How many models come with the base game?
Kind of curious that each gang only has 4 minis teased.
Will each gang get multiple copies of the same sprues or are we supposed to build gangs of 4 members each?
I don't think anything has been said about the number of minis included... although it's only 2 of each gang shown so far, not 4.
10 years ago, I would have said that it was likely there would be duplicates on the sprues, simply because that's how GW did their starter sets. Based on their more recent offerings, though, I would guess we're looking at 8-10 unique models for each gang.
Blood Bowl '16 had 6 unique sculpts x 2 for each team if I remember rightly.
But I guess you have to have more modularity for a game that used to (who knows about the upcoming) rely on customized model load-outs.
I thought there were 4 of each gang but I hadn't looked close enough at the photos of the bare minis.
argonak wrote: The GSC and IG kits will be great for mixing and matching with some of the Hivers.
In fact, I really hope they include GSC as a gang. Chaos cultists too. Goliaths always seemed like prime khorne worshipers to me anyway.
The thing I'm looking for in a GW human miniature is the ability to use the bits for conversions. I love Inq28 and when things can mix and match well, I'm far, far more likely to buy them. Being an Inq28 person, I was super happy about Shadow War Armageddon and even more happy about an actual Necromunda, but if it turns out that the figures won't match my small existing collection nor will any parts be available for conversions because of size differences I'm going to give the product a pass.
---
To those who take exception to people caring about scale, what I said above: it's not rage nor is it me losing my mind about scale or being "that fething guy." It's just a simple evaluation of a product.
Who would have thought the characteristics of miniatures being important in a miniature game would be so hard for people to handle?
Breotan wrote: The question is, what size is that base? Once we have that, we'll know how the models actually compare.
They said in the beginning of this thread that the Goliaths were on 32MM bases. That means that these guys are around the same size as the AOS Blood Reavers.
I plan on using the Dark Vengeance cultists as my Orlocks. I just need to figure out how to separate my gangers and juves since the DV guys don't lend themselves to obvious distinction.
"Working of John Blanche original sketch book for more awesome stuff. Release should be November slot. First 6 gangs release schedule sorted.
Oh that, can they just retire him and never ever use his art as inspiration ever again? his vision is what ruined the elegance of 40k and turned it into the "grimdark" visual waste it is today.
His vision was stellar in Mordheim, but nowhere else.
Heresy.
One of the things that sold me into the universe.
Less so Grilyma and his ragtag band of supermen for example.
Mary Sue, Blanche was not.
Breotan wrote: The question is, what size is that base? Once we have that, we'll know how the models actually compare.
They said in the beginning of this thread that the Goliaths were on 32MM bases. That means that these guys are around the same size as the AOS Blood Reavers.
I plan on using the Dark Vengeance cultists as my Orlocks. I just need to figure out how to separate my gangers and juves since the DV guys don't lend themselves to obvious distinction.
argonak wrote: The GSC and IG kits will be great for mixing and matching with some of the Hivers.
In fact, I really hope they include GSC as a gang. Chaos cultists too. Goliaths always seemed like prime khorne worshipers to me anyway.
The thing I'm looking for in a GW human miniature is the ability to use the bits for conversions. I love Inq28 and when things can mix and match well, I'm far, far more likely to buy them. Being an Inq28 person, I was super happy about Shadow War Armageddon and even more happy about an actual Necromunda, but if it turns out that the figures won't match my small existing collection nor will any parts be available for conversions because of size differences I'm going to give the product a pass.
---
To those who take exception to people caring about scale, what I said above: it's not rage nor is it me losing my mind about scale or being "that fething guy." It's just a simple evaluation of a product.
Who would have thought the characteristics of miniatures being important in a miniature game would be so hard for people to handle?
They'll mix perfectly well with modern GW stuff. They'll be a bit bigger than the 20 year old originals.
As was always going to be the case with a modern re imagining
argonak wrote: In fact, I really hope they include GSC as a gang.
I hope they don't. Your average gang leader wants a comfy gig collecting protection money while they wile away the days on booze, gambling and hookers. A genestealer cult leader's goal is to call a Hive Fleet to eat everybody and the planet they're standing on. It's an existential threat that demands to shape a campaign, which kind of spoils the tone for anyone looking for regular Necromunda.
argonak wrote: In fact, I really hope they include GSC as a gang.
I hope they don't. Your average gang leader wants a comfy gig collecting protection money while they wile away the days on booze, gambling and hookers. A genestealer cult leader's goal is to call a Hive Fleet to eat everybody and the planet they're standing on. It's an existential threat that demands to shape a campaign, which kind of spoils the tone for anyone looking for regular Necromunda.
From what came out of the open day, they are looking at exploring Hive Secundus which was infested by the cult, blown up and toppled on to its side.
So it sounds like you could have a "normal" campaign in Primus or a GS cult survival type campaign in Secundus
And this comment shows exactly why people need to account for everything before making pronouncements, because guess how big Greyfax is once you account for her stilettos...?
~30mm to the eye.
Guess how big Scions are when you account for their pose...?
~30mm to the eye.
GSC? You get the idea.
Are you sure?
They're sitting on my desk right now and I have a ruler, so aye pretty sure. Measure Greyfax in her fully-upright pose from a point on her feet that pretends they are flats, and measure any of the recent plastic "normal human" kits in a way that accounts for their pose, they come out around 30mm to the eye. You're looking at comparison pics and the relative bulk and differing pose confuses the eye.
EDIT:
As to GS cult, I will be super happy if they include them and Hive Secundus. One of the best things about Mordheim is that it became more than just one city, it was a vehicle for exploring the Warhammer World in the more human scale you normally only get to see in RPGs rather than wargames, so I'd love it if they take us beyond Hive Primus and explore totally wierd new places and even some familiar ones - vehicle-based gangs in the ash wastes, surviving the GSCult-infested ruins of Secundus, maybe the return of a reworked version of Palatine Hive with the Confrontation-style gangs? Awesome.
AlexHolker wrote: I hope they don't. Your average gang leader wants a comfy gig collecting protection money while they wile away the days on booze, gambling and hookers. A genestealer cult leader's goal is to call a Hive Fleet to eat everybody and the planet they're standing on. It's an existential threat that demands to shape a campaign, which kind of spoils the tone for anyone looking for regular Necromunda.
Nah man, Genestealer Cult gangs are fun.
Having them and Chaos Cults in the game (not immediately, but eventually) will be wonderful, especially with the miniature support both have these days (less so for Chaos, but still).
Starfarer wrote: Why put female in quotes? Its pretty clearly a female.
Don't look for motive or meaning that isn't present. That's foolish.
Starfarer wrote: I equated it to the "Celestine is too fat" posts from a few months ago.
When the entire body is larger as well, and it appears that a similar model comes up to the model's chin. That and the Goliaths are literally on bigger bases because they are bigger models. They're not in heels.
The scale change is unfortunate but not really surprising. If we look at the latest 40k and AOS releases they have ballooned in size, I cant use much of the chaos stuff from AOS in my 28mm chaos army for example.
Thinking about it, aren't they increasing the scale in the new Epic and BFG games too?
ulgurstasta wrote: The scale change is unfortunate but not really surprising. If we look at the latest 40k and AOS releases they have ballooned in size, I cant use much of the chaos stuff from AOS in my 28mm chaos army for example.
Thinking about it, aren't they increasing the scale in the new Epic and BFG games too?
This is becoming frustrating, because every time someone makes this error there's a chance you could put off a potential player - based on what we've seen, Necromunda is not in a new scale, it is in the same scale all GW releases have been in since Dark Vengeance in 2012 - human(~30mm to eyes), big human(~32-33mm to the eyes), and posthuman(~35-36mm to the eyes). This is something I was concerned about with AoS but they've remained remarkably consistent once you learn to account for pose, gear etc.
Escher look to be ~30mm to the eye, Goliath more like ~32mm.
People complaining about scale change will look silly when more of the models come out and you realize your concerns are unfounded. Even more silly than they look now.
Weve only seen 4 models and the two goliaths don't look out of scale, the only one people seem concerned with are the TWO models that are in HIGH HEELS. You think someone in high heel platform boots should be the same height as someone not on platforms?
People just took this idea and ran with it for miles not realizing that they don't have real evidence of a scale change. But contentious discontents will just be contentious discontents. If it wasn't this they'd find something else to be unhappy about.
Just wait till we see more before jumping to that conclusion or spreading unfounded fears like wildfire.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Anyway, I'm really excited to see how they redo all the gangs. I hope they can capture even more of a cyberpunk theme to the models, more futuristic leather jackets and trenchcoats. A new modern take maybe on the van saars futuristic and sleek body armor. Hopefully new sculpts for scumy derelict guys.
I bought Canoness Veridyan, held her next to an old metal Sister and decided never to use them in the same army. That's how off GW's old scale looks to the new one. I can totally understand anyone with an old Necromunda collection who doesn't look forward to the new models.
Personally I doubt the new models will look off next to other modern GW plastics. I'm mostly following Yodhrin's argumentation here (although I don't find it remarkable if GW manages some coherency - isn't that what CAD is for?). Once you account for poses and gear, you'll get a fairly consistent size. It would be nice if we could accept that people have valid concerns, though, even if we don't share them. Dismissing it as whining, hate or other such stuff doesn't help anything.
Anyway, I'm more concerned that the new Goliaths are three times as wide as a man. I doubt they'll fit through a door even sideways.
The new Eschers and Goliaths look interesting. The paint job is making it hard to tell how the Escher's look as far as their faces are concerned (GW's female models generally look like men in wigs). In addition, that arm cannon revolver/thingy is somewhat funny looking.
I am hoping to see some more makeshift equipment with the Necromunda gangs this time around and less of the standard 40k equivalents. Overall tentatively positive, definitely glad they're bringing the game back.
Accolade wrote: I am hoping to see some more makeshift equipment with the Necromunda gangs this time around and less of the standard 40k equivalents. Overall tentatively positive, definitely glad they're bringing the game back.
Necromunda manufactures quite a bit of that kit so it makes sense for some of it to end up in the gangs' hands. I did prefer the Van Saar's take on the basic weapons though.
Saw this pic on Twitter. Sorry if it has already been shared. It looks like the arms, the shoulder guard, the chest plate, the items hanging from his belt, the head, and the Mohawk are all seperate pieces. This should allow for a decent amount of customisation with these plastics.
Chikout wrote: Saw this pic on Twitter. Sorry if it has already been shared. It looks like the arms, the shoulder guard, the chest plate, the items hanging from his belt, the head, and the Mohawk are all seperate pieces. This should allow for a decent amount of customisation with these plastics.
Chikout wrote: Saw this pic on Twitter. Sorry if it has already been shared. It looks like the arms, the shoulder guard, the chest plate, the items hanging from his belt, the head, and the Mohawk are all seperate pieces. This should allow for a decent amount of customisation with these plastics.
The Goliath looks like he could be similar to the genestealer cults and skitarii kits. Torsos and legs are not interchangeable, but heads and arms are. The Escher with the pistol smacks of monopose though. Her torso is angled too realistically as she raises her arm to be anything but monopose.
I'm guessing that like other GW starters, we'll see monopose minis in the box, then multipose kits released afterwards.
Chikout wrote: Saw this pic on Twitter. Sorry if it has already been shared. It looks like the arms, the shoulder guard, the chest plate, the items hanging from his belt, the head, and the Mohawk are all seperate pieces. This should allow for a decent amount of customisation with these plastics.
The Goliath looks like he could be similar to the genestealer cults and skitarii kits. Torsos and legs are not interchangeable, but heads and arms are. The Escher with the pistol smacks of monopose though. Her torso is angled too realistically as she raises her arm to be anything but monopose.
I'm guessing that like other GW starters, we'll see monopose minis in the box, then multipose kits released afterwards.
Looks like a one piece body with separate arms and head on that Escher
Chikout wrote: Saw this pic on Twitter. Sorry if it has already been shared. It looks like the arms, the shoulder guard, the chest plate, the items hanging from his belt, the head, and the Mohawk are all seperate pieces. This should allow for a decent amount of customisation with these plastics.
Chikout wrote: Saw this pic on Twitter. Sorry if it has already been shared. It looks like the arms, the shoulder guard, the chest plate, the items hanging from his belt, the head, and the Mohawk are all seperate pieces. This should allow for a decent amount of customisation with these plastics.
The Goliath looks like he could be similar to the genestealer cults and skitarii kits. Torsos and legs are not interchangeable, but heads and arms are. The Escher with the pistol smacks of monopose though. Her torso is angled too realistically as she raises her arm to be anything but monopose.
I'm guessing that like other GW starters, we'll see monopose minis in the box, then multipose kits released afterwards.
So then why are they showing us multipose stuff for one gang and monopose stuff for another when both are in the starter? Plus they've already said the kits are multipose with lots of options. I would be willing to bet that the gangs in the starter are the same multipose kits that will be released later separately (the blood Bowl starter teams are the same as released later separately too). Plus, Necromunda needs options really.
