before, but quite a lot of the upgrade packs are now available as separate head and torso packs
As far as I remember, Legion-specific heads and torsos were always made separate first and only later amalgamated into Legion-specific kits.
I agree with the others. That does look pretty plain. Even when compared against the new releases like mentioned above, this really is just a scarab on a flat chest piece.
The others have different harnesses, additional tubing, etc. It looks like they've made 5 different ones for each so far though. So if this is the least of the 5 there's still hope.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Basic troops don't really need ornate bits, so this works out quite well. They aren't Emperor's Children or Ultramarines with their bling.
To each their own
What matters are the sorcerers. These are the most basic troops. We've yet to see any of their legion specific units.
Nicky J wrote: I don't remember anyone pointing this out before, but quite a lot of the upgrade packs are now available as separate head and torso packs;
Not quite sure why all Night Lords in that squad have a single red gauntlet though. Is that a chapter specific thing or have they all been marked for the Night Lord equivalent of censure?
BrookM wrote: Not quite sure why all Night Lords in that squad have a single red gauntlet though. Is that a chapter specific thing or have they all been marked for the Night Lord equivalent of censure?
That's the Sinner's Gauntlet - it means they are marked to be executed by Curze for a crime commited by "traitors and fools"
THE WARRIORS OF PROSPERO ARE COMING! There were once twenty Legiones Astartes. Two are lost to history, expunged from the Imperial records, and eighteen remained as The Horus Heresy began. So far Forge World has created unique upgrades of heads, torsos and shoulder pads for sixteen of the Legions, leaving only the Thousand Sons and Space Wolves to go.
This week I caught sight of more upgrades coming soon from the Forge World Studio, and they look fantastic. The warriors of Fenris might have to wait a little longer, but the sons of Magnus the Red are on their way!
Ah finally! I have been waiting for Thousand Sons stuff for so long now. While that fella does look a little lacking in details I think it works well for an average marine and the style they have gone with matches how I pictured it perfectly. Maximus armour as well which means it's gonna go really well with the HH box set.
I'm most looking forward to the special units and characters though. Maybe if I start saving up now I'll be able to afford the $180 Ahriman model...
Zuul wrote: The Horus Heresy Legiones Astartes: Isstvan Campaign Legions red books are now unavailable!
Crap...I just bought mine recently.
It's probably worth an e-mail to see what's up.
I'm pretty sure they mentioned it was being slight updated at some point at whatever event was last.
Well, it won't affect my WE. But the completist in me wishes I'd waited a few months.
Then again...these things are only going to get updated more in the future as other legions are covered. And my guys will almost certainly get some updates whenever the Shadow Crusade book hits.
Zuul wrote: The Horus Heresy Legiones Astartes: Isstvan Campaign Legions red books are now unavailable!
Crap...I just bought mine recently.
It's probably worth an e-mail to see what's up.
I'm pretty sure they mentioned it was being slight updated at some point at whatever event was last.
Well, it won't affect my WE. But the completist in me wishes I'd waited a few months.
Then again...these things are only going to get updated more in the future as other legions are covered. And my guys will almost certainly get some updates whenever the Shadow Crusade book hits.
It may affect our world eaters as the original 4 are supposed to be getting an update, hopefully free ceadre weapons for Rampagers and 10pts for everyone else.
I emailed Forge World and asked about the books, since I'd been planning on getting the Gamer's Collection(along with everyone else, apparently). Here's what they said:
For the rules, the thing is devastating. You place the 7" template directly in front and move it in a direct straight line right across the table for 72" and anything touched by it is hit, including aircraft. Also, the bigger the target, the higher the strength of the hit. For example, infantry are hit with Str:5, vehicles, Str:8, Tanks with Str:10 and Superheavies with Str: D! Add in armourbane, Instant Death and Ignores cover for flavour with Volkite Culverins to shred infantry are you're golden.
It's a whopping 1075 pts as well, meaning that outside of really, really big games, or those using the Leviathan force organisation chart, it's hard to field in games of 30k.
And don't forget that it's all AP 2, so even infantry are dying on a 3+ with no armor or cover saves. Honestly it's probably overpowered and not going to be much fun to play against with those rules, especially since it's pretty much invulnerable for the first turn or two and you won't be able to kill it before it wipes out your whole army.
Still, my DKoK want one. Replace the crew with DKoK models, give it a proper paint job and some nice weathering...
zedmeister wrote: For the rules, the thing is devastating. You place the 7" template directly in front and move it in a direct straight line right across the table for 72" and anything touched by it is hit, including aircraft. Also, the bigger the target, the higher the strength of the hit. For example, infantry are hit with Str:5, vehicles, Str:8, Tanks with Str:10 and Superheavies with Str: D! Add in armourbane, Instant Death and Ignores cover for flavour with Volkite Culverins to shred infantry are you're golden.
THE WARRIORS OF PROSPERO ARE COMING! There were once twenty Legiones Astartes. Two are lost to history, expunged from the Imperial records, and eighteen remained as The Horus Heresy began. So far Forge World has created unique upgrades of heads, torsos and shoulder pads for sixteen of the Legions, leaving only the Thousand Sons and Space Wolves to go.
This week I caught sight of more upgrades coming soon from the Forge World Studio, and they look fantastic. The warriors of Fenris might have to wait a little longer, but the sons of Magnus the Red are on their way!
Right after I buy a Death Guard Contemptor and a bunch of Death Shroud.
Oh, well, knowing FW it'll probably be three to four years before it arrives in shop.
BrookM wrote: It's a whopping 1075 pts as well, meaning that outside of really, really big games, or those using the Leviathan force organisation chart, it's hard to field in games of 30k.
In 30k. Unfortunately you can take this thing in 40k games.
Peregrine wrote: And don't forget that it's all AP 2, so even infantry are dying on a 3+ with no armor or cover saves. Honestly it's probably overpowered and not going to be much fun to play against with those rules, especially since it's pretty much invulnerable for the first turn or two and you won't be able to kill it before it wipes out your whole army.
Still, my DKoK want one. Replace the crew with DKoK models, give it a proper paint job and some nice weathering...
Decent deployment and use of reserves would limit how much it can kill first couple of turns. As its going to be stuck shooting across the the narrow part of the table and if you deploy length wise, spread out as much as possible you'll limit what it can remove to a unit or two. Against anything with a few HP it'll struggle to remove them in a single turn by itself without lucky roles as its only hitting them once. I suspect an appropriately armed Warlord or Ventarii Maniple could remove it in a turn or two and isn't that many more points for the Warlord.
Looky Likey wrote: I suspect an appropriately armed Warlord or Ventarii Maniple could remove it in a turn or two and isn't that many more points for the Warlord.
A warlord is almost 3x more expensive! So I'd sure hope that it can kill one quickly. And honestly, "it can be killed by another broken 'wipe your whole army off the table' super-unit" is hardly a compelling argument for it being balanced...
I mixed up my points for the Warlord and Reaver Thinking again, a Reaver with maxed out D in the form of 2 laser blasters and a turbo blaster would make short work of it. Yes its more points but the Reaver is far more versatile than the Ordinatus, which is very dependent on the opponents setup for mass removal.
You need big stuff on both sides of the table not just one side for it to be fun, TFG who brings one to a normal game are rarely fun to play against anyway. Any games I bring my big stuff to are carefully balanced so my opponent knows about it in advance, and they bring something that can counter it.
Its all resin while the plastic LR is cheaper than it'd be in resin, so its closer to £190 for the chassis using that model (£105 for the Spartan, £77 for the plastic LR alpha with its resin upgrades rising to £90 for the Proteus so somewhere between the two for an all resin LR) and you also have the giant gun to add in to the price, thats as long as the Triaros.
I like the gun, and the style of the chassis. I don't like that it's a quad track with the tracks going "backward"... this thing can't climb more than a 2' wall.
Finally! So many people were drooling over it when it started showing up in the previews lets see how many will be actually bought, painted and shown here on Dakkadakka.
Totally underwhelmed by this. Maybe I've played too much epic but I can't help but think it's missing the front third. This just looks like a carriage that something else should be towing.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I like the gun, and the style of the chassis. I don't like that it's a quad track with the tracks going "backward"... this thing can't climb more than a 2' wall.
If there's anything bigger than finely ground Enemy going under those tracks your just not using it properly.
