Stormonu wrote:

Pseudomonas wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

There clearly is interaction, otherwise the Guilders and Ash Waste Nomads would have nothing to do. And if a gang can rustle up the money, there'll be someone to move them around.

The hives are hundreds if not thousands of miles apart though extremely hostile terrain so they aren't going to be walking and there is no way that a gang of underhivers would be able to get to the spire and its transport links. One of the central themes of Necromunda is that underhivers are stuck in the underhive, having them able to travel completely deflates that.

Ash waste nomands can travel but they are an exception and to be honest they are at least partly in the realm of fan fiction

Many of the hive cities are linked by ancient roadways and tunnels - most of which have collapsed or been overrun over the millenniums. Some hive cities are even stacked one within the bounds of each other, such as the Pentad on Necromunda itself.
Furthermore, even in the Necromunda books underhivers have used powered watercraft to hunt for Spyders in the deep realms of the underhive. It's not unfeasible that junkcraft of various sorts has made it way into or been built in the underhive, allowing for the occasional transport between hive cities.

I'm going back to Confrontation here, but it had a diagram that showed a typical hive being ~30 miles across at the base, and three or four hives in a radius of 100 miles. At least one Hive in the Palatine/Primus cluster was a transport nexus for the cluster and the planet as a whole, with plenty of merchants based there for that reason.

I'm quite happy to accept that it's very rare; but we're talking about a volume of several hundred cubic miles and a population in the billions; "very rare" is fine and still allows plenty of scope for games. Alternatively, different hives are different settings. Not keen on houses Escher, Orlock and Cawdor? How about houses Giger, Schreck and Glamis in Hive Secundus?

I think a much more fruitful approach to new houses would be to use something other than houses such as: Mid hive mercenaries, 'Beast House' trapping expeditions, Guilder enforcers etc.

Pseudomonas wrote:
I think a much more fruitful approach to new houses would be to use something other than houses such as: Mid hive mercenaries, 'Beast House' trapping expeditions, Guilder enforcers etc.

Agreed. GW loves to work with archetypes. Adding more gangs would probably just result in overlap. Escher are the chem gang now? Well, did you know there's another chem gang in that other hive? But wait for it! Made entirely out of dudes!

Adding more exotic groups would be a better way of broadening selection.

Pseudomonas wrote:
I think a much more fruitful approach to new houses would be to use something other than houses such as: Mid hive mercenaries, 'Beast House' trapping expeditions, Guilder enforcers etc.

Well, yes. However I'm at work, and not at the Specialist Games studio, so I wasn't going to think up those other ideas. Look back in this thread at some of the comments attributed to the Specialist Games team for ideas they've already had.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Marksman, at least to me, feels so powerful because noone else could pick a target, but if given to everyone, wouldn't be that good because you could target your enemy best shots that stands in the back.

And as for '' the grunt perspective '', well being a grunt myself (albeit I've never been deployed in actual combat mission), we tend to shoot at the biggest threat, wether or not they're the closest is irrevelant. What matters is what they're packing, and taking them out as quick as possible, even if they're 100-150 meters away from the group with rifles (and personally, I've been trained to reliably hit targets at ranges of 300 meters so its not a matter of feeling you can reliably hit the target, unless they're set up out of range of my rifle)

I think the point, though, is that these are untrained fighters, not the planet's militia. They are more likely to panic and fire at the closest threat rather than think tactically and fire at the guy with the biggest gun. That's why marksman made sense as a skill, it represented these untrained fighters learning the value in prioritizing certain targets.

It makes sense in Necro, I suppose, but not in Shadow War, where you got Space Special Forces and mutated Space Special Forces amongsts other well trained soldiers.

Yeah, you got me there. Although to be perfectly honest GW probably only put as much thought into Shadow War as they had to in order to get it out the door. That much is evident by the somewhat boring rules most of the non core-box factions got.

I seriously doubt any real consideration was given to it 'making sense'.

Closest Enemy rule worked as intended. Otherwise there're no reason to shoot at anything other than Leader and Specialist. You can always shoot at a further target if the hit chance is higher (cover, +1 sniper weapon) Hello Assassination mission, wow fun game!

Nobody want their leader and specialists down/pinned first turn or injured/dead first game and be left with recruit/troop with terrible weapons. Is it fun if the leader is dead after first game because Skitarii guy taking potshot at him? How could the Chaos Champion even get to CC with that rule anyway? because the moment he peak out he'll be a beehive.

It will eventually turn into a crawl paced game where you're forced to hide leader, specialists and crawl slowly/overwatch toward each other, which defeat the whole point of it being a fast-paced game in the first place. And it became a joke when you bring that in campaign, because most people would rather restart campaign/make new gang after first game until they can have the first game where they can take out the enemy leader.

How it is intended to play : take out recruit/troop and sometime specialist if they're careless, force the leader to either bottle out voluntarily or with a failed roll.

Well it grates my suspension of disbelief way too much. No matter how well it would make a game work.

Awkwardly enough, that's how I killed Shadow War Armageddon at the local store. I played Skitarii and tabled my chaos opponent on the first turn by "sniping" his leader with the Transuranic Arquebus paired with an Omnispex held by the Alpha and focusing on his regular Marines over his cultists. He already played with few models, so taking out some forced him into a bottle test and well.. it's not often I'm hated for playing a game. I got gak for that some time after.

The closest model rule is probably one of the more realistic ones in the game. When you are under fire it takes a very calm head to not fire at the closest target that is blazing away back at you or charging at you with a large weapon intent on inserting said weapon into you.

 vonjankmon wrote:
The closest model rule is probably one of the more realistic ones in the game. When you are under fire it takes a very calm head to not fire at the closest target that is blazing away back at you or charging at you with a large weapon intent on inserting said weapon into you.

My concern is more how it plays. I'm not a fan because except for the odd case in which a target further away is easier to hit, it eliminates player choice. On both sides, too. The shooter's player has no choice but to shoot the closest target, and the target's player has reason not to screen their valuable models with chaff.

It also affects how you assemble gangs, making deliberately worthless cannon fodder and focusing your attempts to create powerful gangers to hide behind these instead of spreading out gear and talent.

Finally, just as with lane sniping in 4th or 5th ed 40k, you can circumvent this targeting rule in a very gamey way by positioning you models in such a way that the preferred target is inside your 90° arc but the cannon fodder is not.

I doubt you could just throw out the rule and keep everything else the same. Assassination has been named as an example already. But if we get an overhaul of the rules anyway, I hope this is a rule we're not going to see anymore.

 vonjankmon wrote:
The closest model rule is probably one of the more realistic ones in the game. When you are under fire it takes a very calm head to not fire at the closest target that is blazing away back at you or charging at you with a large weapon intent on inserting said weapon into you.

You have decided to interject with logic and common sense into this forum. The closest mod has been notified and a brief discussion about the length of your ban is underway.

 Geifer wrote:

My concern is more how it plays. I'm not a fan because except for the odd case in which a target further away is easier to hit, it eliminates player choice. On both sides, too. ... But if we get an overhaul of the rules anyway, I hope this is a rule we're not going to see anymore.

If I had to pick a rule not to see in the new game, it would be pinning on a hit. I get that it gives the game a deeper level of tactics, but I just don't like games where the stuff you do with your models is so drastically restricted. One of the reasons the game died super fast at a local store was that new players are easily caught off guard and end up having a large portion of their models pinned and have sort of a grind of an experience. I've seen turns where a new player basically does nothing. That's really awful for a game demo. People don't come back to games where they basically don't play.

8th edition definitely has a "you can always do what you want with your models" approach and I hope that is present in this game as well.

It's frustrating, but then I'm not a fan of modern games where the player has perfect control of their armies. the "shoot the closest target" rule might not be an exact reflection of "reality", but it demonstrates that your underlings don't always do exactly what yu want when you want them to. Likewise for pinning; those hapless gangers might not want to rush out into the teeth of enemy fire just because you want them to soak up some bullets as a distraction.

Removing things like that makes it more of a game and less of a simulation (however imprecise) of an "actual" battle. It's one of the main reasons I went off Warmachine and Malifaux. I never felt like I was ordering Zealots and Flameguard and whatnot across a battlefield - just moving meeples on a board.

 Geifer wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:
The closest model rule is probably one of the more realistic ones in the game. When you are under fire it takes a very calm head to not fire at the closest target that is blazing away back at you or charging at you with a large weapon intent on inserting said weapon into you.

My concern is more how it plays. I'm not a fan because except for the odd case in which a target further away is easier to hit, it eliminates player choice. On both sides, too. The shooter's player has no choice but to shoot the closest target, and the target's player has reason not to screen their valuable models with chaff.

It also affects how you assemble gangs, making deliberately worthless cannon fodder and focusing your attempts to create powerful gangers to hide behind these instead of spreading out gear and talent.

Finally, just as with lane sniping in 4th or 5th ed 40k, you can circumvent this targeting rule in a very gamey way by positioning you models in such a way that the preferred target is inside your 90° arc but the cannon fodder is not.

I doubt you could just throw out the rule and keep everything else the same. Assassination has been named as an example already. But if we get an overhaul of the rules anyway, I hope this is a rule we're not going to see anymore.

I get where you are coming from but in practice (years ago in old Necromunda) tended to be that you could protect your heavy and leader if you stuck them in the *far* back but due to the multi level nature of the terrain and the LOS blocking it did it was next to impossible to set 1-2 models in front and make your opponent only fire at them. This is one of my biggest concerns with the game as they are releasing it, people may not realize it but the type of terrain in the original Necromunda played a large role in the correct function of the game. Now the new game could function totally differently and the closest model rule may be unnecessary or not function properly as you outlined but I am really not interested in a small scale game of 40K with gangers. I personally want the feeling of battling in the underhive that the original portrayed so well.

Sorry, mis-read the post.

 Chamberlain wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

My concern is more how it plays. I'm not a fan because except for the odd case in which a target further away is easier to hit, it eliminates player choice. On both sides, too. ... But if we get an overhaul of the rules anyway, I hope this is a rule we're not going to see anymore.

If I had to pick a rule not to see in the new game, it would be pinning on a hit. I get that it gives the game a deeper level of tactics, but I just don't like games where the stuff you do with your models is so drastically restricted. One of the reasons the game died super fast at a local store was that new players are easily caught off guard and end up having a large portion of their models pinned and have sort of a grind of an experience. I've seen turns where a new player basically does nothing. That's really awful for a game demo. People don't come back to games where they basically don't play.

8th edition definitely has a "you can always do what you want with your models" approach and I hope that is present in this game as well.

Agreed. I'm partial to pinning the Bolt Action way because it allows the troop quality to play a role and gives the shooting player the option to concentrate fire for better effect on a single unit or spread out the love to gamble for more pinned units, or anything in between. I always found original Necromunda pinning harsh and taking away player choice.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It's frustrating, but then I'm not a fan of modern games where the player has perfect control of their armies. the "shoot the closest target" rule might not be an exact reflection of "reality", but it demonstrates that your underlings don't always do exactly what yu want when you want them to. Likewise for pinning; those hapless gangers might not want to rush out into the teeth of enemy fire just because you want them to soak up some bullets as a distraction.

Removing things like that makes it more of a game and less of a simulation (however imprecise) of an "actual" battle. It's one of the main reasons I went off Warmachine and Malifaux. I never felt like I was ordering Zealots and Flameguard and whatnot across a battlefield - just moving meeples on a board.

I'm really advocating for a middle of the road approach. I share your dislike for perfect control over your troops, but I also dislike an equally reliable way for your opponent to control your troops.