Chikout wrote: Saw this pic on Twitter. Sorry if it has already been shared. It looks like the arms, the shoulder guard, the chest plate, the items hanging from his belt, the head, and the Mohawk are all seperate pieces. This should allow for a decent amount of customisation with these plastics.
The Goliath looks like he could be similar to the genestealer cults and skitarii kits. Torsos and legs are not interchangeable, but heads and arms are. The Escher with the pistol smacks of monopose though. Her torso is angled too realistically as she raises her arm to be anything but monopose.
I'm guessing that like other GW starters, we'll see monopose minis in the box, then multipose kits released afterwards.
So then why are they showing us multipose stuff for one gang and monopose stuff for another when both are in the starter? Plus they've already said the kits are multipose with lots of options. I would be willing to bet that the gangs in the starter are the same multipose kits that will be released later separately (the blood Bowl starter teams are the same as released later separately too). Plus, Necromunda needs options really.
Where did they "multipose"? I only saw them refer to them as "multipart" which is not the same thing. Some of the pieces look like they only fit one way, like the Sisters of Silence kit. I think many people are setting themselves up for disappointment when all implication is that there are a bunch of optional parts that ultimate fit one way, without modification.
Chikout wrote: Saw this pic on Twitter. Sorry if it has already been shared. It looks like the arms, the shoulder guard, the chest plate, the items hanging from his belt, the head, and the Mohawk are all seperate pieces. This should allow for a decent amount of customisation with these plastics.
The Goliath looks like he could be similar to the genestealer cults and skitarii kits. Torsos and legs are not interchangeable, but heads and arms are. The Escher with the pistol smacks of monopose though. Her torso is angled too realistically as she raises her arm to be anything but monopose.
I'm guessing that like other GW starters, we'll see monopose minis in the box, then multipose kits released afterwards.
So then why are they showing us multipose stuff for one gang and monopose stuff for another when both are in the starter? Plus they've already said the kits are multipose with lots of options. I would be willing to bet that the gangs in the starter are the same multipose kits that will be released later separately (the blood Bowl starter teams are the same as released later separately too). Plus, Necromunda needs options really.
Where did they "multipose"? I only saw them refer to them as "multipart" which is not the same thing. Some of the pieces look like they only fit one way, like the Sisters of Silence kit. I think many people are setting themselves up for disappointment when all implication is that there are a bunch of optional parts that ultimate fit one way, without modification.
Yeah, right now it's better to assume that the options really are weapon swaps and posability is minimal. The Escher with the pistol may have a different pistol hand or complete arm, or a pointing sword or however many other options GW puts on the sprue, but the walking, pointing arm foward pose isn't going to change.
Real posability like Marines doesn't work with so much exposed skin. They tried and failed with Catachans and Marauders. I would expect something along the lines of Witch Elves instead.
Tetsu0 wrote: People complaining about scale change will look silly when more of the models come out and you realize your concerns are unfounded. Even more silly than they look now.
So far we've seen 2 basic bodies for each of the 2 gangs... with Goliath its a bunch of different weapons that rely on the exact same distant between wrists making use of what so far appears to be fixed posed arms, with only one arm that appears to be a separate piece; we've seen 3 heads and a bunch of different little bits for them.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Oh that, can they just retire him and never ever use his art as inspiration ever again? his vision is what ruined the elegance of 40k and turned it into the "grimdark" visual waste it is today.
While I'm not a big fan of Blanche, he was there since the beginning of the game and his drawings were part of the basis of the 40K universe from the days of Rogue Trader. I don't think you can say he turned 40K from "elegance" to "grimdark". It was always "grimdark".
The original Necromunda included very basic rules for including a small range of aliens for scenarios, but they weren't really set up for use as a normal gang.
aka_mythos wrote: So far we've seen 2 basic bodies for each of the 2 gangs... with Goliath its a bunch of different weapons that rely on the exact same distant between wrists making use of what so far appears to be fixed posed arms, with only one arm that appears to be a separate piece; we've seen 3 heads and a bunch of different little bits for them.
I'd rather have less poses and more weapon options, weapon swaps would be fairly easy with sockets. Having enough alternative heads, helmets and other extra parts has worked to differentiate hundreds of space marines.
Yodhrin wrote:This is becoming frustrating, because every time someone makes this error there's a chance you could put off a potential player
That's GW's problem both to create and to solve. If they didn't want people wondering about scale and whether these will work with existing GW miniatures (be it old necromunda stuff or current GW plastics) they could have addressed that in the warhammer community site by 1) a comparison shot 2) not leading with the minaitures they did or 3) directly addressing it with text. Or GW might be intentionally trying to make them look as large as possible because they think that's awesome. Maybe GW wants people to finish reading the article with a sense that the miniatures are big?
Tetsu0 wrote:People complaining about scale change will look silly when more of the models come out and you realize your concerns are unfounded. Even more silly than they look now.
It doesn't actually matter if you think someone's concerns are silly. The end result is that people seeing the new miniature pictures are going "this doesn't look right." And when it comes to marketing, that's not on the viewer but on the marketer. Just like the purple skin making people be uncertain about whether the miniature is nice or not. Yep, it's entirely an aesthetic reaction.
Weve only seen 4 models and the two goliaths don't look out of scale, the only one people seem concerned with are the TWO models that are in HIGH HEELS. You think someone in high heel platform boots should be the same height as someone not on platforms?
I think it's a bad idea to market a game with miniatures that look off for any reason given how visually oriented a lot of potential customers are.
End result: me excited about necromunda coming back has turned into wait and see based on the miniatures shown so far. And I'm not alone. It doesn't matter how "silly" or "frustrating" or whatever anyone thinks that is. My guess is that GW wants people to think they're really huge. That the platform shoe miniature is supposed to be towering and the vat grown goliaths are supposed to be huge. So it's only natural that some portion of the potential customer base is going to see that and go "they may have gone too far."
It also doesn't really matter if you pull out digital calipers and then compensate for posing and declare they are a match for current GW plastics. Miniatures for a lot of people are about what feels right when they look at it. And if it feels off to them, then it's off.
People just took this idea and ran with it for miles not realizing that they don't have real evidence of a scale change. But contentious discontents will just be contentious discontents. If it wasn't this they'd find something else to be unhappy about.
Given that I returned to 40k after a decade or so and am super excited about inq28, SWA and necromunda, I must be a contentious discontent. It couldn't possibly be that people are expressing an honest aesthetic reaction to the preview pictures?
I will be very happy if as more pictures come out the figures look like they will be compatible in terms of conversions with other GW kit parts. But let's not pretend people are expressing concern out of some sort of character flaw. That's just immature.
The reason people are having concerns is that the images GW showed are causing them.
Tetsu0 wrote: People complaining about scale change will look silly when more of the models come out and you realize your concerns are unfounded.
And when those models are shown to be demonstrably larger and out of scale with the previous metals, presumably, you'll post a video of you literally eating your words or making some other ridiculous penance for trying to minimize the legitimate concerns of those who previously bought and own the 1st gen Necromunda models.
The original Necromunda included very basic rules for including a small range of aliens for scenarios, but they weren't really set up for use as a normal gang.
I'm sure people will come up with ways to integrate Necromunda and SW:A quickly enough.
The original Necromunda included very basic rules for including a small range of aliens for scenarios, but they weren't really set up for use as a normal gang.
I'm sure people will come up with ways to integrate Necromunda and SW:A quickly enough.
I was going to use some of the dark elder to make my own Spryer gang.
Tetsu0 wrote: People complaining about scale change will look silly when more of the models come out and you realize your concerns are unfounded.
And when those models are shown to be demonstrably larger and out of scale with the previous metals, presumably, you'll post a video of you literally eating your words or making some other ridiculous penance for trying to minimize the legitimate concerns of those who previously bought and own the 1st gen Necromunda models.
You are aware that no one is arguing the new minis are the same size as the metal minis? We're arguing they're the same size as modern human-sized minis.
Also @Chamberlain "scale" issues aside, I can't see how anyone can say these minis don't look gorgeous, especially when you see the bare plastic images that haven't been given that janky 'Eavy Metal paint job (Does GW seriously not realize how badly the current painting style distorts the model details?)
I have a 22-year-old Necro gang and I have absolutely no expectation that new shiny 2017 models would be at all beholden to old-enough-to-drink metal models in any way.
But that's me, I guess. Long live the new plastic!
I have a large necromunda collection myself. The idea that these would be larger to the point where they don't look right on the table next to the old models is not a concern for me.
There's been a small scale creep since 2nd edition till now in 40k. Which you have to at least account for, and is virtually negligible for me and I suspect other reasonable minded people. Note that primaris marines are an entirely conscious effort to scale up.
You really can't expect GW to go and match the 2nd edition metal figures exact scale. They are going to be in scale with current 40k humans and such.
So you would have to say you are not okay with how 2nd edition models look mixed with current edition models.
Also, I play Infinity, where they basically choose the model's size at a whim, it seems.
I can say from that experience that, as long as the models all look good, a 5mm-ish difference or whatever seems huge in front of my face or on a screen, yet is barely even noticeable on the battlefield.
So mainly my only concern these days is "does it look cool?"
So you would have to say you are not okay with how 2nd edition models look mixed with current edition models.
Semantics, really. The simple fact is that GW scaling has always been a bit hit and miss, but there's been a rather noticeable increase in size over the years, with the common theory being that it was to allow for more detail. It's frustrating for those of us that actually prefer things to be in scale, though, partly because it looks better when things are in scale, and partly because in a game that has rules that rely on the physical dimensions of the models, scale matters.
There was never any actual demonstrated need for GW to increase the size of their models, and lacking that, some people are going to see it as unnecessary and annoying.
faeslayer wrote: Also, I play Infinity, where they basically choose the model's size at a whim, it seems.
Funnily enough, I was all set to jump into Infinity when Icestorm was released... but IIRC that was about when new sculpts started showing up head-and-shoulders taller then the previous iterations, and that killed my interest.
Still, while I'll likely stick with the older models (or conversions of Kev White iKore sculpts) for my Eschers, it will be interesting to see what the other gangs look like, as I can probably deal with the scale differences for fleshing out the gangs that I don't have yet.
I never get this line of thinking.
"Wow, you made the models look better! How DARE you! Now my old ones look bad by comparison!"
Well. It's still a superior product. I say this for example, as someone who had a lot of Infinity. The new models are even more gorgeous, and slightly larger. Quite frankly, that's fine. They still fit in together at tabletop scale, and it works.
As for these necromunda models, they're fine. Goliath looks way cooler than before, and the Escher models are wearing huge heels and big hair anyway... even then, it's at most a 5-10% growth, well within human size differences.
Remember, abominations like the old Catachans are the old scale, and we should be glad to move away from that trash.
Killionaire wrote: I never get this line of thinking.
"Wow, you made the models look better! How DARE you! Now my old ones look bad by comparison!"
I'm not surprised, since nobody has said that.
Remember, abominations like the old Catachans are the old scale, and we should be glad to move away from that trash.
That's a result of bad sculpting, not scale. The Catachan heavy weapons and command models are proof that GWcould sculpt decent-looking plastic Catachans in the existing scale.
Killionaire wrote: I never get this line of thinking.
"Wow, you made the models look better! How DARE you! Now my old ones look bad by comparison!"
I'm not surprised, since nobody has said that.
Remember, abominations like the old Catachans are the old scale, and we should be glad to move away from that trash.
That's a result of bad sculpting, not scale. The Catachan heavy weapons and command models are proof that GWcould sculpt decent-looking plastic Catachans in the existing scale.
What, these guys? They still look like butt. Because the proportions are 80s heroic, a style that really looks terrible with modern techniques. Remember, Painting's come a long way too in methods and tools.
What, these guys? They still look like butt. Because the proportions are 80s heroic, a style that really looks terrible with modern techniques. Remember, Painting's come a long way too in methods and tools.
GW models are still 'heroic' scaled. The only thing that would be different if they made those Catachans today is that they would be bigger. And probably in fewer parts.
Killionaire wrote: Remember, abominations like the old Catachans are the old scale, and we should be glad to move away from that trash.
\
They really aren't at all the same scale as Necromunda. The plastic catachans and cadians represent a bit of scale creep that happened around the time of 3rd edition. Even plastic Cadians (that arent' as exagerated) are notably thicker and taller than Necromunda humans.
Original Necromunda figures are more in scale with 2ndEd/RT figures and necro figs were sculted a bit more slender even than many of those.
Tetsu0 wrote: So you would have to say you are not okay with how 2nd edition models look mixed with current edition models.
I, for one, am OK how 2E "human-sized" minis look with other 2E "human-sized" minis (e.g. Eldar, Guard, Necromunda). I am OK with how they look with the 3E Orks and 3E Space Marines.
I am not OK with how the 2E humans look with the giant plastic infantry.
Those 2nd ed models are literally 20 years old. They're utterly irrelevant to how any modern model should look. That's a completely nonsensical argument against this, when these look better than literally any human that GW's made previously. Just because your model is literally 1mm shorter than a new one in a more upright pose, has nothing to do with the validity of your old models or not.