"Do we go over or around the mountain/garden shed/any target between those two things?"
"We don't want to be too rash here, Fire up the Ordinatus!"
the Wolftime is almost upon us!!!
can't wait!!!
unleash the dogs of war aaaawwwwoooooooooo
man, i hope the HH wolves sculpts are as cool as the 40K Terminator upgrade set...
i will be all over that...
i have been waiting years for my favorite Legion to get some love...
Corswain! Though from what I recall we won't be seeing any characters or their respective rules specific to the Legions to be featured in the next book for some time to come.
i like the DA in 40K well enough, but i have to say that the HH look is so much cooler...
the black armor, white checks, and white feathers make a great combo...
a little splash of red for the Legion badge and helmet lenses, and you have one seriously badass looking space knight...
as much as i want to do a cool vignette of a SW and a DA facing off for an honor duel in 40K, a 30K version (with the legion colors) would look so much better...
the scene where Russ' envoy steps up to the Lion in Unremembered Empire was awesome...
i know we still may have to wait quite a while, but i really look forward to seeing how FW does both Russ and the Lion...
i've been impressed with nearly all of the Primarchs, so far...
JohnHwangDD wrote: I like the gun, and the style of the chassis. I don't like that it's a quad track with the tracks going "backward"... this thing can't climb more than a 2' wall.
It looks (from the pictures) like the tracks are only connected at one point so you should be able to just switch left and right with each other to turn them around and solve that problem.
ImAGeek wrote: What are those Dark Angel/SW/TS pictures actually from? They don't look like the FW books.
What else would you expect from the SW? That's part of their look even then, and this is just one example, they'll be more varied in the final book.
They look exactly like FW books from the art to the font to the overall style. They're either from the next HH book or from the revised reprint of the two army books that are currently OOP.
ImAGeek wrote: What are those Dark Angel/SW/TS pictures actually from? They don't look like the FW books.
What else would you expect from the SW? That's part of their look even then, and this is just one example, they'll be more varied in the final book.
They look exactly like FW books from the art to the font to the overall style. They're either from the next HH book or from the revised reprint of the two army books that are currently OOP.
No they don't. The art and the font yeah, but the whole red background and layout is nothing like the FW books, and the smaller red books don't have any of the art or fluff in.
ImAGeek wrote: What are those Dark Angel/SW/TS pictures actually from? They don't look like the FW books.
What else would you expect from the SW? That's part of their look even then, and this is just one example, they'll be more varied in the final book.
They look exactly like FW books from the art to the font to the overall style. They're either from the next HH book or from the revised reprint of the two army books that are currently OOP.
No they don't. The art and the font yeah, but the whole red background and layout is nothing like the FW books, and the smaller red books don't have any of the art or fluff in.
I thought I saw images that were formatted that way during the BaC release. Don't have a copy myself but can anyone confirm?
Mechanicum Ordinatus Ulator Store Page wrote:The Mechanicum Ordinatus Ulator is a Lords of War choice for Mechanicum armies in Horus Heresy games. It can also be taken as a Lords of War Choice by Adeptus Mechanicus: Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii armies in games of Warhammer 40,000 using the rules found in The Horus Heresy: Mechanicum – Taghmata Army List.
So it looks like it is intended to be usable in normal 40k O.o
ImAGeek wrote: What are those Dark Angel/SW/TS pictures actually from? They don't look like the FW books.
What else would you expect from the SW? That's part of their look even then, and this is just one example, they'll be more varied in the final book.
They look exactly like FW books from the art to the font to the overall style. They're either from the next HH book or from the revised reprint of the two army books that are currently OOP.
No they don't. The art and the font yeah, but the whole red background and layout is nothing like the FW books, and the smaller red books don't have any of the art or fluff in.
You need to take another at the HH books. The first page of the fluff chapters (like the pages shown here) have full red backgrounds. It's a different shade of red but it's still red.
angelofvengeance wrote: Can't wait to see some Dark Angels Luther, Cypher and Merir Astelan and the rest!
Has it been confirmed that those characters will be in the next book? My impression was that the next book was only providing the Rites of War and Legion Relics for what ever legions hadn't been covered but that they'd still have to wait until later for characters and legion specific units.
man, i hope the HH wolves sculpts are as cool as the 40K Terminator upgrade set...
Speaking of which... It's no longer available from the FW website. When did this happen?
i'm not sure, since i bought mine years ago, when the L.A. Battle Bunker carried FW...
it would be a shame if they don't get a new mold, as the resin detail is finer than the plastics...
you could email FW, and ask if they are coming back...
The art from those posters is 2 years old, from prints at the first HH Weekender, with the exception of the Dark Angel marine which was shown in October as a "Lance Decurion". The background is new but likely only for the WHW exhibition
ImAGeek wrote: What are those Dark Angel/SW/TS pictures actually from? They don't look like the FW books.
What else would you expect from the SW? That's part of their look even then, and this is just one example, they'll be more varied in the final book.
They look exactly like FW books from the art to the font to the overall style. They're either from the next HH book or from the revised reprint of the two army books that are currently OOP.
No they don't. The art and the font yeah, but the whole red background and layout is nothing like the FW books, and the smaller red books don't have any of the art or fluff in.
You need to take another at the HH books. The first page of the fluff chapters (like the pages shown here) have full red backgrounds. It's a different shade of red but it's still red.
This:
Is a completely different format to this:
Plus, if those are pages from the next book, the centre fold is going to cut right through the middle of the shoulder pad pictures. These aren't from the books.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: So it looks like it is intended to be usable in normal 40k O.o
Yep, I caught that. And 40k doesn't have the 25% cap on LoW point costs, so you can take this thing in small games.
Or you could use the Leviathan force organisation chart, run it in a 1500 pts game of Horus Heresy, then use up the remainder of the points to run allied Mechanicum.
ImAGeek wrote: What are those Dark Angel/SW/TS pictures actually from? They don't look like the FW books.
What else would you expect from the SW? That's part of their look even then, and this is just one example, they'll be more varied in the final book.
They look exactly like FW books from the art to the font to the overall style. They're either from the next HH book or from the revised reprint of the two army books that are currently OOP.
No they don't. The art and the font yeah, but the whole red background and layout is nothing like the FW books, and the smaller red books don't have any of the art or fluff in.
I thought I saw images that were formatted that way during the BaC release. Don't have a copy myself but can anyone confirm?
I thought so too, but I've just flicked through the rule/fluff book for BaC and it is formatted the same way as the big FWHH books. I really feel I've seen formatting of that style somewhere before though. Hmmm. That is going to bug me now!
I feel like I've seen a similar format hidden somewhere in one of the books though. Hmmm. I cba to check through them all at the moment though.
Cool exhibit though!
Having all 18 in order as posters would be pretty damn awesome! Im gonna have to go visit Warhammer world at some point. My route to and from Uni to home takes me near to Nottingham. Hmmm....
Hanskrampf wrote: The sponson weapons look out of place. But the Mechanicus vehicles are generally not to my taste.
They do seem a bit odd, but a big vehicle does need some close defense weapons. What I want to know is how they painted them. That blue glow is wonderful.
Hanskrampf wrote: The sponson weapons look out of place. But the Mechanicus vehicles are generally not to my taste.
They do seem a bit odd, but a big vehicle does need some close defense weapons. What I want to know is how they painted them. That blue glow is wonderful.
T
I'm guessing turquise, light sky blue-ish tone, white, layer it on gently and you'll get something quite similar quite easily.
Hanskrampf wrote: The sponson weapons look out of place. But the Mechanicus vehicles are generally not to my taste.
They do seem a bit odd, but a big vehicle does need some close defense weapons. What I want to know is how they painted them. That blue glow is wonderful.
T
I'm thinking they would look a bit better if there was some sort of servitor gun platform in the front, and maybe a walking platform or something. Would give a nice 'industrial machine on tracks' kind of feel:
Ooh I had forgotten about those, thanks for reminding me/us! Hmm I can't remember (and can't be bothered to find the FW thread at the time either...) but it must be soon now. I hope they do one, always a bit of amusement.
Forgive me in advance, but is there an update coming for the Horus Heresy books? I only ask because I was thinking about ordering them but if FW was about to update them i might hold off till the new edition. thanks.
Haighus wrote: Ooh I had forgotten about those, thanks for reminding me/us! Hmm I can't remember (and can't be bothered to find the FW thread at the time either...) but it must be soon now. I hope they do one, always a bit of amusement.