I'm actually (and possibly foolishly) hopeful in that regard. If they're bringing back diversified leadership from Rogue Trader, one assumes they want morale to have greater impact. Like, let's go with pinning. That was an I test for the ganger, if they had a nanny to hold their hand. I understand the reasoning behind this, but that could have been a simple LD test instead. Side benefit? Booze that boosts LD helps gangers not get pinned, but doesn't exactly help their life expectancy either, what with all the bullets flying around. I could totally see that. More importantly, I want to see that. It also helps a stat that isn't used all that often but easily gain from advances.

 vonjankmon wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:
The closest model rule is probably one of the more realistic ones in the game. When you are under fire it takes a very calm head to not fire at the closest target that is blazing away back at you or charging at you with a large weapon intent on inserting said weapon into you.

My concern is more how it plays. I'm not a fan because except for the odd case in which a target further away is easier to hit, it eliminates player choice. On both sides, too. The shooter's player has no choice but to shoot the closest target, and the target's player has reason not to screen their valuable models with chaff.

It also affects how you assemble gangs, making deliberately worthless cannon fodder and focusing your attempts to create powerful gangers to hide behind these instead of spreading out gear and talent.

Finally, just as with lane sniping in 4th or 5th ed 40k, you can circumvent this targeting rule in a very gamey way by positioning you models in such a way that the preferred target is inside your 90° arc but the cannon fodder is not.

I doubt you could just throw out the rule and keep everything else the same. Assassination has been named as an example already. But if we get an overhaul of the rules anyway, I hope this is a rule we're not going to see anymore.

I get where you are coming from but in practice (years ago in old Necromunda) tended to be that you could protect your heavy and leader if you stuck them in the *far* back but due to the multi level nature of the terrain and the LOS blocking it did it was next to impossible to set 1-2 models in front and make your opponent only fire at them. This is one of my biggest concerns with the game as they are releasing it, people may not realize it but the type of terrain in the original Necromunda played a large role in the correct function of the game. Now the new game could function totally differently and the closest model rule may be unnecessary or not function properly as you outlined but I am really not interested in a small scale game of 40K with gangers. I personally want the feeling of battling in the underhive that the original portrayed so well.

Terrain is tough to incorporate. As a designer, you probably have a vision or else plenty of play testing to tell you what's ideal, and putting that in the rulebook to help players won't hurt either. But honestly? When I started playing Necromunda, I had the box contents and a couple of 40k terrain pieces. And the game worked. Later on I had much more dense terrain. And the game worked. I occasionally played on flat boards (with enough terrain, of course) and the game worked. It didn't work the same, but it worked. I'm not going to go and say it worked equally well and the designers delivered a masterpiece without even realizing it. But I think they created a ruleset that's good for what it's intended to do but also allows you to deviate from the ideal without ruining the game experience.

Why am I saying this? This is how new Necromunda needs to work (according to me anyway). They have tunnel fighting now, as the default to boot. I cannot imagine that their wonderful Day 1 DLC dramatically revises the core rules, and instead just builds on them. That's not going to work well if you have notable differences in how these things should play out.

I imagine with tunnel fighting the problem with targeting the nearest unit becomes even more pronounced because of the limited room to maneuver. Then it opens up in 3D games and all of a sudden you can, going with your experience, circumvent meat shields? There could be a pretty big gap between the demands of these two game modes, and until I see otherwise I'm going to assume the designers made a ruleset that works similarly in each one. Simply because then there will be one core ruleset which everything works off of, and if you have something like that, restrictions that only work in one part are likely to be dropped because they don't work in the other part. That's my take anyway.

I mean, I'm with you on wanting a proper underhive feel to the game, but as I said above, I'm more the middle of the road guy and I think you could still portray the untrained gangers with a really low leadership used for pinning tests with campaign advancements allowing them to become better and more controlled under fire, while giving them higher leadership for other things to represent their dogged fighting spirit.

I wouldn't pin it all on a single rule. Or 2D versus 3D for that matter. It's the complete package that matters* to me.



*Insert comment about having zero faith in GW's ability to provide that.

Guys, did you miss that Cool, Intelligence, and Willpower are back in the game? If Pinning isn’t a Cl test and Target Priority an Int test then something has gone wrong.

Some if you fellers are putting an awful lot of thought into ways that mean you'll not have think during games.

Necromunda deals with allot of complicated situations reasonable nicely that are usually ignored/abstracted out in allot of other games.

The closest target rule deals with battlefield confusion/light/smoke without complicated Fog of War or spotting mechanics. It also promotes tactical manoeuvre and the concept of gangs roving and scraping in the Underhive which is at the core of this game.

Ditto pinning. By the way Leadership influence here the the presence of other gangers which allow pinned models to break pinning and the use of the Leaders LD. If new players are getting pinned out of turns then they either don't get it or aren't really in a Demo rather being used as target practice.

Sorry fellers I don't get the complaints. It's a reasonably balance ruleset that has stood the test of time quite well.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say any long term Nerco player that moans about these rule has a Van Sarr gang armed with nothing but Lasguns and Plasma that they deploy in tower then never move. "Hiding is also OP and people that use it all the time are boring".

One thought. Are we supposed to add scatter terrain to the board pieces, or only use what comes in the box?

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
One thought. Are we supposed to add scatter terrain to the board pieces, or only use what comes in the box?

From what I can surmise LOS in the basic game can't cross a wall. There would be no reason why you couldn't add scatter terrain as well - but the missions might be balanced with the boards as supplied. That said - we used to add 3D components to Calth to add a sense of realism.

When we started playing Necromunda we did four things:

1. We ignored ammo rolls.
2. We ignored closest target.
3. We ignored pinning.
4. Everyone got an advance after every game.

We were wrong about all 4 changes we made. Each of the above is vital to the way Necromunda works (or worked, given the new edition is going to be quite different).

Often house ruling away a part you don't like just makes the game not work. House rule away multiple parts and the whole thing can easily collapse.

The interesting thing about shooting the closest, pinning, ammo rolls etc., is that the degree they are implemented will be within this alternating activation approach, so they will likely produce a very different experience when it's full on IGOUGO.

Since I'm not interested in the miniatures or the tiles or the funny dice, it'll be how good the ebook version of the rules is that determines whether I spend any money on necromunda or just keep playing 8th with individual model activation like I have been for my Inquisimunda games for the last couple months.

Any word on enforcers?

usmcmidn wrote:
Any word on enforcers?

The only word we have on those is that they want to get all those with official rules back into Necromunda eventually.

With the new sculpting tech and techniques the Enforcers could look rly good. I'm hoping for good things.

 vonjankmon wrote:
Anyone have some good links to sites either selling files for 3D printers or laser cut terrain in the US that would work for Necromunda? Seems like every laser cut terrain shop I find with terrain that would work well for the old style of multi level is based in Europe. I don't want to have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping a bunch of wood.

A company called Printable Scenery do some nice 40k themed stuff, it could easily be used for Necromunda.

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/gothic-pipelines/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/hab-blocks/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/40kw-generator/

They are also doing a Kick Starter for more Gothic styled sci to stuff.

 Runicmadhamster wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:
Anyone have some good links to sites either selling files for 3D printers or laser cut terrain in the US that would work for Necromunda? Seems like every laser cut terrain shop I find with terrain that would work well for the old style of multi level is based in Europe. I don't want to have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping a bunch of wood.

A company called Printable Scenery do some nice 40k themed stuff, it could easily be used for Necromunda.

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/gothic-pipelines/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/hab-blocks/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/40kw-generator/

They are also doing a Kick Starter for more Gothic styled sci to stuff.

What would be a good 3d printer for doing this kind of stuff?

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Runicmadhamster wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:
Anyone have some good links to sites either selling files for 3D printers or laser cut terrain in the US that would work for Necromunda? Seems like every laser cut terrain shop I find with terrain that would work well for the old style of multi level is based in Europe. I don't want to have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping a bunch of wood.

A company called Printable Scenery do some nice 40k themed stuff, it could easily be used for Necromunda.

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/gothic-pipelines/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/hab-blocks/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/40kw-generator/

They are also doing a Kick Starter for more Gothic styled sci to stuff.

What would be a good 3d printer for doing this kind of stuff?

The Wanhoa Duplicator i3 is a pretty good printer to start with, its cheap (roughly 400 USD i think, last time i checked) and not too bad for quality.

The Prusa i3 is also a good choice. Easy to operate and maintain, its 700 USD thought, so just a bit more costly.

I wonder if the Shoot Out scenario will make a return, that was a great mission.

 vonjankmon wrote:
The closest model rule is probably one of the more realistic ones in the game. When you are under fire it takes a very calm head to not fire at the closest target that is blazing away back at you or charging at you with a large weapon intent on inserting said weapon into you.

Heck, I've played enough games of League of Legends where everyone beats on the tank with the damage potential of a wet sponge, and totally ignore the marksman standing just behind them blowing people up.

 Runicmadhamster wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Runicmadhamster wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:
Anyone have some good links to sites either selling files for 3D printers or laser cut terrain in the US that would work for Necromunda? Seems like every laser cut terrain shop I find with terrain that would work well for the old style of multi level is based in Europe. I don't want to have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping a bunch of wood.

A company called Printable Scenery do some nice 40k themed stuff, it could easily be used for Necromunda.

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/gothic-pipelines/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/hab-blocks/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/40kw-generator/

They are also doing a Kick Starter for more Gothic styled sci to stuff.

What would be a good 3d printer for doing this kind of stuff?

The Wanhoa Duplicator i3 is a pretty good printer to start with, its cheap (roughly 400 USD i think, last time i checked) and not too bad for quality.

The Prusa i3 is also a good choice. Easy to operate and maintain, its 700 USD thought, so just a bit more costly.

Thanks for the info

 Runicmadhamster wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Runicmadhamster wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:
Anyone have some good links to sites either selling files for 3D printers or laser cut terrain in the US that would work for Necromunda? Seems like every laser cut terrain shop I find with terrain that would work well for the old style of multi level is based in Europe. I don't want to have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping a bunch of wood.

A company called Printable Scenery do some nice 40k themed stuff, it could easily be used for Necromunda.

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/gothic-pipelines/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/hab-blocks/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/40kw-generator/

They are also doing a Kick Starter for more Gothic styled sci to stuff.

What would be a good 3d printer for doing this kind of stuff?

The Wanhoa Duplicator i3 is a pretty good printer to start with, its cheap (roughly 400 USD i think, last time i checked) and not too bad for quality.

The Prusa i3 is also a good choice. Easy to operate and maintain, its 700 USD thought, so just a bit more costly.

It might also be worthwhile trying to find out what 3D printers are publicly available in your area - we have one at one of the local libraries. (Use is free, but you have to pay for the material.)

The Auld Grump - they had a Maker Fair there not all that long ago.

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Runicmadhamster wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Runicmadhamster wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:
Anyone have some good links to sites either selling files for 3D printers or laser cut terrain in the US that would work for Necromunda? Seems like every laser cut terrain shop I find with terrain that would work well for the old style of multi level is based in Europe. I don't want to have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping a bunch of wood.

A company called Printable Scenery do some nice 40k themed stuff, it could easily be used for Necromunda.

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/gothic-pipelines/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/hab-blocks/

http://www.printablescenery.com/product/40kw-generator/

They are also doing a Kick Starter for more Gothic styled sci to stuff.

What would be a good 3d printer for doing this kind of stuff?

The Wanhoa Duplicator i3 is a pretty good printer to start with, its cheap (roughly 400 USD i think, last time i checked) and not too bad for quality.

The Prusa i3 is also a good choice. Easy to operate and maintain, its 700 USD thought, so just a bit more costly.

Thanks for the info

No worries.

AS an aside, i just backed the current printable scenery Kick Starter. One of the things that KS offers, is STL files for Sci-Fi/Industrial walkways that could fit in nicely with Necromunda.

From White Dwarf

It's on the horizon!!! Exciting times. First post btw. Love this place

Also kudos to the photographer for taking a proper picture that shows everything.