I, for one, am OK how 2E "human-sized" minis look with other 2E "human-sized" minis (e.g. Eldar, Guard, Necromunda). I am OK with how they look with the 3E Orks and 3E Space Marines.
Psst! Elder aren't "human-sized". In fact it would be best to think of early 40K more like Matchbox or Hot Wheels cars--box scale* rather than scale models. It's important to remember 40K has never been naked as a scale game and even if one wanted to believe there was a 1:1 figure to ground scale then it was the humans that were always far too large. Rogue Trader pretty much quashes the idea of that though.
I, for one, am OK how 2E "human-sized" minis look with other 2E "human-sized" minis (e.g. Eldar, Guard, Necromunda). I am OK with how they look with the 3E Orks and 3E Space Marines.
It's important to remember 40K has never been naked
The original Necromunda included very basic rules for including a small range of aliens for scenarios, but they weren't really set up for use as a normal gang.
I'm sure people will come up with ways to integrate Necromunda and SW:A quickly enough.
I was going to use some of the dark elder to make my own Spryer gang.
Use Hellions then. They'd be great "counts as" Spryers.
I refuse to believe that anyone thought new Necromunda models would be in scale with the old metals.
And you know what? If you make a proper height comparison (starting from the actual feet and not the platform shoes)... they're actually not that much bigger, about half a head, and will look fine together:
Mymearan wrote: I refuse to believe that anyone thought new Necromunda models would be in scale with the old metals.
And you know what? If you make a proper height comparison (starting from the actual feet and not the platform shoes)... they're actually not that much bigger, about half a head, and will look fine together:
Even less when you consider that the classic model there is bent at the waistline while the new one is standing as straight as possible given her wide stance.
Mymearan wrote: I refuse to believe that anyone thought new Necromunda models would be in scale with the old metals.
And you know what? If you make a proper height comparison (starting from the actual feet and not the platform shoes)... they're actually not that much bigger, about half a head, and will look fine together:
Hey man, people gotta be able to complain about something amirite?
Considering the amount of times I've read the lack of realism arguments on here, or that wouldn't work like that in real life, I find it hard to believe that people are getting bent out of shape about models having different heights, stature, weights and aesthetics.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Considering the amount of times I've read the lack of realism arguments on here, or that wouldn't work like that in real life, I find it hard to believe that people are getting bent out of shape about models having different heights, stature, weights and aesthetics.
I know, right? It's almost like different people have different opinions on things!
The constant stream of 'I don't see the problem, therefore people are just complaining for the sake of complaining' really doesn't help keep the discussion civil.
Really, though, the scale issue isn't going to be conclusively resolved until people have actual models in hand. the one thing that the comparison pics posted in this thread prove is that comparison pics constructed from spliced together photos can return somewhat variable results.
Someone asked about the Goliath with the longarm; it looks to me like some sort of "revolver-shotgun". Utterly impractical, and thus entertainingly cool.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Someone asked about the Goliath with the longarm; it looks to me like some sort of "revolver-shotgun". Utterly impractical, and thus entertainingly cool.
I take it as some kind of tongue-in-cheek reminiscence of the old oversized pistols.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Someone asked about the Goliath with the longarm; it looks to me like some sort of "revolver-shotgun". Utterly impractical, and thus entertainingly cool.
I take it as some kind of tongue-in-cheek reminiscence of the old oversized pistols.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Considering the amount of times I've read the lack of realism arguments on here, or that wouldn't work like that in real life, I find it hard to believe that people are getting bent out of shape about models having different heights, stature, weights and aesthetics.
I know, right? It's almost like different people have different opinions on things!
The constant stream of 'I don't see the problem, therefore people are just complaining for the sake of complaining' really doesn't help keep the discussion civil.
Really, though, the scale issue isn't going to be conclusively resolved until people have actual models in hand. the one thing that the comparison pics posted in this thread prove is that comparison pics constructed from spliced together photos can return somewhat variable results.
Why not give them what they want for a day and have the content of every post on Dakka replaced with the shut up and take my money meme. Because that's all they come here to read.
There is no news but Necromunda. Nothing else even counts.
The models are secondary IMO...It's all about the terrain. If GW sells modular pieces like they did with the original game, then i'm all in. If they are selling crap bulk pieces akin to the other squad skirmish game...well, i'll have pirating the game and using my own terrain.
Oh, and if you don't like the models then just use different ones. The GW police aren't going to break in and arrest you.
Mymearan wrote: I refuse to believe that anyone thought new Necromunda models would be in scale with the old metals.
And you know what? If you make a proper height comparison (starting from the actual feet and not the platform shoes)... they're actually not that much bigger, about half a head, and will look fine together:
More importantly look at the difference in quality between the old metal and the new plastic - just the hair alone shows everything! The old model has well detailed hair that seems to be moving with her whilst the new one has that cartoony look that GW have been going for recently.
Actually I have to admit that I prefer the old model here as that pose looks amazing.
Mymearan wrote: I refuse to believe that anyone thought new Necromunda models would be in scale with the old metals.
And you know what? If you make a proper height comparison (starting from the actual feet and not the platform shoes)... they're actually not that much bigger, about half a head, and will look fine together:
More importantly look at the difference in quality between the old metal and the new plastic - just the hair alone shows everything! The old model has well detailed hair that seems to be moving with her whilst the new one has that cartoony look that GW have been going for recently.
Actually I have to admit that I prefer the old model here as that pose looks amazing.
I think the old Eschers are actually amongst the very few 20 year old GW models which have stood the test of time. They still look good today. The rest of the old Necromunda minis on the other hand. Most of them look awful today. Some of them looked awful 20 years ago.
I was thinking Gangs of Commoragh already does a basic job of capturing this.
It has DE riding and fighting on boards and bikes at building top level.
Each player can specialize their gang (boards, bikes or a mix).
Models get skill/equipment advances if you play a campaign.
Back on topic: Like others, I also wonder if this edition will have a separately available (non-e version) rulebook.
Mymearan wrote: I refuse to believe that anyone thought new Necromunda models would be in scale with the old metals.
And you know what? If you make a proper height comparison (starting from the actual feet and not the platform shoes)... they're actually not that much bigger, about half a head, and will look fine together:
More importantly look at the difference in quality between the old metal and the new plastic - just the hair alone shows everything! The old model has well detailed hair that seems to be moving with her whilst the new one has that cartoony look that GW have been going for recently.
Actually I have to admit that I prefer the old model here as that pose looks amazing.
Well the old Escher are Jes Goodwin sculpts and also some of the best GW models of all time... so yes they hold up very well next to new stuff.
I think the old Eschers are actually amongst the very few 20 year old GW models which have stood the test of time. They still look good today. The rest of the old Necromunda minis on the other hand. Most of them look awful today. Some of them looked awful 20 years ago.
Sure, if you can get past the fact that most of them have manfaces. (Can you tell Escher and Sisters were done around the same time?) It's the reason my wife ditched her Escher. The hair might be better, but the rest is not. It's also possible the Escher are a bit of a let down after Greyfax and Celestine and her posse?!?
I think the old Eschers are actually amongst the very few 20 year old GW models which have stood the test of time. They still look good today. The rest of the old Necromunda minis on the other hand. Most of them look awful today. Some of them looked awful 20 years ago.
Sure, if you can get past the fact that most of them have manfaces. (Can you tell Escher and Sisters were done around the same time?) It's the reason my wife ditched her Escher. The hair might be better, but the rest is not. It's also possible the Escher are a bit of a let down after Greyfax and Celestine and her posse?!?
Terrain, Terrain, Terrain. Multiple layers of loveliness. Would love to see the close confines of the zone mortalis corridors combined with the 3D depth of the new(ish) mech platforms.
I own 14 or 15 of the old Eschers, including Mad Donna. These look nice, and the scale looks fine.
Some people may feel differently. Others may be predictably pushing an agenda. But it doesn't seem like a particularly interesting conversation to keep having in this thread, especially without the models in our hands.
I'm wondering how fast the other gangs will be released. Hopefully they can quickly put out the missing 4, and the core box will contain the same Goliath/Escher kits they plan on releasing separately. Dragging gang releases out over months would suck.
They'll probably come out as quick as Bloodbowl teams are, which is fairly slowly. Holding everything to release at once is bad business. More options is nice, but it'll be taken as pump and dump by the fanbase. Look how excited everyone was over Shadow War. Without any support from the company no one cares anymore. Releasing a gang every few months will keep up the momentum.
JohnnyHell wrote: I'm wondering how fast the other gangs will be released. Hopefully they can quickly put out the missing 4, and the core box will contain the same Goliath/Escher kits they plan on releasing separately. Dragging gang releases out over months would suck.
I highly doubt theyll put all 6 gangs out in a month, it will take a few months at least, even if they released two a month, which I doubt. Is expect to see more of a Blood Bowl like release pattern.
JohnnyHell wrote: I'm wondering how fast the other gangs will be released. Hopefully they can quickly put out the missing 4, and the core box will contain the same Goliath/Escher kits they plan on releasing separately. Dragging gang releases out over months would suck.
I highly doubt theyll put all 6 gangs out in a month, it will take a few months at least, even if they released two a month, which I doubt. Is expect to see more of a Blood Bowl like release pattern.
The info from the event was that they intend to have all the original gangs out in plastic within 12 months of launch. Whether that means just the core House gangs or all the gangs they released last time around we don't know, but the former seems more plausible.
In the mean time they could do the made to order gangs . Then upgrade to newer gangs as they come out. I always thought the genestealer cult bodies were tech enough for Van Saar, plastic Catchan were close to Orlocks. Chaos cultists for cawdor or redemption. Delaque are well represented by a third party manufacturer . I thought Spryer could be represented by mixing different dark eldar (winged dudes for yeld, wyches for jakara, others for the Malcadon. The Orrus was the only one I was having issues trying to work out.
I suppose it depends how many people GW think will think "I really want the new plastic/old metal models, but they're not out, so I'll just buy the old metal/new plastic minis instead". I mean, these new Goliaths aren't a replacement for the old ones - they don't look like the same gang. I want these new plastics, a re-issue of the old metal ones doesn't interest me.
I think people underestimate the difference between the new Necromunda and the BB release. It is going to be more like a 40k faction release. The open day reports said the initial 6 gangs are done and all ready to be released. They have worked on them since March 2016. BB had only 7 months for its first two plastic teams and it wasn't planned to make more than four. Because sales numbers were really good they started re-doing the scuplts in plastic. I think we will see all 6 basic Necromunda houses within 2 months if not all at once shortly after the starter set. So either November-January, or everything this year, with several terrain bundles accompanying its releases.
Theophony wrote: If the new Escher are much larger than the older ones my older ones will just be juves, problem for me SOLVED.
*Ding! Ding! Ding!* We have a winner!
Seems a workable solution to me. (If any of my group still has their old Eschers... pretty sure that the two we had started using Raging Heroes' Jailbirds instead.
And, for the record - this is the first GW product that I have started salivating for in over a decade!
Thank you Mr. Rountree!
The Auld Grump
Isn't Rountree gone? I wouldn't credit him with anything other than damaging the hobby.
No, your thinking of Kirby - Rountree is the chap that has been undoing ten years of Kirbydom, one bad decision removed at a time.
The result was a turnaround that is much, much faster than I would have credited, just a few years ago.
I kind of know where Kirby was coming from - he was fortressing up, trying to defend GW's remaining assets after the sales of LotR games dried up - but that was doing nothing to grow the company, and was slowly allowing GW to haemorrhage dry.
Rountree is taking chances - and they are paying off, both in sales and in the stock market. (Which, ironically, greatly benefits Kirby.)
AndrewGPaul wrote: They did Blood Bowl, though, and the same argument applies to that.
Yep.
hoping they release mad donna and the power fist chick
only ones im missing
I have a mad donna complete if you are interested
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Warhams-77 wrote: I think we will see all 6 basic Necromunda houses within 2 months if not all at once shortly after the starter set. So either November-January, or everything this year, with several terrain bundles accompanying its releases.
I really, really doubt that but id love to be wrong
Warhams-77 wrote: I think people underestimate the difference between the new Necromunda and the BB release. It is going to be more like a 40k faction release. The open day reports said the initial 6 gangs are done and all ready to be released. They have worked on them since March 2016. BB had only 7 months for its first two plastic teams and it wasn't planned to make more than four. Because sales numbers were really good they started re-doing the scuplts in plastic. I think we will see all 6 basic Necromunda houses within 2 months if not all at once shortly after the starter set. So either November-January, or everything this year, with several terrain bundles accompanying its releases.
TBH i never saw anything in the announcement or from the show that stated that. I mean, it's possible, but it's also possible this will be launched like blood bowl.
honesty I would be thrilled for plastic Cawdor right out of the gate.
Wasn't much point making an official model with a power fist, hardly anyone would want to take one. Then again we did get a lascannon so I guess anything's game.
Do any of you chaps know of a website where I see a brief overview of the gangs and the way the game works?
I like the Goliath fellows but would like to see all the options just in case there is an even cooler gang!