Got the new doom of mymeara, corsairs are SOLID, new wraithknight and titans are simply obscene in regards to capability per point, and they removed the stats for every imperial guard vehicle and the campaign missions in the back.
If my primary army wasn't corsairs I would consider asking for my money back...
mjl7atlas wrote: Forgive me in advance, but is there an update coming for the Horus Heresy books? I only ask because I was thinking about ordering them but if FW was about to update them i might hold off till the new edition. thanks.
The Istvaan Legions red book is sold out right now anyways. When I emailed to ask about it, FW stated that another print run was being done, but that they didn't expect it in time for Christmas. Whether that means they're also updating at the same time... is anyone's guess.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Got the new doom of mymeara, corsairs are SOLID, new wraithknight and titans are simply obscene in regards to capability per point, and they removed the stats for every imperial guard vehicle and the campaign missions in the back.
If my primary army wasn't corsairs I would consider asking for my money back...
Didn't they do this because all (or almost all) of the IG dataslates were consolidated into IA1, 2nd ed?
Haighus wrote: Ooh I had forgotten about those, thanks for reminding me/us! Hmm I can't remember (and can't be bothered to find the FW thread at the time either...) but it must be soon now. I hope they do one, always a bit of amusement.
Haighus wrote: Ooh I had forgotten about those, thanks for reminding me/us! Hmm I can't remember (and can't be bothered to find the FW thread at the time either...) but it must be soon now. I hope they do one, always a bit of amusement.
I'm betting it is Corax.
It'll go Corax, then Alpharius, then Dorn.
But, really, Alpharius could be any one of them. Or any of the other, already released ones. Or just Astartes #3 from the left, over there.
Haighus wrote: Ooh I had forgotten about those, thanks for reminding me/us! Hmm I can't remember (and can't be bothered to find the FW thread at the time either...) but it must be soon now. I hope they do one, always a bit of amusement.
I'm betting it is Corax.
It'll go Corax, then Alpharius, then Dorn.
But, really, Alpharius could be any one of them. Or any of the other, already released ones. Or just Astartes #3 from the left, over there.
Yeah, I would bet the miniature would be based on his ceremonial armor that is depicted in HH III.
Haighus wrote: Ooh I had forgotten about those, thanks for reminding me/us! Hmm I can't remember (and can't be bothered to find the FW thread at the time either...) but it must be soon now. I hope they do one, always a bit of amusement.
I'm betting it is Corax.
It'll go Corax, then Alpharius, then Dorn.
But, really, Alpharius could be any one of them. Or any of the other, already released ones. Or just Astartes #3 from the left, over there.
Yeah, I would bet the miniature would be based on his ceremonial armor that is depicted in HH III.
casvalremdeikun wrote: *Sigh* And this is how long strings of posts saying "I AM ALPHARIUS!" get started and then I have to post "Am...am I Alpharius?".
casvalremdeikun wrote: *Sigh* And this is how long strings of posts saying "I AM ALPHARIUS!" get started and then I have to post "Am...am I Alpharius?".
Well, are you?
I can't say for sure that I am NOT Alpharius.
But anyway, I agree that making a special model for Alpharius does take away from the anonymity of the Alpha Legion, but then again, there is never a guarantee that the guy in the armor is actually Alpharius.
casvalremdeikun wrote: *Sigh* And this is how long strings of posts saying "I AM ALPHARIUS!" get started and then I have to post "Am...am I Alpharius?".
Well, are you?
I can't say for sure that I am NOT Alpharius.
But anyway, I agree that making a special model for Alpharius does take away from the anonymity of the Alpha Legion, but then again, there is never a guarantee that the guy in the armor is actually Alpharius.
I'm sure Alpharius did also have more ceremonial armours and stuff, there would have been times he needed it, or needed someone else to wear it. I'd rather they made a really cool model for Alpharius than just use a normal guy or have a really plain model for him.
casvalremdeikun wrote: *Sigh* And this is how long strings of posts saying "I AM ALPHARIUS!" get started and then I have to post "Am...am I Alpharius?".
Well, are you?
I can't say for sure that I am NOT Alpharius.
But anyway, I agree that making a special model for Alpharius does take away from the anonymity of the Alpha Legion, but then again, there is never a guarantee that the guy in the armor is actually Alpharius.
I'm sure Alpharius did also have more ceremonial armours and stuff, there would have been times he needed it, or needed someone else to wear it. I'd rather they made a really cool model for Alpharius than just use a normal guy or have a really plain model for him.
His rules pretty much have both. He is a regular guy until you want him to be the ceremonial armored version.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Got the new doom of mymeara, corsairs are SOLID, new wraithknight and titans are simply obscene in regards to capability per point, and they removed the stats for every imperial guard vehicle and the campaign missions in the back.
If my primary army wasn't corsairs I would consider asking for my money back...
Didn't they do this because all (or almost all) of the IG dataslates were consolidated into IA1, 2nd ed?
That's fine, but there is no reason to remove the actual missions for the campaign. They also didn't make Odon a tank commander, they kept him as a foot slogging command squad leader. He should be in a tank. He's the high commander for the 6th armored regiment, he leads the soldiers in tank maneuvers in the field, he should be in a friggin tank
They also missed the boat in regards to mark of the wulfen. New fluff says Bran Redmaw's great company are the only ones accepting them, and for some reason they didn't throw people who owned them a bone with some statistical love.
For those in the know, do the HH books have rules for Alpharius and Omegon separately? Or is it a special character you can just take two of? Or because they're never around publicly together in the same place because secrets that the part of the fluff is ignored? I'm just curious how reasonable it is to expect a two figure primarch offering.
Nope, there's just Alpharius and a pair of other characters, no Omegon.
edit.
I think at this point they're very much waiting for the trainwreck that is the Alpha Legion in the novels to properly flesh out now that the Heresy is ongoing.
BrookM wrote: Nope, there's just Alpharius and a pair of other characters, no Omegon.
edit.
I think at this point they're very much waiting for the trainwreck that is the Alpha Legion in the novels to properly flesh out now that the Heresy is ongoing.
Thanks. Too bad. I think this is a nice opportunity to make a double figure primach set and I hope they don't miss it just to make another incredibly expensive figure on top of a rock on top of a wrecked vehicle on top of a hill. It feels like the Forgeworld HH character line has become a terrain line with the increasingly vast majority of the resin UNDER the actual figure.
warboss wrote: For those in the know, do the HH books have rules for Alpharius and Omegon separately? Or is it a special character you can just take two of? Or because they're never around publicly together in the same place because secrets that the part of the fluff is ignored? I'm just curious how reasonable it is to expect a two figure primarch offering.
Omegon isn't mentioned at all in the FW books. I think it's because they're written almost like history books and Omegon wasnt common knowledge.
If FW plans to make versions of some Primarchs "before" and "after", than they surely can make a proper AL Primarch by adding a miniature of Omegon. One of the reasons I thought Alpharius stats suck monkey's balls against pure math of any other Primarch so far made is because Alpharius and Omegon combined would kick the hell out of others.
Yaraton wrote: If FW plans to make versions of some Primarchs "before" and "after", than they surely can make a proper AL Primarch by adding a miniature of Omegon. One of the reasons I thought Alpharius stats suck monkey's balls against pure math of any other Primarch so far made is because Alpharius and Omegon combined would kick the hell out of others.
Yaraton wrote: If FW plans to make versions of some Primarchs "before" and "after", than they surely can make a proper AL Primarch by adding a miniature of Omegon. One of the reasons I thought Alpharius stats suck monkey's balls against pure math of any other Primarch so far made is because Alpharius and Omegon combined would kick the hell out of others.
That's not the only issue... Guilliman is just too powerful, and Rogal is incredibly weak, compared to all the others. Alparius is even worse than him, but Rogal at least is supposed to be a powerful warrior and a good tactican, where Alpharius is freaking amazing at strategy.
I thought his stats were worse just because he's smaller and not known for being a fighter, and his special rules make up for it in terms of what he does to his army.
ImAGeek wrote: I thought his stats were worse just because he's smaller and not known for being a fighter, and his special rules make up for it in terms of what he does to his army.