New art is great art, so far. Best part is showing a proper veteran with a bionic and the exclusive Power Hair upgrade…

Hey when did they start getting inspired by the old Blanch artwork, when he was doing artwork and it was good?

Wonder if that would be an actual model, cool artwork inspired from a classical piece though.

Really looking forward to this. Always enjoyed putting together gangs and as projects they are of a nice size to paint and really put that extra bit of effort into.

White Dwarf teaser - from Miniwars.eu / Bitzbox



Next month!

I'm not sure how reliable that info from the AGM is, but it did mention that they want to have more support for Necromunda from the get go (as opposed to BB) and have more gangs available at launch or very soon after. Cawdor got a specific mention, so perhaps they will be out soon too. That with this ad saying "plenty of releases over the coming months," gives me some hope we might see another gang or two at launch, or at worst in December.

@Psychoticstorm: I did think she was perhaps a misplaced Shadespire Amazon or the like but looking closer I see her left arm and leg are mechanical.

So perhaps the Amazonian Gotheique is returning as a Pit Fighter of some sort?

Yes, I saw the bionics, it is a fantastic rendition and modernisation of an old classic to another genre.

 BjornRuss wrote:
From White Dwarf

Spoiler:

Oh my goodness, look at the difference in scale between the pictured female that dominates the page and the already seen Eschers in the picture below it! Is this hinting at an even further extreme scale change?!

oh christ, don't mention scale again!!

They're certainly going to need a separate door for their hair...

I hope the other gangs come swiftly as hinted at, if only to get some diversity from the start. Not sure if Necromunda will catch on at my local store, but I don't think it'll do well if we only have Goliath and Escher for four or more weeks. Blood Bowl certainly did not take off with the glacial release of teams.

I'm mostly just curious to see what aesthetic they'll keep for the other four gangs.

I'm hoping that they're keeping some of the pseudo-western vibe that the originals had.

Of course if the gangs do come swiftly players will then start complaining that the game is neglected and is going to die because the obvious new releases are done

the endless problem of support

 Geifer wrote:
They're certainly going to need a separate door for their hair...

I hope the other gangs come swiftly as hinted at, if only to get some diversity from the start. Not sure if Necromunda will catch on at my local store, but I don't think it'll do well if we only have Goliath and Escher for four or more weeks. Blood Bowl certainly did not take off with the glacial release of teams.

My guess is we'll see at least two new gangs the same week or the week after the box set.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Of course if the gangs do come swiftly players will then start complaining that the game is neglected and is going to die because the obvious new releases are done

the endless problem of support

If they get the core six gang out straight away? I doubt people will complain (except about the scale, and Delaques if they feth them up... though that last part may just be me). Besides, once the six core are done they can move onto revamping the other things:

1. Scavvies
2. Ratskin Renegades.
3. Redemptionists.
4. Spyrers (I still think a plastic Yeld would look amazing!).
5. Enforcers/Arbites.
6. Pit Slaves.
7. Official rules for Genestealer Cults.
8. Chaos Cults.
9. FW doing resin Bounty Hunters, Scum, Wyrds and other things.
10. Squat Miners.

Man, I hope hired guns will be plastic kits, and leave the SC's to resin.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Of course if the gangs do come swiftly players will then start complaining that the game is neglected and is going to die because the obvious new releases are done

the endless problem of support

Are you suggesting, sir, that some people will complain regardless?

How absurd.

Dread Master wrote:
Man, I hope hired guns will be plastic kits, and leave the SC's to resin.

Awesome idea. Plastic character mini-sprues with the principal weapon options for the class….

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Besides, once the six core are done they can move onto revamping the other things:

1. Scavvies
2. Ratskin Renegades.
3. Redemptionists.
4. Spyrers (I still think a plastic Yeld would look amazing!).
5. Enforcers/Arbites.
6. Pit Slaves.
7. Official rules for Genestealer Cults.
8. Chaos Cults.
9. FW doing resin Bounty Hunters, Scum, Wyrds and other things.
10. Squat Miners.

This +1000.

I've got a collection of the old Escher and Goliath gang miniatures, so those are still the factions I intend to play. Once I pick up any new figures for those two gangs, the next thing I'm likely to spend money on would be from this list.

Plastic arbites are going to print GW money from all the IG conversions that will use that kit.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Of course if the gangs do come swiftly players will then start complaining that the game is neglected and is going to die because the obvious new releases are done

the endless problem of support

They could do what they did with Kal Jericho and move it beyond Necromunda - he became a member of an Inquisitors retinue and boarded a space hulk iirc (said inquisitor being his mum, bizarrely). An Inq28 spin off would go down well with fans.

Promethius wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Of course if the gangs do come swiftly players will then start complaining that the game is neglected and is going to die because the obvious new releases are done

the endless problem of support

They could do what they did with Kal Jericho and move it beyond Necromunda - he became a member of an Inquisitors retinue and boarded a space hulk iirc (said inquisitor being his mum, bizarrely). An Inq28 spin off would go down well with fans.

Eventually some sort of INQ28 conversion book would be a really cool addition. You could toss in some rules for an Inquisition retinue, Genestealer cults, Chaos Cultists, Rogue traders and a couple other factions, along with a few new items and scenarios and I bet it would sell like hotcakes. I know I would scoop up a copy very quickly.

On a more related noted, the community hint picture was some sort of ornate looking looking eagle, could possibly be an Arbite shoulder pad (though I will admit I much prefer the less blinged out later versions of the Arbites).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Of course if the gangs do come swiftly players will then start complaining that the game is neglected and is going to die because the obvious new releases are done

the endless problem of support

If they get the core six gang out straight away? I doubt people will complain (except about the scale, and Delaques if they feth them up... though that last part may just be me). Besides, once the six core are done they can move onto revamping the other things:

1. Scavvies
2. Ratskin Renegades.
3. Redemptionists.
4. Spyrers (I still think a plastic Yeld would look amazing!).
5. Enforcers/Arbites.
6. Pit Slaves.
7. Official rules for Genestealer Cults.
8. Chaos Cults.
9. FW doing resin Bounty Hunters, Scum, Wyrds and other things.
10. Squat Miners.

I suspect GSC will be the first of these out the gate and may show up even before the rest of the core gangs via a WD article. They require zero new miniatures and have a wide variety to pull from currently on sale.

 silent25 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Of course if the gangs do come swiftly players will then start complaining that the game is neglected and is going to die because the obvious new releases are done

the endless problem of support

If they get the core six gang out straight away? I doubt people will complain (except about the scale, and Delaques if they feth them up... though that last part may just be me). Besides, once the six core are done they can move onto revamping the other things:

1. Scavvies
2. Ratskin Renegades.
3. Redemptionists.
4. Spyrers (I still think a plastic Yeld would look amazing!).
5. Enforcers/Arbites.
6. Pit Slaves.
7. Official rules for Genestealer Cults.
8. Chaos Cults.
9. FW doing resin Bounty Hunters, Scum, Wyrds and other things.
10. Squat Miners.

I suspect GSC will be the first of these out the gate and may show up even before the rest of the core gangs via a WD article. They require zero new miniatures and have a wide variety to pull from currently on sale.

I'll bet they get a Necromunda bundle of some sort.

Will this be so different from Blood Bowl re-release and why?

With Blood Bowl, we've seen a slow release of teams (5-6 teams the first 10 months). Also the box sets don't include all the models you want so you need wait (half of the teams are still incomplete) and eventually pay up to get the team complete. I'm worried they release a handfull of gangs now, but then have to wait 6 months until you can buy "heavies" or something similarly cruical beyond the initial newbie game.

And let's hope GW learned by the huge interest to increase the amount of products in stock, because a lot of Blood Bowl products sold out within minutes and ended up selling at morbid prices on ebay. Some products didn't restock until half a year later.

Anyway these are exciting news, really looking forward to get up-to-date necromunda models!

In the past, gang boxes always included every type of ganger, I don't see why this should be different now. Sure, it might not include every type of Heavy or special weapon, but simple convertions makes that a non-issue.

Mostly because all the previews have shown no heavies, even in full gang shots. Suggests there are none in the box

Ahh yes the original boxes were pretty much complete.

Do we really need chaos cultist models for Necromunda? GW released a great set some years ago of Chaos Cultists, even came with flamer, shotgun, autoguns, autopistols and a heavy stubber! They should fit perfectly for Necromunda.

Remember heavies could take heavy or special weapons - the Escher with the Tox gun and the Goliath with the big "repurposed industrial equipment" gun both look like they could be Heavies from the box carrying gang-specific Special weapons



1-4 are Outlanders gangs. they can't get away with not doing them, people would riot - especially if they released new gangs before them.

5) are a strong maybe. we begged for Arbites for years and ended up with Enforcers, so hopefully they dont get further watered down

6) Kind of a long shot. they were introduced pretty early (around the 2nd-3rd ed 40K transition IIRC) so have a good chance, and could easily be done in plastic. the Poxwalker with a bionic arm gives me hope of the level of detail they could achieve

7) Unlikely for a while. Yes, GSCs have official models and rules now, so the outlay would be minimal, but GSCs were always the plan for the Hive Secondus project, which has been sporadically mentioned but never actually acted on since the early 90's...

8) Less likely than 7

9) FW already do some renegade psykers that fit the bill (before Inquisitor changed Wyrd from meaning "Dangerously unstable, untrained psyker" to "Able to pull of no-risk psychic powers flawlessly"). Would love to see some bounty hunters and expansion packs, but I don't really see the need, we'll have plenty of kits to kitbash hired guns out of

10) I admire your optimism. I'd rather see Brats and Hive Prospectors, personally

Vorian wrote:
Mostly because all the previews have shown no heavies, even in full gang shots. Suggests there are none in the box

I'm talking about the gang boxes, the Necromunda box didn't have any heavies either.

It had 4 pose starter models. Hardly a fair comparison.

 Mymearan wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Mostly because all the previews have shown no heavies, even in full gang shots. Suggests there are none in the box

I'm talking about the gang boxes, the Necromunda box didn't have any heavies either.

Yeah, but these are the gang boxes, not starter set miniatures

Vorian wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Mostly because all the previews have shown no heavies, even in full gang shots. Suggests there are none in the box

I'm talking about the gang boxes, the Necromunda box didn't have any heavies either.

Yeah, but these are the gang boxes, not starter set miniatures

There are pics of gang boxes out? Where?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It had 4 pose starter models. Hardly a fair comparison.

Why not? They could've easily put some Heavy weapons in there to fit on the mono-pose dudes.

Vorian wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Mostly because all the previews have shown no heavies, even in full gang shots. Suggests there are none in the box

I'm talking about the gang boxes, the Necromunda box didn't have any heavies either.

Yeah, but these are the gang boxes, not starter set miniatures

I'm assuming that, same as with Blood Bowl, gang boxes from the gangs in the core will be made up of the sprues in the core.

I'm hoping we're getting a quite different rule set now with more modern mechanics. Other games has introduced great new game mechanics for skirmish games. While I love the previous Necromunda rules, I have played it again and again over the years and so I'm hoping for something new. Unlike Blood Bowl where the new rules were almost identical to the previous except some optional changes to league play. I think that was a right decision there, but not for Necromunda 2017/18.

Are there a summary of new game mechanics or changes to the previous rules?

Just a load of rumours that the OP hasn't added to the first post for some reason. Bad OP, bad.

"Game loosely based on 8th but expanded mechanics. Intergrates turn sequence, model by model activation. Leaders and champions help.."
"By activating additional models, juices need to be near others to guarantee activation"
"Action based and with the full Rogue Trader stat line...."
"More skill tables including leader and trade ones."
"Plastic gangs and then outlanders then expanding to new gangs!!!! Takes time."
"Working of John Blanche original sketch book for more awesome stuff. Release should be November slot. First 6 gangs release schedule sorted.