I can't see much about it on the 40k Wiki and lexicanium appears to be gebrochen :-(
You can download the original rulebook on yaktribe. That has a section explaining it all:
Cheers mate! They do like to come up with some weird names for websites nowadays....
Picture works fine for me, looks like a very cool and grungy paint job but i'd like to see a neon green or pink spot colour in there as a reference to the original 80's art.
Kroem wrote: Do any of you chaps know of a website where I see a brief overview of the gangs and the way the game works?
I like the Goliath fellows but would like to see all the options just in case there is an even cooler gang!
The big six - mostly identical, but with different preferred skills and weapons:
House Cawdor: Religious nutters with masks. More of a close-combat focus, although the models didn't really support that. Main skill table: Ferocity.
House Delaque: Bald men in greatcoats and goggles. Infamous for having a model bringing a lascannon to a gun fight. Main skill table: Shooting/Stealth.
House Escher: Punk girls. Main skill table: Agility.
House Goliath: Muscleheads with a grudge against House Escher. Main skill table: Combat/Muscle.
House Orlock: Kind of generic 80s gang with jackets and bandannas. Main skill table: Combat/Shooting.
House Van Saar: The most technically proficient house, wearing what looks like stillsuits from the Dune movie. Main skill table: Shooting/Techno.
Outlanders and others:
Pit Slaves: Cyborg slaves who escaped from the Guilders.
Ratskin Renegades: American Indians, basically. Hard to kill, less likely to fall foul of environmental hazards and have "Shaman" psykers, but don't have access to all the best gear.
The Red Redemption: Double-plus religious nutters with chainsaws, flamethrowers and flamethrowers on chainsaws.
Skavvies: The dregs of the dregs. Mutants and cannibals with terrible gear.
Spyrers: Young nobles wearing high tech suits hunting the most dangerous game.
Kroem wrote: Do any of you chaps know of a website where I see a brief overview of the gangs and the way the game works?
I like the Goliath fellows but would like to see all the options just in case there is an even cooler gang!
I can't see much about it on the 40k Wiki and lexicanium appears to be gebrochen :-(
Necromunda is basically a game where you spend a lot of time maneuvering your gangers to kill the opposing gang... but for the most part everyone died to fall damage.
Interesting. Not sure what's armed with though. Could be a conversion, could be an engine. Who knows! Nice to see it all the same.
Before Blanche took the image down it was tagged has having a nail gun I believe - so may hint at weapon packs/options in the coming kits and not snap fit kits in the starter set.
Kroem wrote: Do any of you chaps know of a website where I see a brief overview of the gangs and the way the game works?
Necromunda is basically a game where you spend a lot of time maneuvering your gangers to kill the opposing gang... but for the most part everyone died to fall damage.
Kroem wrote: Do any of you chaps know of a website where I see a brief overview of the gangs and the way the game works?
I like the Goliath fellows but would like to see all the options just in case there is an even cooler gang!
The big six - mostly identical, but with different preferred skills and weapons:
House Cawdor: Religious nutters with masks. More of a close-combat focus, although the models didn't really support that. Main skill table: Ferocity.
House Delaque: Bald men in greatcoats and goggles. Infamous for having a model bringing a lascannon to a gun fight. Main skill table: Shooting/Stealth.
House Escher: Punk girls. Main skill table: Agility.
House Goliath: Muscleheads with a grudge against House Escher. Main skill table: Combat/Muscle.
House Orlock: Kind of generic 80s gang with jackets and bandannas. Main skill table: Combat/Shooting.
House Van Saar: The most technically proficient house, wearing what looks like stillsuits from the Dune movie. Main skill table: Shooting/Techno.
Outlanders and others:
Pit Slaves: Cyborg slaves who escaped from the Guilders.
Ratskin Renegades: American Indians, basically. Hard to kill, less likely to fall foul of environmental hazards and have "Shaman" psykers, but don't have access to all the best gear.
The Red Redemption: Double-plus religious nutters with chainsaws, flamethrowers and flamethrowers on chainsaws.
Skavvies: The dregs of the dregs. Mutants and cannibals with terrible gear.
Spyrers: Young nobles wearing high tech suits hunting the most dangerous game.
You've forgotten a few, though I can't remember if they were Chapter Advanced or not.
Vampyres (Wait, I think we should probably forget these)
And the Ash Waste Riders (Introduction to pre Gorkamorka vehicle rules!.. Hoo boy they were definitely not the best)
The classic Escher beat those shown, IMO, but those Goliaths show an incredible take and evolution of the models and stick to old artwork, too. Fantastic dudes. And plastic females for conversions...drool.
And if this gets us a M2O on the older models or more Escher/Cawdor/Redemptionists on ebay, even better.
Kroem wrote: Do any of you chaps know of a website where I see a brief overview of the gangs and the way the game works?
Necromunda is basically a game where you spend a lot of time maneuvering your gangers to kill the opposing gang... but for the most part everyone died to fall damage.
This. So much this!
This is true.
One my first games, I blasted a Goliath Juve off a building with a shotgun, which failed to wound him. He fell. Rolled a 1 to wound. Landed bang on my Leader. Who was killed.
Kroem wrote: Do any of you chaps know of a website where I see a brief overview of the gangs and the way the game works?
Necromunda is basically a game where you spend a lot of time maneuvering your gangers to kill the opposing gang... but for the most part everyone died to fall damage.
This. So much this!
This is true.
One my first games, I blasted a Goliath Juve off a building with a shotgun, which failed to wound him. He fell. Rolled a 1 to wound. Landed bang on my Leader. Who was killed.
That could only get better if the one that shot the Juve wound up becoming the new gang leader after the match. It would be such a great in game story of how to take the leadership role while making it all look "accidental"
So, the new Escher are armed with pretty standard gear, but the Goliaths have some new gear; a chainsaw polearm of some sort and a revolver longarm of some sort.
I for one hope this means the gangs will get gang-exclusive gear but more than that I just want more gear in general.
More variety in the guns in particular; I always thought that the underhive should have been a hotbed of illicit tinkering and outright invention, far from the prying optics of the Adeptus Mechanicus, with backstreet gunsmiths cooking up all sorts of weird and wonderful boomsticks for the… ah, connoisseur, of the armourer's art. But instead we got several sets of guns that were basically identical because the stats were cribbed from a wargame, where the statistics of large numbers demanded they be identical.
The CE made a good start, with the hunting rifle but there's a ways to go….
Mr_Rose wrote: So, the new Escher are armed with pretty standard gear, but the Goliaths have some new gear; a chainsaw polearm of some sort and a revolver longarm of some sort.
I for one hope this means the gangs will get gang-exclusive gear but more than that I just want more gear in general.
More variety in the guns in particular; I always thought that the underhive should have been a hotbed of illicit tinkering and outright invention, far from the prying optics of the Adeptus Mechanicus, with backstreet gunsmiths cooking up all sorts of weird and wonderful boomsticks for the… ah, connoisseur, of the armourer's art. But instead we got several sets of guns that were basically identical because the stats were cribbed from a wargame, where the statistics of large numbers demanded they be identical.
The CE made a good start, with the hunting rifle but there's a ways to go….
Kinda like Moe Syzlak's invention of a bunch of guns tape together with strings on the triggers?
Well, since there is a company that sells a gun that is literally two M1911 pistols welded together, with a common trigger for both barrels and I know that at least one person once made a sort of ersatz Gatling gun by mounting six AK-47s on a pair of discs turned by a hand crank, with a cam track to pull the triggers… yeah, kinda.
But also the sort of sublime genius of those guys that hand-finish and customise production guns to the exact specifications of the owner, down to the trigger weight and radius of curvature on the stock, and supply match-grade ammo, all to get the best possible performance out of the mass-produced gear.
Basically I want having a gunsmith in your territory to do more than just even out your ammo rolls, even if there's a price tag on the good stuff.
Kroem wrote: Do any of you chaps know of a website where I see a brief overview of the gangs and the way the game works?
I like the Goliath fellows but would like to see all the options just in case there is an even cooler gang!
I can't see much about it on the 40k Wiki and lexicanium appears to be gebrochen :-(
Necromunda is basically a game where you spend a lot of time maneuvering your gangers to kill the opposing gang... but for the most part everyone died to fall damage.
In one game, I started three of my Escher gangers on the roof of a small building, only to have them start the game facing a heavy stubber, so I decided to relocate. It's only a 1" drop, they can handle that, right?
Out of Action
Out of Action
Man Down
Moral of the story, don't climb in high heels. Still, no injuries, and one of them did Survive Against The Odds and gained some XP from her harrowing ordeal.
Some interesting info a friend told me today, from him chatting to Andy Hoare:
- Boxed game to have board tiles as they're cheaper to produce, and be set in a sewer-type environment. Escher and Goliath gangs plus rulebook too, obvs.
- Gangs are being reimagined a little (a la GeneCult) with differences between Houses and fleshed-out background. Goliaths are industrial and have a 'rivet gun'. Escher are chem-specialists and all mix up their own chem weapons - apparently you can see vials on the models. They have some form of chem-thrower Flamer weapon.
- Intending to promote Sector Mechanicus scenery and Zone Mortalis kits for use with Necromunda. Specialist Games couldn't have done scenery but GW coming out with Shadow War made it a possibility.
- He was told that the rules are a tweak of Necromunda. Subsequently surprised to then read from the WHCommunity post that they're 8th-based, as that wasn't intimated by AH.
- Roll to hit and roll to see if ammo test needed apparently now separate. Your dramatic chance hits will no longer always somehow be with your final bullet!
- Models have interchangeable hair, faces and arms. 5-model kit x2 per side. Allows lots of combinations without duplicating poses.
Throw all the salt needed at this but sounds interesting!
Separating ammo checks and hit rolls sounds good in theory but the alternatives are either tying it to another part of the shooting sequence or adding an extra roll somewhere, possibly with modification based on the turn or something. Or of course skipping the random roll and having models with individual ammunition counts (in shooting phases perhaps) but that is quite unlikely I think.
Still, as long as they make it less swingy, like they did for SW:A, then I’ll be happy.
As for the Houses getting specialities… about dang time! I really like that they appear to be teching-up the Underhive: the way it was portrayed before, there was a disconnect (to me at least) where the gangs could get heavy weapons on the open market but had to back-alley deal and haggle for a fancy face mask and so on. Or would have no idea where or when they could get a bionic or whatever. It always seemed to me that if they were that hard-pressed for supplies they really shouldn’t have been able to get things like boltguns (seriously, they are super rare in the fluff and not the sort of thing a likely lad striking out on his own to start a gang should be able to get) so I’m happy they seem to be raising the background tech level to match the weapons.
Kirasu wrote: IMO It's a 100% chance they are going to massively "reimagine" the Redemptionist model line. I assume I don't need to explain why.
You don't because I've already seen the argument, but I still think it's a completely unconvincing argument. 90% of 40K can be cast as "problematic" to varying degrees, you can't pander to people who don't bother to look beyond the most obvious and topical comparison or the worst possible interpretation, because they will always find something else to have a go at.
JohnnyHell wrote: Escher are chem-specialists and all mix up their own chem weapons - apparently you can see vials on the models. They have some form of chem-thrower Flamer weapon.
Necromunda has a gang where everyone wears protective goggles and long coats. Shouldn't they be the chem specialists, instead of the Underhive's second largest concentration of exposed midriffs?
JohnnyHell wrote: Escher are chem-specialists and all mix up their own chem weapons - apparently you can see vials on the models. They have some form of chem-thrower Flamer weapon.
Necromunda has a gang where everyone wears protective goggles and long coats. Shouldn't they be the chem specialists, instead of the Underhive's second largest concentration of exposed midriffs?
I am sure the Imperium's equivalent of OSHA agrees with you.
Only trouble with the new GW is that I'm still used to getting my toys the next week!
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Mr_Rose wrote: Well, since there is a company that sells a gun that is literally two M1911 pistols welded together, with a common trigger for both barrels and I know that at least one person once made a sort of ersatz Gatling gun by mounting six AK-47s on a pair of discs turned by a hand crank, with a cam track to pull the triggers… yeah, kinda.
But also the sort of sublime genius of those guys that hand-finish and customise production guns to the exact specifications of the owner, down to the trigger weight and radius of curvature on the stock, and supply match-grade ammo, all to get the best possible performance out of the mass-produced gear.
Basically I want having a gunsmith in your territory to do more than just even out your ammo rolls, even if there's a price tag on the good stuff.
That would indeed be Hella Cool. Kind of like visiting Mektown in Gorkamorka to get more dakka. Provided there's a chance they'll bodge it completely, it opens up the field somewhat. You can be a middling gang, but with a lucky visit get some serious firepower for a lower cost,
JohnnyHell wrote: Escher are chem-specialists and all mix up their own chem weapons - apparently you can see vials on the models. They have some form of chem-thrower Flamer weapon.
Necromunda has a gang where everyone wears protective goggles and long coats. Shouldn't they be the chem specialists, instead of the Underhive's second largest concentration of exposed midriffs?
Maybe because the Delaque where know as spies and shady intel dealers and GW choose to give them some subterfuge develop instead chem?