I think this is true, but I think he is small because he is a twin. I think at some point we will see FW rules for Omegon, but i doubt we will see a combined Alpha-Omega character pack unless they release Omegon rules before Alpharius' model is finished. Which would likely mean a very long wait for the model.
warboss wrote: I'm just curious how reasonable it is to expect a two figure primarch offering.
Can't you accomplish the same thing by buying two Alpharius models? I mean they're supposed to be identical or at lest indistinguishable, right?
Depends. If the Primarch model is a boring plain looking Marine, then yes. If it is full on elaborate glorious Primarch outfit, then it kinda gives the game away if there is two....
ImAGeek wrote: I thought his stats were worse just because he's smaller and not known for being a fighter, and his special rules make up for it in terms of what he does to his army.
I think this is true, but I think he is small because he is a twin. I think at some point we will see FW rules for Omegon, but i doubt we will see a combined Alpha-Omega character pack unless they release Omegon rules before Alpharius' model is finished. Which would likely mean a very long wait for the model.
Or, he's smaller because that's how the Emperor designed him...now, whether he designed him to actually be THEM, that's still up in the air. But the discussions of the primarch gene-tech in Deliverance Lost strongly hints that number XX was intentionally made smaller than his brothers.
Guilliman is the fourth best fighter amongst the released Primarchs ATM, with Horus, Fulgrim and Angron beating him. I imagine he'll drop to sixth once the last three are released, seventh depending on if they make the Lion s better fighter than him.
Though, Fulgrim and Angron are a coin flip most of the time, if Guilliman keeps Fulgrim concussed it is over for Fulgrim, while Angron dies if Guilliman gets the charge.
Isn't Rogal Dorns chainsword ap3 or unwieldy or something silly? That's the main problem with him, if I recall.
I think my only issue with Guilliman is that he's reasonably effective as a duelist, as he should be, but gets some really, really stupid buffs out of nowhere. The Armour of Reason being able to basically autotank every first hit made at it?! I don't think any other Primarch has anything that is even close to being that much bull. Horus has the best armour period of course, but it doesn't give that kind of insane protection, it just outrules a lot of the buffs others could have used to keep him down. Likewise, protection against Concussion is nice, but not if it's outside a Challenge, where you could say that it makes a lot more sense. The boost to WS is also nice and fluffy, but why is it that it isn't just a flat WS +1 in Challenges, like most other melee-minded Challenge characters has? Ultramarines aren't even known for being that good at Challenges and duels, that goes to te Emperors Children.
Crazyterran wrote: Guilliman is the fourth best fighter amongst the released Primarchs ATM, with Horus, Fulgrim and Angron beating him. I imagine he'll drop to sixth once the last three are released, seventh depending on if they make the Lion s better fighter than him.
Though, Fulgrim and Angron are a coin flip most of the time, if Guilliman keeps Fulgrim concussed it is over for Fulgrim, while Angron dies if Guilliman gets the charge.
Isn't Rogal Dorns chainsword ap3 or unwieldy or something silly? That's the main problem with him, if I recall.
Logar can also beat Guilliman one on one if you include all the blessings Logar can give himself. Angron's biggest problem is that 3+ save, you're doing something wrong if you haven't managed to chip off a wound or two from him on the way into combat.
What are you basing that Horus beats Guilliman, 1d4chan? Their numbers for Horus seem off
Horus is:
WS8, S7, T6, A5, 3++ and has shred
Guilliman is:
WS7, S6+1, T6, A4+1, 4++ master crafted and has shred
I get a 1.481 wounds inflicted on Guilliman without his reroll on his first save (I think that takes it to about 1?) as Horus hits Guilliman, 3 to hit, 3 to wound, while Guilliman hits on a 4, wounds on a 3s, 3++ means 0.741 wounds? I have them much closer than 1d4chan. I've ignored IWND as it applies equally to both.
Horus normally makes short work of his brothers because he knocks down their WS, but Guilliman has the perfect counter for it. If he can prevent Horus wounding him for a single turn he can force Horus into rolling 4s to hit, then Guilliman will win as he will gain in WS pushing him to hit on 3s on the second turn he doesn't take a wound (which is more likely as Horus will be hitting on 4s), Horus can't ever take WS from Guilliman so it becomes one sided.
I'm expecting The Lion, The Angel to be clearly better than Guilliman in CC, the Wolf and the Khan I'm not sure, I think they will be around Horus and Guilliman level. Magnus is going to be similar to Logar, awesome and unstoppable if you buff him up.
I'm waiting to see who is best overall Primarch in CC, the Lion or the Angel.
Dorn's chainsword is just useless, I hope he gets retooled when they redo him for the final battle on Terra. He should be hitting at full I with his hammer.
Ah I missed that, in that case Guilliman's power fist has a fixed strength of 10 so after the first wound he would switch from the sword to the hammer and drop to 0.694 wounds a turn from 0.741.
Perturabo with Forgebreaker only loses to Roboute, Lorgar Empowered and Horus, he beats everyone else due to Blind + Concussive. The page says he loses to Angron but for whatever reason the author forgets that Perturabo will Concussive/Blind Angron within a round or two, and Angron doesn't do enough damage to kill him in that time before Perturabo effectively takes over. Perturabo averages one unsaved wound per round (not including It Will Not Die) meaning Angron will be Concussed/Blinded in 5/6 rounds after the first/second. As I worked out below based off the maths done on 1d4chan (supposedly its mostly accurate), even if Perturabo doesn't beat Angron then he would still tie with Roboute for most wins and thus equal third place. So yes, you guys are definitely selling him short; I'm actually amazed no-one here mentioned Perturabo yet as while he loses to Roboute in a 1v1, he notches more overall wins (he only loses to Horus/Lorgar Empowered/Roboute, whereas Roboute loses to Horus/Lorgar Empowered/Fulgrim/Angron).
The other thing to keep in mind here is that the math done on 1d4chan mostly doesn't include the Blind/Concussive combo that Perturabo puts out, of which only a few (Horus, Roboute, maybe one other) are immune to. This is what makes him win almost all of the one on one duels eventually, even if Strikedown doesn't work as it used to.
As an aside @Looky Likey, Horus' Talon negates Guilliman's +1 WS bonus, meaning he will pretty much permanently hit Guilliman on 3s, wound him on 3s with re-rolls, has an extra attack and strikes first. Horus also ignores Concussive on a 3+, ergo Horus still has the overall advantage. You also forgot that Horus gets a bonus attack for having two close combat weapons (neither of them are Specialist Weapons). Also, going strictly off math averages, Horus WILL cause an unsaved wound on Guilliman in every single round, meaning Guilliman won't pull ahead on WS at any point.
Just to clarify, this is how all the Primarchs rank in terms of number of actual wins - and this assumes they have their best weapons (meaning Fulgrim has Fireblade, etc), the ones with Hit and Run can pull their shenanigans (namely Corax and Kurze), no charge bonuses so they are on an even footing (except for the aforementioned Hit and Run dudes once they start taking full advantage of that) and that the Primarchs are strictly 1v1 with no assisting models, while someone like Angron doesn't get his potential bonus attacks factored in - this is using the (mostly accurate?) numbers done on 1d4chan with corrections done where necessary (Strikedown doesn't affect Initiative anymore, etc);
Of course, it's a very different story if Angron gets bonus attacks first, but for these strict 1v1 duels he's actually not as crash hot as some believe. In fact, if Angron has maxed out bonus attacks, he gets 11 wins (only losing to Horus)! Also of note, regular Lorgar (i.e. not empowered) loses against everyone, including Alpharius.
The really surprising one to me is Vulkan, he literally beats most of the other Primarchs through sheer resilience....unlike Mortarion.
Also, if anyone has corrections on how many actual wins each Primarch gets, feel free. I couldn't be bothered doing the maths myself and just used the 1d4chan results.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Of the Primarchs still to come, I'm betting Magnus will be the strongest in 1v1 for the same reason as Lorgar Empowered; psychic powers + Primarch = virtually unstoppable lord of death. Magnus is supposed to be way, way stronger in terms of psychic powers than Lorgar and is also generally regarded as being one of the physically strongest Primarchs due to his sheer size. Of course, whether Forge World actually goes that route is the real question, especially as Magnus could very easily exceed the 500 point mark if they do him the same justice they have for the other Primarchs. Otherwise, Sanguinius should easily be the best and probably the only one that will be able to beat Horus (again, perhaps Magnus but who knows).