"We have an info dump of information for you from speaking to the amazing Specialist Games veteran designer Andy Hoare at The Forge World Open Day 2017.

So we are broadly looking at a game based on the 8th Edition 40k mechanics, but tailored to skirmish warfare. We see the edition of Action Points, that can be used to active gangers in a similar way to how Space Hulk works. Different actions will cost different points, such as activating a Heavy will cost two Action Points, whereas your run of the mill Ganger will cost only one.

We are looking at a release schedule much like BloodBlowl, this is the ‘Preview’, launch of the initial box set will follow in the same sort of timescale as from when BloodBowl was ‘Previewed’ then launched.

The box itself will contain the Escher and Goliath gangers we have seen already, the rules, accoutrements and most likely Shadow War terrain. The Specialist Games studio do not have the resources to produce terrain solely for Necromunda, so they are trail blazing the Shadow War release with all the cool terrain that was released with that boxed set, and subsequently in individual kits until present. The rules will allow for play in the way we are used to on gangways, ramps and gantries, but also in tunnels making use of the Zone Mortalis tiles available from Forge World.

We will see all the gangs from Hive Primus return, along with the gangs from Outlanders and Fanatic. We will also see new gangs and some expansion of the fluff on Necromunda.

HIVE SECONDUS was written about in the Fanatic days, a Hive overrun by Genstealer cult, nuked by the Necromunda Defence Forces to rid the planet of the infestation. However, the hive toppled on its side with most of the Cultists surviving resulting in the Defence Forces building a large trench system in the surrounding Ash Wastes to isolate the remains of the Hive from the rest f the planet. It is hinted we will be visiting this intreaging story in the future!

We will be posting updates as we get them!"

Some interesting info a friend told me today, from him chatting to Andy Hoare:

- Boxed game to have board tiles as they're cheaper to produce, and be set in a sewer-type environment. Escher and Goliath gangs plus rulebook too, obvs.
- Gangs are being reimagined a little (a la GeneCult) with differences between Houses and fleshed-out background. Goliaths are industrial and have a 'rivet gun'. Escher are chem-specialists and all mix up their own chem weapons - apparently you can see vials on the models. They have some form of chem-thrower Flamer weapon.
- Intending to promote Sector Mechanicus scenery and Zone Mortalis kits for use with Necromunda. Specialist Games couldn't have done scenery but GW coming out with Shadow War made it a possibility.
- He was told that the rules are a tweak of Necromunda. Subsequently surprised to then read from the WHCommunity post that they're 8th-based, as that wasn't intimated by AH.
- Roll to hit and roll to see if ammo test needed apparently now separate. Your dramatic chance hits will no longer always somehow be with your final bullet!
- Models have interchangeable hair, faces and arms. 5-model kit x2 per side. Allows lots of combinations without duplicating poses.

Stuff from the FB post -

- "The gameplay we got to experience in the demo was a quick and dirty 4 on 4 (four players with two models each). The game is fast, but VERY crunchy! Lots of special weapons that have to be carefully considered when you choose to use them.

The models we used were the gang leader/named character models from the cards included in the game, but you can also create your own, and there are blank cards you can write on in the box, which can wipe off to make changes or add things to.

There’s a few different dice, a regular d6, with a “Skreagle” as Adam called it (a skull/eagle), scatter dice for grenades (and grenades cause knockback, which can throw people off of walkways!), injury dice (used for determining how badly you wounded a model, and also rolled when you’re attempting to stand back up after taking a flesh wound), and the ammo dice.

The ammo dice involved a really cool mechanic. Firstly, assault weapons roll to see how many wounds are caused, and weapons that are rare and run out of ammo due to your roll have a 6+ reload roll in the next turn. So if your bolter runs out of ammo, you may be out of luck. Makes your weapon choices very tactical as well."

Everything seemed geared towards tactics — you trade activations per model, so you can fake out your opponent by moving in a way that causes them to expose themselves to an attack by another model. That mechanic also makes multiplayer games way faster and more fun, since everyone is constantly taking turns.


There are also cards which give you the ability to react to an event. We saw one which allowed the Goliath gang to charge and do more damage, one called Last Gasp that gave you a last retaliatory shot against an enemy who just killed you, and one called Blood Debt that gives your gang +1 on attacks against an enemy model who killed one of your gangers.

Bottling was interesting. There’s the possibility of both teams bottling out. Downed models give bottling a negative modifier, as your gang is more likely to run away as their buddies lie dying on the floor.

Being in base to base contact with a downed model allows you to make a coup de grace and kill them.

There were a large number of modifiers, so you really had to consider exactly what advantages and disadvantages you were giving yourself based on what you did.

Adam talked about how the Studio campaign is mapping the Hive for their game. As the gangs take territory, they keep a record of the way the tiles were laid out, and then reuse those maps to fight over existing turf, which sounds very cool.

I'm personally thrilled about the blank cards you can write your own gangers on.

*EDIT*
Missed some bits in the comments section -

"Tiles that match the Zone Mortalis tiles from Forgeworld come in the box. There’s no grid based movement or shooting, that’s all in inches. The boxed set focuses on tunnel fighting in the Underhive, the first expansion is Gang War, and is releasing at the same time, goes upwards and includes more about fighting and moving through vertical space.

I asked Adam if that meant that if we were seeing an expansion that moved upwards into the higher levels of the Hive, did that mean we might see something that moved outwards, into the Ash Wastes. He gave the typical “anything is possible” kind of answer, but it seems that they’re focused on each expansion also expanding the environments you fight over."

In response to a comment about the tiles:

"Yeah, the tiles are just there to be a quick and easy play surface, with some interesting gameplay possibilities. I saw a tile with a bridge over a pit, one that was swamped with toxic green goo, etc. they were all double sided.

You didn't have read ? The gangs are multiparts kit, composed of 4 different body. And the kits containts heavy.
For the Eschers, the 2nd start on right (with red hairs)

For the Goliaths, the fig in center

I need to see more previews of other gangs !!!

In terms of ongoing support.

Well, I'm going to stick my neck out and say 'it can't just be gangs upon gangs with even more hired guns'. I just don't think you can do that and maintain any kind of uniqueness.

But.....seasons and event books? That seems really quite doable, as can the much mooted, possibly mentioned by GW looking into other Hives (one has a GC infestation, and I think I read somewhere that Nurgle has been up to no good in at least one Hive).

Give us annual setting changes and twists. New ways for us to prove our supremacy.

Just needs the flexibility to be a challenge for older gangs, without being utterly overwhelming for new gangs, so it can be slotted into any campaign, whether new or long running.

Possible Necromunda IG regiment?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Possible Necromunda IG regiment?

The Spiders? The Lucky 7's? The Wrecking Crew?

 BjornRuss wrote:
You didn't have read ? The gangs are multiparts kit, composed of 4 different body. And the kits containts heavy.

Ah, fair enough, still interesting how much variety of heavy weapons they'll manage to get out there.

Vorian wrote:

 BjornRuss wrote:
You didn't have read ? The gangs are multiparts kit, composed of 4 different body. And the kits containts heavy.

Ah, fair enough, still interesting how much variety of heavy weapons they'll manage to get out there.

I would put good money on each gang sprue having the Heavy Stubber as well as what ever else as its pretty much the "got enough credits to get a heavy weapon" weapon.

I could see chaos cultists and genestealer cult gang rules as a White Dwarf article.

It would be any easy way to supplement gang diversity without investing any additional money on GWs part

It's the upgrade kits that interest me most - with the Escher wielding a needle rifle mentioned specifically on the WC article introducing them. Really hope they also include additional heads in them as well.

I'm mostly looking forward to clapping eyes on the sprues.

I mean, GW has done really well of late when it comes to ramming the kits chockfull of bits and pieces. That encourages me that we'll get plenty of options with each Gang - even if they can be easily shared between kits.

It is quite hard to find good looking 3rd party necro gangs. Sure you can have that one delague-inspired gang, maybe scratch-build some muties or other scum. But other than that options are really limited.

I blew away some money trying different alternatives including many tips from a long yaktribe discussion for alternative models. First of all it was very expensive and scale was very hit & miss. But worst was the gang I ended up with was just a rag-tag team of different designs, nothing to unify them.

So really looking forward to GW doing this properly. Probably it will come at a nice price as a bonus.

I am very fond of the Raging Heroes Jailbirds as alternate Escher - my good lady is even working out a backstory. (Basically, an Escher gang that took over a prison facility.)

I am planning on using Victoria Lamb's Victorian Guard as my Van Saar - just because I want steampunk Van Saar....

The Auld Grump

I'm a huge fan of normal humans in the 40k universe. Inquisitorial henchmen, the most human of genestealer cultists, chaos cultists, guardsmen, gangers, arbites, priests, etc.,. So I'm definitely interested in the miniatures (less so the goliaths).

I'm also interested in the rules if they allow a greater range of normal humans to be represented in an interesting way but are easy enough to do fan expansions for. My friends don't all share my love for normal humans in 40k and I'm going to need to come up with stuff for Eldar, Tau and even marines if the rules are going to see regular use. If that can't work, it'll just be a board game that gets pulled out every now and again and a campaign won't happen.

Given that Shadow War already exists, you may wonder why I'm bothering. The truth is that SW:A and original Necromunda don't play well for all people. The pinning mechanic and IGOUGO turns means it's easy to have "do nothing" games. This can be especially annoying for new players.

My hope is that the alternating activation takes the sting out of that and prevents our largest problem with original necromunda and shadow war. Not playing the game while you are playing a game.

Do you think there will be an increase in the market for the old Necromunda models once the new game is released ?

I'd imagine there will be a short lived spike followed by a rapid decline as new models in a larger scale start coming out.

Escher wouldnbe my bet to be the exception to the rule, and be more in demand. But all the dude bro armies from Goliaths to Arbites are gonna be replaced by sweet sweet plastic crack.

I'd suspect an initial crash as a lot of folk with old metal minis who are no longer really in the gaming loop realise they might be able to sell them

then a recovery as people who always thought they'd never afford to get the old stuff they always wanted start grabbing them, but not quite to the old level

although anything that doesn't get a release in Newcromunda may well command a premium if GW do keep supporting the line

There's also made to order to consider, if GW offers anything.

I thought they weren't up-scaling the humans in 40K, or not nearly as much as they are in AoS? Have we seen comparison shots of the new Escher alongside older GW human models?

Fingers crossed they're stopping that damn scale creep!

The new plastocs are so much better than the old metal figs that i cant see why would want to but the old one. Hope the price rise ul though, cause i have a ton to sell

 pancakeonions wrote:
I thought they weren't up-scaling the humans in 40K, or not nearly as much as they are in AoS? Have we seen comparison shots of the new Escher alongside older GW human models?

Fingers crossed they're stopping that damn scale creep!

Nah they're huge. I mean the Goliaths alone are on Marine-sized basis, if that tells you anything.

 streetsamurai wrote:
The new plastocs are so much better than the old metal figs that i cant see why would want to but the old one. Hope the price rise ul though, cause i have a ton to sell

To be honest, the old Escher figures seem nicer then the full preview of the new Escher gang. I am happy I own like 3 full gangs worth.

 streetsamurai wrote:
The new plastocs are so much better than the old metal figs that i cant see why would want to but the old one. Hope the price rise ul though, cause i have a ton to sell

I asked Andy Hoare (product manager at Specialist Games) on FB, and he said the scale is the same as all other recent GW plastics. So no upscaling. Obviously they're bigger than the old metals.

I - for one - am looking to see what they do with the other gangs after the boxed set comes out, particularly the Enforcers/Arbites...

Updated models for them have the potential to be really interesting.