I can see Delaque having access to silencers, or stealth weapons and the Escher having access to chem due their studies/work in their genetic "flaw" for the males (or being their chem dealings the reason behind)
Kirasu wrote:IMO It's a 100% chance they are going to massively "reimagine" the Redemptionist model line. I assume I don't need to explain why.
They could all get a modern version of the burning hat that one dude had. He's a Necromunda special character whose name I don't remember (if I remember correctly he was originally from a comic).
Kirasu wrote:IMO It's a 100% chance they are going to massively "reimagine" the Redemptionist model line. I assume I don't need to explain why.
They could all get a modern version of the burning hat that one dude had. He's a Necromunda special character whose name I don't remember (if I remember correctly he was originally from a comic).
Hey, has anyone ever wondered what House Cawdor was like before the Red Redemption got their hooks in? Like, have they always been the fanatic nutcases of Hive Primus, or were they closer to the Orlocks, or something else?
No they were always a pious house. So as portrayed.
The Red Redemption is more like Fanatical Sub-cult of the established Imperial Creed. They're also not necessarily house specific but more likely to originate from Cawdor being already partial to the Jesus-juice as they are.
JohnnyHell wrote: Escher are chem-specialists and all mix up their own chem weapons - apparently you can see vials on the models. They have some form of chem-thrower Flamer weapon.
Necromunda has a gang where everyone wears protective goggles and long coats. Shouldn't they be the chem specialists, instead of the Underhive's second largest concentration of exposed midriffs?
Maybe because the Delaque where know as spies and shady intel dealers and GW choose to give them some subterfuge develop instead chem?
I can see Delaque having access to silencers, or stealth weapons and the Escher having access to chem due their studies/work in their genetic "flaw" for the males (or being their chem dealings the reason behind)
Or because they mix chemicals to reach new heights of hairstyle . Are they potions or conditioners?
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I can't wait to see if they do the Enforcers. I think my 'gang' will have a warcry like 'stop resisting!', or 'Beats By Arbites'.
master of ordinance wrote: Well, Escher used to be THE plasma gang so chemicals is not too far removed from the fluff.
How so? They had one model with a heavy plasma gun and one with a plasma pistol, but so did Van Saar. Looking at the "old Underhive" rulebook, Delaque also had plasma guns and heavy plasma guns in their weapon lists. Nothing in their background mentioned anything about any Houses having a preference for different weapon types.
Oh yeah, talking of heavy wepons and weird fluff disconnects, I always wondered how the Escher managed to make a compact, portable heavy plasma gun that could be used by a single operator without power armour or a carriage. They should have sold the design back to the Adeptus Mechanicus and supplanted one of the Spire Houses already.
I hope they explain this or just drop heavy wepons in gangs entirely. At least for starting gangs. Would be nice if a Heavy could recruit a Juve "loader" who could help them shove a gun carriage around and gain exp. doing so.
Mr_Rose wrote: Oh yeah, talking of heavy wepons and weird fluff disconnects, I always wondered how the Escher managed to make a compact, portable heavy plasma gun that could be used by a single operator without power armour or a carriage. They should have sold the design back to the Adeptus Mechanicus and supplanted one of the Spire Houses already.
I hope they explain this or just drop heavy wepons in gangs entirely. At least for starting gangs. Would be nice if a Heavy could recruit a Juve "loader" who could help them shove a gun carriage around and gain exp. doing so.
I can't remember the timings; had the 2nd edition Imperial Guard range started coming out by then? With their carriage-mounted heavy weapons with two crew? I assumed that the weapons used by gangs were less reliable (well of course they were - I never failed an ammo roll with any of my Guard), of lighter and thus shoddier construction, had lower ammunition capacities and were missing assorted safety features present on the military equipment (like prayers and holy unguents, obviously). Or perhaps some were advanced models suitable for short manufacturing runs for customers like the Inquisition and the Necromundan PDF, but not able to be manufactured in the billions required for the Guard.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I also think the best thing GW could do with these models is make rules that allow you to take an Underhive Gang detachment in 40k.
Oh you know that'll happen quicksmart. They'd be mad not to allow cross-compatibility.
Mr_Rose wrote: Oh yeah, talking of heavy wepons and weird fluff disconnects, I always wondered how the Escher managed to make a compact, portable heavy plasma gun that could be used by a single operator without power armour or a carriage. They should have sold the design back to the Adeptus Mechanicus and supplanted one of the Spire Houses already.
I hope they explain this or just drop heavy wepons in gangs entirely. At least for starting gangs. Would be nice if a Heavy could recruit a Juve "loader" who could help them shove a gun carriage around and gain exp. doing so.
Probably because at the time anyone could carry a heavy weapon and use it in that way.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I also think the best thing GW could do with these models is make rules that allow you to take an Underhive Gang detachment in 40k.
Oh you know that'll happen quicksmart. They'd be mad not to allow cross-compatibility.
Didn't they do that with the original Necromunda? I seem to remember that was a thing. I know they did it with original WHQ and WFB.
Mr_Rose wrote: Oh yeah, talking of heavy wepons and weird fluff disconnects, I always wondered how the Escher managed to make a compact, portable heavy plasma gun that could be used by a single operator without power armour or a carriage. They should have sold the design back to the Adeptus Mechanicus and supplanted one of the Spire Houses already.
I hope they explain this or just drop heavy wepons in gangs entirely. At least for starting gangs. Would be nice if a Heavy could recruit a Juve "loader" who could help them shove a gun carriage around and gain exp. doing so.
I can't remember the timings; had the 2nd edition Imperial Guard range started coming out by then? With their carriage-mounted heavy weapons with two crew? I assumed that the weapons used by gangs were less reliable (well of course they were - I never failed an ammo roll with any of my Guard), of lighter and thus shoddier construction, had lower ammunition capacities and were missing assorted safety features present on the military equipment (like prayers and holy unguents, obviously). Or perhaps some were advanced models suitable for short manufacturing runs for customers like the Inquisition and the Necromundan PDF, but not able to be manufactured in the billions required for the Guard.
Yes, 2nd ed metal Guard with gun carriages came before Necromunda. Thile I don't recall any official explanation, I don't find it difficult to rationalize the difference in style.
The Imperial Guard is focused on a defensive role, in which a stable firing platform benefits the performance of heavy weapons, while it's all about redundancy and having plenty of soldiers to take over in case the gunner gets shot, so weapon teams are a thing.
Whereas gangers are in it for themselves, rely on themselves and may have to do a fair bit of traveling through narrow passageways and up and down ladders, so they need something a single guy can carry and operate.
A bit like light and heavy machine guns. The gun's the same, but the latter is mounted for stability and the former kept light for mobility.
Have they said anything about the Genesteeler cults being added to this? To me at least that seems like a natural fit, even if you have to change the fluff a little.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I also think the best thing GW could do with these models is make rules that allow you to take an Underhive Gang detachment in 40k.
Oh you know that'll happen quicksmart. They'd be mad not to allow cross-compatibility.
That was why they added the Hive Militias to the army lists in the Armageddon mini-codex wasn't it?
Include all of your Necromunda models in mass battles.
None of which have been known to contain a genestealer infestation that I know of. Given how big Armageddon is & the scale of conflict taking place there, its not impossible however that a genestealer infestation might exist somewhere within one of these hive cities.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I also think the best thing GW could do with these models is make rules that allow you to take an Underhive Gang detachment in 40k.
Oh you know that'll happen quicksmart. They'd be mad not to allow cross-compatibility.
That was why they added the Hive Militias to the army lists in the Armageddon mini-codex wasn't it?
Include all of your Necromunda models in mass battles.
I'm really hoping they update the rules for hive gangers to be included in 8th edition 40k. Hive gangs have played a massive role on Armageddon & it would be cool if they could be included in Steel Legion armies.
None of which have been known to contain a genestealer infestation that I know of. Given how big Armageddon is & the scale of conflict taking place there, its not impossible however that a genestealer infestation might exist somewhere within one of these hive cities.
I never knew Eschwer were supposed to be plasma, I associated Van Saar with that. Same with chem weapons.
I'm not against some tinkering with the background *. The masks on the Goliath for example are an okay idea -that keeps with their history of being from the most polluted parts of the regular hive- done brilliantly going by the masks shown so far. GW has a tendency overdo it and offer zero bare heads for them, despite some Goliath players probably wanting to keep with the old "we Goliaths are STRONK, he who can't breathe our smog is WEAK" background/aesthetic. They used to pride themselves on their toughness without the need for rebreathers and filters. Reivers having bare/masked/fully helmeted heads has me hopeful, though.
Orlocks need something more interesting real bad and the rest has me curious. Sam Fisher-like Delaque or will they get hats and tommy guns to go with their trenchcoats? Ratskins with gear similiar to Horizon's Nora, maybe? Will "our tech is simply manufactured to a higher standard" get bulky, low-tech exoskeletons to go with their exosuits, like Infinity has? The crazy weapons on the Goliath have my mind racing.
*And as chance has it I could REALLY use females with rebreathers and vials and stuff, my Nurgle traitors need "Poison Ivy" assassins/death cultists. However, I won't ever not play Escher without a normal flamer or with only plasma guns just because that's what their sprues/rules offer.
guardpiper wrote: Have they said anything about the Genesteeler cults being added to this? To me at least that seems like a natural fit, even if you have to change the fluff a little.
Chaos cults scale better, all the way down to "that weirdo who crossed himself twice with blood after he killed a guy." You get chaos worshipers before you get Bloodletters, but you get Genestealers before you get genestealer cults.
My mistake. It seems secundus is used in both IP's. Seems like a lot of the hive gang stuff on Armageddon was inspired by Necromunda.
Not sure "IP" is exactly what you mean (Tatooine and Hoth aren't different IPs, either ), but on Armageddon, Primus and Secundus are the major continents (with Secundus being the one that got most of the focus in the story of the first and second wars; basically western Russia rotated somewhat).
Primus / the Palatine
Secundus
Trazior (also known as the Three Sisters)
Acropolis
The Temenos
Quinspirus
The Skull
Though the fluff also mentions that Necromunda is made up of about a thousand hive clusters of varying size, so it can't be too difficult to find a place to let a chaos cult or some other gang of snowflakes to run amok.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I also think the best thing GW could do with these models is make rules that allow you to take an Underhive Gang detachment in 40k.
Oh you know that'll happen quicksmart. They'd be mad not to allow cross-compatibility.
Didn't they do that with the original Necromunda? I seem to remember that was a thing. I know they did it with original WHQ and WFB.
Isn't that like the penal legion? Unskilled criminal types seem to fit the bill well. Gang leader/commissar.
There were no rules specifically for using Necromunda models in 2nd edition 40k, although gangers could have been used as Fratersi Militia in Sisters of Battle armies, and if you had enough gangers with lasguns, you could have used them as Imperial Guard (as I did, thanks to the handy weapons sprue!). There was a unit entry for Armageddon hive gangs as part of Codex: Armageddon for 3rd edition, I think.
Yes. They're both in Segmentum Solar. Armageddon is spinwards, "north-east" along the same spiral arm as Earth, near the border with Ultima Segmentum. Necromunda is widdershins, "south" of Earth, again in the same spiral arm. It's closer (in a 2D projection, at least) to Earth, and is a much older colony.
What does it have to do with Necromunda? Someone asked about the possibility of genestealer cults in new Necromunda, I mentioned the previous rumours about "Hive Secundus", Commissar Benny mistook that for a reference to the Secundus continent on Armageddon. Simples.
Perhaps the reason gangers weren't included in 40K is because they were already present. In Space Marine by Ian Watson the Imperial Fists recruited new members from Necromunda gangs. Gangers would also join the Guard or PDF. Paint a gang tattoo on your Space Marine and bam, you have a ganger. It would make no sense for the Imperial forces to transport untrained gangs to warzones and dump them there to cause havoc among both sides.
I always liked how Watson portrayed Marines with deep psychological flaws, with their indoctrination into worshiping the emperor being the thin veneer that prevented them turning completely psychopathic. This was before the fluff neutered them into noble, and very, very boring, warrior monks. A life brought up in a hive would certainly leave profound psychological scars that would only be exacerbated by being turned into a freak.
Gangers were used in 40k. There were lists that were tailored around the used of hodge-podge units.. specifically Necromunda gangers and OOP characters. Planetary Defense Force is the one that immediately springs to mind. The article had pictures I think of Orlock, Goliath, and a few of Schaeffer's Last Chancers. I may be wrong but I am pretty sure when Cityfight came out they also ran a bit on using Necromunda themed forces.
The Imperial Guard is focused on a defensive role, in which a stable firing platform benefits the performance of heavy weapons, while it's all about redundancy and having plenty of soldiers to take over in case the gunner gets shot, so weapon teams are a thing.
Whereas gangers are in it for themselves, rely on themselves and may have to do a fair bit of traveling through narrow passageways and up and down ladders, so they need something a single guy can carry and operate.
A bit like light and heavy machine guns. The gun's the same, but the latter is mounted for stability and the former kept light for mobility.