Gotta say, of all the Primarchs to get rules so far, I think Dorn is easily the most disappointing. He's the second weakest Primarch in 1v1 engagements, being superior only to Alpharius (and regular Lorgar if you count him), his overall stats are average but his weapons are awful. An Unwieldy Chainsword with Shred and Rampage is nowhere near as impressive as many of the other close combat weapons wielded by Primarchs, especially as Dorn has only base 4 Attacks and Strength 6. But hey, you can halve his attacks AFTER counting bonuses to get +2 Strength and Instant Death! Ok.....so even if he gets the charge and rolls a 3 on Rampage, he still only gets 4 Attacks at Strength 8 with Shred and Instant Death. Meanwhile at Vulkan/Perturabo/Roboute Guilliman/Ferrus Manus/Horus/Lorgar/etc.......
His defences are slightly above average as he can never be wounded on a 2+ but it's really nothing comparable to what someone like Vulkan gets. Also, has anyone else noticed that his ranged weapon is actually a detriment to him? It's a Salvo gun and he is NOT Relentless, meaning he can't charge if he shoots it. So....much....derp, especially as it is hilariously one of the weaker Primarch ranged weapons. His army wide buffs are pretty decent I think; +D3 to combat resolution hugely benefits a combat-oriented army - of which you can make Imperial Fists into, to be fair. If you look at how 30K lists tend to be constructed competitively, all those combat-oriented buffs really aren't that good in comparison to what many other Primarchs offer. I also derped here and thought his Furious Charge and Crusader were army-wide, but they only apply to him and his unit (sigh). His army-wide Leadership 10 in conjunction with Vexillas and Stubborn inside of terrain make Imperial Fists almost as good as Iron Warriors at holding ground at least. His bonus to three fortifications/buildings is nice enough, as is his in-built Teleport Homer and unlocking Terminators as Troops.
Yes, he is one of the cheapest Primarchs, but come on....I expected far more of the Praetorian. This isn't to say I think he is a bad Primarch rules-wise, just that he has two stupid limitations (a Salvo ranged weapon when he lacks Relentless, an Unwieldy melee weapon that is much weaker than almost all other Primarch weapons) and doesn't really provide that much compared to quite a few of the others. Also, there's another "what the?" moment with his rules where his only melee weapon is Unwieldy and yet he has Frag Grenades....I'm starting to think that his Chainsword wasn't intended to be Unwieldy! Honestly, the best use for Dorn is to bring a heavily discounted Thunderhawk Gunship at 3000+ point games. Comparing him to Fulgrim who is actually 5 points cheaper than Dorn just makes me so sad. Fulgrim is by far the better 1v1 Primarch duelist and is better at killing pretty much anything else due to being Strength 7 with master-crafting and Instant Death on 6s (assuming you take Fireblade) while fighting with an insanely high Initiative, Fulgrim is much harder to kill when in close combat, can potentially cause Blind, plus he gets to pick - not roll for, but actually pick - a Warlord Trait from either Strategic (the best trait table by far) or the Legion ones which can have some massive bonuses for his army or himself. His army wide buffs outside of what you can do with a guaranteed Strategic warlord trait are also decent with +2 to combat resolution scores - much like Dorn - and re-rolling reserve rolls, though obviously not quite as good as Dorn's. I would also say Fulgrim has the better ranged weapon simply because while Dorn's will do more damage, Fulgrim's doesn't stop him from charging.
As far as I'm concerned, literally nobody gets to moan about their Primarchs being underpowered or whatever, because at least FW didn't start this entire shindig literally at the moment in the background when yours was(newly, remember in the old fluff he was just "missing" like Vulkan, who somehow came out of that state as being literally unkillable...*eyebrow*) unceremoniously fething beheaded.
One book. We got one damn campaign book with Ferrus as an actual thing, and going forward the Iron Hands, as well as apparently never getting our own Heresy novel, will only even be mentioned as part of this "Shattered Legions" thing, where the Heresy writers both FW and BL have decided we have to be "fixed" by learning how to fight like Salamanders and Raven Guard.
So yeah, complaining your Primarch is marginally less effective in close combat against another is, IMO, the First World Problems of the Heresy - be happy you have a Primarch you can actually use in your games.
Yodhrin wrote: As far as I'm concerned, literally nobody gets to moan about their Primarchs being underpowered or whatever, because at least FW didn't start this entire shindig literally at the moment in the background when yours was(newly, remember in the old fluff he was just "missing" like Vulkan, who somehow came out of that state as being literally unkillable...*eyebrow*) unceremoniously fething beheaded.
One book. We got one damn campaign book with Ferrus as an actual thing, and going forward the Iron Hands, as well as apparently never getting our own Heresy novel, will only even be mentioned as part of this "Shattered Legions" thing, where the Heresy writers both FW and BL have decided we have to be "fixed" by learning how to fight like Salamanders and Raven Guard.
So yeah, complaining your Primarch is marginally less effective in close combat against another is, IMO, the First World Problems of the Heresy - be happy you have a Primarch you can actually use in your games.
Nice one, except I don't play Imperial Fists and I'm not even really a fan of Rogal Dorn. Speaking from a strictly rules-based perspective, I'm saying that the profile he has is really disappointing compared to what I imagine he should be whereas I can't really say that of any of the other Primarchs personally.
Also, there's nothing stopping you from using Ferrus in your games unless you are explicitly playing a post Istvaan campaign game where your group rules he isn't allowed for fluff reasons, or am I missing something?
As has been discussed, WS (along with BA, DA, and maybe SW and TS) will get some rules in the next book to tide them over until they get their full treatment.
Regarding primarchs...they're all PDG and capable. They have differing points values, and the game itself isn't about primarch duels (which also could swing wildly based on just a few lucky/unlucky rolls), so these simulations aren't worth much other than as a just-for-fun exercise.
gorgon wrote: As has been discussed, WS (along with BA, DA, and maybe SW and TS) will get some rules in the next book to tide them over until they get their full treatment.
Regarding primarchs...they're all PDG and capable. They have differing points values, and the game itself isn't about primarch duels (which also could swing wildly based on just a few lucky/unlucky rolls), so these simulations aren't worth much other than as a just-for-fun exercise.
Space Wolves and Thousand Sons have been confirmed not to make their appearance in Book 6, they are being saved for Prospero.
Again, I don't think Dorn is terrible, I just find his rules to be disappointing. It's mostly because his two weapons don't seem to make any sense - an Unwieldy weapon with no Strength bonus and a salvo bolter that prevents him from charging, contrary to all the other Primarchs. Trying to say any specific Primarch isn't worth their points is really difficult as different Legions play so differently from each other and each individual Primarch buffs their Legions in specific ways that might not have really obvious benefits. A good example of this is Fulgrim; the +2 to combat resolution seems kinda "meh", but combine it with the Emperors' Children big bonuses to making Sweeping Advances and it becomes pretty clear why he provides that bonus. Dorn is perfectly fine, I just expected more...."ooomph" out of him, he just feels very middle of the road if that makes any sense. His rules are the only ones that don't grab me in any way; for example, I love Mortarion's teleporting and durability, while Corax can Vector Strike and is essentially built to run around the battlefield causing havoc by himself. I just don't find anything exciting about Dorn and it is really unfortunate!
The funny thing about the Primarch duels is that they really are just for fun seeing as rushing two opposing Primarchs at each other in a game is usually an awful idea as even though one might win, by the time the two actually make it into combat the game will probably end before they kill each other! It's also amusing seeing as Rogal Dorn is one of the weakest in the Primarch duels, yet he's superior to someone like Perturabo - one of the top 1v1 Primarch duelists - in general close combat terms by far. I only consider it a tiny part of how I measure the competitive worth of a Primarch as it will almost never make a difference, about the only thing you can extrapolate from them is how a Primarch might fare against some of the super tough characters/gargantuan creatures in 40K. Take Alpharius for example; he'll bounce off things like Ta'unars, but he'll utterly monster a D-Thirster. Contrast that to Vulkan who should utterly destroy a Ta'unar or even a Hierophant with his many Strength 10 AP1 Initiative 5 Instant Death attacks, but who stands a very real chance of being slain by the aforementioned D-Thirster in a battle of simultaneous death. The only reason I mentioned Dorn's performance in those 1v1 duels is that I think it just doesn't "jive" with his background and it just seems to add to the other reasons I dislike his rules. If nothing else, it is "cool" to see them fight each other and see who would win - in essence helping us fan-children finally work out the "who would win scenarios" we all play out on forums - even if it probably isn't that exciting to actually play out
gorgon wrote: As has been discussed, WS (along with BA, DA, and maybe SW and TS) will get some rules in the next book to tide them over until they get their full treatment.