 Mymearan wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
The new plastocs are so much better than the old metal figs that i cant see why would want to but the old one. Hope the price rise ul though, cause i have a ton to sell

I asked Andy Hoare (product manager at Specialist Games) on FB, and he said the scale is the same as all other recent GW plastics. So no upscaling. Obviously they're bigger than the old metals.

Yeah, you're looking at about a head taller than the old metals, give or take. Personally it's not a problem, but I can understand if people don't want that kind of variation in their collection.

Me, I'd be more concerned about just how wide Goliaths are.

 schoon wrote:
I - for one - am looking to see what they do with the other gangs after the boxed set comes out, particularly the Enforcers/Arbites...

Something tells me you'll be waiting a while for those.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 schoon wrote:
I - for one - am looking to see what they do with the other gangs after the boxed set comes out, particularly the Enforcers/Arbites...

Something tells me you'll be waiting a while for those.

I hope you're wrong on that part. Really looking forward to what comes out with this.
Especially with the Imperial Guard conversion potential.

I'd like to see a Necromunda tie-in used as an excuse to finally give us a multi-part Chaos Cultist kit. But then, I'd just like to see a multi-part Chaos Cultist kit, and using it in Necromunda would be gravy.

Failing that, some alt heads for the Cawdor gang box might work. Cawdor were the gang I tried to play back in the day. Alas, their skills were all close combat focused, and the ganger models were all metal and clutching rifle-type weapons into their chest. Hopefully a plastic Cawdor box will finally allow me to have a proper pack of religious berzerker loonies on the side of the Emperor...

 IdentifyZero wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
The new plastocs are so much better than the old metal figs that i cant see why would want to but the old one. Hope the price rise ul though, cause i have a ton to sell

To be honest, the old Escher figures seem nicer then the full preview of the new Escher gang. I am happy I own like 3 full gangs worth.

I agree. The hair doesn't look as nice, and the clean core of the old Escher outfit has become more cluttered.

 adamsouza wrote:
Do you think there will be an increase in the market for the old Necromunda models once the new game is released ?

Yes, I think there will be a bump in interest for the old models. I don't think prices will skyrocket, however.

 Mymearan wrote:
... So no upscaling. Obviously they're bigger...

Er...

 insaniak wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
... So no upscaling. Obviously they're bigger...

Er...

No upscaling from the current scale.

 insaniak wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
... So no upscaling. Obviously they're bigger...

Er...

Maybe actually read the post next time and not just a few words in the middle

 ImAGeek wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
... So no upscaling. Obviously they're bigger...

Er...

No upscaling from the current scale.

Which is not what people are generally talking about.

Whether or not an Escher model for Necromunda is the same size as a GSC model from 40k is far less relevant than whether or not it's the same size as an Escher model from Necromunda.

 insaniak wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
... So no upscaling. Obviously they're bigger...

Er...

No upscaling from the current scale.

Which is not what people are generally talking about.

Whether or not an Escher model for Necromunda is the same size as a GSC model from 40k is far less relevant than whether or not it's the same size as an Escher model from Necromunda.

It answers the question though? They’re bigger than the metals, but in line with modern models. Whether that’s an issue is an individual thing, but it makes sense considering they were made now and not 15 years ago. Makes more sense to make them compatible with today’s kits.

 insaniak wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
... So no upscaling. Obviously they're bigger...

Er...

No upscaling from the current scale.

Which is not what people are generally talking about.

Whether or not an Escher model for Necromunda is the same size as a GSC model from 40k is far less relevant than whether or not it's the same size as an Escher model from Necromunda.

Of course not. People expect a modern GW model to be in the same scale as all other modern GW models. To expect or even want them to be in scale with 25 year old metals is baffling, and I say this as someone with a huge Necromunda metal collection. I refuse to believe anyone thought they would be. People expect to be able to use parts from other plastic models to convert their Necromunda models and vice versa, anything else would be crazy. Old metals are old metals, and you either accept that they will look a bit small and use them anyway (as I will) or use one or the other exclusively.

 insaniak wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
... So no upscaling. Obviously they're bigger...

Er...

No upscaling from the current scale.

Which is not what people are generally talking about.

Whether or not an Escher model for Necromunda is the same size as a GSC model from 40k is far less relevant than whether or not it's the same size as an Escher model from Necromunda.

Actually no, is far more relevant, for far more people, if the Necromunda range is in the same size of the plastic range of today's GW than with 20-old year metal figures.

Must say that I'm impressed with GW's video production.

I have all the old stuff and I agree they're better off making Necromunda in scale with the modern 40k range.

 ImAGeek wrote:

It answers the question though? They’re bigger than the metals, but in line with modern models. Whether that’s an issue is an individual thing, but it makes sense considering they were made now and not 15 years ago. Makes more sense to make them compatible with today’s kits.

You've misunderstood. I wasn't disputing the answer. I was questioning the suggestion that making them bigger isn't upscaling them.



I'm also a little puzzled as to what the age of the models has to do with anything, to be honest. We still have models in use in 40K today that are more than 20 years old, and yes, I expect new releases to be in scale with those models. Which is exactly why the vehicles are the only part of the Primaris range that I'm ever likely to buy.

There's no actual requirement that new models be bigger than the models that they replace. It's just something that GW have been doing for reasons known only to themselves. I would much rather they reverse that decision and produce ranges in a consistent scale than to continue making everything bigger. YMMV, obviously.

Anyone think juves are going the way of the Squat ?

I'll be happy to use mine as gangers, if I need to. With gangers all going multipart plastic, I can't see juves being on those sprues.

 insaniak wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

It answers the question though? They’re bigger than the metals, but in line with modern models. Whether that’s an issue is an individual thing, but it makes sense considering they were made now and not 15 years ago. Makes more sense to make them compatible with today’s kits.

You've misunderstood. I wasn't disputing the answer. I was questioning the suggestion that making them bigger isn't upscaling them.



I'm also a little puzzled as to what the age of the models has to do with anything, to be honest. We still have models in use in 40K today that are more than 20 years old, and yes, I expect new releases to be in scale with those models. Which is exactly why the vehicles are the only part of the Primaris range that I'm ever likely to buy.

There's no actual requirement that new models be bigger than the models that they replace. It's just something that GW have been doing for reasons known only to themselves. I would much rather they reverse that decision and produce ranges in a consistent scale than to continue making everything bigger. YMMV, obviously.

If I have to choose between having the plastic parts of the new multipart gangs compatible with metal figures of 20 years ago of a , in the time, different system than 40k, or being them compatible with all the human ranges that GW produces now, in the new era of cross-compatibility, personally, my pick is easy to choose.

 adamsouza wrote:
Anyone think juves are going the way of the Squat ?

I'll be happy to use mine as gangers, if I need to. With gangers all going multipart plastic, I can't see juves being on those sprues.

I think you underestimate just how sneaky GW can be.

Release Necromunda with no elevations.
Sell a supplement that increases the in game experience by adding more elevations to the game besides the basics in the core rules.
Sell a supplement that gives rules for a couple more gangs every few months.
Once their is a lul then release rules for Juves and sprues to match.

Repeat milking process.

 Mymearan wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
... So no upscaling. Obviously they're bigger...

Er...

No upscaling from the current scale.

Which is not what people are generally talking about.

Whether or not an Escher model for Necromunda is the same size as a GSC model from 40k is far less relevant than whether or not it's the same size as an Escher model from Necromunda.

Of course not. People expect a modern GW model to be in the same scale as all other modern GW models. To expect or even want them to be in scale with 25 year old metals is baffling, and I say this as someone with a huge Necromunda metal collection. I refuse to believe anyone thought they would be. People expect to be able to use parts from other plastic models to convert their Necromunda models and vice versa, anything else would be crazy. Old metals are old metals, and you either accept that they will look a bit small and use them anyway (as I will) or use one or the other exclusively.

Exactly. As said before, I have a ton of the old models, but I would be mad if they were in scale with them and not the current plastic range


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Theophony wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Anyone think juves are going the way of the Squat ?

I'll be happy to use mine as gangers, if I need to. With gangers all going multipart plastic, I can't see juves being on those sprues.

I think you underestimate just how sneaky GW can be.

Release Necromunda with no elevations.
Sell a supplement that increases the in game experience by adding more elevations to the game besides the basics in the core rules.
Sell a supplement that gives rules for a couple more gangs every few months.
Once their is a lul then release rules for Juves and sprues to match.

Repeat milking process.

Yeah, I expect GW to nickel&dime us to death with Necro. But to be honest, I don't really mind. Been waiting for so long for this game to come back that I won't let a few dubious business pratices spoil my enthusiasm

 Theophony wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Anyone think juves are going the way of the Squat ?

I'll be happy to use mine as gangers, if I need to. With gangers all going multipart plastic, I can't see juves being on those sprues.

I think you underestimate just how sneaky GW can be.

Release Necromunda with no elevations.
Sell a supplement that increases the in game experience by adding more elevations to the game besides the basics in the core rules.
Sell a supplement that gives rules for a couple more gangs every few months.
Once their is a lul then release rules for Juves and sprues to match.

Repeat milking process.

You mean GW is going to exploit my love of Necromunda for profit?

Bill Withers actually wrote a song that encapsulates how I feel about this!

 Theophony wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Anyone think juves are going the way of the Squat ?

I'll be happy to use mine as gangers, if I need to. With gangers all going multipart plastic, I can't see juves being on those sprues.

I think you underestimate just how sneaky GW can be.

Release Necromunda with no elevations.
Sell a supplement that increases the in game experience by adding more elevations to the game besides the basics in the core rules.
Sell a supplement that gives rules for a couple more gangs every few months.
Once their is a lul then release rules for Juves and sprues to match.

Repeat milking process.

Isn't that how nostalgia works? You pick somethingt that people loved in the past, you broke it into pieces, you put them in shiny boxes, and you leench those suckers until they are dry!

 Galas wrote:

Isn't that how nostalgia works? You pick somethingt that people loved in the past, you broke it into pieces, you put them in shiny boxes, and you leench those suckers until they are dry!

But does it work?

I have been playing Blood Bowl since 1990 and bought the most recent 2016 box set and then came season book 1, season book 2, special card pack 1, special card pack 2.....

I didnt buy any of that extra rubbish, how many card packs will there be? how many more extra rules books? how often are they going to spit them out? how much do I actually need to spend before I can actually play the game in a manner I did 2 years ago when ALL the rules were in 1 book, when ALL the cards were listed?

If they try and do this with necro they wont get my money.

They are getting all of mine

This is seriously the new golden age of GW

 insaniak wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

It answers the question though? They’re bigger than the metals, but in line with modern models. Whether that’s an issue is an individual thing, but it makes sense considering they were made now and not 15 years ago. Makes more sense to make them compatible with today’s kits.

You've misunderstood. I wasn't disputing the answer. I was questioning the suggestion that making them bigger isn't upscaling them.



I'm also a little puzzled as to what the age of the models has to do with anything, to be honest. We still have models in use in 40K today that are more than 20 years old, and yes, I expect new releases to be in scale with those models. Which is exactly why the vehicles are the only part of the Primaris range that I'm ever likely to buy.

There's no actual requirement that new models be bigger than the models that they replace. It's just something that GW have been doing for reasons known only to themselves. I would much rather they reverse that decision and produce ranges in a consistent scale than to continue making everything bigger. YMMV, obviously.

No, you just misunderstood what was said. They aren’t upscaled from the current size of plastic miniatures, as some seemed to think or worry that they were. And sure there’s no requirement for models to be bigger and the ideal situation would be for models to be at the same scale forever, but today’s models are bigger than they were when Necromunda was first released and it makes more sense for the new ones to match today’s scale than the old metals.