Would be nice if the big heavies in Necromunda (las cannon, H plama gun, etc.) were toned down a bit in Necromunda to reflect the home built nature of the guns and the rarity of ammo/powerpacks.
The Imperial Guard is focused on a defensive role, in which a stable firing platform benefits the performance of heavy weapons, while it's all about redundancy and having plenty of soldiers to take over in case the gunner gets shot, so weapon teams are a thing.
Whereas gangers are in it for themselves, rely on themselves and may have to do a fair bit of traveling through narrow passageways and up and down ladders, so they need something a single guy can carry and operate.
A bit like light and heavy machine guns. The gun's the same, but the latter is mounted for stability and the former kept light for mobility.
Would be nice if the big heavies in Necromunda (las cannon, H plama gun, etc.) were toned down a bit in Necromunda to reflect the home built nature of the guns and the rarity of ammo/powerpacks.
T
I can easily see some of the genestealer cult weapons being used, like the mining laser.
AndrewGPaul wrote: How so? They had one model with a heavy plasma gun and one with a plasma pistol, but so did Van Saar. Looking at the "old Underhive" rulebook, Delaque also had plasma guns and heavy plasma guns in their weapon lists. Nothing in their background mentioned anything about any Houses having a preference for different weapon types.
They had a (very small) heavy Plasma Gun and one chick had a Plasma Pistol. Add a couple of decades and boom, they're the Plasma Gang. Happened with the Dark Angels as well.
AndrewGPaul wrote: How so? They had one model with a heavy plasma gun and one with a plasma pistol, but so did Van Saar. Looking at the "old Underhive" rulebook, Delaque also had plasma guns and heavy plasma guns in their weapon lists. Nothing in their background mentioned anything about any Houses having a preference for different weapon types.
They had a (very small) heavy Plasma Gun and one chick had a Plasma Pistol. Add a couple of decades and boom, they're the Plasma Gang. Happened with the Dark Angels as well.
And Death Guard, to some extent. Mortarion preferred Melta and Flamer for his Legionnaires, but the models featured a Plasma Gun, so for some reason everyone thinks Death Guard should use Plasma and that's even reflected in the latest minis.
Vorian wrote: Not really sure how that simplifies vs a D3
'cause it covers of both multi shots and ammo check "needs".
I'd like to see say 2x sustain fire dice for a heavy stubba and a double jam = out of ammo or weapon destroyed. A # + jam = # shots then a jam to clear. You spend the next round either clearing the jam OR you push through firing 1 die and if it jams than it suffers the out/destroyed.
You could incorporate the same with 1 hit weapons. Roll a sustained and only the jam symbol matters when shooting. This adds more "reality" rather than saying a good shot can screw you over.
Besides it means GW can sell more dice! Tracking wouldn't be that bad either as you would need not that many per side, due to gang size.
AndrewGPaul wrote: How so? They had one model with a heavy plasma gun and one with a plasma pistol, but so did Van Saar. Looking at the "old Underhive" rulebook, Delaque also had plasma guns and heavy plasma guns in their weapon lists. Nothing in their background mentioned anything about any Houses having a preference for different weapon types.
They had a (very small) heavy Plasma Gun and one chick had a Plasma Pistol. Add a couple of decades and boom, they're the Plasma Gang. Happened with the Dark Angels as well.
I assumed that was the reason; I was just surprised, because master of ordinance said it like it was common knowledge, and that's the first I've heard it.
On another note, the new minis look a little closer in feel to this picture, which can only be a good thing.
Very, very small. As in, after I used the heavy for my leader conversion, the heavy plasma gun eventually wound up as a plasma gun for one of my marines, as it was a more-or-less perfect match for the 3rd ed Marine plasma gun.
I'm really optimistic (perhaps recklessly) for this. I love Necromunda and the new models for the Goliaths and Escher look great and much in line with their previous aesthetic. I hope they can do the same with the other gangs also. Except Van Saar, those models looked goofy as hell. I love the idea of a tech focused gang, but giving everyone a squared off haircut, chuck Norris beard and a body suit just looks silly. I hope we see them with more cybernetic modifications and have them look actually "techy."
Very, very small. As in, after I used the heavy for my leader conversion, the heavy plasma gun eventually wound up as a plasma gun for one of my marines, as it was a more-or-less perfect match for the 3rd ed Marine plasma gun.
That's because the non-Heavy Plasma Gun was clearly skinner. I think the metal IG use that version, whereas the Escher have the Heavy PG. Then the 3E SMDevs added a MUCH bigger Plasma Cannon.
Does anybody know of a good company that sells sci-fi shanty town buildings? I already have a fair deal of GW's new industrial terrain for this upcoming release, but I'd also like to build a sumptown or the like for showdowns there.
I mean, I already have more than enough non-ganger minis to populate an entire town, I just need a town now.
The Thunder Chrome links are rather useless, seeing as I don't have a 3D printer and they only sell the designs for their terrain, unless I'm missing something here.
Some months ago we started our dream to design wargaming scenery for 3D printers. We founded a successful kickstarter and now we have been able to open our own webstore. There you can buy the files to print them at home if you own a 3D printer.
If you don't own one, we also offer our models printed and ready to paint. Just take a look at our catalogue and then write us an email to info@thunder-chrome.com with the models you'd like to buy and we will answer you ASAP with the cost and shipping time.
The prices in the web store are for the 3D models, for printed models prices write us!
I was following their thread on Miniwargaming, thought their terrain looks promising and bookmarked it for future purchase
Do they still do the made to order stuff on older figures? Maybe they will for Necromunda, as many of the characters like Mad Donna and Karloff Valois reach silly money on eBay.
They did some bloodbowl teams recently so I should think we'll see some Necromunda after the new one comes out (if they've still got functional moulds)
AndrewGPaul wrote: On another note, the new minis look a little closer in feel to this picture, which can only be a good thing.
I'm going to disagree because of GW's weird belief you can get pony tails the size of...actual pony's tails from a mostly shaved head. Yes Sisters of Silence, I'm looking at you. I'm all for root girls in leather pants and para-military bikini tops, but for the love of doG can some one send GW sculptors to a hair salon for half a day.
The terrain is what GW need to focus on to keep the game going. The aren't going to sell loads of minis but new and exciting terrain is what will keep the tills pinging for necromunda!
Never occured to me that the Escher plasma gun was actually a heavy one. It looked so much smaller than the Van Saar one to my judgment.
Also, NEW NECROMUNDA! Not the best designed game GW released (Warmaster probably would get that title, perhaps BFG) but certainly my favourite. Will pay avid attention to future releases.
I always felt that Necromunda was a terrible game system that was immensely enjoyable because of its unique capacity to tell stories of individual, more or less regular people just struggling to survive in 40k.
The rules were a random hot pot of everything the devs thought was cool thrown together in one afternoon over some beer.
If they keep the narrative power but actually craft the rules following modern design principles and with some plan in mind this time, it could be their best game ever.
GW were never strong on rules and was always worse when campaign was involved.
I think Necromunda hit randomly many good chores and sang well to the community, something the other GW campaign games even when technically better never managed to do so.
lord_blackfang wrote: I always felt that Necromunda was a terrible game system that was immensely enjoyable because of its unique capacity to tell stories of individual, more or less regular people just struggling to survive in 40k.
The rules were a random hot pot of everything the devs thought was cool thrown together in one afternoon over some beer.
If they keep the narrative power but actually craft the rules following modern design principles and with some plan in mind this time, it could be their best game evewr.
They weren't really. It was largely the second edition rules used straight and an adaption of the blood bowl progression system, with a few rules for gun jams and a couple of other things.
'Modern design principles' always worries me when I see it, since I never know what hack theory of games design people are currently reading. But it seems very unlikely that GW is reading the same thing.
Yeah, I don't like talking about "modern" game design either, game systems aren't cars, they don't automatically improve over time. As an examplke, people like to tout alternate activations as an example of modern design but it has advantages and disadvantages just like IGOUGO.
So does chess follow modern design principles? Because that game has been around for ages. What exactly is a modern design principle? Its a bit of a vague term, tbh.
I do not think the Necromunda rules were bad, they just were not great. However, they were good enough for the campaign system to work pretty well. Incredible background, good (if not massively balanced) gang development, excellent scope for modelling miniatures and terrain, plenty of scope for story telling. Add in rules which were not brilliant but largely worked and you had a classic.
As for modern vs old rules... A lot of modern games have some innovative elements which you could argue (admittedly, only argue) are superior to old GW rules. However, a lot of modern games seem designed for a more casual audience which I am really not a fan of. Something tells me that after AoS (which as I understand was eventually a success) the new Necromunda will be more casual than the old one.
Samsonov wrote: I do not think the Necromunda rules were bad, they just were not great. However, they were good enough for the campaign system to work pretty well. Incredible background, good (if not massively balanced) gang development, excellent scope for modelling miniatures and terrain, plenty of scope for story telling. Add in rules which were not brilliant but largely worked and you had a classic.
As for modern vs old rules... A lot of modern games have some innovative elements which you could argue (admittedly, only argue) are superior to old GW rules. However, a lot of modern games seem designed for a more casual audience which I am really not a fan of. Something tells me that after AoS (which as I understand was eventually a success) the new Necromunda will be more casual than the old one.
Well, the old rules will still be around so you and your gaming group can obviously choose which one youd rather play. I think thats a good thing, though I am looking forward to seeing what these new rules will be like, particularly if theyre 8th ed inspired (though apparently someone who spoke to the FW designers said they werent) :s
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So does chess follow modern design principles? Because that game has been around for ages. What exactly is a modern design principle? Its a bit of a vague term, tbh.
Clearly what chess needs is proprietary dice, status effect counters (thousands of them) and a whole lot of ability cards.
I really enjoy the greater general simplicity of 8ths rules. And the alternating activations they've mentioned really has my attention. necromunda was small enough it didn't really need alternating activations to avoid one player feeling bored, but I'm exciting to see GW taking a step away from IGOUGO. Its been since Epic 40k that they tried that.
Tack on their willingness to make rules and point changes based on feedback and results of gameplay, and I really like this new GW direction.
People prefer different things. We had a 8th edition 40k in 40 minutes and SW:A day on the same urban terrain. Most of the people hated SW:A after playing 40k in 40 minutes using 8th. The main reason was SW:A has a pinning mechanic on hits.
It makes the game so much more tactical, but when you're just looking to have a blast moving guys around and rolling dice, it can give people an negative experience. Like "skip your next turn" in old board games.
Since different people are looking for different things, I wonder which GW will pick. Will it having pinning and play like SW:A or will it have total freedom of activation like 8th edtion 40k? Or will there be a pinning mechanic on the scenario/advanced rules level that can be applied if you want it?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Does pinning giving people playing less seriously a negative experience when it's combined with alternating activations?
Mymearan wrote: Yeah, I don't like talking about "modern" game design either, game systems aren't cars, they don't automatically improve over time. As an examplke, people like to tout alternate activations as an example of modern design but it has advantages and disadvantages just like IGOUGO.
I do not think we have "modern" game design in rules details and usage, I feel modern game design is in design principles.
So "modern" game design is about tight, clear rules, speed of play and good game balance, one would argue that these are simply good design principles and should be classical, but the pre 90s game design (and GWs game design until quite recently) was expecting the players to balance the rules and armies among themselves.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Samsonov wrote: I do not think the Necromunda rules were bad, they just were not great. However, they were good enough for the campaign system to work pretty well. Incredible background, good (if not massively balanced) gang development, excellent scope for modelling miniatures and terrain, plenty of scope for story telling. Add in rules which were not brilliant but largely worked and you had a classic.
It had many problems in the details, been an outlaw was with the right territories a far easier job than been a "law abiding" gang witch should be the opposite, the random WS /BS boost that was fixed on Mordheim, the XP exploitation for underdogs, not a bad system but needed quite a tight up that was not done, but it was serviceable.
I still maintain it had a spirit that Gorkamorka and Mordheim never got even though Gorkamorka had the vehicles everybody was asking for in Necromunda and Moerheim had the lore and for once the Artwork of Blanche that was fitting in the nightmarish setting.
Modern design princliple in RPGs usually revolve around using the same core mechanic for all resolution.
If you played D&D during it's 1st and 2nd editions it was obvious that each writer/designer implimented a new and different mechanic almost every time they added something to the game. Attacks and Saves both rolled D20s but work differently. Psionics worked completely differently. Skills had their own rules. Thief abilites didn't work like skills, etc...
Once 3rd edition rolled around, almost every resolution became D20+ modifiers to beat a target number. 4th edition took it step farther turning what were previously saving throws into attack rolls, etc...
Necromunda's shooting and melee operate on completely different mechnics, unlike 8th editions where they both roll to hit verses a static target number.
Mymearan wrote: Yeah, I don't like talking about "modern" game design either, game systems aren't cars, they don't automatically improve over time. As an examplke, people like to tout alternate activations as an example of modern design but it has advantages and disadvantages just like IGOUGO.
I do not think we have "modern" game design in rules details and usage, I feel modern game design is in design principles.