Regarding primarchs...they're all PDG and capable. They have differing points values, and the game itself isn't about primarch duels (which also could swing wildly based on just a few lucky/unlucky rolls), so these simulations aren't worth much other than as a just-for-fun exercise.
Space Wolves and Thousand Sons have been confirmed not to make their appearance in Book 6, they are being saved for Prospero.
Again, I don't think Dorn is terrible, I just find his rules to be disappointing. It's mostly because his two weapons don't seem to make any sense - an Unwieldy weapon with no Strength bonus and a salvo bolter that prevents him from charging, contrary to all the other Primarchs. Trying to say any specific Primarch isn't worth their points is really difficult as different Legions play so differently from each other and each individual Primarch buffs their Legions in specific ways that might not have really obvious benefits. A good example of this is Fulgrim; the +2 to combat resolution seems kinda "meh", but combine it with the Emperors' Children big bonuses to making Sweeping Advances and it becomes pretty clear why he provides that bonus. Dorn is perfectly fine, I just expected more...."ooomph" out of him, he just feels very middle of the road if that makes any sense. His rules are the only ones that don't grab me in any way; for example, I love Mortarion's teleporting and durability, while Corax can Vector Strike and is essentially built to run around the battlefield causing havoc by himself. I just don't find anything exciting about Dorn and it is really unfortunate!
The funny thing about the Primarch duels is that they really are just for fun seeing as rushing two opposing Primarchs at each other in a game is usually an awful idea as even though one might win, by the time the two actually make it into combat the game will probably end before they kill each other! It's also amusing seeing as Rogal Dorn is one of the weakest in the Primarch duels, yet he's superior to someone like Perturabo - one of the top 1v1 Primarch duelists - in general close combat terms by far. I only consider it a tiny part of how I measure the competitive worth of a Primarch as it will almost never make a difference, about the only thing you can extrapolate from them is how a Primarch might fare against some of the super tough characters/gargantuan creatures in 40K. Take Alpharius for example; he'll bounce off things like Ta'unars, but he'll utterly monster a D-Thirster. Contrast that to Vulkan who should utterly destroy a Ta'unar or even a Hierophant with his many Strength 10 AP1 Initiative 5 Instant Death attacks, but who stands a very real chance of being slain by the aforementioned D-Thirster in a battle of simultaneous death. The only reason I mentioned Dorn's performance in those 1v1 duels is that I think it just doesn't "jive" with his background and it just seems to add to the other reasons I dislike his rules. If nothing else, it is "cool" to see them fight each other and see who would win - in essence helping us fan-children finally work out the "who would win scenarios" we all play out on forums - even if it probably isn't that exciting to actually play out
Try running fists in the castelan foc, then see how dorn makes your army insanely resilient.
Formosa wrote: Try running fists in the castelan foc, then see how dorn makes your army insanely resilient.
Oh I know, don't worry. It's much like taking a Pride of the Legion list with Perturabo, that stuff is just mean!
Back on topic....
I can't wait to see Corax, he'll be the first winged Primarch we've seen so far. Do we have any ideas of what Forge World is releasing soon otherwise though? I recall there was that rumored Tau VS AdMech Imperial Armor book but with the Doom of Mymeara only just being redone I can't see that coming any time soon.
Formosa wrote: Try running fists in the castelan foc, then see how dorn makes your army insanely resilient.
Oh I know, don't worry. It's much like taking a Pride of the Legion list with Perturabo, that stuff is just mean!
Back on topic....
I can't wait to see Corax, he'll be the first winged Primarch we've seen so far. Do we have any ideas of what Forge World is releasing soon otherwise though? I recall there was that rumored Tau VS AdMech Imperial Armor book but with the Doom of Mymeara only just being redone I can't see that coming any time soon.
Corax also had wings?? I thought Sanguinius was the only one?
On topic of Alpharius: I expect that his model will be in some form of ceremonial armor - I know AL is supposed to all look the same, but they also have to (presumably) have some form of ceremonial armor. I mean, even Dynat is all fancied-up! There's also one short story - in "The Primarchs" I think - where Omegon and several Alpha Legionnaires are going after an operative, and they all have some sort of holo-cloaking devices that makes them look like normal humans in clothing, rather than power-armored marines. It would be cool though if Alpharius came with a more normal-sized marine figure, maybe with only slight AL-type scales/embellishments on the armor, to represent his "hidden" form.
Yodhrin wrote: As far as I'm concerned, literally nobody gets to moan about their Primarchs being underpowered or whatever, because at least FW didn't start this entire shindig literally at the moment in the background when yours was(newly, remember in the old fluff he was just "missing" like Vulkan, who somehow came out of that state as being literally unkillable...*eyebrow*) unceremoniously fething beheaded.
One book. We got one damn campaign book with Ferrus as an actual thing, and going forward the Iron Hands, as well as apparently never getting our own Heresy novel, will only even be mentioned as part of this "Shattered Legions" thing, where the Heresy writers both FW and BL have decided we have to be "fixed" by learning how to fight like Salamanders and Raven Guard.
So yeah, complaining your Primarch is marginally less effective in close combat against another is, IMO, the First World Problems of the Heresy - be happy you have a Primarch you can actually use in your games.
Also, there's nothing stopping you from using Ferrus in your games unless you are explicitly playing a post Istvaan campaign game where your group rules he isn't allowed for fluff reasons, or am I missing something?
@Yodhrin, if that's seriously the case then you should chat with your group about letting you use Ferrus' more. Most 30K games I see still allow for players to use characters even if they are dead, the narrative driven post-Istvaan campaigns that disallow Ferrus aren't that common AFAIK. That sounds more like your group is being unfair to you then.
The Rapid Onslaught Force includes a Thunderhawk gunship; twenty Space Marines in MkIII ‘Iron Armour’; twenty Umbra Ferrox pattern bolters; a Relic Contemptor Dreadnought; a Contemptor pattern close combat fist; and a Contemptor pattern Heavy Bolter.
The Boarding Assault Force includes a Caestus Assault Ram and ten Legion MkIII Breacher Siege Marines armed with boarding shields and Phobos pattern bolters as well as two optional lascutters; two breaching charges; and two graviton guns.
This bundle includes a Spartan Assault Tank and a compliment of ten space Marines in Tartaros pattern Terminator armour, armed with power fists, power swords, storm bolters, heavy flamers and optional chainfist attachments.
I may have missed the conversation, but how do these work with both resin and plastic marines? are they redoing all the resin marines without hands? I mean it's great that their working with Calth, but kinda crappy unless you LOVE MK IV. Also, their no longer selling MK IV and non-legion MK III, so updates or just "go use calth or the other kind of MK III?"
Brennonjw wrote: I may have missed the conversation, but how do these work with both resin and plastic marines? are they redoing all the resin marines without hands? I mean it's great that their working with Calth, but kinda crappy unless you LOVE MK IV. Also, their no longer selling MK IV and non-legion MK III, so updates or just "go use calth or the other kind of MK III?"
The Assault & Despoiler squads already have separate hands, so hopefully the 'normal'ones are next. They're dropping the older, non-Legion versions of the Armour packs.
Brennonjw wrote: I may have missed the conversation, but how do these work with both resin and plastic marines? are they redoing all the resin marines without hands? I mean it's great that their working with Calth, but kinda crappy unless you LOVE MK IV. Also, their no longer selling MK IV and non-legion MK III, so updates or just "go use calth or the other kind of MK III?"
The Assault & Despoiler squads already have separate hands, so hopefully the 'normal'ones are next.
They're dropping the older, non-Legion versions of the Armour packs.
Yeah, well, maybe I'm impatient/cranky that all my handless bits are now a bit useless And yeah, I spoke to soon on the armor marks
Why oh why did they put the non-Legion Tartaros terminators in that bundle? Are they trying to sell off stock so they can just have the Legion ones and nothing else?
Erren wrote: Why oh why did they put the non-Legion Tartaros terminators in that bundle? Are they trying to sell off stock so they can just have the Legion ones and nothing else?