Is there a sisters of battle convent on necromunda? Maybe we finally see plastic sob squad.....muwahaha! Just kidding! :p

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Is there a sisters of battle convent on necromunda? Maybe we finally see plastic sob squad.....muwahaha! Just kidding! :p

Necromunda Wave 1:

Goliaths (confirmed)
Escher (confirmed)
Sisters of Battle missionary band
Squat Miners
Rainbow Warriors Kill Team
Zoat Raiders

Zoat Raiders! Finally!

 MangoMadness wrote:

But does it work?

I have been playing Blood Bowl since 1990 and bought the most recent 2016 box set and then came season book 1, season book 2, special card pack 1, special card pack 2.....

I didnt buy any of that extra rubbish, how many card packs will there be? how many more extra rules books? how often are they going to spit them out? how much do I actually need to spend before I can actually play the game in a manner I did 2 years ago when ALL the rules were in 1 book, when ALL the cards were listed?

If they try and do this with necro they wont get my money.

Me too played since end of 90s. I bought the 2016 box. Season 1, Season 2, deck 1, deck 2, all the star players, all the teams, all the big guys, the referees, the booster pack, all the dice, all the pitches, forge world pitches... even bought over-priced event-only star players from ebay. Bought all the rubbish

I would say that the rule book in the starter set was bad (incomplete and with errors). They should have included much of Death Zone Season 1 in the rule book instead. Death Zone Season 2 on the other hand gives tons of new content to the game, stuff you never had in LRB6/CRP/Icepelt version. The biggest problem (as you point out) is that they divided all the rules into so many sources: rulebook, season books, decks, pdfs (erratas & faqs), white dwarf, app and more.

What I did with Blood Bowl was to combine everything into a single document just like previous edition, you can have it from me if you want. This way it is very similar to previous edition which had all the rules, star players, cards and additional contents. If GW does the same with Necromunda, I'll do it for this game too.

Baxx wrote:

What I did with Blood Bowl was to combine everything into a single document just like previous edition, you can have it from me if you want.

I'd be interested in that document

I'm really enjoying BB 2016, but my one slight gripe is how backwardly muddled the rules are laid out in the book(s).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 schoon wrote:
I - for one - am looking to see what they do with the other gangs after the boxed set comes out, particularly the Enforcers/Arbites...

Something tells me you'll be waiting a while for those.

Thankfully I'm a patient man.

The fact that they've announced that all the old gangs will be getting some love is pretty inspiring.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Is there a sisters of battle convent on necromunda? Maybe we finally see plastic sob squad.....muwahaha! Just kidding! :p

Necromunda Wave 1:

Sisters of Battle missionary band

Exploding tambourines for everyone?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But on a serious note.

I've got a Fimbling Feeling some Necromunda stuff will be pre-released at the 40k Open Day at the end of November.

I'm going, and will of course procure samples for full dissemination across dakka in the form of (crap) photos and (by no means unbiased) opinion.

 alanmckenzie wrote:

Baxx wrote:

What I did with Blood Bowl was to combine everything into a single document just like previous edition, you can have it from me if you want.

I'd be interested in that document

I'm really enjoying BB 2016, but my one slight gripe is how backwardly muddled the rules are laid out in the book(s).

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1e2D1Q517AtwSwPQnKXwOKZBVoebW9-e0W54yUZ1hQkE

I used the previous rule pdf as base and added new stuff on top of that. I'm not quite finished cleaning up the cards cause there was a new special play card released for a GW tournament/event a few weeks ago.

Problem is if (actually when) GW will do the same for Necromunda, there may not be a good foundation to start on. The new rules may have little or nothing in common with the old.

Baxx wrote:
The biggest problem (as you point out) is that they divided all the rules into so many sources: rulebook, season books, decks, pdfs (erratas & faqs), white dwarf, app and more.

That's actually my issue with what we seem to be getting. I don't have a problem with my old models looking small next to the new ones or with handing over obscene amounts of money for GW, orwith the starter set containing floor plans and docusing on tunnel fights. But having two, three or four books just to have the full rules is not enticing.

 Geifer wrote:

Baxx wrote:
The biggest problem (as you point out) is that they divided all the rules into so many sources: rulebook, season books, decks, pdfs (erratas & faqs), white dwarf, app and more.

That's actually my issue with what we seem to be getting. I don't have a problem with my old models looking small next to the new ones or with handing over obscene amounts of money for GW, orwith the starter set containing floor plans and docusing on tunnel fights. But having two, three or four books just to have the full rules is not enticing.

If there only was 3-4 books I wouldn't have a problem...

Baxx wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

Baxx wrote:
The biggest problem (as you point out) is that they divided all the rules into so many sources: rulebook, season books, decks, pdfs (erratas & faqs), white dwarf, app and more.

That's actually my issue with what we seem to be getting. I don't have a problem with my old models looking small next to the new ones or with handing over obscene amounts of money for GW, orwith the starter set containing floor plans and docusing on tunnel fights. But having two, three or four books just to have the full rules is not enticing.

If there only was 3-4 books I wouldn't have a problem...

Considering the disastrous spelling in my last post, I doubt I could handle a single book...

But yeah, I think scattered rules are the only actual deal breaker for me when it comes to Necromunda.

From the new White Dwarf, Temporal Distort article (pg 132) featuring the Jan '94 WD issue

Elsewhere, the Adeptus Arbites [...] appeared as a new range of miniatures, with full rules and (a very short) army list in the issue. Not really a presence on the Battlefield as such, the Adeptus Arbites haven't been seen around much lately, but with the likes of the Genestealer Cults on the rise again, who knows when they might be back?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Zoat Raiders! Finally!

I actually have several Zoats. And the shiny new Zoat Raiders are probably upscaled so they won't look good next to each other. Thanks GW!

When is this due to be released?

Next month, but not 100% on the exact release date.

Not sure if it's just not be announced, or if I've managed to completely miss it.

Warhams-77 wrote:
From the new White Dwarf, Temporal Distort article (pg 132) featuring the Jan '94 WD issue

Elsewhere, the Adeptus Arbites [...] appeared as a new range of miniatures, with full rules and (a very short) army list in the issue. Not really a presence on the Battlefield as such, the Adeptus Arbites haven't been seen around much lately, but with the likes of the Genestealer Cults on the rise again, who knows when they might be back?

Soon please!

I'm from New York and Space Cops mean a lot more to me than Space Vikings or Space Romans.

SPACE COPS!

I'm excited and sad simultaneously. Loved Necromunda, loved Escher (had the full original gang), and was really looking forward to the release, but to me without a boxed terrain set it's a disappointment.

It would be fine if SWA hadn't been limited edition, and the individual industrial terrain pieces were not now so unaffordably expensive.

If you like the old stuff there's still stuff out there.

 Million wrote:
I'm excited and sad simultaneously. Loved Necromunda, loved Escher (had the full original gang), and was really looking forward to the release, but to me without a boxed terrain set it's a disappointment.

It would be fine if SWA hadn't been limited edition, and the individual industrial terrain pieces were not now so unaffordably expensive.

There's some meaty terrain boxed sets due out for Christmas?

At the moment I'm assuming there's a discount involved, but how much who knows.

Was SWA even that great a discount? Maybe if you ebayed the scouts and orks, but if SWA was unlimited the price of those would be tiny!

The SWA box sold for £90, I think.
Just the terrain came to £75, when released separately a couple of weeks later.
It also had 2x Scouts, 1x Boyz, templates (handy at the time) and the rulebook.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There's some meaty terrain boxed sets due out for Christmas?

Unless there are more we haven't seen, nothing quite like the SWA box. There's a 2xVoid Shield/1xReactor/1xPipes box and one with a Bastion and some Cargo Containers.

True. Did a google, and I swear that's not what I remember seeing!

Ah well, off to Warhammer World for the 40k Open Day in November. Completed with annual bonus and a month of overtime. Reckon I'll get me terrain there!

Unfortunately with what we seem to know about Necromunda, and then Blood Bowl, 40k of 7th edition onwards, and what AoS has become, Games Workshop has this crazy fetish with drip-feeding rules material to us so we keep buying, and we end up with way too much material spread all over to keep track of.

I was lucky enough to trade my way into a whack-ton of unassembled Mantic sci-fi terrain.. some ruins, some industrial, and the generic stuff.. Setting it aside until this releases SOUNDS like a good idea, but.. I also think that assembling it NOW, getting it painted and USED at the time of release sounds smarter..

So I went to https://spacemarineheroes.com/ today and when I go there it asks for authentication for necromunda.com
You can just press cancel and you get to the SM heroes site but the interesting part was the necromunda.com website, no idea if it has been mentioned in this thread already but regardless it seems we will get a website for that game as well.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There's some meaty terrain boxed sets due out for Christmas?

Unless there are more we haven't seen, nothing quite like the SWA box. There's a 2xVoid Shield/1xReactor/1xPipes box and one with a Bastion and some Cargo Containers.

Had SWA been announced yet when those images leaked? It's been a while, so I don't remember. If not, I would bet GW would be keeping the SWA terrain under lock and key before that game was announced. I guess my point is that we could be getting some of the Mechanicus terrain in bundles next month, too. I hope so, anyway.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
So I went to https://spacemarineheroes.com/ today and when I go there it asks for authentication for necromunda.com
You can just press cancel and you get to the SM heroes site but the interesting part was the necromunda.com website, no idea if it has been mentioned in this thread already but regardless it seems we will get a website for that game as well.

Just noticed that as well, but when I was following a link to the Shadespire site. Wonder what it means... (not really, it just means there'll be a Necromunda website)

 insaniak wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

It answers the question though? They’re bigger than the metals, but in line with modern models. Whether that’s an issue is an individual thing, but it makes sense considering they were made now and not 15 years ago. Makes more sense to make them compatible with today’s kits.

You've misunderstood. I wasn't disputing the answer. I was questioning the suggestion that making them bigger isn't upscaling them.



I'm also a little puzzled as to what the age of the models has to do with anything, to be honest. We still have models in use in 40K today that are more than 20 years old, and yes, I expect new releases to be in scale with those models. Which is exactly why the vehicles are the only part of the Primaris range that I'm ever likely to buy.

There's no actual requirement that new models be bigger than the models that they replace. It's just something that GW have been doing for reasons known only to themselves. I would much rather they reverse that decision and produce ranges in a consistent scale than to continue making everything bigger. YMMV, obviously.

The age has everything to do with it as Games Workshop have moved on so completely from the way miniatures were designed, sculpted and scaled when the original Escher miniatures were produced.

Over time, GW began designing figures to be a little larger than the 28mm that was king back in the 1990s. They are now around 32mm.

The old models currently used in 40k that are now pushing 20+ years DO look very small in comparison to the current lines of miniatures. Were you to see a new sculpt of, for instance, Mephiston, I guarantee he would be sculpted to be significantly larger than the current metal model.

Sculpting the new Necromunda miniatures to be roughly in-scale with the current miniature ranges IS keeping to a consistent scale.

YES. They will look taller/larger than the old Necromunda models (of which I have a considerable number).

I really don't understand why this is an issue. Why on earth would they make the NEW Necromunda figures SMALLER than the current range of figures they currently produce?

Indeed- particularly since they are being made plastic, and setting them at the same scale as modern minis is gonna make a ton of money for conversion sales.

Those figures didn't just look a little bigger than the old ones, the way Cadians are scaled slightly larger than Catachans (if thinner)., they looked HUGE. Like, Primaris Gangers. Obviously goliaths are big, but the Eschers looked almost as big as they did.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm estimating that off the bases of course, could just be my eyeball is off.

 ekwatts wrote:

I really don't understand why this is an issue. Why on earth would they make the NEW Necromunda figures SMALLER than the current range of figures they currently produce?

So that they would be in scale with people's existing collections?