So "modern" game design is about tight, clear rules, speed of play and good game balance, one would argue that these are simply good design principles and should be classical, but the pre 90s game design (and GWs game design until quite recently) was expecting the players to balance the rules and armies among themselves.
adamsouza wrote: Modern design princliple in RPGs usually revolve around using the same core mechanic for all resolution.
You know, *both* of those things can be true. Fewer mechanics reducing to a single core mechanic leads to tighter, clearer rules that play faster and are easire to balance. And vice versa.
Activation mechanics vary a lot, for different effect, and alternate single activation vs Igo-Ugo are simply the extremes of the spectrum, which are more naturally suited toward certain types of games. There's more than one way to allow (or force) interaction / reaction appropriate to the game scale.
For a small skirmish like Necromunda, with a half-dozen to a dozen figures per side, I think a card-based mechanic might have worked best.
There are also cycles. From what I understand 60s wargaming was super simple with basic principles and it wasn't until later did things get cumbersome. Similarly the first D&D products were really simple and only when things went "advanced" did they start piling on endless ways to handle different things.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So does chess follow modern design principles? Because that game has been around for ages. What exactly is a modern design principle? Its a bit of a vague term, tbh.
Clearly what chess needs is proprietary dice, status effect counters (thousands of them) and a whole lot of ability cards.
Don't forget custom maneuver tools for the pieces.
argonak wrote: And the alternating activations they've mentioned really has my attention.....Its been since Epic 40k that they tried that.
Not to be pedantic, but Epic: Armageddon also used Alternate Activation, as did the rather excellent Betrayal at Calth. I have a feeling that some design principles may have made it from Calth to here - talk of Action Points for example. The pinning mechanism being that weapons such as bolters remove Tactical Points, reducing enemy actions. Works extremely well, and gives an actual reason to value a basic weapon.
What worries me about "updated" rules in relation to GW is that it usually seem to mean either all or some of the following; removal of the psychology rules, oversimplification of morale, no fov, and bonkers cover rules.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So does chess follow modern design principles? Because that game has been around for ages. What exactly is a modern design principle? Its a bit of a vague term, tbh.
Clearly what chess needs is proprietary dice, status effect counters (thousands of them) and a whole lot of ability cards.
Don't forget custom maneuver tools for the pieces.
And a slightly bigger scale so you can make out all details on the models plus more factions than black or white ..oh and terrain
H.B.M.C. wrote: More factions? A Scum faction and then... *crickets*
I said it earlier, the scope of the Galactic Civil War does not befit a wargame (or even a skirmish game). The Rebels don't have anything unless you make it up.
One of the latter reports evens says "Snowspeeders were mentioned." Yeah, no gak they were. That's the only ground vehicle the Rebels have (in the movies, and without making anything up). At best you can get a U-Wing now thanks to Rogue One, but that's it.
Even in the minis we've seen so far one of the things the Rebels have is stolen from the prequel era.
I think Star Wars, as a whole, since being bought by Disney, has a prequel-era phobia. Everything is so solidly focused on the original trilogy and not daring to deviate from that (Ep 7 was the biggest Ep 4 love-letter ever written) that it's leaving a wealth of material in the dust. The Clone Wars were a war, a real war between fleets and armies with campaigns and battle lines. The Galactic Civil War was more of an insurgency. One is fit for a wargame/skirmish game. The other is not.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far we have not seen any weapons in common between the Goliaths and Eschers. I am curious if this means gangs will get unique weapons, or if they will go even further and have a separate armoury for each gang. Either way, it will make for great conversion fodder for INQ28 and other games.
I think the factions could very much do with some more "unique" gear, but I hope they don't take it too far, the core of a gang should still be grunts with common guns. Something like the variation in Mordheim warbands would be cool, with varied profiles for different henchmen and a couple of bits of special gear and skills etc for each gang, but if they make them all totally unique with their own weaponry it strays too far away from one of the big reasons Necromunda is appealing IMO - its depiction of the unsavoury end of "street level" humanity in a typical large Imperial Hive.
I agree. There should be some ubiquitous gear like stub guns and lasguns that are manufactured by every House and can be found at every trading post.
For the uncommon stuff like swords and boltguns the system I used was a middle ground between original Necromunda and Specialist Games Necromunda: either your own House manufactures it and you can treat it as common gear, or you sacrifice one Rare Trade Roll to buy as many of that item as you want.
I prefer the equipment be largely similar between gangs, the more variety and unique items, the more infrequently used rules exist which makes it harder to remember stuff, and more potential for one gang having an imbalance in their favour meaning that gang is overpowered.
Mr_Rose wrote:So, the new Escher are armed with pretty standard gear, but the Goliaths have some new gear; a chainsaw polearm of some sort and a revolver longarm of some sort.
I for one hope this means the gangs will get gang-exclusive gear but more than that I just want more gear in general.
More variety in the guns in particular; I always thought that the underhive should have been a hotbed of illicit tinkering and outright invention, far from the prying optics of the Adeptus Mechanicus, with backstreet gunsmiths cooking up all sorts of weird and wonderful boomsticks for the… ah, connoisseur, of the armourer's art. But instead we got several sets of guns that were basically identical because the stats were cribbed from a wargame, where the statistics of large numbers demanded they be identical.
The CE made a good start, with the hunting rifle but there's a ways to go….
Mr_Rose wrote:Well, since there is a company that sells a gun that is literally two M1911 pistols welded together, with a common trigger for both barrels and I know that at least one person once made a sort of ersatz Gatling gun by mounting six AK-47s on a pair of discs turned by a hand crank, with a cam track to pull the triggers… yeah, kinda.
But also the sort of sublime genius of those guys that hand-finish and customise production guns to the exact specifications of the owner, down to the trigger weight and radius of curvature on the stock, and supply match-grade ammo, all to get the best possible performance out of the mass-produced gear.
Basically I want having a gunsmith in your territory to do more than just even out your ammo rolls, even if there's a price tag on the good stuff.
I see where you guys (and those that have made simialr suggestions) are coming from, but necromunda is already fairly granular. Further separating weapons, and hyper-detailing specialties is the kind of layers of detail that would kill the fun of necromunda. Sure all revolvers and some automatics are "stub guns" but that kind of abstraction makes it easier to balance factions and keep track of things. Despite the fact that it was based on the slighty-clunky 2nd edition rules I've generally found necromunda to play faster and easier than most any other edition of 40k and that's not just because of the scope. Over-complicating a good thing is never a good thing.
I do agree that NCE made a few nice additions to the overall weapons list, but we really don't need every house to have it's own set of weapons.
argonak wrote: And the alternating activations they've mentioned really has my attention.....Its been since Epic 40k that they tried that.
Not to be pedantic, but Epic: Armageddon also used Alternate Activation, as did the rather excellent Betrayal at Calth. I have a feeling that some design principles may have made it from Calth to here - talk of Action Points for example. The pinning mechanism being that weapons such as bolters remove Tactical Points, reducing enemy actions. Works extremely well, and gives an actual reason to value a basic weapon.
Sorry, I wasn't really thinking of Epic:A separately from 40k. It was just a modified rulebook to try and tempt back all the old Space Marine players who they pissed off. But I didn't realize they had it in Betrayal At Calth. All I ever heard was people buying that game for the minis, no one seemed to talk about the game. That does sound interesting though.
I know not everyone liked them, but I thought the House weapon lists were a good idea, and not just to stop the proliferation of swords across all gangs.
Yeah, special wargear and habilities for houses could be cool. With a generic weaponry and skill trees availible for everyone that should be the 80-90% of the options, with the "specific only" being a minor part for flavour.
argonak wrote: And the alternating activations they've mentioned really has my attention.....Its been since Epic 40k that they tried that.
Not to be pedantic, but Epic: Armageddon also used Alternate Activation, as did the rather excellent Betrayal at Calth. I have a feeling that some design principles may have made it from Calth to here - talk of Action Points for example. The pinning mechanism being that weapons such as bolters remove Tactical Points, reducing enemy actions. Works extremely well, and gives an actual reason to value a basic weapon.
Hey, I heard that Calth and Necromunda were the same designer...
argonak wrote: And the alternating activations they've mentioned really has my attention.....Its been since Epic 40k that they tried that.
Not to be pedantic, but Epic: Armageddon also used Alternate Activation, as did the rather excellent Betrayal at Calth. I have a feeling that some design principles may have made it from Calth to here - talk of Action Points for example. The pinning mechanism being that weapons such as bolters remove Tactical Points, reducing enemy actions. Works extremely well, and gives an actual reason to value a basic weapon.
Hey, I heard that Calth and Necromunda were the same designer...
Now if true that is an interesting bit of information. Gives me hope on quality and balance.
argonak wrote: And the alternating activations they've mentioned really has my attention.....Its been since Epic 40k that they tried that.
Not to be pedantic, but Epic: Armageddon also used Alternate Activation, as did the rather excellent Betrayal at Calth. I have a feeling that some design principles may have made it from Calth to here - talk of Action Points for example. The pinning mechanism being that weapons such as bolters remove Tactical Points, reducing enemy actions. Works extremely well, and gives an actual reason to value a basic weapon.
Hey, I heard that Calth and Necromunda were the same designer...
Now if true that is an interesting bit of information. Gives me hope on quality and balance.
The man behind (the rather excellent) Calth is James Hewitt, who is currently also busy doing the alternatingly activating Adeptus Titanicus ruleset. It would not surprise me to see that he would also be in this project, given that the non-main games design team isn't very large. Which is a very good thing.
It would make me very happy to have a Calth-like rule set for Newcromunda, as it is thus far ruleswise the best thing GW has produced for years
You know, I've pretty much moved completely away from 40k and into AoS at this point, but damned if I'm not super excited for this release. I'm too new to the hobby to have ever played classic Necromunda, but it sounds fun as hell. Really like the Escher models, but I can't wait to see the other gangs!
Only in July, so potentially after all the work on Necromunda was finalised?
Yep, pretty much.
Sherrypie wrote:The man behind (the rather excellent) Calth is James Hewitt, who is currently also busy doing the alternatingly activating Adeptus Titanicus ruleset. It would not surprise me to see that he would also be in this project, given that the non-main games design team isn't very large. Which is a very good thing.
Actually, Titanicus has been done for a while. The rules were shown off at the Heresy Weekender in February. (And yeah, the Specialist Games team only had one writer / game designer...)
Yup. James Hewlett is active on twitter. He was the lead rules writer on betrayal at Calth, silver tower, Gorechosen, the slyvaneth battletome, bloodbowl, adeptus Titanicus and he said on twitter that Necromunda was his last job before leaving.
As has been said the rules for Adepticus Titanicus were complete a while ago.
He has since started up his own company called Needy cat games.
His resume pretty much encompasses the best GW products of the last three years, so I am pretty confident that Necromunda will be a very good game.
Chikout wrote: Yup. James Hewlett is active on twitter. He was the lead rules writer on betrayal at Calth, silver tower, Gorechosen, the slyvaneth battletome, bloodbowl, adeptus Titanicus and he said on twitter that Necromunda was his last job before leaving.
As has been said the rules for Adepticus Titanicus were complete a while ago.
He has since started up his own company called Needy cat games.
His resume pretty much encompasses the best GW products of the last three years, so I am pretty confident that Necromunda will be a very good game.
You can find him on twitter at @lagoon83, if anyone's interested.
Chikout wrote: Yup. James Hewlett is active on twitter. He was the lead rules writer on betrayal at Calth, silver tower, Gorechosen, the slyvaneth battletome, bloodbowl, adeptus Titanicus and he said on twitter that Necromunda was his last job before leaving.
As has been said the rules for Adepticus Titanicus were complete a while ago.
He has since started up his own company called Needy cat games.
His resume pretty much encompasses the best GW products of the last three years, so I am pretty confident that Necromunda will be a very good game.
Chikout wrote: Yup. James Hewlett is active on twitter. He was the lead rules writer on betrayal at Calth, silver tower, Gorechosen, the slyvaneth battletome, bloodbowl, adeptus Titanicus and he said on twitter that Necromunda was his last job before leaving.
As has been said the rules for Adepticus Titanicus were complete a while ago.
He has since started up his own company called Needy cat games.
His resume pretty much encompasses the best GW products of the last three years, so I am pretty confident that Necromunda will be a very good game.
You can find him on twitter at @lagoon83, if anyone's interested.
What a coincidence, his twitter is the same as your dakka profile... wait....
Chikout wrote: Yup. James Hewlett is active on twitter. He was the lead rules writer on betrayal at Calth, silver tower, Gorechosen, the slyvaneth battletome, bloodbowl, adeptus Titanicus and he said on twitter that Necromunda was his last job before leaving.
As has been said the rules for Adepticus Titanicus were complete a while ago.
He has since started up his own company called Needy cat games.
His resume pretty much encompasses the best GW products of the last three years, so I am pretty confident that Necromunda will be a very good game.
You can find him on twitter at @lagoon83, if anyone's interested.
Wait... wow. In this case... your games are great! Really, really great and fun. I wish you luck in your new working-career!