Possibly because it was easier, as those sets come with weapons?
So are we looking at another MK armor release from GW sometime soon? If they are trying to dump off non-legion armor it makes sense to think GW will be attempting to take on non-legion style armor. All of the BaC armor is non-legion.
They pumped out those weapon updates really fast.
I feel like plastic MK3 could be fairly likely in the near future. With possibly boarding shielding included.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are we looking at another MK armor release from GW sometime soon? If they are trying to dump off non-legion armor it makes sense to think GW will be attempting to take on non-legion style armor. All of the BaC armor is non-legion.
They pumped out those weapon updates really fast.
I feel like plastic MK3 could be fairly likely in the near future. With possibly boarding shielding included.
If they do 10 boarding marines for £30 I'd be happy.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are we looking at another MK armor release from GW sometime soon? If they are trying to dump off non-legion armor it makes sense to think GW will be attempting to take on non-legion style armor. All of the BaC armor is non-legion.
They pumped out those weapon updates really fast.
I feel like plastic MK3 could be fairly likely in the near future. With possibly boarding shielding included.
How are they non legion in calth? the non-legion Marks had the aquilla on it, none of the calth stuff has aquillas
BrotherGecko wrote: So are we looking at another MK armor release from GW sometime soon? If they are trying to dump off non-legion armor it makes sense to think GW will be attempting to take on non-legion style armor. All of the BaC armor is non-legion.
They pumped out those weapon updates really fast.
I feel like plastic MK3 could be fairly likely in the near future. With possibly boarding shielding included.
How are they non legion in calth? the non-legion Marks had the aquilla on it, none of the calth stuff has aquillas
The non-legion mk4 has no markings on it. The legion mk4 has legion era markings on it.
BaC has no markings of any kind specific to era so its non-legion style.
Sorry, but those are actually Alpha Legionnaires in disguise!
Scary thought: FW decides to make a Goto-pattern Land Raider twin Multi-Lazors sponsons and a twin Multi-Lazor turret... Then Ward does the rules for it.
Yeah the non legion sets had one arm pose and 2 leg poses in the set, while the legion sets had 5 arm poses and 5 leg poses in the set, as well as some extra detail on the models like different heads and rivets and stuff.
The kit in the bundle is the version with Cruz Terminatii on the shoulder pads though. Requires filing off if you are so inclined (which I am, I got them because they were cheaper for 5 with the load-out I wanted). As it happens, all current Terminator patterns including the plastic GW Indomitus pattern Terminators are Heresy era, it is just the Crux Terminatus on the shoulders which is the issue. Well, and the Aquilas for those traitorous scum out there, or for less honoured veterans...
Weren't aquilas pretty damn rare even among veterans in most legions? I can't see some unit of 1Ksons termies for example running around with an aquila on their chest each, from what I recall from the novels.
Caederes wrote: @Yodhrin, if that's seriously the case then you should chat with your group about letting you use Ferrus' more. Most 30K games I see still allow for players to use characters even if they are dead, the narrative driven post-Istvaan campaigns that disallow Ferrus aren't that common AFAIK. That sounds more like your group is being unfair to you then.
It's nothing to do with them being unfair to me, the whole reason I joined the group in the first place was the high proportion of fluff gamers like myself who enjoy narrative campaigns. I could probably arrange some meaningless(story wise) Battle for Planet Bowling Ball matchup and use Ferrus if I wanted to, but then why bother playing Heresy? And if I did that, that's a whole game night we could have been playing a campaign game, so I'm asking someone else in the group to give up their night of entertainment to indulge me, just so I can use my Primarch - that seems selfish to me. My point stands, because none of the other Legions have to bother considering stuff like this.
Let's be honest, though. Whether it's the older fluff, where his fate was unknown for certain, but he DID disappear and play no further role in the Heresy, or the current fluff, which is at least 8 years old at this point and he was beheaded, you chose the legion with the dead or absent primarch. What is forgeworld to do, bring him back just so that the IH players out there can soothe their feels at not being able to include a primarch in most battles?
shade1313 wrote: Let's be honest, though. Whether it's the older fluff, where his fate was unknown for certain, but he DID disappear and play no further role in the Heresy, or the current fluff, which is at least 8 years old at this point and he was beheaded, you chose the legion with the dead or absent primarch. What is forgeworld to do, bring him back just so that the IH players out there can soothe their feels at not being able to include a primarch in most battles?
shade1313 wrote: Let's be honest, though. Whether it's the older fluff, where his fate was unknown for certain, but he DID disappear and play no further role in the Heresy, or the current fluff, which is at least 8 years old at this point and he was beheaded, you chose the legion with the dead or absent primarch. What is forgeworld to do, bring him back just so that the IH players out there can soothe their feels at not being able to include a primarch in most battles?
shade1313 wrote: Let's be honest, though. Whether it's the older fluff, where his fate was unknown for certain, but he DID disappear and play no further role in the Heresy, or the current fluff, which is at least 8 years old at this point and he was beheaded, you chose the legion with the dead or absent primarch. What is forgeworld to do, bring him back just so that the IH players out there can soothe their feels at not being able to include a primarch in most battles?
What, you mean like Vulkan, the other "missing" Primarch in the older fluff, who was not only brought back(twice) in the new version but was made immortal? I'm not ragging on FW for the decisions of the BL guys who, like the main GW studio, seemingly lack anyone who gives even the slightest, tiniest gak about the Iron Hands and so are happy to use them as a punching bag or plot device for the benefit of the other Legions, they were the ones who decided that Ferrus would be unambiguously killed off in the very first actual conflict of the Heresy and that we wouldn't even get our own novel as compensation. My comment was aimed at players who moan that their Primarch is incrementally less capable in close combat than another Primarch - the point being, be thankful you* get an effing Primarch you can use and stop yer complainin'.
*plural, nonspecific.
EDIT: And I didn't choose anything mate, I've been playing Iron Hands in one form or another since the 3rd Edition IA article was in White Dwarf, and the new Heresy fluff is just one wet steamy turd in a long line of wet steamy turds GW has flung at them.
And like I said, I don't play Imperial Fists. My opinion - coming from a neutral perspective - is that Dorns' rules are disappointing, and I wasn't restricting that opinion to just his melee capabilities as you infer. You're the one that jumped down my throat for offering this opinion. I do apologize for going way off topic in this thread and I do feel sorry for you obviously as not being able to use your Primarch in your group would no doubt be frustrating.
On topic, those Rotor Cannons look awesome! May have to get some for my eventual Blood Angel army.
You can use your primarch, only thing stopping you is your game group. What is the point of playing the campaign if you aren't writing an alternate history to see how the heresy would go with your group in command of the battles?
If he did die first game for you, that stinks. But it certainly isn't forgeworld's fault.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: You can use your primarch, only thing stopping you is your game group. What is the point of playing the campaign if you aren't writing an alternate history to see how the heresy would go with your group in command of the battles?
If he did die first game for you, that stinks. But it certainly isn't forgeworld's fault.
So, you didn't bother learning to read in school then?
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: You can use your primarch, only thing stopping you is your game group. What is the point of playing the campaign if you aren't writing an alternate history to see how the heresy would go with your group in command of the battles?
If he did die first game for you, that stinks. But it certainly isn't forgeworld's fault.
So, you didn't bother learning to read in school then?
I read just fine. If someone wants to play the missions to their exact forgone conclusion they CANNOT be upset when they buy a model for a character they knew would die.
If nobody died till the last book, nothing would matter before it, that would make for a very crappy storyline. Also, it is a bit annoying that more primarch DIDN'T die. The whole "missing until needed" trope is lame and overused.
Also, as much as Vulkan is immortal, he never rejoins his legion in a fighting not-crazy state. So i dunno.
ON TOPIC - I'm glad those weapon options got pushed out so fast, further encouragement to grab a BaC box set. If plastic Mk III ever comes out, my Iron Warriors quickly become large enough to know the true meaning of acceptable losses
Jpogfreak886 wrote: Also, as much as Vulkan is immortal, he never rejoins his legion in a fighting not-crazy state. So i dunno.
ON TOPIC - I'm glad those weapon options got pushed out so fast, further encouragement to grab a BaC box set. If plastic Mk III ever comes out, my Iron Warriors quickly become large enough to know the true meaning of acceptable losses
Spoiler:
As of the end of the book Deathfire, he is alive.