You know, the very thing that has been discussed from the start...

 insaniak wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

I really don't understand why this is an issue. Why on earth would they make the NEW Necromunda figures SMALLER than the current range of figures they currently produce?

So that they would be in scale with people's existing collections?

You know, the very thing that has been discussed from the start...

The game`s been in a coma or dead for many years (10-15?), many new gamers and hobbiests appeared, now it`s remade, with new rules, new models... Did they need to do all the goofy monkey hands as well on the new minis? Miniatures are a bit bigger now, so they don`t require the old school hero scale with heads being the size of the bodies, so we can seе wtf they are from standing up POV. New miniatures have more details, are often multi-part and more dynamic. While some old sculpts are definatly works of art, I wouldn`t say so about most classic GW stuff. I`m sorry, throw all the tomatoes you can. I personaly don`t care for other`s people 20 year old collections, I don`t want the hobby to stagnate.

People`s existing collections would look crap with new era miniatures used in the same gang, as the old ones. Like playing cs 1.6 and CS:GO on the same map.
Minis improve, and getting somewhat larger, thus more relevant to current ranges and with bigger possibilities of customization (in a game about progress) is more important.
Infinity, Warmahordes, Warhammers, Malifaux - ranges of these games get improved, and more often than not, miniatures getting larger is a part of it.

 insaniak wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

I really don't understand why this is an issue. Why on earth would they make the NEW Necromunda figures SMALLER than the current range of figures they currently produce?

So that they would be in scale with people's existing collections?

You know, the very thing that has been discussed from the start...

Making them the same scale as the current 40k stuff means that people might buy them even if they don’t play Necromunda, for 40k conversions. It makes a lot more sense for them to make them fit with today’s models. If people already have a Necromunda collection, they’ll most likely either just use their existing models, or buy the new ones anyway.

I imagine the market of people they’re trying to buy into the game is far larger than the market of people who used to play and have collections of the old models. And the amount of people who won’t buy anything or won’t touch the game because the new models are bigger than their models from 15 years ago is probably pretty small. This definitely seems like the right decision.

Disclaimer, guys: I'm just annoyed that the original Necromunda metal figures were a slightly larger scale than the 25-28mm Confrontation miniatures. Here I was, a huge collection of metal brat miniatures and BAM. GW hits us with a new range that stand a full 1-3mm taller! No attempt to appease the neglected Confrontation fan base at all.... Dreadful behaviour. SURE, that increase in scale led to more detailed and nicer looking miniatures, but who cares about that when your old, dated models look like they're from an entirely different era of miniatures?!

I think whether they're in scale with the old models is a bit of a non-issue. There's no need for them to be, in the same way that new 40k models aren't in scale with old 2nd edition metal miniatures or first edition beakies. The old sculpts have a lot of character but are, by modern standards, pretty rough.

I'm more interested in which of the recent plastics they're going to be in scale with. Tempestus Scions and DV Chaos Cultists are both much bigger than Cadians, Genestealer Cultists and Skitarii for instance. Which humanoids the new Necromunda plastics are scaled to will really effect what conversions are going to be viable.

I concur. Which of the new range of miniatures the scale is most similar to is interesting. What ever the scale difference is from 20 years ago is garbage. We've had it with Blood Bowl (that discussion has eventually died off). By the looks of Necromunda, this topic can resurface again and again if we see more specialist games like Mordheim, Battlefleet Gothic and Gorkamorka.

So heads up to the moaners: also your mordheim warbands, your star fleets and other models will be outdated and wrong scale for any and all new releases GW will ever make.

"Moaners".

Classy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Moaners".

Classy.

Also almost accurate.

"Insufferable Moaners" should do the job.

Oh... my... god.

We had the scale discussion since page 2. Is there really anything left to say?

Repeating this after over 40 pages is really only moaning.

SKR.HH wrote:
Oh... my... god.

We had the scale discussion since page 2. Is there really anything left to say?
.

Given that people are still claiming to not understand why some of us think it's a problem, yes, apparently.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:
If people already have a Necromunda collection, they’ll most likely either just use their existing models, or buy the new ones anyway.

You may well be right. Time will tell. For me, I was quite excited about having new models to add to the collection... But that enthusiasm took a big hit because of the scale issue.

I totally get that it's not an issue for some... But that's kind of the thing... Making the new models in scale with the old would have kept those of who like things in scale happy, and wouldn't have bothered everyone else. Increasing the size to be more in line with the rather variable scale in play with more recent lines, by contrast, only satisfies the latter group.

Dismissing it as 'moaning' doesn't make it any less irritating. And, really, the topic would have died out on its own if people didn't keep dredging it up again to act all incredulous that modellers might want new models in scale with their existing collections.

 insaniak wrote:

SKR.HH wrote:
Oh... my... god.

We had the scale discussion since page 2. Is there really anything left to say?
.

Given that people are still claiming to not understand why some of us think it's a problem, yes, apparently.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:
If people already have a Necromunda collection, they’ll most likely either just use their existing models, or buy the new ones anyway.

You may well be right. Time will tell. For me, I was quite excited about having new models to add to the collection... But that enthusiasm took a big hit because of the scale issue.

I totally get that it's not an issue for some ... But that's kind of the thing... Making the new models in scale with the old would have kept those of who like things in scale happy, and wouldn't have bothered everyone else. Increasing the size to be more in line with the rather variable scale in play with more recent lines, by contrast, only satisfies the latter group.

Dismissing it as 'moaning' doesn't make it any less irritating. And, really, the topic would have died out on its own if people didn't keep dredging it up again to act all incredulous that modellers might want new models in scale with their existing collections.

Obviously it's not some but the majority. Those who have no Necromunda miniatures anymore or at all and even quite a few people who do have figures doesn't seem to have porblems with this.

Even when the new minis are taller than the old ones, they can still be used together.

I use lots of 2nd ed metal Space Wolves Grey Hunters, Blood Claws and Longfangs together with new plastic kits (full units as well as incorporated into mainly metal squads) and it does not look like garbage.

Only thing that I feel missing from this scale creep discussion, or at least not streessed enough, is that "moaners" neglect one HUGE reason for scale creep: plastic process has lower possible definition than pewter or resin. It is closer to what you could get in lead than in pewter (just with thinner rod-like features due to stiffness of plastic).

You can clearly see this when you compare 4th ed pewter Shadowseer to it's modern counterpart side by side - it is basically the same model (up to baton head detail and costume elements), just in more dynamic pose. And even though modern model is 2-3mm taller (from toe to the tip of the hood), details are bit more rounded and look a bit "melted" and/or shallow when compared to razor sharp pewter model (which still has some additional tiny details here and there).

The point is - modern plastic miniatures in scale with pewter era Necromunda range would have to be closer to Confrontation era level of detail (just not as fugly desing-wise due to CAD process) and that just wouldn't fly at all...

 insaniak wrote:
Making the new models in scale with the old would have kept those of who like things in scale happy, and wouldn't have bothered everyone else.

It would most certainly bother me, as I plan to use those plastics for a variety of projects, from AoS to Blood Bowl. So yeah.

Meanwhile, how about we all try to show enough Taoist to people with opinions that differ from our own to not refer to them as 'moaners', hmm?

Rule 1, folks.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
It would most certainly bother me, as I plan to use those plastics for a variety of projects, from AoS to Blood Bowl. So yeah.

Not to sound callous, but that doesn't matter. If the miniatures are unsuited to something outside of their intended purpose, then that's more on you than on the miniatures. To put it simply, you cannot criticise an orange for not being an apple.

So if the Newcromunda miniatures were scaled to Oldcromunda miniatures then the fact that they don't/won't work with a completely unrelated game isn't really an issue.

What I'm most excited to see in the coming weeks and months...

1. The other gangs. Love the look of the Escher and Goliath, and I'm chuffed to bits their aesthetic hasn't been overhauled.

2. The expansion stuff. Hired Guns? Imagine Scum models that aren't a bit pants! Imagine weapon upgrade kits which don't involve me having to hack the original gun out the model's chest area first!

3. All of it, basically.

So hyped for this, and already got three or four peeps interested in a campaign at my flat. November I buy the terrain and the game, and from there on in we have at it!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
1. The other gangs. Love the look of the Escher and Goliath, and I'm chuffed to bits their aesthetic hasn't been overhauled.

I expect your first mission will be to lie/cheat/steal your way into a position that allows you to see upcoming Delaque models. This is a priority, over and above even your anti-scalper Facebook group.

The fact that Delaques are my fav gang is completely unrelated.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
2. The expansion stuff. Hired Guns? Imagine Scum models that aren't a bit pants! Imagine weapon upgrade kits which don't involve me having to hack the original gun out the model's chest area first!

I'm hopding for Hired Guns that mature as a campaign does. Hired guns weren't worth it most of the time because you had no money in the early game when their skills'd be useful, and in the later stages of a campaign they're outclassed by your own gangers. If Hired Guns scaled and/or got experience, then maybe that'd be worth it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So hyped for this, and already got three or four peeps interested in a campaign at my flat. November I buy the terrain and the game, and from there on in we have at it!

How many people live in your flat?

And yeah, I've started making terrain in preparation.

It'll be interesting to see what they do with Orlock. The biker gang look strikes me as too generic for IP-obsessed GW of today.

Just me in Grotsnik Towers :p

Spare room though, which will become a gaming dungeon in time.

Will definitely keep my peepers out for the new gangs on the 25th. Naturally I can only report on what's actually there.

And if there's exclusives, I'll have the readies to grab a few for Christmas distribution through the group.

Given GW's design work of late, the idea of new Bounty Hunters and Pit Slaves is certainly exciting.

And I'd really like to see the Spyrers reworked with more variation and some less ridiculous rules

Yeah but the ridiculous rules were tempered by the fact that there were, at most, 5 of them, and they couldn't get replacements.

If you reduce their individual power and allow for some way of replacing losses, then that'd be fine.

On reflection, it's Houses Delaque and Van Saar I'm most interested to see done anew.

To me, they were the least developed of the original Houses, particularly Van Saar - that was a House I just couldn't picture in the Underhive. Too far removed aesthetically from the cyberpunk nonsense on display everywhere else.

Delaque? I liked the aesthetic, I just feel it turned out a wee bit bland. Granted, that's quite possibly a very deliberate design choice rather than a casting limitation, but I'd like to see some more interesting, suitably sneaky poses.

 insaniak wrote:

SKR.HH wrote:
Oh... my... god.

We had the scale discussion since page 2. Is there really anything left to say?
.

Given that people are still claiming to not understand why some of us think it's a problem, yes, apparently.

Oh everyone understands perfectly well, we just think you're being totally unreasonable and your arguments are completely unconvincing.

The scale is the scale is the scale.

Both sides of the fence on that one?



Now, let's talk froth!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not to sound callous, but that doesn't matter.

If the miniatures are unsuited to something outside of their intended purpose, then that's more on you than on the miniatures. To put it simply, you cannot criticise an orange for not being an apple.

Insaniak said the different scale wouldn't bother anyone. It would bother me, so his assumptions are most likely incorrect. That's about it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


So if the Newcromunda miniatures were scaled to Oldcromunda miniatures then the fact that they don't/won't work with a completely unrelated game isn't really an issue.

So it wouldn't be an issue if the Betrayal at Calth Marines were scaled down to match the venerable Beakies rather than modern Marine kits? Or Shadespire Stormcasts randomly being 45mm?

Do you genuinely believe the current GW customer base would be better off with Necromunda keeping the old scale over updating it to match the rest of the range?

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Insaniak said the different scale wouldn't bother anyone. It would bother me, so his assumptions are most likely incorrect. That's about it.

Sure, my statement failed to take into account people wanting the miniatures for something other than Necromunda. Because, frankly, I doubt that use outside the intended game system is a particularly big factor in their design.