Chikout wrote: Yup. James Hewlett is active on twitter. He was the lead rules writer on betrayal at Calth, silver tower, Gorechosen, the slyvaneth battletome, bloodbowl, adeptus Titanicus and he said on twitter that Necromunda was his last job before leaving.
As has been said the rules for Adepticus Titanicus were complete a while ago.
He has since started up his own company called Needy cat games.
His resume pretty much encompasses the best GW products of the last three years, so I am pretty confident that Necromunda will be a very good game.
You can find him on twitter at @lagoon83, if anyone's interested.
Wait... wow. In this case... your games are great! Really, really great and fun. I wish you luck in your new working-career!
Ha! Thanks, glad you've enjoyed them. I do what I can. None of it's a solo job though, there are always loads of other awesome people giving input and point out stupid mistakes and fixing things. (At least, there were. Now I literally am working alone. Oops.)
EDIT: for example, I meant to write "pointing" and instead I wrote "point". See what I mean? I can barely writey sentences goodly.
EDIT EDIT: Enough about me though, get this thread back on topic before the mods notice.
All those rulesets that have been released are good apart from the Sylvaneth Battletome, I keep looking track of all their special abilities and some of the units and abilities were just ( and I hate using this term) too overpowered.
Chikout wrote: Yup. James Hewlett is active on twitter. He was the lead rules writer on betrayal at Calth, silver tower, Gorechosen, the slyvaneth battletome, bloodbowl, adeptus Titanicus and he said on twitter that Necromunda was his last job before leaving.
As has been said the rules for Adepticus Titanicus were complete a while ago.
He has since started up his own company called Needy cat games.
His resume pretty much encompasses the best GW products of the last three years, so I am pretty confident that Necromunda will be a very good game.
You can find him on twitter at @lagoon83, if anyone's interested.
Well I should have put 2 and 2 together. Now I feel mildy embarrassed. Really enjoyed the stuff you did at GW and looking forward to whatever comes next.
Chikout wrote: Yup. James Hewlett is active on twitter. He was the lead rules writer on betrayal at Calth, silver tower, Gorechosen, the slyvaneth battletome, bloodbowl, adeptus Titanicus and he said on twitter that Necromunda was his last job before leaving.
As has been said the rules for Adepticus Titanicus were complete a while ago.
He has since started up his own company called Needy cat games.
His resume pretty much encompasses the best GW products of the last three years, so I am pretty confident that Necromunda will be a very good game.
You can find him on twitter at @lagoon83, if anyone's interested.
Somewhere to complain if the abomination that is Ambush isn't fixed properly - yay
H.B.M.C. wrote:That sounds like a good idea to me.
I know not everyone liked them, but I thought the House weapon lists were a good idea, and not just to stop the proliferation of swords across all gangs.
I liked the house weapon lists, especially as tweaked by the NCE edition. IIRC the GW lists in "Underhive" made some weapons that the stock-from-GW-figures came modeled with illegal in starting gangs, but the NCE fixed that and did a bit of balancing as well.
I think house weapon lists are a great way to add a bit of variety in the gangs without extended weapon lists and are akin to the differences in skill charts.
MajorWesJanson wrote:Or have mostly shared weapons, but different gangs having different patterns, for visual distinctiveness.
EDITED FOR MISTAKEN ASSUMPTION ABOUT UNIQUE WEAPONS
They apparently made 2 unique gangs and the rest had almost all the same weapons. This pic isn't the clearest but gives some idea of this.
They were very deliberate about giving escher and Van Saar their own look and that extended to making gang specific sculpts of almost every weapon, but the other 4 gangs share weapons.
Looking here will give you a slightly clearer example:http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/11/welcome-to-the-underhive-minis-of-necromunda.html
I certainly wasn't fond of the house weapon lists. It didn't make much sense in the fluff, and it made it more difficult for people to kit out their converted models.
Having said all that, I'll think people will be more amenable to it if it's there from the beginning this time around as they won't notice their options being restricted.
Eilif wrote: In the original Necromunda that was mostly the case. There was some crossover, but by and large the gang each had their own version of the Lasgun, autogun, and the various pistols.
Going by that pic, everyone had identical lasguns and autoguns, with the exception of Escher and Van Saar. Kinda makes sense since they're probably mostly nicked from the PDF.
Cosmic Schwung wrote: I certainly wasn't fond of the house weapon lists. It didn't make much sense in the fluff, and it made it more difficult for people to kit out their converted models.
Having said all that, I'll think people will be more amenable to it if it's there from the beginning this time around as they won't notice their options being restricted.
Eilif wrote: In the original Necromunda that was mostly the case. There was some crossover, but by and large the gang each had their own version of the Lasgun, autogun, and the various pistols.
Going by that pic, everyone had identical lasguns and autoguns, with the exception of Escher and Van Saar. Kinda makes sense since they're probably mostly nicked from the PDF.
You know what, you're right!
Sorry about that. (I edited my comment above.)
I do hope the new versions are unique like the Van Saar and Escher of old though it won't matter too much to me as Goliath is probably the only gang I'll be collecting since I have a gang for each of the other major underhive houses already.
The house gang weapons were't nicked from the PDF, I think; rather they were taken directly from the manufacturing lines assembling the weapons.
Interestingly, the other four Houses used the same pattern lasgun as the Imperial Guard, but Catachan used the same laspistol as House Orlock while Cadia, Mordian and Praetoria used the same weapon as the Escher. The house Escher boltgun is also similar in design to the one used by the Soriritas.
AndrewGPaul wrote: The house gang weapons were't nicked from the PDF, I think; rather they were taken directly from the manufacturing lines assembling the weapons.
Interestingly, the other four Houses used the same pattern lasgun as the Imperial Guard, but Catachan used the same laspistol as House Orlock while Cadia, Mordian and Praetoria used the same weapon as the Escher. The house Escher boltgun is also similar in design to the one used by the Soriritas.
I think it's mostly just a factor of who designed them, although the pistols thing is interesting.
The Escher were designed by Jes Goodwin who also designed the Soritas.
The Van Saar were designed by Gary Morley.
The Orlocks, Cawdor, and Delaque were all designed by the Perry twins who also designed the 2e metal Imperial Guard and I imagine the plastic Catachans as well.
The Goliaths were also designed by Gary Morley, so it's interesting that he gave them the Perry guns rather than something else. Maybe the Van Saar stuff would have looked too small or too advanced on them.
Ratskins and Scavvies were also designed by the Perrys and had the same Perry guns.
Redemptionists were Morley and had mainly Perry guns with IIRC a Jes Goodwin/Escher shotgun, plus some unique special weapons.
There were a few one-offs (even apart from the Van Saar); I always liked the Orlock ganger and Ratskin Scout with the side-by-side break-action shotgun.
By the way, the Perry's autogun was intended to be reminiscent of the AK-47, while Jes' one is based on the M-16. Some later models from the Specialist Games releases mixed things up by having Escher-style autoguns with banana mags.
I realise that the weapons was just down to the designer, but I like the idea that different Houses had the contracts to supply different Imperial organisations.
From the video at least, it looks as if there wont be any platform terrain in the game box at all, and that it has cardboard board sections (not unlike Overkill)...all on the same level with a tiny bit of scatter terrain, bent and broken bulkheads and some ammo crates (which may actually just come with the GW shipping containers set). Any news on the price point at NOVA?
The board game has me even more interested in Necro.
Missed it the first time around by a couple of years, but was always intrigued. A board game approach would make it easier to get non-wargamers into it.
Images coming in a sec for folk who don't like vids..EDIT: Enjoy.
Goliaths:
Escher:
Tiles:
Squeeee:
And the rest of the stills I took - there's loads more angles in the vid but I'm too slow to catch 'em.
Spoiler:
Right off the bat, gotta say: SOLD. Holy crap what a different a cleaner, clearer paintjob makes for showing off the stunning models. Finally, GW female plastic models with exposed faces that look good(by which I mean, aesthetically interesting and well executed, not necessarily "hawt" etc). I do hope they include some of the older art in the book as well though - the new stuff looks great, but I'm not sure if it's really "proper" Necromunda without some of those mad black & white 90's pieces.
I really hope its not a board game style tile game. One of the coolest things about Necromunda for me was the terrain and dimensions the different levels brought to the game, shooting down, climbing up, falling off the edge etc.
In the video they have the board game style displayed and a terrain platform style. I hope its available in both or something...
raekone wrote: I really hope its not a board game style tile game. One of the coolest things about Necromunda for me was the terrain and dimensions the different levels brought to the game, shooting down, climbing up, falling off the edge etc.
In the video they have the board game style displayed and a terrain platform style. I hope its available in both or something...
Otherwise looks awesome
I will still buy it either way tbh.
<3 Necromunda
It might have rules for both, so you can play it out of the box with the board. If it did contain larger terrain with different levels it might get pricey. So on one hand i'm glad they are giving us this. Regardless the board looks pretty damn awesome and industrial.
raekone wrote: I really hope its not a board game style tile game. One of the coolest things about Necromunda for me was the terrain and dimensions the different levels brought to the game, shooting down, climbing up, falling off the edge etc.
In the video they have the board game style displayed and a terrain platform style. I hope its available in both or something...
I would imagine the tiles shown are Gw's way of making sure people are playing the game with tightly packed terrain without them needing to pack the box with a whole bunch of plastic scenery that needs assembly.
I imagine the book will have something like "units in necromunda move in inches. In this box we've given you tile with 1 inch squares, so you can choose to count squares or measure inches when using tiles..." to cover that, But really the chances that they'd make necromunda a board game when the terrain is most most people remember and love are slim.
Azreal13 wrote: Who the feth thought getting Lilly Allen to do the voiceover was a good idea?
I did a quick search but personally no idea abot that lady. The voice sounded appropiate having in account that I think it was supposed to be a Escher the one narrating the trailer.
Making it a board game and a game that works with scenery is a definite stroke of genius. I didn't expect to see new custom dice. So scatter dice make a return, and what are the other two?
lol @ lilly allen comment. I thought the same, for the Americans (I live in the US now), its like getting someone from the Jersey shore to do the voice over....
I just saw that closer look, looks like both styles will be playable.
I so excited about this. A board game that can also use terrain, and multi-part kits in the starter? Looks like most of the concerns have been addressed. I am so glad I put aside a bunch of my GenCon budget for this instead.
Also, I am noticing that the woman standing in the middle at the 58 second mark really does not fit in with the Escher aesthetic throughout the rest of the video. Could she be a member of one of the new factions they have been hinting at?
A very important detail that I have not seen posted. The rules for using regular terrain will be in a separate book. Not sure if this contains the full rules for the game or not.
If it does and you already have terrain and gangs you could just buy the book and start playing. This was the case with bloodbowl so hopefully it will be the same this time.
This info comes from warhammer weekly on YouTube.
They said the book will come out the same day as the boxed game.
Yodhrin wrote: Are those...are those plastic bulkheads I see there in that preview image?
where?
The double-wide ones and a couple of the singles look too 3d to be cardboard like the scatter barricades are, and there seems to be a few little plastic bits & bobs as well, so maybe one plastic sprue in each box along with the card tiles?
Fantastic idea to allow for terrain-based and tile-based games.
And it comes with tiles! This went from "Buy 1" to "Buy 2" in an instant (I own 5 sets of Necromunda already, plus Shadow War, so what's another 2?).
I'm 95% sold on the minis (if they're gigantic things that dwarf Primaris Marines then we have a problem). The dice... not sure I like the idea of including proprietary dice. But then again some of the sides just have a regular '5' so who the hell knows.
The doors are modeled after the old plastic bulkheads. Nice touch.
Goliath actually have me tempted to start them instead of waiting for Van Saar!!!! I can see so much potential for painting them up it's exciting! :-) and they won't be huge mini's they'll be in keeping with the new sizes but I doubt they will be drastically monstrous, they are only human after all;-)
H.B.M.C. wrote: Fantastic idea to allow for terrain-based and tile-based games.
And it comes with tiles! This went from "Buy 1" to "Buy 2" in an instant (I own 5 sets of Necromunda already, plus Shadow War, so what's another 2?).
I'm 95% sold on the minis (if they're gigantic things that dwarf Primaris Marines then we have a problem). The dice... not sure I like the idea of including proprietary dice. But then again some of the sides just have a regular '5' so who the hell knows.
The doors are modeled after the old plastic bulkheads. Nice touch.
I'm kind of wondering if they're actual dice, or just variable markers a la ModCubes. Does anyone have a scale shot of a marine near those plastic fence things? I'm pretty sure there's a clear shot of both a Goliath and an Escher next to one in the video.
It couldn't possibly be that people are expressing an honest aesthetic reaction to the preview pictures?
. Then upgrade to newer gangs as they come out. I always thought the genestealer cult bodies were tech enough for Van Saar, plastic Catchan were close to Orlocks. Chaos cultists for cawdor or redemption. Delaque are well represented by a third party manufacturer 
. I thought Spryer could be represented by mixing different dark eldar (winged dudes for yeld, wyches for jakara, others for the Malcadon. The Orrus was the only one I was having issues trying to work out.
. Are they potions or conditioners?