Also quite fond of the new bundles! May pick that boarding assault one up right quick!
The 'Legion' power armour sets weren't actually intended to be heresy specific, they were just updated sculpts with better poses and a bit more detail that initially replaced the original sculpts, the MkIV however was a *big* issue however: Among other things they completely changed the backpack from a copy of the 1st edition MkVI pack to a copy of the 1st edition MkVII pack, which had a lot of people spitting blood as it's kind of in your face as you watch your men advance across the table.. so they put the old sets back into production and released the newer sculpts with the first name they could think of.. which was 'legion'.
Jpogfreak886 wrote: Also, as much as Vulkan is immortal, he never rejoins his legion in a fighting not-crazy state. So i dunno.
As of the end of the book Deathfire, he is alive.
Haha damn it, as I was thinking about it, I was asking myself "I wonder what happened in that last book, where they try and retrieve him..."
I stand corrected, but i do agree it sucks that a Primarch died before the full extent of the heresy unfolded. I still wouldn't let it affect what i bring to that extent.
I am curious to see how Dorn turns out as a model, his rules do seem a little lack luster, and his "signature weapons" aren't nearly as cool as some of the other Primarchs'... he's essentially just a True-Scale Marine among baby marines.
I don't think it's a melta weapon, the exhausts on the barrels don't match up to those of existing melta weaponry. These are vertical, where as all other melta weapons have horizontal exhausts or whatever the official term is for those grooves in the barrel.
I think it's something along the lines of an autocannon or the likes myself.
So we've already got an autocannon-type weapon (the Leviathan storm cannon) and the Grav-flux bombard, so we could do with an anti light infantry weapon (or something for killing super-heavies).
I want one so bad for my Iron Warriors, and thankfully i hadn't seen one painted up yet. Now... i realize how much i REALLY want one. Also, Iron Circle models please? or at least some unique IW model. Although I guess IWs getting shafted is just FW's way of adhering to the fluff...
It can also be equipped with a phosphex mortar, which is a barrage weapon and therefore unusable in Zones Mortalis. It is definitely intended as a siege unit and not as a Zones Mortalis unit as the other Dreadnoughts are (especially the Castraferrum pattern).
So what can you look forward to at Games Workshop’s Fantastic 40th Birthday Party?
Be one of the first to get amazing pre-release Forge World models.
New t-shirts for both the Forge World and Citadel ranges.
New art prints to purchase, including some classic and iconic images from the last 40 years.
Gaming area to join in with both new and old favourites.
Have a go at digital games like Talisman, Xenos, Freeblade and more.
Fast and fun hobby challenges, including Scrap Demon.
Team up and take on our special Birthday quiz.
And it wouldn’t be a celebration without free cake and party nibbles!
For these two days only, your free ticket give you entry to the Exhibition Centre.
Of course, you’ll also be able to enjoy all of Warhammer World’s usual facilities and services, with the stores, Bugman’s Bar and the Exhibition Centre.
We’ll be announcing more over the next few weeks, so keep watching for updates!
Yaraton wrote: I want the AL one, no idea what is the second one supposed be. SW? Dark Mechanicum?
There's the DM Magos who has a wolf skull head, so probably DarkMech.
I've always wondered the lack of merchandise with GW. They run a relatively well-known IP that's ripe for selling out á la George Lucas, yet the only thing we get is coffee mugs based on.. Citadel colors?
I'm just imagining that conversation at the GWHQ.. "Let's see.. we could jump on the merch bandwagon, like, could put out a few coffee mugs.. what should we put on them? Space Marines? Sigmarines? Some of the cool SM Chapter logos? Primarchs? The Imperial aquila? Evil Necrons or savage Ork stuff? Bolters and chainswords? No, wait.. I think I got it.. how about.. coffee mugs about PAINT COLORS! Yeah that's where it's at! And after that, we'll put out some T-shirts featuring the classic Citadel Mould Line Scraper - maybe in hot pink!"
prowla wrote: No, wait.. I think I got it.. how about.. coffee mugs about PAINT COLORS! Yeah that's where it's at! And after that, we'll put out some T-shirts featuring the classic Citadel Mould Line Scraper - maybe in hot pink!" [/i]
At the prices that the coffee mugs are, they'd have to be 6-color process with awesome artwork, and then you'd never use them for fear of rubbing off the awesome artwork. I don't really think the mugs would sell any better if they said Ultramarines and Blood Angels instead of Maccragge Blue and Mephiston Red
Haighus wrote: It can also be equipped with a phosphex mortar, which is a barrage weapon and therefore unusable in Zones Mortalis. It is definitely intended as a siege unit and not as a Zones Mortalis unit as the other Dreadnoughts are (especially the Castraferrum pattern).
Wouldn't it have the option to direct fire like most barrage weapons?
I'm not a fan of the new shirts, they look a bit like Affliction shirts that used to be fashionable with MMA fans a while ago.
Always amazed me that they don't do an annual print run of shirts, bags, and dice every Christmas for the main factions. Keep it true limited edition so they aren't left with a ton of stock and can keep the margin high.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I don't wear anything outside my work outfit and band t-shirts, yet I'd wear a Necron symbol one if it were made available, no questions asked.
Going barefoot and commando... nice! You must live in a warm climate. I do like the Alpha Legion t-shirt. Is the hydra eating the aquila a new design theme for them or something that has been around for a while? I know obviously about the hydra but it's the first time I've seen that combo persoanlly.
This Mk VI armour spotted on Forgeworld - I've not seen that before. New Resin Legion Mk VI armour incoming perhaps? Or just a plastic one I don't remember seeing
That MKII helmet isn't a combination I'd seen before either.
Oh and check out the purity seal on the MKVI marine ( lower leg, his right) - FW doesn't do those on heresy era models, do they? I thought PS were a post-heresy thing anyway, or did UM dabble in those in M.30?
It does look molded on (see how it drapes over the foot) but it looks a little too neatly/sharply undercut to be plastic, though that might be a combination of the paintjob and a favourable angle, of course.
Which pair of mkVI legs comes with that rather crisp purity seal and those studs high up on the greaves though? Honest question; I really haven't purchased a single 40k plastic kit in three or four years so I might have missed something, but the latter is something I hadn't seen anywhere yet.
I know you can get a full set of Mk. VI in plastic from the tactical marine box. Not sure if the seal is from there, mine are all built and dispersed to the shelf.
I think they're just from the tactical box yeah. There's a few pairs of MkVI legs in there and at least one has those studs, can't make out from the photo if it has the purity seal too but I'm guessing that's where it's from.
Bolognesus wrote: That MKII helmet isn't a combination I'd seen before either.
Oh and check out the purity seal on the MKVI marine ( lower leg, his right) - FW doesn't do those on heresy era models, do they? I thought PS were a post-heresy thing anyway, or did UM dabble in those in M.30?
It does look molded on (see how it drapes over the foot) but it looks a little too neatly/sharply undercut to be plastic, though that might be a combination of the paintjob and a favourable angle, of course.
I think the purity seals in 30k are basically just Oaths of Moment instead.
The Deimos Pattern Damocles Command Rhino can be taken in any Legiones Astartes army, its rules can be found in The Horus Heresy Book Five – Tempest. It can also be taken in Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Dark Angels, and Codex: Space Wolves armies using the rules found in Imperial Armour Volume Two – War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes.
This set contains thirty resin components - everything you need to upgrade a full ten man squad of Tactical Space Marines with the armour of your Legion, or to spread throughout your army. It includes; ten Thousand Sons Legion Heads; ten Thousand Sons Legion Torsos; and ten Thousand Sons Legion Mk IV Shoulder Pads.
£44
Also available as seperate kits are the heads, torsos and marks II, III, IV shoulder pads. Finally the task force, includes Calith boxset and 3 upgrade kits.
The Red Scorpions Vanguard Veteran Upgrade Set includes Veteran Sergeant Culln with optional helmeted and unhelmeted heads, and enough torsos, jump packs and shoulder pads to upgrade any resin or plastic Space Marines to make four Red Scorpions Vanguard Veterans.
Thinking again, a Reaver with maxed out D in the form of 2 laser blasters and a turbo blaster would make short work of it. Yes its more points but the Reaver is far more versatile than the Ordinatus, which is very dependent on the opponents setup for mass removal.