 Psychopomp wrote:

I'd like to see a Necromunda tie-in used as an excuse to finally give us a multi-part Chaos Cultist kit. But then, I'd just like to see a multi-part Chaos Cultist kit, and using it in Necromunda would be gravy.

Failing that, some alt heads for the Cawdor gang box might work. Cawdor were the gang I tried to play back in the day. Alas, their skills were all close combat focused, and the ganger models were all metal and clutching rifle-type weapons into their chest. Hopefully a plastic Cawdor box will finally allow me to have a proper pack of religious berzerker loonies on the side of the Emperor...

I don't think there is much appetite for a multi-part chaos cultist kit to make it to the top of the list of things 40k and it's associated games (in which I include Necromunda) really needs right now. There are loads of good quality plastic cultists available now from not too distant past releases. Plenty of plastics further up the need list I think! Ork buggies, nice SM scouts, even plastic sisters?? (Somewhere in GW a big countdown clock just noisily reset it's countdown to the plastic sisters release)

I'd really like to see a multi part plastic kit that could cover Enforcers, Arbites, Planetary Defence Force, Inquisitorial squad members etc... Heavy webbers and police dogs/cyber hounds that are significantly smaller than SW great wolves please.

I agree in principle with the comments that a lack of interchangeability between systems shouldn't be an issue, but I think GW is well aware that sales of models for any of these spin off games are hugely increased if there is conversion/crossover potential, whether they publicly acknowledge this or not. I think we can all be grateful that they see the advantages in this. If for example Newcromunda was to be released in a similar scale to the middle earth miniatures, I think the hype around it's release would be in the range of disappointment through to rage!

I don't think it should come as a surprise (unpleasant or otherwise) that GW doesn't really give a toss about backwards compatibility with model ranges beyond the last 5 years or so. As someone with a model collection that dates back to 2nd ed, I am pleased about this, as generally speaking* the model ranges are on an upward curve of quality and attractiveness to my tastes (if not wallet!). *Yes SM centurions, I'm looking at you!

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Do you genuinely believe the current GW customer base would be better off with Necromunda keeping the old scale over updating it to match the rest of the range?

I think the customer base would be better off if they had stuck to a consistent scale in the first place, but I can certainly see the appeal of bigger models that cam have more detail crammed onto them, even if I don't think it's entirely necessary.

 Nuclear Mekanik wrote:


I'd really like to see a multi part plastic kit that could cover Enforcers, Arbites, Planetary Defence Force, Inquisitorial squad members etc... Heavy webbers and police dogs/cyber hounds that are significantly smaller than SW great wolves please.

Snip....

That....is a cracking idea. If we look to the Stormtroopers kit, we can get an idea of how that might be achieved. Two or three weapons options, layered armour, good selection of heads. Call it a vanilla 'Imperial Enforcers' type name. SUCCESS!

 insaniak wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Insaniak said the different scale wouldn't bother anyone. It would bother me, so his assumptions are most likely incorrect. That's about it.

Sure, my statement failed to take into account people wanting the miniatures for something other than Necromunda. Because, frankly, I doubt that use outside the intended game system is a particularly big factor in their design.

For me at least, I want Necromunda models to be in the same scale as other ranges so that I can use those other ranges to convert and customise my gang. That's a massive part of what Necromunda should be, in my opinion.

That said, it's a rather pointless argument, there are valid reasons for wanting the scale to be consistent with old ranges and new ranges. Can't please everyone!

 mould2k wrote:


That said, it's a rather pointless argument, there are valid reasons for wanting the scale to be consistent with old ranges and new ranges. Can't please everyone!

Indeed.
So... Shiny new Necromunda, eh?

I did not realize the sector mechanicus bases were actually pretty reasonably priced, obviously a good fit for necroumunda, anyone have experience with them? Thinking of tossing a box on with my necromunda box.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
It would most certainly bother me, as I plan to use those plastics for a variety of projects, from AoS to Blood Bowl. So yeah.

Not to sound callous, but that doesn't matter. If the miniatures are unsuited to something outside of their intended purpose, then that's more on you than on the miniatures. To put it simply, you cannot criticise an orange for not being an apple.

So if the Newcromunda miniatures were scaled to Oldcromunda miniatures then the fact that they don't/won't work with a completely unrelated game isn't really an issue.

You may be technically correct, but you know that is not the reality of GW policy about cross-compatibility between their games and model ranges. When they announce conversions mixing warhammer fantasy and warhammer 40k models is for a reason. Yeah, Age of Sigmar could be in 45mm and 40k in 32mm, but they aren't for a reason.

I am using Sector Mechanicus bases on my er Mechanicus army. They are great, I am not a bad painter but I always struggle with bases, these just need a quick metalic dry brush and look awesome. Pretty decent price for the amount of bases you get. I was looking at the new necro minis and it looks like they have sculpted bases too, at first I thought they were Sector Mechanicus bases but now I am not so sure.

As for scale I am more than happy with the large scale. It means I will have a much easier time finding relevant bits for conversions. Plus my painting skills have improved a lot since the 90s so my existing Necro models look a bit rubbish these days.

Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote:
these just need a quick metalic dry brush and look awesome

Also true of Sector Imperialis, although I do them with a drab concrete look rather than metal decking.

Question: Is it actually likely for arbiters/enforcers to get an official release, even if we assume that GW will expand beyond the original 6 gangs?

From what I understood they were a home brew thing, no models or rules at all. But people keep mentioning them in the thread so I thought I'd ask.

Enforcers had models at one point, very nice ones too. What with GW's new trend of reviving old fan favourites I would be highly surprised if Arbites/Enforcers aren't bundled up in the new necro release at some point. Plus the kits would fly off the shelves for conversion purposes alone.

SilverAlien wrote:
Question: Is it actually likely for arbiters/enforcers to get an official release, even if we assume that GW will expand beyond the original 6 gangs?

From what I understood they were a home brew thing, no models or rules at all. But people keep mentioning them in the thread so I thought I'd ask.

Official models complete with fully official rules as well

 insaniak wrote:

SKR.HH wrote:
Oh... my... god.

We had the scale discussion since page 2. Is there really anything left to say?
.

Given that people are still claiming to not understand why some of us think it's a problem, yes, apparently.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:
If people already have a Necromunda collection, they’ll most likely either just use their existing models, or buy the new ones anyway.

You may well be right. Time will tell. For me, I was quite excited about having new models to add to the collection... But that enthusiasm took a big hit because of the scale issue.

I totally get that it's not an issue for some... But that's kind of the thing... Making the new models in scale with the old would have kept those of who like things in scale happy, and wouldn't have bothered everyone else. Increasing the size to be more in line with the rather variable scale in play with more recent lines, by contrast, only satisfies the latter group.

Dismissing it as 'moaning' doesn't make it any less irritating. And, really, the topic would have died out on its own if people didn't keep dredging it up again to act all incredulous that modellers might want new models in scale with their existing collections.

Except then they wouldn’t be in scale with 40k and they’d lose the market for conversions and bits.
Edit: missed a page

 MrFlutterPie wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Question: Is it actually likely for arbiters/enforcers to get an official release, even if we assume that GW will expand beyond the original 6 gangs?

From what I understood they were a home brew thing, no models or rules at all. But people keep mentioning them in the thread so I thought I'd ask.

Official models complete with fully official rules as well

Also in 1st Edition

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991a/cat1991ap035impforces-00.htm

and 2nd Edition of 40k

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1993/cat1993p478-00.htm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GW stopped selling the last Arbites model range about 4 or 5 years ago.

SilverAlien wrote:
Question: Is it actually likely for arbiters/enforcers to get an official release, even if we assume that GW will expand beyond the original 6 gangs?

From what I understood they were a home brew thing, no models or rules at all. But people keep mentioning them in the thread so I thought I'd ask.

A recent WD article (I think it was in the retro article. Can't remember the name) referenced the Adeptus Arbites and then coyly implied that if the GSC could come back, anything was possible.

Do you reckon the Gangs will be £20?

That's the price of a Bloodbowl team after all?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do you reckon the Gangs will be £20?

That's the price of a Bloodbowl team after all?

Nah I reckon they will be more. These are gonna be proper multi part lots aren't they? Or did they just mention the kits are compatible with other ranges? I imagine the price would show that.

My guess is that the gangs will be very similar to the GSC Neophyte Hybrids both in cost (£25) and design - two sprues building 8-12 models with a ton of options. I don't know how well those sold but I know they were very well received here.

The funniest part of the scale creep argument is that GW minis have never been scale models. 25mm, 28mm, 30mm, 32mm... aren't scales. 1/64th, 1:50, 1/48th are scales. Made the new gangs for Necro are taller because of a sudden change in gravity...or maybe the original ones are just short.

And talking about the new models, they are designed for one game and one game only--the NEW Necromunda. Can I play Rogue Trader with Primaris Marines, sure. Can I whine that Beakies make poor Primaris proxies, sure. Can I understand that Rogue Trader and 8th Edition are very different games despite both being called 40K, sure. Can I understand that the new game called Necromunda might not be the same as the old one, sure. Which brings me to...

I'm wondering if the new Necro is more of a board game with miniatures...out of the box. You know like Space Hulk board game. Then the expansion turns it back into something more like what old-timers might expect. It might make me a bad person, but if the core box is more board gamey, I might be more interested in it than as Necromunda 2.0 or SWA 1.5.

I hope the points for gangs is just their 8th ed points times some multiplier.

I think it is a board game that also comes with a miniatures game ruleset.

 Manchu wrote:
I think it is a board game that also comes with a miniatures game ruleset.

Really? I thought it only came with the miniature game rules and some 2D cardboard versions of Zone Mortalis Terrain for a quick start (though still using range rulers, etc..).

Similar to using 2D terrain on a table ..

Like those woods there ...



The way I understood it, you might even be able to put regular terrain onto the 2D terrain in the box if you don't mind the abstraction of mixing both 2D and 3D terrain.

Boxed set is tunnel fights. But Gang War supplement, like Blood Bowl Seasons.

On one hand, it means us old grognards will have to shell out extra.

On the other, it is a complete game in a box for the uninitiated, helping to keep their costs down. Me, I reckon that's a price worth paying for new blood and future opponents. YMMV of course, because this is just an opinion.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Boxed set is tunnel fights. But Gang War supplement, like Blood Bowl Seasons.

On one hand, it means us old grognards will have to shell out extra.

On the other, it is a complete game in a box for the uninitiated, helping to keep their costs down. Me, I reckon that's a price worth paying for new blood and future opponents. YMMV of course, because this is just an opinion.

Well, if you don’t want the tunnel game you can just get the book and a couple of gangs (or use existing ones if you have them) so existing players don’t necessarily have to pay more.

 insaniak wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Insaniak said the different scale wouldn't bother anyone. It would bother me, so his assumptions are most likely incorrect. That's about it.

Sure, my statement failed to take into account people wanting the miniatures for something other than Necromunda. Because, frankly, I doubt that use outside the intended game system is a particularly big factor in their design.

Actually...

Given that I fully intend to use the minis - if I get them - with other games that have not gone to GW's current RIDICULOUSLY LARGE(TM) scale...

I have to side with the folks that would prefer to have them in the older, smaller scale - but my (and others of my ilk) wanting to use them with *GASP!* other, non-GW games may well be part of why they have gone to their new scale.

That said - I really like the idea of having weapons that can be swapped out, and will be looking at the game anyway.

And, if the rules are good, and the minis suck... well, there are other companies that make miniatures that I like in a scale that I like. (Given that I intend to make a Neo-Victorian Van Saar gang anyway.... )

Still on the fence in regards to 'will the minis suck?' - I do not like what GW thinks is hair or fur these days. But, hey! If I go to Dulaque, I won't have to worry about the hair!

The Auld Grump